We married at a young age and had kids quickly. While never a perfect marriage things have been good, or so I thought. I had been diagnosed with depression several years earlier, and she was diagnosed with mild ADHD. Sometimes she has taken medicine, but hadn’t taken anything for a few years.
In early January she started playing a new video game on her phone and tablet. It very quickly became her entire life. She would play in the morning, while she worked in her home office, and then in the evenings from after dinner until 2 or 3 am. It was crazy. There were days when we would sit down to dinner and she would state that she forgot to eat breakfast and lunch. I discovered last week that she has secretly spent over $1000 on this game buying in game items.
We used to go to bed together almost every night around 10 or 11, I would read for a while and she would Facebook or Instagram while I rubbed her legs and back before going to sleep. I had been missing this, I felt abandoned. It’s like I’ve been replaced by a video game. I’ve suffered from depression for years, and it hit me hard, I felt replaced, abandoned, and worthless.
I then noticed that she was texting another person from the game, I snooped on her tablet and also found out she bought him a $100 gift card for the game. The text messages were kind of flirty, but no sexting that I saw. However, the message history was not all there.
After a few days of feeling very down I got up the courage to talk to her about the impact this situation was having on me. Once I asked her to take it easy on the game she declared that wasn’t sure she wanted to be married anymore and needed time to think. She also promptly changed all her passwords to her devices and has become very sneaky. If I come in the room she hides her phone screen.
She did come to bed at our normal time that night, but I could tell she did not want to be there. I’m really missing the intimacy we used to have every evening, which is very hard. I just want to hold her in my arms in the evening when we go to bed.
I called my assistance line from work the next morning. They got me into a therapist that afternoon to start on the depression problem. I met the psychiatrist two days later to have my meds adjusted. I feel I am doing well, not better, but getting there.
My psychiatrist told me to leave her alone. She said she needed time and I was to give it to her. I’m not to pester her to talk, wait until she is ready. Also, all touching is off limits. She has to initiate any touching. He told me not hug her unless she hugs me, don’t pressure her. Basically I am to wait around and do nothing until she decides if she wants to try and save the relationship.
She met a psychiatrist a couple weeks ago and started on an anti-depressant. She was told not to make any changes, no talking until the drug kicked in and she felt better. It wasn’t working for her, so she was switched to an ADHD drug which should start to work quicker.
As far the affair, all I really know for sure is the emotional infidelity part of it, which is bad enough. I don’t know if it progressed to sexting or snap chatting, or video. I do not know if it reached the physical level. I realized that something else might be related to this. A couple of weeks ago she shaved her pubic area, which she hasn’t done in a couple of years. I initially though it was for me, but now I’m not sure what to think. There are calls on the cell phone bill to his number that start around the time she shaved. The feelings of betrayal are tough to deal with. I don’t expect to see many calls on the next bill because I noticed her using a new app the other day called Line. When I looked it up, it is for messaging, calling, pictures, social media kind of stuff.
It’s hard because I’m in limbo right now, waiting for her to be ready to talk. The last two weeks were very hard, and now it is two more until her next appointment. It’s hard because there are still signs that she cares about me. I still get hugs and kisses when I leave for work, when I get home, before bed. There is still conversation at dinner, just small talk like stuff. But once she sits down to play the game, BAM I’m alone. It’s like there is a statue across the room. We have season tickets to the local basketball team and we still attend those games together. Sometimes she even holds my hand, which makes me feel optimistic. I have thought about staying home form those and let her go with our daughter or her friend. Not sure because I do value spending time with her.
From my diary 10 days ago:
“My evenings have become a lot of waiting around until it’s my bed time. It’s become a very stressful time for me. I went to bed at 10 as usual. When I said good night to her she said she wouldn't be long. Each night that ‘I won't be long’ gets a little bit longer, tonight it was 45 minutes. This is really hurting me, first I’m excited that she will be there soon, then sad that she hasn't come to bed yet, then even sadder that she has forgotten about me waiting. Then I hear her start to come in to the bedroom and my heart races again. Then she gets in the bed and I do get a couple of kisses and a little bit of a snuggle and I’m filled with hope that I might get some much needed attention. But I can tell she doesn’t want to be there, that her heart isn’t in it. Then she rolls over to use her phone and asks me to rub her back. I feel like I have a disease and she can’t touch me. Last night it became too much and I asked her to sleep in the spare room. She jumped right up and seemed happy to leave. I suspect that she will be happy with this new arrangement where she can stay up late as she wants.”
I let her know the next day that I missed her in the bed, and she was welcome back at any time, but only when she is ready to be there. I think I might be sleeping alone for quite a while. She does come in the room to say good night and brush her teeth. There are always kisses and hugs, last night she even rested her head on my chest for a brief moment before leaving for her room to do whatever it is she does down there late into the night.
I decided against any Valentine's Day gifts. I can't buy her love and it wouldn't be giving her space. I wonder if I should tell her no gifts because I’m giving her space. I don’t want her to think I don’t care.
I discovered this site a week ago and promptly order the DR book. I am part way through it. I am also trying to follow the 37 rules, but I do slip up from time to time. I am working on making myself better. I’m definitely eating better, getting more exercise, and doing more around the house. I haven’t gotten to the 180 part of the book, but hopefully will soon.
Thank-you for reading this. It felt good to type it out.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Sandi's Rules: A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2380415&page=1Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063&fpart=1Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank-you for those links, a lot of good stuff in there.
I’m back peddling on my Valentine’s Day plans. Instead of nothing I think I will get her a simple card, nothing really mushy, just something simple to let her know I am thinking of her.
I also think this will be my last weekend attending the games with her. She can take our daughter or her best friend with her. Last night was hard. A lot of phone use while driving there, and whenever I wasn’t around at the game. At times it felt like old times when we would go to the games. But it's not the same right now. She has always enjoyed them a lot, we both do actually. It’s like I’m a friend that she can ask basketball questions to, or discuss plays or strategy with. It was really hard to sit there and be with her, without being with her. I do not want to be a friend, I want to be a couple.
Looks like you have made another post,
While we are waiting for it to surface I hope you are starting this homework above.
Keep posting.
Hi, welcome to the DB board. I really wish you would consider changing your name b/c you aren't dumb.
I will try to respond to some things you brought out in your post. Btw, what are your ages and the kids ages?
Did she have ADHD as a child? My H, children, and two of my grandchildren have ADD. It can be very frustrating for the "normal" person in the family. Maybe I should say, the non-ADD person. I can see the problems associated with the disorder, however, I don't believe a person's morals are directed by it, do you?
You seem like a very kind and patient man, who doesn't expect a lot from his W. Having depression (and low self-esteem ?) sure hasn't helped your stitch any. Would you say you and wife have different personalities, or about the same?
Your W's addiction is very serious, IMO. And sadly, it seems to be leading to other things that are not good. You asked her to simply pull back on the game playing......not to end it, right? And she replied by saying she didn't know if she wanted to be M any more. That response show how deep in trouble she is.
I hope she does not have little children depending on her for their welfare. If she can't remember to feed herself, she won't take care of them. I think you are going to have to be a lot firmer going forward.
May I ask why both of you are seeing a psychiatrist, and is it the same one?
She needs a lot of help, but what you have done is not working. I know what you said the psychiatrist said not to do, but did he give any instructions what "to do" about the housework, kids, and other day to day things? Who has taken care of every thing?
Thank you Sandi.
Lately I feel dumb. I've learned that feelings are not facts. I've learned so much in the last few weeks about relationships. So many things I should have done differently. It all seems like common sense now, but it took me 23 years to learn it.
We are in our mid 40's. Children are 21 and 22. The oldest has moved out of state, the younger is almost moved out. Spends most nights at her boyfriends.
If she had ADD as a child it was not diagnosed. One of the dumb things was never discussing with her what we needed to do as a couple to work with that diagnosis. I don't think it would impact her morals. But she has been very impulsive lately. I believe there is more than just ADD at play here as well. Maybe some empty nest with the younger child almost moved out. Maybe some depression, and she is definitely under more stress from her job.
I believe our personalities are very similar. Both shy people, but we do like to laugh and go out with friends. Neither likes to be the 'center of attention' at gatherings.
I think the addiction is very serious, I asked her to not play as much, just told her I needed some attention. She stated at one point that she is only happy when playing the game.
I had called my work hotline to talk to them the day after our first talk. I was quite depressed. They got me into a therapist that day to work on depression and self esteem issues now. They also got me into the psychiatrist to adjust my anti depressant medication.
She made an appointment with a psychiatrist because she knows something is wrong. She said she became numb to everything, no feelings for anything. She has not started any therapy yet. She was advised to wait until the medication starts working. That's a tough part for me. I've been to hours of therapy the last couple weeks. Working on so many things to be a better person no matter the outcome. And she continues to play this game all the time. It's tough feeling like I'm the only one trying.
We are not currently seeing the same counsellors or doctors. I have thought about switching to hers, but am not that impressed so far.
For most everyday things around the house we do them together. I try and do as much as I can around the house now. Part of my 180 strategy.
I just re-read the detachment thread again. I'm going to have to work on that this week. It's just too hard on me continuing to do things together, when we are not together. I can't continue to go to sporting events as just a friend.
The game last night was ok, but it's just hard when we do something and the minute we get home she rushes off to her bedroom to play a game or chat all night. I'm getting tired of hearing the "I'm tired and going to bed early" line, only to get up to get a drink at 3am and see her light still on 4 hours later.
It's hard to spend time with someone when you can tell they would rather be somewhere, or with someone, else.
I'm actually feeling a little angry this morning. That's not an emotion I've had a lot of these days.
You are dealing with several serious issues at once. I don't know what you have been advised, and you need to listen to the psychiatrist, if you completely trust him/her. Is it a psychiatrist or a psycholist?
If it were me, the first thing I would concentrate on would be getting myself in a healthy frame of mind. You have made the first step by seeing a professional. There are different kinds of meds used for depression or anxiety. Finding the best one for you may take a couple or more tries, but don't give up. If used correctly, they can help turn you around. Deep depression is dibilitating.
As much as you want to help your W right now, you may not be able to do very much. In the process of putting your energy towards her, it will deplete your own mind & body so rapidly that both of you may down. If you are a swimmer, you can compare it to her trying to pull you under. As much as you want her to swim to safety, if she fights you.....then you have to worry about saving yourself. I hope that doesn't sound calloused.
I know you love her. I believe you feel you need her very much, and I understand. Hopefully, this M will be saved. We will try to help as best we can. It starts with you becoming healthier, stronger (mentally & physically), and learning how to get to a place you are happy with life and feel confident as a man. Okay?
I'm glad your kids are grown and you don't have to worry about her not taking care of them. Did she seem to turn to the gaming about the time the kids left?
Do you know anything about co-dependency in M's? If so, do you see yourself having that tendency?
I get the feeling you really don't want to "detach" from your W. it is common for Newcommers b/c they don't fully understand the DB concept of it. Believe me, it can be done without anger, resentment, coldness, or other negative behavior.
Remember, you are the one swimming for your life. You can't hold back waiting until she decides to swim also. She has to realize she is in trouble, first. Right now, she doesn't want anyone's help. If you ask anything of her.......she resents it. If you depend on her to fulfill your needs.....she resents it even moreso. For now, you will need to step away from her. Don't press her, plead with her, or try to force her. If she gets to a point of a life threatening situation, call for intervention/help. Are her parents living, and are they close by? Is there anyone who has enough influence with her that you could call if things get worse?
Next post will only be about you.
What's tough if that it seems like everyday she gets further away from me. Each day I discover a new surprise. Today was snapchat.
The snapchat really hurts, I have probably told her everyday for years that my favorite part of the day is watching her get changed cause I get to see her boobies. She doesn’t let me see her naked anymore, but now she is sharing pictures with strangers on the internet.
It's like she has flipped her life right upside down. She'll be pleasant and seemingly happy with me. Then she goes to bed and stays up all night in a secret life.
These problems did start up right when our youngest daughter started spending more time away from the house. Someone else has mentioned maybe part of this is an empty nest type of thing.
I see both a psychiatrist and a psychologist, the doctor is mostly to monitor the medication though. In my therapy sessions they tell me that I'm not doing enough for me, that I'm too concerned about the us. I am going to make more of an effort to distance myself from her.
I really like the swimming analogy. That is excellent. I have to keep moving forward, and hope she starts swimming before it is too late.
I've read about co-dependancy. I'm pretty sure I'm not in that situation.
I'm still processing the detachment article. Is it just a matter of trying to separate my life from hers? That seems like it would be tough while living under the same roof. I'll have to stop being the nice guy and put my foot down. No more basketball games for me. I'll tell her to have fun though. She won't be happy, but I really need to start thinking about me.
I certainly entered the anger stage yesterday. I was worried I was going to say something I shouldn't (Rule 21 or 26) so I met a friend for a couple of hours. It was nice to get away from her for a bit. I felt like I had lost all respect for her. I didn't want to be near her at all. I didn't even want to kiss her goodnight last night. But when she came to me I did to continue like everything is all right with me (Rules 19 and 30, The I'm all cool rules)
"Rule 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel."
That is the tough one right now. In therapy I've learned that I need to get better, she needs to get better, and then we both need to agree to work on the marriage. It's really hard to not throw in the towel when you are the only one trying to get better. I'm making progress to becoming a better person. And she isn't even trying yet. She has been told to do nothing until her new medicine gets in her system.
Actually, I never called it "rules". That list strictly came off the top of my head, as you can tell there is no special order, or even organized well. However, they are based on the same principles that MWD teaches. You may need to tweak the list to fit your situation. Although, you seem to be doing well following it.
Let me give you a couple of examples of what I mean. If you have a bad temper and blow up easily, then of course, walk away. But that "rule" does not mean you should never speak up, or face her to take up for yourself, or even to call her out when she disrespects you. In other words, don't walk away like a whipped dog with his tail under his legs.
Another example is believing kissing her is keeping your cool. Two different people may see this in two different ways. One may see his affection as a way of condoning her waywardness. The other may see it as you did.
I'm making progress to becoming a better person. And she isn't even trying yet. She has been told to do nothing until her new medicine gets in her system.
I'm sorry I have forgotten, what type of meds is she taking? How does the doctor see this helping her Internet gaming and cyber sexing?
Yes, that is what I said, cybersex. The gaming has moved over to something much worse. Now I am not saying there isn't a prescription out there doesn't help, I'm just saying I've never heard of it. Moral values do not come in pills.
This is an addiction......do you get that? People who are addicted do not want to give up what addicts them. Do you get that? If you do, then why are you still waiting & watching and expecting her to "change"?
You will need to throw away your score card. She hasn't even entered the game yet! So you can't say "I get a point for this, but she gets zero b/c she hasn't done anything". Keeping a score card hurts your own progress. Okay?
The detachment link is a little long and you may have to take a little bit at a time to digest it. When first hearing the word, a lot of people think of keeping physical distance. For now, try to think of how you could detach even if you were in the same room with her. I told one man he had no problem tuning out his W until she became a WAW, then she was on his mind constantly and he smothered her with his neediness. I suppose you might sum it up by saying detaching is when you stop allowing her to control your head space......decisions....behavior....feelings....moods......action.......and things along those lines. It is not intended to be permanently, but as long as she is a WAW in her heart and actions.
Did you finish reading DB?
I am about half way through the DB book. I just did not feel like reading it over the week end. I just felt too angry.
I'm usually very good about keeping my anger bottled in, which is another problem I need to work on. She is the same way, in fact we have never had a yelling at each in anger argument.
It wasn't something she said over the weekend. I just felt this sudden need to confront her about the affair. Let her know that I'm not an idiot and can put the clues together.
Her medication is for ADHD. I do not believe her doctor even knows about the addiction. I don't think she even believes she has an addiction problem. I get the impression from what little she has said that she is meeting to talk about loss of feelings and unsure about being married anymore, but she hasn’t said much to me about this. Her instructions from her doctor are to make no changes until the medicine gets into her system.
Excellent point on the score card. She is not even playing the game yet. Until she becomes honest with herself about the addiction problem, there is really nothing I can do, except detach.
I have often wondered if continuing to accept her kisses, hugs, and occasional hand holding is good for trying to detach from her. While it helps me get through my day thinking that there are still some feelings there, maybe it’s just a façade, to keep me in line. I certainly do not go to her for those anymore, she comes to me now. I just do not know if they are genuine, or if she is looking for me to privately condone her behavior.
I am a little confused. Maybe you can help me. This is what your psychiatrist told you:
My psychiatrist told me to leave her alone. She said she needed time and I was to give it to her. I’m not to pester her to talk, wait until she is ready. Also, all touching is off limits. She has to initiate any touching. He told me not hug her unless she hugs me, don’t pressure her. Basically I am to wait around and do nothing until she decides if she wants to try and save the relationship.
So he is saying not to initiate anything with her, right? If she goes to you for a hug/kiss it is fine, right?
Did you explain her addiction and the A? If so, did he still think you should do nothing?
Then you said this about her doctor:
She met a psychiatrist a couple weeks ago and started on an anti-depressant. She was told not to make any changes, no talking until the drug kicked in and she felt better. It wasn’t working for her, so she was switched to an ADHD drug which should start to work quicker.
Did the same person who put her on anti-depressants, two weeks later put her on meds for ADHD?
Did she say something that makes you think her shrink does not know about her addiction?
Is she still seeing the shrink?
Thank-you for digging through these posts.
You are correct, my guy said something along the lines of "She asked for time and space, you are to give her time and space. Do not pester her to talk, she will talk when she is ready. Do not pressure her for a decision. You don’t want her making a decision under stress. Do not approach her for sex or even just a kiss. That is all her decision, do not apply pressure by asking for or giving her an unwanted kiss. Wait for her to come to you." So if she comes for a hug its fine, but I am not to approach her for hugs.
I did explain about the addiction and the affair. He said the same thing, but added “You should prepare in case the decision is not in your favor. It could happen. She may be in love with this other guy.”
She has been seeing the same doctor for both medications. She goes back in ten days. I believe at that time he may be ready to either start some therapy, or send her to a therapist. I’m unsure if he will do the therapy himself.
In limited conversations with her I got the impression that she thinks the game is not the problem. Like it is normal to sneakily spend over $1000, and spend 12 or more hours a day playing. Maybe she has been more honest with him than she has been with me.
It's not unusual she wouldn't see it as a problem.
Did your therapist give you some direction about what to do to get "you" back on a healthy road?
I agree to a point about what he said about her. But that's not to say you have to act like a old dog that has no life and just waits to see what she does with you.
I give you credit for coming here and seeking help.
I did spend the first week acting like an old dog, just waiting around. After I found this site I started making some changes. I'm getting out more, and definitely getting more exercise. I went biking for the first time in years. I remembered Rule 14 and invited her. When she declined it was hard to leave her home and go by myself but I did it. It was great to be out of the house. Otherwise I would have sat around while she used her tablet.
The main issues I am working on with my therapist right now are the depression and self-esteem. The two problems seem very closely related. After that I plan to bring up being more assertive and social anxiety.
I've read about co-dependancy. I'm pretty sure I'm not in that situation.
Don't write it off just yet.
Cause if I was to guess almost everyone that posts here is
in this category.
Nothing to be ashamed about just something else to learn and work on.
I will do some more research into co-dependancy. I also see my therapist again tomorrow so I will be sure to bring that up.
I will see where that fits into everything I have to work on.
Thank-you for the note, I will be sure to explore this.
Before you read something else, finish DB. The more information you read about at this stage, the more your head is going to be spinning.
Before you read something else, finish DB. The more information you read about at this stage, the more your head is going to be spinning.
Agreed - also read DR!
Woke up this morning with an urge to confront her about everything. Tell her to smarten the f*** up. It's one thing to hurt me and not care about my feelings, but this is starting to impact our children. That's a line that she may not realize she has crossed. Tell her to step back and look in the mirror at her behavior. Tell her to open her eyes and admit that she has an addiction problem. I've never had a really heated confrontation with her. But I feel it’s coming. I guess while I'm having that conversation I could also let her know that I know about the affair. Might as well throw gas on the fire while I'm at it.
This would be a complete 180 from my usual passive attitude towards conflict. I can’t see how it would help anything though. But then again, I don’t feel much hope these days anyway.
Woke up this morning with an urge to confront her about everything. Tell her to smarten the f*** up. It's one thing to hurt me and not care about my feelings, but this is starting to impact our children. That's a line that she may not realize she has crossed. Tell her to step back and look in the mirror at her behavior. Tell her to open her eyes and admit that she has an addiction problem. I've never had a really heated confrontation with her. But I feel it’s coming. I guess while I'm having that conversation I could also let her know that I know about the affair. Might as well throw gas on the fire while I'm at it.
This would be a complete 180 from my usual passive attitude towards conflict. I can’t see how it would help anything though. But then again, I don’t feel much hope these days anyway.
I think the thing is that you are best off telling her that while she is in an affair and not completely transparent you can not be in a relationship with her.
It is unlikely that she will change but you can only control YOU!
Get DR and read it please!
I am getting close to the end of DR. I just finished the infidelity chapter over lunch.
I'm also thinking of asking her to consider going to her best friend’s house for the weekend. I really think I need a weekend alone to work on me without having to walk on eggshells worrying that I will say or do something inappropriate out of habit. I feel I need a little break from the stress to read my DR book, and some of the others I have picked up recently.
Why don't you take yourself off for a little GAL plan instead? Book a motel for a night, have a little dinner out, finish the book etc...
You could tell your W - I'm going away Saturday night. I should be back some time Sunday afternoon.
Toots,
That is a really good idea, thank-you. Then I won't be stuck in the house with all of our memories. I'm only 90 minutes from the beach too. That would make for a nice morning walk.
I feel I need a little break from the stress to read my DR book, and some of the others I have picked up recently.
Please do not share the book or any of the info in the book with her.
Its like playing a football game and giving the other team your playbook. -DONT
I've kept the book hidden from her, I think I read that in the rules post. That's one reason why I'm not finished it yet. I can only read when she is not around, ie when I go to bed.
I'm back to asking her to go to her best friends house for the weekend. There is a large event going on this weekend in town and the only hotel rooms left are very pricey, and I would rather not have to drive a few hours away.
My therapist seesion went well last night. She help me with some talking points to not make it sound like I want her to leave, but that I need some space for a few days.
I did make good progress on the DR book yesterday. Just a couple of chapters that I skipped left to go, and a few i want to re-read again.
I'm back to asking her to go to her best friends house for the weekend.
Sounds like a good plan.
Whenever I try to talk with her I get my words jumbled up a bit and always say the wrong thing. So I wrote her a letter, I ran it by some people. I thought I did a really nice job asking her if she was ok with asking her best friend if she could stay for a night. Give us some space to relax, without having to walk on eggshells.
She interpreted it as I’ve already decided to move on without her and she became upset. I told her “nothing is further from the truth.”
I told her I was sorry if I gave her the impression that I didn't want to be with her, but that's the impression I get from her. She said she doesn't know what she wants.
I told her I was trying to figure out how to give her space. She said she doesn't know what she wants.
I told her when we are at the games I get the impression she doesn't want to be there with me. She said she doesn't know what she wants.
I told her I need some communication to know how I'm doing in the 'giving space' department. She said she doesn't know what she wants.
I told her I need to know what I should and should not do. She said she doesn't know what she wants.
I asked her if she would come back to the bed tonight, I got a very quick "no". I guess she knows what she doesn't want. *sigh*
Later on I noticed that she had changed her facebook picture, hid her relationship status, removed our anniversary, and all the pictures with me are gone from her timeline. This was upsetting considering two hours ago she was accusing me of already deciding that it was over, when she had already changed her facebook stuff earlier that day.
She obviously wants to come across as available to the new men she has been adding as friends lately. I'm assuming she deleted our anniversary date so people wouldn't get an idea to her age. Her new picture looks really nice, and much younger than the previous.
When I confronted her she did add the relationship status and anniversary date back. She lied that when she was adjusting her security settings earlier that day it deleted the anniversary date. I wish she wouldn’t treat me like an idiot. I told her if it would make her happy just go and delete me from her facebook, she can change her status to single. Then she won’t have to worry about me getting in the way of whatever she is doing. I got the standard reply from her: She said she doesn't know what she wants.
I was not expecting the facebook changes. It's one thing to have these secret relationships going on, but I wasn't prepared to have it flaunted in my face. And somehow I'm the bad person in all of this. I feel like she keeps getting worse.
Thinking about it, if she changes her status to single, then everyone will know something is up. I guess she wants to keep this hidden from friends and family.
I wonder if she is also going through a midlife crisis.
Summary
"She said she doesn't know what she wants."
I wonder if she is also going through a midlife crisis?
MLC = CONFUSION
Also lesson learned,
48 hour rule to be applied in the future.
Before any correspondence with her - post it here for 48 hours and get feedback on what you have written before
you send it.
Thank-you. I have another note for her. Most of it came from a great Michele Weiner-Davis you-tube.
Dear W,
I understand that you need time to reflect on your life right now, and I am going to step out your way so that you can do it. I will not pester you to talk any more, I will not bring up counseling again. I will give you the space you need.
I can’t promise that I won’t slip up occasionally, but I will try. You will need to let me know if I start to pressure you again.
I know that I haven’t been the perfect husband, if there is something that you feel you need to tell me about how I have disappointed you in life, I am open to hearing it. I want to become a better person.
Me, xo
I may just skip the letter. She will get the hint if I don't ever bring it up again. Actions speak louder than words. I need to work on detaching so her actions do not impact me so much.
Woke up of feeling very alone. I miss waking up beside her, where I could simply reach out and touch her. Put my arm around her and give her a hug. Whisper good morning in her ear with a little kiss. Not the first time I've woken up with these feelings, but this morning they seemed very strong.
I’ve been in a good mood this morning. I even made her laugh at one of my corny jokes. She seemed a bit down but she doesn’t want my help trying to ‘fix’ what is wrong, so I will not let it bother me. With everything I’m reading and learning these days I’m really starting to understand that this is not my fault, it’s her crisis, or transition, or addiction, or all of the above that is causing this. There is nothing I can do except to work on taking back the power her behaviors and actions have on my feelings.
I may just skip the letter. She will get the hint if I don't ever bring it up again. Actions speak louder than words. I need to work on detaching so her actions do not impact me so much.
I think you have given yourself good advice.
There is no need to send the letter.
Your silence will speak much louder.
Remember that sometimes doing NOTHING is an ACTION
Would the occasional Hallmark card be considered pursuing? Nothing mushy, but just something to let her know I’m thinking of her.
Would the occasional Hallmark card be considered pursuing? Nothing mushy, but just something to let her know I’m thinking of her.
Nope. She fired you as her H.
Drop the rope. What are your GAL activities for the weekend?
Would the occasional Hallmark card be considered pursuing? Nothing mushy, but just something to let her know I’m thinking of her.
I would not advise it.
Better to create a little mystery,
are you doing anything for GAL?
Get out of my head, Cadet!!
Get out of my head, Cadet!!
You know great minds think alike,
anyways you were 28 secs faster than me.
I do have GAL activities planned. Tomorrow night I will stop by a friends house to watch a game. Sunday I'm meeting a couple friends at a museum to see a traveling exhibit.
I will put my hallmark cards away.
She was quite cranky tonight. Said she wanted to alone and went to her room to play her game and chat / text. Somehow I pissed her off while I was at work. But, I'm still in a good mood tonight.
It's been an ok afternoon. Watching movies on TV. She actually came and sat down with me in the room for a while. There was very little communication, and she did use her phone most of the time. It's tough being in the room with the person you love and being ignored. I kept a happy attitude though.
It is important that you not bend over backwards trying to cushion her feelings. If she's in a bad mood, so what? It is not your job to try to change it. However, if she acts pi$$ed at you, and you don't even know why? Do not be her cat she gets to kick when she feels like it.
Seriously, these attempts to please a WW just turns her off. You need to create some fun between you and the kids, find something entertaining for yourself, or get out of the house. But do not try to make things lovely for her. That is not how you deal with a WW.
I'm doing better in dealing with her than I was just a few weeks ago. When she is cranky I just steer clear, let her be cranky by herself.
The other night she said something I did not appreciate, just a mean comment, I bit my tongue until I was settled down and told her calmly that I did not appreciate what she said. How I did not like what she was implying. I wasn't going to drawn into an argument. She said she didn't mean it that way, but I reiterated that it came across that way. She walked away shaking her head at me, but argument avoided.
My GAL activities were great, but unfortunately I have to come home to her again. She did nothing all weekend but use her tablet and phone.
I think I want her to leave. I need some time to myself without having her sending naked pictures to internet boyfriends under my nose.
I will talk with my therapist and pshyc this week about confronting her about the online stuff and asking her to leave. It's just too hard on me these days. I can't get better when every few days i discover something else.
I woke up feeling better this morning, like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I think deciding that it is time to start getting ready to move on has helped.
Driving to work I was very down. But a different sad than the last four weeks, kind of an accepting that it’s over sad. A getting ready to move on sad. Maybe a mourning sad?
Maybe. If it's the end of the M, mourning needs to happen. Other than the M problems, how are you feeling?
I have been feeling better lately, still a lot of emotions and some swings up and down. But the up swings are lasting longer now. Been talking to my sister a lot lately. She has been great to talk with. She asked me an interesting question that I’m still thinking about:
Was I truly happy in the M, or was I comfortable. The last few months I think we were both just comfortable. There was a lot going on last fall, she changed jobs, the holidays, a lot of restructuring at my work. There was just a lot of stress. We hit a bit of a rut I guess.
Starting to work on some moving on activities has been helpful as well. I can look forward to a time when there is no cybersex going at the other end of the house while I’m trying to sleep.
Sometimes comfortable feels pretty good after a long spell of stress. However, we tend to get a little complacent maybe.
Glad you are feeling better.
Had a good therapy session today. Working on becoming more accepting to a likely separation.
The time apart will give me the needed alone time to work on my todo list of things I can improve, with out the distraction of having to tip toe around my house.
I will be able really focus on the DB as well.
I think I'm going to be ok.
Would like to get some advice from the group. I have some big decisions coming and would appreciate any thoughts.
I have avoided confronting her about the EA / cybersex this week, I’m waiting until I speak with a lawyer on Friday about what to expect if she pushes for D, what I can do now to prepare myself, and any other advice they can offer.
She is starting IC soon, her doctor is in the process of finding her a therapist. She was also advised that she really needs a month of no stress or anxiety. Which translates into no talking to me, I sit in limbo some more. The last month of near zero communication has been really difficult. I can’t go another month with things the way they are. She doesn’t know that I know much more about her affair. She needs to show me some respect and not be flirting and sending naked pictures to other men all night after we go to our separate bedrooms. Our daughter and I deserve to be in a house where this behavior is not acceptable. This is not an example to be setting for a young lady.
I have started to see some signs of hope though, her hugs feel a little more genuine than earlier in month when it felt like she was just going through the motions. She became upset when talking about her appointment. She cried and said sorry and I could sense real remorse in her. I know the “only believe half of what you see” guideline, but this felt real.
I suspect that once I give her the letter (below) she will blow up and we will suffer a serious setback that may even eliminate any chances of recovery for our marriage. On the other hand I feel I deserve some respect.
I’m also doubting that her doctor knows the full story. I can’t imagine he would allow her to continue down the path she has been on the last month if he really knew everything. My therapist has suggested I also write a letter to him with what I have observed. That is another dilemma. It would certainly help him treat her better if new some of her history and more of what is happening at home. But, like the affair letter, it would also most likely mean the end for the marriage once she found out what I told him.It was suggested I also include the affair letter in the note to her doctor.
Letter:
W,
This is very difficult for me to write so I will be blunt. I know that there is more than just escaping into a video game and financial infidelity. I know that there is also emotional infidelity.
I have seen the flirty text messages between you and xxxx.
I have seen where you have given him a gift card for the game.
I have seen the phone calls on my cell phone bill.
I have seen how paranoid and protective you have become about your phone, even after you changed the lock screen code.
I have seen how you immediately hide the screen when I walk in the room.
I have seen you using the Line app on your phone to hide calls, pictures, and messages.
I have seen how you replaced your Facebook profile picture of us to one of you looking 30 years old. I have seen how you hid our marriage on Facebook. I have seen how you removed all pictures of me from your timeline. It even looks like some of the kids photos are now hidden from your timeline. It hurts me that you are “putting yourself out there.”
I have seen the Snap Chat app on your phone while you were scrolling through your home screens.
I have seen the naked selfies in your phone’s photo gallery.
Does your doctor know about any of the above? I’m curious as to his thoughts of a 45 year old woman sending naked pictures to people on the Internet.
While the emotional affair is very difficult to accept, it devastates me to think that you have moved on to cybersex. With all the secrecy and deception going on I can no longer ignore your behavior and lack of respect. While I have no evidence of a physical affair, I have to believe one is close, if it hasn't happened already.
I am willing to give you some more time to sort out your feelings, but I can't continue like we have been the past five weeks indefinitely with this affair going on under my nose. You either treat me with integrity, dignity, and respect, or you don't get to treat me at all. If you aren't willing to work with me to end the affair, I need you to find another place to live while you sort out your feelings and decide what you want. Our daughter and I deserve to live in a house where this behavior is not acceptable. This not an example to be setting for her. I am willing to put in the time and hard work required to try and move past this and get back on the path to getting each of us to a better place emotionally and rebuilding a better marriage.
- me
Hey, I was just catching up on your sitch. Please don't send the letter just yet!! I've read it's best to leave it up 48 hours on the forums to get some feedback.
I'll follow up with my thoughts on it in a minute.
Hi, I have some initial thoughts.
Right now, you're not that far into your sitch. I've heard around this site that it takes 1 month of improved behaviour, for every year of "bad" behaviour. So, you do the math.
I know it's frustrating being in limbo, but you said yourself if you push this letter it will more than likely blow up in your face. Now, I think you need to set a boundary (more below), but I don't think the letter as currently written is going to help your situation.
She was also advised that she really needs a month of no stress or anxiety.
How do you know this? Is this what she told you? Did you speak to her psychiatrist? (I'm just curious whether *she* told you that - because you should ignore all of what WAWs say, and half of what they do, right?)
My therapist has suggested I also write a letter to him with what I have observed.
Why? What did your therapist suggest you include in this letter? I find this very strange advice, unless you and/or your therapist believe that she is at risk of harm to herself or others.
I think you need to leave her problems with her to sort it. And it does sound like she has a lot of problems to sort out. If she's at risk, yes by all means speak to her doctor and therapist. But if your therapist is suggesting you write her therapist and tell him she's having an affair - well, I just don't see how that's helpful.
Ok, finally on the letter: I don't think this letter, as currently written, is going to be helpful. You yourself say you think it would explode in your face.
I don't have experience of how to deal with an A, but from what i've seen you DO need to lay down a boundary. However, you don't need to tell her exactly what evidence you have or where it's from because that could just lead her to hide it more. Starsky has some really good advice on dealing with EAs/PAs. Have you read through his stuff, or Train's threads?
Have you read the thread on boundaries, and how to state them?
Why do you want to do this via a letter, rather than face to face?
IM,
Sorry to see you here. I am going to repeat the exact same thing to 4me when he "wrote" a letter to his W.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For God's sake....
DO NOT SEND LEAVE/SEND THAT LETTER!!!!!!!
It is begging, pursuing, pleading....LECTURING too. Patronizing. Smug. Superior. Self-righteous judgmental chit.
I repeat....
DO NOT SHOW/LEAVE/SEND IT AT ALL
Step away and nobody gets hurt.
P.S. I'd burn it.
Glad to see you got here, Wonka! And said it in a much better way than me (I'm still not used to giving out 2x4s)
IM, listen to Wonka. She knows what she's talking about!
Seriously though, have a read through Starsky and Train's threads to see how they handled infidelity and boundary-setting.
Thank-you. I needed that. I will not give her the letter. When I try and talk I usually get quite emotional and forget parts, or get distracted by something she says. Usually I try to have everything in a letter that I give her in person to read right then.
I believe that she honestly thinks I know nothing about the EA. I don't feel right just ignoring that behaviour. I will read through the Starsky and Train threads first thing tonight.
I just feel like there is a lot of cake eating going on. She can stay up all night with her Internet boyfriends, and I'm still around for financial security, and to give her hugs and kisses when she needs physical contact.
The letter to her therapist was to let her Doctor know more facts of the situation. Her current treatment of just an ADHD drug, no counseling of any kind for the first month, avoid talking to your husband about anything that might cause stress doesn’t make sense.
The concern is that she hasn’t told her doctor much at all. That her doctor doesn’t know about the all the money spent on the game, the 18-20 hours a day on her tablet and phone, the sending of naked pictures to strangers on the internet.
I have also scheduled some DB coaching sessions as well. I start tomorrow and am really looking forward to it.
Why do you insist that ADHD is affecting her moral actions? I just don't get it.
IM,
Hey, I think it would be a good idea for you to change your screen name.
The letter to her therapist was to let her Doctor know more facts of the situation. Her current treatment of just an ADHD drug, no counseling of any kind for the first month, avoid talking to your husband about anything that might cause stress doesn’t make sense.
The concern is that she hasn’t told her doctor much at all. That her doctor doesn’t know about the all the money spent on the game, the 18-20 hours a day on her tablet and phone, the sending of naked pictures to strangers on the internet.
It is not your business. It is between W and her therapist. Likewise with the doctor. All of those types of communications come with expected confidentiality and privacy. As you know, it DOES NOT matter what precisely W tells them or not.
Your job is to focus on you and becoming the man a fool would leave. What 180s have you done? What are your GAL activities?
Sandi is spot on with her question. I am in total agreement with her on that point.
Maybe I mis-spoke somewhere above and I apologize if I did. I don't think that her ADHD has anything to do with her current situation.
I will leave well enough alone with her doctor, I was concerned that she is not being honest about what is really happening and not getting the treatment she needs. If she doesn't want to admit there is a problem, there is nothing anyone can do to help her.
My visible 180's are going well, more cooking and cleaning around the house, which is easy when she uses her iPad all the time. I'm getting much more exercise than before, down 50 pounds today!
My other 180's are working on my self esteem and depression, both are going well.
Thank-you everyone for the guidance.
Still reading through Train's thread. A lot of really good stuff in there. I could not find Starsky's thread.
I think a lot of my issues are caused by the fact she believes I know nothing about the EA. It hasn't been exposed yet. I'm not sure how to do that. It’s tough to see her everyday acting all innocent.
I really need help in detaching. I thought I was making progress. Even though there is almost zero communication between us, she still gives me hugs and kisses when she says good morning, when I leave for work and get home again, and again when she says good night. Last night she was out of town at a conference, just the one night. I was expecting (hoping?) a phone call, or maybe a txt to say good night. Nothing. And it really hurt.
The advice that HopefulStill gives out on Train's thread is great.
As I read through the story and see the similarities between my situation and Train’s, I have a lot of the same questions.
And then in pops HopefulStill with gold nuggets.
It actually feels like most every affair thread follows the same basic pattern, I think I heard someone call it a script.
Yay!!
Glad you are finding Train's thread helpful!
I had my first phone call with a DB coach today. It went well and I got some great advice. Some tips on detaching and withdrawing more from her.
Also advised not to mention what I know about the affair right now. I'm not sure how long I can wait on that one, it's very hard on my progress. She comes and gives me a hug and kiss good night, and then goes to her room to do that stuff.
Got some GAL activities planned for the weekend, an afternoon of bowling with friends from work; then dinner with my best friend and his wife Sunday afternoon.
Question on 180's: I've always bought her a lot of gifts. I see a t-shirt somewhere, or something on the interent and I pick it up for her. Since this situation has happened I have bought her nothing on the theory that I can't buy her love. While it is a 180 from previous behavior, however it's nothing I'm doing to make me better.
I think I answered my own question.
I had my first phone call with a DB coach today. It went well and I got some great advice. Some tips on detaching and withdrawing more from her.
Also advised not to mention what I know about the affair right now. I'm not sure how long I can wait on that one, it's very hard on my progress. She comes and gives me a hug and kiss good night, and then goes to her room to do that stuff.
What reason was given as to why it'd be best to shove the most immediate threat to your marriage under the rug?
If you're not going to do anything about it, I do like it better when the cheating spouse doesn't know that the betrayed spouse knows. But neither is preferable, in my opinion, to confronting the truth head-on and trying to deal with it.
I'll have to read your backstory.
Starsky
Question about boundaries. Please advise.
Keep in mind that she does not think I know about her EA and cybersex activities. I would prefer not to have that confrontation at this time. I read in a post somewhere that a confrontation is not advised until I become a better option than the AP, if I can wait that long.
I would like to ask her not to use her phone so much in the hour or two she spends in the same room with me each week. I find it dis-respectful that she can sit here and txt and flirt with other men from her video game with me sitting here.
Boundary:
When you spend so much time on you phone texting and chatting with other men from your game.
It makes me feel disrespected.
I want you to not use your phone in my presence.
If you continue this behavior I will confront you and ask you to leave the room.
If you keep repeating this behavior I will start considering all of my options, including spending less time with you.
Re thinking that boundary. Advice from the DB coach was to not let her know what bothers me, act as if everything is fine.
I'll see if I can go a few more days before I go insane.
Fro Train Thread, adding here for my reference:
I don't know if I'm fooling myself or if my mind is just "protecting" me. I don't know if I've finally just had enough. I don't know if this is just a fleeting feeling and maybe a stage that a LBS goes through. But the fact is, I don't want my H right now. I wouldn't want him even if I could have him. And if I'm feeling this way right now, I have to ask myself if I have it in me to fight - over years - for our M and our family. For today, at least, I just don't think he's worth fighting for.
Good questions. I think every LBS goes through this. I'll ramble through some of my thinking ... you may find it helpful, you may think I'm all wet.
Certainly a big part of it is a defense mechanism.
I know I don't want my W the way she is now. I mean, what kind of weak person runs away from M problems to an OM instead of confronting them? Who wants to be lied to and disrespected daily? We then highlight all of their shortcomings to justify our decision to not want them.
But then, I realize that I contributed to the conditions that caused her to break away from M as a last resort. And a lot of her behavior now is just snowball effect stuff of an OM addict who made a bad decision in a moment of weakness. And they highlight all of our shortcomings to justify their decisions to not want us, and throw that in our face in the ugliest way.
So there's a dangerous parallelism of justifications that can easily lead to D.
But I believe that my W could not have truly lost all her good qualities. This has to be a veneer. The question then is, will the veneer crack before we're too far down the road of not caring. And if it cracks, are you willing to let it go as just the snowball manifestations of an underlying problem that might be able to be resolved. And if it cracks, are the underlying qualities that you fell in love with still there? Can I confront the possibility that my W may truly not love me any more, and that this really is the new her? Do I owe it to myself to find out? Do I owe it to her or the kids to stand through this?
And while I know that I could now throw this all away and move on and be happy, (getting to that point is a goal for any LBS), the question then is do I go for the stretch goal of working to save this R, because it's the one that has my kids in it, and now that I know I can take care of me, can I really consider which way would they be better off.
And if you're still changing your thinking on all of this from day to day, I'd suggest it's still emotionally based, and you owe it another day.
Another tough day. Going through receipts for taxes. I find so many things that are hard. A lot of memories in that box: Hotels, Disney World, Tiffany's, Victoria Secret, Yankee Candle, and a host of others. I buy her a lot of gifts. I really miss that part of the relationship, going shopping and buying her things.
Sounds like gifts is definitely your love language. Have you read the book? Might be helpful.
I have read the book. Gifts was actually the lowest for me. I was physical touch and quality time, I love to hold her hand and rub back at bedtime. I really miss spending time with her.
Today was going well. My GAL activity was taking D21 out to a friends for dinner. Wife was not happy. I think she was a bit upset at being left home alone. I'm really confused by her definition of needing space.
When we got back she was cranky, in a moment of weakness I got drawn into a confrontation. I told her I saw the naked pictures on her phone. She accused me of invading her privacy and making things worse. Told me I'm pushing her away.
Could my GAL activities be having the opposite impact? Pushing her further away.
Burger - the LL you use to express your love, and the LL you like to receive in might be different. It sounds like you express your love via gifts, just based on what you were saying.
On GAL - I had this same concern some time ago, but I was told to keep GALing. In my case H seemed to get less upset over time. The upset might be a phase she's going through, or she might be jealous you have a life and she doesn't, or that her plan B seems to be getting his own life.
Thank-you Susana4, that makes sense with the LL. I always thought my wife liked the gifts, and I think she did. But after reading the book I think her primary LL is probably affirmation, or maybe acts of service.
I will keep on GALing. I'm not going to sit at home be mopey all the time.
Today was going well. My GAL activity was taking D21 out to a friends for dinner. Wife was not happy. I think she was a bit upset at being left home alone. I'm really confused by her definition of needing space.
When we got back she was cranky, in a moment of weakness I got drawn into a confrontation. I told her I saw the naked pictures on her phone. She accused me of invading her privacy and making things worse. Told me I'm pushing her away.
Could my GAL activities be having the opposite impact? Pushing her further away.
I don't think it's the GAL activities...I think it's the moments of weakness and accusational R talk that lead her to that reaction. This seems so obvious I feel I am missing something.
Thank-you Zues,
From where I am she does seem upset that I'm continuing with my life and not sitting around waiting for her to decide what she wants. She's been left home a fair amount while I'm out doing things. She always used to come to dinner with me to the friends house I took D21 to last night.
I asked her if I was giving her 'space' properly she said No. I asked her what I needed to do to give her 'space' better, she said she didn't know.
Maybe I need to invite her out more. It's just hard spending time with someone when you can tell they would rather be somewhere else, and are so anxious to get on their phone that everytime you turn around out comes the phone.
Maybe I need to step back and look at this from an outsiders point of view and then I will see what you mean.
Thank-you for the note.
I asked her if I was giving her 'space' properly she said No. I asked her what I needed to do to give her 'space' better, she said she didn't know.
DON'T ask her this. Just do it, and monitor the results.
Not sure if you've been following Rzrback's sitch or not, but he's in a different place -- piecing, or something very close to it. At that stage you can (and should) ask your spouse if you're meeting their emotional needs, but you should NOT do it at this stage, when they're WAYWARD. It just makes you look WEAK, like "Am I doing it right? Am I? Is this okay? Or how about that, is that better?"
See?
Starsky
Burger, listen to what Starsky said above.^^^
Also, please don't ask her out!!! This is NOT the time to ask her out - she's in an A, she's wayward, she wants to get away from you. She's said she wants space! And you yourself just said it would not be enjoyable to spend time with her right now.
Keep doing what you're doing - go out and enjoy yourself, on your own or with your friends (or even better, go met new people), and do what YOU want to do, and don't focus on her reactions.
Thank-you Starsky and Susanna.
I will keep on trucking along. With her as angry as she was this morning, it should be easy to give her space. I have a feeling she will be avoiding me for a while. Most of the last couple weeks she has spent hiding in the spare room from me anyway. It's really weird how she is the one that was caught, and she gets to be the angry one.
But I think some of this detachment is starting to work, her behavior is not having the negative impact it used to have on me.
thanks again.
I really need to find a way to stop worrying about what my wise is doing, and stop spying on her, it's just very hard.
Found this on another thread:
When you are focusing on you W you are wasting energy and pushing her away.
I understand the pull to know what she is doing, who with and all of that. I do understand. That said everything you do to know, find out, will not only waste your energy, but it will hurt you deeply. It will alter your ability to move forward and fu@k with you.
She is still quite angry. I'm getting more silent treatment tonight. I didn't dare bring up anything at dinner, i was happy she sat and ate with me.
She is hiding in the spare room again (I hate that she calls it her room now).
I don't see her coming out to give me a hug and kiss good night.
Should I wander down there and say good night when I go to bed later? Last night i got a very angry sounding "What" when I went down to say good night.
Should I just send her a text?
Should I just go to bed without telling her?
I wonder if by not saying good night it gives her more ammo to justify what she is doing. More things she can use against me in her head.
What a crazy mess I'm in. Now I'm starting to second and third guess everything I do.
I toughed it out and didn't say good night to her while she hid in her room.
It's funny I think of it as a big step for me, but she probably didn't notice.
She seemed in a much better mood this morning. I got even got a hug and kiss goodbye from her. I just about melted. I was way too clingy, but so happy to be touched again. I cried driving away from the house to work.
Burger, first of all we've all been there so this is pretty normal and there is nothing wrong with you. But you're right, the eggshell game isn't good.
You want to be a strong, confident, man, a leader in your household...that man can't walk on eggshells because his wayward wife isn't happy with how your handling your rejection.
Seriously...the whole "do what works" is on a bigger scale. If she doesn't like your GAL activities because it makes you harder to manipulate and control, so sorry.
WAW is an ADDICT. Doing what works isn't about making sure an ADDICT never gets angry or impatient with you. Are you kidding?
Doing what works is about doing things that help you detach, become the person that you want to be, and live in a way that a NORMAL woman would respect and appreciate.
If at some point she warms up to that in different degrees doing what works is about not scaring her off, blaming or attacking her, or rehashing old arguments.
There is a time to be concerned with her reactions to your behavior. Now is NOT the time. Right now it is a far BIGGER priority that you detach and get your balls back. There are two people within you. One confident and strong, one weak and shivery. Starve the weak man, feed the strong man. Get to the point where you can laugh at the weakness and you feel pretty confident about the entire situation.
It CAN be done. I'm mostly there, Big Mac just posted again and he went through the mill, we were both pretty codependent. But focus on you, GAL, detaching. LET HER GO. Act that way a strong/confident person would act and if she takes offense then too flipping bad.
Thank-you Zues.
That was awesome to read, and just what I needed.
I'm going to re-read this everyday to remind myself that what I do is about me, not her feelings.
Thanks again.
I think her threat to sleep with someone else is really hurting me. That was so mean of her to say that. It's like every week things get worse and worse, like she is trying to push me to suicide. Last week there was the naked pictures, before that the Facebook stuff, the explosion with my nice letter. All the silent treatment stuff. I'm a good person who has never treated her even close to this bad.
Guidline 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
It's just really hard to not give up!
Burger,
Did you go to college? Remember having college roommates? You all came and went without any thought. This is the time to treat your W like a roommate. You have a full life so get busy living NOW!
GAL like mad...line 'em up now.
What are they for this week and weekend?
Thank-you Wonka,
Sometimes I think I need a kick in the ass. I'm going to get busy planning a good weekend for me.
Had a good therapist visit yesterday. We talked a bit about the W psychiatrist. The fact that he has advised against any sort of couples counseling says a lot. If anyone goes into a shrink and says they have marriage problems the first thing they do is send them to couples therapy. Since her shrink advised against couples therapy and all R talk with me, it implies that she went in there and said she wanted to leave me, or said she is having an affair and wanted to leave me. His response would have been to send her to individual counseling to work on what brought that on. Then possibly couples counseling.
We also talked about the game she plays. My therapist has had other patients in similar situations. She may have gotten so sucked into this game and the life she has in there that she is trying to turn that game into her new reality. Trying to leave her family here behind. Her in game friends are now her Facebook friends, her in game crushes are becoming her EA partners.
My therapist had read my diary too. After we talked a bit about its contents she told me that I will make quite the catch when I get through this chapter of my life. Really made me smile.
D21 was home tonight. It is nice being the parent she talks to. I bet she misses her mom though. While she ate we had a nice talk about her new job, her boyfriend, his band, and his recent show downtown. W was in her room with her tablet.
Burger, thank you for posting on my thread. I really appreciate the support. Some days are just really hard -- I know you've been there. I just want to say, having caught up on your situation, that it is so hard to live in the same environment with your spouse when you're going through this. It's emotional torture, really.
I also want to share that my H has ADD too, and that personality tends to be both impulsive and addictive, which is super dangerous in an affair situation (and for gaming). I want to write off my H's actions on his ADD (and also his migraines, seizures, narcissism), but the bottom line is that he is making choices based on who he really is now. Perhaps he is no longer the person I married, or perhaps he has always been this person but struggled to be someone else all those years. It's hard to understand, either way.
Also, my H has a lot of "virtual" friends (Facebook, and his AP is long-distance, so texting and emails were likely their main means of communication). These relationship are not built on strong foundations, because there is so much room for projection and assumption. But there's nothing we can do about it, and the WAS won't recognize this as an issue.
I'm glad you're getting emotional help and guidance from therapy. It's too easy to go down the depression wormhole when dealing with this kind of situation. I'm also glad to hear that your daughter can open up and talk to you. Even though it's hard for me to hear my daughter struggling, I'm glad she can open up to me. Kudos to you for that.
Thank-you for note Ahoy! I really aprreciate your thoughts.
it is so hard to live in the same environment with your spouse when you're going through this. It's emotional torture, really.
I’m trying to hang in there the best I can. I think the advice from Zues yesterday is spot on: try and treat her like a roommate.
I also want to share that my H has ADD too, and that personality tends to be both impulsive and addictive, which is super dangerous in an affair situation (and for gaming). I want to write off my H's actions on his ADD (and also his migraines, seizures, narcissism), but the bottom line is that he is making choices based on who he really is now. Perhaps he is no longer the person I married, or perhaps he has always been this person but struggled to be someone else all those years. It's hard to understand, either way.
I've since learned that the ADD person is very susceptible to addictions of any kind. She did get a new medication, but it’s seemed to make her focus more on the game she plays.
Also, my H has a lot of "virtual" friends (Facebook, and his AP is long-distance, so texting and emails were likely their main means of communication). These relationship are not built on strong foundations, because there is so much room for projection and assumption.
While I try to ignore her phone as best I can. Occasionally I will see a text or chat notification pop up on it. From the few I have seen I can tell that she is also lying to her new friends as well.
I'm glad you're getting emotional help and guidance from therapy. It's too easy to go down the depression wormhole when dealing with this kind of situation.
I was very far down that wormhole before I got help. At first I blamed all of this on me. Learning that this is not entirely my fault has helped me a lot. The support I receive from friends and family helps. And these forums are very valuable for learning that I’m not the only one in this situation.
You are definitely not alone! Just look at how many of us are on these boards. Sadly, this is a common scenario. With time and perspective, perhaps it won't be so overwhelming.
I think that my D21 is really helping me. Just having someone to spend time with in the evenings when I am home is awesome.