Two weeks since the W dropped the bomb. 6 months separated against my wishes. Starting DBing two weeks ago. I'm doing my 180s and have been 100% consistent in front of her at all times. Here are the small changes I have noticed in my Ws behaviors that are small indicators of success:
1. She has not spoken about our R or moving forward with D at all. She is taking no action.
2. She is communicating with me on a daily basis: Most of the communication is about our kids but she has also had a couple instances where she has told me about nights out with friends and such.
3. She spent 30 minutes in the yard talking with me while we played with our daughter waiting for my son's school bus before she went out bowling yesterday. She goes every Wednesday and I spend the evening at my house with the kids. She has always left within 5 minutes of my arrival these last 6 months and hardly spoke with me at all.
4. Tonight I spent 2 hours at my house. Played with the kids for an hour and then helped with bath and getting them to bed. Here is the HUGE change. My wife did not leave the house while I was there. This is literally the first time in 6 months that she has not left our house when I came over.
I think I'm seeing progress. I'm working hard on focusing on myself and making the changes that I need to make in order to save my marriage. It takes one to tango has really resonated with me. I know I have a long road to travel but I have to admit that I am surprised by what I have seen from her so far.
I honestly think she is saying to herself "what the heck is doing?" But she's not stopping me
First thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2561056#Post2561056
Congrats!!!
Remember not to pursue at this point...
Congrats!!!
Remember not to pursue at this point...
Thanks Win
Not pursuing is one of my 180s that I am sticking to 100%
I am being very kind and courteous toward her and showing her a happy and confident me. She knows I love her and knows that I want to work things out, there is no reason for me to say it anymore because words only push her away.
Since she gave the reason for being finished was that during my stint of depression and anxiety she felt I abandoned her and the kids my 180s are showing her through actions that I am being myself again. I'm acting as I did in our R before the depression. Really focusing on the kids, speaking to them every day, spending as much time as my work schedule allows with them and actually doing things with them when I am with them. The days I'm at my house with them and she is not I've been helping her out without asking her or seeking credit for it: I'll vacuum, sweep, clean, dishes, mow the lawn. These are all things that I was always proactive in before my depression. So I am showing her through my actions that I am genuinely changing back to the real me: The loving and attentive husband and father she once new.
So far, it seems to be working so, I am going to stay the course with what I'm doing.
She probably thinks I'm crazy right now
but like I said: She isn't saying a thing to tell me to stop trying and I'm seeing movement.
I'm "killing her with kindness" and with positive attitude and action.
"Be the change you wish to see" and hopefully she will eventually follow the lead.
My next short term indicator of success that I'm looking for is that she'll want to start doing things together as a family. The fact that she didn't leave the house for the two hours I was there yesterday is a good sign that I might be able to accomplish that next step over the next month or so.
It felt great yesterday while I was there because it was the first time she actually witnessed how different I was with the kids: Running around and wrestling and playing with them in the front yard for an hour with my full attention focused on them. I didn't even ask her if I could stay and help with bath and bed. I just did it. I set the tone. And when the kids were in bed I went downstairs and initiated a short conversation with her about a doctor's appointment my son had had yesterday morning. We spoke about that in a cordial and pleasant manner. When it was over I set the tone and said "OK. Well, have a nice night and I'll call the kids tomorrow. Goodnight." And I left.
It felt nice to sort of be in control of the situation. Just doing and acting without seeking her approval.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that the changes I listed are signs that she is experiencing doubts about wanting to split.
It sounds like you woke up. I am glad to hear that. Now, I wish my H would do the same. For the past year my husband would stay in bed the entire weekend and just ignore me and our daughter. I would try and talk to him and pleaded to go get help for his depression but he never did. And now we are separated because I couldn't take it anymore. It's been three months and he is still asleep.
So, I am glad that you can see what you were doing and how it was effecting your family and now you are doing something about it. I just hope these changes that you are making will stick. When my H and I separated before, I had seen some changes in him so I let him move back in and they only lasted a month if that.
Good luck.
It sounds like you woke up. I am glad to hear that. Now, I wish my H would do the same. For the past year my husband would stay in bed the entire weekend and just ignore me and our daughter. I would try and talk to him and pleaded to go get help for his depression but he never did. And now we are separated because I couldn't take it anymore. It's been three months and he is still asleep.
So, I am glad that you can see what you were doing and how it was effecting your family and now you are doing something about it. I just hope these changes that you are making will stick. When my H and I separated before, I had seen some changes in him so I let him move back in and they only lasted a month if that.
Good luck.
Hopeful. Trust me that my wake up is for real. The changes I am showing her are genuine. It took me realizing that I am going to lose her I truly wake up.
Unfortunately for me, her reaction to it was: it's too little too late. I'm done. I've moved on. Two weeks ago is when she told me that she doesn't want to hurt me but can't stay married to me.
But, you can see what actions I have been taking and what little signs I am seeing from her.
I'd really like to know from your point of view, do you believe she may actually be hoping that the changes she sees are real? Do you think she is not taking action and letting me do what I'm doing and not telling me to stop because she may have said it's over but is actually giving me an opportunity to prove my changes are real and an opportunity to win her back.
That's the hardest part of this for me. Not having any insight into what is going through her mind.
I can relate to her reaction. See, I was once a walk out wife with my first husband. He wouldn't change at all. So, I divorced him. But the difference between you and my first husband, I can see that you are working on yourself where he didn't until it was too late.
Now my second husband won't change either. I told him the same thing, wake up before it's too late. I have filed the D papers and he is aware of this but I still have not seen any effort from him. So he may wake it but it could be too late.
Right now she does not trust your behavior and doesn't know your behavior is for real. She may be giving you the opportunity to prove yourself to her. I am still giving my husband the opportunity but he is not taking it.
I think if she really wanted the divorce, she would have filed already. Keep doing what you are doing and time will tell.
And Hopeful. If I can ever be of any assistance to you in helping you understand what your H is going through please ask me anything at anytime.
Depression is a real disorder that cannot be controlled but can be managed through medication and therapy.
Please understand that your H is not hurting you and your children intentionally. He isn't choosing to be withdrawn. He cannot control it. But if he gets help, over time and perhaps with the realization that he is going to lose everything in life that is most important to all of us (our spouses and our children) he may wake up for real.
I had some false wake ups over the course of the last couple years as well while I was going through treatment.
The reason I know that this wake up is for real is because during the others, I still blamed my W for not being there for me durnin my time of need. But I failed to empathize with her perspective. That she truly did feel abandoned and she fell out if love with me because I had become someone completely different than my real self.
I hope it isn't too late for me. And I hope that your H does come around and that it won't be too late for him to do right by you and your children.
Best of luck to you. Please pick my brain on any answers you need from the Depressed Husbands perspective
Thanks hopeful. I really appreciate the insight. I am working with a coach who has said the same thing. It said that typically when a spouse drops the bomb and says they are done but then takes no action it means that they are really unsure as to whether or not they are truly done.
He says that the key in this situation is stay the course because she needs to see consistent change over a long enough period of time in order to believe that the changes are genuine, real and permanent.
I truly am out of my depression. Trust me, I know the difference. I have so much clarity but my sudden clarity and my "epiphany" doesn't mean that she is just going to jump back into my arms. She doesn't love me anymore. But I keep telling myself she doesn't love the depressed and unavailable me. But the real me. She likes that guy a whole lot and loves him very much.
So my 180s were obvious to me: Get your head out of your butt and start acting like the person she loves. And do so without asking her if she is noticing, without asking her if her mind is changing, without asking her if there is a chance. No pressuring her or pursuing any R talk.
Just act and let her process it all on her own timeline and in her own way.
As a side note, I do have a slight concern there may be something going on between a friend of hers and her. But, this was something that, before my awakening, I asked her about three times and every time she said that there was nothing going on beyond a friendship. My coach, despite some shady things I have seen (he is blocking me from seeing his friendship with her on Face Book) still believes that she is being honest and it is only a friendship.
However, I realize that although I am having anxiety about this that my actions do not have to reflect my feelings. These last two weeks I have not mentioned this to her at all and am acting "as if" I have no suspicion.
Regardless of what may be occurring (and maybe it is only a friendship and I'm blocked because she just got tired of me asking about it and having to repeat herself that he's only a friend) I need to stay focused on being 100% consistent in my actions.
I'm seeing some movement and I will not do anything to derail that.
I hope you are right in your assessment. I hope that she really is unsure and is giving me a chance to win her back and to see my changes are real and permanent. I would say that her actions are telling me that is what is happening. I also realize that it is going to take time for her to trust me.
My overall goal (and I know it may take longer) is to be reconciling in time to celebrate our wedding anniversary: Which is at the end of September. Fingers crossed
Good luck and keep being positive.
Sunday night I told my husband to get his head out of his butt before it's too late. I am praying that he will but the truth is I don't think he will in time.
It's nothing wrong with being friends at first. Build the foundation and keep watering your foundation and you will see the flowers will start to grow in time.
I have my MSA but I am unsure if I truly want the divorce, so I am giving him time and he is not taking advantage of it. It's sad.
Keep up the good work. I can't wait to keep reading how you progressing.
Hopeful: Two questions.
1. What does MSA stand for.
2. Do you think I should be worried about her and her friend?
Do you think it is simply a friendship and just doesn't want
me asking about it anymore / hence the block?
I'd really like to know from your point of view, do you believe she may actually be hoping that the changes she sees are real? Do you think she is not taking action and letting me do what I'm doing and not telling me to stop because she may have said it's over but is actually giving me an opportunity to prove my changes are real and an opportunity to win her back.
That's the hardest part of this for me. Not having any insight into what is going through her mind.
Been reading your sitch .... 25 posted this on my very first thread when I first joined, kept me in check pretty much ... like you I made a ton of changes but this post has really helped me stay grounded:
FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET, AND HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….
"When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.
One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.
Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.
When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.
Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.
And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.
Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.
And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to WIN.
Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to "win".
Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell."
MSA stands for Marital Settlement Agreement.
I'm not sure about the friend thing. My H had an EA and PA with two different co-workers. I am not a good one to ask that question. I'm sorry
Thanks Hope
Hopeful: Two questions.
1. What does MSA stand for.
2. Do you think I should be worried about her and her friend?
Do you think it is simply a friendship and just doesn't want
me asking about it anymore / hence the block?
#1 she Answered
#2 ... Here is the thing, what can you control here? She very well might have dude in the friend-zone. Maybe its leaning towards a A, maybe not. The A .. yeah nothing stings more, believe me.... been there, done that, have the shirt. Regardless you are not in a spot to tell her what she can and can not do, she has in a sense fired you as her H at this point ... telling her who she can talk to will only make the canyon wider.
My advice .. keep doing what you are doing, become the better choice, the best choice, keep up with the changes, the 180's, PMA and the GAL, this will flip the table and instead of you wondering what she is doing and thinking, she hopefully will wonder what you are doing and thinking .. this takes time, like that WAW post I posted, she does not trust the changes are legit ... with good reason, you have to stay the course and avoid any landmines ... FB friends in this case.
I do think FB is nothing but evil .... makes things to easy for OP to contact a WAS when they are on the fence ... but again .. out of our control, if we had put this effort and energy in earlier .. who knows if we would have landed here right>?
Thanks Cali.
I will (and am) follow your advice. Stay the course!!!!
Oh yeah....one more positive I didn't mention on my list.
With Mother's Day on Sunday I decided I was going to do something for her but without it involving her spending time with me (which I know she isn't open to).
So I bought her a 1 hour massage and spa treatment. Now, I wanted to make sure that she wouldn't make plans for that timeframe that I booked for her but also didn't want to tell her what it was.
So, I told her this week that I would be taking off on Sunday. That I would be over to our house at 9am and would spend the entire day with the kids so she could go out and relax and enjoy Mother's Day all to herself.
I asked her simply to not make any specific plans between 10am-11am because I had gotten her something. I made it clear that I would not be asking her to spend any of that day with me.
I expected her to tell me not thanks and that she didn't want anything from me.
But she didn't. She has said ok. So, I'm going to get her some flowers, a Mother's Day Card and go to my house at 9 on Sunday morning and give her the gift certificate for the day spa appointment. Tell her to enjoy her day and leave it at that.
Again, this was another opportunity for her to tell me "no" or "stop trying". But she didn't.
So that was another small win that will be happening Sunday that I forgot to mention
This also is part of my 180s: The real me always showed her that she was first and foremost to me. So I'm showing that again but doing it in a manner that is non-pursuing and non-pressuring. She knows I love her. She knows I want to stay married and be with her. There is no reason to say it. So I've just been showing it
Guys I feel like I'm going to crack and ask her about why I'm being blocked on Facebook. If it's just a friendship why would they do that?
Guys I feel like I'm going to crack and ask her about why I'm being blocked on Facebook. If it's just a friendship why would they do that?
You really need to ask?
I think you already know the answer.
You do not ask her why she blocked you on Facebook. Leave it alone. She looks to you as the enemy and if you question her about it, it lets her know that you still care, etc.
Friends? Friendship to the crisis individual is not the same as being friends w/someone who is a true friend. Take a look at what she's done thus far...would you treat a friend the way she has you? I don't think so. Right now, she's not your friend and you need to treat her as just an acquaintance and nothing more. She's not the person you feel in love with right now.
BEClem
^^^ X3 (Job snuck in there)
Like I said .. do not go there ... heck .. I am not so sure about the MothersDay stuff either ... that is all from you and not the kids ... in line with the Birthday gift stuff that people (myself included) always struggle with.
Here is the deal ... the FB, not your circus not your monkeys ... let that go, seriously ... you can not do anything about it ... consider that a small campfire, you are walking around with a bucket of gasoline and trust me, this will burn off your eyebrows vs putting out the fire... no good can come of this. You are in NO POSITION at the moment to demand/question such things ... there is a time and place for that ... here and now is not that time and place, please trust we are trying to help you here ... think hard about it.
Also ... if it were me, I would not do all that for Mothers Day ... Last year my W was further out than yours was, I helped S get her a small gift and that was that. I was a chronic pursuer, would buy a $500 gift for her and in exchange get a bag of socks .. this was Pre BD.
At what point has your W had to face life without you?
Think about ^^^ ... you can not spoon feed or nice her back on one front and then go Alpha Male on the FB on another front ... you need to become detached and consistent ... get where I am going here?
I don't think you should do all that for Mother's Day. It's too much right now. I would do a small gift and maybe get the kids make a card for her.
Just my thoughts.
Sunday is my W's birthday and Mother's Day, but I decided I'm not going to do anything for her. She hasn't given any indication that she wants something for me, so I'm leaving it alone. D5 wants to get her flowers, so I'll take them on Saturday, but that's it.
Really think about what getting her something says and whether it brings you closer to your goal.
Tone down the gifts! A card and the spa date are enough and those things can be from you and the children. No flowers. You don't want to over do the "knight" on the white horse stuff.
Keep things simple and don't have expectations as to what you think she do or not do in the way of reactions.
It's dropped guys. No more talk or focus on it. I'll continue my 180s and posting on progress.
Thanks everyone
Thanks for the advice everyone. It is much appreciated and I am listening.
Hi BeClem.
As you work through DB, and you've done an amazing job of 180, it will take a "boatload" of work and there will be ups and downs of course.
What 180 things are you considering or doing to address your general anxiety?
Anxiety is tough for me because I have PTSD and a Panic Disorder. I do take meds to manage it.
I started working out a lot and have found that the physical activity not only relieves stress but I am almost in as good of shape as I was when I was 25 and in the Marine Corps.
Which makes me feel good about myself.
I also try and have positive thoughts. I am seeing some good results from my 180s and it has only been a little over 2 weeks.
So I am mentally focusing on taking stock in the movements. Focusing on patience and knowing that I can do this and be successful.
I also am beginning to realize that my wife has a ton of anger and resentment toward me. Some justified. Some not. But either way it is there.
So I need to keep focusing on being the best version of me I can be and just allow her to work through this in her own way and at her own pace.
I am convinced that even though she says she is done that she is doubtful, angry and confused. She would have pulled the trigger already if she were 100% certain. So I'm just staying the course and monitoring results.
What I'm doing right now seems to be moving things slowly in the right direction.
Understand that she is going to demonize you to the fullest. There is so much bent truth and made up exaggerations to hurt you and justify yourself.
Be careful. Validate what she is saying but don't get snowed under.
Thank Ten. "Bent truth" is an understatement. I agree and take ownership when there is truth and say things like "I can understand why you feel that way" when it's bent truth.
The one thing I am successfully avoiding is confrontation. I keep a smile on my face at all times and am agreeable.
The "script" is amazingly accurate. The thing that is the most astounding action by the WAW is their complete denial of their role, their justification of the treating the LBS like a stranger and a piece of garbage and the projection of all blame off of themselves.
But like I said, I am avoiding conflict successfully 100%. Since reading DR and the more time I spend on here and with my coach I am starting to understand the psychology of it all. It is twisted and illogical but it is within this unreality that the LBS must navigate in order to come out on the other end a success story.
Well. Just when I thought things were improving they have hit rock bottom.
You all know my backstory. Good marriage from 2001-2009. Depression for me from 2009-recent. Failed marriage counseling 2014. Wife did not have sex with me for 2.5 years leading up to me having a very short EA (slightly physical but no sex) in 2014.
W made it very clear this morning that she believes this is all my fault. That she was a good wife. That I don't deserve her or the kids. That I am lucky she allows me to see them. That she's not the one who cheated. That I have no idea what I put her through the last 6 years raising the children on her own. She said [censored] her giving me empathy. As far as she is concerned I could jump off a bridge.
But, ended the conversation with saying she will think possibly giving me a second chance and allow me time to continue to show her action.
I know that she has set aside money for a lawyer. She is hiding paperwork under the mattress of the bed at our house.
What does all of this mean? Is there any chance of success? Is this all my fault or is this simply her current reality?
I wouldn't wish what I am going through on anyone.
I'm looking for some insight from some of the veterans. Some of you who have been successful.
Is there any way in the world that I can be successful. She says she is going to give me time and she will think about it.
If anyone does believe I can be successful, what the heck do I do now?
If anyone does believe I can be successful, what the heck do I do now?
Yes I believe!
My question is do you?
Cause you are the only one that has any CONTROL over YOU.
Are you looking for a magic button?
If so you will fail.
Have you read DR/DB?
Do you have any solution based goals?
What are you doing to make yourself better?
Cadet. I've read DR. Thought I was making progress and then yesterday happened.
I know there isn't a magic button.
I want to believe but feel lost. Her decision seems so set in stone. I'm seeking guidance. Where do I begin/restart?
I want to believe but feel lost.
Her decision seems so set in stone.
I'm seeking guidance.
Where do I begin/restart?
Yes she believes her decision is set in stone.
You must believe that is her real belief(at least for now)
So how do you LET GO?
How do you detach and let her have the decision that she feels she has already made?
You have NO CONTROL over her decision,
only over YOURS.
Your decision should not be communicated to her, IMHO.
Is this making any sense?
Yes sort of. Can you go into more detail for me?
X2^
That was one of the HARDEST things for me .. you have no control over her ... NONE. Once you figure that out then you can focus on how you react to things, how to improve yourself regardless of what she is doing. This seems to be a pivotal part of the DBing honestly is when the LBS truly starts finding themselves and can remain there regardless of what the WAS tosses their way
So ... what are your GAL's?
I don't understand how letting go gets her back.
What do you do now? You detach, let go and continue to keep the focus on yourself. You work on YOU. You only have control over your thoughts, beliefs and actions. There's nothing you can do at this point in time to change her mind and that's why it's important that you continue on w/your life. Words mean nothing, but actions do.
Rock bottom? No, I don't think so. Neither of you have scraped the bottom of the barrel just yet. You've got to get up, straighten your back and push through the pain. You've got to be strong and have faith that things will work out. This is not a sprint...but a marathon. BTW, the more you talk to her about the relationship, the more she's going to push back and yes, she told you some things that YOU wanted to hear. My advice, stop talking to her about the relationship and get working on yourself.
Do you have hobbies? If so, get back to them. What things have you allow to go by the wayside since you've been married? Time to take those projects up again. Get out there and meet new people. Coffee shops and libraries are a good start, as well as book clubs. Check the paper out to see what is being offered in your area that is free. It's time to put that focus back on you.
Each and every person is successful here whether they get their spouses back or not.
If her reasons to want to split are that I wasn't there for her and the kids through depression than my 180s have to be the opposite of that.
So how do I detach yet still do 180s to show that they are my priority? I can't just disappear: that's why she wants the divorce. Because she felt abandoned.
For example: my hobby is golf. Passion is music (used to be a musician). But those two things she has pointed to as me having been selfish and putting them before her and the kids.
My choice is I want my family back. I want to be the man I was before my depression. I want to be the absolute best version of me. To be a phenomenal father for my two amazing children. Be confident again. Believe in myself again. I want her to know that I love her and that she is my number one priority but how do I show all of these things but detach?
Ultimately I want her to see and remember the real me. All she remembers is the me of the last few years.
So what was the "real you" like 5 years ago? What kind of things did THAT guy do? What kinds of things did she like about THAT guy?
She was my priority. I put her feelings ahead of my own. I was always helpful around the house. I was caring and attentive.
Willing to do things for her that I didn't necessarily agree with.
I was funny. Loving. Basically the opposite of what I became.
When my my H walked out on me about four years ago, he said he was finished, it was over, that he was threw. It was set in stone. He showed no emotions towards me what so ever. I pleaded, begged and cried and the more that I did that, the further away he went. The more I talked about the relationship to him, the further away he went. Then finally, one day I was looking into his eyes and saw the coldness that he had for me, I said to myself it was time to detach. So I did. I did not respond back to his text messages immediately, unless they were important, like our D, he would leave a voice message and I took my time responding back. If I answered the phone, I made sure I ended the conversation. I kept the conversation short and to the point. And if I had to go to his place or he came to mine, I made sure I was dressed hot so he would notice and he did. After about a month, he noticed a change in me and liked it. And he was wondering what I was up too. If I was out by myself and he called, I made sure I answered my phone so he could hear the background noise. I did this several times. He saw how much stronger that I was becoming without him and I was drawing him back in.
However, I let him move back in after 7 months being separated without demanding that he seek help. His change only last a month if that. And now we are right back in the same place with the exception he is not having an affair, to my knowledge. This time he will have to seek therapy and some other demands that I have. He moved out this time by my request.
The point I am trying to make here, there's always hope. Believe in that. I still do.
If her reasons to want to split are that I wasn't there for her and the kids through depression than my 180s have to be the opposite of that.
So how do I detach yet still do 180s to show that they are my priority? I can't just disappear: that's why she wants the divorce. Because she felt abandoned.
I think in your case you can tell her that you understand that she wants a divorce however you are not giving up your kids and you are going to do everything possible to be the BEST DAD you can possibly be.
And PROVE it by actions not words.
You are sorry that you were not there for her and your kids however you do not want to let that continue into the future.
If she wants a divorce then that is fine however that will not stop your determination at being a great DAD.
OK?
Thanks Cadet. That makes sense.
Is there anyone that thinks she is actually going to really take some time to think and observe before making her final decision as she told me she would?
I'm going to be very, very frank w/you. There is no way for any of us to tell you that she's going to take the time to really think about what her final decision is going to be. She could easily go either way, but I'm leaning more towards her going for a divorce at this time. Now, my opinion could very well change as she progresses through her crisis, but for now...I say let her go.
If she raises the "divorce" issue again I think what Cadet advised you to say is excellent. You can't stop her from divorcing you, but you darn sure can be a supportive and great father to your children.
BEClem, there's always hope, but w/MLC, you have to prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Go back, think about the man you once were and that's the man you need find again. Dig deep for more patience because you are very early in the crisis and it's going to take a very long time for her to work thru it, if ever.
As for her comments about you not being there, well, they do like to rehash old stuff that bugged them at one time. It's time to put that record away and let's focus on the here and now. Actions, and I do mean, actions, speak louder than words.
It's time to take care of YOU and what you need to do to find your balance and be there for your children.
There's always hope and we can only hope that her heart and soul will soften and think about things...but you need to continue moving forward as if she may never return to you right now.
I think the problem is that you are thinking of this as a "final decision". There is no final decision. She wants a D right now. She may file. You may get divorced. But that still doesn't mean it's OVER. The point of this is not to get your W to stay - it's to make yourself into the person you want to be who is capable of having a successful marriage. Then, if it's with your current W, great. If not, you will still be a better person for the work you have put in.
Ok. Job beat me to it and probably said it much more eloquently than I did.
Having a really bad couple of days everyone. Very emotional.
W is not seeing it. Kids aren't seeing it.
I feel hopeless.
Hang in there BECLem
We have all been exactly where you are and felt what you are feeling now. I am so sorry that you are in pain. I wish that you and your kids did not have to experience this.
However, each day that goes by you will get stronger and more in control. Are you seeing a therapist or counselor? I did and it did me a world of good. It may be a good idea for you - could you consider it?
Also - remember that your kids NEED YOU, they need you to be the strong one and the one to make rational decisions. You can be that man. I know you can.
Hang in there, chin up my friend. Be patient and carry on. You can do this!
Hi B,
What's going that's causing today to be a "bad day"? Why are you very emotional?
Thanks everyone. Yes I am working with a counselor. Also made an appointment with my nurse practitioner for today to see about upping my anxiety meds.
I think the realization if what is happening is starting to set in. My W has said that she will think about reconsidering and giving me a second chance. But I'm not holding out hope for that.
I'm just so devastated. I never wanted to leave our house. I don't want a divorce. I know that things don't have to be this way. My kids keep asking when I'm coming home. It was only supposed to be three months. Been 6. And if you look back a bit in this thread you can see what I found my W hiding from me and what she said to me yesterday.
I spoke with her today and I want it to be the last time I say anything about us and just wait for her decision.
I simply apologized for the pain I caused her and for not being there for her and the kids. But that isn't the way it is now and will not be that way going forward. And I thanked her for taking time to think about reconsidering and expressed appreciation for that.
I was depressed guys. Panic disorder. PTSD
I never intentionally meant to be unavailable or hurtful.
I'm sending you even more strength BE.
It's just an awful situation to be in and we're all in it together. Keep doing the things that give you strength, that help you feel empowered, and give you some peace, even if they only give you a second of each. It's a moment by moment game.
There are a lot of people on here that can chime in with better advice than I can, just know I empathize with you and hope that you take a few deep breaths and know that on some level, this too shall pass.
Guys is there any way I can stop this divorce from happening?
I need help from the vets: Goals? 180s? How to detach? I feel hopeless like there is no way I can do this.
"Guys is there any way I can stop this divorce from happening?"
No. Sorry but that's the brutal, honest answer. If your W wants to D you, then there's nothing you can do. With that being said, you CAN do things that might persuade her otherwise.
You've been at this for a few months. For my W and I, it took over 3 years before she even THOUGHT about even being nice to me. How much can YOU take?
"I need help from the vets: Goals? 180s? How to detach? I feel hopeless like there is no way I can do this."
Everyone's told you what to do. Goals, 180s, detachment. All you want to do is talk. But you don't do anything about it. That's the problem. People telling you to set goals, do a 180, GAL, etc. but you not implementing them.
And I understand your anxiety disorder. I really do. But NO ONE can help you until you start helping yourself.
I'm not sure I can tell you what you want to hear. The divorce decision isn't in your hands; you cannot control it. Your W will ultimately do what she is going to do.
But you know what I realized after I started actually listening to the people on this site? My life isn't over just because my M is. My W will do whatever she is going to do, but by the time the divorce is final, I intend to be a man and a father that I can be proud of. And while it may be too late for my W to see that, it may not be - that's a long time from now. All I know is that I will not let this be the end of me and I will be strong enough to recover I am only 32; if this ends poorly (which it may) it WILL NOT DEFINE ME.
Trust me, I was just where you are. But by going out and taking advantage of this time, I've learned that while I WANT my W and M...I don't NEED them anymore.
i don't know how helpful that all is, but I truly believe the key is letting go of the things you can't control. They will either happen or they won't. You need to prepare yourself to come out OK no matter what does happen. And to do that, you need to actually detach - find some friends to do anything, join a group, attend some meet ups, ANYTHING. Dostract your mind so you don't just spend your life focusing on the pain I'm sure you're feeling.
BE
yup .. just as its been pointed out .. we have no control over what they do. Does that mean there is no hope? No ... you can start rebuilding yourself, realize that YOU did not set this ball in motion but you are strong enough to not be crushed by it ... does it hurt and sting .. absolutely ... however there is a lesson in all this and there is some amazing growth IF you allow yourself to get out of the bed and start living, take control of YOUR life and what you CAN do.
I have been at the divorce table twice, once in Mar14, again in Mar15 ... first one like you .. deep inside I was crying begging and pleading thought I refused to let her see it ... second time, a year later I accepted it for what it was, even told the lawyer when she asked me ... that I felt W needed to do this to move on, not so much because of me, our family or anything that could not be fixed. Lawyer was actually shocked ... a month later W told me it was not what she wanted and she is still sorting things out ... I am still working on me.
Become the man you were meant to be, not to win your W back, but because you have not reached your potential, do this for you.
Breathe! No, there is nothing you can do to stop the divorce if she files. You may attempt to slow it down, but it will cost you a lot of money to do so and will anger her even more so.
Breathe! Have you spoken to a lawyer to see what your options are? If not, you may want to consult w/one just so you know what to expect...but otherwise, there's nothing more you can do in the way of stopping a divorce if she files. I'm sorry that she's on a roll...but now you need to really, really focus on you, your health and your children.
Much calmer today everyone. Seeing a lawyer for a consult tomorrow.
Trying to pull myself together. Focus on my kids and myself. Get healthy. Get happy.
I still would like to see things work out. But I realize that I have to focus on me and my kids and emotionally detach myself from her so I can be strong for either outcome.
Current sitch:
I have calmed down significantly. W and I have had a few discussions and established a few things:
1. She is thinking of filing but has not
2. She is being completely honest that she is going to think about giving us a chance
3. She is going to think about actually starting to spend some time with me while she thinks.
4. She has established a friendship with someone she grew up with. She made it clear that nothing has happened and she wouldn't do anything while still married to me. But she did say that she could see a possibility if her and I don't work out. So now we know that I have an added wrench to deal with. She obviously sees this guy as the better option right now.
We established some boundaries as far as us possibly spending some time together. If I ask her to do something and she says no. She is ok with me asking again the following week.
I'm hoping she will agree to start spending time with me so she could see that I am not the person she currently perceives me to be.
I'm focusing on trying to detach myself emotionally. Get healthy. Focus on kids. Get a life.
Going to continue my 180s which are all action oriented. No more words.
Even took some control today after our conversation. I texted her my work schedule for the next week. Identified when I want to come over each day to spend time with the kids. Told her I wanted to communicate it with her in writing so her and I could have some space. Even told her that quite frankly, I needed some space from her.
Told her that I am not asking her to bail everytime I come over to the house and am not looking for her to bail when I ask her if she would like to do something together next week. But I also told her that that is her decision and left it at that.
I am already preparing myself for her to say no to going out with me next week. Planning on bowling. If she does say no, I'm going to counter it with an ok, and then tell her that I am going to go anyway and just invite some friends instead. And then, I'm going to go bowling with my friends.
She would not expect this. And this is the approach I will take each week if she says no I'll just go out anyway and do what I planned with friends. Hey, that's part of GAL right.
I also stuck up for myself today during the conversation. I had watched the kids most of Wednesday evening. My W started giving me some absurd nonsense about "not making rice to go with the kids dinner". She said "I did 70% of it for you and you couldn't even take the time to make the rice"
So I set her straight in a calm and controlled manner. I told her that the reason I didn't make the rice to go with the chicken and beans was because I was playing tag and wrestling in the yard with the kids from 4-5 and by the time we were done it would have taken 25 minutes to make it and would have pushed into our D2 bath and bedtime. So I substituted some grapes instead.
Then I went on to tell her all the other things the rugrats and I did and closed by telling her that perhaps if she didn't bail everytime I came over and actually spent some time around me she would see that I am not who she thinks I am. I stuck up for myself. I'm a good father and love my children and they love me. And I'm good with them.
It kind of put her in her place a bit.
And you know what....when I went over to my house today to spend two hours with them after dinner.....she didn't leave the house.
I'm still scared. I'm terrified she is going to file. But I have to keep DBing and doing it the right way. So I'm going to keep posting and ask everyone to help me stay on track.
Even if she files, I still have the gift of time because it would be at least a year long process.
I also consulted a lawyer and found out some very relieving things. I can go home to my house anytime I want to: I have a full legal right to do so. And if she goes through with the divorce, her whole world of being a full time stay at home mom and full time parent is going to burst because given my income level, the alimony will be next to nothing, and there is no reason that I would not get joint 50/50 custody.
I'm not sure she has fully thought through what her life will look like if she does this. It will change drastically and not for the better.
Anyway. Please chime in. How did I handle this situation? Any tips or input?
Anyway. Please chime in. How did I handle this situation? Any tips or input?
Give her space.
Not sure why you started a new thread but it is best to stick to one until 100 posts,
I merged this one.
Clem,
Please, please give this woman her space. It takes time for her digest everything.
Please do not rush the process. I know you are anxious to have your family back all, but it takes a lot of time for the crisis individual to work through their issues.
Even though your communications w/her have been calm, you need to be mindful that they don't come off as controlling.
Yes, you can go to your marital home at any time...but be mindful...right now, it's her safe haven and she needs that space to work through her issues. The more you are in contact w/her, except for issues relating to finances, children or emergencies, the more you are taking her focus off of what she needs to do to heal.
BEClem, I truly know how you feel, but you've got to step back just a wee bit and give her the space she needs. If you don't, she will follow through on her threat of divorce to get you to back off.
Keep the focus on you and what you need to do to get healthy, i.e., mind, body and soul.
Ok. Space space space.
Do I ask her to do something next week since she said I could?
Only reason I ask that is because she said it would be ok for me to ask.
I swear I'm done messing up and not listening to you guys so as Bond told me: listen.
I have to get my head out of my butt and do this correctly.
If you ask her to do something, leave it open so that she can decide whether she wants to do it or not. Keep your expectations at the low level.
Don't ask her to do too many things w/you right now. It could come off looking like pursuit.
It's one step forward, two steps back. Don't rush the process.
Thanks Job. That was the plan. I want you guys to know that I left her alone when I was at my house yesterday. My focus was 100% on my children. I only spoke to her when she addressed me.
The reason I sent her the next several days of my work schedule and children time schedule was to get myself to not contact her at all for the next 5 or 6 days.
I def have low expectations on spending time. But I would assume since she told me it would be ok for me to ask her and if she said no that it would be ok for me to ask her again the following week that I am safe in doing so.
However, I would assume that in between that I need to just back way way way way off. And if she says no, just accept it and ask again the following week (only because she gave me the ok to do so).
I want to do this right so I am going to keep posting and follow what you guys tell me to do.
If she doesn't accept the offer of doing something, don't ask again for a while. If you were to ask her next week...that is called pursuing. You don't want to come off as needy and wanting her attention right now. You want to show her the new and improved BEClem who can do things w/o her around.
You definitely need to back way off and just leave her alone. Find some activities that you can do by yourself and w/your children. When she begins to notice that you and the children are doing things together and everyone is having fun and being happy, she'll then begin to feel a bit envious and want to join in.
Listen to what the posters are trying to tell you. This isn't their first rodeo and they will not give you bad advice.
Back off. Don't blow it. I think you are persuing. Buddy, this is hard, I don't deny it, but we're all in this together. Just leave her. Sending her schedules etc. is just another form of asking her/telling her what's going on. She needs to WANT to know.
I am def going to listen.
This question is not arguing with your advice. Believe me it isn't: But if she gave me the ok to ask once per week why would it not be ok to do so?
Re read the rules. You can't seem so giddy when you get some crumbs. They'll push away again. Slow and easy!
I'm certainly no expert but I'll give it a shot.
If you pursue her and get together regularly now, the dynamics of your relationship won't have a chance to ACTUALLY change. By short cutting the process, you may save the relationship for now, but there won't really be any long term change, so you will probably find yourself back here sooner than later. I don't believe that if you are here, the problems in your R are so easy to fix that a few weeks will make things go away.
Back off. Don't blow it. I think you are persuing. Buddy, this is hard, I don't deny it, but we're all in this together. Just leave her. Sending her schedules etc. is just another form of asking her/telling her what's going on. She needs to WANT to know.
Huddy. I have to communicate with her on schedules because that is communicating about kids and finances. I either do it the way I did it in one shot for the week so we don't interact every day. Or her and I need to be in contact every day to coordinate seeing the kids and dropping off money.
There is no way I can't communicate with her on kids and finances. I have two small children that I am trying to see every single day. And I have a responsibility to continue to support my family.
By sending her the work / children schedule for a several day time period it is doing it differently than her and I had been doing it. It allows for us to not be in daily contact about "when are you coming over to see the kids" "what is your schedule".....
It's trying something different in something that I have to do anyway.....schedule time with my kids and financially support my family.
Please just let her be. SPACE SPACE SPACE! When I left my first husband, all he did was pursue me and I told him just give me some space to breath. He didn't and I went thru with the divorce.
Now I am separated from my second husband all he want is space, space, space. It's hard but you have to do it. I am trying my best to give him his space.
It is time for me to start setting some short term achievable goals. I am going to write them here to start my journal. I am having alot of trouble with this so I need to take this one week or even one day at a time.
To start with. I am going to focus my goals on myself.
Goal: Start getting myself on a positive mental upswing and to break my cycle of pursuit and pressure so I do not blow any opportunity I may have.
How to get there the next 6 days.
Today: Take a short nap because I hardly slept last night. Go to work this evening. Call my kids on Face Time. Do not talk to or text W.
Tomorrow: Go for run. Go to work. Call kids on Face Time. Go to second job. Eat. Sleep. Do not talk to or text W.
Sunday: Exercise (run or pushups / pullups). Go to work. Spend afternoon at my house with my children. If W is there do not talk about anything around R. Be upbeat and positive. Do not call or text wife after I leave. Eat. Sleep.
Monday: Run in morning. Spend day with daughter and afternoon with son and daughter after son gets home from school. No R talk with W if she is at house in afternoon. No calling or texting.
Tuesday: Run or exercise. Go to work. Spend afternoon with kids. No R talk with W if she is at house. Be upbeat and show happiness and contentment. No calling or texting.
Wednesday: Run or exercise: Go to work. Ask W out for bowling and a bite to eat per our discussion. Have low expectations. If she says yes: no R talk. Just have fun and take it for what it is. If she says no. Accept it with a smile. Don't push and just let it go. Spend afternoon with kids and go out with friends instead.
That gets me through the next several days. I will be on here every day for strength, inspiration and support. I need to achieve these very short term personal goals to get myself on the upswing and on the right path.
OK. That makes sense. This space thing is difficult to understand. I don't get it either, but my W wants it, so, what have I got to lose by letting her have it? Well lots to lose, but nothing will improve if I don't - see the difference?
I'm not expert, and most of the guys on here will tell you they're muddling through, trying to work out what on earth is going on.
You will have ups and downs (in the same day, sometimes the same hour) and that's OK. Come on here, let people know, somebody will check in and have a look.
You can do this. Time, space, patience. Yup, it's hard, but we're all trying to manage this s***.
Got myself up out of the bed. Worked out. Showered. Ate. Going to go to work in a few hours.
It's a start.
Good start for the day!! Getting out of bed is the first step!
You can do this
Just some advice from me.
Make sure your goals are about improving you as a person. It's good to remind yourself not to pursue, but that's only a part of the DB process. You didn't highlight much by way of GAL and 180s and what you want to do better. I'd try to find some time to go out with friends or to a meetup or something. Staying busy + meeting new people is so important.
Thanks Heavy: it's a start.
Matt you are absolutely right. I will start thinking about that and how to find some enjoyment for me.
My 180s have been consistently focused on being Super Dad for my two amazing munchkins.
And being helpful and available to W if she needs it.
But I have to start doing things for me in order to find peace and true happiness.
I think being a great dad is super important. But being "on-call" and forcing the issue is not letting her have the space she needs. I know you've been emphatic about seeing the kids every day, but is that for you or are you trying to "prove" how good of a dad you can be?
I'm currently separated from my W and we are splitting the week 50-50. It gives us time alone with the kids and time to GAL while not needing to schedule time every day. I'm not saying it's the best arrangement, and I do miss my kids terribly on my "off" days. But getting that time for me to be able to move forward is so valuable too.
That's for my kids because they deserve it
Being 'available' for W? Is she treating you with respect like a W should? Why do you want to be a knight in shining armour to her, when she's behaving badly?
Your W won't respect you if you act like a lap dog.
And it's for me because I wasn't the best father I am capable of being the last few years. This is a significant change I need to make for the little ones and for myself.
So, let her see your changes, not make promises, be clingy etc. She needs to SEE the new you. She doesn't need to be told about the new you. She doesn't want you to do everything for her, she needs to want to be with you again.
Baby steps. Don't blow it!
And I think that's ok BEC, but just realize that insistence on time and forcing schedules may come across as trying to "prove" how good of a dad you are. And I'm pretty sure that won't have the impact you want. You'll have to decide for yourself, but I would think spending higher quality time is more important than higher quantity time. You might think of special outings or activities you can do some days and have them longer so you don't have to push for every single day.
Again, just my opinion, but I'm finding having days apart is actually helpful for me to GAL and to recharge.
Being 'available' for W? Is she treating you with respect like a W should? Why do you want to be a knight in shining armour to her, when she's behaving badly?
Your W won't respect you if you act like a lap dog.
When your told you weren't there for her and didn't appreciate her I would think that logic would dictate that that would be a change that needs to be focused on.
She lost respect for me because I was unavailable. Continuing to be so is just more of the same.
It's not an on call type thing. It's me being proactive. For example: if I'm at my house with the kids and W isn't there: I'll do things around the house that need to be done. I don't ask her if she needs help not do I tell her I did it. I just do it.
That is a 180 in my case.
BE
I get the "SuperDad" thing ... I think I was a pretty good Father, but after this all hit the fan, I was reeling and trying to figure things out I was faced with the reality I could very well go from Full Time Dad ... to part time dad, the reaction is to squeeze every ounce you can out of the now limited time to be with the kids because this sitch is not their faults but they are the casualties. This can be viewed by the WAW in the "Why now/Its to late" light ... we know better, its because all the sudden we are faced with the posibility of losing our kids even if its 50% of the time ... ^^^^^ CRUSHED me.
But .... going through the journey I did have to pull back, I was being used as a babysitter ... not a father/husband. She would try to reschedule S to be with me when she and OM had something they wanted to do .... well just as I would not fund the A, I also was not going to enable it ... if she never felt the real life ramifications of D ... if I was there to take my son whenever she wanted to 'be single' how was that fair to me, the M, S ... even her .... it was not setting the ground work to what would happen if the D went final.
I also was not growing if I was to close to it all .. that alone and away time is critical to looking at yourself and fixing what needs fixing ... being to availible to be there for my son gave my W the impression that I was right where she left me, not changing, not improving, not living .... hence not attractive.
Just food for thought when it comes to kids, do not mistake me nothing more important in my life than my S, but he is so important I had to fix me first.
How did you know that you were being used as the babysitter. How did you know when she was out with OM?
My sitch is a little different - the OW lives out of town and I have no idea when she is in town.
We have a week on and week off schedule with kids. Maybe I should just let it stay with that schedule and not vary from it.
She def views it too little too late. I'm not in a situation where I'm being used as a babysitter so that doesn't concern me.
She has said to me several times that she thinks my new relationship with the kids is great. And of course then throws in phrases like "I hope it lasts" or "I wish it was this way the while time".
Either way: it's for my kids and myself. She obviously has taken notice but still feels the need to compliment it and then follow it up with a snide remark. But that's her issue. Not mine.
How did you know that you were being used as the babysitter. How did you know when she was out with OM?
My sitch is a little different - the OW lives out of town and I have no idea when she is in town.
We have a week on and week off schedule with kids. Maybe I should just let it stay with that schedule and not vary from it.
Was not always the OM, but was definitely as she was living 'single' and with no regard to what I had planned ... was like she expected me to be home regardless. Thats when I pulled the 180's and became non-availible even if I was ... fake it till ya make it.
If you have a schedule I would stick to it and pick your spots, trust your gut ... if its a place where you can demonstrate a change-180/PMA sure take the kids, but do not become the go-to babysitter they call when it suits them, at some point they need to realize what life will be like if the D happens .... this goes back to that fantasy talk, the image/life they have created in their brains without the LBS. One of my 180s was with my new job I could take S to his Dr visits, I have done almost all of these, showing I am a good father, hands on .. but not taking him all the time so she can party it up.
She def views it too little too late. I'm not in a situation where I'm being used as a babysitter so that doesn't concern me.
She has said to me several times that she thinks my new relationship with the kids is great. And of course then throws in phrases like "I hope it lasts" or "I wish it was this way the while time".
Either way: it's for my kids and myself. She obviously has taken notice but still feels the need to compliment it and then follow it up with a snide remark. But that's her issue. Not mine.
^^^ Thats understandable from her viewpoint as she thinks your change is a tactic to trick her back into the M ... common .. takes time and consistency from you. If you were not all hands on .. this is a good 180, and good for your kids, a welcomed change regardless of your M right?
The changes we make we have to keep them up, they do not trust us as its just so not like us to do ... just keep at it and start implementing even more good changes.
I agree Cali. I get why she currently views it this way. That's why I'm not going to stop it at all and stay completely consistent. It's real and it's the right thing to do.
In time she'll have to decide for herself if she trusts it or not.
Having urges to call her. Not going to do it.
Please just let her be. SPACE SPACE SPACE! When I left my first husband, all he did was pursue me and I told him just give me some space to breath. He didn't and I went thru with the divorce.
Now I am separated from my second husband all he want is space, space, space. It's hard but you have to do it. I am trying my best to give him his space.
Thank you Hope. I value your insight so much because you've been on the other side of the coin.
Did you see that I found she had set aside $3500 for a lawyer and filled out a divorce survival worksheet.
She told me that she is thinking of filling but says that she hasn't.
Said that she is being honest about thinking about giving it a chance and spending some time together.
This is probably my last chance so I cannot be my own worst enemy here.
You know a weird thought I had: this is not a serious thought but kind of a funny one.
Reading through the forums and different stories it feels like my W is DBing me in a way: I know that isn't the case.
But she detached. She GAL. She doesn't pursue. And it makes me want her.
Anyone else ever notice that?
I know she isn't actually DBing me: but it's kind of interesting.
Its pretty typical really.
Now you can start a new thread.
Roger that Cadet. Thank you.
Interesting dynamic.
Cadet,
Are you a success story? A coach? Just wondering since you are a moderator.
You know a weird thought I had: this is not a serious thought but kind of a funny one.
Reading through the forums and different stories it feels like my W is DBing me in a way: I know that isn't the case.
But she detached. She GAL. She doesn't pursue. And it makes me want her.
Anyone else ever notice that?
I know she isn't actually DBing me: but it's kind of interesting.
I started to realize this too recently. For the past few years, I was the one emotionally withdrawn. Now it seems like she is DBing me and all I do is want her more. The irony is not lost on me. Keep up the faith. I'm only 3 months into this and have made too many mistakes to count. I still have hope for my M and have hope for your M. I think you're doing very well, all things considered. Detaching is really the hardest part and everyone on here understands and has been there. At first, even GALing was hard, but I'm finding it's getting a lot easier now that I understand you can GAL anywhere at any time. Never realized what a grump I was at work. Then I just started smiling and engaging in conversations and laughing with the guys. Work has suddenly become a lot more fun and I realize this is GALing...
We all have our ups and downs... hiding the downs has been a problem of mine on here. This is the one place we should feel free to "let it out". RAI pointed this out to me today, and it helped a lot.
Sad. Keep fighting the good fight. I pray everyday not only for myself but for all of us on this board.
My biggest problem is that I am my own worst enemy. Bond told me, and he is right, that until I start helping mysel that no one else can help me.
I just had a huge setback tonight that was self inflicted. My W has rekindled a friendship with a childhood friend. I've been so paranoid that something is going on.
I got off from work early tonight and went to stop by my house to see the kids. His car was there.
So I called W, against my better judgement. She was livid. She said yes. He is here. How many times do I have to tell you that he is my friend. Nothing more.
There is no PA. There is no EA.
Then something she said really hit home with me and made me take the hardest look I have taken at myself through this while process. She said "I don't want to be with him. I don't want to be with anybody. And I probably won't want to be with anyone ever again because if all the s&$t you put me through."
The it hit me. I am my own worst enemy. I asked her "I keep shorting myself in the foot with you don't I? Every time I take a step forward I take a step back". She said "yup".
I told her I was trying and didn't want to make any more mistakes. So she told me "than stop making mistakes. Just do it".
This really opened my eyes. It is long past time for me to get myself under control. There is no OM. I have hurt my wife so much that she doesn't want to be with anyone.
And if I'm really listening to what she told me tonight her message was clear: Stop making mistakes. Stop making excuses. Stop talking and do.
I fully expect everyone to chime in and kick my butt for my setback tonight. I deserve it. I am very angry with myself right now.
Sorry for the typos: tying on iPhone.
BEClem... I can sympathize with you 100%. I am truly my own worst enemy throughout my M and ever since BD. The changes I should have been making, I only made worse. Mostly my emotional swings.
The more I read your last post, the more I get it. I think we are in the same boat. I've done everything in my power to sabotage reconciliation. Not understanding this until now. This is what people are talking about when they say work on yourself and detach.
Just like RAI said to me... we're both very reactive to our S moods. We need to be the Lighthouse. As I come out of the fog of denial... I need to see myself in the storm... as the lighthouse.
Best of luck to you. Nobody is without faults and the more mistakes we make, the harder it will be to reconcile or move on with our lives.
Cadet said in another thread that it is so much easier to be objective about other people's sitch... because we are detached. This really hit home for me.
Thanks Sad. I'm here for you man. Thanks for being here for me.
Thanks to you too BEC... sometimes I swear I'm learning disabled because none of this seemed comprehensible to me. Only recently has it become clearer.
I hated reading this when I first started reading the threads because I was so focused on saving my M. But, we will get through this... with our spouse or not. DBing is about you!
I'm so new to this, so, I'm probably not much help. I'm having such a hard time controlling my own emotional roller coaster, that I haven't stopped to see the sitch for what it is and how I contributed to where I am. I think, from your last post, you can see how you got to where you are.
It's Friday... do something for YOU!
Sorry, tried to add this to my last post but time expired.
Bond is very direct and his 2x4's are a wake up call. At first, I had a hard time deciphering all the signs and different advice. The VET's know their stuff! I'm thankful for Bond's responses, and have re-read them all in my thread. Was just too dim to actually realize what he was telling me. First of all SLOW WAY down... (I have to tell myself this constantly). At first I thought patience meant a few weeks... how wrong I was. Live one day at a time, but start thinking in terms of years to rekindle your M, if you can get back to YOU first. Can't remember the thread, but Zues had a great analogy about a card game. Really put things into perspective.
Man, it is so much easier to be objective about other people's sitch. I don't have any good advice, but there are definitely posts that have helped me understand immensely. One is from a moderator talking about what going Dark is really about. JonJames? I printed it out and read it everyday to remind myself. Wish I had a link to it.
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2568283#Post2568283