Jim, I made it through the weekend on one thread...
Maybell XX Feeling so nervous about this new step, and a lot of the anxiety is wearing his name. It feels weird and wrong to be taking this step without him behind me. But it is what it is. I am excited but I have butterflies in my stomach and things will feel more normal in a few weeks.
I bet you will feel normal even sooner that that. Sorry if I missed it - what is your start date? I'm so excited for you! A whole new world of adults to meet, interact with, practice your personal growth training with. I think my biggest developments as a man since BD have been at work.
Your H may have your back again someday. In the meantime, if nothing else, you have us. Go Maybell!
Maybell, I work FT, had three kids at home, and zero household help. The thing that got me through the week was routines - tidy every day, do a load of laundry every day, run the dishwasher and unload it at the same point in your day every day. Get the kids to help, they can do lots of things.
Meal planning and prep is HUGE for me, planning out what I'm going to eat, doing all the shopping ahead of time, and prepping things ahead of time is what allows my family to eat every day. My freezer, my crockpot, and my rice steamer are my best friends.
Write down what absolutely MUST be done everyday, and then add some things you can do weekly, monthly, and occasionally. Adjust as needed.
You can do this!
Jim, I made it through the weekend on one thread...
Maybell XX Feeling so nervous about this new step, and a lot of the anxiety is wearing his name. It feels weird and wrong to be taking this step without him behind me. But it is what it is. I am excited but I have butterflies in my stomach and things will feel more normal in a few weeks.
Firsts usually cause anxiety. It's a step.
Look forward.
Maybell,
You've always struck me as a very organized person in your posts. I have a lot of confidence that you will do well as you sort out finding the balance with all of your new work responsibilities.
Congratulations again - well deserved, I am sure!
Thanks so much for the words of encouragement. I'm hopeful things will go smoothly. I'm sure there will be bumps but nothing insurmountable.
There was a lot of co-parenting business today so I had several extensive email exchanges with H. He has shown no curiosity at all about my job, but did agree with me about some "policy" stuff with the kids and took it upon himself to investigate a particular tech solution to a question about D11. So at least he's doing a little better about participating in their lives. I should give him a little credit and mention that he did give me two compliments on my appearance on Thursday. For what that's worth.
I'm feeling so hopeless about him right now. S8 did something great at his activity tonight so I sent H a quick text letting him know how great he looked. In reply H asked if S8 seemed to be feeling better about things. That he'd been trying to help him feel better about things.
This is SO FRUSTRATING to me. Why should S8 (or any of them) have to be made to feel a little better about H's stupid, inconceivable decisions? I was NOT THAT BAD. Really. I know there were ways in which I WAS challenging but they weren't worse than the ways in which H was challenging and I didn't cut and run -- I tried to make us work better together as best I could. I tried to rely on him. I tried to let him lead. I tried to suggest ways we could have more fun together. I did everything I could think of to bring us closer. He just didn't care about me enough to want to connect.
So why am I breaking my heart over him? Why am I letting this last evening be sad instead of excited?
Anyway, I told him that S8 was excited for the changes he'd made and I thanked him for them. I said that I wasn't talking to him about it as much since he'd started seeing the counselor because his relationship with H was between the two of them. I said he was still having nightmares but was doing better about sharing them with me.
He said that was all that he wanted to know and that he didn't expect it to get solved overnight, but wanted to make sure it was going in the right direction.
Is it mind-reading to think that he's more intent on staying apart?
Am I stupid for wishing we could pull together on this?
I can't conceive that we are actually meant to be divorced. I SO DON'T WANT THAT. But I'm feeling really hopeless right now. Signs notwithstanding.
I hate that cOW. I hate that he let himself go down that road. I hate hate that he let that happen rather than work on making things good with me. I hate that he didn't think I was worth the effort. I just want to be loved. By a grown-up. Who thinks I'm a wonderful person and worth the effort.
I can stand to be alone. I can even be happy alone. I just want my family to be intact and I want not to be going through this after I worked so hard to try to make our life as good as I could.
Maybe, just a little bit, I hate him for putting us through this pain.
Oh Maybell,
If I was in a stronger place tonight I would offer some great words of support. (I'd try to channel you, because you are so gifted at that). But, tonight I feel like I could have written most of your post myself. I want to scream at him. I want to ask his family and friends--why haven't ANY of you said to him, "WTF is your problem? Go get counseling and make it work, dude! Who just walks out on their W?!"
Maybe there is some weird astronomical thing going on because my chest has been tight all day thinking about this.
I hate your H for putting you and your kids through this, too. You are much, much more than "not that bad." You are pretty amazing from what we can see here.
My MIL ended up with a 2nd H who dotes on her, loves and treats her children and their spouses better than his own (yep. no one said he's perfect), and has basically helped her have the happy life her XH couldn't give her. And my FIL? Well, he ended up with a W that no one likes, has no R with his W's kids, and wanted to D her about 10 years ago.
May we all end up with someone who sees our value and is strong enough to stand by us and work on the R instead of running away like a cowardly, selfish fool.
Clearly I need to detach further. I need to hold that rope more loosely. I need to look forward and see what the world has to offer besides him.
Sigh. I can totally do this. I'm a peach. And I have a killer outfit planned for tomorrow with fabulous red patent leather heels. (Totally professional, just with a touch of zing.)
Oh Maybell, so many of us could have written that post. We share these doubts about whether we stand a chance to reconcile. All those mixed and sometimes not-so-mixed signals... I take comfort in thinking that we have to hit rock bottom before we can reconcile. Our WAS, it seems to me, will be relentless until we have clearly shown them that we're moving on. At least, that's what I see in the success stories. I wish I had the strength to implement this idea.
I'm impressed at how well you responded to his text.
Hi Maybell, Sorry you're feeling this way. I have many of those same thoughts. It made me think about what YOU wrote to me a few months ago.
I'm so sorry you're feeling so discouraged.
No one knows what the future will hold. Regardless of your husband's feelings you have the opportunity to make your life what you want of it. You have a beautiful life in front of you, you just have to get through this slog with dignity and a belief that you deserve the best. The best way to get that is to be your best. You can do this. You've already done so much.
How are you different than eight months ago?
Hugs to you.
It's ok to feel the way you are feeling, we are all entitled to our own emotions. Don't wallow too long though, move forward and continue on YOUR path!
Maybell, you gave yourself the best advice: let go of that rope. Don't let your currently foolish H control you with that role (whether he's trying to or not). I can't WAIT to hear about your first day! To me, you are on of the most inspiring stories I've read since I've been on here. The 5K thread (get on there and update! Turkey trot in 2 weeks!), being there in that dark hour on my thread, networking and finding a great job, haunted ziplines!! (or was it just a zipline at a Halloween fest? Either way...fun to read about) You're a gift to the community here and have picked me up many times, whether you realized it or not.
Like you said, you're a peach. Go get em
Thank you, friends! Too much exposure to him is still tough for me. Dropping rope. Releasing expectations. Living for my kids & me.
Just like he is? Except my priorities are different? Hmm...
Lost, throwing my own words at me? Brilliant... And a bit of a sting. Thanks for reminding me of my best self.
Did not mean for it to sting! If I took all the advice I'd given to other over the years well I think my life might be perfect!
You are going through a rough patch right now, you will come out on the other side!
Good sting. Like, oh, yeah, duh, I knew that.
thank you, truly.
Clearly I need to detach further. I need to hold that rope more loosely. I need to look forward and see what the world has to offer besides him.
Sigh. I can totally do this. I'm a peach. And I have a killer outfit planned for tomorrow with fabulous red patent leather heels. (Totally professional, just with a touch of zing.)
Red heels are the bomb. I've got red and black suade? Sp and a patent red and black hand bag! Kick ar$re heels I call em.
Clearly I need to detach further. I need to hold that rope more loosely. I need to look forward and see what the world has to offer besides him.
Sigh. I can totally do this. I'm a peach. And I have a killer outfit planned for tomorrow with fabulous red patent leather heels. (Totally professional, just with a touch of zing.)
I'm just going to say, let go and accept the reality of your situation in this moment. You're holding on to something that is no more.
You're holding on to a lot of stuff from the past. Free yourself.
You have this day.
What's good in it?
Maybell - I recently started listing 3 things I'm grateful for, every day. I can say it has helped me a little to seek the positive during the day. We're supposed to do it for 21 days.
My heart goes out to you as I feel like I could've written some of your posts myself. I second what Card said in an above post about how you are a gift to the community. Your posts are always inspiring to me. Hang in there and do what you need to do for yourself and your children.
It felt really good to be back at work. I have a TON to learn and I'm really excited about it.
The school guidance counselor held a talk last week about gratitude that I can't believe I haven't shared here! She challenges the kids to imagine they were stranded on a desert island with only the things/people they were grateful for the day before.
What would you have left in your life if you had only what you'd been grateful for?
How different would your life be?
(btw, I set this challenge to my kids the other night. D11 said she was grateful for chocolate. S8 said he was grateful for "everything I like." D11 said she was counting on getting washed up on the island with him, I said she'd better treat him better so he'd be grateful for her. :D)
I have so much to be grateful for. I am ENORMOUSLY blessed. H doesn't remember he loved me? I'm not gonna lie -- it hurts a lot and is incomprehensible. But I'm growing so much and have learned to be more open than I was. So I guess he'd be on the desert island with us. But OW wouldn't be.
In the spirit of updating, I will mention that he sent a text at 8:30 wishing me good luck on my first day. Which was nice.
I feel like if I could learn to see him as though I hadn't spent all those years with him, that it would transform both of us. So I guess that's the target I'm aiming for in the "let it go" effort.
Thank you all so much for the kind words. You'd make the desert isle with me.
Woo hoo! Congrats on finishing your first day!
Love that gratitude exercise!
Sounds like you making it up to a new step in your journey. .
Can someone please translate WAH for me?
He brings the kids back home from Scouts. He's very friendly, much friendlier than in weeks. We praise S8 together and laugh about something (kind of a lot), he asked me very warmly about my first day and if the job is what I was hoping for. We work out a little detail about the schedule.
He left promptly. I don't feel any particular warmth for me personally, but it's friendlier. We looked in each other's eyes a few times. He didn't seem to want to hug me.
It is what it is for today, right? Warmer is better. I like being back at work so much, and I have a very different set of ambitions now than I had when I was 22 and fresh out of college. There's a lot less pressure on me now, and significantly more competence and motivation to do well. It is MUCH nicer to be 22 than 42.
I am so very blessed.
I meant much nicer to be 42 than 22.
It is what it is for today, yes.
Warmer is better, yes.
Nicer to be 22? Wait a sec...No thank you, Ms. Maybell! (I hope that was a typo!?)
Glad to hear you are enjoying work!
"Maybell - I recently started listing 3 things I'm grateful for, every day. I can say it has helped me a little to seek the positive during the day. We're supposed to do it for 21 days."
21 days? Dang, I been going almost 90.
"I feel like if I could learn to see him as though I hadn't spent all those years with him, that it would transform both of us."
Maybell, you have no idea how much wisdom is in that quote right there. ^^^^
Yes, take the win for the day. I find it an interesting opportunity NOT to reciprocate so that we leave them wanting, unsure if we have really moved on, safe that they can express warmth without getting into a R discussion. (Then again, when it's my W, I think I HAVE to reciprocate otherwise she'll never be nice again. Sigh...)
You had a wonderful day. I'm glad you reported on your first day. You're doing great in so many ways. Keep posting.
I don't typically post Bible quotes because it's too easy to take them out of context, but I know the context of this one and I like that it was today's passage:
Hebrews 12:1-2
Therefore let us also, seeing we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising its shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Maybell,
Thanks for posting this. I needed it tonight. Congratulations again on the job. You and so many people here are such an inspiration.
It's good to be excited about something that's just yours, isn't it.
And the WIN goes to MB!
Congrats on a good first day! Best of luck in your new journey. Sometimes having an outside focus is a very good thing.
Vets... I know, let go. But he seems awfully committed to being apart. It feels final. Am I going through a new stage of grieving?
Maybell,
Is it true?
Is it grieving?
Is it some other emotion that is unexplored?
Are your reactions based on some imagined thoughts?
Maybell,
I'd say probably. At least that's what I think I've been feeling. So maybe I'm just projecting. Who knows.
But I haven't cried in a couple of days after a couple of really awful days. So, there's that.
Hang in there. The only way through this is through it.
Have to agree with Claire. Only way through it is through it Not great
Vets... I know, let go. But he seems awfully committed to being apart. It feels final. Am I going through a new stage of grieving?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
or
What did I miss?
I want someone to pull out the their crystal ball and tell me this isn't permanent.
I'm ok now. Too much contact lately.
I'm glad you're feeling better.
This is an observation, not a 2x4, but I've noticed that lately you seem to be pulling back from your H and focusing on yourself There is nothing wrong with that, but I wonder if your H isn't sure where to go next and is letting things work out on your timeframe? (Or at least what he thinks is your timeframe.) Or maybe he's feeling too vulnerable to take risks?*
I'm not sure what you could do differently, but maybe you can at least change the narrative in your head.
*I had a big aha moment a few weeks ago when I realized that there is a lot my H would do if I asked, but if I don't ask he's probably not going to take the risk without my prompting because there's a chance he could get hurt, and why subject himself to that when he doesn't even know if it's something I need? I do the same thing too.
For me, at least, I find myself in some sort of grieving mode/stage/whatever you want to call it whenever something happens that makes things feel a little more final. It's sad but it also pushes me a little more to accepting this reality. For example, when I got the text from H that he was ready to move forward with filing, the heavy sadness started all over again (that can't sleep, uninterested in eating, can't go anywhere without feeling teary type of grief). But, it passed much more quickly than when it's happened the other times, so if you find you're bouncing back more quickly and easily, I'd call that a good thing
We've been communicating a TON about the kids. Everything is mutually supportive and agreeable and friendly. We've been much more on the same page in the last few weeks than we were before he moved out. He seems to see the kids more clearly and to see what I've been trying to work on with them. he sees my concerns and seems to value my opinions a little more.
And he's been almost excited for me about the job. He seems really comfortable in this distant-but-friendly place. For me, it's excruciating. I feel like it's so easy for us to get along. We agree so readily. He smiles at me and I smile at him. It makes me miss him so much. It's like a tease.
If we had done this well together before the OW there wouldn't have been an OW and we would be the couple right now that I mostly thought we were, and that other people tell me they thought we were. So why can't we just step things up and be in love and happy?
Oh, right, because he knows from the OW what passion really is and that's what he wants from his life and I can't give that to him because I'm just a humdrum boring old middle-aged housewife and worn-out mom of three noisy kids.
I'm happy in every other area of my life. Truly. But that part, I'm really struggling with. I feel not terribly bright.
Don't go there, Maybell. Look at the positives, ok? And think of what 25years always says about the need for them to see consistent change over time.
Be ok with this plateau. Sometimes a plateau is a good thing... sometimes you (or a WAH) need(s) to feel really really ok with the status quo before it feels safe enough to take a new leap.
You've done such an amazing job focusing on you. Keep your eyes on the prize (which is you).
((hugs))
Thanks. I come here with my lows because there's always someone with the exact right words I need to hear to keep me moving forward. I'my sorry if I seem needy. I think I've gotten to a bit of a mucky place that's deeper and harder and I'm not sure where I am or what to do with the goo. Getting the job was a BIG hurdle -- words can't describe how huge -- and I feel a bit of, "ok... What do I do now that I've gotten past that obstacle? The view is too new for me to have my bearings." Also yesterday and tonight were Scout nights which means I had zero quality time with my kiddos and I'm feeling some pain about that.
Also, the kids are in bed and I'm avoiding my evening routine because I'm tired.
Thanks for having the right words, Claire!
Answering my own question... I live in the moment and take in the view. Adjust my footing as needed and invite the people who care about me to share in it.
See? I can learn. Just a little slow on the processing speed.
I wouldn't say you're slow, maybe uncomfortable with your inability to pin life down. I liked your comeback post.
Did you ever go into a funhouse with shaky floors and the first couple of steps you walk like you're drunk and maybe even stumble a bit. Then as you get the hang of how to balance and make progress you can move along at a pretty good pace with the occasional misstep requiring readjustment.
That's the reality of life.
That's what I mean by the right words. I know you've been telling me this for months, but somehow "inability to pin life down" is getting through today. Thank you,Yoda.
Trying to accept how things are now... I asked him for a recipe by email. Because the kids liked his preparation so much. This is a 180 from being Queen of the kitchen. But also something I'd do with anybody. We'll see what happens. We've been communicating a lot since I started working again. You know, all three days.
I feel like I want to say to my H, "Can we start over from scratch?" And get to know one another fresh again. I just really miss him. We both screwed up so badly. But I really love him. He matters so much to me. Is there some way to say that?
Maybell,
Congrats on the new gig! I hope things are going well and it sounds like you and h are communicating well.
I'm just going to toss this out there and it is simply an observation. You are one of the more rapid changers of threads I follow. I know it's difficult to be (said woman who is a giant freaking ball of anxiety:), however it seems to me that you really *feel* each interaction with your h and change perceptions quickly. Perhaps you are anxious for something to transpire? And if so, I totally understand. I'm not saying it's good or bad. It's not for me to decide. However, I think it's interesting you *feel* and try to go with each interaction with your h. That's probably articulated terribly by me so please know I do not intend to offend with that convoluted analysis.
Glad you are having a good 1st week!
Maybell,
in a nutshell, no you can't tell him that. i feel for you and empathize, i really do! every day i want to scream the same thing at the top of my lungs to my wife and profess my undying love and loyalty to her. the sad thing is is that right now they don't want that or us in point of fact. is that crazy? you bet your ass it is. but I believe in you and who you can be. if you are struggling, try to break down the day into smaller increments. such as my goal is to not cry 1 time in the next 30 min. when you accomplish that goal, celebrate it. maybe the achievements, small as they may be, will start to snowball and the resulting confidence will do you wonders.
prayers for you.
Are you saying I'm super reactive?
I'm not going to get offended. I know I'm a bit of a mess.
Kids and I have gone back to watching the show we all watched together as a family before H left. He's been very friendly and helpful to me and I'm seeing his best side which I haven't seen in years. The holidays are coming and I'm spending Thanksgiving alone with just friends for the first time ever. (Intentionally, but still...)
I love him anyway but he's been so kind and pleasant and when I see him we look in one another's eyes and smile and I miss him. All this ILYB and affair stuff happened in the midst of three huge life transitions so I'm having a hard time believing it's how he's been feeling for years.
I want to be married to him and to no one but him. I have things to atone for too. I'd like to have the chance to know him again and to be known for who I really am and not so much the lonely, scared, overwhelmed person I was for such a long time.
I know. Marathon. I didn't expect I'd get encouragement. But I do truly miss him. I know we all do.
Bravo, I'm really functioning fine. I just honestly miss him. I'm not used to people I want to know better being out of my reach.
I feel like I want to say to my H, "Can we start over from scratch?" And get to know one another fresh again. I just really miss him. We both screwed up so badly. But I really love him. He matters so much to me. Is there some way to say that?
I'll share my crazy idea, even though it's not yet been put in practice. It's an option for when my W gets out of the fog. Let's see what it's worth.
Years ago, my W and I were at a party and she came to me and gamely introduced herself pretending not to know me. I went along and introduced myself as "[Mozza] of [native city]." We usually interact in our native language, but that time we spoke English. We flirted all evening and had great fun. We went home and had memorable sex. The character stayed in our relationship and was brought up a few times, to spice things up.
My plan is that, if and when my W becomes available and shows some interest, I'll reintroduce the character and invite her for lunch, dinner or else. This character is a new person and the act gives me an opportunity to marvel at all the things I actually already know about her. It worked wonders in the past, but I'm not sure if and how it would work during R. Again, I expect that there should be some signs of interest on her part, otherwise it will just be pathetic pursuing ("That old trick?! Come on!").
I thought of this when I realized that OP have the advantage of discovering our S. They can be surprised, enthusiastic, horrified... at things that we've known for years and take for granted. It's a rush to impress someone, to see yourself in the eyes of a new person.
I don't know how it applies to your sitch, but could role playing be an option? Or just asking him questions about things that are impressive about him and react like a new person? "Try something different", says DR.
By the way, not to give false hopes or anything, but I agree that there's some positive movement in your sitch lately.
try to break down the day into smaller increments. such as my goal is to not cry 1 time in the next 30 min. when you accomplish that goal, celebrate it. maybe the achievements, small as they may be, will start to snowball and the resulting confidence will do you wonders.
Wow, I had not even thought of a tactic like this.^^^ Wonderful.
I certainly *feel* every thing my wife does, for sure.
Maybell, I totally feel your pain right now.
I'm centered again. I know, GB, I'm a funhouse ride all by myself. All I can say is that my hills and valleys are pushing closer and closer together. I have remembered that he is on a journey of his own and because I want him to be whole almost as much as he wants to be (for him, for me, for the kids) I have to let him go on that journey wherever it leads.
Mozza, at this point we've been so far apart for such a very long time that I really would be meeting him new if we started reconnecting. There wouldn't be any play acting involved. But that is a fun idea. Especially when you have a second language to play with.
Maybell, I'm closing on 4 months and I feel so helpless sometimes. I can't even imagine the struggle you've endured.
The last two months for me have been HUGE. I'm not even close to the same person I was a year ago. I have regrets and sadness but I'm ok. There was no short-cutting this process.
It does make me wonder what I'll be like a year from now.
"There was no short-cutting this process."
I know.
I just wish I could spare the kids any of this.
My kids have suffered and I feel sad for them, but they also have gained from this. H used to just give in to D11 on everything. She has a forceful personality and he had a peace-at-all costs policy. Now that I defer and inform rather than dictate, he's seeing a lot more of what I saw and he's parenting more actively. He sees the boys as individuals more now than he did (interesting, because he hated being treated as "the boys" growing up) and is making much more of an effort. He may or may not be interested in me, but he is doing better with them.
I'm also a much better mother. The 180s I've been practicing directly improve their lives. They're having to be more responsible for themselves but they've become more capable. They've had to adapt to a lot and although they'd rather H and I were together, they also wish we could move back west and I know that would be bad for me. So they will have to learn to live through disappointment, which can make them more resilient.
In the very long run, this may end up being good for our family. Even better if H and I can happily find our way back to one another.
Your husband would be a very lucky man if he woke up one day.
I agree with Bravo. We can't tell them these things. I also want to tell my H this everyday, especially during the last few months that we were making such positive progress. But I think it scares them off. Honestly I think that's why my H just did a total 180 and abandoned therapy and all our progress. He got scared we were doing well and moving forward and he wasn't ready for it.
I'm not giving up on him. You shouldn't either. Give him his space and time. Focus on You and making yourself even better. It's rewarding Jo matter what happens with you and H.
PS: when I want to tell my husband I love him, I just say it in my head. That way I feel I'm allowing and accepting my feelings, just not saying them out loud. It's not the same as telling him of course, but at least it's not pressuring him or pushing him away.
Thought you said you didn't have much to contribute.
Thanks for that!
My kids have suffered and I feel sad for them, but they also have gained from this.
Yesterday I read an article on the difference between hurt and harm. It used a cavity as an example. Eating sugar doesn't hurt, in fact, it's pleasurable, but it harms you, gives you a cavity. The dentist putting in a filling may hurt, but ultimately it's for your own good, it actually repairs the harm. For me, that was an important distinction. My children may hurt for now, but that doesn't mean they have to come to harm in the long run. Eye opening.
Great analogy, rpp.
I think intention is important. Most people come here for sure this is going to ruin the rest of their children's lives. It will change it for sure but ruination isn't a given. Kids are resilient and their environment through tough times is so important.
So if the intention is set that this is going to change the kids lives negatively, it most likely will.
However we can just as easily set a different intention while acknowledging that it's painful. Painful experiences can make us grow in positive ways and our kids are going to have other painful experiences throughout their lives. Helping them learn to control what they can control, let go of what they can't is such a gift.
Most people come here for sure this is going to ruin the rest of their children's lives.
I did. I fought for months for them not to know. And I still wish it had worked out differently. But I learned I can't protect them from some things, including their dad's decisions.
IC challenged me on this one. She asked me to name ways that my children's lives would be different, other than living at two different houses. And I don't know what my answer will be in a couple of months, but I'm going into this S hopeful that my kids will be OK. And that's a really different attitude than I had a few months ago.
It will affect them forever. My parents divorce, my grandparents divorce, it all affected me. I still carry some of that. But I do believe we, as parents, can take the high road and try and minimize the damage as best as possible.
Jefe, everything that happens in our lives affects us, everything. Are you familiar with epigenetics? Fascinating stuff.
I'm curious how those divorces were presented to you and how did the family act about those events.
Jefe, everything that happens in our lives affects us, everything. Are you familiar with epigenetics? Fascinating stuff.
I'm curious how those divorces were presented to you and how did the family act about those events.
Epigenetics, have not heard of that. I will look that up this afternoon.
There isn't enough bandwidth on this server for me to unpack my parents divorce and all of the sexual implications that went along with it.
You don't have to unpack it here but perhaps you can learn not what to do from what they did or didn't do.
Just my .02.
Not much here to report. H just picked up the kids. It was supposed to be his weekend but because he's keeping them for all of Thanksgiving week he offered to give me this weekend too. We ended up splitting because I have a dinner party tonight I want to go to.
He was remarkably flexible about sharing the weekend. Offered to keep them 24 hours morning to morning or afternoon to afternoon, my choice. Responded to my anxiety about having been apart from them (for all 8 hours!) during my first week at work by offering to just stay at the house with them during the dinner party. It was kind of him to be so flexible.
He was wearing his new jeans this morning. I noticed but didn't say anything because I thought it would be pursuing. We didn't have anything to say to one another during the 2-3 minutes the kids ran to get their stuff. Or maybe, I didn't have anything to say to him and he was waiting for me to start. I don't know. I've been quite dark with him since the beginning of October.
I woke up this morning really suspicious that he may have had one-night stands more than once in our past (and I have a couple of occasions in mind that make me suspicious about that), and I'm trying to unpack how I feel about that. I'm really tired of the situation at this moment. I know I've been all over the map with it. Right now, I'm bored of it.
Today: Running, a good yoga stretch after, a barn sale with a friend, figuring out the side I'm bringing to the dinner party, and then the party. Tomorrow, the kids and I are going to hang the Christmas lights. I have a beautiful old house with pillars and a great wrap-around porch on the front and we've never decorated it for anything in the 21 months we've lived here. We deserve this.
If someone can please tell me where my head is I would appreciate it. Right now, I think I'm just living in the moment, which is the right thing. I don't know if I'm behaving appropriately to H to bring about my goals. I'd like to:
1) Know if my suspicions about the one-night stands are accurate
2) If they are, figure out what that means to me and where my boundary around that is
3) Get us to a place where we can both admit to one another where we went wrong and decide if we're willing to rebuild.
I get that he's not there on #3, or if he is he doesn't want it badly enough to chase it down. My hope is that he didn't cheat other than what I know about because I don't know if I have it in me to make the effort with him if he did. It would be better if we could rebuild the marriage. Just for today... I don't care either way. I don't know how I'll feel this afternoon or tomorrow, but for today, I just don't want to be disrupted any more.
Anyway, that's a pretty long post for having nothing much to update today. Hope you all enjoy the weekend! It's chilly but beautiful here so I'm looking forward to enjoying it.
Wait, I'm rereading the post and I realize... yes, I'm tired of the situation. No, I don't have anything to say to him at the moment because the things I would like to say to him can only be said to someone with whom I have a close relationship. And yes, I'd still like to make the marriage work. But I'm not going to throw myself on railroad tracks to make that happen.
And that us hey being dark is important.
I threw myself under the train, it was ugly it was painful and devastating. No one understands why I cannot be his friend while he's in an a. Don't think ill ever be a true friend again to the man. He treats all female aquaintence that get close as ea.
Not a position I want to be in.
I don't know if it's because I'm just SO tired or what... But in the last few days I find things popping out of my mouth that sound just a tinge rude. I don't mean them to, and they're usually quick little innocent things that once they're out I realize sound just a shade spoiled, but it makes me uncomfortable to not be in control like that. It's beginning to worry me.
Just in general, or in particular situations or surroundings?
This is a long answer, but hopefully it will have some usable insight...
Growing up when we were moving around, my parents did two things that really impacted me a lot that I've been trying to cope with for many years.
The first was, they told us that we needed to stay close to them and listen to them really well, because they were the only ones who would ever love us and we needed to not alienate them.
The second was, bad-mouth my extended family (grandparents & aunts & uncles) a LOT. They criticized them constantly. My aunt's favorite color is orange? Well, that's ridiculous? Who likes orange? (I do... but I wasn't willing to admit it to myself till I was almost 30). They criticized everyone CONSTANTLY. They talk too loudly. Think too highly of themselves. Never have X. Always have Y. Who puts raisins in the Thanksgiving stuffing? Constant, constant, criticizing and complaining.
Of course I was like them for a long time, till in high school I started paying attention to how people responded to me and realized that I wasn't winning any popularity contests by acting that way and I really tried to change my behavior to be a better person. More open, more accepting, more empathetic and compassionate. It took years of effort to make that kind of behavior habitual.
I think some of my worst self was left for my H to experience.
College was NOT good for me. I felt really unattractive also was told I was by my dad; when I gained a lot of weight he scowled at me and then when I lost it he told me "I thought I'd never have a thin daughter again." My value to my parents was never about me being intrinsically lovable. I had a bad boyfriend for two years who would certainly have become physically abusive if I'd stayed with him.
Well, my H and kids are on their way over so I'll have to finish this in a little while. But trust me, I'm not rehashing this for no purpose... I'm going somewhere with it.
I'll finish my dissertation in a few minutes, but I just wanted to say... H just dropped the kids off and it was all I could do to not burst into tears and ask him to just please come home. Could someone tell me what happened to my detachment? Why can't I just let go?
I HATE being separated and I don't understand why we are. It seems so senseless. The A seems to have been a response to all the very stressful events leading up to our move here, including the move itself, and the separation was a combination of him wanting the OW and my doing all the wrong things in insisting that he work on the marriage. I don't want to be separated. I love my husband and I want him to want to come home, and for us to work on rebuilding our connection. Can someone please tell me if that is ever going to happen? I'm lonely for him.
He brought kids home a couple of hours early because S8 was throwing up and wanted to come home. Ought I to have invited him to stay and look after S8 so he could feel more comfortable about his well-being?
Did I make things worse by being sad when he left?
I really just wish for a crystal ball. I don't want to cope with this problem anymore.
((Maybell))
I'm sorry, hon. You're right; these situations are so tiring and you're allowed your ups and downs. You are not super Human. There will be good days and there will be bad days. Be kind to yourself.
I totally understand where you're coming from, having an intellectual side that gets angry at your emotional side. It's no picnic, that's for sure. Hang in there.
To continue with the dissertation...
The constant criticisms told me that there was a LOT of unacceptable behavior and opinions in the world and I would have to tread carefully to avoid being unacceptable myself. This was important because my parents told us that a successful family was one where all the members were the same. And I needed to be the same as them or nobody would love me. See where I'm going here?
Also my parents really wanted a super popular, graceful, smart prom queen who beat the boys off with a stick. That's not me at all. But I did start dating at 14.
Fast forward to college and after... I lived life with SO many shoulds. I was depressed for a long time after I dumped the bad boyfriend and even briefly sought counseling, but I didn't keep it up. I was such a mess for a really long time. I thought I was pulling it together after but I was just papering it over. I didn't believe I was able to do the things I cared about, and I believed I ought to just know how to do things that, in reality, I needed to learn to do. I felt like I was going through the motions of being a real person, that everyone else had it together and I was bluffing my way through life.
All of this is to explain that For a very long time I was conscious of feeling like sludge at my core. when I fell in love with my H, and he loved me too, I thought my sludge had finally turned into gold.
Over time, for a number of reasons, my sludge turned back into sludge and it probably hurt my H too. Now I feel all that sludge again, just like I did before I met him, when I was 22.
Am I at square one?
I'm watching how people respond to me really closely again, back to beating myself up when they don't always respond to me positively, giving ten times more weight to one mildly negative interaction compared to 50 positive interactions, worrying way too much about other people's sandboxes, worrying that my H will never love me again and neither will anyone else.
What's wrong with me? Why am I back in this place? Surely I know better by now?
To continue with the dissertation...
The constant criticisms told me that there was a LOT of unacceptable behavior and opinions in the world and I would have to tread carefully to avoid being unacceptable myself. This was important because my parents told us that a successful family was one where all the members were the same. And I needed to be the same as them or nobody would love me. See where I'm going here?
Fast forward to college and after... I lived life with SO many shoulds. I was depressed for a long time after I dumped the bad boyfriend and even briefly sought counseling, but I didn't keep it up. I was such a mess for a really long time. I thought I was pulling it together after but I was just papering it over. I didn't believe I was able to do the things I cared about, and I believed I ought to just know how to do things that, in reality, I needed to learn to do. I felt like I was going through the motions of being a real person, that everyone else had it together and I was bluffing my way through life.
I'm watching how people respond to me really closely again, back to beating myself up when they don't always respond to me positively, giving ten times more weight to one mildly negative interaction compared to 50 positive interactions, worrying way too much about other people's sandboxes, worrying that my H will never love me again and neither will anyone else.
What's wrong with me? Why am I back in this place? Surely I know better by now?
Maybell, I could have written a lot of this post.
I too lived with a family that thought that we had to all be the same. I've been able to put that idea away, but perhaps too late for my WAW, who's terrified that her staying with me means we'll have a life like that of my parents, whom she despises. (And I'm no huge fan of them myself)
You've got to love and respect yourself before anyone else will. I didn't for much of my marriage and I'm reaping the whirlwind. They key to success here, whether that success is you piecing your M back together or moving on to your vision of a happy life without your H (both of these scenarios are success, in my book), is that you will love yourself regardless. Do that and you will attract people that truly enhance your life. And hopefully that includes your H.
It's very hard to remember that all the time. I slip up too, we all do. I have to deliberately remind myself that I am worthy of love and respect all on my own, whether my W thinks so or not. It seems contrived and artificial at first, but becomes more natural with time.
Grace and peace to you
Maybell, sometimes it suxx. But it will be better again.
I doubt that you're back at square 1, you just haven't dealt with everything you need to deal with around your family of origin. I wrote a post last week about how I thought I'd been failing miserably at letting go with S21 when in fact I had let go each time, just from a different place. It's a process, most things are.
My family history is much the same as you describe. Thinking of it now it gives me a cold shiver. Blech. Not that there weren't good times but the constant feeling of not being good enough overlays it all.
I realized some years ago that I had married my H, and his family, because they seemed so normal, almost TV quality normal.
No one ever raised their voice, everything always looked in place, very little outward show of emotion. Seemed so calm and peaceful. (of course I found they weren't as perfect as I thought, just different)
That was a big load to put on my H, to fix me, and I didn't even realize that was a part of the dynamic until I was ready to unpack all my family stuff.
We have to work through our stuff and sometimes we can only do it in manageable chunks otherwise it's too overwhelming.
So don't look at this as back at square 1, just a different starting point. If we plotted your progress on a graph, you'd be trending upward.
Trust the process. Ask yourself, what do I need to learn here?
I wrote a post last week about how I thought I'd been failing miserably at letting go with S21 when in fact I had let go each time, just from a different place.
I'm sorry I missed that part of your thread. I do try to follow yours too but I must have missed it.
I realized some years ago that I had married my H, and his family, because they seemed so normal, almost TV quality normal. smile No one ever raised their voice, everything always looked in place, very little outward show of emotion. Seemed so calm and peaceful. (of course I found they weren't as perfect as I thought, just different)
YES.
Then I realize 2-3 years in to our marriage how big a role drinking plays in his family. And his dad is HORRIBLE to his mom and when she stands up for herself and it turns into an argument all the kids flinch and say "She always walks into it, when is she going to learn to not goad him that way?"
My H told me to shut up one time, in a very contemptuous voice, when we'd been married about 2 years, and at first I laughed, like I deserved it, and then about 30 seconds later I realized what had happened and I raised a huge objection and he apologized and it never happened again. But it makes me wonder if the seeds are in there and he's just more controlled about not letting them out.
It's coming up on 2 years since he started the A. Almost a year and a half since I found out about it. No end in sight at all. I don't want to live like this for another year.
My friends are telling me that he's living awfully comfortably, that he got to just walk away from most of his responsibilities and left me holding the bag and covering everything, and that he's just going to continue to live like this until he gets a shock to realize that he's losing me or I give up and file so he doesn't have to be the bad guy. This seems accurate to me.
I really don't want to live like this anymore. Where I won't date because it goes against my values, but he dates if he wants to (or at least keeps that option open), doesn't have any financial ramifications to maintaining two households, and only has to show up for stuff when I tell or ask him to. He doesn't keep the kids' calendars, doesn't know any of their doctors or Scout contacts, to my knowledge hasn't signed up for school emails, and told me he'd "help" with the childcare (financially) when I got a job as though he were doing me some sort of favor.
Something needs to change. I feel like I'm in a holding pattern at his mercy and I can't live like that anymore. I don't want to be basing my life on whether or not he's going to change his mind about us. D11 just told me that he's gotten more furniture and set up his apartment for the long haul.
I don't want to divorce but I don't want to live like this anymore. What are my middle ground options? I have done this long enough. Beyond long enough. I feel like I'm going through BD all over again. How do I peel myself away from him?
Ask yourself, what do I need to learn here?
That I'm a valuable human who gets to determine her own worth based on her own criteria. That I will sometimes mess up but if I own my mistakes and they don't outnumber the good things I do then it's OK. That I'm sufficient on my own and that if I'm in a relationship with someone it ought to be mutually uplifting -- frosting for all.
If my H and I are over, then we're over. I can't make him see me as frosting if he's determined to see me as Spam.
I think it was on someone else's thread that I told the letting go experience.
You say you don't want to do this anymore, what's the alternative as you see it?
I will hazard a guess that your friends want you to be OK, then they can be OK. No one but your H knows what he's thinking or more importantly, feeling.
Your H had a crappy upbringing. He had poor role models. He may think he's just crap and not good enough for what he has. I would guess his need to work, work, work is part of that.(probably as accurate as the viewpoint of your friends.) He may never come out of it, but I can tell you this, if he does it won't be a quick, "I should have had a V-8" recovery.
You may not want to hang around for all that and that's fine but what is your plan for Maybell?
Often I would get caught up in my H's stuff to stop looking at me for a moment. So I spent time worrying about/blaming something I had no control over.
Take what you can use...
Ask yourself, what do I need to learn here?
That I'm a valuable human who gets to determine her own worth based on her own criteria. That I will sometimes mess up but if I own my mistakes and they don't outnumber the good things I do then it's OK. That I'm sufficient on my own and that if I'm in a relationship with someone it ought to be mutually uplifting -- frosting for all.
If my H and I are over, then we're over. I can't make him see me as frosting if he's determined to see me as Spam.
I think that last sentence is the crux. You can't make anyone see you as anything. It's like we keep waving our arms, "look at me, I'm over here, pick me."
Getting past that is a real point of growth. Your assessment of you should be enough. People can take it or leave it but you continue to be you because you are happy and secure in who you are.
I don't want to divorce him. I want to reunite. But that appears to not be my call.
I don't have a plan for myself but I don't want to live in limbo anymore. I want to be in a loving relationship or to be free to live in a loving relationship.
On the other hand, I'm so hyper attuned to other people's responses to me that I'm not sure I ought to be thinking about a relationship.
Honestly, I don't know how to make a plan for myself. I can't fathom myself truly alone. I have felt so alone for so much of my life with all the constant moving that the idea of being single is almost catastrophic.
People can take it or leave it but you continue to be you because you are happy and secure in who you are.
I almost wrote "except that I'm not."
But that's not quite accurate. The truth is, I'm lonely. I want to be with someone with whom I don't have to be constantly monitoring whether I'm good enough. Someone who I know for sure will give me the benefit of the doubt when I stumble.
At this moment, reading that I wrote that, I realize that's another way of saying "I want someone else to feed my sense of being enough," but I don't know how to accept myself stumbles and all. I don't trust myself yet, I guess.
You aren't done. (and that's OK)
I say that because people said it to me along my journey, which continues. Sometimes it p!ssed me off but it helped me in the long run.
Is there anything I can do to start getting my H interested in coming home?
And what do you mean by your last? That I'm not done growing? (Which I know) or that I'm not done with him?
Maybell, being single is not catastrophic, but wasting the rest of your life on someone who doesn't love you, stumbles and all, would be. You're right -- you don't need to look to others to complete you, and you might not be ready for a relationship until you feel whole within yourself. There's no rush, and no time line. You will evolve at your own pace. It's natural to feel lonely, to long for a partner -- we have all been there. But keep up the self-awareness and practicing gratitude for what you do have in your life, and look for ways to demonstrate to yourself you own sense of awesomeness and self-worth.
Is there anything I can do to start getting my H interested in coming home?
Maybell, do you think there is anything
you can do to interest your husband in coming home? I mean that sincerely, and not in a rhetorical way, as you know your husband better than any of us and better than you friends do. If so then I would say stay the course.
But if you think its more of a question of him needing to realize that the semi-bachelor/workaholic lifestyle may not be as satisfying as he thought - then there isn't anything you can do, short of consistenly showing him the better alternative of being a full part of your family again. And while most of us would say its obvious that the family life is better - theres always the possibility that for him its not.
Maybe its a moment to think about what you need vs what you want. You say you don't want to live like this anymore and that something needs to change. You obviously don't "need" your husband back (you're seem very capable without him), but you understandably "want" him. What do you really need at this juncture? Do you need some more structure in your situation (a formal, legal separation with his childcare responsibilities spelled out, etc). You have a lot of say in getting what you absolutely
need. Achieving what you
want at this juncture probably requires more change/input from him. Just my .02
Maybell - You've been there for a very long time and now you're exhausted. You must have turned every opportunity around in your head or at least feel like you did.
I'll just share a list of thoughts I had reading (and being touched by) your message.
- Reconciliation stories take on average 2 years. Letting go for real often seem to be part of the process.
- Make sure you don't underestimate or miss the positive signs.
- You can't live in limbo anymore? It's your call. Limbo is always hard, it's human nature. See if the relief is worth it.
- Are you on a no-dating policy because of your values or because deep down it feels like pulling away from your H?
- Do you have a plan written down, with objectives and monitoring as suggested in DR?
- You seem to set the bar for a partner at a height that your H currently can't clear. Is that on purpose?
No dating because of my values. I don't want to be hurtful to a 3rd party. Also I am anxious about my safety.
I realize the reconciliation stories take 2 years. I am approaching two years since he started betraying me (that I'm sure of), but it has been much longer than that since he behaved in a way that showed he was invested in our marriage.
I don't have a plan written down because I'm not sure what that should look like. Maybe that's something I should revisit.
I have the bar set at a height that he can't currently clear? Here's what I want: someone who wants to be around me, who seeks me out on his own without being nagged, who takes a personal interest in me and my well-being, and who enjoys my company. I understand HE can't meet that bar at this time, because he chooses not to. But is that really such a high bar?
(I do recognize that there are some valid reasons why he might choose not to: a) interest in fantasy OW; b) the way I hollered for so long when he wasn't participating in repairing the marriage after I found out about her; c) complete confusion about who he is and why he was vulnerable to an affair; d) the quiet pleasure of being a part-time dad in a posh downtown bachelor pad with very little responsibility; e) belief that he never satisfied me, because he can't remember what it was like when we were happy together; f) the fact that I did nag when we were drifting far apart because I didn't have better skills for such a long time and I was terribly, terribly lonely)
I'm not asking in a snarky way. I truly welcome input. I recognize that I'm not exactly clear-eyed in this area.
All my h talked about ever is the 5 years or so he thought things were perfect.
For me they were hard work meeting his every need not getting much back, he was lazy in doing the work in the r. I see that now, hence I gained 30+ kg and felt 100 years old and exhausted.
Not to mention every to e he wasn't happy he kicked the $hite out of me all night. Often I suspect on purpose. He denied doing it, but he was frequently awake. Or seemed to be.
That's I suspect a reasonable bar. It is what you would need in a new r? Right?
you left some things out of the bar comment that i'm sure you and the rest of us want:
ask about my day and be interested
say thank you for the simple things we do
mention the progress we have made on our foibles
not look at us like strangers
mention a good memory from us once in a blue moon
treat us as nice as you do strangers
pretend this is hard on you
smile at us in a genuine way
and many others...
Here's a thing I'm grateful for.
September 2013, while my H was traveling for work, the kids and I were in a car accident on the highway. We were stopped for traffic and a very heavy pick up truck slammed into us so hard that I bounced forward and hit the car in front of me pretty hard. D11 was in the back bench of the minivan and could have died, but had just a few tiny cuts on the back of her neck from flying glass.
We had to take a cab home and on the way another car got rear-ended and the kids and I all burst into tears. The car was totaled but we went home, snuggled on the couch, and probably had pizza for dinner. Fortunately my brother still lived in the area and he helped me collect things from the van when it was in the lot waiting for the repair estimate. A few weeks later I got a check from the insurance company and replaced my totaled minivan with the exact same model, three years newer. Because it had saved our lives.
I won't talk about H and that episode, except to say that that was when the wheels really came off. But I am so grateful we weren't hurt. Especially D11. When I think of that day and what could have been... There was no back end left to my car. It is a miracle she wasn't hurt. I am very blessed.
Wow, Maybell. I'm grateful for you, too.
There are several sitches on here that involve filing for D to force a change in the status quo.
I am not advocating this, but is it worth considering? Would filing "shock" him into finally Stepping up and reevaluating his actions? It is a risky proposition. Is the risk worth the reward?
No. I don't have that in me.
Is there anything I can do to start getting my H interested in coming home?
And what do you mean by your last? That I'm not done growing? (Which I know) or that I'm not done with him?
I'm going to let you figure that out for you.
Here's a thing I'm grateful for.
September 2013, while my H was traveling for work, the kids and I were in a car accident on the highway. We were stopped for traffic and a very heavy pick up truck slammed into us so hard that I bounced forward and hit the car in front of me pretty hard. D11 was in the back bench of the minivan and could have died, but had just a few tiny cuts on the back of her neck from flying glass.
We had to take a cab home and on the way another car got rear-ended and the kids and I all burst into tears. The car was totaled but we went home, snuggled on the couch, and probably had pizza for dinner. Fortunately my brother still lived in the area and he helped me collect things from the van when it was in the lot waiting for the repair estimate. A few weeks later I got a check from the insurance company and replaced my totaled minivan with the exact same model, three years newer. Because it had saved our lives.
I won't talk about H and that episode, except to say that that was when the wheels really came off. But I am so grateful we weren't hurt. Especially D11. When I think of that day and what could have been... There was no back end left to my car. It is a miracle she wasn't hurt. I am very blessed.
What's the mention about H and then "I won't talk about H."
I'm grateful that you were all physically uninjured.
There are several sitches on here that involve filing for D to force a change in the status quo.
I am not advocating this, but is it worth considering? Would filing "shock" him into finally Stepping up and reevaluating his actions? It is a risky proposition. Is the risk worth the reward?
Being Dd is definitely a change in the status quo!
How does that game help anyone?