Old thread here
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2580417#Post2580417I have text H but no answer. I will cook anyway for DS and I. DS complained yesterday we didn't have family dinners very much anymore. Eating round the table was a big deal for us.
Smothy,
A word to the wise about telling the kids about D is to be sure that both you and H are in the room together. A lot of the times the WAS blames the D on "growing apart" chit. I think it is important to emphasize that both Mom and Dad love son while you can tell S truthfully that you prefer to stay married and you really do not want a D.
Be authentic if and when that time ever comes around. But as H stated that he did not want to to this over the summer, you have plenty of time to DB your sweet butt off.
Oh and don't buy into H's chit that you are "abusive" to him. His worldview is very skewed lately.
DS had to phone H to see if he was coming for dinner in the end. H was at the pub with friends and said he never got any of my texts.
H did come back to the house straight away. I said is isn't feel he had to if he was out with his friends, H said he did as DS sounded as though he really wanted us to have dinner.
Had lunch, more chit chat in the garden. Watched television. said goodnight, I went into the kitchen and it felt that H could not get out of the kitchen fast enough. No word and went straight upstairs.
Had DB coach session today and it was suggested that I should iniated some contact as it seems H does want to be near me but blowing hot and cold.
Also, as H is receptive to me writing to him I should write him a letter. I will try and lend this in the next few days, any suggestions welcome.
Feeling so much better today, a little anxious when H didn't return any texts but managed to work through that. More GAL tomorrow. Meeting up with friends I haven't seen since Christmas. Quite fortunate due to me being away my social life is bit hectic now that I am back :-)
Smothy,
A word to the wise about telling the kids about D is to be sure that both you and H are in the room together. A lot of the times the WAS blames the D on "growing apart" chit. I think it is important to emphasize that both Mom and Dad love son while you can tell S truthfully that you prefer to stay married and you really do not want a D.
Be authentic if and when that time ever comes around. But as H stated that he did not want to to this over the summer, you have plenty of time to DB your sweet butt off.
Oh and don't buy into H's chit that you are "abusive" to him. His worldview is very skewed lately.
I definitely want to be there, Wonka. I was feeling a little bit optimistic when H said that as it was the evening he said he hated me and would file once the 6 weeks is over. The date for that is end of July. H has not approached me about the Financial order which must be sent to court before anyone applies for the Decree Absolute.
Do I broach the subject of telling DS as together? This will have to be done before I leave on 14th Aug.
Smothy,
Do not raise the subject to H. Let him do the reaching out if he wants to talk about it with DS. A lot of the times, the WASes throw out the D word when they get angry, antsy, or frustrated. Pay no heed to all that silly blather.
Letter? What are you thinking here? What do you mean by that?
I trust that you've read up on some of Train's threads. Do you get the general idea here? Do you understand what Starsky and I talked about in those threads?
Smothy,
Letter? What are you thinking here? What do you mean by that?
I trust that you've read up on some of Train's threads. Do you get the general idea here? Do you understand what Starsky and I talked about in those threads?
Spoke to DB coach and she feels a letter may help as she feels H does not think I have acknowledge and validate his pain with my Behaviour re OM. Not to say I want the M back.
I reiterated the conversation I had with H on Weds and there seems to be some vulnerability from H and that he feels there is no hope. The letter may offer a glimmer of hope for him. H behaviours suggest this as he is warm and cold.
H has iniated all physical contact so far so some subtle iniations from me as she said, put my 'toe in the water' and see what happens.
A letter would help him to see I connect with his pain. Does this make sense?
Re trains thread, I need to be validating and mysterious. Not to think about R, to attract H back. I find this difficult as it seems the more mysterious I am the more he pulls back.
It's hard to not think about OW when H goes to bed so early and then I can hear the texts/ messages come through until 2-3am in the morning. (I am in the room next door).
Also then to STFU when he complains how tired he is. Today, I found out he told all his family about our Divorce the day before our anniversary. That stings! Especially, we agreed neither of us would say anything until I was back in the UK. We agreed we would tell DS first!
I'm sorry Smothy
. This really sux doesn't it. I've been down for the lsat few days. Not outwardly, so I guess it isn't really that bad. I know it isn't as bad as it was a few months ago. Have had the sickness that I felt back then, just in flashes, so I know where it is coming from, I just want it to go away.
Waiting for her letter has brought it all back. I could seriously end up with nothing. At the end of all this she will be coming out roses. Yeah I know all that stuff about she is hurting too, yardy yarda. She complained to me the other day about the stress she has gone through. She had mouth ulcers poor baby. I had freakin surgery and lost my hearing. She is [censored] her boyfriend while I am crying.
OK - maybe she did suffer, a great deal, but so did I. Again she was unhappy, I was suicidal at one point. She took a an option that I didn't have. So maybe I am just pissed that she got out before me. But that is not it. I know that is not it. I chose to stay in the M hoping that we could work it out. Long before she would even admit that there was a problem.
Then when she realised that there really was a problem, she found a solution. This in itself is forgivable. She continues to make a mockery of me and our entire marriage. She is going to set up house with this guy in the coming months and if court goes her way, he will be their 24/7 "daddy".
I draw the line at her, and whatever her actions are I wave them, but they are affecting my life through my girls, and it get s really hard to deflect sometimes. Especially when they are persistent. This will be over - i'm just venting.
You are still in their with what seems like a fighting chance. Be strong Smothy. Give it your best. It will be easier to live with yourself afterwards, whatever happens. ahhhhh - afterwards - when will that be exactly? I know where WRT the M, but when will I feel free.
Better go - two sick girls that keep waking up when they are asleep and grizzling when they r e awake. No doubt adding to my stress levels ATM. Going to try to meditate for 15 minutes before I crash from exhaustion. Being a single parent has its moments.
Thank you for your words of encouragement, Py. Sorry this sux for you too.
More bizarre Behaviour from H today. Came back from GAL, with PMA and lightly touched H legs, he was lying on the sofa to say hi. Went into the garden with a glass of wine.
Came back watched a bit of television then H switches it to Top Gear in Vietnam he explains because we were there last year that's why he wanted to watch it! ?????
That was our 20th Anniversay holiday where we had a celebration at Ha Long bay where the presenters were. I know major mind reading but I would of kept clear of anything that related to us. Called me Darling again, and said good night Smothy, in a pleasant manner. Coincidence??
Don't know if I said, the night before I recieved a phone call from a friend and we were chatting and giggling for nearly an hour. Did not let on whom it was.
Smothy,
I have respect for DB Coaches; however, I don't always agree with some of their recommendations. I am not too sure about writing a letter to H. I think the timing is a bit off so I'd put it on the back burner for a while.
Just continue doing what's actually working: light, breezy, PMA.
Hi Smothy,
in the letter you are intending on writing - is there anything new to tell him that you haven't before. Or you just think you can make it more clear this time. Either way I am guilty of this. But whether it was new or just clarified - she doesn't hear it, well absolutely NOT the way it was intended anyway.
i agree with Wonka. I think dragging this back to R talk is not going to achieve what you want to achieve by telling him anything. It might even hurt your chances. You can't easily go back to light and breezy, but you can letter him anytime.
-Py
The letter was more to acknowledge his pain and hurt which I may not of made clear to him. It was suggested I can ponder of this and not necessary send it straight away, I am in two minds about it.
You are right, giving him something like this could make things more awkward. However, it could be the 'push'. We are getting on ok, just small general chit chat. We never ask about each other whereabouts etc. it seems he is following Sandis rules too LOL
H has backed off with the affection/ touch big time.
when in doubt Smoth. Hold on to it. go through a few cycles and if it feels right....
no expectations hey. Good or bad. Just play your cards. Dont show your hand first. How are you going with Train's threads. Haven't read them myself.
not surprised he has backed off. didn't real seem sustainable and keep up D etc
journaling things that has happened in the last few days.
I have read Train's thread and trying my best with the PMA being mysterious.
Thursday: H is being civil and friendly, invited me to watch a film with him (at home) tried to lightly touch him a few times (as suggested by DB coach). H did not seem to notice and did not respond. H fell asleep on sofa and I went up to bed after stroking his hair a few times, I kissed him on the forehead and left him.
I have such a draw to him that I want to touch him all the time.
Friday: I came back from GAL and H was very upbeat asked me how was my day etc. WE shared several bottles of wine throughout the evening H went to the loo or had something to do/ get every time his phone/ vibrated beeped. Kept touching this in his pocket, never lets this out of his sight. When does it stop hurting every time he recieves a text, from the OW? reminds me of his EA every time this happens. This carried on until 1pm.
H said he would cook Sunday lunch for us as I joked he said he was going to cook Friday. but told him I wasn't going to be back as I am staying overnight for a concert tonight. H asked several times if I was going on my own. reminded him, he didn't wanted to go, said no and left it at that. Said he will cook on Sunday evening.
H started the wood burner outside and had a pleasant evening burning wood, general chit chat and sometimes silence. Called me 'Darling' a few times and topped up wine, asking if I was ok etc. so hard to not to read into these small interactions. No touching, though. kept up with PMA and spoke to him like a friendly neighbour. H shared with me his plans for the weekend?
I don't even know if me being friendly etc is making him feel better about his choice for us to D. I know that being cold and distant withdraws H even more! I am trying to have no expectations and keeping this in the back of my mind. is this too friendly? Too much?
I don't even know if me being friendly etc is making him feel better about his choice for us to D. I know that being cold and distant withdraws H even more! I am trying to have no expectations and keeping this in the back of my mind. is this too friendly? Too much?
I bow to greater wisdom of "what works" rather than what seems intuitive. But this IS my concern. I know with my W she is gone no matter what. My being "light and breezy" just clears her conscience. Not that seems to have one anyway.
Take care Smothy.
how are you going Smothy dear. No news is good news?
Feeling a bit lost to be honest. Not sure what I should be doing. read Trains thread and it seems GAL is making H more distant and peeved off.
Out tonight with friends tonight came back and H commented I looked like nice but v distant. Tried DB coach approach. I need to give this more time. Feeling like the a few months back and the rejection is making me anxious. Thought I was pass that. Feel like I did a few months back :-(
Feeling a bit lost to be honest. Not sure what I should be doing. read Trains thread and it seems GAL is making H more distant and peeved off.
Smoth, a snippet from a post on my thread where I mentioned you is below.
This is where I diverted yet again. Yes – I don’t think she is aware of manipulating our life together so that she lived the good life with everything taken care of. She honestly believed that I was controlling. An example for Smothy to consider – W honestly believed that my efficient stacking of the dishwasher and criticising her efforts were controlling. And in a sense it was. But who watched TV, and who did the dishes? ?Quo Bono? This was the same with everything.
Have you told your family yet? I
really think you should. You should have a long time ago. I dont care what agreement with H was. This is about your support network. He is not in a deal making position.
Out tonight with friends tonight came back and H commented I looked like nice but v distant. Tried DB coach approach. I need to give this more time. Feeling like the a few months back and the rejection is making me anxious. Thought I was pass that. Feel like I did a few months back :-(
Not surprised you are feeling like this. You have headed straight back into the jungle. Fake it till you make it - well its time for you to make it Smoth. Time for you to appreciate all the things you think you are using as tools to win back H as real. They are real. You really do have friends and a social life and look good when you go out and are compassionate and loving and doing everything you can to save your M (which is highly commendable- at your own expense i hasten to add).
On my thread I have posted about the last "few" days where I have realised that I have been Mr Nice Guy. So I started reading NMMNG. I am 1/2 way through - so it may change tracks, but overall I don't like it. There are some really good points that have been worth it but the writer makes this a gender thing which I think is crap. The 1st few chapters carry on about the upbringing of men suffering from the past 50 years of female emancipation, or at least role changes.
Then everythiing he goes on to describe about the "NG syndrome", their psyche, their flawed reasonnig due to unhealthy core beliefs etc - and most of that is valid. BUT I fail to see how it has anything to do with gender or female dominance of male upbringing. Anyway, I think you could probably relate to a lot in there as well.
It's impossible to say there is any one "characteriztion" that fits US. It is like reading horoscopes. You could pick any sign at random, read your daily horoscope and it fits. Of course they are deliberately designed to be s vague as possible to convey this but I hope you get my point. No wonder psychologists etc are prone to craziness.
Hi Py, I haven't spoken to my family yet. Part of me doesn't as I don't want to deal with that at the moment. I know my family will blame me as they have told H numerous times during our M why does H put up with my Behaviour. My mum has seen my H as the perfect H.
I do have a good support system in the UK from the handful of people who knows, also my friends abroad keeps me on track.
I have downloaded NMMNG and actually read this. I can see a lot of both our dis functional behaviour in this.
I really want to broach the subject of telling DS with H as he should know ASAP but don't know how to do this. My friends are saying we are being selfish by not telling him. The advice I receive here and with my DB coach is to leave well alone for the time being.
MIL has asked me if I still intend to go abroad for work which I find quite strange. H called her and handed me the phone over to talk. We chit chatted for about 40 mins in which she says she wants me to go and see her before I leave.
So many things swirling in my head. I am finding it hard to focus. I am back to going to bed thinking about my M and waking up thinking about M.
Sorry, just having a harder time than I anticipated.
Hi Py, I haven't spoken to my family yet. Part of me doesn't as I don't want to deal with that at the moment. I know my family will blame me as they have told H numerous times during our M why does H put up with my Behaviour. My mum has seen my H as the perfect H.
your call of course but this is all dragging out for you Smothy and it ain't doing you no good. Blood is thicker than water. You are sure they will blame you - so how will that be different in a month when you are OS? maybe it won't, maybe it never will. maybe you are just sparing yourself this extra grief. what is your mum gonna say? what is your response - "Mum- i am trying everything." Point is he is the one that has called it quits - you are trying - even still!!! It wasn't ONLY about your A, OM, sanctioned crap. Nobody forced him to have this A. Nobody forced him to have earlier EA. Things must've been "wrong" before that.
STOP BLAMING YOURSELF!!!
I know it is commonplace 2*4 approach to wake you up to what you have done as the LBS, to point out what YOU have done wrong, but I really don't think that applies here. You are hurting yourself now. That is not healthy for you. You were here a while back and I don't want to see you there again.
SPIN around Smoth. Look at what you have. You are alive. You are in a 1st world country. You are not starving. you are drinking wine and enjoying fires. you have many friends. you have a son. you choose where you are going to work, and even then you go international.
Look at the clouds. Watch. Watch them blow.Watch them change shape. Do they blow and stop or always move. Focus on now. NOW. NOW. NOW. Give yourself permission for 5 minutes every hour to focus on YOU and NOW. you can waste the other 55 minutes if you like. Worrying about the future, regretting the past.
I do have a good support system in the UK from the handful of people who knows, also my friends abroad keeps me on track.
I have downloaded NMMNG and actually read this. I can see a lot of both our dis functional behaviour in this.
I really want to broach the subject of telling DS with H as he should know ASAP but don't know how to do this. My friends are saying we are being selfish by not telling him. The advice I receive here and with my DB coach is to leave well alone for the time being.
MIL has asked me if I still intend to go abroad for work which I find quite strange. H called her and handed me the phone over to talk. We chit chatted for about 40 mins in which she says she wants me to go and see her before I leave.
So many things swirling in my head. I am finding it hard to focus. I am back to going to bed thinking about my M and waking up thinking about M.
Sorry, just having a harder time than I anticipated.
Tell your son. For Gods sake. Hiding the truth is equivalent to not telling the truth. Tell your H that this is not right. I get the impression that you are conspiring with his non-confrontational ways. Enjoy the summer - what a load of crap. in the winter guaranteed he will remember the summer that his parents carried out the perfect lie over the summer, not what a great summer he had.
sorry to be yelling Smothy. And this is very much just a rant - so dont necessarily act on this. It is just hard to see you going through this - again! I dont really know you - but I do know enough to see that you are blaming yourself and feeling sorry for yourself. I have certainly been there and I do not blame you one little bit. I just want, desperately (hence my frustration) to help you out of it.
Smothy,
Since your H hasn't brought up D word, I wouldn't push it on your son. If your son asks, just simply say that "we're having a rough patch right now and are trying to work through it. This is between Dad and me. I don't want you to feel responsible for this at all. Absolutely not. Married people all over the world face challenges and we are no different here. We love you very much."
That's the truth.
A lot of the times WASes move full steam on D talk, but then just can't bring themselves around to it as time goes on. This is why often we counsel newbies not to have R or D talk because in the early stages emotions run VERY high.
You are feeling anxious because you want some "clearly defined" outcome. I can understand that you feel anxious and want some movement. The movement you want is to re-connect the friendship with your H not on the D track. Right?
Get back on the DB horse and gallop straight ahead.
Huh? Wonka, you do know that the D is all but finalised? I am not familiar with UK D, and decree nisi Smoth described, but my understanding is that it is just a matter of a few weeks before it is a done deal.
Py,
Ye of little faith...
I've been around the boards for many years and I've literally witnesses many DBers reporting that their WASes have called off D at the very 11th hour.
What's more...Smothy's H is ambivalent about D. Time will tell how this plays out.
Wonka,
you're absolutely right. little faith. I am still praying for the 11th hour miracle myself.
Time will tell, in all our cases, but for Smothy _ i think there is limited time until D is finalised. Not that I think this is the end.
Maybe it is just the Mr. Fixer in me, but I am worried for Smothy that she is pinning all of her hopes on this, blaming herself etc. I have spent many hours talking with our dear Smothy and I am concerned about her being unduly hurt.
Thats all.
Thanks for your input Wonka. I wish I had a magic wand to wave.
BTW Smothy - that NMMNG book - I definitely DON'T think it is the best thing that i've ever read. Just worth considering some things. It sounds like maybe you had two NGs in your M. I think I may have as well.
I thought it might be interesting for you to consider that you were not the control freak you sometimes make out that you must've been. I just dont see this in you, never have.
Take care of yourself please. first and foremost. have a nice day. 3 AM here, again! DOH!
Hi Smothy,
I just wanted to stop by, say 'Hello!' and inform you that you are in my thoughts and prayers quite often.
Please keep a PMA, don’t give up and keep working on yourself. I know things don't look good now, but we don't know what tomorrow will bring.
Your friend,
Bob
Feel like I have been punched in the gut after last night revelations.
Evening started well enough cooking dinner for us all. H asked how am I, etc. gave him vague answers to his questions. Joked around dinner table, chatted general good vibe. DS leaves and we carry on drinking wine and chatting. H asks me again how I am, I say good. How is he? H chats a bit more and this is where it spirals.
I decided to take this opportunity to tell him how sorry I am things have turned out this way, recognise his pain and appreciated what he had done for DS and I. I also told him I have always loved him and want him. I tried to explain about how my fears and beliefs from my upbringing has contributed to how I behaved and I can see the impact I had re control and anger and I would do things differently now. H then turns and says he doesn't believe that as we are all decent human beings with childhood issues and I have been a sh&t to him. He then explains he doesn't use his childhood to justify his behaviour.
H proceeds to tell me he is ok where he is now, he spent a long time in a dark place and he has friends that supported him through this. He tells me he still finds me attractive and I will find someone else like he will. He tells me he has had offers and have been out with others for drinks/ dinners as he does get lonely. He misses the physical side of things and if that represents itself he will go ahead. I joked that we should as he find me attractive and I still want him and accept it as it is, just sex.
H tells me him and OW are just friends and that was whom he spent the day with. Prior to this we talked about just letting each other know what we are doing on the days DS is home for dinner.
He then ask me who did I go to the concert with. I told him who the friend was, H ask me if we stayed in separate hotel rooms, I explained is the twin room we originally booked for H and I. (H knows about my friendship with this person during our M). H ask me if we slept together I said no. I said it was a similar situation where he went to London (7th March) and had twin rooms. I asked him who did he go to London with, he tells me and says they slept together. I reiterated that I didn't with friend.
I said that was before he filed and we are still married then. He just gave me a look and said I have no claim to say anything about that. I then just had to leave the table. Went out for several cigarettes and thanked H for being open and honest and he just retorted 'I doubt it!'
This is what I can remember. Feeling hurt and angry, but also strangely calm and not as devastated as I would of been in the last month or so.
What now? I feel like bringing this to a close before I go OS.
Smooth this is [censored]. I am not surprised at all that it hurts. But you know what- it doesn't change your game plan. You have the apprehend here. You see through both of your faults and a way to move forward. What exactly are you most worried about? That this won't turn around? And if it doesn't - what scares you most about that? Can you not see a life for you ahead, no matter what the outcome. What are you thinking about YOUR future?
PMA - Smoth. Positive yeah. keep your chin up - you have persevered through all of this which is worse than my sitch and you are STILL here. You are strong. You are in control. H is reeling in emotional pitfalls. You see them coming. You are ahead of this game Smoth. Whatever happens - you are the winer. "I never lose. I either win or I learn". That is you Smoth. Breathe, be strong.\
-Py
Smothy,
I am so sorry for that yucky conversation.
Cali had what I thought was a perfect response about the so-called loophole in the M contract. I'd suggest that you look it up in either Diff or Heavy's thread here in Newcomers. Golden truth dart by Cali.
Any way, I think it is time for you to pull back and be really less available to H. Don't make your desire to be married to H so blantant and obvious to him. You might want to order some more STFU Smoothies from the factory.
Why don't you fill up your schedule with GAL activities. Schedule some lunch gatherings with your girlfriends. Do something out of the house...even if it is to a book reading at the local bookstore.
I am so sorry. Keep your chin up, this fight isn't over by a long shot.
Just stumbled on this one.
Smothy ... not up to date on your sitch ... but the truth dart I tossed out that Wonka was refering to concerning the loop-hole went something like this:
We were discussing the sitch, W had told me she did not like me calling the A and A, I was a bit confused and asked what she would call it. Her reply ... as many I have seen here state was along the lines of "Its not an A, we are separated and I am seeing someone" I pointed out the separation was her choice, not mine nor a mutual one, and that argument held little water. She again restated "If you are separated then its not an A" so my Nugget that came from nowhere was "Oh, ok I think I understand, so in my next marriage, I can go out with the fellas, get a bit sauced and just call up my W tell her its over just prior to getting naked and bedding another woman" Her look was priceless for the 5 seconds I stayed to see her reaction just before I wished her a nice day and left.
Sometimes just replaying their crazy and switching characters has a way of getting a point across if you can do so calmly ... trick for me was removing the sarcasm to avoid being tuned out.
CALI - that ^^^^^ is ^^^^^^ priceless.
taking notes for when that "not really married anymore" statement reappears from WW.
Ha ha! Classic. If only I could deliver those kind of lines quick enough.
H acting normal when he got home yesterday. Asked what I got up to, was vague and he said oh ok. wanted to ask him about conversation last night but remembered my STFU smoothie. Not sure whether I believe H when he said he slept with the other person in London. Part of me feels he is telling me this to hurt me, other part of me can't get the thought out of my head :-(
Went out for an hour without telling H I was going out. Came back then went to a friend's. H was quite distant. Came back and sat with a smile on my face while playing with my phone. Saw H look over a few times. Had a general chit chat then more distance when he said he was going to bed.
I am going to see my family and friends for the next 5 days. So give us some space between us. h wanted to know my leaving time etc and when I be back. Should I be non committal or tell him the date/ times. H said he needed to know to sort DS out with dinners etc.
Thank you, Wonka and Py for your advice and Bob for your prayers and thoughts.
Scarily, beginning to feel my self becoming distant towards H then the urge to be near him.
As Py states, Is the lady singing?
Wonka, you have given me some more reason to keep going and not just walk away and give up.
Hey Smoth,
dates and times seem not unreasonable. you're doing great. stay "detched" as you can be. it will only help you monitoring/reacting to your sitch. What happened to the meditation? are you practising anything? even the 5 minute centering exercise I suggested?
take care
-Py
"Its not an A, we are separated and I am seeing someone"
Yea, I've had this line a couple of times now.
same NDY - as i have commented before. WASs seem to adopt hollywood version of what an A is. anything less than seedy motel rendezvous is just "friends".
Smoothy
If he did sleep with OW in London, it's just revenge sex. He's out to hurt you. I'd tell him departure times/dates etc., don't seem no harm in that. Is it worth trying a little less distancing when together?
H came home half an hour later than he said and he told me he was back
as he said he would be back at this time and only because he knew I was I was leavibg. I said he could of stayed with his friends drinking, missed an opportunity to validate.
H brought up the issue of the sale of the house today. Sat in the garden for a while and chit chatted. Told H of my plans and said it was ok if he wanted to ask me where I am etc. Said it was hard to talk to me sometimes. Asked me if he knew where I was going (on a course before heading to my mum's) and wished me a safe journey. Went back inside the house after saying goodbye and H ignored me and just concentrated on his iPad. Text to say I arrived at my course.
I don't know whether I am being too keen. Should I ignore him? h always siad I put others first.
Just debating on whether to tell H I arrived at my mums? H said to have a safe journey before I left. Oh these little things that causes so much angst.
Lots of time for me to think about the two conversations H and I had since I got back and can see that in both, I did not leave these positively. Unfortunately, left me feeling a bit of self negativity.
How do we overcome the feeling of worthlessness? My head spins with 'did I really do that?' Was I that awful that S had to leave? Why wasn't I even with a try? Is H really worth this much pain?
Answering these questions is making me quite angry to the extent I am having imaginary conversations where I tell H exactly what a £$%+ he is!!!
This was fuelled by my desire to have my H to talk to about my work weekend, then knowing we were not able to talk in this way anymore. Feeling angry, sad and such a long way from detachment and letting go!
Feeling a bit down, away since Friday and absolutely no contact from H except when I messaged to say I arrived at my place of the course and is everything ok. Only a succinct yes thanks.
Anxiety already about returning home tomorrow.
No expectations, PMA. Always on my mind. Finding it hard to implement all the time.
Hi smothy.
Yea. Detachment is hard. Took me a long time to understand it and even longer to achieve it. Have I arrived there yet? Not 100% convinced of that yet but I'm just rolling with the times.
Trying to not let your life partners choices affect you is really difficult. But that's the destination right now. I follow your sitch and I see my good friends Huddy and Py pitch in a lot. Which is good. This is the place to get all the frustrations out.
The way I see it is that while you are still hanging onto saving your M your not DBing. I could be wrong, but the letting go part is the secrete. Not just for saving your M. That's just a bonus. It's about saving us.
I see the light now. I've felt this change come over me for a while now and I get dropping the rope. I get not focusing on my R with my WW. I get how to let go and get on with life. And it will be a good life.
Ok, you don't feel like that now. It [Self cencored] but it will happen. Stop looking at him and look at you. Forget him for now. He's not your main priority. You are.
Peace
Smothy,
Try to act like your Mr. Bean is your roommate at your house...that's your H. Does that help??
Hi Smoothy
I've only recently started thinking about being 'on my own' and not being afraid of the future. That is the path to detachment. I'm not there yet, but I'm less of a mess than even a month ago.
Support is here from the three amigos and Wonka is the comms expert here!
I know I am not detached. I am cooking dinner for DS and I tonight and even now I am thinking will H be there? A lot of how I feel during the day is centred on him.
I am not afraid of being on my own or my future. I know I will be ok. I am excited about my next move abroad. I want H to be part of this, I can do it alone but want H with me. Does this make sense? Not having him there for me to tell him all my news is painful. Good friends just does not give me the same sense of comfort that H did.
Perfectly normal. You've been part of each others lives so long. NDY used a term similar to shrugging is shoulders when his W kicked him in the guts. I think he was about four months in front of me at that point. It takes a lot of doing. PMA.
Put on a dress and did my hair before H came home to give me confidence and PMA. H came back earlier than expected and told me DS said I was cooking dinner tonight. Asked about my work weekend, general chat, I asked about his day. Poured us both a glass of wine, sat outside, DS turns up and we joked and chatted, a very good vibe. Though one point H handed me some lavendar to smell and he took great pains not to touch my hand. Asked me if I was going to see his mum and this w/e would be good for him too. I said I can go next week on my own.
Continue the good vibe at dinner with more wine. DS leaves and H asks me how am I? I say good, looking forward to abroad, showing PMA. This is where the whole evening changes.
H tells that when he walked through the door this evening, he thought I looked beautiful in my dress and wanted nothing more than to take me upstairs but knew he couldn't. He then continues to say he loves me and will always love me and care for me but cannot be married to me. He doesn't hate me, he did during a part of his dark period but he doesn't now and never will. He explained how hurt he is and the pain he has been in. I validated and said if I could I would do things differently. I don't want the old marriage either. Told H I have been working on myself and changing my core beliefs that have affected my behaviour.
H continued to say we will both find someone else and continue with our lives. I said I would like this to be him and I understand what he is saying. He said he would always be there for me and call him anytime even if I break up with a boyfriend or if they were not treating me right!!!?? H said we would be great friends. I told him I didnt sign up to be his friend but as his wife.
H held out his hand to hold during this talk, when he was saying how much he loves me, I went and gave him a hug and then we sat next to each other holding each other at one point even kissing. The closest we have been since I left to go abroad.
H also told me in this conversation he didn't 'sleep' with the girl he went to London with but slept together as he wanted someone to hold that evening. He also apologised for all the hurt he caused me re OW and said that they are really just friends.
H then says he is going to bed, say goodnight and gives me another hug.
I don't know whether the next part was crazy. After H goes to bed I stay downstairs and decide to go and give him a cuddle. I knock on his door and tell H I would like us to hold each other tonight after our talk. H agrees and tells me it doesn't changes anything. Later on in the night I wake up and H is aroused and we end up ML. Held my hand through the night.
This morning moved his hand when I reached for it, scrambled out of bed and took his iPad and iPhone to the shower. Came into the room to say goodbye and seemed very reluctant to move towards me. I called him and held out my hand, H took it and I told him it was OK, I understand.
Seems like he is backing away after letting his guard down last night. It felt so right to have him by my side. I am not sorry that I went to his room last night as I felt very compelled to do so. However, I am sorry that I did not say no to ML.
Advice, 2x4s? any insight?
You need a vet for that one. On one hand sounds positive, then all the negativity kicks back in.
wow - way to go Smothy
. Bet you never thought that would've happened a month ago.
I think - either it was (for him):
a) just sex
b) sex, also romantic, but doesn't change anything and will not
c) sex, also romantic, might imply that his mind can be changed
d) sex, also romantic, might imply that his mind is changed
in any case a-d, it felt good and still does in somme respect.
in case a and b leave it it felt good and still does in somme respect.
in either case c and d, you have to keep doing what you have been. "Train" up baby. He has definitely not given you the "I'm so sorry Smothy, please take me back speech", so your agenda hasn't changed.
easy as an outsider to be rational. If I had've ever had this happen you would have tranquillise me to stop me from being excited and optimistic - but it is easy for me to tell you - I think you should play it cool. "Yeah that was nice, but no big, nothing has changed". And don't be the one to bring it up!! Let hime bring it up. If he doesn't, let it go. This would just be pursuit all over again and you dont want him to run. He has already taken a step towards you - take another back even.
go girl
.
Smothy,
Try not to take this personally, but that was classic distancer-pursuer dance. Normal. Many WASes run the other direction when there's been some closeness and intimacy.
I think you really did well with dressing up and talking with H.
Next time, H tries to get close or intimate, why not playfully punch H and shove him away with a smile.
Remember the famous saying around here about 'believing none of what they say, but believe 50% of what they do'??
Keep going, sweetie.
Came back from seeing friends at 7.30pm. H is in bed, he said he is tired and didn't get any sleep last night.
Hi Smothy, I guess I struggle with why you would want to get close to him when he's sneaking off to the bathroom with the ipad and iPhone? I think he's lying about 'friends.' You don't guard your phone and ipad like that if there is 'just friends' stuff on them...may not be a PA - but an EA at least.
It sounds like he was conflicted last night and one thing led to another. He has drawn back again now. But you initiating closeness like that is the opposite of DB principles - like you are trying to 'love' him back in. I don't believe that will work. Better to draw back yourself, set appropriate boundaries and enjoy the peace and self-respect that brings.
Have you read anything on co-dependency at all? I haven't - but I want to have a look at co-dependent no more, as people seem to rate it...
Take care, Toots.
Just been speaking to a friend about last night and she said I made a mistake by not being at home when H returned.
I don't want to give H any more justification to D than he has. friend said H probably been thinking about all day about this and when I wasn't home, got pieced and went to bed. :-(
I made the decision not to be here, as I was nervous about us after the aloofness of this morning, also I wanted H to see that I was still GAL.
Any thoughts?
Toots, you are right, what I did was opposite of DB principles. For me last night it was something I wanted to do. My DB coach advised me to take opportunities to be close with touch. I saw this as such a time and jumped right in without really thinking it all through. I needed us to be closer after the conversation we had.
I do realise boundaries needs to be drawn. I have read some of Co dependent no more and I do appear to have some co dependency traits. In fact reading it and recognising myself in some of it was quite frightening.
H went to have a shower with the iPad and phone after unplugging it. I struggle with Believing he isn't having an EA but it is uncertain. H repeatedly tells me the OW are only friends.
H has told me he has been pursued by others from work and had some 'offers'. I know he has been out for drinks and meals but denies he is 'dating'.
actually Smoth - i should've said in case a-d (not just c-d) - you just have to keep going - as i said before whilst it may indeed be seen as cause to be optimistic, it is easier to be realistic as an outsider and "really" nothing about your situation has notably changed. Let him come to you. The other night just suited you yeah. Dont stop wit the dressing up etc and going out. STFU about your sorry - he's heard it a million times - it just reinforces that THAT is how you were and THAT is what he is running from. Better to SHOW him that THAT doesn't exist rather than telling him it doesn't or apologising that it was.
I know you (and I) feel like they haven't really heard it (sorry etc) and whilst that may be true: a) why would this time be different b)actions speak louder than words - always.
BTW - my sitch is at an end. Ling is getting (more) hostile. W doesn't even pretend - openly admits PA etc. OM is now a big feature in kids lives as well. They will be living together as soon as Ling is done. It will last at least 1.5 years until he gets permanent residency I suspect.
I have tried and I have found it in my heart to have compassion for her and forgive her. But this doesn't mean that she is someone I would choose to be friends with. She has been horrible beyond the point of just being a WW. And maybe if she was ever remorseful, these things would fade away and her positives would shine through. ATM I dont want/need her friendship let alone R.
(((Py))) big hugs to you. So sorry to hear that.
My friends are telling me at least when I leave, I would of done everything I possibly could. We are here on this forum trying to work it out. Kudos to us!
absolutely - and I think I have said this to you before as well. whatever happens, in 5 years time you will be able to "detachably" look back on this with a clear conscience. You know you made mistakes, you acknowledge them, you are remorseful and repentant and you did everything you possibly could to save your M, including hurting yourself even further.
good luck my dear friend
I am due to go to see MIL this afternoon for the weekend. H initially said it was good for him too.
Shall I still go if H now decides he doesn't want to?
i think this is in the spirit of what Cadet has advised me in a "similar" situation - YES.
from me - if this is in the interests of your R with MIL, then it has nothing to do with H. You have no control over him and his Rs and vice versa.
absolutely - and I think I have said this to you before as well. whatever happens, in 5 years time you will be able to "detachably" look back on this with a clear conscience. You know you made mistakes, you acknowledge them, you are remorseful and repentant and you did everything you possibly could to save your M, including hurting yourself even further.
good luck my dear friend
Py, the part hurting myself further, really jumped out at me. Until now, I didn't consider I was. Now thinking about how my focus is so on H, I am. I need to put myself as a priority. My moods are more reflective these days and not as panicked as it was in the first few months so I can see some movement in this.
As my move nears, part of me is relieved, thinking I will walk away from this. How true this statement is, I don't know.
good for you Smoth - priority is YOU
At my MIL now. All breezy and light conversation. H said he prefers to drive in silence but I can have the music on declined 180 for me as I always controlled this.
Halfway through the journey H talks about the finances and how he hopes we can be amicable about it. Replied jokingly you know I can half of every thing you own.we laughed about this. Said he didn't want to leave me short and don't see any reason to sell the house unless I want the capital. Validated what he said and kept it light.
Only negative, H was talking about DS and girlfriend and how they were so in love, same aspirations etc and don't I think they were in it for the long haul, I said its hard to tell what the future may be, I thought we were in for the long haul. He seemed p&££ed at this.
Later at MIL house I was looking and texting at my phone and he says I didn't have to come if I rather be somewhere else and who was I texting!!!?? He did apologise for this later and said he shouldn't of asked and be angry about this.
After dinner, we went for a walk and H and I linked arms and had a good walk and chat. At some points I deliberately unlinked his arm and walked faster and played in the play ground. So many conflicting behaviours tonight.
Tomorrow we are going out (MIL, H and I) any tips, conversations I should avoid?
I can't advise anything worthy Smoth - being where I am and all - but being an outsider I would imagine deliberately bringing up any R talk would be bad, very bad. Light and breezy is probably the way to go.
If H or MIL brings it up - shrug it off. "It isn't my choice but hey I'm not going let it destroy my life either."
I really don't know how much you can achieve here. Sure you can maybe influence things and so it is maybe worth the input of a vet here to advise of how to direct/deflect conversation.
I am jaded by my sitch where it doesn't matter a damn what I say or do. True, it MAY occur to my W in years to come that "hey my H was really nice, even after I kicked him in the balls while he was down and had OM piss on him for good measure. Maybe I shouldn't have screwed my family like that. He was devoted maybe I can go back to that...."
Priority is YOU remember. Whatever the outcome, regardless of the outcome, act in the way that in future you can be proud of. And you can't go wrong.
Sorrry, I couldn't be of more help. Good luck.
Thanks, Py. Good day today. Light and breezy. Several times where H offered his 'arm' for me to link through. Enjoyed lunch all together. Some light 'touching' on the back. Offers me wine, asks if I am ok.
H went to room to rest. Nobody talking about elephant in the room.
His sister popped in for a chat, again as nothing has happened. I know that H emailed her a day before our Anniversay. I am still unsure this is the way to go as I do feel that H feels this absolves H of his actions and that he feels 'see D is ok, nothing has changed, we are still acting as one happy family' . This is not the image I want to portray.
Would love some advice from some vets on this.
Forgot to add, when we drove down yesterday, I thanked him for driving and coming with me and he said it would be weird not to come and also weird to come! Neither of us have mentioned anything of what happened the other night.
I am still unsure this is the way to go as I do feel that H feels this absolves H of his actions and that he feels 'see D is ok, nothing has changed, we are still acting as one happy family' .
This is not the image I want to portray.
WHY?
What do you think this will accomplish?
His sister did nothing wrong.
Why punish her?
I think you have to speak with your actions towards him.
I don't think it is about punishing, more the idea H thinks this is ok as there are 'no hard feelings'
What do you mean by speak with your actions towards H? I do t think I am pursuing so not sure what types of actions you are referring to? Not trying to sound stupid, but seriously don't know?
I don't think it is about punishing, more the idea H thinks this is ok as there are 'no hard feelings'
I agree that is what he thinks, those are his feelings though and he is entitled to feel whatever he wants.
You don't have to like them.
What do you mean by speak with your actions towards H? I do t think I am pursuing so not sure what types of actions you are referring to? Not trying to sound stupid, but seriously don't know?
I am just trying to say that if you ML to him or pursue him then what message are you sending with your actions?
You can't say anything that is going to change his mind right now.
You can only control your own actions.
Bad night, after keeping the PMA up for all of the time in front of MIL and H. Burst into tears and sobbed my heart out.
Hearing H reminiscing to MIL about some aspects of our holidays etc was too much.
Get out of the madness for a while smoothy. Your H is playing a tune here, and you're jigging along to it. Stop. Dance to disco instead!
Thank you, Huddy. H just said I sounded upset and do I want to talk about it.
I said not now, thank you. What shall I say, I don't want to bring up R talks.
Went to church today and one of the phrases from a hymn paraphrasing here; leave the past, the future is before us striked a chord. Sermon was about finding peace in ourselves and open ourselves to Christ to find it.
Hey Smoth, how are you going?
Hi Py, thank you for looking in. H is hot and cold. Some positive changes in H in the last few days;
yesterday, he text me first asking me what I was doing for dinner and would I like to get something. The previous evening he failed to come home on time for a prearranged family dinner. I told him I had plans and he offered to drop me off at friends so I can have a drink. I said I can do something this evening so we will see. H offered to share the footstool, left his iPhone and iPad out where I can see it. Not trying to read to much into it. I feel that H is being nicer as he knows I am leaving in just over 3 weeks.
DS wants us all to go to MIL again all together and I don't feel comfortable with it so explained I will be busy sorting things out for my new job.
I have reread DR lately and started reading a book called 'Mindsets' which looks at how our behaviour is determined by our perception and perspective of the world. Interesting and easy read. I can only control me is beginning to sink in!
Went out for a bite to eat this evening. Pleasant. Joked and laughed about out perspective Jobs. On the way home H tells me how MIL would still like to see me as I am her other 'daughter'. Said she likened us to Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. I've we get on so much better now the pressure is off! Really? Justification? iPhone and iPad guarded again. :
Smothy,
Yep, WASes are hot and cold. That is why it's so important to unhitch your wagon from him otherwise he's just dragging you all over the place like Dennis the Menance.
I think it would be good to a relationship with the MIL. That is the key here as I sense that H wants the "family" connection to be there. That is saying a lot right there. He could have installed the OW into the family.
Count those small victories, sweetie.
Thanks, Wonka. H went into the hot tub last night and asked me why I wasn't joining him. Spent some time chatting. Feels so weird we do all these things but he is still adamant about D.
I am going to London tomorrow with a friend and already he is asking me whether I am staying overnight. I am worried that he will get the wrong idea if I do but see this as an opportunity to GAL and show him I am moving forward.
Spoke to DB coach yesterday and she said to continue with these 'bonding' time sessions. I feel sometimes we are so close but so very far apart. I do feel that OW is very much his friend and don't think any thing is there. However, I really do not know.
Feeling less anxious these days, unfortunately still not as detached as I want to be. Getting there very very slowly.
Hi Smoothy
The irritation factor is off the scale here. So, he wants you in the hot tub, but still wants a D? He needs to make his mind up pretty quickly. You need to just distance a little bit. He's coming for you, but needs to make more effort and be precise on what he wants.
I don't believe H is 'coming for me'. He is a conflict avoider and I feel that he is trying to maintain a friendship. H has always stated he would always want me in his life as a friend.
I know I am mind reading here, I don't feel that for him it is any more than that.
It's a bit hard to argue that you are or you should be doing everything for you irrespective of what he might be thinking. The truth is that what he is thinking is pAramount here to saving your M. What he is DOING is probably more accurately what you should be paying attention to. Not even so much what he is saying is worth your worry.
So if you want to go in the hot tub - go. I know you ARE trying to influence his thinking. Possibly the approach here is to SHOW you don't care what he is thinking. The best wAy to do that is to genuinely not care what he is thinking.
So H texts twice, do I know when I will be back? Replied, staying over will be back tomorrow.
Replied ok thanks. I just don't understand.
No, none of us do, really.
Back to the house, H is pleasant but distant. Working in the garden. Sent DS to pick me up at the station.
I went into the hot tub later and H joined me, (I didn't ask him, he just came in), there was no conversation at all. Later, whilst sunbathing, he also joined me but was texting throughout. Sometimes I feel he is also carrying out 180s and Sandis rules too.
Refused family dinner, watched a bit of TV, then suddenly at around 8.30pm, got up, gathered his things and went upstairs to bed without a word, not even goodnight.
It is so hard not to try and analyse each non/interaction with H.
You just want to know one way or the other.
Yes, the Urge to ask is overwhelming. H has stopped 'hiding' his texting now openly does it in front of me but phone tilted away.
Since going to London this weekend, with the same friend I went to the concert with, H has been more distant and cold. I did question going on the premise of will this bring me closer to my goal but felt that I needed to GAL and move forward.
I don't believe H is 'coming for me'. He is a conflict avoider and I feel that he is trying to maintain a friendship. H has always stated he would always want me in his life as a friend.
I think this is close to reality. WAS's in an EA/PA are addicts, and their #1 priority is to avoid consequences in their life and protecting their drug of choice. As much as the limbo stinks for you, it is his safe haven as it allows him to live with one leg on each side of the walk-away fence. Cake eating. Also, while he may not be afraid of D, if that does come to pass I'm sure he doesn't want an angry or vindictive woman, so I think keeping things friendly serves him there as well. Again, all about avoiding consequences of his choices.
Of course you're not the one that needs to apply those consequences, nor should you. Let life do that on it's own. Just remind yourself the M is over. While the future is unknown he is a long way from being remorseful, changing his behavior, growing, and recommitting to doing whatever it takes to make a new better M. Until then you best act as if you knew for sure the D was on, and continue to do those things you should: Detaching, boundaries, and your own personal GAL and 180s which are for YOU (they may be based on your half the breakdown of the R and may have been uncovered based on his feedback, but they are NOT for him).
Once you've done this you can play the waiting game. Live your life. Find your own happiness. Be the person you want to be. It may seem like you're enabling him to avoid consequences, but you're not. The idea of living like this for a year may seem insane, but I don't think so. If you are truly detached and enjoying your life the passage of time will be much easier on you than it is on him. He'll be dealing with all the crap from his own conflicted emotions, an OW that may be pressuring him and looking less appealing at times, and frustration that you're not letting him cake eat. Sooner or later he'll be forced to action by OW or by his own pain. When that happens you'll have made a smooth path home without enabling him to avoid the growth and commitment that road requires.
Thank you, Zues. It has taken me a long time to start thinking this way. I am finding detaching hard and I am weighing too much on these last 3 weeks. DB coach has told me to take a day at a time.
I am scared that once I move abroad, moving back towards each other will be so difficult to do.
H seems colder and more distant with each passing day. The care H has exhibited previously is not longer apparent. I fear going to London has made H feel I no longer care about him.
Yeah, I get it. Right now he's probably not happy that you're not wrapped around his finger. But you're right...the distance will grow greater, because the M is over and that is what happens.
LBS's hope that DBing will suddenly swing the pendulum back, but while DBing and 180s are a requirement, the second requirement is that the WAS changes as well. That is out of our control. For that to happen he will have to hit a rock bottom.
So if you're beyond the stage of measuring your progress by how warm he is or how many texts he sends you or someone else you're on the right track. It's all about you. And it's good to grieve the loss of the M. Take care of yourself, and let the future play out.
hey Smothy,
We have been down this road before that Zeus ^^ is talking about. Unfortunately returning home took things back to square one and advise from DB coach and others (Wonka etc) seems to negate this. Give you hope that you might turns things around at the 11th hour so to speak. This may all be true but I think you should look for another interpretation in all this advise that is there and agrees with ^^.
You say you wish you knew one way or the other. Well to be harsh - "You do you bloody idiot!!" You are just counting down the days until the D is made final. How much clearer could it be? Obviously not living with conflicted, conflict avoiding WAS whom sends mixed messages would be the answer. So this is what you have to walk away from. Make it not affect you.
1. You dont want D BUT it is on the way
2. The ONLY chance you have of curtailing this is to move forward with purpose as the new Smothy he won't want to leave. He does NOT want to go back.
3. The ONLY way for you to genuinely move forward is to NOT be so hung up on every move he makes.
Detach. Detach from the outcome. All you are doing is setting yourself up for success/failure. It will be what it will be. Focus on what you have now, not on what you might (not) have later. We all should live like this, all the time. On the day the D is finalised/NOT you will have your success/failure. In a month when you look back at D-day it will be either success NOR failure. If success you will be gauging his reaction to every attempt you make in piecing back together your R. If failure you will be writhing in the prolonged, cyclical whirlpool of grief that we are all in.
So my point is there is no point of success or failure, there is just A future. In that future you are still going to be faced with life's problems. OK so maybe this is a the extreme low end, but you are not going to jump straight back up to being on top of the world. You are still going to have to wade through this crap end of life for sometime yet before things are all rosy again. So now and that future will be best served by how YOU live now and in the future. In fact, the future will likely be best served by how YOU live now.
Just float Smothy. Float and smile. I know how damned hard it is. In a few hours I go to pick up the kids for my week. He'd back to the M house. Strip the bed sheets that my W and OM [censored] in, in our bed. It [censored]. It is miserable. What is my desired outcome and for when? What is yours? Does it matter that they are not the same? Does it matter what they are at all? Dont get pinned down to an outcome. Float. Having an "outcome" means you gauge every step WRT that outcome.
I hate this, BT bill shows he has been texting two OW. Through out the whole day.
What is worst the second person is someone I know, whom I am seeing on Weds. Texts to her are everyday, morning to night. Shall I ask her/ H about it. It is a female friend I have been intimate with that H knows about and have encouraged and seen us together. Uuuuggghhhhhh!!!!!!
I can't believe how this is turning out.
Zues, Pyrite will reply soon, just can't get my head around this new bit of information.
Sorry Smoth. It is shocking to me that people can make these choices. Clearly it doesn't matter how inappropriate or destructive it is. They are both burning up their lives to run from problems and find shortsighted comfort.
I wouldn't do anything while you're in shock, nothing's going to change in a week. Just don't let him know YOU know, otherwise you'll appear complacent. As long as you keep this to yourself you can deal with it later. I am disgusted, but right now I'd just use that as more reason to detach and keep this filth off you.
No hurry Smoth. I have just received an email from the W and I am finding it really hard to just answer NO. I am just stunned. I just can't get my head around it. How someone (W) can be so selfish (and stupid) and it has just escaped me for 12 years. Maybe this is just a WAS thing. But hey, my W openly admits to being in love with OM and sleeping with him, and I was a thorn in her side for years - all sorta OK - but this was her compassionate, comforting speech to me. She genuinely thought it would soothe me to hear these things. I just can't get my head around it, and I thought that would be the last time. But now she has just proven herself again. my point is - let go of the rope.
Smothy,
I would pull back from these two women. You don't want to be in the same quicksand as they are in now.
Withdrawal and silence from you speaks volumes. Trust me, they will take notice of your actions. Courage comes from quiet strength. You can do it!
I would keep the bill information in your back pocket. I wonder if you have had the no-OW contact speech to your H in the house? We worked with Train on that script in her threads.
Time to draw the line as you don't be disrespected in your own house.
Wednesday - give that a miss. Double agent.
Had dinner with DS, H ask whether I am going to be home tomorrow evening. Tell him I have plans and did not divulge any more. H says ok then....
Wonka, I did not drink enough STFU smoothies.
I tell H that I am meeting with OW2 on Weds and is there anything H had said about us that I needed to know. Then the lies started, only got her number a couple of weeks ago, saw her at work. she said she wanted to contact me. Gave her my number. Records show that there were 120 text between them on one day alone and this goes back to May. Did not disclose anything and said ok.
H ask about my stay in London and which friends I went with, Asked if I had a lot on tomorrow and was a bit Pi$$y when I was a little vague. Then started saying he did not have the right to answer and I said, I had nothing to hide, and it was H that always lied about what he was doing (missed STFU smoothie 1) and I have nothing against us being truthful with each other.
h started clearing the table and said it was hard for both of us, feeling overwhelmed and told him it was harder for me as he was the one that wanted this not me. (STFU smoothie missed 2). Said it was hard for me being served D papers whilst 1000s away away without family and close friends. (3) Said I would like to at least given a chance to go to mediation and counselling (4) and have an u der standing of why (5)
H said we didn't need this as he was being civil. Surprisingly, we both wanted to go to the hot tub but I said I did not want to talk any more, I understand it is hard but neither of us where in the right frame of mind.
Both agreed to talk another time. All these months this was what I was trying to avoid. My behaviour today would of been similar to that before BD. very disappointed with how I handled this.
i dont get it. what was so bad there that you did? you wished you weren't 1000s miles away and had a chat with MC - this sounds completely reasonable to me and H's adopted course was cruel, cowardly, callous and quite frankly uncivil. it was selfish. stop accepting so much of the blast. you MAY have driven him to a point in the M where he was lost and wanted out etc but HE got out of the car. And all of his criticism of how you drove him there - thats all part of his script to make himself the victim here and justify his actions.
i'll copy this sentiment on my thread as well it is time for an update.
I ran into an ex a few weeks back. We broke up 15 years ago, but were together 7 years - so not a short time. of course we ended up talking about my sitch. she is a very level headed girl, she is herself and also has lot of friends who are also in my sitch with young kids, struggling R.
Almost her first comment was "everybody's M is on the rocks when you have babies and young kids. I dont know anybody whose M is stable at these times. But MOST people dont go out and have an A. Everybody thinks it, but nobody DOES it." Well obviously some ppl do! And that is the kicker for me. That is the biggest shock. I honestly didn't see this coming. I didn't imagine that my W would be one of THEM. So is you H obviously. What happened to the intermediate counselling and mature, committed approach that we expected. They just got lusted away.
So maybe this is what we have to get used to Smothy. Stop applying our analysis to their behaviour. They are a different breed. The same rationale doesn't apply in their parallel universe. There, they are being civil, they are justified, they were victims, and they are still doing nothing wrong.
We are holding out hope that they will return to our Universe. That is a long shot. Certainly possible, but a long shot. And then we are hoping that they want to R. A further stretch. I would bet that statistically it almost never happens.
Stop looking over his side of the fence. It just hurts and none of it makes sense anyway. Stop snooping. Do what you gotta do, but stop watching for his reaction. I doubt very much that you might miss the cue to step in and stop the D.
The day after the D goes through will you immediately give up. I doubt it very much. You will likely do what you have to move forward, but you will still be open to R. Or does that piece of paper mean that much? So does that day mean so much? So why should you change so much? How do you want to (will you) be once D has gone through? Once that piece of paper defining your M has been stamped with the official "I dont want this M" stamp. Well guess what - while you are waiting anxiously on that stamp to end it, he (and my W) is just waiting patienttly for it to be delivered. It has already been stamped, long ago.
Another big pile of contradictions. They enjoy the arguments (seeing that myself) so pull back and let go. Limit the options for the WAS.