I came by to check in and think "out loud" a little and didn't even realize my last thread was done -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2497413&page=11I don't really have anything profound or newsworthy to add. I keep going about my life, trying to find new things to do and get used to the reality of my life. I have an online Jamberry party going, which is fun (and scores me free stuff!) but makes me a little anxious because I'm worried my friends will buy stuff and then not like it...it's not like Tupperware where it is what it is, it's nail wraps that people tend to either love or hate. Working on telling myself that they are all big girls and made their own choices about purchasing the product..and I shouldn't worry about it. I think I listened to the Jason Mraz song Maybell posted 10 times today!
A lot of your posts resonate with me lately. Ss06 posted about how easy it could be to become a functioning alcoholic during this time. That's actually something I've thought about, too, and am trying to be careful to not let that get away from me, especially since I live in a region of the US where a drink or two a day is considered normal behavior. The calories are a good incentive to cut back
I also felt a connection with claire's recent posts about her H feeling like a stranger, and maybe setting things into motion herself at the end of the year. I really know nothing about my H now - who he is, what he does, who he hangs out with. It's getting harder to believe that there's anything he could do to make me trust him again - it's getting close to tipping the scale to the irrepairable side. And it actually kind of lessens my opinion of him even more that he can't even follow through on a decision he's made and get the business aspect taken care of. I catch myself thinking phrases like "I think I'm done" so I'm getting closer. I still really don't want to file and do all of the work/pay for it because I didn't want this in the first place, but I acknowledge that it may have to be that way, and that just because I take that step doesnt mean I wanted it, or that I was the "dumper", or that I didn't try as hard as I could.
Speaking of, I do wonder if there's anything else I can try or do besides NC and moving forward. I debate if I should try and get in touch with him or text him things to try to start conversation or anything. I don't want to be keeping score and I know that I may have to do all the work right now but is it still OK to say "No, he made a choice, if he wants things to change he can initiate connecting?" I'm feeling conflicted about that.
I am in a similar situation with my W. We are still in the same house yet, but she does not connect with me as a H. She stopped wearing her rings
this week. States that it is gone, have not made love in a month. doing DB couseling with her which gives me hope but think all is lost. Detatching does not seem to work with her, holding and being a good person and H seems to...but I do not know. She cried in church yesterday and stated that she wants to tell the kids (they know something is up). I told her that I would support her if she wanted to move out, but think I will be resentful if she does. I almost want to give her a ultimatum and ask to either put back on her rings and be my W or move out until she can figure it out but am afraid.
Its hard when we love them so much, I accept some responcibility but ultimatly it is now her choice.
I hope you find peace.
You know your sitch better than anyone. I don't think there is anything wrong with you staying NC or trying to extend an olive branch. labug offered you some advice on this in your last thread, and I think it still applies:
Be as friendly with your H as you can handle without expectation. But ask yourself if these random "touches" are all he can offer as a means of reconnecting, is that enough for you. Do you still want to be the one who does the heavy lifting in the R? If I recall correctly he said some pretty harsh things about how your M happened.
You have a choice here and that's a powerful, although scary placed to be.
It also sounds like you were struggling with detachment as recently as Sept. It's up to you to figure out what this advice means you to 6 weeks later.
kgirl,
i know here in the pacific NW i am considered a prude cause i don't drink everyday. i know the W has taken a habit of drinking EVERYDAY. even my S has started to notice. i don't think it would be a game changer if you decided to send out a text. but if you do, only something like hey thought of you today. hope you are doing well. something along those lines. if you didn't text, that would make sense as well. best of luck.
Thanks, all. The quote from labug is a good reminder. I do still feel like random "touches" or small talk is not enough for me right now. There needs to be some bigger things said and dealt with before we can get into a "getting to re-know each other" phase. And honestly, thinking about trying to talk to him makes me feel anxious and panic-y. I'm less stressed if I can pretend he doesn't exist. I wish there was a right or best answer for what to do, even though I know there isn't one...which is kind of funny because in my job I spend a lot of time telling people that there isn't a best or right choice or answer!
So this afternoon was tough. I used to ride a different bus before I moved, and I knew a neighbor who rode regularly/got off at the same stop and we'd chat. I ride a different bus now but it's really close to the old bus route/stops so it's not uncommon for people to interchange them, and for the first time since I left the neighbor was on my new bus. We ended up getting off at the same stop, and he asked about not seeing me in a while. To which I said "I actually moved, and ride this bus now." To which he said "oh...so... did your husband move with you?" and then I had to say we were separated. I thought I was past the point of getting teary or upset when telling people, but nope, apparently not. As soon as I got in the door I had a big ol' cryfest. I was not my best self, I did say something like "I don't really understand why, but if you see douchebag out in the yard you can ask him why!" Neighbor told me things were tough for him too, his wife had another miscarriage. I'm ashamed to admit that in my upset-ness I said "I'm sorry, that does suck. At least she's still here, though." Yep, pretty excellent conversational skills and empathy right there. Still cringing, don't need any 2x4's because I'm giving myself enough of my own. At least I acknowledged it sucked and I was sorry and wasn't a total jerk. Just a regular jerk. Ugh. I hope he can give me a mental pass given the circumstances.
Anyways, that all reminded me of all of the dreams and hopes that I lost when this all went down. In addition to a family and marriage I lost a house, a yard, a neighborhood, a pet, half of ten year's worth of mementos and household items and furniture. I think I may hate him now. I think it may be too late. I really don't think there's anything humanely possible he could do that would help me forgive him. I don't know that I have enough forgiveness in me to be able to do it. There are people out there that can, but I don't think I am one of them. I already struggle with holding grudges, this may just be too much.
....I was going to go to the gym but after all that I can't get up. And just want to lay on the couch and watch TV and have a drink. Or two. So speaking of, my H didn't like that I'd have a drink on a weekday (after dinner...when all my stuff was complete... not during work, not a six pack, or anything). Is your drinking a problem when it upsets someone else? Where's the difference between problematic and someone just having different standards (or like bravo said he just might be more "prudish" or conservative)? Do I have a problem or am I just taking H's criticism too seriously because I'm looking for the magic thing I can do or say to bring him back? As I type this... I remember that H has a DUI, and I do not. Hmm...that's telling, I think (although H continues to swear that was an unlucky break and blames his friend for giving him directions that involved driving down a one way street the wrong way and he didn't know it was a one-way...and wasn't about his judgment, he could drive just fine).
Maybe you should talk to your C about this. Are you concerned about your drinking?
How can you get away from allowing him to define you? And maybe you're just too awesome for him? You're a young, intelligent, beautiful woman with a lot on the ball. In order to attract the right kind of people to us, we have to first be attracted to ourselves. Would you be attracted to you?
If you met your H today, would you be attracted to him? Would you want to date him?
In a previous post you went through a list of all the things you lost, doesn't mean it's lost forever, maybe just postponed until you find the right person.
There's a big funk over this board this week. Let's all do a gratitude list.
Ah ha, so I was the funk that inspired the gratitude list
Yesterday was rough but today is better. Sometimes time is the only thing that helps. I am not concerned, no...but then again usually the person themselves is the last person to be concerned. It may just be time to stop thinking about all this and analyzing, trying to figure out what else I can do better, etc., because I think my plateau is reached.
Ah ha, so I was the funk that inspired the gratitude list
Not just you, KGirl. We all get into a funk sometimes. I indulged in some massive mindreading and I'm usually really good about that. It happens. Glad you are feeling better!
Well, time has come to face reality.
I texted H asking about a recipe that I had left there. He responded to my question, and then with:
H: Also, we need to talk about a few things and moving forward with filing. Let me know if you prefer to meet in person or have a phone all and what times work for you to disuss this weekend or next week.
I guess I imagined that coming up a little differently? Like, maybe starting with the fact that he had decided that for sure?
Me: OK. I take it you have decided that is what you want to do for sure? I would rather discuss on the phone [listed some times tomorrow, I don't want to delay that.]
H: Yes, it's what I've decided [says what times he'd be free, offers to call me at a certain time.]
I thought I would feel better having an answer. And I know it's possible the answer could change but the possibility seems so far away now. Now it's hitting me like a giant truck. I guess I still thought deep inside that he wouldn't actually go through with it, and we'd figure it out, or at least try. I still am finding it hard to believe he is done with me without ever attempting to talk about it. I guess this is BD #2? I had planned to do some things tomorrow morning but I am just devastated and don't even know how I am going to get through this phone call with him. I guess a positive is that at least I don't have to push anything forward if he's ready to do the work to end things, and therefore I won't have to hire a lawyer and deal with all of that. We've had disussions when I lived at home about the actual settlement, and all there is the house, and we agreed how that would work. I don't have a problem with him hiring someone to do the paperwork and me just looking at it - there really isn't anything for me to be financially hurt about, unless he tries to pull something surprising.
Ugh. OK, it's settling in now. I really don't want to talk to him in person about it - am I missing out on any opportunity here by talking on the phone?
I'm still so confused. He was texting me about a restaurant just earlier this week and how they changed their prices and made a pun out of it. It seemed promising. I guess I let my expectations get the better of me.
If anyone has any words of encouragement or thoughts or advice.. or really anything.. it would be much appreciated. I feel like I'm starting the whole greiving process all over again. I got a little too comfortable with putting the M and H aside,to the point where I think I was in denial, and now I have to face it again. I'm thinking I will just listen to whatever he has to say on the phone tomorrow, and can tell him I'll need to think about it and answer later via email or something with my thoughts.
KGirl, I'm not a vet with sage advice, but I'm here. That is hard news to hear. You have some reality to face - he wants to file. But many, many people have remarried after D. And I've also seen some reconciliations on here after filing but before D. Try your best to remain calm on the phone call. Don't think of it like your M is ending tomorrow or even if/when the D is final. It ended at or before BD. If it is going to be reconciled, it will be M #2.
KGirl,
I'm so sorry you are in this place. We are here because we've had hope. This doesn't mean that you should necessarily give up hope on your M, (it's over when you say it's over, and of course you DEFINITELY won't ever give up hope on yourself), but I think I understand how you feel.
((KGirl))
KGirl, I'm not up to speed on your situation but I can certainly relate to what you are feeling. I agree with Claire, it's only over when you say it's over. We all need hope.
Thanks for all of you for checking in. It's nice to "talk" to people whose first response is not "well, at least you know his answer now!". I guess the DBing may have helped me get to a better place to receive this news than before... it may be too soon to tell. I think I put too much hope in the 1% possibility that he might come around (he told me repeatedly he was 99% sure that D was what he wanted... and I got really fixated on the fact that it wasn't 100%), and that's why this is so heartbreaking now, even though I feel like I should have gotten over all the sadness and whatnot back in December. My thoughts keep turning to the "whys" again, all those questions that have no answers ("why wasn't he happy? why did he do this? why wasn't he willing to do anything to figure it out or even talk to me?") and I'm trying to not ruminate on those because as 25 would say, we waste too much of our time on that, but not being so successful right now. And I am scared to death about having this phone call with him to discuss "things."
It's funny how not long ago I said I thought I hated him and that it might be too late... but yet when he says he's moving forward with filing I freak out and don't want it. Maybe this is more about it not being on my terms or me iniating it (and feeling like he's doing something TO me, to hurt me) than what is actually happening.
Of course you held onto the 1% hope. So what's wrong with that? We all came here to save our marriages. I ask myself all the same questions you do, everyday. Do we possibly waste too much time on it? Maybe. But if we don't hold onto some glimmer of hope why even bother being here? It's okay to mourn the loss and it's okay to hold onto it, for as long as YOU want to.
(((KGirl)))
I feel the same way sometimes, filled with resentment towards WAW, thinking I'll be better off without her. But I always come back because I want to restore my M more than any other possibility. I'm sure you feel the same way. And while your M isn't over or hopeless until you decide that it is, it's important you know that reconciliation is not our only hope for happiness.
From what I've read from you, it's sounds like someone will be lucky to be with you in the future, whether it's your WAH or another man.
How's the kitty?
Oh, kitty. I got the text from H and shortly thereafter posted here (so not sure how long ago that was, I can't figure out what timezone these are technically in?). I had just started to play with the cat and then had to put that all on pause while I curled up in a ball and sobbed and talked to a close friend on the phone. For about an hour the poor cat was meowing and begging me to keep playing with him but I just couldn't. It triggered a bunch of memories of me and H playing with our cat (that lives with him now) and most likely not ever seeing her again or living in the same house as her, and like I've "replaced" her somehow with this new cat. Poor little guy, good thing he doesn't know all of my underlying feelings about him! I wonder if he can sense the stress, though, and that's why he's all whiney. We're playing now and it will be OK. It's nice to have some constant companionship even if it's a cat.
KGirl, I'm sorry that's what's happening for right now. I can imagine what you're feeling.
I hope you're in your apartment. With your sweet kitty. Relaxing in he nice home you've made for yourself, surrounded by things you chose with your own preferences. Enjoying what feels beautiful to you.
I hope you are reflecting on how strong you've been, how self-sufficient. You've got a cute orange car that you researched and chose on your own. You've been self-reflecting and growing, building bonds and becoming a woman only a fool would leave.
THEREFORE, your H is a fool. And you deserve way better than a fool. You deserve to set your face forward and to expect an amazing life for yourself.
And maybe, if your H is very, very brave, and very, very lucky, he will grow into the sort of man who deserves you, and PERHAPS, if you're available, he might get a second bite at the apple. But I don't think he will. Because I think there is an awesome future in store for such a courageous and competent woman, and you will the One That Got Away, and thanking him for the broken road that you led you into an outrageously awesome life.
I really like what Maybell said!
Sorry you're going thru this. My fear for myself is that I'm feeling too hopeful or positive because if it comes to this for me I know I will be in much worse shape than you. Hang in there!
i'm sorry for that k-girl. i've been where you are at and it sux. but i have been where you are at and i'm still kicking! you will too even if sometimes you will wish you weren't. praying for you. if you don't want to give up then don't give up.
Of course your feeling like crap and I would guess you will for a day or 2 or 3.
That doesn't mean you aren't in a better place to handle this than you were when you first came here.
You've been through a lot and you're beginning to see your worth. H has no clue about that so should in no way be seen as a judge of your worth.
I had a pretty tough blow (work) a couple of weeks ago and it hit me like a ton of bricks, I was devastated for about 24 hours, literally in a ball, sobbing, couldn't sleep, etc. Then I went back to my meditation, changed the story I was telling myself and let it go. For a while I thought there was something wrong with me that I felt in control so quickly.
My IC who I had called for a unscheduled appt said I was fine, just not used to behaving in a healthier way.
I hope for the same for you, KGirl. You CAN do this.
I'm reminded of this quote:
"If we can bring mindfulness to those moments in which we find ourselves moving down a tributary we didn’t mean to take, carried away by our emotions, we may be able to sense what is happening within us at that particular moment, stop, and perhaps change course, choosing a more relational and empathetic alternative."
~Myla & Jon Kabat-Zinn
K-Girl,
I'm so sorry to hear this. I know it sukks like a mo. I do know this. You are a smart, beautiful, kind woman who has handled this with grace and maturity. You have grown so much and I always love reading your posts. I'm not sure your h ever really appreciated what a prize you are and someone else will. I'm sure of it.
Cry. Eat some chips. It's okay. You are strong and will get through this better than ever. Sending you a hug and some frozen custard:-)
Kgirl,
I am certainly not a vet so I can't lend the great advice that some of the others can, but reading your story, it sounds a lot like mine and my heart goes out to you. My husband went from BD to S to filing for divorce in barely over a month and the day he actually filed I bawled ALL day long. All I can tell you for sure is what works for me and that is to just take it one minute at a time. I can see why becoming an alcoholic during this time would be easy, but I have resisted that urge/temptation.
Cry if it is what works for you and do whatever makes you feel good....if feeling good is even possible for you right now.
Hang in there, Kgirl. I don't post on here often, but there are a LOT of great people on here who have wonderful advice to give. My thoughts and prayers will be with you!
Thank you all for your kind words.
I did get out of bed around 11am, took a shower. Then I kind of got stuck there. I got out of the the shower and looked at the curtain and the towels, which were both wedding presents that H and I thoughtfully chose for our registry, and broke down again. I know this is not rational and not my fault and no one judges me for it but I still feel so badly that so many friends and relatives spent money on us and it feels wasted now.. or like I somehow scammed presents out of them.
Hoping to meet the following goals today:
1) Get some sort of high calorie and delicious beverage at Starbucks, along with a pastry
2) Go to Target to look at Christmas trees and pick up the few groceries I absolutely must get.
I usually spend Saturday morning grocery shopping and clipping a bunch of coupons. Just not up for the couponing today, and that's OK, I can give myself a pass on that. I had to leave the Christmas tree behind because it's too big for my space, so finding a smaller one that will fit in my apartment seems like a fun task and hopefully not sad.
I'm trying to figure out what to do next to work through this pain and grief, if anything. Labug - do you do any specific sort of meditation for the type of situation you were in, or is it just general breathing/noticing thoughts type of meditation? I will for sure be making an IC appointment first thing Monday. I haven't been since June. I guess what I'm not sure about is whether to:
A) Still have some hope, because even if he does file it takes 4 months before it becomes final. Several posters have been in the throes of the actual divorce process and things turned around. In labug's case her H said at one point that it was time to get things "settled" but then that never happened. So it's possible that this is not actually going to go through... but if I hope too much I'll be setting myself up for some serious heartbreak and even more grief when it does happen
2) Get the grief work done now, and take care of things I had been putting off while I was "hoping"/standing. Things like actually changing my home address at work, putting in a USPS change of address, closing our joint checking account, splitting up our family phone plan (thinking about having to go to US Cellular with him to do that makes me nauseous, I hope there's a way to do it without us both being present), and maybe hardest in some ways... going through the boxes I have of relationship and wedding mementos and really putting those to rest. Right now if I look at those I'll just feel angry, so I'm wondering if I should wait to do that until a time where I can actually appreciate them or remember them as good memories... if such a time ever comes?
I am worried about my state of mind right now, so I'm hoping it's temporary and will become better in a few days, but if not maybe I need some more help (like in the form of anti-depressants or anti-anxiety medication, I don't know). Thinking about going to do anything, even getting a Christmas tree, makes me think "Why even bother? This is all pointless. None of that matters." I know that is a big red flag and I need to be aware and keep people in the loop because I don't want this to spiral out of control. And I'm letting H's ideas cloud my reactions to that.. when the first BD came and I told him I felt like life wasn't worth it without him he said I was playing games and trying to manipulate him into staying by saying I'd hurt myself. I *think* that is not an unusual reaction when something terrible happens, as long as it's not sustained and you figure out how to cope with it, but his reaction makes me feel cr*ppier like I'm being manipulative, and I know I'm not. I don't care to tell him how I'm feeling. Must not let him determine my worth!
H is calling in half an hour to talk about "things." Trying to stay calm and business-like and relieve the the shakey throw-upy feeling I have. Any recommendations for calming exercises or breathing?
I had googled grieving an unwanted divorce and one of the websites recommended asking the spouse for a letter or email explaining why so you can have closure. I would like to actually know, but I don't think I should ask him for a letter, right?
KGirl-
I don't know all of your story but just wanted to give you some support before your phone call. Absolutely do not ask for the letter now. Act as calm cool and collected as possible.
I'm not a vet but I would let H do most of the talking. I imagine he is going to expect you to cry and get upset (rightfully so!) but don't let him have the satisfaction. Leave the conversation with him hanging up the phone scratching his head wonder wth?
You can do this, you have been doing this!
Don't ask for the letter.
Re-read this.
x1000000
K-Girl,
I'm so sorry to hear this. I know it sukks like a mo. I do know this. You are a smart, beautiful, kind woman who has handled this with grace and maturity. You have grown so much and I always love reading your posts. I'm not sure your h ever really appreciated what a prize you are and someone else will. I'm sure of it.
Cry. Eat some chips. It's okay. You are strong and will get through this better than ever. Sending you a hug and some frozen custard:-)
Give yourself a hug from all of us. Stay strong.
OK. *deep breath*. Conversation done. I don't know if it was 100% dbing, but if nothing else I was authentic, and certainly not crazy. There were some moments where I was teary but I paused and caught my breath and didn't let it escalate into a tantrum.
One of the first things H said was, "well, it's been 6 months and we haven't really talked or seen each other, so I guess it's time we move this forward." Which is concerning to me, like I should have tried to talk to him, maybe? or he felt like that was the only option? Maybe I should have opened more doors? I don't know. I think we cleared the air on that later. He gave me the rundown of what he talked to a lawyer about. He asked me what I thought or wanted to do. I said "Well, I am sad about this, and I still don't want a divorce, but I understand that this is what you want, so I won't stand in your way" and told him I agreed with how he wanted to move forward.
H: I don't mean to make this worse but.... I guess I'm confused as to why you would still want to be married, after all this time?
That's a tough one to answer, huh?
Me: You've been a part of my life for a long time, and I do miss you and want to be married to you. I haven't been talking to you for the past 6 months not because I didn't like you or wanted to be divorced, but because there was really nothing more for me to say, and I know that it was really up to you. I didn't want to spend time chasing you. I needed to start building my own life.. but that didn't mean I gave up on the idea of being married. (So that probably wasn't all dbing but... several of his comments referred to me leaving and giving up, and I wanted to be clear that that was NOT my intent, in case that was driving him to do this. At some point when I was explaining this he said "But you did" referring to me giving up on us.... what the heck?)
H: I guess I understand that, and I'm glad you're figuring out how to live your own life. I didn't want to talk to you to get your hopes up at all. I mean, you were my best friend and I really wanted us to be friends but I understand you don't want to do that because you may want more.
Me: At this time, no, I really can't do the friends thing.
We talked a little more about some of the paperwork and other things that need to be taken care of (insurance, checking accounts, cell phone plan). Then we started talking about other things, that weren't really necessary, and maybe I should have refused to talk about those things, I don't know. But I also figured what could it hurt at this point? And maybe there'd be a slight possibility that chit-chatting with me would make him think a little. Who knows. He said he heard I got a cat and asked about him so we talked about cats for awhile. He asked about my sister's wedding and if she found a dress. He asked about my car. He asked about a lot of things, and maybe I should have asked HIM about some things, but I don't know that he's really done anything for me to ask about. If nothing else it did show me that it would be possible to reconnect and get caught up on each other's lives.
He did say that my mom was acting "crazy" at one point, so that's why he had to defriend her on facebook. According to him, she approached his mom at work (they work together) and asked her about an event she saw photos of on facebook, and then said "So did he talk about his wife at all? Does he ever call his wife?" and got all accusatory. According to MY mom, she just asked about the event and his mom got weird about it. Who knows. I didn't try to defend her or agree, I just said "you know, one of the things I've been thinking a lot about is leaving people to their own cr*p, whether it's people at work or family members. I can't control them, they need to take care of themselves." He said "yeah, I guess I've been thinking a lot about that too." He was also upset because a month or two ago, one of his aunts posted a really sweet and nice comment on one of my photos on facebook. So I messaged her and said "It's really nice of you to still think of me, given the circumstances." and she said "that's what family is for". What H heard was that I wrote to her saying "Why are you commenting on my post, given the circumstances?" It's interesting how things in his family get twisted around like that... and he was upset because he hadn't actually told those people yet!! I would have thought for sure by now all the key people would know. His attitude is that if they want to know why his wife isn't at events, they should ask, because he's not going to outright tell them. And if they try to dance around it and act dumb when they "already know", he's going to give them h*ll. OK, whatever, his problem. Kinda points to some interesting communication issues though, huh?
So we had a pretty friendly conversation for the most part. It was almost 2 hours long, a lot of it was just catching up and talking about things that have happened. Which is OK with me. I don't have any expectations and at least if it's our very last converastion, it ended positively and I feel like I did all I could. He said he'd get in touch once he has the initial petitions set for me to sign. I made it clear that I'll do what needs to be done and fill out my paperwork, but that I am not going to help him with the process or look into things for him beyond that. He was a little weird about that ("Well, I can see why I should have to pay the filing fee because it's my thing but.. it's going to get expensive." I refrained from any comment on that, go me!) but ultimately agreed he would be in charge of getting everything drafted and paying the fees/a lawyer to help draft the settlement part.
At the end I said:
Me: Well, I need to get going. I really do wish you well, and I hope you find what you're looking for. (I still don't know if I do but I can at least act like it, right?)
H: I don't know if I'm really looking for anything.. but... ok.
Me: Well, then I hope you find what you need to be happy. Or whatever you need. I think you get what I'm saying.
H: Yeah, I do. I'm sorry I am the way that I am. And I really do think that eventually, in time, this will be for the best and you'll be better off without me.
Me: Maybe that will be true. Well, goodbye!
I did feel a little better that he didn't try to blame me for anything (aside from a little at the beginning when he said something about ME giving up/walking away... which still makes me wonder if I should have tried to engage more. I don't think so though) and acknowledged that this was really about him. And maybe he is right. Maybe I will be better off. I do wonder about the being friends thing but I think for me at this point it would just be to try to get back into an R and that's too much pressure for either one of us. It would have to be purely to just be friends with no interest in an R.
So, I survived. I was brave. And I didn't ask him why or for a letter
K-Girl, I know that must have been so hard. I'm sorry, but I hope you feel proud of the way you handled that with such grace and dignity.
What a fool he is to let you go.
(((K-Girl)))
Thanks, Claire. It's hard not to analyze it and wonder if I should have held back a little more (like not admitting that I had not given up on us and hoped it would work?) But at the same time, I was not OK with him contending that I had somehow given up/was OK with this. It was just the truth.
Yes, I do think he is a fool. Earlier today I was reading all of your comments and was really thinking to myself "these people don't even know me.. so they are just saying I am amazing and great and blah blah just so i feel better! Because if I was so great why would he leave me?" But after that conversation it solidified a little more that this is so not about me, and much more about whatever is going on with him (expectations of R? depression? early MLC? who knows, and I likely will never know, but it's probably not anything that anyone he would have been M to could have done anything about) It makes me sad to think that he really believes I'll be better off without him, and what part that plays into his decision, if it's a part of it. And maybe I will be, but how he is IS something he has control over.
You did great!
And you're right, it's not about you. He wants out because he wants out. Marriage is work, some people aren't up to that.
About the meditation, I've done a bit of everything through all this, self-compassion helps in difficult times, anger-releasing is also good, but the back bone of my practice is returning to the breath, staying in my body.
Google tiny buddha when you're hurting and healing.
((( ))) We DO know you, perhaps better than your H, cause we've seen inside you, taken the time to listen to you, the real you.
Hi KGirl--
Yours is another story I've been following. I think you did awesome. My H told me today he didn't want to go to marriage counseling and I had to turn around so he wouldn't see me start to cry. I'm not sure I could have handled the call you had with your H as well.
KGirl, I'm really impressed with how you handled that. Don't worry for a second about his "well it's been 6 months and no talk" comment. You know he would not have been turned by your pursuit. He knows you still love him and want to work on the M; the decision is all his. He may have just been trying to deflect some of the responsibility of his decision. Keep doing what you're doing, follow your own path, stay true to your beliefs, and if he's lucky, he will wake up before it's too late (and you've found happiness with someone else).
Thank you all, again. I know I've been somewhat absent from posts lately. It's hard to give advice to other people when you don't feel like you necessarily know what to do in your own situation (and, working in a profession where you are't supposed to give advice but rather guide people to figure it out on their own, much like a counselor, makes it hard for me to do that in real life!)
Card - I am trying hard to put that out of my mind, and it's getting there. It did make me wonder if no contact actually backfired in some way, like making it seem I have no interest in him, but as you said, it seems to just be a way to deflect some of this back on me. If I had pursued him endlessly that wouldn't have made him come back either - in fact, when I did that after the beginning before I found DB, he said I wasn't respecting his decision and wasn't happy with me, either.
Part of me still does hope that something will happen before the D is final - we see it happen here often enough, even after someone has started the filing process. But I don't want to be crushed again, either. I only cried once today for a few minutes, got up and went places, actually ate food, so I was able to bounce back more quickly than in the past. What I've been repeating to myself is: this R was dead when H first told me he wanted a D back in December. This piece of paper isn't making that aspect of it any more final. Who knows what may happen in the future, D doesn't mean that things may not change, but I do know that H as he is now is not someone I really want to be with anyways. I value myself too much for that. And (this may sound awful, but I need to find some positives) making this legal will allow me to ease some of my financial pressures and will improve my life in several ways compared to being in "limbo." The payment I'll receive for him to buy the house from me could almost erase my student loan debt.
So speaking of H as he is now and not being interested in him... I found out today that a friend's H (we'll call him J) ran into my H at a restaurant on Wednesday. They each had a friend with them. According to my friend, H very casually told J, in front of their friends, that he was going to file for D this week, in a similar tone/way as if he was saying he was going to go get his car washed. When I told friend that H texted me on Friday about filing, she was astounded that H was telling people he was filing before even telling me, especially in front of other people. Eww. I think before news like that would have just crushed me. Now, sadly, it doesn't really surprise me, nor does it matter very much. I was a little tempted to call him out on it, but it serves me no purpose. Friend said "I know you want this to work, but honestly, he is so not worth your time. You are so much better than this. He doesn't deserve you." I don't want all of those thoughts to prevent me from working on myself, because it's easy to say "It's all him, he's just a jerk!" but I've been doing the work and I think I've acknowledged the things that are valid, while tossing the things he said that aren't.
In IC this week I'm going to focus on letting go of my anger and sadness over a few specific things that are holding me back (what H did above, and some things that are more about what other people will think/disappointing people than being disappointed in myself). And, how to go about grieving effectively rather than avoiding it because "H may come back, so I don't need to grieve! I can do that later!"
The "he doesn't deserve you" comment by friends means well but misses the point. The point is you don't get the marriage longed for. Whether he was a prince or a toad it amounts to the same. If he was a prince, it's sad that you lost a prince. If he's a toad, it's sad that he wasnt a prince. Realistically he is somewhere in between, and what makes him a road is his decision.
K, I wish I could promise it will work out the way you want it. But I, like you, have realized that hope can be a form of denial. The balance lies in both accepting reality- that we control nothing and the world can't guarantee this M or any other to work out for us...without giving up on goals- making ourselves better to try to find out own happiness, then to share it with another, maybe even WAH someday. I think this is disillusioning for all of us so I have to remind myself that life is about wanting what I get, not getting what I want. But that doesn't mean I won't keep on my road and hope to find a woman someday with the character to match these forums followers.
None of us know ou well or can change your sitch or lessen you're pain, but we all know Kgirl is going through a tough time and are wishing you the strength to get through and find your happiness in those little day to day moments life will still give you.
PS- don't rule out anti-Ds. I resisted for many, many, many years. Turns out I needed them. I didn't think I was crazy until I saw how much easier it was for me to handle life after I was on them. I'm still me, it didn't change who I was. But I can handle emotions better. I feel them, they just don't make me long for the end. Like being outside on a cold night, I now have a jacket. I'm still cold, but the wind doesn't cut through me like I was wearing a T-shirt. Be careful but be open.
I'm.. ok, I think! If I was rating on a scale of 1-10, with 1 being absolute despair/can't go on(which is how I felt Friday/Saturday) and 10 being the best I could feel, I'd probably be a 5. I've talked to two friends so far about H's phone call - the first one was on Sunday and I cried throughout. The second was on Monday and I didn't cry at all, so it seems I'm able to cycle through things a little faster. I feel more at peace now. I feel like I really did all that I could too, and at this point what H does is truly beyond my control or my influence. I'm going to IC in a few hours and have a list of things that keep popping up in my thoughts that are keeping me angry and holding me back from moving forward and accepting things. Hoping to get some ideas on how to let those particular items go. While this is not what I thought closure would be (I'm still somewhat stuck on not feeling like I understand why this happened), I think our phone call did give me some closure, just not in the way I was originally expecting it to be. Honestly, I think I just got tired of being sad and snapped out of it. I know there will be periods where it will come back but hopefully they will become fewer and shorter.
Hang in there K-Girl! You are doing great:-)
OK.. went to IC.. got my finger pricked for blood testing...got a flu shot...lots of "painful" things today. My big takeaway from IC is that I'm spending too much time, perhaps, ruminating about why this is and how H could do such a thing and wondering if I could have done anything else, which is preventing me from moving on to the next steps - true acceptance of reality, grieving, and moving forward. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of specific things I can do besides let time take its course (I want a checklist! or a manual! grr!). My IC did give me some handouts on radical acceptance to review. It was kind of funny, when I said I wanted instructions he said "well I can give you some handouts.. they are more directed at people who are severely emotionally disturbed.. so I don't want you to think that is you.." lovely! There are some key phrases/quotes to repeat to myself, including:
-I can only influence this moment
-The past has only the power I give it
-I won't let my life be shaped by someone else's actions
-This doesn't change or mean anything about me.
It also talks about how acceptance is NOT:
-agreeing with someone else's behavior
-that the pain I've experienced isn't real
-that I need to forget about the painthat was caused me
I did mention that I felt like I never really laid out to H how exactly all of this affected me and made me feel, since I've been trying so hard to DB which generally means friendly and polite. He suggested that maybe it's time for me to write an email or letter to H with how I feel, of course focusing on "I" statements and whatnot. I'm guessing that would not be recommended here, though.
I practice radical acceptance everyday and I don't think I'm severely disturbed.
So what can you do about your ruminating. You've been very vocal about H not doing his work, what's your work here?
I see flashes of your humor surfacing. Yay!
There's nothing wrong with writing it and getting it outside yourself. During the S I wrote many emails to H that I never sent. I'd sit on them for a couple of days and then re-read them. Most were rejected. If you write it and in a few days you still want to send it, do but be careful of the expectations you put on it.
((( ))) Hope you feel as good as you sound.
I don't think you are either, labug, from what I know
I hope that didn't come across as offensive. I think it was moreso that the materials were written in very basic language... it reminded me of when I worked at a mental health hospital and my conversations with patients were very basic, like "Today, if you don't hit anyone, you can go to canteen! What do you think about that? What can you do if you feel like hitting someone?" etc.
I think what I can do is repeat/think about some of those key phrases, until they start to become second nature. And, go out and make sure I stay busy and active with things that I value and add things to my life, whether that's getting necessary things taken care of, or talking with friends, or going to the gym, or cooking... things along those lines. I did ask my IC what else I can do to really accept this and grieve and he didn't really have much to say besides time and let my emotions happen. I would like more concrete instructions but they just may not exist. I did order a book that came today about rebuilding after a relationship ends that goes into more detail about the stages of grief and afterwards, so maybe that will help.
I am going to work this weekend on writing out an email. Who knows if it will be sent or not. I don't know that I'll have expectations but I do worry that what I write would likely burn some bridges if I sent it because it will probably be somewhat blame-y and angry... we'll see, I guess.
I am feeling better, and it's getting easier. I don't think about H or the situation as much as I did this past weekend. Time does really help. It was a little saddening when I got an email today from H's aunt about the annual Christmas gathering. I forwarded it to H and asked if he wanted to ask her to remove me from the email list, or if I needed to. He still hasn't told his extended family (and told me that he's not going to say anything about it at Thanksgiving unless they ask, because if they want to know they'll have to ask), which seems somewhat immature to me and not acknowledging/owning up to his actions but.. not my place, not my thing. What I do know is I don't want to con't to get emails about a Christmas gathering that I will not be attending.
After I posted that, H responded to my email about me getting removed from the Christmas planning email list that his aunt sends:
"Sorry, she knows [about us]. I guess she's just being a b*tch. I'll ask her to remove you."
It's interesting that that is his first assumption, rather than... maybe she just forgot to take me off? Or something else? I guess this has opened my eyes a little more and helped me to acknowledge how he can be closed-minded and often assume the worst in people (they are out to get him, they are just mean, etc.). "Immature" is the word that keeps coming up from IC and the people that know us both well. I think these are things I knew before but just chose to ignore them/let them go because I didn't want to see how he was
You really area very witty person.
OK.. went to IC.. got my finger pricked for blood testing...got a flu shot...lots of "painful" things today. My big takeaway from IC is that I'm spending too much time, perhaps, ruminating about why this is and how H could do such a thing and wondering if I could have done anything else, which is preventing me from moving on to the next steps - true acceptance of reality, grieving, and moving forward. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of specific things I can do besides let time take its course (I want a checklist! or a manual! grr!).
My IC did give me some handouts on radical acceptance to review. It was kind of funny, when I said I wanted instructions he said "well I can give you some handouts.. they are more directed at people who are severely emotionally disturbed.. so I don't want you to think that is you.." lovely!
There are some key phrases/quotes to repeat to myself, including:
-I can only influence this moment
-The past has only the power I give it
-I won't let my life be shaped by someone else's actions
-This doesn't change or mean anything about me.
I'm a big fan of repeating meaningful mantras like these^^ if they are authentic and helpful to YOU and your situation. I also "turned things over to God" and asked Him to help me heal. Thinking it, saying it out loud and hearing yourself having said it, ALL seem to blend in and to sink in.
If I can, I'd like to make a small suggestion about a few of your "mantras". Instead of "non negatives", e.g. "I won't let my life be shaped by others"<
you could state an affirmative, eg. "i am in charge of my life, and choices and only I will determine my 'mood',", so that you are empowering yourself to make choices, rather than only setting boundaries on others. Regardless of agreement, do you understand my point?
It also talks about how acceptance is NOT:
-agreeing with someone else's behavior
-that the pain I've experienced isn't real
-that I need to forget about the painthat was caused me
I did mention that I felt like I never really laid out to H how exactly all of this affected me and made me feel, since I've been trying so hard to DB which generally means friendly and polite.
Though i understand the appeal of this^^, and though I can IMAGINE us thinking
"FINALLY, the WAS will sit and listen and HEAR about my pain. They will really 'get it' , and then.... even if they don't want to reconcile, at least me & MY PAIN and suffering will be recognized and.....and....and"
and what?
What is the GOAL of this theoretically appealing, sit down "explanation of your pain"? And what is the real hope/expectation?
In my opinion, you'll be disappointed or worse. Rather than "getting you, finally", it'll be viewed badly, as yet more whining and more 'victimhood for the LBS' designed to guilt the WAS', etc. And more relief on his end, that he escaped...
And in a way, isn't it ^^ all of those things? Telling our story to a WAS is not what we tell ourselves, It's not a reckoning of the remorseful.
In HIS mind, you already know the reasons he is leaving OR you "should know", and he certainly believes he knows enough about your pain and suffering.
If words could affect him or make him do right by you, it would have been done by now, wouldn't it? You sure sound articulate here.
I believe there's no way you can change his perception merely with more words. (That's hard to accept, I know. I'm a L and see myself as quite the wordsmith).
For too long, I was convinced if I only grouped the right words together, and in the correct order, I could MAKE my h understand! Then he'd know how wrong he was and how "more right" I was, than him.....but he could not hear me.
He suggested that maybe it's time for me to write an email or letter to H with how I feel, of course focusing on "I" statements and whatnot. I'm guessing that would not be recommended here, though.
Oh, come on, you are Not really "guessing". You KNOW it's not recommended here.
AND, do you know why? It might help to write it all out and think it, see it, say it (hear it) and KNOW it and maybe, sometime soon, accept it.
Thanks, 25, for stopping by! I see what you are saying about flipping some of those into positives - great idea. I will work this week on writing some of my own phrases that ring true for me, and when I feel myself starting to slip into the "why? why is this happening? why did H do this?" thought tornado, I will reflect on them. You've given me lots of things to think on regarding telling him how I feel/how his actions have affected me. I'll keep thinking on it.
Hey Kgirl
My post sounded like a harsh 2 x 4, which I did not intend. Really I'm hoping you can learn from MY mistakes.
I wasted a solid year of my life asking a question that has no good answer. Seriously. That is probably my biggest regret.
In these situations, the question "Why?" IS just Not something to ask often. There is no "good" answer, meaning, there is no answer that will help you sleep or feel better.
Chances are you'll get no answer at all, but even if you got one, it would not give you the peace you seek.
I once met a young girl with cancer, at a summer camp. She felt alright that summer.
She shared with me that she "USED to ask God, 'why?' Why ME, God, why am I sick?...then I said 'I just am' and I stopped asking b/c I know I just have to have a fun life while I can..."
Smart girl who then had a great summer, but it was her last summer on earth... So, Why are you here? Why is your h having all these doubts, etc.?
I don't know. We only know that indeed you are here...so now what?
The peace you seek, the inner knowledge that you did your best when you could, only comes from within. (Meaning, once you knew what your role was, you made the changes needed).
So dig deep, own your role, change the behaviors you believe don't serve you well, and be at peace...regardless of what your h chooses.
And then ask yourself the other hard question. Which is, IF your h wants back into the marriage, how are YOU going to get past this ordeal with him?
How will You regain the trust in him enough to recommit & open your heart?
If you can't open your heart fully, in time, things will not go well for either of you. I'm not saying you'd punish him (though you might be surprised at how many choose that path), I'm asking how you'd forgive.
Of course that task is down the road. For now the only thing you need to ask yourself is if you believe you Would try to forgive, b/c if his doubts and present behavior might actually be a deal breaker for you, figure that out sooner rather than later.
True reconciliations do require true forgiveness.
But every long term happy marriage has included some chunks of forgiveness. So keep that in mind as you go forth. Make sense?
25, thank you again for your words of wisdom
I do think that is where I'm stuck right now. It was the first thing I wrote on my list of things to talk about in IC, in terms of where I'm stuck and unable to let go and move on - the fact that I don't understand the WHY of all this. I know there will never likely be an answer. I don't think H even knows why. I went back to some of my very first posts and looked at some of the reasons why H said he was doing this - "we didn't have sex enough" "you didn't compliment me enough" "you're always asking me what I'm doing" All of which he never addressed beforehand, and all of which I worked very hard to do better at the 6 months we lived together.. but then he said it still didn't matter, there was nothing I or anyone else could do to give him what he wanted. So that brings me back to still wondering, why?? I told my IC it would be easier if he did something awful or something unforgiveable, or there was a clear reason to be unhappy (we fought all the time, for example). IC said "Are you sure? Would knowing that really give you the closure you want? Or would you just wonder why you couldn't fix that new thing?" Point taken. Someone posted this on facebook not too long ago, it sums it up well:
"Giving up the need to know why something has happened to you will definitely count among the most rigorous personal challenges of your life."
I think at this point in time, I would be able to try and forgive him. If we got to the point of actually being D'ed and THEN he wanted to be in a relationship, I don't know about that. That's an awful lot to go through. If it got that far I think I'd say no, but hard to know until you're in the actual situation.
Well if you know you would be willing to try before a D is finalized, then focus on that, the here and now. Save the energy of thinking about what you want if it is finalized for that time. Your IC sounds great.
I hope you don't mind me freeloading advice from your IC, because Ive had this same thought on a few occasions: I wish she'd done something terrible! It seems like it would make it easier to let go. Your IC nails it by saying that we'd just have the same struggles with new issues.
How terrible would it have to be? My H cheated on me and lied continuously about giving her up, neglected my kids, and got the poshest bachelor pad he could. All he has let us to yank the financial rug out from under me (which I now have the means to cope with) and the destruction would be pretty thorough. And yet I'm still here... Wondering how he could do that stuff to me.
No matter what the reason is we'd just go further back in time to look for the source. The senselessness of it is what makes it such a bad decision on their parts.
Hey K, let the future take care of itself. The only thing you can control is you and that will influence your future.
How would knowing the why make things different for you?
Maybell - you know, I find myself thinking things like "If he cheated, this would be easier. I could be angry at him and if he was actually in love with someone else and that's why he left me, I guess I could understand why he didn't want to try to figure things out with me. Why would you if you already had someone else waiting for you that you were sure would be better?" Or "If we fought all the time and were yelling and screaming at each other, then it would make sense to get a D, because we'd be so unhappy." But, obviously there are many people on this site that have had those things happen, and are still pushing for their M to work or are still wondering why some of those things happened. So, I don't know how much worse it'd have to be. Maybe those things would still not be bad enough. Hard to say without experiencing them.
labug - I've been pondering this quite a bit yesterday and today. Part of it is that when someone does something cr*ppy or that lets me down but there's an explanation, it's easier for me to accept because generally it's beyond their control. Someone is rude to you and you find out they are on the autism spectrum and struggle with social cues. Someone didn't show up for an appointment and I find out it's because they were sick. Someone didn't invite you to something and you find out they accidentally forgot to include your email on the list. Things like that, if that makes sense. Generally the explanations are never what I fear, which is "I just don't like you. I'm an inconsiderate person. Etc." Knowing the explanation gives me a sense of relief. Maybe I'm pushing for answers because I do think there is one but H won't admit it (that he fell for someone else) and I just want him to come clean and admit it and quite hiding from the truth. Him saying it's just who he is can't really be the truth, in my mind, because it just doesn't make any sense. What is "just who he is"? Someone who can't stay in a relationship for the long haul? Someone who needs to sow his oats? I don't know. I get that it doesn't have to make sense to me, and I just need to accept his reasons are his reasons... but I don't know that I've truly accepted that in my "heart" or deep down in my brain.
Generally the explanations are never what I fear, which is "I just don't like you. I'm an inconsiderate person. Etc.
I think that's what most of us fear. It brings up our deepest fears about ourselves. We want it to be them, not us.
But when he says this,
Him saying it's just who he is can't really be the truth, in my mind, because it just doesn't make any sense. What is "just who he is"?
you don't buy it. Why?
Why won't you believe that it's not you.
Labug,
I struggle with the same feelings. I think part of it is because I gave my heart to this person, I let myself be so vulnerable, I trusted that I would be loved unconditionally, through good and bad, I thought he was strong and honest and had integrity. And I can't believe I chose a partner so poorly. It's hard to come to terms with how delusional I seemed to have been about him and our relationship. I wonder how I can trust my instinct about another person.
(Overly dramatic and irrational, but that is something I'm working through.)
See you have to keep making it about your poor choice, your delusional state, your instincts.
When we get married and become a couple a new entity is formed. Some people do well with it, some don't. Being footloose and fancy free as a single is one thing, add the responsibilities of M, a house, a working spouse, kids-it's suddenly a whole new and sometimes not enjoyable, enterprise.
Some are up for the challenge, some aren't despite perhaps their best efforts. People do change.
Yes, we have our part in that and taking responsibility for and working on what is ours is our work. Part of that is emotional detachment and knowing and protecting our boundaries.
It's also taking in the fact that we have NO control over other people. They do what they do because of their stuff. Do they sometimes react to us? Yes. Should we be compassionate and loving and respectful? Yes. Do we need to take responsibility for our actions? Yes. Do we have to take responsibility for their reaction? NO!
Somewhere inside us we have to be able to love and like ourselves, otherwise we're always looking for someone else to provide that, to validate us. But if we can't see that in ourselves, how can we expect someone else to see it and cherish it. If we treat ourselves like crap that gives every other person on the planet the permission to do the same.
You're both smart, charming, talented, witty women. We who communicate with you here get that. You need to see and cherish what we see very clearly. Challenge yourselves to treat your selves more gently.
Hugs to you both.
25, thank you again for your words of wisdom
I do think that is where I'm stuck right now. It was the first thing I wrote on my list of things to talk about in IC, in terms of where I'm stuck and unable to let go and move on - the fact that I don't understand the WHY of all this. I know there will never likely be an answer. I don't think H even knows why---
.
IC said "-- Would knowing (why) really give you the closure you want? Or would you just wonder why you couldn't fix that new thing?" Point taken.
Wow, ^^^ Awesome insightful question from your IC. Damn...that's a great point and I'm SO glad you heard it and you seem to "Get it". Hence my earlier assertion that there is no "good" answer, meaning an answer that would help us sleep or give us peace. Maybe we should say "it's a viral thing"....? ("the new ebola of the heart')
Someone posted this on facebook not too long ago, it sums it up well:
[b]"Giving up the need to know why something has happened to you will definitely count among the most rigorous personal challenges of your life."
Oh man, you are on a roll! That's another GREAT phrase. Very useful and I'm going to adopt it. I have accepted 2 things in my life that were big challenges and this^^ was certainly one of them.
The other was to accept that I can have ambivalent feelings for someone, like my dad (he had great strengths AND great weaknesses). When sober, he was a brilliant teacher and concerned dad. When Not sober, he was an abusive lunatic...
He's no longer with us, but to this day I see my brothers struggle to figure out who or what our dad was and for THEM it's like an identity issue. They are so rolled up in who he was and who they are as men/dads and husbands.
I digress, but I think my point is that sometimes we have to accept a lack of clarity about other people, and hope to heck we have clarity about who WE are.
That goes back to a DB lesson, focus on who/what we CAN control and let go of the rest.
I think at this point
in time, I would be able to try and forgive him.
^^ Fair enough. But forgiveness is not automatically understood. In my childhood I never saw what forgiveness looked like so I literally had to learn HOW to forgive. You might want to reflect on how it was modeled in your childhood, if it was.
It's a learned skill, so figure out WHERE/From Whom you'd learn this and learn it EVEN IF you do NOT get back with your h or decide not to recon.
You'll still need to let go of it, and that is PART of (not all, but part of) forgiving. And that piece of it you must do, for you... with or without your h.
You know why, right? ( I dont' want to belabor the point if you already know it).
If we got to the point of actually being D'ed and THEN he wanted to be in a relationship, I don't know about that. That's an awful lot to go through.
Well, fwiw, the 2 family members I have who did just that^^ (divorced, moved on, improved as individuals, and THEN reconciled and remarried) were "all done" for a few years. My aunt and uncle were divorced for 5 years and my cousin, for 3.
When they got the toxic pieces out, and worked on their "best selves" and each really did a LOT of individual work, they dated and had other relationships.
But their child(ten) kept them in touch and eventually the good things that they were first attracted to, kept popping up - and the toxic parts were mostly gone. And they all (all 4 of them) were better communicators. And yes, it was better the second time around.
Just so you know, it can happen. But as far as I know, none of them expected to reconcile. They all (seemed to at least) moved on and worked on themselves...nothing "Tactical" about it. it was authentic change.
If it got that far I think I'd say no, but hard to know until you're in the actual situation.
It's VERY hard to know. Plus when you say "if it got that far" as if there is a point of no return (for ME that would be if the spouse remarried, but again, who knows?)
AND don't forget that real growth can occur without the other person. And that might make them worth meeting anew.
For now, your options are limited but the good news there is that you DO have some clarity. Meaning, you do NOT have to decide "IF" you can forgive or how it would go, all you have to do right now is take care of YOU.
Here's the "secret"...we are in charge of our own happiness and we always were.
But, How to get there?
"Secret Formula" is 180s + GAL = Detachment. OR to say it another way...
180's (= our own flaws being processed and resolved)+ GAL (reaching out of our comfort zone to discover who we are, and reaching out to others as well) = Healthy Detahcment
and Detachment is Key to moving on to the life you were meant to live.
How is your GAL? And the 180s?
I'm going to close with a list of some GAL I did so you have some more ideas. I DO think you must meet NEW people so you can better stop the obsessing AND I also believe strongly that if your GAL activities are not stimulating enough that your mind is taken OFF your h for at least awhile, you need another GAL thing.
Last but Not least, you MUST GAL to Detach.... There are other reasons to GAL but you simply cannot Detach, without GAL.
You need one to do the other...
For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, (even in the winter).
I had 3 kids, including a baby (so it's VERY hard for me to hear about how 'busy' you are, or 'too busy' to GAL).
Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life.
IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w.
I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.
I coached a girl's softball team two summers (my older D was on it one year).
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, ( our son wrestled).
I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.
I did stand up comedy And yes, I still do it. I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Hollywood Improv. (And It went very well! Turns out a lot of folks related).
I learned to cross country ski, & got better at downhill skiing.
I learned to become a target shooter. I became an expert marksman.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish. I got a caribou on a trip and my family ate it for most of the year.
I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
OMG I loved riding it.
Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license. (Bucket list item!!)
Went skydiving (Also a bucket list item). Loved it so much I did it again for my 50th birthday. And I plan on doing it again, soon!
I edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)
I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent physical shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. I then found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs. Made a new friend.
(Plus I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark of their long LONG cold winters. But I"m here to say it CAN be done).
Saw a therapist and for some months, I went on ADs.
Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).
Joined the Officer's Wives club after 15 years of active duty & Ignoring them..
(Wish I had joined sooner! There, I met two women who are life long friends to this day.)
Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French --Fun class and good for the brain.
Took a class in Italian cooking--still delicious
There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot.
Oh, and other than pilot training/sky diving, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.
The more you involve yourself in other's lives and projects, the less painful your situation becomes. And detachment begins.
Keep on keeping on. I KNOW that around the corner are GOOD things for you.
25yearsmlc....sorry to T/J but could you stop over at my thread on newcomers titled...Everyone was right...especially 25yearsmlc?
Thank you..
Wow, lots of things to ponder and reflect on. This is not going to be super organized, but here goes..
labug: As to why I don't believe him when he says it's just "who he is" - that feels like a cop out. The whole "it's not you, it's me" thing generally means "I'm just not into you anymore but want to let you down easy." Heck, I said "it's not you, it's me" to a boyfriend before H when really I dumped him because I was super embarrassed of his social skills (or lack thereof). And why not say that, then? And saying it's just "who he is" is so vague. What exactly about who he is prompted him to do this? He hasn't said. You talked about how some people just aren't up for the challenge. I guess I still don't even get what was challenging - things seemed normal and fine to me. Maybe just the basic obligations/idea of being committed surpassed his challenge level?
25- The more I think about what his reasons could be for leaving me .. the more I realize that no reason would be satisfactory/not have me thinking "well if it's X, why didn't he try Y?" If he was just not in love with me, why didn't he make a choice to be in love and do the work to rekindle that? If he found someone else more compatible, why wouldn't he try and talk to me about what he liked about her and see if that was transferable? MAYBE him having some sort of brain chemical imbalance/depression/mood disorder/neurological thing (like your virus??) would allow me to say "OK, I guess there's nothing he could have done to not feel how he was feeling." But then it'd have to be that he really had no idea that was the issue.. otherwise I'd be asking "why didn't you seek help or medication?"
So, no, there is most likely not an answer for "why" he is doing this that would make more sense to me or make me think "oh, ok, I get it. I see why you felt like you had to do this."
Upon further reflection, I think it's boiling down again to perceptions of others. I want to be able to have a one or two sentence elevator speech for what happened, to tell other family and friends, that makes it about H and not about me. And right now I don't have that, and I want H to provide me something I can use for that, but he can't. If I had to summarize what happened right now, it'd be something like "I'm not sure what happened, he just wasn't happy." And I don't like how that might reflect on me, because it could mean I was a crazy b*tch, or that I was completely clueless about his needs and wants, or didn't listen to anything he said, or who knows what. But people have no way of knowing. I know I shouldn't care what they think, I know it doesn't matter, I know I don't owe anyone an explanation. If I was completely starting over in a new place and a new city and no one knew I was married I don't think this would bother me as much. But I feel this compelling need to explain why it's not my fault and that I didn't want this, but there's not an easy way to do that.
I have some more work to do, obviously! Today we had an "wisdom lunch" where someone who has been working in my profession for a long time shares their wisdom. This person in particular I used to work with directly, and actually lives/lived? a few doors down from my house. Anyways, this person has also gone through some very trying times, but has a few more years on me (about 30!) to base his experiences on. He shared some reflective quotes that really resonated with me, and maybe will for some of you, too:
-a quote from Edwin Freidman: "The colossal misunderstanding of our time is the assumption that insight will work with people who are unmotivated to change. Communication does not depend on syntax, or eloquence, or rhetoric, or articulation but on the emotional context in which the message is being heard. People can only hear you when they are moving toward you, and they are not likely to when your words are pursuing them. Even the choicest words lose their power when they are used to overpower. Attitudes are the real figures of speech."
This is something I knew that I already knew. It's the basic tenant of motivational interviewing/counseling - you can't help people change that don't want to be changed. Maybe it's the universe reminding me of what I need to return to?
-and a quote from Will Rogers: "It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." Self-explanatory, I think.
Speaking of things I already know, I think that also hasn't been helping this situation. I have a master's degree in social work and work in a counseling-type profession, so when others I interact with aren't following that template (active listening, not interrupting, using "I" statements, opening up to others, addressing/speaking your needs) it's very frustrating. I have to remember that not everyone knows how to converse like that, and that I shouldn't expect them to just do that naturally... especially H (who was a business major who avoided all social justice/counseling/feelings-type coursework and experiences).
I do need to work on GAL more. I was doing OK but it's really slipped up in the past couple weeks. Work has gotten the better of me in terms of coming home at 6pm and all I have the energy for is eating, watching TV, and going to sleep. I know I shouldn't use that as an excuse and instead figure out ways to delegate some things or take them off of my plate. Here's hoping Thanksgiving and winter break gives me some time to recharge and use my energy towards other activities. As an introvert who works in a talking profession I get so wiped after spending 6+ hours talking to people in a day :S
Wow, lots of things to ponder and reflect on. This is not going to be super organized, but here goes..
labug: As to why I don't believe him when he says it's just "who he is" - that feels like a cop out. The whole "it's not you, it's me" thing generally means "I'm just not into you anymore but want to let you down easy." Heck, I said "it's not you, it's me" to a boyfriend before H when really I dumped him because I was super embarrassed of his social skills (or lack thereof). And why not say that, then? And saying it's just "who he is" is so vague. What exactly about who he is prompted him to do this? He hasn't said. You talked about how some people just aren't up for the challenge. I guess I still don't even get what was challenging - things seemed normal and fine to me. Maybe just the basic obligations/idea of being committed surpassed his challenge level.
This may sound like a 2x4 but you and I have known each other a long time here. I don't think anyone learns by being beaten about the head.
That being said, who made you judge of whether he's copping out and if he is, isn't that good information to have? This is who he is. He blames you for all the unhappiness in his life. He said he felt forced into marriage, or something close to that.
What if he came to you with a list of whys. What would you do with that? Would you believe him then?
Set yourself a small goal for doing GAL this week. Do something nice for yourself while you're at it.
I don't think that was too harsh, so I'm ok
I see what you're saying. I think I'm having trouble accepting that this behavior/"who he is"/the copping out is reality because it's not at all what I value in people, and I don't want to be around such people... because then that means I'm really no longer interested in him and it's time to let him go. He's not who I thought he was, or what I wanted him to be. And that's a very difficult thing to come to terms with, I guess.
I did a little GAL thing today - an old friend from high school asked about getting together for lunch. Normally I'd be "meh" about getting together on such short notice, but I figured why not? It was good to get together and catch up. Of course, the topic of H came up. Friend told me that she never wanted to say this before because of how I might react... but apparently she and another friend (we'll call other friend "E") were out somewhere and ran into H sometime a little before our wedding. According to my friend, H kept talking to E (she felt like he was hitting on her.. who knows) and then afterwards got in touch with my friend to suggest they all hang out together and asked for E's contact info. =| Not the best thing to hear, but maybe he's just really always been someone other than I thought and I just wasn't fully aware (or ignored it). It doesn't really matter at this point so I'm not going to dwell on it or try and confirm whether or not it happened like how she says, but it adds another nail to the coffin of the person I thought H was. Friend is pretty anti-H (told me "he's always been a d*ck, sorry to say") so it could be a skewed story... but I don't want to be with someone that people are telling stories about and that I have to constantly worry about when they go places w/out me.
So thinking more about my last post... I knew all these things about H, I just chose to "forgive him" (which really meant holding on to it and hanging it over his head later/bringing it up when he did a similar thing again) and hope that he'd not do that stuff again. But he kept doing it anyway - IMs to a girl from our high school saying they could get together during Thanksgiving and I wouldn't have to know, breaking up with me in college to email a girl in one of his classes to ask about getting together now that he didn't have a girlfriend (and then wanting to get back with me when she said no), breaking up with me again to "see what's out there", and so on and so forth. Now it's a pattern and I think it's time for me to just accept that that's who he is (always looking for what else might be out there, I guess?) and without some significant change or something to show me that's different, it's time to let go of him. I would ask for change in the past, but he wouldn't do it, and I'd just be happy he came back so I let it slide. This behavior has only cont'd to make me sad over time - I don't want that in my life.
So thinking more about my last post... I knew all these things about H, I just chose to "forgive him" (which really meant holding on to it and hanging it over his head later/bringing it up when he did a similar thing again) and hope that he'd not do that stuff again. But he kept doing it anyway - IMs to a girl from our high school saying they could get together during Thanksgiving and I wouldn't have to know, breaking up with me in college to email a girl in one of his classes to ask about getting together now that he didn't have a girlfriend (and then wanting to get back with me when she said no), breaking up with me again to "see what's out there", and so on and so forth. Now it's a pattern
wow, that IS a pattern and has been for awhile....geez. Man, I think he's done you a favor.
Your one liner for the elevator can be "turns out, he didn't want to be married." The end. Seriously, there's not going go a big follow up with that and it's not really blaming him but it's not you taking it on either. And, it's true.
and I think it's time for me to just accept that that's who he is (always looking for what else might be out there, I guess?) and without some significant change or something to show me that's different, it's time to let go of him.
I would ask for change in the past, but he wouldn't do it, and I'd just be happy he came back so I let it slide. This behavior has only cont'd to make me sad over time - I don't want that in my life.
Well It's clearly not behavior designed to make you feel good, that's for sure. You'd always feel like his back up plan and by your dating history, you were.
You can now meet someone who "gets" you and be a priority in their life. Once you see how that feels, you will NOT miss your ex h.
About the elevator response, that's a good one but lets take this a step further.
Do you see how you give up your power in trying to answer questions nosy, almost strangers might ask? Decide who's on your need to know list, going from who you feel gets the whole story out to who gets the "he didn't want to be married" response. I think you'll find most people are in the latter category. You own your power when you decide who gets to hear what.
You give up power when you think you have to answer questions from people with no personal stake in your life and that it matters how they judge you.
You're doing great, K. I think your fog is starting to roll out.
I like that answer better
"You give up power when you think you have to answer questions from people with no personal stake in your life and that it matters how they judge you." - yes, that's it, I'm worried about how they'll judge me unless I spill everything. The whole caring so much about what others think is something I need to work on (though, probably a thing for most people, I think).
I am kind of scared that as the fog leaves, I'll find that maybe I do believe he did me a favor, and maybe this is actually a good thing :S which to me means now I'm being like him and just giving up. There were plenty of times where he betrayed my trust and was disloyal, without actually physically cheating on me. 25 - there was some earlier point where someone else posted to me, quite bluntly, that I was always H's plan B. At the time and up until recently I heard that but didn't necessarily want to believe it. I thought that maybe he was just confused, he didn't realize what he had, and he could come around like some sort of fairytale and tell me he realized how great I was and I really was his first choice. Well, that hasn't happened in almost a year now, and it may well not happen ever, so I guess I need to give up that fantasy.
KGirl- I'm new here but I'm struggling with the elevator speech as well. Close, and I mean close friends know. I just struggle with everything/everyone else. There's not a healthy way of putting "my husband bottled up 31 years of emotions and blames all his life problems on me. I don't know if we will work out, doubtful, as I'm apparently the most manipulative woman in the world!"
Makes me sound horrible and him sound, well, I don't know what it makes him sound.
"We are having issues, and my husband chose to leave me to figure it out?" Yuck.
I've kept deathly quiet for the (short) duration of my stitch because I'm worried about what others will think. My marriage is on the rocks, and I'm worried about a random coworker who I see maybe once a month giving me a pitying look at the holiday party. WTF? I need to let go as well.
As for everything else - I think you've been handling it with poise and grace. I don't think that giving up means you're just like him. Perhaps you're letting yourself be free - in whatever since that might bring you.
How is that giving up rather than responding to the reality of your situation?
We have control of only ourselves, We can't make someone be who we think we need them to be.
And just so you know, I used to be an over-sharer because I had to explain everything so others could see that I had been right in the situation. Most people don't give a flying F.
Ego. Let it go.
Because then I'm not really "trying" to bust the D, I guess, or rebuild our M. I'm just letting the D happen. But that's really the only option available to me at this point.
Hmm... yep, I do have that same problem (want to explain everything to others to show I am right).
So I know what's holding me back. Fear of judgment from others, fear of feeling like I gave up on the M if I believe that maybe this is for the best/he was not a good partner, feeling stuck wondering why he's doing this. How do I get past those things? I feel like I don't know what to "do" (or do I know and I just don't realize it?)
Hi KGirl,
Sorry to hear that you are so hurt with all what is happening.
I read so much of the negative side of the story, but you have been with this men for so long... you are here too. So you know that there is some good in him. Maybe there are some issues to work on if you two get together again, but you came to these boards because you believe you did not want to loose him.
I get all the need to explain and expose the situation to others, but some people are like snakes and they take great joy in putting someone down. A real friend will give you advice to help you and maybe even protect you, but a real friend won't let you down, they will respect your opinion, they will ask what you want to do and help you to get there, even when they don't agree with you.
Don't feel your heart with gossip and venous comments, it will just stop you from being a great person. Follow your instincts, and if it comes to leaving your H, then you will do it because it's best for you alone.
You can be your best friend, I know it, sometimes I look in the mirror and I know I can't lie to myself and I know what I want, even if it is against all opinions, all odds.
What about your goals, your 180s, GAL. I know that being here is also a learning process of how to change our actions and this way change H reactions.
Take a step back and balance the good and the bad, maybe you can find your answers inside your heart. Remember that when you say you are done will be because you did all you could to save you M.
And do what Michelle says... patient, patient and patient. If after all the hard work you realize that you will be better off without H, then you will be free for the next step in your life, and will be happy too.
Just a though... I am new to all this, have big problems with my H, his affair, I have bad days and good ones, I am learning how to detach, how to love someone from the distance, how to set boundaries, well a whole deal of new me. So, it's just a though to storm your thinking.
Good luck in your journey, hope you find some peace within yourself.
A big nice hug to you sunshine.
Pink
Remember your own words...
So thinking more about my last post... I knew all these things about H, I just chose to "forgive him" (which really meant holding on to it and hanging it over his head later/bringing it up when he did a similar thing again) and hope that he'd not do that stuff again. But he kept doing it anyway - IMs to a girl from our high school saying they could get together during Thanksgiving and I wouldn't have to know, breaking up with me in college to email a girl in one of his classes to ask about getting together now that he didn't have a girlfriend (and then wanting to get back with me when she said no), breaking up with me again to "see what's out there", and so on and so forth. Now it's a pattern
First of all, it IS a pattern. That's not really in doubt, is it? He isn't the type of man to be true, to YOU.
IMO this is a character flaw in HIM, not you. But if he ends up being true to someone else, that still says nothing about you. It MIGHT mean he learned a lesson but frankly, chances are he'll keep cheating until if and when he can't anymore.
Second, HE SAYS/ACTS LIKE he wants out of the marriage. So, what is it that you feel you need to work on in terms of your interactions with him? What does "not" giving up look like?
The real question is, what are your options NOW?
"Giving up"....versus what?? Pursuing him? Waiting around for him to wake up?
Even if pursuing him was somehow a desirable goal, --you already did that, and the pattern was established. It did not work b/c he breaks boundaries when they don't suit him, and you forgive him, sort of, and he does it again...
So what indication is there, that pursuing him would have a better result now?
I don't think You want that dynamic in your life.
But are you are still hoping that he will change and become what he has never before been, i.e. a man who cherishes you and places high value on your company? A man who will keep his vows? I would love to encourage you in that vein, but I can't.
I don't get any of that from what you're saying about him.
At this point, he's not indicating any interest in changing in a way that improves your situation. I mean, he says it's over, correct?
I know you came here hoping we'd have the magic bullet but it really does boil down to working on ourselves and becoming our best (and most content) selves and generally that attracts most other people into our lives.
But not all of them. The good news is that by becoming our best most content selves, the less healthy people in our lives tend to matter less, truly.
How are your GAL activities going? They really do help. That's why we hammer them so much- B/c they work. DO give that a serious effort b/c you owe that to yourself.
As for what to tell others, gosh LaBug has some good points. Actually I think the two types of people who will ask
will mostly be those who really care -and those who value gossip.
Even the latter group are not usually "Evil", they might even shy away from wanting to know more b/c you'll hit close to home if you show that you did not want the divorce.
Once I overheard a CEO answer a question about his divorce, from someone I Think was a friend. They sounded surprised that he was "no longer married to Suzie" and the CEO said "she wanted the divorce, not me..."
And there was a silence in the room b/c a lot of us over heard it. Then the friend said something like "Well, HER loss" and the two went on their way...
my point is that as soon as we realized "oh, ouch that must have hurt", we did not pry OR judge as far as I know....we just felt bad for him. And a few of the women almost immediately began to think of who to set him up with!
You know, that could happen too....Why do you fear that you'll someday think he did you a favor? B/c it will mean what, about you? That you were foolish or blind?
Why can't you just see it as a gift? I still say - better late than never.
I'm sorry for your pain. Yet when I say "His loss", I really mean it.
Thanks, 25 (can I add that I'm not sure if it's a good thing or bad thing you've been posting on my thread because usually I see you posting on the people who are really struggling?? :S). Yes, there is a pattern. Lots of other people (friends, family) have seen it and commented on it in the past and still today. H himself even said around the time of BD "I just think I'll end up cheating on you at some point if we stay together because I'll always be wondering what else is out there." I guess I've been willing to always keep trying because he's never actually physically cheated, at least not that I know of. I think I'm just still angry that he or I didn't figure this out and end things before we got this far down the line (marriage, house, pets, etc.) Maybe we just didn't know what else to do. My mom even said recently "You guys were together so long.. marriage seemed like the natural next step.. and you'd think given how long you were together you'd be able to get through anything."
You are completely right that pursuing has not and will not help. All of the other times I pursued him so hard that I may have just convinced him to stay with me, and I shouldn't have to convince someone so hard to do that. It doesn't bode well. And you are also right that I still am secretly hoping he'll change and realize how great I am and how much he'll be losing and rededicate himself to our M. But there are surely no signs of that being likely to happen.
I've been tempted at times when talking with people I know a little better to say "he wanted it, not me," but I felt like that was really throwing him under the bus and not being my best self by saying that. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much about protecting him? I'm not really bad mouthing him, just stating the truth, in a pretty simple way. And yes, I think I am fearful about truly believing he did me a favor because that will mean I made a poor choice in choosing who to marry first.. and how can I ensure I don't make a similarly poor choice in the future (especially since I don't really know what I should be looking for the next time around, given he hasn't been able to articulate "why" he needed to do this, beyond looking for someone that just loves me/wants to marry me without me having to convince them).
I posted on FB about how this year has been the toughest of my (relatively short) life so far, and how I am so thankful for the friends/family/colleagues who have been there to support me or lend a hand or give a shoulder to cry on.. and how I am thankful for the basics (food, transportation, food to eat) as well as the knowledge and tools to turn adversity into a learning experience. I got an outpouring of messages and comments that were very positive and loving.. it's been very comforting to know there are so many people out there that care, and I shouldn't let one [insert some sort of negative adjective] person bring me down so much.
On the downside, this morning at 6am I logged into my bank account to see how much money I had for Black Friday. Some of you might recall that I posted about a month ago about H still not changing the electric bill to his own account (which he was supposed to do back in July). He had assured me several months in a row that THIS was the month it'd definitely be taken care of. At the end of October I stated my boundary - if he did not change it again, I would cancel my direct deposit, and withdraw my money from the joint checking, so he can do whatever he wants with what's left in it, not my problem anymore. Low and behold, this morning I discovered it deducted again from the joint account. I'm somewhat embarrassed to say I did not handle that very well... but it could have been much worse (I am still pretty furious). My first email went something like "The MG&E bill deducted again from the joint checking. Help me understand what's happening. Is it not working properly or did you forget to do it? Please change this ASAP and send me confirmation that you did it. You had told me that one of the things you were unhappy with was me nagging you to do things and I have been working very hard to let things go/not ask you about things, but this is getting ridiculous." Not good, I know. But could have been worse.
A half hour later I wrote again and said "Now that I'm a little calmer I can respond to this more rationally.. I'll be moving forward with what I said I'd do before if this wasn't changed. I'll be submitting the paperwork to cancel the direct deposit from my paycheck and once that's confirmed, I will take my half of the money out of the account. You can do whatever you want with your half. If you leave the account open, though, you may have to pay monthly fees if it's not below the minimum balance." So, boundary will be enforced, I gave him fair warning about the implications and what might happen with the fees. I'm starting to look forward to the D in some ways because I am tired of dealing with all the downsides to being M (worrying if bills are paid, my name on a house and wondering if it's been taken care of, etc.) and none of the positives (having a partner, shared income, etc.) And, I'm really anxious about his reply, though I don't know why exactly - maybe because I'm worried he'll somehow put it back on me/make me think I'm crazy or being unreasonable (which is a pattern for us, too). Before when I questioned him/pushed him on something different he responded with "I thought we could do this amicably, are you not going to be able to do that now?" which I think was a little bit unreasonable in the context, so I guess that's what I'm worried about - he'll see it as being adversarial and then get adversarial back.
He can only put it back on you if you let him.
About next time, this is a good start: someone that just loves me/wants to marry me without me having to convince them.
That and giving yourself time to believe in your worth.
I spent some time today working on my grief/rebuilding work. I'm putting aside the books on relationships and Ms and all of that, and instead am reading about rebuilding when your relationship ends. What I'm reading walks you through different phases/steps and encourages you to do as much work as you can in one before going on to the next. I feel confident in saying I'm definitely past the denial stage, and have identified my fears (being unloveable, financial concerns, being alone, what will people think) and am working on embracing them and thinking about if they're really that scary. I worked mostly on the grief section today and wrote a "goodbye" letter - not only as a goodbye to H but also to the other things and dreams were lost (but hopefully will be regained one day!) The example letter also said goodbye to the negative things, so I pondered that for awhile and said goodbye to H's disloyalty and constant need to stray. I said goodbye to fantasy sports and video games, too
It was good to put it out there, and then be able to put it aside. I think I've moved past the biggest hurdles and am ready for the next chapter: anger (sounds.. fun?? :S). One of the sections talked about why relationships may end, and one that struck a chord with me was the over-responsible/under-responsible dynamic, particularly when the under-responsible person feels like they're being "parented" and then has to rebel/"be free." Even though H can't tell me why for sure, that helped add some insight into what may have happened, and things to keep in mind for the future so as to not repeat this.
Hmmmm. That might be a dynamic in my R.
One of our R issues was that I was definitely the only responsible party, to the point I felt like if -I- didn't do things, they wouldn't get done. It was a major part of why I started to pull away from him, because talking about it turned to nagging about it turned to being pretty upset I was living with a purposefully helpless adult when I needed a partner.
Anyway, when we split he told me he felt like I was his mother; I cooked and I cleaned, but we were "never" physically intimate (a gross exaggeration, I note). I asked him if he thought I enjoyed that role, and he had no answer for me.
Maybe some of the same stuff is going on in my sitch.
Little, I think it's popped up as a pretty common dynamic here! That same theme is also in a lot of the codependency literature - feeling like you have to have control and take everything over, helping people when they don't ask and getting upset when they don't acknowledge it, etc. But, you know.. even when that's the case, H had opportunities to tell me how he was feeling. He didn't. He made choices. And I did give him opportunities to take care of things on his own.. but then he did not do them (see all of my posts in the past few months about changing the electric bill which as of today he finally took care of... almost 6 months later). What I've been trying to do is think about WHY I felt the need to be over-responsible in hopes of trying to reduce that. I think it stems from a few things:
-needing to control the situation ("If I know exactly what's happening and what's in the calendar and where I put this and what I bought for dinner, bad things can't happen to me")
-fear of rejection and abandonment ("If I do all these things to take care of him/our household, there's no way he'd ever want to leave, what more could he want in life??")
Obviously, neither of those things were resolved by being over-responsible. I had a history of feeling rejected/abandoned by H so I don't think that came out of nowhere/was a crazy fear... so maybe the only way to truly resolve that is with someone else (unless things drastically change).
Interestingly my H told me he wanted someone to be like his mother (take care of things for him and not expect him to do things) but that he would also feel a spark with and be sexual with. Not sure how that all works together.. I doubt he knows, either. His mom basically took care of everything for him and then he treated her like cr*p (SIL's words, not mine) and she just put up with it because she was devoted to her kids. The most recent example was last winter before BD, we bought a big snow blower and he asked his mom to come pick it up in her minivan and take it to our house. She lives an hour away from us. Then he complained about how she loaded it into the van and she just said "I'm sorry" and fixed it. I don't know what exactly he's looking for but based on what I do know, that's sure not me.
I think I need to go read some of my earlier posts to show 1) that things are really better and I can handle this, 2) to remind myself of the reasons H told me why he didn't want to be M so I don't feel so much like I have no idea why this happened. I know there were things he told me but I think I kind of blocked them out or dismissed them as ridiculous. I need to get a better picture now that I'm farther removed from that time (when we lived together and I was asking a lot of questions/pushing for answers).
PS - H responded to my inquiries about the electric bill and said he had changed what he could online but he actually had to talk to an employee there to finish it. He then went on to say we had to "meet to take care of everything else" but that he wouldn't be filing until mid-December because he's "traveling a lot for work in December and January" and so didn't know if I'd rather sign now or wait until when he'll actually be filing it. Not sure why that matters but whatever. And then ended with "Let me know if you have any questions." I actually started typing "Yeah, I do.. why exactly do you feel like this is the only answer for you?" and then deleted it before sending it :|
(((K-Girl)))
You are so going to rock the next phase of your life.
Thank you for the vote of confidence, claire! I just got done eating dinner and for most of it I struggled with thoughts like "what the h*ll am I going to do? How can I go on? How will I ever date anyone else? I'm going to be thirty soon and single. There's no point to any of this." Your message came at just the right time
I just got done eating dinner and for most of it I struggled with thoughts like "what the h*ll am I going to do? How can I go on? How will I ever date anyone else? I'm going to be thirty soon and single. There's no point to any of this." Your message came at just the right time
28 years old is a babe in the woods. I am pushing 50, single, and I am okay! You've got your whole life ahead of you so make the most out of it, KGirl.
I didn't even meet my H till I was 30! You got a Lotta life left in you K Girl!!
28 years old is a babe in the woods. I am pushing 50, single, and I am okay! You've got your whole life ahead of you so make the most out of it, KGirl.
Ditto (except technically not single yet.) KGirl, you could be my daughter without any scandal whatsoever. Go live your life, sweetie, you are young, have some fun.
So a little late to the party but I just wanted to say that I thought you handled that conversation with class..I know it would have been a huge struggle for me to even say half of what you did. Wish you nothing but the best, and remember, lots of couples have got back together even after papers or the D was done, so don't lose faith if that's what you still want!
Little, I think it's popped up as a pretty common dynamic here! That same theme is also in a lot of the codependency literature - feeling like you have to have control and take everything over, helping people when they don't ask and getting upset when they don't acknowledge it, etc. But, you know.. even when that's the case, H had opportunities to tell me how he was feeling. He didn't. He made choices. And I did give him opportunities to take care of things on his own.. but then he did not do them (see all of my posts in the past few months about changing the electric bill which as of today he finally took care of... almost 6 months later). What I've been trying to do is think about WHY I felt the need to be over-responsible in hopes of trying to reduce that. I think it stems from a few things:
-needing to control the situation ("If I know exactly what's happening and what's in the calendar and where I put this and what I bought for dinner, bad things can't happen to me")
-fear of rejection and abandonment ("If I do all these things to take care of him/our household, there's no way he'd ever want to leave, what more could he want in life??")
Obviously, neither of those things were resolved by being over-responsible. I had a history of feeling rejected/abandoned by H so I don't think that came out of nowhere/was a crazy fear... so maybe the only way to truly resolve that is with someone else (unless things drastically change).
Interestingly my H told me he wanted someone to be like his mother (take care of things for him and not expect him to do things) but that he would also feel a spark with and be sexual with. Not sure how that all works together.. I doubt he knows, either. His mom basically took care of everything for him and then he treated her like cr*p (SIL's words, not mine) and she just put up with it because she was devoted to her kids. The most recent example was last winter before BD, we bought a big snow blower and he asked his mom to come pick it up in her minivan and take it to our house. She lives an hour away from us. Then he complained about how she loaded it into the van and she just said "I'm sorry" and fixed it. I don't know what exactly he's looking for but based on what I do know, that's sure not me.
If you met someone today that acted that way and they wanted to date you, would you go out with him?
Thank you all for the reminder that I'm still young (sincerely, not sarcastically!) - I really shouldn't be complaining because I am relatively young and many of my friends are just in relationships/newly married. Lots of time to start over, but I am scared that that also gives me more time for this to happen to me again. Confession - I found out a guy in my apartment building is a grad student in the dept. I work in. I looked him up on our dept. website, and his picture was pretty cute.. and then I saw he finished his bachelor's degree in 2013. So unless he took some time off at some point, he's probably 23
That made me feel "old".. and I have learned I am a terrible judge of age!
I don't know many people my age that are divorced (or that I want to emulate/be like, anyway) so that is tough. I also didn't really date seriously or had other relationships before H so the not knowing what's out there or how this all works is also scary. I mean, at this point (I guess my mind could change) I don't feel comfortable getting physical with someone unless I really like them and am in a relationship... maybe even love them. Is there going to be guys out there in their 30's who are willing to wait for that? :S blah. It is tempting to set up an online dating profile just to see what's out there and chat with people, even though I'm not really interested in starting anything.. just to see it's possible.
So I'm in the "anger" section of the book I'm reading on rebuilding after a relationship ends. It says "People who answer 'yes' to 'I blame my former partner for the end of our relationship' have not fully dealt with their anger yet." I'm not sure how I feel about that. I do blame H for the D, that's for sure. He wanted it, I didn't, I did not see it coming. Did I contribute to things that were harmful in our M? Yes. But I did not choose D as the solution to them, he did. So is it really "wrong" or unhealthy for me to blame him? Or am I really not "there" yet if I still think that?
Paul - no, I would not be interested in this person. It's hard for me to say if this was always like this and I just chose to ignore it, or if things changed/got worse over time. Either way, what I miss is who I thought he used to be (whether it's what I thought or what he actually was maybe doesn't matter at this point), not who he actually is now. I miss the status of being M, some of the dreams and goals, and material things, not really him as a person. I guess that's why I'm not so much actively doing things to try to bring him back or save our M (reading books on relationships, etc.) and just focusing on me and trying to build myself back up.
KGirl,
You are so young... don't worry so much about age, it's better to worry about what you do with the time you are breathing.
What about looking good, going back to school and do something you enjoy, go out "not looking for a date" but feeling good about every minute you have to be happy.
About feeling angry... let yourself feel all the steps of grief, it will allow you to feel better with time and there will be no guilt. You sure collaborate for the deterioration of your M, but H also did. Life is a learning process and recognizing your failures and your successes will give you a much better chance to be happy in the future... with or without your H.
Be patient with yourself... sometimes it's very confusing to understand if taking care of the practical side of life is controlling or not... in my opinion, I think some people are very responsible and there is nothing wrong with it, and some people are not and they like to rely on others to do the dirt work. I also struggle with this with my H, once I gave him all our bills and info to make payments online... I tough was easy for him, but I found out we had a lot of late fees the next month... so I took it back.
My fault that it happen? No, I don't think so, I think I am just a very real person with simple expectations. Do what you need to do to live everyday in our society.
Try do no stress yourself thinking your qualities are the problem here... one thing is for sure, you will do well for yourself always, you have a thinking head and knows what it takes to have a responsible life... now about your H, who knows, maybe he will struggle even more if you are not there to take care after stuff.
Please, feel young, beautiful, charming, you got it. I am almost 50 and I am feeling pretty sexy these days. With D or not I lost some of the weight I was struggling to lose and now I feel really good.
Hang in there sweetie, give time for your heart to heal, it won't happen overnight. And keep some faith, detach and see what happens when H sees your are moving on with your life.
Most of the time we value more what we think we are loosing.
Hugs!
Pink
K- this isn't directed as interest in you personally so don't misunderstand me. But as a 35 year old male I've had some time to think about what I might look for in my next R.
-I've been with two women. My gf of 5 years and my STBX of 10. I wouldn't want to be physical with a woman outside of a LTR. And that is what I'd be interested in. I wouldn't want a woman that values this less than me.
-a woman who has been divorced by a WAH has struck me as a appealing option vs never married. We'd have common experience and perspective on what a M is and what it takes. Someone that is ready to work and stick it out through the seasons, that takes vows seriously, that is looking for a lifelong partnership vs a Disney soulmate that cannot b achieved- this would be a plus.
It would be hard for me to trust someone that hasn't been through this because though everyone says they don't believe in divorce, they find out they do when things get tough or stagnant. I think you bring the experience and character that a lot of quite guys would appreciate. So there is a match out there if your H doesn't wake up. Have faith.
And agreed about blame. I don blame everything on WAS, but she ultimately made the decision that I never would have made. To end the M and break our commitment. So I blame her for ending things when things for tough. I just don't blame things being tough all on her.
KGirl, I know this is all scary, but honestly I kind of envy you doing this at 28 instead of 49 like me. Where am I gonna get a guy that's not been M two or three times, that doesn't have a bunch of kids, that isn't set in his ways, that takes care of himself well enough to meet my standards? I take a look around in the places I go and my H is the best thing out there not wearing a wedding band.
Take a leap of faith, girl. When you are ready, of course.
Sometimes the end of the marriage comes before choosing D.
We can wish otherwise but that's the reality.
Zues - I appreciate that, it's reassuring. When I picture guys who are still single in their early 30's I picture the player types who do the whole one-night stand thing and aren't interested in settling down. It's hard to imagine there are any decent guys out there who aren't already "taken" (and it's still relatively early for them to b D'ed). The only people that have shown interest in me lately have been coming on a little too strongly and in unsettling ways (like stalking me on linkedin) so it hasn't exactly been a confidence booster!
labug - Yes, that is true. But how do I know that without being inside H's head? And what if I really don't believe I did anything that was worthy of marriage-ending? Is it still unhealthy for me to say that I place a lot of blame on H for ending up being D'ed?
KG, I think Zues summed it up perfectly. You are not perfect, far from it-none of us are. But you are choosing to not break your M vows. You and your H said these vows in front of friends, family and God and you are living up to YOUR PART of the agreement. I've been thinking about that "better or worse" line quite a bit lately…seems like too many people just say it and like Zues said, a lot of people don't take it seriously when things get tough…well, for all of us on these boards right now, this is about as "worse" as it is going to get. It's times like these that literally make or break marriages because one person just wants to give up and thinks that they will find something better-they'll have reality hit them sooner or later. It's these same people that have been divorced 4 times and wonder why they still aren't happy.
From what I read from your thread, nothing you did IMO was enough to break up a M over…but your H is making that choice to call it quits when things are rough. He doesn't quite get it like you do, that when you said those vows, you actually meant every single word of it. Someday, he'll wake up and realize that he just lost the best thing that ever happened to him. Whether you are there for that moment is really up to you and how long you are willing to wait for him to wake up, if you want to do that at all. Keep your head above water, you'll be more than ok no matter what happens.
R"Either way, what I miss is who I thought he used to be (whether it's what I thought or what he actually was maybe doesn't matter at this point), not who he actually is now. "
I have/had the exact same issue with my STBXW. I think even others here pointed it out. I know family and friends did too. I still struggle with it. I am sorry for your pain.
KGirl,
This fear of being alone, the rejection, feeling humiliated, empty, the pain that burns our hearts, the horrible stomach ache that never goes away... it's all part of the grief, healing is painful at first, but eventually it happens.
Now, why are you so negative, why you think your H is done and things will never change? How do you know he is so done with you? Is this just a feeling or he made it clear he is done?
Remember, you can't mind read, you can't believe in what they say and just believe some of what they do. Only time will tell if there is any chance for your M to be safe.
I am now in that phase where I think H is totally done with me but then I ask myself why he didn't file yet, why he text me and call me frequently? Makes me think that only death is forever.
Life keep changing and I am changing and he is also changing...maybe it's done and maybe at some point there will be a tough of maybe things can work out well. I don't know as well as you don't know. Only time will tell.
I know we want everything resolved right away, and we read stories of people that tried their best and yet got the D. But there are some that could restore their M. Then, it's up to us to decide if we have the patient to wait until we drop the rope.
Michele always advise that the work is hard and the road is a long one. There is no guarantees, but there is always hope.
Hang in there and try to find out what you want.
Hugs
Pink
labug - Yes, that is true. But how do I know that without being inside H's head? And what if I really don't believe I did anything that was worthy of marriage-ending? Is it still unhealthy for me to say that I place a lot of blame on H for ending up being D'ed?
I don't think you have to be inside his head to look back and examine what happened.
You can make your own assessment.
Why does blame need to be placed? How does that make you more whole?
I like the way you're working through this.
When I picture guys who are still single in their early 30's I picture the player types who do the whole one-night stand thing and aren't interested in settling down. It's hard to imagine there are any decent guys out there who aren't already "taken" (and it's still relatively early for them to b D'ed).
I have similar thoughts about girls our age, KGirl. But if the two of us are thinking the same thing, there haven't be thousands of others like us out there. Just be patient and don't rush anything
KGirl - I'm not a guy obviously, but I intentionally did not marry until I was in my 30s because I wanted to experience life on my own, establish career, travel extensively etc, before I got married and had a family (and acutally the twenty somethings I knew at the time never seemed like marriage material anyway). Trust me - there are guys out there for you and at 30 - still a fairly wide pool of them.
Why does blame need to be placed? How does that make you more whole?
This seems too obvious to me so I must not be thinking hard enough
We've talked a lot about how this really is all about him and who he is, and not about me. So then it has to be his fault, right? If I contributed largely or even 50/50 to this.. it's really not about him anymore, it's about both of us. And then that turns everything upside down from what we've been talking about for months, and means that I largely or at least 50/50 contributed to the downfall of this M, which means I'd have a different type of work to do than just accepting this is who he is and he didn't want to be M. I mean, it can't be both "this is all about him and not about me" but also "he is not to blame"...right??
OK, I took some time to look at my earlier posts. Lately I've been writing about not understanding the "why" or his reasons for wanting a D. I didn't feel this way 6-12 months ago, so I was looking for what had changed. I think what's changed is that in the beginning of all this, I clung to and noted anything he said about why he wasn't unhappy and took it all very seriously (so the reasons "why" were more forefront in my mind). I think what's different is that I've now had enough time to either:
A) toss some of the reasons because they were things that I didn't think I needed to work on/were not problematic in my life (like him feeling like I didn't trust him enough... well, no, why would I? Or my expectations about chores.. I don't think they were unreasonable) OR
B) Really put work into the reasons I did think were valid. Problem is, he either didn't see them because we were NC, or when he did see them/acknowledge them, he said it wasn't enough and that nothing was going to change his mind.
So, I think where I've gotten stuck lately is that I've tossed or changed most of the original reasons, which left me with not a lot to work with and therefore wonder why were still heading to D? Maybe what I need to be telling myself is "he had reasons, but they were either things I worked hard to fix, or they were things that would have changed who I am at my core in ways that would have made me unhappy about myself."
My sister shared an article today about reasons why you should marry the "complicated" girl. Of course, there are a bunch of comments from guys at the bottom like "this is the type of girl you RUN from" so maybe guys don't actually like this (and it's a little oversimplistic), but this is who I am and I don't think it's a bad thing. I'm not simple and I'm not easy and maybe that was too much for H.
"An unevolved man or a boy will always want the simple girl. He doesn’t want to have to work hard for anything, especially not a relationship. He doesn’t want to be challenged or confronted.
But, a real man knows that by being with a complicated girl, he will be better for it. At times, this girl can be difficult, but he knows her intentions are good. With healthy communication, the relationship will become stronger.
This is the type of girl you should marry. You may think it’s not what you want, but you want her. The easy girl will never satisfy you. She will be sweet but uninspiring. She will always leave you wanting more.
Even stubborn Mr. Big came to realize he didn’t want it easy, and he ended up cheating on Natasha… with Carrie.
Complicated girls are creative and, at times, emotional. She may also have a touch of what some people call “crazy” or “b*tchy.” But, no one will love you better. No one will make love to you with as much passion.
No one will encourage you to follow your dreams. You will have many deep conversations with her that make you question your beliefs and ideas. She will outsmart you on many occasions. It won’t always be easy, but it will be more satisfying and always entertaining.
A simple girl has a simple mind. Things won’t be so hard when you are with this girl; it will be calm seas and smooth sailing. This is the type of girl you probably imagine yourself marrying, not the one who is opinionated and smart, who doesn’t always agree.
But, if you want to be the best you can be and expand your mind and capabilities, marry the complicated girl.
Marry the girl who tells you exactly what she expects and follows through.
Marry the girl who demands your respect.
Marry the girl who can talk politics, even if her opinions are different from yours.
Marry the girl whose eyes flicker with passion about a number of different subjects.
Marry the girl who won’t let you get away with slacking on your talents.
Marry the girl who pushes you to be better every day.
Marry the girl with whom you sometimes fight.
Marry the girl who is your equal or greater."
^ I should note that I'm not advocating how this article was worded, nor that this is in any way the "right" way to be or that there's even a right or wrong thing (darn edit timeframes!!) Everyone's going to have people that are the right fit for them and that will look differently for everyone. That was just a good summary of how I'm feeling lately in terms of who I am and wanting to be more firm on my opinions/boundaries, and it's too bad that didn't fit with what H was looking for.
I love that article KGirl! Can we do a mass mail out to our WAHs? ;-)
Wait a minute, Carrie Bradshaw was complicated?
(actually I wasn't a watcher of SITC but I have seen a fair share of episodes. Maybe I missed those in which she showed complexity)
About your question to me, it can be because of his needs but it doesn't mean he has to be blamed for but if that makes it work for you, so be it.
I think always needing to place blame on the outside keeps us from looking inside. We shouldn't "blame" ourselves in a masochistic kind of way but rather take these moments as opportunities and ask what am I supposed to learn here.
Have you read the driving post I wrote on Maybell's thread? I think it relates to this discussion.
This is the pertinent part: Do you ever get into power struggles with other drivers? Maybe those who seemingly ignore the "Right lane closed ahead" signs and then want to be let into the line of traffic. Perhaps we decide they don't deserve to be let into the lane.
Why does that bother us? In the scheme of things, what difference does it make? Are we teaching them a lesson by not letting them in? Have we been caught in a similar position through no fault of our own? Why do we allow ourselves to get emotionally ensnared? What is it in us that makes it so important to win, when there really is no win. There isn't even a competition, except within us.
For me the answer is, there are rules and rules are to be followed. "Good" people follow the rules, "bad" people break rules and then expect to be treated like good people. "Bad" people deserve punishment. (I was a very black/white thinker) It doesn't take a neuroscientist to figure out where that comes from for me. The task is untangling all that programming in my present life. Disengaging from the past.
Then we can stop allowing the past to control us.
Labug I like your way of seeing things, I really feel through your words that you have been learning a lot for a long time.
If you have a chance, please help a bit, I am somewhat very confused.
KGirl, I wish you can let go on all this resentment... it's not good for you alone.
It hurts more on you then on him now. I am no expert, but I have been working with my IC in some of my childhood grudges, resentments and I am learning how to forgive and let go and it is working for me, I feel better.
Now I can see that many of my fears, insecurities, inferiority complex were all connected to my resentments. I just wish I had realized this long ago and did the work I am doing now to let go of all these feeling that did not add anything to me but pain and more pain.
Listen to Labug, her analogy is perfect. At some point, who is gaining, who is losing, why the competition?
Hope you find peace in yourself, it's hard, it takes so much tears to get so deep in our souls and become clean with ourselves. The last 4 months of my life have been the hardest ones, but in some ways I am happy that I can finally be myself, no more masks reflected in the mirror.
Hugs!
Pink
Hmm... Bug, I'll have to think on your post on the driving thing some more. I thought about it the whole way home and all I could come up with was: sometimes that's the case, and sometimes it's not, and maybe the key is knowing when it is the case vs. isn't. For example, I work at a university with college students, and a lot of what I do philosophically is about the educational experience, learning life lessons, and holding people accountable for their actions. A student emailed me last week about how she needed 4 very specific classes to graduate but three of them were closed, and wanted to know what I could do to get her into them. I looked at her history and she waited 3 weeks to enroll in classes from when she could have. Had she enrolled 3 weeks ago she would have gotten into all of them. This student has a pretty lengthy history of not doing things until the last minute, asking someone to fix it for her, someone will fix it, but then note "I told the student that in the future people wouldn't be so accommodating when she does not plan ahead." But, every time people accommodated her anyway. We talk a lot about setting students up for adult life after this, and this is in no way being helpful - you can't walk into your primary doctor's office and say "I would like to see the doctor today for my regular exam." Could I have tried to push to get this girl into some of those classes? Possibly. Am I going to? No, this is not something I should be spending my time on. Her failure to plan shouldn't constitute my emergency. But now she's furious and complaining to anyone who will listen that I won't help her. I don't know if that made sense, to summarize: isn't it sometimes appropriate and necessary to enforce consequences? One of my past supervisors said it very well: "In our job, we have the power to take away consequences for people... that doesn't mean we should do it often or regularly." If a student plagiarized and violated the rules, we can't say "oh, I understand how hard it must be to write that paper... you can stay here." They will get kicked out. Maybe it's a matter of separating that from my personal life, I don't know, but I also think when people don't treat you well, there are some consequences (like not maintaining relationships with them and setting some boundaries).
Maybe I just need more time to get there.
I agree with all what you said about consequences, but I do not see it so straight forward as you see.
For many things in life it is you do this and then that happen and if you don't then you lose, or is late, have the aggravation. I know that is they way it is supposed to be, but in R it's a little more complicated, in my opinion.
There are a lot of external emotions as well as internal emotions and they build up with time. Feelings are a very hard matter, love is something amazing and in the same time very complicated.
And the master of all... communication. Most of us can communicate quite a lot throughout our lives, but in R the communication gets distorted, misunderstood. And that's why most people say that it is very hard to live together, to be married to someone for many, many years without trouble.
One day we wake up feeling a little crappy, we go to work or do errands and the day does not improve, it gets more crappy, then we came home and the other half is there feeling really good. H/S says something funny and you are not in a mood, you want to just be quite and go to bed. You resent you other half because he did not notice how crappy you are feeling, and the other half resent you because you are not a fun person to be with.
Next thing you know you are creating resentment, blindness, hurts that will stay with you for a long time. Then the next time there is a misunderstanding, it start to build up.
We are human beings, beautiful creatures, but we are complex in the area of "Feelings".
So, if we are able to recognize and think about all we want to say before we do, all we want to transfer before we do, it would be fantastic, but we don't. There are just too many routes in a day and sometimes is the R that suffers the most.
I think this board is a blessing, it start opening my eyes and my brain to what it means to care, to love and to share a life with someone important to us.
I see now that it's not about winning or loosing, it's not about having more or less, better or worse... it's about giving. And doing that we always receive more.
Maybe I am too romantic and believe too much in good. I know there are bad people out there and we can do nothing about them. But maybe, if we don't judge, we can see who is who in all this.
It's just a tough, really I don't know if this is what everyone needs, I know I have been learning that some things are just not worth my heartache. I am learning to let go on all the hurts, and I have been feeling a little better every day. It is for me and for me alone, no one else.
Hugs!