Was. Does she want to come home ?

Hi all. My previous thread seems to be locked need help please 2. Hope
It's ok to continue here

W had kids last nite and D13 is away to Spain tonight. I cooked dinner and W hung around and joined us. She seemed very unhappy to leave D13 obviously and we had good time packing for D. W complemented me on dinner and how kids are being looked after. She left after dinner and both D"s and S19'fell aslleep while watching Star Wars. I'm a lucky man sitting here now with S15 and the other three asleep. Fire lit and health good. I'm a decent man with a job and people who care about me. Life is good. Really sad about M but who has everything ? Hoping all of my forum friends can find moments like this. I'll be sad again but for now All ok. Take care

This gives me hope Friend

Enjoy what you can and continue to be the BEST dad ever.

MHO is that the children are the thing that will bind you together forever.

Genetics and biology cant take that away.

Everything else is only stuff and money.

What is truly important?

Hi all. Bit of a down day yesterday. Got text from W. To say her charger was broken and phone going flat. I offered to pick a new charger up for her as kids and I were going shopping She said thanks. Kids and I bought some new clothes and did food shop and headed home. Cooker switch had

Sorry. And I was fitting new one when she arrived around 4pm. She came in and the kids did not pay much attention She started to feed dogs and my D10 told her to stop as it was Ds job and not to be done until 5pm. W burst into tears and said they were her dogs and wanted to feed them. She then started telling me that the kids had moved on In the last three weeks since she left and that she had wasted her life raising them. She then had a go at me for spoiling them by buying them clothes that she could not afford. She then had a go that now I did everything around the house she felt that she was not needed and if only I had made these changes years ago things would be different. I told her the past was the past and it could not be changed. We all regret things we should have done differently. She carried on having ago at me and saying she wanted the house sold so she could afford a place for the kids. She carried on for about twenty mins telling me that I had not changed and I was fooling everyone into thinking I had. She finally left saying we were finished and that she had had enough. She is really struggling but I don't know what to do Our M is over but I still care as a friend Tough

MAN YOU ARE PROBIBALLY ME IN A YEAR.

Two days ago....We are still in the same house yet, but she does not connect with me as a H. She stopped wearing her rings earlier this week. States that it is gone, have not made love in a month. doing DB couseling with her which gives me hope but think all is lost. Detatching does not seem to work with her, holding and being a good person and H seems to...but I do not know. She cried in church yesterday and stated that she wants to tell the kids (they know something is up). I told her that I would support her if she wanted to move out, but think I will be resentful if she does. I almost want to give her a ultimatum and ask to either put back on her rings and be my W or move out until she can figure it out but am afraid.

Its hard when we love them so much, I accept some responcibility but ultimatly it is now her choice. The kids know something is up but I do not want to say anything until she is sure.

A day later.....she put her rings back on and slept in the same bed (she stated that she was not going to anymore). She said that I seemed detached (because I am trying too). This back and forth is slowly driving me crazy and I WANT TO MAKE LOVE!!!!!! AGH

Hrdtms. Post on here often as the vets will help with good advice and the people like me will offer moral support. You still seem to be in a good place compared to others so continue to improve as a person and make her see what she could be giving up.

Re my stich my W was / is very unhappy with our W and left mentally 6 months ago. I did everything wrong and only found the db way and have been working on me ever since My W left physics ally 3 weeks ago and seems more down everytime she comes home. I continue to improve and feel all that does in annoy her and I suppose she is right as I should have do e this years ago.

Good luck with your sitch. It might not seem like it but you are in a great place compared to others. Don't waste it. Take care

Quote:

I have to jump in here because I had the same impression that rd500 had.

That we are always the ones to end first, leave first, not seem over-eager.
I didn't understand that this should be changed over time.

Which is why things backfired on me quite a bit. When H was starting to warm up, I was basically shutting him down, thinking I was DBing.

I tend to take things very literally, and that was my interpretation.
I have since figured out that this is not the way to do it, but I definitely wasn't clear on that until recently.

I guess I just thought that if I kept making myself scarce, that it would help me detach, and that eventually, if he was ever going to, H would start to pursue me.

I had another poster who was confused about it, also. And, there may be others with the same thoughts as you.

What has been nicknamed Sandi's Rules actually came about as a response to several LBS who were simply lost about what to do after receiving the bomb. There could have been several other things added to that list, but it was a beginning. It gave the LBS newcomer some type of guideline to some 180's. And as Bond explained, they came from Michele's book, I just put them in a list.

You see, when the bomb is dropped, that is pretty much a wake-up call for the LBS. And the 180's the WAS see helps them to wake up enough to realize..."This isn't what I expected". How long the LBS has to continue those particular 180's will vary from stitch to stitch. But hopefully, when the WAS begins to "come around", so to speak, then those 180's can be adjusted. Sometimes, they have to be on a "sliding scale" for quite some time.

But here's the point, if your goal is to reconcile, then at some point you have to allow each other to get warmer in the relationship. You start getting more attached again, spending more time together and talking more. And yes, even develop a friendship again. These are necessary steps that help piece the M back together again.

Those 37 things on that list are just for a temporary span of time until the M is reconciled or D. The things that should never change are the self improvements and the lessons learned during your DBing days.

Hi Sandi. Thanks for posting. I get what your saying bit when does this happen ? Too soon and your pursuing and too late ?

My W is in a terrible place crying all the time about kids her new place and money She seems adamant about M and I have to respect that. I now believe no EA or PA just a kind nature taking advantage of. However. I love my W and want to help her but she seems to be heading down a dark road. She left with nothing in place and still says the family home is her home even though she has a flat 25 kms away All my friends tell me she wants to come back but I don't see it I just think she is missing her old life and children. Any thoughts please

I tend to be tough on WAW's b/c I was one myself and feel I know the "typical" mindset. For the most part, I believe you have to apply tough love with her. Be firm, but not mean/hateful. Detach, but don't act cold/mad. Validate, but don't support her wrong choices. Act in a polite, curious & friendly manner, but don't try to be her BFF.

Usually, the WAW has to learn the hard way. The sooner her fantasy castle collapses, the sooner she will begin to deal with reality. Your job is not to administer punishment, but neither is it to make her WAW dreams come true. She has made the choice to pull herself out of the M. Along with that choice comes certain consequences........or maybe I should phrase it this way........when she removes herself as your W, she loses certain privileges. At least, she should, IMO.

I believe it was you who told her she could come to the house whenever she wanted b/c it would always be her home. But already you feel displeased that she popped in unannounced. That is why you should not open your mouth and make statements like that one. She took herself out of the home you provided for her, remember? She can't have it both ways. Neither do I believe in giving the WAW reassurances as long as they are in their wayward or rebellious state.

The problem for her is that having it both ways is exactly what she wants. She wants the best of both worlds.....what the family life offers and what the single life offers. And whenever it doesn't happen, or it gets hard........she cries, complains about how hard it is for her, etc. But this is what comes with the decision she made!

Some WAW'S return home simply b/c they cannot make it financially alone. But her love does not return. Most men want their W back.....but want their love also.

So you asked how you can tell. I don't think it comes quickly. I also know how cunning a female can be to get what she wants! Be careful and watch out for the cake eating. Some men believe their WAW's are warming up.....when really they are cake eating. Perhaps that is a difference of opinion, IDK. Personally, I think after some time has passed and there is a little shift felt in the R and she appears to be putting forth some effort, you could slack up on just a couple of things and see how it goes. Nothing big, just easy does it. If in a few days if she is back to her WAW ways again......then put those 180's right back where you had them.

Don't confuse 180's with you lifelong self improvements. Those self improvements should stay consistent. The changes you make in yourself should not go back and forth. Make sense?

You have a lot to learn and you are under a lot of stress, so please don't hesitate to ask questions. Sometimes we may not know a pat answer, but we can try to work together to find a solution, the best we can.

Hi Sandi. Great advice and clears up a few things I'm sure we all think our witch is unique but my W seems to be a little unusual in that she seems to be doing everything wrong (for her). She seems to be near rock bottom and it's hard to watch. I accept all I have done and am trying daily to improve. I am doing this now because I accept that W is not in love anymore (hate it but accept it) my kids are taking her leaving very hard and she seems to be making bad decision after bad decision I realise that's her choice but it's hard to watch I have detached to the point where she is asking me about girlfriends ? Mad. I am venting now but I have a few questions that I will post shortly. Thanks again

Originally Posted By: rd500

She seems to be near rock bottom and it's hard to watch.

Yes hard to watch but it may NOT be rock bottom.
Or she may hit and bounce off.

Best thing is to not watch and try to predict.
It really is a waste of time.

Thanks Cadet. As I say nonstop crying , anger and general upset , it's hard to take Seems a certain creek with the loss of a paddle spring to mind. Thanks for posting

rd, thank you for your kind post on my thread. It really means a lot.

As for your situation, I'm sure your WAW is having second thoughts, but just carry on with what you're doing, because it's working. You're doing an amazing job taking care of you and the kids, and she is starting to get a taste of what life will be like without that. Perhaps it will jolt her into wanting to come back. But please be careful if she suggests moving back. You'll want to take things very slowly to make sure that she's coming back for the right reasons (for you, not for her convenience, or her sadness about the kids). I worry a bit about her mental state. She sounds very confused. Just keep shining your beacon bright. Be a guiding light to all around you. Know that you're awesome. Carry on.

Thanks Ahoy. As usual wise words. As for my post it's nothing but the truth I'm sure you an see from all the posts when you were gone I am not alone in my opinion. Take care and nothing but positives thoughts re your health and you M

Take care

Your WAW is not that unusual at all. Part of the problem is how they make wrong decisions and then cry about it to the one who left broken hearted.

Yes, I'm sure it is painful to watch, but she needs to know you will not enable her to pursue a life apart from you and the children.

Originally Posted By: rd500

She carried on for about twenty mins telling me that I had not changed and I was fooling everyone into thinking I had.

To me, this is the best part. If you've really changed, it throws a wrench into her plans and idea of the M. She goes on for a while and refers to other people validating your changes because these are the things getting in her head. Now what really matters is that you know you've really changed. You'll need it if you really want this M to work in the long run. We should be less focused on their return and more on creating a functioning marriage. It would give us more patience, perspective and will.

Thanks mozza. Thanks for your post. Thing is it's the I/c who is confirming the changes Also she is gone 3 weeks and the house and the kids are all still standing. The kids are having proper dinners every nite , and even she said my roasts are the best she's had the house is clean and all carrying on as normal. It's not a case of me fooling anyone it's there for all to see As I posted before I/c is convinced W is not in an EA or PA and if that is the case ( which I am unsure).it must be hard very difficult for her to accept her leaving has not brought the world to an end I believe M is over but continue to stand as I have to try all avenues for kids me and W.

Sandi. Thanks for posting. I read you early posts over lunch and you had great strength to seek help even though you were in your fog. From my recent experiance this is not common and the WAS does not seek help. You are a very strong person

Re me, my W seems lost , etc and although help has been offered help she said she has had enough advice from I/c parents etc. and I think this is the big difference in her sitch compared to yours. I believe my W would like to come home but sees it as not possible and my Dbing is reinforcing that. I know she does not want to comeback to the M but is obviously missing the benefits of the M. I have read a lot of posts on here and the success rate seems low Again thanks is for posting

Well thank you for those kind words.

Quote:

I believe my W would like to come home but sees it as not possible and my Dbing is reinforcing that.

How do you see DBing reinforcing it? What would your other options be, if you were not DBing?

Sandi. No Dbing is the only option I have. My point is in our R I have always being the 'Rock'. I have always been the one she could turn to about anything. Even last week she was discussing ladies problems with me but she know she has lost that rock now and she has to turn somewhere. Her friend has plenty of his own issues but if that is all she has left to turn to then she has no choice. Only in this was iDBi g not giving her the option to return. DBi g has helped me as any individual greatly.

Sandi2,

You are wise beyond compare. It is amazing how much your words strike with me and inspire me. I trully hope she turns around for me with the info that you and DB gives.

rd500,

Thanks for your post. I have felt that I am a little ahead of most of the individuals that post here - however things are moving very slowly. I look forward to hearing of your progress as I believe your situation may forshaddow my own.

Stay safe and strong friend.

Oh you just made my day! Thank you so much.

Hi all. Bad day today. W came home Wednesday to visit kids and to be there when D13 arrived home from Barcelona. I got home about 7pm stayed out of the way and D10 came down to my bedroom for chat W came down about 8pm to say she was off to gym for an hour. I played with kids and D10 feel asleep with me watching TV. W came home and made conversation while we watched film. She then asked could we both go and collect D13 from school when bus dropped her off at 1am. I said ok D 13 would like that. We chatted about D13s trip and it turned out that D13 had being texting me 2/3 times a day she hadn't text W once. As it got closer to 1am W said she would wait at home while I collected D13. On returning D13 was very pleased to see me but a bit off with W. Next day W spent at home with kids while I went to work. I arrived home last nite W gone and dinner made. Spent evening playing with kids and W made no contact with them last nite or this morning. I'm not sure if W is settling into her new life or not. She seemed happy enough Wednesday but Monday she was very upset I know I have to move on but the pain is hard Rant over

Hi RD

Sorry...but did she choose to move out originally? How was that decision made? How did the kids take it...were they resentful towards her or you? What did you tell them was the cause? This is of great interest to me as it may happen with us. What mistakes did the two of you or you make in negotiating this process?

Hi Hrdtims She decided if I wouldn't move she would. It's a long story but basically she wants to be away from me and kids. Saturday before she left she told me problem was not me but in her head. She also told me she did not feel like playing with the kids anymore and she hope moving out would make her miss them. We told them together that she needed space to think and I just validated her. The way I look at it is the kids come first and I would tell them the truth but just enough. No real advice but I hope it doesn't come to this for your sake

rd500, I'm sorry it's so hard on the kids. Your WAW is hurting them, and it's hard to stand by and watch that happen without trying to jump in and help. But you are wise to stay out of it. Your kids will have to sort out their relationship with her on their own in time. You are doing everything you can for them in the meantime. I admire your strength of character.

Thanks Ahoy. No strength of character at all. I am close to tears most of the time and just have to keep together for kids. W called me this morning to see how I was and to ask if she could stay tonight as she normally takes girls to hers but D13 wanted to stay home. I said that was fine , she then told me she was very down and was having a bad day. Both Ds dressed up now in scary customers and W just text to say she was not com go as she had a bad headache Both Ds very disappointed and feel W is letting them down again. Very frustrating Thanks for posting

RD,

Your situation is very similar to mine. W also states that she needs time to clear her head...I have told her that I do not want anyone to move out as I think the best way to work through it is to stay and sleep in the same bed. She talks about a appartment to figure things out but, unlike your W, she does not want the kids to think that she is leaving. Matter of fact she is becoming very possesive of her time vs my time with them...??? I guess that it is just me that she needs to figure things out about

I continue to state that I do not understand to myself but am working on all that I can to get her to relize not to throw it all away following all this forum and DB has to offer. More counceling in 2 weeks for both of us...then two more sessions after that.

It appears darker and darker...loosing hope that she will turn around. Very sad, I mimmic your feelings of tears most of the time.

Happy to see kids dress up tonight and spend time with friends. Talk to you on Monday.

Keep strong Follow Db and hopefully some of the vets on here will chime in. My advice for what is worth ! Is shut the fu## up when she talks and sincerely try to listen to what she is saying. She feels the way she feels and you cannot change her mind with words. Keep improving and don't mention R or M at this time Take care

Quote:

She also told me she did not feel like playing with the kids anymore and she hope moving out would make her miss them.

She really is in a bad place. It's not uncommon to hear a WAW say that about her H, but about her children? Not good.

I am sorry that your situation is so uncertain. I know you are getting support from the online community, but I urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. There is still time to save your marriage. Even when you think your situation is hopeless, there is much that can be done with the help of a Divorce Busting Coach. Call me to discuss our coaching program. 303-444-7004

Hi reberta Thanks for the input. I live in Ireland and have professorial help here. I have the DR DB books and they are a great help. I'm not sure what my W is about at the moment. She turned up this am so I as already out and carried on to work as two weeks ago she asked me for time alone in the house with the kids. I was at work for 20 mins and got a voice nail from her saying I did not have to stay out of the house just because she was home. She was crying while she said this. I then got a call 10 mins later from her to say the same and she chatted for 25 mins. I'm not sure if she is just guilt ridden over leaving or sad because her new life is not as she expected. I chatted to her on the phone but I feel detachment is the way to go because as a person I have matured , taken responsibility for my ( many) mistakes in our marraige and improved 100% as a father ( long long overdue). I will continue to improve but at this stage W has to want to engage with M I do she signs she is very unhappy but as above why ? Hi sandi. Thanks for pisting. I agree I can ( sort of) understand her issues with me lol. But not the kids. I can only imagine her perceived or real understanding of her life to date must be very sad. Thanks for posting

Sorry for spelling mistakes. Dooooh

Hi all. Feeling my title for the thread was a bit silly now. No real updates just the usual. W works on a Sunday and came in on the way to work to kiss girls good morning. To do this she had to come into my bedroom because both D's normally come into my bed around 4am. She then came home after work for 20 mins to see kids. This morning I got a calll from W to ask how kids got on going back to school after mid term break and chatted for 10 mins. Seems she is missing kids , which is completely understandable but is cake eating. I am asking for set days for visits going forward as it's upsetting for me to see her so often. I continue with DBing but it's hard to see someone you have loved for so long regularly We all need time to heal and I don't feel I am getting that Therapeutic post over

Hi everyone just an update. Had a bit of good fortune at work, so that was gladly recieved Kids up and down but we are keeping the games going and have a good time generally We have good times and it seems easier to keep my mind clear of negative thoughts for much longer while with kids and even when I'm alone. I think the detachment is helping greatly is this regard. I read all the posts on here and we all seem to be struggling with our good days and bad My good now out weigh my bad but only just !!!! I'm thinking the ratio will improve with time. As I improve as a person I look back and see how a lot of my actions made this sitch come to pass. I hope that accepting my errors and flaws ( to put it kindly ) will spur me on to continue to improve and become the best me I can be Tough to see yourself as you were and realise that you wernt perfect after all !!!!

Thanks to all who read this and offer any thoughts. Take care all

Hi rd500,
Just wondering do your kids go out and spend tine either there mum or stay over at her place?
Do you have any agreements in place ?

I ask because my W doesn't really bother and is getting her own place in a few weeks and has said to daughter she can stay over whenever she wants .
I want to have some sort of agreement where I want like a weeks notice if that is to happen .
Does that sound reasonable ?

I want D to see her mum but not at a drop of a hat if that makes sense .

Hi south. My stich is that W has a 1 bed flat about 25 k away and at the moment she collecst my youngest three from school Monday , Wednesday and Thursday and then cooks for them and leaves before or soon after I get home. On Wednesdays she stays for the night. On Fridays she collect two Ds from home and takes them to hers overnight and drops them home sat pm. She has full access to the house while I'm at work and she does housework while she's home.

I'm not really happy with this arrangement but I have to allow for the kids to get used to the sit ch. W is gone a month and the kids are just getting used to it but I hope to put a more formal plan is place soon. As I have mentioned before she left me to get space and currently text ls and phones me 3/5 times a day. I am detaching like she can't believe and 180s all the time. The gal is a bit different because of the 4 kids and full time job but we shall see.

South. I see a lot of similarities between all Our stories but at the end of the day we are all individuals and how we deal and cope with things are unique to us. I had I/c this morning and she is really pleased at my progress re becoming who I was. It took me along time to realise my part in the marraige breakdown but now I have I will do my best to resolve my issues. I'm not sure my stich can be resolved due to W and I issues but at the end of the day W is my kids mum and I have to treat her as such

Hi. All. Reading everyone's stich today and it ls not good. We all seem to care so much but even with changes we are too late. For me it's reaching the point of no return. My new life is good , I miss W but I have great time with my children and housework and cooking is getting easier W is making some noises and actions that seem to show she still cares but that's all can see. I/C thinks W is heading home but I think I am giving tainted info to I/c. Outside school at moment waiting for D13 to finish dance class Feeling down but have to continue as kids need to see their dad as a rock but it's so hard, I need my old W back to talk to Sorry for self pitying rant but need to vent. Thanks

It could be far worse. Rd we have the same bd within days. Mines still clinging to ow like a limpet on a rock!

Would be funny except he seems to have also lost his marbles, the bag they come in and the rules.

I think there are more factors here than I know.

Same with you live life enjoy it, it will end where it ends and when you say it ends.

Hi all. I have being following most posters and it has been getting me down to be honest. Bathe only good news I saw was Maybells job I have read sandi2 posts from the start and the big differance I see is her strength to recognise that's her thinking was not quite right. Most WAS on here I read about seem to have being hit over the head with the selfish stick, over and over again I love who my W used to be but this new person is not someone I would even like I am fully aware of my more than 50% part in the trouble of M and I am working to fix myself and improve.

My W is currently crying whenever shes home ( most days) and seems really down I hate seeing her like this and wish I had not played a part in her being this sad / upset etc Ik have good days and bad but always seem sad , as if I am mourning the loss of M

I am now hoping that W will be happy at the end of all this and her choices ( while hard for me to understand) do indeed make her happy / content.

D10'seems very down and this makes me so sad

D13 seems to be revelling against W ( eg refusing to stay with W overnight)

S15. Now ignores W most of the time

S20. Is turning against W re lots of small lies but are adding up

I have detached and when W is not around I can function ok but when she's home it's hard to show detachment without being cold in front of kids

W gone 5 weeks now and seems to be constantly upset / sad. It's difficult to watch but what can I do. Maybe grass is green syndrome or just guilt

Sorry post was about W but needed to vent. Take care all

Hi all. Quick question please. My W is going through very hard time with s15 and d13, both have told her they no longer respect her for leaving and S has told her he no longer wishes to talk with her. Question is, W called today to see how all where doing , I normally answer all ok and continue conversation and finish as per DB. this morning when she asked about S15 I told her the truth, that he's was very upset and angry last nite because she left, W started crying down phone and hung up. She texted later to say she tried calling S but he would not answer. Should I have not told W about S15"s upset as it might look like I am trying to control her feelings ? Thanks for any replies in advance

Hi. Yet venting as no real news

Kids been up and down of late, seems the reality of the sitch is hitting home

D10. Very quiet and not as bubbly as normal

D13. Very anti W and vocal about it

D15. Very very anti W as it's his birthday next week and W not sure if she can make meal ( which is day before his actual B day)

D19 very quiet and down. Keeping an eye on him

This week so far W has told me that she misses me, I am a great dad , she thinks she is in the middle of a mental breakdown and that she is home sick. I am past trying to mind read if she is regretting her decision to leave or just guilty over leaving kids. She is also out of money.

On a positive note , I am now able to make roast dinners, beef or ham to perfection. I am enjoying the house work, washing etc as it gives me a sense of pride to be caring for the kids as I should have for years.

I am struggling with seeing W almost everyday but when I tried to arrange set days for visits she cried uncontrollably and said I was trying to keep her from her kids. I relented because I think it's best for kids to see her but it's difficult for me

I don't know if any one is reading these posts anymore as my fellow posters ( timeline wise) seemed to have dropped the rope and gone Still it helps me deal with it all. Take care

We are still reading your posts (or at least I am). Hang in there.

Thank you so much for answering. I appreciate we all are living nightmares but it means a lot. Thank you

Still reading and wishing you well.

Thanks jim. Really appreciated

rd, i'm still reading and rooting for you. I'm just limiting my participation on the boards because it was becoming an emotionally draining vortex for me. Also, I've decided that I'm done with my M, so I don't think the boards are the right fit for me right now. I don't plan to stand anymore, and will be proceeding with a dissolution in January. I know a better life awaits me -- and you too.
That being said, I will miss you and many of the others on these boards who gave me encouragement when I was down.
Know that you are an incredible person -- strong and honorable and good. You deserve real happiness, and I wish you the best. Your wife doesn't deserve you.

Ahoy. Thank you so much for all your kind words and encouragement. I am sorry for your M but if that's what you want then I completely support you and wish you all the happiness in the future. You have really helped me and I will always be grateful. I know we will all be happy again one day but why can't that day be tomorrow !!!!!!!!!!!! Take care and thanks again

Hi all. Just a venting.

W asked for a chat about kids and was very basic stuff and then con turned to her decision to leave. She said she has gained nothing by leaving save she has no one checking on her She said she is amazed at my changes and impressed at the person I have become. Even though she thiught I was a good person before. She cries the whole way through these convs and keeps saying she is in a fog and what a terrible person she is for leaving the kids.

She went on to say if I find someone new she would not be able to be friends with me and could not come to the house as it would be to upsetting for her. I told her meeting someone else was the farthest thing from my mind

I have detached like a vet but I have told her she is missed by the whole house.

She keeps talking about a MLC or being in the middle of a mental breakdown

Very hard to deal with but I have my kids so I'm the lucky one

Vent over

I am very concerned about the effect this is having on your children. I can't imagine what it would have done to me if my mother had left our home and did not want to be with me. If they are not in therapy, I suggest you find a good family therapist for you and the kids. You all need professional guidance to cope through this trama. Your W needs help, but you can't make her get it. All you can do is try to help your children.

Hi sandi and thanks for posting. I don't want to give wrong impression of W. She does collect kids 3 days a week from school and stays in house weds eve and takes girls most Fridays ( D13 never wants to go ). On most other days she does call I for 10 mins on her way home. My S16 has seen school counsellor but said it didn't help. I do tell the kids daily that their mum loves and misses them but my two Ds are very clinging to me and don't like it when I go out.

W has talked about returning to I/c but we will see

I see lots of signs that W is torn by her decision to leave but I won't mind read why

We have a neighbour who has just left his W and 3 kids and when my W was telling me this
she was sobbing saying she was much worse than the neighbour as she was a WAW. I validated that she felt she had to leave and everyone's witch was different. I havnt mentioned R or M but I feel that my detaching is such that W believes I have moved on.

I will continue to post and again, I am always very grateful for any advice

Rd500,

So she feels bad about walking out on the kids.

Good. She's supposed to feel that way. It's not your job to protect her from the consequences of actions. Don't try and be the hero and try to alleviate her guilt. Let her fall flat on her face, because that's how we all learn.

You seem to be pretty lenient with her. She comes and goes in your home as she pleases. You might want to think through what arrangements are best for you and the kids and set some boundaries. Remember your job is not to make this easy for her.

When she told you she couldn't stand the thought of you moving on with someone else, you told her that was the furthest thing from your mind. What you told her, in effect, was, "Gee honey, I'll always be waiting here for you - you go ahead and have your fun. Please feel free to keep me as you plan B." How is she going to sense that she is already pushing you away - poentially into the arms of another woman?

It is your job to protect your children and your own future. Your wife is pretty unstable and you don't know what she might do. I strongly suggest you speak to a divorce attorney and find out about your rights. The pattems you establish during your wife's exodus might set a precedent should things go south and you get divorced. You are at an advantage since she left the house.

Theoden

Theoden. Thanks for posting. I appreciate your advice. I see what you are saying. I see my mistakes and although I have detached with day to day things I am still available for her so I will have to change that. My W and I both went to the same I/c and that I/c is telling me to open up a small bit to my W as she is in a fog and is making very bad decisions and possibly nearing a breakdown.

My W moved out after 25 years together and since the evening she left 7 weeks ago myself and the 4 kids have carried on as if she was never there. She still visits most days but her role as a mother is gone and she is now like an aunt. ( her words)

W called the kids last night and then spoke to me. She said she was too upset to see kids and each day was getting harder. She also said she is going to see an I/c as she couldn't handle her situation much longer. She was sobbing down the phone as she said this.

I have detached to the point where I think my W believes I don't want her back and any gesture or such like I make is merely me being kind to an ex W.

Just to lighting the mood, I have dry bad pain in my leg at the moment due to a trapped nerve. I have not told W and told kids not to mention it. She told me last night, "I wasn't snooping BUT I saw in your draw a lot of pain medication, what's that for. ". Sherlock Holmes she's not. !!!! Thanks again for posting Any advice is great fully received. Rd

rd500,

If she's really going through some crisis, then she needs help, but YOU can't be the one giving it to her, since she's left because "she's not in love with you." This also seems to gave something to do with family life she needs to work out. She also needs to learn to be responsible for her own happiness.

Your I/C could not tell you if she was having an affair, by the way, since it goes against client confidentiality. You said there is no evidence of one, but she seems to be behaving AS IF there is one.

If she's nearing a breakdown there may not be an OM. But then, perhaps, there is.

If it's a question of "finding herself" let her do that. Perhaps, for the sake of your children, it's for the best that she doesn't see them everyday. Maybe one overnight on the weekend (or every other weekend) and one evening a week where she has dinner with them.

Again, please speak to a lawyer about this, to protect you home and your children's home.

If there's no OM, there's a real good chance this will blow over.

Regarding your changes, 180's and GAL activities. Please keep in mind most of us start them to win over our spouses and tell ourselves it's really for us. Some of these activities will help your wife become curious. They are not, however, long-term and sustainable activities. You can't remain super-dad and husband for the rest of your life. You will, inevitably, slip up. IF that's the ONLY thing bringing her back home, your reconciliation will be temporary. Your wife has to figure out that leaving the home and damaging your children is not the way to solve marital problems. SHE needs to change, too.

Some of your changes are probably necessary, long overdue and need to be permanent. But please remember that piecing your marriage back together and Divorce-Busting are different activities. Right now you are making your demands small, sacrificing, working on yourself, listening, etc. When you reconcile you BOTH have work at it. It's no longer the rd500 show. Please remember that.

Theoden

Thanks again for posting. On the I/c thing she is a life coach so no confidential lines crossed. W has had problems with sex since first child born and has various problems with her body at the moment but has a friendship with a bi polar alcoholic she works with which May have developed into a P/A The life coach is adamant the my W is not in any type of E/A or P/A but has drifted into a friendship with this guy who she thinks she can help. I remain open minded at the moment but would nt be surprised.

I have had many many faults but now I have been forced to look at them and I am addressing them. It's not easy but when I look back my W put up with a lot.

I was never a bad person but at the same time I could have been so much better.

I completely agree that if we were ever to reconcile it is a joint venture and it's one I would love to try as I believe I am a far better person for this experiance

I do believe my W was very unhappy and the issue was not just the marriage but her life in general. She found an outlet through volunteering but it took over her life. She meet a lot of people there lived a life that I believe she envied and she looked to her own life as not the life she wanted. She talks about being in a fog and thinks she's having a MLC or some sort of breakdown.

I have detached but have been doing the 80% returns. When I do this she SEEMS to back away.

As discussed with life coach , I do not want tTHIS person back, I would love to work on the marraige with my old W , who would commit to making it work.

Thank you so much for posting , great advice

RD

Yours was the first thread I read that I really felt attuned to.

Are you sure there is no A of any kind? Really really sure? w has changed there is a trigger somewhere.

You can not have your old W back, that is past. Just as you are a new RD.

I absolutely admire your family values RD, but new W is going to be new W, her choice. You have no control over:
old W,
new W,
W as she will be.

Your bond with your kids was remarkable and shining, keep that star in your heart. It is your strength and challenge whilst W is doing crazy W changing.

We need to hear from you, as you have such positivity in your world.
Hope

Vanilla

Hi Vanilla. Thanks for the kind words. Re my W and a d affair , I do not know. At this stage I wouldn't be surprised. It was my birthday on Friday and my S16 today so myself and kids went out last night and had a fantastic time. We ant to a burger bar and did nothing but laugh for the whole time It's was Great and I hope S16 remembers it the same in years to come.

I don't post as much as I am following DB / DR and I see no real progress save my W seems to be going downhill fast. She is constantly upset and last week myS19 had a big bust up with her and she thought she resolved it but it came up again yesterday.

As I said it was S16s birthday today and W could not afford a present so I told him all the gifts were from us and inof just me W was very grateful and text me thanks during the day. She called me twice to thank me for being a great dad and good person. She looks wrecked and says she feels terrible and I'll all the time She takes food and items such as toilet rolls from my house as she has little money ( she does not know I know this ) It's hard to see her this bad but it is her choice.

Re OM it's possible that it's a EA or PA but I have no proof and have decided that I have hurt myself enough over this with negative thoughts so I try to push those thoughts from my mind. If and when it comes to light then I'll have enough pain then so why put myself through more now.

I read a lot of the posts on here and while it does give a certain strength , it's very hard to read of all the pain we all feel. I am dealing with my issues re the marriage and don't beat myself like I used to I am a good person, not perfect, but good and I deserve love and respect. I would love that to be with W but I will be happy in a relationship again one day. I also have four of the most fantastic kids in the world who's love is unconditional and nobody could or should ask for more. Take care

rd, I just want to say how I really admire how you've been there for your kids during all of this. Through your posts, I've seen how you've grown in this regard. Whatever happens with your W, know that you are serving as a great dad and role model to your kids. That should give you a sense of worth and purpose. I hope your blocked nerve improves.

Hi ahoy. Good to hear from you and thanks for the kind words. Nerve getting there thanks. Now just the M to sort out LOL Take care

RD

Thank you for posting. Your W does seem to be having a tough time and clearly that includes the financial aspects. Sadly it is her choice. Is W having extra medical help in addition? From what you write she is giving support but this is taking its toll on her.

I loved your description of the GAL with your kids.

Yes, I agree there is a great deal of pain in the threads but enormous advice and support too. Just wanted to let you know that I agree with Ahoys ^^^^^^.

Can you say what it is about the 80% that seems to make her withdraw? Do you sense she is getting ready to reach out to you again? Is she close to her kids equally?

Admiration
Vanilla

Hi vanilla. Not sure about your first paragraph If you mean medical help then she is getting none. Her finances are very very tight and she moved out when they were even worse. She told me today that she feels she lived her life always worrying about the future and not enjoying the now. She will not be getting a full time job as she wishes to live her life day to day That's ok but at 46 you have responsibilities to four kids

My as has always been close to my oldest but he has pulled away for her over her lies and her leaving Each day she is different and I am not sure what she is thinking.

Re her pulling back , I will give a few examples

She told me she is homesick and misses me. I responded that she was missed and nothing was set in stone She came straight back and said that she had made her bed and now had to lie in it.

She told me she was in a MLC and about to have a breakdown. I offered to pay for an I/c of her choosing and she told me it was her problem and she would figure it out

Just back from hospital with D16 because his anathema flared up
And he need a nebuliser Doc told me stress can be a major factor !!!!!! D16 broke down this morning because he said he can't understand why W left the family All very sad. I know it's life but still very sad

RD

Yes, I was asking about medical help for W.

Thanks for that clarification. Sounds like W needs some medical help but can't afford it and needs counselling and won't have it.

In your eyes she's not taking responsibility for herself and is losing her relationship with her children. Living hand to mouth and day to day. What will you do if she does breakdown, is there a plan?

All she has to do is open her heart and see that she has a loving family and return to it. Although damage has been done, it would seem from your description that this is still possible?

MLC is illogical behaviour and it seems you have fully understood that W needs to resolve issues for herself. I can see why you are sad.

I admire your spirit and strength in this detachment and have taken this as a strength in my own sitch. Using you as a role model.
Thank you
Vanilla

Hi Vanilli. You are much too kind. I am far from an example My detachment was perfect for the first 4 weeks but once she started to talk about missing me and being homesick I think she could she my detachment slip. I never said anything but she could proberbly tell.

Re the MLC , unfortunately she seems to be the poster girl. I have no control over her or her feelings but to watch someone I have loved so much for over twenty years become this person is incredibly hard and I'm not sure I have what it takes to deal with it I know I have to but Looking ahead the road seems very long and dark.

I thank you for your kind words and hope all turns out as you want it to

Take care

I noticed you first said the two of you were using the same IC, then later you referred to that person as a life coach. I looked it up on the Internet, and apparently, it doesn't take much education or experience to be called a life coach. I am not saying this to cause you more worry, but your W's condition may require a more higher skilled professional. It sounds as if she may need to see a docor for medication (temporarly), and maybe a pyschologist.

Do you feel her using these words......"fog" and "MLC" are really her words, or someone who has said it to her? Maybe you could not tell.

Hi Sandi My L/C is a qualified I/C but. choses to be a L/C as she feels it helps her customers ? more.

Fog and MLC are both W own words.

To my untrained mind. It seems W does not love me (obviously) but does not know why and hence her confusion.

Some days she lashes out that I am the cause of the M breakdown but some days she says it due to MLC or fog.

I will continue to detach and let her find her own way

Just a very sad day today

Okay, thanks. I understand about your W and what she says. I had read books on MR for many years, yet I don't believe I fully recognized what was happening to me at first. Once I was involved with OM, the emotional need was seemed stronger than my morals. But I'm not making excuses. I knew I was wrong for my EA. But the A was only part of everything that was going on. I was such a mess, and really was not thinking clearly.

I said all of that to say this, as much as I had read on the subject, none of the previous material I had studied seem to break through the fog and into my memory cells to say, "Hey, stupid.....this is what you have read about in the past. Wake up!"

I had been raised in a good home and tried to be a "good" Christian, and never did I believe I would do what I did! However, I failed miserably when I hit that point & time of temptation in my life. It is usually when we are in a weaken condition (spiritually, physically, mentally, or emotionally) that causes us to backslide from the kind of person we have always been. I had been dealing with tremendous stress for years, compiled with a lot of sadness/emptiness. When I look back on how it happened, I can see how my loneliness contributed to pulling me in (to a point), before I recognized what was happening. By then, I was already hooked (only I didn't know it was like an addiction).

You know what seems so crazy with many WAW's? Instead of being honest and just come out about OM/A, they will deny it and continue to cover up....even if they separate from the H. It's so crazy! There is nothing about it that is logical. That's why it seems almost like a sickness. Except there is one point that nobody can deny, no matter how bad a person's situation may be.....it is always a choice to cheat.

Tell you something else that sounds totally nuts. I don't think I ever used that word (cheat) when thinking to myself about the stitch at the time of my A. I really can't remember. I was just so wrapped up in my own fantasy.

Perhaps none of this is very helpful to you right now. Don't know why I am even telling you all of this, except to say that I did come through it and I finally woke up. My H and I are still together. And even though all those books in previous years were forgotten, the good Lord helped me find my way to this board.....therefore, leading me out of my waywardness.

My H saw a side of me that neither of us knew existed. And I saw a side of him I had never seen, too. Try to remember she is not the same woman right now. Maintain your integrity and lead with strength and honor. You won't be sorry, nor ashamed of your actions later.

I know things look dark right now, but things can still turn around in time. I don't think it will be overnight or a quick fix. It wasn't for me, either. But it can happen.

((hugs))

Sandi,

Thank you again for sharing your experience. I'm sure it's tough to talk about. Not to high jack, but your description here sounds so much like my W. It helps give me hope that this sickness is not unique to just her but is typical in these situations.

RD

(((((((Hugs))))))

This is a journey, and from this view you are doing great.

A door remaining open in your heart when W is ready; that's true DB.

Vanilla

Thanks for that, MCS. It is very typical of a WAW in an A. It is not just your stitch.

Sandi, I figure it must be hard to share your experiences honestly, but It makes a huge difference for those of us to see someone come through the other side.

Thank you both. Sandi. I wish that WAW had half your strength. And vanillin I really aprreciate your support.

On Tuesdays W works and sometimes calls in. Last night d16 has trouble breathing and I had to take him to hospital for a nebuliser. I text W and she offered to help. She called in today got a bad reception from D13 and s16. She was here 5 mins then left.

Again hard to see the women I spent my life with as a guest

On positive note me a kids watch Star Wars tonight and had a good laugh

Take care all. and thanks again for support

RD
I am a little confused about the kids.

You mention D16 should that be S15?

Vanilla

Sorry, Need to concentrate S15 is now S 16 And I am 49. Told old for this S####

I will update profile now

Hi all. Just a vent. A called yesterday afternoon for 10 mins and left very without the usual hugs for the kids Kids had no contact last night or this morning I know I have said it before but W was a great mum before this and now it's like she has relinquished all responsibility for the kids. It makes life easier for me but I can see the pain it's causing the kids.

O. An upbeat note myself and 4 kids watched second last star wars last night and we all had a great time

Take care all

RD

There are at least another 4 star wars movies to GAL at. Then there are the hobbit movies.

How delicious, sitting pretending to be in a movie theatre at home. Trust there was popcorn!

As long as you are not shutting W out and there is some interaction then the memories of mum will remain. They have a terrific dad.

Vanilla

Hi Vanilla. We have watched 5 of the Star Wars so only one left. We we're thinking lethal weapon next ?

Popcorn cola and chocolate. Not such a good dad really !!!!!

W has shut herself out. She often leaves on a Saturday just as we are about to start.

Thanks again for the kind words. I wish we all lived in the
same area We would all GAL so much we wouldn't partners. LOL

I read all your posts but I can't sort my own M out so I don't have a lot of advice to offer. You and the others are always in my thoughts. Take care

You know there are only 3 star wars movies.....

If your thinking lethal weapon next then I'm assuming you've watched Indiana Jones already

Jim. 3 Star Wars movies ? I'll bite ? Please explain ?

Re Indiana , I feel it lacks the introspective nuances of the more socially challenging lethal weapon which not only brings Dr Kings message to life but also displays flashes of Joyce mixed with an attempt ( subtly ) to recreate a little house on the prairie family theme joined by merchant of Venice depth and sadness at the futility of mankind.

Just my thoughts but then I was always as speedy Gonzalez type guy !!!!!

just my inner geek.....

To me the only star wars films are the original 3 (Star Wars, Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi) sure some other films were made with star wars in the title but they were too awful to count. just like the matrix is only the one film.

If you're looking for a set of films of depth, nuance and shakespearean drama (and a fair touch of Dickens) then look no further than the festive masterpieces that are the Die Hard films

My vote is the Lord of the Rings trilogy..it its all of your check boxes of nuances, Shakespearean drama, and depth. I have the Star Wars (first three) set and the Lord of the Rings set. Nice to be able to watch them when the mood hits me.

Sorry Wonka. Lord of rings while cinematography superb without the acting of golm left me dead inside Fantasy was not the word

Jim. Inner geek or purist , tough call Nah. Not really geek all day LOL

Die hard however classic pure classic

My humble opinion but Red and Red 2 future classics

Well that took us away fro real life for a while. Hope you all enjoyed the respite

Hi all. Just back from life coach and she's pleased with my progress. Abit disappointed that W has not sought any help but we cannot control her. W stayed in the home last night and all was quite enough. W seemed in bad form this am so I just steered clear and took kids to school.

Made my bid for father of the year award this morning by getting tickets for D13 to one direction in Dublin next October. She is delighted and so is her best friend. Only downside is I have to attend and I don't have a 1D t shirt !!!!!!!!!

Take care all

RD

One Direction is a Step up from SClub7. All puns intended. You are going in the right direction too.

I'm sure gg will find you an interesting T-shirt to wear!

W knows she is missing out so go all of you and GAL, GAL, family GAL, personal GAL, Xmas GAL, movie GAL. If she is there she is, if not then no mind; her loss. Ignore the grumps, act as if she's sneezy not grumpy. Just go and have a good time.

I am visioning you all having fun

Vanilla

Hi vanilla. Thanks so much for your posts. I'm dreading the concert and myself and 4 kids just finished cluedo and we were beaten by my 10 year old !!!!!! The new Sherlock.

Take care. Ms Scarlet in the ballroom with the revolver !!!!!!!

Time for new thread. Trying to cope and move on