Hi All,
I'm a 39 year old married male. My wife & I met 19 years ago & fell madly in love. We married 13 years ago and had an amazing relationship up until Sept 2014. It first started in July'14 when I began too notice she was pulling away & becoming distant. She was not interested in having sex with me & just seemed unhappy in general.
I kept asking if everything was OK & she kept telling me it was, however in Sept '14 she finally came out & told me that she wasn't in love with me anymore, or should I say she loved me but had lost all intimate feelings towards me.
Like many others we had a great sex life to start with & even up until May or June of last year we would engage 1 or 2 times a week. Now we haven't been " truly intimate" since Sept 2014.
She agreed to go see a counsellor on her own & began doing so in Oct. but it didn't seem that she was making progress. At the start of Jan '15 I offered to start going with her, which we did, but after just one couples session she said she had "no hope" & thought that "counselling was just a means to an end."
Then at the end of Jan '15 I found out she was having an affair with someone from her past. She says it wasn't a physical affair but an emotional one, all intimate acts were done through texting etc. She said it had been going on since Nov '14. As soon as I found out about it I asked her to leave. She promised that she would never communicate with this person again but agreed that some time apart may help. She also told me that 'he' was not the reason for the change in her feelings, that the change came about before she started communicating with him. She said her confusion caused her to reach out & in doing so she found an emotional connection with him.
After she left we still had daily communication & even saw each other on a weekly basis for a few hours at a time, but things were definitely strained. She spent some weekends back home (in a different town) at her parents place, which also happens to be where this other person lives, BUT she's told me over & over again that she's never seen him & never communicated with him.
We lived apart for about 2 months & had planned on keeping it that way. However, one night in March after she returned from a weekend stay back home we decided to get together for dinner, long story short, I found out that she had communicated with 'him' again & I lost my mind. We had an all out yelling match, which is an EXTREME rarity for me. By the end of the blow out she was begging me to let her come home & was scared that we were finished for good. She said it was the first time she had communicated with him since Jan. After I calmed down & we had a real heart to heart talk I agreed to let her move back in.
Things actually seemed better, immediately we were laughing more, things seemed a little more at ease, we began seeing a different couples counsellor(we still are)and things slowly began to progress in the intimacy dept. By "progress" I mean some kissing & cuddling.
In March she went home again, it was a trip she had booked before we agreed to move back in together. When she returned I found a map to his place on her phone, she swears she just drove by his place, nothing more. Once again she begged me to forgive her, swore she hadn't communicated with him or seen him. She said if she was talking with him why wouldn't he have simply given her directions, why would she need a map? She said she's not sure why she felt inclined to drive by & that it was simply a dumb mistake.Once again I forgave her for her "mistake" & once again her affection towards me seemed to increase.
Another 2 months has past & I am trying to get over all the secrets & lies, but I have to admit I'm still struggling. We are still at the same stage in the bedroom which is kissing & snuggling, but that's as far as she's willing to go. She says she worries that if we try anything & things don't go well it'll just make our relationship worse. She worries she's not going to feel what she's suppose to feel. I think she's already convinced herself that whatever we try will end up being a total disaster. I'm not sure how she can overcome these concerns & I question whether she really wants too? Sometimes I wonder if she would keep things exactly as they currently are if she could. She is constantly telling me how much she loves me & that she can't imagine her life without me, but she's not sure how or if she can get those feelings back that will allow her to take things further.
She also says she still has sexual feelings & sex still interests her, so I assume it's not low libido.
My questions are:
(a) am I a fool for believing her & accepting that she's been/being faithful
(b)Is there anything we can try to help her get over her insecurities, or is it likely she doesn't want too?
(c) is it odd that her affection level increases (even temporarily) after we have a blow out?
Thanks for listening to my rant & thanks in advance for any and all advice!!
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I don't think your crazy for accepting that she has been unfaithful. Insecurities probably caused her to make that mistake. Please don't feel like a fool for loving your wife.
Will she talk to a therapist?
Thank you for the quick replies.
She & I are both seeing a therapist or are you asking if she's willing to go back and see someone on her own?
Hi 76, welcome to this forum. Sorry you are here but you will find lots of people who understand what you are going through.
Your story sounds like a struggle. It must have been so difficult for you.
Of course it is hard to say just reading your account but it does sound like more is going on than your wife is telling you. Is she still having an affair with this guy? Is she being honest? If she's not actually in contact with him, is she still obsessed with him? I'm afraid the answer to the last question at least is yes, probably.
Is it odd that she is more affectionate after a blow out? No. She is afraid to be without you. But she isn't able to/doesn't want to give you what you need either.
Like all the vets tell the newbies on here, the best thing you can do now is focus on YOU. Forget her and her struggles and your relationship problems for now and start looking at yourself. What about yourself can you improve?
- Is there something that you've always wanted to improve about yourself?
- What does your wife complain about that you do or don't do? Can you work on changing without talking about it? (do the laundry, clean the house, make dinner, make more money, be on time... whatever it might be)
- Are there hobbies or interests you've always wanted to take up? Or something you love that you stopped doing? (sports, art, activities, friends.. anything)
If she's in the midst of an affair, whether physical or emotional, she's going to have to decide to get over it on her own. The more you try to get in the middle of it while being there for her, the worse it will be. It sounds like she doesn't want to lose you or is simply afraid to be on her own. She's going to have to realize eventually that she has to be 100% in the relationship or she will lose you. The best way you can get that realization rolling is to focus on YOU.
Good luck my friend! Keep us updated.
Hugs, Lisa
Hi Lisa,
Thank you for your reply and honesty!
As far as I know the affair has ended, she says she hasn't had any contact with him and she seems to be a bit more at ease around me. I can only hope she is being honest. like I mentioned previously, I've caught her in a few lies and now I am sceptical and somewhat suspicious of what she might be up to. I think I'll take your advice and simply worry about myself for a change.
There are lots of things I'd like to get involved in again, sports I haven't played in a long time. I was thinking of volunteering at a local animal shelter, something I've really enjoyed in the past.
i think I've always done a pretty good job helping out around the house, in fact it seems that those household duties have become even more of my responsibility. The one thing that I don't feel I do enough of is helping with the meals, maybe something I should start to experiment with!
Thank you again!
Hello again,
I created my first post here yesterday (Newbie. First time post. My story & questions) and had a few great responses. I want to start by saying "Thanks"
I read over the "Sandi's 37 rules" that Cadet recommended and there are definitely lots of good tips in there. But, I'm a little confused as to which steps I should follow & which one's I'm ok to avoid, if any?
It's taken me almost a year to realize that I need to start thinking about "me" & taking care of myself first. In reading over the list I've found that I have been doing a ton of things that are recommended I avoid. i.e I've been showering her with gifts, talking about the future, following her around like a puppy, constantly texting with her, keeping conversations going, stressing when I think she's in a negative mood, snooping for clues....the list goes on & on. This is one area I'm going to make a point of checking myself on!
Here's where my confusion lies...I feel my W & I are in a better place than we were 1 year ago or even 3-4 months ago, we are in couples counselling & seem to be making progress. I'm trying to figure out which of the 37 rules I should try & which ones I'm ok to steer clear of!?!
Our counsellor has just started giving us "homework" to help reintroduce intimacy into our relationship. My W has been in the ILYBNILWY mode & I still worry that I will get stuck in the "friend zone". It seems like she constantly needs a nudge to move forward with intimacy & will only do so when its recommended by our counsellor or she's scared that I might leave her.
Just wondering if anyone who's been in the same situation can offer up any advice as to the steps I should take at this stage? I obviously don't want to jeopardize any of the progress we've made.
Thanks in advance.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Also try to stick to one thread until 100 posts.
I have merged your threads togther
Great advice, thank you!
Still trying to get a hang of the rules, etc. I'll be sure to simply add to this thread.
Thanks again,
I'm looking to purchase the "The Divorce Remedy: The proven 7 step Program for saving your marriage" on my iphone but it shows the author of the book !?! Is this the correct book?
I'm looking to purchase the "The Divorce Remedy: The proven 7 step Program for saving your marriage" on my iphone but it shows the author of the book !?! Is this the correct book?
NO - it is the wrong author
You want the one from Michelle Weiner Davis
That is the correct book. Apparently front cover has changed quite a bit, but it is the same book. It use to be called Divorce Remedy. I just checked out the title at the Divorce Busting Store site and you can purchase the book at Amazon.
Here's the link to where it is on the Divorce Busting Site Store:
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/catalog/category/5705104
Thanks!
I purchased the book by Michelle Weiner Davis & look forward to reading it. I hope it holds the info I require to continue with this journey!
Thank you again,
Hey 76! Regarding the 37 rules... you should follow them all!
Some might need to be slightly adjusted depending on your situation but the rules work. Even if they don't make your W fall head over heels in love with you again, they will bring you sanity and self-esteem.
No snooping, no following around like a puppy, no texting all the time. Think about it, you said yourself she is more affectionate when you have a fight or when she thinks she might lose you. Do you want her to be more affectionate or less? Then make her wonder if her behavior has pissed you off!
Hasn't it?
It should have!!!
She should worry that what she has done will make you leave her. And she should do everything she can to make sure you don't. It doesn't sound like she is in that place yet. So you need to back off. Like I said before, focus on yourself - not on her. Stop following her around and trying to create intimacy. Back off and do your own thing. Go out with friends after work or go to the gym. Don't text with her all day long. Be busy. Don't be rude but don't be so available. Get a life.
Don't be too eager to share how much you love and adore her and want to be intimate with her. Yes, that is good for your wife to know, generally speaking. But at this time she needs her space to realize that she does want you in her life. If you are smothering her with love she won't realize it.
Read the threads of others. Try Mozza, he has links to success stories. See what other people have experienced and read the advice given to them.
Good luck 76!
Thanks again.
I am trying to use the steps (definitely working on myself, being cheerful & strong, not being needy or desperate, putting myself first.) but I'm finding it difficult in other areas because I feel that we have been making progress over the last 6 weeks or so. We are having fun together, we are laughing more, we are doing date nights (recommended by our counsellor). I worry that if I start to do things like distance myself or keep conversations short etc. it might be like taking 2 steps back.
The one place we are truly struggling is in the bedroom (as previously mentioned). She just can't bring herself to be intimate. I'm still trying to understand which of the 37 steps apply at this point, all of them or only a few?? (LisaB, I know you said to stick to them all & maybe adjust a few....but can you see why I'm struggling with how to go about this?) Again, I can understand not being needy, clingy etc. (I was guilty of that over the past few months) but I don't know if coming across as uninterested is my best approach.
The one place we are truly struggling is in the bedroom (as previously mentioned). She just can't bring herself to be intimate.
Isn't the sexual intimacy the main thing that differs between friends and lovers? She sees you as a friend. You get alone better for several reasons, but sexual desire just isn't there for her. IMO, the main reason a WW has no sexual desire for her H is b/c she has another guy in her head (if not her bed).
Hi Sandi2,
Thanks for your insight. I assume you read my initial post and know that she did have an A. She says it was an EA & that it never became physical, unfortunately I do have my doubts. I've given her numerous chances to come clean about everything, but she swears that what I found on her phone was/is the extent of it. I've come to the point where I'm done asking about it & done worrying about it.
We've talked about the intimacy issue in counselling & she says she wants to know what to do to get beyond her "friend-zone" feelings for me but she also says that she wouldn't kiss or hold a friend the way she does with me? So, I'm not sure if this is just her trying to make herself feel better, or what!!
I'm not sure if there is a way to work on this, but I will continue to work on myself first & hope that things fall into place.
any other tips or insight would be appreciated.
What were some of the issues you had in your M. And I'm not talking about the ones that you thought were her fault, but what were problems that you contributed to?
Starsky has a truth dart that use to hit me so hard when I showed up on the board as a WW. "All cheaters lie".
As much as you want to believe what she says, you would do well to remember that truth dart. There have been many WW's who would deny the hard evidence staring her in the face.
There are some women who continue having sex with the LBH even while she's conducting an A. However, it is my belief that most women will desire to be intimate with only one man, and if she has that one man in her head, then she's simply going through the motion with the other one. It's true that some who are in an EA will have sex with the H (he is substituted for OM) b/c she can fantasize that H is whoever she wants him to be. I think the majority of WW's have no desire to even go through the motions with her H. That is how most women are designed. She has emotionally divorce you and made you the outsider. In her heart/mind she has replaced you with OM.
Thanks again.
I am trying to use the steps (definitely working on myself, being cheerful & strong, not being needy or desperate, putting myself first.) but I'm finding it difficult in other areas because I feel that we have been making progress over the last 6 weeks or so. We are having fun together, we are laughing more, we are doing date nights (recommended by our counsellor). I worry that if I start to do things like distance myself or keep conversations short etc. it might be like taking 2 steps back.
The one place we are truly struggling is in the bedroom (as previously mentioned). She just can't bring herself to be intimate. I'm still trying to understand which of the 37 steps apply at this point, all of them or only a few?? (LisaB, I know you said to stick to them all & maybe adjust a few....but can you see why I'm struggling with how to go about this?) Again, I can understand not being needy, clingy etc. (I was guilty of that over the past few months) but I don't know if coming across as uninterested is my best approach.
A couple things -
1) don't confuse "niceness" with "progress". Just because she is being nice to you doesn't mean her feelings have changed any. It may just mean that she doesn't want to hurt you further and is kind of "biding time". Not saying that's for sure - but her feelings aren't going to change with only time - you need to actually IMPLEMENT personal growth and change...and that doesn't happen overnight.
2) there's a difference between uninterested and detached. There are a ton of threads out there on it, but read read read them. You can't "NICE" your way back in to this. The rules are not for you to win her back - they are so you can live healthily. Read through them again with a Beginner's mind. Try not to frame them in YOUR specific relationship as you understand the purpose of each one.
Starsky has a truth dart that use to hit me so hard when I showed up on the board as a WW. "All cheaters lie".
As much as you want to believe what she says, you would do well to remember that truth dart. There have been many WW's who would deny the hard evidence staring her in the face.
And my quote would be "How do you know they are lying?
Their lips are moving!"
I'm trying to figure out which of the 37 rules I should try & which ones I'm ok to steer clear of!?!
Are there particular ones you have questions about, or do you mean overall?
What were some of the issues you had in your M. And I'm not talking about the ones that you thought were her fault, but what were problems that you contributed to?
We had a great marriage, always enjoyed each other, rarely if ever fought. I guess that would be my one big issue. I always caved, gave her what she wanted. Always thought it was better to give what she wanted & avoid conflict. I guess I'm still having that issue, I never want to hurt anyone, would rather be the one that takes the punishment!
That teaches people how to treat you. I too made that mistake, it tells people you are a door mat and have self esteem issues.
This was the death knell for my marriage, over the years, they become more and more emboldened to walk al over you - Affairs, entitlement, criicisms, emotional abuse etc...
I'm trying to figure out which of the 37 rules I should try & which ones I'm ok to steer clear of!?!
Are there particular ones you have questions about, or do you mean overall?
I guess that's where I'm struggling, am I that clueless to the whole situation? What you've said " IMO, the main reason a WW has no sexual desire for her H is b/c she has another guy in her head (if not her bed)
Plus what others are saying has me so confused. It seems like I'm an idiot for wanting to believe that she made a mistake & is done with it!?! She even went so far as to write a letter to her family explaining what a horrible mistake she made!
Like I said I feel guilty for back tracking on the progress we appear to have made. But, I'm also starting to realize that perhaps by me continuing to do what I've been doing may just lead us back to a spot where she gets comfortable & I stay stuck in that "just friends" area.
So to answer your question Sandi2, I guess I'm struggling "overall"
Yesterday I did attempt to distance myself, I didn't chase or dote over her. I let her initiate any hugs, kisses, contact etc. At one point she asked if I was "ok" because I seemed distant. I reply that I was good & I was happy. I went out & she seemed a little more affectionate prior to me leaving & again when I got home, she really wanted to snuggle.
This A.M. she gave me a nice long kiss goodbye before work, told me she loved me!
So again I struggle because I can see that perhaps the distancing is the reason for her added attempts, but my mind keeps telling me that I don't want to seem uninterested because I fear that will cause her to pull away, stop trying!?!? I just don't know!
Actually seems like distancing is working, not that you are backtracking on progress. If her initiating more affection is a goal, then that seems to be working. She will need to keep it up of course. She also is likely reacting and testing to see if she still has you where she wants you (maybe consciously, maybe not). If you change course and start pursuing, you can pretty much guarantee that she will back off and start distancing again. That is not what you want.
If she truly has changed, time and her actions will tell. As everyone here will keep reminding you, patience, and if it is showing signs of achieving your baby step goals, don't mess with it. If you stick to the distancing and she stops the increased initiation of affection then you know that either it wasn't genuine or the distancing may not have been what was making a difference. You can re-evaluate then. The one thing I have had to learn about distancing--and it has been a hard lesson--moving to more distance and individuation seems like it is a short-run step and that once things improve you go back to closeness. Likely you were too enmeshed and not individuated enough to be healthy in a relationship, and you need to get used to being more of an individual to be good to yourself, be good in a relationship, and to be attractive to your W. That takes time and adjustment. It doesn't mean that closeness and bonding and affection can't come, but it is only from that healthier place that the distancing allows you to build that it can come in a healthy, loving way. Again, a hard lesson to learn, and one that doesn't come with any guarantees for improvement in the R. It will start feeling better, and you will feel better about yourself in the not too distant future sticking to your guns. If not, you can always reverse gears after really giving it a try with no loss (so don't respond to fear that you'll make things worse, a couple weeks won't matter in the long haul of saving your M).
Good luck!
Hello 76big76,
I'm glad you have ordered The Divorce Remedy. Please consider speaking with a Divorce Busting Coach too. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best advice on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction, especially in regards to the current lack of intimacy. Please call me to discuss our coaching program. 303-444-7004
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi Christy,
Perhaps a dumb question, but is it a conflict of interest to speak to you or another coach if my wife & I are currently seeing a couples counsellor?
76big76,
Not a dumb question at all! Many, many people work with both a DB Coach and their marriage counselor. Not all marriage counselors are pro marriage and that can be tricky. Divorce Busting Coaches are all about saving your marriage. This is a very proactive & goal oriented program that compliments marriage counseling quite nicely.
Please call me for more specifics. 303-444-7004
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I guess that's where I'm struggling, am I that clueless to the whole situation? What you've said " IMO, the main reason a WW has no sexual desire for her H is b/c she has another guy in her head (if not her bed)
Plus what others are saying has me so confused. It seems like I'm an idiot for wanting to believe that she made a mistake & is done with it!?! She even went so far as to write a letter to her family explaining what a horrible mistake she made!
Like I said I feel guilty for back tracking on the progress we appear to have made. But, I'm also starting to realize that perhaps by me continuing to do what I've been doing may just lead us back to a spot where she gets comfortable & I stay stuck in that "just friends" area.
So to answer your question Sandi2, I guess I'm struggling "overall"
If you will carefully read each of the 37 rules, you will see there is not a single one that should cause you this type of fear. They are simply guidelines for a newcomer who is faced with a WAS or wayward. Some men who are afraid, see detaching and/or the 37 rules as being cold and distant. You refer to it as distancing. It is up to the individual as to what degree to apply these. For example, where I say not to "initiate" contacts throughout the day.........a lot of people skip over that word initiate and stop responding to her texts and calls. Depending on the stitch, it may become necessary for some LBH'S, but my point is that this NC at all is not in the 37 rules. And, I stress over and over the LBS is not to be seen as cold, mad, pouting, etc.
If you believe your W is not a WAW or WW, and you are not headed for a divorce, and the only problem you have is sex, maybe you need to post in the sex starved section. If you think you are making progress and she is working on the M, try the Piecing section.
But I have to say that I don't really think it is a matter of sex starved, b/c you said the sex was great before the A, and she "suddenly" stopped. What you are experiencing
now is a W who has not been able to completely let go of OM, at least in her thoughts & dreams of what may have been between them. Even if she has not contacted him, she's keeping the A alive in her heart.
I believe all those excuses she gives about not having sex is BS. She doesn't want you to know OM is still in her head. That is something you cannot force out. She has to do it.
Hi 76,
Sandi2 is giving you great advice.
My H and I had a great relationship too, we were best friends. We got along well and hardly ever had a fight, disagreement or argument. Then he started an emotional affair with his coworker. I had no idea - I didn't imagine he was capable of such a thing. Suddenly - from one week to the next- he didn't want to have sex with me, but we still spent a lot of time together. I thought he was having a lot of stress and work and that was causing him to be distant and not affectionate. Guess what? He was stressed because he wanted to leave me and run off with his coworker! Even after he did that, he still lied to my face about it. When I confronted him with the cold truth he denied it! (of course his excuse was that he didn't want to hurt me) And this is a man who values honesty and believes himself to be a loyal, honest guy. He still does!
Why am I telling you this? Because you seem to think because you are nice to each other that things are fine. That because you are friends and kind to each other and not fighting and screaming that you should continue along these lines.
I don't know what is the truth in your relationship. I can only tell you that something is wrong, and it doesn't sound like you continuing to be "nice" is going to help.
Perhaps if when I first saw the signs I got myself together more quickly and started focusing on myself, my needs and bettering myself I could have prevented my H from running off with OW. Maybe not. Maybe the affair chemicals were so strong that nothing could have stopped it.
But I do regret continuing to be extra nice and loving to my H while he was having an affair! I didn't know what was going on, I only saw his distance. So I tried being extra loving. I chased him. Did it help or hurt? Maybe it had no effect. But I feel so stupid now for that time when I was extra caring and nice while he was planning to leave me. I wish I had realized what was going on and took the focus off him. I wish when he first started to be distant I just left on vacation, or changed my habits and stopped having dinner ready for him when he came home late from the office, not given him a back massage after his "stressful day at work" flirting with his coworker.
Do you see yourself in any of this? Read the stories of others on here, see what they struggled with and how much better things get when you take the focus off the WAS and start to get a life for yourself. Maybe it won't win her back. If not, there is probably nothing you could have done. But at least you will maintain your sanity.
Just to repeat what others said, focusing on yourself does not mean you should be angry, rude, cold. You just step back. Stop chasing. Focus on yourself. You can still smile, be friendly, be kind. But don't buy gifts, call all day, ask where she is going or what she is doing. Be polite but not doting.
Good luck!
Good post, Lisa. 76, it's not easy sharing painful memories, but that is one of the reasons these folks here are so supportive. They either have been in those shoes or experiencing it now.
I hope you will stick with us, b/c you need people who understand what you are going through. FWIW, after I ended my A, it was a long time before I wanted any love making with my H. It took months to get OM out of thoughts, especially at night b/c that is when things would get quite and still. Without the help I was receiving from the board, there is no telling how long it would have continued.
It can happen, and the two of you can have a healthy MR again.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Sandi2 you've made some really great points. I will re-read the rules & figure out the extent that I should apply each of them.
I'm not sure if I didn't explain our SL properly in my prior posts. We did have a great SL for the first few years, over time it decreased to a couple of times per week (which I think is normal for most couples) near the end it was 1 time a week & then every other week etc. etc.
(Side note) Looking back on our R she's always made a point of telling me how I was lucky that we had sex as often as we did because she knows of other friends that are only intimate 1 time per month. It almost seems like in her mind sex is a gift she's giving to me!?!
She said she entered the EA after she noticed her desire for me starting to change not before. Maybe this is just an excuse so she doesn't hurt me further. I'm really not sure if her lack of desire led to the EA or if the EA led to the end of our intimacy!?!
I continued to apply the rules( the best I could) over the weekend, no pursuing, no gifts, no initiating intimacy, I let her suggest a date night etc. We spent the weekend camping with family & at one point she pulled me aside and asked again if everything was OK & mentioned that she could tell that I was distancing myself. I said I was & that I was focusing on myself. (not sure I should have said this is in fact what I was doing?) but again she did seem to be more affectionate, she seems to be the one making the effort to hold hands, kiss, snuggle etc.
I know I'm all over the map here but I've got another question, first a little background.
My W and I like to travel as often as we can, last Nov. we ended up going to Vegas. W said she was hopeful this would help us reconnect somehow. This was prior to me finding out about her EA, but knowing full well that we were having our issues. Things seemed good, relaxed etc. (or at least she was able to make is seem like "life was good") even though she was full bore into her EA. I also know that she was contacting OM throughout our holiday, maybe that's why she was enjoying herself so much.
Fast forward to April...we took another trip to Vegas, W has assured me EA is over & she was done communicating with OM. It was 4 days of no stress, no responsibilities, we seemed to be able to leave our issues at home. During the trip we seemed to reconnect on some levels, there were no awkward silences or moments of uneasiness, I would say it helped us take a step forward. To my knowledge no contact with OM.
Of course when we got back to the real world things "cooled" again which I think is to be expected. To me holidays are an escape from reality, you do things you typically don't do, you have stimulation that you're not used to, distractions that you don't get in your daily life etc. I think that's what makes them special.
We take summer holidays together each Aug, typically for two weeks, we've done this for the last 10-12 years. We've been talking about it again for the last while but yesterday I told W I didn't think it was a good idea. She was surprised & a little shocked by this to say the least. When she asked "why not?" I told her it was because I want to be absolutely sure that our relationship is where we both want it to be. Also, although I didn't tell her this, I am trying not to be naïve to the fact that there's still a possibility that W is hung up on OM.
I feel that on our first trip in Nov. I was totally duped into believing that there was a chance that things may get better when in reality there was no way that it was going to happen. In April I felt that things actually improved, although this is assuming that EA is actually done & OM isn't on her mind. I'm trying to apply a few of the "steps" but my question is am I wrong to say 'no' to a holiday until I know our relationship has been completely mended or is it possible that I'm missing an opportunity for us to work on "us"?
What a rollercoaster!
Had a good weekend as prev. mentioned. W seemed to be coming around a little, but yesterday & today she seems to be more distant again. she said gave me a kiss & said "I love you" on the way out the door this A.M. but it didn't seem like there was any enthusiasm in her voice.
I keep telling myself to follow the rules, but it sure is hard.
I want to text her, I don't want to feel the anxiety that I'm experiencing, I can't get out of my mind that maybe we are taking steps backwards. Can Anyone recommend any "exercises" that seem to work for them to help get over these feelings? Or is it just something to suffer through for now & believe that it will get easier?
We take summer holidays together each Aug, typically for two weeks, we've done this for the last 10-12 years. We've been talking about it again for the last while but yesterday I told W I didn't think it was a good idea. She was surprised & a little shocked by this to say the least. When she asked "why not?" I told her it was because I want to be absolutely sure that our relationship is where we both want it to be. Also, although I didn't tell her this, I am trying not to be naïve to the fact that there's still a possibility that W is hung up on OM.
I think that was an excellent answer!
It's too early to know if she still has OM in her head. I would believe she does quicker than not, simply b/c of the time it takes to get over an EA. By August? Who knows? She, of course, will want to continue with the vacations...and will
guilt you by using the
kids. It's a tough call.
Thanks again Sandi2.
I am sort of waiting on the "guilt trip" to begin, although it hasn't started yet. We have no kids, so she can't use that card, but she certainly loves her holidays & I'm sure it will start eating at her sooner or later. When I told her my decision she commented that she felt like the pressure was on. Maybe she's starting to realize that I'm serious about things & am not will to wait for everything to happen on her watch. I guess we'll wait and see.
as I mentioned in my prev. post yesterday my morning started out with W seeming a little "off" again. When I got home from work she was getting ready to meet her girlfriends for dinner. I told her I was taking the dog for a walk & she said she was short on time but wanted to walk with me at least as far as the end of the street. We chatted a bit & when we reached the end of the street she gave me a kiss and said she had to run. I told her to have fun & that I'd see her whenever she got home. I didn't ask when she'd be home or even to let me know if she was going to be late as I'd normally do. About 5 minutes later she sent me a text, it simply said "P.S. I love you"
When W got home we talked & snuggled for a bit before bed. I should mention that she is staying in the spare room on weeknights & we share the master bedroom on weekends. This has been the case since she moved back in. It was her suggestion more than mine. Anyways, last night around midnight, she wakes me up, tells me she misses me and wants to know if I mind if she spends the night.
I have to admit this was a good feeling, but don't know if it was a great idea that I let her stay!?! Any thoughts on this?
Also, I feel that she is definitely running the show when it comes to sleeping arrangements, also, this isn't the first time she's crawled in on an "unscheduled" night.
I have no doubt that she'll be back in the spare room again tonight. So, should I be telling her to decide what she wants, either stay with the program or move back into bed on a full time basis??
I don't really think its fair that she's able to do whatever she wants just because she's feeling a specific way on any given day!
Thanks again as always for any input or advice!
I should mention that she is staying in the spare room on weeknights & we share the master bedroom on weekends. This has been the case since she moved back in. It was her suggestion more than mine. Anyways, last night around midnight, she wakes me up, tells me she misses me and wants to know if I mind if she spends the night.
What!?
Let me ask something. Have you ever read up on the subject of a transparency plan? You have a W who admitted to an A, and she has no consequences, and no accountability. She comes into the MBR when she decides, otherwise sleeps in a different room. Yes, she is totally running this show!
Sandi2,
"Have you ever read up on the subject of a transparency plan?"
I haven't but I expect maybe I should!
I guess I figured that by my initial request to ask her to leave the house was my way of holding her accountable. When we decided to move back in together I guess I thought the arrangement of spitting rooms would be a start towards reconciling.
Hi Sandi2,
You bet still here, still attempting to get a grasp on things & rehashing the last 10+ months of my life.
I have to admit that it's taken me a long time to realize that I've been getting walked all over since this whole ordeal started. Not sure how I can be so blind & forgiving with the whole situation. I just find myself hoping that maybe this will be the time that she's telling me the truth, not hiding anything & is really putting in the necessary effort. She told me last week that she's willing to put in the effort & will try anything to make things work. We had a counselling session last Thursday & we were given another recurring homework assignment which we completed for the first time on Sunday night. W followed through with it with no hang-ups or anxiety.
My update from our last weekend together:
We went camping again with a group of about 12 friends and for the most part had a great time. I kept myself busy socializing with the group & not dedicating all my time to W as I'd do in the past. W & I had a couple of minor 'spats' over nothing really, just stupid stuff. I would say this is outside the norm for us as we don't usually argue.
Then on Saturday night she surprised me by pulling me into our trailer, said "she was just going to go with how she was feeling about things in the moment" & proceeded to take things further than we have in 10+ months...lets call it 2nd base:) We got interrupted by the group that we were camping with, so not sure to what extent she would have allowed things to go & not sure if this is something I should talk to her about or just wait to see if she has another moment? I also must admit that we had been enjoying some adult beverages prior to all this happening, so could very well have been her inhibitions were lowered. I guess time will tell if this was a "drunken" action on her part or if she really was feeling comfortable & in the moment.
I had hockey Sunday night & after I left she sent me a couple of sweet "love" notes. I was also suppose to play again on Monday but our game was cancelled, when I mentioned this to W she seemed excited that we'd get to spend some time together. She has also commented a few times that she's looking forward to spending more time together & made a point of locking me down for a date night this Friday.
I am trying to not let the events of the past week/weekend cloud my judgement & continue to work on the "steps". I am getting out and doing more on my own & with other friends, also attempting to put 'me' first.
I still haven't brought up the whole sleeping in the spare room topic, although I know this is something I need to do.
Do you think its a bad idea for me to bring up the events of the past weekend? Do I ask her ask her if it was simply too much wine at dinner that caused her to do what she did?
Also, l haven't read up on "transparency plan" are there any links that anyone could provide?
After all this I'm still struggling with nagging thoughts that there might still be something going on with W and OM. Not sure why!?! I hope this is just paranoia resulting from past experiences and that it will pass with time!
I don't recall a specific link on transparency. The point of transparency is for you to be able to access your W's cell phone activity, email accounts, etc.., without you giving any notice or warning. If she is sincere about ending the A, she will have no problem in her H accessing anything. If she is sincere, she will want to prove herself. But, if she starts with the privacy cr@p, then she's lying about OM and her wanting to work on the M. There should not be a need for privacy from the spouse, and whenever a person gets riled b/c their privacy has been invaded, you can bet they have something to hide.
If she is serious, she will agree to being transparent. If she starts in about how that is you controlling her, then her heart is not right. Transparency is to help her, as well as it is to give accountability. It is pretty useless for her to pick and chose what you can see, or for her to tell you where she's going, etc. She doesn't get to decide. She doesn't get alerted. Only you decide when you will look.
I don't recall a specific link on transparency. The point of transparency is for you to be able to access your W's cell phone activity, email accounts, etc.., without you giving any notice or warning. If she is sincere about ending the A, she will have no problem in her H accessing anything. If she is sincere, she will want to prove herself. But, if she starts with the privacy cr@p, then she's lying about OM and her wanting to work on the M. There should not be a need for privacy from the spouse, and whenever a person gets riled b/c their privacy has been invaded, you can bet they have something to hide.
If she is serious, she will agree to being transparent. If she starts in about how that is you controlling her, then her heart is not right. Transparency is to help her, as well as it is to give accountability. It is pretty useless for her to pick and chose what you can see, or for her to tell you where she's going, etc. She doesn't get to decide. She doesn't get alerted. Only you decide when you will look.
Gotcha, that makes total sense!
She has told me that I can see her phone etc. at any time but my worry is (a) that because I've found stuff on her phone before & confronted her about it that she'll be careful with deleting any conversations that may have taken place (if in fact there are any) & (b)that she will get defensive, although I guess if there is nothing to hide then why would she. I guess there's only one way to find out!
I decided to ask W if what happened in the trailer over the weekend was a mistake. She said that she wanted to go with what felt right in the moment but as I expected she also said low inhibitions from drinking likely played a large roll.
She is out tonight but reminded me before she left that we have to do our "homework" assignment when she gets back. She said maybe after homework she could sleep over because she's going out again tomorrow. I told her that likely wasn't a good idea an added that I didn't like how she was dictating everything. She seems a little surprised but also a little impressed that I stood up for myself.
I decided to ask W if what happened in the trailer over the weekend was a mistake. She said that she wanted to go with what felt right in the moment but as I expected she also said low inhibitions from drinking likely played a large roll.
That's one of the problems with a WW........she is controlled by her emotions in the moment. It must have caused you not to feel so great when she brushed it off by saying that drinking was a large part of it.
I caution you to be careful about these times of sudden seduction. It is not what you think it is.
As long as she's going out with her "girlfriends" every night while you sit at home waiting, the dynamics won't change.
Have you read the book, no more mr. nice guy? I think you may find it helpful.
Definitely didn't make me feel great, although I shouldn't have been surprised.
Have you read the book, no more mr. nice guy? I think you may find it helpful.
I haven't, although I did see it mentioned here by someone else. Seems like I've been reading more books over the past couple of months than I have in years. I bought both books recommended here, Divorce remedy & Divorce busting. I'm about half way done divorce busting. W has also purchased a couple of books so not sure if I'll read those when I'm done my current list.
I'll keep trudging along!