Maybell XXIII I'm not trying to be passive/aggressive. I'm not sure what I'm doing.
I didn't complain to him about announcing and I don't object to the day. But I do feel like he takes me for granted. And maybe my desire for control is rising up. I feel like I knew my path better six weeks ago and I have lost my way. I'm having trouble finding it.
MB bug toldnme last winter when I sounded like that not to rush. This stuff takes time. You seem like you are doing good. BTW ky STBXW used to tell me when she was taking the kids. A year later she is getting better about discussing stuff and making plans so we can co parent better. Things change. Peace
"H, the kids and I would like to have you here on Christmas morning. We'll hold off opening gifts until 8 but you know the kids, if you're much past 8 all that'll be left is the clean-up. You can bring a coffee cake, I'll provide the coffee. We should be finished by 11 and you'll have the rest of the day on your own. I know I'll need some down time."
Yes! This^^^ It's perfect. I used something similar for Thanksgiving, plan to use something similar for Christmas. It didn't totally work at Thanksgiving, honestly, I was ready for him to go long before he actually did, but I got close.
I like it too. It sets expectations and gives clarity to what you want.
I give myself a B-
I couldn't muster a smile except when the kids were around. But we parented together ok. He came in and stuck around without taking off his jacket for an hour.
The kids were in and out the whole time which made it very difficult to talk.
At one point he asked about a budget for the kids to buy something for each other, but because one of the kids burst into the room at the exact moment he was talking I misheard and thought he was asking about gifts for each other. I snapped "well we were living together then" and he corrected my misunderstanding. So I had to apologize for that. Not good.
I said he could come over in the morning for the present time and stay till around lunch. He asked if we wanted to go to dinner on Christmas Eve and I didn't know how to answer, but one of the kids burst in at that time so I didn't answer. Also not great. We talked a little about the weekend. He asked if he'd see me Friday and I said no because I have tickets someplace; then he asked if he'd see me Saturday at a kid event and I confirmed yes to that. And then he kissed the kids good night and left.
I think I could have done better. But I'm not sure how. I'm really, really tired. I'm not ok with him dating, I'm rattled by my dream and the psychic, which I realize isn't his fault. And I am not inclined to compete against the eighty or so 20-something women on his Instagram account for my H's attention. I don't know what would have constituted "better."
I definitely get a vibe off him that is a little warmer. I don't know what that means though. It could just be guilt.
I'm definitely not done with him.
He left all his winter clothes & boots here. Also his diplomas, childhood pictures, something that belongs to his mother that's very important to her, and some other things I can't imagine him leaving behind forever.
Somebody help me. I'm so tired. I don't know how to wade through all this, and I need to know what to make of it for my journal and for the start I'm going to make on my DB plan from the book.
Maybell,
I think you did fine. In regards to leaving stuff behind (pictures, diplomas, etcetera) my xh did the same. They are still here and his FB account says he's married. What to think about that? In my opinion, not too much. Your h has stuff at your house. Don't read anything into it other than your h has stuff at the house. What do I think about my h still having his status as married? Nothing. Maybe he hasn't noticed. Maybe he doesn't care. Doesn't mean anything in particular. I don't say that to be negative-just saying I think we look for meaning in things sometimes that well, are just what they are.
You got some Christmas issues resolved. Now enjoy the season:)
Maybell, I hear that you're tired. I can't blame you. You've faced so much with so much grace and yet you're still at it.
What can you do for you? Just YOU. Something that celebrates how far you've come without relation to DB or H or all this crapola. What would that be?
Do you think putting this down for a while would help? It's hard to turn our brains off from thinking about it all but it's worth a shot, no? Just for a little bit?
Ss, my job is just for me. I really enjoy it. There is so much to absorb.
I enjoyed Thanksgiving a lot.
And I'm working on slowly purging my house of everything that is neither useful now beautiful.
I plan to get my nails done this weekend.
I just finished reading a long novel last night and I've got to pick up my book club book tomorrow from the library.
I also have a lot of reading to do for my new job.
I have used grace HERE but not necessarily with my H. I can not express the way the timing of all this blowing up as we executed a cross-country move complicated things for me. I lump it all together as impact of the move, something that wears off over time and therefore isn't really real. Tonight he seemed like My Husband, not the jerk who has cheated and disrespected and abandoned me. It's not real enough.
I'm off to bed. I've been up since 5:30 and I'm toast. Good night, all.
Thinking of you Maybell. I know this is all so hard and you have been so brave and strong. Hang in there.
I have used grace HERE but not necessarily with my H.
Oh man, this is SO me. It's like the grace flies right out the window when he's around.
He's a grace stealer, that's what he is.
No. Really. Where does the grace go?
I have used grace HERE but not necessarily with my H.
This has been running through my mind a lot in the last few weeks. How easy I find it to be a great person around other people and how hard I find it to be that person around him. I want to change that.
I guess I'll get through the holidays and try to continue acclimating to this new working mom lifestyle and let that percolate in the back of my mind. There are clearly things about him or my experience of him that hurt me a lot, or brought up old hurts, and those need to be dealt with. No matter whether he & I reconcile or not.
I am really tired and I'm finding it difficult to backburner him. I'm trying. But the more tired I am the more he pops up. And of course because of Christmas I'm going to have to spend too much time with and on him and that makes it all harder. Believe me, I'm trying to let him go. But it doesn't feel real.
It doesn't feel impossible to reconcile when he's around, why is that?
I keep forgetting that there's a purpose to the space I asked for. It's not to make him miss me. It's to help me pull myself together. I need to focus on that.
Sorry I've been so wordy lately. I want to be better. I keep tripping over myself.
I hate this.
I have used grace HERE but not necessarily with my H.
This has been running through my mind a lot in the last few weeks. How easy I find it to be a great person around other people and how hard I find it to be that person around him. I want to change that.
Maybell, let me throw something out there. Take it or leave it as you need to right now.
I see grace and detachment as going hand in hand. I believe I'm a little more detached from my H than you are yours. And I believe I've shown him a good deal of grace, especially surrounding the S. It's much easier to show grace when your life doesn't hang on the outcome. I asked H if he had a preference which "other" weekend he took D12. He did, of course, because it meshes with the duck's schedule. I could have not asked, I could have made a stink about which weekend was mine, but truth is, I don't care. I could have tried to make it hard on him, keep him away from the duck, tried to control it all, but I didn't. Maybe that's stupid, maybe that's showing grace. I choose to see it as the latter.
I think when you are able to detach more, the grace will come more naturally. But for now, you are doing great!
Rpp, I needed to hear this. Thanks.
Why grade at all? Give yourself a break.
At one point he asked about a budget for the kids to buy something for each other, but because one of the kids burst into the room at the exact moment he was talking I misheard and thought he was asking about gifts for each other. I snapped "well we were living together then" and he corrected my misunderstanding. So I had to apologize for that. Not good.
What's not good about it? You misunderstood, made a false assumption, apologized. I think that's good.
I said he could come over in the morning for the present time and stay till around lunch. He asked if we wanted to go to dinner on Christmas Eve and I didn't know how to answer, but one of the kids burst in at that time so I didn't answer. Also not great.
Again, why not great? Think about it and bring it up with him when you have an answer.
Learn to say, "Let me think about that," or "I'm sorry, I'm not understanding. Can you repeat?" or "I heard <paraphrase>. Is that correct?"
It took me a long time to slow the conversation down and learn to listen. to. hear.
I want to go back to the P/A comment I made. Most people don't try to be P/A, it's what we've learned to use in an attempt to get what we need but still protect ourselves from being hurt. It rarely works that way but sometimes we sleepwalk through life.
If we don't ask for what we need, we can always blame the other person for not getting it, not divining our needs. We have a ready scapegoat for unexpressed anger.
Have you ever written out all the things you're angry about in your marriage? All the things you're angry abut with your father? It might be helpful as a starting point. I don't mean here, but in your journal. It would be a good thing then to start with your new IC in the New Year.
((( )))
Could this be the low that happens before the next level of detachment? Or is it just the holidays?
before, when I kept exploding at him (and it really hasn't been SO long that I've stopped doing that) I felt this compulsion to connect with him. Now I miss being connected TO him but I'm not feeling the same compulsion. Just a deep sadness and missing him. I had a dream several weeks ago that he'd locked himself into a room and he could hear me banging but he couldn't get out because he didn't want to get up from his chair. And so I had to walk away from the room where he was because there was no point in hanging out in the hallway. But I felt sad, leaving him locked in that room with nothing but a video game.
My dreams are very clear. Lol.
Our conversation last night was frustrating to me because I've enjoyed thinking of what the kids would like and what they need for Christmas. And then he came over and was talking almost in terms of quotas and lists, and what could have been this excited planning was mechanical, conducted in an undertone because the kids weren't following directions and he didn't want to wait any longer (and never took his jacket off).
I want my Christmas to be as great as my Thanksgiving was. If this is how he experiences family life it's no wonder he doesn't want to be in one.
Is it my fault this is what it feels like to him? Probably partly. I put so much pressure on myself to make the magic happen that it wasn't always very enjoyable. His family is like that too, though, so it's not all me.
I want this year to be different. Also I don't want to be hanging out in the hallway knocking on a door that will never open.
I read some of that detachment thread today and it has given me a lot to think about. And I'll do Labug's anger exercise. I think, though, that at the end of the day the best thing I could do is to live my life heart forward like I want to, living a life that's as full of meaning and joy as I can foster.
One last thing... I came home this evening to a D11 who was kicking and yelling and fussing about ridiculous things. I kept my boundaries strong and then out of nowhere she stopped and hugged me and told me a whole list of unrelated things that had frustrated her. It was like a miracle.
I can learn!! I can change and grow. Now... Can I manifest that even to my H who is not really my husband?
Small win tonight.
H wants us to put all the Christmas gifts into a shared Google doc to coordinate the purchases. He created one and shared it around 9 this morning. I looked at it this evening after I got the kids put to bed and felt like all the little elves had been knifed in the gut. It was not very specific (his said things like "book, tbd") on the gift but excruciatingly specific on the who.
It comes down to... I don't want to do it and I don't see the purpose of it. If he wants to do it to feel organized that's fine. I don't. Which should also be fine since we live apart. Shouldn't it? So I sent him a very carefully considered email thanking him for putting it together, validating an idea he'd shared last night that I had objected to (I had a good reason and I tried to say he could do it at his house but I didn't want it to be for my house), telling him a few of my plans and some key things the kids had requested, and asking if we needed to do the spreadsheet.
I got a pretty terse reply back, and I started to get upset, but then I remembered my dream of the locked door, the detachment stuff, and that I'm already dead. And I realized, I can't control his responses. I can't make him remember why it's worthwhile to work things out. If he can't get there on his own I will be better off than strapped to an emotional dead weight.
And I feel better. A lot better, actually. I just have to keep remembering those things. The door is locked and he doesn't want to open it. Detachment means he is his own person and that's a good thing. I'm already dead... And I'm still ok.
Oh, I almost forgot, for those who've been patient enough to follow me since June... He's asked for a Kindle for Christmas. (He'd asked for a $200 Jawbone for his birthday 10 weeks after he moved out) From "the kids." Yeah, no. Same principles will apply for Christmas as for his birthday.
Maybell, you sound good today! Strong! Keep it up!
Again MB, I'm confused. You want him to be involved but when he tries, it's just not good enough.
Or that's what I'm seeing. I'm trying not to be overly critical, really, but when I read that he'd made this google doc, my heart rose up, "Look at this guy, trying to coparent and share with MB."
Then BLAM!
What gives, girl?
I don't know.
Maybe it's a matter of style?
I enjoy giving gifts and I got a lot of pleasure from planning things I thought people would love. I always wanted him and me to share that. Exploring together, talking about what would be fun and unexpected. And he saw it as a chore and a materialistic thing and resisted even being involved.
To put the spreadsheet together feels to me like getting through a chore. It's worse than being alone because now I feel like I have to justify every little thing. there's a price list on there. It feels the opposite of creative and loving. It's like making a to do list. And that's not how I want to be.
I take your point, though.
His reply to me was that he didn't want to make things worse and that he was worried that everything be eve and that there wasn't any perceived competition. This morning I asked him if he was worried about competition between the kids or them seeing competition between us. I haven't heard back yet.
It is also true that I'm struggling to see anything he does positively because I have 't forgiven him for really anything yet. I guess that should be my Advent practice.
Thank you, Master Yoda. I wish I was better.
Hi Maybell,
FWIW, early in our marriage my husband wanted to have a "family meeting" to go over a spreadsheet about what bills had been paid and needed to be paid, budgeting, what was coming up the next week, etc.
It wasn't a bad idea, but I hated it, because I sat in meetings all day at work like that, and I didn't want my home life to feel like my work life. We eventually gave them up because they made me unhappy.
It's one of my bigger regrets now, because that was the way that STBX felt comfortable talking to me about these topics. When the meetings ended, so did most conversations on these things. He just wasn't capable of an ad hoc conversation, which is what I envisioned. I just didn't realize that at the time. He needed the structure.
Good Luck with the Christmas presents
When we were first married, we also had a family meeting to go over a spreadsheet of our budget, etc., same as you. It lasted maybe 8 months? And then my H said he wasn't comfortable discussing it any more (it was NEVER contentious) and we abandoned that practice. I was really disappointed because while we did that I felt like we were a team pulling together.
He kept the finances so it was 13 years before I understood how my spending impacted the family and by then between the two of us we had driven ourselves into a bit of a ditch.
I backpedaled enough via email today that I think we're going to do a take-2 of the conversation.
Please tell me how to be better. I don't like feeling so incapable of generosity. I feel completely like I have no business even contemplating being in an adult relationship right now.
Also if there is someplace I can look for how to forgive that would be good as well.
Well, if I knew the secret to forgiving on demand I would definitely be implementing myself
. Forgiveness arises from emotion, not logic - so while I know its the right thing to do, I just can't get there yet.
It sounds corny - but I think just recognizing the need to forgive is a pretty major step that a lot of people don't take.
I do find that I feel more positive towards him when I focus on the love his daughters have for him - it taps into more positive emotions. I know I need to forgive him for that bond to have the best chance at remaining healthy.
Glad you're working through the present issue with him. It's not what you would have liked, but your kids will probably be happy with the end result, however you end up getting there.
I was reading a list of book quotes that spoke to people yesterday, and this was one of them, from The Kite Runner:
"I wondered if that was how forgiveness budded; not with the fanfare of epiphany, but with pain gathering its things, packing up, and slipping away unannounced in the middle of the night."
To me, that means forgiveness will come when it's ready, and gradually - you can't force it. That seems about right, in my experience so far. I think some ideas are key on the path: knowing that forgiveness means that you don't condone it, but you accept that it is how things are; and that people do not necessarily intend to hurt you but maybe don't know how to do things a different way.
I checked out a book on forgiveness once and it was not so great (talked a lot about how people can feel your forgiveness from a distance and it will affect change in them.. a little too mystical for me!), but there was a good mantra in there - I have it copied down at work in a drawer and when I'm feeling angry I read it. I'll have to dig around and find it online!
You know what I hate about Google docs? The number of times they've stepped in for actual conversation.
But I see what raliced said about that being a comfortable form of communication for him and I'm trying to not resent them so much.
I MISSED HIM during a lot of our marriage. He was gone so much and then he wanted to communicate via spreadsheet? We picked our first child's name via blind-ballot spreadsheet, for pete's sake.
When I got more information about what he was trying to do it made more sense to use the spreadsheet. But that information wasn't reflected in the spreadsheet, and it wasn't part of the highly interrupted conversation on Tuesday night, and apparently I'm so cr@ppy at communicating myself that I have to get annoyed at not hearing things the way I expect first to ask the question that gets me the information I need to understand where he's coming from.
I can't resent that because apparently I'm no better at it than he is.
Which makes things feel highly hopeless. How can I *ever* be in a great relationship if I'm so bad at communicating (and yet so wordy!!)?
I want him to say the marriage is important to him and that we can go to something like Retrouvaille and learn to be halfway decent at being married. But that won't happen.
It doesn't help that he's doing a quick trip away today that I saw the ticket purchase for last week but he didn't tell me about it till he was en route and I suspect he's on a sweet little getaway and not a work trip. I need to put those thoughts aside.
Gah. I have really come down in my opinion of myself. I'm NOT a peach. I'm broken.
He is in the locked room and he doesn't want to leave it.
I am already dead. And that's OK.
And if he goes traveling to meet some cute little 20 something, I can't control it. Either he realizes that he's too good for that, or he doesn't, and either way I'm OK. It doesn't impact me. The worst that will happen is we will divorce and how I'm living now will be the norm between him and me. I can be happy at this level.
I really like my job. But I do miss my friends. I don't see people very often anymore (ran into several this evening at a gingerbread house auction) and I'm struggling to feel connected with my support network when I spend all my time at work or at home. This weekend I'll connect with a few of them. But I need other things to be my focus than this separation. I'm struggling with that as I get used to my new working-mom lifestyle.
How many employees are at your work? And have you met any potentially good friends (at-work support)?
Btw, I'm not feeling like a peach these days, either. Hard to think about anything but my flaws
Two bosses & me. Great, great women.
I think I will be ok. There is fun to be had. I'll be a work in progress for a long time. As long as the trajectory stays generally upward time is on my side.
My best support is coming from 2 women I met via my work. Another since moved without anyone them I would have been sunk.
Other working women can be your best allies. They know the work it takes they know how hard it is.
I really like my job. But I do miss my friends. I don't see people very often anymore (ran into several this evening at a gingerbread house auction) and I'm struggling to feel connected with my support network when I spend all my time at work or at home.
Maybell, I totally understand this. It is difficult to find time for yourself, for support, and for GAL when you are juggling work and house and kids. And I know you'll be OK, you'll figure out how to make time for what you need. Just sending you a hug today.
Forgiveness does come along but I learned that we have to be able to forgive ourselves first. That was my stumbling block for a long time, I was so hard on myself always seeking perfection and never getting there. How could I forgive myself, I had so many faults?
But I learned to let go of that harsh judge inside me (with the help of my IC). I'm human, I make mistakes, I'm sometimes petty, controlling, gossipy and bossy. But I have whole lot of good qualities, I'm compassionate, intelligent, generous, funny, helpful, loving and open.
I try to feed those things on the second list and starve those on the first. That includes not wallowing in guilt about them.
Work on letting go of beating yourself up. Accept your missteps, they're not the end of the world. Forgive yourself.
Use your negative reactions to your H as a guide to your next step. Are you reacting or responding? If you're reacting, why? And are you reacting to the current situation or is it old stuff?
Who do you want to be in the interaction? You get to make that choice with every interaction. How powerful is that?
Everything we see in ourselves and can't forgive, we also see in others and can't forgive.
The communication piece will be a lifelong process for me. I grew up in a family of twisted communications. I still have a hard time communicating with my oldest brother, cause I drop right back in to trying to translate the code. It's exhausting.
I had the book Family Communications out just last week. Nonviolent Communication was also helpful for me.
MB, you're getting there but sometimes it's like slogging through mud but then when we reach the solid ground, everything starts to fall in to place.
We'll hold you up through those really mucky parts.
Labug, I appreciate that very much. I've already used it a few times and shared it with a friend who had some struggles of her own. It has made a difference.
Two nights ago I had a really crazy dream that I can't remember at all, but when I woke up I had one of the guys u flirted with over Thanksgiving very much in my mind. And I felt repulsed by my H. I thought about it a lot and decided, well, I'm going to look into that and see what it's about. And if this isn't a good thing I can still keep my eyes averted from H. I don't need a guy to be happy (though a guy would be very nice). But it was nice to have the distraction from my H.
Well, this guy isn't all that. He's much less than he was in the dream. And here I amstill not looking back at my H. Because he hasn't been actually married to me in his mind for more than two years, and at this point I might say closer to four.
I have had enough. I can't imagine what he could say to me that I could possibly take seriously. He has broken every promise. Told too many lies. Tried to hide too much. if he came to me tomorrow and said he wanted to try to reconcile I'd feel like an idiot for taking him seriously. He is not trustworthy.
While things are in this limbo, I have three swords hanging over me: knowing this house isn't appropriate for a single-parent family; worrying about his oversight of how I spend the money, and constantly worrying he's going to pull the rug out from under me in some way; and the fact that I can not pursue any other relationship of my own without jeopardizing my spousal support, even though he's the original bad actor.
I have given it my best shot. Maybe I could have DB'd better. Or found it sooner. But I'm not going to dance the pick-me dance for someone I wouldn't even believe if I succeded in drawing his eye. I don't want to kiss him anymore and the thought of sex with him gives me heeby-jeebies.
I'm going to spend the next few months getting things lined up. I Intend to file. I want to be in charge of my own happiness and wondering what Mack truck will be blindsiding me and when is not conducive to my self-confidence.
It may be a long time before I find someone to love me fully. That's ok. I believe it will be worth the wait. But at least I'll be ready for it when it happens.
Hugs to you Maybell. Although this probably is not the outcome you wanted originally, you sound so sure of yourself, confident and in control and that is very commendable. Not sure what the future holds for me, but you've inspired me to keep moving forward regardless of the outcome and work to attain some security and independence for myself and the kids. Thank you for that.
Labug, I appreciate that very much. I've already used it a few times and shared it with a friend who had some struggles of her own. It has made a difference.
Two nights ago I had a really crazy dream that I can't remember at all, but when I woke up I had one of the guys u flirted with over Thanksgiving very much in my mind. And I felt repulsed by my H. I thought about it a lot and decided, well, I'm going to look into that and see what it's about. And if this isn't a good thing I can still keep my eyes averted from H. I don't need a guy to be happy (though a guy would be very nice). But it was nice to have the distraction from my H.
Well, this guy isn't all that. He's much less than he was in the dream. And here I amstill not looking back at my H. Because he hasn't been actually married to me in his mind for more than two years, and at this point I might say closer to four.
I have had enough. I can't imagine what he could say to me that I could possibly take seriously. He has broken every promise. Told too many lies. Tried to hide too much. if he came to me tomorrow and said he wanted to try to reconcile I'd feel like an idiot for taking him seriously. He is not trustworthy.
While things are in this limbo, I have three swords hanging over me: knowing this house isn't appropriate for a single-parent family; worrying about his oversight of how I spend the money, and constantly worrying he's going to pull the rug out from under me in some way; and the fact that I can not pursue any other relationship of my own without jeopardizing my spousal support, even though he's the original bad actor.
I have given it my best shot. Maybe I could have DB'd better. Or found it sooner. But I'm not going to dance the pick-me dance for someone I wouldn't even believe if I succeded in drawing his eye. I don't want to kiss him anymore and the thought of sex with him gives me heeby-jeebies.
I'm going to spend the next few months getting things lined up. I Intend to file. I want to be in charge of my own happiness and wondering what Mack truck will be blindsiding me and when is not conducive to my self-confidence.
It may be a long time before I find someone to love me fully. That's ok. I believe it will be worth the wait. But at least I'll be ready for it when it happens.
How about get the holidays behind you and see what's what?
Why do you have those 3 swords? did he hang them or did you?
I wish you the best with whatever you decide, whenever you decide.
Where die the pick-me dance come from? I don't think anyone here has encouraged that.
That's exactly 180 from what's good for you.
((( )))
How are you feeling this morning, Maybell? I can't give you any advice other than I believe that you will do what is right for you when the time is right.
Sometimes when I've read your threads, I've thought that some sort of legal separation would be beneficial just because when I read about all of the stress around parenting time, the house and finances, I think some structure would be beneficial.
I agree with Labug, though. Let the holidays pass. Continue to sleep on it for a few weeks.
You'll do the right thing.
I guess I'm dropping the rope.
I guess you could say I hung the swords. He's not rushing me anywhere. But I feel very much at his mercy. There are things I want -- like travel, etc. -- that I feel like I can't take charge of because they require me using resources he's providing. And because we're supporting two households I feel a responsibility to keep us financially afloat by making decisions that are good for the two of us when there no longer is an us. I want to be free to make decisions that are good for me and let him make his own decisions.
My single greatest need is for security and I've never had it with him. We've always had one foot out the door. I've been living with total insecurity for several years continuously now, between our several moves, his affair, the breakdown of the marriage, etc. Too much change over and over again. I just want to settle someplace where I can really feel at home in.
This house is TOO MUCH for me by myself, and it also represents a dream I thought we shared, of providing a home base for the kids, space for entertaining and building a community together, space for him to be a guy and cultivate his guy network independently of work, etc. This house makes no sense if it's just me. It ties me to financial commitments that restrict me from enjoying what I really want. And it will sell best in the spring/summer because it has some beautiful landscaping, which is stunning in bloom and VERY COSTLY to maintain.
If I legally separate or divorce I will have a known set of resources to manage (and plan for my long-term future intelligently) and I can live for myself. I can have a home where I feel secure, I can choose the one that makes sense for my own goals.
I never wanted to be separated or divorced. I don't honestly want it now. I recognize that there are things about me that moved us in that direction, and I am tremendously grateful that I am on the path to healing many of them (and some I'm already well on the way to resolving). I am sad at this. I do not believe he wants to change and so there is nothing for me to hold on to. This separation and all his affairs (and I do think there were at least a couple of one night stands before the one I know about for sure) are on him; my desire always was to make the marriage great and whenever I tried to work with him on that he didn't even want to acknowledge it.
I do feel like I've been dancing the pick-me dance. That all the changes that I'm supposed to be showing him are steps in that dance. I am not perfect, but I don't think I should need to be perfect to be well-loved. He's not perfect either and I loved him. I was willing to accept the best that he had to give even though I wanted a little more. Maybe I made him feel that and that's part of why he wasn't faithful. I always lived in hope that things could be better and that they would be. He could have dealt with things other ways. He even said, more than once, that he didn't know why he couldn't be bothered to do things for me, that I wanted so little that it should have been easy.
If he and I aren't going to be happy together then I'd like the space to be happy alone. I want the freedom to arrange my life in a way that works for me. I don't have that now, I'm living with the consequences of HIS choices (especially this house I live in) and they inhibit me.
I'm not taking any actions right now, I'm just thinking through my plan. I don't believe reconciliation will happen and I'm tired of taking it into account when I think about what I'd like my future to be.
Dropping the rope doesn't make me happy. But it does make me feel like I will have the space to be, in time.
No, I'm not really OK. But I have to find a way to be. I can't spend my life like this.
(((MB))) you remind me of where I was late last winter. Thoughts and prayers for you. This choice and the timing of any decision is very individual and personal.
There is not rush to move in eitherdirection "tommorrow" but perhaps with the new year you will decide to look in directions that begin to help you heal and make the best future for yourself and your kids.
I think dropping the rope is right where you need to be.
You've been emotionally bound to him for far too long.
Let go.
Yes.
My circumstances aren't like other people's, where they are already set up to be independent without having to take legal steps.
I'm going to have to take legal steps to be able to drop the rope. Not emotionally, but so that I don't have to take him into account when I do the things that dropping the rope makes possible.
I'm not going anywhere, but thank you all so much for the ways you've made it possible for me to get to this place.
This hurts but it also feels right. Like disinfecting a wound to prevent infection.
I'm not OK right this minute, but I will be.
Take a break, I'm not sure I follow any of of your sitch is different but that's not important, as long as you do.
Give yourself some time away from here. Enjoy the holidays with your kids.
My circumstances aren't like other people's, where they are already set up to be independent without having to take legal steps.
I'm going to have to take legal steps to be able to drop the rope.
Maybell, I'm right there with you financially. H makes about 5 times what I do, and there is no way I could ever just walk without something legal in place. You and I have to tread carefully here. But we can.
OK, now that makes sense.
Wasn't true in my situation so I didn't relate.
Labug, the sitch hasn't changed. I have. I woke up from that dream feeling very different.
Kids are with H, I'm taking a break to do nothing without guilt for a little bit, then off to do shopping & laundry and otherwise prepare for my week. And some time to work on purging my house.
It's been a rough morning and I'm very tired already. I will step away, give myself a break, and remember that I'm worth leisure.
Maybell,
I've been taking a bit of a break from posting...combo of lots of thinking and a very busy couple of weeks.
But I wanted to say I am thinking of you... and I can relate b/c I feel like I'm in a similar place. It's hard to truly let go while still having hope that things will work out. Maybe someday I can feel both. But right now I have let my H go in my mind. Doesn't mean I'm not sad, but I'm not trying to re attract HIM. I'm trying to be the best me I can be...for ME.
I think it takes a tremendous amount of courage to be where you are. I agree with labug... this time of year is highly charged and emotional under normal circumstances. Don't make any grand decisions.... just be for a while.
It will all be well. But you already know that.
(((Maybell)))
It's funny how dreams can affect your "real life" thinking. I've had dreams where H and I got back together and felt really hopeful about it after waking up... and then had dreams where I had met someone new and was really excited about that (and no interest in my H). If after a few days you still feel the same it may not be that dream influence anymore.
Gah!! D11 just told me H is buying my perfume as his gift to me for Christmas. What am I supposed to do with that????
Hmm... nothing?
What are you worried about? That he got you something and you didn't? Or what it "means"?
I think it means you are getting perfume for Christmas. Hopefully, it smells good. That's all it means:-)
^ Tehehe. I like that one
I didn't want him to get that for me. I chose it and bought it for myself the week he moved out. I had been wearing the same perfume for several years, one that made me feel fresh, clean, and pretty. When he moved out I chose the new one that made me feel sexier, mysterious, and different. It wasn't for him. It was for me. D11 fell in love with it and has been snuggling up against me breathing it in. I ran out a few weeks ago and I've been waiting for Christmas for the refill because I thought it would be nice to get it from her. It was a very personal purchase. I don't know if he appreciates that.
But I noticed last night while I was prepping vegetables for the week's meals that when my mind wanders it wanders to him and the sitch. So I'm restarting my thought-stopping techniques, and I'm making a list of things to do for me to concentrate on. Also I started reading articles about dropping the rope, and I'm going to get the Language of Letting Go that Labug mentioned earlier. I've also restarted the herbal supplements that I had been taking to help me through the summer that I'd let lapse because I thought I was stronger than I was. And I reached out to a new therapist. (a woman)
One of the tracks in my mind is that if he won't love me then nobody will. I think I need to put that on my list of ideas to explore -- why do I believe that? Because intellectually I don't think it's true. But it is definitely at the root of the fear that makes it hard for me to let go.
I lost track of the effort that letting go requires. It's not something that just happens. So I'm going to take charge of that effort the same way I would take charge of my behavior in a new relationship. Also I'm committing to going back to DR and making a plan for my behavior, not to win him back but so that I can retain (regain?) my dignity.
Sigh. One step forward, seven steps back. Onward.
One of the tracks in my mind is that if he won't love me then nobody will. I think I need to put that on my list of ideas to explore -- why do I believe that? Because intellectually I don't think it's true. But it is definitely at the root of the fear that makes it hard for me to let go.
Its definitely not true but I have the same fear (very strongly)
I also know that it was this fear that drove some of my codependent behaviour. Im getting a better understanding of what drives it in me and thats helping but for now my bigger concern is how to get past it.
One of the tracks in my mind is that if he won't love me then nobody will.
Maybell, I think many of us feel that way. I certainly did. I think part of it has to do with, if the person who is supposed to love me best and promised to stick with me doesn't love me anymore, how could anyone else? In my case, it was also years of being told I didn't look good enough, didn't keep house well enough. My mindset was, I am too flawed to love, and I'm lucky to have this one guy that does. If he stops, there's no one left.
You and I both know that's a crock, that we can have great futures with great guys who will love us deeply. But in my case I need to learn to love myself first, and I'm getting there.
Maybell,
It is difficult when you've shared so much with someone over the years to think you could ever love someone again AND have them love you too. Your ego is bruised and understandably so. It CAN happen. Have a little faith:-)
I had that fear when I married him.
I shall overcome!!
I had that fear when I married him.
I shall overcome!!
That's significant.
Put him aside, work on you.
((( )))
But let it go for a while.
Just to be clear, that doesn't mean I didn't love him then and that I don't now. I dated a LOT before I met him and also got myself out of a two-year moderately abusive relationship with a much older man. I chose my H on purpose. But that fear did set me up for a lot of unhealthy behaviors and choices during the marriage (and now). Got in contact with a potential IC today. That's much more complicated to schedule now that I'm working.
My MIL is sending me a Christmas gift and asked for my family's new addresses (parents and two brothers moved in the last year). I hope she doesn't try to call my parents.
I dated a LOT before I met him and also got myself out of a two-year moderately abusive relationship with a much older man. I chose my H on purpose. But that fear did set me up for a lot of unhealthy behaviors and choices during the marriage (and now).
Maybell, I relate to this one. My college bf and I had a pretty dysfunctional relationship, and then I moved here and met H pretty quickly. He was a breath of fresh air after college bf. And I overlooked some things I shouldn't have. And I continued to overlook them for 27 years.
We made the choices we did then, and who can tell us we were wrong? We have good memories and great kids. And we can decide from here what choices to make for our futures.
I just read Card's thread about the convo with his W about the porn. That was really interesting. I'm in his W's shoes almost exactly. My H is in Card's shoes. But Card sees the impact porn had on his M. I don't know that my H ever would. But I could be wrong.
I'm not saying this to fixate. I feel calmer than I did. I see this is a long journey and it has to play out. And maybe (likely?) not recover, because we both have to change and he seems not to be motivated. I'm just musing.
I missed some opportunities to validate my H on Saturday. He was complaining, lightly, that S6 woke him up by climbing into bed with him at 5:30 and that S6 had gotten sick. But I was annoyed he'd complain about that because I get up at 5:30 every morning now and S6 climbs into bed with me every night between 12:00 and 3:00. I didn't feel inclined to extend sympathy to a guy who has always, and continues, to get hours more sleep than me all the time. I guess that was score keeping.
This matters because even letting him go I have to be able to conduct SOME kind of co-parenting relationship with him and that won't work if I'm always resenting how lopsided things are. I have to be able to tolerate that.
Does that mean give him his sympathy when he's asking for it? And just swallowing his lack of concern for my circumstances?
He's going to be traveling internationally most of January (missing the boys' birthdays and an important Scouting event) so I have plenty of opportunity coming up to detach a little more and get my head on straight. Once I figure what direction straight is.
Maybell, stop reading MY mind.
The lopsided sleep issue has been huge for me and my M, too. Grr.
I had a real epiphany the other night. I get it now. If you are truly moving forward, if you are truly detached, then yes-- you can be neighborly and offer some empathy (in a limited way), and not expect the same from him.
So, what can you expect from him? A respectful co-parenting relationship. He gets to live his life, and you get to live yours--- with no score-keeping.
You get to decide how much sympathy you can offer.
Imagine a co-worker--- you know, the kind of person who likes to complain. You listen, and nod with understanding, you say, "Man, that [censored]. I'm sorry to hear it." Then, you turn around and go about your happy day. You don't unload your problems on that person, and you don't let their stuff impact your life. You are kind and friendly. And you are detached.
That's what I'm working on, anyways...
Very nice. Thanks for presenting the target so neatly.
H asked again via email about dinner on Christmas eve. I need to answer him.
On my own I would say no. I feel like he just wants the pleasure of family time on the holiday and none of the obligation that comes with a family (me) the rest of the year while he lives his fancy bachelor life. But on the way to school this morning S8 said "isn't it sad to celebrate a holiday with a family member missing?" (Though I'm sure H had no issue with that on Thanksgiving).
H will be with us Christmas morning and he has them that weekend.
Any thoughts how I should handle this?
The lopsided sleep issue has been huge for me and my M, too. Grr.
My H once told someone, in front of me, that all our children slept through the night as infants. Ummmmmm.....no, H....YOU slept through the night. None of our kids or I did.
H asked again via email about dinner on Christmas eve. I need to answer him.
Any thoughts how I should handle this?
Handle it with what makes you comfortable. In my case, it's clear-cut what my kids want (all five of us together), and I'm going to accommodate them. That means spending both Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with H. And I don't mind. If I couldn't stand being around him, the answer would be different.
If your kids don't care, or if you really can't tolerate him, then do what you already have planned and decline Christmas Eve. What do YOU want, Maybell?
H is spending most of Christmas Eve with the kids because I have to work. I have fun plans for that evening that involve my kids' dear friends and I think I'm going to keep them (H is not really welcome in their house, though he would be if we reconciled). Kids get plenty of Christmas time with their dad either way so I'm going to pass on dinner.
It took me all day to think this through. This is why I am not as detached as I ought to be. I'm not sufficiently decisive.
RPP, it's not that I can't stand him, but I think I'm going to hit my limit just on Christmas Day. I'm just not so good that I can spend that many hours with him and come out ok. I'll show my changes on Christmas morning. I'm sorry for my kids but I didn't create here conditions.
I've been really following Card's porn conversation. When D11 was newborn I caught him on it in the middle of the day when he was supposed to be job hunting and we had a long conversation about the things that weren't working in our sex life. We made some mutual promises to one another. His included a promise not to go back to it. After BD I asked him if he'd ever kept that promise even for a short time and he said no, and that it was unreasonable of me to expect that any guy would. So he's been lying to me about that for 11 years.
I know, let go, let go, let go. I'm trying. But then all these ideas come up. And I don't know what to do with them besides come here.
The new IC may be a dud. She doesn't take credit card and spent a ton of time on the phone this morning talking about insurance. I have an HSA card. Square & Paypal devices are free except the fees which is less than 1% of the charge. There ought to be no conversation about this considering she accepts my plan and isn't my deductible my business if I have a card to pay her with?
Or I'm not decisive because I'm not as detached as I ought to be. Can't wait till the holidays are over.
I've been really following Card's porn conversation. When D11 was newborn I caught him on it in the middle of the day when he was supposed to be job hunting and we had a long conversation about the things that weren't working in our sex life. We made some mutual promises to one another. His included a promise not to go back to it. After BD I asked him if he'd ever kept that promise even for a short time and he said no, and that it was unreasonable of me to expect that any guy would. So he's been lying to me about that for 11 years.
I hope it has been enlightening. I will say that it is fairly easy to hide and lie about. And it is also very easy to justify to ourselves (every guy does it, it's not harming anyone, it's way better than having an affair so it's actually a good thing, etc). From a recovering user, that is all crap. And so is the "it's unreasonable to ask any man not to" idea. I have been done with it for four months now and I feel the healthiest sexually I ever have in my adult life. I have no crazy urges anymore, I am craving affection and intimacy, not just physical pleasure like I did for 10 years. And that is with no one even in my house to hide it from. Just don't buy those ideas for a second.
But keep in mind that if he would change and truly stop, it has to start within himself. I have learned many new things about male/human sexuality, new strategies, new resources. All of that has been extremely helpful. But the primary driving factor for my change is the knowledge that porn helped destroy my marriage, and getting rid of porn forever is a must if I'm ever going to reconcile with WAW. The obvious difference between me and your H is that I want my M right now. So don't worry about this bridge until you get there.
I hear you about the holidays. I normally love them, Im sure I'll love them again in the future, but this year...bleh. Moving out of my house and into mom's basement the week before christmas isn't helping
I told him I had plans for Christmas Eve that I preferred to keep.
Five hours later (unusual amount of delay for him), after I'd gone to bed, he sent me an email that said "Well at least you could tell me what the kids will be doing Christmas Eve... I think that's a reasonable thing to say. No need to be mysterious about it."
I'm thinking of saying "We will be at XXXX. I'm sorry you're annoyed. I have been significantly less mysterious than you."
But I don't need to be provocative. Would it be better just to say we'll be at XXXX?
I am having a hard time finding a place of meh with him. I'd like to get to meh. I'm tired of this dance.
Yep, better to go with "We'll be at XXXX". Don't get pulled in. He's pushing buttons.
Yeap, go with be at x, then think meh.....
Vital information only.
Yep, better to go with "We'll be at XXXX". Don't get pulled in. He's pushing buttons.
Yep, this.
Write the snarky reply (helpful hint--keep the To: field blank until you are ready to hit send, so no awkward mistakes!).
Then, delete all the snarky stuff with a "meh.", add his name to the To: field, and hit send.
I find it helps me to just get it out. And now I feel like I have to do that less and less.
Wrote the recommended email.
Got HUGE spew back and a demand to keep D11 on Christmas Eve and to have the boys come play video games at his place on Christmas day.
Answered that he got Thanksgiving, I get Christmas, and asked him to NOT expect to have the kids during my time. He gets them during the day Christmas Eve and I said he could give them their game then if he wanted.
Also said I'd be happy to discuss this evening when he drops the kids off if he'd prefer.
I'm shaking. This has never happened before.
Wrote the recommended email.
Got HUGE spew back
Wow, Maybell. Sorry. Good for you for standing up for yourself, though.
Put on your spew jacket amiright?
That suxx. Sorry. (((Maybell)))
Validate. "I know how hard it is to miss the kids on holidays. It seems like there was a misunderstanding about how we would divide the kids time over christmas?
Something like that? I'm not so good at validating, so don't take my word for it.
I just said I was sorry the first conversation wasn't more successful, that is found it difficult to focus with the kids interrupting. He had also criticized my Christmas preparations so I said that I was doing the best I could considering I was transitioning into being a full-time single working mom.
Poor guy, can't have Thanksgiving AND Christmas.
He had also criticized my Christmas preparations
Grrrrr.....
My H told me the other day that he had always done all the Christmas shopping. I almost bit my tongue off.
Wow, that's uncomfortable.
I say you need to do a little more validating. It seems to be the DB thing to do every time the WAS complains about something. Validating is not agreeing. So for the first email, you could have written "I can see why you think I'm trying to be mysterious. I was distracted by the kids and replied quickly." Better: look at the cheat sheet in validation for a good formula. A week ago, you were wondering what you can do to progress towards reconciliation and learning to validate seems a good homework. Your reflexes are not there, it seems.
Also, "I've been significantly less mysterious than you"?? Score keeping much?
And by the way, "I'm sorry you are X" is one of the most annoying non-apology I know. I take it as a provocation: "You're such a whiny baby and your feelings are not valid." Then again, English is not my native language.
Well, I must have done an adequate job of validating because he just apologized.
I realize that's an area of improvement for me. I didn't say "I'm less mysterious than you." Just wanted to.
I responded quickly because he'd threatened to involve D11.
At some point I had to ask myself the question, "Can I be the spouse I expect my H to be?"
Resentment is my barometer.
Actually I have to check in with myself often.
If I can't fix me, I'm lost.
That is an outstanding point. Thank you.
Great self-question, labug. Also, congrats on one year anniversary of R!
At some point I had to ask myself the question, "Can I be the spouse I expect my H to be?"
Resentment is my barometer.
Actually I have to check in with myself often.
If I can't fix me, I'm lost.
I think this is a core principle of DB, no? One person's changes can change the dynamic.
Maybell-- I've experienced something similar re: apologies... one of my M issues was my H's inability to apologize in a way I found satisfactory. Since I've been DBing, I've changed my responses to him. In return...I've gotten more unsolicited and sincere apologies. And less defensiveness from him. Coincidence? I think not.
Since I've been DBing, I've changed my responses to him. In return...I've gotten more unsolicited and sincere apologies. And less defensiveness from him. Coincidence? I think not.
This is a fabulous observation and an astounding change to make. I certainly didn't get this until a year or two into my own changes. That's incredibly insightful, Claire.
For me personally, I lived with a perfectionist (my mom). She grew up with an even bigger perfectionist. Everything was couched under the umbrella of "what would people think" if anything was less than perfect. For my mom, it created an extremely hostile inner voice that berated her for doing anything less than perfectly. And she didn't get counseling, so that lovely dynamic was passed along to me and my 2 siblings. Ironically, we've all had our issues because of it. I got a developmentally disabled kiddo at the age of 35 and it was the beginning of accepting a less than perfect life. I just got much better at it with my marital troubles.
I think those of us who grew up in critical households are often the ones who have to unlearn it with others. For all the criticism we have with others, the inner voice is the suicidal voice inside of us. It eats away at our self esteem and our ability to love others as they are and not who we want them to be. And it definitely affects our ability to be the spouse we expect our spouses want US to be. This is definitely a worthwhile path.
A year or so after my D, I flew out to California to stay with friends and finally work through my sadness. (My XH and I met in the Bay Area and got married there. Most of my memories of living there are good and all the good ones were about falling in love with him.) Anyway, I stayed with one of his best friends and his now wife. After I left, XH and his friend had a long conversation, which friend told me about. My XH told him, "She became the wife I always dreamed she'd be." Friend asked him, "What does that mean to you?" He answered, "I'm really sad. Because I truly doubt I could be the man she wants in return, and it's not fair to ask her to accept that going forward."
How freaking sad is that? But at that point, it really didn't matter. I had decided I wanted to be a different person, and that was enough for me. It still is.
But we all have our long, winding ways to get to this point. Keep going, because it's worthwhile! As someone wise here once said to me, "the only way out is through".
Hugs to all-
Betsey
Oh, and Maybell?
I realize that's an area of improvement for me. I didn't say "I'm less mysterious than you." Just wanted to.
LOL, this was totally me too. I was the queen of witty sarcasm. And my family and friends despised my editorial comments. Somewhere along the line, someone told me to consider visualizing my responses and then the delete key (I'm a really visual person). I was advised to say what needed to be said and then delete the editorials. If it's unkind or leaves anything open to unkind interpretation, I do my level best to keep that commentary silent. If the editorial is uplifting, then I can say it. End of story. It's an important piece about being authentic and human. Our spouses need humility from us, not perfection.
Good edit job!
Betsey
Betsey, I appreciate your stopping by. I'll circle back to that later.
On the advice of my lawyer when I started working I opened my own bank account in a new bank. H knows I'm working of course, and he just emailed me asking if I had opened a new account. He said he wasn't being mean or snarky but the finances are shared and we should both be transparent with one another.
I emailed him back with my salary (small) and confirmed I have my own account. I said if he has anything more to discuss about that I'd prefer we do it in person.
It might be worth adding that in a legal separation he will be parting with a he!! Of a lot of money. Which he probably doesn't appreciate.
I'm scared he'll pull the rug out from under me. He's not the guy I thought he was at the moment. Thoughts?
I'm wondering if maybe he's trying to control or punish me for Christmas, and for doing a good job with my cheerful detachment at Scouts last night?
Maybell, when you say you are scared he'll pull the rug out from under you, what do you mean exactly? Financially?
A few days ago, you said you would file after the New Year. Is that still the direction you are leaning? If so, I would tell your H (if he brings it up again), that you opened the account on the advice of counsel and that you will not discuss until after the holidays.
I'm not leaning toward filing at the moment. But I take seriously the idea that a legal arrangement would make things easier. Excluding sale of the house.
Yes, I'm worried he'll do something financial. I recently discovered that I do have some resources of my own, and if he does something really awful I'll call his dad, who I've kept out of things. But I am anxious.
So - do you see a downside to a legal separation?
Just dealing with the house.
Well - I think I've said this here before - but given the amount of anxiety this seems to cause you from time to time, I would seriously consider it.
I know you've said your H has been ok with you about money.....but I dunno....he wants to be separated then he should really deal with all the ramifications of being separated and more importantly, you should get what benefits there are to being separated, and right now it seem like you don't.
Sorry - I always feel like I am a little hard nosed about this aspect of things.
I understand, Maybell. It seems we have the same LRT when it comes to money (calling the in-laws).
Because of seventeen years, three children, four states, and a vow before God.
Also because I married him on purpose.
But I may be better off on my own.
I need the house to wait till summer just to make life easier.
Does a legal separation force the sale of the house, or can some middle ground be reached on that one?
Because of seventeen years, three children, four states, and a vow before God.
Also because I married him on purpose.
But I may be better off on my own.
I get all that and I'm not challenging you, but I am curious. A S agreement isn't a D. It gives you the space you need while not having to worry about the business side of marriage. I think everyone should have one from the get-go. I didn't and I probably would have had to provide support to my H. (which he wouldn't have taken.
In my state a legal S turns into a D when that decision is made.
Bug,
That is also true here. I have to say from personal experience that the S agreement was instrumental in helping take some of the fear based emotions out of my interactions with my XH. We didn't file for legal S, as it's not necessary in my state. But we used a mediator who helped us set up a Memorandum of Understanding that he knew would be honored by the courts if we pulled the trigger.
I was definitely a person whose fear was so crippling that I'd mentally play chess to make sure that I didn't go without. My XH makes good money and since we both grew up without much, he's very, very frugal. I'm frugal, but not to the point where I'd screw people to save a buck. At that point in time, I'd have initiated something hostile that he would punish me for financially. Ugh.
So the MOU was our rules of engagement. We used it to set up parenting time, got the child support order in place and had clear rules of how we had to operate, although our pool of money was definitely considered a marital asset. I know it gave me the peace of mind I desperately needed to work on my fears and take care of the girls and figure out my crap.
Put me down as a fan of establishing guidelines that benefit everyone... which means "do no harm" or at least minimize it. Especially where the kids are concerned.
The pluses: when we set up the MOU, my XH steadfastly argued about removing any requirement of him to pay for our D20's college. He was a real a*hole about it. (I have NO idea why.) I think I surprised him by saying, "Okay, whatever. I feel a college education is important so if this is my responsibility, take it off the table for discussion." Fast forward 2 years, when we converted it to a D. He asked, "Why does this thing say that Betsey is on the hook for D20's education?" The mediator and I remained completely silent. He then said, "Well, we need to make that a shared responsibility. I don't know why we wrote it that way."
Time actually worked in my favor. I think 2 years of peaceful interactions softened his heart and he totally stepped up to make sure that things were good for the girls. Every now and then, miracles do happen.
Maybell, legal S is not an option in my state. Either you are M or you are not. However, when a D is filed in my county, an injunction goes into immediate effect that prohibits substantial changes to the financial situation. That means H cannot clean out the bank accounts and refuse to pay the light bill on the house. IF I file. Until then, I'm trusting him to be a good guy. I know your state is different, but.....it boils down to, do you trust him to be a good guy? If you have real doubts, then consider filing the S. You don't have legal protection with out a legal document.
I understand the years and the kids and the vows. I really do. But be careful, K?
In my state, there's technically no legal separation. There's limited divorce and absolute divorce. The settlement you arrive at for the limited divorce is meant to be rolled into the absolute divorce, which only deals with the actual marriage.
Based on the draft legal separation my attorney put together last summer (which was VERY draft, and didn't have ANYTHING filled in), I think I can ask for everything to be divided (including the retirement accounts) now, and leave the house to be dealt with as part of the absolute divorce. I also think my attorney wasn't nearly as aggressive as she could have been with the settlement and since my H makes so much more than I ever will I think it's important not to leave those things on the table AT THIS POINT just for the sake of being nice or hoping he'll think better of me if I'm gentle with my settlement requests.
He won't. I think raliced said he needed to feel the truth of what separation and divorce actually are like, and that has absolutely been the consensus of my friends and family IRL. So far, it's just been him living in his sweet little place downtown, parenting when it's convenient, relying on me to make financial decisions that will not harm the two of us jointly. What does he care about my worries? He's had all the control. But I matter too.
BTW, Labug, when you asked why the ambivalence, I thought you meant about legal separation. But I think I've moved closer to needing that security. So I'm less ambivalent now. Plus, I was terrified at the idea of handling the responsibility before. Now, I feel excited at the possibility. So a LOT has changed for me in the last eight months.
I think also the terminology of limited vs. absolute divorce freaked me out for a long, long time, and I feared getting lawyers involved because I was sure that would be the death knell of the whole marriage. Well, most likely the marriage will not resuscitate. Why fear it? I'm already dead. I'd might as well pick out my own resting place.
(you all know that's an extended metaphor, right? I think having more control over my financial future will be a HUGE weight off my shoulders.)
I didn't write about it, but I had an interaction with H last night at Scouts that was probably the exact sort of interaction MWD had in mind when she wrote DR. I saw him, he apologized about the Christmas tantrum, I said I was sorry too, we moved on and had a friendly interaction. Then I left him and dealt with some business that amounted to me kind of "working the room" full of all these dads, with lots of smiles and confidence -- but it really was stuff I was doing for S6. We walked out together, I took the kids and left.
Then this afternoon the thing about the bank and my paycheck.
Between standing up for myself for Christmas and the confident interaction last night, I kind of turned a bit of a corner. I don't know how long it will last, but I feel OK. I feel better than my old self. So the fear of legal separation/limited divorce is a LOT less than the fear of being at the mercy of someone I've been relying on to be a good guy.
I asked one of my close friends who's a really good lawyer to pass on a contact she recommended to me. I think January will be the start of very good things for this lady. I'm going to have a Very Merry Christmas and a WONDERFUL New Year.
Awesome news, Maybell. I'm having a rough time and I was checking your thread hoping to see something pick me up. Mission accomplished!
How is the job?