Hello -- I can't remember how to link to my previous posts, but it may be unnecessary because I have really turned a corner. After visiting family out of state for Thanksgiving, and visiting friends and family in another state recently, I have gained a new perspective on my life, and what I want, and the person that my H has become. I am ready to move on with my life and am really excited to do so. I met with a lawyer and spoke to H about moving forward with the dissolution as soon as possible -- and addressed the fact that I'll be moving (preferably with D14) to my home state where I have a job and family support. So far so good. He seems to understand. I'm hoping to keep it amicable, and I wish him well, as my daughter's father. But I am also really, really happy to release him, and, in the process, release myself. For the first time in six months, I feel like myself again. I have direction and purpose, and I'm addressing my financial, physical, and emotional needs -- because no one else will, right? I'll be waiting out the school year to get daughter through school, but then moving on. Best of luck to all of you in your respective journeys, and thank you for all the support you've given. I wish you all peace and happiness.
Hey Ahoy- Glad you posted an update. So you were comfortable with what the lawyer told you? I know you were concerned about the whole D process.
That's great news Ahoy! I hope the process and your moving plans go smoothly. Keep us updated on your life?
Big hug,
Lisa
Im glad your doing so well.
raliced, yes, the lawyer said it was okay to handle it as a dissolution and keep it amicable, so I was relieved not to have to file for divorce with grounds and all that. Of course, I'm bracing myself for rough patches that may arise as we hammer out the agreement, but it's really just logistics at this point. With any luck, we can finalize the dissolution by mid-March, assuming H doesn't drag his feet. A lot of what held me back was fear -- fear of being alone, fear of the financial issues, fear of H trying to take everything away from me. Then I realized that he had already taken everything that I really valued (family, security, love), so I really don't have much to lose at this point! There's money, but it's just money. And there's time with my daughter, but he's already taking that, and I know he wants what is in her best interest, so I believe, based on what he's said so far, that he will let me take her with me when I relocate, and he will have her for summers and holidays. It's not ideal for D14, but this is the path he has chosen, and I have to make the best of it for me and my daughter. Fear isn't holding me back anymore. I'm choosing to embrace this new direction in my life and learn and grow from the experience.
Ahoy, you are sounding so strong and at peace with things. Good for you! Good luck with the move.
Big hugs to you, Ahoy! Go get what you need and want!
A lot of what held me back was fear -- fear of being alone, fear of the financial issues, fear of H trying to take everything away from me.
Fear isn't holding me back anymore. I'm choosing to embrace this new direction in my life and learn and grow from the experience.
This is huge, Ahoy. And I completely understand it. I came to realize fairly early on that I was coming from a place of fear. And I looked at my fears and realized they could be dealt with. Good for you, you sound very strong.
Awesome! You sound very strong and determined. Good for you!
Hi Ahoy, great to hear you so positive. You seem to be doing well . Please keep us updated on how you are getting on as you have been a great friend to me and to others. If you ever get near to Ireland, hell, europe, please let me know because I would love to high five you !!!!!! Knowing there are women as strong as you about gives us men hope that our own WAW may find some inner strengh.
Have a great Christmas and a very very very happy new year !!!!!!
thanks for all the support and advice, RD
rd, I would love to make it to Ireland one day for a high-five! We will both deserve one, no doubt. Keep being the awesome dad and person that you are. Happy holidays and best wishes for the New Year!
Hey Ahoy,
Just checking in and making sure your week continued to run smoothly. So glad to read your positive posts lately. Keep us updated, ok?
Thanks, raliced! Yes, I'm still feeling really good about my decision. Just waiting for H to give me his financial info and tell me if he would prefer to keep or sell the house, then I can put together an agreement for him to review. I'm waiting to tell D14 about the move until I've worked out all the details. I'm happy and excited to have a plan in place for moving forward with my life. It's interesting -- the person that H is having an affair with is not even that fit or attractive (not that it's a competition, but I'm in great shape and have been told I look like Julia Roberts). So what is he seeking? He has always been needy when it comes to attention, and I think that is part of what he is getting from this new relationship (a fawning sycophant). Never mind that I sacrificed my career and everything else to make his life and job possible -- he needed to be praised and adored constantly. So we're both better off without each other. And I feel really great for the first time in a long time!
It's good to here you do positive ahoy. I love it.
Heard from a friend who is also friends with H that he is upset about my plans to move (because it is inconvenient for him, mainly). She said he reminds her of her own XH -- negative, selfish, and plays the victim. As my friend in New Orleans says "Don't F up your life, and then turn around and wonder why it's all F'ed up." H has difficultly seeing that this situation is entirely of his choosing, his doing. My friend asked me if I was missing him at the holidays or feeling nostalgic. I can honestly say "nope!" Oh, and I have a date tonight. Just for fun, and keeping it just friends, but a date regardless. Go me!
Good for you, Ahoy! What about your move is inconvenient for H? Having to deal with the house or the situation with D? Or was he expecting you to dogsit?
I meant to comment about the relative unattractiveness of the OW. From what I read that isn't unusual, particularly with someone like your H who seems to maybe have some self esteem issues.
So tickled to hear you moving forward!
Well done Ahoy. Have a fantastic time.!!! Rd
Yes, it's inconvenient for him because it interferes with his ability to have the every-other-week parenting schedule and also I will no longer be available to babysit for him whenever he has a conference, work travel, or a trip to see his girlfriend planned. I think he knows better than to ask me to dog-sit. But, you know, I'm sure he thinks I'm being the selfish one by putting my needs (or, according to him "wants") first. No matter. He made a choice based on his "wants," and I, as a result, have to make a decision for my future based on my needs.
Here's what I will accomplish with the move: a stable job with benefits, family support for me and my daughter, health insurance and access to great medical facilities to deal with my benign brain tumors, and the proximity of lots of friends and family. I have a lot to look forward to! I'm just anxious that he's going to try to stall the process just to mess with me and to try to delay the move. But I'll make certain that doesn't happen.
My date went great -- such a nice guy. He insisted on paying because "you take care of everyone else, so someone should take care of you sometimes." I told him I'd treat him next time. He was reassuring about how I was dealing with D14's struggles, told me to just keep being the best mother I could be, and that's about all you can do. It was fun. I don't want anything more than friendship, but we came up with some fun adventures to pursue around the area, and it's nice to think that I'll have a partner in social crime who is not connected to my H in any way, but who knows what I'm dealing with, and had been through it before and can sympathize. I'll just have to make sure I am clear about the fact that I'm in no way ready for any kind of relationship beyond friendship. Off to yoga with a friend! Have a great day, all!
Sounds awesome, and it's great that you know you need more time before another R. Take care of yourself and have a great day
Yay for you Ahoy!
I wanted to say, too, that I think your plan to move near family is a sound one.
I moved close to mine 2 years ago and I simply can't imagin going through all of this without them near by. Heck- even if the move is what pushed STBX into crisis, I would probably still think it was worth it.
But in the meantime, enjoy your adventures with your new friend!
Just back from visiting family in home state, reconnecting with friends, looking at neighborhoods to move to. Working with H to get his financial info to proceed with the dissolution. To those who are struggling to keep their marriages to people who cheat, lie, betray, and emotionally abuse them, I want to say this: it may not be worth it in the long run. It's a gamble either way, but I have come to the conclusion that I am happier on my own than with H. Whereas reconciling with him MIGHT lead to a happy future (not that he's asking for reconciliation), I KNOW I can provide myself with a happy future, not dependent on another person. If I happen to find a new partner in the future, then great, but I will proceed differently and probably always maintain my independence to some degree. Not out of fear but out to preserve my sense of self, and self-worth. The right person will understand that. And if I end up alone, my life will still have meaning and value.
Ahoy,
Great to read your posts. You're inspiring me and others.
Amen, sister. It was a long and crooked road but I am where you've been for a while now.
Oh Ahoy....I SO needed to "hear" that from someone else. I am kind of at that place myself...or at least trying to be since finding out XH has a new gf already (and probably has for awhile). I think YOU were one of the first ones who told me it sounded like an OW and I'll be darned if you weren't dead on accurate. I'm moving on and he might find happiness, but I know MY happiness will only depend on me, while he will have to depend on someone else, because he is incapable of making himself happy. I love your spunk and am so glad to see you back. Yay for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, it is inspiring to hear that life can get better. I just realized today that I have cried EVERY day for the last 7 months. I have made a lot of progress but still am in a tremendous amount of pain. I'm not sure I will ever recover from this.
Dgb, I feel the same way. You are not alone! ((((Dgb)))) Sorry for the hijack, Ahoy!
Good to hear from you Ahoy. Take care.
Ahoy, great to see you checking in. Good luck in this new chapter!
Lovely to hear from you. please keep us updated
V
Finally got the necessary financial info from H, and requested appointment with L to work on separation and parenting agreement proposal. In some way it's surreal -- the interaction between H and me is all business, very calm and professional -- a tone I have promoted between the two of us. It's hard to imagine that the person I knew so intimately for 15 years is just no longer that person (and maybe I hadn't known him so well after all). But I am at peace with that, and with my decision to move forward on my own path.
Finally got the necessary financial info from H, and requested appointment with L to work on separation and parenting agreement proposal. In some way it's surreal -- the interaction between H and me is all business, very calm and professional -- a tone I have promoted between the two of us.
Ahoy, my IC thought I was crazy because H and I sat down at Starbucks to go over the S agreement before H moved out. It was all business.
Six weeks later he's flirting......sigh......
Hi Aboy, you sound strong and ok. Really nice to see a post from you and I hope it all contnues to go the way you want. Take care. Rd
Thanks guys! rppfl, it's funny because a friend of mine who is about half a year ahead of me in the divorce process called to tell me that his XW called and tried to beg him to take her back -- three months after the D was final (she left because she was interested in another man). So I'm not at all surprised that your H is flirting. The problem with narcissists is that they always want your attention -- be it positive or negative. The only way to stay sane is to back away as quickly and cleanly as possible. Best of luck with that!
My H and I have been slowing preparing our D14 for the upcoming move while keeping things vague. She knows that change is coming, but I've told her that when we know what our plan is we will sit down and discuss it together as a family. For the time being, H is pursuing job options elsewhere and I am trying to figure out what is best for my economic stability.
The bottom line, of course, is that I'm moving back to my home state, and want D14 to come with for school. i think H will agree because otherwise her presence interferes with his dating life (something he'd never admit but is nonetheless true).
We've both told her that regardless of what happens we will be sure to both have ample time with her, and keep our relationships with her strong, and that we both love her unconditionally.
D14 cried a bit tonight. She said she was crying because H said to her that he still loved many things about me, but we have too many differences. These differences are supposedly in the way we run our households -- something all couples face. I told her that for most marriages, that kind of thing is something to be worked on, not a reason for divorce. However, having a girlfriend when you are married is a reason for divorce, and that is the real reason why we are moving down this path. I know that's treading into risky territory, but I don't think my D14 should grow up thinking that you should throw away a marriage because one person likes to have the dishes clean and the bills paid and the other one could care less. Sigh.
What have you said to her regarding how your M deteriorated? One of my biggest motivations in life is to ensure my D2 grows up knowing how a healthy M is built, something neither I nor WAW learned from our parents.
I haven't said anything to her about how the marriage deteriorated, because I didn't know it had. He, on the other hand, has told her that we are "incompatible" in how we manage the household (I did all the work, he did none by his choice). He told her we hadn't been getting along for years, which is a complete lie (he was writing me love notes just two weeks before BD). But he also told her that he has a girlfriend and had been lying to her about if for several months. So I think, as a teenager, she has a pretty good idea of what's really going on.
Just found out my aunt has been diagnosed with breast cancer. My first thought? "I hate H." Why? Because he was supposed to be here for me through thick and thin and cancer and nonsense. And it ticks me off that I continue to waste mental energy on him that I could be spending elsewhere. But that's on me. It's my job to refocus. And truly I don't want to be with him anymore.
I spent yesterday throwing out photos and such. I was cleaning out a file cabinet and came across all my brain surgery documents. It made me sad. Part of me can't help thinking: I stood by him for all those years, through school, unemployment, disasters, etc. and he ditched me shortly after my diagnosis for a younger woman. Where is the karma bus when you need it? I did install a file cabinet lock all by myself, which made me feel good.
Bracing for a long meeting with lawyer on Tuesday to map out proposal for dissolution.
In the meantime, H's boss asked me to give a lecture on my work at the college where he works. Awkward, much? I'll get a nice honorarium. I hope H doesn't show up.
My uncle cheated on his first wife repeatedly for years. But when they finally divorced, he realized he had to change his ways, and he did. Married the ow, had two kids with her, they've been married 20 years. But now he has terminal cancer. Youngest daughter is sixteen. He's unlikely to see another Christmas, let alone see her graduate high school or whatever. He's 66 I'd say the karma bus is hitting their family pretty hard. Be careful what you wish for.
I certainly don't wish him cancer, but I'll admit I do wish that the OW would break his heart the way he broke mine.
Hey Ahoy - I'm sorry to hear about your AUnt. Your family has had a bad stretch the last few years. I hope they caught it early so that she has a choice of milder tratment options.
I know what you mean about your H. I vividly remember the feeling of peace and contentment in the weeks after our marriage that I had someone to be with me and hold my hand through life. Letting that go has been one of the harder parts of this for sure. I try to remember that I was actually pretty happy, befor marriage too. And now of course I have my two Ds - they certainly enjoy holding my hand!
Good luck with the lawyer. Hopefully the legal part will be pretty smooth for you.
Ahoy,
I'm sorry to hear about your aunt. Take this next piece however you choose. As long as you expend ANY energy wishing ANYTHING on your h, you are olnly hurting yourself and delaying your healing. Look, it svkks. It just does and although you have many good things going in your life, it is clear that you do have resentment and anger towards your h. Which, FTR, is normal. However, for your own benefit, work through that. Work on letting it all go.
It's a process and something that will benefit you and your D. Look, I'm not insinuating you should be insincere towards your h or say you only want him to be happy. We want you to be happy and live a rich, fulfilling life. Hang in there!
I am definitely trying to work my way toward not having any kinds of feelings (negative or positive) toward H. I know I will get there eventually, but I'm definitely not there yet. Once I'm back in my home state, with my job and benefits and a life truly my own (not one built around the convenience of my H, which my current life the past five years has been -- and years before that if I'm honest), I think I will be able to achieve a state of not caring. It will take time though, and I can honestly say that I will never trust or respect him again.
Hi ahoy great to hear you. You seem strong and that's great but you are moving on really quickly. As you know I am far from a pro but you have supported me from day one and I have seen your ups and downs in your posts. As always I am behind you 100 per cent Your a dry strong lady and that comes through in your posts. Take care Rd
Thank you Rd. Since my husband has told our D14 that he has a girlfriend, I want to set a good example for her of what is and is not acceptable in marriage. Having a girlfriend is not, and goes against my morals. So I'm at peace with it. Also, I'm not attracted or in love with my H anymore. He has become a person I would never want to be with.
I told her that for most marriages, that kind of thing is something to be worked on, not a reason for divorce. However, having a girlfriend when you are married is a reason for divorce, and that is the real reason why we are moving down this path. I know that's treading into risky territory, but I don't think my D14 should grow up thinking that you should throw away a marriage because one person likes to have the dishes clean and the bills paid and the other one could care less. Sigh.
My WAW told my boys that she left because I always had to control everything and make all the decisions. She told them this 20 minutes before OM showed up and spent 4 straight days with them. The weekend she moved out. Complete with buying them an Xbox, and a few hundred dollars worth of clothes.
When the boys came home singing the praises of OM I sat them down and told them what was going on. I told them that she had been seeing him since June and I showed them proof. I explained to them the value of working through the hard times and that running away was not right. . I probably went to far with this, but I also told them a male that would do what OM did is a dangerous person and should not be trusted. Real men have respect for, and uphold their marital vowels. To me, it is VERY important that my 2 young men understand that his behavior was not only inappropriate but also unacceptable.
bdub, thanks for posting. I agree -- I don't want to damage my daughter's relationship with her dad any more than he already has, but I do want her to understand the real reason why this is happening so she doesn't think that you just discard a relationship with no warning because of differences in household management that weren't ever mentioned until the time the WAS leaves. So many similarities in our situations. I too was accused of controlling everything in the household, even though he never offered to do laundry or pay bills and seemed overworked and more than happy to have me "taking care" of him.
Had a great meeting with L yesterday to tell her what I want in agreement proposal. I told her my objective is to make it look really good so that H's L would advise him to go with it. I'm being generous with money and visitation. However, later that night my H then balked at the idea of me taking D14 back to home state for school, wants to consider keeping her in her current school. I told him that we'd need to be on the same page to proceed with dissolution, and if we couldn't agree we'd have to let the courts decide, and I'd rather we tried to come to a consensus on our own so we can have more agency in the process. He agreed. (For now, anyway . . . I really can't trust him.)
I hope this means he will see the reasons why the move would be in D14's best interest for school (family support for D14, even in the new school, free time with H during summers when he doesn't work, better access to his family during break time, and consistent school for four years of high school). But if not, I'll have to convert it to a divorce and hope that the courts see the logic if he doesn't. I don't think he'll want to do that, because it will really make him look like the bad guy, and he hates that, but I am bracing for the worst. Not getting much sleep these days . . .
Any others out there dealing with custody issues while trying to move out of state? I'm wanting 70/30 time split (70 with me while in school in my home state, from where we moved a few years back), and 30 with H (during summer breaks when he's not working and then every possible holiday throughout the year). I'd love to hear if/how others accomplished this.
Hey Ahoy,
I'm not dealing with this but thought I would respond with a few thoughts and also give your thread a bump.
I think one of this challenges of giving actual divorce related advice is that all the states vary so widely.
I assume you're asking because your H is not ok with this?
I have to believe that given your daughter's age the courts would take her wishes into consideration.
That being said - do you think you could really achieve 30%? When I was a teenager, I would not have been enthusiastic about spending my entire summer vacation away from my friends. Heck,in High School I had a fully paid scholarship to be an exchange student in Switzerland and I almost didn't go because I didn't want to be away from my buddies for 8 weeks (happily I came to my senses.
When I read about issues that kids have with divorce, the disappointment that their time with their friends and their extracurricular activities are curtailed due to visitation is frequently cited.
Something to think about - if she comes with you - she may not be up for all that visiting.
Thank you, raliced! I appreciate the bump. I do think we could achieve 30%, only because D14 would want to come back to visit her friends in the town where H lives. She already has two sets of friends -- one in each place -- so I think that would facilitate the plan. I really want to be as generous as possible in the proposal, and of course we can modify later if need be, based on her wishes, and also if my STBX moves closer. But I do know how important time with friends is -- thank you for mentioning that. I welcome the advice -- and any other you can provide!
My dad is having surgery today for a blocked artery. Last week he called to say my aunt is battling breast cancer. My sister is due to have a baby any minute. It's so hard to be far away from them all during all these challenges. I really am eager to move back home to be with my family. Today I am sad. I have no family support here, and am far from the people I love. I wish I could fast-forward my life. . . Just feeling down today. I wish my L would hurry up and send me the draft proposal for the dissolution so I could feel like progress is being made. But then again I'm scared about the custody issue. Sometimes this is all too overwhelming.
Ahoy - best wishes for your father. I understand that procedure has a very high success rate.
There are definitely days that it feels overwhelming. When that happens to me, I try to remember that I will feel better soon and then just let it flow over me.
Have you spoken with your H about the custody proposal or will this be news to him (or are you afraid he will change his mind)? How does D feel about it?
Oh- and congratulations on your impending Aunthood!
I did mention what the child visitation schedule would entail to him -- at first he seemed ok, now he is waffling a bit. So who knows how it could turn out, and how long it might take. I really need to move to my home state this summer, and I'm worried about the time frame...
That's why I think it might come down to your daughter's opinion. I have the impression your H really doesn't want to seem like the "bad" guy on this. He might fight you, but would he fight her?
My D has mentioned before that she wanted to move back to our home state, but I haven't shared that with H because I didn't want him to get defensive and blame me for brainwashing her. My D14 definitely doesn't want to be asked to choose, doesn't want to be put in the middle. I don't think he would fight her, but I don't want to make her be the one to force the issue. I want him to see that it's in her best interest. But I think she would choose to stay with me if made to
Forgot to mention my other benchmark: I finally sold my wedding band last weekend, along with some other useless jewelry. I felt fine about it, since that past relationship is totally gone. Now we are just co-parents.
Anyone else out there dealing with child visitation/custody issues across states? I could really use some advice and some examples of what works.
Hope your Dad's surgery went well today, Ahoy. I'm impressed you sold your wedding band. That's pretty huge in my book!
My dad's surgery went well -- he's recovering in the hospital now. Very hard not to be there. Last night, my D14 mentioned moving to home state again -- I said that nothing was set in stone. Then she started a discussion about schools again. I've tried to be very vague on this account, because I do want to work out the parenting schedule specifics and custody issues with H first, but I do have to honor her desire to understand what might come to pass.
Basically, she has asked in the past to move back to home state. But she doesn't want H to know that, which I respect. In the course of the conversation last night, I said that I thought it would be in her best interest to do high school there for family support and other reasons, but that if she felt strongly about staying where she is, to let me know and that I would understand and support her. It was hard to say that, but it's true.
She has to know that I will love and support her no matter what, but I also don't want her to make a decision based on the fact that her friends are here, rather than in home state, because some of her friends are changing schools, and who knows what might happen in their lives/families in the coming years.
I told her that I didn't want to put her in the middle and have her make the choice, that I would do my best to avoid that scenarios. However, if it can't be avoided, and if H insists on trying to keep her where she is for school, then she may have to speak up for herself and her own wishes. I can tell she is torn, but she does say that she wants to be back in home state for school. It will be hard either way.
I would really love to hear from any others dealing with interstate parenting issues -- what works, what doesn't, what to look out for.
Finished my revisions to the dissolution papers. L made a bunch of sloppy errors (or perhaps her underling did). Anyway, the proposal is super generous, the parenting plan is as generous as an interstate plan can be. Hopefully it will fly, and H will agree. If not, things will get contentious. I hope his L tells him that the proposal is a great deal, and he would be crazy not to take it. I want this done yesterday.
Ahoy, I hope things go as you wish. And quickly
Ahoy- I wouldn't be at all surprised if they find something to nitpick about - but I'm keeping my fingers crossed they will agree to the big stuff. I'm glad it's moving for you.
Thank you, ladies! I really appreciate the support. My fingers are crossed. . .
Hi Ahoy, I hope it goes smoothly. take care RD
okay, so working on dissolution paperwork with H. He is contesting the language about no overnight guests unless there is a marriage in place. I said I would consider modifying it to marriage or live-in partner, but I didn't want our daughter exposed to a rotating cast of overnight guests. the problem is his GF lives out of town and this makes it complicated for him. Like I care. I told him my only concern was our D14's comfort, and I didn't think it would be good for her to experience that. He will only have her summers and holidays -- can he really not keep it in his pants a bit and put his daughter's needs first for once? So glad to be getting this selfish narcissist out of my life once and for all.
Anyone out there who can weigh in on the dissolution language about overnight guests/significant others?
I can't weigh in, but I totally agree with you. H and I have a S agreement (not legal) that spells out the same thing. In fact, it's a lot stricter than no overnights. And although he doesn't have to abide by it because it's not legal, he is. And I'd want something in the D agreement that's similar to what you are proposing. So I'll be watching.
Back to Ahoy's question:
Anyone out there who can weigh in on the dissolution language about overnight guests/significant others?
Thank you for bumping me along! I could really use some advice. I'm really not trying to interfere with my H's romantic life, I just want to make sure that my daughter is not made to feel uncomfortable, and he's only put his own needs first these past 8 months, so I don't trust him to make decisions with her best interests at heart.
Here's how I would look at it- at best even if he agrees, it's pretty much going to be unenforceable, right?
Maybe there is a way that you can soften the language while stil making your point - like no overnights unless they have been in a relationship for X amount of time.
I know this one is tought to swallow and I have nightmares that this is what life will be like for my girls - but I don't thinkg there is any way to make this type of promis legally binding. I think the best you can do is plant the seed that reasonable people would consider this type of behavior inappropriate.
You are so right, raliced. I'm just making myself crazy for no reason because it is totally uninforceable. I would just love for him to consider our daughter's needs and comfort first for once. I need to leave it alone. Also, our conversation confirmed that he is still seeing this OW and is thinking about her in the long-term sense (he mentioned taking vacations with her and our D14). Whatever. Good riddance to him. I hope he takes her to visit his crazy family full of selfish, polyamorous narcissists. I'm sure she'll fit right in.
FWIW- I'm guessing the time to have this conversation with them is when they are inbetween relationships (if that ever happens). They're too hopped up on that new relationship high to have these considerations for their kids (I can't tell you how judgemental STBX used to be about other people's situations, and now look at him - it's just evidence that he isn't completely in right mind).
That's my plan anyway....if that opportunity ever comes to pass.
The day I discovered he had been living with OW since BD and he came to my daughter's soccer game- I literally put my hand up and told him to spare me all the excuses about there being issues with the marriage and that it was clear that his actions were about one thing only. I then told him to do some research about how bad it is for kids to be exposed to their parent's new romantic partners too soon. I doubt he took me up on that....That's as close as we've ever come to having a conversation about it.
raliced and rppfl -- I really appreciate your feedback. I needed it. It's difficult to get feedback about the D logistics on this forum, probably because so many are busy trying to avoid that, but I don't know where else to turn.
I slept terribly after my conversation with H. It's just hard to wrap my brain around the fact that he is moving on with someone he hardly knows except through the internet (they've spent less than a month in each other's presence, but it's enough for him to toss away our marriage and family). Of course I don't want to be with someone capable of that, but I still have moments of disbelief, when I just can't believe this is the person he's become.
I'm going to let the morality clause go. All of his actions this past year prove he has no morals, so why should I expect otherwise. I can't police his behavior once we're D, I just hope he keeps our daughter's feelings in mind.
If the morality clause is a deal breaker for him it might be best to let it go. I tried the same thing and it got shot down. The WAS sees it as an attempt to control their actions, not an attempt to protect your D. Unfortunately you will just have to make sure your D knows that it is wrong and why.
In my sitch I could see it coming so I addressed it ahead of time. I made sure the boys understood that it is morally wrong and why. Sure enough, 2 weeks later they came back with big news that WAW had her AP stay all night. The worst part about it all? The boys had a friend stay over that night too.
I do know of 2 situations where a morality clause was part of a dissolution. The only way to enforce it is to file contempt of court charges.
Ahoy, I figured that I would never understand why my W walked so I just decided to go with the "alien in her brain" concept and the "addicted to the A" concept. Trying to gain any further understanding for me was futile.
It's difficult to get feedback about the D logistics on this forum, probably because so many are busy trying to avoid that, but I don't know where else to turn.
Actually, there are quite a few of us on here, that while we DB'ed our butts off, still ended up getting divorced.
And made it through to the other side and are thriving.
Hi Ahoy. Sorry you in a bad place over D and H relationship. I can't give any advice but I would hope that your H will see what this could do to your D. I read a lot about the fog and limerance or honeymoon period but it's hard to understand how something as important as Ds feelings.
Sorry I can't offer any advice but I do keep up on your sitch. Take care. Rd
I do know of 2 situations where a morality clause was part of a dissolution. The only way to enforce it is to file contempt of court charges.
And this just might be my downfall. Because i am totally willing to haul his a$$ into court time after time on this particular issue. I suspect I am going to need to get over this before I get to the paperwork stage.
Thank you all so much for your support, and for weighing in on the morality clause. I think you're right that it's futile, and I'll just have to urge my daughter to speak up for her self if she is uncomfortable with her dad's actions. I'm trying to let go, really. The whole thing brought up a lot of sad feelings for me, a sense of abandonment and such. I don't even want him back, but the rejection of our life together and our family still stings. I've been feeling so good about moving forward up until now -- I guess the emotional setbacks are to be expected.
Hang in there Ahoy. Keep fighting and keep your D a priority. To me the hardest part of the whole thing is how the kids are no longer a priority for the WAS. Sometimes mine seem like an inconvenience almost. It is sad.
All of our common friends don't believe that H has a girlfriend because he never mentions her. So I'm in the position of assuring them that yes indeed he not only has a girlfriend, he talks about her all the time to my D14 and is busy adjusting the parenting plan so that he can have her spend the night while my daughter is with him. He just wants everyone to think he's a good guy, and to do that he has to lie and be deceitful about what he's really up to. What a loser.
Hi Ahoy. Sorry your so down and your H is continuing with his madness. Of course he is hiding OW because he is ashamed. maybe the dogs lifting ?
Again sorry it's bringing you down. Take care. Rd
Thanks rd -- no, he calls his OW his "serious long-term partner" -- no matter that their relationship is primarily online, and that they've spent less than a month in each other's presence. He is in the thick of the fog, and I'm happy to leave him there. My skies are clear, and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel (meaning the divorce process)! I don't plan to waste my life dealing with a deranged narcissist. It's too short and beautiful to waste it in that way! I'm happier on my own, and might be happy with someone else in the future -- who knows?
I'm only irritated that he is deceiving our friends when ostensibly the whole point of his moving out was to "find his true self" -- but I guess his true self is a dishonest, deceitful person. Glad I know now. It makes it much easier to move on.
So impressed with how promptly you got yourself figured out.
A family member just shared with me the advice given by my great-grandmother to my grandmother when her cheating husband walked out on her:
1. Keep a good thought (meaning, I assume, don't allow your mind to fixate on negative thought cycles)
2. Take the reins of your own life
I was so glad to have this advice today. I am particularly working on the "good thought" part. I feel like I'm already taking the reins of my life by pushing forward with my independence and upcoming move. Some would call that giving up, I suppose, but I call that moving forward.
Happy Valentines Day, all. Your support over these past months has meant so much to me.
I found out yesterday that H wants to sell the marital home after all. Of course, this means that I will have to do all the work to get it ready and show it. I guess I should be used to that by now. Woke up at 5:30 am and started throwing things out, gathering things for goodwill, and cleaning. It's cathartic, but also sad. This was our dream home. I painted every inch of it, for the most part by myself. It's just a house, so I can say goodbye, but it's also saying goodbye to our years here as a family, and that makes me sad. I'm missing my D14 today. I'm missing my family. I'm trying to keep a PMA for myself, but am failing a bit today.
Hugs to you, Ahoy. STBX also asked that we sell our marital home which I've made pretty clear is fine by me... but I don't intend to do ANY of the work. I'll move out. Beyond that, he can deal with it. Because this is what HE wants. Anyway you can push some of these tasks off on your STBX?
Well, I have to stay in the home until the end of D14's school, since I'm moving after that back to home state, and really can't afford to move twice, or afford rent and half the mortgage. Also, I don't want to uproot my daughter before it's necessary. Maybe I can get him to help with the yard work. Honestly, I'd rather do it myself than have to interact with him, or have him over here. I guess I'm just feeling like a whiny baby today.
Ahoy- Moving ain't fun. I am having painful sense memories remembering all the sneezing fits I had clearing out of the last house. Hugs to you!
I know you don't want to deal with STBX (I tend to be this way) but I also agree with Maybell. I assume you guys are splitting the proceeds of the house? Then he should compensate you in some way for all the work you are doing (keep a log of all the hours).
Painting your new house will be fun!
Hi Aboy its ok to feel down today. You will have great memories of valentines days from the past. You will have great memories in the future as well. I have no doubt You ah e been very strong since I started readi g your posts but of course you will ha e bad days , if you didn't that would be a real problem.
Your H is missing out , I don't care what OW has to offer she is not you. There will be a day when your H realise this but it looks like it will be to late for him
Happy. Valentines day Take care. Rd
My thoughts and prayers are with you, Ahoy! I am dealing with moving from marital home now too and it is just hard. I feel for you, having to do it with D. Hang in there and know that you are a wonderful person and you will be fine.
Happy Valentine's Day to you! Treat yourself well today.
Thank you guys so much for the encouragement. I don't know what's wrong with me today -- it's not even so much about Valentines Day or the house or the dissolution process, but maybe a combination of all plus extra fun hormones. I know I won't always feel this way, and that the next few months will fly by, and SOMEHOW I will get everything done that needs to happen, and even though I feel alone, I am not. And neither are you. Virtual hugs to you all!
Survived a week of interviewing realtors, dealing with appraisal, scheduling STD test. Every week I accomplish something that will get me closer to independence.
D14 came to my house after being dropped off by H and the first thing out of her mouth was "He's so annoying!" Days later she got in an argument with him on the phone -- because he just talks and talks and never listens. This is something that's gotten worse with him over time. She complained that she didn't want him to sell the house, and I encouraged her to speak up.
She said, "He doesn't listen to me. I told him I wasn't ready for him to be dating, and he's doing it anyway." I told her that he's going to make his own choices, but it doesn't mean that she shouldn't speak up for herself and her opinions, and that to have a good relationship with her father, she will need to be able to communicate with him.
Of course, it's really hard communicating with someone who is a one-way street, and who only puts his own needs first. I'm sorry she is the one who has to deal with that. At least I will be free of him after the D. I'll have to communicate co-parenting things, but otherwise can limit contact.
It's interesting how I see him in such a different light now. I think he was probably always this person, but I wanted to see him in a positive light, and was his biggest defender. Now I look back on some of his issues with his work colleagues in a different way (and I hear stories from them as well). They see him as being, at times, officious and entitled and a poor communicator. I never thought he would turn his nastiness and officiousness toward me, but that is what I'm seeing in the dissolution process.
Here is what I have learned: if you see someone acting in a certain unattractive way toward others, understand that this behavior could easily be turned on you.
Here is what I have learned: if you see someone acting in a certain unattractive way toward others, understand that this behavior could easily be turned on you.
Yeah, huh?
This popped out at me, so I may be on the wrong track but I wanted to bring it up... Did your daughter expect that her telling her dad that she's not ready for him to date meant that he'd roll over and say he wouldn't date? Or that her telling him she didn't want him to sell the house meant he wouldn't? What do you think she expects to happen when she tries to tell her dad how she's feeling?
I think she expects that he would take her feelings into consideration, or at least explain in an honest way why he is doing things counter to her requests (instead of lying). She's never been in this position before, so I can't say for sure what her expectations are.
Here's what I think: when I am ready to start dating, I will talk to her and see how she feels about it. I will be honest with her up front. If she is truly uncomfortable with the idea, I will likely wait a bit. But I will tell her that eventually I will need to move on in my romantic life. She will need to understand that there is no chance of a reconciliation between me and her dad. I've been pretty clear on that since he told us the truth about his OW.
I know lots of folks repair their marriages after infidelity, but I'll be honest -- sometimes I go to the piecing thread just to remind myself of how terrible piecing is! I'm happier on my own than limping along in a lopsided relationship devoid of trust -- with someone I no longer respect.
I know lots of folks repair their marriages after infidelity, but I'll be honest -- sometimes I go to the piecing thread just to remind myself of how terrible piecing is! I'm happier on my own than limping along in a lopsided relationship devoid of trust -- with someone I no longer respect.
I know... reading Train's and T0324's threads is more gut-wrenching than what I'm going through now. I value marriage and commitment and I agree with MWD that divorce is awful and ought to be avoided, but I also think there's a reasonable point of no return.
Here's what I think: when I am ready to start dating, I will talk to her and see how she feels about it. I will be honest with her up front. If she is truly uncomfortable with the idea, I will likely wait a bit. But I will tell her that eventually I will need to move on in my romantic life.
I've given this some thought. Church guy stopped me to talk after Sunday school a few weeks ago and my kids came into the room after it had emptied and saw him standing there talking to me. Just a wee bit close. The look on D11's face made me feel badly (and just for the record, we weren't doing anything I wouldn't have done in front of my mother). This has not occurred since.
A friend of mine divorced about 4-5 years ago and promptly met someone she started seeing. She's still seeing him. But she only recently introduced him to her kids, like in the last 18 months or so. She said "That part of my life isn't their business." I think she was trying to protect them from instability.
I think I would do a blended approach. Date a bit without mentioning it to my kids. Introduce them to someone who's been around for a while -- but not so long as 3 years!! Ask for their feelings about all of it, but communicate that this is my life and my choices, while still taking their feelings into account. I think they can have too much input. Of course your daughter is a lot older so that would shape the plan as well.
All moot for me since no one is knocking on my door.
Did you talk to your daughter about what outcome she hoped for when she talked to her dad? To my mind, knowing what you're aiming for is a big part of deciding how to communicate.
Moot for me as well!
I am sure that D14 wanted the outcome of the conversation with her dad to be "Okay I will wait to start dating." The thing is, he had moved out only a couple of months ago at that point, and we were (and still are) still married, so D14 didn't understand why dating would be appropriate. He hadn't told her the real reason he left was to be with this OW, so she didn't understand why he was in a hurry to get her blessing for dating.
So he did promise her at the time that he wouldn't be seeing anyone. A month later he told her that he was seeing someone and had been seeing her for a couple of months -- so D14 felt lied to and betrayed. So this is why she doesn't trust him.
She wants him to keep the house because her friends live in the neighborhood, and she thinks that she will lose touch with them -- she will be staying with H in the summers and holidays after we move. It's entirely up to H -- he can definitely afford the house on his own. I think the reason he'd want to give it up is to not have to face the memories, and have a new woman in a house that I chose and fixed up nearly single-handed. That's just what I suspect. At this point, though, I really don't care. He's obviously going to do what he wants, regardless of any one else's feelings.
Hi Ahoy. You sound as if your H is still Pulling your strings and I wouldn't expect anything else. I know we all have to deal with what's in front of us but I do think your ab will have a ' what have I done to my D ' moment. I can see my W having glimpses of it at the moment. I don't know if it will last but my kids are getting the benefit at the moment
I know I am no vet but I have read on here to have no expectations re the WAS. I still do that f my W but it does help to think that way.
I see you say maybe your H was always like this but I think something happens to the WAS that they disconnect from their feelings for us which for us is almost unbelievable as we knew them so well.
Hopefully your H will have a eureka moment re your D and start to treat her as he should. Not doing just as she asks but to keep her feelings in mind.
Take care. RD
D14 came back from H's place once again crying, saying it seems he doesn't care about her, or cares more about the dog than her. I know he loves her, but he is not being sensitive to her needs, and she picks up on that. She also asked once again to move back to my home state. I told her I was working on it.
I know it's normal for teens to get frustrated with their parents, and sometimes I wonder if she complains to him about me. I try to validate her feelings without contributing any negative thoughts of my own regarding H. That's about all I can do.
Still waiting for H to return the legal papers with his adjustments. Still waiting for him to give me his tax forms. I hate having to contact him for any reason, because he can be very nasty and officious, but I think I'll need to call him today to ask him when I might expect the tax forms so that I can notify the accountant. We are almost out of time for our accountant. I feel like I have to work myself up to contact him, and I hate that sick feeling I get in the pit of my stomach beforehand and afterward. It's not that I want anything from him -- he completely repulses me at this point -- I just want this whole process to be over so that I can move on completely.
Hi Ahoy, sorry you H is still not taking his D's feelings into account as he should. Just from my own experiance with my D14, I find that even though she is a teen and can be grumpy etc, a simple word from W or a thoughtless gesture can send her off in tears for hours.
I have said before that the WAS seems like a different person and all they seem intrested in is themselves.
Again, I do see small signs with W that the fog is thinning re the kids and I hope for her and the kids sake it clears completely one day and that your H starts to have the thinning of the fog.
take care, Rd
Thank you rd. I'm having a hard time today. I don't know why. I just donated some old books and stuffed animals of my daughter's that she set aside for that purpose. I guess I'm saying goodbye to an era, and goodbye to the dream of our family. I just don't understand what happened. I don't understand how he could become the person he is now and not have seen it coming. I would never go back to being in a relationship with him, but I am still sad. When does that end? Will there ever be a week in which I don't cry? It seems impossible some days.
Well- I'll tell you when I find out
I read somewhere that on average, for every year you were together it takes a month of recovery time - that seems optimistic to me. I think, too, when there are minor children involved and you have to be involved with the ex-spouse and you can't have complete separation and distance - it's a challenge.
You and D14 have a lot of positives to look forward to in the coming months. I hope the house sale isn't too awful. Is he being pretty cooperative with the rest of the dissolution?
Hi Ahoy, of course your sad, as you say at the moment it's the end of a dream. You say you don't know what happened and your right, how could you ? Your M may not have been perfect but not many are. Your H has chosen a path and you may never understand why. I think that's why we have to let go completly and not be angry, etc. I know by your posts that you were willing to work for the M but your H was not. Who can say if your H will ever want to return, (no matter what you feel ) but you will be happy again, you will go weeks without crying and you will be at peace but you have to work towards that to make it happen sooner.
Don't expect anything from H, he is not the man you knew and won't act like that man for a long time (if ever)This is all very easy for me to post but the doing is the hard part.
If you never want M back again then I have no doubt you will find a good person to share your life with if that's what you want. You are doing a fantastic job with D, you are stong when dealing with H and you offer great advice to others.
I often think if my W had half the backbone of the ladies on this site I wouldn't be where I am now.
Please be good to Ahoy, she deserve's so much more than this crap and better days will come.
Hugs and a big kiss on the cheek, Rd
Thank you rd. I'm having a hard time today. I don't know why. I just donated some old books and stuffed animals of my daughter's that she set aside for that purpose. I guess I'm saying goodbye to an era, and goodbye to the dream of our family. I just don't understand what happened.
Ahoy, you know I feel exactly the same way sometimes. Letting go of a cheating H is one thing, knowing that your family will never be the way you envisioned and planned it is harder. Knowing that a person who was supposed to be building that dream with you deliberately destroyed it is harder still. We all have those days.
But then you realize that any number of events could have changed your dream, caused it to change direction. Had your H been standing by your side at those events, you would have taken them in stride, built a new dream. Do that for youself, Ahoy. And I know you are, you are making bold moves for you and your D. You are a brave woman, dear. (((Ahoy)))
Thank you for the support rd, rpp, and raliced (all my faves begin with "R")!
I am making bold moves, and not sharing my feelings with H at all, trying to stay strong on all fronts. It can be exhausting. I no longer have that emotional safety net of a loving partner to collapse into. I have to trust and depend on myself alone, which is a good exercise, but scary.
As for the dissolution, I am still waiting for his response to my paperwork, so I don't know if he's being cooperative or not. I think part of why I am teary today is the anxiety of not knowing what to expect, and knowing that I need to contact him about the tax stuff. I'm going to call him in about five minutes and am trying to reach a place of calm before then.