So, on our 19th anniversary, my wife informed me that she is involved with another person and is conflicted. We have 2 children, a 9 year old and a 5 year old. She says she loves this person and wants the freedom to have an affair with her. This was never on our radar and never discussed and I said no.
Needless to say, I was blindsided, incredibly hurt, furious, all of the above. I told her she had to move out in October which she joyfully did. I thought move out meant a hotel room, but she really moved out.
She continues to see the affair partner but it is a relationship that she claims did not end our marriage. It just helped her to see how "broken and unsatisfying" our marriage really was. She claims she has not been happy for years. She admits that it was a shitty way to handle it, but she should have left me years ago.
My life has been turned upside down, I am in shock, can't eat, sleep or function well. She seems to relish all of my misery too. I have made the mistakes of begging, we can work this out, our marriage is stronger than this, please don't do this to the children, etc...
I honestly thought our marriage was good, we had some normal marriage issues, but nothing that indicated this. She claims I was not emotionally there for her, shut her out etc.... While I could have been more attentive to her, I was home every night and we were living our normal lives and I was happy. She now says she needed more.
Her affair partner she met at work, is also married with two kids who is conflicted about her marriage too. The affair partner was apparently in an open relationship which is what this whole situation started as.
What advice to any board members give? I have flailed, been suicidal, and now just am numb. What are my options now? Just go dark? File for divorce? She doesn't want me to file for divorce, not to make anything permanent. This tells me she just wants her cake and wants me to be the back up. I don't think I am even the back up at this point, she told me to just watch her walk away and there is nothing I can do.
Heart broken and dumped.
P.S. I was advised to post this to the newcomers board, so you may see this again under Walk Away Wife section too - sorry
Me - 50
Wife - 43
S - 9
D - 5
Married 19 years
Bomb - Sept 2014
Wife move out - Oct 2014
Status - Separated Dec 2014
How am I supposed to measure progress if I go dark? Is progress measured in time spend together? Times she contacts me? Emails to me?
I am unsure of his to gauge any movement if I don't communicate with her.
I am having to sit on my hands to not text or call her. This is very hard for me.
Together 19 years
9 year S
5 year old D
Bomb Dropped - Sept 2014
Affair with OW - Sept 2014
Moved Out - Oct 2014
Status - Separated Dec 2014
Trust the process - jeez
What is the process? I think it is to step back, go dark, let her make her own decisions and try to be a better person?
Again, how do I judge progress or setbacks? Is an email from her regarded as progress? Time spent together is progress?
Thanks for helping me define what progress is.
Together 19 years
9 year S
5 year old D
Bomb Dropped - Sept 2014
Affair with OW - Sept 2014
Moved Out - Oct 2014
Status - Separated Dec 2014
I am working on being the best parent (we are a lesbian couple) I can be. I am spending way more time with my kids and their school projects, play time, play dates, birthday parties, laundry, etc... I can honestly say I am better and more involved parent now. I have a better relationship with both of my kids.
No, everything she says is not gospel, I know that. She does love being in charge and telling me what to do however. She has told me that she has been unhappy for years and now that she has her affair partner, she has the courage to leave. WTF. I have spent our 19 year relationship/marriage trying to make her happy so that really hurts.She actually said "enjoy watching me leave". Why does it have to be so hateful and mean?"
I can control only me and am keeping all communication short and business like. We were communicating via texts, emails, phone calls, and a flurry of half baked communication which led to frustration and confusion. Communicating via emails prevents me from losing my cool which is a positive step. I have requested we only email now. That feels like I am more in control and can communicate more effectively. She is also mad that we argued and fought pretty awfully when she told me that she was having an affair. Isn't that how everyone reacts when they are told their wives are having affairs?
I can't control her or her affair. I hate every single aspect of that situation but it is out of my hands. I admit I am a jealous person. I can't control that she is living in an apartment and away from the family.
I am working on being more social and have joined meetup. I am forcing myself to get out of the house and do things that I enjoy, either with friends or by myself. I am learning to face my fears about trusting myself and putting myself out there more. It is hard for me as I have paid 100% attention to my wife and family and making our life work (bills, career, etc...). She of course has lots of friends and has no problems socializing.
Together 19 years
9 year S
5 year old D
Bomb Dropped - Sept 2014
Affair with OW - Sept 2014
Moved Out - Oct 2014
Status - Separated Dec 2014
Sorry you find yourself here.
Keep posting, you'll get responses but it helps to keep your thread near the top of the first page.
Have you read the books? If not do.
You're not alone, you can get through this.
There's a thread on detachment here, start there.
OK - I have moved my situation to the Newbies section. Thanks for the advice
I forced myself to go to a Christmas party last night and just mingled. It felt very weird and I was out of place - at least it felt that way to me. I stayed for about an hour and then left.
I am trying hard to GAL outside of my wife and family.
My wife set up a family calendar - I was adding items to it and i saw he AP had posted a meet up with my wife on it. Of course my wife accepted it. GD. I emailed my wife to only use our family calendar for our personal family business. I am furious about this latest breach of trust.
Together 19 years
9 year S
5 year old D
Bomb Dropped - Sept 2014
Affair with OW - Sept 2014
Moved Out - Oct 2014
Status - Separated Dec 2014
Hiya, NAJ.
I am sorry to find you here under those circumstances. I am a gay woman and I am here to say "hi."
We have had some gay women post here...the latest one was RealityTrip (RT) who successfully reconciled with her W. Maybe our friend, Cadet, can pull up RT's old threads and post them here.
There's another gay woman here does only very brief fly-bys and her name is StubbornDyke (aka SD or Stubborn). A very wise person indeed.
Thanks - I will check her out
the latest one was RealityTrip (RT) who successfully reconciled with her W. Maybe our friend, Cadet, can pull up RT's old threads and post them here.
Here is RT first thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...095#Post2338095Click on her name, show posts, topics and you can get the rest of her threads.
Thanks Cadet
So tonight I went to a funeral for a family friend. Of course my wife was there and I was friendly but distant. I did not try to initiate any conversation, I did not sit with her.
This was hard and she seemed to having a really good time, laughing and yucking it up. I did my darndest to not look at her. It sucked.
I am working on detachment - effing hard for me.
Jan,
Here is the link on validation techniques to get you started:
Validation: Cheat Sheet What were some of the complaints from W about you and the M?
What were some of the issues that you feel you contributed to the breakdown of the M?
The M did not break down by itself. It did very gradually and then bam! The WAS is off with the OW/OM. Please remember that the OW did not cause the breakdown of your M, but just a symptom.
Take our your magnifying glass and take a hard look at your part in the breakdown because it is the only person that you can control and fix: YOU.
Keep coming here and we will circle around you to lend you support and some slapstick comedy!
By golly, we've got to laugh sometimes because, otherwise, we'd lose it while we are in dark times.
It's hard for all of us.
I look at it as, "I love my H, but I have no control over his life right now. The only thing I can control is me."
And hey, I'm not doing such a great job at it right now. But I am better than where I was before.
keep at it, you'll find a way to make it work.
Thank you for the validation cheat sheet. I will study it and use it during my next conversation with my wife.
Wife Complaints
You were not emotionally there for me
You made me feel taken for granted
I felt like your property
You did not help out with our kids
All of these just sting the hell out of me. Yes, I admit I could have been more emotionally available and loving. I could have been more involved with our kids. Her grandmother died recently and I only found out now that she wanted me to be there. I just did not read her mind. She felt that all she was good for was cooking and taking care of our kids, she also works full time.
I avoid conflict and in doing so, I chose not to fight with her, I thought that's what good spouses do, they don't argue or fight. Now I see it as a cop out, I should have shared my feelings with her more - even argued with her to demonstrate I am a real person, actively engaged in our marriage and family. I bought us a mini van which she complained she did not like. I honestly thought she was joking - who does not like a new Honda Odyssey? Apparently she was not joking and felt this was my decision slammed down her throat. Again, she did not feel heard and now I can fully appreciate that. She did not like it that I was always looking for a better house, better job, etc.... She tells me now (in therapy) that my dissatisfaction made her feel "less than". I was only looking to improve the situation for our family - I had no idea it made her feel devalued. So many things I can see now and how she tried to tell me she was dissatisfied. I chalked them up to typical married life issues and treated them as if they were not serious. What a tragic mistake on my part.
Some issues that contributed are she felt my emotional attachment was to my family of origin and not to her. Yes, i do talk a lot to my Mom and brother. I did talk to her way more though. Again, she mentioned it in passing but I never ever thought it was a serious problem. My listening skills seem to be very lacking.
Our intimate life was always good - however sometimes a month or so went by in between. I thought our lack of frequency was due to being exhausted by work and life and I thought she felt the same way. Again I can see I was wrong. We did not make spending time together a priority - time together means - just the two of us, no kids.
Now that she has moved out, I do not know how to show her I "hear and see her" and how much I want her and our family life together.
I understand that the the OW is a symptom but what the hell am I supposed to do about it now? The OW claims to love my wife and I see nothing but rage. I am trying to let the affair burn out and be non judgemental but GD it is so hard. I am fearful that I have lost my wife and family for good.
Together 19 years
9 year S
5 year old D
Bomb Dropped - Sept 2014
Affair with OW - Sept 2014
Moved Out - Oct 2014
Dec 2014 - still in contact with AP
Status - Separated Dec 2014
Wife Complaints
You were not emotionally there for me
You made me feel taken for granted
I felt like your property
You did not help out with our kids
All of these just sting the hell out of me.
Here is my .02
Let GO and Detach.
That will take care of #1 and #3
Be the BEST parent you can possibly be, that will take care of #4 and maybe even some of #2
This didnt get broken quickly, and will not get FIXED easily.
Small consistent actions will be needed to turn it around.
How can YOU be a better person?
How can YOU be the SPOUSE that only a FOOL would leave?
Make yourself into that!
That is a game plan to move forward with and
you will not lose!
Cadet
I love your patient approach - you seem so calm which I what I need to hear right now. For the past several months, I have been in free fall and have flailed and done all the wrong things which have brought the predictable terrible results - screaming, it's 100% my fault, and pushed her further into the AP arms. I have tried to control the situation but realize i can't control anything except myself.
Today I did some good detaching and GAL
1. I volunteered and read to my little girls Kindergarten class
2. I volunteered to be a co troop leader for my little girls Browne class.
Thank you for your much needed support!
Calibri
How is your situation going? Are you measuring progress? Are you making any?
How often do you talk to your husband or are you not in contact.
I am very interested in your story.
Best - NAJ
Jan,
I like your GAL activities!
It would help a lot to read RT's threads...all of them. It shows how RT focused on herself and let her W go like a "puppy without a leash being curious with stuff on the other side while looking back at RT to check if she was still there."
Stay strong! We've got your back here. Ask any questions here and we will do our best to respond back to you.
Thank you Wonka for your posts.
I will reread RT's threads. She is indeed very wise.
I just hate being in limbo.
I am bringing this over to YOUR thread, Jan. Please try to keep questions about your situation on your own thread instead of jumping around which makes it harder for us to keep track of you.
Walk Away Wife of Midlife Wife Reposting your original post [NAJ1964]:
OK
I am confused as to what I have on my hands, a walk away wife or a Midlife Crisis Wife. Does it matter in how I approach her or the situation?
On our 19th anniversary, my wife informed me that she is involved with another person and is conflicted. We have 2 children, a 9 year old and a 5 year old. She says she loves this person and wants the freedom to have an affair with her. This was never on our radar and never discussed and I said no.
Needless to say, I was blindsided, incredibly hurt, furious, all of the above. I told her she had to move out in October which she joyfully did. I thought move out meant a hotel room, but she really moved out.
She continues to see the affair partner but it is a relationship that she claims did not end our marriage. It just helped her to see how "broken and unsatisfying" our marriage really was. She claims she has not been happy for years. She admits that it was a shitty way to handle it, but she should have left me years ago.
My life has been turned upside down, I am in shock, can't eat, sleep or function well. She seems to relish all of my misery too. I have made the mistakes of begging, we can work this out, our marriage is stronger than this, please don't do this to the children, etc...
I honestly thought our marriage was good, we had some normal marriage issues, but nothing that indicated this. She claims I was not emotionally there for her, shut her out etc.... While I could have been more attentive to her, I was home every night and we were living our normal lives and I was happy. She now says she needed more.
Her affair partner she met at work, is also married with two kids who is conflicted about her marriage too. The affair partner was apparently in an open relationship which is what this whole situation started as.
What advice to any board members give? I have flailed, been suicidal, and now just am numb. What are my options now? Just go dark? File for divorce? She doesn't want me to file for divorce, not to make anything permanent. This tells me she just wants her cake and wants me to be the back up. I don't think I am even the back up at this point, she told me to just watch her walk away and there is nothing I can do.
you are correct about me being confused by these threads. I dont know what they mean and am not sure where to post - Newbie? Walk Away Wife? Infidelity?
Sorry to be so dense.
Stick with your thread...until it reaches nearly 100 posts or over then you can make a new one.
Stay with this thread, Jan.
Jan,
I wanted to get back to you on your long post.
In the very last paragraph, you said:
[NAJ1964]What advice to any board members give? I have flailed, been suicidal, and now just am numb. What are my options now? Just go dark? File for divorce? She doesn't want me to file for divorce, not to make anything permanent. This tells me she just wants her cake and wants me to be the back up. I don't think I am even the back up at this point, she told me to just watch her walk away and there is nothing I can do.[/quote]
I take it that you don't want a divorce. Then don't do any paperwork nor file. We all advise LBS here not to do the D paperwork. The onus for filing for D needs to be squarely on the WAS' shoulders. If they want it bad enough, they've got to do the legwork.
We work with WAS here to give them scripts on proper boundary setting. It is very clear that you are not okay with your W having an affair which means you are not willing to live in an open M.
We've worked with HPoirot very closely on proper boundary setting and he's doing a bang good job of it & enforcing it.
I am going to link HP's first thread to get you started on how we all worked with him on proper boundary setting and enforcing it (this did not occur until maybe 2nd or 3rd thread).
HPoirot's First Thread Here's one script that I gave to Dev over in the Infidelity thread:
I want to be clear on some things. One is that I do not want a divorce, but will not stand in your way should you choose to continue on this path. Two, I am not willing live in an open marriage with a third party.
We will not be friends should you decide to proceed with a D. Make no mistake -- if you choose to end our marriage this way, by continuing your affair with OM. It is incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage and our family. We will co-parent our children, and I will of course be civil and courteous, but this isn't how 'friends' treat each other.
Going forward starting now, as long as you are involved in an affair with the OM, our communication only be focused on the logistics of the children's schedules, their issues, and exchanges. We have some decisions to make here. When you’re ready, please let me know your thoughts.Jan, I do not think you are ready for this step yet. Because I sense that you are feeling emotionally fragile...I can understand that. Stating a boundary and being prepared to enforce it takes a TON of cojones. Trust me, please do not take this step yet until you feel a bit more centered and eating more etc.
There's another ball of wax: Gay women with OWs. A different animal altogether. Let me explain my reasons for thinking this way.
For straight people in A's, it is a combination of emotional connection (from the WAW) and the sexual pull (from the WAH). Which is why boundary setting is usually quite successful with straight affair partners.
In my view, it is MUCH, MUCH harder when it comes to two women because women thrive on emotional connection. Here you have a powerful potent mix of two women coming together and have a deep emotional affair that is the bonding chemical. Although I am clear that they are operating on PEAS...what I call dopamine or addiction.
Whatever the situation, DB advises to focus on GALing and making 180 changes for YOU. After all, you are the one that will be living with those changes and better damned be comfortable with it for the rest of your life. Not as a ploy or tactic to "win" back your W, Jan.
To me, I think you will benefit the MOST in reading from RT's threads and learning more about her approach.
In short, GALing is essential in the detachment area which is why we constantly hammer this point home to newbies.
I am confused as to what I have on my hands, a walk away wife or a Midlife Crisis Wife.
Does it matter in how I approach her or the situation?
No the advice is the same.
You are correct - I do not want a divorce. I want my wife back and my family entact. I am not willing to live in an open marriage, that is why why wife and I are living apart. She is mad that I "made" her leave.
I will continue to work on me - not as any tactics to get my wife to come to her senses. what really [censored] is that my wife and I have two little kids and so does the AP - she has two little kids. That makes 4 kids who are going to suffer the consequences of this f*cked up drama that is my life.
I will read the link for HPoirot boundry setting right now.
Thank you for your detailed reply - it is very helpful for me to know there are others who have gone through this and that you are willing to talk me through this. I appreciate you Wonka and Cadet so very much.
I will continue to GAL.
I think my WAW is bi polar too. Her mom is, her sister is, her aunt is and so it her Uncle. But her, noooooooo. When I bring it up she gets really mad at me. But she has the classic symptoms and the family history. I can only do so much and at the end of the day, it's their issue to resolve or not.
My mother and daughter are both bipolar.
My mother completely denies it and has been on meds for 60 years.
My daughter totally accepts her diagnosis and is totally responsible for her mental health.
I will say that normal mental illness response is denial.
I wish that it wasn't but that has been my experience.
Best to just learn to listen.
My mother and daughter are both bipolar.
My mother completely denies it and has been on meds for 60 years.
My daughter totally accepts her diagnosis and is totally responsible for her mental health.
I will say that normal mental illness response is denial.
I wish that it wasn't but that has been my experience.
Best to just learn to listen.
Yep. My father is bipolar. He says it's a "label he's been unfairly given." Not really med compliant in the first 20 years of diagnoses, but has been better about it in the last 10 years. Still denies, most of the time that he's ill.
I have a good shot at triggering bipolar. I've made a promise to myself that I will accept the diagnoses and be responsible for my mental health as well.
Agree with you Cadet, it's just best to learn and listen.
Jan,
I see that you've posted a "new" thread title asking questions about your situation. It would be REALLY helpful to keep posting them right here IN YOUR OWN THREAD so people like me and others can find you quickly and easily to offer support.
Please, PLEASE stick with this thread, Jan.
What does fighting for your marriage mean? Reposting your original comments:
Me again - sorry to be so chatty this morning, but I've a lot on my mind.
My WAW said at the beginning of this nightmare she wanted me to "fight for my marriage". That is confusing - what does that even mean?
1. Does it mean - going to MC?
2. Does it mean - working on me? I think this is really what it means. If so, this translates into being more present with my kids, living more in the present and acknowledging the good things in my life, being more emotionally available (this is hard for me - wtf does this really mean? I am guessing listening and validating her each time we interact).
How do I know she even knows I am working on me unless I tell her?
She has moved out, how does she see/know of any changes?
3. Does it mean - going dark?
If I could get some clear examples of what "working on my marriage" really means, that would be helpful.
I will come back here later and respond. I really need to dash out the door for an haircut and some errands.
Be in touch soon. Hang in there.
Threaded means posting under the same topic? Sorry but don't have a lot of experience with threaded discussion boards. I will try to figure this out and post under the same thread.
Jan,
Right there ^^ you've just posted to your own thread. Keep 'em coming right here...IN THIS THREAD.
All you have to do is hit "reply" push-button to compose your responses in this thread.
OK - I can do that. Thanks for the directional motivation
Hi. A lot of what you've said is Familiar script to a lot if yes LBS (left behind spouses).
They blame us, everything was all our fault and they haven't been happy for years (sometimes never). We can speculate on why They say this stuff and personally I think its because otherwise they would have to deal with the guilt of what they've done (and people will do a lot to avoid guilt)
The thing to remember is that a lot of those who have saved their marriages have also heard this sort of thing.
When you do hear criticism think about the buts that make you feel defensive because those are a good place to try and identify the things you need to work on.
I really hope things work out for you and your kids
NAJ, is your wife claiming she's bisexual, or lesbian?
Starsky
Hi Starsky
We are both women who are gay. We have been together for 19 years.
what is the script? I am not familiar with this term.
That's ok, thanks for the clarification. I was wondering why this wasn't more of a sexual orientation issue than a wayward/walkaway issue, but that explains it.
I'll try to catch up better on your sitch; it's been extremely hard to follow because you've started so many different threads.
Starsky
Yeah, I have been informed of that. Im new to this whole thread discussion thing and just didn't know where to post.
My WAW has said that too - that I flail around. Yes, it is true, I do that when I am scared, hurt and confused. I am guilty.
It can be confusing at first -- but just post everything here that relates to your situation, that way we can find it quicker. If you read other peoples threads, and have questions for them -- post on their threads, otherwise it might get overlooked.
So, your WAW has mentioned that you flail around and you've confirmed that as well. You do seem very scared, hurt and confused. I think everyone here can relate to that.
What can you be doing right now to bring some peace to yourself and not "flail around"? Have you thought about meditation, or exercise to get out any excessive energy you might have? Since my BD, I've increased my exercise and have set new personal records, using my anger as motivation.
I was a wreck when this started. I was having panic attacks when I woke up. Panic attacks at work, you name it and I was freaked. I actually wrote "Breathe, you will be ok. Have faith in yourself. Have faith in him, but more importantly, have faith in yourself." I put it on a sticky note and it stared me in the face at work for about a month or so until I had gotten to a place where I was doing better.
Take a deep breath, realize that this is a marathon - not a sprint. Focus on what you can do to make yourself feel better today.
Jan,
I wanted to bring your questions here so we all can examine them and discuss together.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me again - sorry to be so chatty this morning, but I've a lot on my mind.
My WAW said at the beginning of this nightmare she wanted me to "fight for my marriage". That is confusing - what does that even mean? When a WAS says that line, "fighting for my marriage" suggests that they are in pain and are seeking or want a magic bullet to make the pain go away. In other words, they want to HEAR if they really do matter and have value as a person/partner. That is the unspoken thought process inside the WAS mind. Not always the case. Some are just done, DONE.
1. Does it mean - going to MC? Has W said anything to you about MC at all? Alluded to it? We need to be very careful making assumptions because we do not have enough information to work with or presented with facts.
2. Does it mean - working on me? I think this is really what it means. If so, this translates into being more present with my kids, living more in the present and acknowledging the good things in my life, being more emotionally available (this is hard for me - wtf does this really mean? I am guessing listening and validating her each time we interact). Again, those pesky assumptions. We just don't know what your W meant by "fighting for my marriage" UNTIL they rattle off exactly what they mean by that statement.
How do I know she even knows I am working on me unless I tell her?
The beauty of DBing is that the focus is squarely on YOU for you. Only for you. Focus on making the changes and you don't need to get on the stage at Madison Garden and proclaim to W by saying, "Lookee...aren't I fabulous!! I have changed. I did.....blah, blah, blah." No. You just quietly go and do your own thing. Slowly but surely they will notice the changes. Mind you...they WILL NOT comment on them. Perish that thought! Why? Because they don't want to give you any high hopes.
She has moved out, how does she see/know of any changes? See above answer. Oh yeah..they DO notice. I made changes to my wardrobe and got some new clothes. One time, when Ms. Wonka came to our old marital home to stay with me due to our dog's death, she looked at me very, very closely when we went out go grab some ice cream and she ACTUALLY reached out and brushed off some "imaginary" lint from my jeans belt hook. Did she say something? Of course not. I just smiled inwardly with how she was stealing figurative glances my way.
3. Does it mean - going dark? Jan, you're mixing up W's comment on "fighting for my marriage" with DB method. It has no direct correlation at all. More on that later.
If I could get some clear examples of what "working on my marriage" really means, that would be helpful.
You ask a good question right there ^^, Jan. So let me ask you this: Have you read the book, Divorce Remedy, from front to back? By doing so, you will get a good understanding of the nuts and bolts of practical tips on how to bust a divorce (and save your M).
Your answer will inform my next responses (and other posters as well).
More stuff from other threads that you posted...
So now my WAW is angry angry angry towards me. I asked via email if we could coordinate Christmas gifts for our two kids and she was so cold - one word NO. I would advise that you post communications with/from W so we can assist you with drafting responses that are in line with DB principles of STFU and KISS. We can aid you in heading off any potential problems or negative responses from your W. It can be done and has been done around here.
She then sent me a mean email about my scheduling conflicts about keeping the kids. I just can't win. Maybe I should just ignore her all together. If you don't mind, it would be helpful to post communications from W so we can assess and evaluate them. This will aid in the formulating a response that is neutral and a bit more positive.
Should I defend myself from her anger or just ignore her. My gut tells me to just ignore her, so that's what I will do.
No, it is not good to ignore her because you have children and do need to communicate logistics together. Come here and we will help you in the first several times. It is not because you can't do them, but because you are new to this and need to learn how to write emails and texts that are in line with DBing principles. After you watch and learn, then you'll be able to do them yourself. When I first came here, the vets helped me with drafting emails to Ms. Wonka after I posted them here for feedback and critique.
I want to expand on a bit why your W was "cold" and "mean" to you. Try not to take it personally. I know, I know...easier said than done. The reason for their seemingly "cold" responses is that they want to keep you at arm's length for they have put up a Berlin Wall between you as a self-protection mechanism. And out of perceived "loyalty" to the OW. Wacky...I know.
It took me 4 solid months to chip away at Ms. Wonka's very large and slow moving glacier before I got a response from her. Granted, we did not have children like you guys do. But we had fur babies...a dog and a cat.
What worked for me was that I did not inundate Ms. Wonka with a bunch of emails, texts, or letters. Oh noooooo. In the month after Ms. Wonka moved out (August 2004), I sent out pictures of our dog. Heard nothing from her. Sent a X-mas card. Finally heard back from Ms. Wonka with a picture of our cat that she took with her. No texts, no nothing during the interim. Of course, pre-DB I wrote her a long letter. Big mistake. A bit NO-NO.
As we say around here, patience and MORE patience. We have a special discount on patience shovels and will gladly deliver them to you at no charge!
Here is my email about trying to coordinate Christmas gifts. I went first and I get shot down by her response.
A -
Can we work collaboratively on the kids Christmas gifts?
Here is what I propose:
LXXXX
1. Robot from Target - mip - he';s been talking about it
2. Assorted Books
3. Refurbished phone - text and phone calls only- my old phone
4. Stocking Stuffers (whistle,)
RXXXX
1. American Girl dog and clothes
2. Hello Kitty Lip Gloss Collection
3. Refurbished IPAD mini - she feels really left out that Liam has one and she doesn't
4. Stocking stuffers (socks, hair bows)
CXXXXX
1. Transformer
Teachers -
Marsh Weiss, Miss Sally and Mr. Page, Olena S (STAR), Ovasnna (front office), YS Teacher (not sure of her name).
I have Roche chocolates - 6 in a box and can give each teacher one box that is wrapped.
What are your thoughts?
XXXXXXXXXX
11:55 PM (15 hours ago)
to me
I've already taken care of my gifts.
Jan,
Ah...I do see what the problem was. Not your fault.
A quick glance at the email shows the following issues:
1) It's toooo long
2) Too much information all at once
3) Littered with assumptions on specific toys/gifts tied to specific people
It sounds like you're rattling off things and expecting W to fall in line with it. Not saying you're wrong, but it is how it comes across in reading the content.
Far too much for W to take in and handle so she shuts you down with that abrupt response so she does not have to deal with you.
We all preach to the newbies to keep their emails and texts concise and to the point. We often work with them here to whip out their Sharpie pens and guiding them in crossing out extraneous stuff that are space fillers or fluff.
Please feel free to ask us for help with this process, ok?
Use us or LOSE it....
Jeez
OK - I get it now. Once you explained it, I understand why she shut me down. So, very short and to the point emails only. I can do that.
Thank you for taking the time to read and reply.It is much appreciated.
Tonight I GAL - I took my kids to the Grove and we scoped out the American Doll shop and Barnes and Noble. I wrestled with and tickled the kids a lot just to get us all laughing. My little girl told lots of jokes, none of which made any sense but I laughed at all of them. I must say it made me feel better to laugh even though it was forced. It was like my body did not know that it was forced, weird. We got some Christmas presents, wrapping paper and just killed time. We then went for supper and came home at 8PM. There were many times I had the terrible feelings start to creep in, but I ignored them and carried on.
It was good to get out of the house, when my instinct was to just go home and get in bed. It was a fun time together, just what my kids needed (and me too).
One of the main complaints of my wife is that she feels like she is property or needed only because of what she can "do". I never really understood that but from your response to my email, you say I expect her to fall in line with my assumptions. That stings but there is a ring of truth to it.
I had my kids tonight. My little boy who is 9 cried and sobbed because he wanted his Momma. I am Mommy, Momma is my WAW. We talked about it and told him that Momma and Mommy love him very much and will figure things out. I felt like a complete sh*t.
My question to the board is:
Should I email my WAW this info or will it come across as manipulative.
Sample:
A
Just to let you know, but L has a very hard night tonight and cried and sobbed for a long time. He wants you to come home.
I told him we are working on it.
What do you think? Manipulative? or honest in giving him extra attention when she has him.
Thanks for your thoughts y'all
Maybe not, in my sitch every thing is pursit. It's gets nothing back.
I had my kids tonight. My little boy who is 9 cried and sobbed because he wanted his Momma. I am Mommy, Momma is my WAW. We talked about it and told him that Momma and Mommy love him very much and will figure things out. I felt like a complete sh*t.
My question to the board is:
Should I email my WAW this info or will it come across as manipulative.
Sample:
A
Just to let you know, but L has a very hard night tonight and cried and sobbed for a long time. He wants you to come home.
I told him we are working on it.
What do you think? Manipulative? or honest in giving him extra attention when she has him.
Thanks for your thoughts y'all
,Naj
here's the thing she doesn't love herself so how do you expect her to love someone else like even your kids.
My honest opinion is to let her sort out her relationship with the children on her own without help from you.I know that may not make sense right now but its what you must do
Jan,
I would be careful of using the kids to shame and guilt W. Also it introduces pressure to the WAW.
Just to let you know, but L has a very hard night tonight and cried and sobbed for a long time. He wants you to come home. I told him we are working on it.
Do you know see how it is guilt-inducing and applying pressure on W? Also it is pursuit on your part. Not good.
Do not send the email to W. It was a good convo between you and S because he felt safe to open up to you. Glad you were there to listen to him and allow him to express himself to you.
There will be many moments like that from your kiddos and just keep the lines of communication open with them. Your W isn't interested in reconciling with you at
this moment.
Keep the focus on you and the kids. Arrange play dates with other kids, outings that are fun, and do activities at home (i.e. crafts, board games, etc.).
If possible, arrange for the kids to have a babysitter (parents or friends watching them) so you can have some FUN time yourself. You really need to take care of yourself otherwise you'll get really overwhelmed and burn out a bit.
I never thought of it as a good convo - it just hurt me so much to see my son crying and sobbing. And I blame my WAW for causing my S9 and D5 all of this confusion and pain. I know that's probably not right to feel that way, but it's true. She chose to leave our kids and family for her OP. She put her needs above our kids, and me. Yes, I am very angry about it still. Does it mean that until I can get past this anger I will not heal?
That is a good point about my S9 feeling safe enough to talk to me about his pain.
My WAW and I are splitting the kids 3 days at a time (at their request). I can do "my things" during her 3 days.
I blame my WAW for causing my S9 and D5 all of this confusion and pain. I know that's probably not right to feel that way, but it's true. She chose to leave our kids and family for her OP. She put her needs above our kids, and me. Yes, I am very angry about it still.
NAJ, lots of us feel this way, I certainly did. And to some extent I still do, I still think H is being a selfish b*stard and not thinking of his kids. But I'm not angry about it anymore. Angry mom is not good for my kids and I need to set aside whatever I think about H and show them I'm ok. And you know what? I am.
Jan,
Maybe I had some poor word choices...what I meant was that your son was able to talk to you freely without fear of being shut down or having his feelings being discounted.
We all have our moments of anger...especially when the separation is very new and the discovery of the OW is fairly recent. Go with the feelings and get through to the other side. I was angry for a long time. The over time the anger went away. It is a natural and organic process that is individual to each person. There's no right or wrong in those emotions.
Just be on the alert for allowing anger to consume you...that's not healthy at all.
It is good to hear that you do have some "Jan" time. Are you seeing IC for yourself?
Next topic
My WAW texts me today (calls my cell) and left a message on my home phone.
Our D6 has a birthday coming up Dec 30. My WAW wants to spend the day at Disneyland with us (as a family).
What is the proper response? While one part of me wants to jump and say yes as this is what I want more than anything (entact family) but the other part is no, she should not be allowed to play happy family as long as she is a WAW having an active affair.
How should I respond? A simple, no thanks, ignore her or say yes and try to use it as an opportunity to build our screwed up relationship.
Confused.
On another note - we went to a new church today which was really good, I met some warm and inviting people and my kids had a blast at Sunday school. That felt really good. I asked if I could help out with Sunday School and if I could play guitar with the kids singing. That felt good too.
My D6 has a play date today making Christmas cookies and that is keeping me happily occupied. The Chrismas cookies will be everyone's gift this year as finances are tight. Previously my WAW always made Christmas so hectic I dreaded it and felt I never measured up. This year is different. I have even put on some Christmas music to keep my spirits up.
PMA and GAL are working.
With the Disneyland visit my personal view is to do what you feel is best for your D6.
Jan,
I am glad to see that you're getting more involved with your Church and participating in activities. Sugar cookies! I really love soft and gooey chocolate chip cookies.
As for your D6's BD celebrations, I would encourage you to collaborate with W on going to Disneyland for it is for your D6 where you can create good and positive memories for her.
How about this (you can change to fit your style)....
W,
Thank you for the suggestion. I think it would be wonderful for D6 to have her BD at Disneyland. What did you have in mind? How would you like to handle the presents so we don't get duplicate gifts for D6?
Have a good week.
Thanks,
Jan
Now that you've mentioned sugar cookies, I've got to go and see about that egg nog for me!
P.S. I am doing my happy dance now that my Pats just blew out the Dolphins! Now on to the playoffs and Super Bowl!
My D6 has a play date today making Christmas cookies and that is keeping me happily occupied. The Chrismas cookies will be everyone's gift this year as finances are tight. Previously my WAW always made Christmas so hectic I dreaded it and felt I never measured up. This year is different. I have even put on some Christmas music to keep my spirits up.
Jan, I made Christmas cookies with my daughters yesterday, too. We had a great time. Enjoy.
So my WAW has written lots of texts, called my cell, left messages on my home phone, wants to spend time together at Diney with our kids, wants to ride together to our therapist's appointment. Should I take these signs as her heart is warming toward me/our marriage?
I have been very cool, not rude, just detached.
What do you guys think?
The consensus from the board is to go ahead and go to DISNEY and accept he offers of riding together, etc... She is still with AP and I hate every minute that that it creeps into my mind, but I am biting my tongue and not saying anything or questioning her.
Advice appreciated on my sitch.
Jan,
Wait a cotton pickin' time! WE did not suggest that you accept ALL offers from W. All we suggested was to go ahead with the Disneyland trip because it is all about D6's birthday.
I wouldn't accept offers to ride together to therapist's office. No, I do not think her heart is warming up and still very much against being married to you at this moment. I emphasis this moment because it is where W is at right now. Doesn't mean things won't change down the road.
Don't be too available to W. Do not respond to every text or phone call unless it concerns the kids. You don't want to be her best friend while she's in a full-blown A with the OW. Nope, neyt. Especially riding together to the therapist's office. That is whack.
OK - I thought so too. Previously, I have been waaaayyyy to available to her. I agree that riding to the therapist was freaking bizarre - why would she even ask that? As a side note, I saw her and her AP today in her car riding down the road. It made me physically ill.
Why do you think the increase in texts and emails and phone calls then?
Now she wants the whole family (s9, D6 her and me to go to Disney). WTF.
I don't think I can do this guys, I'm sorry, I really don't.
I am too old to play mind games and just too broken.
I have given up.
So here is an email from my WAW. We are discussing our D6 birthday party. She is telling me which Disney dates are doable. She also wants to use our family house (she moved out) to have a party. She wanted to invite neighbors. They all know the story and that she moved out. Is that too weird?
Suggestions please for a reply that is appropriate given our goofed up situation.
HER EMAIL TO ME
It's open 12/31 or 1/1. I'm fine either way but I believe you're working on 1/2 so you might prefer 12/31.
Maybe we can do dinner all together on 12/30 for her birthday? Maybe pizza at the house and invite neighbors over for pizza, ice cream, cake? Just something for her ACTUAL birthday might be fun.
Jan,
You can do this...for D6.
I need to ask you questions first:
Which day works best for you to have the kiddos over at your house? Then go with that day.
Here's a suggestion:
W,
It seems that the Jan. 1st would work best schedule-wise as most people are usually off work and they could bring their kids around for pizza and ice cream in the afternoon. I like your idea of pizza and ice cream.
How about we draw up a list of people/kids to invite? This way, we can plan on having enough food for everyone. What are your thoughts?
Another thing we need to figure out is gifts for D6 so we don't duplicate. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Jan
This is another way to screen out OW. Not explicit in the email, but you can see what W has to say in her response. Smart, eh? STFU and keep this thought to yourself.
So I screwed up today pretty awful today.
I was driving to work and saw my WAW and her AP in the car. I broke out into a cold sweat and got sick to my stomach. I had to pull over at a gas station to be sick.
Anyway, I knew the AP was in town and my wife picked her up from the airport. So my wife calls this afternoon with some bull$hit story about not being able to pick up our kids due to feeding someone's cat. I knew it was a lie and she wanted to take her AP to the airport. I said "Just tell me the truth A - you don't have to lie anymore about it". She then launches int a blistering full out attack mode screaming fit on the phone about what an a$$hole I am, etc... etc.... etc....
I had to work with my S9 on a homework project so I had to meet at my wifes apartment. She of course was furious and I just ignored her, helped my S9 and got out of there.
Lesson learned - not to ask any questions. Her spew was impressive but at least I didn't let her shirk her responsibilities picking up our kids.
Jeez.
Jan,
You can now wipe that verbal crap off from your spew jacket. W was furious that she was caught in a lie and she knew it. Not your problem.
Did you really have to help with your son's homework? Was this that your W could have done herself?
How did your son's homework go?
Yeah - I felt that she was furious because she was caught too. I knew exactly what she wanted and then she tried to pawn off our kids to me. That didn't happen and I am glad.
Home project was on Cherokee Indians and I had been helping him with it for the past few weeks. It is due in two days and I wanted to finish it with him. That is the only reason I stopped by the postal WAW wife's apartment.
The project looks great I must say!
Another interesting topic - my WAW wife has serious mental issues, was hospitalized in a mental clinic and tried to kill herself twice. She is on all kinds of antipsychotic meds. She went postal when she was 43. That was back in 1993.
I did the math and my WAW is guess how old ...43. I am very inclined to believe she is having a breakdown, mental crisis, whatever you want to call it. I mean her screaming on the phone today was the worst I have ever heard her. She was like a lunatic. I even told her to take a breath and calm down, she continued her spew.
This puts a new perspective on her behavior since September. Christ.
Jan,
I do not think that your W is having a mental crisis or breakdown. What's happening is that she's high on PEAs or dopamine that blocks out most rational thinking. In short, she's in a fog...A fog to be more specific. All of their thoughts and emotions are centered around the OM/OW to the near exclusion of their children and spouses.
Believe me when I say that your W is working off from the same dog-eared WAS script which is why we hammer to GAL and back off on WAS.
I have had a front-row seat to my late father's affairs and he's behaved pretty awful when he was heavily involved in his Multiple OWs. One incident was when I flew home to spend the Thanksgiving holiday with my family. Where was Dad on TG day? Yep...with his OW, mot his own daughter. Silly man!
Oh, and where are those OWs? Consigned to the dustbin of history, never seen again.
Another interesting topic - my WAW wife has serious mental issues, was hospitalized in a mental clinic and tried to kill herself twice. She is on all kinds of antipsychotic meds. She went postal when she was 43. That was back in 1993.
Wait are you talking about her mother?
1993 was 21 years ago so either your W has been on antipsychotic meds for that amount of time or someone older.
In any event it sounds very plausible to me either way.
Yes, I am talking abut my WAW's mother. She has been on antipsychotic meds for abut 20 years.
Yes, I am talking abut my WAW's mother. She has been on antipsychotic meds for abut 20 years.
So maybe history is repeating itself, it is very possible.
I have been taking some courses in genetics and have also used 23andme and this does interest me.
Whether it is nature or nurture, however bottom line is that YOU didn't break her and YOU can't FIX her.
Right - I didnt break her nor can i fix her.
I don't like it when she lies to me and it's so obvious. I told her look you don't have to lie anymore, lets just be real. She gets very very angry at that. How can I have a relationship/friendship with someone who is lying all of the time to me? It is infuriating.
I don't like it when she lies to me and it's so obvious. I told her look you don't have to lie anymore, lets just be real. She gets very very angry at that.
How can I have a relationship/friendship with someone who is lying all of the time to me? It is infuriating.
You cant have a relationship with someone that lies.
Do you know how to tell if a WAW is lying?
Answer:
Her lips are moving!
So I made the appointment with the Divorce Mediator office tomorrow. I am officially done. I can't take the lies, the affair, the spew, any of it. My WAW will be served he papers after Christmas. Why after Christmas, because I have a little class unlike her. She told me she was in love with her affair partner on our 19th year anniverssary, I could have her served to coincide with Christmas, but I won't do that. In my mind, that's taking the high road. I will wait until January 1.
Jan,
I think you need to be talked down the ledge, sweetie.
DBing isn't for the faint of the heart. This is the toughest trail you'll ever walk through and it is a marathon. I would suggest that you get a grip on your emotions and not react out of self-righteous indignation. We tell newbies to check their bruised egos at the front door. This is about saving your M and family. Wouldn't you agree that this is worth fighting for...to have an intact family.
We don't call this whole DB shebang as akin to riding the roller coaster for nothing! It is tough mentally and emotionally for the LBS. We always emphasize not to take any drastic actions while under emotional stress. Try the 48 to 72-hour rule where you refrain from taking any action for those antsy feelings will dissipate. Reacting will make one do things they regret and cannot take back.
Remember to keep your eyes on the prize: your family.
It took a while for your M to get into this mess and it will take a while to right the ship.
Many success stories occurred over a period of several months to years. Because all of them loved their WAS and very much wanted to keep their families together.
Stick with us and step away from filing any D paperwork or see a divorce meditator for we all know that you truly do not want a D. Is that right, Jan?
(((Jan)))
Let let me add to what she just said. The reason you need to let go does not necessarily mean you must file for divorce.
filing for divorce will not stop what is going on.
it will not stop your pain it will just mean you're divorced
my suggestion is deal with those things first.
you can always file for divorce
Oh my God! I have so many conflicting emotions and none of them are good. I am in a dark place and don't see a way out. I wish I were stronger and more courageous but I am in so much pain and despair.
My goal is to have my wife back, committed to our marriage, and our children in their intact home. They are everything I have worked for my entire life. To face losing them is unthinkable and will certainly be my Waterloo.
I honestly don't think I can do a marathon - you are right though, I will have to step away from the divorce process and just BREATHE
Jan,
Why don't you make a goal for yourself: try to get through each day without throwing in the towel. We all have been where you are and do get your pain & despair. Understandable.
I was so devastated the first week after Ms. Wonka left that a good friend stayed with me for the first 3 days with me and wrote a to-do list for me on a daily basis because I COULD NOT function at all. Each time I finished a task, I'd cross it off on the list. That was HUGE for someone like me with a very independent streak with a dash of being strong willed.
Also had very severe episodes of PTSD for three straight months immediately after Ms. Wonka left the house. Pretty dark times for me and here I am....thriving baby.
Hang in there, honey.
NAJ1964,
Stay strong, all of us have been where you are.
Become the best YOU that you can be, I have been at this now for almost a year and a half. I want all the same things you do.
I made the decision that I to own up to my part of the failed M and voweled to make myself better.
I have done that and you can too!!
I thought of it like this. I cant control my W I can only control myself and if I want any shot at all of R with my W I had to change myself. I started out doing it for my M and slowly it became more about me.
When this happened my W took notice. She is still a WAW at this moment but if my W sees I have changed then so does the whole world.
I want nothing more than a renewed M with my W but I had to change first and now I have my confidence back. It still hurts but it is somewhat more tolerable and I am so happy I didn't give up. I am fighting for my M and I think you want to also do the same.
You have 2 children you need to be strong for them right now.
Hang in there!!
Thanks for the support yall. it helps knowing you are there rooting for me. I just never ever thought I would be in the situation. I always thought it was for other people. I always felt sory for my friends who were breaking up/divorcing and thought if they only had what I had. What an unempathetic fool I was.
I will take the challenge to make 3 goals for myself everyday. They will be small but a goal is a goal right?
1. Practice thought shifting when my mind goes to dark places
2. Eating right - real meals
3. Denote one hour a day to exercise
4. STFU
Looks like a good place to start
I will take the challenge to make 3 goals for myself everyday. They will be small but a goal is a goal right?
1. Practice thought shifting when my mind goes to dark places
2. Eating right - real meals
3. Denote one hour a day to exercise
4. STFU
Like!
I know it's 4 goals, I said 3 but yes I listed 4
I honestly don't think I can do a marathon - you are right though, I will have to step away from the divorce process and just BREATHE
You know how you do a marathon? You train for it. You get the best gear (spew jacket) and you pick a program to get you to your goal (DB). No one runs a marathon the first day out. They have to train, daily. They have to take days off. They have to take care of themselves so they can continue to train. They have to nurse injuries, they have to train through the pain.
I started a 5k training program, and day one has you jog for 60 seconds. So like others suggested, set short goals for yourself and build upon them. Build up your endurance. Work on detaching. Discover yourself, because at the end of the day YOU are responsible for your happiness. You have to look at yourself in the mirror.
Train for this jan, regardless of the outcome.
I feel that if I do things with my WAW that is giving her tacit approval to be in an open relationship (date her other AP) while she still sees me an the family. No she is not living with me but it still feels that she gets to cake and eat it too. How do I deal with that emotion ad dynamic.
For example, when we go to Disney World for out D6, how should I act? Distant, uninterested? I certainly don't want to post for any family photos with Mickey Mouse, that feels totally false and wrong to me.
Am I missing something here? Do I just swallow my "self righteous anger" and eat the [censored] sandwich for the sake of playing happy family?
For example, when we go to Disney World for out D6, how should I act? Distant, uninterested? I certainly don't want to post for any family photos with Mickey Mouse, that feels totally false and wrong to me.
A lot of EXPECTATIONS here that things are just going to go back to the way they were.
It will not turn out the way you are EXPECTING, that much I am sure.
Yes you need to work through your anger because that is not going to do anyone any good.
Should you be angry - YES, but if you show it then you are giving out power that is undeserved.
Turn you anger into your shield.
DETACHMENT, NO EXPECTATIONS, GAL all help with this.
We have all been where you are, moving forward in a dignified way is hard.
How do I turn my anger into a shield exactly?
Don't mean to be obtuse but metaphors are not
My strong suit.
My wife wanted an open marriage - I did not.
I feel that I am validating her request. How should I act around her?
When did your wife say she wanted an open marriage -- before or after BD?
Our kids holiday performances were today at school. We have two kids - D6 and S9. My WAW wife and I work at the same hospital different departments. She called and wanted to know if we are going to ride to school together. I did not reply but we did sit together at the school auditorium.
She seems to call and want us to ride together for school events, therapy, etc... I find that incredibly f*cked up. I have not said that of course, I just don't respond.
What gives - anyone care to make a guess? Am I doing the right thing by ignoring her?
Always in a state of confusion.
On ou 19th anniverssary, my wife told me she was in love with someone else and wanted my permission to have an affair with her. The other woman is in an open relationship marriage.
I said no, I am definately not OK with this. She continued to see her, the relationship turned physical, I asked her to move out which she did in October.
What does BD mean? I am unclear and don't see it on the abbreviations list.
Hi
BD - usually its Bomb Dropped/Date
with the riding together its up to you how you feel about it but if your not happy about it dont do it.
I read on some peoples situations how the WAS likes to still keep the 'happy family' element when it suits them. whether thats because they are confused about their choice, or whether they think its them being 'noble' only they know and it doesnt do us favours to guess
As usual, I have to guess. Christ, this seems to be a guessing game - it all boils down to guesswork and that is depressing. There is no "answer" only possibilities and permutations and feelings all nebulous stuff.
Bottom line - my wife left me, is f#cking someone else and there is NOTHING I can do about.
I feel as if I have gone insane.
Enough of the pity party I continue to throw myself.
Here is what I am doing.
1. going to IC for me weekly
2. not pursuing
3. trying really hard to not think about my WAW and her choices
4. It hurts but she complains about not having $$ but spends on trips to San Francisco to visit her OW at several times per month. She pursues the OP way more than the ow pursues her, both financially and emotionally - but that is not my problem anymore. It hurts to catch her in lies but I will not confront it, I will just accept her and try to understand she is hurting and confused.
5. I look at my situation in daily terms now, can I just get through this day and not think about 1 year from now, two years from now, etc... It's easier to think about things that way.
6. Enforce boundaries - when my wife shouts or curses, I will say "I don't like the way you are talking to me" and if she continues I will walk away.
I can do these little steps and hopefully make myself less insane
(Originally posted on T-mom)
I wanted to chime in here.
My WAW was sexually abused as a child by her father for many years until she was about 9. I knew about it, but we never ever talked about it. I felt she would talk about it if and when she wanted to. I know this has affected her deeply and her world view and her relationship views. When I look back, all of her love relationships have been subversive (with her high school teacher, having affairs before we got married, etc...). I have brought this up in therapy, but she is resistant to talking about it. Should I continue bring this up in therapy and just let it lie and let her figure it out. I always thought I could help her with this issue, but I am learning that we can't fix other people.
Confused as usual
Naj
I am answering on your thread and no doubt the vets can help.
Absolutely there is no fix for any other person and frankly that is too much responsibility. We can by acceptance and detachment and by being the best we can be, offering love provide an environment in which change can happen. Release happens when the time is right, it can be a word, a gesture or even a post on a web site. Something that resonates and causes a switch in the internal view.
Big changes can happen in a moment, a single breath, once a knowing happens then change occurs until the next stuck point.
If your spouse has mixed sexual feelings (some of which could arise from childhood abuse) then this needs special care and understanding for BOTH of you. Naj, it is you that we concern ourselves with, you are the one here on this thread with the confusion of dealing with a very difficult sitch. You are the one here who has our care and support.
Abuse by a parent for a child particularly sexual abuse breaks every taboo, law and deserves the full force of justice. It can confuse sex and love in the mind of the child too. It can create guilt and physical as well as other types of reactions. It is so awful that it is not true, having said that W is now an adult who can choose to address these issues in her life and it make take her a whole lifetime of work. As her spouse, if W is heavily affected still this may influence you.
Naj, what can you do to heal yourself?
I believe you can have help with this to resolve your feelings about how this has affected you. I would suggest IC to get you to a place where you can be comfortable and without judgement of W and yourself. In a place of personal peace you can listen and encourage W to open to change and release.
If you want to post further on this, the wonderful folks here will respond with all of the love they can.
Vanilla
Minor correction
My error, I did mean specialist IC unless you feel your current IC will be ok.
Vanilla
Went to D6 holiday party. Of course my WAW was there - she did not initiative conversation about us riding together as she has done in the past.
At the party, I purposly stayed busy by setting up food and drinks and serving the kids. I also made a point to introduce myself to many many parents, most who want to have a play date with my D6. That made me happy and I chatted with so many people which I have not done before the DB. I am a shy person by nature.
My WAW wife had a few minor commens which she initiated and then she left after about 20 minutes. She did not say goodbye nor do I look up to make any eye contact. She did ask me to take her food contirbutions to another party, I said OK. Usually I would text her to say how great her food was, thanks for making, etc... I did not do that today.
On the days she has D6, my D looks like a rag muffin. Today she did not have a coat on, and it was cold, did not have her hair combed and just looked like a street kid. I did not say anything and bit my tongue.
Thoughts on how I handled myself? Anything I can do better, I am always open for suggestions.
Naj
If your child is like a ragamuffin, it's time you acted. Not for you but for that precious little daughter.
Please Naj, D6 is your beautiful offspring, step in, gently, say no. D6 is very important to you, be brave and when you see this, no matter how much you love W, intercede.
Vanilla
Trying to look into myself -looking for self awareness
Always have been protective of my innercie whicisnamprotectiln strategy
From moving much as Army brat. Don't let your options show
With people as you will only get hurt when you have to
Leave again. I can see now how this strategy has
Been damaging to those I love most. They see it
As emotuonally distant- I saw it as self protection.
I think this is an insight - potential breakthrough?