Good morning, all! Last night D12 had a basketball game, and H and I went to get a drink after. We had nice conversation, and then I dropped him back at his place. He kissed me when he got out of the car. Happy Anniversary to me.
Regular non-25th-anniversary days will now resume.
So much for "nothing at all physically to back up the booty texts"........
Now I am going to pry. Was the kiss confusing? Exciting? Arousing?
I ask that because I am curious how it has effected you.
So much for "nothing at all physically to back up the booty texts"........
Now I am going to pry. Was the kiss confusing? Exciting? Arousing?
I ask that because I am curious how it has effected you.
Hi bdub!
The kiss was easy. He's the only guy I've been with for 27 years, it's all I know.
It was flattering. A sexy guy wanted to kiss me.
There was a slight bit of a power rush, I could have allowed the kiss or denied it, my choice. I could have had more, I turned it down.
I did not feel any hope or expectation, it doesn't change anything. After all, we slept together for 7 months between BD and S -- he moved anyway.
I think that covers it.
It is in his kiss as they say, and in yours not so much.
Good for you, now he is plan c!
V
Hey V!
We went from kissing on Tuesday, to NC on Wednesday, to almost-NC today except for one exchange of kid-schedule emails. And I'm fine with all of that.
Well flirty stuff!
Wholeheartly approve of ego boosting flirting as I know you have no expectations and this is no game.
In fact the take it or leave it, no rather not thank you, means RPP is detatching
V
Good morning, all! I have nearly zero to say about my sich, but just wanted to check in anyway. The last two days with H have been either NC or almost NC.
I have a busy weekend planned, almost all of it with D12. We have a cooking class tomorrow morning, and a school carnival on Sunday afternoon. S19 is still home so I'll try to spend time with him, too. Today I'm going to lunch with the girls from the church office.
Wishing everyone a good day!
I'm with V, I see a lot more detachment recently.
That is a good thing for you and for your M.
I'm with V, I see a lot more detachment recently.
That is a good thing for you and for your M.
I agree on perhaps I'm more detached. And maybe that's a good thing for me. But it seems to be the kiss of death for the M. He doesn't want it, I want it less and less every day. Who is left fighting for us? No one.
Good morning DB-ers! Last night D12 spent the night at a friends house, D17 had a babysitting job, and S19 had dinner with his girlfriend. I went to a local Thai restaurant with a meet-up group, and had a nice time.
Yesterday was NC with H. Seems he kissed and ran.
I'm off to a cooking class with D12 this morning. Hope everyone has a nice start to the weekend.
I hear you, rpp! At some point we really do drop the rope. I had a lunch meeting with my H yesterday to fill in the affidavit, and I had not a shred of attraction for him -- not in how he looked or who he was as a person. He was perfectly amicable, and we were able to laugh a bit and talk about D14, but he is just no longer my husband (even though we're still married). The paperwork is just the logistics.
The flowers and kiss thing are, I think, weird. What is that about?
My H gave me flowers and champagne a while back (after my scary dr. appointment last fall). They were to assuage his guilt. They didn't mean anything to me. He knows better than to try to kiss me. I am not open to that. I don't even hug him anymore, and I don't want him to touch me. I don't say those things to him though.
Because of his actions, he no longer has access to me -- either physically or emotionally. I can do the friendly banter with him, but no deep access to thoughts.
Why, thank you, V! I have been keeping busy, that's for sure. Tonight I'm going to a street art/music festival with a friend.
I hear you, rpp! At some point we really do drop the rope.
I know. It's just a shame that someone I've talked to every day for 27 years is now off-limits to me. That's just stupid.
The flowers and kiss thing are, I think, weird. What is that about?
I have no clue. My gut tells me that it's his way of keeping me active as Plan B. But I actually don't know that for sure. In one of our few pretend MC sessions, MC asked him how committed he was to the M. He said 10%. She asked why he didn't just D me now, and his answer was fairly incoherent. He didn't have a reason, really, and I think he's still in that mode. Just doesn't want to give me up totally, when he can string me along with 10% instead. Mindreading, I know.
Are you letting him string you along? I mean, do you give him the impression that you are okay with being the backup plan? I'm not judging at all, just wondering how you feel about that. Is that acceptable to you?
I think 10% just means he has doubts, regrets, etc.
I'd assume all WAS's wish it could be different. They wish the consequences weren't so devastating. They wish they had the marriage they originally thought they were going to have. The wish they didn't have to give up on their dreams. They wish they didn't have to be hurt and hurt others. So they have regrets. And they still have feelings for the LBS so they can truthfully say there is "part of them" that isn't sure.
But I don't see it that way. I look at actions, not words. Someone is either 100% in and they are resolved to stay in their M and work on it, and they become 100% out when they leave. Everyone has emotions. It's actions that count. My dad's favorite saying is "The road to hell is paved with good intention"...
Are you letting him string you along? I mean, do you give him the impression that you are okay with being the backup plan? I'm not judging at all, just wondering how you feel about that. Is that acceptable to you?
I certainly don't feel like I'm giving the impression that I'm ok with being the backup. I've ignored the booty calls, don't initiate contact other than kids and house when necessary. He knows I go out and am not moping at home. The kiss was an isolated anniversary incident. I do act friendly and we continue to do things as a family. Hard to say how he interprets that.
Zeus, I'm with you on the actions. If H asked to move home right now I'd say no because he hasn't shown me that he's interested. He could bed and plead but if his actions don't back that up I would know it isn't real.
Bed and plead. Loving this RPP.
V
Words are cheap, V. My next man is going to need to be a man of action.
In other news, street festivals are not that much fun in the rain.
My GAL last night was not as much fun as I'd hoped, since the rain really put a damper on things. But at least I had dinner out with a friend.
Yesterday was NC with H, which set a record for two NC days in a row. And made it three of the last four. I think its weird to live with someone 27 years and then suddenly not have anything to say.
rppfl, I'm sure there is lots that you'd *like* to say to your H but can't. You impress me with how evenly you handled the flowers, kiss, then no contact behavior of your H. You seem to have a good sense of detachment in not having expectations about his actions. Good for you!
Thanks Ahoy. I do try to stay the same no matter what he does. And I think I manage that pretty well.
It's just the little things I miss. Having someone to tell who I ran into at the grocery, what I heard on NPR, what the dr said, something I tried at the new restaurant. That's what I think is so useless, having to give that up. I guess he already has someone else to talk about those things with, something I should be keeping in mind.
I hear you. When at a movie today with D14, I could vividly imagine my H there, as he was in old times, holding my hand, and then us discussing it all together as a family. That will never be again, and that is something worth mourning. But I did have friends there, and we could talk about it. And that helps. It's not the same, but we have to feel complete within ourselves to fully heal, I suppose.
Today was s good day, kind of busy. Church this morning, D12's school carnival all afternoon, and a basketball game tonight. I saw H at church, very briefly at the carnival, and then we texted some kid schedule things this evening. I'm fully prepared for NC to resume tomorrow. And as stupid as I think it is, that's the way it is apparently.
we have to feel complete within ourselves to fully heal, I suppose.
I know this is true. And I am feeling more at peace with myself lately than I have in a long time.
Are you letting him string you along? I mean, do you give him the impression that you are okay with being the backup plan? I'm not judging at all, just wondering how you feel about that. Is that acceptable to you?
I certainly don't feel like I'm giving the impression that I'm ok with being the backup. I've ignored the booty calls, don't initiate contact other than kids and house when necessary. He knows I go out and am not moping at home. The kiss was an isolated anniversary incident. I do act friendly and we continue to do things as a family. Hard to say how he interprets that.
You mentioned earlier that it was a kiss from a sexy guy. What is your definition of sexy?
I'm reminded of a meme (back before the word meme) of a sexy guy (or woman) with the caption "No matter how good they look someone, somewhere is tired of their sh!t!"
Where are your feelings in all this? I'm talking gut level reactions, not what you think you should feel. Dig around, see what surfaces. I think you've buried them so deep for so long, possibly explained them away, that you don't recognize them.
Hi Labug!
You mentioned earlier that it was a kiss from a sexy guy. What is your definition of sexy?
I was using the word sexy as in physically attractive. He is. Still. I hear your point about sexy being more than physical. And when I'm out and I look around at guys, there are non-physical things that I find a real turn-off. But I just do think my H is sexy.
Where are your feelings in all this? I'm talking gut level reactions, not what you think you should feel. Dig around, see what surfaces. I think you've buried them so deep for so long, possibly explained them away, that you don't recognize them.
I really was being honesty earlier in my answer to bdub:
The kiss was easy. He's the only guy I've been with for 27 years, it's all I know.
It was flattering. A sexy guy wanted to kiss me.
There was a slight bit of a power rush, I could have allowed the kiss or denied it, my choice. I could have had more, I turned it down.
I did not feel any hope or expectation, it doesn't change anything.
And again, I totally hear your point about me suppressing my emotions. That's true. I did that for a lot of years, and I do acknowledge that I'm perhaps out of practice. So I'll sit with this one a while more and see if anything else pops up.
But even if every word of the above turns out to be genuine for me, that doesn't mean I'm excusing how he's treated me over the years, or how he's acting now. Wait...I guess that does conflict with sexy, how could I consider verbal belittling sexy?
Hmmmm.....ok, now I"m getting there. Let me take a short commercial break......
OK, but what if H *really is* smart, sexy, kind, funny, and tried to love me as best as he could but I screwed it up?
Yes.....I know that isn't entirely true. But I'm still there in my head sometimes. Sexy H on a pedestal, RPP can't live up to the standard.
When am I going to get past this?
Keep going, rpp. The commercial break will be worthwhile.
rppfl -- if someone makes you feel like you are not living up to their standard, then that is not a healthy relationship. Sexy does not equal a good or worthwhile long-term partner. Because sexy doesn't get the bills paid, the dishes washed, does not drive you to the hospital, etc. It makes me sad to hear you think that he is this amazing guy, and you just weren't good enough for him. Frankly, because of his actions, I think you are the much better person in this equation. And he frankly does not live up to my moral standards. Sexy fades. Morals shouldn't. Just sayin'
RPP
Do you mean sexy as in whooooar (liam) or attractive (cheeeese cake or is it beef cake)?
In which ways are you measuring yourself against H? Looks, personality, parenthood, the ability to count chickens, the ability to turn heads?
You may like V have a shadow character V calls her Plain Vanilla.
Sexy is as sexy does RPP, look at Barbara Striesand or Bette Midler. What sexy ladies. Flirty funny and their own women.
Sexy is what is inside, at any age. Any lady with Victoria's Secret naughtiest is sassy in my book.
V
rppfl -- if someone makes you feel like you are not living up to their standard, then that is not a healthy relationship.
I know this with my head, Ahoy. But sometimes I still fall back into believing I'm not good enough for H. You know what his two main complaints were? 1. I have, at times in our M, been overweight. His complaint wasn't that I am fat now, but that over the past 20 years of birthing his children, I was not always thin. And that's true. 2. My closet, has been, in the past, messy. And that's true also. But we didn't share a closet.
And here's the crazy part. As stupid as those "reasons" sound, I deep down thought that there was something to it, that he wanted out because I wasn't perfect enough. And I can read that with my head and think how utterly stupid that is, but somehow it's just ingrained. I wasn't pretty enough, I wasn't a good enough housekeeper (with three kids and a full time job and no help from him or anyone else). Deep down inside I still wonder if it's really all my fault.
Do you mean sexy as in whooooar (liam) or attractive (cheeeese cake or is it beef cake)?
In which ways are you measuring yourself against H? Looks, personality, parenthood, the ability to count chickens, the ability to turn heads?
V, I don't share your affinity for Liam, but I just think H is really good-looking. But here's the truth: I am, too. There were just so many years of hearing that I wasn't thin enough, and when I was dressed up I didn't hear that I looked nice, I heard that a different dress would look better or I had chosen the incorrect undergarment. I *never* heard that I was beautiful or even pretty, not even in the context of the bedroom. (OD, are you hearing me on this???)
I don't exactly know what all this means, except possibly that I'm one screwed up woman. But I need to go finish dinner and I"m headed to a meeting soon, so I'll check back later tonight.
RPP
Before my H, I had two great loves both of whom loved my body. So I know that I am beautiful in my own way. But plain V has emerged since I put on weight and I need to tackle this to feel really good.
Good Liam is mine (cackles, laughs and rubs hands)
Not screwed up RPP, just normal like the rest of us. When the one i loved was Unloving then I lost confidence and Plain V emerged.
V
Good morning, all!
I'm feeling more positive this morning. H and I had a meeting at D12's school about placements for next year. As we were leaving, I started to go down the road of "poor me, no one to kiss me goodbye and tell me they'll see me for dinner" and then I thought, wait--I've got the whole day ahead of me to do whatever I want with and I can eat pancakes for dinner if I choose. So there. And I didn't think he was so sexy this morning.
Before my H, I had two great loves both of whom loved my body.
Yes! And good grief, isn't that a lot of fun? I want that again......
Last night I went to a sorority alumnae meeting, it was nice seeing them again, I don't go very often. It was nice to see them, and I met a couple of new sisters, too.
Hope everyone has a good start to the day!
I really was being honesty earlier in my answer to bdub:
The kiss was easy. He's the only guy I've been with for 27 years, it's all I know.
It was flattering. A sexy guy wanted to kiss me.
There was a slight bit of a power rush, I could have allowed the kiss or denied it, my choice. I could have had more, I turned it down.
I did not feel any hope or expectation, it doesn't change anything.
Let me take a short commercial break......
OK, I'm back from my break. And I stand by what I told bdub earlier. I meant it. But here's the thing. That was my reaction at the time, with my wine-soaked heart.
I can analyze all that in the light of day and come up with additional observations:
Yes, it was easy, but there are other experiences to be had out there. Choosing easy and comfortable is a big factor in finding myself where I am right now.
Yes, H is sexy, but he hasn't treated me like a wife in about a decade.
Yes, there was a power rush, but won't that be true of any guy who decides to kiss me in the future?
And there's still no hope or expectation, because one isolated anniversary kiss still doesn't mean squat. H doesn't live with me, and he doesn't want to live with me.
Last week when I went sailing I met a guy that was interesting. I've talked to him a couple of times since. And if it was him that kissed me instead of H, the only thing missing would be the easy. I could substitute exciting instead. And this guy hasn't treated me poorly for a lot of years.
It's not fair to compare new guy to H
That sort of thinking is what cause H to take off in the first place.
With that being said, I know exactly what you meant, and why you said it. I just have to pick on you since I have not been around in a while!
The idae of not being attractive enough or good enough is an interesting topic. I have been going through this a little myself. I am stuck right now trying to decide if a lot of "not feeling attractive enough or good enough" was created in my head, and then reinforced by xw because my filters caused me to hear her words in a negative way because I was feeling unattractive.
It's not fair to compare new guy to H
That sort of thinking is what cause H to take off in the first place.
Fair enough. A spouse will never be able to compete with someone new. However, had H not left me, he wouldn't have had to.
The idae of not being attractive enough or good enough is an interesting topic. I have been going through this a little myself. I am stuck right now trying to decide if a lot of "not feeling attractive enough or good enough" was created in my head, and then reinforced by xw because my filters caused me to hear her words in a negative way because I was feeling unattractive.
That's possible. But it's not my filter that made me hear that I wasn't thin enough, that I would look better in something else (just as we were walking out the door), or that I somehow needed different clothes to make up for my physical shortcomings. That was just out there, nothing subtle about it. And I could have even taken that as constructive criticism had H ever given me the other side of it, if I had heard from him that I was actually beautiful, it's just that the dress didn't fit correctly. And I didn't mis-hear that, cause there was nothing to hear.
And I'm sure you are hot, bdub.
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Just journaling a bit: I've seen H the past two days, parent meetings at the girls' schools. We've talked and texted about kid calendar and the house (now the air on the other side of the house seems not to be working). I invited him to have Easter dinner with us; he accepted. And my gut reaction to all this (in case anyone is asking
) is what a good X he's going to be.
Our end-of-S talk is Monday, and I've been thinking about what I'd like to do going forward. The truth is, I don't want to do anything different at all. I'm just now feeling like I'm taking my life back, getting the house the way I want it, finding my groove with the girls again, getting more active at D12's school, getting a social life of my own. H is taking care of the house and cars and finances. I guess that last sentence sort of negates the getting my life back statement earlier, I'm not really being independent right now. But I'd like to keep this arrangement another six months or so and then re-evaluate. I have no idea what H thinks, if he's leaning towards filing or not.
Tonight I'm going to a blues festival, I don't usually go out on weeknights, but I have to say I'm looking forward to this.
Hi Rppfl. You seem very strong. Sad to hear that you thought you were not attractive enough for H. I think my W is beautiful and always has been I'm not sure if others think the same but who cares. Any person ican be beautiful to others and from what I've read on your posts I have no doubt the beauty is there for all to see Glad your approaching the meeting on Monday with your own thoughts sorted Take care. Rd
Hi Rppfl. You seem very strong. Sad to hear that you thought you were not attractive enough for H. I think my W is beautiful and always has been I'm not sure if others think the same but who cares. Any person ican be beautiful to others and from what I've read on your posts I have no doubt the beauty is there for all to see Glad your approaching the meeting on Monday with your own thoughts sorted Take care. Rd
Thanks, RD. I'm on the "up" part of the rollercoaster ride right now, feeling good about myself, looking forward to some things in the future, staying in my own sandbox, mostly. I just hope I can stay there until and including Monday's lunch.
As far as the feeling beautiful thing goes, I know that I'm good looking enough. And I know my H thought so, he was just not comfortable telling me that, somehow. Which explains a lot about our M. And the fact that I allowed someone else to dictate my worth tells you something, too. But it's all water under the bridge now.
Last night I went to the blues festival and had a great time. Sailboat guy was there as part of the group. As we were all leaving, he walked me to my car. Just to make sure everything was ok. And it occurred to me that in the past few years, H hadn't done that sort of thing. and then this morning, H texted me to see if I would be home today for the air conditioning repair people. I said I'd be home this afternoon but had a ultrasound this morning to diagnose something I'm still chasing down post-surgery. And H's reply was....not hope it goes well, but something entirely unrelated to either my health or the air conditioning. I'm not complaining, I'm past that. Just observing that I'm clearly not on his thought list. And if I can keep that in mind on Monday I'll be ok no matter what he says
Glad to see you had fun at the blues fest. Monday is going to be a tough one. Praying for strength for you and hoping things work out for the best for you and your family.
Thanks, bdub. It's a busy weekend between now and Monday. Tonight I'm going on a ghost hunt. No kidding.
rpp-Have a wonderful hunt tonight! That sounds like fun!
Our end-of-S talk is Monday, and I've been thinking about what I'd like to do going forward. The truth is, I don't want to do anything different at all.
What would happen if you opted to take the lead in this discussion and tell him straight up what you want and why? If he says no, you can ask why and it will either be something you accept or feel you can't (which will likely be something you can use with the lawyer down the road).
Colorado is a total d1ck state when it comes down to long term marriages and lifestyles, but even in this insane place, they recognize the difficulty of not being 100% employed at educational capacity because you've raised kids. I was entitled to 4 years of spousal support for 14+ years of marriage, and I was employed at a job that was not considered being underemployed. Not sure how Florida swings, but my guess is that you'd get some fair financial consideration if you had to be fully independent by the end of the year. It might require you getting a job that you're qualified to do, though.
Way back when a former male poster here had a STBXW who just didn't want to work. When the judge told her she had to get a job, she applied and got a job as a cafeteria worker at the kids' school. She was genuinely shocked that the judge called her out for it and reduced her spousal support to a differential between that and what she was qualified to do. BTW, she never did get a good paying job. She basically hung her shingle out as a needy girlfriend to a string of dumb men boyfriends. Isn't that gross?
Anyway, I'll get back on point. Why not just ask for what you want right off the bat? See what he says? Your H doesn't sound like a dick, rpp. Six months is only October. That's pretty reasonable.
Hugs--Betsey
If RPP never posts again, we can mark down "ghost hunting" as a bad idea for GAL.
I think I disagree with Bets on this one. I think I would possibly sit quietly and listen. Validate and then ask for time to consider.
Just to clarify, I agree that asking for 6 months is not asking too much.
rpp, your GAL is impressive! Have a great weekend
I thought about doing a ghost hunt meet up but I was worried it was a cover for "come hang out in decrepit old houses so we can kill you." Hoping RPP posts soon...
I thought about doing a ghost hunt meet up but I was worried it was a cover for "come hang out in decrepit old houses so we can kill you." Hoping RPP posts soon...
LOL Maybell! This ghost tour was at a local historical estate so there was no decrepit element. It was interesting and whether we actually experienced anything paranormal depends on who you ask I suppose. Nothing really obvious to me. But apparently there is a ton of documentation about paranormal events on this property, photos, videos, voices, electrical disturbances, unexplained mists, doors rattling, cabinets opening, faucets running. It was a fun thing to do.
Ghost hunting . . . sounds a lot like trying to reconcile with a WAH. Just sayin'
Hope all goes well today, Rppfl, thinking of you. Rd
Whatever happens, let it be for the best. Good luck. Thinking of you today.
RAI
Sending strength and grace to you today.
Awwww.....thanks, guys, for remembering about The Conversation today. Last night I was talking to a friend of mine who was M and D within a couple of years in his 20s, no kids. He asked why I was willing to drag things out 6 more months, why not just take the legal plunge and get it over with? He couldn't understand how entwined my life is with H's, how six months is not very long to untangle 27 years of life together. I'd prefer the time to make it a gentler process, not that it will be fun no matter how it plays out, but there's no need to deliberately make it hard if we don't have to. I just have no idea what H will say. My intention is to ask some questions that are important to me, listen to see what H has to say, and then ask for what I want.
My GAL has been rocking for sure.
Blues Fest Thursday, ghost hunting Friday, movie Saturday, all with new friends. Yesterday was church and a special reception honoring my years of ministry at the church, it was lovely. It was a low key afternoon and dinner with D17. Tonight I have Heat tickets.
I'll pop in this afternoon and give a rundown of the lunch conversation.
I really was being honesty earlier in my answer to bdub:
The kiss was easy. He's the only guy I've been with for 27 years, it's all I know.
It was flattering. A sexy guy wanted to kiss me.
There was a slight bit of a power rush, I could have allowed the kiss or denied it, my choice. I could have had more, I turned it down.
I did not feel any hope or expectation, it doesn't change anything.
Let me take a short commercial break......
OK, I'm back from my break. And I stand by what I told bdub earlier. I meant it. But here's the thing. That was my reaction at the time, with my wine-soaked heart.
I can analyze all that in the light of day and come up with additional observations:
Yes, it was easy, but there are other experiences to be had out there. Choosing easy and comfortable is a big factor in finding myself where I am right now.
Yes, H is sexy, but he hasn't treated me like a wife in about a decade.
Yes, there was a power rush, but won't that be true of any guy who decides to kiss me in the future?
And there's still no hope or expectation, because one isolated anniversary kiss still doesn't mean squat. H doesn't live with me, and he doesn't want to live with me.
Last week when I went sailing I met a guy that was interesting. I've talked to him a couple of times since. And if it was him that kissed me instead of H, the only thing missing would be the easy. I could substitute exciting instead. And this guy hasn't treated me poorly for a lot of years.
Sorting through feelings is a good thing. How many of us get into Rs or R difficulties based on misplaced feelings or not knowing the difference between love and lust? Or love and safe? Or love and fun?
Have you ever felt safe expressing anger to your H? About anything?
Good luck in the discussion today. I think Betsey's suggestion was very good. I know you decided to go a different direction but maybe in the future you'll feel more able to call the shots for your life.
(( ))
Good luck today RPP. Regardless of what comes from the discussion you will handle it well. Whatever the outcome of your DBing efforts, you have become a better person.
Well, conversation box checked. He opened up ever so slightly, and I do mean ever so slightly, but enough for me to get a sense that he's really happy with the S. He's not the miserable guy I read about in everyone else's threads, he's pretty content. And I've expressed here that I'm pretty content, too, so we agreed to continue things for another six months with some very minor modifications. I did make it clear that I intended to date. Whether I will or not is a different story, but I just wanted to have that out of the way and not feel like I owed H an explanation if I decided to.
I think Betsey's suggestion was very good. I know you decided to go a different direction but maybe in the future you'll feel more able to call the shots for your life.
Labug, I don't really feel like I went a different route. Bets said I should express what I want, and I did. I just listened first. And what I heard didn't change what I wanted.
I'm glad we had the conversation, I'm glad it's over, I'm glad we aren't rushing into anything. As time goes on I'm growing more and more distant from him, and I do think there's a point where we will both want to do something different, but for now I'm grateful we are on the same page. Six more months.
Have you ever felt safe expressing anger to your H? About anything?
No. H was the one who used anger to control my emotions. RPP expresses herself, H yells, RPP shuts down. Rinse and repeat for weeks, months, years, until RPP explodes. Not a productive expression of anger on my behalf.
Hi RPP,
just catching up on your thread. I hope today goes well
Hi Rppfl. I'm glad it's over and you decided to stay as is. I would be careful about what you sense and rely more on what you see. Was the dating thing to see a reaction or was it genuine ? Anyway. I'm glad you got through it. Take care. Rd
Jim, thanks for checking in!
RD, the dating thing was genuine. I've been feeling like I wanted to for a while now. If I was going for a reaction, it would have been in vain anyway, H said he assumed I already was. He assumes a lot of things about me that aren't true these days.
I'm glad you got through that, rpp. And that you feel at peace with the decision to continue as is for the time being. Once you start dating, I suspect you will see that you have plenty of other options for your life moving forward.
I hope so Ahoy. Right now I'm pretty pissed at H for abandoning me and leaving me to deal with a crapload of teenage girl drama all by myself. And I told him so this morning.
It gets better bdub. I just now sent him a text telling him what I thought of his vacation plans that treat me like the red headed stepchild. I'm on a roll.
I must have missed the vacation plans conversation. What happened?
Honesty laced with compassion is always good.
:)Honesty laced with compassion is always good.
I hid my truth for a lot of years, thinking that was the way to keep peace. But now I have nothing to lose by expressing myself. I'm trying to do so with grace and compassion, let's see how he deals with my honesty.
I must have missed the vacation plans conversation. What happened?
My in-laws grew up spending their summers in a Gulf Coast fishing town. My H and his sisters grew up spending their summers in this town. The houses have been passed down through the generations, the neighbors are dear friends. I've been going to this town with H since 1988, before we were M. The grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, all come in (no one lives in this town full-time), and it's a weeks long family reunion. I love that my kids are getting this opportunity.
We spent last year together there as a family, just like always, even in light of BD. This year, he apparently can't stand the thought of us being there for any length of time together, so I'm banished. I'm welcome to go at a time when he's not there. But that's just not the same. The family isn't going to come in for me, they are going to come in for H, he's their actual relative. I'm the replaceable X. He's taken my M, my family, and now my traditions. I'm heartbroken.
I can understand how that would break your heart.
If he will be gone for a week, and hes taking the children with him, that means party time for RPP. Start a new tradition?
Oh, and stop with the stinkin thinkin. It's one week, one vacation, one tradition.
The vacations and holidays are the hardest. Keep that positive mindset you are famous for around here.
No bdub, it isn't just a week. That's part of the point. I used the word "weeks" and the term "spent their summers".
No bdub, it isn't just a week. That's part of the point. I used the word "weeks" and the term "spent their summers".
I forget how short l sound when I post from my phone. I'll try this again later.
Hi Rppfl. That stinks !!!!!!! Good for kids but sh@t for you. You have every right to be piss@d Think about it , try to deal with it , then move on You are worth so much more than what your H is doing. I often say on here that I wish my W had half the backbone of the ladies on here and you are one of the top This is very hard but you will cope. The troubles we face will make us better people
Please don't dwell. Make new traditions for Rppfl. I started with small
Things like pizza nite on a Tuesday. Bacon sandwiches on a sat morning. Movie nite on a Thursday. Small but the kids love it.
Stay strong Rppfl. You will get through this. Hugs and xx from your friend in Ireland
Hi RPP, it's things like this that are really hard I think. My H's family are lovely, but are transatlantic to us. Each summer, we took SS over to see them for a coouple of weeks and had a great time. H is taking SS over this Easter, and of course I don't get to make these trips any more. It's one thing I miss...
RD is right with the idea to move forward with new traditions though. Whilst these things are hard to come to terms with, life has many new joys in store for us too...
I felt that way over Thanksgiving. I worked hard to build relationships with all his family (way harder than he ever did). And now he keeps them and I lose them.
I"m sorry you'll be losing a tradition you loved. I hope you make wonderful new ones that reflect the new, articulate, self-respecting RPP.
Thanks, bdub, RD, Toots, Maybell for weighing in on the vacation thing. I'm much closer to H's family than I am my own, I talk to his sister a few times a week, I talk to my sister a few times a year. Ditto the moms. It's just hard to feel shoved out of a family because he's being selfish. I know that SIL and MIL mean well, that they are making an effort to keep in touch, that they have been very supportive, but I also know as time goes on and things shift, he's their son, their brother. I'm the X. This Gulf Coast summer is the most relaxing thing I do all year, my kids look forward to it all year, there's nothing that could ever possibly replace it. And that's sad.
The rest of this it largely a brain dump, it may or may not make sense, but here I go.
Yesterday I went to a meeting at church (where I used to work) and as I was leaving I stopped to talk to one of the maintenance guys and found out his W had left him a month ago and he hadn't talked to her since. He knew about my H, and we chatted about both of us a bit. He made the comment that he knew I'd still take H back, even now, and I teared up a bit. Because, yes, a lot of the time I think I would.
So swirl that conversation around in my head with Monday's conversation with H, and with the two honesty/venting texts I sent yesterday, and I get the following observations. Yes, there are times when I absolutely feel like I'd take him back in that moment. But when I think through what I believe that would accomplish, almost none of it has anything to do with H himself. I want someone to raise my kids with, I want someone to grow old with, I want someone to love and cherish me, to walk beside me, to talk to, to share my life with. I notice that I'm not saying how much I love H, how much I miss *him*. And I feel a little guilty about that. Would I take H back just to get those things? Wouldn't that be just as selfish of me as he's being?
I'm going to try being a little more NC. I'm not sure what I can cut out, honestly, as I only contact him about kid and house stuff now, but I really feel like a little more space would do me some good right now. This week anyway. Even as stupid as I think the NC is. I don't know how I can feel like it's stupid and do it anyway, but here I go.
(((RPP)))
You know, I would absolutely tell Husband how you feel about the vacation thing. I think its OK when something goes above and beyond a certain pain threshold to call BS and break the NC and just simply say "Hey, this really hurts because of X and Y". Plainly put and as honestly as possible, then leave it. Just my opinion, anyway.
"I notice that I'm not saying how much I love H, how much I miss *him*. And I feel a little guilty about that. Would I take H back just to get those things? Wouldn't that be just as selfish of me as he's being?
No, from my perspective and from a biblical perspective, no this does not make you selfish. At least not selfish in a worldly sense. You don't have to "feel" the emotion or say that you love him. All the things you would be willing to take him back over that you listed above are love. Honey, I support you in whatever you choose to do, EXCEPT I will not support you in beating yourself up over normal feelings any wife should have if she found herself in your situation.
Do something nice for yourself today but also allow yourself to have normal emotions without labeling yourself as selfish.
On the no contact thing, my wife said that was the part that drove her completely nuts, so it works. I hate it to, but it does work.
So, a lot to process. Let it all sink in, that's a lot of hurt to absorb.
Don't say anything to him just yet. I lost my H's family when we were S cause my parents were dead, my brothers lived far away and we had lost the closeness we had as kids. (long story) I can understand your pain but it does get better.
As Dub said, great your own tradition. Go to Europe for the week.
So.......I just had a conversation with my mom, in which she revealed that H used to email her complaints about me on a regular basis. I have never, ever complained to H's mother about him. I have never, ever complained to my own mother about H. I never even complained to my girlfriends about H. NC is sounding very appealing this morning.
What did you mom say to him when he did this?
What did you mom say to him when he did this?
I'm not entirely sure, she's as closed off as H is. But I got the impression that she simply ignored him and stopped responding at all.
And wow can I see how I learned to deal with conflict. If I ignore it, then it will go away. Won't it???
And wow can I see how I learned to deal with conflict. If I ignore it, then it will go away. Won't it???
Of course
it works every time. When did this rug get so lumpy?
Your relationship with SIL and MIL are up to you and them. they've been part of your life for 25 years (more than half of H's life) so your relationship is a relationship in its own right not some kind of side bar to your relationship with your H.
My Ex (prior to W) is still good friends with my mum and my brother, they went to her wedding last year. Now I havent spoken to her in 6 years, which is a shame as we were best friends for 9 years but its a consequence of my actions. the fact that she kept that relationship going seemed a little odd to me and i know it annoyed my wife, but ultimately its nothing to do with me. I will admit it was strange to visit my mums house and see photos both my significant ex's in wedding dresses but thats a whole other thing.
Your H is going for a week, you say they go for the summer, is there any opportunity to go out there after your H and still see them?
Your H is going for a week, you say they go for the summer, is there any opportunity to go out there after your H and still see them?
I am totally not explaining myself well here. This trip is more than a week for everyone, including H and (formerly) me and my kids. Yes, it's possible that I go there without H. I don't want to. I want to be part of the magical summer that I've had for 27 years. The one where we escape the city and my kids roam free and I relax with family and neighbors that I've known forever. And it's not the same experience without H, just trust me on that and don't make me explain why.
I appreciate that everyone is trying to give me a different perspective, I really do. I'm just in a funk about this, this is not changing a week's vacation plan, this is removing something that's been a significant part of my life.
rppfl- I've meant to tell you this for a long time but haven't gotten around to it. Now I have to make time even if I'll be a hair late for my appointment.
I have admired how you've handled yourself like almost no one else. You show empathy and compassion for your H when you can, and still find positive qualities about him when possible. You have stood by your M a long time and accepted a lot of limbo. You have been very hurt, and angry at times, but it doesn't define you...those seem to be moods or reactions, not your legacy. You aren't rewriting history on your ex, minimizing everything you had because of his recent decisions, but instead are admitting that you are suffering the loss of a good man who is human and has failed.
So many things I can't remember any more. But it's been on my mind since you were talking about "being attractive" or in or out of "someone's league".
I'll tell you my opinion on attractive. I don't care about looks, much less than most men or women even. I don't really care about income, success in the outside world, or whether someone is the life of the party. None of that defines whether "I'll be in to her".
I'm usually more interested in someone that has strong character and values, someone that has some passion to offer...but just as importantly someone that can be into me. Someone that would choose to appreciate me, treat me lovingly, validate me, even when we disagreed or things were tough. Someone that would forgive me and stand by me through tough times.
So don't worry about what you have to offer or what league you're in. You bring a lot to the table and I appreciate you modeling such a healthy path through this loss.
Zues, thank you. That is such a kind thing to say, and it lifts me up today.
I am coming from a position where I don't get along with the in-laws at all. A big part of that is because ew vented to her mom about everything, constantly. Over the years the resentment built up and MIL had heard so much bad that things just fell apart.
I also need to say I should have read your post a little better. I read it and jumped right to the conclusion that it was only a vacation, no big deal. However, I will stand by what I said before. Either go another week, or start a whole new tradition. I hope your inlaws accept you and you can go at a different time. The children will get a double dose of the fun times that way.
If it is has you in that much of a funk, maybe try to take some of the finality out of it. After all, no one knows what will happen at the end of this 6 month period. 2016 is another year!
rpp,
I appreciate that everyone is trying to give me a different perspective, I really do. I'm just in a funk about this, this is not changing a week's vacation plan, this is removing something that's been a significant part of my life.
Unfortunately, this is what happens when unraveling the tentacles of marriage and family. It's the collateral damage that hurts the most. I haven't been camping since our separation. My XH got the motor home in the D (because he is a far better a mechanic than I am, even in my dreams) and I couldn't afford the maintenance. So when he pulls up with D18 in his newer home away from home, I'm sometimes surprised to see all our old stuff that we used as a family. (I know, that makes no sense.) I love camping and miss it. But apparently, I don't miss it enough to make it happen. And it surprises me that it gets to me now and then.
I also don't get invited to his family functions. I was very close with my former SIL (we still keep in touch, BTW) and a little more than unhappy that I wasn't sent an invitation to his nephew's college graduation. But I get it. He's family, and my kids are family. I'm not. But I've got a great family too. That's the part that makes me happy.
Mourn the loss and move forward. You're going to have to replace what was with what will be. Start a new vacation, all rpp style.
BTW, I have a group of friends from college that I've kept in touch with. One of them is also named Betsy, and she was my junior roomie. She's my traveling pal to D21's volleyball matches. Her son goes to college in NY and she will sometimes travel to her matches with her son. We've done our thing for 3 years now, and when the other 2 showed up at my brother's funeral, we all made a pinky promise to do one last volleyball trip this fall and then convert it to an annual trip with each other - each of us taking a turn at calling the shots on where. We're all really excited about it! The icing on the cake? The trip we decided on in October... one of the teams playing is our alma mater.
So... if you got to choose a new vacation plan, what would it be? And how can you make that happen?
Your H is going for a week, you say they go for the summer, is there any opportunity to go out there after your H and still see them?
I am totally not explaining myself well here. This trip is more than a week for everyone, including H and (formerly) me and my kids. Yes, it's possible that I go there without H. I don't want to. I want to be part of the magical summer that I've had for 27 years. The one where we escape the city and my kids roam free and I relax with family and neighbors that I've known forever. And it's not the same experience without H, just trust me on that and don't make me explain why.
I appreciate that everyone is trying to give me a different perspective, I really do. I'm just in a funk about this, this is not changing a week's vacation plan, this is removing something that's been a significant part of my life.
I've understood exactly what you've been saying. I have no desire to give you a different perspective. I just want you to know I COMPLETELY get it. It hurts. Wish I had the magic power to fix it. I also hope that I don't offend anyone here at all when I say , some things a new "tradition" just aren't going to fix. For me it's sad because everyone looses, whether they admit it or not.
And BTW, I'm with Zeus. It's more likely that most guys out there aren't in YOUR league than the other way around.
(((rpp))) You almost feel like your family to me.
Totally agree with Jefe , you are a woman only a fool would not want. Jefe is also right about the traditions. You can't replace the old ones but you can enjoy the new ones Take care. Rd
I also hope that I don't offend anyone here at all when I say , some things a new "tradition" just aren't going to fix. For me it's sad because everyone looses, whether they admit it or not.
I'm not offended, Jefe. And I wasn't trying to minimize her hurt. Grieving what is lost is certainly understandable and normal.
The only thing we can do in this world is accept the call for change and do it on our own terms. This door closed (like many others in this process, right?). So pick out a new door that works for you.
The only thing we can do in this world is accept the call for change and do it on our own terms. This door closed (like many others in this process, right?). So pick out a new door that works for you.
So when I read through and was going to respond, I found Bets had done it for me.
Life is full of things that are unfair, all we can do is grieve whatever and move on.
rpp, I think you're grieving this loss and that's good. I don't think you'll get stuck here and remember, we don't know what's ahead of us.
Perhaps something even better is in your future.
Hey RPP, its been a few days. How are you? Any updates? FYI we have 3 inches of snow here. Clean out the spare room, I'm moving to south Florida :-)
Thanks guys. You all are such a team around me, my tribe.
Things are going along. Girls are on spring break this week, we've been to the beach, worked puzzles, had friends sleep over, D12 made a special dinner. Yesterday we went snorkeling, today is prom dress shopping and a local fair. I've been NC with H since Friday. I've talked to sailboat guy more than I have H this week.
Yep. I'm actually sort of on cruise control right now. Its a different kind of limbo, one where I get to call most of the shots and don't walk on egg shells. I text H when necessary about kids stuff, I'm shooting for half of the days to be NC. He's no longer the first thing I think about when I wake up.
I've given some thought about the person I want to be going forward. And I'm beginning to explore how to get there. I have a long way to go, but I am in no hurry as long as I'm moving at my own pace.
I'm glad to hear it. I went into a foxhole for a bit and lost track of a lot. I'm sorry about that. Coming out now and it's nice to not be so self-absorbed. You sound like you're on a good track.
MB, don't know if you caught this part, but I recently found out that H used to email my mom and complain about me. That was a huge turnoff. Huge. Especially since he never brought issues to me. Just not the kind of person I want to be dealing with.
!!!!! You're right, I missed that part. I'm so sorry. Good for you for knowing you don't want to be dealing with that. He should have brought it all to you.
My brother does that with my mom. She eats it up and holds it against my SIL at the same time that she's kind of telling him he needs to be talking to his W and not her. It's so frustrating. Creates all kinds of family issues that could so easily be avoided.
OK. Two comments. One is I went through something similar with my STBX. I sent her a few EXTREMELY PERSONAL emails during our difficult times that bared my soul and left me very vulnerable. It was in an attempt to open up and plant the seeds for potential communication and healing.
I found out that she had forwarded them to her friends with the comment "how am I supposed to respond to THIS?"
I felt very betrayed. She never got it. I tried having her imagine how she'd feel if I persuaded her to make exotic love on camera for me to commemorate, and then later I played that video with my buddies drinking beers and laughing. I told her that's how I felt when she shared this type of thing with others. She dismissed those feelings and that hindered our communication going forward as I didn't have the same level of trust.
At BD by the way, she emailed me a long list of my faults and why she was leaving me. I found out that she had shared that email with my sister, her friends and family as well. That really bothered me. AND...this will lead up to something I post on my thread soon.
***HOWEVER*** I can't busdrive her too hard. I consider what she did a betrayal. I don't think it's right. I don't think she should have treated me that way. HOWEVER. I am NOT going to "celebrate" that I don't have to put up with that anymore.
Had my STBX had the strength of character to address her issues with me, avoid the temptations of other men and alcohol, and wanted to work on our R...I could accept that about her. I DIDN'T LIKE IT. AT ALL. But I wouldn't have ended our M over it. Even if it continued, even if I felt it undermined our trust and was disrespectful. You know why? Because I believe in M, and if she wouldn't change I'd have to deal with that.
So I hesitate to write a list of all my STBX's faults and celebrate my 'freedom' from them. My next partner will have faults too, as will I. I will do my best to EMBRACE those faults and make a good M with the WHOLE person, not just the parts of them I like. Ultimately I loved my STBX, and the only part of her I utterly reject is her decision to divide our family and end our M.
Not a "2x4" or anything, lord knows I'm not judging anyone here. And RPPFL, you know I look up to you as a model of good behavior. I just wanted to share my thoughts on this, that the sour grapes perspective isn't really fair. Sometimes I read this and think "oh, they'd NEVER get along with me if they were this critical of their ex". I don't think you'd want to project that impression with those around you.
Sorry, I tried to soften that and still think I came across as critical myself. I don't have the energy to rewrite this so I'm trusting that you'll know I don't mean it that way and am just playing with ideas, I'm not on a soap box in any way. Peace and strength rppfl, and keep leading!
Zues, it's not sour grapes. Its a better perspective on exactly who I was M to.
My former boss is a recovering alcoholic. I knew he drank but was unaware of the extent of the problem. After all, I was not his wife nor his mother. Then there was a particular event after which people started coming out of the woodwork and telling me stories. When I pieced it all together, when I finally saw the bigger picture, I immediately went to the correct person to get him into rehab.
If I was happily M and found out about the emails I could have worked through it. But I found out about them after he cheated, lied, and walked out. After years of being told I wasn't attractive enough, wasn't good enough. I'm not celebrating at all, I'm just viewing from a different perspective. I'm seeing the bigger picture.
Cool. Thanks rppfl. That makes perfect sense.
I just see the pattern with a lot of LBS's and don't like going too far down that path. But yeah, learning things after the fact does add clarity.
I was just thinking today that my STBX may have had other EA's over the years that I never knew about. She was always VERY jealous of me spending ANY time with another woman and I rarely did (no female friends here, I don't like to flirt with danger). In fact, one night my car died and my boss (female) gave me a ride home because no one else was there, and she was MAD at me.
I bring that up because I know most cheaters are the ones most suspicious and jealous and she certainly was. She may not have ever done anything inappropriate, but looking back she did have a lot of time on her own, was big into social media and texting, etc. Who knows?
I don't want to be suspicious myself, I just don't want to be stupid. But my point is that if I found that out after the fact I would be a bit disillusioned about the quality of the R I had been involved in. So I guess that's normal. But definitely different than turning your ex into a villain which I don't agree with.
Zues I totally hear and agree with you on not turning our Xs into villains. After all, we were M to them for a reason. Other than the infidelity and walking out (which to me are pretty huge), he's not being a bad guy. He has been there for me in my health issues, is a really good dad, has been financially up front, never spews, is polite when we have schedule conflicts. He's gonna be a great X.
I'm a loud voice here for keeping the focus on what the LBS can control and having the courage to look in the mirror that's being held up for us.
However, sometimes in that process comes the strength to face the realization that the WAS had real flaws. As you say so well, rpp, "the whole picture" comes together.
I see no sour grapes.