Oct 14-28, 2014 | W cheating and near-separation in 2009, search for explanations for BD 2014
Oct 28-Nov 4 | OM confirmed through kids on Halloween, refocus on me rather than blaming W
Nov 4-10 | OM confirmed by W in email, strollergate, W has problems at work, unexpected blind date
Nov 10-18 | Lunch with W went well, reflections on being dumped, kids and OM
Nov 18-Dec 8 | W warms up but OM set to move in in January, W's birthday email
Dec 8-Jan 2, 2015 | To be nice or not to be, two trips make me feel better, office party video
Jan 2-16 | Turning down lunch invite, telling W I need to move on, W emails about D
Jan 16-31 | WAW wants to change job, move to her country, I agree to meet
Feb 2-25 | Plans for moving abroad are nixed, D papers are delayed at my request, flirting experiments begin
Feb 27-Mar 24 | D7 birthday plans, PMA crash, serial cheating, dating debate, detachment at last?
Mar 24-Apr 29 | Great dating debate, the expensive watch, GALing better, my tone on these forums
May 5-Jun 17 | Online dating, crying at the school play, genetics of cheating, mediation begins
My storyAfter 9.5 years together and two kids, my W announced in early September 2014 that she wanted a separation. A week of pleading and begging didn't change a thing. She said she wanted to be free, alone, find her true self, that I was criticizing her too much, that we're incompatible, that she was unhappy and no longer in love with me and she didn't want to live with half-emotions. She had told me before of some of those
complaints and that she was
miserable. We had not yet addressed everything, we would fight more than average, and I wasn't changing fast enough, so she was growing hopeless that things would improve.
A week after BD, she moved out. A month and a half later, she confirmed my suspicions that she was with a coworker, met at the new job she started a month before BD. He moved in with her in January. Our two daughters know and like him enough and generally take the S in strides.
DBingI accept responsibility for what I did in the M, by being too critical and dismissive of my W's feelings. I understand that my W was looking for something she wasn't finding in the M. I sometimes understand why she left, since she was miserable, and sometimes think leaving was too strong a reaction for the situation. I tend to blame her flight reflex and unrealistic expectations for love and family life. My heart wants to R, but my head tells me that it's a pattern with her and that I better not expose myself to it again.
My stance at the moment is to let her live her life while I reflect and try to focus on me. In January, I told her I didn't want to interact beyond the practicalities of the kids because I need to move on. I'm good at being silent and distant so the "no pursuing" rule is easy to apply for me. After nine months and little contact, I can say that detachment is taking hold. I see a therapist since BD and I've also started dating in May (8 months after BD).
_________________________________________________
SUCCESS STORIESI update this list every time I start a new thread.
Please make suggestions, especially with links to threads. I wish we had room in our profile to tell our story so that the vets and other successes could give us a quick summary.
MLC Success Stories ReconciliationThornton (M) -
May to July 2014 Train (W) -
Reconciled in 2014 Labug (W) -
March 2011 to December 2013 HopefulStill - reconciled in 2012
minkerman (M) -
Reconciled after 4 months in 2008 25yearsmlc (W) -
2005 to August 2008FaithfulH -
Reconciled in 2007 sandi2 (W) -
2007Coach (M) -
2008MrBond (M) - Used to have another screen name
Starsky309 (M) - (
ChocolateEyes,
Puppy Dog Tails) -
Aug 2007 to 2009. Exposed his W's A.
Butterflymom127 and FavoriteWeirdo -
Thread LITB (M) -
December 2010 to May 2012Raine (W) -
Dec 2012 to November 2014 (MLC) ReachingHigher (W) -
April 2012 to May 2014SM34 (M) -
December 2012 to December 2013 AliSuddenly (W) -
H left in January 2008, moved out, had OW. Piecing May 2009, married July 2010 kalni (W) -
BD on November 2007, piecing in January 2010Angel61 (W)-
BD June 2010, H had EA, Retrouvailles November 2011Piecing as of 2014-2015(newly added) Kramer (M)(newly added) edz (M)Jefe (M)T0324 (W) H leaves in Febr 2014, filed for D, had OW, piecing fails in Aug 2014, piecing again in Mar 2015
Crimson (M) Heart14 (W) Signs 2014-02, DB 2014-07, Piecing since 2014-07
Nitty - BD in December 2013, piecing as of September 2014
Letting goLove2Surf (M) -
March 2010 to 2012pearlharbr (W) -
November 2008 to June 2010 (19 months) Snow White (W) -
2008-2009. Let go when her H wanted back in.
Drew (M) -
2008BigMac (M) -
June 2014 to February 2015 WAW offered R at the last minute and he turned it down
Underdog (Betsey) D final in May 2005
ResourcesValidation |
Boundaries |
Detachment |
Dance of Pursuit and Distance |
Acronyms |
Stockdale paradoxThe sandi2 collection:
The Wayward Wife |
It takes time |
Letting back too easyWonka:
The Starter kit / Post-BD plan of action
I'm back! I was daunted by the update of my initial post, but now that it's done, it will be easier to come back and give a quick update.
Mediation report | I survived the second session, but it got tense. I had to bring up the fact that WW might have foreign assets and income and she didn't like it, denying it and even raising her voice. I remained calm, but felt the mediator wasn't very helpful. I think WW simply doesn't understand what is asked of her, so one needs to explain it to her, and it becomes my job. Anyway, we had a talk after the mediation session and we both agreed that we wanted none of each other's money anyway — no alimony, no child support, no assets. We'll see at the next session (tomorrow) if this is even possible.
I don't like the mediator. She just doesn't seem competent. We spent half the session going back on stuff that WW and I thought were settled. Also, I had to correct the mediator a few times (I'm logical and detail-oriented) and she even mixed up names of the kids and our own! I never feel like she brings value, other than nothing down what we say. If it doesn't improve, I'll tell WW that I want to change.
Detachment report | This is getting a little better. The mediation session and then conversation with WW didn't affect me all that much, nothing like before. She's slowly becoming "just another girl", even though I'm not there yet. The reasons why I might not want to be with her are also becoming clearer, but I don't want to reject her out of spite or to make up for my own rejection.
During the conversation after mediation, she told me about work and complained about stuff that got her all giddy back at DB: now her colleagues are immature, noisy, talk about sex too much, the office dog is annoying, etc. Sigh. I keep thinking that if she hadn't been so impulsive, she would have quickly seen that this fantastic new life was an illusion. Also, she called me yesterday to tell me that her best friend back home had a serious health scare recently. She was still very emotional about it. It's not the first time she calls about safety topics. I don't get it and I don't try to.
Dating report | Much happened on this front. Women came and went in my life, some are still around. I play it as honestly as possible and it seems to work. Yesterday though, I surprised myself when I was very sad that one of them cancelled our date and wanted things to cool off. I didn't realize how attached I had grown in just two weeks. I had a bad day. I still have much to learn.
Work report | This is getting better (for memory: I freelance, from home). I have more motivation than before and I'm more productive, even though I'm nowhere need where I was pre-BD and where I should be. Still, here too I can feel the positive trend.
-------------------
Fogg | You're right, I need to focus on myself. In general, I'm quite good at it and I don't care much about the day-to-day minutia of her life. The mediation makes it harder, as we need to compare certain things for a distribution of assets, kids, money...
Toots | I imagine that it must be hard to start the financial disclosure. I don't like my own process and I sent you positive thoughts for yours.
mahhhty | I admire that you went through the mediation process. Thanks for sharing your experience.
raliced | Yes, "calm, principled and dignified" is a good combo. I think that's how I come across, if also a bit distant and cold. It doesn't quite help my robot image with WW, which is ironic because most other people around me seem surprised to realize how emotional I am.
HeavyD | Thanks a lot for stopping by. I also read your sitch every now and then even though I don't comment. I like the general direction of where it's going.
Wonka | I wrote that I "cant" work, much like would say "I can't watch that movie". Sure, nothing prevents me from working, but I find very little motivation to do so. As I wrote above, this is slowly improving. Still, my income will likely be around 50% of last year's.
I love the success stories Mozza, thank you so much for posting them. I try to read them when I'm at my lowest just to get an idea of what others have gone through.
They're often chalked full of wisdom too. This is stuff that has worked, this is what I was faced with, and this is what I did.
They're a big help!
Welcome back, Mozza.
I was wondering when you were going to start a new thread. Had something I wanted to post to you, but I have since forgot it. Will post if it comes back to me.
RAI
Mediation report | The third session went fairly well. WW came with a note saying her parents had confirmed that she had no revenue nor property abroad, to their knowledge. In short, we introduced the idea to the mediator that we did not want to pay child support nor split assets. It is a bit complex how to avoid paying child support, but it is possible. Still, any spouse remains capable of suing for it. As for assets, it's fairly simple as we have about none to split. So this will quickly close the financial aspect of the D. In fact, next time we're supposed to meet just to review the whole thing. It went by real fast. I'm tempted to say that it's because WW and I easily agree on these things and always have.
I was sad at some point. I'm divorcing. Against my will. From the woman I love. Losing half my kids. I can try and detach all I want, I can't keep this from affecting me. After the session, she walked me as far as she could before our ways parted and we ended up speaking another 15 minutes on a street corner, like two people who have much to say and can't say it. She laughed too much at the slightest joke. She wants to be friends. Oh.
___________________
PigPen | Thanks for letting me know! That's why I put them together. Always remember that these things take time and what my signature says: "The middle of every successful project looks like a disaster."
RAI | Thanks! Well, that'll teach me not to procrastinate!
I think I remember what I wanted to tell you. I saw you lose some of your lustre towards the end of your last thread. Despite your sitch, there is usually an air of optimism pervading your thread. When I saw you down, I was concerned. I just wanted to cheer you up and tell you what a great support you have been to others on this board.
That is all.
RAI
Glad to see you back posting Mozza. This is another one of those tough times. Feel the fear and do it anyway. You will get through this.
Cheers,
Karma
Mza
Great to see you post. Sounds like you need a new mediator.
You know V is a fan!
V
Mediation report | The fourth and last session took place today. WW wanted to talk about relocating to her home country eventually and said that she was willing to stay here another five years, but not a full 15 (until D3 is 18 and roaming the world anyway). This was news to me that she was willing to stay that long. My take on it was that it's way too early to decide what we'll do in five years. The mediator was with me on this. I pointed that within the span of three years, we went from the birth of D3 to her moving out. I said that life was full of surprises, including this D in my case. I also said we had no idea how our situation would be in five years, including remarrying someone with a family here, maybe marrying someone from abroad, etc. I mentioned that five years ago, we were getting married and had only one kid, and five years prior, we had just met. I never made any mention that we might be R at some point; it seemed like pursuing. WW didn't get much out of this discussion because I only said I was aware of the difficulty of our situation and that things could evolve greatly over the years. Next step is to find a new lawyer that will translate our agreement into legal language to file for D.
PMA report | I'm getting bored again with my sitch. I feel much less affected by my encounters with WW. Part of me wants to be friendly because I just don't care much. In the discussion after the mediation, she made a big deal that I started cooking cake recently, as if she couldn't fit this with her image of me. Not sure why (been cooking for years, just not dessert). I slipped in there that I had regain the weight, but better (no direct mention of the gym). I told her a few fun things we've been doing with the kids. She also showed a bit of a competitive parenting side when I told her that I finally watched Frozen with D7 and D3, saying with regret that she meant to watch it with them. After we parted ways, I went on about my day as if nothing happened. I was not sad, I was just done with an unpleasant business of the day. Before the session though, I had cried at home because I'm facing the loss of my family once again. No such thing afterwards. The feeling is best described as "Oh well".
Have I given up on R? No. It's just not in the cards right now and everything tells me to focus on myself anyway, so that's what I do. I don't think I do anything to prevent R from happening eventually. I'm still very cordial.
Dating report | Not sure what to say. So much is happening on this front. I consider it to be mega-GAL (very absorbing) rather than proper relationship stuff, but I do feel enthusiastic about it oftentimes. It gives me some insight into the WAS mind, as I feel the pull of the new, the apparently simple. Yet, I'm still in the middle of D and quite early in therapy and do not consider myself M material for anyone. I'm not making promises to that effect. Maybe one day I'll take the time to share a bit more about what's happening, but I wonder if it's of interest or relevant for the LBS on this board. I'll just say for now that it's fascinating to see how fast things can evolve in nine months.
All will be fine in the end? I'm starting to believe it.
______________________
RAI | You're right, I was very concerned by this mediation. I feel better now that it's behind me. Hopefully, the optimism with shine again!
Karma12 | Yes, tough times, but less tough every time. Phew!
Vanilla | I'm not sure I'm worthy of your appreciation, but I welcome it! I hope you're well, considering the painful situation in which you are. I'm glad you are on these boards, for you and for all of us, LBS. Consider me a fan too.
You got through it Mozza. All you can do at this point is continue to move forward and to try and find some joy in each day. Keep posting. You aren't alone.
Great update from you, Mozza. Sounds like you are taking each day as it comes...
PMA Report | I'm 92% well. I go about my days almost like pre-BD. I focus on whatever I have to do, I make plans, I GAL, I laugh. The S is no longer a thick fog, it's just clouds in the sky that hide the sun every now and then. Oh, I still cry a few times a week, but in short bursts and then I go back to my business.
I'm kids-less for two weeks — one week done already. The kids are gone with WW in OM's family at one of the most beautiful places on Earth. They'll go to the beach for the first time, a project that we had for years and that I'm missing. This is a bit difficult to think about. WW wrote me today that the jet lag had been difficult but that the kids were gaining confidence in the water. She thanked me for my flexibility (we had to adjust the schedule). All I can do is take the punch and suffer in silence. I thanked her for the update and did not tell her how difficult this is for me.
Work Report | Great progress on that front recently. I officially left the coworking space and set up my home office. I've reached a level of motivation that I hadn't had since BD. I deliver work more consistently and I've the energy to do a little something extra. This is a an important change for me as it was the last aspect of my life that was still seriously lagging behind.
IC Report | I've progressed a lot in the awareness of my issues, but I have not yet succeeded in assuming my desires. This means that I will not ask for what I really want; I will take what is offered. On a dating website for instance, this means that I will respond to the women who contact me, but not initiate contact with those who interest me. Of course, this attitude is reflected in the rest of my life and the result is that I miss out on what I want and accumulate frustrations. I'm surprised to realize that I've made so little progress on this, but I agree with the diagnostic.
Dating report | Casual dating is not easy for a serial monogamist eager to please like me. Emotionally, it's exhausting because I tend to invest much into each date or encounter. I always check that the other person is on board, feels comfortable, I tend to suggest commitment even when I don't mean it because I feel it's what the other person wants to hear. Then I have to backtrack which is even harder. It's good practice and I'm learning a lot about myself. And to be honest, it's more fun than it is difficult.
GAL Update | Allow me a little brag, because I gained 20 pounds in the last four months by going to the gym and adjusting what I eat. Oh, I should clarify that this is good news: I was quite skinny with a BMI below 19 and now I'm above 21. And the difference is not around my waste! My discipline about it has been a psychological boost.
On other GAL news, I've started to learn the ukulele (easy when you already play guitar) and I've most likely forgotten all about my recent swing lessons!
Glad to hear you are doing well Mozza!!!
Hi mozza,
I'm glad work is going well. And if its the right kind if weight gain I imagine that feels good.
2 weeks without the kids has to be rough, so I hope you're doing OK and I bet you're looking forward to seeing them next week.
You said you take what is offered but don't initiate contact. Any idea what's stopping you? For me that sort of thing is usually a fear of failure/rejection.
Have a good weekend
Good for you, it sounds like you are doing the right thing. And thank you for the links to the success stories, I needed that. Hang in there, you will see your kids soon!
We all have low times Mza.
I really get the can't work, it feels like treacle some times.
Hugs
V
Hi Mozza,
It sounds like you are on the right track. It feels good when there are more good days than bad days. It takes time and work to heal and move on. Best to do the work now. Many ( like my ex) jump right in to a new relationship. This prevents reflection, growth and grieving. One day when you are well and healed your ex will be dealing with the emotional fall out of all this as I'm sure mine will too.
Cheers,
Karma
It's been a rough couple of weeks. Nothing dire like the early months, but a slight increase in pain from the recent weeks. It's mostly due to moving from mediation to actual filing. We didn't want to use the mediator because she didn't inspire confidence, but I was the only one who wanted to do some research and it took time to reach even two lawyers (summer vacation but also avoidance on my part). Being in charge of any aspect of the D makes me feel like cutting my hand (cf 127 hours) and I had a few cries.
WW and I had a tense email exchange this week. She decided unilaterally to reroute the government money she gets for the kids from the joint account to her private account. It probably makes more sense like this, but I'm upset that she did it without talking to me first and I told her so. She wanted to talk on the phone and I declined, saying I had made my case. It kind of stalled our talks on the D though, as we both went silent in the last couple of days. I don't know if I was justified to express my surprise and anger.
WW just wrote me, ecstatic, that she got an excellent performance review at work. It's very good news because work has been a source of stress for her, especially as her job feels somewhat insecure. Her email is light and full of joy. I just don't know how to respond. I've been uber-distant with her since almost the beginning, refusing to meet her unless absolutely necessary, not showing much warmth in my communications, etc. I was told and think that I can't "nice" her back anyway. Also, it makes it less likely that she'll share random stuff she's doing, because it causes me pain.
So, how much warmth do I show? Do I share her joy? Do I keep it to a mere "Sounds fantastic! Keep it up!" sort of? I feel I'm good at taking my distances, but not so much at knowing how distant to be.
Hi Mozza, I would share the moment with her. She has reached out to you with that email. Let her know that you are pleased for her & offer congratulations...
Hi mozza. Good to hear from you, I was wondering how you're doing.
That distance warmth thing is a difficult line but I think Toots is right but used closed statements. You can respond supportively without inviting any more detail.
How goes the dating/GAL?
Thanks Toots and jim0987. I ended up writing her 2-3 fairly warm sentences to congratulate her. And this morning she texts me: "So, could you call this D lawyer? Let me know the date for an appointment".
Man - that must feel like a punch in the gut. You text to say congradulations and she uses the outreach to pound you to call the lawyer.
I would not call the lawyer, that's her job. I would not lift a finger nor respond to her text.
If she wants to call, let her. Let her set an appointment.
Jeez
Yes, it was hurtful. I haven't responded yet, but I will. Our S is slightly different from yours and I've been at least collaborative, if not proactive nor quite responsive (mostly out of pain). I've even agreed in mediation to react to her (relevant) communications within 72 hours. I will likely tell her that she can call the lawyer herself. The problem is that she'll do it in 10 minutes and I'll look like an obstructive fool.
Sorry Mozza-
So is the Divorce Lawyer an escalating step in the process where you are? Or is this just a replacement for the not so satisfactory mediator? How are those sessions going?
Good work congratulating her. It's gets to be wearisome but always better to be gracious.
Mozza, I can see the D follow up question in a different way. Instead of "let me say something nice and then punch Mozza", I see it as "even though we are getting D, I can still celebrate with Mozza and we can discuss D in a calm way". I really can. Maybe????
Hey Mozza,
I understand how confusing that kind of behavior is. My STBX does the same with me. When he did well in court he texted me to tell me. I was just telling my friend today that my STBX is too comfortable and familiar with me for someone that is supposed to be my ex. In some ways they are still trying to get their cake and eat it too. She is used to sharing with you and did so with no regard to how mixed those signals may be to you considering you are filing for D.
I am also keeping more distant. It is the only way to not get caught in the web of mixed signals. It is easier for me to not be close enough to get hurt. I have had enough of that and I'm sure you have too.
You are still going to have low days, it's part of the process. Just as long as your know that there are better days coming. Keep up the good work. Find time for some fun.
Cheers,
Karma
Oof - sorry to hear that Mozza - but consider others' perspectives on it and that may help with any sting. The job part was emotional, and I still think it was good to share in that.
This part is back to business - that's okay. If we remove the emotion. Is what she is suggesting okay for you? Would making that contact normally be something she would do? Do you both have your own L's? If so - she would contact hers and you yours presumably?? I think it's fine to clarify in pleasant terms how you expect this to work.
I think the main thing is not to react emotionally to what just happened. Just switch from 'warm congrats' to 'business' mode.....
Take care my friend xx
Thanks all. I don't think it was a calculated move on her part. It hurts because she's indifferent to me. Some of you are in screaming matches, some get the cold shoulder one year into the S. For me, she just moved on and is trying to be nice enough and get things done. There's no traction, really. So she shared her joy of having a good review because she was overwhelmed with joy and then reminded me about the D lawyer because it was on her to-do list. No link, no intention, no worries about the impact on me.
She had been uninterested in me for a while before S. It was upsetting, but part of M, I thought. She would ask a couple of polite questions, but barely react to my answer because she wasn't really listening. Also, she would bring literally everything back to herself. It was spectacular.
So I have a WW who sees her D as a solved problem, with a few steps to go through. It's not always easy, but she's not angry, sending a message or anything. She just finally found someone more compatible and life is good. I'm a good father, so everything falls into place.
This lawyer is just a replacement for the unsatisfactory mediator. It's not really an "escalation", just a continuation of the process, although to me, it does feel like an escalation. Also, we'll go for a "mutual agreement" D because otherwise I'd have to be served and the paperwork would be more expensive and take longer otherwise. At this stage, it wouldn't make a difference anyway. I'm considering telling her that I still don't agree with the D, but that I go along with this procedure because it's cheaper and simpler.
For me, she just moved on and is trying to be nice enough and get things done.
You assume she moved on, don't believe its the full case. If it helps you move forward then fine, but she could be thinking anything. My W is nice also and it makes me think shes moved on, but who to really say in the long run if they have or haven't.
So I have a WW who sees her D as a solved problem, with a few steps to go through. It's not always easy, but she's not angry, sending a message or anything. She just finally found someone more compatible and life is good. I'm a good father, so everything falls into place.
All WW's see the D as the solved problem and OM as the solution, yours is no different. You assume they are more compatible but again, in the long run when they aren't in the honeymoon phase with the chemicals driving them, who knows.
Sigh. I'm still caught in the seemingly (to me only?) contradictory signals of WW. On the one hand, she's asking about the D procedures, because the ball is in my court. And yes, I'm slow. Not really on purpose, not because I'm trying to drag things down, but simply because it is highly unpleasant and I tend to procrastinate.
On the other hand, she texts and emails me "funny stuff", like yesterday was a proof-reading of a letter from D7's camp (it was full of mistakes). Today, it's a few chosen quotes from her clients. I just don't know what to make of it or even how to react. Yesterday, I did reply and today, I can't decide. I don't even know where it leads. Normalizing the separation? For the record, she always tried to be friendly to me and I've always kept my distance. I can't say that it hurts much anymore, but it does distract me.
Yesterday, I ran into her and D7 in the street. D7 ran towards me and jumped in my arms and didn't leave them until we reached destination some 400 feet farther. She and I chatted while WW walked slightly ahead of us. D7 made me look like a good father, if anything. I was not very affected by the encounter and continued on my way to the gym without much emotion.
Sigh. I'm still caught in the seemingly (to me only?) contradictory signals of WW. On the one hand, she's asking about the D procedures, because the ball is in my court.
On the other hand, she texts and emails me "funny stuff", like yesterday was a proof-reading of a letter from D7's camp (it was full of mistakes). Today, it's a few chosen quotes from her clients. I just don't know what to make of it or even how to react. .
Mozza, I'm going to make a confession here. I'm doing the same thing. Earlier this week, STBX drove S19 to college and he called me the next day as he drove back. We talked about S19's apartment, about his roommates, about a job interview I'd been on, about the new neighbors that moved in next door to me. And we talked about the consultation I'd had with a L, and about the documents we needed to start assembling. All in the same conversation.
So although I do see where you are coming from, I also see where your W is coming from. It's fine to feel whatever you feel, that's what's authentic for you, I'm just throwing out there that I don't see those things as contradictory. It's just all part of the relationship right now, one big package.
Mozza!!
Long time no speak. I was away. trying to catch up on everyone's sitch. About the mixed messages: My W bought me a whole box of ready-to-eat quinoa salad cups this morning. WTF? Some olive branch.
And yes, I'm slow. Not really on purpose, not because I'm trying to drag things down, but simply because it is highly unpleasant and I tend to procrastinate.
This really resonates with me. I hate paperwork in general; when it is paperwork that is bringing me closer to D, I have extra incentive to avoid it and procrastinate. And for a long time, I did avoid it. Still, when I realized that a step forward in
any direction is better than the status quo, I was able to move forward with submitting my discovery paperwork and documents.
Your tendency to procrastinate may be a Mozza 180 opportunity. Not for her, but for you. Just puttin' it out there.
RAI
Hi. Hope it's ok to chime in. On the mixed signals I think this is a bit of muscle memory to a degree. You and W have a connection and that's not easy to break. I would take it as a good sign that she feels she can talk to you and relax back from anything else. I do think it's nothing more than her feeling comfortable about communicating with you and maybe that's not a bad thing
On her finding someone more compatible , I would imagine that's very hard for you to judge and again , maybe , your mind seeing what it wants to see.
I'm far from an expert and know you have been around for a while but sometimes it's much harder to view your own sitch objectively
Take care. Rd
Sigh. I'm still caught in the seemingly (to me only?) contradictory signals of WW. On the one hand, she's asking about the D procedures, because the ball is in my court. And yes, I'm slow. Not really on purpose, not because I'm trying to drag things down, but simply because it is highly unpleasant and I tend to procrastinate.
On the other hand, she texts and emails me "funny stuff", like yesterday was a proof-reading of a letter from D7's camp (it was full of mistakes). Today, it's a few chosen quotes from her clients. I just don't know what to make of it or even how to react. Yesterday, I did reply and today, I can't decide. I don't even know where it leads. Normalizing the separation? For the record, she always tried to be friendly to me and I've always kept my distance. I can't say that it hurts much anymore, but it does distract me.
Hey Mozza - I will indulge in mind reading and say , yes, indeed, she is trying to normalize the situation. And that's not really anything new, right? I recall in one of your early posts she told you that you didn't have to be "robots" with each other. I think it's pretty common (and natural) for the WAS to try an reinforce the story that this is all just normal everyday stuff.
Of all the aspects of DB, I have always found the advice to behave like a "friendly neighbor" the most difficult. I am
terrible at it. I don't ooze anger or anything and am very polite with STBX, but there is no small talk (on either side). I've tried to be better about it and it feels so forced and unnatural that I have to believe it comes across as completely inauthentic.
So- this is advice to do what I find so difficult. Keep trying. Particularly if it is about stuff to do with the kids. At the end of the day, regardless of what happens - it probably helps build a positive connection between you two - and that can't be a bad thing.
Hi Mozza,
Normalising could be one part, equally it could be a guilt reflex as in a 'you are doing OK and are friendly therefore she didn't do anything wrong because it worked out best for everyone' kind of thing.
There is no way to know, I guess as much as anything it just shows that we need to ignore the why's of their behaviour and focus on our reactions.
How's things otherwise?
Hi Mozza,
I hear you on the confusion of the mixed signals. My W is an unintentional master/mistress of mixed signals. When she sees me at work, I get a genuine smile. She likes facebook posts. And then just when I relax, she throws a curve ball.
Last couple weeks, she's lingering longer talking. She volunteers she's reading a marriage advice book I had recommended over a year ago & really likes it. She started using 'we' to talk about future projects that would be about the time she says she wants to have the D done by. DB coach is sees these as time to move the game forward a bit.
Then W asks about progress finding a mediator (I have contacts through my counseling program, and was hoping for someone to know someone they could recommend rather than the dart board method of choosing). Then meeting to finalize fall parenting schedule, I give her a couple names, but admit it isn't the kind of mediator we were looking for. W says there is no way she sees herself coming back to M, and she wants to move the legal process forward so that we can finalize the D after the school year.
Wait, what were all those positive signals???? Why the h*ll were you telling me you were reading a book about fixing marriage if you were dead set against fixing ours?
At least in my W's case, I really don't factor much in her thinking about impact of her words and actions. It's not malicious. It's just that impact on me is not something she really thinks about lately.
It's like wants to be friends, but doesn't want to actually do anything that is what friends do. Wants to keep the family together, but doesn't want to do anything as a family. Wants to be independent, but wants me to figure out if I can fix the dryer and her phone. Consistency and thoughtfulness of others (or at least me, and to a lesser extent the kids) isn't a strong suit of hers during this fun adventure.
You have a WW & mine is a WAW, but right now, we are an afterthought. We can't help but consider the impact of what we do or say on our Ws, but at best we are something they react to rather than think about. Hopefully, this will pass even if we both end up on the other side of a D, as we'll have to deal with them for a long time to come. We are also their primary attachment figure for a long time. Even while you are detaching from that person, your emotions toward them swing wildly. It is one of the traumas of detachment. We hoped they would try to repair those bonds (and they still may), but as they detach further, hopefully we'll both get a little more consideration on top of our own further detachment from them.
Good luck.
It's so nice to have you everyone to reflect on these puzzling situations. I find that I moved past the urgent need for emotional support that I had early on, but I'm still not able to see through these by myself without some external input like you all provide. Thanks for being there and taking interest.
I think you're right: there's nothing to it. She's just trying to normalize the situation. After the "funny email" mentioned above, she sent me one that was slightly more aggressive than usual, asking me why it's taking me so much time to take certain steps in the D. I ignored that question, but answered the rest about the steps we need to take.
An image came to me to illustrate how I feel about WW: A reckless driver has hit my car head-on, taking my wife and half my kids with her. She's both the driver and my passenger and, as such, both the object of my anger and sadness. I can't be asked to act normally and friendly towards the driver. I do my best to act proper, that's as far as I an go.
Interesting metaphor. Definitely appropriate and accurate.
I snapped. A little.
WW was pressuring me again to finish some research so that the D can press forward. I wrote her I had enough of being pressed and it was not helping. I wrote it was not pleasant and she replied: "Exactly. My pint of view is that our M is over, let's get the paperwork done and go forward." This was not easy to read. I had used the expression "your D" and she responded that it was also my D, regardless of what I say. That's when I snapped and wrote:
"No it's not also "my" D. You chose the S unilaterally, without a warning, without consulting me, without wanting to make any effort to avoid it, and without a credible explanation. I take my share of the blame for our relationship difficulties and there are many things I'd do differently, but I don't take the responsibility of the S and D."
She replied "As you wish, as I told you: I don't care".
We're often told here that it's useless to say those things to our WAS and for me it has always been a challenge to keep quiet, but I did it. The pressure made me snap and I felt I just had to say a few things and it would be off my mind. Well, it was not helpful to me. I'm having an awful week, crying much more than usual, even losing some sleep. I should probably have kept quiet. Maybe in a few weeks, I'll be less hurt and will be satisfied that I slipped it in there.
Hang in there, we have all made mistakes, pick urself up, dust it off and keep moving forward. Prayers sent!
I don't think it was such a mistake as you are making it out to be. It is her decision. That's the reality & she needs to understand that she has to be a bit patient.
That said, making her feel like you are still there for her if she chooses leaves her not having to feel the pain of being left by you as well as her leaving you. It is one thing to feel like you are in control & it's the other person's problem. But you moving on will still likely sting her. It has to be genuine of course. She'll see through a fake. But she's in a rush to make the pain go away. If she knows that you are moving on then it is harder to believe that the pain will stop once the D is signed.
Hang in there. No matter how much we prepare, it has to be tough to actually get to that stage.
Hi Mozza, I wouldn't worry too much. It was a bit of a truth dart really. No one little exchange ever broke or mended things - only lots of incremental things over time.
I think you should just take the time you need to do whatever you need and look after yourself in the process.
Take care xx
Hi Mozza,
It sounds like she is trying to stay on good terms. It gets confusing when it seems like you are getting sent mixed signals. You will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out her craziness.
Don't beat yourself up for speaking up. You were standing up for yourself and in MhO that's ok. Just don't over analyze it. You said your peace to help make YOU feel better. She can do what she wants with it. It was a truth dart and she may reflect on that when she is alone. I have sent my MLC ex a couple of truth dart emails. I did it for me. It did help me feel better. I was never disrespectful just direct and honest. Sometimes we have to let go of the out come and be true to ourselves.
Keep working on building a healthier happier you. Don't let her take that away from you.
cheers,
Karma
Well Mozza- I agree with everyone that your email wasn't that big of a deal. And FWIW, I think it is totally reasonable to point out that this isn't all going to happen on her preferred timeline.
Since I'm going through something similar, I'm sorry to hear about the fresh pain. It really does make one ponder.
Thanks all. I find that newcomers are always much more lenient with each other than vets will be. While I agree that this email is not a big deal, it's also a small hint that I'm the same person, resentful of her choices yet available for R. Subtle clues are easily picked up. But it's not the message i should be sending. It doesn't tell her that I'm moving on, nor that I have changed. It tells her that there's a big open door to the hell that she left, while she should feel that there is a door closing to a heaven that she shouldn't have left.
I'll simply say that it's interesting that she argues with me when I call it "her divorce" then will say that she doesn't care. I struck a nerve.
I made great progress on my share of the D procedures on Friday, with the help of my parents who were visiting. Their presence allowed me to focus. I made a few phone calls to government agencies and took notes. I don't think I'll be able to resolve all this by email with WW, mainly because it's a little complex and she is not very good with numbers. I feel good about overcoming the procrastination of the last couple of weeks.
I agree that it doesn't signal a moving on with a focus on you that is probably healthier for you and best for the prospects of the R. That said, it was a one time incident, and your pattern of actions will speak much more loudly than the e-mail.
So, how do you think you can shift your focus to your path in a way that signals to her that you accept her path and are moving ahead w/ or wo/ her better? Again, it has to be genuine. And you are already doing some things along these lines. But to really show that the pressure and pursuit are off probably requires looking at what you are still doing that undermines that message & what you could change to really turn towards yourself in a way that she sees and feels that you're moving ahead? Only then can she maybe relax a bit herself and also perhaps feel a bit of worry that the loss is hers not yours.
We all have worked on GAL & detaching, but there really seems to need to be a further shift in attitude and focus that comes long after we think we've done the work to stop pursuing. I've seen it in so many threads here, where someone finally just gets to that point where they truly accept that this needs to be about them and that they are truly done w/ fixing the R unless a significant change happens in the WAS. Not that they close the door totally, but that maybe shut the storm door while leaving the inner door unlocked. I know that when I had that turn, I was amazed at how much I was still pursuing and keeping the pressure on by focusing on her and our R. I was still wanting to figure out how to change the dynamic so that she would return. It was when I dropped that rope that I saw that I only thought I had really stopped the pursuit.
So again, you are doing a lot of good work (and forget about the e-mail as it is in the past now), but what are you going to do to take the next step of really, really embracing your life and remove your focus on her & the R?
p.s., I just noticed that this was my 777 post. Hopefully it will be a lucky one.
Hi Mozza, just read your post on Raliced's threat about wanting to be better than OM. While I can relate to that, please remember you are the father to these 2 little girls who adore you and also the man she chose to be the father to them. He can never compete with that. His desire to be better than you is probably much greater than yours.
Also, you haven't given any dating updates recently - please do so!
I agree with what you are saying Mozza. I think the difference in my thinking now is I was treated very badly by my ex. He betrayed the only person who stood by him through many of his own personal life stresses. It should be him wanting to show me that life with him would be different and not the other way around.
Once you don't care so much about the out come it can be liberating.
Cheers,
Karma
Quick journaling, just because.
I met WW at a school event last Thursday and she told me she's moving to a new apartment, one block from her current apartment. This one is freshly renovated and more comfy than what they have now. She sees it as something "more permanent". I didn't like hearing this, obviously. Also, D3 and D7 will each have a room, which is new. I told her I would have liked to talk about it with her first because we always meant for them to share a room for a while. I'm a little concerned that D7 will like it less here, sharing her room. Apparently, she's excited about having her own room. The move was last week-end.
I went to my half-brother's wedding on Saturday. Quite a beautiful, small (50 people) wedding at a hotel on a golf course. I had a good time. I wasn't as sad as one may think. During the vows and such, I felt numb. I wasn't really happy for him, nor sad for myself. Just unsure anymore of what these things mean. It seemed like he was petting a tiger: looks amazing, but dangerous.
This is the one-year anniversary of the D@mned Week, between the day where WW uttered the S word for the first time (Sept 4) and the day when I acknowledged that I couldn't keep her (Sept 11). I'm not so bad, although dates matter to me, so I've been thinking much about it.
Yesterday, I pulled frames from a moving box and it was full of our family, couple and wedding pictures. I had a small decoration project so I took out all the pictures from the frames. Again, it wasn't so hard: I was numb. Towards the end, it became a bit much, all these pictures, and I decided to power through the exercise, for fear that I'd never be able to get back to it. All the mismatched frames are on the wall, stripped of their old pictures (replaced with pink paper, for the decorators amongst you).
I've been very productive at work and home recently. This was one of my recent goals and I'm glad to see it happening with such momentum, finally. I've done many things that I had set aside for months or even years, like this decoration project.
Thanks all for your input and support. I mean to get back to your recent messages.
Hey Mozza,
Don't worry too much about the sleeping arrangements - even if your kids like having their own room. Siblings need closeness now especially. Sharing a room will help with that. You can always spin it as it being much cozier to share. My boys have a secret bed-time routine. I have no idea what they say to each other, but it is something special. These are memories they will have forever. Also, there is something at your pad, that your WW will never be able to match - you!
RAI
It was my antiversary yesterday and the first few hours weren't easy. I was quite emotional about dropping off the kids at school for the week. I didn't like the symbol of my failed marriage and my part-time parenting. I've never thought it would be me and sometimes I still have a hard time accepting that it is my life. I went back at lunch time to drop some stuff for D7 and held them both in my arms. D3 asked why I had tears in my eyes and I eluded the question. The afternoon and evening were better, but my productive streak is over.
WW kindly wrote me on that important day to tell me that... they hired a hot new secretary at their office that looks like Joan Holloway (Christina Hendricks in Mad Men). I replied with a video of said character who tries to adapt to modern technology. My thought was more wondering if OM would go after her, like he went after WW when she joined the office...
I've been thinking a lot about writing a letter to WW, without even sending it, but strangely, I lose interest as soon as I sit in front of my computer. It spins in my head, sometimes obsessively, yet it bores me when it's time to actually do it. Oh well.
Still dragging my feet on the D paperwork. I should really get to it next week. Sigh.
Sounds like you're having a rough week Mozza. So sorry to hear it. I totally get how you snapped and sent that email. I have been tempted to do something similar SO many times, but then I start thinking about the likely reaction, and restrain myself. You got the exact reaction that I imagine my own WW giving - she just doesn't care.
I really hate to see your sitch progressing this way, because it is so similar to mine, and you are a few months further out. Unfortunately, I imagine myself being exactly where you are in the near future, although I suspect that I may end up being the one to finally file for D. I decided I just don't have it in me to hang on for years and years, while WW openly lives with OM. Yes, it's hard to let go, but eventually, we need to claim back our dignity and self-respect. You don't deserve to be treated this way.
Take pride in the fact that you are a great father, and have been a source of inspiration on these boards for months. I'll be following your sitch closely and hoping that things turn out great for you, regardless of what your misguided WW ends up doing.
Hey Mozza,
Don't worry too much about the sleeping arrangements - even if your kids like having their own room. Siblings need closeness now especially. Sharing a room will help with that. You can always spin it as it being much cozier to share.
RAI
This post left me worrying.
My W is moving out 1st October to her new place and one of advantages of this new place she sold to the kids is that each one of them will have his own room.
Now that I think about it, they have never slept in a separate bedroom.
Half an hour ago I tucked in S7 and he was fighting the sleep because his brother is downstairs sleeping with the neighbours and the mother was also downstairs telling the landlord she is moving out. He kept asking for them, especially for the mother.
It was my antiversary yesterday and the first few hours weren't easy. I was quite emotional about dropping off the kids at school for the week. I didn't like the symbol of my failed marriage and my part-time parenting. I've never thought it would be me and sometimes I still have a hard time accepting that it is my life. I went back at lunch time to drop some stuff for D7 and held them both in my arms. D3 asked why I had tears in my eyes and I eluded the question. The afternoon and evening were better, but my productive streak is over.
WW kindly wrote me on that important day to tell me that... they hired a hot new secretary at their office that looks like Joan Holloway (Christina Hendricks in Mad Men). I replied with a video of said character who tries to adapt to modern technology. My thought was more wondering if OM would go after her, like he went after WW when she joined the office...
I've been thinking a lot about writing a letter to WW, without even sending it, but strangely, I lose interest as soon as I sit in front of my computer. It spins in my head, sometimes obsessively, yet it bores me when it's time to actually do it. Oh well.
Still dragging my feet on the D paperwork. I should really get to it next week. Sigh.
Sorry you are struggling w/ the memories the Anniversary triggers. I'd just tell your kids that you are sad that you don't get to spend more time with them because they are so special to you, and that love them so much. Make it a moment to strengthen your bond with them. It is what you are feeling in a significant way, so share it with them.
Maybe you should ask WW for an intro to the new secretary. Just saying...
Quick question: Are you guys paying for the D proceedings? We'll have a bill of about $1200 from the lawyer and I'm now wondering why exactly I should pay half of this D that I never wanted. It seems inflammatory though to announce that I'm not paying half.
Oh and I finally finished my research for the D paperwork! I had been procrastinating for about two months. Sent a massive email to WW yesterday, detailing the outcomes and the decisions we need to make. I kind of hope the ball will stay in her court for a few days...
Mozza- I did tell STBX that since the divorce was his idea he needed to pay for it, and he agreed, out of guilt, I suppose. Legally - I couldn't have made that stick. That being said, there are certainly still some things I've ended up paying for (court filing fees - process server, etc).
Quick question: Are you guys paying for the D proceedings? We'll have a bill of about $1200 from the lawyer and I'm now wondering why exactly I should pay half of this D that I never wanted. It seems inflammatory though to announce that I'm not paying half.
STBX has agreed to pay all the legal fees out of his half after division. I had discussed this with my L and he felt it was a reasonable request considering the disparity in our income. However, what I said to STBX was, "You want it, you pay for it." He agreed.
I have deducted it from the amount I owed WH. Since I settle with him I just took the cash.
I am the one who filed, he was the one who wasn't committed to his M.
V
Mza
You are quiet, a quiet Mza,????
A little oxymoron.
V
Haha! Thanks for waking me up, Vanilla. You're right, I've been very quiet in the last few weeks. I keep following a few people though. I should come here more often for advice though.
For instance, yesterday WW asked me for the kids' warmer coats that are at my place. I told her that I'd put them in a bag in the backyard but she asked me to drop them at her place instead (10 minutes away) because she didn't feel like coming to my place another time (she came twice this week, but we go months without such visits). I didn't know what to do because I didn't want to go to her place, to be at her service, and it took me some 30-40 minutes to respond no. She was not happy and did something she'd do in the relationship, which is to elevate any slight into a general principle, as form of retaliation threat: "So now we don't help each other out anymore? Just to clarify" Argh! Sometimes it's good to be reminded of an ex' shortcomings to miss them a little less... I've been SO helpful with her since the S, without a complain. Just this week, I'll take D4 on Wednesday because school's off, even though it's not my week. Later this month, I also keep the kids for a weekend while she goes on vacation. Also a bad habit of hers: this is all forgotten when she feels slighted.
It hurt me quite a bit that she would say that I don't want to help as soon as I don't do as she wishes. I make such efforts to keep everything cordial, not sharing my pain, anger (wrath!), love, memories and whatnot in a full year. Writing it here makes me realize that this is typical WW behavior and that I shouldn't let it affect me so much. By the way, 30 hours later, the bag of coats is still in the backyard...
I have some delight when I think that OM will have, sooner or later if he hasn't already, to deal with these same behaviors. Oh, I will have to deal with the shortcomings of my next partner, but I take some comfort in the thought that life catches up with them, as I mentioned a few times.
PMA report | I got confirmation that GAL is majorly important to keep up the PMA. On my antiversary, I stayed home for two days and it was awful. This weekend, without the kids, I don't have many plans and it's also hurting. But of course, in general, one year on, my pain is nowhere near BD levels. The WW interactions of yesterday derailed my day, but today is better. Things were better before the antiversary. One thing I didn't expect is that now I'm reliving the Apocalyptic Year: first birthday alone, first Christmas alone, etc.
Dating report | I'm not sure what is relevant to report here, but I'm dating and it's working as expected. Maybe one myth I'd like to dispel is that I'm all about dating and that I press it on people here. It probably comes from the fact that I've suggested it to some people who said they weren't ready. What I'm about is being honest with oneself and sometimes, the reasons people give seem like excuses to avoid facing deeper realities. It would not be surprising that people like us, who are so devastated by an S, are not comfortable meeting people. It is certainly my case. But I would apply the principle to topics other than dating if I came across. I think I was like this very much with Barry for instance, and not about dating.
IC report | I still see my IC, one year in and I feel it's still helpful. My biggest issue is still to acknowledge my preferences and desires and then to have the courage to fulfill them. My IC observed that I take for granted that I won't have what I want, that it would be too good to be true, so I settle. He spoke of people who are the opposite, who feel everything is owed to them. It's all very thought-provoking. Anyway, don't be surprised if you hear in the news that I've proposed to Scarlett Johansson because I'm going for it!
D Report | I've finally done the research and paperwork on which I procrastinated for some two months. What a relief! Right now, we're waiting for some letters from the government. WW is still as confused and botchy as before and trying to delegate the D to me, but I resisted, going as far as writing her "I feel that you're trying to burden me with the heavy lifting for a D that you have brought upon us." I think she got the message, though I don't expect her nature to change, so it will come back.
Regarding the cost-sharing, you guys are not making it any easier! I had pretty much decided to share evenly with her, if only to avoid poisoning the relationship over a few hundred dollars. Part of me wants to ask her: "Why exactly am I paying for this D that I didn't want?" if only to make her think about it.
Work report | This is where I've made the most progress in the last two months. I've reached levels of productivity that are very near pre-BD. I love my job, always have, and now I feel more capable of focusing on it, planning for it, following up. There are a lot of prospective clients on my radar. It's all very exciting.
Regarding the cost-sharing, you guys are not making it any easier! I had pretty much decided to share evenly with her, if only to avoid poisoning the relationship over a few hundred dollars. Part of me wants to ask her: "Why exactly am I paying for this D that I didn't want?" if only to make her think about it
Mozza, thanks for the update. As far as cost-sharing, if it makes you feel any better at all, I probably would have let it go if we were talking a few hundred dollars. You are correct that money is not worth ruining your co-parenting relationship over. In my case, "my half" of the legal fees would have been a really significant portion of my yearly income, STBX makes multiples of what I do, and, most importantly, he agreed to pay it.
Can you post the coats?
You probably have deadlock over the poor old coats.
Silly thing to take a stance over, coats. So be it. Your WW has real entitlement.
I would just post them.
V
She never came to get the coats and asked me to drop them off at school. Oh well.
Allow me to indulge in a bit of schadenfreude. WW wanted cats, but having experience with them, I was reluctant knowing how much maintenance they require and that WW was lazy-ish on such obligations. A couple of weeks ago, she told me she'd get cats (new life! be herself!). She gave a pic of the cats to the kids and D7 couldn't stop talking about them. I was a little sad, feeling that I had been the killjoy in the R, that indeed WW could finally do what brings her joy far away from me, etc. Plus, the kids would have a blast with the cats at mommy's place.
I spoke to D7 briefly yesterday. Turns out that WW is returning the cats after less than a week. They made too much damage into her apartment already. D7 told me tales of a cat that doesn't want to be touched, that hide, etc.
I'm ashamed to say I was pleased. Mostly, it proved me right for being the reasonable one in the couple on this issue... and maybe others. Oh, I don't think WW will see it this way, but I do.
It was the wrong cat
Cats choose their servants.
V
I've been thinking a lot about writing a letter to WW, without even sending it, but strangely, I lose interest as soon as I sit in front of my computer. It spins in my head, sometimes obsessively, yet it bores me when it's time to actually do it. Oh well.
Mozza - I've caught up on your situation. This quote caught me. As someone who has felt this way for a very long time. You should go back and re-read some of your posts that you wrote to me during my struggle.
Writing a letter appeals to many people and for different reasons. Its appealed to me multiple times and often obsessively (as you have mentioned). My reasons for writing has changed multiple times throughout the journey. In the beginning, I wanted to make an impact, or be heard (ultimately to change her mind). And even now I still have an urge and believe I will, to try and bridge the gap of our communication (very similar to Crimson and his story).
I have to admit even now, I still think of writing a letter and including the contradictions, statistics, the things I learned, her negative contributions, lack of remorse, and her passiveness. But I won't. What I need to do is work on forgiving and letting go of that piece of the puzzle.
My two cents. Good luck.
Vanilla: Haha! Always the right word.
mahhhty! Long time no see. Thanks for stopping by. I guess one of the things that keep me from writing that letter is that it won't ever get through to her. Yet, today I had another inner monologue for her. I see one point at which she will listen to me: when she'll need something important from me, like moving to her country. That will be my opening to make her understand what she put me through. I'm not sure it matters, I don't even know if I'll feel like it at that time.
I was hearing parents argue with their little kids yesterday and they kept on talking over their kids to calm them down and, as an external observer, I kept thinking: "Shut up, your kid wants to be heard, not talked to." I think there's a lesson there for the letter-writers like me.
I heard yesterday that OM will accompany WW on a trip halfway around the world with her mom to see the MIL's home country. I've never been invited to go there. It stung a little and, like an old scent, reminded me of feelings past. But it went away almost immediately. I realized that while I envy the privilege, I don't envy the experience all that much.
As it's been for almost a year, I sense growing the idea that a R would simply not be good for me. I feel stronger than ever in this opinion. I've been through the meat grinder in the last year and getting back with her would almost certainly be lining up for another round a few years down the road. She cheated on me twice, left me without a warning and a look back, has always been this impulsive and even disloyal to her friends. It's not an exception, it's who she is. I bet on the wrong horse, that's all. I should cut my losses and move on. But then, the kids... OK, back to not thinking about a question that isn't asked.
My kids have been mentioning the S lately. D7 aked me out of the blue while I left her mom. I replied that I did not, that her mom left me. She paused and ask why she did. I said I didn't know. That's all I could come up with on the spot and it's half true and the other half is just too complicated to explain to her, not to mention that it might come out wrong.
D4 said that she wanted me and her mom together. She loves both of us a lot and seems to wonder why is it that she can only see one of us at a time. She practically never mentions OM. I kind of wonder what places he occupies in their lives. I find it strange that he goes unmentioned.
Last Wednesday, it was not my week, but I "babysat" them all day because of a strike at school (and WW didn't want to miss work; she never does). We had a blast. I wanted a full day and it was: we prepared sushi and sangria, went grocery shopping, did some craft, sang and danced, called my parents, cleaned a bit around the house. This week-end, we went to Six Flags, and then picking apples with friends. We always do lots together and I love it. I asked D7 what they do with their mom and she said "nothing". Part of me is happy to be a bright spot in their week, but another part wishes that they had a full life on both sides.
This post makes me happy, and it should make you happy too.
Mozza, my man.... you are truly a great father.
GB posted on my thread awhile ago, about kids as they grow older. And two things have stuck with me, which are very appropriate.
1) Remember whatever conversations they are having with you. They are having with her. She is shifting and wriggling under the pressure of their questions and either lying or getting nailed with truth darts.
2) They are going to have more of a decision on where they go and why as they get older. Be the rock. Be the lighthouse. Oh wait... you already are! And for that reason is why you are a great father.
D4 said that she wanted me and her mom together. She loves both of us a lot and seems to wonder why is it that she can only see one of us at a time. She practically never mentions OM. I kind of wonder what places he occupies in their lives. I find it strange that he goes unmentioned.
Mozza, FWIW- When D4 was 3 she would occasionally babble about OW - but not very often. D7
never spoke about her, unless responding to a direct question that I had asked. Maybe its just how kids are, but I tend to think we somehow give off vibes that we're not fans of the affair partner - and they are quick to pick up on that.
Lately D4 likes to call out all of our names and finish with some commentary, all while sporting a huge smile. "Mommy, Daddy, D7 and me! And we're a fam-i-ly". My heart contracts a little every time.
My kids have been mentioning the S lately. D7 aked me out of the blue while I left her mom. I replied that I did not, that her mom left me. She paused and ask why she did. I said I didn't know. That's all I could come up with on the spot and it's half true and the other half is just too complicated to explain to her, not to mention that it might come out wrong.
Mozza, I am facing the same situation and questions by my kids.
The other day, STBXW talked about an issue that has been deeply disturbing and upsetting her.
We told the kids about the divorce using MWD advise, as I told
here. Since then, the kids have been asking me why don't I like their mother anymore and why don't I want to be together with her. I have given them an honest answer: I still like their mother and I would like for us to be together.
The kids then asked why we are separating but we have told them this is mum's and dad's business.
Obviously the kids now know it's the mother who wants the divorce and have been questioning her about this. S9 asked her: "why do you want to separate from dad?" and S7 answered instead: "because she doesn't like dad anymore."
This has profoundly affected STBXW, so she asked me what should we tell them. I answered we had agreed the motives were private and we would not discuss them with the kids.
She insisted we had to find a way to tell the kids it was not her fault and again I told her we should not discuss responsibilities with the kids. STBXW insisted once more.
Obviously she starts to be confronted with the consequences of her decision and is not liking them.
She fails to see we both are guilty for the marital crisis (I have told her I assume my share in that guilt) but she is the only one responsible for the divorce.
I hope its ok that I bump up this thread, needed to think about success stories today and I am sure I am not the only one. Having a sad day.
It's been over a month and I've been meaning to give an update for a while.
I have turned 40 in the meantime and my gift to myself was my D. I wanted to move on, to accept the reality and no longer look back at WW and R as an option. Indeed, I no longer want to reconcile. The idea has been with me almost since the beginning of BD, growing slowly but surely: WW cheated on me once and threatened to leave after 5 years and one kid, then five years and one more kid later, she ran away with a colleague she met a month earlier. I cannot ignore this fact in my assessment of her. Before that, I wanted to spend my life with her. After that, she was a different person.
I'm not proud of the husband I was. Maybe I was worse than average, maybe not, but for sure I was not good enough for her. I could have done better, but I didn't. And she left. She had lost interest in me earlier than that and it was very painful to me, and a source of arguments. She's gone now and looking back is no longer helping me.
In every other aspects of my life, I'm going through a golden age. Everything about my life is right. All my family and friends are healthy and in good situations. So am I: no health issues, a job I love and plenty of work and income. I've never been this close to my kids and parents. I live near them, I love my apartment, and I enjoy dating, even though I haven't met anyone I'd consider as a new life partner. I am in better shape than ever. I could go on.
A few things have brought me there, just before my birthday.
I saw a man on a bike with a leg prosthesis.
I read Norah Ephron who said "My divorce lasted longer than my marriage. It's enough."
I re-heard a bit from comedian Mike Birbiglia who tells how he got involved in a car with a drunk driver who rammed his car. Because of a mistake in the police report, the insurance wanted him to pay $12,000 to the drunk driver. He calls the police to get the report revised and when he finally talks to the captain, he's told «You made a bad turn, now do the right thing, and pay for the guy's car.» He's outraged, of course, and becomes consumed in a fight for justice, so much that his friends avoid him because that's all he talks about. One night, he's on a date with his girlfriend, writing ideas about the case when she says to him: "I don't know what to tell you. You're right, but it's hurting you." And so he paid and moved on.
There has been a few more things, and I was finally ready to hear them. Like the amputee on a bike, it might not be what I wanted, but I can still live a full life. Like Norah Ephron, I can choose to move on before it consumes too much of my life. Like Mike Birbiglia, perhaps I'm right but it doesn't matter: Do I want to be right or happy?
Another thing stuck with me recently: a good friend full of wisdom remarked that I should want WW to be happy otherwise there will be hell to pay for me. If she loses her boyfriend, her job, her health or whatever, it won't be good for me. I still resent her too much for what she's done, but that is my next step, the place where I'm heading my ship.
Then my goal will be to move past my victim status. I don't want to be marked by this D. I don't want to be the guy who's carrying this burden, who can't trust, who's sad underneath. I want to be as whole as I was before it happened.
Most will not see this as a success story because I did not R. But if our primary goal is to save ourselves, than I am a success story. DBing has helped me tremendously to get through the worst period of my life and doing the right thing. I'm proud of how I behaved myself during that horrible year. I'm proud of how I acted with my WW and my kids and with myself. If I had one thing to change, I would be less open to so many people about my relationship with WW. I confided in too many people, but then again, this is not a big regret. I don't know if I can say that this is the end of DBing, given that I've always seen it as a good way to live my life, R or not. Many things are now a normal part of my life, especially doing things for myself and not for WW. I speak with my actions, with her as in the rest of my life. I'm immensely grateful I found this community: it was the only place I met people who were going through the same thing.
I'll probably stick around to read about a few people's lives and perhaps to give an update every now and then. I want to say an immense thank you to all of you, the vets and the newbies, for being a special part of my life at a moment where I needed it most.
Mozza, I am happy for you. Thank you for the update. I do see your story as a success, you are an inspiration to me and to many others, I am sure. Thank you. And Happy Birthday!
A Beautiful post. A testament to you Mozza, but also to the power of this community. Thank you for popping by. You were one of the first people to welcome me here. Thank you. A BUMP for this important post.
Much Love JellyBXXX
Mozza, I'm so glad to read of how well you are doing. There is much wisdom in your post above. I was interested in your comment about the guy with the prosthetic leg. My signature line was written by a guy who also lost a limb - but found himself. I think that sometimes happens when we lose the 'marriage limb.'
I'm with you on the desire to wish your XW well. There was a long discussion on Caliguy's thread in MLC about forgiveness, which you may find interesting.
Thanks for coming back to update and good luck with everything xx
I'm proud of you, Moz. Good luck to you, you sound like you are in a really good place
Most will not see this as a success story because I did not R
OMG Mozz! What on earth are you talking about?? I can't speak for everyone, but to anyone in the DB community, you are a HUGE TREMENDOUS SUCCESS!! You post is proof of that. You have reinvented yourself and emerged as a super person with your sanity intact. You have gone through the crucible and came out as pure silver.
Thanks for being there when I needed it. Much success to you.
RAI
Thanks everyone. I'm very happy to hear that so many of you see the success in this. If we think that our only option in life is to be with a specific person, then we have a problem. I very much wanted to be with WW, but I've adapted to the circumstances and now I don't want to be with her anymore. On the other hand, I'll be with myself forever, so I better nourish this relationship.
I don't hang out much around here over the Holidays because I remember the pain that they bring. I'm sorry I can't be of more support. What I can say is what you already know: it gets better. These are my second Holidays and I haven't had any overwhelming sadness. A pinch here and there, but really not much. No crying at all. I remember that it didn't bring me much solace to know this, so I'll just stop here, and tell all of you that I think about you and your legitimate sorrow. May it get better sooner than later.
I will no longer update the success stories. I don't spend enough time around here to keep on top of them, although I'm sure they keep on happening. Also, they are quite a bit of work to put together and even to update. I hope some of the moderators will consider recycling or updating them. My next conversation will be in the "Surviving the Big D" forum.
It's great to see some success stories!
Oct 14-28, 2014 | W cheating and near-separation in 2009, search for explanations for BD 2014
Oct 28-Nov 4 | OM confirmed through kids on Halloween, refocus on me rather than blaming W
Nov 4-10 | OM confirmed by W in email, strollergate, W has problems at work, unexpected blind date
Nov 10-18 | Lunch with W went well, reflections on being dumped, kids and OM
Nov 18-Dec 8 | W warms up but OM set to move in in January, W's birthday email
Dec 8-Jan 2, 2015 | To be nice or not to be, two trips make me feel better, office party video
Jan 2-16 | Turning down lunch invite, telling W I need to move on, W emails about D
Jan 16-31 | WAW wants to change job, move to her country, I agree to meet
Feb 2-25 | Plans for moving abroad are nixed, D papers are delayed at my request, flirting experiments begin
Feb 27-Mar 24 | D7 birthday plans, PMA crash, serial cheating, dating debate, detachment at last?
Mar 24-Apr 29 | Great dating debate, the expensive watch, GALing better, my tone on these forums
May 5-Jun 17 | Online dating, crying at the school play, genetics of cheating, mediation begins
My storyAfter 9.5 years together and two kids, my W announced in early September 2014 that she wanted a separation. A week of pleading and begging didn't change a thing. She said she wanted to be free, alone, find her true self, that I was criticizing her too much, that we're incompatible, that she was unhappy and no longer in love with me and she didn't want to live with half-emotions. She had told me before of some of those
complaints and that she was
miserable. We had not yet addressed everything, we would fight more than average, and I wasn't changing fast enough, so she was growing hopeless that things would improve.
A week after BD, she moved out. A month and a half later, she confirmed my suspicions that she was with a coworker, met at the new job she started a month before BD. He moved in with her in January. Our two daughters know and like him enough and generally take the S in strides.
DBingI accept responsibility for what I did in the M, by being too critical and dismissive of my W's feelings. I understand that my W was looking for something she wasn't finding in the M. I sometimes understand why she left, since she was miserable, and sometimes think leaving was too strong a reaction for the situation. I tend to blame her flight reflex and unrealistic expectations for love and family life. My heart wants to R, but my head tells me that it's a pattern with her and that I better not expose myself to it again.
My stance at the moment is to let her live her life while I reflect and try to focus on me. In January, I told her I didn't want to interact beyond the practicalities of the kids because I need to move on. I'm good at being silent and distant so the "no pursuing" rule is easy to apply for me. After nine months and little contact, I can say that detachment is taking hold. I see a therapist since BD and I've also started dating in May (8 months after BD).
_________________________________________________
SUCCESS STORIESI update this list every time I start a new thread.
Please make suggestions, especially with links to threads. I wish we had room in our profile to tell our story so that the vets and other successes could give us a quick summary.
ReconciliationThornton (M) -
May to July 2014 Train (W) -
Reconciled in 2014 Labug (W) -
March 2011 to December 2013 HopefulStill - reconciled in 2012
minkerman (M) -
Reconciled after 4 months in 2008 25yearsmlc (W) -
2005 to August 2008FaithfulH -
Reconciled in 2007 sandi2 (W) -
2007Coach (M) -
2008MrBond (M) - Used to have another screen name
Starsky309 (M) - (
ChocolateEyes,
Puppy Dog Tails) -
Aug 2007 to 2009. Exposed his W's A.
Butterflymom127 and FavoriteWeirdo -
Thread LITB (M) -
December 2010 to May 2012Raine (W) -
Dec 2012 to November 2014 (MLC) ReachingHigher (W) -
April 2012 to May 2014SM34 (M) -
December 2012 to December 2013 AliSuddenly (W) -
H left in January 2008, moved out, had OW. Piecing May 2009, married July 2010 kalni (W) -
BD on November 2007, piecing in January 2010Angel61 (W)-
BD June 2010, H had EA, Retrouvailles November 2011Piecing as of 2014-2015(newly added) Kramer (M)(newly added) edz (M)Jefe (M)T0324 (W) H leaves in Febr 2014, filed for D, had OW, piecing fails in Aug 2014, piecing again in Mar 2015
Crimson (M) Heart14 (W) Signs 2014-02, DB 2014-07, Piecing since 2014-07
Nitty - BD in December 2013, piecing as of September 2014
Letting goLove2Surf (M) -
March 2010 to 2012pearlharbr (W) -
November 2008 to June 2010 (19 months) Snow White (W) -
2008-2009. Let go when her H wanted back in.
Drew (M) -
2008BigMac (M) -
June 2014 to February 2015 WAW offered R at the last minute and he turned it down
Underdog (Betsey) D final in May 2005
ResourcesValidation |
Boundaries |
Detachment |
Dance of Pursuit and Distance |
Acronyms |
Stockdale paradoxThe sandi2 collection:
The Wayward Wife |
It takes time |
Letting back too easyWonka:
The Starter kit / Post-BD plan of action These are some great items to sift through. I'll be looking at these stories shortly