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T0324 part 3

Posted By: T384

T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 03:35 PM

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2525358&page=11

Previous thread will probably be locked soon. No contact with H. My mom wants me to text him again about C saying if he is in this marriage at all I would like him to come. I'm not really sure.

I don't think there's any turning back from this. He is the man he was when he first left in February. He slept in today and my dad had to take the boys to school. He has stopped caring about anything unless it's for him.

I have been jotting things down to discuss at counseling ... Even just for me alone. These are the things that I feel or the way he makes me feel.



I feel like he Just doesn't care ... Doesn't drive the kids to school.. Worried about what's good for him.

Told me he's secretive about his phone because he doesn't want me going through it getting numbers out trying to talk to people --- I've never done that. Talked inappropriately with her before he left the first time. I should be able to look at his phone whenever.

I feel that he Cannot be around people that supported his relationship with her, him working there is like a slap in my face. He could go work anywhere... Go work at McDonald's for all I care. Any job but there. That was the only dealbreaker to keep

Stress shouldn't stop him from making our marriage a priority. I'm stressed but still work, want my marriage, etc.

His actions make me fear he will just not come home or having a relationship with someone else when he is distant

He lived the single life, now back to life with responsibilities. Took on too much at once

Why can't he respect my feelings

How can he agree to my deal breakers and then change his mind and not agree with them. Just doing what he had to do to come home

No date nights

Miserable.. Not outgoing. Makes me feel like a burden. A huge change from who he was.

What changed??

Feel like he doesn't share his life with me. Doesn't express what's wrong or talk to me about the problems he has he just lets everything build up and builds resentment towards me
.
Feel like his friends come before me. He's more concerned about them then me

No discussing between us he made the choice

Where is the man tha was happy to see me. That was excited about spending time with me. I used to get a text everyday. Now I get nothing


Anyway those are my thoughts that are jotted down.

I don't believe there is coming back from this. I think I just need to let go and proceed with my lawyer.

I don't know what my next step should be.
Posted By: lost18

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 03:50 PM

Hey TO, sorry you're going thru this again. Read thru your posts and see if you can find the common theme (and problem) with it.

Pretty much everything you wrote is about HIM, you can not control him, only you. Trust me I know it's hard not to focus on him. I spend much time trying to figure out H's actions still, but you know what...I still have no idea why he is doing anything.

Keep this in mind, only one person in the world can make you happy...YOU! I don't think your H has figured that out yet. He's stressed about $$ and feeling tons of pressure. He is gravitating back to people and things he thinks are going to make him happy, that is a reflection on him...not you!
Posted By: JCred

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 04:03 PM

I think there is more than likely OW involved.. All the red flags are there.
What are your thoughts on that?
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 04:32 PM

I don't want to do that again

Should I say something like I would really appreciate if you would go to C tomorrow
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 04:37 PM

T0,

First, MAJOR kudos to you for that big sip of STFU juice you took last night. Even though I was pounding on you about keeping your mouth shut because I was sooooo fearful you wouldn't I gotta be honest: I don't know if even I could have stayed quiet. Which is likely the reason I kept harping on it last night.

Good on you!

As for next steps, I honestly don't think you have many choices. You mainly have two: 1. Text him about your M or your family or your MC appointment, which at this point would look like pursuing, and it would certainly feel like it to him, or 2. Put your DB game-face on you know the one and go to your MC appointment without saying anything to H. H knows about the appointment, right? He knows your non-negotiables, right? He's a big boy. He can listen and process. He doesn't need you to hold his hand through it.

What I'm hearing from you right now is fear. And a GREAT deal of it.

When I picture you right now, I see you clinging on to something for dear life and slipping.

You're scared of losing your H, and you're starting to grasp. Nothing good will come from clinging and grasping. Or texting. That is just going to push him further away in his current mindset. Unfortunately, this isn't your first rodeo, so you know this.

Please don't get desperate. Or if you get desperate, don't act on it. Texting him about your MC appointment looks like control and pressure. It smacks of grasping.

Be STRONG. Be confident. Be courageous. Don't be mean or short with H. Just act as if you're not bothered by his behavior. You're carrying on with your life, knowing you've been perfectly clear that him going back to work with OW's dad is a non-negotiable. But you don't need to repeat that to him. He already knows and is making his own choices. Take care of your boys. Do something for you. Leave him guessing about what YOU are going to do. Trust me: he's thinking about it. If you text him about MC, you're giving him A LOT of power that he does not need or deserve right now.

And as hard as I know it is, try to thought-stop when your mind starts racing with questions like: Why's he doing this? What happened? Why is he choosing x over y? Put a rubber band on your wrist and snap it against your arm if you start those obsessive thoughts. Replace them with questions about YOUR life: What can I do to get through this moment? What are my GAL plans this weekend? How can I shore-up x or y in the event he leaves, or I ask him to leave?
Posted By: claire7

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 04:41 PM

^^yep yep yep.
T0, I am rooting for you! Take some deep breaths. You can do this! Remember? !
Posted By: sandi2

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 05:20 PM

((TO)), I try to imagine how you must feel. I care very much about what is happening to you. I hear the fear, and sometimes you sound like you did the first time he pulled this stunt. Don't be that scared girl again. You climbed out of this mess before. You proved you could make it without him. Even your feelings had began to fade right before he showed up begging.

I am just going to come out and say it.......he is not interested in going to counseling. And you are desparately clinging to that one hope (MC), and if you contact him wanting him to attend, he will see your desperation. Sweetheart, please do nothing to persue him. It will not work. Bless your mother, I know she is desparately wanting to find someone that can help. But you know his heart is not right, and even if he was pressured into going to MC, what could that MC say in one hour that would change is heart back to the man you want?

I am so, so sorry. If there was ever a time to apply tough love, it's now. He has no excuse or defense that could justify his behavior. He is wayward, and his heart has turned cold. This time, he should see you as a woman who will not take one more day of his sh't and who is not afraid and who won't try to talk him out of anything, b/c she is done. Not through talking............no more talks. Just action. Get to your lawyer immediately. Protect yourself financially, and protect those kids. Find out your options (which you probably know from last time). You don't know what he may do next, but for sure you can't trust him.

This doesn't sound like marriage-saving advice, but really it is. In my WAW opinion, that is the only thing that may possibly yank his a$$ hard enough to reach his brain. And if it doesn't, you will be protected and have taken necessary steps to move on with your life. Catering to him does not work. Being the sacrificial marriage lamb won't bring him back to the man you want him to be......and he SHOULD be for his family.

Find your spunk again. It's there inside of you.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 05:40 PM

You all are right I am just scared to lose him forever.

I fought so hard to get him back and to knowingly watch him slip away is tearing me apart. I want him to fight for me the way I am fighting for him.

I just hope we can. Figure this out before it gets any worse.
Posted By: JCred

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 05:54 PM

Sandi took the words out of my mouth.
I could not agree more... He is making another mistake..Some men only learn the hard way... ..
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 06:04 PM

Maybe this is what he really wants and him coming home made him realize that
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 06:06 PM

Clearly I agree with everything sandi said. This part really sticks out, and I believe it wholeheartedly:

This doesn't sound like marriage-saving advice, but really it is. In my WAW opinion, that is the only thing that may possibly yank his a$$ hard enough to reach his brain.

It might not work. But it's got a much bigger chance of working than pursuing him. He needs to see that you mean business. I know it feels counter-intuitive, but it's really the perfect advice ... and the ONLY thing that might work to wake him up sooner rather than later. A woman with self-respect, confidence and conviction is ATTRACTIVE. Hard to resist.

A desperate woman is not attractive and very easy to resist.

It's elementary, my dear. wink

I also know you're hurting, mama. But you know strength takes time. And it'll come faster with a little effort.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 07:12 PM

I know what I need to do. It just [censored]!

So no initiating conversation, happy and pleasant. Make my own plans this weekend. No family time unless he initiates? Even then I don't want to have family time while he is pursuing another his ex job and potential OW

I will be making plans for the boys and I this weekend.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324
Maybe this is what he really wants and him coming home made him realize that


Well, regardless of whether that ^^ is the truth (if he even knows)

I'd expect HIM - TO SAY it is...

but, so what?

How does that change anything substantive?
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 07:49 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324
I know what I need to do. It just [censored]!

So no initiating conversation, happy and pleasant. Make my own plans this weekend.

Absolutely.


No family time unless he initiates?


Yes, but please, have zero expectations that this^^ will happen. I mean, you are sort of getting ahead of yourself here. Lose those expectations and then you won't be disappointed.

What, if anything, are you willing to do to verify if an OW is happening, or are you okay with staying quiet on that, for now?

I'm sensing indecision on your end (totally understandable!) but we need to know what you want, in order to best advise.


Even then I don't want to have family time while he is pursuing another his ex job and potential OW

I will be making plans for the boys and I this weekend.


"Family time"...

Denying him that won't help, (but I don't think this is a problem, b/c I don't see him making plans for "family time", do you?)

You want to contrast the life he is creating for himself, (miserable, lonely, in someone else's home, etc)

with the warm & loving life YOU and your kids have in your home...


By "contrast", I don't mean pursuit here^^...just you living your life well.

What GAL are you doing now, btw? it's a bigger ingredient to success and plain old feeling good, than you may realize.

In fact you probably think "GAL is the LAST thing I feel like doing now! I'm hurting!"

I get that. But we harp on GAL for one reason; it works.

It SO helps to detach and once detached, this^^ all gets easier.


When we were living in Alaska, I did the following things to GAL.

*I saw a T, which helped.

*Worked out 3 x a week and got in the best shape I'd been in, for years.

Since we'd had our last child there, I had to lose the baby weight anyhow.

(And looking our best always has some PMA to it. Maybe it's endorphins + ego, but it helps).

*Joined a writer's club.

*Edited a book (it became a best seller. Who knew?)

*Took a class in Italian cooking, and then one in Conversational French.

*Learned how to target shoot, deep sea fish & hunt big game (bucket list for me).

*Took flying lessons and got my pilot's license (also a bucket list for me).

*Greatly improved as a skiier, and learned to snowmobile (or "ride a snow machine" as they say up there).

*Auditioned for community theater and other productions; then got cast.
(Nothing like rehearsing or being in front of a live audience, to keep your mind OFF your spouse).

There, I met creative FUN people, none of whom knew my situation, which helped.

*Tried Stand up comedy, & I still do it. (I once did a whole set on MLCs at the Hollywood Comedy Store. There sure must be a lot of those people around, b/c the audience seemed to connect a lot with that set).

*Volunteered at a Battered Women's Shelter (yes, gratitude for your life WILL occur)

*Was on the Bd of Directors for the state's Wrestling Club, & the Girls Softball club (both older kids were on teams then).

*I took a pottery class (very different for me, but a good stretch)

*Joined the Officer Wives' Club, after 15 years of H being active duty (and my being a veteran myself).

Man, I sure wish I'd joined that sooner. I met 2 women there who saved me from being way too depressed, and whose friendships were/are vital to me.
*I went skydiving, (LOVED it! Yes, it was a bucket list item for me)

btw, last time I went skydiving, H joined me, (a 180 for him)

Notice that except for the skydiving/pilot's training, almost all these ^^ activities are free or cheap.

Later on, I planned and went on a trip to Italy, with the 3 kids. (I did not want our anniversary to be another body blow to my ego, so I did what I would have liked to do with h, with my kids instead.) Best trip I'd ever been on.

The trip was a real challenge for me to do without h. I admit I had some fears b/c at the time, our youngest was 9.

But once there, and having fun, I realized that like MANY military families, one learns to have fun and bond and grow, with or without the other parent there.

Families can be close and loving, even when one party is absent...the trip validated that and empowered me, a great deal. The first trip I planned was a short ski trip about 3 hours away. That got me and the kids used to the idea of having fun, with or without h.

As I said, GAL is key to Detachment. Both GAL & Detachment, will help you heal.

We are all rooting for you and sending you peace, light & love.

Keep on keeping on, T0. You've got this.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 08:13 PM

I don't think he would say that 25. He is a coward. Exactly why he had to send me that through text last night about the job. Exactly why he could never admit to OW and why he never even told me he filed for D. He takes the easy, non confrontational way out. That's why he slept on the couch last night to avoid confrontation.

Which is why, as hard as it was, I didn't say anything but managed a goodnight to him because he expected me to be nasty or come out there and try to talk

I feel that these next couple days are going to be paramount for me. I expect him to leave but I will be so upset when it actually happens because as much as I 'think' it will happen I know I will flip out.

Him choosing to sleep on the couch shows his decision. He said he wasn't picking a job over his family but by him choosing to sleep on the couch it shows me more. He is picking *something* over me.

And you're right. I do need to be a choice, a better person. I struggle to find the balance of being the W only a fool would leave and not a pursuing doormat.

I have no GAL activities. Our lives have revolved around things with each other and our boys.

I will be hitting the gym back and re-applying for the second job I had. but most important I am starting grad school this year

Oh and ETA:

I fully do not expect him to plan family time. I actually thought about offering him to have the boys Sunday and I would have them Saturday. Any thoughts on that?

Also I'm not doing anything about an OW right now. I can't accesss phone records, nothing is indicating anything on Facebook. So there's not much I can do and right now it doesn't change my goal. If anything reveals itself in the future then I can certainly reevaluate. At this time with the facts I do have I do not want a D.
Posted By: Zelda09

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 08:41 PM

TO - sounds like you have a lot to be at peace over, if you saved your marriage once, held on to your changes...and he's still making the same choices and generally giving very few f*&^s.

Please hold a thought close to you to chase out the desperation and keep that peace with you - you deserve more than this and you are better than this! You are worth loving and someone that is deserving of some pursuit, themselves.

May be time for you to be the WAS, at least emotionally to start, and get on with creating a better future and environment for yourself and your family.
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/13/15 11:06 PM

T,

I, for one, am not convinced H is seeing or pursuing OW again. I could absolutely be wrong. But considering the financial pressure he has been under, it would take A LOT more to convince me he's back in an A.

I think you're EXACTLY right: for all intents and purposes, whether he is or isn't in an A should not change your planned course of action.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 12:40 AM

Train,

I do believe he does not have OW. I think it is the financial stress and depression. Not that either excuses his actions or behavior.

Still haven't heard from him or tried to talk to him. Hes not even home.
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 12:48 AM

Do you see how much stronger you are compared to the beginning stages of the last time this "distancing" happened?

You're not chasing (pursuing) H, not begging him to reconsider, not begging him to stay, not begging him to refuse to work for XOW's dad.

You're in the biggest case of limbo ever. And, Honey, you are rock solid. Nerves of STEEL, I tell ya.

You are doing BEYOND great, T0.

One day at a time ...
Posted By: sandi2

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 01:07 AM

Two things that really stand out is how he has been sleeping with his phone to keep it private, and him choosing to sleep on the couch. You don't sleep with a phone when you are stressed out. And him sleeping on the couch when you have not pursued an argument, is a big statement in my book.

Your female intuition has been telling you something was off. I just don't think he would resemble so much who he was last, if this was over financial stressors alone. He is choosing to rebel against the life he had with you, and that is why he has this stinking attitude and inexcuseable behavior.

From what I can tell, you have been a W only a fool would leave. So what does that say for him?

"As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly." (Prov 26:11)
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 02:09 AM

Thank youSandi and Train,

I'm not excusing his behavior as only financial stress but I truly don't believe it's XOW. I've been Facebook stalking. Her and her BF are back together and just got back from vacation. All appears well - engagement posts etc.

So I got home. H was on the coach. I came in and just said hi everyone as the boys came up and hugged me. H said nothing. I walked in the kitchen packed the boys lunch asked about their day etc (they wait up for me on the nights I work as long as it's before 9pm)

I got the boys settled and asked them if they brushed their teeth. H answered for them. Then I made a point to be in the kitchen while he was on the couch and said hey, my grandma got discharged today. I'm so happy for her. He said oh that's good. Then I said did you want the leftovers for lunch or can I take them. He said no thank you you can have them. I said okay thanks and went into my room and got in the shower. Sitting in my room now with a glass of wine and the bachelor
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 02:28 AM

What's your work schedule this week, sweetie?
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 02:34 AM

I work tomorrow which would be the end of my 3 days but I apparently agreed to overtime Thursday... So thursday is a possibility but not a definite. Then I am off until Monday.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 02:49 AM

So H just came in to kiss the boys ... They are in my bed again. He gave me a kiss good night and said I love you. I said goodnight

Continuing in limbo land
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 02:56 AM

Make some plans with friends ASAP.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 03:07 AM

Ya actually I don't know if I mentioned this but his current boss owe us about 5k. I've been trying to get ahold of them to get the cash but they have been avoiding me. His wife (the bookeeper) finally text me tonight. Basically being a b!tch. I went out there and let H know I talked to her and the conversation. He was just like okay we will see how it goes tomorrow. I said I was as nice and easy going as I could be.

He just said oh well. I told him I am not trying to create a problem for you(I cleared it with him a few weeks ago for me to reach out to them) he told me it was fine for me to talk to them about it. I wanted to ask first because I didn't want to create a problem at work. Anyway they havent given H a paycheck for the last 2 weeks of December. This is why he's scrambling about the job.

Anyway, she told me basically that I was lying about needing the money (um it's not your money to decide if we need it or not) and that she wasn't dealing with it. Anyway so I sent H the texts of our conversation so he knew and he just said thanks.

I'm making plans if I work Thursday to go out after work.
Posted By: vossy

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 04:15 AM

Hi T0.. sorry to jump in now, but I have been reading all your recent posts over the last few weeks.

I get the impression your H is suddenly having a lot of feelings catch up to him.. guilt, stress, etc. Whether you let him come back "easily" or not is irrelevant, he came back and things were good because he was back, and now that's worn off he has to start dealing with the consequences: shame, guilt, money, etc.

FWIW I think you're doing great, and the fact that you're not reacting how he expects you too is HUGE.

As for his employer, why aren't they paying? What's that about? Is there no contract?
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 04:35 PM

[quote=T0324]I don't think he would say that 25. He is a coward. Exactly why he had to send me that through text last night about the job. Exactly why he could never admit to OW and why he never even told me he filed for D. He takes the easy, non confrontational way out. That's why he slept on the couch last night to avoid confrontation.


OMG, I so wish conflict avoiders would learn that conflict exists regardless of whether it's confronted. Conflict Is still there! I am certain that "avoiding" conflict resolves ZERO conflicts, but I also think it makes situations worse.

Unresolved conflicts fester, get misconstrued, and resentments grow. That worsens things too. So much for avoiding the conflicts...

it's like they believe avoiding (= merely Delaying) that weird awkward moment that comes with someone asserting themselves or confronting an issue of disagreement, is worth it.

They forget or fail to realize that a much larger conflict with a lot more emotional "heat," is looming, the longer they delay facing reality.

Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: vossy
Hi T0.. sorry to jump in now, but I have been reading all your recent posts over the last few weeks.

I get the impression your H is suddenly having a lot of feelings catch up to him.. guilt, stress, etc. Whether you let him come back "easily" or not is irrelevant, he came back and things were good because he was back, and now that's worn off he has to start dealing with the consequences: shame, guilt, money, etc.

FWIW I think you're doing great, and the fact that you're not reacting how he expects you too is HUGE.

Amen!


As for his employer, why aren't they paying? What's that about? Is there no
contract?



I wondered the same thing. It's weird sounding and whatever is in writing, should prevail.

Also, no offense, but why are YOU handling this matter at all, and not him?

I realize you ran it by him first. I do. And that matters.

But there are so many aspects to that which could negate your own personal work, I wonder how your h really feels about it, and or, if he even knows.

It's pretty unusual for a wife to call a boss's wife or the boss himself, to get her husband's pay. I know I'd greatly hesitate.

( I've been where you are in the sense that h's "heroes" in Alaska promised him $$$$$ to get him there. Then his pay went down and stayed down the 2nd year. What?? After all the rigamarole to get him/us there, to lure him to take the "worlds best job", h was just embarrassed. Probably humiliated. I can understand why. Very frustrating, I know.)

SOME risks of involving yourself in it, include him feeling slighted or emasculated. Or that you are again disappointed in him, financially.

Though it obviously can't help YOUR relationships with his boss/boss's family, but what about his?

And btw, this is the new "good/better" boss, right? (So that makes 2 bosses of his in a row, with whom you will have poor r's, correct?)

T0, you said bringing up money around OR about your h, isn't something you do anymore. You said you stopped doing that b/c it really bothered him...but really, isn't this the same type of thing?

Just asking.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 05:55 PM

Thanks Vossy,

There is no contract. They just told H they don't have the money and are waiting for jobs to come in. I'm trying to let that be his battle. The only reason I involved myself was because they owe me specifically that money for a check they received. I'm not getting involved in his business about what they owe him. I only asked him if I could contact them because it's his boss and I. Didn't want to create issues at work for him

I'm just trying to do a 180, no anger, just neighborly.

He did initiate a talk last night. He had sent me a text saying he was getting rid of his truck. I just replied with okay. Later last night while he was on the couch he said that's it's really nice that I don't even care he's getting rid of his truck. I asked him why he thought that? He said because all you said was okay. You didn't say anything else like it doesn't even matter. I said I'm sorry I didn't even know you were thinking of it and I really want to have discussions in person not via text. He just told me he doesn't know what he wants and doesn't knkw how he feels about me. He's sick of his life and sick of feeling the way he does. I just told him I understood and that I couldn't help him if he didn't let me. That I am not a mind reader, although I try to be sometimes, and if he need something from me he just has to ask. He told me things have gone downhill that we argue non stop since thanksgiving.

I would be 100% honest with you guys ... He is full of it. Yes we argued about thanksgiving and yes I've asked hi. To be more affectionate. But that's it. So he just doesn't know how he feels about me.

He just kept saying how stressed he was how broke he is. I said that none of that accounts for how secretive he is. There is no reason to be sleeping with his phone. He said he didn't want me going through and calling people out of there. I said I have never done that and I have every right to and we agreed to you coming on my phone plan. It wasn't heated it was just very matter of fact. I told him we both deserve to be happy and to treat each other with respect. I asked him to put himself in my shoes. He told me he has no interest in Ow and hasn't talked to her since July.

I told him I don't know how to make him happy. I dont know what you want for me. He was just full of I don't knows. He told me he planned on meeting me at counseling tonight. I just said okay that would mean a lot to me.

I told him goodnight and that if he needed to talk or needed help he just had to ask and I went in my room. He ended up coming in and watching tv with me.

I left it at that. No I love you or anything further.

I won't be initiating communication unless he comes to MC. I also don't want to do past tense and overwhelm him with too many issues i have right now with everything. He can't even tell me he wants this marriage. In response to if he wants to be M is I don't know what I want. That's his answer to everything.

He needs to go on his own journey again I guess.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 06:05 PM

25 I haven't really had a problem with R with his boss's. I try not to get involved in his work too much. We were very close with ex boss and his wife. Double dates, family vacations, they were in our wedding, etc. He and H were friends long before H started working for them (they met through work being in the same business). My R with them turned sour when BD came. After learning the things their daughter was saying to my H and learning that ex boss W (OW stepmom) knew the whole time and lied to me about knowing anything (her and I talked, went to lunch etc after BD... She swore she knew nothing).

So that's where that problem started. I also personally believe in don't mix business with pleasure. H seems to do that too much with these last 2 jobs and it doesn't end well. Current boss and his wife are also friends of ours since H and I met. They are having SEVERE money problems which is probably why she lashed out on me. H believes they spent all the money they owe and don't have it but won't admit to that.

I just want the issue resolved. It's been going on since September and at this point I really need the money. Now with them shorting him 2 weeks of pay I really feel like we are getting into a hole with them and their lack of funds. I really am fine with them even giving me 100/month or whatever they can afford I just want something on paper that covers me. If it were less money I would brush it off but that is a pretty decent amount of cash to me right now.
Posted By: raliced

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 06:18 PM

T0,

Forgive me for weighing in for the first time at this moment. I have read your threads regularly and you always get lots of excellent advice. I tend to blunder into situations with some practical advice.

When I read over your situation, it just seems to me that the financial pressure that your H is feeling is its own kind of all consuming fog that prevents him from working on anything else in his life.

I know from your previous posts that he blew through 20,000 during his crisis last year. I guess I'm not clear if the two of you together have cash flow problems or if he is just struggling with a lot of personal debt. I also can't quite figure out what you H does for a living although I'm sure its somewhere in your threads.

Make no mistake, $20,000 is a significant amount of money. But it always strike me when I read your posts that its not an insurmountable amount of debt. Does your H have anyone else, besides you, who can advise him on this matter? I know you are a nurse, does your employer give you access to a credit union? Are you an H members? If so, someone there may be able to look at his situation and offer advice. That type of institution might be able to get him a non-predatory consolidation loan or something similar. Not sure what his credit situation is.

I guess my overall point is that your husband sounds like he is drowning in the finances and unfortunately right now - you can't be the one to throw the life preserver - but he does need help. If he ends up at MC with you tonight - maybe the C can point him in that direction.

Good Luck T0 - I'm rooting for you and for your family!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324
25 I haven't really had a problem with R with his boss's. I try not to get involved in his work too much. We were very close with ex boss and his wife. Double dates, family vacations, they were in our wedding, etc. He and H were friends long before H started working for them (they met through work being in the same business).

Ahhh, I'm Sorry T0, I'm confused a bit with which boss is which, versus the "X" and the "old boss".

Let me see if I have this straight. The "ex boss" you are referring to, is the one with the OW daughter, right? Okay..and THEY were friends of yours (or your h) before he worked for/with them, correct?

But before that, before the move to where you are now, your h worked elsewhere and there, he made a chunk more money, correct?

So was the new job (i.e. the job with now ex boss, in your present area and for which your h moved)

a job in a start up or in some way, going to lead to more money, later?? And then it didn't?

And NOW, he's in a new job (3rd one I know of)

but you lent the new boss, some money and they have not paid YOU back. Is that accurate? Dang girl, I can't say I've ever lent my h's boss money. That would make me worry they are having too many $$ problems to pay my h.

Have any of the things you assumed would be taken care of with your loan, happened? Did they waste the money or do you know? Is that even an issue?

But maybe I've misunderstood.


My R with them turned sour when BD came. After learning the things their daughter was saying to my H and learning that ex boss W (OW stepmom) knew the whole time and lied to me about knowing anything (her and I talked, went to lunch etc after BD... She swore she knew nothing).

I'm sure it did turn sour. FTR, that stepmother must be mortified. Then again, it's times like that when I learn there are folks who are NEVER "mortified"

(b/c that would require a moral self awareness they lack.) But I could understand the step mom being embarrassed. Doesn't excuse lying, but it sort of explains it. It does not equate with supporting their A.

I just don't think you know enough to determine that, and at this point it's not relevant, is it?

So that's where that problem started.


Meaning, where the problem with your r's with them, right?


I also personally believe in don't mix business with pleasure. H seems to do that too much with these last 2 jobs and it doesn't end well. Current boss and his wife are also friends of ours since H and I met. They are having SEVERE money problems which is probably why she lashed out on me. H believes they spent all the money they owe and don't have it but won't admit to that.

good insights^^. Doesn't solve the problem, but it might explain it. Gives you somewhere to start.



I just want the issue resolved. It's been going on since September and at this point I really need the money. Now with them shorting him 2 weeks of pay I really feel like we are getting into a hole with them and their lack of funds. I really am fine with them even giving me 100/month or whatever they can afford I just want something on paper that covers me.

Extremely reasonable. (Of course, next time you loan someone money, you will put it in writing- so I won't even go there.. cool )

But what about you now writing them a letter suggesting such a repayment plan?

(I'd put an amount that is higher than $100 per month, just so it gets paid off in your lifetime.)

Maybe give them a few options with that amount (i.e. $100 monthly) as the lowest available.

By making them feel responsible for repaying you, you validate (in writing) the debt, and hopefully start that repayment process. Then if they flake out, you'll have something in writing.

(Note - the check you gave them, is a record of sorts. That's not invalid just b/c it doesn't spell out that it's a loan, as long as it doesn't say "gift" on it.)

Anyhow, you have options when it comes to that debt.

and now, back to your h...


-
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 07:10 PM

Okay let me clarify

In 2011 we moved across the state for a great opportunity making just over 6 figures. It was a large corporation. H was unhappy there so ex boss (with OW) had been trying to get H to work for him forever. So in 2012 we moved back to our hometown (we have always owned a home here and just had it empty while we lived across the state). It was an initial paycut (50%) but I was working and ex boss said it was temporary and that in 6 months he would get a 30% raise. That NEVER happened. H left ex boss job temporarily in 2013 to go back to the larger corporation (they have locations all over). This caused him to drive my commute (about 100 miles round trip). The money wasn't great so H ended up going back to ex boss until DB

Current boss is also a friend that has his own company. Paid H the same he was making for ex boss. Except there is no potential for extra money. At ex boss he could work extra and make a good amount of money to supplement his income. Current boss is not as busy so no opportunity for extra hours/money.

Whew that was a lot and confusing. I'm sorry for my soap opera life!

The step mother was NOT mortified. She and her H (ex boss) fully funded H and XOW R. Stepmother took photos of herself in the keys posing in front of a vehicle of mine that H had given them to drive on vacation. She posted a photo the day my L was in court with H's L to get the vehicles returned. Also, when H told them XOW was the biggest mistake of his life, stepmom and Ex boss text messaged H (I saw) that he should cool off and they knew he and XOW could work things out. That they missed hanging out the 4 of them ... How funny it used to be the 4 of us hanging out, now just replace me with their daughter lol. You are right. It's NOT relevant entirely. However this is an example of why I don't want H working there in that environment. They are not good people for our M.


And yes my problem with them started at BD. I was unhappy with his job that ex boss never gave H the pay increase he promised but it was the only thing in his field close to home at the time so we compromised on that.

And yes unfortunately I left the money situation. Up to my H and that's my fault but I am trying to resolve it. It's a double edged sword bc I don't want to affect his current work and I also don't want it to appear negative towards me with having him be angry with me about it BUT at the same time I need to stand firm and have it resolved.

Raliced - thank you. Financials was what C was starting to get into at our last meeting. H's problem with debt is that what is going out monthly is greater than what he brings in. So he is short and can't afford everything. I pay more of the household expenses so unless he has more bills than he's letting on it doesn't make sense
Posted By: sandi2

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 08:29 PM

You don't suppose they let your H go from his job, and he just didn't tell you? (You know, to avoid conflict.) I've seen that happen more than once with other people.

Quote:
He had sent me a text saying he was getting rid of his truck. I just replied with okay. Later last night while he was on the couch he said that's it's really nice that I don't even care he's getting rid of his truck. I asked him why he thought that? He said because all you said was okay. You didn't say anything else like it doesn't even matter.


Man, he likes to bait the hook, doesn't he?

Quote:
He just told me he doesn't know what he wants and doesn't knkw how he feels about me. He's sick of his life and sick of feeling the way he does.


He wants to play victim, so you will feel sorry for him?

Quote:
He told me things have gone downhill that we argue non stop since thanksgiving.


Oh, he is laying the foundation for something else.

Quote:
I asked him to put himself in my shoes. He told me he has no interest in Ow and hasn't talked to her since July.


But did YOU bring up the subject of OW?

Be prepared, he may use the MC session as the place & time for second BD.

You are an amazing young woman! You clearly are the matured one in this relationship. Sometimes a H & W do not grow at the same speed, and it can cause problems.....but it doesn't have to, it just takes a lot of love & understanding from the more matured one. However, if you begin to feel like you are the mother and he's the little boy, that may be tough to overcome a certain lack of respect and admiration in him as a man. But right now, I'm sure you would like to be able to respect him for just doing the right thing for his W and kids.

You've got this now. You are no longer sounding like a scared little girl. You are a survivor!
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 08:58 PM

Thank you Sandi

I have been trying to tell myself that he will use MC to say that it's over and he wants a divorce since it will be a controlled environment and can get away with saying he told me in person.

I'm trying to prepare myself.

Yes I asked about OW. He was saying he didn't know what he wants he has no idea if he wants to be M. So I said are you seeing someone? Or are you talking to her again

I don't feel sorry for him. I don't deserve the treatment im receiving from him. I'm not going to coddle him for his decisions. Yes I want to be M but more importantly I want to be respected first and foremost. The foundation for a good M has to start somewhere
Posted By: Sotto

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 09:09 PM

"So I said are you seeing someone? Or are you talking to her again"

...and what was his answer?
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 09:20 PM

He said are you kidding? I said no it's a legitimate question given the way you are acting and hiding your phone. He said No way. I'm just stressed
Posted By: sandi2

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 09:30 PM

Quote:
He said are you kidding? I said no it's a legitimate question given the way you are acting and hiding your phone. He said No way. I'm just stressed


You stated that question really well. But the reason he gives you for hiding his phone.......is too lame.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 09:34 PM

He's just full of excuses
Posted By: JCred

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 11:28 PM

Hi TO.. Gutsy move to post on my thread.... wink
I'm so glad you did..(thanks for knocking first) That meant a lot to me.

Did you notice how when you gave him the one word answer of "okay" when he told you he was getting rid of his truck that you got him thinking what is up with her. This then caused him to bring up a relationship talk didn't it..

That's what I have been saying.. Be more quiet, in your own world, if he talks, be polite, short answers that get right to the point, then shut up and go back to whatever you were doing... Great job..

Quote:
He had sent me a text saying he was getting rid of his truck. I just replied with okay. Later last night while he was on the couch he said that's it's really nice that I don't even care he's getting rid of his truck. I asked him why he thought that? He said because all you said was okay. You didn't say anything else like it doesn't even matter.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/14/15 11:57 PM

Wish me luck. Walking to counseling from work now. Well running. I have 2 minutes. Darn those late admissions!
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 12:11 AM

I'm sitting in the waiting room about to lose it. H is here. Didn't sau a word to me. Do I STFU during C and let him talk??
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 12:28 AM

Originally Posted By: T0324
I'm sitting in the waiting room about to lose it. H is here. Didn't sau a word to me. Do I STFU during C and let him talk??


Hey, this is just off the top of my head, okay?

But what's there to lose, by listening? See it as a reconnaissance mission, in which you are seeking as much information as possible.

At this point, I can't see any harm in you doing that. IF you NEED to tell him off,

Why make that today's task?

You really can tell him off, later. BUT you can't take it back later...

If you are pressed for answers from him (unlikely I'd think)

you can answer how you FEEL, and stress the sad parts, way more than the anger piece. I see No benefit to you showing him your anger.

If you want to act as if you have had that big awakening ("oh, H, No problem, WE will all be fine, thanks!"--) then go for it!

I mean sure I can see doing that. If you want to be authentic but also effective,

I'd either wait to PROCESS all that he's telling you (a legitimately time consuming exercise!!)

AND OR express "disappointment" that he still seems unable to

see your family and marriage, as the loving people/entity that you all are. (Believe that and let it radiate from within. Truly!)


If true, then at some point, you can make it clear

that you need to move forward in your "journey", to create the fulfilling life you and your children deserve...

Let him see what you see in the big picture... Meaning, that you actually pity him, b/c you know that it won't be long til his life alone or with nobodies, reveals itself to be a hollow existence.

Contrasting that^^ with what you are creating for you and yours...

It speaks for itself.


(((( ))))
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 02:56 AM

What's shakin', sista?

Give us the skinny.

Thinking of you. HARD.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 03:07 AM

Sorry! Literally just walking in the door after leaving at 5 this morning. I am whooped

H was there. I will write a more in depth summary tomorrow but he didn't mention D. Basically he feels since I told him months ago his debt is his debt that he has shut me out and will figure it out alone and now has been resenting me and angry for that. Even though I have told him I would help him recently he just can't wrap his head around that. He has an appt for IC Monday and we have one together Thursday.

He did say he doesn't know what he needs to be happy and he's tryig to figure that out. He admitted he's very depressed and trying to make things better the way he knows how. He asked the counselor several time what are your suggestions. What do you think I should do.

C told H ... I know you think she's the reason your unhappy but she's not. I know you can be happy with her but you have to be united not against each other.

He told H I need access to the phone now and whenever I want and no more sleeping on the couch.

He agrees with H going back to the old job under stipulations... Access to his phone, on my phone bill, I can go by whenever unannounced, no R with any of XOW family or XOW. Strictly business only. H agreed. More on all that later

I have to say I'm not jumping for joy. Not convinced but definitely way different than I thought. I REALLY expected another BD. And who knows I may get one but I didn't get one tonight.

Oh and go me I didn't cry! Lol I didn't react out of anger and C complimented me on how well I articulate things and that its great that I don't react to H negatively but said I can't sweep it. Under the rug

Thank you all for your support
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 03:16 AM

Get some much-deserved rest, girl.

I will reserve my comments from the peanut-gallery until you're able to give a full summary tomorrow. I'm glad, though, it wasn't what you anticipated. I try to tell my older daughters all the time that anticipation is usually FAR worse than reality. wink

Sleep well.
Posted By: JCred

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 03:18 AM

Actually sounds positive..

Are you ok with him going back to the other job if you have all he promised? Looks like it could be a good compromise. Since the ex OW is getting married she may not be an issue...
Posted By: gan

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 03:29 AM

Sounds pretty positive so far, T0! It's great that your MC said those things to him.

Now take care of T0 for a bit!
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 03:29 AM

Ugh I had a huge response typed and my phone froze!

Train - I appreciate you thinking of me, it means a lot to me. Along with everyone else too!

Justin - I'm not sure. I really don't know. Like I said I am in protect myself mode. Very apprehensive of H.

I might be okay with it if the stipulations are maintained. It being temporary and being at night with no communication with anyone unless with Ex boss for business related issues only.

His agreement with C was the job is temporary, a few nights a week, no contact with the XOW or her stepmom, I can come by anytime unannounced, I have access to the phone whenever

The C agreed it [censored] and it's not ideal but he sees it as a potential positive. H can make more money and feel financially secure, he gets to be the male provider. He thinks it will take a ton of stress of H which in turn will improve our R.
Posted By: Maybell

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 03:38 AM

I hope it plays out that way, T, but I worry that you will find yourself sliding along a la twinmom and then you'll have a new heap to deal with. Keep your eye on the prize, and that prize is the good strong woman who called him on his BS over the summer.

Sending you warm fuzzies with a tequila chaser. smile
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 04:23 PM

Thanks Maybell smile
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 04:54 PM

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Originally Posted By: T0324
I'm sitting in the waiting room about to lose it. H is here. Didn't sau a word to me. Do I STFU during C and let him talk??


Hey, this is just off the top of my head, okay?

But what's there to lose, by listening? See it as a reconnaissance mission, in which you are seeking as much information as possible.

At this point, I can't see any harm in you doing that. IF you NEED to tell him off,

Why make that today's task?

You really can tell him off, later. BUT you can't take it back later...

If you are pressed for answers from him (unlikely I'd think)

you can answer how you FEEL, and stress the sad parts, way more than the anger piece. I see No benefit to you showing him your anger.

If you want to act as if you have had that big awakening ("oh, H, No problem, WE will all be fine, thanks!"--) then go for it!

I mean sure I can see doing that. If you want to be authentic but also effective,

I'd either wait to PROCESS all that he's telling you (a legitimately time consuming exercise!!)

AND OR express "disappointment" that he still seems unable to

see your family and marriage, as the loving people/entity that you all are. (Believe that and let it radiate from within. Truly!)


If true, then at some point, you can make it clear

that you need to move forward in your "journey", to create the fulfilling life you and your children deserve...

Let him see what you see in the big picture... Meaning, that you actually pity him, b/c you know that it won't be long til his life alone or with nobodies, reveals itself to be a hollow existence.

Contrasting that^^ with what you are creating for you and yours...

It speaks for itself.


(((( ))))


Thank you - and that's what I did. When we first walked in the C said so I know you're not here just to drop by and say hi ... So what's been going on and he looked at me and I stayed quiet to let H start it off. I let him lead everything. I didn't cut him off like I had before BD. I didn't argue, I wasnt mean. The C said he can feel my anger -- he told H he knows I am not an angry person but that I am angry because H is/has hurt me

I figured I have plenty of time to let him have it IF things go sour... But I don't have any intention to add fuel to the fire. I am trying to learn the best way to communicate with my H to meet my needs/wants. From what I KNOW already - that is not by lashing out of even being pushy
Posted By: sandi2

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 05:45 PM

Quote:
From what I KNOW already - that is not by lashing out of even being pushy


And if you are anything like me, that is very hard to do. I have to wait FOREVER before my H can finally spit a few words out of his mouth.

Good job! Be proud of yourself.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 08:14 PM

Yes it is super difficult but the more I do it the easier it has been

Thanks Sandi
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
From what I KNOW already - that is not by lashing out of even being pushy


And if you are anything like me, that is very hard to do. I have to wait FOREVER before my H can finally spit a few words out of his mouth.

Good job! Be proud of yourself.



AMEN!

There were times I felt so tempted to blurt out something "important", but held my tongue. And I've never regretted it (yet!). There are times that silence is golden and there are times that silence is the most loving thing to Not say...

But gosh it's hard. Like, Mother Teresa hard....

Congrats to you, T0.

(Sandi,)


I want to give you my condolences about your mom, but don't know if there's a thread for that. If not, then w/T0's permission, I'll briefly hijack to tell you this:

I'm so sorry for your loss. The loss of a mother is among the hardest losses to face. I ache for you.

Sandi, you are a mother of d's as am I. You seemed to believe your mom felt shame or disappointment in you. It's one thing for us to see our children make choices we know won't end well, and a totally different thing to feel "Shame" because of them.

Based on your MANY posts here and all the help you provide, and what You have said about your family of origin and your own relationship with your d, I feel safe to say, There's no way your mom held anything against you; she was your biggest fan in the bleachers.

She loved you through all that and she loves you still, even now. Because love never dies.

May you find comfort in the knowledge that you will someday see her again,

and that your mother now rests in the arms of a loving God.

((( )))


T0, sorry for the hijack!



Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 08:36 PM

25 don't apologize ..

Sandi - I am so sorry to hear about your mother, I had no idea. Sending you as many hugs as you need during your grieving process. We are all so lucky to have you here and your knowledge is priceless. I am thinking of you
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 09:54 PM

Deepest condolences, sandi. So sorry for your loss.

And beautifully said, 25.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/15/15 10:44 PM

So H slept in our room last night, phone was left out on the nightstand.

Haven't heard from him all day which isn't unusual for the last few weeks. The C told us that we needed to talk last night or tonight. I asked him last night if he wanted to grab a drink and talk on the way home from C. He said he would rather not. He was tired and had a long day so we came home and he went right to bed.

Not really sure if I'm going to bring up talking again like the C suggested. He knows where to find me. I don't want to pursue too much or push him but at the same time next Thursday for C is quite a bit away to discuss nothing.

He goes to IC Monday. I am proud of him for that. It is quite sad that I am always thinking negatively though. I think it's a defense mechanism. I believe he's going to IC to set up another BD for our MC session Thursday.

Mind reading I know.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 12:04 AM

Just looking for advice on how to approach the issue of him not texting me at all. We don't talk at all lately... Do I reach out and try to talk or just be silent and let him do his own thing?

Also he used to be home from work by 6-630 and if he was going to be late he would call me. He comes home around 8 now with no heads up.

I'm just not sure how I should be handling this
Posted By: JCred

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 12:57 AM

Quote:
Just looking for advice on how to approach the issue of him not texting me at all. We don't talk at all lately... Do I reach out and try to talk or just be silent and let him do his own thing?


I think things are looking good.
Let me use an analogy I have heard that I thought was good.

Do this...(actually do this exercise while you read this..)

Take your forefinger from each hand and raise them up in front of you. Put them touching together. Ok. One of them is you and one of them is him. When they both are touching that symbolizes where the center of the relationship is. Things are good. Both giving and receiving and working together...

Now let's say he is the finger on your right hand and you are the finger on your left hand...

Keep your left finger (you) exactly where it is and move your right finger (him) about 3 inches to the right farther away from your left finger (you)(keep your left finger in center where you started which is the center of the relationship.

Now if you move your left finger (you and the center of the relationship) over to the right finger (him) and touch them together again something has happened.

To get a little space again the right finger (him) has to move away even more to get some space. Now look how far from the original center of the relationship both fingers are. How do you get back to center this way? If you keep moving toward him he keeps moving further away from center and so do you.

Now go back with both fingers together and start over.
Move the right finger away again and leave you in the middle.

Now instead of moving the left finger (you) toward the right finger (him) move it the opposite way about the same distance from center as he is. Both fingers should be about 3 inches from the center, which is the center of the relationship.

Now to move back to center what needs to happen?
Both of you need to move back toward each other.

He can't get back to center unless he moves toward you.

When he moves back to center, you move back to center.....

Get it?

Move away right now just about the same amount he is moved away and wait. Wait for him to move back to center. Then you can move back.

I think he needs some space here. I suggest you give him just the amount of space as you feel he is from center...

Where do you think his finger is right now? (and don't tell me he is giving you the middle finger.) grin

Be in tune. Observe. Wait if necessary until he moves his finger back toward you. If he only moves it 1 inch back toward center. Move yours 1 inch......

You do not have to leave the relationship. (cut your finger off) Just be silent like he is being and wait for him to talk about something. He will. We just don't know exactly when. Wait it out for now. Just slightly quiet.

Hope this helps...
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:04 AM

It does help

But it's hard to know we have things we need to discuss... Is he back at ex boss, is he there this week? Why is he late? Is he at his current job or ex boss's or somewhere else?

I'm fine with not talking to him at all during the day. Although I do miss his daily good morning I love you how's your day texts.

It's just I feel like at some point we need to address some stuff. Basically I just want to know if he's at ex boss's.

I'm going to try to continue to STFU

Onward!
Posted By: JCred

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:20 AM

I hear you and feel for you.
I want more than anything to tell you to go ahead and talk to him. I feel for you and think you are one fantastic woman. I really do.

I still remember you saying that you just wanted to be everything for him. My wife told me that once and I never forgot. It really hit me that she WAS ALL IN.. Heart, mind and soul...

I get quiet sometimes. She is a bright woman. Very in tune with me. Loves to make me happy. Just like you do your huband.
If I get quiet sometimes she wonders if she did something to make me mad. (I get quiet when I am mad too)(how's that for putting her under pressure to know what to do?)

She just moves back SLIGHTLY and does her own thing. It is amazing how I will then say something....THEN she will say..
You seemed quiet and lets me answer..

It wasn't you honey.(I have had to learn to tell her that so that she doesn't feel like it was her fault) I just am tired.. (heard that one T?)

She has STUDIED me to be in tune.. Figure him out. Figure out what works. Get in tune.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:57 AM

Thanks..

I really don't know what works right now. He's said himself when I push it makes him feel like I'm
Nagging. However now that I've backed off he hasn't moved in my direction. I get a forced peck on the lips and a goodnight I love you and he's off to bed by 9. Which before he was sleeping on the couch staying up all night. Neither of us has initiated sex in 2 weeks (a long time for us) I was the one who tried last time and was told he was too tired.

I haven't tried since.

Part of me wonders if I should pursue and just send him a I hope you're having a good day text and the other part of me just wants to go back to what I did over the summer of ignore and GAL without him. The big difference is we're living under the same roof now.

It's just so confusing. Me backing off for the last 2 weeks hasn't brought him any closer. But me telling him what I needed didn't either.

He did say toMC last night that it bothers him that everyday he comes home he gives me a kiss and asks about my day (on the days I'm home) and that the days I work I never kiss him I just say hello and 'walk right by him'

I have no excuse for that.
Posted By: Rick1963

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 02:03 AM

TO , Mr incredible aka Jcred is obsessed with you. Please be careful. A 60 y/o man who is happily married and has no need to be here to save a marriage concerns me. He is perfect....Just my 2 cents.
Posted By: JCred

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 02:05 AM

Quote:
Part of me wonders if I should pursue and just send him a I hope you're having a good day text

t
I don't think that would hurt. Go ahead and just monitor the results.
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 03:11 AM

T0,

I think texting H a "good morning" or "have a great day" message is perfectly fine and even a good idea. If you have no expectations about it - as in, you won't fall to pieces if he doesn't reciprocate - then this practice (once in a while, especially while H is home and not, to your knowledge, in an active A) is a good-faith effort on your part to be friendly (albeit a tad more-than-neighborly) even when you're getting the cold shoulder. It also is an ACTION that will be good practice for YOU to bust through your own awkward feelings and to try to stay light and breezy toward H. In other words, it'll help keep you from showing your true negative feelings. Grace under fire. Again. wink

Like JCred said: maybe try it for a couple weeks and monitor results. If it doesn't help after you are consistent, switch it up.

Meanwhile, sweet girl, what are you doing for YOU? If your H isn't telling you his whereabouts and is coming home whenever, you really need to get out of the house some yourself. I know your work schedule is brutal. But a night out should be on tap really, really soon. A walk. A new outfit. Some new make-up. A new body spray/perfume. Don't you need a manicure or something? A new hair-cut or color? Some new lingerie that you - whoops - accidentally walk out of the bathroom in (in front of H) after a long, hot shower and a spray of that new fragrance??

Please go get your groove back. For YOU. Those changes are supposed to be forever. Forever. Not just to win back H. And you KNOW how much better you'll start feeling about yourself. It will help so much. This isn't to get back at H or to make him take notice. This is to help YOU. And usually? He's gonna notice. But that's an unintended "benefit."
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 03:25 AM

Basically - and even though we have a bad taste in our mouths about OW - I'm suggesting that in your mind, you become sorta an "OW" to H: Seductive but not available. Confident. Your best you. Flirty at times. But unavailable. Mysterious. And did I mention largely unavailable?? wink

Wonka gave me that advice once when H was still in an active A: "Be the OW to the OW." And, wowza! It WORKED! My H couldn't keep his chin off the floor. But it's because I was happy, friendly, light, breezy, seductive - but not for HIM!! In fact, I was unavailable to him. This is what H said "did it" for him.

Reclaim that beautiful girl power. I know your H may not be in an A again. But THOSE sorts of rules are the same. If you can, re-read (or at least thoroughly skim) DR with a pair of "non-A-tainted" eyeballs. MWD's advice is MOSTLY for people in a sitch like yours NOW (no A). At the top of her list: no R talks. Now is NOT the time for discussions, IMO. Your M is simply too fragile. And H is pulling away.

No R talks. If you are thinking of YOU right now, then there's nothing H has that you're depending on to move forward in life. Nothing to be discussed right now. Don't drag yourself down with that stuff. Not right now.

Okay. That's all I got for now. xo
Posted By: claire7

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 03:27 AM

^^Train is on the money!

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this T0. Your H sounds like he is in a bad place. But you can get your mojo back!
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 03:45 AM

Train - done and done!!!

I actually am meeting a girlfriend after dropping S at school. She is doing my hair at her salon later in the day (I usually go once a month so it's not anything new) and we are working out. We are starting some fad shake diet (eh whatever I'll give it 30 days)

Saturday night I am having a girls night with all my girlfriends from high school. I've made child care arrangements in the event H is unavailable. Planning on just saying I'm going out with friends and leaving it at that - in a new outfit and heels of course wink

I remember what worked over summer - I remember what he told me worked -- seeing me dolled up wondering where i was going. I do have to play my cards a tad different because I don't want him to think I am playing games or make him feel like there is OM. So I have play my cards very carefully. I don't want to push him away I want to bring him closer so I'm trying to figure out how to perfect that tactic.

I almost feel that he is so distanced and far away that he won't really care that im going out or will be mad. Before BD last year I would go out once a month with girlfriends. During Bd he told me how much he hated when I did that. That he felt it was irresponsible for me to be out drinking with all single women and hanging out downtown until 1 am and then driving my long commute home.

Saturday will be dinner and drinks at a local beach bar after. Probably not too late. Maybe that will be a fair balance.

And geez sorry to be tmi but when can we have sex again?!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:14 AM

Originally Posted By: T0324
Train - done and done!!!

I actually am meeting a girlfriend after dropping S at school. She is doing my hair at her salon later in the day (I usually go once a month so it's not anything new) and we are working out. We are starting some fad shake diet (eh whatever I'll give it 30 days)

30 days? Yikes, You're a better woman than me. But I remember the days when a "diet" lasted a few weeks and then Poof! We were all done and had lost weight...yeah, not as easy these days.

ANYHOW, moving on...I LOVE that you are GAL with your friends (and below) you are bonding with high school peeps, VERY COOL!!


Saturday night I am having a girls night with all my girlfriends from high school. I've made child care arrangements in the event H is unavailable. Planning on just saying I'm going out with friends and leaving it at that - in a new outfit and heels of course wink



First, I just want to mention that it's important NOT to overlook the positives...

his keeping the phone OUT and in view And being IN the bed...you know, baby steps, small victories, "applaud the 1% of positives" etc...

Okay so, I'd assume he's "not available" and be pleasantly surprised if he is AND if he volunteers to watch the kids.

You could say nothing to him, OR you could try "h, just so you know, I'm going out Sat night and {sitter name} said she can watch the kids, but did you want to, or is it alright that she watches them?"

Btw, does he have any friends in the area, you know, male friends he can play poker with or hike, or do his manly stuff with? I hope so b/c the whole dependence thing (e.g. your family is his main support, AND the only people he knows are at "work"...) is not good for either of you.

But if he does, it might be nice for him to find OTHER folks or types, for his guy time...


I remember what worked over summer - I remember what he told me worked -- seeing me dolled up wondering where i was going. I do have to play my cards a tad different because I don't want him to think I am playing games

makes sense, but you know this^^ so I think you'll play it right


or make him feel like there is OM.


Um, no, I'm SO NOT worried about him thinking there's an OM. T0, he's NOT going to believe that, but if, by some chance he did, so what?

What would that mean?

-That he could lose you? Oh, gee, that's terrible...oh wait, no it's not. It's fine.

Is your real fear that he'd believe there was an OM (or pretend he believed that) AND then use that as his excuse for dating?

B/C that's a real stretch.

No, I'm not saying "he'd never!" He MIGHT have or want to have an OW. But it would NOT be "because" you had an OM!!

While he may use that belief (there's an OM) as a pretext for doing goofy things on his own, that's no reason to "fear" his believing a lie.

And in the event that he really believed YOU had an OM, he'd FEAR losing you...

but what he'd do about that, remains to be seen.


So I have play my cards very carefully.

I don't want to push him away


I get this^^. I mean, the playing cards carefully Makes sense, except, HOW would it "push him away" to see you GAL?

T0, Don't talk yourself into inertia or paralyze yourself into inaction b/c of fears.


I want to bring him closer so I'm trying to figure out how to perfect that tactic.


Not to deal too much in semantics, but maybe "perfecting that tactic" is NOT the way to go about this.

What about authentically doing a GAL activity w/a PMA and a bit of mystery, and letting the cards fall where they will?

HIS reaction or renewed interest in you may be a byproduct of your GAL< but it cannot be the goal of it.

Your GAL may seem tactical but if it really is indeed a "tactic", it tends to be revealed and seen as manipulative.

I know that's not your intent, but try harder to NOT attach expectations to what you are doing. This "GAL" is for your welfare, not his.

if it benefits the M, great! But if it only benefits you, that's fine too.

Make sense?

I almost feel that he is so distanced and far away that he won't really care that im going out or will be mad. Before BD last year I would go out once a month with girlfriends. During Bd he told me how much he hated when I did that. That he felt it was irresponsible for me to be out drinking with all single women and hanging out downtown until 1 am and then driving my long commute home.

The concerns he SAYS ^^were his, sound legit. It's good that you are addressing them (i.e. not too much booze, not too late, etc) while also maintaing your independence and "privacy".

I'm not sure I buy that those were his reasons or at least not all of them.



Saturday will be dinner and drinks at a local beach bar after. Probably not too late. Maybe that will be a fair balance.

And geez sorry to be tmi but when can we have sex again?
!


Ahem...(I love that question. It's a bad sign when you don't care about it!)

So, why not just quote my DB coach and let you decide for yourself?

SHE SAID (and I quote):

"that's an intensely personal, private question. It deals with us at our most vulnerable and intimate levels.
Some couples increase or maintain their closeness by being physical, others cannot be physical until they increase their closeness...but it remains a choice each person must make for his or herself.

Don't let anyone (including me) make that choice for you."


Good luck!
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:17 AM

Awwwwww he1l! T's done got her groove back! grin

Weird - wouldn't you say? - that H says he didn't approve of you dolling-up and going out with friends pre-BD ... but that's exactly what built your confidence later and - ummm - re-attracted him to you. He probably didn't like you doing that because HE was (obviously) the one with a wandering eye. Tsk, tsk. That danged projecting guilty conscience. And, hey, you know, if he had "TIME" to take his W on a date, then you'd be dolling up for HIM. That knife cuts both ways.

I like the way you sound here, baby. I like it a.lot. A lot lot!

Sex? That's a personal decision. (And - puhleeze - certainly not TMI for me or these M-related boards; sex is a fundamental, necessary, CRUCIAL part of M.) I'm not going to advise you on that one, though. Someone more convicted in their stance might come along to do it. IF there are no indications of an A, and IF H initiates it (because don't be surprised if he does after you've shown CONSISTENTLY that you are moving along with your life and would LOVE for him to go on the ride with you ... but won't stay at home, holding your breath, for him to do so ...), all I can say is that if it were me, I'd jump on it in a New York minute. But with no expectations. It'd be for ME. And it'd give me one more mutually-beneficial opportunity to show him what he's missing. (And I'd make dang sure it's mutually-beneficial. Sorry not sorry.) Women usually have sex AFTER a man has met her emotional needs of affection and intimate conversation; that's because we tend to equate sex with love/emotion. THAT, IMO, is where you need to watch it. Men have sex because they have a physical need - NEED - for it. So most times, it's the woman who would walk away from sex feeling empty and used if the man she just had sex with hadn't fulfilled her needs ... or doesn't fulfill them later. In your case? That man is your H. And you're already emotionally invested. Drop your expectations, and what do you really stand to lose? PLEASE make sure before you would do it that H is absolutely NOT involved in an A. You CAN find this out if you want to. If this is about you - and it IS - then protect your health FIRST AND FOREMOST. You know this. (Crap, I had another REALLY relevant point to make here that addressed something you wrote, and I just blanked ... twice. I'll re-read your post and see if it doesn't pop back into my brain.)

Again, think of yourself as the OW. She is not always available. (I know that's hard while you're living with him.) She doesn't talk about responsibilities or depressing things. She winks. She flirts. She strokes his ego. (I'm not saying you need to go THAT far right now, but you're getting the picture, right?) His attention on her makes her pay attention to HERSELF. She feels sexy. Wanted.

Here's the challenge: H ain't makin' you feel that way right now. So the challenge, my dear, is YOURS. Make YOURSELF feel that way.

How empowering is that?!? And how powerful that you can pull that out in YOURSELF (when it took a man to pull it out of OW.) You don't need a man! You're comfortable in your own d@mn skin! You know you're amazing. You know you're strong. You know you're capable. You know you're a professional. Honey, you're the total package. You'd knock the socks off ANY man. And deep down? You KNOW it.

Now go ACT like it.

Woohoo! I'm so happy right now! I just love to hear the fire in you, T. You're coming back!
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:26 AM

30 days sounds easy now ... As I plan on eating and drinking this weekend like it's my last supper!!

He really has no guy friends that he goes out with. Ex boss, his wife and our old circle of friends were all the couples we went out with. The ladies would go out for girls nights and the guys would have guys nights. We are not apart of that circle anymore. It was both of our choices to cut those people out of our lives in August. H actually suggested it. By no means would we be rude if we ran into anyone but I haven't communicated with any of them since August. I wish he would make a BFF. I would love him to have some guy time away from just family time.


I think his 'concerns' were that he was just over me at that time. I was annoying to him. He was talking with OW during a few of those months so I'm pretty sure everything I did bothered him.

The only reason I bring up OM is because after he came back he told me maybe I should leave him for someone for 6 months so that we can be even. That he deserved to feel the way he made me feel. Yes I know, totally irrational and immature. I squashed that thought process

Thank you for putting GAL in perspective. It is for me and should benefit me first and foremost. You are right in that I am acting on fear, walking on eggshells and while I want to believe I'm behaving as if.. I'm sure it radiates from me a little bit.

Here's to hoping this weekend will bring us both some clarity and maybe closer. I will be sending a text tomorrow with no expectations (I keep telling myself that) and see. I always remember Woundedfool telling me to experiment and monitor results. so if it doesn't work I can switch it up.
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:28 AM

Doh! Just remembered my lost thought ...

You mention that H may see your new-and-improved attitude and suspect something or be mad ...

Yeah. That's a good point. Except you're going to be being friendly/a-little-more-than-neighborly to him (for now). That's where those random, sporadic, every-once-in-a-while, no-expectations-attached texts come in.

He's obviously going to question your motives at first. That's ok. This really isn't supposed to be about him. And THAT is where your CONSISTENCY comes into play. You can't drop this "new T" if H comes back around. (You've now learned this the hard way.) Find what's genuine and authentic to you ... the T you need to be for YOU, whether you're M to him or not. You are the cake. He is the frosting.

Also consider: We're not wired like men. We analyze and over-think and over-talk and over-worry. He's driven a lot by desire and impulse and competition. And his penis. So if you walk out of a bathroom with a new 'do and with - whoops - new lingerie ... and smelling like a million dollars ... and smiling and happy and FUN ... I seriously doubt he's going to spend much time trying to figure out your motives.

I'm no man - maybe another could weigh in here on that. But that's just my .02.

But here's the thing: please try to remember this is all for YOU ... to boost YOUR PMA. To make YOU feel better about YOU. Watch pouty-H take one glimpse at you and then rumble-grumble at you going out. That one glimpse is where it's at. That's YOUR money-shot. Forget the rumble-grumble. And go ye forth and be bada$s. And have a GREAT time with your girls!
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:32 AM

Train - we posted at the same time.

So glad I can make you happy! Haha wink

So for me I feel like I am the man when it comes to sex - it can just be physical for me. He doesn't need to be meeting my needs entirely. If it were up to me we would still be having sex (as long as no A) during all of this. It makes me feel close to him without needing to pursue anything further from him if that makes sense. He on the other hand can't have sex if he's mad. He's like the woman! Lol

I have not brought up any depressing talks or R talks (I mean besides C last night)

I am going to keep it light and be busy. Saturday I am going to take the boys off again during the day and let him invite himself if he wants but I won't be offering. All I have to say is he better be home Saturday night to see me leave!

I am so thankful for all of you. I look forward to 'hearing' from you. smile
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:33 AM

Just read 25's post. Holy bananas! I'm feeling some synergy on this thread tonight! laugh laugh laugh
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:35 AM

Yeah, we DID post at the same time, T. And 25 and I posted at the same time a little earlier. And then I re-discovered my "lost thought" and almost "lost" your reply back. Synergy, baby, synergy.

Synergy and energy. Woop woop. You got this, lil' mama.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:39 AM

I do... And if I don't well then at least the party I have next Friday night will be full of young, attractive, mostly single physicians

And since we work in a children's hospital at least I know they like kids!

Haha totally joking - well not about the party, but about the latter.

Since you all are used to me being a blubbering baby or only talk about H you should know I am quite sarcastic and usually the one making everyone laugh and I try to make the most uncomfortable person comfortable. It's just my thing wink

I couldn't even attempt to do this without you all. My grandma told me tonight she is so amazed at how much I have let go of reacting. She told me she can't believe the night I was a mess I was able to say nothing about it to H. She told me she's learning from me everyday on ways to better her own Relationships. And she is one schooled woman!
Posted By: paul19510

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 04:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Train
Doh! Just remembered my lost thought ...

You mention that H may see your new-and-improved attitude and suspect something or be mad ...

Yeah. That's a good point. Except you're going to be being friendly/a-little-more-than-neighborly to him (for now). That's where those random, sporadic, every-once-in-a-while, no-expectations-attached texts come in.

He's obviously going to question your motives at first. That's ok. This really isn't supposed to be about him. And THAT is where your CONSISTENCY comes into play. You can't drop this "new T" if H comes back around. (You've now learned this the hard way.) Find what's genuine and authentic to you ... the T you need to be for YOU, whether you're M to him or not. You are the cake. He is the frosting.

Also consider: We're not wired like men. We analyze and over-think and over-talk and over-worry. He's driven a lot by desire and impulse and competition. And his penis. So if you walk out of a bathroom with a new 'do and with - whoops - new lingerie ... and smelling like a million dollars ... and smiling and happy and FUN ... I seriously doubt he's going to spend much time trying to figure out your motives.

I'm no man - maybe another could weigh in here on that. But that's just my .02.

But here's the thing: please try to remember this is all for YOU ... to boost YOUR PMA. To make YOU feel better about YOU. Watch pouty-H take one glimpse at you and then rumble-grumble at you going out. That one glimpse is where it's at. That's YOUR money-shot. Forget the rumble-grumble. And go ye forth and be bada$s. And have a GREAT time with your girls!


Just weighing in with a man's POV. I really like that you are making changes for you and going out to enjoy time with friends. Be inviting with H too. The idea of seeing you enjoy your life and that you hope he'll be a part of that life too (but you still going out to enjoy yourself with friend in the meantime).

I would simply caution that men are not as driven or motivated by sec as you might think (implied somewhat above). We tend to seek out closeness and sex helps us do that with our mate. The cosmic irony is that it appears that females are wired the opposite. They also seek closeness but seek that emotional closeness BEFORE enjoying sexton with their mate. Notice I left the word NEED out of each version. I think the happier couples learn to compromise and meet each other along the way....a good H should pay more attention to his W emotional needs to get more fulfilling sexton and a good W should perhaps display a bit more carnality With her H . My 2 cents. Good luck and have fun!!
Posted By: paul19510

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 05:00 AM

Darn auto correct. Sexton= sex
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 05:31 AM

Great POV, paul. (FTR, I promise I wasn't trying to generalize or stereotype). But now that a man is "on the line," a question: do you think a wayward H - or one who is not showing signs of commitment - is thinking about sex or sexual-attraction in the same way as a man in a committed R (or one who WISHES to be in one)? Speaking in generalizations only, do you think a wayward H views sex the same as the way you're describing above? As a way to feel connected?

T, not trying to change the subject AT ALL from your life. I think this could actually be quite relevant ...
Posted By: Cadet

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324

But it's hard to know we have things we need to discuss... Is he back at ex boss, is he there this week? Why is he late? Is he at his current job or ex boss's or somewhere else?


It's just I feel like at some point we need to address some stuff.
Basically I just want to know if he's at ex boss's.

I'm going to try to continue to STFU

Onward!

I am confused WHY you NEED to know?

I think that you don't need to know,
you NEED to let go of that NEED to know mentality.
That will greatly help with you detachment.

My .02
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:22 PM

I don't NEED to know. I want to

It was and is still a huge issue. If he can't even tell me where he is - meaning being there at night then I feel it's a problem. I have never cared where he was before because I trusted him. However him going back into the lions den I would like to know.

I think he doesn't tell me because he is afraid to. The same reason why he sends me texts about important conversations because he wants to avoid confrontation
Posted By: Cadet

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324

It was and is still a huge issue.
If he can't even tell me where he is - meaning being there at night then I feel it's a problem.
I have never cared where he was before because I trusted him. However him going back into the lions den I would like to know.

I think he doesn't tell me because he is afraid to. The same reason why he sends me texts about important conversations because he wants to avoid confrontation

You understand that these are all EXPECTATIONS ^^^^^

I agree why should you trust him?

Trust is earned and you should judge him by his actions not his words.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:41 PM

His actions show he doesn't deserve my trust.

However - applauding the 1% would include he is sleeping next to me and leaving his phone out.

I am working on letting it go. It suks... It's really difficult to think he's there at night in a place like that with all the bad memories.

I could always drive by and get my answer but I don't want to turn into that person.

So just let it go, don't bring it up and carry on, right?

I was thinking of sending my experimental text- hey H, hope you have a good day.
Posted By: Cadet

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324
I was thinking of sending my experimental text- hey H, hope you have a good day.

As long as you know that it is pursuit.
You can do it without expectations.
And realize that no single thing is going to make or break your marriage.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 01:56 PM

Yes it is pursuit ...

I have tried backing off and it hasn't changed a thing. I was just going to try this for a week or two and see if it made a difference.

I'm really at a loss for what to do. I thought maybe if I sent the text and then GAL without H. Who knows? I don't know what he wants - heIl he doesn't even know what he wants lol
Posted By: Cadet

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 02:05 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324
Yes it is pursuit ...

I have tried backing off and it hasn't changed a thing. I was just going to try this for a week or two and see if it made a difference.

I'm really at a loss for what to do. I thought maybe if I sent the text and then GAL without H. Who knows? I don't know what he wants - heIl he doesn't even know what he wants lol

MHO is when you dont know what to do the best thing is to do nothing.
Sit quietly and the answers will come to you.

DB101 is patience.

You are only 28 years old.

Whats is your hurry?
Posted By: sandi2

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 02:49 PM

Thank you so much for that 25, and the rest of you. Your words are very comforting, and I needed it. You are right, of course, she wasn't ashamed of me. I was mostly speaking out of my own regret. Being the firstborn child, I wanted to always make my parents proud. She was so shocked (and quite concerned) when she found out about OM, but she did not fail to let me know she still loved me very much. We were very close, and I already miss her so much. I am so blessed to have had her.

Thank you all.
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 02:55 PM

Fear is my hurry I guess

I'm afraid of another BD. I just want things back to how they were

I know - all wishful thinking.

Enjoying a morning out with my friend and getting my hair done. Hopefully this will help me calm down and figure out what is really best.
Posted By: Mach1

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 03:01 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324
Fear is my hurry I guess

I'm afraid of another BD. I just want things back to how they were


The irony in life, is that we typically work harder towards our fears, than away from them.....



PS....Sandi, my condolences as well. She has every reason to be proud of you : )
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 03:38 PM

Funny right ... When I fear something I continually bring it up hoping it will be resolved because of the anxiety it gets me.

I need to work on just letting things be. What will be will be regardless of the stress I place on myself, H, or anyone else.
Posted By: gogofo

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324
Funny right ... When I fear something I continually bring it up hoping it will be resolved because of the anxiety it gets me.

I need to work on just letting things be. What will be will be regardless of the stress I place on myself, H, or anyone else.


I feel you here. I have the same fear motivations and need to work on letting things be.

I am happy for the progress you are making, it is very inspiring.
Posted By: Mach1

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: T0324
Funny right ... When I fear something I continually bring it up hoping it will be resolved because of the anxiety it gets me.

I need to work on just letting things be. What will be will be regardless of the stress I place on myself, H, or anyone else.



So how do you work on that ??

How do you change that about yourself ???

What does it look like when it is changed ???
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 05:37 PM

Thanks gogofo smile

Paul - I missed your post somehow but thank you for that insight.

I always welcome everyones opinions, advice, insight etc.

If you want me to be honest - I have no clue how that looks. The only way I know to work on that is to STFU. I should focus myself on other things. For example - H going back to his old job gives me a ton of fear and anxiety, his boss owing me that amount of money gives me anxiety and fear that I won't get the money returned. So in respect to the money issue - I brought it up once a week to H asking about it. Thinking he knew more than me and just didn't want to tell me.

I from now on have left it be. After texting about it with the bookeeper I haven't mentioned it. H told me himself he and his boss were supposed to be talking about it today. So my hope is that if I leave things be H will come to me about it. That has not always been the case in the past but I just have to hope for the best. I can't change anything about either situation but I can change the way I deal with it.

Me letting go = less stress/fear/anxiety which in turn leaves me not bugging H about it which would (I would think) decrease H's stress because he's not feeling pushed by me.

Now just to figure out how to get there! C said I am very logistic and can see things through steps very well but that H can't. I want him to see things logically the way I see them and I just want a solution - H can't do that right now. We have to figure out a compromise.


I guess I should also be clear without sounding like negative nancy. I am in no way excusing any of my H's behavior. I do not believe my actions entirely lead him to behaving how he is. I contributed sure, and I could have been better but I believe eventually this would have all caught up to him no matter what. I am truly trying to be the best me. A person only a fool would leave, a person that can lead a happy life and a person that can recognize and own their faults and move forward. I hope my H will be by my side but these changes are not for him they are for me - to be a better person, mother and wife
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 05:48 PM

T0,

Hey, first things first. YOU are doing very well. You articulate how you feel, what your goals are and you DIG DEEP within yourself bravely. So for all of that, I say "kudos to T0!"

All in all, your progress is marked & palpable.



Originally Posted By: T0324
Yes it is pursuit ...

I have tried backing off and it hasn't changed a thing. I was just going to try this for a week or two and see if it made a difference.


This^^, however, made me laugh out loud. Did YOU really read your words??

Dear T0, "a week or two" is a hilariously short time...as in, NOT ENOUGH TIME...

When we try out a new behavior, especially one that's a 180 for us and it's difficult (supremely difficult to be exact), we shortchange the change. We tend to not give it nearly enough time to monitor for results.

We get far too impatient. We tell ourselves to "be more patient", but when the rubber meets the road, we need a lot of reminders. So here's a gentle reminder T0, be more patient.

I tried to give my changes 90 days before monitoring and invariably, after that time, could see some changes in how h reacted towards me or other changes in the way we interacted, were manifest.

However, lots of times I could not make 90 days before monitoring (I'd keep the change going for that long, and longer, but I often could not wait that long to "check it out").

I just think nothing short of, say, a few weeks or 30 days, at a minimum, would even be noticed by a depressive spouse (I think we can all agree that your h is depressed & stressed at the moment).

Once a depressed spouse notices the change, there will be doubts on their end about whether the change is:
A), real, or happening at all, (versus their perceptions being askew),

and

B) If there is a change in the LBS, the "WAH" has to interpret it as a change, and then processes its' meaning.

"Is she GAL BECAUSE she's moving on, and I might lose her?""

AND OR

"Is she playing some game w/me? Is this a 'tactic' and am I being manipulated?"

(I'm not listing "OM" as an option only b/c I doubt he'd sincerely believe that, other than how it's worded in A) above^^...yes he may believe he could lose you,

but him believing you have already found an OM - and are now pursuing OM, is just too much for me to believe, HE'D believe...at the moment...

(Yikes, Hope that^^ wasn't too unclear).

Anyhow, with your PMA and being authentically excited (not over the top, but just...hopeful, fun, & optimistic about it)

over an evening with friends or an event like a concert or "unknown fun" activity,

the chances of it being seen as a tactic, dwindle. And they should dwindle.

Because after all, it's Not a tactic. It's a real thing; i.e. an event you are indeed looking forward to...

So go enjoy. Btw, Having the goal of "I'll enjoy tonight!" ain't a bad way to DB.

Authentic changes in our attitudes, in ourselves, show from within.


Try harder to trust that^^, because it's true and real.


I'm really at a loss for what to do. I thought maybe if I sent the text and then GAL without H. Who knows? I don't know what he wants - heIl he doesn't even know what he wants lol


BINGO!!! ^^^^^

HE does not know!! And It shows. But are you really at a loss? I think you know what to do. You certainly have ideas and plans...You just want answers sooner and changes sooner and results sooner...

SO MAYBE - your work for today, is to work on patience and trust --as in,

TRUST THE PROCESS, b/c it IS a process, and it's NOT a Linear one.

YOU are also a work in progress, and a great one at that. cool

No matter the ultimate marital result, you are becoming a woman only a fool would leave. That's no small feat. The "pay off" is for life.

Let's hope you didn't marry a guy who was & who remains a fool.

You have changed & are still changing, so you know change is possible.


((( )))
Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 05:54 PM

Thanks 25 smile

So what is the consensus --- commit to sending the text daily or back off and say nothing??
Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 05:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Mach1
Originally Posted By: T0324
Funny right ... When I fear something I continually bring it up hoping it will be resolved because of the anxiety it gets me.

I need to work on just letting things be. What will be will be regardless of the stress I place on myself, H, or anyone else.



So how do you work on that ??

How do you change that about yourself ???

What does it look like when it is changed ???



GOOD questions^^...

Here's another one.

Have you ever thought that maybe the stress you feel about something, something bad or scary --happening, is increased b/c of the anxiety you feel about it?

As opposed to worry or fears that you think have a use, or a function, i.e. to lessen the risks of 'X' happening,

ever wonder if the fears and anxieties themselves, can cause it to happen? Obvious ones are the self fulfilling prophecies...and similar situations.

Example-- Think of a jealous insecure boyfriend who constantly fears that his gf will cheat on him, and says so, maybe with that "nice, humble guy" at work...

So the boyfriend ultimately makes a jerk of himself, by snooping and or trying to control his gf, by making snarky remarks

to sow doubt in her and to undermine her self confidence ("So she won't take me for granted/be grateful for ME"....???) However,

By treating her badly, he is effectively pushing her into the arms of OM

but then he might say "See? I was right. She was cheating all this time!"

My point is just that, worry can be wasteful and worse; it can be counter productive. Useless worry is worse than useless, which is semi neutral.


Sometimes OUR FEAR of something, can lead us to behaving in ways that actually increase the risk of that event,

rather than usefully modifying our behavior in ways that would lessen the risks.

Make sense?

Posted By: T384

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 06:07 PM

Makes complete sense and that's who I turned into. Asking H who he was texting the last few weeks, saying you're always on your phone - and then he started sleeping with his phone in his pocket ---- see!! I knew he was up to something

He brought it up in counseling. Said that be was sick of me saying he's always on his phone , who is he talking to, etc. So he said 'you can just tell when someone is snooping, she was asking all the time, so I started putting it in my pocket because I don't want her snooping."

It was my fear and worry based on what happened before and because of HIS changed behavior. So instead of STFU I asked and it pushed him away further
Posted By: Starsky309

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 06:17 PM

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Thank you so much for that 25, and the rest of you. Your words are very comforting, and I needed it. You are right, of course, she wasn't ashamed of me. I was mostly speaking out of my own regret. Being the firstborn child, I wanted to always make my parents proud. She was so shocked (and quite concerned) when she found out about OM, but she did not fail to let me know she still loved me very much. We were very close, and I already miss her so much. I am so blessed to have had her.

Thank you all.



I'm quite certain you made her proud, Sandi. As parents, we are usually most proud not of our "perfect" children, but those who face adversity and even poor choices, and then fight with integrity to make amends and live a life of quality. Even if it ENDED with that, I'd be super proud, but to then give of yourself the way you do . . . impressive, Sandi.

I'm so sorry for your loss, Sandi. I just lost my father-in-law the day before yesterday, and he was like a "1b" to my own dad's "1a" as a father to me. It's horrible.

(((hugs))),

Starsky/Puppy/Choc
Posted By: sandi2

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 07:14 PM

Thanks Starsky. I appreciate your words very much. Sorry you are having to go through your loss, also. My H actually had my dad longer than he had his own father, so it can be very tough for the SIL. Good that you had that kind of relationship with him.
Posted By: Train

Re: T0324 part 3 - 01/16/15 08:25 PM

T0,

He brought it up in counseling. Said that be was sick of me saying he's always on his phone , who is he talking to, etc. So he said 'you can just tell when someone is snooping, she was asking all the time, so I started putting it in my pocket because I don't want her snooping."

It was my fear and worry based on what happened before and because of HIS changed behavior. So instead of STFU I asked and it pushed him away further


Specific to your H sleeping with his phone in his pocket and then pointing a finger of blame at you for "snooping": No. Don't accept that. HIS behavior, in that case, is the controlling one. Not yours. And it's script for someone who is not interested in being open, honest and transparent.

This just FLOORS me.

Forgive my rambling. You know how I roll; I think out loud (and sometimes that gets me in trouble ... lol):

The entire premise of DBing - and being here on these boards - is to really seek support to improve *ourselves* so we can become better people. I think many people come here looking for a magic bullet to save a M; I know I did when I was first here (under a different name) in 2005. But we quickly discover that the long-timers around these boards aren't here to give us a magic bullet (that could never be given anyway); instead, they put a mirror in front of our faces to help us consider and find the ways we can change/improve ourselves to be better communicators, better people and better partners.

But there's another side to that, or/but maybe I'm the only one who has struggled with this: I found myself, on several occasions the first time I was here, digging SO deep ... and being SO introspective ... that I started accepting at least partial blame for completely unacceptable things my H said or did. In other words, I was so inside my own head that I sometimes couldn't see what was right in front of my face. I allowed myself to start believing that *I* had done something wrong. I would ALWAYS find how *I* had contributed to my H's actions and behavior. (I should say: I've always been that type of person anyway: to question my responsibility in something before I start "pointing fingers" at others, so digging so deep - and having so many folks asking me what I could change in myself - maybe just kind of exacerbated that.)

At any rate, I, personally, draw a line at you accepting ANY fault or blame for supposedly pushing or pressuring your H to the point that he felt he "needed" to sleep with his cell phone in his pocket. Uhhh no. The fault wouldn't be in you being too hard on him with that. If anything, you were way too *lenient* by allowing him back into your home and life after an A without him agreeing to a comprehensive transparency plan.

On a list of what a LBS needs to begin to recover from an A, being able to openly and regularly look at his/her formerly-wayward's electronic communication - emails, text messages, browsing histories, etc. - is right up there with a no-contact letter to the XOW or XOM.

I dunno, T. I just sometimes think that some people who are newer at DBing - but trying super-hard to save their M - can sometimes accept TOO much blame. And as a result, they sometimes kinda leave their backbone at the door. And that IN NO WAY is going to help the confidence you so desperately need right now. (I'm not saying you're doing it; I just kinda want to bring it to your attention so you don't start ...) Leave FEAR at the door; keep your backbone with you at all times.

You're already being walked on by H. Don't walk on yourself too much, too. Does that make any sense? Or am I seriously the only one who's guilty of walking on myself? crazy
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