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Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance

Posted By: HPoirot

Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/19/15 08:12 PM

Here's a link to all my threads so far...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rted&page=1

George Orwell said "Happiness can exist only in acceptance."

I'm going to test that now. Start living in my sitch instead of fighting or escaping it. Time now to take advice well given here.

It funny... my sitch is paralleling Denver_2010's a little. He struggled with anger and control, then set a 90 day countdown for himself to get control, then left that when events kept spiraling out of his control.

Events keep happening that I couldn't possibly predict. I can't imagine what could possibly happen next.

So now I'm down to day by day. Just slow down... focus of my circle of influence... shrink that circle if I can. Find one thing I can really be passionate about doing. Keep doing it. Share my passion and centeredness with my boy. Keep going.

I have to keep... start... DBing.

Today a very beautiful and special woman said she loves me. Said she always has. And she said we have no future.

There's no escaping this for me. I have a vision for my life on my own. I can do much more to get there. No more distractions.

Onward.
Posted By: LITB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/19/15 08:41 PM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
So now I'm down to day by day. Just slow down...


There you go. Slow down, focus on you HP. Slow is fast, and fast is slow.
Posted By: Andy125

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/19/15 09:43 PM

Hang in there... slow and steady... I struggle with the same things and know it can be immensely hard! But you can do it!
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 02:03 AM

Hello LITB and Andy. Right... Slow is fast and fast is slow. Just slowly working on myself, learning to be better me, and enjoying life.

I read your sitch LITB again from the beginning. Saw how detachment came for you for real a little more than a year in. I really looking at how my anger and treatment of my W are keeping me from detaching. Not letting her go on her path.

So she's still reaching out daily...

Today W did meet with my IC to talk about S12. She left a VM directly after her meeting saying how wonderful she felt my IC was... how comfortable she felt talking with her. She was crying a little while she spoke.

W went on to say she made additional appointments with her and S12. W also followed up with a text saying the same thing. She thanked me for sharing my IC with her.

We had not discussed her continuing to see my IC with S12. I said I would take S12 to the appointments. I'm sure it's a good thing, though, so I will be supportive of her helping S12 with my IC.

This week I have me stuff to do...

I have an IC appointment for me and S12 tomorrow. Goal is to be the best I can to support him through this.

I also just got "The Solo Partner" to read and learn how to be a better H.

I have an IC appointment for myself on Thursday to work on my anger and detaching from W.

Also planning a spring break trip for me and S12. Maybe Disney World or a kid friendly Caribbean resort.

Treated myself to watching some NBA games today.

Will go for a run tomorrow.

This morning was emotionally very hard. I'm better now. I don't want my life to get any more confusing and stressful than it already is.

Just keep going.
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 04:10 AM

HP you are on the right path. This post sounds so positive. The more you detach the happier you will feel. I Always find planning things ahead of me ( like a trip) gives me something to look forward to.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 02:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Karma12
HP you are on the right path. This post sounds so positive. The more you detach the happier you will feel. I Always find planning things ahead of me ( like a trip) gives me something to look forward to.


Hello Karma. Thank you for that... I'm determined to stay and do positive today. Just focusing on today.

I feel good and relaxed this morning. I switched to taking the AD last night and I slept very soundly. Hopefully that will stop the hard napping during the day.

I did have one problem. I'm going to be honest and write it here to be honest with myself so I don't fall further into denial.

I've wanted to talk with my OW from 5 years ago this morning. I have a very strong urge to. Just one button press on my phone and it's done.

I'm not going to. I just want to.

So yes I have to detach from her too.

Luckily... I'm learning Portuguese using the Duolingo program. It's really fantastic for occupying a wandering mind. I very highly recommend it.

Just keep going.
Posted By: Mach1

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 02:19 PM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
I did have one problem. I'm going to be honest and write it here to be honest with myself so I don't fall further into denial.

I've wanted to talk with my OW from 5 years ago this morning. I have a very strong urge to. Just one button press on my phone and it's done.


Temptation is like a knife, that may either cut the meat, or the throat of a man. It may be his food, or his poison, his exercise or his destruction.
John Owen


Remove the temptation, or concede to it...

Your choice....
Posted By: cat04

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 03:57 PM

Why do you still have her number?
Posted By: Sotto

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 04:31 PM

HP - I've been keeping up with your sitch. And thinking about Cat04's response too.

You know this isn't a good idea. You know how A's develop and that you're facing challenges right now, feeling pretty low, and here she is telling you she missed out last time round.

Is it best to just let her know that this isn't what you want and that you are hoping to save your M if you can. Then just delete her number and move forwards. Remember all the stuff we read about 'cold turkey' - it's the only way to go IMHO.

Because if that number is just sitting in your phone and can be pressed at any time, it may only be a matter of time before you do...
Posted By: zew

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 05:07 PM

HP, lose her number. Get it out of your phone.

1) You know very well that you are in no place to start an R right now,

2) Remember who this is - it's your OW. OW. What was the basis of that relationship again? Oh ya, OW. Today you are daydreaming about a daydream from 5 years ago. It's a mirage. It's not real. It's the sirens luring you to the rocks. Hard to port, man!

HP, you are through the worst of the detachment process, finally in a position to start making a good future for HP. Don't buy another problem for short money.
Posted By: LITB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 05:21 PM

HP,

I have to agree with the other posters. You are charting dangerous territory. I'll give you credit for being honest, and a 2x4 for keeping this close enough to make a difficult situation, more challenging. It tempting, and it clearly has your attention.

You and your OW are both very vulnerable right now. There is an attraction of having the attention from her, especially because your W isn't there to fill that void. Two wrongs don't make a right.

As has been suggested, lose her number. I'd also suggest changing your number and if you are friends on social media, block her.

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
I read your sitch LITB again from the beginning. Saw how detachment came for you for real a little more than a year in. I really looking at how my anger and treatment of my W are keeping me from detaching. Not letting her go on her path.


Detachment is no joke. It took confirming OM was in the picture, to finally let go completely. I learned a lot in that time. Nearly 14 months. It is crazy to look back at it now. Now I know what worked and didn't work in my sitch.

As painful as it was, I am grateful for being able to grow. I certainly wouldn't be who I am today if it didn't happen.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 07:06 PM

Thank you for the straightening out. I have deleted her number.
Posted By: Dawn70

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 07:30 PM

Good for you! Deleting it is a good thing. smile
Posted By: zew

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 07:47 PM

Good man. Clear skies ahead.
Posted By: HeavyD

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 08:10 PM

You have grown so much HP. You are an inspiration to many on this board!
Posted By: TSquared2

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 09:29 PM

Quote:
I have deleted her number.


Good job, now be sure it's deleted from your contacts backup as well... wink
Posted By: Vapo

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 09:52 PM

Good catch T2! smile
Posted By: Andy125

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/20/15 10:16 PM

HP,

I feel I'm not one to comment to much on anyone's sitch only because I'm still doing the hard navigating of my own... I can however relate very much to that temptation. I went through the same thoughts as things were unraveling for me. Your a good man for not doing it and just deleting the number... it can be so tempting, but won't really get you where you need to be... keep up the hard fight you are doing great!
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 03:03 AM

Hello Dawn, zew, Jan, TSquared2, Vapo, and Andy. So yes I did delete my OWs number. I will leave her alone like she asked. She knows and respects that I'm trying to save my M.

Even so... today I learned again trying to save my M is not what I'm supposed to be doing.

Took S12 to my IC today. On the way, W texted to ask if I was still taking S12 to the IC like I said I would when I told her about my IC. I just replied "Yes."

At the start of the session, she texted to ask if I would call after the session. Also if she could take S12 to dinner. I did not answer.

S12 was nervous but did well. He held back a lot. He made it clear what he wanted what all kids in these sitches want. It was sad. The IC talked about how it would be a slow process to get used to a new reality but he would be OK.

I talked with my IC alone at the end.

I told her about S12's waking up in the middle of the night disoriented. He sleepwalks a little when he's stressed and then doesn't remember. I told her about his "I'm useless" and "I'm done living" and "Without my family I'm nothing" talk. About his mom screaming at him. About him saying he's stressed and depressed. About him being extra helpful around the condo to take care of me. About my saying "you will be alright" instead of "we will be alright."

She says it's a process. He has to slowly get used to the truth.

I tell her about recent events... my W screaming at S12... his sadness after basketball games... my being cordial to W.

IC mentions she met with W about S12 and that she made further appointments. I say I did not expect W to make further appointments with my IC and S12. IC gives me the option to cancel W's upcoming appointments as a conflict of interest. I decline.

IC suggests I get together with W and S12 for co-parenting counseling after W's upcoming sessions with S12. I say I'll consider it but I don't want to anytime soon.

IC also suggests that, if S12 is angry at his mom and wants to scream and curse her and hang up the phone on her... that I let him do it. That is how I validate his feelings. That he's not wrong to let it all out.

She asks how I am. I am much better... ADs are working. I'm even cheerful sometimes. This is excellent.

I then tell IC about my hour long conversation yesterday with my OW. How she said 5 years ago during our A she intended to leave her H but couldn't b/c she couldn't move back to the USA with her kids. How now she has moved her family to the USA to make that reason go away. How she told me all her feelings for me and that she's not strong enough.

I told IC I removed OW's number from my phone. She asked why. I said, b/c I wanted to call her and she asked me not to. I said b/c I didn't want to destroy her family. I said b/c I wanted to save my M.

My IC then very firmly said... "HP, your M is over."

As many time as I've heard it here... it was another thing all together to hear her say it out loud.

She said... "It clear to me, from speaking to both of you, that this has been coming for many years. But... can you think of this as the best thing that has ever happened to you? "

She mentioned my OW... that she said what she said for a reason. That all this is happening for a reason. That it's clear I've never let OW go and so I was not present in my M. That if me and my OW both get D's that maybe that is the best thing that could happen for both of us. That I have to clean up the mess that is my M before I can be in any new R... with my W or my OW or anyone else. That, if my OW wants to talk... that I should let her. Just go slowly. That I have to really think about what I really want. If I really do have a genuine love for my W.

I have 2 appointments with my IC next week to detach from my W and M. IC says I'm not yet to acceptance... that I'm still grieving. The my W is still grieving. Doesn't matter. I have to get to acceptance. My M is over.

...

At the end of the session... W texts me... "I guess no dinner."

I reply... "S12 is tired. We have dinner."

"How did it go? I am so worried," she texts.

"S12 is fine." I reply.

Nothing else.

...

When I pulled up to the condo, I looked at S12. He was asleep. I just kept looking at him. He's a good boy. I wanted to text my W... "S12 is not fine. He deserves better that this." I know not to guilt my W. It causes her resentment and that causes her anger. I'm not trying to save my M anymore. It's just helpful to him when his mom is not angry.

Later... S12 was sad going to bed. I told him he would be OK.

He's having trouble going to sleep. I expect him to do his sleepwalking tonight. I'll help him back to bed like I do. I will not tell XW about it. I'll take care of my boy by myself.

I'm a single divorced dad putting his life back together.

Puts a smile on my sad face to say that.

Posted By: SunnyB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 03:19 AM

HP, about the OW.....just no. Not now. You don't want any part of breaking up her M amd yours needs to be resolved first anyway. If it's supposed to work out later it will. Not now. Maybe tomorrow I'll tell you a story. Right now I've had a rough day and I'm tired.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 03:40 AM

Hello rppfl. Yes you're right about my OW. I was surprised IC said what she said. I'm sure IC meant if OW is getting D anyway. IC did say I must not get involved with OW unless we are both D. What my W did to leave our M is clearly wrong and makes everything harder on all of us especially for S12.

OW asked to stop talking. I'll get stronger on my own and let go of my M and my W on my own.

Better for all of us.
Posted By: MCS

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 03:55 AM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot


My IC then very firmly said... "HP, your M is over."



HP,

So, guess what....my MC said the exact same thing to me today......I had the same reaction, it actually helps.

Like I said, I think this is part of the grief process that they are working us through; getting through that winding road to acceptance.

I don't intend to explain it away, as we all talk about our M being dead right now, but I see it as the MC/IC is looking at things as objectively as possible given the circumstances. They are responsible to get us 'through' loss and not to hold onto it. Here's what comforts me when its something as ultimate as saying this to me.

Our faith that we are going to be okay is all we need right now.

It could be with W, OW or someone else, it doesn't matter right now. Its a day by day thing.

Both MC and IC have banged me on the head multiple times and say "MCS, why are you so concerned with the future, when you need to be focused on today? You can try, but you can't control the future, but have faith that whatever is meant to be will happen regardless of what you do or don't do today."

Its them trying to help me release control, detach and not beat myself up or analyze every little piece of the sitch.
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 05:55 AM

Hi Hp,

Stay away from the OW. It will only bring you more Pain in the long run. You are hurting and looking for a band aid. You are vulnerable. This pain is normal and will get better with time. As the person in a MLC has to walk their path so does the LBS.

I had an old BF look me up on FB. His wife had cheated on him and he was looking back and reflecting on past relationships. I gave him some advice but drew the line when he was moving towards romantic overtures. He was looking for something/ someone to make him feel better. This would not have been good for either of us.

Sometimes the past needs to remain in the past. We live, learn experience and move on. Each relationship we have teaches us something about ourselves. Give your self time to heal. I always have said a relationship is like the icing on the cake. Cake is great all on its own and the icing adds to it. Be happy on your own and you will in time attract a healthy woman into your life. Take your time...it's worth the wait.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 04:35 PM

Hello Karma. You are right of course. Any relationship now with my OW would not be real. We both deserve better and I need to heal.

My OW and I did have one last conversation today. Her husband saw her on FB last night. It triggered a long R talk. She told him about my M problem and that we had been talking. He knows about our relationship 25 years ago. He did not like that she was talking to me.

She said this morning she did not know and had to make a decision. She chose to fight for her M. Said there are no guarantees but she has her reasons to try. That, now that she knows I am letting go of my M, that it is too dangerous for us to talk.

I'm glad for her. I wished her and her H well. She is a wonderful person who tries to fix her mistakes. I hope I can find someone like that when I'm ready.

Thank you again for your kindness Karma.

Onward. .
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 06:34 PM

I was starting to feel this has turned into a frustrating day. Snow is starting to fall here and my PMA started to fall with it. Nothing to do but keep going. So I rewrote the ugly vent I was going to post into this. I'm trying.
Posted By: Andy125

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 08:14 PM

HP I hear you, its absolutely tough! You are right, you are trying and that is all that matters.
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 08:59 PM

Some days will be easier than others. Go for a walk in the snow. It can be pretty
Posted By: LITB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 09:11 PM

Figured I'd post this video, since you are feeling a little frustrated today. One of my favorite clips. Perhaps you have seen it posted around these part.

Rocky's Inspirational speech to his son...

It aint about how hard you can hit. It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward.
Posted By: Vapo

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 09:15 PM

Hp, awaken the inner kid in you! I am not kidding. Go for a night stroll in the snow. Try to catch flakes with your tongue. Listen how the falling snow absorbs all the usual sounds. Perhaps you did not know this, but every flake is unique, no 2 are the same. And there is nothing like making a fresh trail in the deep fresh snow, so you can be the first somewhere where the snow can prove that no one has been there before you. Stay on the wagon, the hard stuff will not help you.

GAL dude, GAL. Go do stuff, go do stuff for you, vent here, we hear you our LBS brother. We know your pain. You are not alone.
Posted By: Vanilla

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/21/15 11:05 PM

HP

Proud of you for leaving OW as a memory.

IC said some dangerous things to you which seem to show W influence. If my notes are correct W felt that you were soul mates to OW? But in some way this seems to be IC view as well. Perhaps the conflict of interest is a truth?

S12, that lovely young thing, slightly lost as expected. HP you are the stabiliser for this special child who absolutely trusts you. It will resolve, keep on loving and giving and I am sure it will resolve.
Quiet
Vanilla
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 01:56 AM

Hello Andy, Karma, LITB, Vapo, and Vanilla. Me and S12 did end up going outside into the snow to get batteries for one of his toys (they turned out to be dead but so what). He was in a sad and agitated way after getting frustrated with his guitar practice. I was getting frustrated too so the ride really helped us both. He cheered up to his happy self soon. I'm getting there. We're watching an Indiana Jones movie so it's all good now. But he's still sad... still wanting this to be fixed. It's not going to be fixed.

We've been in the condo a little over a month. I'm much better than I was when I first walked in here. Still a long way to go, but my mind is much calmer. No more shakes... no more out of control anger. I get a full nights sleep now. I don't feel overwhelming sadness. I made a slow cooker steak and gravy and mashed potatoes for dinner. I can be much more productive... but I think by next week I'll be at 85%. On my way up.

No I'm not on my GAL plan. IC mentioned that yesterday. The Crossfit was fine and I need it... but I'm not interested. I'm not sure what I'd be really, passionately, obsessively interested to do in this city right now. I want to find that thing.

That's always been my problem here in winter. I want a sunny, warm beach and seawater. I love to go for long swims in the evening. Swimming in the rain is even better. I could do that everyday. If I had that GAL would be easy.

Hello Vanilla. Thank you again for your wonderful words. I've known my OW since we were 10 years old. If we weren't young and afraid, we probably would've been married young and then made all the same mistakes with each other that we've made in our Ms. That's what she said yesterday. That... and we're from the same skin. I've left her as a memory 4 times so far in my life.

So, when my IC said what she said about my OW, I'm sure it was b/c she simply heard what I said.

I don't know what happens next.

I feel like I have everything and nothing.
Posted By: SunnyB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 02:17 AM

HP, your OW still concerns me. I understand the R you have with OW, I really do. Believe that I get it. And you very well may end up together someday. And when you do, you don't want it marred with the way it happened. You don't want to be wrapped in her arms thinking, she left her last H, will she leave me? She cheated on him, is she really working late? You want it to be right. Be patient and stay away from her. If it's meant to be a few years won't matter.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 03:12 AM

Hello rppfl. You're absolutely right. If I do have another real R... I want it to be right as you say. I would not want to put any man or child through the pain I've gone through. I would not want an R based on that pain.

My OW decided to fight for her M and not do the easy thing. That would be the kind of woman I want.

In any case... I'm no good to any woman who wants a real R yet. As much as I very much want companionship right now as I go to bed... it wouldn't be real and I will be better than that.
Posted By: SunnyB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 03:23 AM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
Hello rppfl. You're absolutely right. If I do have another real R... I want it to be right as you say. I would not want to put any man or child through the pain I've gone through. I would not want an R based on that pain..


Glad to hear that HP. smile hang in there.
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 07:47 AM

I love the Sun and the sand too. I'm definitely a summer lover! Lol

I do though go up to the mountains and snow shoe or ski. It's bright and pretty with the snow. Here on the west coast we have mild winters bit it is grey and rainy. Summer here is awesome! Lol

Each day will bring new challenges. You are getting used to your new sense of normal. Read my thread. My H. And his MLC is hurting his only daughter. I feel helpless because I don't have any real rights. Other than I insisted that she have visitation rights with me in our seperation agreement.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 05:56 PM

The board has several favorite people. Those who most people really like and have a growing respect for them. These are the ones we just feel kind of special towards, and really want to see them succeed (which means different things to different people).

HP, you definitely fall into this category, IMHO. Your thread has stayed very active since the beginning, and I think it draws us b/c we sincerely want to help in any way we can....and you seem to really be trying to follow the advice given. We see you struggle; see you hurt; see you regroup and discipline yourself to strive harder; see your love for your son outweigh other emotions; see you take a lot of 2x4's :); and see you take it like a gentleman. I don't recall you making many excuses. You don't respond in anger to anyone's post, which I see as quite a strength for someone who says they are coping with a great deal of anger in their stitch.

I just wanted to say that all of this is impressive. I think you are doing a terrific job, even if you can't see it. Doing the right thing is not always easy.

When life is over and they bury you in the ground, they will place a headstone that will have your name, date of birth and date of death. In between the dates is one little mark.....a dash. Have you ever noticed? It is what is in that dash that really tells the story about your life. How you lived your days between those two dates. I believe you want and are trying to live it with integrity, HP. Accepting what you cannot change, and making the most of what you can.....and of what you have right now. Living with honor, and being the role model for not only your child, but for many who may be here....watching and learning.

I believe you are going to be fine, b/c you are willing to do what is right.

As another favorite person from the past would have said, "Cheers".
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: zew
HP, lose her number. Get it out of your phone.

1) You know very well that you are in no place to start an R right now,

2) Remember who this is - it's your OW. OW. What was the basis of that relationship again? Oh ya, OW. Today you are daydreaming about a daydream from 5 years ago. It's a mirage. It's not real. It's the sirens luring you to the rocks. Hard to port, man!

HP, you are through the worst of the detachment process, finally in a position to start making a good future for HP. Don't buy another problem for short money.




Such good advice.

I'm still at a loss as to how this^^ can make any sense to you, WHILE being so angry at your w for the same thing.

(Yes, I see it as the same thing. I do not distinguish your early affair from her present one. Sorry, but your OW ended the A, not you. If I'd been your w, and knew that, it would always linger in my memory until if and when I did my own form of DBing...

which you could demonstrate to her)

anyhow, back to You and your GAL...
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
- He was in a sad and agitated way after getting frustrated with his guitar practice. I was getting frustrated too so the ride really helped us both. He cheered up to his happy self soon. I'm getting there.

Moods can be contagious. Which type do you want your son to feel??

We're watching an Indiana Jones movie so it's all good now. But he's still sad... still wanting this to be fixed. It's not going to be fixed.


Let him feel as he feels. The only way past it is thru it. As long as he learns that the pain is NOT fatal OR eternal, he might be learning very valuable lessons.

But the part about not letting this go on too long (not eternal) and the part about how it's not fatal (b/c you do heal) may need to be taught and modeled by YOU, don't you think?


We've been in the condo a little over a month. I'm much better than I was when I first walked in here. Still a long way to go, but my mind is much calmer. No more shakes... no more out of control anger. I get a full nights sleep now. I don't feel overwhelming sadness.

^^^PROGRESS!!! Congrats!


I made a slow cooker steak and gravy and mashed potatoes for dinner. I can be much more productive... but I think by next week I'll be at 85%. On my way up.

No I'm not on my GAL plan. IC mentioned that yesterday. The Crossfit was fine and I need it... but I'm not interested.



Instead of waiting for your emotions to cause behavior/action in you,

try behaving/acting first, and creating the emotions.


That's the essence of those TED TALKS of Amy Cuddy and Shawn Achor. I highly recommend watching them. The "fake it til you become it" and "The Power of Positivity" are not just wishful thinking. There's strong empirical data supporting their hypothesis.

You have more control over how you FEEL, than you realize.



I'm not sure what I'd be really, passionately, obsessively interested to do in this city right now. I want to find that thing.


You can't "Find" it by waiting for it.

Go exploring, studying, volunteering, creating...and you may thereby "find" it or create it.


That's always been my problem here in winter. I want a sunny, warm beach and seawater.


I'll have to post my GAL list to you soon. I did the things in it, in Alaska's interior...mostly in the winter.

The colder darker the place, the MORE you must GAL. Not the other way around.


I love to go for long swims in the evening. Swimming in the rain is even better. I could do that everyday. If I had that GAL would be easy.


I could be wrong but imo, GAL means by definition, pushing the envelope and expanding your comfort zones by going out of them. IF GAL were easy, imo, it's Not really GAL.

Doing NEW things with NEW people, is key to GAL. There is always the fear and inertia to prevent it....

-

I don't know what happens next.

I feel like I have everything and nothing.



Just so you know, none of us know what happens next. Welcome to humanity.

HP, you want to be a good man and I think you are on your way to becoming that guy. Stay the course. IT's why there is so much support for you.

You want to rise above the venial urges many feel...and that's admirable.

But please please consider the advice you are getting AND FOLLOW IT more.

We say these things b/c we know they helped us and most of us have been where you are, in some form.

((( )))
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 07:41 PM



HP,

Remember that you cannot heal, without detaching and you cannot detach, without GAL.

For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter.

And I had 3 kids including a baby (so you know I don't want to hear about how you are 'too busy' to GAL).

Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w.

I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.

I coached a girl's softball team for two summers (my older D was on it).

I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).

I auditioned for community theater and met some very fun creative people. I got cast, too.

I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well.

I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.

I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.

I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding it & getting outside at least part of every day.

Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license.

Went skydiving. Loved it so much I did it again. And plan on doing it again, soon!

Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)

I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. Found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.

Plus I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, (let alone in the dark, deathly cold of their long LONG winters.)

Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.

Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I actually liked it a lot).

Joined the Officer's Wives club (after 15 years of active duty & ignoring them).
Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are life long friends to this day.

Joined a writer's group

Took a class in Conversational French (Portuguese for you?)

Took a class in Italian cooking

There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot.

Other than pilot training, & skydiving, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 07:42 PM

PS

Have you contacted the EE people about February and that workshop?

I hope you do, b/c you will get A LOT out of it. You're so ripe for the changes and transitions you want to make.

(( ))
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 10:33 PM

More great advice there in the above threads for you HP. Thanks for dropping by my thread.
Posted By: LITB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/22/15 11:04 PM

Originally Posted By: sandi2
You don't respond in anger to anyone's post, which I see as quite a strength for someone who says they are coping with a great deal of anger in their stitch.


HP...I agree wholeheartedly with sandi's entire post. Wanted to add to this part. You are grateful to those that post to you, and demonstrate humility. When you are appreciative of people trying to help you, they want to see you succeed and offer you their support.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 01:10 AM

Originally Posted By: sandi2
The board has several favorite people. Those who most people really like and have a growing respect for them. These are the ones we just feel kind of special towards, and really want to see them succeed (which means different things to different people).

HP, you definitely fall into this category, IMHO. Your thread has stayed very active since the beginning, and I think it draws us b/c we sincerely want to help in any way we can....and you seem to really be trying to follow the advice given. We see you struggle; see you hurt; see you regroup and discipline yourself to strive harder; see your love for your son outweigh other emotions; see you take a lot of 2x4's :); and see you take it like a gentleman. I don't recall you making many excuses. You don't respond in anger to anyone's post, which I see as quite a strength for someone who says they are coping with a great deal of anger in their stitch.

I just wanted to say that all of this is impressive. I think you are doing a terrific job, even if you can't see it. Doing the right thing is not always easy.

When life is over and they bury you in the ground, they will place a headstone that will have your name, date of birth and date of death. In between the dates is one little mark.....a dash. Have you ever noticed? It is what is in that dash that really tells the story about your life. How you lived your days between those two dates. I believe you want and are trying to live it with integrity, HP. Accepting what you cannot change, and making the most of what you can.....and of what you have right now. Living with honor, and being the role model for not only your child, but for many who may be here....watching and learning.

I believe you are going to be fine, b/c you are willing to do what is right.

As another favorite person from the past would have said, "Cheers".


Hello Sandi. I'm am extremely humbled by your words. I cannot thank you enough for your kindness and for your supporting and seeing my efforts the way you do. You are right that I don't see myself doing well sometimes. That you think I've made progress gives me strength... real strength... to keep on working to live with integrity. You and all vets here are angels to me and all of us here working to become better people. For everybody I thank you for your being here everyday. For the real life changing support you give here. Count on me to do my best to follow your and all advice. I do want to live.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: zew
HP, lose her number. Get it out of your phone.

1) You know very well that you are in no place to start an R right now,

2) Remember who this is - it's your OW. OW. What was the basis of that relationship again? Oh ya, OW. Today you are daydreaming about a daydream from 5 years ago. It's a mirage. It's not real. It's the sirens luring you to the rocks. Hard to port, man!

HP, you are through the worst of the detachment process, finally in a position to start making a good future for HP. Don't buy another problem for short money.




Such good advice.

I'm still at a loss as to how this^^ can make any sense to you, WHILE being so angry at your w for the same thing.

(Yes, I see it as the same thing. I do not distinguish your early affair from her present one. Sorry, but your OW ended the A, not you. If I'd been your w, and knew that, it would always linger in my memory until if and when I did my own form of DBing...

which you could demonstrate to her)

anyhow, back to You and your GAL...


Yes thank you 25. I did have my A with my OW 5 years ago. For whatever reason it ended... my feelings for her were poisonous to my M and played a large part of why I'm here today. I can demonstrate empathy and an understanding of how I damaged my M to my W.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 01:49 AM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: HPoirot
- He was in a sad and agitated way after getting frustrated with his guitar practice. I was getting frustrated too so the ride really helped us both. He cheered up to his happy self soon. I'm getting there.

Moods can be contagious. Which type do you want your son to feel??

We're watching an Indiana Jones movie so it's all good now. But he's still sad... still wanting this to be fixed. It's not going to be fixed.


Let him feel as he feels. The only way past it is thru it. As long as he learns that the pain is NOT fatal OR eternal, he might be learning very valuable lessons.

But the part about not letting this go on too long (not eternal) and the part about how it's not fatal (b/c you do heal) may need to be taught and modeled by YOU, don't you think?


We've been in the condo a little over a month. I'm much better than I was when I first walked in here. Still a long way to go, but my mind is much calmer. No more shakes... no more out of control anger. I get a full nights sleep now. I don't feel overwhelming sadness.

^^^PROGRESS!!! Congrats!


I made a slow cooker steak and gravy and mashed potatoes for dinner. I can be much more productive... but I think by next week I'll be at 85%. On my way up.

No I'm not on my GAL plan. IC mentioned that yesterday. The Crossfit was fine and I need it... but I'm not interested.



Instead of waiting for your emotions to cause behavior/action in you,

try behaving/acting first, and creating the emotions.


That's the essence of those TED TALKS of Amy Cuddy and Shawn Achor. I highly recommend watching them. The "fake it til you become it" and "The Power of Positivity" are not just wishful thinking. There's strong empirical data supporting their hypothesis.

You have more control over how you FEEL, than you realize.



I'm not sure what I'd be really, passionately, obsessively interested to do in this city right now. I want to find that thing.


You can't "Find" it by waiting for it.

Go exploring, studying, volunteering, creating...and you may thereby "find" it or create it.


That's always been my problem here in winter. I want a sunny, warm beach and seawater.


I'll have to post my GAL list to you soon. I did the things in it, in Alaska's interior...mostly in the winter.

The colder darker the place, the MORE you must GAL. Not the other way around.


I love to go for long swims in the evening. Swimming in the rain is even better. I could do that everyday. If I had that GAL would be easy.


I could be wrong but imo, GAL means by definition, pushing the envelope and expanding your comfort zones by going out of them. IF GAL were easy, imo, it's Not really GAL.

Doing NEW things with NEW people, is key to GAL. There is always the fear and inertia to prevent it....

-

I don't know what happens next.

I feel like I have everything and nothing.



Just so you know, none of us know what happens next. Welcome to humanity.

HP, you want to be a good man and I think you are on your way to becoming that guy. Stay the course. IT's why there is so much support for you.

You want to rise above the venial urges many feel...and that's admirable.

But please please consider the advice you are getting AND FOLLOW IT more.

We say these things b/c we know they helped us and most of us have been where you are, in some form.

((( )))


Thank you 25. I take your advice and that from the TED videos more and more. I am showing my boy more of my content and moving forward side. We are certainly laughing more around here. Thank you again for the videos... they do help.

Inspired by Pink... I have found a capoeira class. They also do samba classes. Anything Brazil is interesting to me. Chance to meet people I might like too. I will check it out and would certainly be stretching myself.

I know the GAL advice I need to follow much more. I am getting past my low level of general excitement and will get there.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 02:14 AM

Originally Posted By: LITB
Originally Posted By: sandi2
You don't respond in anger to anyone's post, which I see as quite a strength for someone who says they are coping with a great deal of anger in their stitch.


HP...I agree wholeheartedly with sandi's entire post. Wanted to add to this part. You are grateful to those that post to you, and demonstrate humility. When you are appreciative of people trying to help you, they want to see you succeed and offer you their support.


Hello and thank you LITB. You as you say I feel immensely grateful for the advice here. The words from you and everyone here have helped me turn this from a nightmare into a life adventure. Especially your story LITB. I have read it twice and will read it again for inspiration. I have only been separated from my W for a month. Funny how already this adventure has seemed very long. Now I'm just looking to settle in to getting myself together. I'm still not feeling like I'm leaving the door open for R with my W. But I'm feeling after another month of being dim, getting better at being cordial and friendly, then maybe I can give a small amount of focus to interactions with my W.

I believe, in your sitch, you did not have much freindly contact with your W for a while after she moved? That gives me the idea that my W's anger might fade after a few more weeks. For now, she always apologizes for calling on her VMs and even is a little transparent about where she's going.

Even so, actively thinking of things other than W. Thank you again LITB.
Posted By: sofaraway

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: zew
HP, lose her number. Get it out of your phone.

1) You know very well that you are in no place to start an R right now,

2) Remember who this is - it's your OW. OW. What was the basis of that relationship again? Oh ya, OW. Today you are daydreaming about a daydream from 5 years ago. It's a mirage. It's not real. It's the sirens luring you to the rocks. Hard to port, man!

HP, you are through the worst of the detachment process, finally in a position to start making a good future for HP. Don't buy another problem for short money.




Such good advice.

I'm still at a loss as to how this^^ can make any sense to you, WHILE being so angry at your w for the same thing.

(Yes, I see it as the same thing. I do not distinguish your early affair from her present one. Sorry, but your OW ended the A, not you. If I'd been your w, and knew that, it would always linger in my memory until if and when I did my own form of DBing...

which you could demonstrate to her)

anyhow, back to You and your GAL...


Yes thank you 25. I did have my A with my OW 5 years ago. For whatever reason it ended... my feelings for her were poisonous to my M and played a large part of why I'm here today. I can demonstrate empathy and an understanding of how I damaged my M to my W.



Hey HP,
25 has always much more poignant than I am and has a much sweeter disposition!


So with that said, here is what I do not get. You agreed that you should not talk to OW and then you go and talk to OW??? Why? What good could possibly come of that?

So the reason I suggested that movie was to teach you about how you should be thinking and about making decisions that are above reproach and within the framework of your objective. Currently, and correct me if I am wrong on this, that objective is to better yourself and hopefully restore your marriage within that change. So the questions we have to ask ourselves are simple, is the action I take something I would be ok with on the front page of tomorrow's newspaper or is it something that would;
a. Hurt someone!
b. Embarrass you?
c. Not represent you in the way you wish to be viewed

So tell me this dude, would you be ok with putting it on the front page of the paper that you have been communicating with your ex affair while trying to reconcile your marriage?

Ian
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 02:49 PM

Hello Ian. No it would not be a good headline that I was talking with my ex affair partner at this time. Whatever I thought about just talking about my problems with her... it quickly became something else. I don't want anyone else to hurt more. I want to do the right thing. I want to be happy.

Even so, I don't want to try to reconcile my M now. I want to really let go of it. If there's a chance later... maybe ok then. So I don't want to burn the bridge. I recognize from my anger I may already have.

There's something better for me to do and be right now. I want to find it and find some real joy for myself and my son.

XW calls and leaves VMs. I answer by text when I can. I work to not think of her.

My son calls his mom when he wants. Last night I heard him again asking her to fix her problem and come back to us. Telling her how his life is ruined and he's having trouble in school. I do not get into their relationship and do not ask him what was said between them. I do show happiness for the both of us. I help him with his homework. I tell him he will be OK.

Today I have an IC appointment to work on my detachment. I not doing the co-parenting IC with W for now.

Tonight I have S12's basketball game.

She had changed the schedule again so I have him weeknights and she weekends. This weekend, the first of the new schedule, S12 was supposed to stay with his mom. He complained to his mom. She asked me to keep him here overnight and she would take him during the day. I said OK. I'm happy for all this time with my son.

Ok I'm trying not to say it but I will... I'm sick of this again. I want to detach.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 03:47 PM

Funny thing... Yesterday I ran out of sleeping pills. I've never needed them before now... And I'm feeling so much better... Even happy... With the ADs... So I figured I'm done with sleeping pills.

Ended up awake this morning at 2:30. Laid there for an hour... Mind wandering. It wasn't as bad as before. Not really bad at all. Thought about some regrets... Things I could have easily changed. Thought about the future. Kept it hopeful.

This morning I'm sleepy. Just woke up from a hard nap.

Clearly I need GAL to look forward to. I just have to do it.
Posted By: Vapo

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 04:58 PM

Ditch regrets, that is your past. Learn from your past, but do not live in the past, so 86 the regrets!

Don't contemplate the future, as it away. Focus on here and now and today. Today is what matters. Do not live in the future OR the past. Live today for today and for yourself. You matter. You are the single most important person in your life and yet you treat yourself like dirt (not just you, all of us treat ourselves as dirt, until we learn better).

When you wake up in the morning be kind to yourself, gently stroke your head and say your thanks out loud, that you are thankful for waking up and say all the things you are thanking for. Then you ask for guidance for that day, what you want that in that day. Might sound silly, but do give it a go!
Posted By: LITB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/23/15 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
I have only been separated from my W for a month. Funny how already this adventure has seemed very long. Now I'm just looking to settle in to getting myself together. I'm still not feeling like I'm leaving the door open for R with my W. But I'm feeling after another month of being dim, getting better at being cordial and friendly, then maybe I can give a small amount of focus to interactions with my W.

The red, bold sentence that you posted, is the key. That needs to happen first. Once you get yourself to that place, you will no longer analyze your interactions with your W. You will no longer calculate what you say or do, while interacting with her. It will come naturally in to you, and it will be a huge relief.

It will allow you to interact with your W from a place with no expectations.

The beauty of DB'ing, is that you can practice it in other aspects of your life. I worked for a company that fostered an environment of people being unaccountable and throwing others under the bus, because the owner would light people up.

One time, he came to my desk to light me up for something that wasn't designed correctly. He expected an excuse from me. He asked me what happened, and I told him that I screwed up. It left him speechless. When he was walking off, he told me not to let it happen again.

It takes practice, before it comes to you naturally.

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
I believe, in your sitch, you did not have much friendly contact with your W for a while after she moved?

I think our contact was mainly about our kids. I know it got ugly when I retained my attorney. Looking back, I would have done things much differently, which I did the second time. I made mistakes, yet it wasn't the end of us. We learn as we go.

You have mentioned that you haven't been GAL. I know 25 suggests volunteering, and I am of the same mindset. I read a quote that has stuck with me. It went something like this, "While you are busy helping others, you forget about the challenges in your own life". I know that I butchered it, but you get the gist of it.

GAL is important for a number of reasons:
-It helps you detach.
-It redirects your focus.
-Other opportunities might present themselves.
-It makes you feel good that you are making a difference.

Volunteering is one of the ways of GAL.

I posted this as my status yesterday:
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. ~Albert Pike~
The difference between success and significance.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/24/15 03:25 AM

Hello LITB. Yes thank you... and I think getting myself together is happening!

Yesterday I went to the doctor for a follow-up on ADs. I had just read Sandi's very encouraging and humbling post so was feeling many emotions. Then updating my doctor on my sitch had me a little shaky. He cleared me to double my dose to 20mg of the ADs. It's crazy right now... it seems like it takes effort have a down thought.

This AD is a wonderful drug.

I don't even feel that urge to write my usual long story.

Today I went to the IC. I was smiling... even laughing a little... while telling my sad stories.

This AD is a wonderful drug.

We talked about my parents... what my dad went through. How he only told me recently about my mom and how he told me I'd need to get stronger. How his story made the puzzle pieces in my young life come together. How I'm close with my dad now.

IC asked me about my OW. I told her about our falling in love 25 years ago and how that ended painfully. How I found her again 5 years ago and our A. How she told me she would fight for her M and we chose to stop talking.

I'm not sure why she had me talk about these things. I really want to move ahead... from this day forward. She does stress I have to get my life together right now. That's all that matters. I trust she knows what she's doing. I go back twice next week.

Did not see XW until the end of S12s basketball game. Did not look for her. She was sitting behind me and I hadn't noticed. I thought maybe she wasn't there.

S12 had a great game and was happy at the end. I walked over to him and we talked about his success. After a while XW came over, turned to me and said she'd come get our son tomorrow depending on the weather. I briefly nodded, turned said "See you guys later" to the team, and left with my son without another thought.

This AD is a wonderful drug.

Had a nice evening with S12. On the way home... I stopped to pick up some rum. S12 said it's not good for me. He said... since I'm the one taking care of him... staying with him... that I needed to take care of myself. Stop eating M&Ms and get some exercise. He said he can't count on his mom. He was serious. I didn't get the rum. I see he is watching me and me showing him I'm taking care of myself takes pressure off him. Lesson learned.

I feel much better... like I really want to do something. I have a few thousand dollars in my personal account. I felt like going out tonight.

That's all I feel to write.

This AD is a wonderful drug.
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/24/15 08:20 AM

Keep moving forward HP. One small step at a time. Plan something each week that you can look forward to. No matter what the future holds believe you will be ok and you will be.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/24/15 02:55 PM

Hello Karma. Thank you and yes I'm at the point now where I'm ready to find things to look forward to. It was expectations with me again... I wanted to just get into something and be immediately interested and transported to a better place mentally. But this morning I'm feeling so good I ready to really give GAL a try.

More schedule changes. XW changed the schedule so she gets S12 only on weekends until she gets her own place next month. Today she was supposed to pick S12 up for the day at 10am. She texted me this morning to say she would get him at noon instead. So she's consistent about being inconsistent.

I mentioned to S12 last night that we could go sledding if it snowed enough. Overnight we did get snow. So, this morning he texted his mom that he wanted to stay with me today. She agreed.

I'm very happy to have S12 today. If I could, I would have him everyday.

Wondering, though, if this is good her being inconsistent with schedules. S12 doesn't want to stay at her aunt's and I wonder if she can even make her apartment happen in a month. If S12 doesn't want to stay at her aunt's, should I still insist she keep him the nights she said she would?

Anyway... I'm going to go sledding with my boy. Then maybe bowling.

I hope you enjoy your day too.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/24/15 04:19 PM

Your son seems to be very wise. He knows you are the stable factor in his life and it must concern him when he sees you take less than a healthy choice. He may even have thoughts if something happened to make you sick where you couldn't take care of him, then what?

Under other circumstances I might give a different POV, but since you wish you had S12 more, and since conditions at the aunt's are not the best, I would say to be flexible and let him stay with you. I think it would take a little stress from him. He may feel victimized when he's force to stay there. I doubt it is going to make her get her act together any faster by pressing it. In most cases I do not have this opinion regarding scheduling, etc. However, for S12's sake, I say to go with the flow and see how that works. You can always make adjustments later.
Posted By: Vanilla

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/24/15 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Your son seems to be very wise. He knows you are the stable factor in his life and it must concern him when he sees you take less than a healthy choice. He may even have thoughts if something happened to make you sick where you couldn't take care of him, then what?

Under other circumstances I might give a different POV, but since you wish you had S12 more, and since conditions at the aunt's are not the best, I would say to be flexible and let him stay with you. I think it would take a little stress from him. He may feel victimized when he's force to stay there. I doubt it is going to make her get her act together any faster by pressing it. In most cases I do not have this opinion regarding scheduling, etc. However, for S12's sake, I say to go with the flow and see how that works. You can always make adjustments later.


Absolutely HP, 100% agree with Sandi.

It's temporary and s12 is happier this way. What a wonderful s12 you have who loves, trusts and has such insight.

V
Posted By: Ontheup

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/24/15 05:11 PM

HP

Your story is an inspiration. BD for me only a week ago so im still completly numb. Reading your posts though has made me feel a lot better and how much can be acheived if you just get out there and grab it. Grab life and make the most. Your relationship with your son is amazing. I have D8 and we have a brilliant relationship. Taking her ice skating tomorrow. She still doesnt know anything about my wife and I which is scary and makes me feel sick but the situation is what is I only have control over myself not others.
Interested to read about your OW. An ex GF of mine from 15years ago (pre my wife) contacted me a few months back. Now as tempting as it was to get involved with this woman and she made it clear she wanted to even though she is married i had to tell her that i wouldnt. It just didnt sit right. Your making the right decision to leave that OW alone. If its meant to be in the future then it will.

Keep posting.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/25/15 10:25 PM

Originally Posted By: LITB
Figured I'd post this video, since you are feeling a little frustrated today. One of my favorite clips. Perhaps you have seen it posted around these part.

Rocky's Inspirational speech to his son...

It aint about how hard you can hit. It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward.


Thank you for this reminder LITB. You're right... The Rock shows us the way to be. I'll be keeping your post in mind as I'm moving forward.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/25/15 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Your son seems to be very wise. He knows you are the stable factor in his life and it must concern him when he sees you take less than a healthy choice. He may even have thoughts if something happened to make you sick where you couldn't take care of him, then what?

Under other circumstances I might give a different POV, but since you wish you had S12 more, and since conditions at the aunt's are not the best, I would say to be flexible and let him stay with you. I think it would take a little stress from him. He may feel victimized when he's force to stay there. I doubt it is going to make her get her act together any faster by pressing it. In most cases I do not have this opinion regarding scheduling, etc. However, for S12's sake, I say to go with the flow and see how that works. You can always make adjustments later.


Hello Sandi, Vanilla, and SRD. Yes my son is really looking out for me. I do see how he wants to make things better. I make it a point to talk to him about relaxing and having fun as much as he can. That none of this is his fault, I am taking care of myself, and he will be OK.

Not much to say today. XW wanted to pick up S12 at 2pm today instead of keeping him all day like she promised. I insisted she get him at 10am. She did bring him back an hour early, though. Sent me a text to explain why and to thank me. Said the bad scheduling would last much longer as she will get her apartment next month.

This week I've been consistently dim and pulled way way back from her. All her daily calls on money and taxes I let go to VM. I answer immediately on S12 items by text. I'm feeling fine with this very minimal contact with her. I'm still considering being more warm and responding to her asking me to "please please" return her calls. Maybe in another month.

Today I was much lazier than I wanted to be. Very sleepy this afternoon and napped for a few hours. I didn't go for a run today and that was a mistake.

Otherwise, I feel good. Like I said before... I just have to get moving and GAL and get back to work.

If I have the funds and coverage for S12, I will attend the EE workshop. I'll decide that this week.

And I'm going to try to take a little break from posting here. No expectations... I'm just having faith that I'll have nothing critical to talk about this week.

So, here's to my life getting more interesting in a good way.

Onward.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/25/15 11:23 PM

Okay, we will miss you, so don't be gone too long. smile
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/26/15 05:33 PM

Hello Sandi. It is very kind of you to say I'll be missed. Thank you so much.

I'm back already, though, with a question.

Today we're having a bad snowstorm. S12 school got closed early. XW sent me a text asking if I would go get him. She shouldn't have to ask that as it is my day. In any case, I answer later "Hello XW. I'll get S12."

She replies later... "How are you?"

I don't answer for a while. I wasn't going to.

This time, with the storm, I said... "I'm fine. Are you OK with the storm?"

She replies later... "Yes. I am. I think of you. And I miss you too. I worry about you."

That I did not expect. I'm glad to be more detached than before so her text did not hurt or help me too much. I know at best she's being friendly.

I'm going to respond "I miss you too XW" as I think DB Coach Chuck would suggest.

No expectations.

Curious what you all think. Thank you all and take care.
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/26/15 08:44 PM

I heard there is a big snow storm heading to some of the Eastern States. Stay safe.

I would follow the advice of your coach. I've been told before to mirror behaviour. Your response would be appropriate given her text.
Posted By: Sotto

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/26/15 08:56 PM

Hi HP - just reading your sitch, and it struck me how different your posts have become in respect of your W. At one time, there was a real feeling of barely suppressed anger in everything you wrote to do with your W.

It's so different now.....good for you!

Toots :-)
Posted By: Vanilla

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/26/15 09:58 PM

Simple response:

Thank you W, your concern is very important to me and I am returning your warm thoughts and I am doing well.


You could add Karma style words "stay safe in the storms"

Lovely interaction HP.
V
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 12:34 AM

Hello Karma, Toots, and Vanilla. I did end up texting "I miss you too" to my XW. That's fine but I did allow a tiny bit of expectation. That's no good.

Later she called me about our taxes. She said she cried on the phone with the agent. She gets very anxious about our taxes. I used to take care of that for us without really telling her what was going on. That was wrong of me and another part of our issues. Now that we're here... she has to call on her own.

We talked about the taxes. But we both talked tenderly... wistfully I think the word is. At the end, she asked if there was anything else. I was tempted to talk about missing each other. Instead, I just said "No." We said bye.

Then, she called S12. He was in a down mood as he gets when his ADHD medicine fades. He complained to her about having a headache. She called me and I got a little irritated with her questioning me about why he has a headache. She started saying she knows I'm taking the "burden" of caring for S12. I cut her off as gently as I could. I said we're OK... is there anything else. She said "No but..." I said "OK talk to you later" as gently as I could. I basically hung up on her before she could say anything else.

Later... I texted her "How are you W?"

"I'm OK. And you? S12?" she replied.

We traded some texts. I asked if she was good for heat and power in the storm. She asked if we had food.

I texted... "I know you can take care of yourself. I shouldn't have asked."

"It was nice of you. I appreciate it," she replied.

I left it there.

So it was a strange day. This morning, before all that, I put my wedding ring back on. Just for me... I was feeling to have faith my M would work out for the best. Maybe too much Joel Osteen.

I see how even the smallest amount of expectation can mess with your head. Her saying she missed me did get to me. "I'm right here," I wanted to say. "You don't have to miss me. Just come home."

But what she meant and what I wanted her to mean are different and will be different.

I would like to ask her what she's doing now. Tell her our TV show is about to start new episodes. Let her know she's welcome in the condo if she has a problem in the storm.

I want to reach out to her.

She can say she's thinks of me and she misses me. I can't respond to any of that. I have to let all that go. Every time.

It means nothing. Just messes with my head.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 12:50 AM

Ugh... I'm still thinking about this. Kind of thoughtless for a WAW to tell a LBH "I think of you" and "I miss you." Even so... it's my deal to not make a big deal of it to her. It's my not making a big deal of anything to her that get's her to the place where she can say she misses me. So... back to being dim and pulling way way back in a loving way. Still wearing my wedding ring. Months and months of this. Just keep going.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 01:08 AM

You are still going from one extreme to the other. Just yesterday you were saying something about not responding to her.

Yes, temp checks messes with the LBH's head. When she said she misses you, my suggestion would have been, "What do you want me to say, W?" Or very calmly say, "How am I suppose to respond when you say something like that, W?" Or simply say, "Thank you" and leave it at that. After all, she was the one who wanted out of the M. So, hand it back to her. She is temperature checking you out. Now she has you texting back and forth again. So......she not only got her answer, but much more.

I know everyone doesn't agree with this, but that's okay. And if you want to lose ground again, that's fine. I am not suggesting you should be be rude (I never have), but find your equator instead of jumpIng from one pole to the other one.

Posted By: Train

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 01:18 AM

I know everyone doesn't agree with this

I, for one, agree completely.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 01:35 AM

Ugh again. Thank you Sandi and Train. Yes you're right and I see it very clearly from what you said. Last week I was at my equator with the not responding without being rude and she seemed to finally be getting it. I was successfully moving away from her. Then, after one "I miss you" text from her, I did lose ground on that and, worse, I felt it as I was doing it. I was even starting to wonder where she is and what she's doing tonight.

I didn't miss her the way she's been acting. Then, she gives me one crumb, and I'm telling her I miss her. Still manipulating me.

I'm worth much much much more than one "I miss you."

Thank you for the 2x4.

Back on track.
Posted By: PatientMan

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 01:53 AM

Let's set aside that, as sandi2 pointed out, you may be playing her game (part of the distance/pursuit dynamic ...also noteworthy is the 'Castle' analogy):

Quote:
This is the distance/ pursuit dynamic at work. If you pull back as it sounds like you have, then her reaction will be to pursue you (wants to eat together, sleeps in your bed). What you should do is not react. This is the "castle analogy" written by Tumbling that helps explain what is going on and how you should react:

Quote:

Imagine that the WAS is inside an impenetrable castle. WAS is deep inside the castle walls and has no desire to see the outside world. The drawbridge is up and there's a moat all the way around the exterior. WAS has his/her own world right there inside those cold, stone walls.

Then there's you. You're sitting on the other side of the moat. You've got a nice blanket laid out on the cool, green grass, and you're enjoying yourself by having a wonderful picnic all alone. You're absolutely content with this, and aren't even concerned with the castle and the WAS within (in fact, you've got your back to it).

Eventually, WAS gets a little curious about what's going on outside the castle, and decides to take a peek over the walls. WAS sees you, just sitting there enjoying yourself. He/She is surprised, because previously you had been throwing rocks at the castle, singing and dancing in hopes of getting their attention. WAS is wondering what you're up to, and why you're so content. After a while, WAS decides to lower the drawbridge and join you at your picnic. WAS sits down, and you just act as if -- you're happy, confident, etc. Suddenly, WAS realized where he/she is and what he/she is doing, and it scares the hell out him/her. WAS jumps up and dashes back to the castle for no apparent reason. You however, didn't even budge or flinch. WAS peeks back out to see what you're doing, and notices that you're still sitting in the same place, enjoying yourself without concern. Again, WAS is surprised, and eventually comes out again. This time WAS stays a little longer, but again gets spooked and runs back. However, you're still not deterred from enjoying your picnic. The WAS's visits begin to happen more and more, and they last longer and longer. Once he/she realizes that there is no risk for him/her (i.e. that you won't bring up the R, pursue her, get angry, become needy, etc), WAS begins to reflect on things, and begins questioning his/her choice to go to the castle. In time, WAS decides to bring up the R, and this is when you can discuss it with him/her because WAS is ready and has initiated the talk.



So you detach and GAL and leave her to sort her thoughts and join you if/ when she's ready.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2314623#Post2314623


So setting aside that you don't want to play that game, look how you are reacting to letting her back into your emotional world a little bit. It's emotionally dangerous, wouldn't you agree? Don't allow yourself to get too upset about it or beat yourself up over 'making a mistake', just learn that you aren't ready to handle her in that capacity yet.

(Metaphors and similes help me as I'm a visual person.) Think of 'detaching' as a pool and you don't know how to swim. You started to get in at the shallow end, but the water was too cold and you didn't like it. Now you seem to be used to the water temperature and are doing fine in the shallow end where your feet touch the bottom, so you got out of the pool, went over to the diving board, and dove right into the deep end. Only you found out you can't swim well enough yet and you are struggling!

Make sure you do your work in the shallow end before you even THINK about going into deeper water.

Be safe!

-PM
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 03:12 AM

Thank you PM. Yes like you said... I do see how I've been reacting. I was beating up myself a little over this mistake. I was moved off my center. I'm still feeling that now.

That, and she did get me on the phone too to answer her questions... she called S12 to tell him to tell me she was calling with something important so I would answer.

She even texted me again tonight asking if we can talk about her getting access to our storage unit. She asks to talk everyday and today she got me to. I'll text her in the morning.

So now just letting it go. I'm only a little over a month separated from her and I'm making some progress really moving away from her.

Back, then, to enjoying my own picnic.
Posted By: Train

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 03:26 AM

HP,

We all backslide. But you are so quick to see, yourself, how your own expectations cause your own suffering.

You're doing great. You're actually doing better than great.

Keep digging.
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 05:00 AM

Hp don't beat yourself up. You are doing really well and we all have days that are better than others. The important thing is to leave that day in the past and move forward to a new day.
Posted By: Vanilla

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 08:55 AM

HP

I am not so down about this, your coach said more warmth with W. W may be temp checking but we knew this. She needed to find HP warm in his interactions.

A little warmer perhaps than absolutely DB but achieved its goal so now back to core DB. Think of it as a deliberately over warm reaction on your part and achieved its goal to keep W interacting in a warmer way.

Sandi advice on the mark for the future, but goal achieved.

V
Posted By: Ontheup

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 12:52 PM

Hey HP

Another set of very inspiring and moving posts. Im no where near where your at but i can empathise with your reactions to your wife saying she misses you. Of course she will. You were together a long time. I have been fighting for 6 months to save my marriage (before i knew about OM futile) and would latch onto any bit of hope my wife would throw me. She wants best of both worlds. SHe Wanted to talk to me. would email and text me. She loves the family life ..........thats what i find hard to deal with now. If we get on so well then why the hell are you with someone else. Its like they miss that comforatble feeling they get from being with you but they just cant give up the drug of the affair/OM.
You handle your self with great dignity.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 02:44 PM

Hello Train, Karma, Vanilla, and SRD. Thank you for your views on my "backslide." The thing is... I really want to move on and I feel irritated I'm not along as much as I thought. Like PM suggested... I'm only good when I'm limiting the contact. When I allowed her in a little bit yesterday, I allowed myself to feel a little hopeful and then kind of crappy about it. Now I'm a little pissed off.

Today S12 has a snow day from school. First thing this morning, she texts to ask if she can pick up S12 midday for a few hours. S12 tells me she wants to take him to lunch. I wanted to go sledding with him. I don't have to though. Even so, I reply... "No thank you XW."

She replies... "Why not HP?" I don't reply.

She later texts that she didn't mind when he stayed with me to go sledding on her Saturday with him. Asks me to please say yes.

She later texts that she wants to take him to her friend's house so he can see her daughter's and please say yes.

I'm starting to feel that tired feeling of hating to hear from her again. So I'm letting my bad feelings about my having expectations yesterday send me back to the other extreme of ignoring her.

Starting to feel the "I don't want this" and "what does she want from me" feelings again.

"I miss you," was the worse possible thing she could say to me. Very cruel. Does she not realize this?

I don't feel as bad as I would have a few weeks ago. I'm taking this as a learning experience to not let her in emotionally at all.

Just keep going.
Posted By: Vanilla

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 02:46 PM

HP

what is best for S? Forget W!

V
Posted By: LITB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 03:42 PM

HP,

In the grand scheme of things, it isn't a big deal. You get to choose how you look at your W's text message. You can look at it as a backslide by letting her draw you in or you can choose to look at it as a progress report about where you are at.

Utilize it as a positive. It helps you see where you are at, and where you need to get to.

Step back, evaluate this particular interaction, while removing the emotions. You might be able to see that it really isn't a big deal.

Did you let her know that you had plans?
Posted By: Mozza

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 04:08 PM

I'll just restate what I said before: you guys need an agreed schedule with almost no changes.

I know she's the one who asks for the changes. I know you tried. But you need to try again. You need to do something that will settle this schedule. Involve a third party if need be.

Also, stop hesitating or agreeing to her schedule changes. You're training her to ask for them. She's rewarded for not following the schedule. I understand she's in a transition right now, but as soon as she settles, you need a permanent schedule (like week on/week off) that doesn't need to be agreed upon every few months.

These changes are not good for S12. He needs stability and predictability. He knows it's chaos between the two of you, he doesn't know what tomorrow will bring. He cannot project himself in the future. He doesn't know if his plans are going to change, whatever you promise him.

The fixed schedule will be good for her as well. She doesn't realize it now, but she'll be better able to plan her weeks and she won't have all this anxiety about asking for changes.

It's the same for you. You cannot make plans with confidence. You're constantly torn by her change requests. I've been there in the beginning and I feel much better now that it stopped. Now when WAW asks for a change (so far, only Christmas Holidays and summer vacations), I offer resistance if it's outside of the agreed schedule, at least so that she knows it's not granted. It reduces the requests.

That's just my two cents, but after several more weeks of drama around the schedule changes, I wanted to put it out there again.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 04:49 PM

Thank you LITB and Vanilla. I did do what's best for S12 Vanilla. Last night I said we would go sledding today and he was looking forward to it.

No LITB... I did not let her know I had plans. I just said no thank you and gave her no other explanation. I did not respond to her texts explaining why she wanted to pick him up today. I understand how that could be seen as rude.

I know I'm on my way to being detached from her. Accepting we no longer have an R despite how I feel about it. Accepting she will do whatever she wants with no regard for my feelings. So I'm working to leave my feelings on the shelf. I do see I have a ways to go.

Unfortunately, I'm feeling the loss of her a little today. Feeling a desire to reach out to her and know where she is. I'm not choosing the right thoughts right now so I'm writing here to admit my feelings and then let them go.

Fortunately, I have an IC appointment over the phone today. I'm going to ask that we really move forward on how she can help me detach.

B/c honestly I did backslide emotionally and I can't afford to. I feel down and distracted. I'll come back. Just typing that and sitting up straight and putting a smile on my face made me feel better. I just have to keep choosing to feel better.

Just keep going.
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 06:15 PM

Hi Hp,

The time to respond is when it is about you S. A simple I'm sorry we have made plans already would have been enough. I agree with Mozza you need a set sched in black and white.

I understand how you feel. I felt I backslided when my STBX was making attempts to get closer a couple months back. It is cruel. They just want to make sure we are still an option. It's all about them

I feel better also with less contact. Unfortunately with a child involved there will have to be some contact.

Go have fun with your S. A day outside may improve your PMA
Posted By: Starsky309

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Train
I know everyone doesn't agree with this

I, for one, agree completely.



Me three. cool


Starsky
Posted By: Starsky309

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Mozza
I'll just restate what I said before: you guys need an agreed schedule with almost no changes.

I know she's the one who asks for the changes. I know you tried. But you need to try again. You need to do something that will settle this schedule. Involve a third party if need be.

Also, stop hesitating or agreeing to her schedule changes. You're training her to ask for them. She's rewarded for not following the schedule. I understand she's in a transition right now, but as soon as she settles, you need a permanent schedule (like week on/week off) that doesn't need to be agreed upon every few months.

These changes are not good for S12. He needs stability and predictability. He knows it's chaos between the two of you, he doesn't know what tomorrow will bring. He cannot project himself in the future. He doesn't know if his plans are going to change, whatever you promise him.

The fixed schedule will be good for her as well. She doesn't realize it now, but she'll be better able to plan her weeks and she won't have all this anxiety about asking for changes.

It's the same for you. You cannot make plans with confidence. You're constantly torn by her change requests. I've been there in the beginning and I feel much better now that it stopped. Now when WAW asks for a change (so far, only Christmas Holidays and summer vacations), I offer resistance if it's outside of the agreed schedule, at least so that she knows it's not granted. It reduces the requests.

That's just my two cents, but after several more weeks of drama around the schedule changes, I wanted to put it out there again.


x 2 ^^^
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 07:08 PM

Quote:
Today S12 has a snow day from school. First thing this morning, she texts to ask if she can pick up S12 midday for a few hours. S12 tells me she wants to take him to lunch. I wanted to go sledding with him. I don't have to though. Even so, I reply... "No thank you XW."

She replies... "Why not HP?" I don't reply.

She later texts that she didn't mind when he stayed with me to go sledding on her Saturday with him. Asks me to please say yes.

She later texts that she wants to take him to her friend's house so he can see her daughter's and please say yes.


tired OMG!

Quote:
No LITB... I did not let her know I had plans. I just said no thank you and gave her no other explanation. I did not respond to her texts explaining why she wanted to pick him up today. I understand how that could be seen as rude.


See, this is what I am talking about being balanced. Last night you went too far with the back & forth texting. Today, you are on the verge of being rude.

I would want to pull my hair out, if I had to deal with her.....so I give you credit for keeping it together. And I may misunderstand what your DB Coach told you about showing more warmth, but IMHO, you can give the woman a warm answer, without getting into a back & forth text conversation that gets you out of balance again. You are seeing detaching as not responding at all, and I don't think that is the way when you have a child together. I believe it is possible to give a suitable answer that shows warmth without it making you look weak. Warm, yet firm in your decision that son is spending the day with you. Make sense?

"Sorry W, but S12 and I have already made plans for the day. Perhaps another time." And if she continues to blow up the phone with texts, then you can make the decision to ignore it or give her a call with further explanations. However, I personally believe in your particular stitch with this particular woman.....the more you try to give, the more she'll try to take with her style of manipulation. She seem to have calmed down just a little bit, and then she messed with your head, so it's started back. She may be a nuisance but she knows how to work you.

((HP)) You are going to get this, and you are going to be fine. Please do not see me giving you a 2x4, but see it as tweaking, and then you'll be almost darn perfect. laugh
Posted By: bdub

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 07:22 PM

I am not sure what your current arrangements are, or how much time you each get with s12 but STBXW and I have a 3 on 3 off, 4 on 4 off agreement. I get my boys Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Every other Saturday. STBXW gets them Every other Saturday, plus Sunday, Monday and Tuesday.
During the school year on Wednesday they ride the bus from her place to school and from school to my place. She picks them up at 9 am on Saturday, or on my long week she gets them at 12:30 on Sunday. No talks, no changes, no negotiations. S11 and S13 picked up on it in 2 weeks and they are really settled into the routine.
Posted By: Vanilla

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/27/15 10:40 PM

HP

How soon before W gets stability in her living accommodation?

That will be the time to put in place some good scheduling. I know S12 finds aunts very difficult. W has offered to go to visit a friends with S12 and this might be a better choice than an overnight stay at aunts. S12 is a very sensitive child so W living arrangements is important.

Am I correct in believing this is only a couple of weeks away?

V
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 12:06 AM

Hello Karma, Starsky, Sandi, bdub, and Vanilla. Yes XW says she'll have her apartment in a couple weeks. She says she'll be able to hold up her end of the schedule then. Yes we have a set shared on-line schedule that she makes and I agree to. Thing is... every time she makes a new schedule, she says she can't keep it due to her circumstances. There's nothing I can do about it except keep S12 here with me. I'm happy to have S12 everyday.

....

Interesting... it's hard to write this post. I want all this to stop.

I had my IC appointment over the phone just now. Talked about how I'm moving forward and detaching. Continuing to accept reality... my W does not want to be M to me.

The "I miss you" text came up and we talked about it most of the time. IC suggested I no longer allow her to lean on me for emotional support as she shows no sign of reconciliation.

So, next time, for my mental good, I must ask her, "What is your intention telling me you miss me?" or whatever she says to suck me back in. Then, whatever she says, I tell her something like "Your mixed signals don't help me. If you talk to me like that then I can't talk with you." Just set a boundary on her mixed signals.

She wanted away from our M. She's treated me terribly. She doesn't get anything else from me.

At the end of the call... I started to feel very very sad. Like I haven't for a while now. Reality setting in.

I talked about how I have no really close friends in this city. IC said that is my priority now. I get out and meet people. My assignment before our Friday appointment is to have some GAL activities on my calendar. I'll do that.

When I hung up the phone... I cried.

S12 came in the room. Is he always listening? He asked if I was OK. I reassured him I'm ok. No problem. He left and I went into the bathroom. I cried a little more. I couldn't help it.

IC said this is not a linear process. By tomorrow I'll be better. I deserve better. I have to get better.

Right now I'm just sad.

I'm tired of crying.

I just want all this to stop.

Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 12:10 AM

Crying is healthy HP. It's a release.

You got good advice from your IC. I'm going to use the same boundaries the next time my Stbx tries to suck me back in
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 12:32 AM

Hello Karma. Yes I know you're right. I'm just sick of the emotional up and down that I'm doing to myself. I was great for a few days in row and was looking forward to keeping that going this week.

Like LITB said... her "I miss you" text was good in that it showed me where I am and how much I have to go to get to detaching. I'm going to frame it as a good thing. I was fighting how much I let her words really affect me. So the cry was good... it's behind me now and I'm moving forward. Much better now. Thank you again.
Posted By: Starsky309

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 01:44 AM

HP, I'm sorry you're hurting. Not letting S12 see you cry was a good call -- good job.

I like your IC. THAT is how you lay a boundary!


Starsky
Posted By: Squiggy

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 02:04 AM

As you keep telling me in my thread, you'll be fine, HP. Keep putting those boundaries in place. You did an amazing job not showing your son the crying and reassuring him. Children are brilliant, and he knows what you were doing, but the strength you showed him will help him move forward.
Posted By: Vanilla

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 06:18 AM

In theory things may be easier when W has her own space. Certainly S12 may be happier than visiting aunts. Lovely though aunt may be although living in some one else's space will be limiting and restrictive.

If I were W then I believe it would make a difference to me with my own front door and place to be with S12. Even a broom cupboard would give breathing room.

You did well HP.

V
Posted By: Karma12

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 06:41 AM

Hp the set back helped you know you are not detached and also that your ex is very confused. Know that you obviously mean something to her. She is not healthy and therefore not safe to be emotionally vunerable to.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 01:00 PM

Thank you Starsky, Squiggy, Vanilla, and Karma. The talk with my IC yesterday was helpful and I'm grateful for it. The boundary for her mixed messages was great yes. I noted a little fear around it... like the time I stood up to XW when she offered the couples weekend.

Her saying she missed me was something I wanted. I wanted to reward her for saying she thinks of me and misses me with more contact. I hoped that would bring her closer to me. All that was wrong. Again she just wants me to cooperate.

She sent me a text yesterday. Now that she's close to getting her own place, she says she can't pay her part of S12's tuition like she agreed b/c her expenses are more than mine. She asks me about child support... "If you don't feel able to do this with me then do you want to use a lawyer?"

As usual, I'm not going to mention a lawyer. I'm just going to remind her she already agreed to this. Something like... "Hello XW. Understand your making your $xxx tuition payment as you agreed is difficult for you at this time. I know you will figure out a way. Thank you XW."

Lawyer told me, if she tries to get child support from me, the text and email evidence of her A could prevent that in this state. I don't want to pay for her blowing up our family. She makes money. She'll have to adjust her expenses.

I'm much better this morning. Working to not feel disappointed about this refocusing on my XW and not being as detached as I thought. There's nothing I can do now to bring her closer. Regarding her... I can only show strength right now.

So, even though I thought this would be a week of minimal contact, I'm back to standing up to XW. I'll remember to be loving.

Last Monday I put my wedding ring back on. I symbol of my faith things will work out between us. I do miss my XW and I want a new R with her. I don't see how that happens. Just trying to focus on faith.

Onward.
Posted By: SunnyB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
Lawyer told me, if she tries to get child support from me, the text and email evidence of her A could prevent that in this state. I don't want to pay for her blowing up our family. She makes money. She'll have to adjust her expenses.


Wait a minute, HP. Child support or alimony? What's her A got to do with your kid? I'm not saying she shouldn't have to tighten up her belt and I'm not saying she shouldn't pay her fair share. Just make sure your child isn't being used as a pawn in a financial struggle. I'm sure you won't. smile
Posted By: Vapo

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 03:05 PM

Rppfl, as I understand, he has his son with him at least as much as she does, so any child support is out of the question IMO.
Posted By: SunnyB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 04:12 PM

But the issue he brought up wasn't time sharing, it was the fact that W had an A.
Posted By: Drew

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 05:05 PM

In my state, marital misconduct has no effect on child custody or support. As always it's best to check with a good family law attorney.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 05:14 PM

Hello all. In my state, with proof of infidelity, alimony/child support does get denied. I have proof. I have a lawyer's advice. I won't fund her blowing up our family.

My XW did not anticipate me taking my money from her. She makes her own money and is already spending more than she can afford. Her expenses are b/c of her decisions and are hers to take care of.

I have also had our son 85% of days at least b/c of my XW's living conditions and money issues. I left the home we were living in with our son.
Posted By: LITB

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: HPoirot
Hello all. In my state, with proof of infidelity, alimony/child support does get denied. I have proof. I have a lawyer's advice. I won't fund her blowing up our family.

^^^^this is exactly why it is important to know your rights. The laws vary from state to state. Good for you HP.

I am glad that you are doing better today. It is always a process.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 05:53 PM

She doesn't seem to have any problem in backing out of agreements she has made with you or her son. She just expects you to pick up the slack she has caused.

So she is spending more and now says you will need to pay her part of the tuition? Nice. smirk More than once she has said that her expenses will be more than yours. How does she know this? (You don't have to answer.....I'm just making a point.) It shouldn't matter, if she made an agreement. Maybe everything needs to be based on the sliding scale.

I don't think you are going to be able to simply take her verbal agreement on these financial issues. She doesn't seem to stick to much of anything she's agreed upon.....whether it is scheduling, finances, or what she tells her son. You may have to get the court to decide about the scheduling and the finances. (Somehow, I think she would still try to manipulate her way around things.)

So sad it is this way. If she was not this way before she became a WAW, then hopefully, she will stop this wishy-washy style some day.

Do what you believe is the right/fair thing to do. In doing so, you won't be out to punish her, and you won't be putting yourself and S12 at risk financially.
Posted By: HeavyD

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 06:00 PM

I wish that wer true in CA. We only get irreconiable differences. I have proof of her infidilities through multiple emails but it doesn't matter. Too bad.

My WAW lieft ou house and refuses to contribute her potion of the mortgage leaving me to pay the whole thing. She went out an got a very expensive apartment. In the mediation process, i am asking her to pay me for her missed mortgage payments which she is seriously gets angry over and claims she is not responsble to pay for. Her name is on the deed. Oh boy.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 06:20 PM

Hello LITB. I really didn't want this to come to legal moves but she has a wrong vision of how all this goes. She has said, "This transition isn't isn't going the way it's supposed to go." Everything she has tried to do so far has failed.

Knowing that, I don't want to appear like I'm purposefully making things difficult for her to punish her or to look like I want to force her back into our R. Trying to find the balance of protecting myself and S12 while leaving room for any possibility of R in the future.

I was reading Denver_2010's thread again and feel reenergized to just have faith in the possibility of R with no expectations of how that would happen.

So, now she has 2 things she wants me to talk with her about... paying tuition and sharing S12's time. She proposes me giving her money for child support/paying S12's tuition and a week on/week off schedule for S12. I'm not good with either.

So I want to send her this text...

Hello XW. I got your text about school tuition and S12's schedule. I paid the $X amount we discussed and will pay my part of the January payment, $Y, with my next paycheck. Also, how would you feel about a 4 day split schedule for S12? Thank you XW

So I'm just telling her what I will pay and asking politely about schedule I prefer. Short and to the point. Can I do better with this text?

She may panic and cry on money. She may find she does not have enough.

Also, from what I understand from the DB books, I just do my best to be agreeable with decisions like this even though I don't want any of this at all. So there's nothing more to say in my text about my really not wanting any of this. I'm not to worry that I'm condoning her leaving our R... I'm just respecting her choice.

I want to keep the road home paved smooth. I'm really going to try now. Right now my thinking is that means I keep pulled way back from her and living a fun GAL life while acting "as if" I'm moving on.

EDIT: I also have to give her the amount she owes on our final bills from our own home. She has said she feels "stuck" by our life/bills. Yes I feel that way too. But she has a responsibility to pay these things so I can't feel afraid to push her away expecting her to pay her way.
Posted By: HPoirot

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 06:56 PM

Originally Posted By: sandi2
She doesn't seem to have any problem in backing out of agreements she has made with you or her son. She just expects you to pick up the slack she has caused.

So she is spending more and now says you will need to pay her part of the tuition? Nice. smirk More than once she has said that her expenses will be more than yours. How does she know this? (You don't have to answer.....I'm just making a point.) It shouldn't matter, if she made an agreement. Maybe everything needs to be based on the sliding scale.

I don't think you are going to be able to simply take her verbal agreement on these financial issues. She doesn't seem to stick to much of anything she's agreed upon.....whether it is scheduling, finances, or what she tells her son. You may have to get the court to decide about the scheduling and the finances. (Somehow, I think she would still try to manipulate her way around things.)

So sad it is this way. If she was not this way before she became a WAW, then hopefully, she will stop this wishy-washy style some day.

Do what you believe is the right/fair thing to do. In doing so, you won't be out to punish her, and you won't be putting yourself and S12 at risk financially.







Hello Sandi and Jan.

I'm sure my XW has been bad on her schedule and financing only b/c she doesn't know what she's doing. She was expecting my support for 6 months while she enjoyed her new secret life. Now she's experiencing the consequences of her choices.

That, and she wants to "live" as she says. So she spends money on trips to NYC and the mountains and $300 for S12's sneakers and weeks of rental cars. She asked me for another $200 just last week before taking it back.

I'll won't start anything legal. I'll just pay my part of things. She'll have to figure out how she'll pay the rest. If she can't, she'll have to decide to get a lawyer/mediator on her own and pay for it on her own. I'll just be as agreeable and respectful as I can.

It's still mysterious to me that she can even bring herself to ask me for breaks and help. I'm almost used to it now.

I really would like to do what's possible and sensible to reduce her resentment about me. I'm concerned that all this she'll see as me controlling her or undervaluing her... a couple of her problems with our M.
Posted By: zew

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 08:24 PM

HP - please be sure of the distinction between alimony (spousal support) and child support.

I'm no lawyer, and I'm not in your state, but I can see that infidelity could prevent alimony/spousal support. The principle is that your W is a responsible adult, she made a choice other than you, and thus you are relieved of responsibility for her.

I haven't ever heard of infidelity affecting child support, though. The principle is that they are your kids, you are responsible for them, you have to support them - bad acting by either parent is irrelevant. (kids don't give up the need to be supported because of the actions of one parent). And then, generally child support is some formula based on the difference of incomes, factored by the percentage of time spent with the custodial parent.

Please check this out.
Posted By: Wonka

Re: Happiness Can Exist Only In Acceptance - 01/28/15 08:25 PM

HP,

You've got to put your foot down when it comes to schedule for it is incredibly unfair to s12 to have a mother who changes things up at the whim to "satisify" her own needs.

When will you REALLY push back W and have a firm, consistent schedule in place???

One way to get it in place is to agree to a set schedule for say one whole month and then print it out for all three of you. Then say, we need to follow this schedule to ensure stability and consistency for everyone...especially s12. Emphasize to W that s12 has the print out in his bedroom so everyone is on the same page.

No more games.
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