http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2503564&page=11Opening a new thread before the old one locks. Seems like it's time anyway, as a new chapter starts tomorrow.
So the rest of yesterday was ok. I offered H some extra kitchen stuff and we went through the cabinets and boxed up what I was willing to give away. I also gave him a few decorative items and some extra paintings. But this morning I noticed that he had taken one I didn't say he could have, a painting that my D12 had done. I had been rearranging some artwork throughout the house because of new purchases over the summer and I had hers off the wall but with a place in mind for it to go, I just hadn't done it yet. If he doesn't give it back I'll be pissed. I realize he has as much right to it as I do but I want it.
Yesterday H and I were driving by his new apartment, it's a place that I will be passing almost daily. He asked if I wanted to see it. I politely declined. I just don't want anything to do with a place I know the duck will be. It feels contaminated to me. I don't know how those of you that eat dinner at your WAS's places do it
The dividing of the "stuff" was very difficult for me. It seems like you've managed it well so far, up until this particular painting. I wasn't sure by your post.. but did you specifically ask him for it back, or are you hoping/assuming he will give it back? Expectations are resentments waiting to happen, remember? Before getting pissed, make sure he knows you actually want it and discuss why. Is there something else he has or could have that has sentimental value regarding your D? Back in my threads (probably right around when you registered) I had a huge meltdown about a clock, of all things, that H and I had a big fight over who would get it. At the time it seemed like the end of the world.. now I don't think about it very much. Time and perspective helps. Labug had some good things to say during that time
It's completely, 100% OK for you to not visit or want to see his place. When H and I have to exchange things or he finds something I forgot to take with me, I arrange to meet him at a neutral place, which has worked well for me.
Thanks KGirl. At the time I posted, I had not yet asked for it back. But then I did, and he said he'd bring it back. And then I offered him a couple of different prints in return.
He really isn't taking that much. I offered the kitchen stuff, the paintings, a lamp, a pillow. He's not taking any of the furniture, even though I offered a couple of things. H is not one to decorate in hand me downs, he spent quite a bit of $$ at the furniture store last weekend and it all got delivered Friday. The only thing I really wanted to keep that he's taking is a handmade glass bowl. The glass artist is a friend of H's, and I said he should take it, even though I really wanted it. Small stuff.
There was one item that I suggested H take because it was something he owned before we even met and he'd had it at every place he's ever lived. So I told him to take it. And then D16 came home and asked where it was and was upset that H had taken it. I made it clear it was my doing, but she still didn't like it. I guess there are going to be things like that crop up for some time.
I'm feeling for you today, rpp. I had to get out of town the day my W moved out. Take care of yourself and know that you're in control of your own life
hugs your way rpp.
Stay strong.
Thanks for the thoughts today! This morning was a regular morning, just like any other. Except my D16 had an appointment for training on her new Dexcom. And there' a calibration requirement for it, which wasn't going to work out with her school lunch period. So I ended up dropping her at home, which is not at all what I intended since H was there packing up. She says she didn't mind, that she'd just go in her room and shut the door, and I didn't even go in the house, just dropped her off and came to work. But I'm gonna see him later at D12's basketball game anyway. Going dark is going to take some real effort on my behalf.
Update: H just texted me asking about the Dexcom appointment. I'm going to have to reply. Oy vey!
rpp,
This will feel weird for a while. I've been separated for three months and the "normal" interactions that STBX and I have about homework assignments, etc., always throw me off balance because there's such a gaping cognitive dissonance between the tone of these interactions and the tone of the overall situation. I'm sure it gets better.
rpp,
This will feel weird for a while. I've been separated for three months and the "normal" interactions that STBX and I have about homework assignments, etc., always throw me off balance because there's such a gaping cognitive dissonance between the tone of these interactions and the tone of the overall situation. I'm sure it gets better.
I'm sure it will. H probably doesn't think it's weird at all. It's just that in my head I was thinking, oh, it will be at least a few days before I really have to talk to him again. And then he texts me about something he could have asked D16. And he probably did, and she blew him off.
I waited 15 minutes and then answered his question about the appointment. He didn't respond after that.
What an awkward week this is going to be.
It's going to be awkward for more than a week.
Always look for the best in each interaction. Be careful about reading tone, inflection or intent into TM.
TM is a double edged sword. To me it helps with detaching, but it also leaves me wondering about emotion and tone.
It does not matter how little or how much he is taking. Your house is going to seem empty.
My thoughtless MIL dropped my boys off on moving day 2 hours before I got home. S10 and S13 were there alone for 2 hours. When I got home they were wandering around the house with blank stares talking about how empty the house was. It took some time to make them realize very little was missing and it was still our home.
It does not matter how little or how much he is taking. Your house is going to seem empty.
bdub, sorry that happened to your boys.
I'm heading home in a moment to pick up something before D12's basketball game. I hope my house doesn't look depressing.
Thanks rpp. It killed me to find them like that, but it turned into a very powerful bonding moment for us, and has sort of been a springboard to a new, stronger relationship.
Expect the worst. The sound of an empty room because pictures have been removed from the walls makes it seem emptier than it really is.
So.....a new chapter begins. Yesterday afternoon I had the misfortune for H to still be at home when I stopped by before the basketball game. He said how hard he had been working moving things. (Poor baby.) He left the house and D16 refused to come out of her room to talk to him. I felt a little teary at that point, but didn't actually cry.
We got to the basketball game at the same time, and ended up sitting together. He was obviously squirming in discomfort with a tight back muscle, and asked me if I had put a hex on him. I said, no, not yet, I was saving that for later.
After the game, we said a brief goodbye in the parking lot, and then had no contact the rest of the evening or this morning.
BUT, the girls and I went out to dinner at a place we've never been, and then went shopping around the mall a bit. D16 and I each added a piercing to our ear (3rd for each), and I bought D12 some earrings. We went home, and D12 wanted to make milkshakes, so she made us all shakes and we watched the end of the Heat game on tv. They both told me what a nice evening they'd had. That was the goal.
H left odds and ends on his dresser and on his sink/counter (which is in a different area than mine). I put all his stuff away in a drawer so he can collect it later if he wants it, and put some decorative items in each place. I think it looks nice. I have quite a few little house projects in mind, nothing major, just making things the way I want them.
H picked up D12 for school today, I am happy he's still willing to take her. It's good for her and good for me. He will take her tomorrow also, then leaves to go out of town. We have already talked about what time he will pick up D12 when he gets back on Saturday, and there's no reason for us to be in contact. So.......wish me luck, folks. Going dark will be hard for me.
I'm just going to put this out there...don't be afraid to feel ALL your feelings around this. Sometimes there's a bit of relief in there that we don't think we "should" feel, so we deny it.
labug is right. I felt pretty guilty about feeling relieved that my W had finally moved.
It's even ok to pat yourself on the back for making it as far as you have!
I'm just going to put this out there...don't be afraid to feel ALL your feelings around this. Sometimes there's a bit of relief in there that we don't think we "should" feel, so we deny it.
I don't know what I feel right now. H has always traveled a lot on business, so being at home with just me and the kids is not new. But not talking to him is new. We have always said goodnight and good morning to each other, filled each other in on things. Going to bed last night without hearing from him was different. I don't necessarily feel negative about it, but it was different. And as the days of no contact stretch on, I don't know what feelings might come up.
Right now there's no sense of relief. There's no sadness. There's no particular happiness, although I had a good time with my girls last night, it wasn't happiness that H had left. There's a sense of walking through a door, although that's not fully formed yet. I've tried to wrap my head around three girls living in a house where just a few months ago three girls and two guys lived. I've tried to wrap my head around being a "single mom". I'm not really there yet on either of those.
So, for today, I'm just sitting with almost no emotion. I'm sure it will come, and I'm prepared to feel whatever it turns out to be.
It's even ok to pat yourself on the back for making it as far as you have!
You know, bdub, I am in fact happy with the way I handled moving day. I sat with H at the basketball game and made small talk, gave him an appropriate goodbye in the parking lot. I'm proud that I created a happy memory for my girls on what could have been an emotional evening at home.
Right now I'm trying to look at the S as a gift of time to figure out what I want. Because if he said next week he wanted to move back in, I'd probably say yes. And that would be a mistake. I'm not strong enough, not sure enough of myself yet. I'd go back to getting trampled all over, which wouldn't make either of us happy, and my would girls see it, too. Not what I want for them, and they are my primary concern right now.
I know that feeling all to well. After last night's spewing session i woke up this morning just void of any emotion. Scary part about that is, nature abhors a void and will usually fill it pretty darn quick and to the brim.
You got this. Hang tight.
[quote=rppfl
Right now I'm trying to look at the S as a gift of time to figure out what I want. Because if he said next week he wanted to move back in, I'd probably say yes. And that would be a mistake. I'm not strong enough, not sure enough of myself yet. I'd go back to getting trampled all over, which wouldn't make either of us happy, and my would girls see it, too. Not what I want for them, and they are my primary concern right now. [/quote]
Wonderful insight. You are in a good spot right now, and I'm guessing you will make the most of it!
Every day those "wobbly legs" will get stronger and you will eventually get to where you need to be. You are an amazing person and have done a wonderful job so far. Keep it up!
I'm just going to put this out there...don't be afraid to feel ALL your feelings around this. Sometimes there's a bit of relief in there that we don't think we "should" feel, so we deny it.
I don't know what I feel right now. H has always traveled a lot on business, so being at home with just me and the kids is not new. But not talking to him is new. We have always said goodnight and good morning to each other, filled each other in on things. Going to bed last night without hearing from him was different. I don't necessarily feel negative about it, but it was different. And as the days of no contact stretch on, I don't know what feelings might come up.
Right now there's no sense of relief. There's no sadness. There's no particular happiness, although I had a good time with my girls last night, it wasn't happiness that H had left. There's a sense of walking through a door, although that's not fully formed yet. I've tried to wrap my head around three girls living in a house where just a few months ago three girls and two guys lived. I've tried to wrap my head around being a "single mom". I'm not really there yet on either of those.
So, for today, I'm just sitting with almost no emotion. I'm sure it will come, and I'm prepared to feel whatever it turns out to be.
Awesome reply!
Life is a river.
I know that feeling all to well. After last night's spewing session i woke up this morning just void of any emotion.
Jefe, I went and caught up on your thread. Yeah, that was something. Hoping today is better for you.
Journaling: if you thought my limbo posts were boring, just wait for the S posts. I have absolutely nothing to say. We exchanged a couple of emails yesterday about a birthday party D12 has been invited to this weekend, which is his first weekend with her. All business. And last night H and D12 were face-timing in the same room I was sitting and H asked where "everyone" was. D12 said D16 is in her room, and mom is right here and turned the phone to show me. H said, "hi mom" and I said "hey" and that was the end. Exciting, no?
I had a brief moment this morning that I was slightly disappointed that he hadn't initiated any contact with me at all, didn't bother to ask how I was doing. Wouldn't you want to know that your W and kids were OK by themselves? But truth is he hasn't asked about how I was doing in a really long time, so I suppose this is nothing new.
Mostly I don't really feel anything.
You're never boring, my friend.
He knew how you were doing, at least as much as he needed to know. He talked with D, he saw you.
You feel nothing? Or nothing as it relates to H?
You feel nothing? Or nothing as it relates to H?
Nothing as it relates to H. I'm not numb in general. I'm content around the house, happy to be at home last night making a pot of chili for dinner, excited and nervous about my last basketball game tonight. I just don't feel much for him.
That's good.
When people show us who they are, we should believe them. Thanks, Maya Angelou.
That's good.
When people show us who they are, we should believe them. Thanks, Maya Angelou.
I have a quote in my office: "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true."
I spent way too long believing what I wanted to believe instead of my reality. I sincerely was blindsided about H's A in April, totally blown away, but in the 7 months since, I see how far I had my head buried in the sand before that. I wonder if I had been more attuned to our M, if I had been paying more attention, if I hadn't lived in such a prefect family fantasy, if I had caught the A in the early stages, where would we be now? Would he have given it up if I had caught it early enough? I don't know.
If he had given it up, I most likely would have just shoved it all under the rug like I have done so many times before. I doubt we'd have done any MC, and IC. And then I'd end up here anyway, the only difference is timing. Maybe. Who knows.
And I can't help but think that I'm better off now, I have a much clearer picture of who I am and who he is. And I don't know that we belong together anymore. I'm not going to question whether we ever did, it doesn't matter now, and I have three great children to show for it in any case. But I am interested to see what happens in the next 4 months.
That's such a great attitude.
You can now make different choices because of who you are now. I hope you make yourself a priority.
Journaling: if you thought my limbo posts were boring, just wait for the S posts. I have absolutely nothing to say. We exchanged a couple of emails yesterday about a birthday party D12 has been invited to this weekend, which is his first weekend with her. All business. And last night H and D12 were face-timing in the same room I was sitting and H asked where "everyone" was. D12 said D16 is in her room, and mom is right here and turned the phone to show me. H said, "hi mom" and I said "hey" and that was the end. Exciting, no?
Rpp,
I just wanted to say that I am looking forward to your posts in the next months detailing
your life. You are much more interesting to me than just your interactions with your H.
Rpp,
I just wanted to say that I am looking forward to your posts in the next months detailing your life. You are much more interesting to me than just your interactions with your H.
Thanks. You and labug are too kind.
When H and I finalized our S agreement, I asked him if he preferred a particular "other weekend" for D12 to visit, assuming the duck had children, I didn't know for sure. The answer was yes, he did have a preference, and so it turns out that this weekend will be his first with D12 at his new place. It also turns out that H is out of town until Saturday, cutting out the Thursday, Friday, and half of Saturday that he will normally have. I originally had something planned for Saturday, but decided to cancel because I would have had to leave early in the morning and didn't want to give up the half day with D12.
I won't be there when H comes to pick her up Saturday, I'll be in the power cage, DL-ing away my frustrations. But I need to come up with something to do on Saturday evening. H will be playing in a concert at church, D12 will be there, but I am not going.
I have decided to go to church Sunday morning so I can sit with D12, and then decline our normal breakfast together. Not sure what kind of excuse I can come up with, though. I will pass on a church social event that I know H will attend in the afternoon, and then take D16 to the Heat game Sunday night.
Two things I want to do are get a new haircut and do a little clothes shopping, get a new outfit that's out of my norm. Those two things should take up some time.
I have no doubt this will get easier as time goes on. But until then, I can always clean something, right?
Hey Rpp,
Are you a craftsy person at all? Having a craft type of hobby that you can pick up and work on any time you have some unexpected free time can be both soothing and productive (I'm a quilter and embroiderer).
Didn't you say way back on an earlier thread that you once considered doing some writing? Now it looks like you might have some time :-)
Are you a craftsy person at all? Having a craft type of hobby that you can pick up and work on any time you have some unexpected free time can be both soothing and productive (I'm a quilter and embroiderer).
Didn't you say way back on an earlier thread that you once considered doing some writing? Now it looks like you might have some time :-)
Well, raliced, interesting question about the crafty stuff. I used to enjoy it quite a bit, one of the things I liked was cross-stitch. H was always annoyed at my cross-stitch projects, said they "took up too much room". The last thing I attempted was a tablecloth for my mom, it was complicated and it was taking me a long time, I had two young children at the time. H continually complained about it, told me I would never finish it, pressured me to give it away. I eventually did. And I haven't cross-stitched since. Maybe I'll look into doing something for Christmas.
And yes, I did talk about writing. You are right, now is the time!
Clean the heck out of everything. Little projects will present themselves. Things you have been putting off for years. Now is the time to take care of them. Cross them off the list!
There's always something to clean, isn't there, bdub?
Another day of NC with H. But D16 told me an interesting text exchange she had with her dad. He had texted her, I don't know the exact words, but something to the effect of he loved her and had not abandoned her and he wanted to work on their relationship. She texted back that he had in fact abandoned all of us, what kind of woman (the duck) would (sleep with - she used a different word) a married man and encourage him to leave his wife and kids, and what kind of man would want to be with a woman like that? I have to admit, all that has crossed my mind, although I've never said it to him or to D16 either. She's old enough and clever enough to figure that out. He didn't reply after that. I just wonder how fabulous the duck must be to give up his relationship with his daughter for.
The girls and I went shopping for Thanksgiving food pantry drive stuff together, had dinner, then D12 and I had a basketball game, the last one of the season, a win. Playoffs start Sunday.
I have a meeting I need to get to, hope everyone has a great day.
Labug, how can it not be about the duck? Why else would he destroy his R with his own daughter? Had he simply left, she wouldn't feel this way.
In MC, he told me that he never would have done the BD, never would have left, had it not been for the duck. I believe him.
I understand that you are saying he was unhappy before he decided to cheat. I get that. But once he made that decision to actually scr#w the duck, and to leave us all to pursue something with her, then it became about her.
She texted back that he had in fact abandoned all of us, what kind of woman (the duck) would (sleep with - she used a different word) a married man and encourage him to leave his wife and kids, and what kind of man would want to be with a woman like that
Wow! Out of the mouths of babes. You go girl! Rpp, I don't think you need to worry about that one to much in the future, she's got her head on straight. I mean, that is so simple and truthful I am having to sit back and ponder that one in my own situation.
What needed to be said just got said and you didn't have to do it, good for her.
Rpp, I am standing right here beside you today. I may have tears streaming down my face, but I'm standing none the less. I prayed long and hard about your husband yesterday. Stand strong. Your obviously doing something right in your home, look at your daughters.
Have a blessed day.
My D16 has always been older than her years. I've always said that would serve her well someday, perhaps that day has come. But my heart breaks for her that her daddy rock and protector has let her down so dreadfully. Another thing she said to him was that he was not the man she always thought he was. That's sad that a little girl believes that about her dad.
Thanks for the prayers Jefe. I don't even pray specifically for R anymore. I just turn it all over and trust that God's plan for me is better than what I could have come up with myself, that what was meant for my harm He will use for my good. I do pray for my H, though, just not for my M.
Labug, how can it not be about the duck? Why else would he destroy his R with his own daughter? Had he simply left, she wouldn't feel this way.
In MC, he told me that he never would have done the BD, never would have left, had it not been for the duck. I believe him.
I understand that you are saying he was unhappy before he decided to cheat. I get that. But once he made that decision to actually scr#w the duck, and to leave us all to pursue something with her, then it became about her.
It's about him and his inability to be happy, his need to blame his unhappiness on you, his need to berate you to feel better about himself, his need to have another woman bolster his lagging self esteem, his inability to say no when temptation came his way.
While I get the "what kind of a woman would..." I also have to ask, "what kind of a married man with children would...and why"
I understand your D not wanting to go there about her Father, I can't imagine how that must feel for her.
You don't know this about me unless you read my very early posts. I had a hot and heavy EA very early in my M. (Yes, in 37 years we have covered almost every marital issue you could possibly have.) He was married and had 4 children and a history of infidelity. He was handsome, had money, took me nice places, bought me things. The only reason it didn't become a PA was because I got scared, turning physical meant to me I was REALLY cheating. See how our minds can make things OK. Up until that I was just "playing" at cheating.
I could hem and haw and blame my H for things he wasn't doing but the truth is, I was in that EA because of the way it made me feel. It wasn't a deficiency in my H, it was a deficiency in me. There was a hole in my soul that it took me years to figure out and heal.
I think it was on your thread a while back that I said I wouldn't be in a R with someone I had to keep tabs on, part of that is because I know how easy it is to get away with things and if someone wants to cheat, they're going to cheat. If fidelity isn't a part of a person's character, it just isn't. It can become a part of their character but an affair is like a drug. You want that hit no matter the consequence, in fact the illicit nature of the A makes it more exciting.
Make no mistake tho, I made a choice every time I had contact with him, knowing what I was risking.
So in conclusion, the A blew up in a dramatic fashion, both spouses found out, we went back to our respective spouses but did keep in contact for a while.
I have not strayed into that territory again because I realized what kind of man I was married to and that I had hurt him very deeply. I made fidelity a value I lived. We were able to recover from that but it did take time. Have I been tested along the way? Yes.
So that's a long way around to explain why I say, it's not about the duck.
^^^^ GREAT post, Labug. Thanks for your input because it helps more than the person you're addressing it to.
My D16 has always been older than her years. I've always said that would serve her well someday, perhaps that day has come. But my heart breaks for her that her daddy rock and protector has let her down so dreadfully. Another thing she said to him was that he was not the man she always thought he was. That's sad that a little girl believes that about her dad.
rpp-
I just wanted to say that this
might have a silver lining. Realizing that our heroes aren't perfect and that all human beings have faults and foibles is a healthy thing, I think.
That being said, I certainly sympathize. I watch D6 and wonder what is going through her mind right now....
an affair is like a drug. You want that hit no matter the consequence, in fact the illicit nature of the A makes it more exciting.
I understand the addiction aspect, but how could you possibly let it interfere with your R with your children? I'm imagining that I had an A, moved out and then had that exchange with my D. Once she told me she felt abandoned, I'd come running home tail between my legs and spend the next five years sucking up to her and repairing what I'd ruined. I swear I would.
Yes it's hard to imagine any man getting that text from his D and not crawling home on his knees.
an affair is like a drug. You want that hit no matter the consequence, in fact the illicit nature of the A makes it more exciting.
I understand the addiction aspect, but how could you possibly let it interfere with your R with your children? I'm imagining that I had an A, moved out and then had that exchange with my D. Once she told me she felt abandoned, I'd come running home tail between my legs and spend the next five years sucking up to her and repairing what I'd ruined. I swear I would.
Are you sure that you understand the addiction aspect? To me, this point about drugs is hugely important to understand the WAS. They are no more in control of themselves than a junkie is. Imagine the A like a source of air. They HAVE to run to it or they suffocate. I could see it on my W. Her face would turn to stone when I would interfere (I was not aware of the A then) and I couldn't understand why. Junkies neglect their children, obviously. People in an A will justify it anyway they want, regardless of reasons or consequences, because they're addicted. It's their source of pleasure, of dopamine. Don't think that they'll have a sense of duty to their children stronger than their addiction. It can only wear off over time. Any drug wears off. Then we'll see where the chips may fall.
It certainly sounds like your daughter has a strong mind and is able to stand up for what she believes in. Kudos to you for that!
an affair is like a drug. You want that hit no matter the consequence, in fact the illicit nature of the A makes it more exciting.
I understand the addiction aspect, but how could you possibly let it interfere with your R with your children? I'm imagining that I had an A, moved out and then had that exchange with my D. Once she told me she felt abandoned, I'd come running home tail between my legs and spend the next five years sucking up to her and repairing what I'd ruined. I swear I would.
You're trying to understand using a rational brain, there is no answer that will be understandable. I had no children at the time, I was 25 and thought I was teflon. I had a lot of growing up to do before I had kids.
It's not a physical addiction so I use that description loosely but an A lights up centers in your brain. I think the deluded thought process is "It'll all work out. Yes, it may be ugly for awhile but it will all work out."
Have you ever you been close to an addict. If they have children, family, they love them but the pull of the drug is so strong they make very bad decisions, decisions that have negative consequences for all involved.
Have you ever you been close to an addict. If they have children, family, they love them but the pull of the drug is so strong they make very bad decisions, decisions that have negative consequences for all involved.
Yes, I have. My former boss is a recovering alcoholic and we worked very closely together. I was his right-hand man for years, he depended totally on me. Until the day that his alcohol became a problem and I sent him to rehab. It wasn't his family that sent him, it was me. His sons were adults at the time, not living at home. I do know that much later he told me that rehab saved his relationship with one of his children in particular. So I'll have to think about that.
And to clarify, addicts NEED the hit or they get physically ill.
Your H and the duck just WANT it.
And to clarify, addicts NEED the hit or they get physically ill.
Your H and the duck just WANT it.
And there you have hit on my entire issue. H wants the duck more than he wants his daughter. And I have a huge problem with that. Huge.
RPP,
I want to share you a story about one of my late father's affairs that will make your blood boil.
During one Thanksgiving holiday, I flew in to spend the time with my family. Dad? At that time, he was full-on deep into his A with the OW he was involved with and HE chose not to spend Thanksgiving with me. Where was he? Yup, with the OW and her husband at THEIR house.
That demonstrates the extent of the foggy thinking displayed by affair partners. They'll slink off into some other room to phone or text the OM/OW.
Take me for instance. I had my own OW while in the midst of my own MLC chit and I was a world champion smartphone hogger. I was deep in my own fog. Wow. People who are normally rational become irrational overnight when there's OW/OM. All we thought was getting our next "hit" of the dopamine.
Not too different to meth heads. They're NOT right in their heads. Seriously.
And getting the next "hit" was a distraction from dwelling on my own misery. Think about it, RPP.
Wonka, You couldn't be more right about what you wrote above. My WAW has said things to the OMW that takes a lot B**ls to say but that is how she needs to be to hang onto OM.
The shame of it is from what the OMW tells me my W is being used by OM in her opinion.
I have no control over that and it is her choice but it makes me wonder if OM wasn't in picture would my W be willing to work on things or is she that "done" that even if there was no OM it still wouldn't mean she would be receptive to a renewed M with me.
Wonks and Mozzarella, both excellent points. Rpp, you have to remember that he is very ill and until he comes out of the fog the sickness will linger.
I can say without a doubt that my wife and I were getting very close to working this thing out and piecing until OM2 entered the picture. The very day she met this guy her entire demeanor changed she threatened divorce the first time 3 days later. It's powerful. Just last week I watched her come late on Saturday to pick them up because of an "accident". There was no accident, she had to stop by his house and drop off a gift for him that he promptly posted on FB, then she finagled and schemed with her boss to get Monday night off so she could play pool with him, but that following Saturday she was a no show to get them because she had to "work late".
Powerful stuff.
He's not ill, he's making a choice.
Bug,
You had your own OM...remember how that clouded your thinking? That is what I mean by not being right in their head. Mind you, I am not suggesting that they're ill any more than the next person choosing meth or OW/OM. The pull of the next "fix" is very powerful until YOU decide to end it...right?
I was responding to Jefe. My thinking may have been clouded but in the moment I was functioning just fine. As I said, I didn't need the fix, I wanted it.
I was making a choice and I knew it.
Saying I was ill is disrespectful to people who are really ill. Some people in As may be depressed but that's another issue. It wasn't mine at the time.
That came later.
YMMV
Bug,
Thanks for explaining your own experience. I went back to my post and in no shape, manner or fashion did I say you or someone was "ill." Simply said that not right in their head as in clouded thinking.
For me, I appeared to function fine. Oh yeah...I too very much WANTED that "fix" as well. With that mindset, we're not thinking clearly or rationally. As you stand now, you are more self-aware not to seek out another OM. As I would not do so either. Simply because we've been to that other side and KNOW how it impacted our thought process.
I would hope that you did not feel disrespected by my earlier comments nor was that my intention. Ever.
Peace, sistah!
Wonka, as I said, I was responding to Jefe. I'm not sure where the confusion came from.
I don't feel disrespected by anything that's been posted.
Perhaps I should have said, "if I say I was ill..." but again, I was responding to Jefe's post.
Ahhhaaa....I now see that Jefe made the comment and you responded to it, Bug. Oooops! Sheesh...time for reading glasses???
Bug, I agree with you. It is still a choice.
And getting the next "hit" was a distraction from dwelling on my own misery. Think about it, RPP.
This I can understand. I just don't get putting your own happiness in front of your kids. I will probably just never comprehend that.
And that was one great holiday story Wonka.
But all the WAS's on this forum have put their own "happiness" ahead of their kids... (I don't believe actions that desperate can lead to actual happiness, either. It's more like the doomed pursuit of happiness...)
Please excuse me if this is a hijack, but it seems the appropriate place for this. I need some input from you strong ladies.
What I am frustrated most by, today, is that my kids both melted down about mommy being gone. They both expressed missing her but clearly expressed missing her being at home with us, not just wanting to go visit. I do the best I can at comforting them without projecting my anger about the situation on them. She has said repeatedly that they are just fine, or they will be just fine. I feel like she just discounts their emotions about the whole thing.
My question is 2 part.
1) I just don't know sometimes what to tell a 5 and 7 year old about what is going on.
2) I have yet to figure out a way to explain to my wife that the kids miss her HERE AT THE HOUSE and not JUST miss her, without coming across as manipulative, bashing, or condescending.
Thoughts?
Well, here's my pile of nothing for today. H and I exchanged an email about D12's basketball schedule. Woo hoo. He's apparently very good at NC, but apparently, I am, too.
I did have some rollercoaster emotions yesterday, as evidenced by my posts, but it was all about my kids and feeling that they were getting mistreated. And maybe a little wallowing in the victim myself, feeling that I have been mistreated. But I don't miss H, I have to say. I'm not happy he's gone, but I just don't miss him. Maybe if I were truly on my own I'd feel differently. But I know that he's still paying the bills, he'd still come over and take care of the house if I needed. There's a safety net there. And I'm grateful for that.
H is out of town right now, he gets back tomorrow, and then D12 starts her first weekend at dad's new place. I'm glad it worked out this way, and she didn't go on Thursday. It should be an interesting weekend.
RPP there have been a lot of really good posts about the mindset of a WAS in an A.
Be careful about allowing D16 to speak to her dad that way. Now, more than ever, she needs guidance and wisdom. You are that source. Now is a chance to show her how to take the high road; how a mature responsible adult should behave.
He is going to hear your voice in those msgs from D16. He is going to blame you for "brainwashing" her. Is he going to see the light from the lighthouse? Does the road home appear to be smooth and paved?
He is going to hear your voice in those msgs from D16. He is going to blame you for "brainwashing" her.
That's a good point, bdub, and I have thought of that. But 1)she's not getting it from me, she has come up with all that on her own, 2) H and I both knew her likely reaction before we told the kids, and 3)if she hadn't told me, I wouldn't know about it. I don't know that I want to reprimand her when she's trying to be open with me. If H feels disrespected, then he needs to deal with her directly on that, just like I would if she spewed at me.
Is he going to see the light from the lighthouse? Does the road home appear to be smooth and paved?
At the moment, yes. He knows I didn't want him to go, and I've said nothing to indicate otherwise in the past three days. Our few e-mails have been about D12's schedule and all business. I have done nothing to make him think he wouldn't be welcomed home should he choose. We have been S less than a week, this is a work in progress.
Let's see what he thinks when he shows up for Thanksgiving and notices the things I did to the house.
Sorry, I didnt mean to reprimand her. Her being open and honest with you is a good thing. I was thinking more along the lines of helping her sort through this issue and deal with her anger and emotions.
My S13 reacted the same way as your D16. My WAW immediately blamed me because to her, S13 could have never come up with those ideas on his own.
Got it, bdub.
H and I exchanged a couple emails about the schedule for the upcoming weekend and for Thanksgiving. Tomorrow is the first day D12 will spend the night at his new place. I asked him if he had gotten a list of things that he and I had talked about previously to make D12's life easier - toothbrush, toothpaste, hairbrush, etc. I shouldn't have brought it up again, but I did. And he hasn't done anything about it. So now I'm in the position of either 1) sending her without a hairbrush (etc.), knowing that she needs one; 2) buying her one to take over there, or 3) sending the one from home and hope I get it back. My belief is that the chances he will take care of it are slim to none, considering he's flying in tomorrow morning, and I know what he has on his calendar the rest of the day. I should have kept my mouth shut and let him deal with it.
rpp,
You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised. STBX thought of this stuff all on his own and purchased toothbrushes, hairbrushes, detangling spray, pajamas and appropriately sized underwear without me having to say it.
You might let D12 make the decision about the hairbrush.
rpp,
You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised. STBX thought of this stuff all on his own and purchased toothbrushes, hairbrushes, detangling spray, pajamas and appropriately sized underwear without me having to say it.
You might let D12 make the decision about the hairbrush.
Raliced, it's more than the hairbrush, it's everything you mentioned and more. I sat down and made a list with D12 a couple of weeks ago, told H she had the list, then asked him again last weekend. I just shouldn't have brought it up a third time today. I guess he'll figure it out when it's bedtime and the kid can't brush her teeth. We shall see what happens. I guess it won't kill her either way.
Got it, bdub.
H and I exchanged a couple emails about the schedule for the upcoming weekend and for Thanksgiving. Tomorrow is the first day D12 will spend the night at his new place. I asked him if he had gotten a list of things that he and I had talked about previously to make D12's life easier - toothbrush, toothpaste, hairbrush, etc. I shouldn't have brought it up again, but I did. And he hasn't done anything about it. So now I'm in the position of either 1) sending her without a hairbrush (etc.), knowing that she needs one; 2) buying her one to take over there, or 3) sending the one from home and hope I get it back. My belief is that the chances he will take care of it are slim to none, considering he's flying in tomorrow morning, and I know what he has on his calendar the rest of the day. I should have kept my mouth shut and let him deal with it.
Let him stand on his own 2 feet.
From the male perspective:
What you are doing is belittling him, meddling in their relationship and being overbearing. Maybe even being controlling.
He will either take care of it or fall on his face. His choice.
In my case, I did it differently, but that does not mean it was wrong.
What you are doing is belittling him, meddling in their relationship and being overbearing. Maybe even being controlling. He will either take care of it or fall on his face. His choice.
Got it. That's why I said I shouldn't have brought it up a third time. This is her first weekend there and I am nervous about it.
Look RPP....I don't think he's going to set the house on fire. As long as there's no real danger, your D will be just fine there. Relax, baby.
I could write a Seinfield script based on your reaction! LOL. The episode will be called "
The Brush."
I could write a Seinfield script based on your reaction! LOL. The episode will be called "
The Brush."
Bwahahaha! But Wonka, you know I need things to be perfect.
Guess that's a thing of the past.
I've been in a similar situation. .. and lately I've been trying to remember that the way I learned most of the things that make me a decent mom is by screwing them up once or twice. So, now that my H is spending much more solo time with our D (like i did when I was a SAHM), he will probably make a lot of mistakes too. It's ok. Nobody is dying from forgetting to brush their teeth one time.
Let him make his own mistakes and learn from them on his own.
Thank you Claire. I've been doing this with/for my kids for nearly 20 years, it's hard to give up. If it had been about the house I'd have mentioned it once and then let the house fall down before I said it again.
my kids are where the controlling RPP surfaces. At least I have you guys to point that out now.
So today is the day. The first day D12 spends time with H at his new place. We have basketball practice and then he picks her up after lunch. D16 is not going but her bf is in town so I don't expect to see her much.
I have a haircut appointment and a long list of errands and house stuff. Not exciting but it will keep me busy. Maybe tomorrow I will try to do something indulgent for me.
Apparently H and I are both really good at going dark. Neither of us has made any contact outside a few calendar related emails. No calls, no texts, nothing personal. Right now I'm not trying to figure out what that means, even for myself. I'm just sitting with it.
Go to a movie, smack in the middle of the afternoon without your list of errands being completed. Then go have a delicious milkshake somewhere.
Be decadent!
If you do that, take me with you!!
The detachment will come and go. Enjoy the peace and quiet. Like labug said do something for yourself. When you feel like reaching out to him, reach out to someone you have not contacted in a while and reconnect. That's a win-win!
Well I made it through the weekend. Saw H at church this morning of course and at D12's basketball game this afternoon. We exchanged a few kid related texts throughout the weekend but that was it.
I got my hair cut yesterday at a new salon. That was something nice just for me.
Tomorrow is the first time D12 will have to get ready for school at H's place. He has never participated in the morning routine but she's fairly self sufficient these days. I expect they'll be ok.
Life goes on.
I was wondering how your weekend was going.
I was wondering how your weekend was going.
There just really wasn't a lot to say. We had polite interactions in the places we needed to and that was it. But I am ok with it all. I've even had some happy moments. Not happy he's gone but just because my life is pretty good overall.
Good deal. You've been on my mind today.
And....did H manage to provide D12 with all necessary tooth/hair brushes?
And....did H manage to provide D12 with all necessary tooth/hair brushes?
Ha! I didn't ask.
. She looked ok at church this morning so I guess it all worked out. I do know they did quite a bit of shopping together, I just didn't ask what they were shopping for.
Poor RPP,
And....did H manage to provide D12 with all necessary tooth/hair brushes?
Ha! I didn't ask.
. She looked ok at church this morning so I guess it all worked out. I do know they did quite a bit of shopping together, I just didn't ask what they were shopping for.
You cannot live this one down! Your reputation is forever tarnished by
The Brush episode.
Poor RPP,
And....did H manage to provide D12 with all necessary tooth/hair brushes?
Ha! I didn't ask.
. She looked ok at church this morning so I guess it all worked out. I do know they did quite a bit of shopping together, I just didn't ask what they were shopping for.
You cannot live this one down! Your reputation is forever tarnished by
The Brush episode.
I am totally ok with that.
. Could be sooooo much worse. Happy to have people that actually read my thread and know what The Brush is all about. Friends have inside jokes right? Mine is just published on the internet!
OMG, Now I'm laughing every time I see one of my kid's brushes in the house, too freaking funny.
Week one down. How are YOU rpp? How it detaching coming? GAL activities? (other than fretting about the brushes
)
Have you done something wonderful for yourself as labug suggested? Did you get that milkshake ? Is your house spit-shined from top to bottom?
I am on week 9 now. My time with my boys has been cut in half, but I am realizing that our relationship is actually better and the time we have together now is quality time.
I still cant get the waffles out of the waffle maker in 1 piece, but this morning for the first time they were actually edible. Baby steps!
Week one down. How are YOU rpp? How it detaching coming? GAL activities? (other than fretting about the brushes
)
Have you done something wonderful for yourself as labug suggested? Did you get that milkshake ? Is your house spit-shined from top to bottom?
I feel like I'm pretty detached. How do you know?
I didn't get a milkshake, but my D16 did, does that count? There's a farm stand out in the Redland that's famous for their milkshakes, she and her bf went out there on Sunday afternoon.
I didn't really do anything wonderful for myself. My house does look pretty good, though.
I still cant get the waffles out of the waffle maker in 1 piece
Use a chopstick to loosen the edges. And you may need to cook it a little longer than you think.
I think a GAL for rpp would be to have her house not quite so spit-shined.
Thanks for the tip. Honestly I was wondering if I had cooked them long enough!
It is hard to gauge how detached you are. Not feeling the urge to contact your WAS is a step, not wondering how they would feel about something is a step, not giving them a lot of "space" in your mind is a step. I have no idea what order though. I knew I was being successful at detaching when I stopped feeling "let down" by her words and actions. Losing those expectations is a big step!
Taking time for you is an important concept. It is good for your self esteem, it helps GAL and it helps detach. I think you and I are a lot alike. Not a selfish bone in your body?
I think a GAL for rpp would be to have her house not quite so spit-shined.
Yeah, maybe.
It's really easy for me to say that I don't have time to GAL because kids, house, etc. I've had years and years of practice at that. Or I intend to do something for me just as soon as I finish my to-do list. And then I kind of never get there. But at least I'm aware that I do that.
S is a new kind of limbo. I'm not sad. I don't really miss him. I'm very slightly annoyed that he hasn't checked in to make sure I'm ok. I don't mean physically, I can handle the kids and the house, but he knows I didn't want it and it would be lovely if he'd just ask how I'm doing emotionally. I always intended to reduce my contact down as far as possible, I just didn't realize he'd be doing the same. But then again, he did work really hard at getting away from me, what was I expecting?
He did give me a couple of compliments this weekend, which was nice, and out of character for him. He noticed my haircut, and said something positive about my coaching after our basketball game. It's funny, though, I see those things as something he'd tell a friend or acquaintance, he's quite charming. He hands out positive things to other people, not his W, therefore he doesn't see me as his W. Mindreading for sure, but an interesting perspective. And a point in the column for being his friend, not his W. Not a decision I'm going to make today, but something to consider.
Not a selfish bone in your body?
It was "bred" out of me as a child! My mother borders on martyr status, though, not a place I want to go. There has to be some sort of balance, I'm working on that!
I'm very slightly annoyed that he hasn't checked in to make sure I'm ok. I don't mean physically, I can handle the kids and the house, but he knows I didn't want it and it would be lovely if he'd just ask how I'm doing emotionally.
He did give me a couple of compliments this weekend, which was nice, and out of character for him. He noticed my haircut, and said something positive about my coaching after our basketball game. It's funny, though, I see those things as something he'd tell a friend or acquaintance, he's quite charming. He hands out positive things to other people, not his W, therefore he doesn't see me as his W. Mindreading for sure, but an interesting perspective. And a point in the column for being his friend, not his W. Not a decision I'm going to make today, but something to consider.
That is an example of NOT being detached.
I really struggle with doing things for me, spending money on me and making myself a priority.
17 years of "doing" for family..... I get it.
I have 2 daily goals. Step out of my comfort zone (rut) and do something for myself. Most days its as simple as learning to cook for one and taking time to relax for half an hour for the other. However I make sure to accomplish both goals every single day.
I'm very slightly annoyed that he hasn't checked in to make sure I'm ok. I don't mean physically, I can handle the kids and the house, but he knows I didn't want it and it would be lovely if he'd just ask how I'm doing emotionally.
He did give me a couple of compliments this weekend, which was nice, and out of character for him. He noticed my haircut, and said something positive about my coaching after our basketball game. It's funny, though, I see those things as something he'd tell a friend or acquaintance, he's quite charming. He hands out positive things to other people, not his W, therefore he doesn't see me as his W. Mindreading for sure, but an interesting perspective. And a point in the column for being his friend, not his W. Not a decision I'm going to make today, but something to consider.
That is an example of NOT being detached.
I don't know, bdub. I can observe these things without getting emotional about it. I didn't say I was upset he complimented me and didn't see me as his W, I just noticed it. And I said I was very slightly annoyed, not in a heap on the bathroom floor. I think that's something. Does detachment mean you have no emotions whatsoever?
I dont think it means you have no emotion whatsoever.
I might be reading between the lines. To ME it looks like:
1) you are dissapointed he doesnt care about you.
2) his compliments made you happy.
3)Point in the column for being his friend.
Those things make me think you are really relying on him emotionally. Detaching means his actions have little or no effect on your emotions.
Someone else jump in here pls. I am not sure you want to be his friend. I think the goal is to treat him as a neighbor / co worker. Going to the friendzone is a dangerous place. Again, labug or someone else, chime in here please.
I dont think it means you have no emotion whatsoever.
I might be reading between the lines. To ME it looks like:
1) you are dissapointed he doesnt care about you.
2) his compliments made you happy.
3)Point in the column for being his friend.
Those things make me think you are really relying on him emotionally. Detaching means his actions have little or no effect on your emotions.
Someone else jump in here pls. I am not sure you want to be his friend. I think the goal is to treat him as a neighbor / co worker. Going to the friendzone is a dangerous place. Again, labug or someone else, chime in here please.
1) I am slightly disappointed he doesn't care about me. But that's more of an observation than a heartbreak. Information to file away. I had friends texting me every day last week, asking how I was. Nothing from H. I noticed.
2) Of course his compliments make me happy. Anyone's compliments make me happy. Why should he be any different?
3) Point in the column for being his friend AS OPPOSED TO being his W. Important distinction. I'm not saying I want to be his friend now and R later. To me, accepting friendzone would mean that I no longer want to be his W. And I'm saying that I've put a point in the friendzone column. But again, not something I'm going to decide today. And he certainly has no idea about any of that, as far as he knows, I intend to R, and I'm not acting like friendship is an option. Just something I'm observing in myself.
I guess it's hard to read someone's emotions. I'm not saying I'm totally detached, I'm saying I feel OK about the S. I'm being a human, going about my business, feeling normal human things. Not "OMG I can't live without him" kind of things. Because I can.
Yes, very hard to read emotions on here.
thanks for clearing it up.
You are gathering info and assessing the situation. I see that now.
Interesting that friends are treated better than W. Not that uncommon, but still interesting. I was very much guilty of that myself.
You are gathering info and assessing the situation. I see that now.
Yes! That's what I was trying to get across. Thank you for putting the right words there.
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