http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2567285&page=11Part three of this tale continues. If you want to catch up with this sorry tale, please follow link above!
Hi Tulo
Yeah, this road is really patchy. Thankfully DB has proved to be a good road map so far.
hey - caught ya. i had rough ride myself today. I spewed somewhere about it. might even be on my own thread for a change. Now that would be diplomatic. Py. Nah - it was on Smothy's. Next time at my place I promise. take it easy Huddy, hopefully the next 24 hrs is less dramatic.
Hi mate
Yeah, just seen it on Smoothy's! Responded there. Good on you, keep going. Play with the kids. Have fun. Make her jealous.
My guts are rolling with fear right now. Is the letter going to be there when I get home? Will W back down and try talking. Have got my hair cut (my D asked me last night to get it done and then wondered why mummy didn't do it for daddy anymore) so look less hairy than yesterday.
I just wish this ride would stop!
My guts are rolling with fear right now. Is the letter going to be there when I get home? Will W back down and try talking. Have got my hair cut (my D asked me last night to get it done and then wondered why mummy didn't do it for daddy anymore) so look less hairy than yesterday.
I just wish this ride would stop!
Right dude. It's getting close to clocking off time. I'm hoping you're stable and in a good place. Be calm, at least on the exterior anyway. I'm rooting for you and let us know how it goes later.
Hi NDY
I've either just done the most stupid thing in my relationship, or the most clever.
W sends me a text saying the letter has come with two kisses on it. Hmmm...decide not to text back. Picks me up from station and we go off to pick up SD from boyfriends. W asked if I got her text. I just said yes. That was it.
We got home and I read the letter. It has some stuff in about my W citing irreconcilable differences and that we are going to sell the family home etc. to pay off our debts and that W wants to go back home with the kids.
Bearing in mind Friday's conversation, I asked if this is what she wants to do. I explain, again that this is a legal separation she is getting into that will be watched over by the court. She says it isn't, but wants to go ahead.
So then, using all my self belief, said I would go along with it, if that's what she wanted, but I wouldn't make it easy for her. Sharp intake of breath, I continued that I was going to get my own bank account, take myself off the joint account and that I would pay half of everything.
Instant spewfest! She said I couldn't do that (I can), that I had agreed that wouldn't happen until she left (no) and that she wouldn't be able to afford it (should have thought of that eh?). After telling me she f****** hated me and that she would be talking to her L she seemed visibly upset.
She then said she wouldn't be picking me up from the station anymore (I'll live) and that I couldn't use the car anymore because it's in her name (fair enough).
Then I noticed she'd taken down our wedding photos and she told me she had an estate agent coming on Friday. I asked if we were buying separate presents for our S's birthday, but she isn't talking to me.
So. There we go. Thoughts? She is so angry, it'll take her days to come down from that. Have I done right? She said in the spewfest she wanted to get the f*** away from me as soon as possible. I replied by saying I need somebody who loves me. Was that the right thing to do?
Hi buddy. I'll respond later when I get a few to a real computer. Be brave and don't be confrontational. Stay out of her way right now and let her cool down.
Running bath, so I'll be out of the way for a good hour. Then It'll be kids bedtime.
Hi
So remember I'm not a vet here so take what I say with a pinch of salt.
Hi NDY
I've either just done the most stupid thing in my relationship, or the most clever.
W sends me a text saying the letter has come with two kisses on it. Hmmm...decide not to text back. Picks me up from station and we go off to pick up SD from boyfriends. W asked if I got her text. I just said yes. That was it.
Ok, small temp check and you didn't rise to it. good.
We got home and I read the letter. It has some stuff in about my W citing irreconcilable differences and that we are going to sell the family home etc. to pay off our debts and that W wants to go back home with the kids.
Standard stuff. That's ok. The house isn't on the market yet and you haven't agreed to how this will progress. Remember you have just as much say in this.
Bearing in mind Friday's conversation, I asked if this is what she wants to do. I explain, again that this is a legal separation she is getting into that will be watched over by the court. She says it isn't, but wants to go ahead.
Believe nothing of what they say and 50% of what they do. Tomorrow or the next day or next week she may well feel different.
So then, using all my self belief, said I would go along with it, if that's what she wanted, but I wouldn't make it easy for her. Sharp intake of breath, I continued that I was going to get my own bank account, take myself off the joint account and that I would pay half of everything.
Ok, bit of a miss fire here. It's that you won't stand in her way. Making things difficult is just being argumentative and she won't want you telling her she is wrong. I'd go ahead and get the seperate accounts though.
Instant spewfest! She said I couldn't do that (I can), that I had agreed that wouldn't happen until she left (no) and that she wouldn't be able to afford it (should have thought of that eh?). After telling me she f****** hated me and that she would be talking to her L she seemed visibly upset.
Ok, let her talk to her L. She's angry. Angry is better than apathetic. It means she still feels something. Anyway you do this on your terms, not hers. But don't be mean.
She then said she wouldn't be picking me up from the station anymore (I'll live) and that I couldn't use the car anymore because it's in her name (fair enough).
Actually no, it's just as much your car as hers. She can't stop you from using it.
Then I noticed she'd taken down our wedding photos and she told me she had an estate agent coming on Friday. I asked if we were buying separate presents for our S's birthday, but she isn't talking to me.
That's a bad idea. Don't hurt your S by doing this. I'd speak to her as this will confuse S no end. Co parenting means you still have to work together. It's acutaly a good in road.
So. There we go. Thoughts? She is so angry, it'll take her days to come down from that. Have I done right? She said in the spewfest she wanted to get the f*** away from me as soon as possible. I replied by saying I need somebody who loves me. Was that the right thing to do?
Nooooo. Now you're coming across as needy. You need to be detached and aloof.
Hi NDY
OK, obviously my first try at being 'strong' in the face of all the crap that is coming. I know I may have got a few things wrong.
Temp test was weird. It's not like she could have done that by accident. Why send me a message about being f***** over with a kiss on it?
The 50/50 rule will probably come back at some point. Don't know if I should delay 'til later in the week to call L. Do it now or wait?
Told her that I would have to agree to what the estate agents say and she can't sell it with out me. If she does carry on like this, I'm going to insist on at least three agents.
Thought saying I was not going to make it easy sounded tough. Maybe I've read that rule wrong. I though I had to sound like I was moving on. Ah, re-reading that, it sounds like I'm delaying - got it.
I've not seen her that angry for years. Full on, face red, expletive issuing, stomping about angry. I thought I handled it well, because I just sat at the dining table eating my tea whilst this spewfest was ongoing. I tried to seem disengaged. Right/wrong?
Don't want to buy different gifts. She's not talking, so I'll leave it to later in the week.
The love me comment has an angle. When my mother died, my three sisters, the week before she died, took the will and got my mum to change it in to their favour. Long story, but when my father died, I paid my mother's mortgage for eight years and it was agreed that when she died, I'd get the house. As I was now married and not living there, I agreed with my sisters that I would share it with them. They, however, decided that wasn't enough for them, so took the lot. That was 14 years ago, and I never forgave them.
So, what I told my W was, I now saw her as just being like my sisters; you've taken the good stuff, now you're ripping me off, so I need somebody who loves me and if that's not you, I need somebody else. Does that make sense, or is it still needy? The sister comment will have hurt more than anything else as she hated them for what they did to me.
Not sure mate. I get why you said what you said. Again, not a vet or anything but each sitch is different. I've just had a spew fest of my own that I'm going to post later but for now I'd leave her alone.
At least one thing is that she has said she doesn't want this. Perhaps she's looking for you to bail her out? I.e an escape route? Not sure how that would work but worth thinking about.
No worries. Catch up in the morning, Hang tough.
I think you may have had the right idea, but It is difficult to word things just right during these times. For example, instead of saying I "need" a woman who loves me, it may have been more powerful to have said, I "deserve" a woman who loves me.
As soon as she believes you have let go of her, the dynamics will change. But as long as you want to remind her how this is not what you want, and make references to her possibly being that woman you need to love you.......she has the upper hand in the stitch. The WW's mind just doesn't work like you think it does, where you assure her she still holds your heart in her hand.
Do not trust her! Do not get excited whenever you see her put a heart or kiss at the end of a text. Don't waste time trying to figure out why. Do not fall for her parading around practically naked. A WW does these things as nothing more than manipulation, and nothing less than old habits.
I have a couple of questions. First, do you have a lawyer representing you? Second, why will you be paying half of the expenses?
Huddy, I think you did an excellent job.
YOU are analysing to the letter what words you said, and were they the best possible etc. Guaranteed she is NOT.
She is fuming about what? Do you think she even recalls what you said? Doubtful. IF anything she might remember that you didn't crack and start yelling. But possiblyNOT even this.
My W has zero recollection of some of our conversations. She has vivid recollections of cherry picked half true arguments and events. Mid sentence in a spew fest all about how I make her so angry with my talking etc, I interject that I haven't opened my mouth yet.
i.e. She can't even be consistent, rational from one second to the next
none of what you hear, half of what you see, AND expect that they ARE doing the same by default but with an agenda - to justify their behaviour.
me again, your expecting calculated reaction to nuances from a woman that puts kisses on the end of that text.
my W does/has done that sort of crap. To us, and anyone else who is not in a daze - WTF. That just makes no sense on any level. Unless it was like the kiss of death. but i don't think she meant this. maybe she was just excited, and leading from her heart she did this. maybe it was just habit. maybe she has been abducted by aliens and this a half brain dead clone.
I think you may have had the right idea, but It is difficult to word things just right during these times. For example, instead of saying I "need" a woman who loves me, it may have been more powerful to have said, I "deserve" a woman who loves me.
Hi Sandi2 - good to get your input. This was my first time at following your tough rules without getting emotional, so I am the first to admit I wasn't pitch perfect.
Deserve. Good word. Will use that from now on. Seems more powerful and descriptive.
So, do I take off my wedding ring? She's already ditched hers, so I'm just a bit confused as to what message this will send.
I've told her I don't trust her anymore (hence the comment about being like my sisters - she'll really hate that) and she didn't like that one bit. But I told her as she had gone legal, I can't believe a word she says.
Yes I have an L. It's house expenses I will be paying. I've told her I'm not paying for clothes or meals with her friends etc.
Hi Pyrite
Hope Melbourne is good today and hope you're having fun with the kids.
When she tries to regurgitate something, she only remembers parts of it and fills in the rest with her own story or twists it so that I have said something bad.
Rationallity goes out of the window and I expect noting else. Kisses on texts etc. has been tried before when I was weak and when I mentioned it she said 'I knew you'd get excited'. Stronger now, so I'm not 'that' man anymore!
I just wish this ride would stop!
Huddy,
You and me both.. I think you handled yourself great! Let her fume and say silly stuff, what was she expecting? For you to roll over and play dead?
I'm having a horrible day here.. Will start new tread soon. And I guess I'm totally being a baby but he changed his status on FB and took our R away and that hurts.. But I guess that comes down to the expectations, I thought he wouldn't do it so fast, and why am I expecting anything to begin with. And an even more childish thing is I wish I'd done it first.. So he could see me detach.
Anyway dear Huddy. I know the feeling with fear all around your stomach, I feel it too. So wish we could just be rid of all this hurt and anxiety but we will be, sooner or later.
All my best, keep it up!
Morning Tulo
Well, that's an about turn by tour man isn't it? Other day he's liking your pictures on FB now he's changing status? Right, get tough. Have faith. Unfriend him. It'll get his attention and he'll know (despite what you're feeling inside) you are stronger than he thinks.
Just keep telling yourself (i do when I feel rough) that they are the losers.
I know I ought to, but I don't feel I have it in my just yet..
I want to think that he's the looser, but right now, I feel like I wasn't good enough, not sweet enough, not love worthy enough, and all other horrible things I can throw at myself..
I have turned off the chat for him, so I don't see his green light and I will stop checking in on his wall.
So want to text him and say that he could have told me he was going to change this, but I wont. I wont contact him at all, and if he wants to follow me as I run it's up to him to contact me. Doubt it that he will..
Sorry Huddy, for hijacking your tread.. I'll try to shape up!
No way Tulo!
You are good enough, sweet enough etc. You have to do this for your own good. He will contact you if he wants you. Remember Sandis rules.
Hijack away!
You are so sweet! I will read Sandis rules again and try to take them to heart yet again. Working on my new tread now..
Thanks!
Hug from a rainy Sweden, and a pretty rainy heart.
Hmmm.....six phone calls and three texts asking me to call from W. Think I might just swerve on that for now. Thanks Sandi2 - got to change the dynamic.
Hmmm.....six phone calls and three texts asking me to call from W. Think I might just swerve on that for now. Thanks Sandi2 - got to change the dynamic.
Really? 6 calls and 3 txt's? Wow. Something has got to her. Pity you are really busy and can't accommodate her at the moment ;-)
Ha ha! I cleared off out of the office to see a close friend and my phones was like some kind of christmas tree. No expectations.
Ha ha! I cleared off out of the office to see a close friend and my phones was like some kind of christmas tree. No expectations.
yea stay ok dude. You are the leader here.
Huddy, I think you did well. It is alway easier to think I should of said this, done that etc at the heat of the moment. Goodness knows how many of us have thought that!
Tulo, I think WAS have their own rules, H removed every single picture of me on FB on BD and then put separated as his status.
WAS only sees things as they are at the time, unfortunately, we can not change their perspective. According to my spouse I never put him first, however, he forgets that I moved for his job, gave up a promotion etc for him.
Huddy, I think you did well. It is alway easier to think I should of said this, done that etc at the heat of the moment. Goodness knows how many of us have thought that!
Tulo, I think WAS have their own rules, H removed every single picture of me on FB on BD and then put separated as his status.
WAS only sees things as they are at the time, unfortunately, we can not change their perspective. According to my spouse I never put him first, however, he forgets that I moved for his job, gave up a promotion etc for him.
Ah, yes. I get this as well. According the WW i never did anything with S9 for years. Funny, in all that time he and I spent a lot of time together while she was away working. But I never did anything with him, right?
Hmmm.....six phone calls and three texts asking me to call from W. Think I might just swerve on that for now. .
WOW!! That sounds like she really has reacted!! Keep playing it like the cool dude you are!!
Sounds great!
Tulo, I think WAS have their own rules, H removed every single picture of me on FB on BD and then put separated as his status.
That must have hurt like hell, I would imagine. My ex didn't put singel or anything, he just took it off so I guess I ought to be glad about that. And he waited for a couple of weeks or so before he took it off.
We are all in a pickle here, but I'm grateful that we can vent to each other, I feel it really helps!
Glad for Huddy and his ex-mas tree! Hope we all get one before too long!
All my best to you Smothy!
Hug!
Evening all
Hope everyone is OK.
Well the 'urgent' phone calls were to ask if i'd paid a bill! When I actually counted the calls on my works phone from W plus my mobile, the total came to nine calls and four text messages.
So, W was absent at the station when I got there, which I expected, so there is nothing like a bracing uphill mile and a half walk home after work, right?
Got home and D wanted me to go to her school art show. Well, what she actually wanted was mummy and daddy to go, but guess who didn't want to attend? That really upset my D, but in the usual WW mentality, it didn't matter. W helpfully shouted that if I wanted to buy D's picture it would cost £8 and that she had been on her own in the morning.
Really enjoyed the art show. D's picture was great. Met two of W's friends whilst I was there. They were really nice, but it was obviously awkward for them. Understandable, but I showed a confident face and chatted amiably with them for a while. Bought the picture and went home. D again upset with W that she didn't attend. That's a harsh one to take, seeing my D upset and I wanted to yell, but didn't.
Started making my tea and SD was going to the doctors to see about her anti depresents. W decided to drive SD there and took S with her. As she was leaving she tried to tell me something her L had said today, but I just said I didn't want to know. That riled her, so she stormed off.
When she came back, she asked again about the bill (yawn) and asked where it was. I need copies for the L so told her it was at work. W mocked me by talking in a really slow voice. I told her not to be sarcastic. S's autism reactions are kicking off and he is headbutting things again, which doesn't happen when he's not stressed. Again W doesn't seem bothered.
So, on a moving ahead score, I think that's a 0 out of 10.
Well, at least you can see it for what it really is and can rise above it. S9 no longer talks about M and D doing things together. He knows it's not going to happen.
I can't believe your W isn't taking notice of the affect on your S. The selfishness know no bounds. Unbelievable. It's not his fault this is happening. Poor wee soul. My heart breaks for him.
Thanks NDY
As he can't really speak, the only way he can express frustration is to hit/throw/headbutt things. When I had him in the bath I told him not to worry about Mummy and Daddy. No idea if he really understands but the selfishness of W just carries on.
Thanks NDY
As he can't really speak, the only way he can express frustration is to hit/throw/headbutt things. When I had him in the bath I told him not to worry about Mummy and Daddy. No idea if he really understands but the selfishness of W just carries on.
im sure he understands better than we appreciate. Hence the frustration.
I'm glad you talked to him. Sometimes just being there is enough for any kid. No matter the maelstrom going on around them. At least you are being the leader here. Good on you.
Cheers! Catch up tomorrow.
Sounds horrible that she doesn't seem to care about stressing your son. But I've heard so much stuff of how parents can put themselves before their kids in these kinds of situations, so I'm not surprised.. Just sad for your sons sake.
Glad you had a good time at the art show!
Sleep tight dear Huddy! Think your doing great!
Hug
Really hard to watch Huddy. Sorry mate, i feel for you.
Morning all
Thanks for the kind words.
Got out of the bath last night and said to W that I wanted to take S to his specialist just to be checked over. W said why are you talking in a soft voice (she was shouting and S was in the room) all your doing is trying to get the upper hand. Ten she stormed off.
No W. I care about my kids that you don't seem to. The selfishness in just bewildering.
Had a nightmare last night. Funnily, it was in colour and I can remember it now. We were all on a bus, going to buy wallpapaer (!) and I was begging and pleading her not ot go. Guess that's my inner self trying to wrestle the situation back.
Anyway, sunny today, so that always makes the day a bit better.
Morning all
Had a nightmare last night. Guess that's my inner self trying to wrestle the situation back.
I dream a lot too and nothing good, I'm afraid..
Hope you have a great day, keep up the good work.
If you have a moment, I'm having a mental breakdown so any input on my stitch is welcome. Feel close to calling him but trying not to..
Ok, keep well dear Huddy. Hope your son is having a better day today too!
A
Morning all
Thanks for the kind words.
Got out of the bath last night and said to W that I wanted to take S to his specialist just to be checked over. W said why are you talking in a soft voice (she was shouting and S was in the room) all your doing is trying to get the upper hand. Ten she stormed off.
No W. I care about my kids that you don't seem to. The selfishness in just bewildering.
Had a nightmare last night. Funnily, it was in colour and I can remember it now. We were all on a bus, going to buy wallpapaer (!) and I was begging and pleading her not ot go. Guess that's my inner self trying to wrestle the situation back.
Anyway, sunny today, so that always makes the day a bit better.
Talking in a soft voice is trying to get the upper hand? Well, that's a new one one me. I'd keep up the cool demeanour. You don't need to explain your actions to her.
Good that you are putting your S first as well. Be the best dad you can. It's apparently very attractive.
Be the best dad you can. It's apparently very attractive.
It is!
I think my W seems to think attractive is some muscle bound hunk who appears on TV. She seems obsessed with Jason Statham and that kind of person.
The mind of a WW is a very strange place.
She seems obsessed with Jason Statham and that kind of person.
That's every woman on the western hemisphere mate.
It is difficult to explain or describe in words, much less expect a LBH to understand it. I think she sees you as acting overly concerned about your son to make her feel badly/guilty. In that type of mindset of some WW's, they believe the H is playing the role of the good parent, while trying to make her appear to be the bad parent. I can almost see her role her eyes, telling herself, "Can he get more dramatic!"
So she reacts by turning into a shrew. I'm not saying she will, but don't be surprised if she appears to take her irritation out on him. He probably senses it, and she knows it. Instead of her softening, her rebellion takes over and makes her colder. Rebellion can be a terrible thing when it drives a person's behavior in all areas of their life.
WW's will push button's you didn't even know you had!
Ok Sandi2. How do I deal with that then? I'm not doing if for dramatic effect/make her feel bad, I am concerned about my son. Guidance please.
I know you aren't, I'm just trying to help you see from her point of craziness. I'm getting ready for work right now, but I will get back to you in a couple of hours, hopefully.
Hi Sandi,
I always learn something from your posts. I can't decide whether it is a good thing or a bad thing that my W is the typical WW you so often describe. Probably I should consider it neither.
My wife has been relatively calm lately. She is still rewriting history though. She is settling into A it seems. She introduced him to her father this weekend. He is in my house most nights in my off weeks. (50/50 custody. Kids live in family home and we move in and out ).
I have read (at least remembered) many discussions about erratic, unreasonable behaviour, but if this is a year(s) deal then surely it must normalise at some point?
I have read (at least remembered) many discussions about erratic, unreasonable behaviour, but if this is a year(s) deal then surely it must normalise at some point?
How long can you hold your breath?
I think it's more like an addiction. Some people quit. Other people don't. DBing is like the "AA" for affair addicts. We can't control them or make them quit. We simply learn to disengage from co-dependent behavior, quit enabling, stand tall, and walk our own path. Wherever it leads us.
We're not the only ones suffering. Remember that many, many marriages are inflicted by these addictions, and while their spouse hasn't walked the quality of their lives is no better. Alcoholism, abuse, gambling, etc.
Be strong Py, and build others up around you. That's what we can do, eh?
Hi Huddy. Hope you don't mind me joining in. Can I just say that you seem to be doing the best you can re your kids and at the moment that the most
Important thing to get right It's really tough on you but the kids must come first
Your W seems abit like a nightmare at the moment but you need to rise above it for yours and the kids sake
Take care. Rd
Hi rd500
Of course I don't mind!
Yeah, W is being a nightmare. She's in full runaway, no logic, selfish, not caring mode.
So, here's the thing. In two weeks I've gone from being miserable and needy into being somebody who only sees the kids as a priority and to hell with the W. I'm applying Sandi2's rules/LRT to myself and feel better.
I can't control her, but I can control my part of the situation and I HAVE TO look after my kids and their needs regardless of what W has to say about it.
I feel a bit harsh about it but my W isn't the W she was ten weeks ago. Deep down I want 'her' but not 'her' as she is now. I probably haven't explained that well but if she can't/won't return to be a loving spouse to me, I have to let go.
I feel a bit harsh about it but my W isn't the W she was ten weeks ago. Deep down I want 'her' but not 'her' as she is now. I probably haven't explained that well but if she can't/won't return to be a loving spouse to me, I have to let go.
you don't need to explain that part. I recon 99% of us on here want that as well.
Yeah, realised as soon as I typed it I'm preaching to the same crowd!
So, another brisk walk back up the hill. That's four miles + per day of walking I'm getting through now. Haven't done that since I met W so feeling pretty fit.
Still practicing NC and she's now resorted to covering her face on the side I sit so she can't see me. Kids really wanted to do hugs etc. when I got in, so that felt good.
Ticking off my DB rule list, I've done the 180 by getting fit, lean and mean, I've practiced NC for about two weeks and I have shown W that I am quite capable of living on my own. Will all this bring her back? I don't know. What signs will I look for? No idea. How long will it take? Haven't a clue. Have I got it wrong and she's so stubborn that all this is pushing her further away? Maybe I should go palm reading!
So, another brisk walk back up the hill. That's four miles + per day of walking I'm getting through now. Haven't done that since I met W so feeling pretty fit.
Still practicing NC and she's now resorted to covering her face on the side I sit so she can't see me. Kids really wanted to do hugs etc. when I got in, so that felt good.
Ticking off my DB rule list, I've done the 180 by getting fit, lean and mean, I've practiced NC for about two weeks and I have shown W that I am quite capable of living on my own. Will all this bring her back? I don't know. What signs will I look for? No idea. How long will it take? Haven't a clue. Have I got it wrong and she's so stubborn that all this is pushing her further away? Maybe I should go palm reading!
Dude, take it from a man that knows. She is nowhere near bottoming out yet. I can't believe she covers her face. Lol. That is the first time I've heard that and I've heard some pretty crazy stuff of this journey.
Want to know what I do in the house when she's spewing? I either whistle, hum or sing a tune. But in a low voice. I click my fingers in time to the tune. Not in front of her but when I'm moving about doing stuff. Now does that sound like a needy broken man?
Hi Huddy. Your last post is completely right. When it's comes to W and her thoughts you have no idea so why even try because you'll more than likely get it wrong. Get on with your life , improve yourself , make yourself someone only a fool would leave and cherish those kids.
Take care mate. Rd
Hi NDY
She started doing that a couple of weeks ago, but only does it when she's trying not to see me playing/kissing the kids. I've been whistling and she looks bemused. Maybe that's good.
Hi rd500
Only a fool would leave! Ha ha, I like that.That's made my evening.
Hi NDY
She started doing that a couple of weeks ago, but only does it when she's trying not to see me playing/kissing the kids. I've been whistling and she looks bemused. Maybe that's good.
Hi rd500
Only a fool would leave! Ha ha, I like that.That's made my evening.
I would say so. Seems like a guilt thing to me but hey, no mind reading right? I'd do more of it if you can. She will eventually look.
And whistling? Yea. The whole 'not bothered' thing. That's also a good one.
I always have this nagging feeling that our WAS's are punishing us. You get the feeling that they want to make us suffer. Crikey, mine did. But when the pain stops? Who know perhaps they start to look at things differently.
I know your just into this situation mate. But man you are progressing well. I'm actually at the stage where I believe there is very little she can do to hurt me now. IDK, she can be very creative in that department but everything she has done strikes me as her wanting to get back at me rather than a WAS that's had enough. Reading sandi2's posts on the WW rather than the WAS has led me to conclude this. She has been very cruel. Someone that just wants out isn't that cruel.
Hi mate
OK, I see what you mean. My W treats me incredibly cruelly and vindictive, but due to some of the things she's put in place, she classifies as a WAS.
The only thing that I really fear is loss of the kids. That really feels like a punishment. But what for? I've always worked, always provided, sacrificed all my hobbies to be with the kids, provided her with everything she's asked for. The only thing I haven't been able to do is allow her to endless pots of money. As the only real earner it doesn't really stretch round that much when there are five mouths to feed.
Hi mate
OK, I see what you mean. My W treats me incredibly cruelly and vindictive, but due to some of the things she's put in place, she classifies as a WAS.
The only thing that I really fear is loss of the kids. That really feels like a punishment. But what for? I've always worked, always provided, sacrificed all my hobbies to be with the kids, provided her with everything she's asked for. The only thing I haven't been able to do is allow her to endless pots of money. As the only real earner it doesn't really stretch round that much when there are five mouths to feed.
What did she tell you were her reasons for wanting the D? And drop the fear. She can smell it. It didn't work for me wrt S9 so it won't work for you. That's not what she's thinking right now.
Only reason so far is the standard doesn't love me anymore/doesn't find me attractive anymore. She's moving so quickly though. That what makes me think she's more of a WAS. She has said now and again that she needs space and wants to see if she can love me again, but that seems pretty remote right now.
Fear. Yeah, I've shown lots of that in the first few weeks, but not so after joining DB forum.
I have learned so much from you who have gone through this experience of being the LBS. I appreciate the fact most everyone takes what I say, without offense. As another poster was saying, it's so hard to see what you are always doing, when you are the one who is so close to this situation. When it comes to our kids, things can get very touchy, right?
First of all, I am not telling you that what you said or did regarding your son was wrong, okay? I want you to know that up front. I am on your side.
She is the one who is having
heart problems. It's hard to understand how this mess can change a person so much that it could affect their parenting. I believe in most cases I have read about, it has had at least some degree of the WW's inability to make logical decisions, or to reason. Unfortunately, that can include their own children at times. The parent who is still in their right mind needs to do whatever it takes to protect the children, b/c she either doesn't see what she's doing....or doesn't care. Either way, she won't admit it to herself, or anyone else. She will twist it around until she feels she has an excuse for what she does.
I would suggest you just do what you see fit for your son. Be careful how you relay it to her, b/c it's easy for the WW to get defensive toward the H, especially over the kids. Truthfully, I have seen in many threads where well-meaning fathers say something to the WW about the kids....and it comes across to her as though he's
trying to use it as a dagger. Only b/c I see both sides. He's so hurt at her, and it's difficult to say some of these things without it sounding accusing. And of course, she's going to take most everything he says, wrong.
Actually, it's best, IMHO, to not say things about how she should consider how the kids feel, or that she's being selfish, or should stay in the M for the sake of the kids. It simply adds to her mountain of resentment. (Some WW's can unintentionally, or otherwise, take it out on the kids. That's hard to think about, but it does happen in
some cases.)
In her mind, she has sacrificed her best years for you and the kids. She feels she has always had to put someone else first. Now, it's her time to be happy. She might as well have emotional/selfish blindness and deafness. That's not to say she has stopped loving her children, but lack of outward concern may cause you to wonder about it.
She is selfish, topped with rebellion and resentment. It's not pretty.
Again, I am not saying
you have done anything wrong. Just wanted to use this to hopefully help any H who may be in the same shoes. I often tell the LBH not to use his kids as his excuse to contact his W, play on her emotions, guilt her, etc. In every case, the H will say how much he cares about his kids and would never use them to get to her. So, I honestly feel that many H's & dads do not intentionally do it....but many still use that route, trying to reach her.
If I were a LBS and thought my child needed to see his specialist, I would see that he gets there. No arguments or discussion, which includes not telling her what
she should be doing about it.
I hope I have not confused anyone about this issue.
^gold. My goodness sandi you are astonishing.
I think my W seems to think attractive is some muscle bound hunk who appears on TV. She seems obsessed with Jason Statham and that kind of person.
The mind of a WW is a very strange place.
Haha, need to google him.. No idea who he is..
But really, I think we all can see someone on tv and think "Wow, God had a good day that day" but it's kind of silly thinking that that is something to strive for or even want to have in your life.
A good person, a good parent that will stand firm when the wind blows is way more attractive to me.. Could she go through mid-life crises? Seems like something that would spark that kind of adoration..
Hug!
Haha, I googled..
He looks more or less like my stalker!! You know the one that is looked up in the loony bin..
Now it's a certain, she must be crazy!
She seems obsessed with Jason Statham and that kind of person.
That's every woman on the western hemisphere mate.
Well, this makes me feel a little bit special..
I'm the odd one out!
She seems obsessed with Jason Statham and that kind of person.
That's every woman on the western hemisphere mate.
Well, this makes me feel a little bit special..
I'm the odd one out!
Your google foo is not strong my young apprentice.
Only reason so far is the standard doesn't love me anymore/doesn't find me attractive anymore. She's moving so quickly though. That what makes me think she's more of a WAS. She has said now and again that she needs space and wants to see if she can love me again, but that seems pretty remote right now.
Fear. Yeah, I've shown lots of that in the first few weeks, but not so after joining DB forum.
Ah yes. That old chestnut. Really solid foundations for a D. Love is a choice. Anyway, you have something to work with there. She doesn't love you anymore so think back to the man she fell in love with. Start with a beginers mind.
hey Huddy,
Sometimes it feels like we are dealing with a 5 year old. Hand over her face. Sheesh! does it help darling? Good luck. you can't win with anything really, but kids as well - default to "do what is easiest for you."
you tell 'em - you get crap. you don't tell 'em and they find out - you get crap. I've done both. trying to learn from my mistakes.
She seems obsessed with Jason Statham and that kind of person.
That's every woman on the western hemisphere mate.
Well, this makes me feel a little bit special..
I'm the odd one out!
Your google foo is not strong my young apprentice.
She seems obsessed with Jason Statham and that kind of person.
That's every woman on the western hemisphere mate.
Well, this makes me feel a little bit special..
I'm the odd one out!
Your google foo is not strong my young apprentice.
I didn't know who he was either LOL. Though I am more interested in someone who has lived a 'life'
Huddy, maybe your W reacts the ways she does because she is guilty?
Morning Huddy,
Hope you wake up this morning with the sun shining down on you, making for a good day in DB land.
I think Sandi2 is right. Take your son to the specialist, I wouldn't even tell her if it will turn into an argument.
He's your boy and you have to do what you need to do, with or without her. If she asks why you didn't tell her afterwards you can just say that you didn't want to argue with her and that's that.
I woke up being angry like a little bee today, but now it's over and I'm ready for a good day getting ready for Saturday.
We've got this either way the cookie crumbles!
Morning all
Sorry I haven't replied earlier but really tired last night, so took S to bed and just fell asleep (with the help of two tablets) managed to get through to 0600!
Having a dream/nightmare a day though. Last nights was about being on a ferris wheel when the carriage turns upside down. I step in and stop the kids falling out and W begs me to come back with her. I guess that's my inner self, again, hoping I can pull this out of the fire.
Sandi2 - as always, great to get your input/analysis from somebody who was a WW. OK, I probably got it wrong by telling her what I was going to do. Yes she pulled a face when I said I was going to do it, but I wasn't using it as a weapon, I am just concerned. I can see how that pulls on resentment. Next time, will just do it and tell her afterwards.
The hand across the face thing is probably guilt/realiasion that she is doing wrong and can't admit it. My W has always been unable to admit when she is wrong. She always managed to turn it round so that she never admitted it. She's stubborn - that's a worry.
In the first week, I did tell her that being a husband is more than being a muscle bound numbskull. But as I was emotional, I probably didn't handle it well.
So, off we go again.
It's a new day mate. Work it to your advantage.
buckle in Huddy. ready for another day.
We're not talking, so we managed to get through the entire evening without a word. She sighed though. I think she's actually feeling the pressure now.
and you are blossoming my friend
whose the victim now and who is in control of their emotions. and it has all come down to you are not running away from them. good job Huddy
and you are blossoming my friend
whose the victim now and who is in control of their emotions. and it has all come down to you are not running away from them. good job Huddy
I second this. Good job. Be the leader.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to sound like I was saying to take him to his doctor without her knowledge of it. Don't do it as if you are going behind her back or sneaking him out to see the doctor. I just meant to take charge of it, without implying she has failed to do it (or to do anything else). Don't get into a discussion over it, especially if she's getting all bent out of shape.
For instance, if you say, "I wonder if son may need to see his doctor", it easily opens the door for her to pounce on you, b/c she takes it the wrong way. "What's that suppose to mean?!"
If you open your statement by saying, "I am concerned about son and wonder if he may need to see his doctor", then depending on her attitude at the moment...she will either be defensive or get offensive, b/c she's guilty and hasn't been doing a good job. I don't know that she would feel guilt (like we associate guilt feelings), more likely she would be feel anger b/c it runs parallel with "getting caught" being bad.
You see, there is nothing wrong in that statement. In fact, a logical couple would calmly discuss their concerns and go from there, right? Key word here is "logical". A WW is not logical, and therefore, how can you deal with her as though she is.
Try saying it with a more decisive tone...."I am going to make an appointment for son to see his doctor". If she doesn't volunteer to take him, you don't ask her, you just take him yourself. In fact, it would probably be better if you did, b/c she could suggest to the doctor it's all your imagination. If you take him, you could tell the doctor of your concerns about him.
Hi Sandi2
OK. I said it in a 'normal' voice. I said 'I'm concerned about S's behaviour. I'm going to make an appointment to see his specialist'. She replied, shouting, 'Why are you talking softly. You're just trying to get the upper hand. He'll be fine when this situation is sorted'. Then she just stormed off.
So, do you think this is your rules starting to work? The fact I remained calm and objective in my conversation whilst she was determined to have a fight. I think if i'd asked her if she wanted a cup of tea, the outcome would have been the same.
Thanks to everyone who asked, S calmed down yesterday but D overheard me talking to SD about flats (apartments for our US cousins) if we have to move out and reacted by saying 'no' and hugging me for a whole hour. It's this part that is still hurting.
Sandi2 - nothing you say offends, by the way. I am just grateful that you can provide some insight into something, I think, all us LBS just can't work out.
Hi mate. Wise words from Sandi and again S comes first so whatever you do if it's in the best interest of S then what W thinks doesn't matter.
Take care. Rd
Cheers rd - keeping it real in the face of fantasyland.
My own take on this is how I'm astonished at how much we need to change how we speak to our W's in the face of all this. Something so normal like 'I think S should see a Doctor' can suddenly become ammo for them, where before BD that would merely have been a concerned conversation about him. I get what Sandi is saying and i agree with her approach but geeze.
Yeah. Before BD, this is the sort of thing we sould have talked about together and then dealt with together or one of us would have made the arrangements and we'd both go. We've always been to S's appointments together as we both care for his wellbeing. There is a blockage in the tubes and we need dynorod!
Ah, the bosom of a loving family home......no, scratch that.
So, I managed to get as far as the kitchen before spewfest started. I was asked again about that bill (I don't know if you've paid it - I told you I had) then started on about me getting my own bank account. Tried to tell me how I was going to run my financial affairs (W - my solicitor says you have to do this etc.) but I told her I don't. She threatened to 'get rid' of my post (my bills etc.) if I didn't do as she said (well, just do it, I'm not bothered) and I'd get a black mark.
I was speaking in a normal soft voice as the kids were there, she was shouting, so I told her to come in the kitchen if she wanted to talk further as I didn't want to upset the kids. I told her she said we were seperated, so I'm looking after myself now. She shouted back saying I was 'being petty'. I told her I wasn't going to talk to her whilst she was shouting.
Then, it happened. For the first time in this sorry affair, she welled up and ran off upstairs to the master bedroom shouting that I was being unreasonable.
Is this the dynamic finally changing, or just a momentary blip.
Hmmm...W is crying bucketloads down the phone to somebody. That makes me sad, but I can't give in. It's probably self pity on her part.
Be strong. Very strong. You are doing the correct thing. Think about it, you are being petty by looking after your affairs but she's valid in threatening to toss out your mail? Which is a crime btw.
When she returns, and she will. Be calm and happy. When my WW was like this to me I simple stated I will do what I deem necessary in my own time. She hated it. The email from the other day was what finally calmed her down. Up to that point she couldn't hear what I was saying, just what she thought I was saying. The good thing about writhing it down is I could point out indirectly how a lot of the cr*p she was complaining about was a tually her own doing. Let her cry for now. She will hopefully start to realise just what she is facing. And btw, it's not even started to get hard yet.
Hmmm...W is crying bucketloads down the phone to somebody. That makes me sad, but I can't give in. It's probably self pity on her part.
and guilt. Don't forget the guilt. Yip, it's only just beginning. It takes a while for them to realise that once they sack us as their H they don't get to tell us what to do anymore.
Thanks NDY
Sad to say, but I'm glad you've got a few months on me with this (don't take that the wrong way - I think you'll understand what I'm saying).
As she's on her mobile, it'll be SIL. MIL is at work until 7, so that wasn't hard to figure out. I guess she wanted to be heard, because I'm in bathroom with kids and I could hear the sobbing above the bath running. Interspersed with lots of 'I knows'. No doubt I'll be the biggest b****** under the sun, but I didn't start this.
I think what will really hit her is when she gets a reply letter from my L. That makes it very real then. W has got an estate agent coming tomorrow - big deal; not signing anything.
Thanks NDY
Sad to say, but I'm glad you've got a few months on me with this (don't take that the wrong way - I think you'll understand what I'm saying).
As she's on her mobile, it'll be SIL. MIL is at work until 7, so that wasn't hard to figure out. I guess she wanted to be heard, because I'm in bathroom with kids and I could hear the sobbing above the bath running. Interspersed with lots of 'I knows'. No doubt I'll be the biggest b****** under the sun, but I didn't start this.
I think what will really hit her is when she gets a reply letter from my L. That makes it very real then. W has got an estate agent coming tomorrow - big deal; not signing anything.
I understand mate. No offence taken nor implied. Perhaps having a few months over you means I'm closer to the finishing line, IDK. Anyway, your SIL is some piece of work. The 'well meaning friends' section of DR could have been written about her.
Are you able to tell when it's your W talking or if she's repeating/ acting out what SIL has told her?
Thanks. Didn't want to sound glib or anything.
SIL is priming W into actions she wouldn't normally take. The L for example. Even though I was at the hotel that week, my SD was at home and told me what was going on. So, SIL googles 'Family lawyers in fife' (W is not clued up on computers at all) and picks the first one that comes up. Gives number to W and tells her to to phone it for 'advice'
L told her to bring proof of income etc. (mine did as well) and then proceeded to tell her she was able to claim legal aid so started ball rolling on full legal separation, money claims etc. SIL tells W to 'go for it, you deserve something'. Well thanks. being a loving, caring husband that does everything for you means jack s***.
Yeah, my SIL really is a man hating, lonely spinster.
Thanks. Didn't want to sound glib or anything.
SIL is priming W into actions she wouldn't normally take. The L for example. Even though I was at the hotel that week, my SD was at home and told me what was going on. So, SIL googles 'Family lawyers in fife' (W is not clued up on computers at all) and picks the first one that comes up. Gives number to W and tells her to to phone it for 'advice'
L told her to bring proof of income etc. (mine did as well) and then proceeded to tell her she was able to claim legal aid so started ball rolling on full legal separation, money claims etc. SIL tells W to 'go for it, you deserve something'. Well thanks. being a loving, caring husband that does everything for you means jack s***.
Yeah, my SIL really is a man hating, lonely spinster.
Sounds like it. So I think the cooling off period has still to come. I think I may just be entering mine, and remember how far ahead in the process I am from you. But you can't rush it. No siree. It'll take its merry time. So get your ducks in a row JUST IN CASE. Make sure you are better prepared than your W. Look, when your W dropped the bomb in her mind this would all be easy, you would just roll over and give her everything she wants and you would still be friends. It's classic script. Now she will start to learn the consequences of her actions but believe me when I say it isn't an overnight realisation. It takes time. A lot of time.
Hi NDY
I'm glad you're getting some peace. Even if it's not what you want so far, a bit of a breather will do you good.
SD tells me that W broke down earlier today, crying etc. saying how she wasn't happy how things were going. W said there is no way she is going to get back with me, but she is now thinking of staying in Scotland. Funny, seven weeks ago, there was no way she was staying up here.
SD asks me to back off on DB strategy. I think that is wrong. In just two weeks I've gone from feeble, sobbing, needy wreck to feeling quite strong (despite last weeks backslide about the kids) and mentally in a better place. W appears to be starting to have doubts. This could be crocodile tears (just like Sandi2 says would happen) and I'm not really in a forgiving mood at the moment.
I've told SD to have faith in the system. She felt that it would push W further away, but I told her it's meant to be counter intuitive. SD has agreed that it is alien to her, but will back me. For once in a long time, thanks to my new found friends on here, I actually feel in control.
Good. I'm glad you feel in control. But, will SD keep DB strategy to herself? I haven't shared that with anyone. Not a sole that not a virtual friend. It's our game plan that we can't expose. The control here can only be for you. Do not try to control your W. That's the worst thing you can do.
I get that she's not liking it. But like you said before, this isn't picking paint. No, this is life changing so you do what you need to do.
Yes, I have relative calm for now. Going to journal a bit on my own thread.
Thanks. Didn't want to sound glib or anything.
SIL is priming W into actions she wouldn't normally take. The L for example. Even though I was at the hotel that week, my SD was at home and told me what was going on. So, SIL googles 'Family lawyers in fife' (W is not clued up on computers at all) and picks the first one that comes up. Gives number to W and tells her to to phone it for 'advice'
L told her to bring proof of income etc. (mine did as well) and then proceeded to tell her she was able to claim legal aid so started ball rolling on full legal separation, money claims etc. SIL tells W to 'go for it, you deserve something'. Well thanks. being a loving, caring husband that does everything for you means jack s***.
Yeah, my SIL really is a man hating, lonely spinster.
This is just so damned annoying. In your case it is SIL. In mine it is the family Ukraine, and several really bad choices for support/confidence/advice. BUT this is the support she sought. She shutdown all other opinions that didn't support her to D and OM. She fed them a warped, re-written version of our M to enlist the support.
Like Sandi's description of the WW, OM was a drug and she needed her fix. In all honesty, W is not the strongest person, she was/is a soft target. Granted I gave her good reason to be a "target" in the first place. BUT if she was stronger, more mature, she may have even had a moment where she paused to reflect on where she was. Lifted her head out of the fog so to speak.
MAYBE that is what your W is crying about. MAYBE it is just self pity (somehow??? - WAW crazy). BUT neither really matters in the big picture and you re behaving admirably Huddy. Keep it up.
Morning HDY/Pyrite
I told my SD because she was so stressed out and on the anti depresants. I had to let her know I had a plan. I din't want her to do anything stupid. She's on my side as she doesn't want W to go anywhere.
The SIL/MIL was a really bad choice to ask for help. I thought they might make her see sense, but I didn't count on them using their own agenda.
I think W thinks it's not going her way, so for now, it's tears for herself.
Morning HDY/Pyrite
I told my SD because she was so stressed out and on the anti depresants. I had to let her know I had a plan. I din't want her to do anything stupid. She's on my side as she doesn't want W to go anywhere.
The SIL/MIL was a really bad choice to ask for help. I thought they might make her see sense, but I didn't count on them using their own agenda.
I think W thinks it's not going her way, so for now, it's tears for herself.
It'll be guilt, no doubt about it. Let her process it herself. SIL has never been through this so she has no idea what it's like. I can here her now on the phone "you deserve happiness". Well, is she happier now? Will she be happier in the long run? Idk but it sounds very much to me like your W had a pretty good life up till now.
Py, my W is a very strong, mature woman. It made no difference to her behaviour.
I know this is what SIL will be saying. I've known SIL for 22 years; she's nicey nicey to everyones face, but behind peoples backs she gets involved in other peoples relationships and seems quite happy when they break up.
Misery loves misery.
I know this is what SIL will be saying. I've known SIL for 22 years; she's nicey nicey to everyones face, but behind peoples backs she gets involved in other peoples relationships and seems quite happy when they break up.
Misery loves misery.
If only your W recognise her for what she really is. Anyway that's not going to help you now. For now it's you and the kids.
I have bought S's birthday present as W appears to be more interested in trying to sell the house. Normally, we have a small party for him at home, due to his autism. Don't know what is going to happen tomorrow.
Friday afternoons really seem to tie my stomach up in knots. 20 minutes and I'll walk up for the train. I use to really enjoy the weekends. I have organised a GAL activity for Holiday Monday but I'm not planning on telling W. Kids are at school, having next Monday off instead.
I have bought S's birthday present as W appears to be more interested in trying to sell the house. Normally, we have a small party for him at home, due to his autism. Don't know what is going to happen tomorrow.
Friday afternoons really seem to tie my stomach up in knots. 20 minutes and I'll walk up for the train. I use to really enjoy the weekends. I have organised a GAL activity for Holiday Monday but I'm not planning on telling W. Kids are at school, having next Monday off instead.
I feel the same about the weekends.
Look, if you can try and have as normal a birthday for your S. We did this at Christmas for S9. It's not the kids fault that this steaming pile of sh*t is happening.
night guys - 1AM here. d2 will be up in 4-6 hrs. and thats hoping we dont have any other mid-night dramas. thanks for the chat
Start a new thread! - Cadet
I have bought S's birthday present as W appears to be more interested in trying to sell the house.
Huddy, you do know that she cant do this without your consent, right? I'm assuming the house is in both names? In that case you both have to agree to sell.
Do you have a home report yet? That's the starting point and it'll cost around £500. If you don't want a home report but your wife does then she'll need to stump up the cash.
Also, she can't make you leave.
If she want's to force a sale through then she would need to apply to a court to do that and that's a looooong way off.
Play the cards you are dealt mate.
Huddy, the weekend does [censored]!!! Especially, bank holiday.
I am not looking forward to this bank holiday, the weekend we got married, the weekend our son was born. This is normally a very family orientated and special time for us.
Excellent for the GAL. I have only recently realised how different/ happier I feel/ am when I am engaged in something else's.
It impacts on my work colleagues and students too.
I will do what I deem necessary in my own time.
Remember that particular response, Huddy. It's a great reply to a pushy, bossy, WW.
As she's on her mobile, it'll be SIL. MIL is at work until 7, so that wasn't hard to figure out. I guess she wanted to be heard, because I'm in bathroom with kids and I could hear the sobbing above the bath running. Interspersed with lots of 'I knows'. No doubt I'll be the biggest b****** under the sun, but I didn't start this.
She will naturally turn where she gets support. You can't let what they think about you drive your actions.
SD tells me that W broke down earlier today, crying etc. saying how she wasn't happy how things were going. W said there is no way she is going to get back with me, but she is now thinking of staying in Scotland. Funny, seven weeks ago, there was no way she was staying up here.
That is good news, actually.
SD asks me to back off on DB strategy. I think that is wrong. In just two weeks I've gone from feeble, sobbing, needy wreck to feeling quite strong (despite last weeks backslide about the kids) and mentally in a better place. W appears to be starting to have doubts. This could be crocodile tears (just like Sandi2 says would happen) and I'm not really in a forgiving mood at the moment.
Whoa, wait a minute. How old is this SD? And why does she know all about your DB "strategy"? Just how much have you shared with your W's daughter?
I've told SD to have faith in the system. She felt that it would push W further away, but I told her it's meant to be counter intuitive. SD has agreed that it is alien to her, but will back me. For once in a long time, thanks to my new found friends on here, I actually feel in control.
Your WW is SD's mother, first and foremost. Which means, if she chooses between the two of you....it will be her mother. For all you know, she is telling you to back off with DBing b/c that is what dear ole mom wanted her to do. SD gets upset b/c her mother breaks down crying, so she starts to feel bad for mom. Whether WW actually asked SD to see if she could talk to you, IDK. But I know mothers & daughters, and from this point forward I suggest you not confide in SD about any more of your DB strategies. Let's just hope she doesn't tell her mom that this is all just a gimmick to get her back.
Don't listen to SD, b/c you
are getting stronger. As you said, look where you were just a short time ago.