Hi all, I've started a new thread with a new user name. SunnyB is for Sunnybrook. I was previously a three-initialed poster and for some of you the first initial will now make sense.
I felt like I needed a new thread because I had been in the same place for a very long time and I feel like it's time to move on. I don't want to say I was "stuck" because I wasn't, I was just choosing to consolidate. So many things had happened in the past year, heck, in the past six months, and I just needed some time to coast and regroup. Plus, I felt physically awful a lot of those past six months, and I didn't have energy to deal with much else. But with my leg procedure a week ago I finally feel like that's all behind me.
I have recently expressed my dissatisfaction with NC and how I think that's affecting me and affecting H. The past few days I experimented with more contact, and I have to say I don't really feel any differently. I'm still frustrated by his lack of response, even when I ask a direct question about the house or kids.
Although I have immensely enjoyed the time off work, I feel like it's time to start exploring some opportunities in hopes of landing something at the end of the summer. I'd like a little more financial independence, that will help ease my frustrations with H. It's not him, he's paying for everything he always has and everything I ask for. I ordered new flooring yesterday and a new dryer today. It's just the idea that I can only pay for so much on my own without hitting joint funds, he has always made many multiples of what I made and every account is joint. And right now my income is zero. So I need a job.
I hope my tribe will make the connection and come to my new thread: gan, Vanilla, Maybell, Claire, RD, Jim, bdub, Underdog, labug, Zues, raliced, Ahoy, zew, Stacey, and anyone else that I've had a temporary mental lapse on.
Sunnybrook
Ahh is it the book? Love the name.
xx
Yep, Stacey, that's the one. And how are you?
Oh not had a good day SunnyB, but I know it will pass. I found out today the settlement is not as expected - I can opt to have the house signed over to me - at a price, I will have to re-finance and will be paying for it until I retire, or sell. Either way it's win win for him. I am so tired of the drama. He is financially secure in his ivory tower with OW and his perfect life.
Maybe a new name is what I need?
Glad H is still supporting you financially as he should. Hope you get your CV out there and showcase your skills.
Sorry to hear the settlement is not going as you wish Stacey. That's one reason I've been content in limbo, it's financially advantageous for me. But I've been thinking lately that gaining independence means taking my chances in a division. Something to think about.
Hey, Sunny! Glad to hear you're moving forward. May this be the start of beautiful new things for you.
So now that we have a NEW YOU.
What is different and what is the same?
What else do you want to change?
Welcome to this new life!!
Thanks Maybell and Cadet!
What is different and what is the same?
What else do you want to change?
There is nothing different except my desire to move forward. I figure that's a start. I have four things I want to work on
1) Getting my health and fitness back after the last so many months of challenges. I want to get back to some things I enjoy (hello, oly bar) and try out some new things such as SUP paddleboarding and mud runs.
2) Finish some things around the house I never had time for when I was working full time with three kids at home. I'm having new flooring installed in about half the house in June, and I researched and priced and ordered it all myself, no help from H. That's huge for me.
3) It's time for me to explore returning to work.
4) I want to get some paperwork in order in case H decides to file, or if I decide to ask him to. We have mutually agreed not to file until September, but if that's when it's going to happen, I want to be prepared and not overwhelmed while I'm trying to start a new job. If I don't need it, then I'll still have a better picture of our financial situation.
Found you SunnyB. I have not had time to catch up, but I will. No more complaining about the cold from me. It was 89 yesterday. The crops are all planted and the corn is growing like crazy. Glad to see your got your S19 moved home all in one piece!!
Don't worry SunnyB, you'd have to be in the Witness Protection Program to shake us off your trail. Love the goals, you're not running from your sitch, you are just ready to move forward. I can see that being a final touch to feel like you're off on your new journey. And should you file come September I think you'll be ready in all ways to let go of the last thread of rope.
You are truly a very special woman with tremendous compassion. It gives all of us soon to be single men hope to know there are treasures like you that may be open to companionship in the days ahead. For you, well, I haven't given up on the Cruise Ship Captain.
Found you SunnyB. I have not had time to catch up, but I will. No more complaining about the cold from me. It was 89 yesterday. The crops are all planted and the corn is growing like crazy. Glad to see your got your S19 moved home all in one piece!!
Hey bdub! I've been wondering about you. Glad to see you've thawed a bit.
Yes, happy to have S19 back home, and now I remember what a challenge it is to keep him fed. Game on!
Thanks, Zues. Was it me who was going to get the Cruise Ship Captain? Maybe I'd better drive over to the port this weekend, he might be waiting. LOL
I really am thinking the next six months are critical for me. I don't know exactly what's going to happen, but I know I need to play a role in creating it. So I'm going to try and focus on those goals, I need all of you to help hold me accountable.
Happy Mothers Day to all the moms and Mr Moms out there. You guys are the best.
I just have to get this off my chest and there's no one else to tell. It's really eating at me that H hasn't said Happy Mothers Day even though we exchanged some texts about dinner and included a bit of small talk. I know I'm not his mother but neither are all the ladies at church and the waitress at his favorite breakfast place. I did carry and give birth to his three children. I wasn't looking for the diamond pendant but a simple greeting doesn't seem out of line to me.
The better question is probably why does it bother me so much and I think I know that too. That's another post.
I just have to get this off my chest and there's no one else to tell. It's really eating at me that H hasn't said Happy Mothers Day even though we exchanged some texts about dinner and included a bit of small talk.
Hello SunnyB,
I am so sorry to hear about this. Please hang in there, okay?
Happy Mother's Day to you!
Your friend,
Bob
Hi Sunny. I understand why it's annoying but it's an expectation that H would do something nice and on recent form that doesn't seem likely Maybe he forgot or maybe he wasn't sure what to do. Whichever it's happened and that's that. Best to put it where it really is, behind you Your H knows your an amazing mum because he's happy to leave his children with you Glad to hear S19'is home and nothing better for Mother's Day , than to have him home , appetite and all
Take care. Rd
Hi Sunny, try not to worry about your H. He knows you are a great Mum, and so do your kids.
But best to not have any expectations from him. There have been a couple of times recently when he has disappointed you - the tire, and when you had your procedure. But if there are no expectations, there can be no disappointment...tho it's hard I know.
I hope your kids make a big fuss of you, and you have a lovely day xx
Happy Mother's day Sunny!
You inspired me to acknowledge my STBX today. I hadn't been planning on it because of how negatively WAS's take these gestures a lot of the time, but now I realize it's simply the right thing to do for the person I want to be.
My day with the kids, I normally bring them back at 7. I asked her last week if she wanted the kids early, like morning, because it was a special day. She declined saying she was going to spend the day with her mother. I just heard back that she radically underestimated how much she would want to spend time with the kids today and if I could still bring them by early, so I will be dropping them off shortly. Then I wished her a happy MD. Nice to make a deposit into the goodwill coparenting bank as well, even if it feels like mailing in a minimum payment on a 25K maxed out credit card at 29.99% APR
Hi Bob, thanks for stopping by with words of encouragement. That's why I posted here.
Hi Sunny. I understand why it's annoying but it's an expectation that H would do something nice and on recent form that doesn't seem likely Maybe he forgot
Yeah, RD, I tried to pass it off as he forgot this morning, but after he'd been to church and most likely wished every woman in the room happy Mother's Day at the passing of the peace, well....no, he didn't forget.
Hi Sunny, try not to worry about your H. He knows you are a great Mum, and so do your kids.
You know, Toots, someone said the other day that her H had never told her she was a good mom, it might have been Claire. I don't remember my H ever telling me that either, in all these years. I put so much time and effort into being a great mom and he never acknowledged that.
Happy Mother's day Sunny! You inspired me to acknowledge my STBX today. I hadn't been planning on it because of how negatively WAS's take these gestures a lot of the time, but now I realize it's simply the right thing to do for the person I want to be.
Zues, I'm sincerely proud of you. It WAS the right thing to do. Good job.
As far as expectations go, yes, I'll admit I do have expectations of him. I expect him to be as polite to me as he would be to the cashier at the grocery or the waitress at the restaurant. I have no doubt he told them Happy Mother's Day. That's really all I wanted.
You all have made me feel better and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I went for a long walk today and had a good cry, the first one in a really long time. I came up with a few revelations which I'll post tomorrow.
Best to you all.
Sunny,
You're welcome! I'm glad that we all made you feel better.
Going for a long walk was a good idea.
xoxo
Bob
So my day yesterday got off to a rocky start but ended up beautifully. I had invited H and D12 for dinner, my way of getting us all together since H hadn't brought it up. We grilled steaks and had a very nice time together. The kids gave me a generous salon certificate, which of course H had funded. The kids wrote me individual cards and my D17 wrote that "anyone who can't see how wonderful you are is a fool." Best. Card. Ever. And in the end, as he was leaving, H and I hugged and he said Happy Mothers Day.
I still need to post some thoughts on what I want going forward. But I'm off to the gym with S19, so later this afternoon.
So.....as I was crying in the park yesterday, I just came to the realization that I really do want to be free of H. The S has damaged our R so badly that I think the only way to recover is to end it all together and hope for a fresh start someday. Up until now I've been afraid of the financial ramifications, but yesterday it seemed like something I was willing to tackle. Like when you are 9 months pregnant and you don't care how much labor hurts, you are just ready not to be pregnant anymore.
That's what I thought yesterday, I'm not going to go off and do anything crazy. I'll sit with that a while, put my paperwork together, and re-evaluate. But just wanted to get that out there, I said I'd follow up and post it, so there it is. If you'd have asked me a year ago where I'd be now, never in my wildest dreams would I have said this.
Funny how things change when you've already suffered the full loss of the D and no longer have anything to fear.
I agree you need to be free from this man. If he changes from a frog to a prince someday, has regrets, and you're still single, who knows. You're strong enough to not need to put him on your "dead to you" list. But definitely you need a partner that sees your value. It doesn't look like he does.
Everyone on these boards do. See my post on my thread yesterday, it won't be your original M, but in many, many ways it may prove to be quite a bit better. Sorry he fell short and put you through so much, but I hope you are proud when you look in the mirror.
But definitely you need a partner that sees your value. It doesn't look like he does.
Everyone on these boards do.
Thank you Zues, your response means the world to me. I just never imagined I'd get to this point. I've known for a long time that I didn't want to be M to this version of H, but I still thought that if I held out long enough maybe it would work out. Or more likely that I would be content to keep the legal status and live separate lives. I just can't do that anymore. I cannot live my life while legally tethered to him and our joint bank accounts. And I won't date while I'm technically M. I believe that when God sends me the right guy he won't be someone else's H, and conversely, that I won't be someone else's W.
So that leaves me pursuing my goal of putting paperwork in order, something I already planned to do but it just became so clear yesterday.
In other news....
This is our first summer of child sharing. I am grateful that we are both flexible about this and even though I have minor frustrations, he's turned out to be a really good dad and all our vacations will work out for our kids best interests without either of us getting legalistic about scheduling. And I'm hopeful that we will be able to keep this up for the next 6 years of shared parenting and that we won't fall apart during legal proceedings.
Yes, I know what you mean. Last year on Mother's Day I was crying my eyes out. And I actually flung a bowl on the floor -- something I've never, ever done before. (Sadly, it bounced... So I picked it up and flung it more carefully so it would actually break... talk about anticlimactic).
With regard to the legal side of things, I think it's good for you to start taking charge of your situation. I've been worried about you for a long time and I'm glad things are coming into focus for you.
Keep things strictly between the lawyers and you'll be able to separate the personal from the financial to preserve your parenting relationship.
I think you'll be well. I'm glad your D17 was so sweet in your card. I agree with her.
I actually flung a bowl on the floor -- something I've never, ever done before. (Sadly, it bounced... So I picked it up and flung it more carefully so it would actually break... talk about anticlimactic).
Hijacking Sunny's thread to say Maybell, this is the cutest thing I've ever read. It ranks right there with me mispelling my username. You just put a big smile on MY face
And, for a secondary hijack, your talk reminds me...today I got word back from STBX's L...cliff notes, my parenting and financial proposal was scoffed at, said to be out of the question, and we are giving up on phase 1 (lawyer to lawyer resolution) and now scheduling mediation (phase 2). If this fails it's to the courts! The reason I brought this up? A month ago it rocked my boat. Today, I was like "meh". The process will play out how it plays out. My STBX's L is hired to do this and apparently believes in going for the last dime, and my STBX may have twisted things into thinking she's the victim, who knows, I'm through mind reading. All I know is I don't care. I was surprised it didn't even make my update today!
Of course, that could change, maybe later tonight I'll be throwing dishes at the floor...repeatedly
I actually flung a bowl on the floor -- something I've never, ever done before. (Sadly, it bounced... So I picked it up and flung it more carefully so it would actually break... talk about anticlimactic).
Hijacking Sunny's thread to say Maybell, this is the cutest thing I've ever read.
Agree, MB you really made me smile with this one. I had one dish-smashing incident, but I did it with a hammer over a trash can. Very effective and tidy. It was an item I had given H and he left when he moved out. Later, he came looking for it and I declared I had no idea what happened to it and had a new one made for him.
With regard to the legal side of things, I think it's good for you to start taking charge of your situation. I've been worried about you for a long time and I'm glad things are coming into focus for you.
Wait...I was so caught up in MB flinging dishes I forgot this part.
I know you have often urged me towards action, MB, but I just wasn't ready. Part of it was my health issues had my world narrowed a bit, most of it was just that it was working for me. I had everything I needed, everything I always had, except a man in my bed. (Not underestimating the power of that, mind you). There was really no reason to move forward. And none of that has changed, except a little switch in my brain is longing for independence. I honestly have my doubts if filing/forcing a D is right for my kids, from a financial standpoint. If I don't rock the boat, things won't change. So I do question why I would do this, but I'm going to inch that way anyway. Slowly, so I can back off before the tipping point if necessary.
Sunny - One little comment here and its only because I see a few similarities here. It's always sounded to me like you trust your H to do the right thing financially. I generally trusted STBX too (probably about 95% of the time) and nothing has really happened to change that.
But - it was sure hammered into my head by every lawyer I spoke with and every person IRL that I consulted who has experience in these matters, that when there is an OW in the mix, that trustworthiness can erode rapidly. I do feel a lot more secure in the knowledge that there is a legal settlement in place.
Your situation is your own- and you're a smart lady - so I'm sure you will make all the right decisions to protect yourself.
Hi Sunny. You sound vey sure of your road and far be it for me to suggest anything else. Can I ask if you could leave your decision stand for a month or so before you do anything. You have always supported me and I'm so grateful , I would like to offer some small support back. In your posts you praise H for the good ex he will be and you posted how Mother's Day ended up well Making these decisions is hard and fraught with problems. You only agreed recently to extend your seperation and now you have decided to move on.
Sunny. This situation is so difficult and I urge you to stand back from your choice , not change it , but stand back and let it sink in.
Like so many others here it's hard to read your posts sometimes because you obviously still love this man and have tried to DB and work through it. As a pal I'd just like you to be 200 % sure
I hope you don't mind but I care what happens to you and life choices such as these have ramifications for the rest of your life and so many others
Take care. Rd. xx
It's always sounded to me like you trust your H to do the right thing financially.
You are right, raliced, I have been trusting him to do the right thing. And with the exception of one chunk of $ about a year ago, I haven't seen anything that would indicate otherwise. But your point is well-taken, just because he has good intentions now doesn't mean he will continue to have them a few years down the road. After all, I trusted him to be faithful and to stay in our M no matter what and we all know how that worked out.
Hi Sunny. You sound vey sure of your road and far be it for me to suggest anything else. Can I ask if you could leave your decision stand for a month or so before you do anything.
Like so many others here it's hard to read your posts sometimes because you obviously still love this man and have tried to DB and work through it. As a pal I'd just like you to be 200 % sure
RD, I'm so glad you chimed in! I promise I'm not doing anything hasty, I'm only compiling paperwork at this point. Neither one of us has ever used the "D" word, ever, not even in temper, not at BD, not at the end of the first S period. It's not something I take lightly, I assure you. And my time frame for this is more than a month, September, in fact. That's the end of the "second" S period. Lots of time to think.
I do still love him. For the first 7 months, I would have swept it all under the rug and trudged on. (I'm not saying that's healthy or sustainable, I'm saying I totally would have done it. )Then he moved out. But even after the first four months of S, if he'd have said "let's try" I'd have given it all I had. Now, I just don't see a way for it to work. Every day that we are S, every day that he ignores me, every day that he shows in a million little ways that I'm not important, my heart hardens a little, RD. Things I put up with because I thought that's what Ws do (and I know I was deluded there but that's what I thought) are no longer acceptable because he no longer comes home to me at night. If I continue to be tied to him, and my love keeps eroding, pretty soon there's going to be nothing left. I just feel like I need to get out now, to protect anything that might be left there. I know that may not make a lot of sense, but that's simply where I am right now.
Hi Sunny. Always glad to chime in but I don't have any say sad ice just support.
I do get where your coming from but you are early in the stages of this looking at others sitchs. As I posted to Pink this is all about time. I know what you mean about your heart hardening but is it really or are you just tired of the percived actions of H ?
If you read some of the success stories on here the perception of the WAS and their thinking was completely wrong.
For example , the tyre episode , when I first read that I was appalled , I could t belive that he didn't come back to change the tyre for you , then you posted you drove to the garage ! !!!! So tyre wasn't flat but low If you H got the impression it was low and not flat then I understand his attitude
You have no idea how your H is feeling or what he is thinking. , could be be leaving you to your own devices hoping you'll ask him for help , could be just be just doesn't care. Out of the two which is right , who knows maybe neither but we do know that while H may not be in love with you at the moment but he still has feelings no matter what he says and he would not see you desperately stuck
Glad you giving it time and I think letting go of the outcome is the key.
Take care. Rd. xx
Sunny, I'm sorry if you felt pressured by me. It's not so much that I thought you should divorce, as that I felt like it hadn't all sunk in on you what he had done. It's easy to overlook that I had 9 months of watching my marriage go down the tubes in slo-mo before I even found DB where yours has been shorter.
Like you I trusted my STBX to do the right thing financially. Which he has more or less done; nothing has gone unpaid, I'm not on short strings, etc. But as time goes by he's been thinking more about his life, living financially the way he wants to, running up the credit cards as though four other people don't rely on his income, and disregarding that our needs amount to anything. I am very anxious to get my financial house in order and I can't do that with Don Juan over there impressing the ladies with marital funds. If your H's affair sizzles out that could be the direction things take and I'd like you to be in better position should that occur. I don't mean to pressure you, though, your risk is probably smaller.
I can't believe you replaced the plate, though. It should have stayed lost.
Hugs!!!
It was a coffee mug with a photo of his band on it. I had given it to him in an Easter basket a couple years ago and he used it all the time. Right before he left I was offering him extra things out of the kitchen and he declined to take any of the mugs because they didn't match. Completely turned up his nose at the idea that his dishes might look less than perfect. I was so offended he didn't want the gift I had given him that I smashed it. But then when he asked for it later, I felt badly, so...
I do still love him. For the first 7 months, I would have swept it all under the rug and trudged on. (I'm not saying that's healthy or sustainable, I'm saying I totally would have done it. )Then he moved out. But even after the first four months of S, if he'd have said "let's try" I'd have given it all I had. Now, I just don't see a way for it to work. Every day that we are S, every day that he ignores me, every day that he shows in a million little ways that I'm not important, my heart hardens a little, RD. Things I put up with because I thought that's what Ws do (and I know I was deluded there but that's what I thought) are no longer acceptable because he no longer comes home to me at night. If I continue to be tied to him, and my love keeps eroding, pretty soon there's going to be nothing left. I just feel like I need to get out now, to protect anything that might be left there. I know that may not make a lot of sense, but that's simply where I am right now.
Totally understandable Sunny.
I think it just takes time to accept the D as real. That's why it's so hard to "rush" the grieving process. Grieving the end of a marriage isn't just a one time thing. First you grieve the commitment to be loved for your life. Then you grieve the trust you had in your partner. The communications throughout the day. Then it’s the loving things you do for each other. The future that you had been looking forward to. The adversity that comes with the D that you didn’t want to contend with. The discord in your children’s life. The inside jokes. The belief that love can conquer all. But even still, much further down the road there is more grieving to do. Having someone that considers your welfare, has you in their mind and heart. And so many other things that come with it.
You have managed through this admirably, but it is so much. Really, when I hear that your H isn’t considerate of you, isn’t attentive to you, it doesn’t surprise me. Most separated couples don’t continue to meet each other’s emotional needs. But I can see how, particularly when the D word has never been uttered, you could have interpreted that to mean that at least some of the care and goodwill that was built could be preserved. I think you’re simply coming to terms with the fact that this is probably where he thought you two were heading when he declared his desire for a separation. Just another loss in the long line of losses.
I think you’re wise to move through as much of this as you did without taking legal action yourself. You didn’t “lose time” as those months were critical for you to let go, heal, restructure your life to meet your own needs, and work through a lot of the emotions that come from this. That all said, I’ve heard from my IC, L, and a few other trusted advisors that finalizing things does help bring a sense of closure. Both symbolically, and from the fact that you can literally look at that chapter of your life as closed. It lets the murky waters settle down. True, it’s “only a piece of paper” and people remarry on occasion, etc. But I do think that when you’re ready it will be appropriate to put it to bed. But beyond the fact that you’re not “losing time”, you will be truly ready to take that step (or as ready as you will be), and you will know you did it the way that matched your values, beliefs, and character. And you’ll always be able to look in the mirror proudly for the way you handled it, because you have handled this so exceptionally.
I do get where your coming from but you are early in the stages of this looking at others sitchs.
I know what you mean about your heart hardening but is it really or are you just tired of the percived actions of H ?
For example , the tyre episode , when I first read that I was appalled , I could t belive that he didn't come back to change the tyre for you , then you posted you drove to the garage ! !!!! So tyre wasn't flat but low If you H got the impression it was low and not flat then I understand his attitude.
RD, I no longer feel like I'm new at this, BD was over a year ago. And there really hasn't been any hope whatsoever during that year. No crying, no I'm miserable, no I'm willing to try, no anything other than the ice cube he's always been.
It's not that I need his help, it's that I want to know I'm important to him. The tire was low, not flat, I didn't need his help driving to the station. We both understood that. What I desperately wanted, though, is a follow up phone call or text asking if I'd made it OK and if they got it fixed. I didn't receive that. Same thing with the 700 mile drive and with the leg procedure. I don't need his assistance with those, I wanted his concern. I wanted five minutes of his day to make sure I'm OK. I got it from my friends, it's not an unreasonable request. Except when the other person just doesn't care. And you are correct that I don't know what he's thinking. But if he's secretly really concerned with my wellbeing and just not saying anything, well, then, that doesn't do me any good.
Sunny, I'm sorry if you felt pressured by me. It's not so much that I thought you should divorce, as that I felt like it hadn't all sunk in on you what he had done.
MB, I never felt like you were pressuring me or judging me in any way, I just sometimes felt like you didn't understand that I was content with the way things were. Not happy with them, but willing to let them be for a while. But I always understood that you were speaking from experience and concern, so it was all good.
Really, when I hear that your H isn’t considerate of you, isn’t attentive to you, it doesn’t surprise me. Most separated couples don’t continue to meet each other’s emotional needs.
I know. But I've seen it happen, including H's own mother and father, and I just thought we could do it, too. I've always been naïve.
I think you’re wise to move through as much of this as you did without taking legal action yourself.
I really thought I could do it longer than this. Between private prep schools and colleges and a good sized house, there's a lot of cash to be thrown down on behalf of my kids in next few years, and I thought I could play the game long enough to ensure that it happened. And I don't know for sure that I won't, but I'm making an escape plan just in case. Just like H did. He tried to play the game, couldn't do it, and left. It's come full circle now.
Yup, the escape plan.
My STBX wanted to be a stay at home mom. Her mom was a SAHM that raised the kids, then divorced her dad when they were all in school. X-MIL is now single and still very resentful towards her ex. That was STBX's dream as well. She wanted three children and to be able to raise them. The sex stopped after our third child, and now that the youngest is nearing kindergarden age the bomb got dropped. In many ways I don't think she ever expected a life long partnership with me, but wanted my sperm and support while she raised the kids. Now she's ready to cut bait. And her only regret was "she wished she could've made it until the youngest was in school".
I know if you asked her she would say she wanted to make her M work, and that it was a goal of hers. But I really do think that raising the children was a NEED of hers, M was a want, and that's why she stopped investing in the M and was a overachieving mom.
I said this once long ago and was told I was rewriting history, diagnosing my ex, making excuses when the issue was my mistreatment of her. Truly I'm not interested in doing that. I know our history, I know my actions, and I know what went through her head is irrelevant to what I need to do now.
I just know that I understand the feeling of being played a fool when you thought you were working on something together and the other person had been checked out a long time.
Hi SunnyB,
Well i was a littel slow on the uptake so have jsut caught up with your thread.
It feels a bit late to weigh in on much of this but i do fully get the frustration that comes from those occassions when we have expectations of consideration that arent met when in truth they arent anything that is beyond the consideration we would should an aquaintance.
But zues was right we can all see your value.
I hope you're having a good day
Hi SunnyB,i do fully get the frustration that comes from those occassions when we have expectations of consideration that arent met when in truth they arent anything that is beyond the consideration we would should an aquaintance.
Jim, you have nailed it exactly. I'm only looking for the level of courtesy he dishes out to every service worker in this city. The man is incredibly charming. Except to me. And one of these days I'll stop caring......
Sunny
Once a member of the cheesecake crew always a moooose caller.
I am glad to see you flying free a little. A holding pattern is often important before a descent into landing. I have always seen you as the pilot of your own plane but somehow circling until your final destination is known.
You can choose any destination you please. WH need not be a navigator any longer. As a fully fledged pilot, you can fly any plane you choose and go long haul in a deluxe plane. heck, even airforce one can be yours. if you fancy a view how about a helicopter? Peace and quiet? A glider may be?
Your choice, but you know this. It is also a choice not to choose.
To be in that holding pattern if that is what you need. I am relieved to see you start to have your own flight path.
V
Thank you for the encouragement, V and also for recognizing that it's been my choice to not move forward. Until now.
My GAL is solid these days. Friday I went to a comedy club with a group of friends, went paddleboarding on Saturday morning. The rest of the weekend has been quiet, played in the pool with D12 this afternoon, worked on a house project. I am happy with my life.
I still get frustrated by H's inability to answer direct questions about the kids, or pretty much anything for that matter. But I don't ask a lot of questions, and don't think too much about him otherwise.
Hey lady, just letting you know I stopped by. You seem to be doing well, I'm glad.
Thanks, Maybell. I don't update a lot, there just isn't much to say right now. And I'm just fine with that.
Well, it's been a week since I really posted an update, so here it is: ________________________________________. Ha!
I went paddleboarding again this weekend, had a lovely time. Hung out with my D17 quite a bit. D12 was away at a theme park with H for the weekend.
Yesterday at paddleboarding I met a couple of women who are going to do the mudruns I was looking at but was a little intimidated to do. After talking to them, I decided if they can do it, I can, too. So, I'll be signing up for a couple of local events later in the summer. Any of you guys ever done one?
I feel like I ought to say something about H, but there's just nothing to tell. We parent nicely together, and that's it. I don't know how he's spending his time, he doesn't know how I'm spending mine. I assume he's dating the duck and a few others, he assumes I'm dating, too (I'm not). I'm busy and I'm happy.
Hello Sunny,
I'm very happy to hear that! Good for you...
Thank you for this kind post in my thread:
"Hi Bob, you are such an upbeat person on these boards. I hope your week is off to a great start."I am humbled and blushing but will graciously accept your kind words.
My week is off to a great start. It sounds like your's is, too.
Sending a few big *Hugs* your way!
Bob
Hi Sunny
Oh to have the climate where things like paddleboarding are a credible GAL option.
Sounds like things are going pretty well all things considered.
how are you finding the frustration?
Bob, glad your week is off to a good start.:)
how are you finding the frustration?
Well, it's......frustrating. My only real frustration with him is when I ask him something related to D12's schedule or maybe a house issue and he just won't answer. For a while I was trying to keep contact down to a minimum and so I'd save up things to ask him and do it all in one big giant text or email. And then he'd sort of answer the first thing and ignore the other 4. So I stopped doing that, I break it down into bits for him, and that seems to work better, even if I do contact him more days. I don't feel any differently when I do talk to him or don't so the smaller bits seems to work better.
Today I had lunch with a friend whose M I've always admired, I thought they were the perfect match. Not so much. I feel like she's about to be a WAW. I had no idea. Which goes back to what my IC said once, that when some of my friends find out about S, they might be jealous or envious. I couldn't imagine, but seeing my friend's pain, I can see that.
Jim, I'm rather thrilled that paddleboarding has become a viable GAL for me. I'm also going to be doing some kayaking and may enter a few mud runs. I welcome all to accompany me in those activities!
Just be careful where you use your paddle board!
Ducks are always vulnerable to swelling. Since H is going round in paddle boats, I know you may see this pair and wave goodbye.
Sunny I see Maybell making similar choices of holding patterns.
V
You know, V, apparently the duck didn't turn out the be the soul mate he thought. Imagine that. I only asked him once, at the end of the "first" 4-mo S and from his answer it seemed they are on again/off again and I get the feeling he's dating others as well. Since I'm not one of them, I kind of don't care.
Sunny,
Just got to say that you have got to be the winner in the GAL category, along with learning new ways to communicate. It's important to pay attention to what works and what doesn't.
BTW, Mr. Wonderful can't deal with a delayed list of things either. Like your H, he only addresses the first one and then he's tuned out. He was like this before as well. I think it goes to the multi tasking thing?
I try to ask for one thing, and it usually works better for me to text. Unless it's a bigger thing, which I usually address via phone. Anyway, just want to pat you on the back.
Paddleboating sounds awesome. I'm hoping to do a little of that when D18 and I fly home next month. They rent out paddle boats in the tidal basin, and I think it sounds fun. Unless it's 95 with 90 percent humidity. Then I think we'll do something indoors. With A/C blasting.
Take care-
Betsey
Hi Sunny, I haven't posted for a while, but I do read your updates, and I think you are doing so well. Your sitch has some similarities to mine in terms of timescale and the stage things are at.
It's good to read that you have limited interest in what H is up to - only in parenting stuff - and that you are experimenting with what works best rather than just getting frustrated and blaming him or yourself.
Good for you with the great GAL activities. I'm keeping pretty busy just now and it helps for sure.
Take care, Toots xx
Just got to say that you have got to be the winner in the GAL category, along with learning new ways to communicate.
Why, thank you, Bets! These are things I have wanted to try for a long time, but felt inadequate because H told me I was. Now I don't listen to him anymore. Ha!
Unless it's 95 with 90 percent humidity. Then I think we'll do something indoors.
Well, that's sort of a typical day in Miami, so......
Hi Sunny, I haven't posted for a while, but I do read your updates, and I think you are doing so well.
Thanks, Toots, I'm so glad you stopped by and posted. I just have so little to say these days that my thread often drifts many pages back. I suppose that's a good thing, but this board has been such a source of support and inspiration to me that I still check often. Glad to know others are reading.
You really sound like you have things under control and as others have said its really good that you dont have much interest in your H's dating habits.
Paddleboarding would be great but somehow i suspect it will lose some of the appeal in the drizzle of the UK.
Sunny I think we'd be good friends IRL.
Sunny I think we'd be good friends IRL.
I think so too, MB. You need a vacation to Miami, don't you think?
I have always loved having guys as friends, in college and as a young professional, most of my good friends were male. After we all got M and especially after having kids I felt like that wasn't really an option anymore. That guy I want as a friend is somebody's H and somebody's dad. I really missed that. Now I have made a few single guy friends lately, BUT... There's one guy that I'd like to be friends with, and I wouldn't rule out dating somewhere down the road, but gosh, he's just pressing me beyond my comfort zone. I'm going to have to get rid of him. Is this what I have to look forward to?
Good problem to have. Nobody at all is knocking on my door.
Not that I'm even remotely ready. My cup runneth over.
Btw, I could really use a tip or two for dealing with disrespectful tween girl who doesn't take me seriously when I ban potty humor from the dinner table.
Paddleboarding would be great but somehow i suspect it will lose some of the appeal in the drizzle of the UK.
You guys are all whiners. It's too hot and humid, it's too cold and drizzly. Just kidding, you are all great.
I keep thinking about my friend who's borderline WAW. She's entirely faithful to her H, but she's losing respect for him because he's not standing up and being a man in a very specific way. Her resentment is growing and turning into disgust. I feel so sorry for her, for her H, I want to slap him and point out he's about to lose the best thing that ever happened to him. It's fascinating to watch it play out just the way I read about here and know there's nothing I can do to stop the car crash. It's something they'll have to figure out.
It's funny you say that Sunny, I also know someone who is a WAW. She's not a good friend, more of an acquaintance. But she has told her long term partner their R is over (although they still cohabit) and she is dating, and seeming in a very sexual frame of mind. I know her partner slightly, but certainly not enough to recommend this site to him. I am sitting on the sidelines and watching.
On the plus side, a good friend of mine told me how sad he was this weekend that his BF and W had S (her choice.) I was able to suggest the site to him!!
I keep thinking about my friend who's borderline WAW. She's entirely faithful to her H, but she's losing respect for him because he's not standing up and being a man in a very specific way. Her resentment is growing and turning into disgust. I feel so sorry for her, for her H, I want to slap him and point out he's about to lose the best thing that ever happened to him. It's fascinating to watch it play out just the way I read about here and know there's nothing I can do to stop the car crash. It's something they'll have to figure out.
Funny Sunny, I see the flip side (maybe because I'm an LBH). And REMEMBER- I don’t know the sitch, you do. But when I hear about a potential WAW, I picture someone that isn’t satisfied with their H, that views them through a lens of resentment, criticism, and disgust. The fact is that the vast majority of M’s are dissolved by WAW’s, and I feel this attitude is at the center. Bottom line, I don’t know any women that don’t feel this way about their H’s at times. The only question is going to be do you remain committed to a flawed human and appreciate what you have or do you reject it because you feel entitled to more.
So her H isn’t the person she’d create him to be. That’s life. You can either judge him, condemn him, diminish him, abandon him, and destroy a M (only to find out there are NO perfect men and the next man will have other areas she’ll disrespect and resent, only on top of a broken family)…or she can find her own happiness, make changes in herself and choose to treat him lovingly and with appreciation and respect- which may actually prompt a different response from her H. And if it doesn’t, she could maybe accept that you don’t get everything you want in life, but choose to keep a M together and walk a good path for herself and her family. I believe that staying in the M is right, and that if they stay together in 3 years or 5 years it will be a different dynamic, particularly if she worked on herself using DB principles. Yes, that’s a long time, and it stinks to feel hurt, neglected, or unappreciated, etc. But D isn’t an easier or better path in my opinion unless there is true danger to the family.
Anyway, those are my beliefs. I recognize I am very fiery on the subject. Partly because of what I’ve gone through. But frankly I’ve always felt this way which is why I never would have walked despite some serious deficits in the M. I just don’t think it’s ok, and I hope to find a woman that agrees someday. I do still know a few men who’s wives have stayed with them for the count, and it’s not because their H’s are prince charming…it’s because they are princess accepting.
To be clear- I'm not defending the H's behavior (which I don't know) But what he does and how she responds are two different things. No doubt he does need a slap too!
Zues, I hear you and respect your opinion. And I know that I would have NEVER walked away from my M, even though I can often identify with the WAWs here. Never.
However, in my friend's case, I totally understand where she's coming from. It's not a matter of how they are treating each other, it's a matter of how he is/isn't leading and providing for their family. It's not about money, it's about leadership. His successful business went down in the recession, and never recovered. He had brilliance, talent, connections people only dream of, and he adamantly refused to use any of it to move on, he stayed on the sinking ship, is there still. His mom is paying the household expenses out of her retirement fund, and he allows that. My friend, the W, has gone to work for the first time in their M life, she travels a lot and has missed the kids recitals, plays, games, and bedtime stories. He still refuses to step up and try something different. My friend received an anniversary present from her H, and he was open that mom bought it. To be clear, it's not about the money, she is totally OK with a modest lifestyle. It's about a man stepping up and doing what it takes to provide for his family, trying something new if what he's been doing for the past 8 years isn't working out, taking the steps to provide for your own and not bankrupt your mother. Really, that's the only issue going on, but in my opinion, it's a pretty big one.
Zues, I hear you and respect your opinion. And I know that I would have NEVER walked away from my M, even though I can often identify with the WAWs here. Never.
Thanks Sunny. I appreciate your understanding I wasn't arguing, just expressing my beliefs. And your commitment to M is inspiring. I believe you, and it's assuring to know there are women out there that feel this way. I may be working on Zues 2.0, but no matter how much I grow I would imagine there are times my future partner will feel this way. I hope I can find someone that is willing to remain committed.
I think about the old days, how you'd hear of marriages where one partner stayed through infidelity, alcoholism, unemployment, gambling addictions, physical abuse, etc. Now, I am glad that things have progressed to where women (or men) don't feel trapped in a dangerous relationship and this is a serious issue. But I think the D rate is serious as well in it's own way, and I admire spouses that stay with their partner through some of these other character flaws.
My good friend has a W who is a compulsive gambler which has lead to lying, stealing, embezzlement and termination of employment, and a withdrawal from any type of mature M. He has been by her side the entire time. 5-10 years of progressive issues. He only talks to me about it because he says everyone else kept telling him to leave her. Guess what? She's in GA treatment now for 90 days and they're working together more closely than ever before. THIS is marriage in my mind. True, they don't all work this way, and maybe she relapses, etc. But even still...that's life. God doesn't owe us a perfect partner. We're blessed to have a partner, and our job is to support and love them, whatever we get in return is a GIFT, not an entitlement. Getting a D in my book should be as rare as voluntarily placing your growing kids up for adoption or putting them in foster care.
However, in my friend's case, I totally understand where she's coming from. It's not a matter of how they are treating each other, it's a matter of how he is/isn't leading and providing for their family. It's not about money, it's about leadership. His successful business went down in the recession, and never recovered. He had brilliance, talent, connections people only dream of, and he adamantly refused to use any of it to move on, he stayed on the sinking ship, is there still. His mom is paying the household expenses out of her retirement fund, and he allows that. My friend, the W, has gone to work for the first time in their M life, she travels a lot and has missed the kids recitals, plays, games, and bedtime stories. He still refuses to step up and try something different. My friend received an anniversary present from her H, and he was open that mom bought it. To be clear, it's not about the money, she is totally OK with a modest lifestyle. It's about a man stepping up and doing what it takes to provide for his family, trying something new if what he's been doing for the past 8 years isn't working out, taking the steps to provide for your own and not bankrupt your mother. Really, that's the only issue going on, but in my opinion, it's a pretty big one.
Yup. I can understand the issues here. No easy answers. Clearly this would require a lot of boundaries, some tough love, and no enabling. I would hope she can find ways of restructuring her life to where she is protected from his issues but still leaving a paved road back for when he wants to step up again. To be fair, you said she "felt" like a WAW. There's a big difference between feeling that way and leaving. I don't blame her for feeling that way. I'd hope she doesn't leave, but each to their own. Not everyone feels how I do or we wouldn't have these forums.
Anyway- thanks for talking about it Sunny. You really do give me a lot of hope that the qualities I'm looking for are out there. Take care!
Good discussion, Zues.
At this point my friend has no plans to walk. I just see the resentment growing and know it's going to poison her. It's sad.
I'm leaving tomorrow, driving 14 hours to the state where I grew up. Last night I texted H and asked him to call me today about some logistics related to my being gone a week, the teens staying here, and getting their rooms emptied and ready for the new flooring. He said he'd call this afternoon. So at 6:30pm, I texted him again to see if he was going to call. Sigh......this is why I get frustrated with the man. These things were important to me, I asked him to call, he said he would, then didn't until I nagged. If there's one thing I have NOT been over the years, it was a nag, and if I didn't really need to touch base with him before I left tomorrow, I'd have let it go. Anyway, we did end up talking, he understood everything I needed and said he'd take care of it, and...this is the important part....told me to drive safely and call him when I got there. If you remember my complaints about driving to bring home S19 from school, you'll know this was big for me. Maybe he doesn't actually give a cr*p and he just felt obligated to say it because we were on the phone, but I'll take it. Happily.
And I should have known better. He asked me to let him know I'd gotten here, so I did. And I have no idea if he read the text because he never replied, not even a "good". I just drove 800 miles non stop and he can't even give me a one-syllable acknowledgment . Clearly he does not have my best interests anywhere on his radar screen, I need to stay focused on my goals
I need to stay focused on my goals
Hello Sunny,
That is sad to hear, but I love the way you ended your post. Right on!
Try to have a good evening.
*Hugs*
and more *Hugs*
Bob
Thanks Bob. It's just a mystery to me why he can't be as civil to me as to anyone else. I've done nothing to him to deserve this, he's the one that cheated and walked and I've only been upbeat, polite, cheery, validating. I don't contact him frivolously.
But today's a new day and he can be juvenile if he likes, it doesn't affect my plans. I am taking D12 to a used book store she loves and to her favorite restaurant.
My take, Sunny, is that they feel really guilty, but don't want to accept those feelings. So, they turn us into the bad guy, deserving of their anger, so that they can look themselves in the mirror. Or perhaps it's just that they are the kind of people who cannot look inward, so they need to find an outward source of their unhappiness. It must be us, right?
My H still seems so angry with me-- he's told me that I "make" him feel guilty, and resents me for that. (What on earth could he possibly have to feel guilty about?!? haha). What power he gives me over his feelings. I feel sorry for him.
Try to let it roll off- so much of this is just not about us AT ALL. The more I detach and live my life apart from him, I see that clearly.
Sorry Sunny. I don't know your H but to me this sounds more dense than disrespectful.
I might be a bit dense too. I'm not sure I would've thought to ask for a text confirming you were safe. It might not even dawn on me that there was a risk, I might just take it for granted you'd be fine the same way if you told me you were going to the grocery store. And- if it did occur to me to ask to make sure you were ok, I could see getting the text and not responding just because- hey, I wasn't the one driving anywhere, you weren't worried about me.
I'm not sure, I haven't been in that exact spot. But I certainly have failed to live up to other people's ideas of what is civil behavior unintentionally.
Now if your H treated you differently during the M and is only now acting this way, then I'd say he's acting strange. But if this is the way he's always been I don't think it's because he's trying to be disrespectful, maybe he's just a dumb guy sometimes.
Point is unvoiced expectations and mindreading don't make anything better. But you know this, and you're doing the right thing by continuing to "phase him out" like Ross's English accent in that Friends episode...
Thanks Bob. It's just a mystery to me why he can't be as civil to me as to anyone else. I've done nothing to him to deserve this, he's the one that cheated and walked and I've only been upbeat, polite, cheery, validating. I don't contact him frivolously.
But today's a new day and he can be juvenile if he likes, it doesn't affect my plans. I am taking D12 to a used book store she loves and to her favorite restaurant.
You're welcome Sunny. You're right, of course! You have done nothing to deserve to be treated this way.
Nothing!I love your PMA. Today is a new day. Have a great time with your D!
Many *Hugs*
Bob
Good morning! Yesterday turned out to be a lovely day. Spent the afternoon in the used bookstore -it's huge- and dinner at d12's favorite restaurant. My mom tagged along and we all had a good time.
Claire, honestly, it would be nice to think there was some guilt there. Some emotion of some sort at least. He's the biggest ice cube ever. But I do need to remember it's not really about me these days. He will do what he will do and who knows why.
Zeus, I'm a really strong independent woman who can take care or herself but wants confirmation that I'm valued and cherished. I used to say "just because I can take care of myself doesn't mean I want to". In a way, I trained him to treat me the way he does because I took care of myself but never demanded or even asked for the second part. Should a husband have offered up some caring to his wife? Yes, but I never called him on it when I had the chance. Now it's way too late for that.
Bob, I always appreciate your positive posts!
I take d12 to camp this afternoon. I have plans with various relatives and friends the rest of the week.
You know Sunny (I still have to check myself, I still want to use the old name
) - I always sometimes have the impression when I read your description of your H's actions, that instead of not being civil, he is actively making sure he keeps you at arm's length. You are, after all, in sort of a "trial separation", right?
Hope you have a lovely vacation. A little less humid there than Florida?
instead of not being civil, he is actively making sure he keeps you at arm's length. You are, after all, in sort of a "trial separation", right?
It was supposed to be "trial" for four months but then we mutually agreed to extend it. In my mind, it's no longer "trial". I can't imagine he believes there's any hope for us either, his language has changed, it's now "my" house (not ours) and he references me as "name the kid"'s mom instead of W.
What would be the benefit of keeping me at arms length on purpose? Sincere question. I never bring up the R, or talk about a joint future. And he assumes I'm dating. Why distance me?
instead of not being civil, he is actively making sure he keeps you at arm's length. You are, after all, in sort of a "trial separation", right?
It was supposed to be "trial" for four months but then we mutually agreed to extend it. In my mind, it's no longer "trial". I can't imagine he believes there's any hope for us either, his language has changed, it's now "my" house (not ours) and he references me as "name the kid"'s mom instead of W.
What would be the benefit of keeping me at arms length on purpose? Sincere question. I never bring up the R, or talk about a joint future. And he assumes I'm dating. Why distance me?
He may very well not think there is any chance at reconciliation, but you are still in a separation as opposed to active divorce proceedings, and while it probably seems like forever, its been 6 months?
Hi Sunny,
I hope you have a great vacation - you certainly deserve one.
You brought a smile to my face. I'm happy to hear how much you appreciate my posts.
{{{{Sunny}}}}
Raliced, it does seem like forever. Six months of S plus 7 months before that. It's been over a year since BD. I guess I'm ready to friend zone and move along. And all indications are that he's also ready to move on. The mystery to me is why we can't be friendlier. Maybe the answer is time. I just have to wait.
I'm a little concerned this morning about some things that might be askew financially. We had agreed to keep things the same, but I see signs he might not have honored that.
Hi Sunnyb. I've been reading your thread and while I fully appreciate that you see your H and are there for the interactions , I would point out that you don't know what he's thinking. I'm not trying to offer hope but at the same time your H could be in an internal struggle. I presume he's not a psychotic type of person and has feelings
I've read a lot in here of how people had completrly now read their WAS actuons or words and the WAS had huge internal struggles
Just to revert to my own sitch , my EXW is completely stunned by my apparent detachment I never call , never text and never ask for help with anything. Before she left I would have been a bit co dependant and talked to her 5 or 6'times a day on the phone , looked after her more like a daughter than a wife with acts of service ( I know it was wrong now ) my point is she was treated like a queen when she was here and now she's gone I'm certain she thinks I'm not interested in an R As of a few weeks ago she would have been wrong
I'm just saying it can be cry difficult to KNOW what the WAS is thinking
Have a good day. Rd
Hi RD! You are correct, of course, I don't know what he's thinking. It just seems to me that if he had any thoughts of R, had any confusion whatsoever, he'd be trying to feel things out and I'd notice.
But maybe I wouldn't. He doesn't actually show emotion, and mine was alway met with derision. Lord help me if I ever cried in front of him. And I sincerely had no idea he was unhappy, he never showed it. So perhaps you are right.
But truth is, I'm past the point where I care if he's conflicted or not. I'm with Kelly Clarkson, if you don't know the answer...
Sunny,
Hope you have an awesome vacation! I've always felt that getting away helps me focus better, reframe, and regroup. Sounds like fun.
I also have the XH who used to ask me to do the same thing and I'd get the same response. It did piss me off as well. But there's no point in wondering what he could be thinking - a cheeseless tunnel for sure. In the end, it really wouldn't help you, would it?
Things are much better nowadays. I think time really does heal a lot of hurt.
Like you, my XH was very uncomfortable expressing deep emotions, and that included allowing me to express them. I called it derision then, but now I have the benefit of a lot of processing since. The one thing passive aggressive people are conditioned to do is stuff their emotions. Somewhere in their childhood, they were chastised, mocked or punished for expressing themselves - particularly with emotions that were anything other than happy. My in-laws loved their boys, but *THEY* were conditioned this way too. The only way anyone in their families had any type of emotional discussions was to have a few drinks under their belts.
The day we got a diagnosis on our D18 (at the age of 3), I literally crumpled to the shower floor in grief. I sobbed like I've never sobbed before. Instead of comfort, he chastised me and told me to get over it. I literally hated him for that for a really long time.
I now see that his conditioned lack of response had been so ingrained in him that he couldn't allow himself to head down that road with me or for me. Think about that for awhile. It took me years to forgive him, and it was much easier for me to understand once I had more information on the reasons behind the mask.
BTW, if this makes you feel better (probably not), D18 and I were invited over to a neighbor's house last night for dinner. He and his XW have been my neighbors for 15 years, though they've both moved out and moved back in. He's now in, as the XW of 40 years moved back to Nebraska a few months ago. Anyway, we were talking about our divorces, and I was mortified and surprised that talking about it made me cry. It hit me from out of nowhere, and fortunately, the neighbor decided to return our topic to one with more levity.
On a side note... he's a small business coach, helping self employed folks break through barriers and achieve better results. About halfway through dinner, he asked me if I had ever listened to any TED talks. I said yes, and asked if he had one in mind. He answered, Brene Brown. I had to look him in the eyes and say, "Well, apparently you're more than intuitive, because other than my IC last summer, you're the only one I've met in the real world who recommended her to me. Yes, vulnerability is a huge problem for me."
Weird stuff...
Anyway, enjoy!
Betsey
p.s. I slowly learned his true emotions when I'd connect the dots between his demeanor, facial expressions (extremely telling), what he'd say or not say and then his actions over the next 24-48 hours. When I got brave enough, I'd ask him slowly and gently, and then he'd let me in. Mind you, it wasn't about our marriage. I had to start at the ground floor and work this program where it concerned his parenting/issues relating to the girls and what we needed to do as parents.
Bets, I'm heading out on a road trip with a friend, but wanted to pop in briefly and say I'm so glad you came over to my new thread! And I'm always impressed with how much work you've put into Mr Wonderful after the D. I'm not sure I'm up for that. I'm possibly an instant rewards kind of gal but it seems like if I'm going to put that much effort into someone, I want him to be waking up beside me. Anyway, thanks for the wisdom, it's always appreciated!
Sunny,
We have a child with intellectual disabilities, and we will have to parent and make tough decisions together until we die (or God forbid, she goes first). I knew that making decisions together would be nearly impossible if I couldn't find a way to communicate WITH him. Otherwise, I truly doubt I would have done so.
He's way more compassionate than he used to be. Time has a way of mellowing even the hardest of hearts. I'm proof of that.
Have a wonderful trip!
Betsey
Sunny
H has scrambled eggs for brains. No use worrying, just make egg bread instead.
V
SunnyB | It's me who should thank you for your openness. I'm glad that you shared your own struggle. You ask how is it that I make it look so simple. I don't have an answer, and anyway it's not that simple in real life, but here are a few thoughts that cross my mind about it.
a) I accept that some relationship might be mutually satisfactory and short term. Is this an option that you might consider or is it important that your next partner have the potential for lifelong commitment? How does that influence your assessment of them?
b) I am building confidence that I can meet and attract the woman of my dreams. My biggest hurdle would be to approach her if we ever meet, so that's what I'm working on, on all fronts: IC, reading, practice. What makes you doubt that you would meet such a person? Any internal hurdles for you?
c) How much do we know someone early on? It is possible to enter certain relationships and let them evolve over time. It is possible and common that we realize we're meant for someone after several months or years. Do you feel rushed in making a decision with this man?
d) What kind of person do we seek? On thing that DB especially has taught me is that we can't fix people. But I'm a fixer and I'm attracted to people who have issues because I want to be the Nice Guy that solves them. As I wrote before, WW had immense trust issues and I came as the white night of Loyalty to her. Some of the women I've met in the last few weeks have their own issues and I can feel myself wanting to be the right guy for them. I'm trying to step back and remember that I can't fix them, and that I should rather choose someone with the right balance. How about the shortcomings of your suitor? Are they deal breakers? Are they a problem for you or for your image with others?
e) It might look simple because I'm the beginning and not yet entangled in multiple relationships with women who think I've duped them and who react badly to my lack of commitment.
Joking aside, could it be that you're afraid to hurt others or just yourself?
I'm happy to continue the conversation on this.
Thanks, Mozza. I've been away without access to a keyboard and this was more than I could manage on my phone. But I've been thinking.
a)I'd like to say that I'm OK with a relationship I know would only be short term, but at my age that seems like a waste of time. I know that most relationships aren't going to turn into anything long term, so it seems like intentionally pursuing something I know for sure wouldn't last is frivolous. Perhaps if I was getting some really great sex from it. Seriously.
b) My internal hurdle is being told by my H for years that I wasn't attractive enough, even though I have some pretty good clues from other people that I am. I know I'm smart and I'm well-read but I've been out of the business world for a long time and lack confidence there also.
c) I am definitely not in a hurry to do anything. I'm not even D yet. And I feel strongly that I need to develop some confidence in myself (see "b") before I get tangled up with another strong man.
d) I thought about your questions here quite a bit. The particular guy I was discussing before would definitely not fit in with my friends. He's nice enough, but wouldn't be able to hold his own in a conversation. He doesn't have the education, experiences, or lifestyle to fit in. Everyone would be nice, but that's not enough to truly fit in. I wonder if I were crazy in love with him if I would overlook that, and I wonder if I would regret that down the road?
e) I do not want to disappoint others, for sure. A bad trait to have when there's weeding out to be done.
During my week away, I decided what really annoys me about the guy I mentioned: he did a bit of online snooping about me, and then casually dropped those things into texts/conversations. I don't mind that he did it, it's apparently all publicly available, after all. But it's annoying to me that he thinks he knows things about me when if he had bothered to ask me those questions, he'd have found out a lot more than the answer he has. For instance, if he had asked me about where I grew up, he would have had a location and a description of the town, as well as what I liked about it and why I moved away. Instead, he has the name of a small town he couldn't even find on a map if he looked. What does that mean about him? And what does it mean about me? I don't know the answer to either of those questions.
It seems like I have come up with more questions than answers here, but I appreciate the dialog, Mozza.
Sunny, I think that last thing is one of the perils of dating now that we didn't have when we were last out there. It means he's interested and wants to show you but he's heavy-handed and awkward. But I get what you say about the education, etc.
I've been pondering that a little bit. Would I date a guy in a different place socially than I've become accustomed to? Part of me sees a LOT of appeal in that. I feel like part of what's wrong with STBX is kind of endemic to that ambitious executive sort of guy, and that reaching for that again is just going to get me more of the same. On the other hand, why not reach?
These are all academic wonderings because the fact is I don't want the responsibility of another person right now. I'm not spending nearly enough time with my friends who I KNOW love me and are right for me. And I find a certain reticence in myself with them that I'd like to heal before I jump into something else again.
That said... STBX has a cousin who got divorced very abruptly two years ago when her XH went off the deep end. Nobody ever liked him but he went off the deep end in a really scary way and I think he broke her heart. And now... she's engaged! I wish her all the best. She looks happy (you know, on Facebook), and I'm seeing a side of her there that most people probably thought XH had killed dead and buried.
For myself, I'm trying to remember that if I walk the path where my best self shows, then eventually it will match up to the best self of someone who is a good partner to me. I am interested in the abstract question, who will I end up with, kind of the way I was interested in it when I was twelve, but with far less urgency.
And for pete's sake, if he can make my sex drive come back I'll love him forever. Putting out for STBX after learning about the affair has ruined that part of my life for the moment.
Hi Maybell!
Sunny, I think that last thing is one of the perils of dating now that we didn't have when we were last out there. It means he's interested and wants to show you but he's heavy-handed and awkward.
Awkward is an excellent word. He dishes out compliments right and left (which is nice considering H was extremely stingy with them) but it comes across as insincere since I feel like he doesn't actually know much about me.
Would I date a guy in a different place socially than I've become accustomed to?
At risk of sounding very snobby, I just don't know that I can. I'm willing to take a chance, but I don't know that we would ever have enough in common to last past the initial infatuation. I'm way too old for an "us against the world" mentality.
For myself, I'm trying to remember that if I walk the path where my best self shows, then eventually it will match up to the best self of someone who is a good partner to me.
I like this a lot, MB.
And for pete's sake, if he can make my sex drive come back I'll love him forever.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, the drive part is going strong. It's what to do with it (or rather, what I don't do with it) that's frustrating. And I'm not attracted to Mr. Prospect AT ALL. He's insecure about being shorter than me for starters, story of my life. But it goes beyond that, he just doesn't do it for my physically.
Last week I had lunch with an x bf, someone I've kept in touch with since college. We see each other every time I visit my hometown. This time, after lunch, I knew he was going to kiss me, and I intended to let it happen. At the last minute, I balked, and he was gracious about it. I'm way more attracted to x bf than I am Mr. Prospect. Maybe because he knows me so much better.
In the end, I'm still M, so all this dating stuff is kind of a moot point. I just find it interesting the way it's unfolding, and I intent to take the time to learn about myself. And walk my path.
So...on a completely different note...they started installing my new floors today! They look great. The house is a wreck, all the stuff from one half is sitting all over the other half and everything is dusty, but I'm so happy.
Last week while I was gone, H came over and coordinated the painting of the girls bedrooms, moved some stuff still in his closet, and helped S19 move the piano because that's the one thing the floor people wouldn't touch. It was a huge amount of work. And he even offered to let us stay at his apartment tonight (he's out of town). All in all, he's being a real team player on this.
I'm a little concerned this morning about some things that might be askew financially. We had agreed to keep things the same, but I see signs he might not have honored that.
Just an update on this part: an opportunity presented itself that I was comfortable asking the financial question I had. And I was OK with the answer. Any of you who have followed me knows that financial misdoings would be the only reason for me to immediately pull a D trigger. But apparently that's not necessary. Whew!
Having said that, I'm working on my financial forms, one of my four goals. There are some things I just don't know, but I want to get the things I do know organized over the summer. I have gotten a good start this week.
Good job Sunny. Inertia is so brutal, it can be hard to start moving on some things. But if you can start, it's never as hard as when it's hanging over your head (which can feel IMPOSSIBLE).
I have a number of things like that. Things that STBX used to do that I'm now responsible for and haven't fully integrated into routines. Still have some unpacking to do after the move. Etc. But I've had a few times I knock some things out and it feels grrrrrrreat like Tony the tiger.
I have a few goals too. Maybe we should add them to our signatures for accountability? Hmmm...I'm embarrassed I'll fall short. You go first?
I have a few goals too. Maybe we should add them to our signatures for accountability? Hmmm...I'm embarrassed I'll fall short. You go first?
Challenge accepted, Zues.
Here's the post where I initially spelled out these goals:
I have four things I want to work on
1) Getting my health and fitness back after the last so many months of challenges. I want to get back to some things I enjoy (hello, oly bar) and try out some new things such as SUP paddleboarding and mud runs.
2) Finish some things around the house I never had time for when I was working full time with three kids at home. I'm having new flooring installed in about half the house in June, and I researched and priced and ordered it all myself, no help from H. That's huge for me.
3) It's time for me to explore returning to work.
4) I want to get some paperwork in order in case H decides to file, or if I decide to ask him to. We have mutually agreed not to file until September, but if that's when it's going to happen, I want to be prepared and not overwhelmed while I'm trying to start a new job. If I don't need it, then I'll still have a better picture of our financial situation.
I had been thinking about updating my signature anyway, some of the things I initially thought were important have lost meaning. Exact dates, for instance. As it fades into the background part of my life story, it doesn't matter if it's the 17th or the 18th.
Let's see yours, Zues.
Sunny, great goals! No I'm going to encourage you with nagging questions
1.) What kind of exercise do you enjoy? And when is the soonest you can begin? Today?
2.) What's the first thing you want to accomplish around the house? When will you start? (Flooring is a great accomplishment, btw! Even if you're just hiring someone to do it. I went through the same thing with our house last fall, and getting all of the quotes, learning about the different material options, etc. was definitely a hassle).
3.) Sorry if I missed it somewhere in your time here, but what is your work background? Are you looking at returning to the same type of work, or are you open-ended and/or have a different field in mind?
Hi Sunny,
First, sorry I haven't checked in for a while. I have barely been online for the last week and a half (work is crazy and been GALing a lot!). But I have been thinking about you.
You are doing a good job -- keep it up. I agree with Zues.
I like Card's questions. I'm looking forward to reading your answers.
Please hang in there Sunny! You CAN do this.
{{{Sunny}}}
Bob
Sunny, great goals! No I'm going to encourage you with nagging questions
1.) What kind of exercise do you enjoy? And when is the soonest you can begin? Today?
2.) What's the first thing you want to accomplish around the house? When will you start? (Flooring is a great accomplishment, btw! Even if you're just hiring someone to do it. I went through the same thing with our house last fall, and getting all of the quotes, learning about the different material options, etc. was definitely a hassle).
3.) Sorry if I missed it somewhere in your time here, but what is your work background? Are you looking at returning to the same type of work, or are you open-ended and/or have a different field in mind?
Card, I appreciate the questions. It lets me know you are reading and helps hold me accountable. I think that's a really important part of the goal process.
1. I like to lift weights, not the kind coated in pink plastic, either. I like to sprint occasionally, walk often. I started back in the weight room as soon as I was cleared to a few weeks ago. I using one of the New Rules programs, Cosgrove is my default when I need a reset. It feels great to have my hands back on a bar.
2. My house goal at the moment is to recover from the floor installation. There's some painting and new furniture involved in that, too, so the whole thing could take several more weeks.
Today I've been working on my closet, rearranging things a little. I'm happy with it. And I also cleaned out H's side of the closet, he still has some stuff over there and I'm OK with that but I've rearranged it, too, to compact it and give more empty space. I have made the conscious decision not to expand into any territory that was previously his, closet, sink/vanity, night stand, dresser. I am deliberately leaving space in my life for a partner, whether that's H or someone else. The emptiness is symbolic for me.
3. My education is accounting, I'm actually a CPA. But for the last 10 years I did a lot of non-financial stuff, everything from building management, to space allocation, event planning, membership and volunteer recruitment, office management, advertising, and communications to name a few. I think I'd like something where a financial background is an asset but not necessarily the whole job. I'd like to target some of the larger employers in the city as opposed to a small company.
Hey, Bob! I'm going to have to pop over to your thread to see if you explained your GAL. I hope it was fun!
I have dinner plans with a meet-up group later tonight. I was going to go mountain biking tomorrow but cancelled because I really want to continue reassembling Casa Sunny.
Nice goals, Sunny!
I have some in mind too but I'm going to plan them before I reveal them.
Maybell wuz here.
Hi Sunny,
Sounds like we like to lift the same kind of weights...Elieko? I hope so. Nothing is going to fuel a new personal best in your C&J like your situation huh?
I've gotten back into the weight room myself and have a new respect for it after time away. Hope to hear about your successful lifts.
Give it hell.
PP
Hey, Bob! I'm going to have to pop over to your thread to see if you explained your GAL. I hope it was fun!
I have dinner plans with a meet-up group later tonight. I was going to go mountain biking tomorrow but cancelled because I really want to continue reassembling Casa Sunny.
Hi Sunny,
I saw your post and replied. Your GAL actvities sound good to me. I'm still LOL at "reassembling Casa Sunny." You always seem to have a way with words.
Hang in there! xoxo
Bob
Hi folks, hope everyone had a good weekend. I went out with my meetup group both Friday and Saturday, went to church and breakfast with H and kids on Sunday. Otherwise tried to reassemble my house, but I'm still waiting on some painting to be done. H has been really helpful in this process, taking a lot of time on the project and not saying one word about the amount of $ being spent.
For those of you who are in pain and struggling, I'm here to tell you that life gets better.
Maybell wuz here.
Hey Maybell! Imma gonna pop over to your thread later and see how you are doing.
Sounds like we like to lift the same kind of weights...Elieko?
PP, my gym is stocked with Hampton, but yes, the general idea is to take a 45-lb bar and load it with enough plates to require a power cage.
I don't use weight machines with the exception of a cable station. Although I've been back in the weight room a few weeks, I was out for months, and it's going to take me a while to get back to where I was. Still, you gotta start somewhere, right?
You, too, Bob! I always appreciate your stopping by.
Hi Sunny. Sorry it took me so long to post. Your sounding really positive and upbeat. Exercise is the way to go and your employment plans sound great.
Your dealing with the seperation with grace and moved on from the expectations of H. you are an example to us all
Take care. Rd xxxx.
PS. Thanks for posting on my thread. I really appreciate your thoughts
Sunny, really pleased to read that you are doing so well, and that your H has been helping too. Glad that you are in such a positive place and moving forward.
Best of luck to you!
Take care, T x
Thank you RD and Toots. I've said this before, but it seems like H is going to make a good X. At the moment, we seem to be operating in a comfortable place, taking care of kids and house together. It won't last forever. But it's nice to have that for however long it lasts.
I have been pondering the abuse thread. Let me be clear, I would not ever classify my situation as abuse. Still, there are elements that existed in my M, things that make me uncomfortable to read. It's been so eye opening to realize that not all M are like that. Had my H not walked, I'd be married still. And I'd have never realized that someone could treat me nicely.
I also ponder the idea that I read here fairly frequently, that H was in pain and didn't have the tools to deal with it effectively, choosing an affair over actually talking to me. I am much more willing to accept that idea now that I was previously. I don't know if it's true, but it does allow me to forgive more easily.
All in all, I am starting to feel like I've been set free.
Sunny,
I love your transformation to a peaceful, joyful person. It's so awesome, and it makes me really happy for you. I personally believe that this path doesn't have to be in vain, and we can find some really great things if we do the work through the pain.
That being said, I applaud your conclusion about your H. I believe it's true. How? I truly doubt that any of us here walked down the aisle with someone who did not intend to go the distance with us. I really do. Unfortunately, we all carry baggage that sometimes, left untreated or ignored, causes pain to the point we revert to the fight/flight response. Sometimes both.
My aunt (who is 5.5 years older than I am) has been married since she turned 18. She tells me that they are still married because neither one of them wanted a divorce at the same time. That makes me laugh. But the reality of their situation is that they lost their middle son to an unknown heart defect at the age of 20 (he was playing 2nd base and collapsed). It brought all of them closer and I love them both for how they dealt (and deal) with their grief. In the beginning, it looked like it might blow their whole family up, but they persevered.
Anyway, I think you're an awesome person. Too bad Denver and Miami aren't closer.
Hugs,
Betsey
Hi Betsey! Both Miami and Denver have large airports with flights between every day! I say come on down! It would be so fun to actually meet you.
Thanks for your kind words. I have known since the beginning that I didn't intend to turn into an angry bitter person over this. Yes, I had some things to work through, but as time goes on my M becomes part of my back story but not part of my future. And I can choose to have a happy, peaceful future.
The one thing that still pains me is to see couples that have been married 50+ years who still show love an affection openly towards one another. I know they've been through times as tough as these, but they were both committed to make it work. And that's the only difference in their M and mine. And sometimes that just breaks my heart. It probably always will.
I am friends with a couple who have been through some tough times - unexpected death of their 16 year old daughter, cancer, job loss, losing their home for finances. And yet, they are still together and seemingly so happy and loving towards one another. I admire them a great deal.
And yet, I know that my story is not either one of these. My story is to say "this happened to me" and I learned these things from it. I am truly grateful that my eyes have been opened to so many things, that I'm no longer living in the very small box that I was. A box I chose to stay in, but limiting nonetheless. I am free to be me, I am free to choose a better R, I am free to live a happy peaceful life. I'm grateful for all that.
Gan wrote on her thread that newcomers don't like to hear that they will be OK. I didn't. But I am.
It's been a while since I posted, life goes on. I have been busy with getting the house painted and reassembled after the new floors. My GAL has seen me hike; go on a scavenger hunt; go to coffees, lunches, dinners, and happy hours with friends; attend yoga class; attend a cooking class; and tour a winery. Yesterday I spend the day at the beach with some friends. Tonight I'm attending a concert, tomorrow I might go SUP. I'm spending quality time at the gym, and I've applied for a few jobs.
H and I continue to get along well. On Father's Day I made a nice dinner for H and the kids, bought him a nice present on their behalf. We came to an agreement on our vacation plans (previously a source of much grief to me), and I"m happy with it. I'll be there three weeks total, H will be there one of those weeks. Sleeping arrangements have yet to be determined, but my intention is to claim the bedroom I've always used and let him sleep with the mosquitos if that's his choice.
I don't post much anymore, but wish all of you peace and detachment.
Great to hear from you Sunny. Your ali ding positive and the holiday thing sounds great too.
Keep in touch. Take care. Rd
Good to hear from you and just so happy you're doing so well. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. I'm glad you're keeping busy and having some fun. You are an inspiration.
Sunny, I was so pleased to read your update. I agree you are an inspiration on these boards. I think it is so great that you manage to combine a rich and rewarding new life of your own with a constructive R with your H. I truly applaud you!
I'm glad that you have your holiday plans confirmed. I recall you posting earlier about them and know you were upset at the time. I hope you have a great time, and that you just carry on living a good life, as you are...
ps: looks like your thread may be about to lock
Glad to see you are getting along well, Sunny.
Edit - please start a new thread.
Thanks for the update, Sunny. Sounds like you are going well!