Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: hjoseph Shocked by W - 11/25/14 07:36 PM
I have been married for four years. We have two sons. W asked for divorce.

I recently switched from active duty Marine officer to the reserves so I can be closer to my W because I sensed something was wrong. I did not know yet what it was. When I moved back home, my W was not the same and she always went out with her best friend. If she did come home, it would be just to clean up and go to work. I suspected an affair but when I confronted her, she would deny it.

When W finally broke down and told me what was wrong, she called me a liar. She was unhappy with the fact, I lie about small things. It made her feel I could lie about bigger things. And she did not like that I went to her mother for advice. She asked me for a divorce. I don't mean to lie. I was afraid of being imperfect in her eyes. I promised to change but her mind was made up.

The lease on our apartment was up. She informed me that I would not be moving in with her in her new apartment, so I moved in with my sisters. For 3 months, I only spoke to her when It came to the children. I avoided her. And if I did, it would be to push her towards the divorce. I was angry and confused. I didn't mean it. However,She has yet to file or do anything about it.

I am still very active in our children lives. She commends me on being on a good father. I recently made a push to reconcile with her but I feel like I pushed even father away. Any conversation about us is immediately met with hostility as if she is still hurt. she is afraid of being close to me because she feels I might try to push for reconciliation or talk about it. She doesn't really speak to me in public or say hi or bye to me. I do not know what to think about her current state of mind.

I really LOVE my W. I would anything for her. I made some changes for me to better myself. I am hoping she can see that and want to talk about us. She has already informed me this is not how she wants to raise our children with alternate weeks. Hoping she makes the leap to forgiving me.

any advice on what to do?
Posted By: Hrdtims Re: Shocked by W - 11/26/14 02:40 PM
Yea, I am in a similar situation. D has not been brought up yet but S has.
-Stay active with your children (they give me strength)
-Don't focus on your W (she has to decide)
-Make your interactions with her positive (do not look needy)
-Get out, have fun, do somthing that you have been holding off on
-Fix your issues with "lies" and whatever that implies (hey man we all have issues that need to be fixed - get help)
-Stay strong, you need to be a good father and that means keeping relations strong with your wife and if that does not work out then building a stronger relationship with your next partner.
-Good luck
Posted By: Little Re: Shocked by W - 11/26/14 02:44 PM
Welcome to the boards, you'll get great help here. smile
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/01/14 07:52 PM
Thank You.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/02/14 06:39 PM
I've just read Sandi's 37 rules. I have a question. What if you had broken all those rules during the separation? I've been separated for 6 months now. Would it still help to implement them now?
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Shocked by W - 12/02/14 06:48 PM
Originally Posted By: hjoseph
I've just read Sandi's 37 rules. I have a question. What if you had broken all those rules during the separation? I've been separated for 6 months now. Would it still help to implement them now?


Hjoseph, sorry you are here. Keep posting, tell us more of your story.

Have you read DB or DR? These are critical.

As far as the rules go, if what you have been doing so far hasn't worked, then it can't hurt to try the rules, right?
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/02/14 08:33 PM
Hi rppfl,
you are correct. it wouldn't hurt to try something different. When my W first approached me about S, I didn't quite understand it. So, I pushed back. I didn't understand that all she needed was space. It took four months for me to finally get it and I had to move out to clear my head to gain that understanding. But, I believe when I was pushing back. I actually pushed her to point where she is now. She asked for D. However, since the day she asked, she has not done anything to show she is serious about it. no paperwork, no talks of separation of assets or talks about the custody of our son. Its been 7 months. Leads me to believe that asking for D was a way for her to get space and not have to talk to me about our M.I still spend a lot of time with my son and step son. What do you think?

She still has the pictures of our wedding of Facebook. She has not completely cut me off from her life yet. I maybe clinging to those simple signs as a signal for there is still hope, but I don't have anything else to cling onto at the moment. We only talk about the kids. Conversations about M are met with anger, where she iterates that there is no chance of R. I ignore her and choose not to believe her. Because, she sounds as if she is still hurting and not ready to talk. I can't tell if I have a chance at R but I don't want my M to end. I understand uncertainty is part of the process.But If I only knew if she still loves me , I would feel so much better. It would give me something to work out of instead of me always thinking I lost my W and she doesn't love me anymore. I came here to find out what should I do. She knows I love her. Her friends and family were on my side when this all first started. It made things worst because she accused of turning her family against her because I went to them for advice. But, I was not home but on deployment for 1 1/2 years. I didn't know what was going on with her. So, I went to the people who were around her when I was gone to ask what happened. She has said there was no OM and I take with suspicion but I have no proof. Right now, I am in a dark place and losing hope by the day. I believe my issue with my W can be worked out. I see it as a miniscule issue but I understand that its about how she feels about it. I have made some changes to my life for me that I know she would like but I don't think she cares right now. She has been living the single life for a long time. She might be attracted to not having a H right now. I am so confused.

Our issue: I didn't know how to handle certain trauma, I developed a dissociative identity disorder, so I would say things she considered lies that I thought were truths. She didn't like that. I lost her trust. Went to counseling. Got a handle on my problem. W still does not want to talk.

Me: 28 W:24
Kids: Step son 5, son 2
Married 3 years together 4
Wants separation : 4/24/2014
Talked about D: 5/1/2014
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Shocked by W - 12/03/14 03:51 PM
hjoseph, you came here to find out what to do. Here's what you do: focus on you. Quit chasing her, quit trying to talk to her about the M, quit trying to convince her you've changed. Quit clinging. Let her go work out her own issues. Focus on yours.

You have listed some things you needed to work on, and it seems you have a good start on addressing them. Keep it up. Are there other things you need to work on? What would your W say that the issues in the M were?

What are you doing to get out and get a life (GAL)? Read DB and DR. Read them again.

You have seen that pushing doesn't work. It's time to try a different way. Give her the space she wants. Focus on you.
Posted By: Hrdtims Re: Shocked by W - 12/04/14 03:08 PM
Give her space friend, all the space she needs...it is the only thing that will help you at this point. I am in the same situation...almost exactly.

Best of luck, you will get through.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/04/14 08:24 PM
Thank you for the advice rppfl and Hrdtims. I will read DB and DR.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/04/14 09:40 PM
I have been the boards for a while before my post. I started applying what I learned two weeks ago. Since then, I have seen some changes on how W and I interact. It's a bit more formal. We are considerate of each other's different lives. We don't talk about anything unless it involves the kids. I don't initiate any conversation. I don't call or text. She calls and texts and mostly to ask if I can pick up the kids (step son and son) on her week. Step son used to go with his father since the separation but now he has been spending a lot of time with me instead. She has told she does that on purpose because she considers me a better father to him. I don't know if being available to her like that makes me a doormat, but she knows I do enjoy being with the kids and that I would not turn down an opportunity to be with them. I don't really check up on her or asks questions. I am an auditor, so I travel a bit and stay busy. It makes it easier.

To be honest, I don't know if there will be a chance of R. I had lost myself in this M. I gave her everything inch of me. I can understand how that can be unattractive to a woman. Satisfying her every desire at a drop of hat. Kind of like a puppy. Initially, it was my confidence that attracted her. I just have to get back to that. All I ever wished for her is happiness. I just have to realize that may not be with me.

We have yet to talk about our M or D. Its been 7 months and nothing so far about D. But,I will let her bring those up. Hope the space I give her is not for someone else to step in and take my place, but I am prepared for that. Loving someone is giving them the space to grow. She has some growing up to do. I believe in family. D is never an option for me. Thanks for letting me vent on here. I feel better.

Going forward: I am hoping she would want to talk soon. No matter what the decision is. R or D. I am hoping she will not want to stay legally married forever while we continually living separately. We have never spoken about the truth about us yet. well, at least, like adults. I feel that kind of closure will be necessary.

Posted By: TLEE86 Re: Shocked by W - 12/05/14 12:35 AM
hjoseph, sorry your in this situation. New to these boards myself but just wanted to let you know someones listening. Pretty similar situation myself, though we survived the deployment (1 year) but apparently not Ranger School. Gone 3 months and come home and BD…kinda like you, no warning. Her mind was made up before i even got home. Sometimes…wives just..snap when their husbands are gone. When we're gone on deployment/schools, wives have quite a bit of time to think, and think themselves into a crappy place..my wifes own words. But nothing we can do to change their thoughts.

Keep your head up, follow the advice from the vets here, and like you already are noticing, giving her a little space and not pushing seems to make her come to you more. Just like time (when we were gone) gave them the opportunity to think negatively about everything that we ever did wrong, time is the only thing to make her start thinking positively, and the only way we can do that is by working on ourselves and continue to make consistent changes and hope they notice…still learning myself. best of luck.
Posted By: Hrdtims Re: Shocked by W - 12/05/14 12:42 PM
Yea, well I can't seem to follow it. Last night we had some beer (again), started to become intimate (again), she stopped it and then talked about the relationship (again) stating this will be our last christmas together with the kids.

She does not seem to understand the effect of D on the kids, family, and future.

It is hard when they reach out to us. I will try to not touch her and follow the 37 rules and not talk about the relationship and future. Try to only be her friend. I think she will come around.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/05/14 01:42 PM
Thanks TLLE86.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/05/14 02:44 PM
Rule # 10: Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc.

In the world of social media that we live in now, its kind of hard not to stumble onto something your spouse puts out there for the world to see. Checking FB as usual, I noticed the W posted three new statuses. First post, she praised her mother for every sacrifice she has made for her and called her a role model. She used one of our wedding pictures with her and her mother in it. Thought: Why our wedding picture? She has been denying our M for so long. Second post, its an image stating: "Love is not about sex, going out on fancy dates, or showing off. It's about being with a person who makes you happy in a way nobody else can." Thought: Is she trying to say I didn't make her happy and maybe she wants to find the one who will? Third post is an article and the reasons why you should marry the complicated girl. The article relates to everything I've always told her why I married her.

I really try not to think too much of it. I see them as bait. Maybe she knows I will see them and hoping to get a reaction out of me. But I can't help to think this might be a cry out for something? Of course, I will wait for her to engage and I don't want to try to read her or figure out what kind of mood she is in. But, it goes against what I really want to do and just ask her. It's a constant struggle between my heart and my mind. I know I am prepared to lose her if that is what she really wants, but I am also prepared to come back home if there was a chance. I don't want to miss my chance. I know waiting for some kind signal is not part of the plan to R and I really want her to come talk to me. Show me that you really us, our M and our family. She has to be deliberate and not secretive.

I don't know which way the W is leaning. She can never hold any feelings inside of her. Hoping the recent outburst of emotion on social media is her working her feelings out. Hopefully in my direction.
Posted By: SunnyB Re: Shocked by W - 12/05/14 02:56 PM
hjoseph, that's a lot of speculation about your W. What are you doing for you? You said you lost yourself in the M. I totally get that. What are you doing to find yourself? Do you have any GAL activities?
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/05/14 03:59 PM
rppfl, I went to the activities I used to do before I got M. I am a fitness fanatic. I am an active member of my local track club. I run races around my area. I am into crossfit as well. I volunteered as TA at the local university as away to get back into grad school. I love my job, so I am on my way to earn more certifications. Every free time I have left, I spend with the kids. I still do the live shows and concerts when they are in town, but I don't really do the night life scene. Keeps me out of trouble. I do the stuff I enjoy doing. working out, reading and pursuing higher education. I still have some work to do. But, I am feel like my better self. I have not been this mentally and physically fit for a long time. I am not 100% yet. However, the void inside of me is widening everyday. If we didn't have a S we shared, the separation would be a lot easier to handle. I would just accept the fact she does not want me and move on in due time. The fact that our sons asks me when am I coming home and tells me I want you to come home or says I want to live with you makes it harder. I see the pain in them. The oldest cries at night. Its sad but its my reality now.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/05/14 04:24 PM
Hrdtims, It is very hard. It is as if they give this sign of hope and we ,like creatures of habit, fall right for the bait.
Posted By: Hrdtims Re: Shocked by W - 12/05/14 09:05 PM
Yea man, Hard Times....I don't think I can change her mind. Only after she leaves may she relize.

But I re-read the 37 rules..#.33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/08/14 02:46 PM
So, I come back from my trip from Orlando. I arrive at grandma's house to pick up the kids and W is there. She opens the door for me, a first. As I walk through the door, the kids yell "Daddy".I look over towards the couch and W is looking at me with the biggest smile and that look as if she is happy to see me. She knows I love that look. Grandma asks me to help move her exercise machine into her room and put it up for her, W immediately says "Mom! he just came back from a trip and he is tired, Can he do it for you tomorrow?" I concur that I was tired and agreed to tomorrow. W gets up and goes to grab more clothes for the kids for me, she asks me to come with her She didn't say anything but it seemed she wanted to ask me something but the kids interrupted. Soon after, I said my goodbyes and left with the kids. I wanted to call her later that evening, but didn't. Had to remember the rules.

Again, I look for the small things because they come from your subconscious mind and mean the most. She was happy to see me and looking for out for me. When just a few weeks ago, she would not show any concern for me. I maybe reading too much into it.
Posted By: Hrdtims Re: Shocked by W - 12/08/14 08:16 PM
Small things are important, build on them. I hope that it is begining to turn around for you.

I seem to be moving the other way. We went and watched a game with some friends last night and I got a picture of the two of us that I posted on facebook and tagged her. She immediatly got mad. I removed it. I told her that I did not know why she didn't want it, as it was a good picture. [censored], broke the "give them space rule" again.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/09/14 01:54 PM
My step son has been asking a lot of questions about the separation. I answer without crossing the line of what an adult should tell a child. One topic he sought interest in was the significance of the wedding ring. I explained to him that when adults get married, they wear a wedding ring as a representation of that union. He asked why I had his mother's ring and why is she not wearing it if we are still married. I answered : "She needs to put it on because we are still married. But, I have it now for safekeeping" I had the W's ring (I kept it when we separated) cleaned per the agreement with the Jeweler and picked it up. It was in my room and my Step son saw it. He wanted to watch a movie and I said no. He started to cry so, he asked to speak with his mom. I called her. He immediately said the her: "Mom? Daddy said you need to put your ring back on." I believe he said to kind of get back at me for not letting watch a movie. I attempted to grab the phone from him and in the struggle he accidently hung up on her. I immediately called her back and explained to her that he said to get back at me. She was with her friends and she switched to speaker mode and asked him to repeat what he said. He didn't repeat it but I heard the laughter in the background.

Its not what I said exactly, but I understand how he arrived at that. However, I felt embarrassed and I don't know why. I have been following sandi's rule and I feel like that threw it all out.

Did I handle it well?
Posted By: Little Re: Shocked by W - 12/09/14 02:04 PM
You did well with the explanation of what a wedding ring means, but you should have turned it on your W from there, because it's not up to you. IE: "That's a good question and I don't know the answer. You'll need to ask mommy why she's not wearing her ring."

You saying, "she needs to put it back on" is a controlling statement.

Also, now that I think about it, don't get into power struggles with a kid, IE: "he was trying to get back at me". You are an adult. You need to be authoritative and not get into little tit-for-tats with him.
Posted By: Hrdtims Re: Shocked by W - 12/09/14 02:17 PM
Yes, my wife also took off her rings for a period of time. I asked her to put bak on which she did then took off agin, my oldest son saw her without them and asked, and she hasn't taken them off again. We have 3 kids together. She does not admitt but I strongly suspect that she is having a EA with OM. I think she is waiting for the hollidays to be over until she makes changes. I do not know what they will be. we still sleep in the same bed and hold each other (75% initiated by me 25% by her) at night/morning and embrace before leaving for work. Nothing I have tried has worked so far with her (180, fixed myself, GAL, detached)I do not know what to do. I have been very patient (since July) She seems to have shut the door. I have little hope.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/09/14 02:26 PM
Facebook is kind of a weird thing. They don't want to unfriend you and you don't. it kind of opens the door to each other's life. And if they are the kind who posts their lives on FB, it lets you peak into it. I would stop tagging her in pictures. She or someone else has the option to do so if she or they want to. For me, My W's sister tags my W on my pictures and I stopped peaking on her page. Keeps me detached.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 12/09/14 02:34 PM
Seeing what you said made me realize that I would not usually get into a power struggle with him. I have been in his since he was 6 months old. If my W and I would to get a D, I am still trying to figure out how my relationship with him will be effected if that happens. I want to be in his life. I consider him my son. I am worried. However, I shouldn't let it change on how I discipline him. Kind of open my eyes to what was happening. Thanks.
Posted By: Hrdtims Re: Shocked by W - 12/09/14 04:08 PM
Tough for me to detach with her in the same house and spending time with her is fun (she still says we are good friends). I have been trying but without any reason for her to leave (she simply said that she does not feel passion for me anymore) I have hope that she will reclaim it. I will stop visiting her FB.
Stay close to your son, he needs you now more than ever.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/09/15 02:24 PM

Good Morning! I need some feedback.
Late last night, I receive a text from the wife asking when will I be ready to finalize everything?

Me: I have the forms and they are filled out. I did not pay to file them, yet. (I did not intend for her to know that or to even file. but , it was late and I was tired. I filled them out just in case she had left me no other choice. i.e. she is in a serious relationship with someone else and its public knowledge)

Her: Okay. Also, my mom will be busy tomorrow and I have to go to work in the morning. Can you watch the boys?

Me: I leave for Orlando this weekend. I have a site visit.

Her: Ok Thanks

Me: Hey! I know it took a lot of courage to make this decision and I am proud of you for it. And, I wont fight you on it because I understand why you want it and why you had to make a tough decision. Whenever you are ready, I am. Just let me know when and what you need.

Her: Okay. Well, I have my part over next week.

Me: So, you will be the petitioner?

Her: it doesn't matter.

Me: ok. just keep me informed on what you do when you are done. Just call me when you have to serve me.

Her: I thought you said you already filled out the paper work.

Me. I have, but I would prefer if you were to do it because its something that you want.

Nothing after that. Did I handle it well? I was kind of emotional about it.

My thought is that she doesn't need my consent or to notify me to file for divorce. Why would she ask me? She knows its not what I want and I don't believe in it.
Posted By: Nettles Re: Shocked by W - 01/09/15 05:43 PM
HJ, not too bad. Letting the conversation end after W's "Ok Thanks" might have been the play. You answered the question and it isn't real clear what your next move is.

But you didn't and that's ok, so

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

Me: Hey! I know it took a lot of courage to make this decision and I am proud of you for it.


The "Hey" is to keep the convo going. That should have been a sign to stop it. And now isn't the time for the courage stuff. You haven't been posting a lot lately, but from the content of this exchange, W most likely doesn't care that you think this. If things start to mend, there may be a place and time for it, but not now.

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

And, I wont fight you on it because I understand why you want it and why you had to make a tough decision.


This isn't drawing her in. And be careful. W may think this means you won't fight her on the terms of the D. I hope that isn't what you meant.

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

Whenever you are ready, I am. Just let me know when and what you need.


So you are ready for the D?

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

My thought is that she doesn't need my consent or to notify me to file for divorce. Why would she ask me? She knows its not what I want and I don't believe in it.


There are several strange comments by W in here, but you don't need to waste time and energy on interpretting them. Instead of doing that, read or re-read DR/DB, use what is in those, and if you want feedback here, post often.

Thanks for your service to our country HJ. You are the few, the proud. We are all rooting for you here.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/09/15 06:03 PM
Nettles,
I haven't been posting because I really have been focusing on GAL and myself. To answer your questions, I did not mean I wouldn't fight for her. I was trying to convey I don't want to try to stop her if that is what she really wants. But, if she would give me a chance, I would take it. Now, I am thinking she might have taken it that way. which leads to why responded the way she did and now wants to follow through on D. Also, GAL has really prepared me for if and when she would ask me for D. Its not what I want, but I am prepared for it.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/12/15 05:47 PM
Nettles, I misread your comment about fighting her terms on D. I would fight any unfair terms on D.

In addition, She replied that it doesn't matter who files so she will take care of it. She asked for my address and said that she will have the money to file on February 6th and she would like for me to pay half and I left it at that. We haven't spoken or text since then. Thinking about how I reacted to that conversation, I realized that I did not react like I would have a few weeks ago. I do not think she expected for me to not panic. My normal reaction would have been to say I am not ready and to ask for another chance. In some ways, I am proud of myself but I still feel despair at the fact my M might end. I have started a new life with new friends. I have a regular hobby. I am enjoying this new life as much as I can. However, I see my new friends with their spouses and I feel such a hole open up in my heart and the thoughts about how can my M end this way? why is it ending? and why me? consume me until I find my way back to acceptance. We have been separated for 7 months now. The longer it last, the more I realize the end is inevitable. I don't want any of you to think I am unhappy. I try to find happiness in everything that I do, but like many of you I still cling to that light at the end of tunnel. you cant quite see where you will be but you hope it will in the arms of the one you gave your heart to. if not, you hope that all the work you've done to get you to the end will help you accept anything else besides what you've hoped for. I've heard D described as being reborn again but you must die first. I fear that path. I will continue the work to save my M until the end. on that note, I have followed the rules as far and as much as I can. we are co-parents so it is hard to go dark at times. Doing 180s is kind of difficult, we do not live together, we barely communicate and we rarely are around each other. I have sought counseling and attended men's seminar on marriages and relationships to better myself. I watched one of Michele's video on YouTube about WAWs and she expressed how the H goes on panic mode and become the H the W wished they had; however, they never see or notice the changes they make. At the end, the H becomes a better H at the WAW's account and make someone else extremely happy. I know I am not the same man. My happiness is not tied to being M but I would like to make my W happy. no one else. does this any of what I said to anyone? or am I way off base?

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5 Step son 5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
DB:01/09/15
Possible OM, not sure.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/14/15 01:24 PM
W asked me to pay half of the filing cost for D by February.. I did not give her an answer, but I do not want to pay half. How do I communicate that to her?
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Shocked by W - 01/14/15 03:04 PM
I haven't read your thread yet, but I would say you probably don't want a D, since you are here. Therefore, simply tell her that if she is determined to get D from you that you will not stand in her way, but that you will not help her by financing it.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/14/15 05:14 PM
Thanks Sandi2.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/14/15 09:15 PM
Need to vent:

Today is the first day her and I spoke for three days. I keep a joint account where I can transfer money to help with the kids, if I am out of town for work. I only keep about $40 in it at any given time. Today, I noticed the balance had dropped to $11 because of an insufficient funds charge. I called and asked. She said that she attempted to make a purchase on ebay and chose the wrong account on PayPal. This is the first time this happened, so I did not take money from her to pay for the charge but I did ask for not let it happen again and to cancel the card off PayPal. She text me that she couldn't cancel the transaction and asked me to cover it by transferring money to the account and she will pay me back. I couldn't properly read the text because my cell at times has a mind of its own, so I misread it. I texted back to ask her to call PayPal and asked why cant you transfer money from your account to joint account? She text back I am asking you to pay for it and I will give you the money. She text right after that I'll just figure it out, never mind. I text back that I couldn't read your text and I informed her I could not for my funds are in another bank and it will take 1 to 2 business days for the transfer.

I didn't trust that she would call and I know PayPal will attempt to charge me again. So,I called the bank and was able to cover it. I called her back and she immediately informed me this was her only day off and that she was trying to study. I told her I am just trying to make sure I don't want to incur any more charges and inform you I took care of it and wanted to schedule when we can meet so she can give me the money.
There no physical branches in our town, wire transfers are the only way to deposit money in that account.

After this interaction, I felt strange.
1) I am questioning that she made a mistake using PayPal. I think that she hoped it would clear. If it was a mistake, Why didn't she call me to warn me?

2) I felt like I was too nice when it came to her offering to pay for my ins.funds charge. (Did she offer out of guilt for trying to purchase something on the joint account?)The fee is insignificant to me and I dont take money from someone for such an amount. However,I still love her and I have to fight the urge to be a H sometimes when she clearly does not treat me as such.

3)From her tone, it felt like she was bothered by my attempts (by informing me that she was attempting to study) to avoid another charge when I called to schedule her repaying me and it bothered me. I was calm and just wanted to take care of it. I shouldn't let her dictate how I feel. It's hard sometimes to do that when you love someone.

4) Overall, I felt like she was testing the waters. The last conversation we had was about filing for D and I don't think my reaction to D was what she expected. She made it seem she was filling out the paperwork while we were exchanging texts and ask me for my address but the petition does not ask for your spouses address at anytime until you are ready to serve your spouse. Since she is asking to pay for half the filing cost, I am assuming she did not file yet and/or she was bluffing. At this point, I am indifferent. Its not what I want but, I keep doing what works.

5) I don't call her unless I need to like today. I completely understand the attitude of WAW and when they give you the ILYBNILWY speech. Personally, I feel if she thinks she can do better. Go right ahead. The ones in her circle have tried to date me after I moved out and they are the ones giving her advice.

6) I have read so many books, articles and watched videos on marriage, divorce and reconciliation since the ILYBNILWY speech. I have no confirmation on OM. I only have suspicions. If he is the person she wants, I am indifferent if I want to stop her or not. The issues she has expressed we had in our M will not be issues she will avoid by D. She needs to mature and so do I. I hoped that we could have did it together.

I don't know where emotionally I am right now, but I feel angry for her giving up. But, I have forgiven her. I feel happy that I may have the opportunity to start over again with someone new and I can use what I've learned to make someone else happy. I am sad for my family is broken. I am sad that D might actually happen even though I am fighting to stop it. Just needed to vent. Thanks guys.

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5 Step son 5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
DB:01/09/15
Possible OM, not sure
Posted By: Nettles Re: Shocked by W - 01/14/15 11:57 PM
Vent away. It is out, so let it go.

What are some of the 180s you need to do? What are some other DR/DB principles you are using? Anything working?

It doesn't mean it is over because you have limited interactions or if W files. Every sitch is different, but the door was opened to R in my sitch when W was 1,000 miles away and not a part of a discussion with me, my L and her L for temporary orders after W filed.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/15/15 04:30 PM
Nettles,
I need to be more decisive with her. She did not like the fact that I answered a yes/no question with a maybe. I am always seeking a compromise.

Stop lying.I lie about insignificant things. i.e. I would take out the trash the morning of and would say I did it the night prior to save face. She hated that.

Lastly, I resigned my commission so I can be home. She did take well to the constant travelling and taking care of the family on her own. She felt abandoned because I had leave days after she gave birth to our son. She did not have the opportunity to pursue her dreams because she had to sacrifice for me. Since the separation, she has enrolled in grad school and pursuing a MBA. Switched careers and handling her own finances. Her words: "I want to live on my own for a while and do the things I want to do." My 180 is give her space.

These are things she has told me before the separation.

Any principle that I have adopted have been twisted by her. She has made me the villain in all of this. According to what I've seen so far in regards to how I am treated by her family, I am the perpetrator.
Posted By: Nettles Re: Shocked by W - 01/15/15 05:51 PM
Originally Posted By: hjoseph

Stop lying.I lie about insignificant things. i.e. I would take out the trash the morning of and would say I did it the night prior to save face. She hated that.


What are you doing to work on that? And I mean, what are you doing to find out why you did this? It has to be something more than "saving face". And news flash: EVERYONE hates this.

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

Any principle that I have adopted have been twisted by her.


What does that mean?

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

She has made me the villain in all of this. According to what I've seen so far in regards to how I am treated by her family, I am the perpetrator.


Is this surprising?
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/16/15 03:34 PM
Gathered from my counseling sessions for PTSD: My insecurities. Undervaluing my worth. The constant feeling of shame for what I did on deployments. They led me to think I was unworthy of the life I was living. To hide how I truly felt, I attempted to maintain the persona of the husband I used to be prior to my commissioning and when I failed, I lied.

DR has taught many great things about M. Especially, the M map. I have adopted many principles learned from DR. Its' a shame I didn't stumble on it before my separation.

To answer your question, my W knows me best. Any changes I have made to myself, she assumes its for her or R and are not permanent. However, I still monitor the results but no changes. At first, I thought I must have been missing the small signs. But, I did not want to confuse kindness for a sign she is willing to work towards R. I do take into consideration that she is now comfortable around me now.

Caveat: If I had to describe her attitude towards me, it would be of a person who is content. I do not see any emotional struggle with her decision.(Might be because she doesn't see or feel any consequences for her decision.)She treats me a level below of being a friend. I am not called for anything else except for when it comes to the kids.

I read DB and DR on the 6 month of our separation. We are now on month 7 months. Some principles I did not apply for it would have required for me to break the rules. Its hard to know what works because I do not really see any changes in her, but I do notice the changes in me.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/16/15 04:12 PM
I want to add because I am considered a liar to her. Everything I say or do is immediately questioned in her mind. Instead of I said something, it is I claim something. I still believe I am not given the benefit of the doubt that I am telling the truth.
Posted By: Nettles Re: Shocked by W - 01/16/15 10:28 PM
Originally Posted By: hjoseph
Gathered from my counseling sessions for PTSD: My insecurities. Undervaluing my worth. The constant feeling of shame for what I did on deployments. They led me to think I was unworthy of the life I was living. To hide how I truly felt, I attempted to maintain the persona of the husband I used to be prior to my commissioning and when I failed, I lied.


I'm sorry you had such a difficult deployment. I can't imagine what that must be like. First and foremost, you have to address this for you. You have to love you. And it looks like you are working on it. Way to go!

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

DR has taught many great things about M. Especially, the M map. I have adopted many principles learned from DR. Its' a shame I didn't stumble on it before my separation.


You have DR now and you are learning. Onward!

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

To answer your question, my W knows me best. Any changes I have made to myself, she assumes its for her or R and are not permanent. However, I still monitor the results but no changes. At first, I thought I must have been missing the small signs. But, I did not want to confuse kindness for a sign she is willing to work towards R. I do take into consideration that she is now comfortable around me now.


It is still early in using this stuff. They like to say ACTIONS not words about changes here. Be consistent and show they aren't temporary. Marathon.

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

Caveat: If I had to describe her attitude towards me, it would be of a person who is content. I do not see any emotional struggle with her decision.(Might be because she doesn't see or feel any consequences for her decision.)She treats me a level below of being a friend. I am not called for anything else except for when it comes to the kids.


OK. Good baseline. And don't read in to the 'emotional struggle' too much right now. You said your contact was limited with W, so there is a lot you aren't seeing.

Originally Posted By: hjoseph

Its hard to know what works because I do not really see any changes in her, but I do notice the changes in me.


Are you changing for the better? Are you turning into the HJ you want to be? If so, keep doing what you are doing.

Originally Posted By: hjoseph
I want to add because I am considered a liar to her. Everything I say or do is immediately questioned in her mind. Instead of I said something, it is I claim something. I still believe I am not given the benefit of the doubt that I am telling the truth.


This is understandable. Is there a way to be honest with W about some small things? Maybe in doing something with or for you kids? Trust is built, and your previous actions have set W's trust meter to 0.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/23/15 02:35 PM
Update:
I am in a great place right now. I have been consistent at the gym and the track. Making new friends. Went a work-vacation week with a friend. Women are coming up to talk to me. It feels good to be wanted again. I finally have a life. The thought of my M still comes but it does not bother me as much anymore. I feel as if I am in the process of letting go of my M and opening a new door for a new M with my W or someone else. I feel confident and happy.

Last Saturday, W and I attended our S's soccer game. It was the first time where it was not awkward to be in each other's presence. There was no conversation still. A few months ago, I would have been sad and angry at the fact my W does not speak to me, that she does not want me and that she chose someone else over me and our family. I would have blamed myself for the failure of our M. Now, I am knowledgeable. This is not all my fault. My friends insist that I take the lead and I file for D. There reasoning is that I am young and have plenty of time to start over. They believe I am wasting my time fighting for someone who clearly wants out and wants to be with OM. Their recommendation goes against my belief and I still believe in my M. I still Love my W. I owe my children at least a chance at having both parents at home. That is why I am here.

I have reread DR/DB in order to make sure I am applying the principles correctly. I don't have confirmation that she is having an A but I rather believe that she is and fighting an A is a lot tougher than I had originally thought. I have changes to myself to look more appealing and I am a great father. Since my role as a H is no longer needed, I do not act as such. I don't contact her unless it is necessary. I do not try to take the temperature of our relationship or lack of it. I do take notice when they are changes to her behavior when I have a chance for a 180, but no movement towards R. LRT is difficult because of the kids. Our parenting plan changes constantly and we need to communicate.

What do you guys think? What should I do?

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5 Step son 5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
DB:01/09/15
Possible OM, not sure
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/26/15 04:45 PM
Update:
Saturday, I attended SS soccer game with W and mother in law at W's request. I had planned on attending before she asked. Also, I took the opportunity to ask for the money I was owed. In the evening, I attended a birthday party with old college friends. I had a great night.

Sunday, I studied for my entrance exam. I plan on attending graduate school this summer. I picked the kids that evenings for some quality time. Usually, the W would have not cared that I picked them up from grandma's on her week, but she was not happy that I did. She made it clear that I will have to inform her prior to picking them up on her week from now on. I agreed.

I found myself accepting my new reality. I have yet to get rid off that feeling of failure, but I am no longer controlled by it.

Noticeable Changes:
-W spends more time with kids. In the beginning, Mother-in-law and I would split guardianship while the W would be out with her friends, possible OM or at work. Past 2 weeks, she has been actively looking to spend more time with them. I wanted to see this change in her for the kids.

-She is friendlier to me. Prior to a few weeks ago, she would not acknowledge me. No HI's or goodbye's. Now, I am greeted. No conversations yet.

Overall, she sounds and looks happy. Maybe b/c of OM.

Is it normal for LBHs to ask themselves, why am I fighting for her? I love my W but she is not the only fish in the sea. Do I want D? No. Do I want to keep my family? Yes. But, the disrespect, the lies and the very likely A she is having. This is a hard to swallow.

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
DB:01/09/15
Possible OM, I didn't ask.
Posted By: Squiggy Re: Shocked by W - 01/26/15 05:04 PM
I'm going to take a shot and guess that it is normal for the LBS to have that question. I have done the same these past few weeks. Even though we have, in most cases, definitely contributed to where we are, the actions taken by the WAS hurt and make us question. Only you have the answer as to whether or not you want to tolerate it.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/26/15 07:15 PM
Thanks Squiggy. I tolerate it because I love her. Sometimes, I wish I didn't.

Thing I've noticed: W is calling more often to either pick up the kids or take SS to practice on her weeks. Those are things I don't mind doing, but I was not usually called to do those things. I would have to volunteer. Lately, I stopped volunteering because I have been so busy. I understand she is in grad school and working full time. I want to help but I had the feeling she was using the kids as way to control my time. Also, when she wants to communicate, she does not text anymore. She calls.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/27/15 04:43 PM
Phone rings at 0630 EST, I answered because I thought it was an emergency with the kids but W needed me to jump start her mother's car. On my way to her mother's, W calls again to ask for my tax filing plan, S's social security card and SS's school account login information. NC is getting a bit more difficult.

I have been reading a lot of Starsky's, sandi's and Train's posts lately and implemented them in my DB plan. I have noticed a lot of immediate changes with the W. It might a little too soon to really think she is making a turn and I don't really expect her. Also, I don't know for sure if the changes I've made are the cause of her sudden change of behavior(correlation does not equal causation)and I might be putting too much weight into this development. My W has never been one to show a lot of emotion, her actions are the way she expresses herself. I feel as if she is trying to get closer to me but I keep my life a mystery to her.

Also, we used to have a common married female friend who has kept in touch with me and is very disappointed in W due to her wanting for D. She was kind of mentor to the W until she recommended that she tried MC. The W did not like that. Nevertheless, the friend calls to check on me, not unusual. I never say much. I let her do all the talking and I listen.

She called to say that I needed to let go. It has been long. I deserve better and that W's reasons for D are absurd. When she married a military man, she should have known that prolonged absences are the norm and her lack of self esteem and insecurities are not an excuse for abandoning her H upon his return from an oversea deployment. She didn't give you the opportunity to show her the love and affection she missed while you were away. To leave a good man for an immoral man is a recipe for a repeat failure. I applaud you for fighting for your M. You are only showing how good of a H you actually are. I would have understood if you were a cheater, an abuser or an overall bad person but you are none of those. You've worked on your trauma which was your only flaw. You showed her how much you loved her even when you were 1000's of miles away. I know because she would not shut up about the things you did for her, what you bought her and the things you said. But, I need you to know that woman is gone. Let her go. She will soon realize the mistake she is making, but I want you to find someone who will give you the love you deserve. Do not waste your love and your heart on someone who does not value their worth.
After all of that, she goes off in tangent about the W's possible OM and how she could have steeped so low and be with someone who is engaged. I listened. I chimed in to say that my W's choice is her own and I appreciate your concern.

I wanted to share this conversation because it's what I've been told by those close to me and W.

In the end, my opinion is all that matters.

Me:28 W:24
M:4 years
S5, SS5, S2
Separated: 07/01/14
DB:01/09/15
Possible OM, I didn't ask.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/28/15 02:23 AM
So, SS's school has a fundraiser and I started to raise money on his behalf. Everyone who donates, I receive an email verifying the person donated. The W asked for my login information to donate and she donated. Later that evening, the person I thought as the OM donated. This man has been constant throughout my separation. Its safe now to confirm he is the OM. For some reason, I am sad but not shocked. I am also disappointed.
Posted By: Barry Re: Shocked by W - 01/30/15 08:50 AM
Hi HJ

I'm up to date with your sitch, and thanks for posting on my thread. I just wanted to drop in, say Hi, and say I'm sure it's more than difficult to hear about an OM. I myself don't have that atm, but it's obviously only a matter of time if we don't R.

There's a couple of things on your recent posts that really resonate with me which are,

"I tolerate it because I love her. Sometimes, I wish I didn't".

AND

"Is it normal for LBHs to ask themselves, why am I fighting for her? I love my W but she is not the only fish in the sea. Do I want D? No. Do I want to keep my family? Yes".

(I really need to try and figure out the proper quotation box thing).

Of course you will be sad, you wouldn't be here if you didn't love her. Although it may not be a shock to you as you had suspicions, the reality of it will still be painful and dissapointing. I take it you know the OM to some degree then?

As you know, I'm no vet, I just wanted to say hi and let you know that I'm keeping up with your sitch.

Good luck.

Barry.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/30/15 01:57 PM
Hi Barry,
Thank you. I am here to learn just like you. Yes, I know the OM. We used to be coworkers and his former fiancée and I were college classmates.

Update:
Last night SS could not sleep. He could only talk about me finally coming home and how he does not want his mom to forget about me. It was hard to hear that. I spoke to him and clamed him down. He ended by telling me that OM has been in W's apartment with them in the house. I am not shocked that he was there but I am at the fact my kids were there. My W and I obviously do not share the same moral principles as of this moment. We used to, but to have OM there when no one has filed for D rubs me the wrong way. We haven't spoken about the future of raising our children or our finances. We continue this farce on Facebook where our wedding pictures are still up as if we are just having marital problems. She continues to put herself and her romantic desires ahead of the kids. I am ready and willing to call her out on her lies. She hasn't come out to say this OM exist to me. I only heard about him from a mutual friend and now SS.

I need some more tools in my toolbox . We do not communicate. I am not easily accessible to her. With NC, we haven't really talked about M or had an opportunity to call her out. I feel as if my silence has given her a clear conscious to continue this A which is turning pretty serious.

Since I have been of these boards, I have felt better about myself and my sitch. I am back to my old self. I have a pretty healthy life now that helps me keep my mind off things. I am optimistic about the future. I am happy GOD led me here. I still want my M to work and keep my family intact.

If anyone has any more advice on how to combat this A, please share with me.
Posted By: Ontheup Re: Shocked by W - 01/30/15 04:12 PM
Hey HJ

Im in a similar boat in that just found out my wife is having an afair with her business partner.
Im soon to be moving out of marital home for financial reasons. I know a lot say dont but she holds all the cards financially at the moment. As far as her realising her actions she will only see that when im gone. The splittling of family, although she looks like she doesnt care right now will be painful. Me not being there as her best friend which i still was right up to BD. Even now she is stil trying to be my best friend. I do majority of household chores. Ill no longer be there to pick that up. Will this drive her nearer to other man? maybe But i cant control what she does.

As far as NC and combatting the A its comes across from vets that there really isnt much you can do. Be civil upbeat and friendly when you are in contact. obvisuly no persuing begging pleasding andything that makes you look weak. No woman wants a weak man. Im done with being weak.
Im moving on. Im not even sure myself that i want to be with her anymore. Think a lot of it is my pride.
We all know the stats on Affairs. They very rarely work out. Affairs are built on lies and deceit. When it is exposed it generaly takes some of the shine off. If/when they have a proper normal open relationship then that is when you start seeing all the flaws in the other person. Sat there in their PJs rather than the sexy undies they wore on their once a week visit. They snore!! oh no they didnt do that before. They fart a lot. jees they never did that when we were sneaking around. They smoke! that never bothered me before but now.........its awful hs breath stinks. My child hates him........wow no wonder you broke a family apart for this guy..they just want their dad/mum back together. They are very messy.....i didnt notice that when i saw her for just a few hours. What happended to all the sex? See above, doubt they want much sex anymore with all the flaws they are both starting to see.
So for me I am just going to let it run its course. They are in the fog and only they can come out of it. Anything i say will, to her justify her actions even more and reaffirm her decision to choose someone/something else. If im still around and she wants to work then who knows. As it stands im moving on, taking care of my daughter 50/50 split and going to get my old self back as I have wasted too much time already trying to fix something that cant be fixed. As one vet says, you have been given the gift of time. Use it. Do stuff you want to do for a change. If things work out with you both, great if not you will be a better and more attractive person. I truly believe that no matter what you see or feel now that one day the WAW in A looks back and thinks wtf have a i done. Was all that pain really worth it.

Stay on the boards, do what works for you read what the vets say
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 01/30/15 06:04 PM
SRD,
I am sorry that you have to move out. I understand the feeling of not wanting to be with W any longer. I have the same sentiment.
The rest of your post really echoed what I have read in the past. I just needed to reset to get back on course. Thank you for that. This process is a cycle for me. I was at my lowest point when I heard OM has been playing with my boys. But, you are right. One day, WAWs will look back and regret their actions.
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 02/02/15 08:25 PM
Hi everyone,
Here is an update:
On Saturday, I took SS to his soccer game. Per the agreement made with W and SS's far\ther, he spends every other week with his father. However, for the past few weeks, I have been keeping him during the same weeks I would have my S. I don't mind. To me, he is my S. I've been in his life since he was 6 mo. old. After the game, we went to museum. We had a blast. Took a lot pictures and posted them on FB. Afterwards, I received a call from grandma from SS father's side and she wanted for me to drop him off and I did. For the rest of the evening, S and I enjoyed the park.

On Sunday, I ran a few errands but I mostly spent the day with my S at the soccer field to practice. We watched the end of the Super Bowl afterwards. Later that evening, I logged in on FB and I noticed the W liked most of the pictures I posted of the museum (even the ones with me in it) and of the soccer practice. Very unusual because she had not done so since our separation. She would usually copy the ones with the boys and post them on her page or scroll past them and tell the boys she saw them on FB. I only brought this up because a mutual friend who is her age once told me that is somewhat of a significant event for them. Personally, I don't see it.

Overall,It was great weekend. I am still NC with the W. To be honest, it is starting to feel awkward calling her my W when I am starting to feel like I am not M anymore.

I am thriving through this separation. My finances are in order once again. I love my new civilian career. I will attend graduate school. Physically, I am never felt better. Back to 6:00 min mile pace. I am back on the path I was on before W went into the fog. I might even say farther along the path now. I still feel empty in regards to my emotional and physical needs. I was always hesitant to follow through with the idea of an actual romantic date. I've taken a few friends out but it was for the company. Now, I feel like I am ready. I don't know where that puts me. I am totally against cheating/having an A but I am excited with the new possibilities. I love my W and always will. Her A is still ongoing ( at least I think it is. I don't keep tabs on her) and she hasn't shown any interest in connecting with me. even as friends for the sake of the kids. We barely communicate about anything. She has not any inclination to move towards our M. At first, I thought she didn't know how to approach me because her behavior would seem over the top. I had asked for something. She answered and I said thank you. She replied with a your welcome. I know that seems ordinary but she has not been this polite to me since I left for deployment in 2013. My mother gave me some advice, based on another event she witnessed, in regards my W's inability to communicate with me. My mother said: "Her shame for what she has done to a good man might be too much for her. She would rather stay the course instead of having to admit any wrongdoing or admit she made a mistake. She knows she is about to lose you. I can tell she is hurting. She is smart but still young. Trust me, she will have to show her hand soon enough. D or R" I didn't believe it for my W seemed pretty sure in her decision. I left after I told her I couldn't live in an open M. A few months went by,I asked if we could R and she said no. I have been NC for months and she asked for D. Now, we don't talk unless its about the kids. I am pretty much hit the bottom of the barrel in her hierarchy of relationships. I laugh about it all the time with my colleagues. My exes would speak higher of me than my W would.

I am very thankful for the time she has given me. I am better for it, but I do miss talking to her. It wouldn't bother me if we were not M anymore. I miss my best friend. She was my equal in life.



Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 02/04/15 04:26 PM
Just finished my last graduate school application. Now, I wait for decisions. I love learning. I can't wait to go back to school. So excited!

Earlier in the day yesterday, W called me three times. I let it go to VM. I called 4 hours later and all she wanted was to verify if I remembered that I had to leave our S's Social Security card at his school for pick up. In addition, this morning she TM that she changed her mind. She asked for me to keep the card and she will pass by later in the evening to pick it up. She added that she needs me to take SS to soccer game and that she plans to take the boys to the movies. I replied with just an ok.
Temp Check??
Posted By: hjoseph Re: Shocked by W - 02/09/15 07:51 PM
Last Week. The W texts me asking me to take SS to his soccer game on Saturday 2/7/2015. I did not answer. She continues to text me that she plans to take the kids to the movies on Saturday and that she already bought the valentines day cards for the kids. Eventually, I replied ok and I wont be in town Saturday. Later that evening, she calls asking for SS' reading log for his school. In the background, I can hear SS yelling to ask me if I wanted to go the movies with them. I told him I couldn't I would be out of town and he says that they are on their way now to the movies. I told him I left already. I am out of town. W immediately chimes in and says: " you left already! Oh!" I said my goodbyes and hung up.

This morning around 6AM, W text me to confirm I will drop by SS' school to turn in his reading log.

Now, my question?

Is this string of new behavior from the W something I should take notice of? Our contacts have been initiated by her and she is contacting more often compared to when we first separated. It is as if she trying to make sure we cross paths. The change last week from dropping of the card at S' school to I will meet you at work was kind of weird.
I have read a lot of post where DB coaches have been advising to ease up on LRT when WAWs are now slowly coming back into the fold, but I don't feel like she is and I am afraid that if she is I might not recognize it.

Any advice anyone? Anyone?
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