First thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2562003&page=1Ok, so knowing I'm not going to discuss legal matters with her, how can/should I interact? Does anything change? Should I continue treating her as a neighbor, validating where it makes sense, being a great dad and GAL?
Also told the attorney she is having an affair, but in no fault state of KS, that will have no baring. Did tell my attorney I didn't want a divorce and want to drag it out, which is what they are looking to do. Said even though KS moves fast, could be 6-9 months down the road. Hopefully enough time.
Rip,
Look..your W pulled out the "rape" accusation and you want want to be nice & validating??! Let's get real here.
I want to reiterate that you need to lay LOW and make yourself scarce with W. Focus on kids, do activities with them, and go to bed when they do. You can read a book in your bedroom.
I reviewed your thread and did a timeline of your interactions with W that I think you need to share with your L tomorrow so she can get a better sense of events that has taken place over the past week.
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April 23: W requested that you work with her L on separation/D paperwork. You decline politely and wanted to have your own L.
W tells you on April 21st that she filed on Monday, April 20th. It is during this same convo that W admits to her A with the OM.
April 26: You gave W the "no OM, not willing to live in an open M" speech which was disrespectful to you and that you would not be friends with her as long as she continues with her A.
You also tell her that you don't want a D, but won't stand in her way. It is then that W reminds you to pick up the paperwork from her L.
You unfriend W on FB. You tell W that you can't be FB friends or friends with her while she's in an A.
April 27: W's L served you with D papers.
You tell W that you have plans this Wednesday (I am assuming tomorrow) and that you won't be back until after work. W gets really angry.
Later on, W went to your room and apologized for getting angry with you. You two apparently smoothed things over.
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Are the ^^ sequence of events accurate when it comes to dates?
You mentioned a while ago about May 8th being a trigger emotionally as it was when you and W renewed your vows. It is now one week away from May 8th.
I do not think that W filing the "rape" charges is coincidence considering that she's probably not happy with hearing your no OM boundary and seeing you taking steps to protect yourself and the family from the OM.
You must tell your L all of this so she's aware of this timetable of events.
Also do not forget the fact that W has lived with you since the so-called "rape" incident without filing charges or acting fearful of you for the past 5 months since BD.
Wonka - that was me speculating. I don't know if she did that. I won't know until tomorrow. My l now thinks she didn't because if she did there should be a protection order or restraining order and there is not.
Timelines are faily accurate. She went to the attorney 4/18, filed 4/20 - was signed by a judge 4/21 and then the separate order was 4/22. These recent events all happened AFTER she did these filing, so they didn't have an impact on it.
Wonka - that was me speculating. I don't know if she did that. I won't know until tomorrow. My l now thinks she didn't because if she did there should be a protection order or restraining order and there is not.
Speculating? So did she or didn't she accuse you?
Don't know what she said and won't know until my attorney talks with hers tomorrow. There's no grounds state on the temporary order.
Sorry for what you are going through Rip! I thought you said she accused you of it. Maybe I misunderstood.
I did, but that was while I was at lawyer and not positive. Still not sure, she may have.
Really freaking out and panicked about this, obviously
Rip,
Try to find your own center. It is your "stinkin' thinkin'" that is causing you to spin.
Tonight, be busy with the kids...maybe go out for a walk after dinner. Help them with their homework. Get busy while laying low so it will distract your mind.
Will do. I understand. This thinking is killing me.
wish there was anything else I can do right now. This waiting and anxiety is killing me
I guess I'm also starting and continuing to accept that she really does feel she wants to move on, but part of me wants to hold out hope because it's hard for me to not stick out the white flag and feel divorce is ineveitable if I don't.
She did everything SAT the 18th, but I'm having to experience it in waves and feels all of the sudden.
Verified with my attorney that she did all the signing and the temporary order for me to vacate on 4/18. That night I confronted her on the accounts and she said she couldn't trust me and had to protect herself. Really overly defensive, but she just finished paperwork asking for these things.
The next Tuesday when she told me she said she hid things from me because she was a chicken and a coward and had to protect her because she didn't know how I would react to the divorce and affair.
All that being said she could have done all of this 100% knee jerk and out of fear. My l told me it's common practice to almost force a person to file first out of fear for what happens if the other one does.
Looking at her actions since then, she's been initiating, even though I keep it short. And this morning she came in to apologize for getting so angry and wanted us to communicate better. That seemed genuine and if she's adamant that she wants me gone and only a matter of time, why do that? Why not just ignore me?
Laying low to its has been easy. She went to her friends and then the boys and I played basketball when she got back. After we were done she went to bed just now. Doesn't even want to spend time in the same room with me, her choice and I can't control that and I won't pursue.
It hurts though. This all feels like it happened so fast and every day brings a new obstacle with less and less connection and conversation between us.
Man, my anxiety is getting to me obviously. I was having a great morning and for the first time since the bomb drop and maybe even before that, I felt good about myself and ok with my situation. Then I meet with my attorney and everything becomes real.
I haven't pursued, have kept low and stayed with the lrt. In fact, we've been in the same room a total of 5 minutes all day and won't see each other tomorrow.
I realize that a big part of me still wants to pursue, out of fear. Fear of getting kicked out, fear of my family being broken up, fear of never having a relationship with her again, fear of the unknown. Interestingly, her being my wife and that loss isn't hurting right now.
What she's done in lying, cheating, etc is making it tough to feel that way about her or want to trust her right now.
I'm missing my friend. I'm missing the connection we had and really I'm hurt that someone could love me and then what seems in a moments notice immediately not and disrespect and hurt me so fast and not care.
I'm missing my friend. I'm missing the connection we had and really I'm hurt that someone could love me and then what seems in a moments notice immediately not and disrespect and hurt me so fast and not care.
Hello Rip,
I can understand why you are so anxious. You have a lot going on now. I pray it all works out for you.
I added the last part of your quote because I think you stated how most, if not all, of the LBS' feel. How does it seemingly unravel without any warning?
Stay strong!
Bob
I'm missing my friend. I'm missing the connection we had and really I'm hurt that someone could love me and then what seems in a moments notice immediately not and disrespect and hurt me so fast and not care.
While my sitch is different then yours, these comments resonate deeply with me.
The emotional ride is drastically up and down.
I wish I could fix this for you, but I can't.
I can only tell you that you are not alone in dealing with these feelings, and the way you are feeling is normal.
I've been using a thought stopping technique of visualizing a huge stop sign when I start heading down unrealistic or negative patterns of thought. Seems to help a little.
Question to the group, really need feedback and suggestions. I've heard the lrt is harder when separated and that to gain respect, I need to not leave my house, she should.
However in my sitch, ww isn't leaving house and legally trying to have me removed. Also she has been stonewalled the last 2-3 days so even in the house we never see/interact with each other and she's still having the om.
If I moved out or am forced to anyway, I almost feel that might be better. It seems like it'd be less stressful for me with no more anxiety about how to interact with her at home or having to be in separate rooms.
But, does it just makes matters worse? Leaving my house seemed like a big no-no on the boards. Would me being away for ww at least give enough breathing space for some of the constant negatives she's clinging on to to disappate?
It seems to be working for pilot, heavy d and a couple others who are separated.
Hi Ripken, I left our home at BD, and I can't say I have any regrets. I couldn't have lived with H whilst he was having an A. And in hindsight, I'm glad that SS hasn't been disrupted with a house move either.
I think if you look at this from a 'saving yourself' perspective, S may well be a good option for you. Will it save or harm your sitch? Who knows - but I wouldn't make that your guiding principle right now - JMHO.
Others may well have different views as many are much more pro-staying than me.
Good luck with whatever you do decide.
Question to the group, really need feedback and suggestions. I've heard the lrt is harder when separated and that to gain respect, I need to not leave my house, she should.
However in my sitch, ww isn't leaving house and legally trying to have me removed. Also she has been stonewalled the last 2-3 days so even in the house we never see/interact with each other and she's still having the om.
If I moved out or am forced to anyway, I almost feel that might be better. It seems like it'd be less stressful for me with no more anxiety about how to interact with her at home or having to be in separate rooms.
But, does it just makes matters worse? Leaving my house seemed like a big no-no on the boards. Would me being away for ww at least give enough breathing space for some of the constant negatives she's clinging on to to disappate?
It seems to be working for pilot, heavy d and a couple others who are separated.
Have you spoken to a lawyer and what does he say to do?
I have and will be talking with her again today. She said it really wouldn't matter either way. I don't want the house, she can't afford the house, so it will be sold either way.
Also, if I fight to stay and she can't take it and she leaves, I'm suck in a house with horrible memories of affairs, etc and that's not healthy for me. I think I need someplace new to process, GAL, etc.
I still have plans of dragging my feet on the divorce, but to temporarily move out, I think would be best.
Another question. I've heard that when the ww asks for a divorce, you should validate my saying, I understand that's what you want and I won't stand in your way. Shows you are respecting her wishes.
Since her wish is for me out of the house, should I take the approach of "I can't do this anymore and I need to leave for me" or "I understand this is what you want and I won't stand in your way"?
I'm guessing the first, because then it shows, I'm dropping her and making a move vs. being a doormat.
Purely from a dealing with an affair standpoint, you should NOT leave the house.
From a legal standpoint, you need to talk to your L about what steps you should take prior to leaving.
From a saving yourself standpoint, please remember what Michelle repeats in the books many many times: YOU MUST HAVE PATIENCE
You should ask yourself "am I doing things based on her actions?" and if the answer is yes, she is in control of you and you need to detach so you can live your own life.
Let me just hit you with the 2x4: You are not thinking clearly right now. Do not make any life changing decisions until you have centered yourself.
How does not leaving the house help with the affair standpoint? Again, if I stay and she can't take it and leaves, I'm left in a house I don't want to stay in anyway - too many bad memories and we'd sell it anyway, even if by some miracle we BOTH decide we want to make things work.
Also, I think it's damn near impossible to think clearly while I'm there. We were separated 3 years ago - I moved out and I felt better. Also, she was able to have time away from me to see that not everything negative is on me.
Michelle also says to try things and evaluate if they are working. I'm not sure with her stonewalling, still having the affair, legally wanting me out and me being overly stressed/anxious that it is working.
As she builds up this resentment with me there, how does it get better?
Please guys, can use all the suggestions and help you have on whether moving out would be ok or good.
If it's based on what helps me be the best me, not sure staying in the place while she disrespects me with the affair and stone walls me is healthy. Space could help me get/remain centered.
If i's about finances, going to have to pay her some $ anyway you slice it. She's not keeping the house and selling it anyway. I don't want it, so staying there only makes those next couple months/year really tough.
If it's about our relationship, not sure how it gets better when we're both triggered by the other constantly, whether that person is there or not.
If it's about the kids, right now, we both are almost competiting on who ges to spend time when, because we don't and can't do it jointly. Seperation would at least have this more black/white.
What are your thoughts? Does it help to move out?
Rip,
If I were you, I'd hold off things until speaking with your L today. You just don't have all of the facts to make educated decisions.
Again, lay low and do your thing.
So, let's say my l says that my ww will drop that and let me stay in the house. Would you still stay?
If she won't drop it and we have to battle for it/go to a hearing, is that worth it?
Toots gave me a reason WHY moving out helped her and the majority of people are saying to stay.
However, not hearing a why. Not saying I'm disagreeing with any point - I'm asking for them.
In some states, leaving the family home can be considered abandonment and might affect your parental custody rights.
Ask your lawyer that specific question.
Even if ww put a temporary order in to have me vacate?
In some states, leaving the family home can be considered abandonment and might affect your parental custody rights.
Ask your lawyer that specific question.
Yes this is what I am concerned about, you have children, and you want to fight for as much custody with them as possible.
Will do. My question is still based on that not having an effect. So, if my attorney says it will make no impact and I can move out if I choose, than what say you, group?
Even if ww put a temporary order in to have me vacate?
That may be why she did it.
You need to protect yourself and your kids.
Will do. My question is still based on that not having an effect. So, if my attorney says it will make no impact and I can move out if I choose, than what say you, group?
That's a big decision and one only you can make.
I would get something in writing first though.
Thanks - Drew. Understand it's my choice, but looking for input. Also very much understand the legal side and talking with my attorney on that.
Assuming there's no problems (won't make decision until verifying that first), what other impact would this have on my relationship with ww? THAT'S what I need help with.
Wouldn't moving out be better stress/anxiety/resentment wise so she actually cares enough to initiate and miss me? Allows me to go dark.
Wouldn't moving out be better stress/anxiety/resentment wise so she actually cares enough to initiate and miss me? Allows me to go dark.
Rip my friend,
Even if you find out it's okay from your L to leave, my advice is not to.
Sandi has stated many times that women respect a man with inner-strength. That includes being decisive, standing up to your W and refusing to be a doormat.
What do others think? Rip is in a real bind.
Bob
Even if you find out it's okay from your L to leave, my advice is not to.
Sandi has stated many times that women respect a man with inner-strength. That includes being decisive, standing up to your W and refusing to be a doormat.
Bob is giving you great advice!
Thanks - Drew. Understand it's my choice, but looking for input. Also very much understand the legal side and talking with my attorney on that.
Assuming there's no problems (won't make decision until verifying that first), what other impact would this have on my relationship with ww? THAT'S what I need help with.
Wouldn't moving out be better stress/anxiety/resentment wise so she actually cares enough to initiate and miss me? Allows me to go dark.
My DB coach told me that MWD prefers the couple not to S so that wayward spouse would have more access to the positive changes LBS is making. In my sitch however, while my W did seem to initially miss me more when she moved out, it was much more helpful to my own mindset and wellbeing with her out of the house. And remember, even though I know it's hard, decisions shouldn't be made based on how you think it could impact your W. Instead, focus on what's best for you and your kids.
Even if you find out it's okay from your L to leave, my advice is not to.
Sandi has stated many times that women respect a man with inner-strength. That includes being decisive, standing up to your W and refusing to be a doormat.
Bob is giving you great advice!
Cadet, aww shucks....thank you.
Bob
In some states, leaving the family home can be considered abandonment and might affect your parental custody rights.
Can you explain your lawyer's position on this? In my state and with the judge I'll be seeing for the BD, this absolutely affects who gets primary custody.
In my case, it's working out that I'll be the primary care giver. Not my STBXW. This matters in the divorce a lot. Especially if you have to fight for custody.
I stayed in the house and she moved out to a town about 25 minutes away. So my S7 would have to change schools, loose friends, etc. The judge won't appreciate that if he gave the STBXW physical custody.
You need to understand/research what the judge typically does. How many times has your lawyer been to that judge? How successful have they been in winning their position?
Ok, met with my attorney. She confirmed in the state of KS, me moving out will 100% have no baring on child custody, how much I'm entitled to, my stake in the house, etc. The courts will not view it as a negative - at all. Also said she would get a temporary parental agreement that mirrors what ww already put in she wants - 50/50 split and we can work out finances owed during the divorce/separation period.
Also, spoke with my DB Coach and she said that me moving out was the best thing for me. Said it would give me a chance to GAL and not be triggered every day in the house. Also said my game plan is to go dark vs. LRT and see how that helps.
Will it have a positive effect on our R? No idea. But, it feels like staying in the house just to spite her or force her to see positive changes in me isn't working either.
I can have the conversation that I'm moving out for me and need time to process things and be the best thing for me. That will ALSO imply the disrespect and OM boundary I already gave Sunday.
Ok, met with my attorney. She confirmed in the state of KS, me moving out will 100% have no baring on child custody, how much I'm entitled to, my stake in the house, etc. The courts will not view it as a negative - at all. Also said she would get a temporary parental agreement that mirrors what ww already put in she wants - 50/50 split and we can work out finances owed during the divorce/separation period.
Also, spoke with my DB Coach and she said that me moving out was the best thing for me. Said it would give me a chance to GAL and not be triggered every day in the house. Also said my game plan is to go dark vs. LRT and see how that helps.
Will it have a positive effect on our R? No idea. But, it feels like staying in the house just to spite her or force her to see positive changes in me isn't working either.
I can have the conversation that I'm moving out for me and need time to process things and be the best thing for me. That will ALSO imply the disrespect and OM boundary I already gave Sunday.
Good luck! I think this will be good for YOU. Hang in there, Rip!
Thanks Defacto. Pilot, Wonka, Sandi, Heavy D, any other feedback, suggestions?
I know this is a decision I need to make, but somehow it feels like it goes against DB, even though my DB coach just confirmed this is prob the best move.
If I do this, is there a script or way to have that convo with the WW?
If I do this, is there a script or way to have that convo with the WW?
Hi Rip,
That's an excellent question. Vets, any ideas for our friend?
Bob
Just that, at this point especially:
Actions speak louder than words.
Is this where the "After the last resort" technique would come into play? Even after having the "i dont' want a divorce/no open marriage" talk last week?
I would just make the arrangements and tell her - W, I have rented a flat and will be moving out on X date. I can't live like this any longer. We need to talk about how we will arrange things to best suit the kids when we have separated. I propose 'this' in terms of finances (these will presumably cover household essentials and child stuff only..)
I wouldn't go into a big thing about - I'm doing this because I won't live in an open M, but I don't want to D. I think the fewer R words the better (IMHO - Just do it...and only deal with practical implications.)
I can do that - however, that would be outlined in a separation agreement that our attorneys would draw up. Pretty much already in place based on how she filed. But, my attorney would counter with me paying much less $$ than she's asking for
So talked with my attorney. WW is NOT accusing or saying rape or safety concerns. Was just a general "would be easier" if I was out of the house and she did it at time of filing before telling me of divorce or affair and was scared how I would react.
Her L is saying she may be open to having me stay or she might want to leave herself. I don't want to be in that house anymore, so I will have convo with WW tonight of my decision.
Just glad I don't have to worry about her accusing me of something that didn't happen and how messy that could have been. Not sure any relationship with her would have been able to recover from that.
So talked with my attorney. WW is NOT accusing or saying rape or safety concerns. Was just a general "would be easier" if I was out of the house and she did it at time of filing before telling me of divorce or affair and was scared how I would react.
Her L is saying she may be open to having me stay or she might want to leave herself. I don't want to be in that house anymore, so I will have convo with WW tonight of my decision.
Of course it would be easier for HER!
I really think she should leave.
If she leaves, that's the worst thing for me. I don't want the house, I don't want the triggers, the extra cost, the location, the memories/hurt, etc. While she is out enjoying life in a new place, with a fresh start and OM.
She can sit and deal with everything in that house. I'm using the move and new place to GAL!
So you've decided for sure to move out?
My wife is also pushing the "Boy it'd be easier if you'd leave already..." bit too.
Like you, I don't want the house (although for different reasons) so I recognize that leaving will eventually happen for me, but I'm personally not in any hurry to do it.
I'm conflicted about whether staying in the house is better or worse for the possibility of future reconciliation. I'm inclined to think it's better to stay.
That's what everyone is saying but I just don't see how. Plus she's not of the opinion of "it'd be easier if u move out". It's pretty much only one of us is going to live here, her or me and I don't want to. Doesn't look like staying in the same house is really an option at this point. So I'm to understand that me staying and being stuck in a place I don't want while she chooses and gets what she wants in freedom and a new place is better than me leaving because it commands more respect?
I don't get that. I think it's just as much if not more respect to say I can't take this and need to do what's best for me and make the decision and take control to leave.
Also if she has the house she'll be more financial strapped and have more responsibilities with property you own than renting a place. Another way for her to see grass isn't always greener.
Rip,
I always tell newbies to STAY in the MBR and the house because the W'AS is the one who is unhappy and not force you out of the house because they're unhappy. It's incredibly unfair to the LBS. It should be on THEM to move out if they're "stressed" out....it is their problem, not yours.
Wonka, I get it. However, even if we do reconcile, I don't know how I can do it in that house. Too many bad memories and I'm now moving out and separating for the second time.
I really didn't even want to start over when we reconciled the first time in the house, but it was something she wanted so I made it work.
Me being in a place I never wanted seems more unfair to me. Besides, I'm ALSO stressed out - not just her.
Signed the lease and told my ww I'm moving out 5/23. At first she was pissed thinking I would leave her with no money each month and she would be screwed. That can't be the case as I will have to compensate her something. She wanted to have a conversation that it's not easy for her to not have me wanting to be her friend and have little to no interaction. I told her every time I slip into one of those modes because it feels comfortable, I hate myself and wonder why I didn't have enough self respect to back down and move on.
We did agree to communicate more on finances, the separation and get the boys in counseling and how to talk to them. Custody is worked out well, so that was positive and did it without fighting.
However, she still is doing her affair, even at the cost of no relationship with me and I am starting to be less anxious about it. My indifference towards her and who/what she does is growing.
She also said my no interaction with her has been tough, but she's been trying to give me space, imagine that.
That's while we've been in the same house. I wonder how she'll feel when I go completely dark on her in a couple weeks
The mind of the wayward spouse is so absurd...
Rip,
I read through your threads. Sorry you are going through this. I am also sorry how fast things have been moving. Are you sure you want to move out? I know you have bad memories and triggers in that house, but you may be able to have it both ways: Ask your W to leave (as Wonka suggested), remain in the house for now, THEN move somewhere else on your own terms.
It kills me how the WW has so much time to prepare and plan (e.g. meet with L and think about D), and the LBS is completely blindsided. Your sitch is so new, and you have been through so much already. Considering all this, you are doing great. Keep it up.
RAI
Thanks. I'm positive I want to move out and have no desire to stay in the house. Ironically me making the decision to move out is on my own terms as she wanted me to stay until the house was sold. We'll see what happens after the move out and while I go dark. Still not sure how to interact with her and have to take it day by day. Can't be a dick but can't be a friend. Moving out will be a lot easier where I can have my head cleared and enjoy getting a life.
If anything ever does ge better for us down the road I know we'd need a fresh start away from the house anyway. She asked me if I contacted any real estate agent and I told her no. I'm not going to do any of that work for her, she can handle that
Also it will just make the ability to gal easier as there will be days and weekends without the kids. When I have been gal and not thinking about her and om its been great. Im really starting to get to a point where I feel over time I can evaluate what I really want and if my ww is really someone I can ever trust again. Righ now I'm constantly torn by hurt and still loving her
what will your co-parenting plan look like? What are your expectations for custody in the future? Moving out can affect this, no?
RAI
No. Actually it can't. Already reviewed with my attorney and the temporary order she filed had custody plans outlined which will also set a precedent for future. It's 100% 50/50. We have 2 weekdays and alternate weekends, but also weekdays. Example: I have them Monday Tuesday. She has them Wednesday Thursday. I have them Friday Saturday Sunday. The next week is reversed. We both agree to that and that is what filed.
As far as child support and payments, I am fine with paying everything for the boys since is do that now. That would and should also reduce any alimony she is wanting, but that's a separate issue and not about co parenting.
When it comes to the boys I believe and never doubt we can put our [censored] aside to focus on them because we both agree they deserve that and they are innocent. They deserve to have a loving mom and loving dad and not each other putting the other one down, which also wouldn't happen.
Ugh. Thought I was doing ok and detaching. Growing more indifferent towards what she was doing. However, she has been working out now and told me she has plans after work. NOT going out with her best friend, but "plans".
This is why moving out is for me. It will allow me to focus on me and my boys, without having seemingly small interactions cripple me, even momentarily.
I cannot go dark in the same house and I cannot block her our in the same house. I will be able to as I move on.
So hard to do this neighbor stuff. It's not me. It's easier to be angry and treat her like [censored] because she's hurt me but I know that solves nothing. And I can't be friends or nice because that's my boundary. So it's just distance and awkwardness. I don't know how I lived like this for so long.
However, she has been working out now and told me she has plans after work. NOT going out with her best friend, but "plans".
Isn't it crazy how the littlest things can cause you to have such massive backslides on attachment?
Then sometimes the really super huge big things that should trigger you, don't.....
Yeah. How are things going for you Winhamm? Separated in the same house? Not sure how you're doing it. I obviously couldn't.
Rip,
I am going through exact same thing. We are under the same roof and there are so many triggers. Shortly after BD, my W could not understand why I would get so upset when I would see OM or his car or something resembling his car etc... - goes with the whole "lack of remorse" thing. She never understood the hypervigilance and PTSD I experienced. At the time I told her when I was triggering. Now I have no one with whom to share this information, so I just suck it up and keep it to myself.
OM used to do our yard. Yesterday, new mulch was laid down. I can't help bust wonder if OM did it. Crazy, no?
RAI
It's not crazy. I guess I'm just not sure how people can do it, living in the same house, while they still choose to disrespect you and continue with the affair. Yes, on paper, they get to see your changes and maybe want to come back, but I don't see how that's likely.
Also, it just made me more angry/upset/hurt and almost start to build resentment seeing that. Sandi continues to talk about the WW needing a "loss" to get out of the fog. How does the loss come if you don't move out/on? How can you have enough sanity and piece of mind to stay pleasant and keep the road paved, if you live in it and with it everyday. "It" being the hurt, the affair, the lack of remorse, etc.
Sometimes, you need to separate yourself from the situation, to heal, before you can live in it again and be ok.
This seems very black/white in my case. Not sure why there seemed to be so much flack on my moving out. Most people seemed to be of the stance of staying in the house or having her leave.
Both options just didn't work for me. More power to you and winhamm, RAI!
Hi Ripken, glad you have a moving date - the 23rd is not long away and will soon come around. The prevailing advice on the boards is 'don't move' but that isn't for everyone.
I didn't feel able to stay in our house after BD as you know - and it has been the best thing for me (emotionally) to move out. I have no idea how people manage to tolerate an ongoing A scenario in the same house. I couldn't do it. As for the impact on our sitch - well who knows. But you posted, got lots of input and followed your heart with your decision. Best not to look back now, only forward and I hope the move goes well.
Take care :-)
Indeed (as I must have posted far too many times) my sitch is different but theres no way I'd have been able to make the changes in myself I did if w and I hadnt been in different places.
Yes, moving out in an owned property, or with kids involved is often a very bad idea for future options but sometimes detachment, self improvement and your own sanity come first. Review your options by all means but then do what is going to be best for everyone involved including yourself.
Positive thoughts to you, keep on keeping on.
Edz
Rip,
So hard to do this neighbor stuff. It's not me. It's easier to be angry and treat her like [censored] because she's hurt me but I know that solves nothing. And I can't be friends or nice because that's my boundary. So it's just distance and awkwardness. I don't know how I lived like this for so long.
I hear you, buddy. Ditto, ditto, and ditto.
You seem to be very at peace with your decision to move out. You have a plan in place, too. While no one would envy our sitch, you should take pride in the fact that you are in control of the things you can control and are not sweating the things you can't. That is a (relatively) admirable position to be in. One from which I hope to draw inspiration. I wish you a lot of luck, friend.
RAI
Rai - thanks. I wish I could constantly feel that way and maybe in time I will. All I know is right now, it's easier when we are apart. VERY similar to the feeling I have no longer being FB friends. I can use facebook daily and never have to worry or be anxious about who she's talking to or what she's up to - out of sight, out of mind.
I can live my life, GAL and do all the 180s I want. Taking back control or some feeling of it, I've found to be very cathartic.
I was not even on FB before BD. I signed up for an account pretty recently so I could reengage with old friends - GAL. But one of the first things I did was block W and anyone having to do with her.
The downside is that you see the best side of everyone. Everyone (with some exception) looks so happy on FB. It is definitely not a reflection of reality. It is somewhat of a downer for me.
Onward with the catharsis!
RAI
Thanks! 23rd can't get here fast enough. Knowing she's out with om doing God knows what and then coming back here whenever she feels like as if nothing is wrong. It makes me absolutely sick.
No matter how hurt and lost she see felt in our relationship I never did anything this malatious and cold. I have no idea how to keep the road back paved easily. Every aspect of me wants to burn the bridge.
No matter how hurt and lost she see felt in our relationship I never did anything this malatious and cold. I have no idea how to keep the road back paved easily. Every aspect of me wants to burn the bridge.
Many of us sat and dwelled on the very same thought. This is not something you can find an answer for. All you can do is give her space and detach. Right now she is so far detached from you that she has zero thought as to how her actions are affecting you. Just try and remember, her actions are NOT done with the intent to hurt you. Her actions are completely done to satisfy whatever she feels she wants. She is going to be selfish right now and give ZERO thought as to how her actions affect anyone else. In time, she will begin to reflect. It is just not going to happen right now. How well you think you treated her in the past is not important to her right now. Its not even on her radar. Your job is to OVER TIME remind her through actions.
Pilot,
Thanks for that. It makes complete sense. I know I'm struggling with how long this has been going on - the lying, the cheating, the detachment, etc.
I realize now, it's even longer than what she had said and looking back, there's probably been several other instances she's lied to me. I agree, this is not something I can find an answer for and maybe never will.
I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be any movement. When I read Sandi's posts about the WW and the fog, I thought the loss of our marriage and our relationship would lift the fog maybe not instantly, but soon. The fog is still there and no sign of it ever going away.
You say in time, she will begin to reflect. While that makes sense, it doesn't feel like that will ever happen. The longer time goes on, the more hardened my heart becomes towards her and I battle daily trying not to feed into it.
Going away this weekend couldn't have come at a better time. Tomorrow is our 11/14 anniversary and I fly out in the morning. Hard to understand how that doesn't register with her or seem to care.
That's another thing. I am understanding how over time, I could stay so angry and hurt that I could be indifferent and not care anything about her. That I could be mean and want to take things out on her for maybe the rest of my life.
But, that's apparently not where she is. Pilot, you say she's selfish and not done with intent to hurt. I have no idea how any person gets to a point where they can do those thins without intent. I do understand how you can get to a point where you do it out of intent.
Today is our anniversary and I'm flying out to New Orleans for the weekend, couldn't stay. As she's leaving for work I had thought or hoped she'd say something like goodbye or have a safe trip - expectations.
She comes into the room and wakes me up. Only to ask me to take out the trash and then leaves.
Also last night I got email from her lawyer. Ww and I spoke Sunday and agreed we needed to communicate more and be more open throughout the process. However she went Wednesday and had her attorney work up a proposal in an effort to expedite the divorce proceedings and never told me. 3 days after suggesting we talk more she completely does the opposite.
I never brought it up to her and won't. Will have all communication go through my lawyer. Also will continue to drag out the divorce. Not sure if it will have any impact on her like ending the affair, reconsidering things, etc. however, I know I need the extra time for me to get used to being separated, gal and process everything.
Everyone says she's not herself and these things she does or doesn't do are not intentional. But she says she is and is finally being her. Either way, I'm no longer sure if who she is or will be is someone that in can be happy with anymore.
Had a blast in New Orleans with one of my best friends. Coming back is tough though. Having to come back to Mother's Day and not celebrate it, realizing there's no one missing me at the house, no one I have to call if the flight gets delayed, etc. I miss the companionship and the team we used to feel like. That's all gone and no idea if it will ever come back.
Getting away is fun and was a great time. Coming back is really tough.
Loneliness is hitting me hard. That and being very anxious about what I'll be walking into. My ww has had zero contact with me and doesn't seem to phase her one bit. It kills me. Not sure what I can do now for today.
Coming back from a trip but had a lot of moments where ww and our sitch was the only thing I could think of. Have a meeting wih lawyer tomorrow and in a couple weeks I move out.
I was looking forward to that but today I'm worried all of my days will feel this Lonley. I'm not sure I can handle it
Rip,
I know how hard this is hitting you right now.
What I try to do when everything hurts is tell myself (sometimes out loud) that now is the time to work on me. And everything else is out of my control.
Maybe this will help. Maybe not. Hang in there!
Hi Ripken - you can do this. We all have our moments of doubt - and some are big moments I know! But you've made this plan and now you just need to make it work.
So, instead of thinking - I'm not sure I can handle it - why not think - what do I need to do to handle this - and make some plans.
I moved from our marital home straight in with my parents. And when I got my own place, it was a bit strange (and lonely) at first. Being late November didn't help much...
But, if you build some new routines, you'll do just fine. Make sure you have enough GAL going on. And when you are 'home alone' maybe cook yourself something nice, put the music on, or plan to watch something nice on TV. And enjoy being removed from the 'mess.' Of course you'll miss your W, but there will be things you don't miss too. Enjoy those..
You're going to be just fine, okay?
Former LBH'S have said the loneliness passes, once you get through the grieving stages. Every day will not be a repeat of today.
Do you really want to help yourself get out of the funk today? Make some elderly mother feel better today. Maybe a mother who has a son/daughter in the military, or a mother who is in the nursing home and forgotten. Know who really feels like a misfit on this day? The woman who was not blessed with a child. And a real challenge would be a mother who has lost her only child. To recognize these precious ladies can mean so much to them. Just a minute or two of your time could lift their hearts and believe someone cares.
There are many people hurting today who cannot celebrate with their mother. But you know what we can do? We can adopt a mom for this one day, at least, to give her a little special attention.
Defacto, toots, thank u. Sometimes I feel like this board is all I have when I'm feeling Lonley. The gal activities are nice but can't cover all the available time. I'll actually come on and refresh the screen at times to see if anyone responded with words of encouragement or wisdom.
Thanks for everything. This is so hard and I know I'm preaching to the choir. It helps!
Sandi thanks for the suggestion. Was able to have lunch with my own mother today. That was nice but still tough.
I know there's no way to speed through the grieving process, but what recommendations does anyone have to help as I go through it? Anything to read?
I have a ic, I come here, db coach no longer seems to make sense. I'm trying to gal and have plans wed. Anything else I can do?
I saw a great movie last weekend (Ex Machina). Highly recommend it. It even felt empowering to go see it by myself.
Yeah. I may need to look into more movies or things by myself. Any other resources or things you guys think will help? I appreciate all the suggestions. It's just really reassuring to know I'm not alone
When you move out, are you taking the kids with you?
I am, but we'll have them exactly 50/50. So that will be nice when I have them. Came back to the house. On the way talked with sister in law who really disapproves of ww and affair. She told me she talked with ww yesterday and grilled her about affair and her actions. We got defensive and angry. Told her that she was just having fun and enjoying herself. This [censored] and doesn't appear she's ever getting out of the fog.
I just don't see her caring about me or if anything does or doesn't happen. I miss her so much, even when I'm in the same room with her. It's Mother's Day and I feel like an outsider in my own home with my kids.
On the way talked with sister in law who really disapproves of ww and affair. She told me she talked with ww yesterday and grilled her about affair and her actions. We got defensive and angry. Told her that she was just having fun and enjoying herself. This [censored] and doesn't appear she's ever getting out of the fog
It's encouraging to hear that at least someone is trying to give your wife some good advice. Maybe some day, along with your own changes, it will sink in for her.
Thanks. Both my sisters in law are 100% supportive of me and our marriage. The only problem is that she blocks them out and only surrounds herself with new people that don't know me and support her affair.
She's still in the fog and may never come out. I miss her and today is one of those tough days
She's still in the fog and may never come out. I miss her and today is one of those tough days
Hi Rip,
It's good to see you've been getting support from fellow DB'ers. I hope that tomorrow will be a much better day for you.
I am going to dedicate a prayer to you as soon as I press the 'submit' button to this post.
Keep your chin up.
Your friend,
Bob
Bob - thanks! The night got easier, here's what happened:
-I came home and talked with ww about what she did with the boys while I was away, they went to the park and out for lunch.
-ww showed me some of the Mother's Day gifts our youngest made for her and thanked me for buying the locket from the boys for her. She said it was beautiful and she started to cry. I told her that when it comes to her being a mom, she's an amazing mom. I wished her a happy Mother's Day and told her I never question that. I can always appreciate her being a great mom to our kids and that part is easy.
-she told me she felt the same way about me as a dad. Said early on in our relationship, I wasn't always the best, but she's proud of how much I've grown and turned into an outstanding dad. She said I've really stepped it up and been there for our kids and she never wants me to question that. I told her I have doubts and questions about a lot of things and that comes up. She told me I shouldn't ever question that.
It was a great exchange and started to get a little sad because I missed seeing affection and happiness when she would look at me like she did tonite, even if it was in regards to us being co parents and nothing more.
We ended the night by watching a movie together with the boys. I enjoyed that and the boys did to. Now I'm second guessing if I just allowed her to cake eat.
I have no idea if it was a good thing because my anxiety needed a break and she was allowed to see and experience good, positive interactions with me or if it was bad because I was weak and had more friend interactions with her tonite and not neighborly.
I don't want to go back on my boundary and have her feel like we can be friends while she has an affair, like that's ok. But I can't keep telling her that (I haven't since I gave her the boundary) because she already knows.
The second guessing and over analyzing is tough.
I don't want to go back on my boundary and have her feel like we can be friends while she has an affair, like that's ok. But I can't keep telling her that (I haven't since I gave her the boundary) because she already knows.
The second guessing and over analyzing is tough.
Hi Rip,
You're welcome! I prayed for you right after I pressed the submit button.
I understand why you would feel confused and therefore second guess yourself. You may have a better handle on this than you think. It is very good that you don't keep telling her about the boundary you set. As you wrote, she already knows. If you keep bringing it up, it will most likely push her further away from you.
For now, try to focus on your boys and the fact that they had a good time tonight.
What do others think?
Keep your chin up, okay??
Bob
The second guessing and over analyzing is tough.
Ain't that the truth?
Rip,
I'm glad your day was salvaged. I know it felt good to do something nice for your W. As far as cake eating, it might be. But rest assured, if there ever was a day to get a pass, yesterday was it. I'm sort of struggling with the same thing in my sitch. Keep it up, you've come a long way, Rip!
Defacto, what helps you? I really only have 2 more weeks before I move out. Which is starting to give me some anxiety. It will be nice to be on my own and not have to live with the ww while the affair is in full force and not have to be triggered my phone calls, texts and her "plans" as she leaves for the night.
However, I'm really worried and scared that I'll be incredibly lonely and that the reality will continue to set in that she's never coming back. I know I can't control that, but so many on this board still hold out hope the 2-3 years down the road the path is paved and she may reconsider.
How does that hope not turn into attachment? I can't imagine being able to endure this pain for 2-3 more months, let alone 2-3 years.
Rip,
I really want to put some thought into this. I will reply more later.
Edit - start a new thread - Cadet
Rip
I know - so hard to think about 2-3 years down the road and the what if's that could happen.
I try not to go there becuase I could honestly drive myelf bonkers overthinking things. I focus on what I have to do NOW. I have a plan for the future of course but it's pretty loose.
As you and I know both know, we have zero control over our WW and just have to accept it. It blows but there it is.
I hope your move out goes smoothly and keep DB man.