Cadet, please link the past threads for me.
Link to all threads
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=37017Today was a rough one. Talked with ww on the way home about the boys and getting counseling. Also updated her on some behavior issues (anger, lying) I was seeing so we can be consistent. Then she dropped another bomb on me. Said that in a week she'd be taking in a dog and unsure how long she would be watching it, but wanted me to know that the boys would be around it and allergies, etc. asked who she was watching it for. The om!
Which then led me to ask if she was planning to introduce om to our sons since he'll prob want to come by to "see his dog". She said she had been thinking about it and since he's a part of her life and she's been in a "relationship for a while" she wants them to know him.
I did not flip out or yell, I remained calm. I told her were not even divorced yet, the kids haven't had counseling or been able to process anything. She told me she wanted a divorce 2 months ago, I moved out 1 month ago, we told the kids about the divorce 2 weeks ago and now she wants to introduce them to her boyfriend?! Wtf!
I told her I understand she's Ina good place and been there awhile, but not everyone's there yet. She's so far ahead of everyone else. Take me out of the picture, we don't even know where the boys are and how they're handling things yet. We haven't even sold the house.
She is just wanting to move so fast. She said it's uncomfortable to talk about with me, I agreed and said the only reason why I was is because it involves the boys.
I have no control whether or when she introduces him, but told her my take and let her know when she wanted to talk about it again, I would listen, be calm and objective. She said she's not trying to hurt me, but wants to be open and knows she will want him to meet the boys, sooner rather than later.
This is all happening so fast for me.
Sorry Ripken, that's a very rough situation to be in. I wish they understand how their actions effected others around them. I think its amazing you remained calm while going though that conversation, I don't think I would have been able to. A sign you are stronger than you realize. Deep breaths, you can and will get through this like everything else that has been thrown at you.
The unfortunate thing is I know I'll be interact with ww tomorrow to pick up the boys and gather some more of my items from the house. Once OM brings his dog to stay, I will no longer want to step foot in the house, as it really feels like there's no part of it that's mine. I'm really not sure how to interact around her anymore. She's not the person I knew for 14 years and as recently as 6 months ago was excited about buying Xmas gifts for.
I've got a lot of GAL activities this weekend - games and movies with the boys tomorrow and working out, friend's bab-q and bday celebration SAT and taking the boys to watch the world cup in KC's Power & Light district with 18K other people. Should be a blast and looking forward to it.
However, getting nervous about the interaction tomorrow. It's such a catch 22 - I miss her and want interaction, but I miss the person she WAS, not IS. So, when I do interact it just hurts. I was finally coming to terms with using the time to work on me and time being a gift, but with how fast she's pushing to move things, I feel like I don't even have control on that gift.
However, getting nervous about the interaction tomorrow. It's such a catch 22 - I miss her and want interaction, but I miss the person she WAS, not IS. So, when I do interact it just hurts. I was finally coming to terms with using the time to work on me and time being a gift, but with how fast she's pushing to move things, I feel like I don't even have control on that gift.
You do have control over it still, it may just not appear so right now. Just show her the best Ripken possible. If she cant see your value as a person someone will. Right now keep giving her space and time and work on yourself, like you already know. Nothing you can control about her situation anyway, no point in stressing out about how fast she moves.
One point to make, A's thrive on the secrecy and are built on mistrust, they just don't survive the interactions of a real relationship. If shes wanting things to move faster with him who's to say it wont put pressure on the A. We all know the stats on A's and how often they work anyway.
No telling how things will end up, maybe her pushing things faster now ends up being the quickest route back to reconciliation, you never know. The future is full of possibility, just let it happen and control the parts of today that you can. Things are going to work out one way or another.
Thanks for the chime in, Fogg. I agree - I need to continue to be the best Ripken I can be and let the future happen as it will. Logic hasn't caught up with my heart - still.
"A's thrive on the secrecy and are built on mistrust, they just don't survive the interactions of a real relationship. If shes wanting things to move faster with him who's to say it wont put pressure on the A."
This I believe, but not necessarily in her case. Mindreading I know, but with her saying "he's a part of my life" and "I've been in a relationship for awhile" - I feel she is going to stick with OM until he drops her, if nothing else to justify WHY she's breaking up our family, marriage, etc. It has to be for something and her "relationship" is enough of a reason in her eyes.
Ripken, I feel your pain... BD here on May 2, and exactly two months later, I'm supposed to accept that I'm just her ex and the OW is her real partner now. Deal with the loss, move on, it's no big deal.
I also want some kind of control over this process. But as I'm looking back on the past eight weeks, I see that I've fared better - and she has been more conflicted and/or amicable - the more I have just allowed things to unfold.
It's so hard, I get it. But we have to trust the process.
It's so hard, I get it. But we have to trust the process.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hi Rip,
My heart truly goes out to you! DifRent summed it up perfectly.
I'll say a prayer for you right after this post.
Hang in there buddy.
Bob
I've read through this thread so many times. I've wanted to reply, but I truly have no words to help with the emotions I can only imagine you are dealing with.
Just know you aren't alone. We're all rooting for you, in whatever way your situation goes.
Thank you so much everyone. It does help to know you all are there.
My ww called me while I was gal to let me know she was getting the dog tonite and om would be dropping it off and being introduced to the boys as a friend. I reiterated why I was frustrated and felt it could hurt the boys since its been two weeks since we told them about divorce. Also I just registered them for therapy and asked that we wait until the therapist says it's a good idea and they can process it.
She said she understood where I was coming from but she had a different perspective. We talked for 30 minutes and I told her she could pick up the dog or meet him and take it. He doesn't have to be introduced. She says she puts the boys first but if there's a chance they could be impacted like now, she's still being selfish instead of waiting.
Now I'm concerned about the boys but also concerned about us. Not as husband and wife but as how can I interact with her while she disrespects me and doesn't value my opinion. There's no compromise, just her way. I thought we made progress Sunday.
Updated with ww when I went to pick up the boys. Told her why I was upset she still had om meet them. 2 reasons: felt it could hurt the boys and why take that chance before counseling and also felt she never took into account what I said when it comes to the two of them. We are going to make decisions on the two of them together and they'll be times where we disagree, but if there's no compromise or give and take, how can we make decisions together,
Her first reaction was anger and felt I was calling her a bad mom and went off saying she always has sacrificed and puts them first. I had to talk over her, not yelling, to telling her was being emotional, not listening to me and it wasn't productive. I told her she is the best mom I know and I wouldn't choose another mom for my two children. My issue is on how we communicate and I want that to improve. She agreed.
She then said she felt my problem with it was because of my personal feelings. I was honest, looked her in the eyes and told her that wasn't the case. When I look at her now I see someone I am not in love with and don't want to be with. I told her I'm all but moved on from her and the anger or hurt comes from the lying she did to my face and the disrespect. Pain I would feel toward any relationship I would have with someone, not because I want my wife back.
She stared in my eyes for a while, questioning it and then she realized I was telling the truth and I think it caught her a little by surprise.
I feel good about the interaction and told her my goal is for us to improve on communicating so we can me a little better each day as we work through each other's hurt. Maybe we can see what the other says and does at face value without automatically adding our own hurt to it.
When leaving we discussed the possibility of the two of us spending time together with both boys August 16 for our oldest birthday, since he'd really want that. We are both open to it. Hopefully time helps.
She stared in my eyes for a while, questioning it and then she realized I was telling the truth and I think it caught her a little by surprise.
Yep!
Thank you so much everyone. It does help to know you all are there.
My ww called me while I was gal to let me know she was getting the dog tonite and om would be dropping it off and being introduced to the boys as a friend. I reiterated why I was frustrated and felt it could hurt the boys since its been two weeks since we told them about divorce. Also I just registered them for therapy and asked that we wait until the therapist says it's a good idea and they can process it.
She said she understood where I was coming from but she had a different perspective. We talked for 30 minutes and I told her she could pick up the dog or meet him and take it. He doesn't have to be introduced. She says she puts the boys first but if there's a chance they could be impacted like now, she's still being selfish instead of waiting.
Now I'm concerned about the boys but also concerned about us. Not as husband and wife but as how can I interact with her while she disrespects me and doesn't value my opinion. There's no compromise, just her way. I thought we made progress Sunday.
Your wife is a wayward terrorist. There is no negotiating or compromising with a terrorist. They will just take advantage of you.
I'm concerned your children. Being introduced to the OM as though he is just a friend. He played a big part in the destruction of THEIR family. OM is not their friend and is not to be trusted.
I feel it is a disservice not to arm your children with the truth about their lives and allow and trust them to function within the truth as they see fit. They don't need all the juicy details but they should be aware of something like "one of several reasons that your mother and I are divorcing has to do with her inappropriate relationship with [full first and last name of OM]. You do understand that it's not appropriate for married people to date other people, right? Well I learned your mother was dating OM and, even though I was incredibly hurt I remained willing to try to save our marriage. Your mother and OM choose not to end their relationship so because of that and other private things between your mother and I we are where we are. I am not telling you this to motivate you to hate and I certainly don't want you disrespecting your mother or any other adult; however, I tell you this because I think it's important to be honest with you because this is your life too and you deserve the truth about what's going on around you here."
If you aren't sure then google information about telling children the truth. They need to truth to protect themselves. It's very inappropriate for you soon to be ex-wife to be sneaking a cobra into the home under the premise that he's her new supportive friend. I know you likely feel pressure to be kind. That being nice is the best way out or through this situation to a place where you and your STBXW can co-parent in ex-spouse harmony; but that's not going to happen unless she respects you. Keeping her secrets only enables more secrets. Be the parent where your children will seek and know truth. God knows, they aren't going to be getting it from their FORMERLY awesome mother.
She then said she felt my problem with it was because of my personal feelings. I was honest, looked her in the eyes and told her that wasn't the case. When I look at her now I see someone I am not in love with and don't want to be with. I told her I'm all but moved on from her and the anger or hurt comes from the lying she did to my face and the disrespect. Pain I would feel toward any relationship I would have with someone, not because I want my wife back.
Hi Rip,
Wow, how powerful and well-played. Good for you! I have read your entire post a few times and the part I quoted above 5 or 6 times. Thank you for sharing. Someday, I may want to use this, or something very similar with my WAW. She, too, has told so many lies to my face, even before she filed for D.
I think you really caught her by surprise. Interesting...
Hang in there, mister. You have this!
Bob
I'm concerned your children. Being introduced to the OM as though he is just a friend. He played a big part in the destruction of THEIR family. OM is not their friend and is not to be trusted.
I agree with GB 100%. Telling the children that OM is "just a friend" is perpetuating a lie that your WW started a long time ago.
However, I don't think it is your job to clarify things with your kids. It is not healthy to talk about your WW or her behavior to your children. They need a mother and they need to see her in the most positive light, even if you know otherwise. They will find out on their own when they are old enough to figure it out. It is in the same spirit of letting your WW make her own mistakes. It is her lie to tell, and she has chosen to tell it. I think it is sickening that a WW can lie to their children as effortlessly as they lie to the LBS. But, it is beyond our control.
I was thinking about putting a "boyfriend clause" in the divorce - stating that any new beau in a parents life must be kept from the children for 6 months. This would apply to me equally. It would be in place to protect the kids. Have you thought about this?
Rip, I feel your pain because I am going through it too. I am surprised how mild-mannered you seem about it. Amazing how you can tell her that she is a great mother. I could never bring myself to say this. I think my resentment-meter is stuck on high. Kudos to you.
RAI
Rip,
I meant to add in my post that I agreed with GB. I came back and see our friend RAI also agrees and had some good suggestions.
As RAI said, "Kudos to you."
Bob
P.S. I may be wrong, but I think raliced was very ticked off at her WH when he promised her he would not introduce OW to kids and proceeded to do so the next day. It does not seem like there is anything a LBS can do.
RAI
I'm concerned your children. Being introduced to the OM as though he is just a friend. He played a big part in the destruction of THEIR family. OM is not their friend and is not to be trusted.
I feel it is a disservice not to arm your children with the truth about their lives and allow and trust them to function within the truth as they see fit. They don't need all the juicy details but they should be aware of something like "one of several reasons that your mother and I are divorcing has to do with her inappropriate relationship with [full first and last name of OM]. You do understand that it's not appropriate for married people to date other people, right? Well I learned your mother was dating OM and, even though I was incredibly hurt I remained willing to try to save our marriage. Your mother and OM choose not to end their relationship so because of that and other private things between your mother and I we are where we are. I am not telling you this to motivate you to hate and I certainly don't want you disrespecting your mother or any other adult; however, I tell you this because I think it's important to be honest with you because this is your life too and you deserve the truth about what's going on around you here."
I agree with this wholeheartedly. As the son of a wayward mother, I can tell you that I was and am very disappointed in my father for not telling me the truth. I'm not angry at him, and I don't hate him, but I am disappointed (I do not have a relationship with my mother anymore, because she is still wayward). Your children will be disappointed, too, if you do not tell them. Your WW is lying to them, and by remaining silent, you are complicit in the lie. It is not fair for your children not to know the truth of what's going on.
Wow!
wmwb, you obviously have more insight into this than I do. How old were you when you found out?
I never thought about it, but I suppose by omitting details I am complicit.
Definitely something to think about.
Rip, you have a tough choice to make.
RAI
Like it or not your children are learning lesson about life as your wife continues her affair, lessons that, I presume, you don't want them to learn.
Here's 3 such lessons:
1. How [NOT] to deal with emotional pain.
Children whose parents are experiencing marital strife are riddled with guilt, confusion, sadness, loneliness, sadness, fear, worry, abandonment, and many other hopeless feelings. When a child is losing the security of their parent's marriage they are in pain.
So what is such child supposed to do? How are they going to gain control in an uncontrollable situation? Out of the need to cope with these uncomfortable feelings derives a new rule about life, to wit, if a problem arises it is better to deny that there is a problem than to face it and feel the pain.
So your kids THINK: "I'm hurting but everyone around me is going to such lengths pretending it's all going to be OK so I better pretend too. Maybe this is how married people live. Nothing is really wrong about this situation. There really isn't a problem here. Just look the other way."
Your children learn to defend themselves from emotional pain by using the tried and true [unhealthy] defenses of denial and justification. Later in life, when your children face crucial problems instead of facing and solving those problems, they would deny their very existence and look the other way as it would grow and eventually overwhelm them
2. How to lie.
In order to maintain a secret second life, your wife needs to keep up the deceit. Your wife will soon be telling your sons not to talk to dad about OM. Your wife will explain to them that it is better that dad just doesn't know "because we don't want to make him upset." Your kids may recall how upset you were at mom for the divorce and decide not upsetting you is worth lying about. So with this newly learned habit of lying for mom, came a second rule about life, lying is allowed if it spares another from pain or spares yourself from punishment. They will also learn that lying is also allowed when it protects your privacy. Your wayward wife is likely already teaching them that everyone has a right to privacy in their life, even if it involves hurting people behind their back. Your kids will be told over and over by wayward mom that it is not dad's business to know what mom does. This was meant to justify the fact that mom was lying to dad. Although your wife was probably very honest and open person before the affair, she has now become quite an expert at deceit and privacy. Your kids are soaking in this model every step of the way.
3. How to be thoughtless.
Your wife is teaching your kids that doing what you please regardless of how it affects other people is an essential ingredient to "being happy". Your kids will learn how to take advantage of her friends and family when there was something in it for them. They will learn how to disregard others' suffering because they have a right to enjoy life to the fullest. All wayward spouses hurt the people they care about the most. Wayward spouses rationalize that they had to look out for themselves, take time for MEEEEEE, which is why they developed the relationship outside of their marriage in the first place. Their actions seem to benefit themselves in the short term, but it has disastrous effects on members of their family.
As the only truly responsible parent remaining, YOU have a responsibility to teach your children the importance of honesty and the importance of thoughtfulness. That YOU and THEY need to consider other people's feeling when decisions are being made. To do otherwise and perpetuate/enable lies and deceit is not only terribly irresponsible, but may tend to perpetuate the learning of these rules of deceit and thoughtlessness for generations to come.
This is NOT beyond your control or areas of influence. If your wife is not going to step up, own her mistakes, turn from her sin and make amends, you are going to have to explain and teach this stuff to your kids yourself because you are the only one that can. As long as your wife/stbxw remains on this path, she isn't a good mother anymore....so you're going to have to be twice the father you ever expected to be.
There is sensitivities surely to how to go about addressing these things but you can do it without technically "alienating" your wife and your children's mother. You should research this yourself and figure out the best way to do it. You will probably need to AFTERWARDS (PLEASE do NOT make the mistake of trying to discuss this with your terrorist wayward wife/stbxw...she's NOT co-parenting with you because she's not parenting at all right now...introducing OM to the children as a friend is NOT parenting), discuss what you said precisely with your wife/stbxw. The reason for this is simple. She's lying to your children and you aren't going to sit by and enable such. She needs to be aware of that fact so HOPEFULLY she will apologize to them and STOP lying. Regardless, she'll know that you aren't going to let her spin this story however she wants while you sit idly by. Yes...she'll be furious but you can co-parent after furious whereas when YOU compromise your integrity and start lying to your boys too, neither of you can co-parent at all.
Another thing I discussed recently on another thread. Children are narcissists. They think everything revolves around them. If your sons don't know about OM at all, they should because it's quite likely, despite your assurances, that they believe they had something to do with the divorce. Two young boys and their energy likely drove their mother a bit nuts at times, especially while she was conducting her affair and trying to live an alternate life of awesome fantasy waywardness behind everyone's back. Your boys likely FEEL their misbehavior had something to do with it. They NEED the truth so they stop blaming themselves and then they can put the blame wherever the truth leads them. Alienation rules and laws in no way require you to lie on behalf of your spouse/stbxw. How your boys FEEL and REACT regarding the truth is a consequence of adultery...NOT being honest.
Wow!
wmwb, you obviously have more insight into this than I do. How old were you when you found out?
I never thought about it, but I suppose by omitting details I am complicit.
Definitely something to think about.
Rip, you have a tough choice to make.
RAI
RAI, I was 7 when they divorced, but a teenager when I figured it out. Her POSOM physically abused my brother and I.
Rip,
You are in my thoughts tonight. I can only begin to imagine the range of emotions you are feeling right now. It's tough enough just to keep our own heads above water. We have the duty to protect the innocent too. Unfortunately, I'm just not sure the best way to navigate this sensitive issue.
I might also add that my brother and I never told our father that we were being abused, precisely because of the dynamic that GB describes.
Guys, thanks for all the support and advice. While I do agree in general, I'm not sure all the advice fits my situation. Also, as everyone knows, what ever action I take or don't, I am the one who deals with the consequences.
That being said, I have no intention of lying to my sons. The haven't mentioned his name once to me or even said mommy had someone over. That's good enough for now. If they do ask, I won't lie, I'll be honest with them, without going into all the details.
Also I asked ww to hold of on further meetings with om and our sons until the meet with ic beginning of August. I want to see what's going on with them and what ic would recommend. I don't want to have them subjected to anything more that could hurt them.
Now if I take gb recommendation today, not only am I doing just that, but also doing the exact opposite of what I asked my ww to do.
This is about looking at progress. One week ago we ignored each other, avoided each other, had animosity and felt the other was constantly out to get us. Since then, we do communicate. It's still very much a work in progress, but it will prob have to be. The thing is she is trying and even agreed on some things - payments, getting boys in conseling, etc.
If I made a William Wallace charging on the battlefield stance now, she will get defensive and the door to communicate really may never open again. I'm sure you hear this a lot, but this is really who she is. She was already starting to get that way when we spoke yesterday and then she calmed down and apologized- different and a good different.
I am not naive nor will I be. But I also have to evaluate what's best for my situation and right now it's continuing to communicate on decisions with the boys with ww, be an awesome dad for them, talk with the ic and if they bring anything up to be, be honest about it.
So I hesitate to even say this. I worry a lot about scum bags in this world. Is there s way to have some kind of background check type of scenario for anyone your children's mother decides to have around your children... used in any sort of agreement. You won't and can't tell her who she can see. You can perhaps help open her eyes to possibility of problem people. Idk...just spit balling. / brainstorming.
I have a lifelong friend who recently just started dating a new woman. He has since moved into her house after maybe 6 weeks. Now I love this man as a brother and trust him with my life, but this woman just met him and can't possible have a handle on 'who he really is'. This woman has two teenage girls. I am floored by that situation and I know the man and don't know the family AT ALL.
Zephyr, there may be but not sure what good it does. Just because someone has a clean background doesn't mean they're good to have a round my children and just because someone has a mistimed or for weed 5 years ago doesn't mean they're bad.
If I propose or enforce something like that, my ww will fire back harder with something restrictive on me. We are still going through divorce proceedings and one of my goals is to try and have it be the least amount of messy as possible. For my financial future and for my boys.
And even if it was put in, I'd assume if she really wanted om or whomever around, it'd be hard to stop her, she does what she wants. To my knowledge while om is a horrible person, I'm not sure he's a criminal threat.
Rip,
Any GAL plans for tonight? Ever get caught up on True Detective?
De facto - I have the boys this weekend and after seeing ww Friday the weekend has flown by and been a blast. Boys and I hung out with friends and went swimming Friday. Yesterday we watch the hot dog eating contest at bww. Then went to a bbq, birthday party with tons of friends and yard games. Today we went to see the new terminator movie and tonite were about to head out to watch the World Cup.
Tomorrow will be my true detective day. I need to start planning some more gal activities for the weekend though. 2 of the next 3 weekends I have no plans and very unsure what to do. It makes me kind of anxious. Having plans and things to look forward to has helped. When I don't have something that's when the loneliness sets in.
Georgia Bulldogs,
Thank you for that information. I have been struggling with telling to the truth to my 7 year old daughter. I hate to tell her that her mother is having an affair and has chosen another man over daddy. I will have to think of a very sensitive way to break the news without demeaning their mother. Your post helps me to see the reasons why it may be important to let her know what is going on. The short term may be hard but in the long run it may be better. I am going to talk to my therapist about this as well.
Roger that. I thought they were all POS.
RAI
Updates: after everything that's been going on, I decided to have a weekend largely to myself. Work out, do errands, go to Buddhist temple, watch movies, cook. Enjoy being by myself. Interestingly enough, it was nice. Right now, I'm not scared of being alone anymore, I'm starting to embrace it. Also, I'm forcing myself to get to know more people and increase my social circle.
I did get invited to a pool party yesterday with a live band and open bar. It was a great time. I felt confident, as I'm in the best shape of my life. My friend that invited me couldn't stop commenting about how great I looked, it felt good.
Finally I spoke with ww today, she called me because oldest son wasn't feeling well, he's better now. She talked about him, then went on to say she has a box of my things to pick up and how she's exhausted due to work and trying to get the house ready to sell, so all she wants to do is sleep. I just listened and validated where I could.
The thing is, that conversation didn't trigger me like it normally would have. I was glad she called about our son and I got to speak to both boys, that was nice. But normally convos about signs of her moving on, house for sale, pick up my things, etc would leave me in a bad place. I'm actually good.
Not sure if this is what it feels like to have the rope dropped, if I'm moving on or both. But, I like me. I'm a fun guy and I'm enjoying showing that to people and being around others who appreciate it.
Rip,
This is an awesome post. I've noticed you aren't posting as much these days and I count that as a good thing. It's good to know that you feel great inside and out!
Defacto - Thanks. Yeah, I haven't been posting as much because I guess I'm surviving. I really am trying to do a lot of self work and exploration. I realize that I've taken ww's actions and the death of our M so personally because of what I felt it said about me. That someone that I respected, loved and trusted for 14 years would lie and cheat on me, because that's what I deserved. Because she never loved me and I wasn't worthy of it. That my marriage and family was over because I failed and I wasn't good enough.
Those parts effect me more than her. They are the core of just about all of my actions and past "errors". Social drinking to boost up esteem or confidence. Pursuing her because of the same reasons. Needing sex/physical connection because I sensed distance. Fear of being alone.
While I do force myself to go out and meet new people, so it's not as awkward, I also work to spend time alone in my thoughts, meditating, working out, just learning to enjoy it. Neither one of these two things are in my comfort zone, but they are starting to be. I'm no longer scared.
As far as ww, it's allowed me to communicate with her on the boys and even have chit chat about lighter things. Yesterday was my birthday and she was one of the first people to wish me a happy birthday, even taking my boys out to pick out a gift for me. Had zero expectations, so that was nice. However, it doesn't mean the world to me either. I no longer (at least right now) live and die by what she does or doesn't do.
I'm finally allowing myself to go through a transformation for the better and just concentrate on me. I'm not sure I'm doing anything different than what's been discussed or what others have advised of me. However, over the last 1-2 weeks, a light finally came on (AHA! moment) and I now feel like I can do them, without thinking. It's starting to be like breathing now.
Sounds great ! Proud of you friend!
Happy belated birthday, Ripken! I am also proud of you. I love that you are able to spend time alone in your thoughts.
Defacto - Thanks. Yeah, I haven't been posting as much because I guess I'm surviving. I really am trying to do a lot of self work and exploration. I realize that I've taken ww's actions and the death of our M so personally because of what I felt it said about me. That someone that I respected, loved and trusted for 14 years would lie and cheat on me, because that's what I deserved. Because she never loved me and I wasn't worthy of it. That my marriage and family was over because I failed and I wasn't good enough.
Hey Rip, Is this how you feel still or is this what you felt when this all began?
You did not deserve this before and you still don't. It was certainly a wake up call that you've answewd and are making changes towards being a better man.
Happy belated birthday, Ripken! I'm thinking about you, buddy.
Bob
Thanks everyone - Zephyr - I don't really STILL feel like that. There's time when I have moments, but they are fleeting.
I realized those were things I need to continue to work on and get past for me. That way whether ww (which I don't know is possible due to her needing to work through things and what I know I deserve) or anybody else, I will be in a good place.
How r you doing today rip?
Hey bud, hope you had a good weekend???
Zues,
Thanks for checking in. Sorry I've been AWOL. I have been keeping to myself and GAL at the same time. I've taken my workouts to new levels and joined a cross-fit gym. There, I've made some new friends and they are a pretty tight knit group, so that's been nice. Also I've been doing softball and a regular meetup group, in addition to going to Buddhist temple every Sunday.
I do try and spend some nights and times alone, so I can get used to it and be ok with it. I'm not as lonely anymore and don't find myself constantly craving for my wife. I really believe in the immediate future, that ship has sailed. What that means years down the road, who knows? But, the more I get to appreciate myself, the sooner I'll feel ready for a relationship with anyone. Right now, I just enjoy getting to know new people and making new friends.
Also communication with ww has been greatly improved. We talk on the phone 2-3 times a week for 10-15 minutes always about the boys, selling the house, that stuff. However, it's always been cordial and helpful. Last night, I even joked a little and got a laugh from her. Wasn't trying, just was organic and hung up thinking maybe we will be able to enjoy each other's company in time - nothing romantic, just even as friends. Still have no idea if that's possible for me, but was the first second since all this happened that it crossed my mind.
This morning though has been a HUGE test. She asked me last night if I could make a key for the boys so she could sleep in this morning and pick them up later. Told her it wasn't in my plans and was doing other things with them. She said it wasn't a problem and she would just see them in the morning. Was a good convo.
She then called twice at 5AM and sent 2 texts - I didn't see these until I was just about there. I called her and she said "we'll you can drop them off I guess, but there'll be another car there. That's why I was trying to call you." Yeah, OM is/was there. Told her I was turning around and no way in hell were they going to be subject to that. She said she understood. Told her what she does on her time is her business, but now is her time with the boys. Instead of calling me at 5AM, she could have kicked his ass out. She said, "yeah, I guess that was an option."
This is her weekend with the boys and today is ALSO her birthday! Ugh. I spoke with her after and told her WHY I was so upset. Not about her and him, but about how it would impact the boys and how turning back around was an inconvenience to say the least. Don't; call me a 5AM the next day after we had a convo the day before and agreed to this. She apologized and said she understood. I told her that while SHE feels her and OM are great and will be together forever, I just moved out 2 months ago and the boys just learned of the divorce 1 month ago. If they walked in on him being there, it's NO different to them than if they walked in on me with some random chick. WW said she understood that too.
Ugh. Still proud of myself for having PMA throughout this.
and I meant Zephyr, not Zeus - wrong Z name. My apologies : )
Rip,
I was just wondering how you were doing. I am proud of you for keeping a PMA through all this chit. I like to think I am well on my way to detachment but I'm pretty sure I would have lost it if my STBX did what yours did.
Btw-your GAL list is awesome!
and I meant Zephyr, not Zeus - wrong Z name. My apologies : )
As long as you don't call me 'Al' I am ok
Or 'Zipper' for that matter, I don't like that one.
As for how you're doing. Great Work. you are further along than I would be in your situation!!! I like that you are embracing YOU. It is terrible that we are here...with that said you are a better man for it. Chin UP and keep going!!!
Wow Rip!
I dont think I could have handled that as well as you did. It still amazes me how a WW can be so lost and inconsiderate to her own kids, let alone her LBH. Good for you for holding a PMA through this.
Detatching for me has really started to be easier, just due to the chaos and fatigue of it all taking its toll. I enjoy my GAL activities as well as the days WW just isn't involved in.
Keep it up Brother! Thanks for inspiring!
Thanks, guys. Met with ww over lunch to have her pick up the kids. She put the boys in the car and stopped to talk to me. Immediately she said "I'm sorry and thank you". She apologized and said that she was in the wrong and would work to communicate more and not change plans at the last second. She said she understands that wasn't fair.
While she didn't get into the aspect of what the boys would see, she did make it a point to apologize and own part of her mess up. She could have easily said screw it, stayed pissed at me and blame me for ruining her birthday if she wanted to - she didn't. That's at least something.
She said we'll have our share of ups and downs. I told her I know that, but my hope is we can continue to communicate as we have and for the most part, have them be positive interactions. She said she wanted that too.
Again, for me right now, it's not missing her or in love with her. It's still the trigger or mistrust, disrespect and cheating - the same as I would have for any relationship. Hopefully that heals over time as well.
Well ww never listened to me about not having om around our sons and did it frequently anyway without telling me. Found out tonite our youngest saw them kissing this weekend and asked me about it because she only introduced him as her friend.
I told my sons the truth and that I wouldn't lie to them. Told them her is her boyfriend and that she started seeing him while we were married and that was wrong. I told them that is one of the biggest reasons why we won't be married anymore and that you don't do that to someone you care about. Lying and cheating is wrong.
That said I told them that was something between mommy and I and I wouldn't talk bad about her to them because she is still a great mom to them and loves them and we both can agree on that.
Bashing her and blaming her in front of them serves no purpose. I only see it backfiring on me.
I called ww and let her know of the convo and that I hated the fact that I felt pushed into a corner. Told her I was disappointed she didn't seem to care of my concerns and continued to do what she wanted, regardless of what could happen.
Unfortunately this has reached so far that if there was ever a chance to reconcile, I would be crazy to consider it. I have made so much progress and continue to be a better person than I ever was when we were together. I can't and won't go back to that and she only continues to regress, thinking she is actually moving forward.
I'm surprisingly not as hurt by all of this and feel ready to move on and leave her behind. The wife I loved is dead and I'm just about done mourning the loss.
What's left is a cold person I have nothing in common with and little to no interest to get to know.
Sad to hear that Rip. I just went through a very similar thing this past weekend as well. I feel your pain and disappointment.
Hang in there buddy.
Rip,
I'm so sorry you were forced to do this. I feel you handled it perfectly. You really had no other options IMO.
You have progressed and matured tremendously. I see a man who had taken control of his life and his future. Your journey towards personhood and individuality is one I am on too but I think you are a bit farther along than I.
Here is a quote that haunts me lately. I think you might appreciate it to:
"The world is what it is; men who are nothing, who allow themselves to become nothing, have no place in it."
-V.S. Naipaul
Sorry to hear this Rip. It is hard with the kids. I feel your pain. Man you have come very far on your journey. You have done well for yourself and are handling things so well. Your kids will see the example that you are to them. Teaching your kids that lying and cheating is wrong is what we need to be doing as parents. WW is not teaching that by her actions. Your kids are seeing that for themselves. I am in the same position as you. I also am done mourning the loss. I could care less what my STBXW does now. I am just concerned for my kids and their well being right now. Keep up the good DBing!! You got this!!
Rip,
Just thinking about you, brother. How are you holding up?
Rip? Are you ok? Just checking in.
RAI
Hey Rip,
I saw you posted to Defacto's thread a few days ago. Looks like you are doing well in the detachment department. Just saying hi.
RAI