Ok,
Can use the group's help on something. Thurs my ww brought up, after my things are all out of the house, giving her my key.
She said they boys will have a copy of both of our keys anyway, if they forget something or need something in the house. When I hesitated, she asked if I would feel comfortable giving her a key to my place - I told her I thought so, but would have to think about it.
I'm sure she really doesn't want a key to my place, her point being, why should I be the only one allotted the privacy and place of my own, when I'm the one who moved out?
I told her that for me, my hesitation wasn't about giving her the key, it felt like she was asking for it because she needed to be worried or felt I was a threat and that hurts.
Ultimately, she said it was more about having a place of her own and wanting that space.
I'm not sure what to do now. I told her I needed time to process things and wasn't saying "no", just needed to think.
The boys will have a key if I really needed something. While this could be a control thing for her, that's been one of the things that's come up for us in the past - that I've been too controlling. I could see me holding on to the key being more of the same.
I also could see me giving the key back a sign of dropping the rope and moving on.
What are your thoughts? Not sure what to do here.
I'm by no means a vet here, but I think you should give it to her. I can't really see any reason to hang on to it e cept to continue to feel like you have some level of control in the situation. Like you said, it's possible to get something if you really need it. I actually think you'll feel better after getting rid of it.
Rip,
Legally, I believe you have a right to have access to the marital home at this stage. From a DB standpoint, I'm not sure what the right move is. I can see the figurative meaning in giving up the key.
As far as keys to your new place, I don't think you need to give STBX a key. That's your place. If she needs to get some of the kids things, she can make arrangements with you, just like a friend or neighbor would.
Thanks, Matt and Defacto. Yes, legally, I'm sure I have a right, but not sure it's the right thing to do.
Again, I'm very sure was does not want a key to my new place, was just using it to show how I might feel about giving up some of my freedom, piece of mind and personal space to her. She wants a "place of her own".
I think I'm leaning towards giving her the key because it can show letting go and dropping the rope.
Am I missing something here? What does everyone else think? Thanks again!
I'm assuming everyone else feels the same and I should just give her the key.
I'm assuming everyone else feels the same and I should just give her the key.
Why would you keep it?
The boys will have a key if I really needed something. While this could be a control thing for her, that's been one of the things that's come up for us in the past - that I've been too controlling. I could see me holding on to the key being more of the same.
I also could see me giving the key back a sign of dropping the rope and moving on.
Yep.
Sounds good - pretty much what I was thinking.
Why would I keep the key? Because it still gives me some attachment to her and what was our home/life together. Even though I'm out, I'd still psychologically be able to be back with the key I've had for 8 years.
That's the point and the reason I need to give it back - ATTACHMENT. If I am truly dropping the rope, there's no reason for me to have it.
sounds like you are taking it all in stride Rip. I am sorry that things have come to that, having to give back you keys.
hope you go out and commemorate this next step of detachment with something new, something adventurous, something FUN...really i do!
Rip,
How are you doing this morning?
Defacto, so far so good. I've been trying to pile on my GAL activities. TUES I started my softball league with friends and that was a blast. Last night, I got the boys back so I have them tonite as well. We went to the pool and relaxed in the 80 degree weather. Aside from that, getting furniture set up in the new place has kept me busy. Probably a low key night relaxing with the boys in store for tonight.
This weekend I am kidless, but have some GAL planned. Friday will be spending time with a friend, probably watching some sporting event. SAT I take the Mensa exam (really just for fun, but curious how I do). SAT night I've been invited to a rooftop pool party in the heart of downtown KC - should be a blast. SUN, more furniture being delievered, shopping, workout, getting ready for the new week.
SUN night will prob hit me the hardest.
In truth, I'm trying to stay busy and while I still think about ww multiple times an hour, it's for a fleeting couple of seconds and then I can stop myself and go back to being in the present moment. Sometimes are easier than others. I've found I can let myself daydream for several minutes and then I allow myself to get triggered/sad.
Being on this forum, connecting with all of you helps immensely.
I haven't really had any contact with ww since dropping the kids of MON. Brief exchanges of texts each day regarding something with the boys - but not much at all. Really trying to keep my PMA up.
Sounds good - pretty much what I was thinking.
Why would I keep the key? Because it still gives me some attachment to her and what was our home/life together. Even though I'm out, I'd still psychologically be able to be back with the key I've had for 8 years.
That's the point and the reason I need to give it back - ATTACHMENT. If I am truly dropping the rope, there's no reason for me to have it.
Way to be, man.
RAI
Can use the group's help on sending a text. My ww is open to me dropping the kids off after work or her coming by to pick them up. My pref would be if I drop them off, so I can look my best and be mysterious. Here's the text I plan to send. Any suggestions/re-writes?
"Hey - I'm not going to be home much tonight. I can drop the boys off right after work. I'll be on my way out anyway."
I would keep it simple and try not to lead the witness. Maybe something like:
"Hey. It's better for me to drop them off. Is that ok?"
Thanks - I sent that over and she said "sure, that's fine".
Worked as well as I expected. Now the plan is to wear a nice button down shirt with jeans, good cologne, etc.
I do have plans tonite, so I can be breezy, positive and ready to leave.
I also think I'll be dropping of the key with her. How should I approach that?
I was thinking of "here you go, I won't be needing this anymore."
Is that ok or would validating like: "I thought about what you said. I understand it's important for you to have your own space and I respect that."
What suggestions do you have?
Any ideas on how to phrase this, rather than just "here's the key"
Just give her the key. Making a production out of it will get her hackles up.
Not trying to make it a production, but using it as a way to have positive interaction and detach. Maybe just giving it up, like it's no big deal (because it isn't) will speak more than a phrase/script?
Anyone else?
Rip,
Stop looking for the perfect answer. Just go and give W the key..."here you go. have a good weekend." Then turn and leave.
Thanks wonka. I'm really trying not to overthink things but since I've moved out, gone dark and don't initiate anything, I'm trying to make the limited interactions we have count.
Wonka is correct, just limit your interaction and words. No need to explain anymore, just give the facts.
I know it is a hard mode to get out of. When my D started I still felt the need to explain everything. Now I just give the facts. When I dropped off my key I just said "here is the key" nothing more.
If you have something planned or not there is no need to explain why you need to drop the kids off to her. Just give the facts.
My opinion is that I am D'd, my XW no longer has the privileges to my feelings or reasons behind my actions.
Be Joe Friday... Just the facts
Gogofo - I get the premise. However, I am NOT divorced (the process in in place) but I'm not trying to act like we're done and our marriage is over.
It's a hard balance. Definitely not pursuing, not initiating, going dark, getting a life, PMA, looking good, etc.
But don't want to be cold and FU attitude either.
Hi Ripken, I think the way to go is to 'act as if' the M is over. As if your life is your own business, and you are not reactive towards W or worried about what she may think or how she may react. I think that is the key.
That doesn't mean being cold - cold would be reactive - it just means interacting in a neighbourly way and not over working or over worrying things - just moving forward and living your own life for now.
Toots - I am. I definitely am and that helps. Even though I'm acting as if my marriage is over and dropping the rope (which is 100% why I'm giving the key back in the first place), I wanted to be clear my intentions are not for my marriage to be over. I want to fight.
Even though I know this is the only healthy way to "fight".
Hi Ripken, I think the way to go is to 'act as if' the M is over. As if your life is your own business, and you are not reactive towards W or worried about what she may think or how she may react. I think that is the key.
Hey Ripken,
Sorry, I’ve been extremely busy and haven’t been on the DB Forum much at all for a few days. I certainly have not forgotten about you, my friend!
I loved Toots' advice, especially the quote above. I'm glad you agree with her and are using that "strategy."
Any GAL activities planned for the weekend?
Take care.
Bob
Thanks bob and everyone else. I dropped the key of as I was saying goodbye to the boys. Handed it to her, said "here you go." And "have a great weekend" and left. She was surprised but also looked a little relived or happy, completely mind reading.
Overall I feel good. One less thing keeping me attached to what was our home and who was my wife. No idea if those will ever be back again.
Ripkin-
I know exactly how you feel with the balancing act of trying to detach/GAL without putting out any possible flame that may exist.
If your sitch is anything close to mine then trust me the W knows you love her. More importantly she needs to know you love yourself.
I spent weeks backsliding only to realize my focus was still on the W and this created a vicious cycle. Let her go...if she comes back great, if not you'll still be great!
One day at a time my friend.
You're welcome, Rip, you're going to make it.
Good job.
Bob
Max, bob. Thanks. That's the thing, I'm really feeling more detached and loving myself. Eventually I'll get to a point where I don't second guess or try and preempt every limited interaction we have because it'll be second nature for me.
Again, I miss her less living apart from her than I did when she slept 15 feet away from me.
Rip, you're welcome. It seems like you are headed in the right direction. And it is so important to love yourself. As I'm sure you've heard/read, if you don't love yourself, how can you expect your partner to love you?
Keep it up, buddy. One step at a time.
Bob
Rip,
How's your weekend going? It's probably going great since we haven't heard from you in a bit. Keep it up!
Sorry - been Mia as I've been trying to gal. Weekend went great, best I've had in a long time. Tried hanging out with a friend fri but that fell through. Was disappointed but watched a movie I had wanted to see by myself and worked out. It was nice and I started to appreciate alone time.
Saturday took the Mensa test, a fun challenge for my brain. Then worked out, relaxed and went to a fun rooftop pool party. That was great. I saw some old friends and met many new ones.
Yesterday did some errands, worked out and met one of my new friends out for dinner last night. It was a really good weekend and rarely thought or worried about ww.
However, when she dropped off the boys this morning she continues to do so without getting out of the car and even without texting me. Pretty much it's dropping off at a regular time and then moving on. No interaction. Also the boys told me she introduced them to a bunch of her friends this weekend. People she never did while we were married.
So this morning I get triggered feeling like while I'm gal and doing ok, it feels like she could care less because no matter how dark I go, she's darker. And no matter how much I move forward in my life with or without her, she wants that and has already moved on.
Dude, the trick is to GAL for yourself not for her. No one ever said you would win her back for sure. But you have to sort you out and not always looking over the shoulder what she is doing... Frankly what ever she is doing is none of your business as long it isn't interfering with your life or the life of your kids. So let her go and let god.
And when you learn that you will be just fine by yourself, that's when growth begins and that's when wonderful things start happening...
Peace with you bro...
So this morning I get triggered feeling like while I'm gal and doing ok, it feels like she could care less because no matter how dark I go, she's darker.
Three things:
1) I want to echo Vapo: you have to stop looking at what W is doing.
2) Don't compare your insides to W's outside. You don't know what she is feeling or why she is doing what she is doing. You are still mind-reading. (as you know I am no expert, but...) To effectively detach you will have to stop worrying about what your W is doing and move on.
"it feels like she could care less" - To that I would say: you don't know if she cares,
and you shouldn't care if she cares. DETACH.
3) I trigger a ton. I think that is normal. What has changed is how I respond when I trigger. I look back at some of my journal entries and see how reactive I was. Pretty scary!
Your detach buddy,
RAI
Vapo/RAI - thanks. I get the detach aspect. The entire weekend I was detached. This morning, I was triggered. Set back, but I understand the process.
Where I'm struggling is trying to balance the detaching and moving on with my life with also staying the light house. Right now it seems easier to just write her off than GAL for me and pine for her in the background.
You got it almost right: write her off. GAL. Stop pining for her in the background. If she comes back, she comes back. If you love someone, set them free. It's tough. Sorry.
RAI
I want to be more clear. When I'm getting a life, I'm meeting a lot of new people. It's amazing how many women take a ginuine interest in me and how easier it is to connect. As I'm moving on and letting her go, when do I consider dating/seeing anyone else? NOT a relationship. It's flattering and nice to get phone numbers and talk to others. I don;t even go into my marriage or things I talk about on her, just talk about me and common interests.
Everything I've seen says that you work on you and not to take that route. I'm not wanting or looking for a relationship, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't want to go on a date with someone or do other activities (sporting events, movies, etc) with them.
That's what I meant by pining. I can GAL for me to a certain extent, while she is already gone and with whoever she wants.
At times, I feel I have a leash and even when she doesn't want it, because of her and our marriage, I'm not fully free.
Dude, you have to decide if you stand or end the stand. Sure it is fun to date and to hookup, but how is that making you any different than your W. I would not recommend hooking up at least a year post BD. Think about it, you hurt and you just need some to take the hurt. It might mask it a bit, but a hurt still remains.
And do not try to be a lighthouse, first concentrate on just being. Be the best dad in the world, play with the kids, get down and dirty with them. Play with them as if you are one of them.
And it is pretty twofaced to pretend to be a lighthouse and date around at the same time. Don't you think?
That's EXACTLY what I'm asking about, Vapo. You say "GAL and detach. Don't worry about her". That only goes so far. I have been working on myself since BEFORE bomb drop, going on more than 6 months. Also, I'm not whoring around or looking for cheap hookups or serious relationships.
The problem with detaching is it seems impossible to have it both ways. If I detach and "be the lighthouse", I'm spending that time with expectations (that I shouldn't have) hoping that there is a CHANCE that it could make our relationship better down the road and that would be worth it to do so.
If I detach and "don't worry about her and GAL" I'm subject to meeting new people and having new connections. Getting self-esteem boosts from realizing there are people out there who like me for me. But, I don't act on any of that.
So, how do I do either, without feeling lonely or hurt or stuck? Detach and be the lighthouse with or without her OR detach, make connections and never act. Doesn't really seem that possible.
Also, in my sitch I have and continue to be the best dad possible. My interactions with my boys has NEVER been an issue or something I feel I need help with.
I know dude... I truly do... And I am not on your case breaking your jewels... Expectations are wrong, but hope is not. There is hope as long there is love in your heart. I know that feelings of love fade esp. in light what the spouse is doing at the moment. And getting ego boosts is addicting behaviour by itself. That's what your W is doing. Hooked on the happy drug. And she is always on the lookout for the next fix. The problem is, that she needs to have a higher dosage every time, just to get the same feeling back and that is a loosing game.
I think of it like this. Would I like to be responsible for someone's feelings if they would get attached to me while I still am not healed? Would I be able to look them in the eyes and say sorry babe, you were just a fling, a band aid, just something to tie me over? Nope.
Until I finish my journey, I am standing. But there will be a point when I will stand no more. I am not there yet. Remember, as long as there is love in your heart, there is hope...
Hang in there buddy... I know where you are speaking from, I really do...
And do differntiate between hope and expectations. It is vital you get this.
“Hope is important because it can make the present moment less difficult to bear. If we believe that tomorrow will be better, we can bear a hardship today.”
That is where expectations are formed. I believe/expect tomorrow will be better. Than when it's not, I get disappointed. There CAN be a difference, but it's razor thin, IMO.
As far as someone's feelings - I'm up front with people. I let them know I'm not ready to be in a relationship, but enjoy time getting to know new people and share common interests.
I'm not hooked or looking for fixes, but also not trying to be isolated working on me and not GAL.
"There is hope as long there is love in your heart. I know that feelings of love fade esp. in light what the spouse is doing at the moment."
This is also what I struggle with. I love my wife and still want my marriage or a chance to work on it together and see where we go from there.
However, it's damn tough to fully move forward and let go, if I'm holding onto that love because it gives me hope. It sounds contradictory.
The longer I do (hold onto the love/hope) the more I question if I'm inflicting more pain onto myself but not fully moving on now.
That's the question I know only I can answer - how long is too long?
Come one dude, we are all adults here.
Don't you think I wouldn't like to spend a hot and passionate night with a gorgeous woman?
But that would be a band aid for a broken leg. That would be a temporary fix.
Let me try to explain the difference between hope and expectations.
When you attach expectations to anything, and it does not pan out, you are hurt. You cry to god why me? I have done everything right, why me??? YOu are not on your timeline, you are on god's.
Surely you know the statistics that even more second marriages fail than the first ones. That is because people move on too quickly, thinking the other person will make them happy. NO ONE CAN MAKE YOU HAPPY... ONLY YOU CAN...
Food for thought...
I think you're missing my point Vapo. I'm not lying to anyone, especially myself.
For me, there's a difference between spending time with several people, sharing common interests and having sex or getting physical with them. I'm not ready for that and not doing that.
I do admit that the more I or anyone interacts with other, the closer it CAN get towards that, but doesn't have to.
I'm not trying to defend getting physical with someone, just being able to have going to a movie with someone or sporting event or even dinner be a GAL activity.
I also realize I am responsible for my happiness. However, anybody's (including me) self esteem goes up when they realize there are other people taken an interest in them.
THAT boost also helps in my interactions with ww to have a more positive and upbeat attitude around them. Everyone talks about going dark being that you should be busy/mysterious and essentially have them wonder if you've moved on.
Again, while I'm not advocating relationships or sex, why couldn't these interactions be useful in helping me with PMA, detaching and being upbeat around ww?
Thumbs up dude. You are right, nothing wrong with catching a flick or galing with someone.
Best of luck to you buddy... We are on the same page here...
Thanks, Vapo. Sometimes it's hard to articulate what you're trying to say.
I appreciate the feedback and advice. I felt happy about my progress and this weekend. Just this morning was a trigger and reminder of where I still am and the continued work I have to do.
All the more reason why I'm not moving into a relationship or getting physical with anyone. Not ready for it.
Just this morning was a trigger and reminder of where I still am and the continued work I have to do.
Don't these things always seem to pop up right as we think we're starting to feel ok?
Rip,
I think I traveled down the rabbit hole this morning on the detachment discussion over on my thread. I have wondered if it is really possible to completely detach, like having absolutely no physical, emotional, or mental response to WW. Obviously, that's not a question for you or I because we still have so much more work to do.
I am pleased to hear you had a good weekend, my friend.
I do admit that the more I or anyone interacts with other, the closer it CAN get towards that, but doesn't have to.
Again, while I'm not advocating relationships or sex, why couldn't these interactions be useful in helping me with PMA, detaching and being upbeat around ww?
I understand what you and Vapo were trying to get at, and it does make sense. The problem with using those interactions with woman as a GAL activity is that they are filling an emotional need of yours. You say it doesn't have to go too far and maybe it wont. However, once you begin taking those baby steps to that good feeling each next step is easier and easier.
This is exactly what happens with our WW's. Emotional need not met, find someone who meets it. Justify baby steps because they make you "feel good and nothing wrong with it". Before you know it you're in a place doing things you never expected. Its easy to justify any action when deep down it makes you feel good. I believe all of us are capable of much more than we realize when we are faced with pain and unmet needs. Its just human nature.
The holding on and how long is a question each person needs to ask. For me I know I'm not ready for a new relationship and might not be for years. So I question my true motives, am I just in pain and want it to be over? For me that would be the wrong reason to move on.
You admit you aren't ready for a new relationship, so why try to close this door right now? You can still move forward with your life without starting a new relationship or . What motive is there for moving on fully unless its just about detaching and not hurting anymore.
Detaching is letting someone live the way they want without it effecting/controlling you. Moving on/letting go fully of someone because you feel its holding back your detachment is backwards. We detach to be able to not let those feelings control us, but that's exactly what you would be doing.
I understand what you were saying about detachment and hope, but don't confuse detaching and holding onto love. You can be detached and still love, still have hope. Its just a very difficult process that takes time, and we may never be fully detached, which is fine. The point is to be able to manage your emotions in a healthy way.
Fogg - that makes sense and that's the problem I seem to be having. I get smacked on the head with 2x4's because people on here will tell me (rightfully so) that she doesn't give a rat's ass about me right now and will be selfish and do things for her. She may never come back and her actions AND words are showing that to be more true.
I am separated and for the first time in years I am starting to feel happy with myself, by myself and away from ww. There are still triggers, setbacks and things I'm working on.
However (and this is what I was afraid of 2-3 months ago), the longer I am away, GAL and working on me, the more I wonder how long I should hold on for. What's the point and is the ROI I would potentially have with her AND potential risk greater than what I may find moving on and being by myself until I'm ready for that?
At this point I don't know, but am starting to question it more every day. Interestingly enough - the thought of being divorced from her no longer feels life ending. It feels like I will be more than ok, no matter what happens.
Progress.
Rip,
Your progress has been awesome, especially in such a short amount of time.
I'm with you, where sometimes I invest so much time and thought in the DB strategies that I don't stop to ask myself if I even really want WW back. I think it's perfectly ok to ask that question. Matter of fact, I even would second guess a LBS who hasn't asked themselves that question. What is the best possible scenario for Ripken or Defacto? I don't know yet. I think I know but I'm not exactly sure right now.
However, I don't know if there's an answer we will find wrapped up in a bow. Ultimately, I think we'll just know, or maybe it's just a hunch, when we've reached our breaking point.
Thanks Defacto - that question I've started to almost ask daily and unfortunately, where it used to be 100% "of course, we can overcome anything in our marriage and I want the chance to try", now it's starting to wane.
I do agree. I think we (and others) will just know - all in good time.
Good luck to you and your sitch. I admire all the work you've done as well!
I'm with you, where sometimes I invest so much time and thought in the DB strategies that I don't stop to ask myself if I even really want WW back. I think it's perfectly ok to ask that question.
I can see what your saying here, but not sure I completely agree. Yes, we all have those times when we question if this is the person we want to be with or not and I think that's fine. I guess what I don't agree with is using that as a basis for giving up or not right now.
What our WAS/WW's are doing right now certainly makes us not want to be with them. No one likes this behavior or wants it in a spouse, but the possibility for change is there just as it was for us.
That being said, in most of our cases our S had the same feelings about us. They had unmet needs, unhappy in the M and didn't FEEL like being with us anymore. Basically, they seen us a person they wanted to move on from and leave no doors open. The possibilities for walking away and finding someone better is higher than standing and doing hard work they might not want to do.
To me, it just seems more like the whole "grass is greener" argument. I understand at some point we do make the decision to move on because it would be unhealthy at some point to not move forward, but I feel we all try to make it way to soon and push the thought into our heads. When we begin to FEEL positive about ourselves and our changes and FEEL negative about who our WAS/WS's are, just seems like a bad time to force that question.
That's why I feel the most important thing we can do is to just keep moving forward with our lives. One day when we are capable of having a healthy relationship with another person, and that opportunity presents itself, then that door naturally closes. No reason to make a decision to close it now.
Interestingly enough - the thought of being divorced from her no longer feels life ending. It feels like I will be more than ok, no matter what happens.
Progress.
I think this is also very important, it is major progress. Once we accept either outcome will lead to us being OK, we can let things play out without forcing anything one way or another.
Thanks fogg. I guess where I am is not closing the door today or setting a timetable on when. The fact that I've even accepted that door COULD close for ME is a major turning point.
Throughout the DB process, there was never a chance it could ever close for me. And when I thought more about it, after taking care of myself, GAL and learning to appreciate the catch I am, I started to realize my own self-worth and value.
There will be a time where if nothing changes, I will move on, not just move forward. When that time is, I have no idea.
But the fact that I'm more than ok with that is a huge change.
For me, I likened it to seeing Alaska. I know it's out there somewhere, but I can't see it from my house. If I start walking that way, I'll eventually see it, but I don't need to worry about that.
I've accepted that there may be a day when I'm ready to move on with my life without my W. Today Me has no idea on Earth I'll be able to do that. But I know that as I live my life day by day, I will eventually reach that point.
Lots of heavy stuff on the boards today.
I agree with you as well. Although it appears that my WW is back, I had come to the realization that I would be fine either way. Only you can decide how long is appropriate to wait. Don't be surprised if she noticed it when you do, though.
For me, I likened it to seeing Alaska. I know it's out there somewhere, but I can't see it from my house. If I start walking that way, I'll eventually see it, but I don't need to worry about that.
I've accepted that there may be a day when I'm ready to move on with my life without my W. Today Me has no idea on Earth I'll be able to do that. But I know that as I live my life day by day, I will eventually reach that point.
Lots of heavy stuff on the boards today.
I chuckled when I read this bit about Alaska. I would love to see Alaska but it's a hell of a hike from Florida!
I agree. Lots of real talk on the board today.
That's good though and why I love coming here and hearing from all of you. I get real answers and experiences from people that understand. Fears, concerns, irrational things - I'm never judged. Everyone here seems to have my best interest at heart and are impartial. Not like friends, family or even at times ic.
This group fills a void and gives me piece I can't find anywhere else. Thank you all more than I can say.
And you give so much back so that is awesome!
Send a postcard when you get to Alaska... Always wanted to go there through Vancouver
That's good though and why I love coming here and hearing from all of you. I get real answers and experiences from people that understand. Fears, concerns, irrational things - I'm never judged. Everyone here seems to have my best interest at heart and are impartial. Not like friends, family or even at times ic.
This group fills a void and gives me piece I can't find anywhere else. Thank you all more than I can say.
Can't agree with this sentiment more. Feels like a second family that actually understands what I'm going through.
GAL activities for the week (aside from working out 4-5 times):
TUES - softball league
WED - Meetup group, should be fun
THURS - Going out to eat with a friend
FRI-SUN - Have the boys for the weekend
SAT - Boys will be with my sister during evening, have a Bachelor party with 20-30 of my college friends
Should be a nice couple of days. Overall, I'm proud of keeping busy and my GAL. I've connected with a lot of old friends and made several new ones. It HAS helped because all I would do without these activities is wonder why ww doesn't interact and what she's doing. I know past experience AND recent past tell me that she "follows my lead", so if/when I go dark/distant, she assumes I need space and leaves me alone. Especially after I gave her the key to the house, without a fight - but I disgress from mind reading.
In my downtime, normally right before bed I do thinking about if I want ww back and what I would need. Still several questions I don't know the answer to and moot for a while down the road, if ever. I have a meeting with my IC THURS, so that should help process things.
But aside from GAL activities, my go tos are still the same: work on my self esteem, stay dark, be the best father I can be and rediscover what I enjoy doing - have fun.
Rip,
I thnk you have a good plan going forward. Stay consistent and focuse.
As always, your GAL list is impressive. I have to say, I'm a little jealous of the softball league. I've been wanting to join a softball league for years. Maybe if our parenting schedule ever gets semi-regular, I could get into that.
Well, this week has been good. Having a down moment as its starting to hit that it's coming to a close. Here's some of the positives and gal moments:
-Tuesday had softball and then drinks with teammates afterwards. Won both games.
-Wed went to a meet up group and made some more new acquaintances. This group is interesting and comfortable.
-Thursday went out with a new friend I made at the party last week. She's fun and we have some things in common. It's was a fun time, but I'm not looking to date her or anyone. Still a lot of work to do on me.
-also Thursday saw my ic. Have been seeing her weekly since right before everything started to go south, so more than 7 months. She said that she is very pleased with my progress, plan, care of myself and she advocated we now only meet once a month, if that. She said aside from time, there's not much more she can do and feels I'm already applying all the tools I could. That was nice to hear.
-Friday got an email that I passed the Mensa test I took last week and was accepted into the American Mensa association. That was a nice self esteem boost.
-Saturday went to a bachelor party for one of my college fraternity brothers. There were 25 of us there and some I hadn't seem in 15 years. Was a blast and great trip down memory lane.
-today picked up the boys for the rest of today. Kinda feeling sad the weekend is over and also missing ww. Not sure if it's really ww I miss or just the concept of having someone to come home to who misses me and wants to share their life with me. I'm sure the couple weddings I'll be going solo to this summer will be tough. Also, haven't had a conversation about anything with ww since i moved out more than 2 weeks ago.not sure that I want to with her, but again I miss that someone.
Thanks Sandi! That means a lot, coming from you. I try to read and follow your posts as much as I can and try to apply what fits.
Congrats Mensa member! Wow!
Congrats Mensa member! Wow!
Seriously impressive, Rip. Way to go!
Ripken,
I haven't read your sitch, but I saw the word Mensa and well....I swooned. I'm a smarty pants:)
Congrats to you. That's fabulous!
Ha! Thanks - really just something I wasn't sure of and wanted to see if I could do it. Have been doing a lot physically (working out, running) and spiritual (meditation, going to temple), so trying something for my mind was a nice challenge.
Feeling much better today. Think all the GAL activities was causing me to run on fumes and lack of sleep increased my anxiety. All and all back to focusing on me, GAL and doing my 180s. Ready to look my best when I drop the boys off at ww tonite.
So ww just contacted me. Wants me to give a key to the boys so she can pick them up on her way home from work (before I'm home) and they can lock up when they leave. This would mean going forward she would drop off and pick up without us EVER having any interaction.
Not sure how the going dark works, if this were to take place. But not being able to have any interaction I would think making DB tough because she won't see any changes/me at my best.
However, if I don't agree seems like I'm just trying to control the situation. What do you guys think?
I think your lips need to form into a round pucker and say, "Nooooooooooo"!
No as in not allow that to happen? What reason do I give? just that I'm no comfortable with my place being locked/unlocked without me there?
Whenever I see the "noooooooo" I always think of that Darth Vader moment in episode 3 where he puts up his hands and screams over something he lost that he has no control over. Wasn't sure if that was a reference. That I should just accept it and I have no control over it or the exact opposite. I have control over logistics and just tell ww that won't work.
Her point is she gets off at 3:30 and when it's her day, why should she have to wait until I'm home at 5:30 when they are just sitting there waiting.
any help with this? Meeting her in 2 hours . . .
Rip,
I don't know how you prevent it. If you put your foot down, I think it defeats the purpose a little bit
Also, she just texted me that she is hiring a Real Estate agent and having them call me. Setting herself up for limited to no contact with me and selling what was our home.
She's ready to go. So this is triggering.
I would think making DB tough because she won't see any changes/me at my best.
However, if I don't agree seems like I'm just trying to control the situation. What do you guys think?
You make the changes for YOU not to win her back!
So to me if the only reason you are not agreeing is to try to CONTROL the sich, then that is a bad reason.
Going dark might be a good idea, really.
Ok. That makes sense. Why would Sandi say "nooooooooo" then?
I think your lips need to form into a round pucker and say, "Nooooooooooo"!
Rip, your W lost the right to just come and go from your house when she blew up your family. Don't give her the damn key.
Let me clarify: ww would NOT be getting a key. My kids would have a key. They already have a key for her place. She is wanting the ability to pick them up when she is off at 3:30 and have them lock the place up when they leave.
It's hard to think logically how to tell her no. "I don't want to make a copy and give it to them"? It just sounds controlling.
I'm fine with telling her no, just not sure why.
Ah, I understand this better. Do your kids live with you as the primary parent...right? Draft your response here, Rip. We can work with you on this.
We have 50/50 so 2 weekday days with me, 2 with her and alternate weekends.
I'm not really sure what to say. Her point (without mind reading) is that she wants the boys the minute she's off work. So whether that's me dropping them off on my way to work that day (when she's not there) and still being able to lock my house or her picking them up on her way home (when I'm not there) and giving them a key, she's fine with either.
I've always been fine with them having and using their key they have to the house when they would walk home from school, so hard to now say I have a problem with them having a key to my place.
Really not sure how to approach it
Rip,
I want to be clear on this.
Kids have their own keys to Mom's house, right?
Kids currently do not have keys to YOUR house, right?
If that ^^ is correct, then why don't they have keys to your house? They are 11 and 8 which makes them responsible enough to have their own set of keys. I had my own set of keys at that age.
What seems to be the problem here?
That is correct. They don't have keys to my place because it's an apartment and there's no place for them to really go when I'm not there. Just haven't given them one.
I guess my issue is not whether or not they have the keys, it's that I'm not really liking the idea of my ww dropping them off and driving away without any interaction and then picking them up when I'm not home and having them lock it.
The part I'm not happy with is zero interaction. I get that we do db for us and drop the rope for us. But if that's truly the case, why the aspect of looking, smelling and acting your best in those interactions. Why have interactions at all? So they can see the changes, right.
While if I agree to this, ww will never see those changes.
Rip, dude, so you just lock the kids inside and go to work? What if there is an emergency or a fire?
Are you sure about this?
They have a cell phone that they can and do call my ww or me - we check in on them daily too. They have stayed home by themselves for the last 2-3 years. They know where to go to in my apartment in case of fire and for emergencies have the phone.
Quite sure about the boys when I'm at work, but I think we're getting off topic here . . .
None of my beeswax, but locking your kids without a key is a big nono in my book. With that in mind I would let the WAW take the kids, but not allow her in the apartment itself.
So kids have a key and they lock up after themselves and go with the waw. The kids will want their own keys any day now anyway...
K - thanks for that vapo. Not really my question about the kids.
Really question is if I give them the key and allow her to pick them up, that's giving her all the control to have ZERO interaction with me. Is that really what I should do?
again, my question is on future interaction with ww, not kids at home.
Rip,
I hear you buddy, I really do, but why would you want interaction with someone that does not want to interact with you. You are trying to control her and by that you are only hurting yourself. You have to let her go buddy, become the world's greatest dad and grow as a person in ways you never imagined. You are better than this. Why would you want someone that did this to you in your life? You will come to realize that you do not need anyone in your life that does not want to be in your life. As harsh as it sounds, what ever your W does is none of your business and as sad as it sound you should let her to it...
That is the only way she can "realize the error of her ways"...
Vapo - I get that. That makes sense. Why then does Michelle and others talk about DB techniques being to look and act your best in brief interactions if you should not want those interactions because you're better than that?
Okay, so the real issue has nothing to do about giving the kids a key. It is about leading to no interaction between you and WW, right?
I guess my issue is not whether or not they have the keys, it's that I'm not really liking the idea of my ww dropping them off and driving away without any interaction and then picking them up when I'm not home and having them lock it.
The part I'm not happy with is zero interaction. I get that we do db for us and drop the rope for us. But if that's truly the case, why the aspect of looking, smelling and acting your best in those interactions. Why have interactions at all? So they can see the changes, right.
While if I agree to this, ww will never see those changes.
Well, if you are calling yourself dropping the rope, you aren't suppose to plan any interactions. You stop trying to control things in order to have interactions......and that's what you seem to be doing by not giving the kids a key.
Rip -
I hear you. I've been dealing with the same things. My kids are going to day care during the summer on Mondays and Thursdays just so that we don't have to interact. But we still find some times to interact though admittedly rather rarely - we do still have kids together.
I don't see a way to not give them the key.
Sandi, Matt, everyone - that's what I felt. That by not giving the key I was controlling the situation and essentially forcing interactions. No problem. I will give them the key and have ww pick them up on her way home while I'm not there.
That's what she wants to do, so I'll continue to stay dark, GAL and work on me. No control over her or when we interact.
Got it.
You seem to be in a quandry over picking which choice is worse or better.
I have just as much issue that the kids are home alone, and although she may not be a fit parent, it is better than no one at all, I guess.
Give them the key, and that will help you with detachment, and it will in fact show her that you are changing, and letting go.
After I posted
Sandi, Matt, everyone - that's what I felt. That by not giving the key I was controlling the situation and essentially forcing interactions. No problem. I will give them the key and have ww pick them up on her way home while I'm not there.
That's what she wants to do, so I'll continue to stay dark, GAL and work on me. No control over her or when we interact.
Got it.
Good job
Rip buddy,
you have the fundametnals wrong... YOU ARE NOT CHANGING FOR HER, YOU ARE CHANGING FOR YOURSELF. But trust me, she will notice, they always do. Do not think for one second that just because you do not see her, she does not notice. There are hundreds of other channels for her...
But trust me, she will notice, they always do. Do not think for one second that just because you do not see her, she does not notice. There are hundreds of other channels for her...
Ripken, I read through your entire thread and our situations are very similar, minus the kids, which I know is a significant piece of the puzzle. I just wanted to let you know that I struggle with the point above too. In my sitch, I basically have zero interactions with my WW (we don't even have kids, so probably less than most). I've seen this question asked many times on this board and I haven't seen a satisfactory answer as to
HOW our WW's will notice our changes when they don't see us or talk to us. All I have seen are generalities or assumptions.
I'm hardly one to give advice since I'm so new to this process myself, but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you. Best of luck and stay strong!
Thriver,
you change for you, and not for your W. If you keep looking over your shoulder where your W is, it will drive you nuts. And also, if you change for her, then you will always be expecting results and if you do not see immediate results, frustration sets in. The goal is to find yourself, to find out that you can be happy for yourself by yourself and that you do not need another person to make you happy (only you can make you happy). If you count on an outside source to make you happy, you are setting yourself for disappointment...
Vapo and others. I HAVE and continue to change for myself - I don't want that point to be missed. Where I was getting confused and still don't know that it was answered was DB talks about looking your best, acting your best and being overly positive to ww in your interactions.
If we truly make changes for ourselves, why do that? It seems THAT aspect is really for her.
Vapo and others. I HAVE and continue to change for myself - I don't want that point to be missed. Where I was getting confused and still don't know that it was answered was DB talks about looking your best, acting your best and being overly positive to ww in your interactions.
If we truly make changes for ourselves, why do that? It seems THAT aspect is really for her.
Rip - I've been doing just this. Bought some new clothes, Cologne, shoes, etc. but I'm not doing it for her. I'm doing it to feel more confident. I'm doing it so that I can have better interactions with her when I do see or talk to her. I'm not doing it to try to impress her.
Hope that makes sense.
It does. However, I'm finding the more confident I'm getting and the more I'm away and apart from her, the less I care about having any interactions - sounds weird.
The reason I had the concern about the interactions or lack there of is I was/am worried that I will choose to no longer want her in my life because it's easier and better to not interact - I'm happier.
I just thought of an idea and know something that could help me. Will start a new thread soon.
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2576983#Post2576983