First Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2569248&page=1Feeling a little down today. Last week, I texted and emailed my WW a few times in regards to some financial issues and the court proceedings related to the divorce. I never received a response. Then out of the blue today she calls me. We spoke for 3 hours.
Topics of Conversation:
The DivorceShe has taken no action in getting our attorney friend to write the decree. Months ago, she said she was going to. Today, she said she didn't feel comfortable having our friend write it up. Instead, W wanted to use some standard form she found online. I told her I would prefer that we stick with the original plan and get our friend to write it. I told W that I would call our attorney friend tomorrow and get her the information she needed for the decree. W said ok.
BlameshiftingLet me start by saying that I don't know if the original OM or any other OM is still in the picture. I have not checked W's phone bill like I used to. It used to drive me crazy, so I stopped 6 months ago.
So, at one point in the conversation, W told me that what she did (the A) was wrong and she was sorry that it happened. (Note: she didn't say she was sorry for the pain she put me through, only that the A happened). Then she said that
I am partially to blame for her A. Unbelievable! I said no way, she was 100% responsible for her affair. She had a choice to make and she chose to have an A. That was not me. I stood firm here and refused to let her blame me for her A. I felt stronger here than I have been in the past.
She also mentioned again that I "made" her feel worthless throughout the last 2 years of our M. I told her I'm sorry she felt that way but it was not my intention to make her feel miserable. She mentioned a few specifics and I validated her feelings where appropriate. We also talked about the 2 IC's that we both saw and she said counseling was worthless. I felt like saying, "Well yeah, if you go in there with no intention of trying, it is worthless". I didn't say it obviously.
Remorse or Not?I can't remember why, but for some reason she brought up the topic of "being friends". I stated my boundary and let her know that we were not on "good terms" as long as there was an OM and she would have to show remorse for her actions. She said, "Oh well, I hardly talk to OM anymore, so I think we're good." I said that was not good enough.
The topic changed to remorse and what remorse was. She said she felt remorse and I said that she didn't. (I think this bit me later in the conversation
). I told her remorse requires not only caring about the BS's feeling more that your own, but also having and
showing empathy for the pain that you put them through. I said
remorse requires actions. She claimed that she was feeling
HER type of remorse. Truth is, she has no idea what true remorse is as it relates to infidelity and relationships. I don't know if she will ever understand. We must have talked for an hour on the subject and she just doesn't get it. So frustrating.
The CommentAt the end of the conversation I eloquently summarized how she felt. I can't remember the specifics but I said something like "I understand that you feel how you feel and that is not up to interpretation by me. Your feelings are your feelings and if I ever said you should not feel a certain way, I sincerely apologize."
We ended the conversation on some other topic.
The Call BackTwo minutes after we hang up, she calls me back extremely upset. She was raising her voice, and frankly, I was shocked by it. She said she had waited for 2 years to hear me say that (the comment above) and she was angry at me for not "getting it" sooner. More blaming. She continued to yell at me and I told her I "got it" the day of D-Day and I told her I said that exact thing on D-Day (I really did!). She could not recall me saying that. She said that if I would have told her that on D-Day, then we might have had a chance.
Why did she say this?Then she went into if I felt that way (what I mentioned about her having her feelings), why won't I believe that she is remorseful? I said I think we have different definitions of what remorse is. She said again that she feels remorseful and that I was telling her that she didn't.
How should I respond to this?Meaningless CrapShe tried to sprinkle the conversation with small talk about the weather, her dog, her job, etc. I engaged in that talk as little as possible. I feel very strongly like she's trying to "put me in the friendzone" and I will not let that happen. I will not be demoted. DB experts, is this an appropriate boundary for me to maintain?
SummaryI realize that I probably broke many of the DB rules in this conversation, but I felt I did better than I have done in past conversations. I validated her feelings like crazy, I did not beg, I did not cry. She initiated the relationship talk, but I suppose I could have ended it sooner instead of engaging in the conversation. I did make the mistake of mentioning that we had good times in the past and that she is only focusing on the negative.
If anyone has advice or comments on any of the topics above, I would appreciate it. I'm sure there will be some much needed 2x4's coming my way too. I'm ready for them.
Is she trying to reconcile? Are you interested?
Them being forgetful is a common trait.
Other than that she may be noticing some of your changes and testing them to see if they are real.
I suggest staying on the DB path, and if you did have any backslides, you just pick yourself up dust yourself off and get back on the right path.
P.S. - I would also suggest you stick to one thread until 100 posts.
She was raising her voice, and frankly, I was shocked by it. She said she had waited for 2 years to hear me say that (the comment above) and she was angry at me for not "getting it" sooner. More blaming. She continued to yell at me and I told her I "got it" the day of D-Day and I told her I said that exact thing on D-Day (I really did!). She could not recall me saying that. She said that if I would have told her that on D-Day, then we might have had a chance. Why did she say this?
Most likely because she's still in contact (if not more) with her OM. The level of sudden anger on her part strikes me that your apology and your acceptance of your role in your marital dysfunction (but not her affair -- good job there) has thrown her compartmentalizing equilibrium for a loop. (Basically, "How could I have done what I did to Thriver if he's NOT such an uncaring monster after all?")
As for "how to handle" the friend thing, I would urge you to just let it play out organically. Don't feel like you have to make some grand pronouncement in this regard, nor give he answers for everything she brings up. Maybe just a "We will have to see how our relationship plays out going forward, but you know where I stand on the affair and it's not going to change. Friends don't treat friends that way" or some such.
If she is still wayward, there's not much you're going to accomplish in such a long (3 hours??!) conversation. Here's how I feel about those conversations, taken from my personal archives:
Types of Convos
Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:
1) NEGATIVE ones. Blame-making, re-writing marital history, angry outbursts, fight-picking, etc. 'nuff said.
2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.
3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.
4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.
5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?
Puppy
It's also possible that she's p*ssed if what you suspect is true and that is that OM dropped her. So she may be thinking "Great, OM has dumped me and now Thriver is proving to be not the uncaring, non-understanding monster I thought he was and I'm too far down the divorce path now!" and she's freaking out.
As Cadet said, best to remain calm and just continue to DB. You have to demonstrate (even if just for yourself) that your changes are real, and the added bonus is that your wife WILL notice that.
Starsky
She was raising her voice, and frankly, I was shocked by it. She said she had waited for 2 years to hear me say that (the comment above) and she was angry at me for not "getting it" sooner. More blaming. She continued to yell at me and I told her I "got it" the day of D-Day and I told her I said that exact thing on D-Day (I really did!). She could not recall me saying that. She said that if I would have told her that on D-Day, then we might have had a chance. Why did she say this?
Most likely because she's still in contact (if not more) with her OM. The level of sudden anger on her part strikes me that your apology and your acceptance of your role in your marital dysfunction (but not her affair -- good job there) has thrown her compartmentalizing equilibrium for a loop. (Basically, "How could I have done what I did to Thriver if he's NOT such an uncaring monster after all?")
As for "how to handle" the friend thing, I would urge you to just let it play out organically. Don't feel like you have to make some grand pronouncement in this regard, nor give he answers for everything she brings up. Maybe just a "We will have to see how our relationship plays out going forward, but you know where I stand on the affair and it's not going to change. Friends don't treat friends that way" or some such.
If she is still wayward, there's not much you're going to accomplish in such a long (3 hours??!) conversation. Here's how I feel about those conversations, taken from my personal archives:
Types of Convos
Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:
1) NEGATIVE ones. Blame-making, re-writing marital history, angry outbursts, fight-picking, etc. 'nuff said.
2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.
3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.
4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.
5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?
Puppy
Thriver,
I'm with Starsky on utilizing intel to validate and confirm the appropriate DB strategy.
Starsky,
Pardon the hijack but we could really use some of your wisdom on my thread. We just were asking questions about the appropriate types of convo's for the LBS to have with the WW.
Defacto, just read your entire thread. I'm basically with 0324 and the advice you've been getting from him and Georgia Bulldogs -- you need to PULL BACK more. Your wife has no credible fear that she's losing you, from what I've read.
I'll try to stop by there and post more.
Starsky
Defacto, just read your entire thread. I'm basically with 0324 and the advice you've been getting from him and Georgia Bulldogs -- you need to PULL BACK more. Your wife has no credible fear that she's losing you, from what I've read.
I'll try to stop by there and post more.
Starsky
Wow. Thanks Starsky. I'd be grateful. Sorry, hijacking over.
Is she trying to reconcile? Are you interested?
Huddy, from day one, she has not expressed any true interest in reconciling. We had a false R last Summer for 1 week. She was still in contact with OM throughout that.
I am still interested in reconciling but not if there's an OM in the picture.
Not that someone could really reconcile if OM were still in the picture anyway, it would just be an attempt to cake eat by the WW.
I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.
I'm with Starsky on utilizing intel to validate and confirm the appropriate DB strategy.
Starsky and Defacto, can you elaborate here? What intel do I need? Early on, I snooped on W's phone and constantly looked at the phone bill to see when she was texting or talking to OM. I had to stop this for my own sanity and well-being. Are you suggesting I need to verify the existence of OM again and base my DB strategy on what I find?
Are you suggesting I need to verify the existence of OM again and base my DB strategy on what I find?
Only if continued contact and/or deceit is a dealbreaker for you.
I was watching MWD videos on youtube and found one called "Love is Contagious". She talked about a study that came out years ago that said "divorce is contagious".
So the idea is that if you hang out with people who are getting a divorce, it's likely to trigger in you your negative feelings about your own marriage and you'll get a divorce too.
She also mentioned that the opposite it true, LOVE is contagious and if you hang out with people who are deeply in love and have strong marriages, that spirit will rub off on you in a positive way and be good for your marriage.
I find this interesting in my sitch, because my W seems to only associate now with divorcing or divorced friends and keeps those that disagree with divorce at arms length. I guess this is common behavior for WW's. Anyone have any experience with this?
I find this interesting in my sitch, because my W seems to only associate now with divorcing or divorced friends and keeps those that disagree with divorce at arms length. I guess this is common behavior for WW's. Anyone have any experience with this?
Yep.
In every crumbling marriage I've seen there seems to be a "landscape" consisting of divorcing/divorced "friends", usually an OP and very often financial rubble.
These "friends", from what I can gather, tend to disappear without a trace once things settle down.
GH31
Yep, very common script.
Starsky
In every crumbling marriage I've seen there seems to be a "landscape" consisting of divorcing/divorced "friends", usually an OP and very often financial rubble.
These "friends", from what I can gather, tend to disappear without a trace once things settle down.
GH31
I really hope those friends just disappear, even if my W doesn't come back, I despise them so much. Two of my W's new friends, which are close to OM, both help her with info about OM and his GF. These two individuals are both M to other people and sleeping with each other.
When W told me about their situation a while back even she admitted it was messed up. But at least it was somewhat "better" because one of the two is going through a D. Yet still living with his W.
It makes me even more angry the woman is married to a man in the military who is stationed in another state. No clue if he knows whats going on.
So far from the people my W would hang out with before this. W even disowned her own sister for working as a bartender at a strip club, just the bartender. The reasoning was she was a "bad influence" around our D4. The irony of it all.
Yeah, pretty common. While wife is WW, she will drop people from her life that supported the M and you and only associate with new people who know nothing about you and only the story she tells. It's an addiction and she needs to surround herself with people who don't judge her and support her through her bad decisions.
Those friends who have gone through D and/or don't know you will only see her as unhappy and the fastest way to happiness is dropping you and moving on.
This is NOT the case and NOT logical, but logic and reason don't work with her right now. Again, she is not herself or who she was. She is an addict who needs her fix and will only be around the crowd that supports it until she hits rock bottom, if ever.
Starsky and Defacto, can you elaborate here? What intel do I need? Early on, I snooped on W's phone and constantly looked at the phone bill to see when she was texting or talking to OM. I had to stop this for my own sanity and well-being. Are you suggesting I need to verify the existence of OM again and base my DB strategy on what I find?
I understand your dilemma. I agree that constantly checking phone records, etc is tough on the LBS. What I've done is sporadically check, especially if there was something WW did or said that hints at possibile end of A. If you have nothing that leads you to believe that, don't look because you know what you'll find.
One of my good friends got D'ed, 3 yrs ago. I believe a lot of the things he said resonated with my X. Perhaps helping her to come to her decision.
Journaling...
Last week, I talked to the mutual friend attorney that will be writing the final decree. I sent her an email and provided all the information she needed (VIN's, legal descriptions for property, account numbers, etc.). I outlined it all, everything that W and I had agreed to as far as asset split was concerned. For those of you who aren't following my sitch, I still don't want a divorce, but WW shows no signs of changing her mind or even budging, so I must protect myself financially. Besides, there's nothing I can do to change her mind anyways, right? I should focus on me.
The attorney responded to my email and cc'ed my WW. She said:
"I'm happy that you 2 have reached an agreement and I'm glad to assist, but only if you both agree to it. Before I begin writing your decree, WW, please let me know if you agree to waive any conflict and have me draft up your agreements. I sent you a text on this last week but did not get a response from you. Thriver and WW – please cc each other on all emails."
That was on Thursday, 6/4. Today is Monday, 6/8, and still no response from WW.
Here's what I don't get...8 months ago, WW was gung ho about filing for the divorce, splitting stuff up, kicking me out of her life, separating and moving on with her life. Now, I can't even get her to return a simple email or text message about these subjects. Is this normal behavior for a WW? Any advice on how to handle this?
you don't have to handle it. that's why you have an atty. don't borrow stress you don't need!
I should clarify...she is not officially representing either of us, she just agreed to draft the paperwork for free to help us out and save us on attorney's fees.
My WW refuses to finalize what she started and is dragging this out for some reason by not responding to emails or texts. I feel like I have no choice but to finalize the paperwork myself. Is this a bad idea or does it go against any DB principles?
Depends, is D what you want or are you just finalizing it for her?
Depends, is D what you want or are you just finalizing it for her?
Fogg - No, I don't want the D, but I'm getting closer to that place where I can see myself being happy with or without her in my life. I couldn't have imagined that 9 months ago. I'm nowhere near ready to start dating, but right now, I'm tired of limbo, I'm tired of her not caring and I'm tired of her selfish behavior.
I don't know what to do, I'm very confused and can't think straight after a year of this mess. We have a final court date in mid-July, although it will probably be moved up since I will be out of state that week.
I don't want the D, I just want to be prepared.Knowing that, how should I handle this? Should I:
1. Have the paperwork drawn up and ready for the eventual court date and only respond if she initiates some action.
2. Let the WW finish what she started.
3. Something else...
Was hoping for some advice on the concerns in my previous post.
Thanks in advance.
Thriver,
I don't feel comfortable giving advice in this area.
Can any vets give Thriver some help?
If shes not pressing for D, and you don't want a D, stop doing the work for her.
Is there a court date scheduled already? Or does she need this form to file/get the court date?
If shes not pressing for D, and you don't want a D, stop doing the work for her.
Is there a court date scheduled already? Or does she need this form to file/get the court date?
Thanks for responding Fogg. Yes, there is a court date scheduled for mid-July. The only reason I'm doing any work at all is to be prepared (I was/am an Eagle Scout). The L has all the information she needs. Once the paperwork is drawn up, I think will backoff doing any work and let W finish what she started.
I'm not a vet, but I'm having trouble understanding. Let me make sure I'm clear:
- WW wants a divorce but isn't willing to do anything to make it happen
- you do not want a divorce
I get protecting yourself financially. I don't know the details of your finances, so I don't know what she's "getting" still being married. Is there a lifestyle you're supporting now that she wouldn't maintain after a D?
Ultimately, in my opinion, if you don't want a divorce, stop greasing the wheels.
Matt, thanks for your advice.
As with most of the situations I've read on this board, mine is complicated. Let me try to clear it up:
- W filed for divorce almost 1 year ago
- I resisted (a lot) in the first few months, did all the wrong things (begged, pleaded, cried, pursued)
- We physically separated 9 months ago and split up financial accounts and assets (property, vehicles, cash, retirement accounts)
- Since the separation, she has taken no action to finalize the divorce. In fact, she missed our first court date and keeps asking me when "our" court dates are!?!
- It's like she's perfectly ok with maintaining this separated state and I don't know why.
- To answer your question, she is "getting" nothing from still being married. Everything is separated and we are both supporting ourselves at this point
- She is certainly not getting any emotional needs met by me because we have very little contact.
- Also, no cake-eating from her.
That's it in a nutshell.
The pursuer/distancer dynamic does not exist in our relationship. I pull back and W couldn't care less.
I cannot fathom how WW's refuse to acknowledge that there were any good times in their marriage.
Any WW's out there that can shed some light on this? Is it all emotion and zero logic? How do they allow themselves to be driven purely on emotion? It must be a terrible way to go thru life.
Thriver,
Don't waste your time dwelling on this. It's just fog induced, revisionist history. Nothing you can do to change WW's mind right now so don't try. It will just make matters worse.
Instead, focus on the things you can control.
The pursuer/distancer dynamic does not exist in our relationship. I pull back and W couldn't care less.
I get this as well. All WW can do with me is two emotional states. Angry or very angry. Funny, no apathy yet.
Any WW's out there that can shed some light on this? Is it all emotion and zero logic? How do they allow themselves to be driven purely on emotion? It must be a terrible way to go thru life.
Yes, all emotional based and no logic describes the WW. It is a destructive way to go through life, but she can't really see it at this point. Negative feelings toward you and the M may have been the beginning of her emotions getting out front of her decision making. At some point, her ego was fed by OM and her emotions leaped into high gear b/c she wantedt more of what he had to offer. It grew and the A became exciting, which fueled the emotions driving it.
She may have wanted a D when she was heavy into the A, but if she's been dumped by OM then she could be feeling a some emotional insecurity. Some women think they just have to have a man at all times.
We have learned that cherial cheaters often find a different OM to start another A or rely on the H to be her backup plan, until she can find better. That 'could' be her reason for dragging her feet about the D papers. Pure speculation on my part.
The D is a decision you have to make for yourself. To proceed in hopes it will shake her to her senses is a gamble. Nobody really knows how she may react. By reading your posts, I don't think she has remorse for her actions. Her reactions to what you said about her lack of remore, alone, is evident she is still wayward in her heart, even if she's not in an active A, presently.
The pursuer pursuit thing does not work in my relationship either.
She could care less.
No pursuit from me and no reaction from W.
It seems pretty clear to me.
The pursuer pursuit thing does not work in my relationship either.
She could care less.
No pursuit from me and no reaction from W.
It seems pretty clear to me.
That happens - it does
not mean you should start a vigorous pursuit of her - IMHO
Thanks for the responses everyone. Sorry it took so long to reply - been GAL'ing all weekend.
Yes, all emotional based and no logic describes the WW. It is a destructive way to go through life, but she can't really see it at this point.
Sandi (or other WWs), do you think WWs ever "see it" or do they go through life letting emotions drive every decision?
Do they ever find true happiness or do they just "think" that they are happy at the moment? I ask because my WW has stated that she is
happy without me. I'm currently GAL and making positive changes in my life (for me) but this statement from her makes me think "Why would she ever want to come back then?"
She may have wanted a D when she was heavy into the A, but if she's been dumped by OM then she could be feeling a some emotional insecurity. Some women think they just have to have a man at all times.
We have learned that cherial cheaters often find a different OM to start another A or rely on the H to be her backup plan, until she can find better. That 'could' be her reason for dragging her feet about the D papers. Pure speculation on my part.
Thriver, how long of a marriage does your jurisdiction consider a "long-term marriage" for purposes of spousal support? It's possible she may not being "emotional" about her strategy at all. Anything special kick in at 5 years of marriage, or 15 years of long-term relationship ("common law marriage")?
Starsky
Thriver, how long of a marriage does your jurisdiction consider a "long-term marriage" for purposes of spousal support?
You have to be married a minimum of 10 years to receive spousal support in my state.
It's possible she may not being "emotional" about her strategy at all. Anything special kick in at 5 years of marriage, or 15 years of long-term relationship ("common law marriage")?
According to the laws of my state, we were never common-law married. My state requires the following to be considered a common-law marriage:
1. That we agreed to be married (we didn't)
2. We live together as husband and wife (we lived together but we were just BF/GF at the time.)
3. We represent ourselves as married in public. (I.e. we tell people that we are married...we never did this)
Don't think WW can play the alimony or the common-law card, but thanks for bringing that up Starsky.
Journaling....and questions.
Lately, I've been thinking about the very little interaction I have with WW since we are separated. I only initiate contact with regards to finances. No kids.
Will a WW perceive my lack of contact and detachment as "more of the same" behavior from me? One of her complaints about our M was that I was not always "there" for her emotionally so she just stopped caring.
I'm just wondering if I should initiate more contact with her in a non-pursuing way? Or will she just perceive that as pursuit? I read somewhere about keeping the road back paved smooth. Does that apply in DB?
On the GAL front...went fishing on Saturday then a buddy came over to help me brew a milk stout. I'm very much into home brewing beer. Skydiving planned for Thursday - my second jump! Then celebrating Father's Day with my Dad this weekend.
Just trying to live my life to the fullest but I am still very lonely. When I was with W, I always felt like we had each other's backs. I felt confident knowing I had someone in my corner. I find that lacking now and it's very sad.
Thriver, how long of a marriage does your jurisdiction consider a "long-term marriage" for purposes of spousal support?
You have to be married a minimum of 10 years to receive spousal support in my state.
It's possible she may not being "emotional" about her strategy at all. Anything special kick in at 5 years of marriage, or 15 years of long-term relationship ("common law marriage")?
According to the laws of my state, we were never common-law married. My state requires the following to be considered a common-law marriage:
1. That we agreed to be married (we didn't)
2. We live together as husband and wife (we lived together but we were just BF/GF at the time.)
3. We represent ourselves as married in public. (I.e. we tell people that we are married...we never did this)
Don't think WW can play the alimony or the common-law card, but thanks for bringing that up Starsky.
OK, cool -- thanks.
Thriver, have you ever dated others during this period of separation from your wife? I know it's a HIGHLY touchy subject (and I can tell you my own opinion if you want to know, I'm right-of-center but not totally against it, under certain conditions), but considering how far along (23rd hour, 30 minutes) in your D sitch it could be the only last-minute "jolt" you could play. IF your wife is still romantically attracted to you, it can be an effective TACTIC (and I emphasis tactic, but it's NOT a strategy and doesn't really solve anything other than to get them to stop and about-face temporarily).
Just a thought.
Starsky
I have not dated. I don't think I am ready to date even if it means "jolting" my W out of her current thinking. As you said, there is much debate on the issue and I fall into the "no dating while you're married (even if your wife had an A and currently wants nothing to do with you)" camp. Call me old-fashioned but I made a commitment to that woman (or whoever she is now) and I will stick by it until we are D'd.
I don't see much changing between me and W if we end up getting divorced. We might as well already be divorced. We are separated, I haven't seen her in 9 months, we don't really talk. All that will be different will be a little piece of paper saying Thriver and WW are not legally married anymore. It doesnt terrify me as much as it used to. I feel like I've been divorced for over a year already.
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
Lately, I've been thinking about the very little interaction I have with WW since we are separated. I only initiate contact with regards to finances. No kids.
Will a WW perceive my lack of contact and detachment as "more of the same" behavior from me? One of her complaints about our M was that I was not always "there" for her emotionally so she just stopped caring.
I'm just wondering if I should initiate more contact with her in a non-pursuing way? Or will she just perceive that as pursuit? I read somewhere about keeping the road back paved smooth. Does that apply in DB?
Extremely sad today. Just having one of those days. I miss my W terribly. Well, not the cold, distant, selfish WW monster that she currently is, but who she used to be.
I haven't seen her in 9 months, no physical contact in 14 months. I'm tired of this crap. How can WW's cause so much pain and not even bat an eye?!?
I've been by her side for 12 years, through good times and bad. I don't deserve this.
Extremely sad today. Just having one of those days. I miss my W terribly. Well, not the cold, distant, selfish WW monster that she currently is, but who she used to be.
I haven't seen her in 9 months, no physical contact in 14 months. I'm tired of this crap. How can WW's cause so much pain and not even bat an eye?!?
I've been by her side for 12 years, through good times and bad. I don't deserve this.
I hear you brother. I get like that. Especially at night alone in bed.
Peace
I'm so sorry, thriver. It does get better, I promise you.
Starsky
Thanks NDY and Starsky.
There's so much unnecessary pain on this board caused by our WAWs or WWs. I've never been one to make decisions based on emotions. I'm a very analytical person so it drives me crazy that WWs do NOT SEE LOGIC!
WW and I have a mutual friend. We get together every now and then to shoot guns and BBQ out at his ranch. It's always a good time.
Because of the situation between me and W, this friend has been put in a difficult position and doesn't really want to "take sides". He was one of the first people I exposed W's affair to over a year ago. I don't think he really believes the extent of her A. From what I gather, he thinks it was probably just a one time thing and she just checked out of the M a long time ago. He is quick to forgive because his personality type is very non-confrontational.
Last time he and I were together, he made a comment like "Whenever your name (thriver) comes up in conversation with W, she only has nice things to say about you." What?! Why does she say nice things about me to him? Is this a game? She doesn't say nice things about me to my face or on the phone, so why would she tell him nice things? Is this to keep up the "friend" narrative that she so desperately wants to portray?
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but this comment really threw me for a loop. I'd like to hear from any former WW's that could provide some insight. Did you and your LBS have mutual friends? Were any of your interactions like this?
Lately, I've been thinking about the very little interaction I have with WW since we are separated. I only initiate contact with regards to finances. No kids.
Will a WW perceive my lack of contact and detachment as "more of the same" behavior from me? One of her complaints about our M was that I was not always "there" for her emotionally so she just stopped caring.
I'm just wondering if I should initiate more contact with her in a non-pursuing way? Or will she just perceive that as pursuit? I read somewhere about keeping the road back paved smooth. Does that apply in DB?
This is copied from my WW thread.
First, the H has to see his own part of the downfall in the MR and work very hard to improve himself as a man. Notice, I said "man" and not H. The reason I said that is b/c the M is past the point of him showing her what an improved husband he can be. She is not interested in him as her H. If he now starts trying to implement all the things he sees he should have done in the past, it will hurt his effectiveness in getting this stitch turned around. For the WW, it is much too late, and she no longer cares about you doing those things. Based on what most newcomer LBH'S say, they think spending more time with the kids, showering the W with more attention, doing the housework, cooking, and running her errands (basically catering to her) will do the trick.
You've asked a question a newcomer will usually ask shortly after the first few posts. I think you are panicking and desperately looking for a last minute fix, or second guessing DBing techniques. IMO, initiating more contacts is pursuing.
Stay calm. Try to keep peaceful thoughts tonight. Be good to yourself, and don't let your mind wander into trying to analyze your W. Just do this to get through this night, okay?
((hugs))
Sandi, thank you for your response. I made it through the night. I'm trying to stay calm and you're right, I am
quite desperate. My divorce date is only a 3 weeks away, so I'm not confident that DB'ing will work while we're still married. However, I will continue DB'ing even after divorce until there is no more hope. Currently, I will still have hope and pray every day that God restores our marriage. Only I can determine when the hope is gone and when to stop trying.
Last time he (our mutual friend) and I were together, he made a comment like "Whenever your name (thriver) comes up in conversation with W, she only has nice things to say about you." What?! Why does she say nice things about me to him? Is this a game? She doesn't say nice things about me to my face or on the phone, so why would she tell him nice things? Is this to keep up the "friend" narrative that she so desperately wants to portray?
Regarding the question I posed earlier in my thread...Does anyone have any thoughts on the WW saying nice things about the LBS to others? I'm curious if anyone else's WW/WAW did that. Is it common behavior?
Hi Thriver. , I have read all your posts and I hope you don't mind my posting but your still focusing on what your W says and does Again I hope you don't mind biut I have made a list below of what my EXW says almost weekly , shes gone 8 months now
1. Our M was almost all good
2. She loves me and family more than anything
3. She wants to come home but can't after what's happened ( she is denying OM and our councelllor belives her)
4 I'm her best friend and I'm the only person in the world she trusts
5. She thinks I'm a fantastic dad
6 she tells her sister I'm not the problem but she's
Lost
7 EXW thinks she's depressed
8. EXW posts on Facebook daily how sad her life is and Hows she's lost everything g
9 EXW talks of suicide
10. EXW cannot come into family home without crying
Thriver , I could read anything I wanted into the above but at the end of the day it's just words It could mean she wants to come home, it could mean she no longer wants OM. It could mean she's mentally unbalanced
My point is at some point you have to stop trying to analyse your Ws words and carry on with your life What you W says or does means nothing UNTIL she wants to discuss R with you
I'm not a vet and far from it but I see myself in your posts Your searching for hope anywhere you can and while that's understandable, it gets you no where
Let W go , get on with your life while DBIng Don't let what' W says affect your mood and if it does put it out of your mind asap
Life will be good again. Take care. Rd
What you W says or does means nothing UNTIL she wants to discuss R with you.
Thanks RD. You're absolutely right about this.
Your searching for hope anywhere you can and while that's understandable, it gets you no where.
I've heard conflicting opinions about hope. Some say hope is pointless. Others say there's nothing wrong with hope and only you (the LBS) can say when there's no more hope. I tend to lean towards the latter.
But you're right, since I have a little hope left, I tend to latch on to every action of W and go into "analysis paralysis". That has the analytical/engineer part of my brain working overtime. I try to turn it off, but it's hard.
I need some advice.
Background - My WW and I have been separated for 9 months. She's living in the marital home because during the asset split, we agreed she would take the home and I would keep my retirement in tact. I'm living elsewhere right now.
However, I am still paying the mortgage and other random bills. I usually pay them for a couple of months and then send an email to W to send me a reimbursement check - and she does. Well around 5 days ago, I sent her an email to send me the latest check for what she owes me, and she never responds (this is pretty typical). It's like pulling teeth to get her to respond to an email/text. Then today she texts me out of the blue asking ME for a favor. She said her phone is dying and she's going to the store today to get a new one and she wants me to transfer the billing responsibility for her phone to her. I should mention that I've been trying to transfer the responsibility to her for about 6 months now. Every time I do my part, she NEVER does her part of accepting it. Now, she is asking ME to do it? WTH?!
How should I handle this? Here are my options as I see them:
1. Treat her like I would treat a co-worker, be polite and say "Ok, I'll transfer it today". I'm afraid that if I do this favor for her, it's basically like me "fixing" something for her and I would appear weak in her eyes. Should I take the high road and respond politely even when she never extends me the same courtesy?
2. Wait a day or two and then respond with same response as option 1.
3. Ignore it completely. This will almost guarantee that she calls me asking for the same.
4. Other.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
But you're right, since I have a little hope left, I tend to latch on to every action of W and go into "analysis paralysis". That has the analytical/engineer part of my brain working overtime. I try to turn it off, but it's hard.
Hello Thriver,
What a struggle you are going through. I can truly relate as my WAW has been gone 8 months, too. I really feel your pain and I know you are trying so hard to make things work. You do still have hope! Sandi and Rd gave you solid gold advice recently. Please try to do your best to understand what they are saying and why.
Once you can break free from the "analysis paralysis" that will allow you more time to work on things that you can control. I understand this as well. Especially in the first 3-4 months my W was gone, I was the
exact same way.
We have your back. You will get thru this somehow.
Your friend,
Bob
Thanks for your kind words Bob. I've been keeping up with your sitch and I see many similarities between our Ws. I think you are handling it very well and you're getting some great advice from the pros. It certainly is hard not to try and decipher every interaction we have with them, isn't it?
I'm a man of faith, so I pray to God and listen for His guidance. I'm not giving up yet.
Does anyone have any guidance as to how I should respond to W's text message?
Since we have so few interactions, I want to make sure I get the max effectiveness from the ones we do have. Please help.
Does anyone have any guidance as to how I should respond to W's text message?
Since we have so few interactions, I want to make sure I get the max effectiveness from the ones we do have. Please help.
I haven't responded yet but I think I will today.
Friends, how should I respond?
Hello Thriver,
Just skimming through your sitch....I would go wih Number 1.
Just get it over with and have her be responsible for her own phone bill.
I wouldn't be paying the mortgage either. She fired you as her husband and guess what??? Being responsible for your own bills comes with that decision.
I'm no expert and this is only my humble opinion, but she needs to see and feel what it will be like when the divorce finalizes this month.
Hope this helps.
Diana
Hi Thriver. I would agree with Diane. Number 1. she's a big girl and she's asked for control of her phone billing. No brainer. At the moment your M is over. That's absolute crap for you but it's what your W wants.
For me , I let EXW get in with every thing and only offer help when I feel it's right. At the end of this process ( and there will be an end ) you will have wanted to take the high road.
Getting back to hope, you can always have hope it's just looking for hope from your Ws words and actions. If your W wants to reconcile you will know.
Life will get better but for now the only way is to be the best you that's posible and deal with your own life
Take care. Rd
Well, the D was supposed to be finalized next week, but I will be out of state (on vacation/GAL
) all of next week. I called the L and asked her if it would be an issue and she said she would move the court date. So now, it looks like our final court date is at least a couple of months away. Gotta love how efficient our court system is...lol
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Since WW has made no attempt to reach out to me in over a year (unless she wants a favor), part of me wants this limbo crap to be over with, so I can have some sort of closure. The other part of me wants to delay it in the hopes that WW will "snap out of it". Yeah, yeah, I know that's not going to happen and if it does, I cannot control it. So hard, I think about her a lot.
So right now, I'm going to focus on the vacation I have planned for next week and the great time that I will have. Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Also, I went ahead a replied to WW that I will transfer her part the phone bill to her.
Diane and RD, thanks for your guidance on this.
I had a short text exchange with WW this morning about the phone bill transfer. She is cold, demanding and selfish. I transferred the phone so she would be responsible or her own bill, as she requested. No response. No thank you. Nothing.
Did I really marry this horrible of a person?!
Did I really marry this horrible of a person?!
No, she is not the girl you married.
Hi Sandi, thanks for checking in on me. I'm doing alright - on a little out-of-state vacation with some of my family. Having a good time! We plan on hiking in the mountains tomorrow, kayaking and maybe hitting a brewery or 2 on the way back to where we're staying.
I'm not sure if you're keeping up with my sitch, but my D date has been moved to August sometime since I was going to be out of town. My WW still makes no attempt to reach out to me, still acts cold, distant and angry. Nothing I can do about that except stay the course on improving me. If we get D'd, then we get D'd. I'm no longer as afraid of that piece of paper as I once was, so I feel like I've had some growth in that aspect.
Sandi, I've read where you have mentioned thay the WW must experience some significant loss in order to have a chance at "breaking the fog" so to speak. I don't think my WW has experienced a significant loss. In fact, she's pretty comfortable in her current life (or so she SAYS). I will stay my course, but I don't see this resolving itself anytime soon.
I had a short text exchange with WW this morning about the phone bill transfer. She is cold, demanding and selfish. I transferred the phone so she would be responsible or her own bill, as she requested. No response. No thank you. Nothing.
Well, after a couple of months, I'm just checking in with the board. Not much has changed in my sitch, other than the final date for the D is scheduled for sometime in October. My WW still makes no attempt to reach out to me. We haven't talked in over 3 months and it's been almost a year since I've seen her in person. I have been doing many GAL activities and trying to not focus on her or what she is doing, but I still find myself thinking about some of the good times we had together (even though she claims "we NEVER had any good times").
I quoted the above post because after all the demands that WW made to remove her from our phone bill, so she would be responsible for the billing, I finally did transfer from my side. Unfortunately, she never completed the transfer from her side.
When my phone bill came this month, I found out that now have 2 separate plans on my bill and they are both still my billing responsibility. And since they are separate plans, the monthly total is more!
I don't understand why she asks me to do something and then when I do it, I don't receive any acknowledgement from her, and then she doesn't complete her end of the deal!
Still trying to figure her out, huh? You can't.
Glad to hear you are GAL.
Can you have the phone co. drop her part from your plan? I don't think you should just roll over and pay it, considering everything.
I'm struggling a lot right now with the concept of remorse. If you ask my WW, she says she is remorseful. In my opinion, I have not seen remorse from her. Guilt, shame, regret? Yes. Remorse? No.
From my reading, a truly remorseful WW will put their LBS and their feelings first, without question. They will take actions to show the LBS that they are truly sorry. They will move heaven and earth to heal the pain that they caused. They will setup MC sessions and go NC with the OM. They will do whatever it takes.
I have seen none of this from my STBXW - and I doubt I ever will. When she tells me she has remorse, should I respectfully call her out on it and say I don't believe her (because I don't)? She has told me on many occasions, she wants to be friends and she has remorse. She says she is showing "her kind of remorse", whatever that means?!?! How should I handle this conversation when I don't believe her.
Any vets out there have advice on what true remorse looks like, or experience with remorse and their WW's?
She has told me on many occasions, she wants to be friends and she has remorse. She says she is showing "her kind of remorse", whatever that means?!?! How should I handle this conversation when I don't believe her.
Any vets out there have advice on what true remorse looks like, or experience with remorse and their WW's?
Anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?
She may think she is being remorseful over whats happened. She could feel bad about the pain shes caused you and not be prepared to fix it or start a new R.
I understand with the pain you have been through you want it to be acknowledged by her, you want to see her really remorseful. I want to see the same, but it may not happen, especially if she still wants a D.
You cant make her feel a certain way so not sure you can do anything.
Hey Thriver, good to see you posting again. The definition of remorse is an
emotional expression of personal regret felt by a person after
they have committed an act which they deem to be shameful, hurtful, or violent. That's the book's definition.
The type or amount of emotional expression probably depends upon the individual. When it comes to serious relationships, such as marriage, it would seem if a wayward was truly sorry for their wayward actions, then the BS would see some kind of evidence. As to how much that wayward spouse would do, depends on where they are in life. For instance, some are in another M and get dumped before they start feeling remorse for how they treated their first H.
How does a person truly regret their deed and then continue doing it? Isn't that what addicts and abusers do? How does a person have remorse and their attitude never change? Remorse goes deeper than just having a hard cry, and then repeating the same behavior, but that may be JMHO. As long as the WW says she regrets the A, but you never see any evidence of her wanting to make things right with you, I would say it's just words without the emotional expression of wanting the marriage reconciled.
In most of the stories that come through here, the WW says she want to be friends with the BH. But what she sees as a friendship with him is not what he sees. As long as she has a wayward heart, her motives will be selfish. He needs to examine the "friendship" from the view as if she were M to another man. Would he be her friend, then? And, don't confuse friendliness with being a BFF. IMHO, the only time to become a friend to a spouse who betrayed you, is when they repent (and turn away from that behavior) and both are working to reconcile the M. That is the time to start out as friends, then slowly go to dating. During this dating period, have professional MC to help get you back on the right track.....and keep you there.
From my reading, a truly remorseful WW will put their LBS and their feelings first, without question. They will take actions to show the LBS that they are truly sorry. They will move heaven and earth to heal the pain that they caused. They will setup MC sessions and go NC with the OM. They will do whatever it takes.
I think a word missing here might be "willingness". If a WW wants to reunite with the H she betrayed, then she should be willing to do whatever it takes to heal the MR. There may be some cases where the WW is so distraught, or perhaps has sank so low, that she feels it is hopeless to think her H would even give her a second chance. (I'm not seeing it in your WW).
IMO, the H needs to lay out a transparency plan, boundaries, some type of professional guidance, etc. He is the one who is (or should be) in the position to call the shots. She needs to understand that she is the one who has to earn his trust........and not the other way around. She is the one with the burden of proof on her shoulders. If she resents any of it, then she needs IC (who is pro-marriage). You can't heal a M that holds resentment and unforgiveness.
The attitude always gives away the true intent of a WW. It may take a little time, but eventually her colors show in her attitude. There have been a lot of men who were so eager to get the WW back home, that no consequences, stipulations, or work was required for her. I don't recall one case where it succeeded. The time to make the plans of agreement to R the M is if/when she actually wants to return. And don't accept that old bait of her saying, "I've been thinking about maybe going back home", or her asking something like, "What would you do if I packed my bags and came home"? Nope, it's not that simple, honey.
The number of WW's that wanted to return without doing any work, is in the majority. They want to pick up where it left off, and to act as if nothing ever happened. It doesn't work. Something DID happen. A lot happened! If she goes home under those conditions......it will only be a matter of time before she hurts him again. Why? B/c she won't really respect him for taking her back so easily. She would be more attracted to a man who caused her to have to work to be with him.
I understand with the pain you have been through you want it to be acknowledged by her, you want to see her really remorseful. I want to see the same, but it may not happen, especially if she still wants a D.
Thanks for your feedback Fogg. You are absolutely right. After all we have been through, I don't understand how a human being could be so heartless and cold. I agree that there is nothing I can do to move her along in her remorse process, if she ever gets there.
Cold may not be all bad. My H regularly apologizes for hurting me but still wants a divorce. It's horrible.
Cold may not be all bad. My H regularly apologizes for hurting me but still wants a divorce. It's horrible.
Becky, I just caught up on your sitch. I'm so sorry your H is treating you this way. Stay strong and try not to mind read too much. My W is dragging out the D too even though she was the one that filed. I've questioned her actions over and over again, but soon discovered it's not productive, because I cannot change them.
As long as the WW says she regrets the A, but you never see any evidence of her wanting to make things right with you, I would say it's just words without the emotional expression of wanting the marriage reconciled.
Exactly right Sandi. She has said she was sorry, but as far as making things right with me, not even close IMO. She shows no interest in reconciling or even contacting me, despite my going dark. She doesn't even respond to my emails about strictly financial items.
As long as she has a wayward heart, her motives will be selfish. He needs to examine the "friendship" from the view as if she were M to another man. Would he be her friend, then? And, don't confuse friendliness with being a BFF. IMHO, the only time to become a friend to a spouse who betrayed you, is when they repent (and turn away from that behavior) and both are working to reconcile the M.
I don't even know if WW is currently seeing the original OM or if she's moved onto another one or if she's not even looking for one right now. You do bring up a good point though, that as long as she is "wayward at heart", it will all be about her selfish needs and desires.
No, I will not be her friend, and I told her the same several months ago. She fired me as her H and she does not get to demote me to BFF. She seems ok with it.
I think a word missing here might be "willingness". If a WW wants to reunite with the H she betrayed, then she should be willing to do whatever it takes to heal the MR. There may be some cases where the WW is so distraught, or perhaps has sank so low, that she feels it is hopeless to think her H would even give her a second chance. (I'm not seeing it in your WW).
If this was the case, is there any way I should communicate to her that it's not too late and I would give her a chance if she repents and turns away from her destructive behavior?
IMO, the H needs to lay out a transparency plan, boundaries, some type of professional guidance, etc. He is the one who is (or should be) in the position to call the shots. She needs to understand that she is the one who has to earn his trust........and not the other way around.
How do I do this?
And don't accept that old bait of her saying, "I've been thinking about maybe going back home", or her asking something like, "What would you do if I packed my bags and came home"? Nope, it's not that simple, honey.
Not a chance. I'm committed to not letting this happen. I've worked too hard on myself in the last year to let her come back without putting in the work on herself. If she ever did say something like that, what would be the best response?
For my sitch, it's the 11th hour. Unless a miracle happens, we will be D'd next month. The court date is set. I guess I have to accept it at this point. But that doesn't mean I'm giving up the fight. I'll continue to GAL, I'll continue to move on from this painful experience, I'll continue to enforce my boundaries.
I would appreciate some feedback on my questions. Goodnight friends.
Thanks. It looks like your sitch has been going on a long time. I can't imagine hanging in there that long. 99.9% of me hopes H excepts my settlement proposal and we can just get this over with. We'll see what happens.
Sandi and others...putting these questions back out there hoping someone can offer advice or guidance. Thanks in advance.
I think a word missing here might be "willingness". If a WW wants to reunite with the H she betrayed, then she should be willing to do whatever it takes to heal the MR. There may be some cases where the WW is so distraught, or perhaps has sank so low, that she feels it is hopeless to think her H would even give her a second chance. (I'm not seeing it in your WW).
IMO, the H needs to lay out a transparency plan, boundaries, some type of professional guidance, etc. He is the one who is (or should be) in the position to call the shots. She needs to understand that she is the one who has to earn his trust........and not the other way around.
And don't accept that old bait of her saying, "I've been thinking about maybe going back home", or her asking something like, "What would you do if I packed my bags and came home"? Nope, it's not that simple, honey.
Not a chance. I'm committed to not letting this happen. I've worked too hard on myself in the last year to let her come back without putting in the work on herself.
If she ever did say something like that, what would be the best response?For my sitch, it's the 11th hour. Unless a miracle happens, we will be D'd next month. The court date is set. I guess I have to accept it at this point. But that doesn't mean I'm giving up the fight. I'll continue to GAL (despite my fear that I'll end up being alone), I'll continue to move on from this painful experience, I'll continue to enforce my boundaries.
I would appreciate some feedback on my questions. Goodnight friends.
Feeling down this morning. Divorce court date is just 2 weeks away. Reality has set in pretty hard for me. I'm sad for what I'm losing but at the same time know we can't continue on the path we're on until SHE is willing to do the work, which may be never.
Tips on what to do after court so I don't dwell on it too much??
i wish i had some answers for you on what to do after and on the other questions you have posted.
I am having a rough one as well and wanted to let you know you are not alone. the only thing i do know is that we are not the first or the last to go through these times and people do move on and get better as impossible as it feels to myself right now. I know this to be true.
funny thing is this is the time i know i am supposed to look strong and i feel the weakest.
I've made it through hell and back with my wife. Relationships have up's and down's. You should be honest about your feelings. It's never too late to be honest. If you really don't want this divorce then just say so. I just read through your entire thread and it appeared to me, that it might appear to her, that you're the one who is done with her and have no desire to stay together. If you love her and she loves you then everything else is just the noise of life. That's just my 2 cents. I've been married to my wife for almost 30 years. I adore her. She adores me and that's all we need. All the BS that has almost broken us up over the years turns out to be silly bullsh*t in the long run. Love is all you need (corny I know, but true).
Perhaps I've gone TOO dark? But I really have no reason to initiate contact (as per the DB rules). We don't have kids, so I only initiate contact in regards to finances.
I don't know, the distancer/pursuer thing has never worked in our R. I guess that says a lot.
With divorce only a few days away, I wonder about what you said TxHubby. Have I gone so dark and shown her that I'm tying up loose ends (financially) that it appears to her that I'm done and would never take her back? That's not the case. I would take her back if she put in the proper work and showed genuine remorse. I won't take her back as "just a friend".
Since it's the 11'th hour of this thing, I'm wondering if I should just have the
"I don't want a D and I'm still open to R. Are you sure this is what you want?" and then leave it at that. Is that a horrible idea?
Any other advice? I'm very desperate at this point...these next few days are going to be stressful.
If this was the case, is there any way I should communicate to her that it's not too late and I would give her a chance if she repents and turns away from her destructive behavior?
Sorry, just saw your post above. Here's how I see many LBH'S. They are much too eager to assure their WW that he doesn't want a divorce, and that it's not too late, and he will forgive if she'll just ......
I think I know what you are thinking. You are afraid she'll believe it's hopeless and you won't take her back. So, you want to assure her that it's not.
I don't think you need to tell her, especially when she has shown no remorse.
I don't think it is highly unusual for the WW to hesitate or not respond to the lawyer or proceed with the agreement. Could be out of spite or she may be just be mulling it over in her head. Who knows?
Don't tell her anymore that you don't want a divorce. She knows it. She has to go to you. She has to be ready. Telling her that it's not too late can be pressure.
I think I know what you are thinking. You are afraid she'll believe it's hopeless and you won't take her back. So, you want to assure her that it's not.
I don't think you need to tell her, especially when she has shown no remorse.
She's a very prideful/stubborn woman (even before BD). She would always have a hard time apologizing when she was clearly wrong. It makes me wonder if she actually thinks she IS showing remorse. That's what she said anyways, but we know we can't believe anything they say right?
I don't think it is highly unusual for the WW to hesitate or not respond to the lawyer or proceed with the agreement. Could be out of spite or she may be just be mulling it over in her head. Who knows?
Yeah, I just don't understand why she would file for D and not follow through with it. I guess she filed for D to get me out of her hair, and now that I'm gone (dark) she couldn't care less.
Don't tell her anymore that you don't want a divorce. She knows it. She has to go to you. She has to be ready. Telling her that it's not too late can be pressure.
Thanks Sandi, I won't tell her.
Sandi, I've read where you have mentioned that the WW must experience some significant loss in order to have a chance at "breaking the fog" so to speak. I don't think my WW has experienced a significant loss. In fact, she's pretty comfortable in her current life (or so she SAYS). I will stay my course, but I don't see this resolving itself anytime soon.
Sandi, I've read where you have mentioned that the WW must experience some significant loss in order to have a chance at "breaking the fog" so to speak. I don't think my WW has experienced a significant loss. In fact, she's pretty comfortable in her current life (or so she SAYS). I will stay my course, but I don't see this resolving itself anytime soon.
What would be considered a significant loss for a WW?
Sandi, what was yours?
What would be considered a significant loss for a WW?
Sandi, what was yours?
Well, talked to the L today and the divorce will be final on Friday at 9am. I read through the decree. It's so cold and businesslike, much like my WW. She is moving forward on it though, no signs of remorse, no signs of being human, no signs of reaching out to me. Just done.
It's in God's hands. I probably should have done this a long time ago, but I'm dropping the rope.
I tried.
I am so sorry. (((HUGS))) for that day. Good for you for dropping the rope.
My D will be final in a few months, I want to wait until after Christmas. I am so not looking forward to that day. It has only been 4 months since he filed.
Sending you strength Thriver. This too shall pass.
We all will recover, and we all will love again. It may be to our WAS's it may not. It may even be a better, more amazing relationship.
Keep breathing and trusting that something bigger than you is at work.
Be strong,
PP
Thank you EP and PP for your thoughts and support.
I got word from the L today that the final court date will be pushed back to next Thursday because the paperwork wasn't quite ready.
I know that I will get past this, but it is VERY hard. I had a good discussion with a good friend of mine over lunch today and he reassured me that I would be fine. I have a lot going for me and if WW can't see that, it's her loss. He's right. I deserve someone who treats me with respect and I will not settle for anything less!
Sorry it came to this thriver, your situation reminds me of my own except I'm only 3 weeks in so far. I've gone dark, but am afraid that my wife isn't the pursuer type.
How does going dark reconcile with the experimentation the DR book talks about? ie if going dark over 2-4 weeks isn't doing anything, why would waiting longer make a difference? Wouldn't it be worth trying a different tactic?
Sorry you are here too Oatmeal. Going dark is the chance to work on you and to allow your WW to go through the journey she needs to go through. Read the "going dark" thread in Cadet's post again. It is not about just NC, it's a chance for you to rediscover who you are, to detach from the drama, to clear your head, to start with a beginner's mind, to make yourself happy, etc.
I read through your sitch. Very similar to mine. The best advice I can give is to listen to the veterans who post on your thread. They've lived it and they know what works and more importantly, what doesn't work. You're only 3 weeks in, so take action early. I think I waited too long and well, you see where I am today.
Stay strong.
Well, I signed the D papers in front of a notary today. They will be signed by the judge tomorrow. I don't even have to be in court - my L is taking care of it. Just like that - 18 months of this crap - and I will be divorced. All my life, I felt like a winner. I was very confident in my relationships, talents, job, etc. Today, I feel like such a failure.
On one hand, limbo suck$, so I'm glad it's coming to an end.
On the other hand, there's that feeling of loss and grieving that still occupies my thoughts. Crazy, I know, considering how she ended our M.
Unfortunately, feelings for someone don't suddenly stop just because they hurt us. I could use prayers and support tomorrow.
"Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end."
Transformation, transition, nor change equal failure Thriver. They just don't. I'm sure it feels that way, but it's simply not truth.
You are not responsible for the actions of another person ever, therefor a relationship will always be out of our controls. The perfect spouse can still get left. The law of impermanence guarantees this and more.
I feel for you, with the exact same feeling, and will face the same on the day that my D is final. All we can do is continue to feel the feelings, honor them, let them pass, and see what's on the other side of them.
Sending you some serious strength and love on this tough night.
PP
Thank you PP. I've been keeping up with your sitch and I appreciate your kind words.
I made it through the night. Now for today. One day at a time.
Question for those with a WW...
As of today, I am divorced. As stupid as it sounds, I feel like I should unfriend my WW on Facebook. I probably should have done this soon after BD, but I was putting it off. I won't unfriend her to "get back at her" (she probably doesn't care anyways) and I won't make a big deal about it, but I just feel that I should do this for my own sanity and growth. Eventually, she will probably bring some OM around and make it public and I don't think I can take the pain of seeing that. Even though she rarely posts on FB, I don't want to know about her life. This will definitely help with detachment.
Thoughts on this?
I won't unfriend her to "get back at her"
That may be what it looks like in her eyes, and others, too. You could, or you could just unfollow her in which you wouldn't see her posts. I don't know what I would do, but I do know that if my W and I do end up divorcing, then I can't and won't be her friend. Just don't know what I would do in that situation.
The plan was to just unfriend her silently (she won't get notified). I don't want to make a big gesture out of it. Like I said, she probably won't notice anyways. If she does notice, why should I care. She fired me as her husband and she doesn't get the privilege of being my friend unless she shows remorse and commits to R.
WW's exact words after BD, "I could divorce you today and still be friends with you tomorrow."
Nope. Not happening! I don't need friends who treat my how she has treated me these last 18 months.
I thought about un-following her on FB, but then I thought I would not be tempted to check up on her if I just unfriended her.
Any other thoughts on this?
Do what you feel like doing. You are divorced. You don't have to protect anyone's feelings but your own.
Edit - Please start a new thread - Cadet
WW's exact words after BD, "I could divorce you today and still be friends with you tomorrow."
Early after the BD, my W said basically the same thing. I remained silent and didn't answer because I was thinking on how to respond. Things got in the way, so I never answered. But if she ever does say it again, I will tell her no - I won't be friends...we either will be married or acquaintances only talking because of the children. There is no friend zone here...
I thought about un-following her on FB, but then I thought I would not be tempted to check up on her if I just unfriended her.
Makes sense to me. The only thing I can think of is if you are open and at some point reconciliation does happen, then keeping her on may be better... If she is like my W, then maybe just un-following her is the best option because of importance attached to unfriending. Who knows.