Ok so obviously I’m new to all of this, and only had a little exposure to online forums. I will try to convey my very long story as concise as possible.
I have been married for 10 years; we have been together for 15. We have 2 wonderful daughter 5 and 8.
I am an Army Vet and was deployed to Iraq 2006-2007. It was at that time that I started talking to someone online that I had met in school, before deployment. When I returned home I became involved in PA that lasted 4 months before ending. My W never knew until I admitted it this spring.
Last year my W started to get closer to her work partner as he was going through a D. I was ok with it at first then became uncomfortable after I felt there was something else going on. I was told for months that is was nothing just a best “friend”. By Nov 2013 our marriage was imploding, we started MC. I began to snoop and found she had been posting to a site called experience project. She detailed her affair and feelings about him there.
The affair ended in Feb by her work partner, and she began an online EA with someone from Australia who she fell in love with.
In the spring I found out that her affair with her partner had been physical, something she had denied. I also admitted to my affair. She refused to continue with counseling in May.
This summer things appeared to be getting better. In June I believe her online EA ended, he got back together with his wife.
By end of Aug she had met someone new online (Australian again) and entered into another EA. I challenged her on it after I found messages sent via facebook beginning of Sept. where “I love you’s” where exchanged. She has denied it and said they are only friends. They message constantly, talk, video chat etc.
Mid Oct she told me she “she has been faking it till she feels it all summer” and that “she can forgive me but can’t forgive herself for what she has said and done”. Also told me she can’t see us moving forward, because of her feelings, wants D. Told me kids should stay with me, she works 3rd shift.
After a fight at the end of Oct she filed D papers, got very upset when I got a lawyer.
She moved out of the MBR in Sept. and lives in spare room in basement. She was looking for an apartment, to move out.
I am reading DR and have Read most of DB. I started to do some DB techniques at the beginning of DEC and have seen some slight changes mainly using LRT, being polite, and expressing affirmative words where I can. Up until a month ago I have been doing all the things that people say you shouldn’t begging, pleading, crying, I love you’s, etc. I’m learning the errors of this. It was identified in MC, before it ended, that I was doing all the perusing. I’ve been reading a lot of the forums and trying my best to apply these techniques. I have read 5 LL and believe she is affirmative words, I’m quality time.
I also have been in my own counseling to deal with depression issues which she claimed as a big reason she felt the marriage was dead. I’ve had huge milestones there, and it has helped a ton. I’m looking for support and advice as to how to handle this crazy situation. I believe my marriage can be saved. Sorry this got long, but that is the basics of my story.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi Andy! So sorry to read your story. Thank you so much for your service to our country.
You are probably on what is called moderation now, meaning that your posts will be checked for awhile so they will take some time to show up. But don't give up on us here, keep posting and after a bit, you'll be taken off moderation and your posts will be seen instantaneously. So just keep posting. I was going to tell you that Cadet will probably pop by to explain it all to you but I see he beat me LOL. Also, start following some other people's threads, and posting to them. If you are friendly, people will reach out to help you too.
I have a similar story to yours - my ex husband became infatuated with and had EAs with a bunch of Russian women. As well as PAs, when a couple of them came to the states to meet him in person. It hurts so badly, huh?
Your wife sounds really depressed to me, and you say that you are dealing with depression too. That sounds like a difficult situation to be in. You probably need more help than I can give you; I hope some of the guys drop by with some guy-advice, but I think you need to face why you felt the need to cheat on her back in 2007. Do you think you were having a mid life crisis yourself? Do you think maybe your wife is having one now?
But whether she is in a crisis or not, your job is the same. You need to accept that your wife does not want to be married to you right now, and detach yourself from her the best you can, and give her space and time. Try not to engage her in arguments or in discussions about your relationship. You already read not to beg, plead, etc, those sort of actions would really irritate her and cause her to resent you. Make sure you keep healthy - stress is really hard on your body so make sure you get enough sleep and exercise and eat a healthy diet. Truly get a life that does not revolve around her (nor other women LOL). And look honestly at your actions in your marriage, and see how your actions might have contributed to the predicament you guys are in now. When you identify areas you could improve on (and none of us are 100% perfect spouses), do a 180 - do the opposite, make a change. But do it for yourself, because you identified something in yourself that needs changing, don't do it for your wife.
Best of luck to you Andy. Take care and keep posting. Not every marriage can be saved, but following "the process" gives you the best chance. And it gives you the best chance of saving yourself too.
Linda
Hey Linda,
Lots to answer. First off forgive if this ended up being choppy I'm replying in my phone. To start with in terms of why I cheated on her back in 2007... Short anwser... I believe it had a lot to do with PTSD. When I say that is sounds like a cop out... I absolutely know how wrong it was and believe that in the end it definitely contributed to the problems in our marriage. I also have come to terms with the fact that after my deployment I really struggled with depression, only I wouldnt admit it. This contributed to me being a pretty selfish man, and trip up and failed my wife in a lot of different ways. She spent a lot of time over the last few years trying g her best to prop me up and deal with my depressed side.
When the proverbial S&$t hit the fan last year, I finally could see for the first time how much of a mess I have been. I gurss its like MWD says in her books in videos, and action happened and I fianly took notice. I have subsequently taken care of my depression, I'm sure in ways it is still there, but I have a much better hold on it then I ever have.
In terms of is she going through a midlife crisis? In a way I kinda wonder if that is true. She says she is not happy, that being married to me has sucked the life out of her. And now that she is looking at D she is finally feeling like she can find herself again. I do believe she is depressed. I also wonder if she is completely addicted to being online.
On my side I have definitely been GAL, it's a work in progress with two little ones, but I'm learning to define myself without her. I am still learning to detach more. I'm finding that a bit hard from time to time.
I have seen some progress we have started talking a bit more. We agreed to spend the Christmas holidays together with the kids, and at various grandparents. I'm not sure if that is right or wrong. There has been little to no talk in D since the first of this month. She appears to have put on hold moving out too, but I think that was under the advisement of her lawyer.
I am hopeful that we can figure this out. I have been reading a lot of the other posts on here. I finally got around to joining and actually posting this week. Thanks again for any advice and support.
In the future I'm going to do a better job double checking my posts before I send them. Hopefully you can get the gist of my response with all the errors.
You cant force her to change,
you can only control yourself and make yourself into
a person only a fool would leave.
Take the things that she said about yourself and work on those areas.
Yes being depressed is something that you can CONTROL about yourself.
This is a marathon not a sprint.
Keep posting and asking questions.
Christmas Eve and Christmas day went relatively well. On Christmas eve we went to her mothers place to frost cookies. Most of her family was there and I think I did a great job being up beat, and putting my best side forward. She was pretty distant and at times I felt almost pissed off. But I didn't let it dissuade my efforts at all. I kept a positive focus, and used it as a good opertunity to practice not letting her mood affect me.
Christmas Day was a bit better again put my best foot forward. Her mom, step dad, and grand parents came over for brunch (family tradition). All went well, her grandmother pulled us both in close, while saying good bye, and told us she wanted to do this again next year. The W said we will see.... I know no expectations. All in all a great opportunity to both be patient, and lower my expectations. How am I doing?
So my W was held over at work this morning. That lead to the decision to not come to my families Christmas this afternoon. My oldest Daughter was upset and when we got home from errands she went down stairs to where my W was sleeping and let her have it. I'm not sure if I should have stopped her or not. I know that if my W hadn't been held over she would have come with us.... I also felt if my daughter was upset I should let her voice her unhappiness.
It's not your place to come between
your wife and your daughter. It's their relationship to have. You can support your daughter but the best thing is too neither help nor harm their relationship. I understand that your daughter is quite young.I know that is hard on all of you.
Be patient and all will be revealed to you at the proper time.
Hi Andy, sorry you find yourself in this situation. But this forum is a great place to get advice or even just vent and get it all off your chest before you do/say something you can't recover from with your W. I am by no means an expert on this but here's just my 2cents.
To start with in terms of why I cheated on her back in 2007... Short anwser... I believe it had a lot to do with PTSD/I also have come to terms with the fact that after my deployment I really struggled with depression, only I wouldnt admit it. This contributed to me being a pretty selfish man, and trip up and failed my wife in a lot of different ways. She spent a lot of time over the last few years trying g her best to prop me up and deal with my depressed side.
Ok I can identify with you on this issue. When I got back from Afghanistan, somehow the next year became all about ME and I became an extremely selfish person and was focused 100% on my career. Our M was put on the back burner. This led to me NOT doing all the little things that made my W fall in love with me in the first place. She also spent a lonnnngggg time trying to support me and my career, even though she was hurting herself. So,my question to you is, HOW did you fail your W in "a lot of different ways?" What specifically did you do or not do that led to you failing your W? What are you doing now to change that? What are your 180s?
Last year my W started to get closer to her work partner as he was going through a D/She detailed her affair and feelings about him there/The affair ended in Feb by her work partner, and she began an online EA with someone from Australia who she fell in love with/In the spring I found out that her affair with her partner had been physical, something she had denied/By end of Aug she had met someone new online (Australian again) and entered into another EA.
Again, your W is looking for something, someone to fill a void that YOU left in her. Identify what this void is. What did you do or not do to make your W continue to go looking for something somewhere else other than you? After you found out about the first PA/EA, did you ever ask yourself, WHY did my W do that and what can I do differently to make her stop?
She moved out of the MBR in Sept. and lives in spare room in basement. She was looking for an apartment, to move out.
I am reading DR and have Read most of DB. I started to do some DB techniques at the beginning of DEC and have seen some slight changes mainly using LRT, being polite, and expressing affirmative words where I can. I have read 5 LL and believe she is affirmative words, I’m quality time.
Ok to be completely honest, I am very jealous of people whose WAW's are still living with them- yes the grass is always greener, I don't know if this is true or not. But you have the best opportunity to show your WAW your changes and she is always observing you, whether you know it or not. Small things, that you probably stopped doing over your M, like always looking nice instead of wearing the same pair of sweats all the time at home, wearing cologne, shaving on the weekend (or not, whatever you/she likes), all this stuff is stuff she will notice. Have you bought yourselves some new clothes yet? Not telling you to do this, but IMHO, it is one of the easiest ways for your W to notice something new, different about you. The few times I have seen my W since all this started 3 months ago, she always complimented me on my new clothes. Any interaction you still have with your W, make sure it is always cordial and polite, and anything you used to do that isn't very good, STOP and STFU. Or write it on here- i am actually about to vent myself after writing this to you. Do NOT ever yell or scream at your W. Obviously, if she is still in an A, you have to set your boundaries which someone else might be able to help you with (sorry, no experience here), but do not ever get into a pissing match with her because no matter how right you are, you are always gonna be wrong.
I have seen some progress we have started talking a bit more/There has been little to no talk in D since the first of this month. She appears to have put on hold moving out too, but I think that was under the advisement of her lawyer.
Ok talking more is always, IMHO, a good sign. But do NOT push for more. This is something I struggle with ALLLLL the time. If you read my thread, I seem to never be satisfied with what I have with her lately, but these are times where I need to STFU because pushing for more will lead to no where.
RE: no talk of D since the first of this month. Ok great. Again, in my opinion, the word Divorce should never even come out of your mouth if thats not what you want.
Who cares why she didn't move out. SHE DIDNT MOVE OUT! Again, you have a great opportunity to show your W your changes. Make the best of it. Take that high ground.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the replys! Just an update. So the last couple of days have been tough. We have been doing the Christmas scene with all of the various family events. I felt it was very positive that about a week ago we had a conversation, and we were both going to participate in our families events. Unfortunately when it came to going to my folks place my W didn't go. She was held over at work (works 3rd shift) and decided she needed the sleep instead of going. That situation was further complicated when I came home after the event with no gift from my mother to her. I had hoped that it wouldn't be brought up but she noticed and said something. Honestly I'm not sure why there wasn't one, but that's a separate subject.
We then went to Christmas at her grandmothers wich went pretty well. I did notice her on her phone texting from time to time. In the past that has been the OM, and can't really thjbk it would be anyone else.... I know that is something I can't help or change. The texting or FB messaging is still very much a trigger for me. I try my best not to show it, but when she starts being sucked into her phone it gets unde my skin. Lately she has even started answering when we are talking mid conversation. FB is her and these OM primary way to communicate. I think some of the time she does it just to see how I will react, because it has been a fighting point in the past. I have actually been using it as a means to gauge just how detached i am being... When I'm more detached it bothers me less.
i have been trying my best to give her the space that she has said she needs. I've also been trying to be there for her when she needs it and try to support her as well. It does at times feel like I'm being taken advantage of. That she gets to continue this online EA, and I only count for the day to day logistics. I have been doing 180 on a lot of these things, she wanted space, so I'm trying my best to give it to her. I'm also GAL to help her feel that I'm doing my own stuff. I've stopped being angry, and have stopped as best I can the presue mentality (that one is a work in progress). I do more around the house... Hell you could probably say that I do most of the house work. I also am trying to show in more decisive making decisin as opposed to the old "I don't care what do you want to do" response.
Really the big one has been the down in the dumps attitude. When this all kicked off at the beginning of Sept she told me that I was a miserable person to love with. After a lot of soul searching and looking at things from her perspective I can absolutely see how that was the case. I'm really working on making that change. I've tried to be a better listener, and more supportive. Despite being tired and aggravated at work I've been more up beat and less inclined to be negative. I've never really felt I've been a bad father but I've made sure to focus on my kids more where I can. Honestly I'm not too sure what else I can do a 180 on.
@TLEE86 to be perfectly honest with you your question about what void these OM are filling and what I need to do to meet that need is a great one. I've been racking my brain to figure that one out. I think It probably comes down to conversation. She has said that its nice to talk to someone who has different experiences in their part of the world. I know with this current guy she is planning on taking a trip to Australia this summer. I honestly wish I could figure out what her need was I am not meeting... But I think that your question might truely be the key to a lot of this...
It's this OM EA stuff that just gets me... I don't know what I'm doing wrong... Or what I need to do to support that ending.
I'm struggling this morning. Last night my W asked if it was ok I put the kids to bed so she could get in a nap before she went to work. I said no problem and was happy etc. After putting my youngest daughter to bed I sit up with my oldest daughter and watch some TV. My oldest was watching a show online which didn't interest me so I figured it was a great opportunity to finish folding some laundry. I went down stairs (where our spare room is, where the W is sleeping) and thought I heard a moan. I passed it off and proceded to the laundry room down the hall. Then I heard another one followed by more moaning and heavy breathing. I then subsequently heard part of a conversation with the OM. They were online sexting each other via video chat. At some point after the I love you had been exchanged I ended up making some noise which I'm sure she heard.
Now honestly this isn't anything new. I have suspected for a long time this was going on. It just [censored] to have it all confirm. The only me would have bust into the room angry and yelling. I just stood there through it all and folded the laundry. I later left and went outside to call my friend to vent.
The biggest part that [censored], outside the whole hearing it, is that I feel like my DB attempts are just smashed. I wonder why I'm even nothing at this point. She freely choose to leave us (her family) go downstairs and sext the OM.
I'm doing my best right now to view things from her perspective to try and empathize with what is going on with her right now. It's taken a lot of strength not to go down and flip her room looking for stuff. But I know that will only hurt me. That in the end all of this is only going to cause me more pain, and any hurt at this point is only because I let it. I've worked so hard to bring myself to a better place mentally, and i personally feel like this is a Devine FU right now. How should I proceed guys? Do I kick her out? Do I bring it up? Or do I let her wonder just how much I heard? Are my DB attempts just failing? Is there nothing I can do to break the hold of the monster that is now my W?
I'm hoping the new year will be a better one for you Andy. I am on MWD's mailing list, and just read an email she sent out entitled "10 New Year's Resolutions for Your Marriage." They really are great, I am going to copy and paste them here in the hope that they will be of some comfort and help to you.
1. Envision a positive outcome
There is no way that you can begin to accomplish positive change your marriage if you don't believe it is possible. Start by imagining what your life will be like when your marriage truly turns a corner. The more you can picture every detail, the easier it will be to eventually step into this picture at some later date.
2. Act as if you expect miracles to occur
Once you can imagine positive outcomes, reflect on how you will be behaving differently when they happen. Then start doing that right now!
3. Be kind, even if you think your spouse doesn't deserve it
You may be angry, disappointed, or even devastated by your spouse's choices and actions. However, rather than react to unsettling behavior, assume your spouse is lost and confused. Be patient, kind and steady and your efforts will pay off.
4. Focus on small, positive changes
Don't expect big changes overnight or you will be disappointed and it will make it hard to stay on track. Imagine the smallest change possible that would signal a shift in how things have been going. Then focus on that.
5. Promise yourself this will be a great year, no matter what
You can not control what your spouse does, but you can control what you decide to do with yourself and your children , if you have them. Take a deep breath and envision how you are going to make this a good year regardless of your spouse's choices.
6. Exercise your worry away
The most popular New Year's Resolution is to join a health club and exercise to become more fit. That is well and good. For you, exercise will be a lifesaver. It will help to assuage worries, feel good about yourself and increase feel-good hormones like endorphins. Go for it!
7. Do one new thing you enjoy
Don't become stale just because you are having a shaky time in your marriage. Novelty will stimulate your brain and maybe even your heart and help you have a more positive outlook about the future.
8. Make sure you have quality time with your children or other loved ones. Be present.
Many times, when people are teetering on the brink of divorce, their pain makes them become self-absorbed and staying the moment becomes and challenging task. You will never be able to do your children's childhood again, so do your best to be with them mentally when you're with them.
9. If you get off track, get back on quickly without self-blame
What separates the winners from the losers is not whether or how many times you get off track, it's how rapidly you get back on track. If you've veered from the Divorce Busting plan, hop right back on track without self-recrimination.
10. Do activities that help you rediscover serenity
Meditate, pray, hike in the mountains or watch a sky full of shooting stars. On a regular basis, do whatever it takes to bring you back to yourself. You and everyone around will benefit from your peacefulness.
I have been "expecting miracles to occur" in my life for the past couple of years, and you know what, they have! Learning to think positively is one of the best gifts you can give yourself! I go over my mental list of blessings in my life and the things I'm grateful for every morning; I've found it a great way to change my mental outlook to one of positivity. Positive happy people are a lot more attractive than negative bitter people!
Learning to figure out where you went wrong is important too, but forgiving yourself is JUST as important. My friend URWorthy always advises me to remember that I did the best I could with what I knew in the past, and, now that I know better, to do better. You're doing great! Hang in there and keep posting!
TLEE86's reply to you was great! I agree that people whose spouses are still at home have a good opportunity to demonstrate the changes within themselves. But I also feel that your spouse is not going to feel the loss of you while you are living together, which is why so many people advocate no contact (or as little contact as possible) while you are living in the same home. Either way is hard, and takes a long long time. If you find something seems to be working well, keep doing it, and if something is not working, try changing it.
Thanks Linda. It's certainly been a trying day. I have had some ups and downs throughout the day. Honestly I ended my night and started my morning being positive and trying to empathize with what my W might be going through. What has driven her to be like this. I honestly am on the road to forgiveness for a lot of this, but it's definetly hard. I have my times I struggle. I think your post is great and I will certainly adopt thinking even more positively. In a positive note I didn't say anything. I didn't tip my hand and I didn't bring up last night. I almost did at one point on the car ride home with her (we dropped the kids off with grandma for a couple days) but I quickly STFU. I probably missed an opportunity to talk more... That is probably where I get a F- grade on the evening.
I know this evening they are planning to "chat" again... I will remain positive that that conversation will be flat. And I'll keep looking for miracles as best as I can.
Unfortunately right now I don't have a lot of supporters for me to keep this up. There are a lot of my close friends telling me to stop being walked all over.
I think that I might have missed a golden opportunity last night. We had to drive home after leaving the kids with the grandparents, and I didn't say too much. We did talk a little bit but I think that it could have been an opportunity to say more or just be friendly. Once we were home she retreated pretty quickly to her room to get some "sleep" I heard her again talking to the OM while I was sitting in my room reading. Surprisingly it only bothered me a little bit.
I also had to deal with my two best friends telling me I should be done. To kick her out of the house, and make her feel the pain of her decisions to continue with this OM. What do people here think about that? Good idea or Bad? If she is continuing to have an EA, with video sexting should I continue to allow her to stay in the house? Will the EA ever end, or am I just supporting it by taking no action? Honestly my non accknowledgement of it or the last couple evenings events is a 180 from the way I would have handled it in the past.
Hi,
I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. You have really important questions. Your friends mean well & they don't want to see you suffering, but expert advice would be best. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Thanks Cristy,
I actually spoke to one 2 weeks ago. It was eye opening. The advice was good and I have tried my best to apply as much of it as I can. I have my days were I think that it is working and can see some small changes.... then I have others where I'm not sure I'm getting any results at all.
I think that I might have missed a golden opportunity last night. We had to drive home after leaving the kids with the grandparents, and I didn't say too much. We did talk a little bit but I think that it could have been an opportunity to say more or just be friendly. Once we were home she retreated pretty quickly to her room to get some "sleep" I heard her again talking to the OM while I was sitting in my room reading. Surprisingly it only bothered me a little bit.
I also had to deal with my two best friends telling me I should be done. To kick her out of the house, and make her feel the pain of her decisions to continue with this OM. What do people here think about that? Good idea or Bad? If she is continuing to have an EA, with video sexting should I continue to allow her to stay in the house? Will the EA ever end, or am I just supporting it by taking no action? Honestly my non accknowledgement of it or the last couple evenings events is a 180 from the way I would have handled it in the past.
I think you dont want to be meeting any of her needs while the OM is in the picture, that is his job not yours.
To break up an affair the light of day must be put on the affair.
Most affairs last about 2 years.
What needs are you meeting of hers?
I think you dont want to be meeting any of her needs while the OM is in the picture, that is his job not yours.
To break up an affair the light of day must be put on the affair.
Most affairs last about 2 years.
What needs are you meeting of hers?
I think that I'm still meeting her needs in that she is living at home still and I am doing most of the house work. I am the primary person who takes care of the kids. I put them to bed and that lets her retreat down to her room to "nap" before bed. I think also in my attempts to DB I have provided more words of affirmation, and appreciation when she does positive things.
How would I shine the light of day on the affair? A few of my friends know and obviously my family. But she keeps telling everyone on her side that he is just a friend. Both the PA and the EA she had in the past only lasted 6 months and 4 months. Or are my best friends right and I'm just being a doormat?
Was doing really well... Then we stepped out for dinner... She texted OM almost the whole time. She then brought up moving out... There has been no talk about that etc for 2 weeks.... I kept my composure and talked a bit about me going back to school this spring. I think that threw her for a bit of a loop.... Certainly when I brought up how that will probably change how we handle the kids in the morning.... I thought I was doing so well... Now I'm feeling a little ill.
Why did you let her text OM through dinner? That would be rude if he weren't an OM.
Has anyone given you the boundaries lecture yet?
Andy, like Bell said. Boundaries. I struggle with this all the time. Mine is financial. I finally had the balls to say something about it today and now I have to enforce it. Heres what my DB coach told me about boundaries in case you didn't read it on my thread.
For me (Lovingly and kindly enforce that boundary of finances)- W, I will help you and I am here for YOU but i don't want to be in the position to help you AND HIM. I will not pay for his bills. Convey to her that I will help her out, and do what I can to help HER but draw the line to where it is not going to OM
For you (WRT texting OM in front of you)- W, although I do not support your decision to talk to OM, that is your choice and yours to make. But please do not disrespect me by continuing to text OM while we are at dinner. If you continue to do this, I will not sit here with you.
Something like that maybe? When I set mine, it wasn't so clear cut, but as long as the message gets across that you won't tolerate things, not because you don't love them, but because its just that line in the sand you are drawing.
How are you doing on identifying that void that you aren't/did not fill in your M? I think you really need to dial in on this one...
Hey guys thanks. I have no idea why I let it go on, and unfortunately no I haven't had the boundaries lecture yet. As for what the void is... That one is tough. It's still a work in progress but I think mainly it was I didn't listen, I didn't show enough caring and appreciation for her.
I think that is what she is getting from the OM now. But honestly I'm not sure, and even if it is I've been blocked out of even being able show that as a change. Any opportunity to talk or have a conversation, and she retreats down to her room and talks to him. It has also gotten to the point where I'm pretty sure there is a lot of sexting going on. Again a lot of people in my life are telling me to just kick her out.
I was doing pretty well with all of this but hearing her talking and moaning the other night was a pretty big body blow.
So I know that DBing is tough and that it takes a lot of time and patience. I also know that DBing with a W that is still in the fantasy of an A is even tougher. I'm honestly not feeling very much hope right now. I know there are ups and downs, and that is part of the ride.... For some reason today and yesterday I'm just not feeling it.... Does it actually work? Is there really any hope that she will see things differently? She is a pretty stubborn person.
Does it actually work?
Is there really any hope that she will see things differently?
Does it work? - Absolutely!
She will eventually see things differently.
How long will that take?
Could be quite a long ride.
If you are looking for a quick fix or an easy button this is not the place.
And I will guess that if that is what you are looking for then odds are your next relationship will also fail.
People come here to fix their marriage,
they leave after they have fixed themselves.
What do you want to do?
Cadet thank you! Honestly I would like to do both. I want to fix my marriage and fix myself. I know that one of my weakness is that when things don't happen fast I get discouraged. I know I have a lot to learn still on that one.
I also went back and read your first post to me. Detach and MWD advice of believing none of what she says and half of what she does. I guess I had forgotten those simple things... And when faced with this bumb I let it get me down.
You asked if DB really works. Have you read the book yet? I am curious in how you perceive the whole DBing concept.
Is your WAW aware that you know about OM?
Andy,
Sorry to hear of your situation. I think the hardest part is letting go of the pain and trying to move on. I know. I'm in the stages of it all now. Keep posting your thoughts and what's going on in your life
You asked if DB really works. Have you read the book yet? I am curious in how you perceive the whole DBing concept.
Is your WAW aware that you know about OM?
I am almost through DR and I was a little over halfway through DB when it was suggested to me that I read DR instead.
I believe that at its core DBing is about identifying where you as an individual can grow, and how that growth can help to affect positive change in your relationship with your spouse. Based on what I am reading in the book and on the forum, it takes alot of hard work. Its not an easy fix. It takes time, patience, and having hope that it will work. That it works by completely shaking up the typical approach people take when presented with challenges in their relationships.
As for does my WAW know that I know about the OM, yes she does. She has maintained that it is only a friend and that is it. Before the other nigth I did not know for sure if there was anything sexual going on. I think over the last few days I have done a pretty bad job detaching.
Ok guys I'm confused. When I talked to my DB coach she told me to treat my WAW as a friend and for right now not to talk about the OM or about the future at all. What I've read here is to be more distant, to Detach and GAL. Over the last few days stuff with the OM has ramped up. Along with lots of talk about moving out splitting our stuff etc. How exactly do I proceed here? I'm being more distant and that feels odd, but I also understand it's kinda supposed to.
I also don't know if it is being counter productive. Am I not going to just push her out the door? She was griping to me about where she was going to live and how she lost the apt she was looking at. Do I converse with her like a friend would or do I listen but not really offer an opinion either way. Also to add a layer her being a good listener and supportive has been one of the areas where I have gone wrong in my marriage
Do you want to fill the position of friend or husband? Anyone can be her friend, but only one can be her husband.
To be her BFF while she is involved with a third party will not cause her to be attracted to you in a romantic, sexual way. She will think of you ONLY as a friend.
Perhaps your coach meant to act in a friendly manner, much like how we act toward a nosey neighbor. We don't tell them our business or try to make out with them, we smile & wave and keep going.
There is a point and time that you can become more friendly, but that is after she ends things with OM. For now, you need to decide if you want to settle for being just friends, or do you want more?
Detaching does not mean physical distance. It does not mean being cold or acting mad. It is not pouting. Perhaps you need to read up on relationship detaching. It won't push her out the door. If anything, it will draw her closer.
Research about setting relationship boundaries. She has to respect your boundaries in order for a R to work. Right now, she does not respect you as a man. The worst thing you could do is to live in fear of her leaving. Fear will cause you to be a prisoner and freeze any action you need to take.
Thanks sandi2 you bring up good points. I didn't really mean just physical detachment, but I think you are right I need to read up on it more. As well as research relationship boundaries. On a good note being fearful of her moving out is becoming less and less... Honestly I wonder if that is just what needs to happen now.
Just a little up date... I'm continuing my work on detaching, and trying to understand my boundaries better. I think that yesterday might have been a win for me. After being up and having a great morning with my D8 and D5, I got a call from my best friend asking if I wanted to take the kids skating with him and his S. I jumped at the opportunity, and as we were getting ready to walk out the door my W finally woke up. I was pleasant offered for her to come with, but when she didn't say yes I simply said good bye and off we went.
Later during the afternoon when she tried to bring up the OM, I simply and kindly dismissed the conversation, and continued playing video games with D8. We had a blast and W left to go grocery shopping. Honestly I didn't think twice about her leaving.
Later at night my W actually spent some time with D5 and put her to bed. Unfortunately D5 was wired, little kids I wish I could bottle up that energy, so I went in to say good night. D5 and I proceeded to sing, laugh at jokes she was making, and then read a couple stories. It was simply a great time, and I have not laughed like that in a while! Later when I put D8 to bed she told me that she had had a great day. I did have some trouble with her pursuits about splitting things and moving which I listed above in my other posts. But I went to bed last night really feeling like it was a good day. Just thought I would share.
Oh and I also took a huge step in GAL, today I registered for class’s so I can go back to get my nursing degree. SCARY! But feels good too!
It was a good day b/c you felt good about yourself. You did not focus on her. If you will continue to do this, you will avoid the pitfall of doom & gloom whenever her mood is nasty. Just don't allow her speech, actions, or moods influence your own.
Thanks sandi2 for your response. I think that I’m finally learning the difference. I think that last night was more of a win in terms of learning this detached approach. I came home after work frustrated that she had slept all afternoon, causing her mom to have to stay. When I came home I maintained a pleasant but non-engaging attitude. I simply had things to do like change, snow blow the driveway etc. The asked if she should go out to pick up dinner, I told her sure told her what I would like. She mentioned that she wasn’t feeling well and had called in sick. I asked a little about what was wrong, i.e. vomiting etc. then carried on with what I needed to do.
When she returned I sat and ate with her and D8. D5 was allowed to eat while watching a movie. She actually didn’t jump on her phone while I sat there. After dinner I spent time with D5 playing and watching the movie with her. The W actually came and sat in the room and watched movie with us. When she asked questions or made comments I responded kindly but wasn’t overly talkative or engaging. The W actually put D5 to bed, but D5 insisted that I come in and do our nighttime routine. After that W retreated down to her room.
I guess I’m trying to figure out if I’m on the right track here guys? Anything I should be doing differently? It certainly feels counter intuitive to not constantly engage her in conversation. But I also know that by not I’m actually doing a 180 there. I’m still at a loss on how to deal with OM. I learning to not focus on him… that is definitely a work in progress.
Oh and I also took a huge step in GAL, today I registered for class’s so I can go back to get my nursing degree. SCARY! But feels good too!
Okay, are you doing anything for fun?
unfrotunately I'm not doing anything for fun right now, I guess other then getting out on my back door hockey rink and skating. I guess that is something that I can work on.
So I will admit I havecthese moments where all I want to do is talk to my W. And usually those are followed by secretly wanting a miracle to happen. This OM to go away and for us to reconcile. I don't say these wishes out loud, so I'm giving putting them out here instead.
Andy, pretty sure that is everyone on this site...if you weren't thinking those things, then you'd probably really have to ask yourself what it is you are trying to get out of this S.
How are your 180s going? You mentioned you "kinda" did a 180 the other night when your W watched a movie with you and D5. I thought you handled it well, polite, engaging but not over-doing it. Obviously you didnt screw it up too bad if your W sat there the whole time with you and D5, so take it for what its worth and just keep doing those small, consistent interactions. Make every engagement with your W, whether phone, text, in person, a positive contact so that she starts to associate you with positive things, and doesn't look at you, or see your name pop up on her phone and she immediately has a WTF does he want moment.
I think its awesome that you signed up for classes again, that is definitely something for you. As Sandi mentioned, what are you doing for fun? either by yourself or with D8/D5? Probably a good thing to come up with this weekend.
Keep your head up, you'll get where you want to be sooner or later!
TLEE86 thanks for the response. For fun right now me and D5 D8 are doing hockey. We are right in the swing of hockey season so a lot of my extra time is taken up by taking the little ones to one practice or another. Good to know you think I'm on the right track, because honestly I woke up this morning feeling like I'm not.
Last night I had to go right from work to D8 hockey practice. I had to call W before hand to ask how we were coordinating with the kids. I was up beat and friendly on the phone, and she seemed the same. It was agreed the I would meet them three right after work and then she would head home with D5 so she could get to bed on time and W could "nap" before work.
When I showed up it all went to hell. I was pleasant but a little distant, and we had minor chit chat, along with me playing with D5. I asked how her day was and got a line about how she slept amd wasn't feeling well. Then she brought up that she had been to see a new lawyer (she got rid of her previous one). I think I handled it pretty well, but I know I could have done better. I guess it just threw me for a loop.
It seems like all the DBing is just back firing right now. Over the last week I have committed more to the LRT, and following Sandi rules. I've been met with even more talk of moving out, lawyers, the divorce process, and her increased engagement with the OM. Am I doing something wrong here? Or is this part of the process. I have read through the forum and it appears that this seems to happen in a lot of other people's sitch.
I'm doing my best to remain positively forcus, good thoughts etc but it is seeming like i am trying to move a mountain right now.
Dude, don't focus on her, keep your focus on you. At this moment in time your W is lost to you. She is not the same person you knew and loved. She does not love you at this time, and you have to be aware that you are nothing more than a coworker or a neighbour. Midnboggling, Crazy I know, but the sooner you face it, the better for you.
Remember, DBing is not a sprint, it's a marathon, do not expect short term rezults with regards with your W, because it is going to take a while...
Focus on yourself, get a life (GAL) make her curious what is up with your life, read and reread Sandi's rules and then read them again (at least weekly). Be the best dad in the world, your W will notice. Do not try to change for her and ask her if she saw the changes, change for yourself, live the change.
Do not force things with your W, limit contact with her, but be friendly and upbeat, even if it is tearing you up inside. At times you will feel overwhelmed, come to the boards to vent, you are among friends, and each and every one of us knows how you feel, your friends and relatives do not.
Stay strong my friend, your kids need you. Be prepared for things to be worse for a while, but it will get better. Detach, detacth, detach... It will not help to bring your W back, but it will help you retain your sanity. Do not try to understand what your W does, it defies logic and it will only mess with your mind...
Thanks Vapo I think that was just the kind of pep talk that I needed. As I have faced challenges over the last week or so I have tried my best to reach out to friends and family. And you are very right they don't get it, they don't really understand what I'm trying to do. There have been alot of comments about "why are you holding out hope?" "why are you trying?" "stop being a doormat and just kick her out already". Its certainly sapped alot of my positive outlook.
It seems like all the DBing is just back firing right now. Over the last week I have committed more to the LRT, and following Sandi rules. I've been met with even more talk of moving out, lawyers, the divorce process, and her increased engagement with the OM. Am I doing something wrong here? Or is this part of the process. I have read through the forum and it appears that this seems to happen in a lot of other people's sitch.
I'm sorry Andy, i can definitely see how rough that is for you when you are trying your hardest but it seems to have the opposite effect. The only thing I can say is, do you think you would get a better result if you fought your W tooth and nail over this? I know this is something very difficult to come to terms with, and I won't pretend like I get it, but by trusting the process, you give yourself a chance. Fighting your W, will only increase her desire to keep going down the path because you will appear like you are trying to control her and her life/decisions.
However you can, convey that you don't like and don't agree with her choice, that its not something you want, but you won't stand in her way. The only way I know to do this is by just being light and friendly to her, at least for things not concerning OM.
Again, ask yourself if you did the opposite of what you are doing and fought your W on it, would it have better results or worse?
Things will turn around Andy, just trust the process. Read success stories. Almost all of them involve OM/OW and R didnt happen for 1-3 years!
Last night I took my life back.
After a couple weeks of my W dangling divorce, moving out, and the OM in my face I decided that I had had enough. After dinner while helping to clean up the kitchen I began by asking her if she had found any new places to possibly move to. She said no, but that she was going to look into a place 25 min away. This was the place that she had originally looked to move to at the beginning of the month.
I then said that we needed to talk then about placement and what legally we need to do in regards to kids etc. She indicated that her lawyer had told her we could just file papers with the court on what we agreed to. I then asked if she was going to retain the lawyer she had met with. She said that she would probably write a check on Monday. I was friendly about that as I have a lawyer and want to make sure that she is represented to. Again this was one of the things that she has been dangling in my face trying to get a rise from me.
I then explained about my schooling and that despite what she thought/planned I would probably not need her help taking the kids to school in the morning. That didn't go over so well, she believes that despite being divorced and moving out that she would get to see the kids every morning and night. I indicated that this simply would not be the case, I want her to see the kids but she no longer gets to exclusively dictate how and when. (Her decision to walk away, my decision to set up some boundaries, and those include that if they are with me most of the time then I have the responsibility of getting them from place to place). She didn't like this very much but I explained that if she is choosing to continue down the road to divorce, that for both the kids’ sake and my own we needed to establish a new normal.
We agreed to look at things and see if there was another day in the week that she could have them for dinner. She told me “I guess we will see what your school schedule is”, to which I replied that “I already had it (yes I’m moving on with my life)”. She then got very emotional and began to tear up. She accused me of only going back to school full-time, and changing the schedule as a bid to get more child support. I calmly validated her emotions and her position but explained that I was going back to school to make a better life for myself. We discussed things further and then I had the opportunity to say something that my DB coach had told me to say “W I believe that divorce is not the solution to our problems. With that being said I love and respect you enough to let you go if that is what you choose.” She began to smirk a bit and I looked at her and said “Actually I really need to thank you. If you hadn't chosen to go down this path, then I would never have opened my mind to possibilities that nursing presents to me. So thank you.” No more smirk, just a look of shock.
I was then presented with an opportunity and I said to her “I understand that you have the right and choice to talk to whoever you would like. But I would appreciate it if you kept it down at night; your voice carries throughout the house.” She tried to interrupt by saying she was sorry she didn't realize and I continued “I hope that the kids have not heard some of the things that I have heard.” To which she asked what have you heard, and with perfect timing my daughters asked if I could come and play. She got very flushed and red, and I did not answer. There is simply no need to let her know what I have or have not heard, silence sometimes is golden. Again boundary set.
She was basically nonexistent the rest of the night, and I had a great evening with my D’s. I honestly and truly felt like I took my life back last night. I’m not scared of her moving out anymore. I have a great deal of compassion for the fact that she is so lost right now. While that hurts to see and I so very much want to fix it…. I know that I can’t. This is her path and her journey. I have walked through my own fire and feel that I am coming out the other side with a bright future ahead of me. Just thought that I would share… sorry this got so long, but I would love to heat what you think.
You did great Andy. You should feel good and I'm glad you do. Be careful now of her trying to push your boundaries with spew and acting sad or nice manipulation. Have no expectations she will turn back to you now just b/c her choices are starting to have consequences. Just keep going.
Thanks HPoirot! I have no expectations that this will alter anything at this point. I am simply finding my own happiness in the moment. Something my IC told me this week really resonated with me "continue to focus on your own happiness, and finding ways to bring joy into your live" I think setting boundaries certainly has and will help with that.
Hi Andy. I also think you did really well. l'm mentally bookmarking your sitch to remember that quote about loving and respecting you enough to let you go if this is your choice. I may need that one at some point.
Good for you. You came across as very centred and specific and self respecting - without being mean to your W.
Important thing now is to sustain what you have started and focus on the big new thing in your life - nurse training...best of luck with it all xx
Thanks Toots! Its going to be tough going back to school and being a single Dad but I know that I can rock it! I also found a great video on You Tube this morning. It a recording from a TED talk in Houston, and the lecturer's name is Brene Brown. She talks about Shame and vulnerability, and I couldn't help but draw some conclusion and similarities to my own Sitch.
Well done m8. Now hold your ground...
Awesome. Proud of you Andy!
Does anyone else have the problem that when they wake up and face there present situation it seems daunting? I'm just curious... I absolutely know that I'm doing the right thing and handling it well, but it still has its sucky moments. I guess it falls into that category of the W acting nice, and me knowing its a trap.
Thanks for being so vulnerable and open with your feelings. I and many others can understand just how you feel. The roller coaster they can put you on...well I think your doing great. Every thought that leads back to wife just remember it can be an opportunity for you to self reflect on yourself. The feeling of "A Trap" can make you go into some dark waters. It a good idea to look at what your feeling and change the thought pattern. More importantly look and see what you need to change in your own roller coaster we did not get here just by their doing! Focus on you!
Thanks faith2b. I think that is some good advice. I know that my thoughts often can lead to dark places, and those thoughts have caused me more trouble then helped. As I was just describing to a friend of my I am my own worst critic and then that leads to blame (of both me and my W). What I have started to try and do is approach my W actions with compassion and empathy. And when those dark thoughts creep in to reflect on where they are coming from, wether they are constructive or not and let go of them if they aren't...... I'll be honest it is not easy!
My dear Andy, you are hurting, I see you, I feel your pain... We could be brothers, you and me, similar ages, our respective Ws similar age, our children similar ages, I too have a D(5) and a S(3). My BD was 3 months earlier than yours.
Let her go, she has to go sort her $hit out. There is nothing you can do to help. Do not try to understand her, you can't so don't even try.
DETACH, GAL, 180 and be the best dad in the world for your kids. Don't think about your W, she currently does not give a rat's derrier about you.
It will get better, I promise you, just focus on you and your kids, try to live like she is a neighbor. Be civil, but nothing more. Always have your game face on, let her wonder why you are happy (even if you are not). Do not show feelings around her, if you are overwhelmed, cry in private, tears do wash and clean your soul. Stay busy and keep your mind off her. She is not worth your brain power. I am sure you have a ton of stuff you always wanted to do. Guess what, now you have the time. Go do stuff. Being single in a refreshing change after 15yrs. It will feel weird at first, but I am loving it now. Movies for 1? Why not? Having a beer too many with friends from time to time? Why not? The battle axe is not around to give you a hard time... Liberate your soul, the hurting does no one any good. She will not just snap out of it, she will not come running to your arms tomorrow. Now that you have time, analyze your shortcomings in the M and own your $hit as well. I know you were not the perfect H. Admit it to yourself, own your $hit, forgive yourself and improve yourself. Become the guy only an idiot would leave. If your wife does not recognize the new you, some other lucky woman will.
And to wrap it up, go to joelosteen.com, go under messages and have a look at the video release control. 30 minutes you will not regret. Go now, do, BE!
Thanks Vapo... Words I definetly need to hear especially after she just told me what she thinks schedule with the kids should be. And is going to forward me a list of the things she wants to take with her. I'm on that hard journey right now, where I've been taking a tough look at myself.... And trying so hard to simply let go. It's almost like my brain doesn't want to. I know I need to you are very right she doesn't care. I really wish there was a switch. I will def look at the video!
Yes, that's what I want to know, where's the off switch!
Ok so as part of my process I'm learnings a lot about thoughts and the power of the mind. I have a question to float out there. Obviously over the last couple of weeks you guys/gals have seen that my W actions have shaped my mood. Also some of the things that I have found out and over heard with the OM. Obviously I'm still learning to detach, and let go. So here is my question... If thoughts are very powerful things, and It seems like I'm constantly thinking about my W and the OM (their online sex sessions etc.) Then do you think that my that very act I'm giving the OM, and possibly my W, more power over the situation then they really have?
I just noticed that one of the things I was doing very well over Dec was to let go, and think positively.... The last week not so much, I'm fighting to detach, fighting my own thoughts... And it's all very negative. Again I'm on the hard road here, and am very grateful for everyones comments and support. I'm interested to hear what you have to say. What do you think?
Great job Andy! Keep up the good work!
Ok so I'm learning that I have a big issue with control. It just kinda hit me today... It's probsbly at the route of my problems marriage wise, and probsbly has a lot to do wth my own happiness. I can't seem to let it all go.... I'm trying I know that it is probsbly the biggest 180 that I need to do: learn to let go and not be in control. Any advice on how to do that?
Hi Andy, I'm a bit controlling myself and am working on letting go a bit more.
What kinds of things do you feel you need to control, and how did this impact on your R?
. If thoughts are very powerful things, and It seems like I'm constantly thinking about my W and the OM (their online sex sessions etc.) Then do you think that my that very act I'm giving the OM, and possibly my W, more power over the situation then they really have?
Ah, but you already know the answer, don't you?
Ok so I'm learning that I have a big issue with control. It just kinda hit me today... It's probsbly at the route of my problems marriage wise, and probsbly has a lot to do wth my own happiness. I can't seem to let it all go.... I'm trying I know that it is probsbly the biggest 180 that I need to do: learn to let go and not be in control. Any advice on how to do that?
This may sound crazy to some, but I use to have big control issues.......and didn't know it. I don't think I was actually trying to dictate or control, but I would get very upset when anyone did not do what I thought was "right". One time I was so upset at my sibling (after we were grown) b/c of something she did and I was spewing all over the place when my dad said, "Sandi, when are you going to learn that your sister is not going to live her life the way YOU think she should?" Well, I was stunned! But it caused me to start thinking about it and I wondered why someone had never mentioned it to me. I started that day in practicing the act of letting go. And it does take practice.
I will tell you this, Andy, it is one of the most freeing experiences to accept the fact you have absolutely no control over the person or issue. When we elect ourselves as being in charge of how another person lives, feels, makes decisions, etc......that places a tremendous responsibility on us.
As I grew older and had bigger problems to come my way, I leaned more and more to let go of what I had no control over. For me personally, I put my faith in God to take care of the other person or situation. I'm not sure what people do who do not have a spiritual belief, so I can't help much in that area.
I believe many LBS's operate out of fear. That fear causes them to clinch tighter onto some sliver of control over the WAS. However, that is one of the worst things to do. We cannot make another person love us if they do not want to. We can't actually make them do exactly like we want them to do. We can't make them be happy.
Observe your own behavior by thinking over the years you've been M and see now you may have applied pressure to her, trying to get things to be like you wanted it. Trust me when I say, the best way to handle anyone who threatens to leave is to tell them you are not holding them back. Don't argue or fight trying to keep them. Love has to be without pressure.
Letting go of the control does not mean you no longer care. It just means you have resigned from being boss.
[quote].
I believe many LBS's operate out of fear. That fear causes them to clinch tighter onto some sliver of control over the WAS. However, that is one of the worst things to do. We cannot make another person love us if they do not want to. We can't actually make them do exactly like we want them to do. We can't make them be happy.
Observe your own behavior by thinking over the years you've been M and see now you may have applied pressure to her, trying to get things to be like you wanted it. Trust me when I say, the best way to handle anyone who threatens to leave is to tell them you are not holding them back. Don't argue or fight trying to keep them. Love has to be without pressure.
Letting go of the control does not mean you no longer care. It just means you have resigned from being boss.
Putting this in my journal of focus. I have found many things like this in the past few days. You could not have said it better. Thanks
Hi guys/gals I wanted to shoot a quick thank you to everyone who responded. I have lots to I'd like to add but.... I'm about to take a step into the biggest change of my life in years! I'm scared and excited all at the same time!! I'll write more of a response later. I really do appreciate the comments.
So first I’d like to apologize for some of the spelling errors in my responses. I usually respond from my phone and I’ve not been careful enough to double check spelling etc.
Toots, I to be honest that isn’t a short answer. I think in a lot of ways I have been controlling or had issues with control for a long time. When things haven’t gone my way in the past I have looked for people, and things to blame. This has led to a whole swath of emotions, to include anger and getting depressed because things were not going my way. I think that this over emphasis on trying to control things certainly has contributed to my depression and my general negative outlook on life. This I’m sure has been hard to live with.
Now to get more specific within my sitch. Back in June 2014 my W expressed wanting to help out her work partner, who was in the process of getting divorced. She stated “she was one of his close friends” and probably was. Again there is a lot that can be said about that comment; however the nature of her job those bonds form. At first I was supportive of it, my W and I had always taken the approach of individual freedom and space. But as the number of times going out with him increased (usually going out drinking) I became un-easy, I became suspicious (I’m sure my own actions from my past played into it) and my controlling side reared its ugly head. I’m sure as I dive into this more with my own counselor I will learn that it this side of me has played more of a role in my life then I realize. Over the next couple months I tried to control what was going on. I spied, tried to keeps tabs, fought, and at the same time tried (very unsuccessfully) to give my W space. It only led to her moving further and further away, and becoming very unhappy with the spouse I was turning into. As I look back on it I can’t believe the things that I was doing, it was like I was another person. As I tried to grip tighter and control more, the more she slipped through my fingers. How I wish I had found DB then, maybe it would have opened up my eyes… maybe not.
Specifically I tried to figure out where she was, constantly. I tried to control who she was talking to online. I constantly asked about whom she was texting, and when I didn’t get a good answer I would persist. Then my control invaded my prayers, I found (and again up until recently) my prayers were dominated by asking God for specific things. I asked him to end her affair, to change her mind, to bring her back, to hit the OM with a truck
It honestly had become an obsession, and its only now that I see just how toxic it has made things.
Sandi thank you for the response! You are right I do know the answer to that question, and it is through quiet reflection that I am starting to realize just how much power I have given the OM. I am also learning that I simply need to practice the art of letting go. And I truly believe that it is an art, something that needs to be practiced over and over. Hopefully over time I will get better at it and shape my mind so that it comes easier. I am also changing the way that I pray, and simply giving this situation over to God.
Vapo made a great suggestion and the video made a lot of sense. Another speaker that I have found very insightful is Dr. Brene Brown; she is doing good research on issues of vulnerability, shame and empathy. I think that there is a lot of merit in trying to simply empathize with my W. However to do that you need to allow a level of vulnerability to happen, which when in a sitch like this, is about that last thing that you want to do. Don’t get me wrong that isn’t easy to do, and I’m only now trying to figure it out. Thoughts? I am very grateful for this forum, its allowing me to open up and express my thoughts openly with a lot of support.
There have been so many M's to get into trouble b/c the W had a close male friend and they would pal around without the H. Big mistake! I believe our society has to learn that no matter how "equal" or "individual" we are as men and women, when it comes to a marriage........you cannot have close "friends" of the opposite sex that excludes your spouse. You are playing with a ticking bomb.
I know some disagree with me, but that's okay. I still stand by it. It really isn't a trust issue, it's a "being smart" issue. It is affair proofing your M.
Just look at how many A's start between co-workers, b/c they are thrown together at work, meetings, dinners, trips, etc. Just based on the threads that have been on the boards, it seems like an epidemic.
The smart thing couples should do is come together and have a serious discussion about a guide to use throughout their M that will protect the M from possibly involving a third person. I'm concerned that many couples just write it off as "you either trust me or you don't". And yes, we need to be able to trust........but be smart.
It sounds as if your W is at least emotionally involved with this "friend" and will use the friendship to mask what is really happening between them.
Trying to control her is useless. And right this minute, if you were to tell her it's either you or OM, she would choose OM. So, you need to decide where you will draw the line. If this feels like she is disrespecting you, smearing it in your face, making OM priority, belittling you, and causing you to have strong suspicions.........how much will you take?
We all need personal boundaries when dealing with people, from strangers to relatives. I'm sure there are things you would not tolerate from someone else. You expect people to show respect to you, right? Well, that is one example. Boundaries are not used to control the other person, but to protect yourself. Boundaries are not ultimatums. So think about it.
Hey Sandi thanks for the response, and I completely agree… it just leads to trouble no matter how strong you think that you are. Unfortunately to add to my story, it did in fact turn into an A. My controlling snooping etc. was in part a direct result of her telling me they were just friends when then truly weren’t. I later learn through on online web site called Experience project that she was in fact in a PA and EA with this man. I learned that he had ended it with her about this time a year ago, but truly didn’t know the details until later (again more snooping and finding her posts online). Based on what I read she was devastated that it ended, it was very hard reading and I spent a large amount of time torturing myself reading and re-reading the many posts.
Once confronted I thought that might be it, and we might be ready for things to get better. We tried to let it go to look past it all and move on. Honestly I wasn’t ready for it, and neither do I think was she. Repeatedly last spring I heard how she didn’t love me anymore, and I did everything that all the Db’ers say not to. Almost to a T I did everything, beg pleaded, chased, pursued, cried, yelled… got angry… and again tried to control the whole thing. I also failed, she went further away. I later learned that she started having an EA online with a man from Australia. She supposedly fell in love with him too. At that time I was reaching a point in my own counseling work where I was finally making progress. I thought that maybe now we could actually make some progress in our R. The EA began to end at the beginning of the summer when the OM2 decided to get back with his separated W.
Our summer was fairly decent but I also think that I hadn’t learned enough about myself to make lasting changes. I still struggled with trust, and honestly she was doing some things to regain it…. But was taking the approach of “fake it till ya feel it”… and again I was still trying to control the whole thing… I wasn’t letting go. I also began talking more with someone online myself, somehow thinking that I was justified, and that it would help. It didn’t and quickly I learned that it was not what I wanted, nor did it make me feel better. By the end of the summer another Australian had come along, and is the current OM that I write about in my posts… so that would make it OM3. So here we go, talk about making myself vulnerable…. That is my story. There are little tidbits in there along with my own mistakes…. Lots of them both big and little… I had my own A years before that I admitted to in the spring when I finally learned the details of the A with her work partner (OM1)…. I have really learned a lot about me, going through this hell of mine… and I’m very curious to learn more about how I can work on letting go.
I will say this just before I learned about OM3, I had come to a point where I simply forgave both my W and her work partner. I still do, and that simple act was incredibly liberating in ways I never knew it would be. I guess in a way I also let go there too…. Now how to figure out how to do it more.
Ok so I'm learning that I have a big issue with control. It just kinda hit me today... It's probsbly at the route of my problems marriage wise, and probsbly has a lot to do wth my own happiness. I can't seem to let it all go.... I'm trying I know that it is probsbly the biggest 180 that I need to do: learn to let go and not be in control. Any advice on how to do that?
3 things. First, so you know, in 2006 I told my sisters that my "marriage has a 10% chance of lasting..."
Second, how to deal with the fears and stress and obsessing? Well...
If you are a believer, you can try turning it over to God. IF not, maybe a "higher power" or "the universe" would help.
I literally had to think it, say it, and hear myself say it, dozens of times for it to sink in. (I'd do this in the shower so the kids didn't think I was nuts).
But invariably, it calmed me. "God, I turn my marriage/pain/anger over to you."
Also, GAL helps with Detaching, more than any other single thing.
You are actually doing quite well. I'm impressed with your personal insights and personal work.
If those insights lead you to real change, then that's no small thing.
Finally, For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. And I had 3 kids, including a baby
(so you know I don't want to hear about how you are 'too busy' to GAL). 
Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. -
I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.
I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).
I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.
I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well.
I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.
I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding.
Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license.
Went skydiving. Loved it so much I did it again. And plan on doing it again, soon!
Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)
I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. Found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.
(Plus I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly cold of their long winters).
Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.
Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).
Joined the Officer's Wives club, after 15 years of h being active duty, & my own status as a veteran.
(Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)
Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking
There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot.
Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.
3 things. First, so you know, in 2006 I told my sisters that my "marriage has a 10% chance of lasting..."
Second, how to deal with the fears and stress and obsessing? Well...
If you are a believer, you can try turning it over to God. IF not, maybe a "higher power" or "the universe" would help.
I literally had to think it, say it, and hear myself say it, dozens of times for it to sink in. (I'd do this in the shower so the kids didn't think I was nuts).
But invariably, it calmed me. "God, I turn my marriage/pain/anger over to you."
Also, GAL helps with Detaching, more than any other single thing.
You are actually doing quite well. I'm impressed with your personal insights and personal work.
If those insights lead you to real change, then that's no small thing.
Thanks 25yearsmlc that really helps! I will admit I have been doing alot of speaking to God in the shower.... and funny enough for the same reasons!
That is certainly a long list, and you are very right I have no excuse! I actually have had no one really give me an example of how they GAL. I am really looking forward to being back in school, I can see myself slowly growing into a lot of new things. So for the next 2 weeks I will prep for that... but I have started to see what fun and exciting things I might be able to try.
Ok so need some thoughts on this one. Last night my W clearly decided to push against the boundaries I had set up. I had asked her to keep it down if she was going to choose to talk to the OM (she is sleeping in the basement). Well last night she seem to be setting up like she has in the past for a session with him. I went to put my D8 to bed and thought I could hear my W talking. I then went into my room to settle in for the night and could definetly hear her talking. Before I could get up to go ask her to keep it down D8 got up went down stairs and told my W to keep it down. i personally think that her talking with him loudly had everything to do with me practicing detaching both last night and over the last couple days.
I think last night she might have been really feeling both my PMA (thanks to everyone here) and the fact that I'm detaching. She came up and listened to me read a story to D5... Which seemed odd... And wanted to know where I went (I spontaneously decided to buy a bottle of wine to give to a co-worker today. Because she had a really rough day yesterday) my response was simply "I needed to pick something up at the store. So just wondering is it ok that D8 took care of the problem last night? Honestly I do not want my kids involved this way at all. But she did it before I could stop her and I'm not really sure if I should have. Also D5 must have woken up in the night and crawled down to climb into bed with my W.... That hasn't happend much or at all as long as I'm here at night. I seriously can't help but see God at work here now that I've given (or am trying to as best I can) over to him.... Or her depending on your view
Last night my W clearly decided to push against the boundaries I had set up. I had asked her to keep it down if she was going to choose to talk to the OM
She pushed......and what did you do?
How exactly did you state it to her?
IDK, Andy, I realize you are learning about boundaries, but that sounds a little weak. When you set a boundary, you have to be prepared to know what YOU will do if that boundary is not honored. To me, what you told her was like saying, "When you and OM have phone sex or Internet sex (whichever it is), will you just try not to get so loud,
please?"
So, she obviously didn't care if you or her children heard her. If D8 interrupting her phone/Internet sex had no influence, I doubt you "asking" her to keep it down will. Besides, have you thought about what you will do if she doesn't? B/c she didn't, and you can't keep "asking" her b/c every time you state a boundary it weakens it. And you really didn't state it, you asked.
You have to know what you can control and what you can't. You can't control her, so that means if she doesn't honor your stated boundary, then the action has to come from you. How will you protect yourself (or your children) when a boundary is broken? That is what you have to think about before you spout off something and label it a "boundary".
If you are going to tolerate her living in the same house with you and the children while she conducts her A under the same roof, then you have to come up with a better plan to at least shield your children from her waywardness. She has no sense of sexual morals right now, and I'm sure you do not want your children exposed to what their mother is doing down in the basement. So, you have to think it through and decide what you can and can't do about it.
Your W is a serial cheater. You've had one A. This relationship is very damaged and if the two of you ever decide to try to work it out again, you better get the top professional to help and not just "look past it". That does not work.
Last night my W clearly decided to push against the boundaries I had set up. I had asked her to keep it down if she was going to choose to talk to the OM
She pushed......and what did you do?
How exactly did you state it to her?
IDK, Andy, I realize you are learning about boundaries, but that sounds a little weak. When you set a boundary, you have to be prepared to know what YOU will do if that boundary is not honored. To me, what you told her was like saying, "When you and OM have phone sex or Internet sex (whichever it is), will you just try not to get so loud,
please?"
2 things about this^^^, stick out to me.
One is what Sandi just said. It sounds weak & vague b/c you said nothing about what YOU would do IF she failed to comply (and yes, I hate that wording "comply" as if you gave her an order, but it is what it is).
It was if you were making a request of her, which is NOT setting a boundary.
NOTE: You must not set ANY boundary, if you cannot or will not follow through with the consequence you assert will follow...do you understand that??
And secondly, you have NOT let go. You are still trying to control her - instead of setting a boundary. There's a difference.
"CONTROLLING Her" is when you tell her what she can or cannot do (which is what you tried to do).
VERSUS
Setting a boundary, which is telling her what YOU will do, "if X" happens. See the difference? It may seem small - but it's a vital distinction.
So, she obviously didn't care if you or her children heard her. If D8 interrupting her phone/Internet sex had no influence, I doubt you "asking" her to keep it down will.
Besides, have you thought about what you will do if she doesn't? B/c she didn't, and you can't keep "asking" her b/c every time you state a boundary it weakens it. And you really didn't state it, you asked.
THIS^^^....You have to know what you can control and what you can't.
You can't control her, so that means if she doesn't honor your stated boundary, then the action has to come from you.
and THIS^^^How will you protect yourself (or your children) when a boundary is broken? That is what you have to think about before you spout off something and label it a "boundary".
If you are going to tolerate her living in the same house with you and the children while she conducts her A under the same roof, then you have to come up with a better plan to at least shield your children from her waywardness. She has no sense of sexual morals right now, and I'm sure you do not want your children exposed to what their mother is doing down in the basement. So, you have to think it through and decide what you can and can't do about it.
Your W is a serial cheater. You've had one A. This relationship is very damaged and if the two of you ever decide to try to work it out again, you better get the top professional to help and not just "look past it". That does not work.
I'll go back thru your thread again, to see what insights you have shared about what YOU learned from the A you had.
But 2+ affairs in a marriage, on both sides, puts you in a fragile place.
Also, how did SHE forgive you for your A, OR DID SHE? I think that may be an important thing to consider.
Did you ever wonder if there was a "tit for tat" element involved in any of this?
And finally, though this is not something your marriage can handle now and may not ever be able to,
I just want to say one thing about female male friendships.
I'm a veteran of the Army JAG Corps. When I was active duty, 85% of the JAG Corps was male. My last assignment had zero women in the office or around.
There was no way to have any friends if they were not going to be male. And no, I did not have an A.
I always invited my h to join us but he was in his medical residency and had unrelentingly long hours. In fact, during his 4 years of internship and residency,
and 3 years as a staff physician in the burn unit, we were able to have lunch ONCE...literally.
My point is, some people can manage this. I feel like I'm one of them. Maybe it's b/c I have 5 brothers, so I am used to being around men and NOT feeling sexual about them...the one time I really was tempted to have an A, it was not with a man I worked with, and I visited a chaplain and shrink to ask what the heck I was doing, b/c I was lost. Neglected, lonely, etc....my feelings were valid b/c hey, h did neglect me. I was lonely! Acting on those feelings was what I had to avoid, and did. So back to you...
However, if I or my h had a history of A's, then no, the "private friendships" would NOT be alright. Why couldn't she invite you to go along?
And btw, the men I'd occasionally do lunch with on occasion or do physical training with (we HAD to do that, by regulation)
were usually not the most handsome. Why?
Because I'm no fool. If Brad Pitt or Kevin Costner had been around then, I'd have made sure he was NOT the guy I hung with privately.
(You don't open a bottle of wine in a hotel room, with someone you KNOW you have chemistry with, b/c it's stupidly risky to put yourself in that situation).
Now, back to your thread...
Thank you Sandi and 25yearsmlc for the responses, it certainly gave me a lot to think about. A couple of things that I think that I should clarify, hopefully this won’t come off as sounding defensive. I can absolutely see what you guys are saying about boundaries. Certainly what I said and thought that I set as a boundary a week ago wasn’t. I think at the time I was taking the first step to saying something anything, that wasn’t just silence and being walked all over. But I can see how simply telling her that “she has the right to talk to whoever she wants, but that she needs to keep it down because I can, and more than likely the kids can hear her” is not a boundary it was more of a I know what you were/are doing. I also agree that that statement is more about control then anything… keep in mind that I made it before having that realization that trying to control everything is a problem.
As for last night’s conversation I’m not too sure what was going on. I certainly agree that I do not want my kids walking in on anything, or hearing anything that she might be doing. I believe that last night it was simply conversation… but I know that all of you will say “how do you know?” and honestly I don’t. How do I approach this problem? I have no idea… again still working on figuring out boundaries. The biggest problem is consequences, what is effective what is fair, what embodies change vs the same old bs. Again work in progress, and thank you for the input, it helps clarify things.
As for has she forgiven me? Well the night that she dropped the bomb on me she stated that “she truly has forgiven me for the things that I have done but that she can’t forgive herself for the things that she has said and done”. If I take that at face value then I would say that yes she has… but I’m not completely convinced. I also think that there might be an element to tit for tat going on here. I have seen that behavior before from both of us; I’ve chosen to not do it anymore.
I also agree with the stance on working with the opposite sex. I work in an ER where 95% of the people I work with are women. It makes for a delicate situation to navigate, and I completely agree with being very careful how that all plays out. I guess in the beginning that is what allowed me to have a little bit of understanding in her wanting to be there for a friend. Obviously that didn’t last long, and I probably needed to say in the beginning that it didn’t make me feel very comfortable. Again I handled that completely the wrong way, one of the many lessons that I have learned in the last year and a half.
Certainly I can appreciate the severity of how fractured my marriage is right now. I guess that is why in some of the earlier posts I have asked if this is even possible. I know that for now the most important things for me to do is work on myself, focus on detaching, and be the best dad I can be for my little girls. I really thank you for asking the hard questions as well as helping to steer me in the right direction. Your feedback really helps me reflect and also evaluate what I can be doing differently. I can only hope that as I grow and develop… and maybe one day move to fixing my marriage that I will be one of the old wise people here.
So yesterday I came home after a very long and busy day at work I came home to find a list on the counter. It was titled "things that I want to take with me". Honestly I took a quick look at it and left it right where it was. About 20 min later the W came up stairs and said she was going to the gym if that was ok. I said sure, and she asked how work was. I remained pleasant, found it odd she was going to the gym at 10pm but didn't pay it much more attention. She made a passing comment about seriou when I get back if your up. I just let that one roll off my back. Once she was gone I noticed that some of the books were missing on the shelf, along with some cups in the cupboard. So I guess this is happening she is moving out... I'm actually doing pretty good with it. Don't really know where this falls into things but hey if I'm going to learn to let go of control then I need to not worry. Anyways just a little update. Hey you reading this! Have a great day and smile it could be worse!!!
Today has been one of those all over the board kind of days. I did my best today to dodge many attempts by my W to keep tabs on me today. Really tried to practice being more mysterious, and showing happiness. Had a very good personal counseling session today. We are going to start some good work on "control". Unfortunately when I got home more books packed up, and more behavior by my W to get a rise out of me. I am becoming increasingly convinced that her moving out is probably a good thing at this point. I'm curious to hear what people have to say on this. I also know that at this point it's really out of my control.... She will it won't move out based on she decides and not on what I do or don't do.
She also threw a little fit tonight about coming to my D's hockey practice. D8 plays hockey and we were all going to go to practice. She had made some passing comment about not going so she could nap before work. Historically this has not been a nap but another session with the OM. But D5 wanted to go, so she tried her best to convince D5 not to go. It worked, but then D5 changed her mind. W got really snarky, and I just said "fine I'll just take both girls, this isn't worth all this drama". In attempts to let go I'm trying my best to not think this has to do with OM. But I'm struggling with it.... I know detach detach.... I'm trying my friends I'm trying...
"I did my best today to dodge many attempts by my W to keep tabs on me today."
I don't get why you're doing this. You shouldn't have to "dodge" anything. Just do what you want to do. You are right that you don't have control over your W, but you can continue to do what you want to do for you.
What I actualy meant by this is when she would ask what I was up to i wasn't super specific. Just told her the basic info and that was it. She wanted to know when and where I was going to be and tried to get me to lay out my whole day. She tried a couple of times to get more detail on what I was up to. She simply just didn't need to know. That has been the advice given here... Let me know if I have misinterpreted it. I wasn't cold or angry.
I have no idea… again still working on figuring out boundaries. The biggest problem is consequences, what is effective what is fair, what embodies change vs the same old bs. Again work in progress, and thank you for the input, it helps clarify things.
The purpose is not for
you to assign consequences for her. She may feel a certain amount, or she may not....but that is not the focus behind boundaries. I made the mistake one time of not explaining that point very well to a newcomer, so I want you to understand it is not to punish her or control her. That is not your job. If she's smart, she'll figure out it is due to her actions, but she may not care. So, be wise in what you say & do.
It's like when you put a fence around your property. It is for protection. You decide what comes in and what doesn't. You can't control what goes on outside the fence, but it becomes your business when it tries to cross that barrier. Personal boundaries are like invisible fences. It is up to you what is allowed inside that boundary, and if it is something you won't live with....then you figure out what to do. Most of us respect personal, religious, ethical, moral and relationship boundaries. But some do not, and then it is up to us to protect ourselves. For example, does having an open marriage go against what you believe? Would you stay in a M with a S who brought a third person into the M?
Ask yourself if you would allow anyone to openly and knowingly disrespect you? Would you let someone come in your home and harm your children? Would sit by and watch someone burn down your house, or steal from your family? Will you tolerate lies, betrayal, disloyalty, berating, etc. inside your personal boundary/fence? If not, then you have to decide what you can do to protect yourself, your kids, your property, etc. You don't do it by appointing yourself as the punisher for the person who does those things, but you respond in a mature, effective, (and legal) manner, without
you inflicting violence or injury to the other person.
Have you ever had anyone (beside your W) to disrespect you, lie, betray you, or destroy something that belonged to you? Everyone needs personal boundaries to know what they will not live
without.....and what they won't tolerate.
Say you had a buddy you thought was a pretty good friend. But then you discover he has told a bunch of destructive lies and it caused you to lose your job and the respect of several people. You probably would end that friendship b/c you won't be pals with anyone who treats you in that way. That is a boundary. You don't have to necessarily do something "to" him, but
you stop being any sort of pal of his. You do not include him in your life any longer. There is no more contact with him. You removed yourself from the friendship. Get the picture?
BTW, if your W moves out, are the children staying there with you?
Have you spoken with anyone about your legal rights as a father?
Thanks Sandi that makes a lot of sense and I think for the first time I actually understand what is meant by boundaries. I also agree with you previous comment about what I said being kinda weak, it absolutely was. I’m still trying to figure out how I go about addressing this effectively. I will report that one of the results of last week’s conversation is my W seems more driven to move out. Unfortunately it has opened a whole can of worms about splitting up our stuff, but I also found myself saying for the first time last night to my best friend that I think that is what needs to happen right now. I know that some people will say that it’s a good thing that she is still in the house, and on one hand I can see the merit in that. On the other (which I think might be getting into the boundary issue) I feel that I simply can’t tolerate a lot of my W actions anymore. I’m tired of hearing her talk to the OM late at night through the heating vents. I’m tired of hearing her phone bing with his texts etc. etc. etc. all of the things that have set me off and I have posted here. Really I guess I’m tired of feeling embattled in my own home. I know this all means that by no means have a let go. I know I haven’t detached, but I also know that every time I feel like I’m finally getting some place with my own PMA, something in regards to her A gets slapped in my face. I don’t mean to have this be conveyed that I am the victim, I’m not I have let her walk all over me, I haven’t put up any fences at all. So I think this is what needs to happen, some space some room to breathe, room to focus on myself and my kids.
As for when my W moves out, yes the kids will be with me. Part of the Bomb conversation was her stating that she wanted the kids to stay with me. That position hasn't really changed that much, and the only time I see any remorse in her is when child support gets mentioned. I do have a lawyer and about a week after the BD I found out legally what my rights were. As it stands right now it looks like I will have them the majority of the time (placement wise ) but that we will share custody of the kids (the legal decision making aspect of things). Every conversation I have had with my W in the last few weeks, she seems to be operating from the notion that everything will continue as it has been only she will live someplace else. Last Thursday was the first time that I explained to her that that wasn't going to be the case. I explained to her that the morning and afternoon routines were going to change, that on the days that the kids were with me I would take care of the logistics of getting them to and from school. When she said that “we shouldn’t change things because the kids were used to this routine.” I simply explained to her that with her moving out the kids and I needed to learn what the new normal would be. It wasn't necessary for her to come to the house, pick the kids up and take them to school because my new class schedule allowed me to do it. I really wasn't putting it out there as a consequence but just simply as a life if going to change, our family dynamic is going to change, and I’m not going to simply continue doing what we have been doing. Am I wrong in this line of thinking? Likewise on her days off she will have the kids, I won’t be driving up to her place to pick the kids up and taking them to school, that’s her responsibility.
When she said that “we shouldn’t change things because the kids were used to this routine.” I simply explained to her that with her moving out the kids and I needed to learn what the new normal would be. It wasn't necessary for her to come to the house, pick the kids up and take them to school because my new class schedule allowed me to do it. I really wasn't putting it out there as a consequence but just simply as a life if going to change, our family dynamic is going to change, and I’m not going to simply continue doing what we have been doing. Am I wrong in this line of thinking?
No, your line of thinking is not wrong, IMO. You gave her an explanation without really rubbing it in her face as much as a lot of H's would do. I think it was a good answer.
Here's the thing with a WW in an A, she wants everything that she likes to stay the same......as long as it is convenient for her. Family events, child care (school, overnights, weekends, holidays, etc.) scheduling, etc. But don't expect her to be consistent, even if it is according to her own scheduling. And, of course.....she still expects her H to pay for everything he did when she lived with him. Moving out, for her, had no bearing on you paying her expenses (in her mind). It is just so crazy.
Very few are able to reason with a WW, so just know what you need to do and stick to your plan. Be braced for any and all surprises she may pull. Get legal and financial advice and protect.....protect....protect.
Separation can work in a positive way for some. It gives you a break from a lot of stuff.
"I did my best today to dodge many attempts by my W to keep tabs on me today."
I don't get why you're doing this. You shouldn't have to "dodge" anything. Just do what you want to do. You are right that you don't have control over your W, but you can continue to do what you want to do for you.
THIS^^^^...good stuff.
FWIW, I don't think she's doing ANY of this to get a "rise" out of you. I think she's planning on leaving, and my question for you is, have you seen a lawyer?
Seeing a lawyer can be very empowering and it does NOT mean you must "Do" something..."anything".
You need do nothing. But I'd sure want to know my rights before I let my angry or cheating spouse decide who gets what.
Is she assuming her "list" is something you are now consenting to, b/c hey, 'silence is consent"? (And Sometimes it looks like that to a judge). If you fear losing your temper, then write something down to her, maybe like
"W, I don't want a divorce, though I agree that our old marriage should die, in order for us rebuild a better m. Even so, I won't stand in your way if you want to leave. However, Just so you know, I don't think your 'want' list is fair to me or the kids"...
Of course say this only iF you actually feel ^^that it's unfair, that is. Also, she's leaving you with the kids, correct?
If so, that is highly unusual. May I assume she knows SHE will need to pay some child support, to you?
My guess is, she doesn't know that. But a separation will actually show her things that no words can..
So no, all is not lost if she leaves. In some ways it'll be easier for you. Less tension for one. And later, your changes will be easier for her to notice b/c it's hard to see change when you interact on a daily basis.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Oh sorry I missed the post from/to Sandi.
You have seen a L (yay) and your answers were great. You are doing well.
IF you stay the course (doing the DB work and boundaries) you have a chance at turning things around if you are also doing your 180s.
Your wife won't return to a marriage she left, unless she believes the marriage can be better/different than before.
From your own words, you more or less feel the same way. So do your work and change what you can/want to, in yourself.
So that you demonstrate that the marriage would be different/better/ b/c you are better/different than before.
Later, you can address what you need FROM her, b/c now is not the time.
Why do I say ^^ that? Why do I suggest you wait to let her know what SHE would need to do to reconcile?
B/c you are here trying to save your marriage, she's not.
Give this TIME.
Consistent change on your part + sufficient time = change she can believe in.
Keep up the great work. Be the best dad you can be, & stay strong and upbeat.
You really will be more than alright, no matter your wife says/does.
Thanks for the responses. yup def have seen a lawyer and am doing my best with his advice to protect myself as best as I can. I absolutely see what you are saying Sandi about only wanting change where is suits her, and leaving everything else the same. I see that all the time here. Even in her comments from time to time... like nothing is about to change like this whole thing isn't a thought in her mind. Honestly it is those times, or moments where I somehow build up hope, and I'm learning that this isn't helpful. In fact it is probably down right wrong.
25yearsmlc I absolutely see what you are saying. I am working really hard to change myself and be a better person all around. I actually think that right that living together is impeding this a bit. I keep getting drawn into her storm that has nothing to do with me... and I probably have lingering feelings of wanting to try and fix/help her out. Its her journey and I can't, I shouldn't and I won't. I do care about her, but I also know that if she doesn't walk this path on her own there really is no hope.
I am doing the good hard work that comes with changing my own mental outlook there are so many inspirational stories out there. I can't help but be grateful for people allowing me to share my story and offering comments/encouragement. I also agree with you that trying to demonstrate any change is hard when we see each other everyday. It is also hard to truly go through the changing process when my W continues to pull me into the drama... whether intentionally or not. I guess it comes down to, its hard enough to make my own big changes. Its even harder to do them trying to navigate around someone who is in their own [censored] storm.
Lastly I just want to share this... I try to keep it in mind
You either walk inside your story and own it or you stand outside your story and hustle for your worthiness. ~ Brene Brown
So I know I'm probsbly going to get blasted for saying this... But my W decided that this morning when she got home from work she wanted to talk about splitting stuff up and her moving out. In that conversation she said "well you said we couldn't couldn't continue to live like this the other day". .... Basically it left me feeling like I've now pushed her out... And honestly like ice just doomed things.... I know this isn't a valid statement but I'm trying to adopt the policy of posting the good and the bad... Both in my sitch and how I'm feeling about things.... There was also a lot of teary eyes on both our parts.
On the plus side I changed the way the conversation was conducted. Allowed myself to listen and validate her feelings where appropriate. Work in progress... Also on the GAL I'm going out to work party tonight... And I actually went out and bought a nice shirt and tie. In the past I haven't gone to these sort of things.
Basically it left me feeling like I've now pushed her out... And honestly like ice just doomed things
Her
choices are why she's moving out and whether or not things are doomed. If respecting yourself means she can't bring another person into the M, then why would you say YOU pushed her out? Were you willing to continue the way things have been recently?
If you will act as if you are already D from her, it will be the best thing for both of you. You will learn to detach and move on with your life. She will get a reality check and maybe come out of the fog. I can see how being separated would be emotionally better. There have been others who S and when the WAW finally got her head together, they were able to reconcile. However, many couples try to have in-house S (whichne er works) and things continue to get worse until she divorces him.
Thanks Sandi... You are right it is her choices that are causing the move along with the hard stuff right now. After I posted here I turned to my best friend and his wife to vent to. They asked me the tough question... Did she say she was going to change? Is she giving up on the negative choices? I said no, to which they replied then she needs to move out. At first it will suck but it will allow room for happy Andy to return.
I think I'm going to give acting as if I'm already D from her. I agree with you that it might just make things easier right now. The start of school and this crazy new adventure is about to begin. It's going to take a lot of my focus so I need to have my head in the game there. It simply can't be if she continues to do what she is doing and living in the house.
So last night I finally did something for myself... And it was a lot of fun. Also it let me see just how much support is out there for me from my coworkers. The day before I went out bought a couple of nice shirts and ties so I felt and looked good. It was a great time.
Also wanted to say that here a couple of the people I've been learning from
Brene Brown... Really good for learning how to open up
Rick Hanson ... Really good positive stuff on learning to find happiness even in this kind of sitch.
Have a look there are tons of interviews with them on you tube
Basically it left me feeling like I've now pushed her out... And honestly like ice just doomed things
Her
choices are why she's moving out and whether or not things are doomed. If respecting yourself means she can't bring another person into the M, then why would you say YOU pushed her out? Were you willing to continue the way things have been recently?
If you will act as if you are already D from her, it will be the best thing for both of you. You will learn to detach and move on with your life. She will get a reality check and maybe come out of the fog. I can see how being separated would be emotionally better. There have been others who S and when the WAW finally got her head together, they were able to reconcile. However, many couples try to have in-house S (which never works) and things continue to get worse until she divorces him.
I'm agreeing with Sandi's advice for your sitch here. I don't know if you ever read my story, but my H became sort of obsessed with Russia and Russian women, and had a slew of EAs and PAs with women living in Russia. After standing around 5 years, living together in our home, I finally got fed up and gave him an ultimatum, his current Russian girlfriend or me. He chose her, I filed for D (final last May), kicked him out, and he moved to Moscow last August.
Now, after 5 months, my ex has returned to the US. He sent me a couple of emails apologizing for running away to Russia (but NOT for his affairs). He claimed that he is a changed man, realizes he still loves me and wants to come home.
I do not feel he has done the work necessary to change at all, and that these are just words, he is reading from the next page in the MLC script, but they are words I've never heard from him before. I am beyond done with him and would not take him back in any circumstances, but Sandi's statement that maybe if you "detach and move on with your life, maybe your W will get a reality check and come out of the fog," made me think that maybe if I had done this earlier, instead of waiting 5 years, maybe things might have turned out differently.
Hey Linda great to hear from you. I have popped over and read your sitch… wow does it in some ways remind me of what I am going through… Hell at one point she had bought yogurt that was made in Australia. I didn’t realize it until later when I was throwing it out because it never got eaten. I kinda wondered why I hadn’t heard from you, but also thought that with some of the forum heavy weights offering advice if that might have been the reason.
I really appreciate the list that you posted on the 29th it helped me to try and focus on the good things, where I can. I also noticed from one of your threads that Cadet had posted some links to read up on. I will try and take a look at those too. The GAL endeavors continue. Last night I went out again to a going away party for a co-worker. It was definitely a win win for me, and here is why. My W decided to get up for the packer game (probably because that has been one of the big links between her and OM). She was obviously tired by the end of the game, as she chose to actually come and watch our D’s hockey games after work. Instead of me doing/being suckered into changing my plans because she was tired I chose to head out to the party. I had a really good evening.
Ok so I guess the question is so what? Well here is the thing, for me stepping out on my own and taking time for me is a huge 180. If this had been a year ago I never would have left the house… I probably wouldn’t have even gone to the fancy party the night before. Especially if my W had started putting the kind of subtle pressure on me that she was. I would have stayed in and made an excuse as to why I didn’t go despite saying I’d be there. There is other reasons I would have stayed…. When my W is tired she has a short fuse. That almost always leads to her being mean and angry with the kids. I hate it, and have tried to shelter them as best as I can from it. But it has come at a cost to me; I would get very little time to myself. I always felt I had to be there to instantly break it up any fighting or anger. Don’t get me wrong if I felt it was remotely a safety issue we would be gone, I have just been overly protective.
The other great thing was that once I was out I had a great time! The kind words of support I have received from my co-workers have been over the top. They have been very encouraging of me going back to school, as well as my whole sitch. I can’t say enough about how much that has helped, to know I have support, people that care and people that want to see the best for me has been amazing. I know this journey is my own and something that I need to do for and by myself… but it certainly helps to have people give you that shot in the arm when you need it.
As for the drama at home well nothing has changed. I will continue to hope that something positive is right around the corner, but I also know I have no idea how close or far I am away from that corner. The plans remain the same, she is choosing to move out, right around my D8 birthday (which [censored] and is totally shitty!! But hey I can’t control that). The ever looming life change of school is getting closer and closer. Again excited and scared all wrapped up into one! Please feel free to ask any questions or offer comment. Thank you again for all the posts, and keeping an eye on my sitch. It will perpetually be a roller coaster for the foreseeable future…. I am learning to accept that…. I will continue to post here the good and the bad. Because after all “You either walk inside your story and own it or you stand outside your story & hustle for your worthiness.” ~ Brene Brown
I just wanted to share this too... Again I'm on a big kick of trying to find people to inspire me to become that better person...
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly.” ~ Brene Brown quoting Teddy Roosevelt
Because after all isn't this truly what we are doing here Divorce Busting? I personally believe so, and believe that we are all the man/woman in the arena. and those vetrans on here are the ones encouraging us to stand back up
Ok so today I’m having a little bit of a dilemma, maybe one of you can offer some insight. Obviously over the last few days you have read about how I’m learning to, and practically GAL. I have really enjoyed it and it has felt really good simply to take back some aspects of my life again. I’m enjoying how things are steadily improving for me; I’m enjoying the feeling of happiness that is creeping in. But at the same time, it’s becoming very apparent that when I’m home and having to deal with my W’s little bits of BS I don’t want her there anymore. Her level of self-absorbedness is becoming glaringly apparent, and honestly I’m tired of supporting it. Yesterday or the day before she started to address me by my first name (something that isn’t normally done) at first it bothered me a little bit, but then I just shrugged it off. It didn’t however go over both my D’s head. They made a point of saying something about it. Later at dinner we were all sitting down eating and Bing went her phone (historically this has been the OM). She then must have put the phone on vibrate because it didn’t Bing but would buzz and she would answer. Just as soon as my D’s were done with dinner I got up cleaned up their plates and began cleaning up dinner dishes (I also hummed to myself while I did the dishes, just a happy little tune to keep me focused). Later that night my W decided to go to the gym, so I was left to put D5 to bed… not a problem we have a great time at bedtime. When I went to put D8 to bed she made no effort to go say good night to her Mom, and honestly I didn’t push her to like I have in the past. At random later that evening my W sent me a Pinterest message with an wood working project… it was just odd time for it to come… and as I sit here typing this I realize that those have come in the past, after I have overheard some session with the OM.
Anyways this morning I really just felt that I simply don’t care anymore. That her moving out is going to be a good thing. That I’m tired and done…. And don’t want to keep on living this negative life. It was also coupled with a great feeling of joy as I thought about the next step in this adventure. Monday I start school, today I was able to elicit the help of some female friends to advise me on style and fashion. Like I told them I want to be the good looking single Dad not the down and frumpy looking one. I guess my question is, is this line of thinking ok? Can it exist and I can still take the DB approach? Does this come as you detach more? If you were to ask me if I still want my marriage to work out? If I still love my wife and don’t believe that divorce is the answer to our problems, my response would be yes. I just feel that right now her moving out is probably a really good thing… Maybe it’s that I need my own space right now, free of the constant barrage of BS that is her S@#t storm. My kids I think need it too. I don’t know…. thoughts? Good? Bad? Normal?
Holy crap that is it I just punched out for the last time at my job... am about to go buy school books, and start down this new road.
Dude, you are detaching and it is a good thing. You stopped waking up in the world of hurt and stopped going to bed with shards of glass in your heart. You came to realize what is toxic for you at this time.
But do be careful with female help, you are vulnerable right now and you might misinterpret signals from your W friends and it could get you in a whole lot of hot water. And trust me, you are not ready to jump head first into a new R. Quit trying to find a bandaid for your broken heart. Think about it, you are coming from one the worst thing that can hit you, you are shaken, to put it mildly and it is not fair to the other person...
Take care dude, vent away, we understand, you will not find a more understanding group of people...
Hey Vapo thanks for the advice. They are actually not my W friends but my best friends wife, and a couple of coworkers. I definitely agree with you I don't want to be walking into any kind of R right now. But I will keep your advice in mind if I think that I'm getting some kind of signals (from my coworkers not my best friends wife
)
On the venting side tonight has been pretty tough... I guess this morning my W decided that she was going to talk to my D8 about sleeping arrangements at her new place. That sent my D8 into a negative spiral all day, and by the time she got home she was acting out. When I came home tonight she had been sent to her room. My W showed no signs of letting her out, and despite not wanting to undermine my W, I decided to talk to D8. It all came out in a rush... she is really upset that this is happening, that my W is moving out and that we are getting D. I tried as best I could to listen validate her feelings and tell her it will be ok. very VERY hard. My W was nonexistent... very frustrating...
Congratulations Andy, on starting school on Monday. Lots of big changes in your life -- 2015 is going to be a hard but great year for you! Please please take care of yourself though. Nursing school is
HARD, as is filing for D, having your W move out, suddenly becoming a single parent. Stress is a killer, and lots and lots of LBS, including myself, have worn themselves and their immune systems down to the point of getting really sick. I've read posters who said they got ulcers, came down with autoimmune diseases, skin conditions, even a couple who got cancer. After working as a nurse for over 30 years, and being healthy as a horse, being exposed to and fighting off all kinds of germs, I contracted Hepatitis C 5 months after bomb drop. And honestly do not think that was a coincidence. Please take good care of yourself.
Monday I start school, today I was able to elicit the help of some female friends to advise me on style and fashion. Like I told them I want to be the good looking single Dad not the down and frumpy looking one.
This made me laugh. You will feel better about yourself if you do not look frumpy, and will be more attractive to your wife too, remember you are turning yourself into the man only a fool would leave! But I agree with Vapo, be wary of getting into a new relationship at this point. The DB Process works, honestly, but you have to follow all of the steps and do all of the work. The step you're on is detaching, and you sound as if you ARE really starting to detach.
I guess my question is, is this line of thinking ok? Can it exist and I can still take the DB approach? Does this come as you detach more? If you were to ask me if I still want my marriage to work out? If I still love my wife and don’t believe that divorce is the answer to our problems, my response would be yes. I just feel that right now her moving out is probably a really good thing… Maybe it’s that I need my own space right now, free of the constant barrage of BS that is her S@#t storm. My kids I think need it too. I don’t know…. thoughts? Good? Bad? Normal?
In my opinion, for what it's worth LOL, it will be good for you and your girls to have your own place (I am assuming the kids will be with you most of the time?) and escape from the spew. That must be hard and hurtful to your girls too, to see their dad treated like that. Divorce is really hard on everyone. When is she moving?
So.....how did your first day of school go? Hope you are not in the north east and got snowed out!
Hey Linda thanks for the responses, sorry I've been MIA for the last week or so. Lots was going on..... so where do I start.... well the first week of school is done... well almost done, one more class (with a quiz. Chem was hit the ground running!!). Its been a flood of feelings starting back to school, feels good, feels like I'm in control of my life again ( at least in this regard). Its also scary getting back into being a student, lots of new habits to form, but I think that so far I'm taking it on pretty good. I've added to my morning routine to hit the gym. Its been nice to do that, certainly helps keep the depression at bay, and I think is helping to contribute to the a PMA. I have been joking with my best friend and hit wife about all the changes. We are calling it operation - anti frumpy single Dad. Look good feel good... I think this fits into the whole DBing but not completely sure how. Maybe like you said Linda, be a husband she would be a fool to leave.
Unfortunately I think that my wife is going the way of the fool. On Monday she gets the keys to her new place. It has been such a long drawn out process. I'm still not to sure if he moving out helps my DB cause or not. I certainly have been coming around to the thought that my and my girls need the space. D8 put it perfectly last night "Dad once Mom moves out then there won't be so much craziness here. The big issue won't be talked about as much anymore." I think that she put that rather perfectly. I also feel the same way, we need our space to learn a new normal and not be subjected to my W selfishness. Again detaching? or giving up? I'm certainly coming to terms with the fact that once she is gone that just might be it. Don't like it, but can't control it.
I honestly do not know how many people read these posts, but just to put it out there I want to comment on something.... maybe it will help new people maybe not.... I think that there is something to be said about thinking too much about the OM/W. When you do it gives him/her and your spouse way too much power. I will speak to my own sitch here. For almost a year I had thought (almost constantly) about them. What I did wrong, what they were doing, what I could find out, etc. It was completely unhealthy!! and honestly, didn't and doesn't change a thing. IT absolutely consumed me.... took way to much of my own energy and gave it to them. So if you are new to this, one of the biggest and probably hardest things you need to do is [b]stop thinking about it. Stop giving them that power over you!![/b] Take all of that energy and put it into something else (hopefully something for you). Its freeing in a way that I can't really explain... but once you do it you realize that life is a little bit brighter... and that OM/W becomes less significant. I found that it wasn't until I finally realized this that I could truly start to heal myself. I by no means am there yet, but I'm a work in progress. Hopefully other DBer's that are way more senior to me and offer some comments here on this.
And finally WTF is going on with my W.... well the BS continues. I do see in some small ways that as I have pulled away and into my own life (and as she heads towards moving out) she has shown a little interest. I'm not biting... not yet... she has a ton of her own work to do. The OM is still around.. or someone new (honestly I only slightly care). She has tried a few times to manipulate me, and she is learning that its not working anymore (well maybe a little here or there but not much). I'm still trying to find that balance in dealing with her, I have my bad days, but I think that will improve immensely once she moves out and I have my own space. Anyways that is really it... I really appreciate the comments and advice please keep it up, I have re-read it on my bad days when I need a boost that I'm doing that right things. I also know that I'm doing the best I can with this... good days and bad days.
I've just got a minute Andy, but wanted to say well done with school, your next step in Operation AFSD (anti frumpy single dad) LOL. I loved chemistry too, I think organic chem was my favorite college subject!
Your daughter sounds pretty mature for her age. It's a little scary when they say stuff like that and we realize how much all their parents' tension/craziness truly affects them, huh?
Excellent advice on not letting the OP into our heads. I learned that about my H's OW, they had so much power over me for years. I kept comparing myself to learn what they had that I did not - were they younger, prettier, taller (one of my ex's big complaints was that I am too short sigh....LOL). But finally it really sunk in that they were just bandaids, symptoms really. In both of our spouses' cases these people are not even really real to them, sort of a fantasy lover in another country. Someone to flirt with and long to be with safely, cause it's not possible in real life. The fantasy is always better than the reality, which is why my ex has come back from Moscow after just 5 months. You are doing a heck of a lot better than I did at your stage in your sitch. Good work on not letting her manipulate you too
Oh and you say you are not sure how many people read your posts - I will tell you a secret - the answer is plenty. Not too many people reply but a heck of a lot read, so keep giving the excellent advice. If you go to the For Newcomers home page and scroll down to your thread, you will see how many posts have been made on your thread (this will be your 96th, so you will need to start a new thread soon, when it hits 100) but you can also see how many people have read your thread. 2065 as of this minute. I bet that number will be a lot higher by the time you get around to looking
Just a little update on what is going on here... hopefully you guys can offer a little bit on insight. So as you have all read today my W gets the keys to her new place. She decided on Sat night that she wanted to talk about logistics of her moving out. While I wasn't thrilled about having it, I decided that it needed to happen one way or another. I was very civil with everything, I tried my best to smile, I offered some suggestions on how she could move certain things. People have told me not to help her move at all.... I can't bring myself along with this line of thinking, honestly its just not me. I think that in the end I won't help her with everything, and will certainly do what I can on my time table not hers, but will give her a hand. If for nothing else then to help the transition with my kids (and yes they are going to be staying with me primarily, incase anyone was wondering ). Also that morning I was informed by one of my best friends that she had sent out a mass message via Facebook to some of our friends stating our sitch. That she had ultimately decided to end our marriage, and that any questions or support could be sent both our ways. That was the start of what turned into a very odd weekend dealing with her.
So that being said yesterday was just a messed up day. It began with a lot of snow here and all of us having a stay home kinda day. When my W finally emerged from her room downstairs she decided to organize the pantry.... this just boggled my mind! Yes it certainly needed to be done, but why she decided to do it yesterday was beyond me. After she had picked through all of the little things that had expired and organized things, she began talking about what we should probably stock up on. UUUMMMMM what?!? You are moving out? You are getting yours keys tomorrow, we had a conversation about moving last night.... WHAT?!?! I agreed with her assessment of what we needed, but didn't offer much comment. I talked a bit about general organization in the kitchen (things I was going to do) and she continued to talk like she wasn't leaving. She then went down to her room (which is in a stage of being packed up) pack some more things, but again came up stairs did some meal planning for the week and the line of conversation continued.
Obviously I'm not deceived or distracted by this conversation in anyway. I know that she is moving out, and that in 2 weeks she will be out and in her new place. I'm just at a loss for this behavior. I described it to my best friend as feeling like I was living with someone who is bipolar. He kinda agreed and did a lot to show me support where he could. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Also later in the afternoon she decided that she wanted to get some beer for the supper bowl and do some drinking.... at home with me. Again odd, this probably hasn't happen since eh summer when I thought we were actually getting better. We proceeded to drink a fair bit, but then along came texting the OM, and it was back to the same old BS. Luckily as this happened the game was ending and I choose to get up and tend to my kids. Honestly I'm just at a loss here... I'm comfortable in not really knowing at this point, every day I become more detached. Again just at a loss, kinda confused... and maybe empathetic to the fact that she really is lost and confused.
And to top it all off last night was a real struggle for my D8 (one week she will be D9). I think she saw smiler behavior in my W that I was seeing from this summer. The evening ended with my snuggling with her a bit while she cried and I told her it would be ok. I sang to her a bit and she basically silently sobbed in my arms. She is trying to be strong, and I'm trying to tell her she needs to let it out. Obviously after that I was really feeling the pain of this.... definitely a very hard ending to my strange weekend.
Have people been here before? Has anyone had similar things happen like this? Linda I know you and I seem to be sharing similarities in our sitch, any thoughts? Also I'm still struggling with what her moving out really means... is it the end? Does it support the DBing stance?
Have people been here before?
Has anyone had similar things happen like this?
Linda I know you and I seem to be sharing similarities in our sitch, any thoughts?
Also I'm still struggling with what her moving out really means... is it the end?
Does it support the DBing stance?
Yes seen this before many times
THE END actually is in YOUR hands, YOU DECIDE.
I used to say the end is when they put YOU in a box.
Why you might ask?
Because YES this is part of the SCRIPT and their CRISIS can not continue until the marriage is destroyed.
SO YES DB'ing supports what you are doing,
I do agree that you should let her do the work on her own.
Why should you help her destroy your marriage?
She is perfectly capable of doing it all by herself.
Once she moves out it will be easier to have better boundaries.
DIVORCE is actually one of the ultimate BOUNDARIES.
So I understand that you want to help her,
you have probably always helped her throughout your marriage.
Dont you think a 180 would be just to LET GO?
today my W gets the keys to her new place. She decided on Sat night that she wanted to talk about logistics of her moving out. While I wasn't thrilled about having it, I decided that it needed to happen one way or another. I was very civil with everything, I tried my best to smile, I offered some suggestions on how she could move certain things.
I know it breaks your heart, but believe me Andy, the fact that your wife moves out does NOT necessarily mean the end of your marriage. It is just the next step that your wife feels she must take in her elusive quest for happiness. There are a couple of people whose spouses moved out, who later reconciled. Two I can think of off the top of my head are Raine and ReachingHigher. In fact, ReachingHigher's husband decided to give their marriage another try while standing in front of the judge in DIVORCE COURT!!
I agree with Cadet, it will be easier for you to set boundaries to protect yourself and your kids once your wife moves out. And hopefully, she'll finally realize that you're the man only an idiot would leave, and come back to you. Good for you in deciding that's it's something that needs to happen, and for deciding to be civil and helpful about it. This is something she feels the need to do, and you need to let her do it. URWorthy used to tell me all the time that my husband needed to "feel the loss of me" before he would be able to truly see me again. But I never let him feel the loss, I not only did not kick him out, I let him stay in our home for 3 months after we were officially divorced. It did not serve me well at all, so let your wife go on, and complete this journey she's started. They do need to go thru every step, and they must do it alone. Cadet is always saying that we did not break them and cannot fix them, and it's true.
When my W finally emerged from her room downstairs she decided to organize the pantry.... this just boggled my mind! Yes it certainly needed to be done, but why she decided to do it yesterday was beyond me. After she had picked through all of the little things that had expired and organized things, she began talking about what we should probably stock up on. UUUMMMMM what?!? You are moving out? You are getting yours keys tomorrow, we had a conversation about moving last night.... WHAT?!?!
I don't know why it is Andy, but most of us LBSs have stories of our spouses acting odd and contradictory. Bipolar disorder is a good analogy! I often thought maybe my ex was becoming psychotic. He went thru a spell once where, for about a month, he moved his toothbrush to a different spot in the bathroom every day. So strange.... And when his Lyme Disease returned (he has a bad case and had been on intravenous antibiotics for 9 months) he refused to go back on antibiotics and decided to eat fermented oatmeal instead. Honest to God, he would mix oatmeal with yogurt and leave it in the boiler room until it was rotten, and then eat it instead of antibiotics. He has not given me flowers for years, but sent me roses last Christmas. Even the fact that your wife is obsessed with Australia and mine with Russia is bizarre.
I was informed by one of my best friends that she had sent out a mass message via Facebook to some of our friends stating our sitch. That she had ultimately decided to end our marriage, and that any questions or support could be sent both our ways.
I'm sorry she did this before you were ready to share your life story with your friends and family. My ex did almost the same thing -- sent out a mass email informing everyone that I have been cheating on him our entire married life, that I am a big phony who acts nice and sweet but they should try to see thru my big act, and that I had attempted to POISON him. Sigh... It was SO embarrassing.
When is your wife leaving? How will it work out with your daughters and you in school full time?
PS Did you read what I wrote above about how many people read your thread? It had 2,065 views at 1:40 pm on Jan 31st, it has 2,200 as of right now. And you need to start a new one!