Maybell XXXI - 02/25/15 08:23 PM
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/25/15 10:10 PM
I passed First Aid/CPR and now can assist any of you in a medical situation. If you're vomiting, you might just have to let me call 911 and watch you...
Maybell, I think some kids have a combination of issues, emotions and experiences that affect their ability to insert a pause before going from 0-60 in less than 10 seconds. You're certainly not alone. My kiddo has sensory issues, and I think that comes into play as well. Most humans don't like or appreciate transition or change. Again, that shows up in a very exaggerated fashion in my D17. I do a lot of voice prompting by telling her what she can expect. She especially hates getting out of bed (who doesn't?) and getting dressed for school. So I try to minimize the starkness and just keep talking to her. Let me just say that *most* days she doesn't give a crap. But if she starts to take that first motion to hit me, I intervene and tell her that hitting is unacceptable. You get the drift. And you'd think because she's heard this for years that she'd get it! But no. Every damn day is ground hog day. I really hate that.
But there's a double edge to this stupid sword. She wakes up every day without holding a grudge for something that happened yesterday (or last week, or last year). It's the cross I bear with this child. She'll never like waking up and getting dressed. Conversely, she doesn't like getting undressed and ready for bed. I've accepted that. Accept what you need to accept and just love the hell out of her anyway. You're the parent that cares.
My suggestion? Go into the special ed classroom (sans D11) and ask them for any references for behavior counseling. Or if they could get information from some parents with that population of kiddos. There is not one kiddo in my D17's special ed class (which is now called ILC - Integrated Learning Center) who doesn't have some type of external behavioral supports.
Bug, sorry I missed that they will offer the family support as well. You're absolutely right. Sometimes, it was how *I* handled things that caused the spiral to go awry. Just like dealing with my WAH, I had to learn new ways to do things. And so you know it's not like rebuilding Rome, I found that little changes often brought about drastically different results. It was encouraging.
Keep your chin up. You're doing the best job you can do today. That's all anyone can ask.
Hugs-Betsey
Maybell, I think some kids have a combination of issues, emotions and experiences that affect their ability to insert a pause before going from 0-60 in less than 10 seconds. You're certainly not alone. My kiddo has sensory issues, and I think that comes into play as well. Most humans don't like or appreciate transition or change. Again, that shows up in a very exaggerated fashion in my D17. I do a lot of voice prompting by telling her what she can expect. She especially hates getting out of bed (who doesn't?) and getting dressed for school. So I try to minimize the starkness and just keep talking to her. Let me just say that *most* days she doesn't give a crap. But if she starts to take that first motion to hit me, I intervene and tell her that hitting is unacceptable. You get the drift. And you'd think because she's heard this for years that she'd get it! But no. Every damn day is ground hog day. I really hate that.
But there's a double edge to this stupid sword. She wakes up every day without holding a grudge for something that happened yesterday (or last week, or last year). It's the cross I bear with this child. She'll never like waking up and getting dressed. Conversely, she doesn't like getting undressed and ready for bed. I've accepted that. Accept what you need to accept and just love the hell out of her anyway. You're the parent that cares.
My suggestion? Go into the special ed classroom (sans D11) and ask them for any references for behavior counseling. Or if they could get information from some parents with that population of kiddos. There is not one kiddo in my D17's special ed class (which is now called ILC - Integrated Learning Center) who doesn't have some type of external behavioral supports.
Bug, sorry I missed that they will offer the family support as well. You're absolutely right. Sometimes, it was how *I* handled things that caused the spiral to go awry. Just like dealing with my WAH, I had to learn new ways to do things. And so you know it's not like rebuilding Rome, I found that little changes often brought about drastically different results. It was encouraging.
Keep your chin up. You're doing the best job you can do today. That's all anyone can ask.
Hugs-Betsey
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/25/15 10:18 PM
Hey Maybell,
I think "mollycoddling" was a poor choice of word...and for that I apologize.
You're dealing with a very difficult set of circumstances and I just want you to be able to stand up to STBXH and your D11. I am truly rooting for you each step of the way in your journey as the only sane parent in the equation.
Peace.
I think "mollycoddling" was a poor choice of word...and for that I apologize.
You're dealing with a very difficult set of circumstances and I just want you to be able to stand up to STBXH and your D11. I am truly rooting for you each step of the way in your journey as the only sane parent in the equation.
Peace.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 12:34 AM
Mental health issues in children have been passed on for generations and blamed on poor parenting. I'm editing myself here. The state of mental health care and the stigma attached in the US is a rant for another day.
MB, this is when you call on every contact you have. I know it might be difficult to open up to people about this but you'll be surprised at how many people are dealing with similar issues. Call your local NIMH office for support group and provider info. Contact the counselor at your D's school, your friend who is a therapist, I hate to say it but ped offices are often not in touch with these things. The IOCDF has tips on interviewing therapists. google it. Not saying it's OCD but it's a good guide on what to look for in a therapist.
We're with you, shoulder to shoulder.
MB, this is when you call on every contact you have. I know it might be difficult to open up to people about this but you'll be surprised at how many people are dealing with similar issues. Call your local NIMH office for support group and provider info. Contact the counselor at your D's school, your friend who is a therapist, I hate to say it but ped offices are often not in touch with these things. The IOCDF has tips on interviewing therapists. google it. Not saying it's OCD but it's a good guide on what to look for in a therapist.
We're with you, shoulder to shoulder.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:00 AM
Thanks very much.
I did contact the school counselor first. She directed me to my pediatrician. I wasn't optimistic because I had been to my pediatricians in two other practices with this problem, but as soon as I said hitting, kicking, screaming, and divorce, the nurse stopped me and gave me six referrals, a referral to an emergency mental health services provider, and an appointment with the pediatrician.
My coworker is a former LCSW and when she saw the list she told me who to avoid and who to call first. When I called the office I described my daughter, including that she's resistant to therapy and that she prefers people who are rational and not sickly sweet. We have an appointment for Monday.
Tonight went ok. There was one sticky moment but it didn't escalate. There was another moment that was no fun but that I was able to recognize as normal middle school behavior and that also didn't escalate and she figured it out and moved on. I got her to bed pretty much on time and after I got the boys down I went and snuggled her for a bit and now I'm finally getting the chance to nurse my cold.
Interestingly, we've been reading a children's story in which the adventure is begun when three children and their mother relocate to an old relative's house because the father abandoned the family. I thought this was a bit dark for a children's book and I kept expecting the dad to turn up and save the day. At the end he seemed to but it turned out to be the monster in disguise. The protagonist realizes the trick before his sister and brother do and he manages to save them. After, he yells to the monster:
I want Dad to be less of a jerk, and for Mom to not be so sad. I want my dad to stop talking about himself all the time and remember all the trouble I have in school, and how much Simon loves animals, and that Mallory is a great fencer! But that's *not going to happen* and you're not him.
I wish, wish, wish I knew how this speech landed on my kids' ears. (D11 almost always listens in when I read to the boys). I did not choose this series and I didn't expect this part of the story. But I wish my kids were the sort of people who would/could talk to me about these things. Maybe over time, as we've grown more in our little family of four and move away from the stuck, time-marking quality of STBX's not-leadership. Maybe when I've gotten better parenting tools and D11 has gotten better self-control tools it will feel safer for all of us to be more open about how we feel.
Talking about anxiety, FIL has demonstrated some big challenges with anxiety. He medicates with lots and lots of beer. Don't know if it's nature or nurture or both, but his mother did too and she also had a bit of a problem with pills and vodka. Her husband also cheated on her -- she always thought with her sister, though it may have been someone else (multiple someones?) they didn't divorce but they didn't live happily ever after either. Sometimes it makes me worry my D11 will have a dependency problem. I wish I could convey all the things about her I find really cool and interesting. In some really wonderful ways she is not like me and one of my favorite things about being her mother is discovering the things that make her uniquely her. (Of course I adore my boys too but that's a topic for a different day...)
I've often wondered how his father's affair felt to my FIL and his brothers. They talk about it openly in this casual gossipy way... I don't know. Another thing I guess I wish people would be more open about.
Thank you all so much for the warm support and encouragement. My PMA is returning. Maybe I will have a great love in my life, maybe I won't. But I certainly deserve better than someone with the decision-making skills and imagination of STBX. I think it will be worthwhile to hold out for that kind of love. After all, there are lots and lots of people who care about me. That's not something to sneeze at.
(get it? I've got a cold... oh, never mind)
I did contact the school counselor first. She directed me to my pediatrician. I wasn't optimistic because I had been to my pediatricians in two other practices with this problem, but as soon as I said hitting, kicking, screaming, and divorce, the nurse stopped me and gave me six referrals, a referral to an emergency mental health services provider, and an appointment with the pediatrician.
My coworker is a former LCSW and when she saw the list she told me who to avoid and who to call first. When I called the office I described my daughter, including that she's resistant to therapy and that she prefers people who are rational and not sickly sweet. We have an appointment for Monday.
Tonight went ok. There was one sticky moment but it didn't escalate. There was another moment that was no fun but that I was able to recognize as normal middle school behavior and that also didn't escalate and she figured it out and moved on. I got her to bed pretty much on time and after I got the boys down I went and snuggled her for a bit and now I'm finally getting the chance to nurse my cold.
Interestingly, we've been reading a children's story in which the adventure is begun when three children and their mother relocate to an old relative's house because the father abandoned the family. I thought this was a bit dark for a children's book and I kept expecting the dad to turn up and save the day. At the end he seemed to but it turned out to be the monster in disguise. The protagonist realizes the trick before his sister and brother do and he manages to save them. After, he yells to the monster:
I want Dad to be less of a jerk, and for Mom to not be so sad. I want my dad to stop talking about himself all the time and remember all the trouble I have in school, and how much Simon loves animals, and that Mallory is a great fencer! But that's *not going to happen* and you're not him.
I wish, wish, wish I knew how this speech landed on my kids' ears. (D11 almost always listens in when I read to the boys). I did not choose this series and I didn't expect this part of the story. But I wish my kids were the sort of people who would/could talk to me about these things. Maybe over time, as we've grown more in our little family of four and move away from the stuck, time-marking quality of STBX's not-leadership. Maybe when I've gotten better parenting tools and D11 has gotten better self-control tools it will feel safer for all of us to be more open about how we feel.
Talking about anxiety, FIL has demonstrated some big challenges with anxiety. He medicates with lots and lots of beer. Don't know if it's nature or nurture or both, but his mother did too and she also had a bit of a problem with pills and vodka. Her husband also cheated on her -- she always thought with her sister, though it may have been someone else (multiple someones?) they didn't divorce but they didn't live happily ever after either. Sometimes it makes me worry my D11 will have a dependency problem. I wish I could convey all the things about her I find really cool and interesting. In some really wonderful ways she is not like me and one of my favorite things about being her mother is discovering the things that make her uniquely her. (Of course I adore my boys too but that's a topic for a different day...)
I've often wondered how his father's affair felt to my FIL and his brothers. They talk about it openly in this casual gossipy way... I don't know. Another thing I guess I wish people would be more open about.
Thank you all so much for the warm support and encouragement. My PMA is returning. Maybe I will have a great love in my life, maybe I won't. But I certainly deserve better than someone with the decision-making skills and imagination of STBX. I think it will be worthwhile to hold out for that kind of love. After all, there are lots and lots of people who care about me. That's not something to sneeze at.
(get it? I've got a cold... oh, never mind)
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 01:02 PM
Hi Maybell. Nothing fabulous to say, other than I'm glad you have an appointment for your D11 and hope that it turns into a resource you can count on going forward. And I hope you are fighting off that cold and feeling better.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 01:43 PM
Was supposed to have met STBX for lunch today to talk about how to tell kids about divorce. School is cancelled today due to snow so the plan needs to change. I'm struggling. I hate the sight of him. How am I supposed to deal with all this for the next ??? number of years? It's not that I'm not detached. It's that I'm disgusted at his quality.
To clarify, I don't want to share my children with someone with his values.
To clarify, I don't want to share my children with someone with his values.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 01:47 PM
Maybell,
Read through my posts... Especially your responses to me. I've expressed similar feelings and you've replied honestly and thoughtfully... and more articulately than I ever could.
Hang in there.
Read through my posts... Especially your responses to me. I've expressed similar feelings and you've replied honestly and thoughtfully... and more articulately than I ever could.
Hang in there.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 02:20 PM
Maybell,
Glad you have the appointment. What a crazy coincidence with that children's story. I second what Claire said. I've read her posts and you've always come through with such awesome advice and perspective. But I also understand how you feel. I too am questioning my H's character and wondering how I can parent with him for the next several years when he doesn't have the type of growth or ability to look inward and see what he's doing to our family.
Glad you have the appointment. What a crazy coincidence with that children's story. I second what Claire said. I've read her posts and you've always come through with such awesome advice and perspective. But I also understand how you feel. I too am questioning my H's character and wondering how I can parent with him for the next several years when he doesn't have the type of growth or ability to look inward and see what he's doing to our family.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 02:37 PM
I'm just gonna pipe up here and say-y'all are borrowing trouble. If you expect it to be terrible, it will be that. None of us knows just how your coparenting will go-have no expectations.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 02:46 PM
It's not that it will be terrible. It's that I hate the sight of him and I don't know how or when I will stop thinking "there's the dishonest, self-absorbed jerk who violated my trust and destroyed my family without even knowing why."
How am I supposed to coparent with someone I know for sure lies to me without compunction?
How am I supposed to coparent with someone I know for sure lies to me without compunction?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 02:52 PM
What's your alternative?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 02:57 PM
Hey Maybell-
I think this is a hard on for those of us who dealt with an affair. There's just such a whopping load of lies and poor behavior. I know this is a question I have asked myself (and asked on my thread too).
Google "parallel parenting". When I read the descriptions, I think "I can do that now". I still have full hope for a true co-parenting relationship with STBX (who is at least reasonably engaged with kids) but there's too much hurt for that to happen now.
Sorry- big deadline at work - gotta run.
I think this is a hard on for those of us who dealt with an affair. There's just such a whopping load of lies and poor behavior. I know this is a question I have asked myself (and asked on my thread too).
Google "parallel parenting". When I read the descriptions, I think "I can do that now". I still have full hope for a true co-parenting relationship with STBX (who is at least reasonably engaged with kids) but there's too much hurt for that to happen now.
Sorry- big deadline at work - gotta run.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:06 PM
I'm not negating any of the aftereffects of affairs, raliced but parenting still has to be done, the H is still the father of the children and we can still decide who we want to be.
MB, I don't read here daily anymore so I'm not current. Has he been lying to you recently? I just really don't know. Your H has his own bag of dysfunction, no doubt about that. Don't bite the hook, leave his dysfunctions with him. Set clear boundaries, don't bail him out, let him know what you need or more importantly, what the kids need.
MB, I don't read here daily anymore so I'm not current. Has he been lying to you recently? I just really don't know. Your H has his own bag of dysfunction, no doubt about that. Don't bite the hook, leave his dysfunctions with him. Set clear boundaries, don't bail him out, let him know what you need or more importantly, what the kids need.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:11 PM
Thanks Labug.
I am meeting him in about 45 minutes to talk about explaining all this to the kids so its' stirring a lot up.
After D11's giant meltdown the other night I spent WAY too much time asking him why he felt like he had to destroy our family the way he did. He said that he just felt like he knew everyone else better than he knew himself. I asked him why he felt like he'd be able to find himself by having a bunch of one night stands while he was on business trips and he answered that he didn't know what he wanted at that point.
The one night stands are I guess just now sinking in and they make me sick. I hate the sight of him. I hate that he is so self-serving that he can make his screwing around into a noble search for self.
And I can SEE that D11 is really upset and angry and she won't admit to any more than surface stuff and it hurts me to see her hurting so bad and not be able to get her to open up the way other people's kids do.
I just am processing through a lot of my own frustration and anger.
I am meeting him in about 45 minutes to talk about explaining all this to the kids so its' stirring a lot up.
After D11's giant meltdown the other night I spent WAY too much time asking him why he felt like he had to destroy our family the way he did. He said that he just felt like he knew everyone else better than he knew himself. I asked him why he felt like he'd be able to find himself by having a bunch of one night stands while he was on business trips and he answered that he didn't know what he wanted at that point.
The one night stands are I guess just now sinking in and they make me sick. I hate the sight of him. I hate that he is so self-serving that he can make his screwing around into a noble search for self.
And I can SEE that D11 is really upset and angry and she won't admit to any more than surface stuff and it hurts me to see her hurting so bad and not be able to get her to open up the way other people's kids do.
I just am processing through a lot of my own frustration and anger.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:21 PM
I know and it's so painful.
As I said, your H has his own bag of dysfunction that belongs completely to him and really none of it is about you. Once you can believe that I think it makes it better.
I've had a list pinned to my favorites for years. Your comments about your H had me looking for it.
Does any of this seem to fit him?
If I can control everything, I can keep my family from becoming upset.
If I please everyone, everyone will be happy.
Whatever happens is my fault, and I am to blame when trouble occurs.
People who love you the most are those who cause you the most pain.
If I don’t get too close emotionally, you cannot hurt me.
My responsibility is to ensure that everyone in the family gets along with each other.
Take care of others first.
Nothing is wrong, but I don’t feel right.
Expressing anger is not appropriate.
Something is missing in my life.
I’m unique, and my family is different from all other families.
I can deny anything.
I am not a good person.
I am responsible for the success of a relationship.
To be acceptable, everything must be perfect.
This is what kids learn when they grow up in a family with addiction or addictive behaviors.
Not an excuse for him but as I said, sometimes it helps to know you aren't responsible for his dysfunction and unless and until he decides to change, there's really nothing you can do.
As I said, your H has his own bag of dysfunction that belongs completely to him and really none of it is about you. Once you can believe that I think it makes it better.
I've had a list pinned to my favorites for years. Your comments about your H had me looking for it.
Does any of this seem to fit him?
If I can control everything, I can keep my family from becoming upset.
If I please everyone, everyone will be happy.
Whatever happens is my fault, and I am to blame when trouble occurs.
People who love you the most are those who cause you the most pain.
If I don’t get too close emotionally, you cannot hurt me.
My responsibility is to ensure that everyone in the family gets along with each other.
Take care of others first.
Nothing is wrong, but I don’t feel right.
Expressing anger is not appropriate.
Something is missing in my life.
I’m unique, and my family is different from all other families.
I can deny anything.
I am not a good person.
I am responsible for the success of a relationship.
To be acceptable, everything must be perfect.
This is what kids learn when they grow up in a family with addiction or addictive behaviors.
Not an excuse for him but as I said, sometimes it helps to know you aren't responsible for his dysfunction and unless and until he decides to change, there's really nothing you can do.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:29 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
I'm not negating any of the aftereffects of affairs, raliced but parenting still has to be done, the H is still the father of the children and we can still decide who we want to be.
Labug- I don't want to hijack Maybell's thread (and I really am running out the door), and I say this with all respect - but I'm not sure where you got this from what I wrote.
I agree that parenting still has to be done and that STBX still is the father. I am just aknowleding that there is a justifiable world of hurt floating around right now and a full co-parenting relationship isn't possible - which is why I like the definitions I read about parallel parenting.
To me it's like putting on my own oxygen mask befor helping the kids with theirs. It gives me a little more space, structure and time to heal. And for me, it's an acknowledgement that I'm not Super Woman and can't be expected to have a fully functional, cordial co-parenting relationship with a man who lied to me for years and hurt me in one of the worst possible ways. At least not right of the bat. I'd still love that sometime in the future.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:35 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
And I can SEE that D11 is really upset and angry and she won't admit to any more than surface stuff and it hurts me to see her hurting so bad and not be able to get her to open up the way other people's kids do.
I went through something a few weeks ago and I felt so inadequate to be the parent of my S22. Really, I wanted to abdicate. Luckily I was surrounded by some very loving folks at the time and I was helped to see, yet again that there is no 'perfect' parent but perhaps I am perfectly placed.
S22 doesn't share feelings much either. I need to be OK with that, I can't make him be how I want him to be. Lord knows I've tried. He is who he is.
He does share more now than he has in the past but I want it all, now! I want this over with! I want him cured! I want normal!
None of that changes the facts of our lives so we have to find our place in that, the place where we can be OK. There are choices.
So I go back to gratitude.
Gratitude for:
the baby steps he's made in managing his illness
the fact that he does share some emotions with me
we have access to a very good provider team
he's physically healthy
we have had the financial ability to get the care he needs
that I have the capacity to grow and change
Hang in there, you can do this.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:41 PM
Quote:
He does share more now than he has in the past but I want it all, now! I want this over with! I want him cured! I want normal!
You know, she is who she is. But I can see she's hurting so much and I want the tools to help her grow up to be OK with who she is. Not perfect. Not cured. But with tools that help her function without hurting herself or others.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:43 PM
Originally Posted By: raliced
Originally Posted By: labug
I'm not negating any of the aftereffects of affairs, raliced but parenting still has to be done, the H is still the father of the children and we can still decide who we want to be.
Labug- I don't want to hijack Maybell's thread (and I really am running out the door), and I say this with all respect - but I'm not sure where you got this from what I wrote.
I agree that parenting still has to be done and that STBX still is the father. I am just aknowleding that there is a justifiable world of hurt floating around right now and a full co-parenting relationship isn't possible - which is why I like the definitions I read about parallel parenting.
To me it's like putting on my own oxygen mask befor helping the kids with theirs. It gives me a little more space, structure and time to heal. And for me, it's an acknowledgement that I'm not Super Woman and can't be expected to have a fully functional, cordial co-parenting relationship with a man who lied to me for years and hurt me in one of the worst possible ways. At least not right of the bat. I'd still love that sometime in the future.
I wasn't disagreeing with what you said just trying to better state my thoughts. Apparently I didn't do a very good job.
I see it expressed often that "my H (or W) is this, that or the other (take your pick) so how can I co-parent with that?"
We just do the best we can despite the circumstances.
I don't know if that made it clearer.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 03:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
Quote:
He does share more now than he has in the past but I want it all, now! I want this over with! I want him cured! I want normal!
You know, she is who she is. But I can see she's hurting so much and I want the tools to help her grow up to be OK with who she is. Not perfect. Not cured. But with tools that help her function without hurting herself or others.
That's what you're heading toward.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 04:34 PM
Well that went badly.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 04:58 PM
Betsey, how long did it take you to get where you are with your XH? I am stuck in this awful place where I just can't stop demanding to know why he wouldn't honor his commitment to our family. When he chose to stop. Why it's better for him to inflict this pain on us than it is to face himself and make his life better within the marriage.
When am I going to stop seeing him as the man I love and start seeing that I have to live with his choices and move on? I will be fine without him. But I wanted us to be great together. When am I going to learn to live with how things are????
It's so, so hard not to take this personally.
And Bug, yes, I think most of your list applies to him.
When am I going to stop seeing him as the man I love and start seeing that I have to live with his choices and move on? I will be fine without him. But I wanted us to be great together. When am I going to learn to live with how things are????
It's so, so hard not to take this personally.
And Bug, yes, I think most of your list applies to him.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 05:25 PM
Maybell, it took awhile. I don't know how long. But awhile.
As long as you're in this rut of wanting answers, you're going to stay where you are. I understand it, but it's a cheeseless tunnel that will not help you adapt to WHAT IS right now. It's like someone who sees a train wreck. It's perfectly understandable when the debris is present and EMS is there to tend to injuries and deaths. But imagine yourself returning to the site of that train wreck long after the debris has been removed? Would that seem like a thing a reasonable person would do?
I had to get to the place where I accepted Mr. Wonderful as he is. Not as someone I wanted him to be. Honestly? I wish I had done that while we were still married. Maybe he wouldn't have felt the way he did. He did the same thing to me, so understand it's not my burden to bear alone. Take off the glasses, MB. They don't work because your eyesight has changed and now you can see things more clearly.
Your H is who he is, MB. Wanting a square peg to fit in a round hole won't make that work. So why waste time trying?
I do understand that this is a personal thing. It is. Your H rejected you and decided that life without you and the kids would be better for him. My XH apparently felt/feels the same way. My not understanding why doesn't hold me back from my own growth though. I don't think either one of us will ever have all the answers. The only thing I know is that his pain must have been awful to do such a drastic thing. While it's not all my fault, I wasn't a model wife or sometimes even a good friend or a good person in general. I accept my role in our demise. It took awhile for me to forgive him - but it took way longer for me to forgive myself.
The answers still elude me. Picture that train wreck scenario when you find yourself going down this road. It's fruitless and it's not helping you or your kids either. As my former boss used to advise me, "Do the most productive thing possible that you can when you have the opportunity."
Maybe it's time for you to find someone to talk to in order for this anger to get out. You're hurt. That's why I see the anger. Address that hurt, and I think you will learn how to live with how things are.
Hugs-Betsey
As long as you're in this rut of wanting answers, you're going to stay where you are. I understand it, but it's a cheeseless tunnel that will not help you adapt to WHAT IS right now. It's like someone who sees a train wreck. It's perfectly understandable when the debris is present and EMS is there to tend to injuries and deaths. But imagine yourself returning to the site of that train wreck long after the debris has been removed? Would that seem like a thing a reasonable person would do?
I had to get to the place where I accepted Mr. Wonderful as he is. Not as someone I wanted him to be. Honestly? I wish I had done that while we were still married. Maybe he wouldn't have felt the way he did. He did the same thing to me, so understand it's not my burden to bear alone. Take off the glasses, MB. They don't work because your eyesight has changed and now you can see things more clearly.
Your H is who he is, MB. Wanting a square peg to fit in a round hole won't make that work. So why waste time trying?
I do understand that this is a personal thing. It is. Your H rejected you and decided that life without you and the kids would be better for him. My XH apparently felt/feels the same way. My not understanding why doesn't hold me back from my own growth though. I don't think either one of us will ever have all the answers. The only thing I know is that his pain must have been awful to do such a drastic thing. While it's not all my fault, I wasn't a model wife or sometimes even a good friend or a good person in general. I accept my role in our demise. It took awhile for me to forgive him - but it took way longer for me to forgive myself.
The answers still elude me. Picture that train wreck scenario when you find yourself going down this road. It's fruitless and it's not helping you or your kids either. As my former boss used to advise me, "Do the most productive thing possible that you can when you have the opportunity."
Maybe it's time for you to find someone to talk to in order for this anger to get out. You're hurt. That's why I see the anger. Address that hurt, and I think you will learn how to live with how things are.
Hugs-Betsey
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 06:35 PM
I think it's seeing D11's pain and anger and knowing we're about to deliver another body blow to the kids. I'm dreading telling them we'll be moving again.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/26/15 08:53 PM
MB,
Maybe it would help if you put your game face on and approach it with them like the next adventure for the family? That you're going to start fresh and everyone will get to be part of the process? I *always* had good results when I invited the kids to be part of the next change and it was crystal clear that it was our adventure together?
Maybe it would help if you put your game face on and approach it with them like the next adventure for the family? That you're going to start fresh and everyone will get to be part of the process? I *always* had good results when I invited the kids to be part of the next change and it was crystal clear that it was our adventure together?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 02:05 AM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
Well that went badly.
You ready to explain this a little more, dear? Or not, either is fine. Wishing you peace.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 03:25 AM
RPP, once again I spent too much time demanding why he didn't make better choices. He asked when he could expect to hear about the legal stuff. We agreed to tell the kids what is going on tomorrow evening after I get back from my friend's funeral and then we went our separate ways and I cried for an hour.
But tonight I went to a client dinner and chatted up couples I don't know. I was struck by how they lived their lives TOGETHER -- planning trips, making goals, working together, sharing opportunities, generally acting committed.
It struck me as so different from what I experienced in my marriage. So very different that i almost wonder if I should ever have considered myself married at all. That gave me a lot of courage -- what I'm losing isn't as great as what I'm about to gain.
STBX kept the kids at my house while I was at my dinner. I walked in the house and he wouldn't go. He apologized for this afternoon then stopped himself and said "I don't want to start that again." I said "I'm done with that." He said "Ok." And then he just stood there. I said, "Are you waiting for me to say something?" He said no but he still stood there for a few minutes before he moved to put on his coat. I couldn't wait for him to leave.
I look into my future and I see the strangest blend of so much harder and so much better in front of me. Everything those couples were doing tonight, being purposeful and supportive, I will now be able to do as head of my family.
The dominoes have all fallen in the right directions for me, given the circumstances. I just have to trust and pray that as long as I step in faith that the dominoes will continue to fall the right ways.
Thanks for your support in this brief and violent wobble.
But tonight I went to a client dinner and chatted up couples I don't know. I was struck by how they lived their lives TOGETHER -- planning trips, making goals, working together, sharing opportunities, generally acting committed.
It struck me as so different from what I experienced in my marriage. So very different that i almost wonder if I should ever have considered myself married at all. That gave me a lot of courage -- what I'm losing isn't as great as what I'm about to gain.
STBX kept the kids at my house while I was at my dinner. I walked in the house and he wouldn't go. He apologized for this afternoon then stopped himself and said "I don't want to start that again." I said "I'm done with that." He said "Ok." And then he just stood there. I said, "Are you waiting for me to say something?" He said no but he still stood there for a few minutes before he moved to put on his coat. I couldn't wait for him to leave.
I look into my future and I see the strangest blend of so much harder and so much better in front of me. Everything those couples were doing tonight, being purposeful and supportive, I will now be able to do as head of my family.
The dominoes have all fallen in the right directions for me, given the circumstances. I just have to trust and pray that as long as I step in faith that the dominoes will continue to fall the right ways.
Thanks for your support in this brief and violent wobble.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 03:45 AM
If sounds like things didn't go all that badly yes, maybe you beat the "you made poor choices" thing to death but who can blame you? Glad you have a plan for telling the kids.
Every time I'm in the grocery store I see couples shopping together. My H never went with me. Ever. I didn't expect him to. Nor want him to really. I understand about questioning whether I even had a M. It was more of a business partnership sometimes.
Keep trusting and praying Maybell
Every time I'm in the grocery store I see couples shopping together. My H never went with me. Ever. I didn't expect him to. Nor want him to really. I understand about questioning whether I even had a M. It was more of a business partnership sometimes.
Keep trusting and praying Maybell
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 02:41 PM
You've gotten some good input above. I don't have much to add but know that having emotions about this earthquake in your life isn't abnormal. It's very normal and expected.
Be angry, be sad, accept that and let it pass. It may resurface but that's also OK.
Wanting your H to be someone else is a little like expecting a birch tree to turn into an oak. Not likely. But birch trees can be OK when we accept that they're birch trees.
When we fully accept the reality of our lives, life gets much easier.
Be angry, be sad, accept that and let it pass. It may resurface but that's also OK.
Wanting your H to be someone else is a little like expecting a birch tree to turn into an oak. Not likely. But birch trees can be OK when we accept that they're birch trees.
When we fully accept the reality of our lives, life gets much easier.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 04:32 PM
Quote:
Every time I'm in the grocery store I see couples shopping together. My H never went with me. Ever. I didn't expect him to. Nor want him to really.
This, by itself, means nothing. My sister and her H are very happily married, but he does the shopping. I always did the shopping as well.
Just so you have a reality check, my mom always did the shopping. My dad retired 3 years ago and all of a sudden, he wanted to infuse himself into her daily routines. Ummm, well, it didn't go well. He wanted to force her to go grocery shopping once a week - on Thursdays, because that's when he believed the store would be stocked the best and the prices lowest. He had no scientific proof of that, and he totally pissed my mom off.
One day, they were walking together, and a woman came up to them and said, "It's so awesome to see a couple your age shopping together. My heart is warmed." My mom, never one to hold back, said, "Do you want him to shop with you? Because I've been trying to convince him I don't want him to come with me. He tries to micromanage every damn food item I buy, and I hate it. I've been doing this job alone for 50 years and I want him to let me do it alone for the next 50." He seemed hurt, but I told him I had to agree with my mom. He hasn't gone since, but he attempts to bribe her with, "If you go on Thursday, I'll come with you." She gives him the stink eye and that stops immediately.
I know it might come as a great shock to you guys, but I, too, was one to hold on to my beliefs and repeat them ad nauseum. I truly felt that if I said it often enough, they'd come to see that I was right! Let's see... that awesome little trait did very little to help me with my R with my sister for as long as we lived under the same roof and for years beyond that. Fail. I think you can safely guess that my parents didn't go for it. Fail. Most of my dating relationships when in my early 20s? No, they didn't like it. Fail. And it should have been obvious by the time I got married that this belief system was never, ever gonna work for me. Yet, I did it for the 15 years I was married as well. It also didn't work with my parenting with my D21 3 years ago. You'd think I'd cease and desist. It wasn't until I realized I was going to lose my daughter for good that I shut the hell up. Granted, I wasn't bad all the time, but enough that I realized the only thing it *did* do was alienate people. They heard me the first time, and didn't go for it then.
BTW, Maybell, my sister, dad and I are all Aries dumbsh!ts as well. Perhaps this is a hideous Arian trait. We all have had the tendency to be this way. I notice it in them, but for some reason, it's different with me.
I hope it doesn't take you as long as it did for me to stop beating dead horses. It's absolutely pointless, you walk away with a sore arm and people think you're insane. I'm apparently a slow learner myself at times.
The only person who shops with me now is my D17. She's not fond of it, either. I have to make it fun. That's a chore, since grocery shopping is never "fun" for me.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 06:00 PM
Quote:
One day, they were walking together, and a woman came up to them and said, "It's so awesome to see a couple your age shopping together. My heart is warmed." My mom, never one to hold back, said, "Do you want him to shop with you? Because I've been trying to convince him I don't want him to come with me. He tries to micromanage every damn food item I buy, and I hate it. I've been doing this job alone for 50 years and I want him to let me do it alone for the next 50." He seemed hurt, but I told him I had to agree with my mom. He hasn't gone since, but he attempts to bribe her with, "If you go on Thursday, I'll come with you." She gives him the stink eye and that stops immediately.
Coffee spew moment!
I HATE grocery shopping with or without another person.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 06:05 PM
It's not that it will be terrible. It's that I hate the sight of him and I don't know how or when I will stop thinking "there's the dishonest, self-absorbed jerk who violated my trust and destroyed my family without even knowing why."
How am I supposed to coparent with someone I know for sure lies to me without compunction?
I feel exactly the same way about my soon to be exwife. I hate the site of her and the pain and confusion she has inflicted upon our children. I don't want to co parent with her and do not wnt to be a friend. All of her recent mucked up decisions have had life altering consequnces or all of us. Everyone keeps tellin me that I will get to a place of forgiveness and compassion. Screw that. I am not there yet, don't know if I will ever be there. Can you tell that I am angry?
How am I supposed to coparent with someone I know for sure lies to me without compunction?
I feel exactly the same way about my soon to be exwife. I hate the site of her and the pain and confusion she has inflicted upon our children. I don't want to co parent with her and do not wnt to be a friend. All of her recent mucked up decisions have had life altering consequnces or all of us. Everyone keeps tellin me that I will get to a place of forgiveness and compassion. Screw that. I am not there yet, don't know if I will ever be there. Can you tell that I am angry?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 06:28 PM
Quote:
I hate the site of her and the pain and confusion she has inflicted upon our children. I don't want to co parent with her and do not wnt to be a friend.
Sorry to be the one who hold feet to the fire here, but I'm gonna do it anyway. You don't have to be friends. But MB has 3 reasons and you have 2 good reasons to be cooperative coparents: your children. They have both of you, are stuck with you, and someone has to be the one who recognizes it, fosters their relationships with the other parent (as much as that process will allow) and help them navigate their own grieving that comes along with losing a parent in the home. Kids deserve at least one parent who has their back, no matter what.
They didn't ask to be in the middle of your blow up. So if you're mindful of that, it makes it much easier to do.
There's a book out there, though I can't remember the author, called Parenting with a Jerk. It might help you folks. Parenting is a different R than being a spouse. Put on that hat and don't look for anything other than what that job brings when doing the tasks.
Sometimes, what helped me avoid being the jerk is to imagine how I'd feel if this were my parents. It became crystal clear what I needed to do for my girls.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/27/15 06:40 PM
Maybell, I feel like this passerby who witnesses a house fire and is better to just stand back while the professionals handle the situation. What you're going through is beyond anything I've ever experienced.
Right? How is it that people are even allowed to do these things? My WAW ran away from any M work, is having lots of fun with OM, taking care of the kids only half the time, etc. It sounds like a great deal! I've struggled a long time with this, I still do, and at the moment I see it as (1) sh!t happens and (2) it won't last.
I guess this is mind-reading, but is that him finally feeling that you're moving on and testing whether he still has a place with you? OK, forget I even said that.
By the way, he drives me nuts with these "I don't want to start that again" because it is such a hypocritical way to stoke the fire while appearing to appease. ARGH! I fell like jumping through the fourth wall and interrupting the scene to grab him by the arm and yell; "YES YOU WILL! MAN UP FOR GOD SAKE!"
PS: WAW and I often did the grocery-shopping together and had a perfectly normal, lovely time. Then why did she go?!?
Originally Posted By: Maybell
Betsey, how long did it take you to get where you are with your XH? I am stuck in this awful place where I just can't stop demanding to know why he wouldn't honor his commitment to our family. When he chose to stop. Why it's better for him to inflict this pain on us than it is to face himself and make his life better within the marriage.
Right? How is it that people are even allowed to do these things? My WAW ran away from any M work, is having lots of fun with OM, taking care of the kids only half the time, etc. It sounds like a great deal! I've struggled a long time with this, I still do, and at the moment I see it as (1) sh!t happens and (2) it won't last.
Originally Posted By: Maybell
STBX kept the kids at my house while I was at my dinner. I walked in the house and he wouldn't go. He apologized for this afternoon then stopped himself and said "I don't want to start that again." I said "I'm done with that." He said "Ok." And then he just stood there. I said, "Are you waiting for me to say something?" He said no but he still stood there for a few minutes before he moved to put on his coat. I couldn't wait for him to leave.
I guess this is mind-reading, but is that him finally feeling that you're moving on and testing whether he still has a place with you? OK, forget I even said that.
By the way, he drives me nuts with these "I don't want to start that again" because it is such a hypocritical way to stoke the fire while appearing to appease. ARGH! I fell like jumping through the fourth wall and interrupting the scene to grab him by the arm and yell; "YES YOU WILL! MAN UP FOR GOD SAKE!"
PS: WAW and I often did the grocery-shopping together and had a perfectly normal, lovely time. Then why did she go?!?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 03:45 AM
The funeral today wore me a little ragged. My friend had committed suicide and the pastor dealt with it openly, lovingly, kindly. It tore me up because so much of friend's decision to end her life resonated with the end of my marriage. That was so hard.
Betsey I'm trying to coparent as best I can.
We told the kids tonight. They flinched but weren't surprised. They asked a couple of questions about moving and I promised to be as open as possible with them. And then they just sat there laughing and joking with STBX. I couldn't look at him but I participated some.
He put them to bed then came downstairs and said he was sorry.
What was I supposed to say back? Some form of "that's ok"? It's NOT ok. But I already know I've said it enough. So I snapped out "I hope it's worth it to you." Which isn't right either. But I really didn't know what else to say.
He said I guess I'll go and I said yes. (Note my restraint: I didn't say YES, PLEASE DO.)
I closed the door behind him and went up to see to my children. I'll talk more about that tomorrow.
In the four page treatise in which he asked for the separation, at BD, and other times, STBX *complained* that I'm his best friend, but OW had shown him he's capable of Passion and that's what he wanted from his life.
So he's left us for a grand search for passion. As if he's a Disney princess.
Betsey I'm trying to coparent as best I can.
We told the kids tonight. They flinched but weren't surprised. They asked a couple of questions about moving and I promised to be as open as possible with them. And then they just sat there laughing and joking with STBX. I couldn't look at him but I participated some.
He put them to bed then came downstairs and said he was sorry.
What was I supposed to say back? Some form of "that's ok"? It's NOT ok. But I already know I've said it enough. So I snapped out "I hope it's worth it to you." Which isn't right either. But I really didn't know what else to say.
He said I guess I'll go and I said yes. (Note my restraint: I didn't say YES, PLEASE DO.)
I closed the door behind him and went up to see to my children. I'll talk more about that tomorrow.
In the four page treatise in which he asked for the separation, at BD, and other times, STBX *complained* that I'm his best friend, but OW had shown him he's capable of Passion and that's what he wanted from his life.
So he's left us for a grand search for passion. As if he's a Disney princess.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 03:52 AM
Maybell- It sounds like you handled it about as well as it could be handled.
I'm really sorry you have to go through this.
I'm really sorry you have to go through this.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 02:59 PM
I'm handling the kids so much better than STBX.
After he left I went up to kiss the kids. D11 was reading happily. Boys needed some loving. S9 said he never expected his dad to come home but talking about it reminded him of it and made him sad. We all went up to my bed and snuggled for a little while, kind of talking about how to feel sad and how to talk about things, and then we had gotten through all that and I picked up the first book in our new series that we're starting and read to them for a while. That settled them down very nicely.
After I got the boys settled again I went to talk to D11. I asked her if she had any questions or concerns about what STBX had talked about. She said no. I asked if she was surprised and she said no. I asked if she was sad and she said of course.
She gets this affect when I start straying to close to the bone for her comfort that makes it clear that it's time for me to stop talking and she got that affect after she said of course that made me stop. I don't know how to get past it while respecting her boundaries. I'm glad we have the counseling appointment on Monday. I need some tools.
This morning I spent some time with D11 going over realtor sites, talking about finances and constraints, discussing what kind of family we're going to be, and laying out the worst case scenario. I think that helped her. She was disappointed with the houses we were looking at because the ones in good locations for our needs are "plain" (read: 1950's bare bones ranchers) and not in locations where she can still walk with her friends. There's just NOTHING on the market in the location that would best suit us except the one that got me all excited in January, which has been under contract twice and fallen through twice. That house is GREAT in all meaningful ways. But priced too high. We talked about that some.
Of course there is also the open question of how much I'll be able to afford and how I'm going to be getting out of this house.
I hope all this was worth it to STBX because it's hard to see how I will ever have any warm feelings for him of any kind ever again after what I'm having to go through for him to pursue his passion.
Insert nasty name for selfish birch tree here.
After he left I went up to kiss the kids. D11 was reading happily. Boys needed some loving. S9 said he never expected his dad to come home but talking about it reminded him of it and made him sad. We all went up to my bed and snuggled for a little while, kind of talking about how to feel sad and how to talk about things, and then we had gotten through all that and I picked up the first book in our new series that we're starting and read to them for a while. That settled them down very nicely.
After I got the boys settled again I went to talk to D11. I asked her if she had any questions or concerns about what STBX had talked about. She said no. I asked if she was surprised and she said no. I asked if she was sad and she said of course.
She gets this affect when I start straying to close to the bone for her comfort that makes it clear that it's time for me to stop talking and she got that affect after she said of course that made me stop. I don't know how to get past it while respecting her boundaries. I'm glad we have the counseling appointment on Monday. I need some tools.
This morning I spent some time with D11 going over realtor sites, talking about finances and constraints, discussing what kind of family we're going to be, and laying out the worst case scenario. I think that helped her. She was disappointed with the houses we were looking at because the ones in good locations for our needs are "plain" (read: 1950's bare bones ranchers) and not in locations where she can still walk with her friends. There's just NOTHING on the market in the location that would best suit us except the one that got me all excited in January, which has been under contract twice and fallen through twice. That house is GREAT in all meaningful ways. But priced too high. We talked about that some.
Of course there is also the open question of how much I'll be able to afford and how I'm going to be getting out of this house.
I hope all this was worth it to STBX because it's hard to see how I will ever have any warm feelings for him of any kind ever again after what I'm having to go through for him to pursue his passion.
Insert nasty name for selfish birch tree here.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 03:48 PM
When will I quit patting my own back? After thinking I had done ok with the kids we're having one of those mornings that makes me want to say "I hate my life." SIGH. This is so hard. Sometimes I wish I had the sort of morals where I could just say "This isn't what I want. I need to feel passion in my life. Good luck to all of you."
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 04:01 PM
Are you patting your own back? Why?
Some days are good, some days are not so good, some days are just days. It's mostly out of our control.
Have we respond is in our control.
Some days are good, some days are not so good, some days are just days. It's mostly out of our control.
Have we respond is in our control.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 04:02 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
Sometimes I wish I had the sort of morals where I could just say "This isn't what I want. I need to feel passion in my life. Good luck to all of you."
Sometimes that's tempting for a moment, isn't it?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 04:43 PM
Sooooo, I think your restatement of his need for passion statement requires more thought.
When H left I was so blindingly angry and part of that was because he had done something I had thought of many times. Just saying "I'm done" and walking. I don't know many long term, married people who haven't had these thoughts. There's a book by Anne Tyler, Ladder of Years in which Delia, the main character, takes off while her family is on a beach vacation, lives in a small room, gets a job and starts over. (it takes her family a while to miss her, which says something). When I read the book, my kids were small, H and I both working, no time or money really for any thing not necessary.
I could relate to Delia in the book. Having a quiet room of my own, choosing the people I let in, finding a job that didn't involve life altering decisions, all sounded very appealing.
I didn't leave my family but when H did, there was a lot of anger around "I stuck it out, why do you get to go when I put in much more effort than you. There's my judge voice. I can recall one of the vets calling me on it when I first started posting here. I think he asked "Are you angry because he beat you to the punch?"
To deal with our feelings we have to know where they originate.
And in digging for where mine originated, I realized that my crap was my problem. I was being a victim and blaming where I was and my decisions on other people. If he hadn't, if they didn't, If she had only...
I'm not saying that your H choosing to have an affair is your "crap" please don't misunderstand. I know it's hard to not take that personally but it's not about you. It was also hard not to take H walking away for "no one" personally. It's all betrayal of trust.
I think at some point soon, you're going to be able to look at him and think, "You're really a sick little goober right now. I hope for the kid's sake you get it together. I wish you the best because we have lots of work to do to raise these kids. But if you don't get it together, I'll be fine cause I'm not longer carrying your stuff along with mine."
If you don't have time to find an IC right now, go to some AlAnon meetings. You're worth it.
When H left I was so blindingly angry and part of that was because he had done something I had thought of many times. Just saying "I'm done" and walking. I don't know many long term, married people who haven't had these thoughts. There's a book by Anne Tyler, Ladder of Years in which Delia, the main character, takes off while her family is on a beach vacation, lives in a small room, gets a job and starts over. (it takes her family a while to miss her, which says something). When I read the book, my kids were small, H and I both working, no time or money really for any thing not necessary.
I could relate to Delia in the book. Having a quiet room of my own, choosing the people I let in, finding a job that didn't involve life altering decisions, all sounded very appealing.
I didn't leave my family but when H did, there was a lot of anger around "I stuck it out, why do you get to go when I put in much more effort than you. There's my judge voice. I can recall one of the vets calling me on it when I first started posting here. I think he asked "Are you angry because he beat you to the punch?"
To deal with our feelings we have to know where they originate.
And in digging for where mine originated, I realized that my crap was my problem. I was being a victim and blaming where I was and my decisions on other people. If he hadn't, if they didn't, If she had only...
I'm not saying that your H choosing to have an affair is your "crap" please don't misunderstand. I know it's hard to not take that personally but it's not about you. It was also hard not to take H walking away for "no one" personally. It's all betrayal of trust.
I think at some point soon, you're going to be able to look at him and think, "You're really a sick little goober right now. I hope for the kid's sake you get it together. I wish you the best because we have lots of work to do to raise these kids. But if you don't get it together, I'll be fine cause I'm not longer carrying your stuff along with mine."
If you don't have time to find an IC right now, go to some AlAnon meetings. You're worth it.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 06:00 PM
Hi Maybell
My H said something similar to me at BD - 'I want to feel passionate love in my life everyday. To hold hands on the couch - not be able to watch TV, because I want to tear someone's clothes off.'
People have pointed out that this may not be very realistic in a LTR. And I do accept that we became a bit 'routine' in our LM. But it's hard to accept that he 'gave up' on our R so easily, you know?
My H said something similar to me at BD - 'I want to feel passionate love in my life everyday. To hold hands on the couch - not be able to watch TV, because I want to tear someone's clothes off.'
People have pointed out that this may not be very realistic in a LTR. And I do accept that we became a bit 'routine' in our LM. But it's hard to accept that he 'gave up' on our R so easily, you know?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 02/28/15 10:43 PM
Quote:
When H left I was so blindingly angry and part of that was because he had done something I had thought of many times. Just saying "I'm done" and walking.
I am very confident I'm not angry at him for leaving first. Because when my third child was a baby, and I had just moved cross-country against my desire after two years of pulling the almost single parent thing while he was doing his MBA program, I seriously reached the end of my rope. I fantasized about leaving. I pictured my quiet cottage away from it all. I was SO, SO angry with him. (Which I'm sure was no fun to live with but I did try to pull it together when he was around. All postpartum and breastfeeding and diapering two babies with no friends in a new city that I didn't even want to live in...)
Anyway, I started to think about it in real terms. How I would support myself. When I would go. And when I started to think of it like that, I pictured my kids. Those demanding, tiny little kids. And I pictured his face when he realized what I'd done. And I knew I couldn't live with myself if I made that choice. That was when I started thinking about how I could make things work for myself within the marriage and I made myself stop those thoughts.
It helped that at that same time he started stepping up in tiny little ways. We had a few hobbies we shared. We started spending time just sitting in cozy ways together. We developed a shared taste in music. There were maybe 2-3 years like that?
I don't know what ended those years. He decided he needed to change jobs and then when he did it didn't work out the way he thought it would. That was about when he started doing the one-night stand thing, I think. However, other people have dealt with setbacks in ways other than sleeping with co-workers and strangers. I'm describing the timing rather than the causes. But I don't think it had to do with me because things between us had been pretty good for a while.
I asked him the other day why he'd started sleeping around. He said he didn't know what he wanted at that point. I asked him to tell me about the first one, how he decided to cross that line. He said it was complicated and he didn't want to tell the story in a public place. (But he's not so sensitive that he won't suggest telling the kids we're divorcing while we're out to dinner.)
I'm sorry, I don't know how on earth the decision to have a one-night stand is ever complicated.
When we moved back east to where we are now, I had a lot of rationalizations for why things between us weren't good. I felt like this move was what we both needed to get back on track. Finances eased, his commute is all but gone, we were closer to family, and the kids were older. I felt like we'd be able to really rebuild. Instead, he started that affair before I even got here, and he'd started sleeping around before that even.
THAT is what I'm angry about. Neither of us was happy. But he chose to be the sort of person who can throw his responsibilities to the wind and pave his path with the suffering of people who love him and that I can't be OK with. Lots of things could be done to fix the amount of excitement and passion in our lives and none of them were. We didn't even need to have gone to counseling -- so far as my reasoning went. We just needed to spend more time together and being more intentional about caring for one another. He could have communicated his boredom with our sex life to me. I was pretty bored too. I would have liked to have explored being more erotic. We both had some forgiving to do. But instead he chose to be as hurtful as he possibly could. (Still chooses that, he told me the other night that he would have left me even if we'd never had kids.) Maybe I'm angry with him for being a birch tree when I thought he was an oak. I have no room for birch trees in my life.
I will find a way to cope with my anger but it will take some time.
D11 went a little nuts this morning again. I did the best I could to stay calm and unemotional. Dragged her and the boys off to karate where the instructors have been great male role models and also encouraging and supportive to the kids. The head instructor was the child of divorced parents himself. I asked him to have a private meeting with D11 and me and we went through what her behavior had been like, what he expected of her, and he talked about coping, among other things. She's been a lot nicer this afternoon. I think she was surprised that instead of me sitting there "tattling" on her I said "She's been having a tough time but what she's doing is intolerable." And we dealt with it from a position of validation, compassion, and boundary enforcing. She's still pretty darn angry, but she's showing a little more restraint.
When I said "patting myself on the back" I meant what most parents say -- I think I've got this parenting thing down and then I get sort of kicked in the teeth.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/01/15 03:30 PM
So, what will be the right answer for you about why he did what he did? What will it change?
Your anger might come with a different specific causative factor than mine but it's still refusing to accept the reality of life. I was there, I kicked and screamed and cried and held on for a long time.
A friend said to me at one point when I was rehashing the whys and why nots and things said and not said, "What if you never get an answer, what if you never get an apology? Will the rest of your life be about that? Sometimes we have to be OK with not knowing because even they don't know. WE have to let go."
What will his answers tell you that you don't already know?
Your anger might come with a different specific causative factor than mine but it's still refusing to accept the reality of life. I was there, I kicked and screamed and cried and held on for a long time.
A friend said to me at one point when I was rehashing the whys and why nots and things said and not said, "What if you never get an answer, what if you never get an apology? Will the rest of your life be about that? Sometimes we have to be OK with not knowing because even they don't know. WE have to let go."
What will his answers tell you that you don't already know?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/01/15 03:56 PM
I think I've heard all the answers he has. I think at the end of the day he's stuck at around age 15 and maybe doesn't totally believe he can hurt people (more than just me) in ways that matter. His sister said it must have been difficult being married to him because he never shares anything real (they are reasonably close and she's married to his best friend).
My anger now I think is me accepting that this is real, it's going to happen, and it can not be salvaged because he is who he is. It's not so much about answers, because if he could give any then he would be a completely different person. It's also about my kids' sadness, and about the total waste of it all. The waste he's made of his life with these chicken sh!t choices and the challenges the kids will face because of them.
I don't think I'm refusing to admit the reality of life. I think anger and hurt are reasonable responses to what has happened. I trusted him. He betrayed my trust horribly. He seems unable to comprehend the enormity of his actions. Yes, there are things I could have done better in the marriage. There are things I could do better now. I am committed to doing them. He hurt me within the marriage as well, with way more than just sleeping around.
I think I need to experience my anger, live through it, not try to argue it away or down. I have lost something that was very precious to me, and the hope I carried for how it could be better. I have a lot of unknowns in front of me that are scary for right now. None of this is insurmountable but I think I have to face it for what it is to be able to conquer it.
My anger now I think is me accepting that this is real, it's going to happen, and it can not be salvaged because he is who he is. It's not so much about answers, because if he could give any then he would be a completely different person. It's also about my kids' sadness, and about the total waste of it all. The waste he's made of his life with these chicken sh!t choices and the challenges the kids will face because of them.
I don't think I'm refusing to admit the reality of life. I think anger and hurt are reasonable responses to what has happened. I trusted him. He betrayed my trust horribly. He seems unable to comprehend the enormity of his actions. Yes, there are things I could have done better in the marriage. There are things I could do better now. I am committed to doing them. He hurt me within the marriage as well, with way more than just sleeping around.
I think I need to experience my anger, live through it, not try to argue it away or down. I have lost something that was very precious to me, and the hope I carried for how it could be better. I have a lot of unknowns in front of me that are scary for right now. None of this is insurmountable but I think I have to face it for what it is to be able to conquer it.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/01/15 04:00 PM
But I will try this:
Here is an exercise that I did for me that really supported me in moving past the anger towards acceptance. Lay in bed one night all alone in the peace and quiet of the darkness and ask yourself this question: "What would it be like if I could move past this anger and accept that this is what my life looks like right now?" Be with it for a while, and notice how you feel. What would it be like?
From there, when you begin to feel the lightness and relief that comes with acceptance, ask yourself this: "If I could accept this, what I do differently? How would I act? How would I move forward with my new life?"
Here is an exercise that I did for me that really supported me in moving past the anger towards acceptance. Lay in bed one night all alone in the peace and quiet of the darkness and ask yourself this question: "What would it be like if I could move past this anger and accept that this is what my life looks like right now?" Be with it for a while, and notice how you feel. What would it be like?
From there, when you begin to feel the lightness and relief that comes with acceptance, ask yourself this: "If I could accept this, what I do differently? How would I act? How would I move forward with my new life?"
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/02/15 12:51 AM
Maybell,
What you (and I, actually) are working through is not easy at all. I think you (and/or Labug) have asked me some version of the same question you were asked above: is there any answer to the question of "why?" that will somehow make this understandable? And I am right there with you on all the same points-- it all *could* have been worked on and improved.
But that's such a loaded thing. Could have been worked on... if only your H was a different kind of guy... and it's easy to look back with 20/20 vision. I don't know, I'm still working out these thoughts in my head so I apologize for being so inarticulate. I'm working up the energy to go into this in more depth on my sitch. I am still working on the anger... SO MUCH ANGER.
But at the end of the day... I think it takes a really damaged person to do what our H's have done. Would we feel better if somehow there had been more conversation, and a real attempt at working on things... and somehow WE had been given a chance to come to the same conclusion (that we cannot have a happy marriage with this person). Is it mostly the fact that this major decision was just THRUST upon us, despite the fact that we weren't happy either?
Just some stuff to think about. I am going to try your visualization exercise tonight when I go to bed tonight. We are the only ones who can free ourselves from our anger and pain. And we can...
What you (and I, actually) are working through is not easy at all. I think you (and/or Labug) have asked me some version of the same question you were asked above: is there any answer to the question of "why?" that will somehow make this understandable? And I am right there with you on all the same points-- it all *could* have been worked on and improved.
But that's such a loaded thing. Could have been worked on... if only your H was a different kind of guy... and it's easy to look back with 20/20 vision. I don't know, I'm still working out these thoughts in my head so I apologize for being so inarticulate. I'm working up the energy to go into this in more depth on my sitch. I am still working on the anger... SO MUCH ANGER.
But at the end of the day... I think it takes a really damaged person to do what our H's have done. Would we feel better if somehow there had been more conversation, and a real attempt at working on things... and somehow WE had been given a chance to come to the same conclusion (that we cannot have a happy marriage with this person). Is it mostly the fact that this major decision was just THRUST upon us, despite the fact that we weren't happy either?
Just some stuff to think about. I am going to try your visualization exercise tonight when I go to bed tonight. We are the only ones who can free ourselves from our anger and pain. And we can...
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/02/15 02:15 AM
Somehow I think my anger has broken. At least for the moment. I'm tired and I just want to move past all this and be moving on, not in the middle of it anymore. I've done everything I could do. I have a nice little family and it's past time to just think of shaping my life.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/02/15 01:08 PM
Maybell, I like the exercise that you suggest about moving past anger. I do need to work on that. I waste so much mental energy feeling anger toward my H. It serves no purpose and holds me back.
It's interesting that your SIL would say that your H never shares anything real. My H is the same way. This is something to look out for in other potential partners in the future: a lack of emotional depth, and a lack of close, long-term friendships. I think those traits are indicative of a person who is not capable on a deep level of having lasting, loving commitments and empathy.
It's interesting that your SIL would say that your H never shares anything real. My H is the same way. This is something to look out for in other potential partners in the future: a lack of emotional depth, and a lack of close, long-term friendships. I think those traits are indicative of a person who is not capable on a deep level of having lasting, loving commitments and empathy.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/02/15 02:55 PM
You should feel your anger. Anger is a signal that there's something else. There's always something under the anger. When we get stuck in the anger, we don't look any further. It makes it about some ONE or some THING.
It sounds as if you are moving past it.
That should lighten your load.
It sounds as if you are moving past it.
That should lighten your load.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 01:26 AM
It is completely horrible to work to further a divorce you don't want.
Also I went to D11's first round of therapy today and there's nothing like going to therapy for making me feel like a complete failure in every area of my life that matters. Like it was totally inevitable my husband would fall out of love with me and that I deserved it because I'm so deeply flawed that I drive people away.
Also I went to D11's first round of therapy today and there's nothing like going to therapy for making me feel like a complete failure in every area of my life that matters. Like it was totally inevitable my husband would fall out of love with me and that I deserved it because I'm so deeply flawed that I drive people away.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 02:11 AM
Oh Maybell, what happened in therapy that makes you think so?
It's been terribly tough on me to learn so much about what makes a marriage tick now that mine is practically over. Not to mention everything that makes ME. I feel like the blind who can (almost) see finally. I feel like a failure too, but because I was ignorant, not because of my nature. Is it different for you? Do you feel the same person, the same W, the same mother as a year or two ago?
PS: You know how much I despise your H and a guy who can't differentiate erection from passion is not worth making you feel flawed. Oh, don't get me started on him but don't let his actions define you.
It's been terribly tough on me to learn so much about what makes a marriage tick now that mine is practically over. Not to mention everything that makes ME. I feel like the blind who can (almost) see finally. I feel like a failure too, but because I was ignorant, not because of my nature. Is it different for you? Do you feel the same person, the same W, the same mother as a year or two ago?
PS: You know how much I despise your H and a guy who can't differentiate erection from passion is not worth making you feel flawed. Oh, don't get me started on him but don't let his actions define you.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 02:33 AM
Maybell,
Whoah nelly. I read the first part of your post and thought, No, it's not. I'm considering the same thing.
I read the second part of your post and thought, hells to the no, honey. I'll be blunt-- you gotta get that toxic thinking out of your head. What the heck happened at counseling that led you to those thoughts!?
What's going on, MB?
Whoah nelly. I read the first part of your post and thought, No, it's not. I'm considering the same thing.
I read the second part of your post and thought, hells to the no, honey. I'll be blunt-- you gotta get that toxic thinking out of your head. What the heck happened at counseling that led you to those thoughts!?
What's going on, MB?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 02:54 AM
When I've gone to counseling with STBX or D11 I feel like so much of the focus is on the things I do wrong. With D11 it was about my temper. With STBX it was about how I was just not enough. How he could always tell when I was unhappy about something and about how it made him want to get away from me. People tell me I'm such a great person and I don't feel AT ALL like I'm even particularly likable. Other people do a better job of reaching out, of making kind gestures, of checking in, etc. I don't feel good about myself lately.
I think I realized tonight that a lot of my anger and resistance to dealing with all this was that I was so unwilling to believe that someone I *had* respected and cared for and committed to could be willing to take the actions my STBX has taken. I could not conceive that his values were so different than mine that he could actually be this guy.
In digging around to get the details for the financial disclosures that I need I went a little further into the details and found out that STBX has been spending money like CRAZY in the last few months... but let everything flow to my monitoring service in such a way that I couldn't see the details of what he was doing. I'm DISGUSTED. I haven't bought so much as a pair of pants for myself in the last three months. He doesn't seem to be sparing himself anything. Even had the nerve to buy himself a computer even though he's got a work laptop and an xBox One.
I don't want HIM back. He is clearly not the person I was hoping he wa. I want the life I thought I had. I'm still getting my head around the fact that I have a different life than the one I had. At least now I can be honest with my kids. That helps. But I feel awfully guilty for so many things. For not seeing him more clearly. For being willing to settle for who he is. For always stepping up to fill in his gaps. For being a little pleased when my kids come home from an evening or a weekend with him and express such relief at being home with me again. I feel like such a jerk.
Yesterday my mother said "I don't need to tell you that you're lovable. You just know that you are. It's obvious." And I wanted to cry and say, "NO! I don't!! Just tell me!" And she said "We're here for you, just tell us what you need." And I said "I would really appreciate it if you would come up and help me get settled in my new place when we move." And she hesitated and said, "Well, you know... your brother is coming to visit this summer." And I knew I couldn't count on them either.
I have plenty of other people who will help me. In all sorts of ways. If my parents AND my STBX think I'm worthless it's hard not to believe them. But I'm working on it.
I think I realized tonight that a lot of my anger and resistance to dealing with all this was that I was so unwilling to believe that someone I *had* respected and cared for and committed to could be willing to take the actions my STBX has taken. I could not conceive that his values were so different than mine that he could actually be this guy.
In digging around to get the details for the financial disclosures that I need I went a little further into the details and found out that STBX has been spending money like CRAZY in the last few months... but let everything flow to my monitoring service in such a way that I couldn't see the details of what he was doing. I'm DISGUSTED. I haven't bought so much as a pair of pants for myself in the last three months. He doesn't seem to be sparing himself anything. Even had the nerve to buy himself a computer even though he's got a work laptop and an xBox One.
I don't want HIM back. He is clearly not the person I was hoping he wa. I want the life I thought I had. I'm still getting my head around the fact that I have a different life than the one I had. At least now I can be honest with my kids. That helps. But I feel awfully guilty for so many things. For not seeing him more clearly. For being willing to settle for who he is. For always stepping up to fill in his gaps. For being a little pleased when my kids come home from an evening or a weekend with him and express such relief at being home with me again. I feel like such a jerk.
Yesterday my mother said "I don't need to tell you that you're lovable. You just know that you are. It's obvious." And I wanted to cry and say, "NO! I don't!! Just tell me!" And she said "We're here for you, just tell us what you need." And I said "I would really appreciate it if you would come up and help me get settled in my new place when we move." And she hesitated and said, "Well, you know... your brother is coming to visit this summer." And I knew I couldn't count on them either.
I have plenty of other people who will help me. In all sorts of ways. If my parents AND my STBX think I'm worthless it's hard not to believe them. But I'm working on it.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 12:41 PM
Maybell,
I'm sorry you're dealing with that. And it's particularly hard to feel rejected by parents. Your mother SAID the right things, but it doesn't sound like she's able to help in a concrete fashion. That's okay because this is your chance to prove to yourself how capable and strong you can be for your own self. You can figure out the move, I'm sure. Would it be nice to have their support? Of course. But you don't need it. What you needed was validation. Give it to yourself rather than asking it of others. You can't disappoint yourself. You already know not to have expectations of your H -- now apply that to the rest of the world. Manage what you're capable of. Ask for help when you need it (but don't count on it), and then just go on pushing forward and being awesome for your own sake.
Also, if your counselor is making you feel bad, I question whether he/she is the right counselor for you. You shouldn't feel blame -- you should be guided toward a better path.
Anyway, you sound down and negative, which I hate to hear. Just remember how strong and amazing you are. Even if you don't feel that way now. Even if you might not even believe it deep down. You just are. Now own it. You got this.
I'm sorry you're dealing with that. And it's particularly hard to feel rejected by parents. Your mother SAID the right things, but it doesn't sound like she's able to help in a concrete fashion. That's okay because this is your chance to prove to yourself how capable and strong you can be for your own self. You can figure out the move, I'm sure. Would it be nice to have their support? Of course. But you don't need it. What you needed was validation. Give it to yourself rather than asking it of others. You can't disappoint yourself. You already know not to have expectations of your H -- now apply that to the rest of the world. Manage what you're capable of. Ask for help when you need it (but don't count on it), and then just go on pushing forward and being awesome for your own sake.
Also, if your counselor is making you feel bad, I question whether he/she is the right counselor for you. You shouldn't feel blame -- you should be guided toward a better path.
Anyway, you sound down and negative, which I hate to hear. Just remember how strong and amazing you are. Even if you don't feel that way now. Even if you might not even believe it deep down. You just are. Now own it. You got this.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 02:21 PM
It's not that the therapist made me feel bad. It's that there are things about me that need to be fixed (or helped) and I'm SO TIRED of facing all my flaws.
Yes, I was seeking validation from my mother. I should know better. I've moved SIX times with no help from anybody (including STBX)except paid movers and I know for sure I can handle it -- although I have to say, I've never moved while holding down a full time job, and that was why I asked for help.
More later... I'll be better soon. I'm in a weird place at the moment.
Yes, I was seeking validation from my mother. I should know better. I've moved SIX times with no help from anybody (including STBX)except paid movers and I know for sure I can handle it -- although I have to say, I've never moved while holding down a full time job, and that was why I asked for help.
More later... I'll be better soon. I'm in a weird place at the moment.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 02:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
It's not that the therapist made me feel bad. It's that there are things about me that need to be fixed (or helped) and I'm SO TIRED of facing all my flaws.
Oh I hear you Maybell. I wonder if I'll ever be able to make even a tiny dint in them.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 03:31 PM
In the spirit of complete disclosure, I almost quit therapy on several occasions because I didn't want to do it any more. There was too much to fix, I just couldn't do it. I had a similar meltdown not long ago over not having the ability to be the mother my S22 needs.
Therapy shines a light on the darkest parts of us. The good news is we have the ability to change it. If we stay in the dark, we stay in the dark.
Be gentle with yourself. The fact that this is painful is the signal you can change.
Again, be gentle with yourself. When we know better we can do better.
((( )))
Therapy shines a light on the darkest parts of us. The good news is we have the ability to change it. If we stay in the dark, we stay in the dark.
Be gentle with yourself. The fact that this is painful is the signal you can change.
Again, be gentle with yourself. When we know better we can do better.
((( )))
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 03:36 PM
I agree with what labug said! You are doing the hard work now, but it will get better. Facing our own flaws is very challenging.
Just last night I was speaking with a coworker who was laughing about a little fit I threw at work years ago. I didn't even remember it! I said -- Are you sure that was me?! It just didn't jibe with my impression of myself. Then I apologized profusely for acting like a twerp in the past. I've definitely learned to be be a better colleague over the years. We can all improve in many ways. The opportunity for growth can be seen as an exciting adventure rather than a daunting chore. (sometimes)
Just last night I was speaking with a coworker who was laughing about a little fit I threw at work years ago. I didn't even remember it! I said -- Are you sure that was me?! It just didn't jibe with my impression of myself. Then I apologized profusely for acting like a twerp in the past. I've definitely learned to be be a better colleague over the years. We can all improve in many ways. The opportunity for growth can be seen as an exciting adventure rather than a daunting chore. (sometimes)
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 03:42 PM
Thanks, Bug. Sometimes you and Betsey sound so very evolved that I feel like I ought to be always soaring like a butterfly and never hanging out in the mud with the catfish. Sometimes I just feel like a catfish.
BTW, STBX reports that last night (kids spent the evening with him) he was getting very frustrated with D11 and she said "I feel like you are being unreasonable, can you explain why you are feeling that way?" So apparently despite the show of disdain in the office she got something out of it.
BTW, STBX reports that last night (kids spent the evening with him) he was getting very frustrated with D11 and she said "I feel like you are being unreasonable, can you explain why you are feeling that way?" So apparently despite the show of disdain in the office she got something out of it.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 04:24 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
In the spirit of complete disclosure, I almost quit therapy on several occasions because I didn't want to do it any more. There was too much to fix, I just couldn't do it. I had a similar meltdown not long ago over not having the ability to be the mother my S22 needs.
Therapy shines a light on the darkest parts of us. The good news is we have the ability to change it. If we stay in the dark, we stay in the dark.
Be gentle with yourself. The fact that this is painful is the signal you can change.
Again, be gentle with yourself. When we know better we can do better.
((( )))
Therapy shines a light on the darkest parts of us. The good news is we have the ability to change it. If we stay in the dark, we stay in the dark.
Be gentle with yourself. The fact that this is painful is the signal you can change.
Again, be gentle with yourself. When we know better we can do better.
((( )))
Bug, this is good to hear. I was in transactional analysis (TA) therapy for 3-4 years in the 90s and don't feel it did me that much good - some may say that is evident by that fact that on these boards. All it seemed to be for me was a talking shop. Yes, I recovered from the depression I was in after a previous split and life rut but I didn't really feel I had changed at all, it was just that I knew a bit more about myself, such as I am passive aggressive.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 04:24 PM
Maybell,
That is a big thing to keep in mind with tweens... they will never admit it, but they ARE listening. Believe none of what they say (haha).
I'm hearing that "I'm either perfect or worthless voice" in you lately... can you remind yourself of how strong you are... and that just because someone is incapable of acting the way you want (H, parents, kids)...it doesn't mean it is YOUR fault or that it reflects anything about you.
That said... what are the things you wish to change and grow about yourself--for you? What are your goals?
That is a big thing to keep in mind with tweens... they will never admit it, but they ARE listening. Believe none of what they say (haha).
I'm hearing that "I'm either perfect or worthless voice" in you lately... can you remind yourself of how strong you are... and that just because someone is incapable of acting the way you want (H, parents, kids)...it doesn't mean it is YOUR fault or that it reflects anything about you.
That said... what are the things you wish to change and grow about yourself--for you? What are your goals?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 04:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
BTW, STBX reports that last night (kids spent the evening with him) he was getting very frustrated with D11 and she said "I feel like you are being unreasonable, can you explain why you are feeling that way?" So apparently despite the show of disdain in the office she got something out of it.
Love it :-)
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 04:42 PM
Aww, Maybell.... well, can I just say that being more evolved just means I did the crime and I did the time? Remember, I've got 12 years of separation and divorce in my rear view mirror. That's a lot of time. Time to work on stuff.
I love that Bug said to be gentle with yourself. Count me in the club of feeling despair and hopelessness, coupled with a deep depression at the thought of feeling the climb uphill was nearly impossible. I do remember feeling that way for awhile.
Yes, I felt like a total loser sometimes. I usually spent the drive home bawling my eyes out, feeling like a human failure.
Maybell, would it help to reframe this whole thing? I don't know when it happened, but at some point in this process, I realized that I was defensive about change (mostly, I wanted others to change so I could feel happier about my lot in life); and when the light started to come on for me personally, I realized these flaws in me were making others unhappy (as well as myself) and they were actually a road map to a more joyful destination.
Same here with my D21. My anger was getting in the way with pretty much every relationship I had. But my daughter bore the brunt of it. I won't bore you with details, but your last paragraph in this post is undoubtedly the biggest clue you've got. Hint: family of origin issues that are playing out now in your R with your daughter. Your road map will fix that, with some recalibration and effort on your part.
Again, your last paragraph illustrates this one as well. It's really not your STBXH that causes you to feel less than, Maybell. If anything you're wanting your parents to be the parents you want them to be. It's a fair want. But from what you wrote (which bothers me, BTW, that your mom would offer help and then renege with conditions), they've not yet been able to be what you expect them to be--right or wrong--and it's time to stop having those expectations.
So you don't feel singled out, I'll say what I try not to say out loud - I'd rather lead you to draw your own conclusions. I think MANY of us are working out relationships with our families of origin in our present relationships, and trying to fix that is causing harm to them. We need to fix ourselves from the inside out first. For you, it's not accepting that you're not enough, Maybell. It's understanding that the people who birthed and raised you are flawed, and for whatever reason, they can't or won't be the parents you need them to be. Acceptance without attaching labels would help you a great deal. It's not because of you that they possess this characteristic, Maybell. It's because they 1) don't know how to change; or 2) they are afraid to change; or 3) they have no idea how they are impacts you so very much. Either way, it's time to forgive them, accept who they are (vs. who you want them to be) and learn how to see yourself in the light of YOUR truth. Without conditions or assumptions like "if only I was XXX, then they would XXX." It's so destructive, my friend.
Have any of them ever come out and told you that you're worthless, Maybell? Maybe they feel worthless themselves and since they don't know how to change, it's easier to push you away?
If I had any direction I'd love to shove you in private counseling, dearheart, it would be to work on why you assume that you're unlovable and worthless because of the decisions others make. Why you assume the worst about yourself when you're not the highlight of their issues? Why can't they be them independent of you being you? This is something that took me a LONG fricking time to work out, Maybell. Mine were tied to abandonment issues that I absorbed from others. I had to fix that in myself. What really helped was doing some hypnotherapy in the form of past life regression therapy. I'm not saying you should do that - it's such an individual thing - but some good, old fashioned therapy would do the trick just fine.
We're all works in progress, my friends. Not one of us is better than each other. We have flaws and defects and none of us is perfect. Of that, I'm sure. I'm also sure if you were a fly on the wall at a fantasy therapy session for your H, that he'd feel overwhelmed by the fix it list as well. He just may choose to ignore these things, and will continue to live his life on auto pilot, allowing things to happen to him rather than make things happen.
If you feel like a jerk, move over. There are plenty of us jerks who want to sit on the couch with you. It's as simple as that.
Hugs!
Betsey
I love that Bug said to be gentle with yourself. Count me in the club of feeling despair and hopelessness, coupled with a deep depression at the thought of feeling the climb uphill was nearly impossible. I do remember feeling that way for awhile.
Quote:
When I've gone to counseling with STBX or D11 I feel like so much of the focus is on the things I do wrong.
Yes, I felt like a total loser sometimes. I usually spent the drive home bawling my eyes out, feeling like a human failure.
Maybell, would it help to reframe this whole thing? I don't know when it happened, but at some point in this process, I realized that I was defensive about change (mostly, I wanted others to change so I could feel happier about my lot in life); and when the light started to come on for me personally, I realized these flaws in me were making others unhappy (as well as myself) and they were actually a road map to a more joyful destination.
Quote:
With D11 it was about my temper.
Same here with my D21. My anger was getting in the way with pretty much every relationship I had. But my daughter bore the brunt of it. I won't bore you with details, but your last paragraph in this post is undoubtedly the biggest clue you've got. Hint: family of origin issues that are playing out now in your R with your daughter. Your road map will fix that, with some recalibration and effort on your part.
Quote:
With STBX it was about how I was just not enough.
Again, your last paragraph illustrates this one as well. It's really not your STBXH that causes you to feel less than, Maybell. If anything you're wanting your parents to be the parents you want them to be. It's a fair want. But from what you wrote (which bothers me, BTW, that your mom would offer help and then renege with conditions), they've not yet been able to be what you expect them to be--right or wrong--and it's time to stop having those expectations.
So you don't feel singled out, I'll say what I try not to say out loud - I'd rather lead you to draw your own conclusions. I think MANY of us are working out relationships with our families of origin in our present relationships, and trying to fix that is causing harm to them. We need to fix ourselves from the inside out first. For you, it's not accepting that you're not enough, Maybell. It's understanding that the people who birthed and raised you are flawed, and for whatever reason, they can't or won't be the parents you need them to be. Acceptance without attaching labels would help you a great deal. It's not because of you that they possess this characteristic, Maybell. It's because they 1) don't know how to change; or 2) they are afraid to change; or 3) they have no idea how they are impacts you so very much. Either way, it's time to forgive them, accept who they are (vs. who you want them to be) and learn how to see yourself in the light of YOUR truth. Without conditions or assumptions like "if only I was XXX, then they would XXX." It's so destructive, my friend.
Quote:
If my parents AND my STBX think I'm worthless it's hard not to believe them. But I'm working on it.
Have any of them ever come out and told you that you're worthless, Maybell? Maybe they feel worthless themselves and since they don't know how to change, it's easier to push you away?
If I had any direction I'd love to shove you in private counseling, dearheart, it would be to work on why you assume that you're unlovable and worthless because of the decisions others make. Why you assume the worst about yourself when you're not the highlight of their issues? Why can't they be them independent of you being you? This is something that took me a LONG fricking time to work out, Maybell. Mine were tied to abandonment issues that I absorbed from others. I had to fix that in myself. What really helped was doing some hypnotherapy in the form of past life regression therapy. I'm not saying you should do that - it's such an individual thing - but some good, old fashioned therapy would do the trick just fine.
We're all works in progress, my friends. Not one of us is better than each other. We have flaws and defects and none of us is perfect. Of that, I'm sure. I'm also sure if you were a fly on the wall at a fantasy therapy session for your H, that he'd feel overwhelmed by the fix it list as well. He just may choose to ignore these things, and will continue to live his life on auto pilot, allowing things to happen to him rather than make things happen.
If you feel like a jerk, move over. There are plenty of us jerks who want to sit on the couch with you. It's as simple as that.
Hugs!
Betsey
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 04:44 PM
Claire, you NAILED what I was trying to say, perfectly!:
Maybell, there's nothing wrong with you. Really. Your filter is broken. That's what needs to be changed. You wouldn't get rid of a furnace that needs a new air filter, would you?
Just so you know, you're neither perfect nor worthless...
Quote:
I'm hearing that "I'm either perfect or worthless voice" in you lately...
Maybell, there's nothing wrong with you. Really. Your filter is broken. That's what needs to be changed. You wouldn't get rid of a furnace that needs a new air filter, would you?
Just so you know, you're neither perfect nor worthless...
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/03/15 04:57 PM
And know this Maybell. You are a tower of strength and an inspiration to many others on here just by being you.
You have certainly helped me and I thank you for it.
You have certainly helped me and I thank you for it.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 01:46 AM
I decided to declare my paperwork DONE and took it to the lawyer's office. I can chase the bits and pieces down when he tells me which bits are important. Made the follow-up appointment this afternoon. I could have puttered over the thing for another year to make it perfect and all it would have done is make me miserable. The load I felt off my shoulders when I made the follow up appointment was huge. I think the weight of the effort was a big part of what was keeping me down. It still hurts to think that this is where we ended up. I see other couples struggling with much more challenging issues and demonstrating caring and commitment.
This isn't what I signed up for, but most of what I've had in my life isn't really, so I'd might as well OWN WHAT I'VE GOT and be a happy woman.
Evening with the kids was pretty good. D11 was surly and fairly unpleasant, but when I failed to overreact to her unpleasantness, she backed down and did what I asked of her. And she did it reasonably well and quickly too. I praised her and thanked her and let her go take ANOTHER hot bath.
I also got to help S9 with his homework this evening. It is a pleasure to see how his mind works -- he did a fairly complicated problem in his head. He's a smart cookie. Then he had a meltdown about picking up Legos and then we read The Hobbit which is fun. I said "You've had a lot of changes in a small amount of time. Are you doing OK?" We talked for a few minutes about the differences and he assured me he likes the new babysitter so that was reassuring.
S7 said also what he likes about the new sitter and I said we would try doing more of that when I'm home too.
I admit I'm not totally comfortable with the new babysitter yet. I don't have any particular reason to be suspicious but I've invested a lot of trust in her and I feel vulnerable.
All will be well and... well, I know the drill.
This isn't what I signed up for, but most of what I've had in my life isn't really, so I'd might as well OWN WHAT I'VE GOT and be a happy woman.
Evening with the kids was pretty good. D11 was surly and fairly unpleasant, but when I failed to overreact to her unpleasantness, she backed down and did what I asked of her. And she did it reasonably well and quickly too. I praised her and thanked her and let her go take ANOTHER hot bath.
I also got to help S9 with his homework this evening. It is a pleasure to see how his mind works -- he did a fairly complicated problem in his head. He's a smart cookie. Then he had a meltdown about picking up Legos and then we read The Hobbit which is fun. I said "You've had a lot of changes in a small amount of time. Are you doing OK?" We talked for a few minutes about the differences and he assured me he likes the new babysitter so that was reassuring.
S7 said also what he likes about the new sitter and I said we would try doing more of that when I'm home too.
I admit I'm not totally comfortable with the new babysitter yet. I don't have any particular reason to be suspicious but I've invested a lot of trust in her and I feel vulnerable.
All will be well and... well, I know the drill.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 01:53 AM
Good to hear you sounding strong, Maybell. Kudos on getting the paperwork done. I can't wait to get there myself.
Stay awesome.
Stay awesome.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 02:21 PM
This morning I was thinking about STBX's claim that he was leaving to find himself because he knows everyone better than he knows himself. And I was feeling down about it, until I realized: what he has discovered about himself is that he is an unreliable guy who will lie, cheat, hurt people who love him and to whom he has a responsibility. Also that he's more than capable of lying to himself about who he is. It must svck to learn that about himself. Assuming he's noticed.
I'm starting to feel like a woman waking up from a long nap (Rip Van Winkle? Sleeping Beauty?). I looked around my house today and thought, how did I let it get so cluttered? My boys were milling around waiting for instructions. They take zero initiative -- it's time for me to start parenting some self-sufficiency into them.
Turning in that paperwork to the lawyer lightened my load so much. I feel my energy rising -- like sap in a tree in the spring. Time to get to work.
I'm starting to feel like a woman waking up from a long nap (Rip Van Winkle? Sleeping Beauty?). I looked around my house today and thought, how did I let it get so cluttered? My boys were milling around waiting for instructions. They take zero initiative -- it's time for me to start parenting some self-sufficiency into them.
Turning in that paperwork to the lawyer lightened my load so much. I feel my energy rising -- like sap in a tree in the spring. Time to get to work.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 02:32 PM
Maybell,
Nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve learned so much from reading your story and following your journey.
I can’t say it any better than Old Dog:
Thank-you and take care! hugs
Originally Posted By: Maybell
If my parents AND my STBX think I'm worthless it's hard not to believe them.
Nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve learned so much from reading your story and following your journey.
I can’t say it any better than Old Dog:
Originally Posted By: Old Dog
And know this Maybell. You are a tower of strength and an inspiration to many others on here just by being you.
You have certainly helped me and I thank you for it.
You have certainly helped me and I thank you for it.
Thank-you and take care! hugs
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 02:47 PM
Maybell, that whole rigamarole about "finding themselves" is so ridiculous. And you're right that he probably doesn't notice the kind of person he's become. I love the sap rising metaphor. I can't wait to get my paperwork filed and join you in that next step of moving forward. Thank you for all your kind words of support, always. You are truly an inspiration.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 03:25 PM
Quote:
his morning I was thinking about STBX's claim that he was leaving to find himself because he knows everyone better than he knows himself. And I was feeling down about it, until I realized: what he has discovered about himself is that he is an unreliable guy who will lie, cheat, hurt people who love him and to whom he has a responsibility. Also that he's more than capable of lying to himself about who he is. It must svck to learn that about himself. Assuming he's noticed.
Maybell, this is a gentle reminder to watch this type of internal narrative. It's judgmental and assuming, and it doesn't work in good relationships with anyone. I would hate to be on the end of this narrative. Simply put? You don't know what is going on in someone else's head and you can't know how they are managing it. Remember the advice to assume that other people are doing the best job they can with the tools they have today? It will go a LONG way in exhibiting compassion and empathy for others. It's never about us.
I have to say that my dad had a similar response as yours when I was in my 20s and in a crisis of sorts. I told him I needed some time to figure stuff out, and asked if he would support a semester off from school. He mocked me instead. I literally hated him for not trying to understand how disconnected I was with myself. We could barely speak for a few years, and my mom was the one voice of sanity for me. I wasn't sure about my faith. I wasn't sure who I was. I wasn't sure if my friends were supporting my wariness or being supportive of me getting answers. I didn't feel at home in my own skin, and I honestly didn't know where to begin so I could feel better. I had 2 sets of friends: my party crowd (who I can see now were never friends) and the ones who truly cared. The first thing I did was dump my party pals. They had a similar reaction to this ^^^. Sure, they had a 50-50 chance of being right. But they weren't. They wanted me drinking, smoking pot and going to parties instead of getting my degree. I was called a snob. Someone who got too into herself over nothing. And they called me judgmental. It was not about them. I realized that the lifestyle no longer worked for me.
I'm not saying that your H's choices are stellar by our norms or society's in general. But you really have no idea what he's feeling, and it's not serving you well to have these types of internal dialogues. I think most everyone has a time of crisis in their life. Maybe 2. I would want anyone who cared about me to give me a break.
On a positive note, the Rip Van Winkle metaphor is a good one. Use your super powers for this type of good. It's positive and uplifting. And it will make a difference.
Hugs-
Betsey
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 04:33 PM
Maybell,
Of course I agree with Underdog that people have crises all the time. I think perhaps the difference in the crisis Underdog describes and the one your and my H are going through is that in our cases, the Hs are doing significant harm to others through their actions and are not being honest. It's hard not to want to develop a narrative to explain their confusing behavior. But Underdog is right in that it does us no good to try to come up with a narrative -- there is no explanation that will really help.
Of course I agree with Underdog that people have crises all the time. I think perhaps the difference in the crisis Underdog describes and the one your and my H are going through is that in our cases, the Hs are doing significant harm to others through their actions and are not being honest. It's hard not to want to develop a narrative to explain their confusing behavior. But Underdog is right in that it does us no good to try to come up with a narrative -- there is no explanation that will really help.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 05:01 PM
OK, Betsey, I take your point. I don't like it, but I take it.
I do question how he expected to find himself in one-night stands and why it was necessary to lie to me CONSTANTLY in order to find himself all while claiming he wanted to get away from me so he can be authentic. But OK. It's not constructive so I will try not to do it.
I do question how he expected to find himself in one-night stands and why it was necessary to lie to me CONSTANTLY in order to find himself all while claiming he wanted to get away from me so he can be authentic. But OK. It's not constructive so I will try not to do it.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/04/15 08:31 PM
Why not turn that around into something that is about you and authentic?
Instead of this cheeseless tunnel and trap:
Try this instead:
"I wonder why I chose to overlook my feelings that something was amiss in my marriage? I wonder why I felt it was in my best interest not to ask more direct questions and get answers, because it's important to me to have truth in my marriage?"
Empower yourself, my friend. It's nothing but a tweak in your head, Maybell. As I said yesterday, your filter need to be changed.
Instead of this cheeseless tunnel and trap:
Quote:
I do question how he expected to find himself in one-night stands and why it was necessary to lie to me CONSTANTLY in order to find himself all while claiming he wanted to get away from me so he can be authentic.
Try this instead:
"I wonder why I chose to overlook my feelings that something was amiss in my marriage? I wonder why I felt it was in my best interest not to ask more direct questions and get answers, because it's important to me to have truth in my marriage?"
Empower yourself, my friend. It's nothing but a tweak in your head, Maybell. As I said yesterday, your filter need to be changed.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/05/15 02:31 PM
Snow day today!
So I was browsing through Pinterest with my morning coffee. I have an inspiration board of quotes and the line of thought running through the back of my mind was about simple living, time management, and how to make my new home more zen. Betsey's observations about my filter were all mixed up in there too, and thoughts of how much more accepting I am of other people's flaws than of my own. Then my friend T texted me.
T has been a rock for me through all this. When I was in my darkest moments she checked in with me constantly so I wouldn't feel alone. I don't know how many times I cried into warm beverages in her kitchen. She's been full of support and wisdom and cheer. She is so wonderful. She was the first one, in one of my darkest days before I found this forum, to tell me I needed to find my sense of worth.
She's also part of one of the most exciting marriages I've ever witnessed. Not that their days are so exciting in the adventure sense, but that they are mutually involved (not merely supportive) in one another's aspirations. They have complaints about each other but they are also full of praise for one another. They laugh. They both Show Up for each other. They both describe themselves as lucky to be with the other.
T told me a few months ago that she absolutely feels pretty. I think that's a big part of her success. She never has to fight herself to do the things she cares about. And in addition to her beautiful marriage she achieves amazing things daily.
All this went through my head this morning and it occurred to me that feeling myself as beautiful is a sense I can cultivate the same as happiness. I'm not sure exactly how to do it but I decided that for today that means avoiding the things that make me feel ugly. To move closer to my dream of a zen home HERE and as much as possible reinforce YES and CAN and watch for no and helplessness so I can be aware enough to contradict them.
I found a cool quote today that I need to go back to. I can't remember it exactly so I'm not going to spoil it -- but I think I'm going to change my tag line. I can do better than merely "well."
So I was browsing through Pinterest with my morning coffee. I have an inspiration board of quotes and the line of thought running through the back of my mind was about simple living, time management, and how to make my new home more zen. Betsey's observations about my filter were all mixed up in there too, and thoughts of how much more accepting I am of other people's flaws than of my own. Then my friend T texted me.
T has been a rock for me through all this. When I was in my darkest moments she checked in with me constantly so I wouldn't feel alone. I don't know how many times I cried into warm beverages in her kitchen. She's been full of support and wisdom and cheer. She is so wonderful. She was the first one, in one of my darkest days before I found this forum, to tell me I needed to find my sense of worth.
She's also part of one of the most exciting marriages I've ever witnessed. Not that their days are so exciting in the adventure sense, but that they are mutually involved (not merely supportive) in one another's aspirations. They have complaints about each other but they are also full of praise for one another. They laugh. They both Show Up for each other. They both describe themselves as lucky to be with the other.
T told me a few months ago that she absolutely feels pretty. I think that's a big part of her success. She never has to fight herself to do the things she cares about. And in addition to her beautiful marriage she achieves amazing things daily.
All this went through my head this morning and it occurred to me that feeling myself as beautiful is a sense I can cultivate the same as happiness. I'm not sure exactly how to do it but I decided that for today that means avoiding the things that make me feel ugly. To move closer to my dream of a zen home HERE and as much as possible reinforce YES and CAN and watch for no and helplessness so I can be aware enough to contradict them.
I found a cool quote today that I need to go back to. I can't remember it exactly so I'm not going to spoil it -- but I think I'm going to change my tag line. I can do better than merely "well."
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/05/15 02:42 PM
Maybe you should try to steal her husband...
OK, seriously, first off I'm happy you have a friend like that. I do as well. It's good to have someone in your corner.
I posted something on my thread you might enjoy. Not on subject, but check it out.
What comes to my mind when I read your thread, though, is the difference between how you feel and how things are.
So again (I'll beat this to death), I play a LOT of games. I am a super competitor. And what I've learned is that how I feel doesn't have anything to do with reality. I might be playing a game and I FEEL helplessly lost. I FEEL outclassed. I FEEL like I'm off my game.
But what makes me a consistent winner is that even when I FEEL that way, I don't let those feelings control my actions. Instead I do what works. I don't give up. I make good decisions. I try my hardest on every opportunity. And I have FAITH that if I do those things, good things will happen despite how I FEEL.
Sure enough, something good will happen. I'll catch a break. My opponent will fumble. Something. Suddenly good things start going my way, and I make a seemingly miraculous comeback.
I've been told I'm the best at "coming from behind" around, and people tell me it's amazing how no matter how far behind I am I never get discouraged. I laugh. I sure DO get discouraged. But I've learned when you don't let emotions steer your ship and do what's effective, eventually you succeed and the positive emotions will come as a result of your success.
You may feel worthless, broken, ugly, etc. Whatever. Make good decisions today and when you look in the mirror tonight you'll FEEL a WHOLE LOT BETTER!
TAKE CARE!
OK, seriously, first off I'm happy you have a friend like that. I do as well. It's good to have someone in your corner.
I posted something on my thread you might enjoy. Not on subject, but check it out.
What comes to my mind when I read your thread, though, is the difference between how you feel and how things are.
So again (I'll beat this to death), I play a LOT of games. I am a super competitor. And what I've learned is that how I feel doesn't have anything to do with reality. I might be playing a game and I FEEL helplessly lost. I FEEL outclassed. I FEEL like I'm off my game.
But what makes me a consistent winner is that even when I FEEL that way, I don't let those feelings control my actions. Instead I do what works. I don't give up. I make good decisions. I try my hardest on every opportunity. And I have FAITH that if I do those things, good things will happen despite how I FEEL.
Sure enough, something good will happen. I'll catch a break. My opponent will fumble. Something. Suddenly good things start going my way, and I make a seemingly miraculous comeback.
I've been told I'm the best at "coming from behind" around, and people tell me it's amazing how no matter how far behind I am I never get discouraged. I laugh. I sure DO get discouraged. But I've learned when you don't let emotions steer your ship and do what's effective, eventually you succeed and the positive emotions will come as a result of your success.
You may feel worthless, broken, ugly, etc. Whatever. Make good decisions today and when you look in the mirror tonight you'll FEEL a WHOLE LOT BETTER!
TAKE CARE!
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/05/15 03:05 PM
Maybell, Bets has been recommending Cheryl Richardson to me. I had a book of hers from years ago that I had tried to read and I just couldn't get through it. But I took another look and I'm ready now. Maybe you are, too. I think it would help you with the way you view yourself.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/05/15 06:05 PM
I love your new quote! I think along the same lines of feeling pretty, and focusing on what makes you beautiful is keeping a gratitude journal. A few years ago I would keep one on and off. It did help through the beginning of this journey, but I kind of fallen off the wagon. I got too caught up in the misery after the last yo-yo. But I downloaded an app called gratitude! and it reminds me every day to make a list. I need it more than ever because my confidence is shaken in almost every way. Winters are always hard for me, my emotions are very tied to seasonal shifts and I always get the winter blues. So forcing myself every day to list 5 things I am grateful for--especially the things that I a not sure about--helps. For example, I woke up one day feeling worrried about a work situation so I made sure I added "Thank you for giving me the confidence and competence to succeed." And it really helped and made for a great day.
Finding the silver linings in the dark clouds and focusing on that is really helpful in making easier to face reality.
Finding the silver linings in the dark clouds and focusing on that is really helpful in making easier to face reality.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/06/15 03:54 AM
Hey Maybell,
Just here to offer my support, sorry you're going thru a tough time but I'm glad to see your last post sounds more positive and like you're coming out on the other side (again!)
J
Just here to offer my support, sorry you're going thru a tough time but I'm glad to see your last post sounds more positive and like you're coming out on the other side (again!)
J
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/06/15 12:00 PM
Originally Posted By: Underdog
Why not turn that around into something that is about you and authentic?
Instead of this cheeseless tunnel and trap:
Try this instead:
"I wonder why I chose to overlook my feelings that something was amiss in my marriage? I wonder why I felt it was in my best interest not to ask more direct questions and get answers, because it's important to me to have truth in my marriage?"
Empower yourself, my friend. It's nothing but a tweak in your head, Maybell. As I said yesterday, your filter need to be changed.
Instead of this cheeseless tunnel and trap:
Originally Posted By: Maybell
I do question how he expected to find himself in one-night stands and why it was necessary to lie to me CONSTANTLY in order to find himself all while claiming he wanted to get away from me so he can be authentic.
Try this instead:
"I wonder why I chose to overlook my feelings that something was amiss in my marriage? I wonder why I felt it was in my best interest not to ask more direct questions and get answers, because it's important to me to have truth in my marriage?"
Empower yourself, my friend. It's nothing but a tweak in your head, Maybell. As I said yesterday, your filter need to be changed.
Gosh! I do like this.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/06/15 12:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Underdog
Try this instead:
"I wonder why I chose to overlook my feelings that something was amiss in my marriage? I wonder why I felt it was in my best interest not to ask more direct questions and get answers, because it's important to me to have truth in my marriage?"
Empower yourself, my friend. It's nothing but a tweak in your head, Maybell. As I said yesterday, your filter need to be changed.
Wow. UD I know this was meant for Maybell, but you gave me a lot to think about! Thanks.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/06/15 01:29 PM
Maybell
Have you thought this was H being authentic?
Authentic to his core beliefs at that time? Trying to have his cake, eat it and save it for later? Sounds like classic gas lighting. Maybell, you did not cause it, you cannot control it, nor can you cure it.
This type of waywardness is way out of order. A major boundary infringement and it is past. The boundary for you is truth, not secretiveness or lying by omission.
It stinks and of course we play our own part by being wilfully blind when all the signs are there. Some waywards are clever and manipulative, I undertook an exercise on my own thread to examine the abusive nature of H and his communications. I have only myself to hold to account on it for not identifying and putting in my boundaries.
Abuse Communications Exercise from 12 steps
It could be useful to you but is more about verbal communications than an A. In my case H main A was gambling. Although he chases POWs, now quite openly. Boundary infringed if near me.
Maybell, like me you have been here for the long term growth of Maybell. 31 threads and now I have read them all! What a journey you are on, and such growth with grace and charm. V takes her jaunty hat off to Maybell.
Come for a wild ride in a little red convertible just for the exhilaration of it.
V
Have you thought this was H being authentic?
Authentic to his core beliefs at that time? Trying to have his cake, eat it and save it for later? Sounds like classic gas lighting. Maybell, you did not cause it, you cannot control it, nor can you cure it.
This type of waywardness is way out of order. A major boundary infringement and it is past. The boundary for you is truth, not secretiveness or lying by omission.
It stinks and of course we play our own part by being wilfully blind when all the signs are there. Some waywards are clever and manipulative, I undertook an exercise on my own thread to examine the abusive nature of H and his communications. I have only myself to hold to account on it for not identifying and putting in my boundaries.
Abuse Communications Exercise from 12 steps
It could be useful to you but is more about verbal communications than an A. In my case H main A was gambling. Although he chases POWs, now quite openly. Boundary infringed if near me.
Maybell, like me you have been here for the long term growth of Maybell. 31 threads and now I have read them all! What a journey you are on, and such growth with grace and charm. V takes her jaunty hat off to Maybell.
Come for a wild ride in a little red convertible just for the exhilaration of it.
V
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/06/15 04:15 PM
Well, that more authentic response was the result of having to go through the same mine fields. I share this in common with Maybell. I was angry all the time because people didn't do the right thing. The right thing according to me and my lofty expectations and beliefs. And I was miserable because of all these people who continually let me down.
Therapy was the answer to figuring out why I was so angry. Listening to Fr. Tom Allender's discussion on transcending anger was my breaking point. It took 4 CDs for me to figure out that I was mad at myself. From that time forward, it became part of my personal mission statement to seek authenticity. To force actions to have more of a say than words. And to put my intuitive gut feelings to work helping me seek information I need to make good decisions for myself.
There's a trick to all of this though. It means that others will hold you in the same light and you'll need to be authentic back with them by offering your truths so they can shed light on what information they need in order to be in a R with us. It's intimate and frightening, not to mention humbling and full of grace. I personally think it's what defines us as humans.
BTW, Vanilla, I love your suggestions and commentary. Awesome nuggets there for those who want and need to dig deeper.
How ya doing, Maybell?
Therapy was the answer to figuring out why I was so angry. Listening to Fr. Tom Allender's discussion on transcending anger was my breaking point. It took 4 CDs for me to figure out that I was mad at myself. From that time forward, it became part of my personal mission statement to seek authenticity. To force actions to have more of a say than words. And to put my intuitive gut feelings to work helping me seek information I need to make good decisions for myself.
There's a trick to all of this though. It means that others will hold you in the same light and you'll need to be authentic back with them by offering your truths so they can shed light on what information they need in order to be in a R with us. It's intimate and frightening, not to mention humbling and full of grace. I personally think it's what defines us as humans.
BTW, Vanilla, I love your suggestions and commentary. Awesome nuggets there for those who want and need to dig deeper.
How ya doing, Maybell?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/07/15 03:53 PM
Thank you for the compliment and the Alexander tip Underdog.
V
V
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/07/15 07:00 PM
This was my week for dealing with boundary incursions. D11. The new babysitter (still sorting this one out in my head). Even my boss.
These are all people I need in my life right now, so I've got to figure this out.
I liked how you reframed that for me, Betsey, I'm wrestling with it a lot.
I think I need to ponder a little more. Last night and today were really good so far. Lots of time with friends. I had the opportunity to be really helpful to my good friends and that felt wonderful. I've got down time today which I haven't had in weeks and weeks and I intend to put it to good use. Tomorrow also I have really good plans, a combination of GAL and resetting. This weekend seems to be what I need at this time.
These are all people I need in my life right now, so I've got to figure this out.
I liked how you reframed that for me, Betsey, I'm wrestling with it a lot.
I think I need to ponder a little more. Last night and today were really good so far. Lots of time with friends. I had the opportunity to be really helpful to my good friends and that felt wonderful. I've got down time today which I haven't had in weeks and weeks and I intend to put it to good use. Tomorrow also I have really good plans, a combination of GAL and resetting. This weekend seems to be what I need at this time.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/08/15 12:14 AM
This morning I went to help some friends who've just bought a business get organized. I LOVED it. I felt thrilled to be part of the lives of people in such a meaningful way. All I did was paint a room, but every time they go in there they will have a tangible reminder of my caring and appreciation for them. That makes me really happy. These friends have been a real treasure. I want to be able to show them my appreciation.
This afternoon I've just been kind of lounging. Remembering who I am. Getting in touch with my creativity again. (Also cleaning out my DVR but I am feeling rested so it was a well-spent day).
I've been wrestling with this.
I think I knew he wouldn't answer me. I'd been begging him to be more open with me (in a general sense) and more engaged for... well, basically our entire marriage. I knew always that if anything really bad happened in our life (like, one of the kids getting cancer or hit by a car or something) that we would fall apart.** I knew the marriage wasn't a strong one. But I never felt like I could do anything other than endure it. Marriage is forever and it was my responsibility to remain true to my commitment. STBX wasn't capable of doing any better than he was doing and that was just how things were.
Why did I tolerate that?
Why did I move cross-country TWICE (the first time against my desire) for this poor marriage?
What did I think would happen?
First stabs:
-- Duty, to my commitment, my then H, my kids, our families.
-- Powerlessness. I didn't believe I could be OK alone.
-- Lack of imagination. If I'm not a wife then what would I be? I'd have to decide, and I didn't feel ready to make a choice about how to live as an adult.
-- Fear. Three little kids and a worthless mom? No.
-- Lack of support. I didn't realize how many people have my back.
-- Inertia. Not knowing better. Happiness is for other people.
Scared again but it will be OK.
This afternoon I've just been kind of lounging. Remembering who I am. Getting in touch with my creativity again. (Also cleaning out my DVR but I am feeling rested so it was a well-spent day).
Quote:
"I wonder why I chose to overlook my feelings that something was amiss in my marriage? I wonder why I felt it was in my best interest not to ask more direct questions and get answers, because it's important to me to have truth in my marriage?"
I've been wrestling with this.
I think I knew he wouldn't answer me. I'd been begging him to be more open with me (in a general sense) and more engaged for... well, basically our entire marriage. I knew always that if anything really bad happened in our life (like, one of the kids getting cancer or hit by a car or something) that we would fall apart.** I knew the marriage wasn't a strong one. But I never felt like I could do anything other than endure it. Marriage is forever and it was my responsibility to remain true to my commitment. STBX wasn't capable of doing any better than he was doing and that was just how things were.
Why did I tolerate that?
Why did I move cross-country TWICE (the first time against my desire) for this poor marriage?
What did I think would happen?
First stabs:
-- Duty, to my commitment, my then H, my kids, our families.
-- Powerlessness. I didn't believe I could be OK alone.
-- Lack of imagination. If I'm not a wife then what would I be? I'd have to decide, and I didn't feel ready to make a choice about how to live as an adult.
-- Fear. Three little kids and a worthless mom? No.
-- Lack of support. I didn't realize how many people have my back.
-- Inertia. Not knowing better. Happiness is for other people.
Scared again but it will be OK.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/08/15 12:46 AM
Maybell
It matters not a jot, memory is faulty and the picture unreliable. H is H and H was H with his own journey.
Maybell
This is past. You did what you did. At the time for all the best reasons with the information you had at that time.
Maybell
The past is gone, done, over, finished. Even if you could examine it under a microscope that would make no change. Like a kaleidoscope the pattern will change next time you look at it.
Maybell
You are looking backwards as if it changes anything. This is a waste of Maybell and her resources.
Maybell
Turn around, face forwards instead. Enjoy today, today is yours to have. Today can be changed, today can be influenced.
V
It matters not a jot, memory is faulty and the picture unreliable. H is H and H was H with his own journey.
Maybell
This is past. You did what you did. At the time for all the best reasons with the information you had at that time.
Maybell
The past is gone, done, over, finished. Even if you could examine it under a microscope that would make no change. Like a kaleidoscope the pattern will change next time you look at it.
Maybell
You are looking backwards as if it changes anything. This is a waste of Maybell and her resources.
Maybell
Turn around, face forwards instead. Enjoy today, today is yours to have. Today can be changed, today can be influenced.
V
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/08/15 12:59 AM
No, Vanilla, I'm contemplating why I did that because I feel like it gives some insight into what might hold me back now. Betsey challenged me to turn my anger around in a way that would help me move forward. So I can change what I think my life can be and make this experience mean growth rather than pain.
BTW, I can't believe you read all 31 of my threads! That's heroic. There was a lot of anger and pain and misery in there, among other things. I don't know if I have the courage to go through them myself. Thank you very much for following my story.
BTW, I can't believe you read all 31 of my threads! That's heroic. There was a lot of anger and pain and misery in there, among other things. I don't know if I have the courage to go through them myself. Thank you very much for following my story.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/08/15 01:32 AM
Maybell
The past is gone. It need not hold you back! But keep re examining it will.
If you want to reframe your anger then there is a boundary infringement today and I believe you could tackle that.
So what bothers Maybell today? What angers her today?
If as V suspects it is the 'waste' of the past then by examining it are you not causing pain today? Ruminating on the past may be causing you pain dear one.
Reading extracts of your own threads is likely to make you smile and cry. There is pain, struggle but there is laughter and joy also. That is easy to dismiss, and your journey is uniquely yours and I can tell you there are some happy times too. It is no dark forest but a place full of fairy folk, wood elves and squirrels. Recommended.
V
The past is gone. It need not hold you back! But keep re examining it will.
If you want to reframe your anger then there is a boundary infringement today and I believe you could tackle that.
So what bothers Maybell today? What angers her today?
If as V suspects it is the 'waste' of the past then by examining it are you not causing pain today? Ruminating on the past may be causing you pain dear one.
Reading extracts of your own threads is likely to make you smile and cry. There is pain, struggle but there is laughter and joy also. That is easy to dismiss, and your journey is uniquely yours and I can tell you there are some happy times too. It is no dark forest but a place full of fairy folk, wood elves and squirrels. Recommended.
V
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/08/15 01:37 AM
And Thumper too!
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/08/15 01:42 AM
I feel good today. But Betsey sets me good challenges and I like to engage with them before too much time passes because those practices help me grow.
Today I am not angry. I'm gathering my strength and getting excited about my future. But that future will include STBX and I would like to understand myself so that he and I have a working co-parent relationship.
The friends I helped today have been through TREMENDOUS challenges as a couple and they will continue to face tremendous challenges together. Their marriage has been hugely rocked but they both have worked to make it work. Seeing people who are committed to one another even when their marriages are difficult really helps put mine in perspective for me. I am disappointed that mine fell to bits. But in many ways I think it was inevitable. I had some things to learn ABOUT MYSELF. This is separate from STBX who had his own failings that made the death of our M inevitable. I would like to have this experience ONLY ONCE. Ergo, a little rearview mirror check.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 01:15 AM
STBX dropped the kids off a bit ago and stopped to do a parenting check-in. Then he left.
I feel like I've gone through the looking glass. Is this really how things are now? is this really my life? How did we get here?
Except we're not a we. He's asked me to let him evict us from our house that we bought after he already emotionally committed himself to a set of cliched choices. And I'm doing it because so little of how my life is set up works without him in it.
How did I get here?
And I'm watching how I talk to my kids and realizing I need to come back and be aware and present again.
There's an issue I need some perspective on. I bought D11 some concert tickets for a Christmas gift. At the time I bought the tickets the summer was unscheduled. Then STBX's sister invited us to include D11 to a week long sleep-away camp with her cousins. The tickets interfere with what STBX had decided to do with his vacation (visiting his family for a week) so his solution is to keep his plans as they were and let her spend that week with me.
I pointed out that that means I won't have a week off all summer as he will and he shrugged and said "well, you bought the tickets." (But we agreed jointly to let her go to the camp!)
Am I being unreasonable in wanting him to adjust his travel plans -- which, after all, are 100% flexible and only involve sitting around his parents' house and no plane tickets. Is this a battle worth fighting?
I feel like I've gone through the looking glass. Is this really how things are now? is this really my life? How did we get here?
Except we're not a we. He's asked me to let him evict us from our house that we bought after he already emotionally committed himself to a set of cliched choices. And I'm doing it because so little of how my life is set up works without him in it.
How did I get here?
And I'm watching how I talk to my kids and realizing I need to come back and be aware and present again.
There's an issue I need some perspective on. I bought D11 some concert tickets for a Christmas gift. At the time I bought the tickets the summer was unscheduled. Then STBX's sister invited us to include D11 to a week long sleep-away camp with her cousins. The tickets interfere with what STBX had decided to do with his vacation (visiting his family for a week) so his solution is to keep his plans as they were and let her spend that week with me.
I pointed out that that means I won't have a week off all summer as he will and he shrugged and said "well, you bought the tickets." (But we agreed jointly to let her go to the camp!)
Am I being unreasonable in wanting him to adjust his travel plans -- which, after all, are 100% flexible and only involve sitting around his parents' house and no plane tickets. Is this a battle worth fighting?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 01:24 AM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
I pointed out that that means I won't have a week off all summer as he will and he shrugged and said "well, you bought the tickets." (But we agreed jointly to let her go to the camp!)
Am I being unreasonable in wanting him to adjust his travel plans -- which, after all, are 100% flexible and only involve sitting around his parents' house and no plane tickets. Is this a battle worth fighting?
Am I being unreasonable in wanting him to adjust his travel plans -- which, after all, are 100% flexible and only involve sitting around his parents' house and no plane tickets. Is this a battle worth fighting?
Why don't you just shrug too? "Well, it's your week." You don't have to make any changes to your schedule, you don't have to justify anything to him. My W ask me to make a change and when I can't, I just say no. Do you think H is consulting anyone right now as to what is reasonable? You're such a Nice Girl. Don't expect anyone to fulfill your needs if you don't. You want that week off, take it.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 01:43 AM
Maybell, how friendly are you with your SIL? Could she be your ally? And is the concert something D11 has been looking forward to and talking about? What would she choose if given the choice between concert and camp?
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 01:57 AM
The deal is, the camp is 500 miles away (near SIL) and the concert is here, 2 days after. I was going to drop D11 at the the tail end of my vacation and STBX was going to pick her up at the beginning of his. But the tix are for two days after the camp. So I'd like us to fly D11 home from camp (SIL or MIL can get her on the plane) and STBX to put his trip off till the week following.
*I* don't feel it's reasonable to ask D11 to choose. The tix are a big deal to her. The camp is time with her cousins and a big deal to her. We promised both. This is not her problem. It's his and mine.
No, he's not checking to see what's reasonable.
But he did have a household catastrophe that means he won't have hot water for a few days.
*I* don't feel it's reasonable to ask D11 to choose. The tix are a big deal to her. The camp is time with her cousins and a big deal to her. We promised both. This is not her problem. It's his and mine.
No, he's not checking to see what's reasonable.
But he did have a household catastrophe that means he won't have hot water for a few days.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 02:06 AM
I didn't mean actually ask her to choose. Just wondering if you had a sense of which one was more important to her.
Hehe on the hot water.
Hehe on the hot water.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 02:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Maybell
This morning I went to help some friends who've just bought a business get organized. I LOVED it. I felt thrilled to be part of the lives of people in such a meaningful way. All I did was paint a room, but every time they go in there they will have a tangible reminder of my caring and appreciation for them. That makes me really happy. These friends have been a real treasure. I want to be able to show them my appreciation.
This afternoon I've just been kind of lounging. Remembering who I am. Getting in touch with my creativity again. (Also cleaning out my DVR but I am feeling rested so it was a well-spent day).
I've been wrestling with this.
I think I knew he wouldn't answer me. I'd been begging him to be more open with me (in a general sense) and more engaged for... well, basically our entire marriage. I knew always that if anything really bad happened in our life (like, one of the kids getting cancer or hit by a car or something) that we would fall apart.** I knew the marriage wasn't a strong one. But I never felt like I could do anything other than endure it. Marriage is forever and it was my responsibility to remain true to my commitment. STBX wasn't capable of doing any better than he was doing and that was just how things were.
Why did I tolerate that?
Why did I move cross-country TWICE (the first time against my desire) for this poor marriage?
What did I think would happen?
First stabs:
-- Duty, to my commitment, my then H, my kids, our families.
-- Powerlessness. I didn't believe I could be OK alone.
-- Lack of imagination. If I'm not a wife then what would I be? I'd have to decide, and I didn't feel ready to make a choice about how to live as an adult.
-- Fear. Three little kids and a worthless mom? No.
-- Lack of support. I didn't realize how many people have my back.
-- Inertia. Not knowing better. Happiness is for other people.
Scared again but it will be OK.
This afternoon I've just been kind of lounging. Remembering who I am. Getting in touch with my creativity again. (Also cleaning out my DVR but I am feeling rested so it was a well-spent day).
Quote:
"I wonder why I chose to overlook my feelings that something was amiss in my marriage? I wonder why I felt it was in my best interest not to ask more direct questions and get answers, because it's important to me to have truth in my marriage?"
I've been wrestling with this.
I think I knew he wouldn't answer me. I'd been begging him to be more open with me (in a general sense) and more engaged for... well, basically our entire marriage. I knew always that if anything really bad happened in our life (like, one of the kids getting cancer or hit by a car or something) that we would fall apart.** I knew the marriage wasn't a strong one. But I never felt like I could do anything other than endure it. Marriage is forever and it was my responsibility to remain true to my commitment. STBX wasn't capable of doing any better than he was doing and that was just how things were.
Why did I tolerate that?
Why did I move cross-country TWICE (the first time against my desire) for this poor marriage?
What did I think would happen?
First stabs:
-- Duty, to my commitment, my then H, my kids, our families.
-- Powerlessness. I didn't believe I could be OK alone.
-- Lack of imagination. If I'm not a wife then what would I be? I'd have to decide, and I didn't feel ready to make a choice about how to live as an adult.
-- Fear. Three little kids and a worthless mom? No.
-- Lack of support. I didn't realize how many people have my back.
-- Inertia. Not knowing better. Happiness is for other people.
Scared again but it will be OK.
Good insight, MB. Difficult but necessary. While agree with Vanilla that the past is the past and we can't change it, we can change the future but only by realizing who we are, how we got here.
The answers are usually in us.
Hugs, MB.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 02:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Old Dog
Originally Posted By: labug
In the spirit of complete disclosure, I almost quit therapy on several occasions because I didn't want to do it any more. There was too much to fix, I just couldn't do it. I had a similar meltdown not long ago over not having the ability to be the mother my S22 needs.
Therapy shines a light on the darkest parts of us. The good news is we have the ability to change it. If we stay in the dark, we stay in the dark.
Be gentle with yourself. The fact that this is painful is the signal you can change.
Again, be gentle with yourself. When we know better we can do better.
((( )))
Therapy shines a light on the darkest parts of us. The good news is we have the ability to change it. If we stay in the dark, we stay in the dark.
Be gentle with yourself. The fact that this is painful is the signal you can change.
Again, be gentle with yourself. When we know better we can do better.
((( )))
Bug, this is good to hear. I was in transactional analysis (TA) therapy for 3-4 years in the 90s and don't feel it did me that much good - some may say that is evident by that fact that on these boards. All it seemed to be for me was a talking shop. Yes, I recovered from the depression I was in after a previous split and life rut but I didn't really feel I had changed at all, it was just that I knew a bit more about myself, such as I am passive aggressive.
Old Dog, sorry your experience wasn't more helpful
I saw 3 other ICs before I found the one that clicked. Not all therapy is equal, not all therapists are equal and we aren't always fully "in."
Most Americans probably spend more time deciding what phone to buy than on choosing healthcare providers.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 03:03 PM
Old Dog, that sounded harsh on my part. It wasn't meant to chastise you. I just bought a new phone over the weekend and then had to get all my stuff transferred over. It was exhausting and I was amazed at the amt of time I put into it.
I work in healthcare, there are many people who put little effort into their health.
I work in healthcare, there are many people who put little effort into their health.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 04:07 PM
Great reflections here! This will be quick - I took the day off to finish painting my D21's room before the flooring goes in tomorrow.
FWIW, I do this reframing exercise all.the.time. Periodically (and more frequently than I'd like) something crosses my path that really irks me. Like a stupid skateboarder this morning who blew through a stop sign and I almost hit the dumbass, who was also unapologetic and seeming not to care. But other times, it's stuff that I'm projecting outward. I have to do that line of questioning to get to the bottom of things. All those perceived responses? Conjecture and putting words into his mouth. Maybe they would be true. But then again, maybe not. At the very least, his not giving you answers would be the red flag waving that you'd need to dig deeper for answers. Not accepting anyone's word at face value if your gut tells you otherwise. Saying no is incredibly empowering when it is what your gut tells you to do. It's also really hard.
Sometimes, people will get on your case for not doing their bidding. Hold your ground. Others will project. In the beginning, it was REALLY hard for me to distinguish between their projection and the truth. I'm talking several years to work on this one, so don't be afraid of doing the work over a period of time. It takes this long because our filters are or were broken, MB. You have to teach your filter and then pay attention to it. I know Bug told you some months back that Al-Anon would be a beneficial group. This is the kind of thing that Al-Anon works on, because it's an enabling behavior that causes harm to self. Sometimes it's just easy, because I ask myself who has Betsey's back? If the answer is that obvious, well, I'd be a dumbass not to follow.
Great introspection, folks. Keep going. Don't be afraid of the truth, friends. It's the information you need to have your own back. Pretending it isn't doesn't protect you. YOU protect you.
FWIW, I do this reframing exercise all.the.time. Periodically (and more frequently than I'd like) something crosses my path that really irks me. Like a stupid skateboarder this morning who blew through a stop sign and I almost hit the dumbass, who was also unapologetic and seeming not to care. But other times, it's stuff that I'm projecting outward. I have to do that line of questioning to get to the bottom of things. All those perceived responses? Conjecture and putting words into his mouth. Maybe they would be true. But then again, maybe not. At the very least, his not giving you answers would be the red flag waving that you'd need to dig deeper for answers. Not accepting anyone's word at face value if your gut tells you otherwise. Saying no is incredibly empowering when it is what your gut tells you to do. It's also really hard.
Sometimes, people will get on your case for not doing their bidding. Hold your ground. Others will project. In the beginning, it was REALLY hard for me to distinguish between their projection and the truth. I'm talking several years to work on this one, so don't be afraid of doing the work over a period of time. It takes this long because our filters are or were broken, MB. You have to teach your filter and then pay attention to it. I know Bug told you some months back that Al-Anon would be a beneficial group. This is the kind of thing that Al-Anon works on, because it's an enabling behavior that causes harm to self. Sometimes it's just easy, because I ask myself who has Betsey's back? If the answer is that obvious, well, I'd be a dumbass not to follow.
Great introspection, folks. Keep going. Don't be afraid of the truth, friends. It's the information you need to have your own back. Pretending it isn't doesn't protect you. YOU protect you.
Re: Maybell XXXI - 03/09/15 04:12 PM
It wasn't harsh bug. In fact think I need harsh at times ... possibly most of the time to galvanise me into action. Maybell knows this and has challenged me on it.
Point me in the right direction and whack me on the back with a 4x2 to set me off :-)
The stupid thing is, I know it too but I guess I don't feel I'm worthy or deserve it. I've asked my IC to help me with this. Specifically, I said to him "I talk the talk, but don't walk the walk." I want to be able to take an active part in my life, not just drift and let others decide my direction like I have too often. Good talk, now where's the action?
Point me in the right direction and whack me on the back with a 4x2 to set me off :-)
The stupid thing is, I know it too but I guess I don't feel I'm worthy or deserve it. I've asked my IC to help me with this. Specifically, I said to him "I talk the talk, but don't walk the walk." I want to be able to take an active part in my life, not just drift and let others decide my direction like I have too often. Good talk, now where's the action?