Thanks Cadet! I have no idea how to link my threads . I would appreciate some guidance. Thanks JBx
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2547551#Post2547551
Dearest RD and Zues, I wasn't really ready to write this post. I had been in quiet reflection for a few days trying to sort through my thoughts and feelings. However I feel that I needed to say something so you don't worry about me.
This time of reflection was prompted by what ended up for me, to be some quite enthused but intensive postings on my thread, Zues' and Gan's. The exchanges on lots of different levels have made me realise lots of things, and I have been sifting through things to come to some insight and conclusions. I was likely going to post them shortly.
However you lovely men have been so kind to post your thoughts and caring wisdom that I felt I needed to respond sooner rather than later to clear a few things up.
Your last comments on the closing of my thread, made me laugh to myself and then I realised that this was not a laughing matter. Why you ask?
Well as far as I was concerned, my comments in response to RD, were just my reflections of time passed, feelings passed, mere comments made on intense memories and some truths which in the recent past would have made me feel overwhelmed, pained, an deathly sad.
BUT.... I haven't felt like that in a couple of weeks. This is what I have been reflecting on, two weeks of feeling balanced, connected and peaceful. It is has been a little disconcerting as it has been some time since I have felt these feelings. I have not in two weeks, had any thoughts of hopelessness or overwhelm - no depressive/suicidal thoughts at all. My birthday was a little knock, but I bounced this time, quite quickly. Surprised me!
So your last posts did make me chuckle. And then I thought my god these lovely gorgeous men, just turned into my ex! These sensitive men, thought that my reflections were communicating unhappiness. For me my comments were just a statement of fact about the recent past.
I thought OMG this is the impression that I constantly left on my ex. That I how I express my internal world, made him think that I was so unhappy with myself with him all the time, and this wasn't the case, by far. Man oh man, no wonder I have been in such trouble!
I read your words and I hear my ex speaking the same words. I hear my ex saying don't wallow, move forward, be in the here and now, you have so much to offer, you're sexy fun, attractive, so much potential.
Look I maybe projecting my stuff about my ex onto you two lovely men, but it is interesting that my vulnerability brings this out in men. Are you protecting me, caring for me, parenting me. Is that what I am looking for? Is this the co-dependeance playing itself out?
Three or four weeks ago, I would not have been able to handle or manage reading your posts. Two more men who think I am sad and mad and complicated and intense. Today, well it is just interesting. I don't actually disagree too much with your comments. RD I do need to love myself. Zues I do agree that a man needs to feel that he can make his partner happy. I feel I have communitcated these insights, but maybe I haven't and maybe I need to give more thought about how I express myself.
Look I have so much more to say about the insights and change I feel I have had recently but, I'm not quite there yet, and not ready to share. I think I need to try it on and see what it feels like a little longer before I talk about it.
My apologies for the above not being very well articulated or expressed. And please in no way think I am not taking your care and input for granted. That is not the case. I am so grateful to you both. What a blessing you both are to me. Today I have seen myself not only through your eyes, but through my own. And the view is interesting!
As V says, you are my higher power shining a light in my life.
Thank you Z and RD
JB XXXX
I think it was a great post sweet bean and I'm glad that you have come to this insight. Both for your sake, but also for mine. Because I'm starting to think that I want to ask him this come Saturday. -Have you felt like you made me happy? And listen to his reply. He has, but maybe he doesn't feel that or know that. I think he does know, but hey.. I'm the one who thought he loved me so all bets are off at this point.
I send you a massive hug, sweet! Thinking of you! xxx
I'm relieved to hear you're doing better. Yes, when someone discusses suicidal feelings I take it very seriously. I have no way of knowing how serious it is. What I do know is that my STBX nearly deprived our children of having a mother not long ago. Maybe I'm a bit jumpy.
Yes, I think you either projecting or misinterpreting a lot here. Please show me where I told you I thought you were "sad and mad and complicated and intense"? If you've read my posts on your thread and other threads you'll see they are all similar content, all delivered in similar fashion. The only difference seems to be in how they're interpreted.
If you need some time, you don't need to post for our sake. Now that we know everything's ok we will be just fine as well.
Thanks JB.
Well it's been a big week...I have been trying to get my head around some positive changes in mood and outlook, but also realising the the things that haven't quite taken yet ^^^^^^^^^ ( Zues, im gonna try and get my head around my level of misinterpretation and projections- I am beginning to think this might be the key to unlocking a few more things....PS I didnt mean to make you jumpy).
I have also been training new staff at work...and I love it! It had been super exhausting, and while on a liquid diet this week for stomach surgery I am having this morning, life has felt very busy but rewarding.
As I said ^^^^^^^ there is more to say...
Love to you all xxxxx
No worries JB, take your time. Any inquiries I make are strictly to make sure you're ok and because I thought it made it easier for you to keep sharing if you were invited. Now that I know you're doing well and feel comfortable sharing when the timing is right I don't want you to feel obligated to post daily or anything like that. I agree it can be good to let stuff marinate for a while, and I can see how DB forums can even be a bit of a safe place to practice communicating and interacting with each other to see the impressions we give each other and the patterns that we fall into. It's all good.
Hi JB. Hope the surgery goes well. Take care and positive thoughts. Rd
]
Thank you RD, I did not expect you to read my sitch.
That is RD, one of the most supportive generous DBers on the board.
I think one of the hard things about it all about ex, is that he never gave me a long list of things I did and didn't do. Or alternatively no I don't love you anymore, nothing. What he did say is that I wallow,
Is H right? Do you wallow?
that I should have done more not to allow him to take me for granted,
So H likes his ladies hard to get?
and that I needed to be , this one broke my heart but "someone worth marrying".
I confess Jb, I really don't know what you mean by this.
He said that there was something about him that triggered something in me, and that my feelings of suicide at that end were the last straw for him.
Lets examine this a little. You are responsible for Jb okay. But your H made a commitment for sickness and health. That is a vow not a straw.
See he made it all my fault.
Well it isn't anyone's fault. It just is the position at a point in time.
And that just confirmed a lifetime of it being my fault.. that I deserved to be abused as a child, and the only way to get noticed in my family was to lol after others and be the "good girl".
Jb, this is a very important statement. In my opinion almost the most important thing you have said. Healing childhood hurt is vital to recovery and my lovely Jb, I am asking you what have you done to heal this? I am not asking you to discuss it here as some things are very personal and private. We can chat at the big house (my thread) when you come for tea, failing that discussions with an IC may help. Healing childhood abuse will help the unhappy fragile projection to heal.
None of this seems real to me any more, it just feels like it's happened to someone else.
Some childhood abuse leaves us unattached (not detached which is different) to ourselves. In some cases on some issues leaves us unable to relate to key emotions. I used to foster kids, some of which were very abused and they were unattached to their bodies and feelings. it is how they survived.
I feel so out of body at the moment, the effect of change I suppose, where nothing quite feels like it fits,and nothing looks or feels familiar and I think this feeling will last a little while.
I would very much like you to explore this with an IC. Trauma may be causing reversion and stress reactions. Like looking at yourself as a third person or a survival out of body experience. I really care about you Jb and have thought long and hard about this post, especially in light of your more recent comments about the lightness of being. I am female and see this sadness so it isn't just a male view. Healing this could very easily reverse to become one of your most strong assets: vulnerability. Jim is always quote Breen and her talks on TED, if you have a moment explore the talk on vulnerability which is the positive side of this lack of attachment to self.
Thank you for your kind words. One day I would like to believe that he was a fool to leave me, right now though I kinda agree with this position.
I agree a little too, Jb. So this in my book is an important change point for you for your healing.
But maybe there in lies the problem ...
and the enormous opportunity to heal.
Jb, if you are willing I would like to explore this with you. Especially in light of your comments about your image and being seen as sad. I too felt there was this sweet sadness about you. I would like to know what kind of healing you would like and encourage help for you to find the best resources to do that healing.
This underlying vulnerability which seems to be a projection and a shadow from your childhood.
I know you are resting from your op and I would like to discuss this recovery more with you in due course. I sense there is some issue from your childhood that requires resolving. Wonka would call it FOO. (Family of origin issue).
There may be something deeper which reflects on your inner hurting child. This probably requires addressing because the next time a trigger issue arises then you will see the child shadow emerge.
Get well soon and come enjoy the festivities.
V
Hey lovely Tulo, I'm still here on the sidelines cheering for! Zeus has given you great advice for reflection. Bob his gentle kindness. You maybe missing your man's friendship, but in the mean time we will step up and in. . Xxxx thinking about you xxxx JB
Hello JB,
How did the surgery go? Please let us know when you can.
I noticed the quote from you in Tulo's thread. Such kind words.
Thank you - you made my day JB.
Bob
Hi JB hope your ok. You might drop a quick post to let us know how the surgery went and life in general Take care. Rd
Let us know how you are.
V
Hi JB , just wondered how your doing. If you get a chance you might let us know
Take care. Rd
Sweet JellyB..
Thinking of you, hope you are fine! Would love to hear from you!
Big hug!!
Jelly...
Pretty sure she's doing really well. Goes to show what kind of person she is when she becomes part of the family so quickly. Take care JB.
Well I have to say prior to surgery I had the emotional stocking punched out of me , nothing like some serious physical I'll health to bring your emotions and world view back into check. I am still in hospital, serious wound infection feeling like there is nothing left of the old me and now a real opportunity to start over. Thank you for all for checking in on me. I haven't caught up on everyone's stitches as yet, reading the computer screen makes me feel nauseous, and a bit stoned...talk soon xxxxJB
Jelly - good to hear from you. Way to look for that silver lining in all of those dark clouds
Please take care of yourself.
Hug from u-turn
Thanks for dropping a note JB! Ug. Sounds pretty miserable. But I'm so glad you're ok and that each day you will be better and better. Don't make yourself sick but we're here when you're up to it.
Hi JB. Glad the surgery is over. Sorry about infection. Your sounding strong
Take care. Rd
Yay! Finally out of hospital and now home. Another's two weeks off work to physically recover, but feeling emotionally so much stronger... Hope all is well with everyone one here, light, love and peaceful days my friends...xxxJB
Another's two weeks off work
Where do I sign up? Sounds. Like. Paradise.
Seriously, glad you're feeling better. I'd love to hear more about where you're at now, sounds like you're feeling more solid...but when you're ready of course. You just made a lot of friends very quickly.
Hi JellyB, thanks for stopping by my place for some encouraging words - I really needed that. I sure hope you are taking care of yourself and feeling better.
Any update?
Take care JB!!
That's it. One more bump, otherwise I'm going LRT on Jelly
Thanks u-turn and Zues....this recovery is turning out to be pretty slow...but the last of the stitches out today and I can now do my own dressings....sorry too much info....I go to write an update but feels like a massive effort. I have lost about 10kg in the last four weeks, that in lbs I think is near 21lbs. Funny it's 10 kg I have been trying to loose since BD ...makes me laugh. I'm have no stamina or strength, a lot of the weight loss is muscle, bugger all that work at the gym being lost.
I try to read up on everyone's sitches daily, so I am keeping a quiet eye on you all. Lady V is very much in my thoughts, such gumption and grace! Miss Zelda nice to see your keeping some of your gusto and sparkle back. You have both been so very kind to me.
Zues I see you are a little quieter with your posting at the time mo, but you remain everywhere , like Bob, whose a sparkling Ray of sunshine here, you give so much.
And RD we were just starting to get to know each other before my sabbatical.
And to Tulo, my sweet little candy. She has achieved a half marathon in my absence, now same rules apply to ex!
Gan, I hope you are well and your many travels are proving to be uplifting, you are such a wise and wordly woman, you inspire me to be better!
Love to you all xxx
Yikes, Jelly. I must have lost track of your thread when I was in Uganda so am a bit shocked seeing this now. So sorry you've been going through this ordeal but glad to hear that you seem to be though the worst of it. Take care of yourself.
Well another surgery for me just Saturday gone...have to say the PMA is waning a bit....hope others are travelling better .....xxxxJB
This is a phase Jb. Once done another milestone over.
Rest and enjoy your space.
How is the infection? You know V loves gore, remember the tooth sitch which went on for months and months, Swiss cheese jaws full of old debris........
Not afraid of the odd bit of surgery talk, stitches we laugh in the face of stitches, boils, pustules and gunk no worry. I tried to persuade Maybell to take a picture once, no go. Ha,
Brave warrior marks, trophies of battle, will fade to simple indications of history. Poof gone.
All will be well and Jb will be well
Rest easy
V
Hey Jelly - glad you are still posting when you can. Take care of yourself. Heal well and thoroughly.
Hi Jb, thought I would visit you in your hospital bed. I guess you don't post because of a wifi shortage, but if you have a smart tv to hand or cable, it's possible you have access to TED TV?
I get a great comfort from that.
If you like English TV and subtle dry humour and you need cheering and smiling, please try either Dads Army or Fawlty Towers.
You may uncover the Moooooooose origin.
Wishing yo cheeeeese cake and a speedy recovery.
V
Lovely V,
Yes the NZ public health system (at least in Auckland) stretches itself to one free hour of Internet or 5 dollars per day. I pick and choose what I use depending on how I feel on any given day. Sometimes the concentration required to surf the net is even too much. But I am finally on the mend so hopefully that will not be true for much longer!
I have watched Brene Brown's TED talks on YouTube, after reading about her on Toots thread , I think. Very inspiring and resonated so much with me. I intend to buy a couple of her books. My therapist and I have been skirting around the edges of this shame issue, but it may well be time to jump on in!
Anyway V I am here quietly in the background cheering for you! Hugs!
JB xxx
Hi Jelly - It is good to hear that you are on the mend. I also have had a talk to my IC about this shame thing. She brought this up to me and I suppose it will be another one of this week's topics of fun.
Take care! I look forward to "talking" with you again.
When you earn your next $5 I hope you see that I am praying for your fast recovery.
Hugs
V
Hello Gorgeous Lady V! Thank you for stopping buy. I am home now so i have been sculking about here for a couple of weeks, while I recover further. Last of the stitches are out on Thursday, I am back at work on reduced hours, I have a ways to go with strength and stamina. I have lost a lot of muscle tone and standing or sitting for lengthy periods is uncomfortable. But other than this I am in good spirits.
Jounaling:
It seems like an age since I was here actively posting with yours and Zues encouragement. I feel like I have lost a significant train of thought. I feel so distanced from the person of the last few posts that happened before my operation. I feel free of my depression, and am off the antidepressants for sometime now. I feel that I am past the emotional devastation of the ending of my relationship with ex, and over the grief of his extremely cold and unfeeling ending of our life together.
There has been no contact between us since Easter when he asked that I no longer remain in contact with his 11 year old daughter. I have relented to his request, however 11 year olds mother at her suggestion has been happy to send me pics and updates via FB and while I was in hospital, I received a facebook message from 11 year old, saying that she missed me lots and wished me well. It was too cool. Her mother is aware that I worry about the impact of her remaining open to staying in contact with me, but she has assured me that "she is long past worrying about his (ex) reaction" and will handle whatever comes.
As for me and my DBing. Well I just feel confused at the moment. I feel so distanced from the person I was when I arrived here on the boards, and so distanced from the emotional pain of the ending of the relationship, that I am kinda at a loss of where to from here. What should I be feeling, doing?
I know in reality that there is still so much emotional work to be done. I think primarily my focus needs to be on building a more loving and accepting relationship with myself. There is much pain for me down this road.
Shame, fear, childhood trauma, and self hate all exist down this road. Right before my op, I had a Good Will Hunting moment. No sure if anyone recalls, the scene near the end when Matt Damon's character is sitting in Robin Williams office and they are discussing the physical abuse Matt Damon's character endured as a child/young person, and Robin Williams character, repeatedly states over and over again " it wasn't your fault". And Matt Damon's character breaks down. Well that exact same situation played out in my last session of therapy. My therapist said over and over again, "it wasn't your fault". (please note physical abuse was not the issue, emotional neglect/exposure to my father's compulsive gambling and my mother's mental health issues/ my parentification as a child)
Now as a social worker, I have a strong awareness of my childhood trauma issues and I have said to my own clients, those very same words. However there was something about those this time, that truly resonated. I feel that I have rationalised my childhood experiences. I have no ill will towards either of my parents. They did the best they could with what they knew. I feel sincere about this. I don't feel like a neglected or abused traumatised child.
But I am! She comes out in every intimate relationship. When my emotional attachment and investment is high, there she is acting out, seeking attention, validation, loved, security. I am at a loss as to how to heal her. Some of this is my fear of what I will find. Already there is a knowing that the legacy is a deep level of self hate and shame. Shame for not being lovable enough to be protected and cared for. Am I worthy of love and care?
V you once described me as having a "sweet sadness" I don't think I have ever been so aptly described in my life. This phrase V has resonated with me for months. I love life, I love people, I love people's capacity to give and be kind, and to laugh and share joy, and I have spent my whole adult life personal and professional supporting others to have all these things, but for some reason I don't fundamentally believe I am entitled to the joy and love and peace other people experience. So the sweet is that I get what a fabulous gift life is, the sadness, I don't feel entitled to it.
I guess I talk about this as I realise that I had a sweet life, most of the time with the ex, but gradually overtime, my sadness undermined any good there was. This needs to change.
Baby steps is what my brain responds when I say to myself it is time to let go of this sweet sadness.
I have rambled, but these are thoughts that have been circling my mind while I lay in my hospital bed. There is more , but too much to make sense of and to post right now.
Thanks V for stopping by! And thank you for your prays.
U-Turn, I so want to post on your thread, but I have no words or advice that would provide any relief. I can only say that I check in a read your thread and send you warm hugs from across the planet. U there is something in the way you write, that tells me, you get this "sweet sadness". I am not saying that you experience it, but that you get it.
Zues I read your thread too, and I have wanted to post, but don't feel particularly articulate to add anything. Gan's recent post and your response, WOW! nice to see smart insightful people getting each other . Please know Zues that your emotional world and vulnerability echos mine so strongly. I am in awe of your willingness to be vulnerable.
Anyway time for bed.
Blessings to you all
JB XXXX
Nice to "see" you around Jelly! I'm especially glad to learn that you are on the up now health-wise. You ask what you should be feeling, doing. I think the answer is to just focus on just be-ing for a while. Sounds like you're working through things productively on the inside...and in time I think you will just know when the dust is settled and everything is in its right place. Sleep tight.
Jelly - I'm so glad to hear that your recovery is going well. I hope for a 120% improvement for you.
Thanks for writing that up there. It's funny that I in no way think that I can help anyone around here with advice - I can offer support and try to do that, but sometimes feel bad that I am not really helping anything.
But then I think - I remember I got a "smiley face and good job" from Wonka before - it was a highlight in a very down time - I remember that even though it was probably 8 months ago.
I remember I got a - "good job, but next time...." from Starsky before - another highlight.
great words from so many. I value every line that has been written by everyone (way too many people to thank - though I try). Advice is great - but support is sometimes all that's needed (kind of like that validation thing I guess).
Sometimes I just look and see - wow, my thread's been read 1200 times, there are people out there that just care enough to keep up and read - that's support and relief to me too.
Just a hi, thinking of you is sometimes is a bright star on a dark night. I don't know if everyone feels that way (maybe others are just annoyed by a lack of advice), I don't really think there is too much advice that can be given in my case, but support is pretty cool. just how I feel.
I do get and maybe feel the sweet sadness too. Maybe this is similar (or maybe I am way off). I was at a wake for one of W's uncles about 8 months ago and I was amazed that there were people there that I haven't seen for maybe 15 years and they knew who I was and knew my name. Later, I commented to W that I thought this was amazing and loving - she didn't understand, she said that I treated them like that, why wouldn't I expect that from other people. I dropped it, but I guess I have felt that I owe others more than I deserve from them.
sorry for rambling.
But anyway - Hi Jelly, thinking of you
Take Care
Thanks for the post Gan. Yes I think you maybe right, I am a hardcore human doer with regard to my need to fix myself or fix, help caretake for others. In the past until present day I have not been very comfortable with just be-ing. It's all a bit of a puzzle, I don't know where to start. Lol ridiculous comment in the context of discussing just Be-ing! Lol oh dear!
After a lot of recent pondering and navel gazing I am beginning to wonder if I was actually a WAS who never actually left and pushed ex to the point of doing it for me. Does that make any sense? Hmmmmmmm?
I do get and maybe feel the sweet sadness too. Maybe this is similar (or maybe I am way off). I was at a wake for one of W's uncles about 8 months ago and I was amazed that there were people there that I haven't seen for maybe 15 years and they knew who I was and knew my name. Later, I commented to W that I thought this was amazing and loving - she didn't understand, she said that I treated them like that, why wouldn't I expect that from other people. I dropped it, but I guess I have felt that I owe others more than I deserve from them
.
Yes U that is it! It plays itself out in life so subtly. My ex too didn't understand my view or experience. His self confidence would never let him believe he wasn't entitled to the respect and care of others. I on the other hand second guess others value of me all the time. Must be painfully exhausting trying to love someone who constantly feels like they don't deserve it.
JB xxx
Jelly,
Just wanted to chat through the sense of unreality or dream disconnect which comes across in your posts. The issues of childhood which are emerging.
I think a couple of significant incidents have happened in your recent past, firstly you have been unwell and faced your own limitations, a glimpse of mortality and surgery is a deeply difficult time. It's invasive and intrusive, with issues all of its own. Secondly you have had space and thought time, like it or not without distractions that is huge personal growth. A time to ponder, review and renew. To consider the past and set the future.
Truly childhood issues arise within us at these times, inadequate parenting in one aspect or another is the human condition. Not everyone is blessed with just good enough parents. We have to parent ourselves in adulthood, that is part of our job, to set boundaries for ourselves. To expose ourselves to growth, opportunity and to hold ourselves responsible for that which we do.
The fact that no other even our parents or spouse can satisfy our needs is self evident. Only we can know and do that for ourselves, plus we go that step further, we say is this a 'need' or a 'want'. In essence many of the things we need are really just wants and not deal breakers. To live with a parent who is an active gambler can be very destructive to a child and no doubt the interplay between mum and dad created difficulties as it must with compulsives. That was the hand you were given to play with. As an adult you have the choice to take the healing path.
You mention the sweet sadness and that it resonates for you as a description. The child within you emerges and you recognise that so sweet sadness will be one of your shadow characters. This tells you something that needs nurturing, it's helpful as a guide. It is part of you to embrace with love and to care for. In the same way I embrace screaming banshee, she tells me as she is emerging that my boundaries are breached, this warrior princess ready to defend my honor. Thank goodness she exists, and I thank my higher power. As she emerges I can put her on high alert and say, if I need you come but in the meanwhile stand guard. Be ready but don't screech. That is the role of sweet sadness, she tells you that as this precious child within you feels unworthy, this is a guide to nurture you.
You have the choice to say, this or that in unacceptable to me as choices I have made, these choices weren't worthy of the Jellybean I am today. I have regrets but I can forgive the Jellybean who was. To earn forgiveness we need three things, we need the three Rs, refraining from further bad actions, repenting for what we have done and restitution as far as possible unless to do so would cause harm. This applies to ourselves too, 12 steps tells me that forgiveness is about those that create the problem, it isn't about those harmed. The hardest step is repentance, in this we accept the harm done not because there are consequences although that is relevant, nor because it has been uncovered, we do so because we understand our actions were harmful.
Did WH get harmed by screaming banshee? I doubt it, he would just point and go "there told you ". The real harm was done by me to me. It wasn't nice or pleasant of me but truly damaging to WH? However I have atoned and repented as if it had been very harmful to WH. Now I do so for myself to forgive that Vanilla who behaved in that way because it is unacceptable to the Vanilla who is.
Jellybean can you truly forgive that earlier self and heal? That is the choice you make when you apply the three Rs. It is work to do and I can tell you it's healing work. Then there is the space to heal sweet sadness and her childhood and work on the issues dear Wonka calls FOO.
Your body and mind are healing well. Cherish that in your life be affirming. The journey begins again.
V
Hi Jelly!
I just wanted to stop by and inform you that I have not forgotten about you! I haven’t been online too much lately and I’m trying to catch up on your situation. I'm sorry it's been so long since I checked in on you.
Peace to you and may every day be better than the previous. Hang in there!
Your friend,
Bob
Oh lovely Bob, I didn't think you had forgotten me. Besides I have been keeping up with your switch and know you have a lot going on right now and sounds like you are coming to some new insights. I love the number of people you stop and send out your love and prayers to. You are so cherished and loved here Bob. It wouldnt be same without you!
JB xxx
Thank you Lady V, so much of what you say makes complete sense. I want to marinade in your words a little longer before I post my thoughts and feelings. Let the coming days bring more peace and healing for us both. Xxx JB
Hey JB! My hands are tied online, but picture a big "Welcome Home" banner from all of us at DB!
In regards to healing your wounded inner child...there is some truth to that, but there is a balance. I've been working on this for years, and since BD with more intensity. I have learned how I work in some ways, my personality tendencies, where some of this came from. I have learned ways to function a little bit more acceptably and effectively. And I am still having some of these conversations.
On the other hand I am reading a book called "The 9 fantasies that will ruin your life". Nearly done. Reading slowly I guess. Point is, one fantasy that I've been aware of is the idea that I'll change into someone that doesn't have lots of problems. The reality is this will never happen.
Accepting some tough realities are helpful for me. After BD I was really scared that I'll never have a "true love" again, or that I'll never have the M I want. You know what? I won't. Because the M I want, and the way I thought true love would work...mostly fantasy. The idea that somehow I'll turn into a person so worthy I can attract a partner that will make me feel loved, accepted, appreciated, and understood, and we'll love each other unconditionally, and our love for each other will be special and magical...mostly fantasy.
The reality is that I am a good guy that is real, with some strengths, and some quirks. I am worthy of a woman who is also real. I am capable of handling a relationship that is, too, real. That will have time where we feel understood, loved, and cherished, and times we feel frustrated, powerless, neglected, and lonely.
I guess what I'm saying is that acceptance of my divorce has been the easy part compared to accepting that life, love, and marriage don't work the way I wish they did. And as I've started accepting that, I feel better about myself. ***As long as I use whether I'm capable of attracting and retaining a perfect partner and achieving a perfectly fulfilling marriage to gauge my self worth I'll come up lacking***.
Now that I've figured that out, I realize while I'll always wrench on myself and continue to strive to be my best, I am already good enough, everything's fine, it isn't the way I wish it was, but it's all good.
And back to you, when I read your journey, I feel the same. I wish you success with your inner healing and personal growth, but make no mistake, that growth is for you and lifelong, not because there's anything off about the person you are at this moment.
Take care and again, good to hear from you.
I'm feeling a little out of sorts this evening. I have been struck with pangs of missing ex. I think this has something to do with posting again and acknowledging my behaviour that lead to the ending of my relationship with ex.
I find my mind ruminating, asking myself time and again was it really all my fault, was I really that difficult to love and live with. I struggle at times with the thought of how poorly ex thinks of me and never being able to make this view right. I realised this is newcomer BD thinking, but I am stuck a little in this at the moment .
Guess this brings me Lady V to your comments on the three Rs. I know from conversations with my therapist, that I don't feel comfortable with the idea of offering myself compassion and forgiveness. when asked if I could have compassion for the small child (he thinks preverbal was probably the first trauma) . I really struggle with connecting to the compassion for this child. Rationally I can, but I feel so detached emotionally from her. It sounds so sad not being able to feel compassion for her. There are serious of hateful statements that come to the like of not deserving this compassion. God this stuff is so entrenched that at times I lack the faith that I can become a functional person in a healthy relationship.
What if my relationship, more my ex didn't have all the issues I thought he did, - the core one for me was his lack understanding and empathy for my emotional demons that make me who I am. I am scared that I turned a really great man and relationship into a bad one with all of my childhood issues. How do I forgive myself this?
Zues, your words resonate so much and your words in astrix completely encapsulates my value of a relationship in my life. I had this very conversation with my very first boyfriend who I met when I was 34 We lived together for a year together on and off for 4 years . I told him that recently I realised that I really do believe that if I just have the perfect relationship and be the perfect partner, then I would be happy content. My life has been goal focussed on this. I realised I just want to be loved to be happy. Hmmmmmmm this strategy is not working for me. I want to let this part of myself go. I want different more fulfilling goals, a more fulfilling life. It's gotta take the pressure off the man in my life to make me happy...time to be a grown up...don't you think!
Blessing to you all and have a good weekend!
JBxxx
A reflection:
I was raised catholic attending both a catholic primary school and secondary school. My secondary school age 10-17years was all girls and the teaching staff were mostly women 2 males teachers. I am the middle child of three daughters. I am a social worker, which is female dominated, in my service there are three male social workers out of 35.
So why am I stating the above. My father for most if not all my life, was my only contact with a man. And he was absent due to his addiction to work and gambling, and when he was home took zero interest in his daughters and wife, except to critique their poor domestic skills.
I have had only two intimate committed relationships with men. The first at 35 and the second at 39.
My experience of men prior to my two relationships was either entirely nonexistent or untrustworthy.
It is somewhat humbling, heartwarming and reassuring to me then to read the posts of men on this board. I have never been exposed to committed loving men. Men who reflect and share emotion. I know that some of this reflection comes from loss, but it leaves me in awe of what men are capable of.
My life had made me fearful of men and their cacapcity to cause me pain.
Thank god I get read these posts, of husbands and fathers. May I be blessed to find myself such a man as those that are here.
JB. Xxxx
Jellybean
It is ok, just to be. Whatever Jellybean was is not what she is.
Did you do what you could do? The answer is absolutely. The thinking that another can complete you and that if they understand you enough, love you enough that will make you whole. In actual fact it makes us hole! I think most of us start with that view, until we learn by experience.
Regrets are valuable as long as they are washed away. Jellybean you have had the benefit of two loves in your life, some never have any. There will be more love in your life to come, lots of it, I Internet promise.
This child will heal, the child has said I want to heal and is seeking and reaching out. Jellybean the past will heal as you recognise it. DB is healing you.
Can I ask Jellybean what purpose lack of compassion has for you?
It must have some value to you otherwise there would be compassion. I ask that because I too am a Catholic and I find I am harder on myself than I am on others. I am the eldest of three daughters with matched schooling to yours and nuns with bad habits.....
The sense of being unworthy comes with the strict but loving upbringing I had.
Jellybean you had the sadness of a compulsive father who you said was distant. I am glad you are seeing the loving men on the board as a counterbalance to your dad.
As you become more yourself, then have compassion for you.
Peace and calm
V
Hey JB. Wow. What a story. No relationships until you were 35. You finally tentatively invite some men into your life and BLAM! Away they go. I can see why you could be troubled. That's not how the story books go. But your story isn't over yet either.
I'm glad we could boost your confidence in men. I understand exactly what you're saying. I will admit that I'm pretty numb in my heart in light of what I've been through. The idea of a woman in my life again triggers a pretty negative reaction, I can only picture reruns of the same train wreck. But I agree that getting to share this experience with others helps me maintain faith that down the road there may be some hope for a mature relationship.
Good to have you back on the boards.
Yes Zues, for lots of reasons I hung onto the fairytale of the right man and giving yourself only to one. Somehow the years passed and I woke up being 30! I didn't quiet make it to being the 40 year old virgin. I am a romantic and idealist, which has left me lonely and with excessively high expectations. When your have talked about your own high expectations, maybe fantasies I get it. I am learning at 43 what most people learn in their mid twenties and 30's.
Lady V summed it up the best ^^^^^^^^^ up there. There are those famous lines in Jerry McGuire..."you complete me" and "you had me at hello". Both men I have loved, I felt exactly that way, and then at some point I didn't. The reality of being two flawed human beings manifested and the fairytales drifted away, but never my love for either of them. I love them both still. Hahaha the fantasy reigns! Lol
I remain hopeful that there is still some love out there for me, and special someone that truely gets me but loves me anyway. I joked with ex1 recently that I was likely to become the cats lady with no cats (allergic). Time will tell
Thanks for stopping by Zues. It means a lot xxxx Jelly
Hey lovely Lady V, just read the emotional flooding post on the abuse thread. Yes! Yes! Yes! That one post has given a name to the "verbal meltdowns" I have experienced in both of my relationships. I feel less crazy now. I'm still pretty sure I am a undiagnosed high functioning BPD, but diagnosis shmonsis! My reading about BPD and DBT (a model of therapy I have been using) bodes well!
As for your question about compassion. I think I am so attached to the story of being unloveable and unworthy that I am not sure who I am without feeling bad about myself. People who love themselves and have good self confidence could never understand such a statement but it is what it is. I am however working on this just being and just accepting myself as I am. It is not a natural state.
PS I have been reluctant to put the BPD stuff out there as people are so judgemental of people with these behaviours, including me (the mothers I have worked with this disorder have been the most challenging in my career). But part of the self acceptance is owning the really negative behaviours I have engaged in that don't work for me.
Enough for now TMI..
XxxxJelly
Jelly
From where I sit BPD doesn't sit right. I think it's more emotionally undeveloped, sort of like a plant that never flowered. From where I sit it seems that it's almost that you don't have the skill sets yet.
I note black and white thinking, a tendency to judgement of yourself and others and the to 'set' that judgement, a little like a young teenager.
I would like to go back to my plant analogy, some plants are sterile, they do not have the ability to flower, others just haven't had the nutrients to grow to flower. They have the ability, have beautiful flowers but need fertiliser, perhaps replanting and then they will flower. Beautifully.
BPD is a tough diagnosis and actually a whole range of disorders from drama queen (doesn't fit- you come across as calm), narc (doesn't fit- you have over quite a period related to a number of posters with compassion) and so on......
If I may say although of course I am no clinician, but I did live with a borderline. DBT is a version of CBT which can help with skills so would be good whether the diagnosis is right or wrong. You might like to explore Mentalism skills too modern version is NLP., have you looked at that?
A website I found useful was 'out of the fog' which is for the family and friends of those with the disorder. BPD usually have more Rs and more fragile Rs and are often codependent. I never believe these diagnosis are for life, like being a type 2 diabetic, diet and exercise can reduce type 2 to borderline type 2.....
It's always worth exploring this for your own sake and very brave indeed. Very proud of you at this moment as you consider recovery and self regulation.
V
Thanks for your kind words and analogy of the plant Lady V.
I believe that it is a kind way of viewing my emotional skills and development.
I have always described myself as a late bloomer LOL .
Due to childhood illness I spent a lot of time on my own in hospital, and as a child when I returned to school due to my shy nature and lack of time at school I struggled to make friends. I have since then, found social relationships diffcult to understand, culivate and maintain.
However I am an excellent social worker, have amazing rapport and engagement skills and deal with tough crisis and personal matters incrediably well. I do now have a very solid but small group of friends who love me and make me laugh.
I guess the lack of intimate involvement and investment makes a significant difference for me.
I have over the last 6 months become more comfortable with the possiblity of a BDP diagnosis or even that I have a number of the behavioural and emotional indicators. Marcia Lineham's work is a relief. Her description of someone with BDP, and their emotional requlation issues. Well alot of my emotional life hsa begun to made sense. She has such compassion for the people who suffer from this disorder. And she has optimism and hope for full recovery.
I have told only one close friend about the BDP,the shame attached to not being able to manage emotions is quite significant.
Yes V I am very calm, when not emotionally invested/codependently engaged with another. I over empathise at times, and have significant compassion for others, so definately not a Narc, although as lots of people with BDP, I am self centre, controlling and manipulative when I am in emotional distress and emotionally disregulated. As I said quite high functioning for a crazy girl. lol
My DBing goals are all about recovery and self regulation. It's nice to find someone who understands some of the road I am on. I don't think I would have taken this journey if I have not broken up with ex. So small blessings!!!
My DBing journey is quite different to others here and I do wonder what people think, but I try to remind myself that each one of us doing what we can, how we can, with what life is presenting us at this time. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone here!
Thanks for the love and support Lady V. You have read me so well over this strange and awesome medium that is the internet!!!
Hoping your journey becomes easier and that you continue to look up at the view.
XXXX Jelly
I visited the out of the fog website Lady V, very good reading, but hard to read. And the founder of DBT is Marsha Linehan not Marica. Duh!
Jelly,
Just stopping by to say hi. Sounds like you have been digging - don't give up.
I have felt that I didn't "fit in" here on the DB forum. My journey was different than many. In some ways better, in some ways worse. I do feel that this has helped me immensely and do not know what condition I would be in if it wasn't for all of this fine learning that I have done.
I'm going to be honest, that thus far I do not believe that DB'ng had helped/saved my marriage in any way (likely my fault for not implementing the advice properly or strongly). But it has helped me and I actually feel stronger than I have felt in a long time. I would credit DB for this.
Take care Jelly!
JellyB
To help me can you explain what you mean by hard to read, please.
V
Morning Lady V! I meant that it was hard as in my emotional response to it. So much pain in people's lives. People trying to find ways of being better. Hard to read and own behaviour that I never intended. But I have new pages to write, to flowers to grow. Jelly xxx
Jelly
Thanks for that explanation.
I wish you peace today.
V
Morning V!
Morning here in old Auckland City, a clear cold Winters morning. Just getting ready to head out to have brunch with a girlfriend, at one of my fav brunch places, they do the most amazing hash browns and coffee is also good. I love this particular friend K as she epitomises a few qualities I would like to devlop. Sassy, confident, her own person, and she has the driest wit of anyone I know. Should be a lovely way to spend the some of the day.
This does however bring up GAL. Never been an easy thing for me. 1. Naturally a home body and introvert - can spend heaps of time reading, watching good film, pottering at home. 2. Degrees of social phobia at time, meeting new people is a push. 3. I want to be excellent at everything now! I find new activities pushes my need to control and failure buttons - need to be perfect. All excuses!!!!
I want to have a great life while I am choosing to be single, to set myself up for when I am with someone and not become all codependent and needy again.
First things first though- new flat is needed, living with my sister (who was kind enough to let me land on her door step or more single bed in the spare room) I feel like a little girl here and with the surgery time to stand on my own two feet. It's been long enough!
In answer to your question Lady V. Yeah I'm good!
Have you still got your groove on?
Love JB
Hey there Jelly - oh yeah - I tend to forget about that whole hemisphere thing as it is oppressive (as the meteorologists call it) here. Winter (I really like winter).
Your description of your GAL struggles - I'm sure you must be talking about me - That is going to be a tough nut to crack with me. I feel very awkward around groups.
You sound great!!
Keep on healing - keep on truckin'
I try to turn everyday stuff into GAL, I prefer small groups too.
With paradoxical ADD (hyper focus) I am known for disappearing up my own orifice on occasions, I can get lost for days left to my own devices when I am single. It's not fear necessarily but lack of drive, so I deliberately build outwards GAL such as dancing, parties, opera into my schedule. I also did public speaking too.
I think it's ok to mix it up a little. I try to avoid TV too.
Groove still on Jelly. Feeling chipper.
V
Jellyb
I have seen you about the board with some beautiful inspiring posts which I am enjoying reading.
V
Hello Lady V,
Trying to reach out of my introverted cave, and connect more. New goal of mine. Since I am feeling so much better,I thought that while I don't have any sage advice to offer and I can offer some kind words of encouragement.
I feel a longer post is coming about where I am at, but I'm still formulating some ideas and feelings .
Catch you soon lady V
Jellybxxxx
Jelly - I am finding really hard to break away from my introverted ways. I have not done well meeting new people - I sure hope to do better (I met my S21's potential future FIL the other night - which was a social stretch for me to do on my own without WW. It went well, but I feel so awkward trying to make light conversation - I'm sure that sounds completely weird to most people here).
But anyway, thanks for stopping by my place earlier, I hope you are doing well and also hope to have an update from you.
Cheers
Big hug Jelly B!
Looking forward to reading your update.
PP
Thanks Lady V, U and PP for stopping by, so lovely to have visitors.
Ok so here goes! Update:
Health: Well I am about 95% back to full health. I can walk fairly upright now and the wounds are healing really well, , the scarring may not be as bad thought it would be. Although the skin on my stomach looks like a crime scene and is generally a mess (I'll explain more about that later). I am getting to the point where I need to get back exercising. The weight I lost is slowly creeping back on.
Living Situation: Well as I said previously have been living in my sisters spare room since the BD. Well I have been flat hunting. OMG Auckland rental situation is appaulling and the cost. I am reluctant to go flatting again with others at age 43, but it seems like the most finanically sensible decision to make at the moment. It will allow me to keep saving for a deposit on a house. (This is a new goal - Have decided that it's time I set myself up for my retirement just in case I end up becoming a the crazy essentric spinister lady)!)
Work: Well, I have completely stepped out of my comfort zone and applied for two positions within my workplace. Both feel way outside of my area of confidence. While I didn't get the one I really wanted, the feedback from the interview was positive, I was told to apply for a similar position when one becomes available, that is more specialised and I would likely success in getting it. The other position I did get, and I start that on Monday next week. It is a pilot project related to how the govt is going to respond differently to Child Abuse and Child Protection in NZ. I am really excited as the social work practices are going to be new and ground breaking. This position could potentially set me up for a new role once the project is over.
I am super excited about this change in working environment, as my work had been a significant point of tension within my relationship with ex. I felt like my career had stalled in the small town I had been living in with him. The opportunities and development just were not there. Since I have been back in my home town and back in my current workplace, opportunities have been coming left and right. And now I feel able to take them up.
I am not sure if I should be to ex for letting me go or what. Something to consider a little longer. I know that he feels that this is one of the reasons he felt he needed to end things between us. He feels that he was letting me come back to a place where I could be more successful and have what I wanted. Hmmmmm, that thinking doesn't make sense to me still.
GAL: Well my introverted nature, means that I am still enjoying the quiet life. I am quite happy reconnecting with friends still. I know I need to push myself to take up some new things. I brought a really nice DSLR digital camera just before things went pear shaped with ex. I had the intention of doing a night class in photography. So this is one of my GAL goals for the coming months.
I also want to get back training on my road bike. I feel like I need to pick a cycling event. I think this is the only way I am actually going to get the focus I need. Some spring and summer weather would certainly help but that's a long way off. I just need to harden up and put my BGP's on and do it!
It feels ridiculously odd but I have dipped my toe back into the dating pond. OMG, am I ready for this!!!!!!
I forgot how dating triggers all my insecurties! All my triggers that occured in my relationship with ex, come up via dating. So I have decided to use dating as tool for healing and recovery. I can already feel some small (and I really mean minute changes) in how I am responding. Just less worried about what they are thinking about me, and need to seek approval. Trying to let go of being too accomdating and saying what my preferences are.
Big trigger is around my physical appearance. Well I am going to say this out loud, and it freaks me out to write this out. But this is growing. I have been a fatty since I was about 10 years old and my weight esclated to the point at at 28 years old, I was about 340Lbs. Well I have worked hard to get down to 187lbs. The weight loss has taken it's toll on my skin ( thus way my stomach looks like a crime scene with the recent surgery). Well the idea of dating again and potentially exposing myself physically,FREAKS me out completely!!!
Just telling someone you are attracted to is hard enough. The shame and embarassment of how I let myself get that big. So not looking forward to having to explain it again.
I have to acknowledge that I get a bit annoyed and frustated(and it is wholy unwarranted) about people being worried about dating and finding love again with someone new. I just don't get their anxiety. I think what have you got to worry about, your're attractive inside and out and have alot to offer. You don't have to explain why your body looks like a bus crash! (please know that I realise this requires alot of unpacking and letting go).
Mental health: I have been putting off going back to therapy as I don't want to spend the money. I generally feel good. I am depression free at the moment and the freedom of that is amazing. I feel the most like my best self, it has been some time since I felt like this. At least a couple of years. So I am enjoying it.
There is an update needed about feelings about ex and where that stands but I think I'll save that for another day. Enough said above I think.
Well there's my open book on where I am. Exposed!
Thanks for caring, reading. Sending you all my love, and some glorious light to see you through your journey.
xxxJellyB.
Hey Jelly, thanks for the update and thank you for sharing.
I'm excited you have an interesting new opportunity! I know my career has been a great outlet for me, something that has met many of my needs and allowed me to provide for my family as well. I'm glad hiring managers are seeing the value you bring and that you'll have a chance to play such a rule within this important project. Yes, with any new job comes a few negatives to be determined, but the overall sounds just fabulous! And you're right, money does matter, keep on this road and you'll have enough to buy a whole room full of cats
I don't put too much weight into the 'you'll be better off back home' business. WAS's are grounded in selfishness and are all about justifying what they want, this sounds like rationalization and ways to reduce guilt to me.
I'm still mulling over what he said before about wishing you'd set stronger boundaries or had not been so easy to take for granted. There's some interesting feedback there, and I know I had the same feelings at times about WAW...and while I never left and thought I valued her, there were times I treated her poorly and felt I was being noble for accepting an undesirable package. My frustration was she followed the path of a stereotypical SAHM...she let her appearance go, let the house go, and most importantly she put 100% into the children and completely neglected me. I was really frustrated and in turn put 100% into work and my hobbies, and our M fell apart over the last few years. There are no excuses to how I treated her. I can just relate to the idea that it's hard to value someone that doesn't know who they are and value themselves. Sometimes it's better to have a little conflict that is worked out through validating each others feelings and collaborating vs. being a pushover that makes the other person feel lonely because they're the only one with a personality (we talked about this before).
The reason I bring that up is because as you know if you start thinking of yourself as damaged goods in any way, be it your history with your weight, your surgery, or your introverted nature...you might attract the wrong type. I'm not just thinking of people that run you over, I'm thinking the codependent type that want to be a 'rescuer'. I've learned about the abusive rescuing triangle, start by rescuing, then get resentful that you are rescuing, then get abusive because of the resentment. It's a mess. You don't need a rescuer, you need a partner.
The hard part in that is that you have to break that potential cycle before it starts, and the way to do that is to put more value in how you see yourself. I know this is hard to do, and I can speak to it because I have the same battle. For me it's not weight or skin or scars, but as you've followed my posts you'll know that for me I am concerned that women will find my sexual desires as disgusting as you fear they'll find your body. The perception that guys start at all the beautiful people on TV and shrink away from a real woman with blemishes...I have the perception that women are so feminist and liberated that they'll punt me the minute I don't fit their ideas on how I should view sex and besides they don't need a man because it's 2015 and they won't settle...
That's a very high level description, it's more complicated than I can sum up in a few sentences. And I'm not saying it's exactly the same, I understand appearances are more visible so from a social perspective. Just know that as a guy I don't care about any of that stuff. I actually think the fact that you were able to overcome that challenge to this extent is pretty inspiring...and while I hope you stay healthy and take care of yourself, I wouldn't walk out on a woman if she gained weight back either. While looks can dictate attraction when you're in a group of strangers to some point, it's not 1/10th as important as who that person is, and once I'm with someone that matter (treating yourself with respect does, and that means taking care of yourself at least a little). When STBX treated me lovingly she was the most beautiful woman in the world to me...now I don't see it anymore. I'm confident that most men would have selective vision and see you as a beauty queen once they got to know you, and anyone that would run and hide you're better off without.
I know you know all of this, and that it can be tough to overcome social stigma. Just wanted to say thanks for sharing. The acceptance on these boards has been very helpful for me to start growing more confident in these areas. And I'm glad you're talking about it so we can get to know you better.
Hope you're having a good weekend JB. I've wrote a book recently and couldn't help but feel some parallels. Thanks again for sharing and being part of the family. Take care and talk soon.
Jb
If your tummy is a confidence downer have you thought about having remedial surgery?
I have had that on the collapsing Swiss cheese jaw.. Dental surgery for my confidence.
V
Hey there Jelly
I'm so glad you are finally feeling good. I'm sure that is a relief. Keep healing.
It would be scary to go flatting with others - I have never lived with a stranger like that - aside from WW for the last 18 months. I hope for the best. I have been looking in a minor way for houses/apartments that would work in my budget and work with my two kids that live with us yet. It is tough. I am trying to keep my house, but am having some distant second thoughts on that - this house is haunted by a lot of memories that I think will always rattle their chains at me - I can always decide that later I guess.
I hope you stumble into something great.
when I was looking at bike trails here on google maps, I happened to scroll all waaay over to Auckland - a lot of bike trails there - looks like a great city - do you like it there? (does there happened to be a shortage of architects there - I can pack up and leave.)
What a great opportunity with your job - the way you write here, it sounds as though they would be privileged to have you. What a great thing to help others this way. I wish you success.
That is brave of you to talk about your insecurities. I can tell you that the things that you may be insecure about do not matter to most men and especially not to to the right person. My W is severely scarred from a "poorly done" reconstructive surgery she had when she was 20 and child birth was not easy on her as well as weight changes throughout and I can tell you that I have always thought she was the most beautify person and was never reluctant to tell her that and was always proud to stand by her side.
I am sure we all have our insecurities, I know I do - I could go on and on, zues has talked about his. I wish I had great advice with this, but I think many of us are the same - but we don't talk about it. We all seem to be hardest on ourselves, most judgmental to ourselves - it's really a shame.
Good for you getting out there and dating a little - I'm sure it is both a confidence boost and challenging all the same (that will scare the bejeezus out of me - can't even imagine). I understand your frustration about other people's insecurities, but I assure you their insecurities are real too (I can vouch for that) and these insecurities you feel about appearances are not warranted especially you are with the right person - trust me (I know you know this). I know I have contradicted myself here, but hey - I've never been accused of making sense.
I hope you are having a great weekend. It sounds like you are doing well.
Cheers
Jelly,
I hope you are continuing to feel better. I am going to dedicate a prayer for you after this short post of mine.
Thinking of you...
Bob
Jb
If your tummy is a confidence downer have you thought about having remedial surgery?
I have had that on the collapsing Swiss cheese jaw.. Dental surgery for my confidence.
V
Lol you always tickle me with your use of language Lady V, it feels to me their is a quiet love affair there.
Yes I have been planning of plastic surgery to have the excess skin removed for the last 8 years. Every time I have been close to following through I have put it on the back burner, to support my then partner in his dream and aspirations. Meaning i put my savings into supporting them and not into this dream.
I have made a decision that the surgery will happen in the next 12-24 months. This is something that I really want, and I feel it will change the view of myself considerably.
Has your dentistry changed how you view of yourself?
Look forward to hearing from you Lady V.
PS:. I would love to get arms around you for the most awesomest of squeezy hugs. ((((((Lady V))))))))
Thanks for the hug PP...I never turn one of those down, particularly from an awesome man as yourself. Fingers cross about your woofie!
Jellybxxx
Lovely U,
Come to Auckland and I will show you some awesome rides and amazing scenery. And I am not sure if you are a coffee guy but I love to share a coffee with my cycling buddy. Not sure what kind of bike you ride, but mine is an Avanti Questa 2013 model, its black, white and neon pink. Its a woman's specific road bike made by a NZ cycling brand.
As for packing up and moving to NZ, well the possibilites here a quite good. Auckland is in the middle of a housing shortage and govt are looking to create more housing. Christchurch is also an option. And NZers love architecture and design.
Thanks for your kind words about my insecurities. In the past when I have dated I have put the weight issue out on the table right from the start and discussed it. I think I do that so I feel like I have control over it, attempt to give some indication that I have my head around it and that i have good self esteem in spite of it.
This time I have decided not to raise it at all, until something comes up. I want to see what happens. The man I have had a couple of coffee dates and one dinner with, appears to be a very sweet man of an introverted nature so I think I can pace myself, which is good. Historically I have moved things quickly physically to get past my anxieties, and I think too, just quietly (and with some shame) to test their willingness to stay. I have decided that I am just not going to make this a defining feature anymore.
Anyway I will stop rattling on. But thanks for being a friend U-turn.
JellyBXXX
Hey Mr Z, Zuesy Boy. Don't think I have forgotten you and your posts on my thread and those on your own. I need a bit more time to digest a few of your comments. It's funny a couple of comments you made on my thread stung a bit and I am wondering why.
With regard to your comments on your own thread (or your book rather), your vulnerability is admirable, you are so brave and an example to others to dig deep. Im still figuring out what I want to say, because I was left with a feeling of sadness, Im not sure if its sadness for myself, as your words often speak so much to me or if it is something else, about a significant sense of empathy related to the - I want to say demons, but it is not my place to put that on you.
Give me sometime, my brain and heart need time to consider and filter.
As always my thoughts and heart travel with you on this journey
XXXXJellyB
sorry to step on your toes JB, just glad you know where my heart is. I think it's impossible to talk about all of this stuff and not get stung sometimes. For me it's usually being misunderstood or misinterpreted that leads me to feel that way, particularly around a sensitive area.
As for me, demons was accurate during my M. Definitely. I think I've calmed them down by about 80-90%. How? Because I had to. The test will be if I can manage through a R.
I think I will be able to. I think that I've learned what doesn't work, and M is too important to me to fall short again. The same competitiveness that has driven me borderline insane and made me hard to live with...that has also driven me to put in the work on myself over the last year. I am determined to be a good H, and I think WAW made a mistake. It's like when I play pool...I win an awful lot of the time. Sometimes when people bet against me I just shake my head and think to myself 'boys, you're betting against the wrong person'. My STBX bet against the wrong person by writing me off as garbage.
Thanks for the reply, talk soon, and have a good day.
Jb
If your tummy is a confidence downer have you thought about having remedial surgery?
I have had that on the collapsing Swiss cheese jaw.. Dental surgery for my confidence.
V
Lol you always tickle me with your use of language Lady V, it feels to me their is a quiet love affair there.
Yes I have been planning of plastic surgery to have the excess skin removed for the last 8 years. Every time I have been close to following through I have put it on the back burner, to support my then partner in his dream and aspirations. Meaning i put my savings into supporting them and not into this dream.
I have made a decision that the surgery will happen in the next 12-24 months. This is something that I really want, and I feel it will change the view of myself considerably.
Has your dentistry changed how you view of yourself?
Look forward to hearing from you Lady V.
PS:. I would love to get arms around you for the most awesomest of squeezy hugs. ((((((Lady V))))))))
I would love that. I am going to be there to see the reveal. Jelly, the dental surgery didn't redeem, it restored and confirmed. Don't forget the vitamin E cream and Silcol gel.
Deferral is serving a purpose for you?
Time to go find the time. No deferral, after all those sitches hurt.......
V
Hey Jelly - thanks for posting over on my story too.
I used to have a decent Trek road bike a long time ago, but had to sell it during the great sell-off (to pay for medical bills after S21 was born - like I said a long time ago). Currently I am riding a rigid frame mountain bike (old gary fisher frame) - kind of a mutt that I assembled over time with it's geometry tweeked enough to work with my odd geometry. It's heavy and sturdy and allows me to road ride ok and xc ride ok. I'm kind of a - I'm going there today - kind of rider. Been coming home pretty muddy the last couple days - I feel like such a juvenile sometimes, but riding has been one of my sanctuaries this summer (which ends for me this week). (S17 & I are building a high wheel bike for fun too (though he thinks it is kind of stupid, but likes to build/weld) - That project has stalled now that he's working more and school is starting)
I would love to see NZ - by pictures, it has always fascinated me. And coffee - yes - won't go without it - favorite most of the day beverage.
It's interesting to hear about your methods of revealing some of your insecurities. I think that I like that you can choose to protect these until it is the right time with the right person. I don't think that everyone needs to know everything - not to minimize it, but maybe equate it with - u-turn doesn't like beets, but the guy that doesn't like beets isn't who I am, so that is a conversation for another time - maybe later in the guess what you don't know about me stage. (but I don't really know a damn thing about dating anyway - so forget all that)
.
Take care JB!!
Kia Kaha.
Was going to add that the other day.
Hope you are doing well.
Hey U, Kiaora ( Key-a-or-a- Greetings)
Yes feeling strong at the moment, but a little unsettled from the dream I had about ex last night. I haven't really been experiencing to many thoughts or feelings about him recently.
There is sadness, at the loss of the physicality of him and our life together, dreams for the futire, but not much more. The emotional pain and anxiety is gone. He has moved on to a new partner and I am here. What is to be done? Nothing!
Zues asked me before I had my surgery if I would ever have contact with him again. The desire is there, however the evidence of how he has managed our separation and from what I know of him, and our last contact means that he would likely be hostile and unkind. (to note that is not the man I fell in love with or would want to return to).
My ex has only stayed in positive contact with the mother of his daughter, because she is indeed the mother of his daughter. With his other exs he has completely exiled them from his life. So while I am more than capable of being friends with my exs, in this case he is not.
And quite frankly none of my friends would ever have treated me so unkindly or have had such little regard for me. So I guess the universe had made that decision for me.
I have wondered in recent times, if I was only in a "Imaginary relationship" (please see book "Mr Unavailable and the Fall Back Girl" - a good read for the female Co-dependent or The Too Nice girl aka emotional doormat - hard to read, it made me feel sick on first reading).
Where I was telling myself stories about how committment and how intimiate we actually were. I have talked alot in therapy about what true intimacy and true commitment are. In my opinion one without the other does seem to exist. True intimacy seems to follow from being truely authentic, the good the bad and the ugly and finding ways to accept that in each.
I know I am so fearful of being truely myself, but this DBing journey has allowed me to let go of the some of this fear. I feels good to step into my skin and see how it feels. It's not so bad, slightly tight and uncomfortable in some areas, but likely with a bit of time and some wear and tear, it will feel as if I was never without it.
Anyway a bit of ramble, sorry for the indulgent self anaylsis. Bit this was on top this morning
love to you all
JellyB
I know I am so fearful of being truely myself, but this DBing journey has allowed me to let go of the some of this fear. I feels good to step into my skin and see how it feels. It's not so bad, slightly tight and uncomfortable in some areas, but likely with a bit of time and some wear and tear, it will feel as if I was never without it.
What a beautiful statement about your journey and growth here Jelly. I believe whole heartedly that you will find yourself completely again. Not only that, you will be overjoyed that you did and refuse to be away from her ever again.
DB'ing for a lot of us if re-finding ourselves, or finding ourselves often for the very first time. What a cost that we pay to do so, but there is nothing in our experience on earth more valuable. Self awareness at any price will be worth it at some point.
Congratulations on your growth and self understanding. Your skin is just that, yours. Wear it with equal parts pride and compassion for she who resides in it.
Big hug,
PP
Oh PP , come over here for a hug, what a lovely post! Makes me feel all warm and fuzzie. I meant to pop by your thread and wish you congrats on your 200 days.
You are so inspirational. Thank you for comments and care.
XXXJellyb
Hi Lady V
I would say that deferral is a natual response for me when I am in relationship. The Co-dependent behaviour of meeting all of my mans needs and shelving my own is pretty automated.
But NO MORE!
Money will be tight related to it, but I am going to suck that up a bit. I can't afford to have the surgery here in NZ so Malayasisa is looking like the most afforable place. It will cut the cost in half.
Some days I just feel very blessed about where I am in this journey. I am lucky to be in a resting place. A place of reflection and peace. For an anxious person, this feeling is well priceless.
Sometime ago Zelda and I had a conversation about what true happiness was. I felt and still do believe happiness is unobtainable ( in the way I wanted it anyway- which the little addict in me craved to have the experience 24/7 lol)
Well I told Zelda that my goal was to have more peace in my life. I am beginning to believe that peace and contentment are far more satisfying gaols to achieve in my life, than a fleeting experience of happiness.
So to you all may you find your peace and contentment today and the days that follow.
Love JellyB xxx
Hi Jelly -
I hope you are doing well.
I think there has to be downs to really feel and appreciate the ups. To expect happiness 24/7 really just sets up being numb to happiness, taking that happiness for granted - could there be too much of a good thing?. Maybe true happiness is fleeting but these unhappy times may make us look back at good times fondly and make us strive for it again.
There will always be unhappy times - it's just life, but to keep peace in those times seems to be a great goal.
Working toward that peace and contentment - I hope you are too.
Hi Jelly,
A place of reflection and peace sounds magical. Enjoy the time here and really soak it up. That same feeling can be taken with you wherever you go.
I firmly believe that if you make a nice home out of peace and contentment, then happiness is far more likely to want to stay and settle down with you. It may have to leave from time to time, but that's ok, you still get to live what's left - peace and contentment.
Find the quiet within you, it's there. It's often scary for us, but if you befriend it and make it your own, this whole journey will be worth it.
Keep doing the work you're doing, it's paying off.
Big hug,
PP
Thanks for popping by lovely U.
It has taken this sad event with ex to make me realise that my anxiety was never a sign of unhappiness, but rather a sign that there was healing to be done. I now realise that I can experience the anxiety and still have peace and happiness, if I so choose.
To have this insight now, leaves me with a touch of sadness about the loss of ex, but resolute about the fact that I will not let get in the way of a solid, satisfying and loving relationship in the future. I am trying not to regret this man and his place in my life. I will take these gifts it has brought, the sense of being loved that I had never experienced before and I will now move forward.
My anxiety is fully engaged at present, I am not quite sure what has triggered it, i think it is frustration at not being able to find the new housing situation that I want and dating well, I knew it would trigger me like it has. There has a been some unpacking of thoughts and emotions. I know that the anxiety attached to both issues would be easily resolved if I just packed myself up into my little introverts cave and made no move to make change. I am rationally and mindfully staying as present as I can so as not to disengage and run away.
My weight is slowing climbing and motivation for exercise and eating well is elusive this is a sure sign that the anxiety is taking hold. Tomorrow is a new day and I can begin anew, my commitment to myself and my goals. There is fitness to regain and weight to be lost and esteem and self worth to be built. Sitting in the dark alone will not change this state of affairs.
Please don't think that I am overwhelmed by the above, I am not, I am just consciously feeling my way through it for the first time in my life. And attempting to do so without judgement, but instead with observation and interest.
Again U thanks for popping by, you gave me a reason to put these thoughts and feelings down.
xxxJellyb
Hi PP,
Thank you for you kind words and wisdom. It leaves me humbled that you stopped by.
This place is very unfamiliar and as you say scary. Anxiety and drama addiction, has made for a busy mind and racing heart. But I hope that amidst that new quiet and peace I may well be able to hear my own voice, my own hearts desires. I feel that for most of my life my voice has been so quietened, by the overpowering voices of others, their needs their wants. Why have I not wanted to hear my own.
So I will "befriend" it as you say and we will see what common ground there is to had.
Again thank you the blessing of you visit
JellybXXX
Hi Jelly - I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling anxious about your situation, but it makes me happy to hear that you are taking this anxiety head on. I think that I understand this as I tend to recoil way back into my comfort zone when challenged emotionally - and it gets me nowhere. Your mindfulness will serve you well.
For some reason, I have never been very good at determining what I am feeling or describe it, and therefor never really been able to address and handle it in productive ways. I do know that I pace A LOT - almost seemed uncontrollably at times for me - when I feel anxious and overwhelmed.
I hope you find the strength and motivation to get out there and start making yourself feel better - you can do it.
Take care Jelly
That inner voice distinguish it from the critics in your head. The voices which drown it are they from friends, relatives bosses, or are they from the superego critics?
The chipmunks who persuade us of who we are and how terrible we are with others voices but our concerns.
V
The dark clouds of depression are looming overhead. I am scared, feeling overwhelmed and lonely and alone. Triggered today and the sadness is washing over so slowly, I wish it would pass far quicker. Attempting to remain mindful and not get caught in its clutches, it is just an emotion, just like a wave, it will it the sand and become nothing and balance and calm will return. Patience is all that is required.
Jelly,
Let the rain clouds come, create a haven for yourself. Go read, post, put your records on, sit and journal.
There is enormous secret that I found out, this is your subconscious mind sorting itself, retiring adjusting to the new. It brings great change and will unstick you.
As long as you face the pain and work with it, this is a period of enormous change, much is unfamiliar. The work you have done has stirred the memories, your mind is cleansing and you are growing and developing. I sense it and read it.
It is going to be unfamiliar to your conscious mind and hence you sense an overwhelm, what is happening is your spirit is finding its voice. Sweet sadness is becoming and she feels afraid. Tell her it's going to be ok, you love and care for her, that this growth and openness is the anthesis of lonely. I believe this and find this is an advanced step in the twelve step program, it is the step before atonement, a step of great healing when all of the work is coming together. A step where the great gifts are open to flow, when the spirit releases and becomes ready to act and move forward.
Thoughts are just that, they are not real, they do not have to be believed. Much of it is the critics naysaying wanting the comfort zone. Big changes are here, let the magic begin, you are ready I think so.
---------------------------------------------------
Here is Plain Vanillas letter to Sweet Sadness.
Dear brave sweet sadness,
I can see you are afraid and think you are lonely and isolated. This is causing you to be worried and create feelings of concern.
I know this and thank you for telling Jellyb in your own special way about your concerns. Jelly needs you in her life, she is blessed for having you, you are one of her greatest advisers. You warn her that there is more work to do. I do this all the time for V, it is one of my important roles for her.
Jelly takes great care to listen to your guidance. Rest easy the work that Jelly is doing is to grow, to be open to heal, so there is sunlight and peace not rainstorms and clouds.
She loves you very much and as a result is working her pain and yours to be open to love from all sources. She is beginning to love herself so there need never be loneliness again. Being alone is not being lonely, dear sweetness whilst you and Jelly are healing and loving each other you may be alone but you are alone together.
Rest easy, it will be ok.
Love
Plain Vanilla
---------------------------------
Much love and peace today
V
Jelly
I am sending a hug your way and hoping these feelings pass. Are weekends a trigger for you?
As I believe it is monday morning there, does the busy work day redirect these feelings?
I have dreaded weekends too because of potential interaction with WW and downtime to dwell on things. I have chosen to change these things - no interaction and no downtime.
Is winter leaving yet so you can get on that bike?
---------
Oh and what V said up there ^^^^^^^ that's wonderful. (I wish I could speak, write, think like that)
Take care Jelly
Your friend U-turn (I'm going to try to get this without looking back for it - Kia Kaha - did I get it?)
Jelly...for once I'm at a loss for words, I never know what to say. Just had to bump this and let you know I'm thinking of you and what you're experiencing. Hope to hear from you.
Hey Jelly. You've got a lot of weight on your shoulders. Hope you're finding some moments of peace and finding meaning in the suffering.
Hi Jelly - sure hope you are ok.
I know when I have taken time away from here I have found myself either too busy to keep up or have had feelings of - I am just writing to write and it is of no help.
Well - I hope it is more the former and less the latter. Please let us know how you are doing when you get a chance. I almost always find that it does help to write and get those virtual hugs from the other side of the world.
peace&love to you.
Jellyb
No disrespect but it's time to open a new thread.
With new thoughts,so those of us who are invested in you can post to you instead of you posting to us.
Sweetpea, it's time for your next growth. It's time for us to give back, let us do that. It's ok.
V