ok so started a new thread. Here is the link to my story so far:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...555#Post2533555First off I want to say thank you to Cadet and Linda for the responses. I very much understand and agree with what you had to say. This really is her crisis and she needs to continue to follow that path to its end. I had to give a call to my lawyer today to make sure I was completely covered with her moving out. He will more then likely be giving her lawyer a call/email today... who knows what the fallout might be from that, either way I'm not worried. I had a pretty good IC session today too, she offered comment on my W strange behavior this weekend. Effectively she chocked it up to denial, that as my W is forced to face the reality of the situation she uses things to help facilitate her own denial. Its a coping mechanism, which she says is completely different from how I am coping with it.
Cadet you are absolutely right the 180 here is to let go. For years I have always been there to help her in both my marriage and in life in general. I'm a fixer, when presented with a problem I look for a solution, sometimes right sometimes wrong, and set to fixing it. One of the fundamental lessons I have learned (and am still learning) is the let go, release control of the things I can't change, and stop trying to manipulate things to my favor. Honestly, that sums up so much of what has been wrong in my marriage for a long time. So yup time to 180 that S#*t and be a better version of myself.
Linda thanks for the words of encouragement, it is certainly my hope that I can be counted among those in the future. But for now she has a lot of work to do... and as Cadet and you have said its best for all concerned if she does that on her own. Its amazing how crazy can be sometimes! I think like your toothbrush story, she has done certain things deliberately to try and mess with me. I spotted it early and learned to try my best not to react to it anymore. On a side note operation AFSD is progressing nicely, been hitting the gym to get back into shape... and may have turned a head or two the other day in class. Not acting on it but nice to see
You know I read something the other day that said this.... If you really want to help foster a greater feeling of love, open up your contact list in your phone... find those friends that you make frequent contact with, or are you favorites list, and make a point of spending more time with them. I think in a lot of ways that is really some good advice, you don't need a ton of friends just those select few who really have your back. And just to address the whole group message thing. Honestly it was anything to crazy, but what I think it really was was a plea to send her love and "please like me like me". Maybe I'm wrong there... either way its her story not mine.
So here it is the new link! I'll keep posting here and looking for that support. But more importantly if I can help someone else out, even if its to let them know that they are not alone... that someone else is out there riding the same crazy train, then that will be enough!
I'll keep posting here and looking for that support.
But more importantly if I can help someone else out, even if its to let them know that they are not alone... that someone else is out there riding the same crazy train, then that will be enough!
So welcome to your new thread.
Great job linking them both up - done like a pro!
I heard an old tale that new threads can bring change so here is hoping that your new thread brings you great changes.
I see you are posting on others threads.
That is really a great idea and helps for this board to continue to give others support.
Also others will read your thread to give you support too.
Keep us Posted!
I love your thread title!
Thanks Cadet! Here's hoping! And thanks Calopie, thought it was a fitting title.
A quick little GAL update... Tonight I had the opportunity to go out and have a sushi dinner with one of my best friends. It was great to simply get out and enjoy some good company and good food. I can't tell you how long it has been since I did something like that.
So here's to more of GAL and to being the best version of myself I can be!
I like your new thread title too Andy! Very positive
So, did your wife move out, and did you get any fall out from your call to your lawyer? How are your daughters handling it all? It's so nice to read you're going out with your friends. Yum, a little sushi with old friends makes any day a little brighter right?
Hey, I had some interesting news today. My ex has decided he does not want to be alone, and since I won't take him back, he has decided to marry his Russian girlfriend whom he deserted just three weeks ago! Now how is that for an excellent reason to get married? Their plan is for her to come here to New York on a regular tourist visa, get married, and then apply for a spouse visa. It boggles my mind.
To make sure I am staying strong, and am fighting my innate urge to rescue and fix everyone (my ex in this case
) I like to read over my old notes from the past 6 years, and found some on detachment that I hope may help you. So here is still another list which I copied from someone's thread on the forum here. Maybe URWorthy, maybe Job. I'm sorry I cannot remember and therefore give credit.
Detachment is the:
- Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves
- Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational
- Giving another person the space to be himself
- Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people
- Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person
- Developing and maintaining a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life
- Establishing emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence
- Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering
- Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling
- Placing all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life
- Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point
- Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them
- Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be"
- Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you
My biggest problems were with accepting that I could not change my ex, with not feeling guilty when I saw him floundering and did not rush to help him, and in letting him accept responsibility for and suffer the consequences of his own actions. Do you have any problems with any of these?
Hey guys today.... Well actually tonight has been one hell of a ride.... I will post more about it tomorrow.
I'm not sure if this violates board policies but I just wanted to share:
http://youtu.be/EddjOiFcp9YAt first I watched this several times because of the guy on the tambourine.... Still makes me smile..... Then one day I listened more to the words, and honestly in some ways this summarizes what I have been feeling with my WAW. Anyways if the tambourine guy puts a smile on one persons face then mission accomplished!
I'm not sure if this violates board policies but I just wanted to share:
For future reference - YES it does!
We will hope no one sees it!
Great thanks Cadet! I'll make sure not to do it again
ok so its a new day. As I have been saying for the past month or so, "new day new start make the most of it." Yesterday evening turned out to be really tough. I helped my W pick up the bunk beds for my daughters, and move it to her new place. I know some of you here would disagree with helping her at all. I however felt that in an effort to be friendly I would give her a hand. So smile on my face and being as chipper and helpful as I could muster I helped her do it. It all went well and we moved it without any incidents. She was very thankful for the help, to include driving the large conversion van she rented to move it all. I did not anticipate how crappy I was going to feel after it was all said and done and she had retreated down to her room in the basement. Simply put I think I was mentally, and physically exhausted and went to bed feeling totally drained.
Wow Linda how are you handling that whole situation? I can imagine that has to be really tough, and I agree great reason to get remarried. Why is it that they can't seem to see that what they really need to do is get some help.... like real pro help?? It seems so obvious! I guess maybe that is my Mr. fixit side coming out. That list is a great one, and can I say... ummm yes to all of it. So many things on that list apply to me. I think that I am slowly working through acceptance to many of these things... and it is certainly hard work. Guilt in not stepping in the save my W has bee definitely a struggle. Like I think I told Cadet, letting go... of pretty much everything is probably the Key 180 that I can do. I'm always trying to fix things, or trying to minimize damage. I've been working on stoping that behavior, and taking that energy and refocusing it on healing myself.
Has she moved out yet? Nope not yet, supposedly in a little over a week will be the big move day (the 14th or 15th). Unfortunately I don't think that my lawyer has sent hers an email yet, as he said he would BCC me in on it. So no fallout from it yet... but I have no doubt that there will be, at least I'm preparing for it. Both of my D's are doing the best that they can i think. I actually got an email from a mutual friend of ours suggesting a counselor for my D8 to see. I felt it was out of the blue and when I inquired found out that her and my W had talked about it. Naturally I brought it up with my W on our way to her new place last night, and came up with a plan is my D8 expresses desire to do this.
OK so another question I have to put out there. What the heck do I do about my wedding ring? Do I keep wearing it? Do I take it off? My W took her's off before she actually filed the D paperwork months ago. Up until now I have kept mine on... but I'll be honest with you I'm starting to feel a little silly with it on.... I mean why? Now I'm sure that Cadet will jujitsu this question back onto me in someway
But I'm curious if taking it off means I'm saying its done. If there is a question of why take it off... again I feel a bit silly with it on, if the other person and what it represents is gone/lost/ checked out right now. Also I can't help but think right now, as I sit across from a pretty woman, taking it off lets me go and talk to her. Am I wrong in this thinking? Like always your guy/girls impute is always welcome.
Side note its amazing how going for a run helps to clear my mind and brighten my mood.... even if it was on a treadmill cause it bitter cold out today. Operation AFSD continues with positive results... I got hit on in class yesterday
What the heck do I do about my wedding ring?
Do I keep wearing it?
Do I take it off?
My W took her's off before she actually filed the D paperwork months ago. Up until now I have kept mine on... but I'll be honest with you I'm starting to feel a little silly with it on.... I mean why?
Now I'm sure that Cadet will jujitsu this question back onto me in someway
But I'm curious if taking it off means I'm saying its done. If there is a question of why take it off... again I feel a bit silly with it on, if the other person and what it represents is gone/lost/ checked out right now. Also I can't help but think right now, as I sit across from a pretty woman, taking it off lets me go and talk to her.
Am I wrong in this thinking?
Personally I did not take my ring off until maybe 6 months after my divorce, which was just over three years ago.
Bomb drop getting close to 6 years ago now.
I think this is a highly personal decision that their is no right or wrong answer.
As far as talking to someone else - thats OK.
But I would not start a relationship with someone else until,
I was divorced,
I had healed from the marriage I was leaving,
I looked at myself and really figured some things out.
I doubt you are DONE, just yet.
These things all take TIME lots of TIME.
My wife took her rings off about a month ago. it was painful. She said she doesn't feel married anymore. Makes it easier for her to continue the affair I guess. I still have mine on and don't intend taking it off now. Just used to it being on
IMHO....
I wasn't going to take my ring off until the day we signed the papers. In my head I imagined making this impact. Then in reality that would have helped me in no way, and probably wouldn't have made a dent.
Then I thought that leaving it on was just showing her through body language that I was arguing with her. Saying we had something where there was nothing. I believe that level of defiance would help me in no way. Therefore... I took it off.
That's a great song Andy. I got in the habit of naming my threads after songs which represented how ever I was feeling at the time. They ran the gamut from brokenhearted (You gave away the things you love) to strong (I will survive) LOL. "Really don't care" would make an excellent thread title
I'm glad that you are working hard on letting go. I think letting go is the hardest thing for all of us. Letting go of the person we loved so much, of all of our dreams and expectations for a happy and financially stable future full of love and fun and kids and grand kids. Damn expectations LOL. URWorthy gave me a visual image of me holding onto my ex's pant leg, dragging me around on the ground after him, to help me understand that my ex really did not love me any more and did not want to be married, and that I needed to let go and allow him to complete his journey on his own. I'm thinking he is not done yet, not by a long shot, don't you agree?
If there is a question of why take it off... again I feel a bit silly with it on, if the other person and what it represents is gone/lost/ checked out right now. Also I can't help but think right now, as I sit across from a pretty woman, taking it off lets me go and talk to her.
I took my wedding ring off the day we decided to file for divorce, December 4, 2013. Like Cadet, my bomb was a long time ago, December 2009. I'd always hoped that my ex would wake up some day, because his affairs seemed more like fantasies to me, with all the women EAs in Russia, but this current OW (his fiancee LOL) is different. I guess I knew my marriage was over when he went to visit her, and still was infatuated after living in Moscow for a month. To me, that marked the end of that chapter in my life, but I kept wearing my ring until we decided to divorce. I miss it though, because it was sparkly and pretty, so I am wearing a beautiful opal ring instead. My finger felt sort of bare after 38 years.
Andy, please please please do not start a new relationship until you have healed from your marriage. I know it's probably a big temptation, especially if women are noticing the new ASFD you, but please believe me, you will just be setting yourself up for more heart ache if you do. Plus, I have always felt that people who get into relationships while they are still married are really doing the exact same thing their husband or wife did, having an affair.
Thanks for all the responses I figured that I would get a few responses with the ring question. You guys all have very good points. I guess the jury is still out on this one.... SRD I can def relate there, my W took hers off before we had actually filed anything... and it really did hurt. Before that she had taken off a necklace that I had given her. I think that hurt just as much because it represented me, her, and out daughters. She basically hadn't take it off since I gave it to her 7 years ago.
Mahhhty, I think that is why up until now I have left it on. Right along the same reasons that you listed, defiance, symbol that I still hold out hope, and lastly that when I take it off and she notices that it might make an impact. Honestly I think on that last one falls into that big old sphere of control. That by somehow me taking it off means that a light will pop on in her head and bam things will come back together. The truth is that this probably will not happen... I guess it could happen... but probably won't.
Cadet, and Linda as always you words certainly bare a lot of weight and I appreciate them. This whole ring things is definetely I very personal one, and one I think I'm not ready to answer yet... The reality is that the divorce papers are filed, she is moving out in a week, and right now at this moment there appears to be no hope on the marriage front. I know that can alway change but acceptance is also a good thing. It lets me simply let go of that aspect on my life and focus more intently on making things better for me. You two can rest assured that I'm not about to hop into any kind of relationship right now. It certainly feels nice to have some attractive women take notice and feel confident enough to talk with them. But I'm not interested in any new relationship right now, I've still got work to do on my end.
It is however a nice distraction form whats going on at home. Honestly I feel I just need my space, the BS and her storm continues. I've got a pretty good raincoat on but the spew is getting pretty thick and gooey.... and I'm tired of being covered in it. Her denial is so multifaceted that sometimes I'm not sure what is going on, and because of that I think it is probably best just to have some distance. Also by her moving out she might, or might not have to talk taking a look at her demons, and like we have talked about Linda, its best if she do that where I can't see it so I don't feel like jumping in to fix things.
BTW I love the idea of naming threads after songs... I might just have to borrow that one!!!
Andy, all I will say wearing your ring, or not, carries no weight of influence on her. If you are trying to relate a message to her, by keeping the ring on, it does't work. It has no effect oh her, except to think you are living in denial.
That is why it has to be your decision, and based on how it helps.....or hinders you in this journey.
Thanks Sandi I think that in a lot of ways I'm coming to a conclusion that at this point all it's doing is signaling my own denial of what is going on. At first I think it made sense to leave it on because I wasn't ready to accept things for as they are. I couldn't detach, and it was a symbol of defiance in a way. Now I think I'm at a point where I've accepted the situation for what it is, most of the time
I've fought a lot of the hard battles, learning to detach, there are still many still to fight! But over all I think it has just lost a lot of its meaning. It was a symbol of a bond to someone, a commitment, something that for now is lost... my taking it off it doesn't mean I'm giving up, I still have hope, but it just means I accept the way things are. Does that make any sense? I haven't had any coffee yet this morning
Hey guys well it has been a few days since I have posted here. In an effort to simply recount what is going on I have committed to posting both the good and the bad. And this week so far has been falling into the bad category. The best way I can describe it is like having my PMA get kicked in the teeth repeatedly. Sunday was certainly a tough day, D8 had her 9th bday... so I guess she is D9 now. Overall it was a good event, unfortunately these events usually involve mostly my W family. My family is scattered to the wind so to speak, but my mother was there. Simply put it was tough, hard to face many things that are about to change. I have become very close to my W family, in a lot of ways I have really enjoyed how close knit they all are. Hard to face the reality that that will be no more soon, or at least that is how it is looking.
On the positive side both at the party and a couple days before I did have some of her family reach out to me with some words of encouragement... and maybe a little understanding. I have been cautious about this for two reasons 1) I need to detach which includes her family too. 2) They are her support ground and I don't want to be seen as impinging on that. It still felt nice to hear those words though, but it was also hard too in a way to hear them. Does that make sense? Monday the kicks to my PMA just continued, one of my classes decided that this week was going to be the time to talk about families. I got to sit through videos after videos of what family means and how diverse the meaning could be. I really tried to put a positive spin on it but really had no luck. It was D9 official bday on Monday and she wanted to go out for dinner. I was all for it but at the last min she decided that she wanted to go see my W new place. Probably a mistake on my part, I agree to go with then out to dinner. I know I can hear everyone right now saying WTF!!!! I think in some ways I was trying to do what I thought would be best for D9, at a determent to my PMA.
The rest of the week has been struggle, I did have a bit of a win last night. I had asked D9 when she thought that it would be a good idea to move the TV's around, and start a little bit of the shift in stuff around the house. She picked last night, so when I got home from school I set out to complete that task. I can't tell you how good it felt to start to change things around the house to suit my own taste. Obviously my W was still there (she doesn't move out till Sunday now) but I did a lot of the changes without any input from her. I have a feeling that reality might have hit her a bit in the head last night. She made a point of staying up stairs, where I could hear her phone ping with what I would assume was messages from the OM. I'm pretty sure it was done deliberately, but I was so wrapped up in changing things around it didn't bug me at all. Win I think right? Anyways that is pretty much it so far. Operation AFSD continues, hitting the gym has certainly helped to add a boost to these tough days. I also am pretty immersed in school right now. Just a few more days now and then we start our new living arrangements.
Oh that also reminds me Linda you asked about fallout from the lawyer... none yet, but I don't think he actually contacted hers until this past Tuesday. I would think that if there is going to be any fallout that would happen soon. He was pretty clear that she was moving out this weekend and nothing had been put in writing yet. So how am I doing? I'd like to think I'm doing ok on the detaching. I think that next big milestone there will come after she moves out. As my best friend put it you won't be constantly being hit in the face with the OM day in day out. And she won't be able to use that as a tool of manipulation. Oh and I also have decided that once she moves out the ring is coming off. I certainly hope that some day I will be able to put it back on, I remain hopeful that this marriage can still be saved. I guess that a good place to end, for now. I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.
Andy...
Sorry it was an up and down week. On a good note... Someone told me that it is a good sign if the family reaches out to you with words of encouragement. Words of encouragement mean they care for you. If they care for you, then if anything changes on her end the road home will be paved a little smoother.
So today and this weekend is going to be particularly hard. As much as I know that my W moving out is going to allow me more of the freedom to detach and to stop a lot of the cake eating that is going on. I still can't help but view this as a bit of a set back to my sitch. Are things continuing with her and the OM, yes. Does she constantly only pay me and the kids attention only when she feels like it, yes. I am trying my best to stay positive and up beat about all of this... certainly from a DB side, but it has been extremely hard to do. I really wish she wasn't so damn stubborn. I guess we will just have to take this one day at a time right now. I know I have read so many stories of things changing at a moments notice, that even the day before a WAW snapped out of it they were texting their OM/OW. Its hard to take solace in those stories right now but I'm trying. I have tried also to analyze my own work a bit. Tried to figure out if I'm actually getting better in the place that I need to. That has been a hard one to answer, I want to say yes, I think it gets muddied by the constant spew I have been dealing with though. This is a 180 for me though, to simply let her go, to not say anything, to let her make this decision on her own. But this is very hard work, and a very hard thing to do.
Today is moving day.... And this morning the gas lighting started.
Hang in there buddy, we're here for you...
So this is the day after... Yesterday was probably one of the hardest things that I have had to do. I took a page from a DB post, and helped her move. Yes I know that it opened me up to more pain, and probably more grief then I needed, but I felt it was the right thing to do. It did provided me with a couple opportunities where her family reached out to me again. They were as dumbfounded as I am to the whole thing. It certainly helped to hear their words of encouragement.
Both my D's seem to be taking it all in stride... it is good to see that all of my work to prepare them for this reality has helped and payed off, at least for right now. In someways I guess it goes to show what everyone has been saying, kids are hardy they can take a lot.
Now to the real question how am I doing? I'm at a loss for words, hurting... in pain... strong... all of the above. All of the above seems to be the best category for it. It has been really painful to move throughout the house and be reminded that she isn't here anymore. Yet even as I say that I think to myself, what I have been living for the last few months has been terrible. Terrible with only little points of good which I tried desperately to cling to, like it was signaling a change.... it wasn't I believe it was only a reflection of her denial. I know that it will get better, this is just day one. I have spent the last 6 months (and probably longer) adjusting to a new normal, every time I have come out stronger.... this is just one of those times. It still [censored]!
Yes it does.
My X moved out while I was at a football game. I came home to a house with no bedroom, but I got stronger. More self-reliant, self-aware, etc.
You stepped up for what you believed was correct (moving her out). That speaks to your character. You are already seeing how it has changed you. I bet deep down inside you know you will come out on top. You can wether the storm and be the person you want to be, because it is what you want, and your strong enough to get it!
Thanks for all the support. Day one just simply [censored]! I have been able to hangout with D9 today even took her to class with me (she had today off). That has helped me to stay distracted.... But now home and working on the evening routine it's still hard... I know today is just day one, first day waking up without her in the house, first day not having her around for dinner. Do I take solice in the fact that it's also day one I don't have to hear her phone go bing with messages from the OM? Or have her check out... Maybe... It's not that comforting though.
We pulling in tonight and D5 said where is momma? I said she is at her new place... She then said I wonder what she is wearing, I want to go see her cause I don't remember what she looks like.... Crushing... Just crushing...
I know that feeling all too well. It does get easier. I try to get out of the house as much as possible.
so sorry you are in so much pain now Andy, my poor friend. And your poor girls too. But...this is something your wife really needed to do, the next step in her journey. I really believe that letting her go with love and no nastiness or bitterness is your best chance at ever getting her back.
I'm proud of you for helping her to move, and for all of the preparation you did for your girls, to help them to deal with this loss. This is such a hard time for you. You know that old cliche, that today is the first day of the rest of your life? Well really that is true. Yesterday was a new beginning for you. Go on and make your life awesome. Finish school, continue to be a strong loving supportive dad to your daughters. Continue Project Anti-Frumpy-Single-Dad. Hopefully your wife will wake up, see all the awesomeness, and want a piece of that. And if not, you will be in the very best position to go on to the next chapter in your life, and some other wonderful woman will want a piece of it. Yup, I truly believe that, because it is exactly what happened to me, and I am almost 30 years older than you!
I feel the need to post... honestly I'm not too sure what I'm going to say so I will let it flow and see where it takes me. Well I've now made it through day 1 and 2. Day 2 came a little easier, unfortunately it was met pretty early with a challenge. The new arrangement is that my W comes to the house to pick the kids up and take them to school 2 days a week. That is what happened yesterday, but she showed up early and then proceeded to head downstairs to grab things she had left behind. I know what you are all screaming right now... boundaries BOUNDARIES!! I was whole heartedly not prepared to face that, I should have had a plan in place, and if it had been any other day (not day 2) I would have had the kids all ready to go. But I didn't I was struggling to make the morning routine... well routine and I was behind. She took the opportunity and exploited it, to include then walking to our bedroom to get a jewelry box she left. Fortunately I had recovered enough to stop the invasion of my ( and the kids space). I was able to assert myself enough to make it clear that wasn't ok.
The night before ( a little after I made the post on Mon) my W finally texted me and asked if it would be ok if she called and talked to the girls. I said absolutely and she also figured out how to set up FaceTime so the kids could actually see her. I think being able to FaceTime her really helped them. She also asked if she could have my help picking up some mattress for the kids bed at her place, I had offered to do that for her on the weekend. I agreed, but only on a time frame that worked for me. So yesterday I met up with her at the store and loaded two mattress into my car. Again I personally feel this falls into the DB mindset. I am the husband that she would be a fool to leave (she just can't see that yet) and want to see my kids feel comfortable at her place. She thanked me a number of times for helping, as she had on the weekend when I helped her move. The rest of the day proceeded without incident and I met them at Hockey, then the kids and I went home. She didn't stay for D9 practice. Unfortunately the whole situation caught up with D5 last night. She was really having trouble falling asleep and as I lay with her, she began to cry. She said it had been along time since we had talked to them (its was back at the end of Oct that we told the kids we were getting divorced) and said that you and Momma used to be best friends. That was pretty hard to hear, and all I could do was tell her it was ok to cry.
I am nervous about how tonight is going to go... they have their first overnights with the W tonight. I'm concerned for how my D's are going to do... but I'm also worried about how I'm going to do. Especially tonight... I have tried my best to plan things out so that I just keep busy. I did however read a great article that talked about being present with the pain of loss. To look at the things that hurt to accept the pain, and really just feel it. I'm not sure if that is what I am going to do, I think in a way that is what I did on 1 and 2 just stayed present with it. I guess we will see. Thank you so very much for the hugs, kind words, and reading. If I can inspire or give comfort to one person that they aren't alone then its worth posting. As always my hope is that one day I can be standing here talking about my success story and how I Busted my Divorce.
I just read Wonka's thread on Validating... Why did I not see this sooner!!
Andy I just came out with a new welcome thread
I will give it to you for anything you might have missed.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Sandi's Rules: A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2380415&page=1Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
(
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2534754&page=1).
Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2183063&fpart=1Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Wow... looks like I have some light reading
Thanks Cadet the couple of threads that I have just read have been super helpful. I think that is a great way to greet newbies. Personally speaking when I first came to the forum I felt overwhelmed and in a complete tailspin. I had picked up DR and was reading it, but there in the trenches I felt it was really hard to apply the concepts, while dodging spew balls. I wish I had read both the validating and the setting boundaries threads earlier on. They really put things in perspective.
Speaking of boundaries (and you all know I have struggled with this one both early on and now) I actually set and stood up for one today. It was met with spew, but in an effort to shake it off my spew coat I'm going to post it here:
A couple days ago it was discussed with the W about coming by to pick up some more of her things. She also tried to float at me the day she was moving out about staying at the house to watch our friends kid and along with me D5. This topic has come up numerous times and I have said no each time.... sometimes taking a few days to think about it. Well this morning I got a text about my W wanting to stop by to "pick up some toys for D5, to play with today" and wanted to know when I leave the house. I knew this was coming, and anticipated, so I told her when I usually leave but could hang around for a little extra if that would give her enough time to pick up the toys (and as I new some of her things too). That time came and as my W collected her things, she asked if I would be home this afternoon. I told her no, and then the inevitable question came "is it ok if i come by and pick up more of my things" (she needs to drop my D5 off at school which is right around the corner). My response "no", followed by me grabbing my spew coat cause here it came. Despite spew, and attempts to manipulate my emotions, I remained calm, offered her another time that she could come over when I was home, but remained firm on the no. WOOHOOO! win for me I actually enforced a boundary that has been pushed at repeatedly for almost a week. The house is now my kids and my space, she choose to leave and while I am sympathetic to her getting her things, it is our space now.
guys/gals this is a huge 180 for me, for the last year and a half I have just let all my boundaries be violated. I've complied, been a push over, and let me W manipulate me till I dropped one boundary after another. It became an accepted behavior, something that I have hated, and felt so disrespected about. The honest truth is that it was allowed by no one other then me. Over this whole ordeal I have blamed my W for disrespecting me... but again the truth is that it was me that allowed it. So 180 time, no sorry with all the due respect no you can not come over when I am not home. At first I let it get to me once I she had left, but now I'm feeling a lot better about it. This will go in the books as a win.
I was really worried that last night I was going to miss my kids terribly. I did, however something unexpected happened. It felt really good to have a night off, no one to be accountable to except myself. Over the last year that has been something else that I have sacrificed, my own space. In an effort to placate my W I have absorbed more and more of the responsibility for the kids. That allowed her to retreat into her own world. I later learned that that time taking a "nap" was really her laying in bed talking and messaging the various OM. Also when the kids did go to the grandparents so I had a break, the evenings were usually spent with my W texting OM. Last night was the first in a long time where it was just me, I ate what I wanted enjoyed watching what I wanted on TV, studying and relaxing. It was an unexpected perk.
Andy ! Good job! Does your W have a key to your house though? If so, change the locks. She has no right having access to your house. How did your girls handle their first night away from home?
She does still have a key. But I received the kit to rekey the locks yesterday. I just didn't want to try and tackle it last night. I have a chem. exam in a few hours so a lot of things have been put on hold until I get through that
And thanks Linda I felt kinda proud of myself when I wrote that post this morning... like I had finally taken a good step on the boundaries front. My kids seem to have handled it ok. At least they seemed happy when I FaceTimed with them last night. D5 was cheery when she came with my W to the house this morning. Tonight is night 2 so we will see how that goes. Of course my W bought them new toys... so between that and this is a new adventure for them that might have contributed to it. Honestly as long as they are happy and safe I'm good with it.
Honestly as long as they are happy and safe I'm good with it.
Good luck on the chem exam! And I think that is a great outlook.
Organic chem was my favorite class in nursing school- how did you do on your test? What else are you taking - A&P? Pharmacology? And how did night 2 go? Did you do any GAL activities? How did the girls handle it?
I felt kinda proud of myself when I wrote that post this morning... like I had finally taken a good step on the boundaries front.
You have every right to feel proud of yourself! Setting boundaries and enforcing them was so difficult for me during my stand. I let so many things I had always assumed would be deal breakers for me in my marriage slide by for so long, in some kind of pitiful Pollyannish hope that my ex would wake up and realize on his own that what he was doing was wrong. He did not LOL.
The vets always reminded me that boundaries were meant to protect me, and had to be enforceable. So while I would have liked to tell my ex he had to stop his affair, I had no way to enforce that. My major boundary was that he could only skype the Russian Tramp (my pet name for his OW
) in his own bedroom. Not much of a boundary, I admit, but it helped me a lot to not have to hear them talking and giggling all over the house, bleeeech.
You are doing so well Andy. Do you see any other boundaries that would protect you and your girls?
So today and honestly for the last couple of days I have been struggling with which way I should be taking things in respect to my marriage. I know that it has only been a week since she moved out, and that in the grand scheme of time my sitch has not been that long. As everyone has read from my posts I have certainly struggled with learning to detach, something that I almost equate to being addicted to a drug. I believe that on that front I have made some great strides, and am learning how negative an effect griping tighter and tighter was. I have also learned how sacrificing my boundaries, how the constant rolling over, never helped things in my marriage. In fact it probably helped to make things worse.
Now I hear the many of the people (my support group) screaming in my head "stop blaming myself. Stop taking all the responsibility". Don't get me wrong I'm not taking all of it, I'm just owning up to my part as a self reflection. That being said here is where my struggle is, I have had a few interactions with my W in the last 4 days. Mainly it has come as text messages, but a couple have been with her coming by the house to pick things up or drop off my D's. On Friday my W began texting me about needing some tools to hang a shelf. I tried to keep my distance by choosing not to respond right away to her messages. At one point she said "hanging shelves are not my strong suit". I think that would have been an opportunity to be a cheer leader to her and simply say "I know that you can do it" or something along those lines. I didn't I just simply left it as a basic response. Later on Sunday when she dropped the kids off she offered praise on the new chalkboard wall I had created for my D's. Again said thank you but didn't really go overboard or anything (I think at that moment I simply wanted her to drop the kids and go). My thoughts here are that right now I need to creat some distance, shes moved out, shes gone her choice. I need to focus on me and my own self worth/healing. Am I right on this line of thinking? or am I doing more damage? Honestly me detaching and not being at her beckon call is a 180 for me, and to go back to my drug analogy, its like someone "come on just a little bit, it will feel so good" I really looking for some guidance here. To answer the how am I doing question? I'm actually doing pretty good, kinda surprisingly. It [censored] and I have my moments.... but this isn't as terrible as I had thought it would be.
I'm really looking for some advice here, I don't want to make things worse from a marriage standpoint. After all the reason that I'm posting here is because I want to save my marriage, not at the expense of my own self-worth, but want to save it none the less.
My thoughts here are that right now I need to creat some distance, shes moved out, shes gone her choice.
I need to focus on me and my own self worth/healing.
Am I right on this line of thinking?
or am I doing more damage? Honestly me detaching and not being at her beckon call is a 180 for me, and to go back to my drug analogy, its like someone "come on just a little bit, it will feel so good" I really looking for some guidance here.
Yes you are correct in this line of thinking.
FOCUS on YOU, that is great advice for yourself.
Dude? Marriage standpoint? Really? What marriage? In her eyes she left and marriage is non existant...
Thanks guys/gals for the input. and to hear that I'm on the right track. Yeah Vapo I see what you are saying... just not too sure how else to refer to it. I know its done, she's gone, and doesn't view any of this as being able to be saved. I don't share her thinking on this. Again gets back to what I have been saying for 2 months "I don't believe that divorce is the answer to our problems. None the less if you are choosing to leave then I love and respect you enough to let you go." That being said I'm not going to sacrifice myself for anything that is dead. I just want to make sure that while I move through my own healing, I'm not blowing huge holes in the road home. I guess that is what I'm getting at in that post. Taking care of me, without directly shelling the hell out of the road.
BTW Linda I have taken to referring to the OM when talked about with close friends ( which is very few and far between) as kangaroo F'er. That always puts a little smile on my face
Andy,
These are my two cents...
As everyone has read from my posts I have certainly struggled with learning to detach, something that I almost equate to being addicted to a drug. I believe that on that front I have made some great strides, and am learning how negative an effect griping tighter and tighter was. I have also learned how sacrificing my boundaries, how the constant rolling over, never helped things in my marriage. In fact it probably helped to make things worse.
Remember that almost everyone (if not everyone) struggles with detaching. It is exactly the opposite of what your gut reaction is. So your brain is trying to convince you that lashing out, talking, reasoning, expressing your feelings is needed to feel better. And sometimes it feels great for a couple of seconds, but it will backfire.
And I know you are right, the tighter you held on, the more she wanted to leave. I did the same thing.
Now I hear the many of the people (my support group) screaming in my head "stop blaming myself. Stop taking all the responsibility". Don't get me wrong I'm not taking all of it, I'm just owning up to my part as a self reflection. That being said here is where my struggle is...
Be careful of family and friends. Naturally, they are in your corner, not many if any will be even slightly objective. Because they care for you, they know you and subconsciously rationalize your position based off those judgements they will be driven to figure out the easiest way for
you and
themselves to feel better. This is an instantaneous impulse. They are trying to fix today. What is wrong today or in the moment. They can not be trusted to fully understand or validate the approach you are going down.
I find myself sticking up for the X in conversations, and my family says the same thing... You are taking too much responsibility. She should have approached you. blah blah blah. Fact of the matter is, you are here b/c you want to learn and get back on track and pull your family together. So you are going to be much more open about what you could have done differently b/c you are learning from it.
Mainly it has come as text messages, but a couple have been with her coming by the house to pick things up or drop off my D's. On Friday my W began texting me about needing some tools to hang a shelf. I tried to keep my distance by choosing not to respond right away to her messages. At one point she said "hanging shelves are not my strong suit". I think that would have been an opportunity to be a cheer leader to her and simply say "I know that you can do it" or something along those lines. I didn't I just simply left it as a basic response.
I struggle with this too. It is hard to make an impact on your Spouse when you have conflicted emotions and premises and are trying hard to implement the DB rules. If it is possible, keep the road paved smooth and start with words of affirmation and validation, with a smile. If possible...
I need to focus on me and my own self worth/healing. Am I right on this line of thinking? or am I doing more damage? Honestly me detaching and not being at her beckon call is a 180 for me, and to go back to my drug analogy, its like someone "come on just a little bit, it will feel so good" I really looking for some guidance here.
You are here. You are learning. You are implementing what you are learning. Keep doing those things. It is shitty that you are here (this goes for all of us). Some of life's best lessons are learned at the worst times. Learn from your mistakes, learn from your marriage, focus on yourself and your girls.
Although I hate it, I do know that I need to get my mind right and detach so the pursuer becomes the distancer and the distancer becomes the pursuer if there is ever a chance.
Again my two cents. Good luck!
Andy, my point was that you can't be afraid of losing her, for she is already lost to you...
I will have to admit that over the last week I have found things to be ver y much a struggle.... a little why I haven't posted anything. I guess the place to start would be on Tuesday. I arrived at my D's hockey practice and the encounter with my W was fine. We needed to sort out scheduling issues coming up with kids. That went perfectly well we were able to compromise on where the changes needed to be made. I needed to bring up a matter about a bill that she is on the hook to pay, and that is when the bottom dropped out.
The Friday before she had moved out I had two separate conversation with my lawyer about the ins and outs of child support. I won't get into the details, but it basically comes down to a number which both the lawyers calculated. When it was presented to me I agreed to it, and my lawyer warned that my W might be a little angry when I got home. I returned home and nothing was brought up. Apparently her lawyer didn't get around to telling her the child support number until the beginning of this week. So I was completely blindsided at hockey when she became very angry and stated that "she her lawyer had contacted her about the child support number". Effectively she said that it was BS and that she was going to both talk to her lawyer the next day and fight it.
I made a couple statements where I validated her feelings "I can appreciate that you are upset about this, but this is number that the lawyers came up with". and "I understand that you are upset right now, however the way that I understand it this all gets put into a calculator it pops out a number". I think I did the best that I could to both validate the emotions that she as feeling while at the same time not giving any real "ground" so to speak. I also refused to get angry. If I have learned anything from taking a hard look at myself its that I could in the past very easily be goaded into a fight. I remained calm and spent the rest of the practice showering my D5 with attention. Obviously I had to speak with my lawyer the next day to let him know the situation. Again I've also know for a long time what the child support number was, what the process was, and how it all works. I guess that is what you do when your W says "I want a divorce, the kids can stay with you". I spent the first month after she made that statement to me learning all that I could, so if the papers came it wouldn't be shock. The papers did come and I have been able to make very informed decisions, both for me and my D's ever since.
I guess what this really comes down to is me feeling like there really isn't much hope... I really appreciate the support you guys are giving me, I absolutely know that this takes time. Obviously if you have followed my sitch you know that patience can be a real challenge to me. Its one of the big 180's that I'm working on.... just sitting and waiting. I agree with everyone that has said that to her our marriage is dead, there is no hope. So how does someone cope/deal with that fact. When you want to bring your marriage back from the brink of divorce, and the other party doesn't remotely see it that way. I know and am working on my own self because I know that DB is more about my own healing then it is about the marriage. Believe me when I say that I am feeling more and more comfortable in my own skin, I have been working on me for the past year. It has been a very long road, and its probably only been 3 months since I stumbled onto DB. So where do I go from here? Is there anything that can do that I'm not doing or is it just more waiting.
And just to vent a little frustration, I'm getting a little sick of the focus on you and focus on the kids from my friends.... I've heard that so many times that I'm starting to hate hearing it. Obviously that is what I am doing, almost constantly because there is nothing else for me to do.... or devoting all my time to school. Some of the many positives that I have been doing. Bought new clothes, back at the gym, studying for school, building various projects around the house, reclaiming my home as my space for me and the kids, focusing on how the kids are doing helping them transition, helping them with school work, hanging out with friends I haven't in a long time, eating better, the list goes on. I'm also been seeing a IC for over a year, mentally I'm in the strongest place I have ever been, and a deep understanding of why I was so depressed and why I did some of the crappy things that I did. Seriously though is the only thing I can do now to keep up, sit on my hands, and simply put some kind of hope out there? But at the same time understand that my marriage is done.... there isn't any going back? Isn't that giving up? Isn't that just insane?
Hang in there buddy. Be strong... We are here for you. We understand. Outsiders usually do not, we do... I gets better, it really does. Gust give it time and work on yourself.
I've done a lot of thinking regarding hope and expectations. And I have come to understand the following. Do not give up hope, for it is hope that is driving us forward, but you must separate hope and expectations, because expectations are something, that you should not have, because expectations breed hurt. And you do not need additional hurt in your life.
Your wife is also hurting and I would bet that their hurt is several times greater than ours. But we must resist the urge to own their hurt. It is their burden to carry and lightening their load would be a disservice to them. We must love them and leave them to their journey. We must not interfere, because it is not our place to do so.
Dude, do not sit on your hands. Go, live a little, get your mojo back. Dress sharp, look sharp, smell sharp and you will start to feel sharp. Make a plan for your life that does not include your W. Make intermediate goals for yourself. Create something in your life you you will have something to look forward to. Plan to go to a concert or a road trip in a couple of months' time. Having something in your sights does wonders. Trust me...
Hang in there friend. We got your back!
Thanks Vapo.... I might set some short term goals... That might help a bit.
I think I'm ready to just simply give up.... Things are probably at one if he lowest points.... My W has decided to go to war with me over child support on top of that she has been completely unreasonable selfish and self centered... I know about that I need to be detached... I am because I really don't care at this point, and I guess that is why I think I'm just want to give up. I'm tired of all of it, of staying positive, of trying to leave the road paved smoothed... Of being the bigger person, of taking the higher road ... It's only been met with more spew more bs.... I know this takes time, a long time.... And I know like in your case Linda I may find that too much times goes by. I know it's her journey... She is going to walk It and get as messed up as she is ... But she is dragging my kids with her, she is continuing to throw poop my way and all I want to do is blow up every bit of the road home..... Burn every bridge and just sit on the side with a beer and watch the fireworks....
Have you been seeing a C? Right now you haven't detached which is why you're so affected.
Yes I have been seeing a counselor for a year now. And I have healed my self in ways I never thought possible. I'm in such a better place then I was when I started. Honestly healing ,myself and focusing on my D's has been all I've been doing for months. You are probably right I haven't detached..... I'm not at a point where her spew doesn't affect me and I am not completely indifferent to walking down this path to divorce. Unfortunately I'm still hooked to the idea that this can be saved... That divorce isn't the answer. Even though It's only getting uglier
I think I'm ready to just simply give up.... Things are probably at one if he lowest points.... My W has decided to go to war with me over child support on top of that she has been completely unreasonable selfish and self centered... I know about that I need to be detached... I am because I really don't care at this point, and I guess that is why I think I'm just want to give up. I'm tired of all of it, of staying positive, of trying to leave the road paved smoothed... Of being the bigger person, of taking the higher road ... It's only been met with more spew more bs.... I know this takes time, a long time.... And I know like in your case Linda I may find that too much times goes by. I know it's her journey... She is going to walk It and get as messed up as she is ... But she is dragging my kids with her, she is continuing to throw poop my way and all I want to do is blow up every bit of the road home..... Burn every bridge and just sit on the side with a beer and watch the fireworks....
Andy,
I got to this same point a few months back. If you look back at my thread, I didn't say it so succinctly, but I thought I was completely done. I said I had enough. I pulled back and tried to do my own thing. I was feeling better about the sitch, I was back functioning, etc. Then I realized I still cared about my W and still wanted it to work out, I just realized I couldn't do anything to affect it. Well, then the 2x4 hit me. I was starting to detach. My fear was that I would stop caring about her if I detached, but those feelings don't turn off, it's just acceptance you can't do anything about the sitch right now.
Your wife is also hurting and I would bet that their hurt is several times greater than ours. But we must resist the urge to own their hurt. It is their burden to carry and lightening their load would be a disservice to them. We must love them and leave them to their journey. We must not interfere, because it is not our place to do so.
This has been posted a couple times, but I haven't seen it in a while. Written by a WAW trying to pursue and A
No Peace for the Prodigal
I'm in such a better place then I was when I started. Honestly healing ,myself and focusing on my D's has been all I've been doing for months. You are probably right I haven't detached..... I'm not at a point where her spew doesn't affect me and I am not completely indifferent to walking down this path to divorce.
I'm at a class at work but just had to address this. You ARE detaching. And doing really well. Don't be so hard on yourself Andy. I doubt that anyone is honestly completely immune to feeling hurt when their former lover and best friend lashes out irrationally and unfairly. You're doing fine. Let it roll off your back the best you can, and carry on.
Thanks for the responses especially yours Linda. Yesterday was just a bad day I probably shouldn't have posted... My W has decided to make child support a huge issue, and doesn't seem to like the fact or amount that she is going to have to pay me. On top of that she has decided to try and play the "I just want time with my kids card" even though she has made it prett clear it's more about not paying money then it is about spending time with the kids... Based on her own actions over the last two weeks. It is what it is... I was just really upset yesterday, and it was hard to keep my eye on the ball of light at the end of the tunnel.... Slicing apart the difference between hope and expectations is where I think the work needs to be right now.
Slicing apart the difference between hope and expectations is where I think the work needs to be right now.
When I have an interaction and my mind starts racing about all the possibilities (questions about OM, motivation for saying or doing something, anything really, etc), a technique I use to curb expectation is to think about everything as a range of possibilities. Think about the worst possible outcome and the best possible outcome and realize that both are possible. This is a way to come to terms with the possible reality and any expectations associated with it.
So yesterday I was going to post a lot of questions, because I have been really struggling for a week now. I think that part of it is detachment, part of it is being to critical of myself (probably something I need to work on there), and I think part trying to figure out where I go from here. In a lot of ways I have improved and made huge strides.... in others I certainly still struggle, sometimes I think that little things are what brings me to my knees. It hasn't helped that I have endured spew and manipulation.... long phone calls with the lawyer, enacting contingency plansI had hoped that I would never have to enact.
Then I read Sandi2 post "For the newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife"
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...nt=5&page=1I have to tell you I really wish I had this to read months ago... maybe even a year ago. It brought a spot light into an area of my sitch that I have been looking at all wrong. I helped to show that what I thought I was doing to try to improve things, was more then likely making things worse. I know some would caution me here, but honestly I think that she hit the nail on the head in my sitch. My W is gone, wrapped into a self absorbed, rebellious bubble. The traditional approaches to DBing as a WAW have not been working... maybe they did a little bit back in Dec when I first came to this site. I also think at that time I had taken a harder stance then I had since I first learned of the first A. As I caved and started more appeasement again.... it fell apart. When I took my stand drew some boundaries back in Jan, things again took a ever so slightly tick up. But by that time I think I was too far into the rabbit hole. I continued to struggle with following DBing, mostly focused on me... but wondered why I wasn't seeing anything, not one bit, not an even slight change, softening, nothing. Her post, and the comments that followed along with her responses put a lot of this into some serious light for me.
I'm now left with only one fundamental question.... how do I simply let go. I think for the first time I'm actually at a point where I understand that she isn't going to change. She's never had any intention of changing, she is on here own journey.... I sound like a broken record, its time to let go of the bread crumbs that was my marriage. Time to stop begging for the scraps. Time stop being disappointed when she doesn't call the kids at night, and then has the nerve to say through her lawyer that its all about getting more time with the kids. Its not, its about her, money, time, OM, new OM, old OM.... it doesn't matter its about whatever selfish need or want she desires. Nothing more nothing less.
Sandi2 said something else that I think hit home for me. For so long now I have blamed the OM (whichever OM you want to choose) that somehow if he wasn't in the picture that things would get better... they would change.... but really I was looking at the wrong person. I think that is evident now, as she is on A number 3 (online or otherwise). I guess this post is finally reflective of my understanding, of finally seeing things as they are, and hopefully finally understanding that my marriage is truly dead. The woman I married is gone, replaced, with someone else. Maybe one day she will be back, or even be better, but the first things that needs to happen is i need to stop supporting this new person.... it isn't someone I want to be with, and is only a ghost of the woman I once new. DBing starts with me, and its this weaker self that needs to go. warrior poet comes to mind. Strong yet, compassionate. Humble, yet strong in my convictions.
The thing about this tough love approach.... It [censored] because it feels so counter intuitive. At the same time it felt good that when my W started yelling at me on the phone I simply said i see you are upset. I'm not going to let you talk to me like that I'm hanging up good bye. Boundary? Yup.... I guess I'm learning from being here.
So things are getting worse. My W was pretty upset the other night and ambushed me on talking about child support which she seems really angry about. In the end it all seems to come down to money for her. Even after I explained that I was not prepared to talk about this, and needed to get the kids bathed and into bed she still persisted. She brought up the fact that I had changed the locks, and I explained it was a boundary issue. When she finally realized she wasn't going to get me to make agreement and move on her time table, she began to yell. I stopped the conversation right there stated "Ok this conversation is now over please leave" At first she refused and continued to yell. I again stated "this conversation is over please leave". That is when she dropped the "make me". Now this whole time I remained calm didn't raise my voice, didn't yell back. It's not worth it, it's not respectful.... And honestly it's one of my 180.... I used to let her goad me into a fight. I would get mad, start yelling, and usually say things that regretted. Almost always whatever I said would be used against me at some later date. So it came down to a split second decision, and having some experience with this kind of situation with friends, I stepped back picked up my phone and said "if I have to call the cops I will". This enraged her more and there were a few comments about "oh your such a big man" but ultimately she left.
This is now the second time in a week I have had to draw boundaries and lines. Two days prior she began yelling at me on the phone and got the same message "I'm not going to let you talk to me like that. This conversation is over I'm hanging up good bye". Honestly I'm looking for advice here, support, or comments. This is just getting ugly. I will tell you this was all followed by a long conversation with my lawyer the next morning. I also thing that when you take a step back and look at the event as I whole one thing rang true. At one point I asked her what she wanted the response I got was "I don't know what I want anymore". I think this is very telling, and might be reflective of the fact that over the last week I've stopped a lot of my own behavior that let her cake eat. I've pulled back and started to act as if we are divorced, I'm on my own path and pulled away from her. So any thoughts? Why all of a sudden has this reached a new level of terrible? Good sign? Bad sign? Is this just making everything even worse?
Unfortunately, it is the nature of the game I think. It got heated with my X as well. I think one of the problems is that everyone feels they are entitled to something. And usually the entitlement is not split even or the idea of the entitlement is not even.
In my situation I realized that I had to figure a way to communicate with her without ever letting it get to that stage of terrible. I read a book that helped because it identified validation statements, which was definitely not my strong suit. The book was talk to me like someone you love. Although it was mostly for people in relationships it definitely was useful for me. There's a fine line between making progress and getting very angry when it comes to child support you will need to learn how to toe that line and work with her to get a result.
They're also different methods, research the method that is right for you and her perhaps it is collaborative law or individual lawyers or mediation. Ultimately what you want is a method that works best for the two of you without creating more conflict. However realize that this is this extremely controversial subject and in its nature purely adversarial.
I'm Just done... This has only gotten uglier... for all of you that have said to detach... I think I finally have, because the woman my W is now I don't want to have anything to do with. I know that a lot of you have said that this all takes time... I'm not convinced that is the case here, I think that in the end my W has had multiple A. She is in love with the current man half a world away, and is firmly committed to D. I'm coming out of his with my head held high a lot better of a person then when I started. But this divorce has not been busted by any means.... In fact is has gotten so hostile on her side that we have jumped off the cliff and there is no turning back.
I'm Just done... This has only gotten uglier... for all of you that have said to detach... I think I finally have, because the woman my W is now I don't want to have anything to do with. I know that a lot of you have said that this all takes time... I'm not convinced that is the case here, I think that in the end my W has had multiple A. She is in love with the current man half a world away, and is firmly committed to D.
I just read this, and Sandi's thread about wayward wives you posted above. I was amazed to read what she wrote about her heart turning very cold and selfish, with so many negative angry furious feelings toward her husband and marriage, and how thrilling and addictive her affair was.
I guess this is how your wife is now, addicted to her current Australian, and committed to blowing up your marriage. This makes me so sad for you. But maybe realizing it is what has helped you to finally become so detached.
I found myself "done" in an instant of time, after DBing for 5 years, with the click of a door lock. I was knocking on my ex's bedroom door and instead of answering me, or even telling me to go away, he locked the door. I think maybe he was having skype sex with the Russian, or from what I now know of her, maybe they were arguing. And in an instant I went from desperately in love with him to sick of him and his affairs and nastiness and.....done, is the only way I can describe it. If this is how you feel, it will precipitate a new time of healing for you. The pain will not instantly go away, but you will learn to deal with it better, and grow stronger and get happier. Joy will return to your life. You will be the best dad you can be and help your girls cope too.
I'm coming out of his with my head held high a lot better of a person then when I started. But this divorce has not been busted by any means.... In fact is has gotten so hostile on her side that we have jumped off the cliff and there is no turning back.
So sorry to hear things have become this bad Andy. But this is what the vets mean when they say that DBing is for
YOU, that you should consider your (old) marriage dead, and become the best person you can, but for yourself, not with the motivation to win your wife back. My first marriage counselor told me exactly how to DB my ex, without calling it DBing, and told me that if I would follow his instructions, even if I was unable to save my marriage, I would become the best possible person I could be in my next relationship. Of course I did not want to hear that at the time, but it turned out to be true. I am in a wonderful relationship now with a man whom I truly respect and admire, and who cherishes me.
And this is you now Andy. The man only a fool would leave. Well your wife is a fool. I still hope and pray that she sees the error of her ways and wants you back. You are so detached that she would have to change a lot for you to take her back now, and that is a good thing. You do not want to return to the same marriage, but only to a much better one, either with her or with someone else.
And if you have really jumped off the cliff, you will find you have a parachute in us, who will give you moral support as you heal and get stronger, and in all you have learned about the 180s you needed to make, about love languages, validating, and meeting your partner's needs, to become that wonderful supportive man only a fool would leave. You will be the man Sandi speaks of, a man who is worthy of respect and attraction. And furthermore, a nurse
'm coming out of his with my head held high a lot better of a person then when I started.
Well that is a good thing.
But this divorce has not been busted by any means....
Who is to say that it couldn't be busted in a week, a month, a year. Is a year worth it to you?
It sure sounds like you are done, and you are entitled to whatever life you want. However, know that wanting anything in life does not make it so. Whatever decision you make you need to reinforce with proper action.
Good Luck Andy!
Hey Andy, how are you doing?
Checking in
hope school is going well and you have a blessed holiday!