Link to previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2493039&page=1I've been here for about two months and it looks like it is time for a new thread. Like many newbies, my first thread title was a cry of pain, so I am adjusting it. I briefly toyed with the idea of naming it "Dude, Where's my H?", but decided that might lack the necessary gravitas for this situation.
Right after the BD, my personal rollercoaster seemed to be the "up" of feeling feisty and the "down" of feeling overwhelmed. Lately I notice a shift in my feelings- I still feel feisty, but at low moments I feel more sadness and even some anger. I think this is because, at first all my anguish was centered around my family breaking up, and now, by inches, I am slowly starting to process my feelings as a betrayed wife. Good Times!
Next week is my anniversary. When I'm feeling disappointed (or even disgusted) by his recent actions, I do look back to that day and remember how fortunate I was to have found such a sweet, loving and decent man. I know that man still exists, although he is very lost right now. Have we crossed the Rubicon? I have no idea, but I'm not giving up and will do everything I can to salvage the situation by improving myself.
And on that note...
Good news to report - I wiggled into a size smaller dress today and I must say I looked good in it (it's one of those scuba type dresses with the flared skirt that really shows off the legs). As of this morning, have finally lost all the baby weight
. Physically, I'm looking good - I cut my hair and am rocking a pageboy bob that I wore when I first met H, whitened my teeth, am regularly getting manicures again (can't quite budget for the pedicures yet), pierced my ears (my old holes grew shut years ago),and after reading all the exchanges on this board, I decided to finally start wearing perfume (at least when H is around). I'm also physically feeling much better due to improved sleep (thanks fellow posters for all the great suggestions), nutritious diet and consistent exercise.
Here's hoping this thread will have a few positive developments. I think I will leave this on a good note.
Good for you raliced.
Make your next thread Dude, where's my H? instead: I love it.
Ditto. We have more than enough gravitas around here.
Hey Raliced
Thanks for dropping by my thread earlier, appreciate it. I'm still catching up with your sitch but keep going sounds like you're looking dynamite, I've managed to lose about a third of the weight I want to with half the width I want to lose around the waist and I know Im feeling better and more confident for it, in my case still have a way to go though!
Have a great day.
Ed
raliced...how do you pronounce that?
Sorry I haven't posted on your thread much (any?) You've been great on mine. I'll do better, I promise.
Will catch up fully; meanwhile, keep rockin' that dress!
Look at Raliced rockin the scuba dress! Sounds haute:)
Makes you feel good doesn't.
I wore my 'happyest' shirt for 'happy shirt Wednesday*' this week and got comments from loads of people - it really is quite way out.
Then I took a selfie and posted it on facebook and got loads more comments and likes - even a like from WAW (who I've unfollowed).
* Happy shirt Wednesday is my own invention. I've been doing it since before the bomb. Every Wednesday, I put on one of my loudest shirts insted of the plain old white one. I guess a small part of me is extrovert.
No idea what a scuba dress is but sounds like youre looking and feeling good.
Definitely go with Dude, where's my H?
Good for you raliced! And I think you are right about the timeline playing a part in the feelings we are experiencing. I definitely went though a lot of shock and sadness at first then moved on to happy feisty when up and anger, hate and disgust when down. What fun is coming up next?
Right now I'm feeling pretty up and not even that feisty. But I'm always feisty so what can you do.
Have a great day and rock that sexy dress girl!
Hugs, Lisa
raliced...how do you pronounce that?
I have no idea Shakespr..I've never tried to pronounce it. My middle name is "Alice" and I just plopped initials on either side. It was my go to internet nom de plume back in dial up days and I just started using it again.
So something notable did happen yesterday. H stopped by the house to pick up a change of clothes for D6 (he kept her an extra night) and inadvertently ran into my parents who were there to check on the pooches.
Keep in mind that since the day of the BD, H has pretty much cut himself off. He only responds with one word responses via text to his Mom, (who is very very close to) shut down his Facebook acct, and by his own description "has no friends" (other than OW, I presume). When he picks up D6 from school, he bends over backwards to ensure that he doesn't run into my sister (who is there at the same time to pick up my nephew). Anyway- he always really liked my parents. So I think it was a good thing that they were pleasant to each other. Apparently they all brightly said "Hi!" and then all proceeded to talk to D3, instead of each other. Maybe when he realizes that people aren't going to try to throw rocks at him, he will at least behave with a little more normalcy.
I had my first DB coaching session about a month ago. The goal that we set at that time was at least civil, pleasant communication, and I think we have gotten to that (although it is very limited). Set up my next appt for next week, and I am trying to to think up some goals - maybe getting H to participate in some type of family activity, like coming to D6s soccer games (he hadn't been able to do that before because of his schedule, but now he should be able to). Any other thoughts for short term goals?
Does the DB coach encourage making goals for H -- like him coming to games? This is one of those DB points that I get confused about. Sandi's rules say "don't make dates" and "don't initiate contact" but then also that it's okay to invite them along to things as long as it's clear that there are no expectations. How does one do that?
For me, I've been NC, just responding to him and child-related stuff. As a result, I got asked to dinner Sunday with him and daughter. If it were me, I would be hesitant about setting goals that involve H at this point. I would set goals for myself that may (or may not) affect how H sees me, but they would be goals for my own benefit. But that's just me!
Thanks Ahoy - My DB coach specifically mentioned (at the tail end of my last call) that because my H appears to be depressed, getting out and doing family activities might be beneficial for him. I think in my case because even the necessary communication regarding kids has been so strained we had to at least get that on a more positive footing - but it was approached as me giving him words of affirmation.
Got off to a productive start this weekend.
Coached D6's soccer game (We won 6-0, thank you very much)
Painted another hallway
Completed a project of picking out a bunch of the best photos I have of the girls, framed them and put them up in freshly painted hallway. I decided not to inclde photos with H (not because I have a problem with it, but because I think he would not like it right now), and since I didn't include H, I didn't include me, just grandparents and cousins.
Continued winterizing house by cleaning out the gutters, which used to be H's job. And can I just say, I don't get what all of the hullabaloo was about - he always presented it as such a major deal, and frankly it seemed kind of easy.
Had my parents over for dinner.
Was feeling really good and then got an email from H with his proposed days to have the girls this month. Nothing bad - its just that I still can't get used to the fact that I am discussing visitation with my children. So far from what I ever envisioned...sigh.
Tomorrow will go to church, run, finish painting project (one more hall to go), clean out gutters around garage and figure out what I'm supposed to do with the waterpipes for winter so that I'm prepared when we have the first freeze.
I still can't wrap my head around making visitation arrangements for D. I don't think I'll ever get used to it. It's so unnatural and just a glaring reminder of DIVORCE in all its glory.
I see what you mean about these jobs that H referred to as a hullabaloo. In LA we don't do a lot of winterizing but many of the things H used to do and complain constantly about I now do without thinking twice about. What was all the complaining about?
I'm impressed with your hanging photos and painting. I've been doing my share of decorating. I've been planting indoor plants like crazy. They add life to the house and bring the outdoors in. H, when he left, said that he hated the house and how it felt to him. I think that's always in the back of my mind. Our home was not a place of comfort for him and that hurts. I'm definitely putting my own stamp on it since he's not here but it definitely feels like more of a long-term home (H.aving moved around a ton as a child I'm guilty of not officially moving in for a while. Hanging things on walls, etc., just feels so permanent. I crave permanence but it's hard for me to bring it.).
Anyway, It sounds like you're building a foundation and a place of comfort for yourself.
It feels good, huh?
Thanks Ss,
Honestly, I have struggled to figure out where to do 180s, and therefore I am focusing on things like the house. I'll freely admit to being a bit of a slob, and since I work full time as well, the house got extra chaotic. Plus, H and I never really synced up our cleaning routines. I did asked him if it bothered him several times and he always claimed it didn't, but who knows? I figure having a polished comfortable, clean, uncluttered home is one of the most visible 180s I can do right now and more importantly makes life nicer for both me and my children right now.
It was fun going through all those photos and I have a nice mix of casual shots and studio portraits - I got a zillion cheap Ikea frames so that I can just keep adding. That part did feel good and the girls love looking at pictures of themselves and happily I didn't get zinged with a "Where's Daddy's picture"
It's a weird new reality for sure.
Ugh... rough, rough morning.
Out of nowhere, D3 started chirping "Where's Daddy? I want Daddy!" over and over again. She's on the young side of 3, still a toddler really, so when I explain she'll see him tomorrow, she doesn't completely get it.
I should say that this kind of stuff pre-dates the BD. H's work schedule was always unconventional and changed all the time - so I have lots of experience of answering "Where's Daddy?" and "When are we going to see Daddy?" - but now of course, with the separation, these comments are a lot more poignant and heart wrenching.
He comes to get them ready one day a week, and when D3 wakes up and sees him - she is so overjoyed (Daddy, Daddy, you're here!). About a month ago, I was thinking, "He would have to be made of stone not to be affected by that" and then I realized that is just a version of mind reading. Who knows, maybe his ego is stroked by their excitement, and being Fun Dad one or two days a week is really all he wants. I decided it would drive me crazy to think about, so I stopped doing it. That made things easier - but when I have a morning like this, those thoughts start to creep in a bit, and I have to firmly tell them to stop.
In GAL news, I inherited a large greenhouse from the previous owners of our house, and I've never really done anything with it. Going to look for some extension gardening courses and try to get some ideas for things to do with it in the winter. I would love some projects that the girls can do with me as well.
My S6 has gotten in Ws way as she hustling out the door, asking her why she's always leaving, and once insisted that we do an activity "all five of us together". I too expected that to hit W like a ton of bricks but....no. We had an opportunity to do just that yesterday but she predictably bailed.
How do you answer the increasing g questions about where Daddy is?
Hi 1foot2,
My situation is a little unique - my H is a deputy sheriff and he has always had weird hours, including graveyard shifts that require him to sleep all day. Really, there hasn't been a huge decrease in his time with the girls. For the time being, we have told the girls that he needs to sleep closer to work (he works abut 45 minutes away). D6 has accepted that. D3 is still too young. It was actually a little surprising to hear that from D3, because she's always been a complete mommy's girl (this actually caused some strain in the marriage because it really hurt H's feelings, and I think he actually blamed me a little).
I'm okay handling the "Where's Daddy" questions (although it hurts my heart). What I'm really dreading is the day D6 notices that we never do anything all together anymore (we didn't do a huge amount before, due to his schedule, but we did do some)and asks about it.
Yeah that is similar to my sitch. W and I work schedules such that we've always kindof traded off parenting duties. She's just kinda flexing that little by little, assuming (mind reading I know) that it's imperceptible to the kids. But it's glaringly obvious. And yep, we used to do things all together (although sadly not enough, this status quo has been developing long before BD) and now that's disappeared.
I managed to shake off my sadness about D3 crying for Daddy this morning, the truth is that this sort of thing happened before the separation as well and is just part of our lives. Happily I can still make her feel better.
So my MIL is flying in from out of state around Halloween and she and I are going to take the girls on a long planned trip to Disneyland. H has not spoken to his Mom since BD and they just have brief texts with each other. He is well aware that she is not happy with this situation (its one of the things about all this that is so hard to believe - they were always so close). I'm sure she would like to see him, but I think she's looking to me to set the tone.
I was going to send H her itinerary, say that I'm sure the girls would love to see him and Grandma together, I would be amenable to anything that he wants to do and that he should contact his Mom directly. Likewise, I was going to tell her to contact him directly about seeing each other while she is here.
Any other thoughts on how to handle? It feels painfully awkward. That being said - it will be delightful to get away with her and the girls and have fun.
Hi Raliced,
I've read a few times round here that its best to limit involvement in this sort of stuff. So I'd suggest maybe nothing more than saying 'MIL is coming to visit roubd halloween and if H wants to try and arrange anything to let you know'
Or let you MIL figure out how to coordinate seeing her own son. Why is this your problem? I personally would stay out of it as much as possible, if you can.
^^^
Their relationship is their issue. I wouldn't say a word about it. (Why do you even have to be the one who tells him that his own mother is coming to visit???)
You don't have to tell them anything, even to say that you are not managing their relationship. Enjoy your time with MIL and your kids. They are grownups and can figure it out themselves.
Thanks All, I hear your wisdom. I knew I shouldn't put myself in the middle, but H in particular is so passive right now - I couldn't see him doing anything. And my MIL is trying to be considerate of my feelings. I think at a minimum I will still just let her know that H is welcome to come around and see her.
Yep, he might not do anything. How is that your problem?
Do you want him to come around? Will it upset you if he comes around?
It is possible for them to make arrangements to visit without you at an outside location, no? Couldn't they make plans to have lunch or dinner or go somewhere-- without you? Is there something logistical that would prevent that from happening?
I don't mean to be harsh but I encourage you to examine why you want to stick your fingers in this, even just a little bit.
Is your MIL expecting you to help resolve or facilitate her R with her own son? Does that seem ok to you?
Hmmm- thank you Claire - you are giving me good reasons to reflect here. Why am I dipping my fingers into this?
I think the answer is twofold.
I do have some concern here for MIL. She is just bewildered by all of this. Right after BD, she called me and was absolutely terrified that I would keep the girls from her...which is ridiculous, I would never do that in a million years...but nonetheless she was worried about it. We don't converse much about what's going on (I don't want to put her in the middle of anything) but she makes comments about how broken-hearted she is and how she didn't raise him this way. I just want her to be comfortable during her visit and not worry about offending me, so all I'm suggesting right now - is telling her that nothing she could do in regards to seeing him with the girls would upset me. I feel for her, she is dealing with a new reality too.
They can absolutely go to neutral ground - in fact I would assume that's what they would end up doing, given H's distaste for being in the house.
The other reason is probably deeper. My H has been absurdly passive since he moved out. Other than the step he actually took to move, he defers to me on absolutely everything. For example, he waits for me to tell him when I he can see the girls (He frames it as when he is "allowed" to see the girls- despite my repeated attempts to explain he has a say in this) and then when I pop it back into his court - he tries again with "whatever works best for you". I confess this drives me crazy. Forget the marriage, it just doesn't seem like an effective separation. Somewhat selfishly, I guess I was trying to poke him into actually taking action on something. I'm scheduled to talk to my DB coach tomorrow and was planning on tackling how to handle my reaction to his passivity.
Bit of a disappointment tonight. H had D3 all day and then picked up D6 from school and took her to soccer practice. Normally he would have them tonight, but he has an early work meeting tomorrow, so we decided it would be best if they stayed with me. This morning I texted and suggested he might like to take D6 out to dinner after practice and then drop her at home. She doesn't get the one on one time that D3 does and I thought it would be nice for both of them.
He responded that he had already committed to help a friend (a month ago he said he had no friends), but would try to get out of it. Then he said he had told "them" that he would be a little late.
So we left soccer practice at the same time, I had D3 and he had D6. The big dinner apparently consisted of stopping at McDonalds and D6 eating it in the car. I barely beat them home. This will be the only time he has her this week.
So...on the positive side- the text exchanges where he sent this to me were the longest ones I've seen in over a month. I also feel no curiousity about his "friends" and the new life he is apparently building. I guess that's good.
I'm always torn between wondering if he is leaving me or if he is leaving his life - I tend to think he is just trying to leave me but then something like tonight happens and I recpnsider and really question his priorities.
Rallied,
I say this with compassion, but it does seem like you have a bit of a controlling side.
"This morning I texted and suggested he might like to take D6 out to dinner after practice and then drop her at home. She doesn't get the one on one time that D3 does and I thought it would be nice for both of them."
I think you gotta let him be.
Well, I'll certianly consider that - H and I agreed last week that we needed to find One on One opportunities for him and D6 (he can't see her on the weekend when she's out of school) and he left it in my court with a "let me know" - which is why I suggested it - he was certainly free to say no. I was just disappointed at his lack of effort after he said yes.
Can you put a regular parenting schedule in place?
It is somewhat in place but because he works in law enforcement it changes constantly (for example - he didn't keep them tonight because of a meeting in the morning) - He gets them one night a week (its a lengthy commute to where he has chosen to live). During that day he has D3 all day, because we can just pull her out of daycare, but D6 is in school on all his days off - so we agreed she needs more. She will spend an extra night a month and we will look for other opportunities for him to spend time with just her (going on field trips etc). I have made the suggestion that he play a more active part in setting the schedule - but he just responds "whatever you think is best". The only topic he has really intiated was the first discussion about overnights with him.
Its the passive thing - I'm really looking forward to talking to DB coach about how I can handle it better tomorrow.
I make it sound like we talk about this a lot - and that is not the case at all - just a couple of email exchanges and a brief chat during drop off.
Hi raliced, It might give you some peace to draw up a parenting schedule with him, that way you can take your hands off the wheel a bit. You can find sample schedules online. Maybe choose a few that you think might work, and ask him which one he wants to pursue or if he has a different idea for what schedule would work. If he defers to you, then just pick one and stick to it as much as possible, but at least you won't have to constantly be put in a position of having to make the decisions because of his passivity.
I agree with Ahoy. And push yourself to take emotion out of it as much as possible. You can only control you. So, offer a proposal, maybe for a month in advance (even if it's general, like "H will have D one evening a week, blah blah blah, to be determined when H's schedule comes out on Sundays" (or whatever), ask him his thoughts, and say, ok let's try it for 3 months.
Then, stick to it as much as possible. And make plans for the times he is scheduled to be with D. And problem solve a back up plan together (besides just you as the default).
I'm being very prescriptive, but trying to get you to think outside the box in a problem solving way. You can't just wish him to be different, but you can be the best you given the situation.
What do you think?
Today is my anniversary.
I'm not going to be a hypocrite - we never did much to observe anniversaries and I can't pretend that I am really "missing" any thing special - but it is an opportunity to reflect. When my husband left, he said about 5 times that he had "ruined everything". At first I felt that he had as well, as this as touched every aspect of my life. But I find that there is a lot to be grateful for.
I have two beautiful daughters that I adore.
I have a loving family that lives close and would do anything to help me and my children. I know I am fortunate with this.
When I married my husband I gained an extended family as well. So far, they have contines to love and support me - I know everyone is not as lucky.
I'm an introvert and have always had a smaller group of close friends, but they have all rallied round to keep an eye on me, even high school friends who live half a world a way,
God has blessed me with many talents and abilities. I am able to keep food on the table and a roof over my girls heads. If I need to make more to keep our family home, I know I can do that.
I have built a life that includes a precious family, a beautiful home in a community that I love and meaningful work.
I am grateful for my husband too. I won't allow the events of the past few months to taint the wonderful memories of preceeding years. I am better for him being in my life. I don't know if we will find a way to repair what was broken and make something new, but if I had to do it all over again - I would still make those vows.
Finally- I am grateful to have this place to work through some of these issues and be a part of this community. I've nver participated on an internet forum in my life. Who knew?
Wow raliced. I aspire to get where you are, emotionally. What you posted was amazing. To be able to feel nothing but gratitude -- even toward your H-- on your anniversary is awe-inspiring. My anniversary is coming up next month, and I'm dreading it, even though, like you, I never really celebrated in any big way in the past.
You are a positive role model to me today.
Thanks Ahoy-
I know my husband is a good man and I have learned much from him - patience and fun among other things. After all, I have good taste!
But...it's still bittersweet - I am keenly aware that he does not share these feelings right now and may never again.
wow ral,
that's an amazing sentiment. i am truly jealous of you and also aspire to be like you in that regard. my W constantly tells me that she wishes she had kids with someone else and she was supposed to have a good life. you're my hero.
wow ral,
that's an amazing sentiment. i am truly jealous of you and also aspire to be like you in that regard. my W constantly tells me that she wishes she had kids with someone else and she was supposed to have a good life. you're my hero.
Well Bravo, I must say I think in this regard I have it much easier than you. My H has done some crummy things, but he has never made such a mean-spirited and hurtful comment. I'm sorry your W said that to you.
Wow raliced what a truly inspiring post.
I think all your friends and family are so lucky to have you in their lives and your daughters can only grow to have the same goodness and kindness in their hearts also.
I am humbled and a little ashamed of all the bitterness I seem to be holding on to.
Much love
Ral ....
Ok .. I realize that this is not my place to say this but I see one thing in your sitch that I just want to point out. (Small 2x4 ) You say that you are having a hard time with H being passive. ...... Confession ... I became passive in my M, my IC pointed it out, it eroded my self esteem and in a big way contributed to the issues in my M. Reading how "We agreed, you suggested, this and that" .... I cringed. My W became controlling (because she had to..someone had to take control, and it got to a point it was easier letting her do it than to argue over it) and honestly I started resenting her for that ... hearing his replies to you .. "What ever works for you, what ever you think, am I allowed" he is afraid of conflict with you , and in a way might be running away from that ... I did the same thing .. I never left her, pfffft to terrified to take it that far, but I sure as hell avoided her for years at night.
This might be a good 180 spot for you ... refuse to make these "suggestions and decisions" throw it back in his court and allow him to be a man so to speak. I ended up taking this type of tone back as of late and it has proved valuable .. maybe this might be beneficial
Caliguy-
I really appreciate you taking the time to stop by my thread. And I assure you I take it in the spirit it was intended. I will definitely be on the lookout for this. I have to say the issue with H being passive predates our marriage and even our dating. It was actually my biggest reservation about marriage with him. When I have broached the subject in the past, he always responded with "happy wife, happy life ". I actually had a DB coaching session today and she wanted me to poke him a little into doing family events. So I won't be able to completely eliminate the suggestions - but I will take your warning to heart.
Wow- so here I have been ruminating about my husbands passivity off and on for the last couple of days and all of the sudden he does something assertive.
I got an email from him this evening. Just to review right after BD, I asked him for a 6 month cooling off period. I also explained that he would have to help me with a refi on the house if we were going to save it. he agreed to both things. The appraisal for the house came in low and I have been in the process of challenging it.
In his email he had linked the 6 months and the refi together- he said he just wanted to know what was going on with it. He seemed to think possibly that I was going to file right after the refi was completed . He mentioned me filing 3 times. He wanted to know "what was the plan" and said he didn't know what the next steps were. I have no idea how he got everything so jumbled up.
So anyway I responded. It was pretty simple - I know I have said all these things before to him - but they don't seem to have completely registered. Here is what I said.
What is the next step? I guess that is where there is some confusion. You have mentioned financial issues, but to me they are not tied to the 6 months- when I asked for a 6 month cooling off period it was primarily because I did not think we should do anything immediately. This will affect too many lives, yours, mine, our daughters, our families, etc. Frankly, I think we should wait even longer before such a terrible step, but I'll take 6 months.
What is the plan? I do not want a divorce. I think you know that and I have told you that. When I was a kid my worst nightmare was that my parents would divorce and now we are contemplating inflicting that pain on our precious daughters. That is literally incomprehensible to me. You and I have both made a lot of mistakes in this marriage and we have both been unhappy. I do not want to go back to the old marriage. However we have never made any contsructive attempt to resolve these issues. I am willing to do that with you, but you are in another relationship. I am aware that it would take a lot of work on both of our sides and would be very difficult.
If at the end of 6 months you still want to divorce, I will work together with you to put together some sort of mutually acceptable plan and we can put it in the hands of a mediator (who can help resolve any issues or disagreements we might have). I will not file for divorce, you will have to do that. We are not divorcing. You are divorcing me.
Ugh. So now I guess I get to sit and wait for what he says.
Raliced,
I noticed that in an earlier thread you wrote this about a 180.
Trying to figure out where to pull a 180 is challenging. I know that prior to all this, my husband was fond of saying things like "he married up" - and somewhere along the way he lost all admiration and respect for me. I know one of the issues in the marriage is that I probably avoided conflict and let all the little things go that were bothering me - but doing a 180 on that one and directly addressing things that bother me directly now - seems to run counter to the whole concept of detaching and LRT.
Then today you wrote this...
However we have never made any contsructive attempt to resolve these issues. I am willing to do that with you, but you are in another relationship.
I am curious why you said to him "in another relationship"
and why not call it what it really is.. AN AFFAIR?????
Was this to avoid conflict again? To me there is a huge difference in the way you addressed that. Maybe calling it what it really is would gain back some respect from him for you. It doesn't have to be said in a mean way, however I think it should be said in a matter of fact way. He's having an affair. It is what it is....
Just curious why you phrased it that way to him.
Just curious....
Wow -- that is verbatim what I would like to write to my H, if only we were communicating about anything important.
I'm sure it was hard to come up with the right words, but I think you did a fine job. You're making it clear that you're willing to work, and that the ball is in his court. He will have to take responsibility for the D if that's what he wants.
Thanks Ahoy - I was back to no sleeping last night. I cannot figure out how he got it in his head that I was planning on filing. We've only had two real conversations and I feel like during those I must have sounded llike Charlie Brown's teacher with only words like file, lawyer and divorce coming through. I know this probably wasn't classic DBing but I really felt I had to address those misconceptions. And probably not bad to have it in writing in case he starts to drift again.
He has not responded yet. I guess I get to look forward to a day of checking my phone for an answer every 5 minutes. Maybe he wil really startle me and actually call, but I doubt it.
I'd like to write something similar to my W if only to ask for the 6 months. Doubt it would have a positive effect though.
I hope you don't get too stressed checking your phone and manage to have a good day
Ugh..Ugh..
What a difference a day makes. Yesterday I was mellow and reflective, full of positive feelings, and today I keep thinking I am going to throw up. Still no word.
Really, what has changed? He said back on BD day that he wanted a divorce. If he comes back and says that again, there is really no difference - he just might want to move faster.
So- still no word back from him. Maybe I just answered his question to his satisfaction.
However- I'm not happy with my response to this incident. I had a hard time functioning yesterday. It became crystal clear that my biggest fear in all of this is reduced time with my kids (up to 50%), and when formal divorce seemed a little closer, I panicked.
I stopped seeing my IC because she was very negative and kept pushing me to just accept H was gone (a week after he left). Maybe I need to find another one who can help me deal with my kid angst.
I can act and even feel "as if" in regards to other parts of divorce. I know I can heal from a broken heart, the finances are worrisome, but I have faith in myself as a provider, but missing out on such a big block of my kids childhood is simply terrifying. That part of it makes me feel like I am in a horror movie.
Fears are funny. My biggest fear is seeing my children caught up in the big ball of crazy that is my wife hopping into a 4th marriage w/ a man who is probably all right, but not me. And my kids seeing it. And thinking that it is normal. Truthfully, since I am no longer working on the R w/ my wife, I have MORE time with my children than before. Time to just throw 'em all in the car and watch OU/TX weekend fireworks. Time to go to the pool and swim laps. Good time.
You will not miss out on a big block of their childhood if D happens. Their childhood, however, will be forever changed. That is true, and something we who believe in marriage must deal with in our own way, with forgiveness and humility.
I hear you Shakespr. And I agree - since H moved out - I actually think I've been a better parent to my kids.
I actually condensed my fears around the kids into "reduced time with them" but of course there's a lot more too it than that.
I worry that my kids will have to constantly shuttle back and forth between households and won't feel that they have a single, comforting "real" home.
I worry that I won't be able to provide the life that we originally planned for them.
I too worry about the influence of potential stepmothers.
I worry that this will affect their adult relationships.
And so on...and so on.. and so on....
I know that there are many kids who turn out perfectly well from divorced households. Some of them are on these boards. It just seems like the odds got a lot harder.
It's something I need to work on - if this all comes to pass, I can't let my fears affect my daughters.
Let me give you the other side of the coin.
My parents stayed married until my youngest brother started college.
They bickered daily/weekly depending on whether or not Dad was home (often out of town, in construction.) Put-downs, snark, disagreement and disappointment filled their conversations. Backing down and forgiveness were foreign concepts
My brothers and I bonded well, but we look at our parents as knuckleheads. Dad is verbally abusive and completely out of our lives, in spite of attempts by each of us (as adults) to re-initiate a relationship. He has severed that through actions repeatedly despicable.
Mom is bitter and permanently unhappy at her lot in life. Thinks the only thing she ever got right was raising her boys. Has been extremely crude and crass with wives and grandchildren. She doesn't know what the word appropriate means. I, of course, love her to pieces. But I need a Grandma for my kids.
We all tried to cope by doing virtually ANYTHING else with our lives, often a combination of service to country, corporate success, consistently good providers for our family, no infidelity. We live by principles. Unfortunately, we didn't develop very good relationship skills, often viewing the world through a lens of "us" vs. "everyone who disagrees with us."
I mention this only to say...you are already trying harder, and actually thinking about what it takes, to be a better parent. No matter what your H does. If you did nothing else for the rest of your life but read DB/DR, and applied those principles to relationship building...if you simply stop going down cheeseless tunnels... your children will be better for it.
Home is where the heart is. You've got tons of that.
I understand your fears completely. I often see my situation of three against one. Especially since there was no hostility in our marriage that I saw, nor did the kids see it. Our kids (4,5) constantly ask me questions about the future and it breaks my heart that I can't currently help them with that. That translates into me hating the time that I can't spend with them. I myself can't even anticipate that feeling far into the future so I can empathize with them. During my BD, I said to my wife that this isn't a decision for one person, its for four people. Its ashame as parents, we can't even come to agreement on what is best for them. While we're all struggling with not being able to decide with our spouses what is best, each and everyone one of is us here is fighting what we feel is best and we need to take solace that is a big part of what a great parent does for their kids. That's all we can do right now and their future and our own personal futures are out of our hands. So we can't let that get in the way of the present. Its tough, and I think I should heed my own words
Never did hear from H. He'll be here tomorrow to pick up the girls so maybe he will have something to say then.
My DB coach says I'm supposed to chat more and make some conversation during these exchanges. I guess this afternoon, I'm going to have to write down some stuff to say and practice it or I can see myself awkwardly and mechanically saying something like "How about that Ebola, crazy, huh?"
My MIL reached out and told me she had sent H her itinerary for when she comes out in a few weeks and was leaving it up to him to take the initiative to suggest something but she wasn't expecting to see him. She also said that the really important and valuable thing was to spend every possible moment with "the girls and you". I have to say, that made me feel pretty good, although I am sad for H.
Have had a good weekend. Bought some vintage games and spent a fantastic couple of evenings playing "Hungry, Hungry Hippo" and Twister with the girls, my team won their soccer match 5-2 (it turns out I am a pretty good coach) we went to a pumpkin patch, I sang in the choir this morning and got to watch D6 in the front row beam with pride and am topping it off by making homemade pretzels with them and watching my favorite football team.
I'm going to have to write down some stuff to say and practice it or I can see myself awkwardly and mechanically saying something like "How about that Ebola, crazy, huh?"
.
That made me lol thanks for that .
I'm going to have to write down some stuff to say and practice it or I can see myself awkwardly and mechanically saying something like "How about that Ebola, crazy, huh?"
.
That made me lol thanks for that .
But so true. :-)
H picked up kids this morning and did not reference email exchange at all- so I'm just going with - "I answered his question".
As instructed by DB coach - I tried to make more conversation, talked about how D6's reading is going, Halloween scheduling, soccer game etc (all kids stuff - I really need to open it up to some other topic). Our exchange usually takes about 2 minutes. I think I managed to stretch it to 5.
I did ask him if he would take me, the kids and his Mom to the airport when we leave for our Disneyland trip in a couple of weeks and pick us up as well (DB coach approved of this). He said yes without hesitation.
I notice that while H is usually pretty grim these days he does seem to mirror my tone somewhat when we interact - so I am really going to have push the positive attitude, maybe it will rub off :-). I also think if I am going to fulfill DB coach's instructions to increase conversation, I am going to really have to work at asking some open ended questions so that he says something other than "ok". Small talk is not my strong suit.
On the plus side - while I was tense ahead of time (as always), I actually didn't feel the usual swell of emotion when I actually saw him. That was nice.
Had a funny moment today. A Fedex package was delivered at my work . I had a moment of absolute panic and dread where I thought it was divorce papers (which I admit are probably not delivered via FedEx- Whoops).
It was actually a very handsome plaque from my company recognizing that I had finished my Six Sigma Black Belt Certification. I had to really scramble on this - the final work was due a couple of weeks after BD, and I almost went off the rails with it.
Anyway- Now that I have it, I'm hoping I'll be able to find another position with the company that will allow me to work from home a signicant amount of the time - and it should help me get to making that mortgage payment by myself.
H has girls - so house is empty - will celebrate with the hounds and kitties instead.
Excellent achievement! I know a few SixSigma Green Belts; our Black Belts (defense company) typically all head up corporate or financial projects.
I know how hard that training is; I only have my specialist level training.
I am tipping a virtual glass in your direction!
Congratulations, raliced! That's great!
I'll admit, every time the doorbell rings during the day my heart starts to pound thinking it's divorce papers. I wonder if that will ever go away.
If you're celebrating, consider me one of the kitties. I'm toasting YOU!
LOL! I had a similar experience with a certified mail envelope that I received soon after BD and that I had to sign for. I was sweating when I opened it. It was a letter from VW about a recall!
Congrats on the certification! Sounds like that will help you take a step in the right direction.
I'm likewise struggling with conversation when I see my H. I'll be interested to hear if you come across some strategies to make conversation a little easier.
On the up part of the roller coaster today and by golly, I'm going to embrace it. Signed up to work towards my PMP certification as well. Might as well use those occasional sleepless nights and evenings when H has kids for something constructive. Being highly employable (hopefully) makes me feel empowered and I could use a little more of that in my life right now.
Rough morning DB friends. H has informed me that he filing for divorce. He spelled out how he is trying to make it as "easy" on me as possible. Feeling so low.
Rali, post here often. We'll stick with you. Praying for you immediately.
Sending hugs, I'm really sorry.
I guess I should give some details. It sounds like he has actually filed - he said it would be more favorable to me if it was heard in my county so there is already a petition to move it there.
He said our marriage had become too much like his parents because we sleep in separate beds. For the record, we do this because of his work schedule and I always thought it bothered me more than him.
He also said he is planning on establishing residency in Nevada so that when the girls are older he can move there becasue he "hates California".
Happily my DB coach is available today so I have a coaching session with her.
THis shouldn't bother me quite so much. I was fully expecting him to file in January when our self imposed waiting period lifted (he is so withdrawn I just didn;t think major improvement was possible by then) - but I figured time was my ally and was trying to stretch everything as much as possible.
Time is still your ally. You just may have to go through this tremendously awful experience. Please take care of yourself today.
So sorry too raliced. My h has told me he wants a divorce and I received a letter from his L last week. So I know what it feels like.
Please take care of you and the girls, you will get through this.
Sending love x
I'm sorry raliced. And Stacey, too. Sending hugs to both of you.
I had responded to him saying that I would rather go through mediation than use attys. He said he had already filed and was using an atty, but emphasized he wasn't going to fight me on anything and just wants a flexible child arrangement.
He said "I too wish we could have worked on things before, but this would have been several years ago when I thought what we had was a perfect country life."
He did say he would go to counseling for the girls.
He can't seem to figure out if the marriage used to be all c*** or if its just the fault of the move. By the way - we still live in a very rural area and actually have more property than we did in Iowa.
Ugh..ugh...ugh...
I know I will feel differently later - but today part of me wants to take him up on the amicable arrangement and just be done with it.
Just had call with DB Coach. Honestly- that was a bit of a downer. She said cases like this where the spouse is so withdrawn and has not stated needs are very tough. There's also almost no opportunity to rebuild an emotional connection because of our lack of contact.
Nothing to do but continue GAL and PMA.
I'm not going to do anything to slow down the divorce - right now he is being amenable and I'm afraid it will turn adversarial.
Maybe I will finally get that cry in today.
rali...I feel for you. Mine withdrew in a different way - her only emotion is frustration. She is very cold.
Cry as much as you need to. I do, though I am getting pretty tired of it. Scream at the wind with someone who will listen to you and hold your hand.
" I'm afraid it will turn adversarial. "
Don't be afraid. Fight the fear. That's what feeds the sadness. You're worth it.
So sorry to hear your news raliced, and you too stacey.
GAL & PMA are the way to go though.
I'll be thinking of you.
(Not so) Old Dog xx
This has been an emotionally draining day. I'm not going to fight H on D and won't try to stretch things out. He did say he would go to counseling - so I guess I will look into that for January- maybe his affair will have burned out by then and frankly I don't want all this to cast a shadow on the holidays.
He's not the man I used to know and who kows what will emerge after he comes out of his funk (if ever). He's so irrational right now. He felt compelled to tell me he was going to establish residency in Nevada so that when the girls are out of school he can move out of this state "forever" because he "despises" it so much. Really? In the middle of telling me he is moving forward with a divorce he needs me to know his plans for 15 years from now?
I know things will get better, I do. Rationally, I know I'm a strong woman. I always have been. But tonight, I' really not looking forward to coparenting for the next 15 years. How did such a wonderful man turn into an adolescent? Is there something wrong with me that I didn't see it earlier?
I'm still glad I married him, if for no other reason than the magnificent kids we share.....
raliced,
I can't offer any advice but I can empathize with your emotionally draining day. I'll give you my shoulder if I can have yours.
Sending you support and ((((hugs))))
I know this is probably a bad idea - but I feel like poking him again regarding his living situation. If he is really living with OW - then he will have left me abruptly, moved in with an OW he claimed to have been seeing for only two weeks prior and then insisted on a divorce three months later. I think that would make it much easier to truly detach and even drop the rope.
Honestly the leaving abruptly and filing for divorce thre months later should be enough.....
I know this is probably a bad idea - but I feel like poking him again regarding his living situation. If he is really living with OW - then he will have left me abruptly, moved in with an OW he claimed to have been seeing for only two weeks prior and then insisted on a divorce three months later. I think that would make it much easier to truly detach and even drop the rope.
Honestly the leaving abruptly and filing for divorce thre months later should be enough.....
Raliced, I have deliberately not asked questions about things that I think the answers would make me not want to keep fighting for my M. Maybe that's sticking my head in the sand. Think hard about whether you really want to put things in your head that you can't recover from. Not saying you shouldn't, just realize it's a choice with consequences.
raliced -- just caught up on your situation and I am so sorry to hear what you've been going through this week. Can I ask: What were his grounds for D? Does he have to have grounds? I hope your situation can be resolved amicably. I'm struggling with anxiety about the dissolution process and if me and STBXH will be able to move through that amicably and with grace, keeping our D14's interests at heart. I know I am, but it's hard to trust someone who has lied so much.
Raliced, I have deliberately not asked questions about things that I think the answers would make me not want to keep fighting for my M. Maybe that's sticking my head in the sand. Think hard about whether you really want to put things in your head that you can't recover from. Not saying you shouldn't, just realize it's a choice with consequences.
I hear you - and I have taken that approach with other things. I separated my phone from the main wireless account because I didn't want to read through a bunch of text records (which I am sure exist) because I knew I could never unsee them.
I'm trying to examine my motives here - and part of just feels like I have never really understood what I am up against. There's leaving because you're depressed and unhappy and then there's completely blowing up your life because of MLC.
I dunno.
raliced -- just caught up on your situation and I am so sorry to hear what you've been going through this week. Can I ask: What were his grounds for D? Does he have to have grounds? I hope your situation can be resolved amicably. I'm struggling with anxiety about the dissolution process and if me and STBXH will be able to move through that amicably and with grace, keeping our D14's interests at heart. I know I am, but it's hard to trust someone who has lied so much.
CA is a no fault state - he doesn't need grounds. I think I said this already but part of me wants to rush the agreement part through while he is being amicable (he still seems to be willing to defer to me on child schedule for example). He seems pretty willing ot help keep us in our house which will require more than the usual amount of child support, at least for a year or two until my income catches up. Oh- and technically I would proabably have to pay him a smittance of alimony. Hopefully he will waive that.
Will see H for the first time since the divorce announcement at D6's soccer game today. In his email, he made a big deal out of this (since he has to get up early) as evidence of how he wants to be an "active dad".
What is the etiquette for seeing your estranged spouse for the first time after they have affirmatively stated they want to get the heck away from you ASAP? Ugh. I should seriously take up community theater, as I'm getting really good at acting.
I asked him two days ago when I should expect to be served and of course he hasn't answered. I hopoe he has the good sense to arrange this so its not done in front of the kids.
raliced, when I'm forced to go out in public with my estranged H in community settings, I try to arrange to meet up with a friend there, so I have someone to hang with. It acts as a buffer and prevents me from focusing on H's presence. Sit among friends, have your support system in place. Good luck!
Well - I guess one thing just got cleared up. D6 just asked me if Daddy loved his friend, "Lisa" more than me. "Lisa and Daddy share the same bed at their house
Holy crap. That is awful. I have no words. What did you say? How are you feeling?
That's not good. Hope you're OK.
What a total ***+***. Sorry raliced we are all here for you.
Oh crap. Sorry raliced, that is horrid. Hope you are doing ok.
As far as the quick timeline you mentioned (BD, move out, file for divorce) - it sounds to me like your H is deep in the affair fog. If that doesn't work out (and it probably won't) I expect he will be very regretful of his hasty decisions.
The best thing you can do at this point is drop the rope completely and let him go on his path. if that means you get a divorce first then that is how it goes. But in Calif it takes 6 months, correct? It could likely be that before 6 months is up he changes his mind. If you can remain cool, calm and collected throughout this process you will keep your dignity and if you still have any interest in reuniting that would give you the best chance.
Maybe at this point you hate him so much you can't imagine reuniting but try to stay cool for now and amicable and see what the future holds. These affairs can burn out quickly.
A friend of mine made the decision to stop her divorce the week before it would have been final, and now they are happily expecting twins. That waiting period is there for a reason.
Good luck and keep your chin up! We are here for you.
Hugs, Lisa
Thanks Everyone,
So when H got to game - I asked him if he was still going to pretend that he didn't live with his girlfriend and he said "no". I told him what our daughter had said (including stuff about the PDAs they have done in front of the kids). Lots of "ok..ok...ok...ok" and some vague hostility.
On at least three previous occasions he has strenuously denied this and seemed indignant that I would doubt his word.
Lisa - I am in fact dropping the rope. I loved my husband - I do understand that he is in a fog and I genuinely believe that he is depressed and not himself. Nonetheless, he still knows the difference between right and wrong and this was very wrong. I cannot love or respect a man who would be so oblivious to how damaging this could be to his kids and I don't want to be married to him right now.
I'm not entering any other romantic relationships and I will continue to DB- but I am under no illusion that it is for anyone but myself. Who knows what will happen years from now - but I have accepted that a divorce will happen.
I had to tell D6 what was going on (by myself because of course H took off after the game). I emphasized how much we both loved her, but that in fact Daddy was not going to live with Mommy anymore. She immediately asked if he was going to marry "Lisa" and then cried and said some incredibly painful things.
I am trying to be compassionate, I really am - but I am a long ways from forgiveness.
Oh raliced this is so hard I really feel your pain. He is such a fool and as for her well are there really no single available men out there?
Sending you love and hugs xxx
raliced, I'm sorry your day was so hard. Hugs to you tonight.
Raliced - I'm also very sorry to hear about this development. You seem to be reacting with courage. It's ok to feel weak, just as long as your actions are strong.
raliced, I am EXACTLY where you are, so I feel your pain. I hope, along with the pain, comes the clarity and conviction that comes with no longer being in limbo. It sounds like you have direction now for yourself. You are strong and will come through this just fine. Your H will have to deal with his relationship with the kids on his own terms. (I'm struggling with that right now.) I could have written much of what you wrote above. Who wants to stay married to someone that you can't respect? Who lies and cheats and only acts in their own self-interest, with no regard for the kids.
I'm done too. Rope officially dropped.
I can tell you that my brain is still trying to process everything, but since gaining the clarity of the situation with OW I have definitely moved on and feel clear for the first time in a long time, and it feels good. I hope the same is true for you. Let us know how you're doing.
I thought I might feel differently after a good nights sleep (and surprisingly I slept excellently) but I don't.
I know this will be a difficult year. At the moment it sounds like H and I should be able to settle the practical aspects pretty amicably but who knows if that will last. Like Ahoy mentioned I have a surprising amount of clarity right now.
Right now my biggest concern is that H might downward spiral into an even bigger mess. I don't know anything about current OW other than she is also a cop and named Lisa. However the first mistress had just been dumped by her husband and was in need of "rescuing" so I can't help but wonder what the story is with this one. Because whether I like it or not, he is playing happy family with her and my kids.
You know - after I told him I knew yesterday, he sat and watched the entire game with a big grin on his face.
Bah.
I'm glad you have clarity raliced, that must be nice :-) even if the rest is not going so well.
raliced, I don't know about you, but thinking about the whole D process triggers a lot of fear in me. I too want it to be amicable, but our communication right now is not great. I know it will be cheaper and more amicable if we sort out the details ourselves, but it sounds like torture to me having to meet with him to do so. It might be worth the money to file for D instead so I don't have to deal with him directly on those matters. My head is spinning trying to weigh my options. I hate this. Sorry for the hijack.
Clarity is good. I hope you (and Ahoy) can really make something positive for you and your kids.
If you can agree something with out an adversarial D process that would better When my parents divorced it got really bitter because people were hurt and angry and the end result was 2 kids caught in tge middle and a lot of money to lawyers. The more you can keep it amicable the better.
You seem like a really strong person who doesn't deserve this but I also get the impression your H doesn't deserve you
Just remember there is a difference between dropping a rope and burning it to a cinder
Good luck with everything
I know this is raliced thread, but just want to say: thank you, jim, for the kids-view perspective. That is helpful.
If you can agree something with out an adversarial D process that would better When my parents divorced it got really bitter because people were hurt and angry and the end result was 2 kids caught in tge middle and a lot of money to lawyers. The more you can keep it amicable the better.
I know a couple who have been fighting in court for 12 years after their D was final. The W's attorney's fees are $1.3 mil. That's insane. And their kids are really screwed up.
I know another couple who attended church as a family for years and years as their kids were growing up. A lot of us had no idea they were D. Their kids are great. The mom told me once that she bit her tongue a lot.
I want to be like the second couple. I know it's going to be hard. Good luck to us all.
No fear everyone- I genuinely intend this to be non-adversarial and H has declared in writing the same (I know its not legally binding but still a comfort). Yes- I've dropped the rope - but I will be right here with GAL, PMA and 180 flags flying. I will still be following coach's advice by being brightand cheerful and by giving H words of affirmation- we still have to somehow repair this catastrophe enough to co-parent after all. I just don't have to act "as if" anymore.
I confess - yes I want to be a woman that only a fool would leave but a secondary goal is that every 3rd party associated with this divorce process will also think "Dude- you are an a**hat for leaving her". Petty, but true.
I really don't know how to handle the kid thing right now. We should be addressing D6's concerns together. He sent an email tonight confirming kid pickup and drop off dates. I answered his questions and then gave him a description on the conversation with D6. He responded with another schedule clarification and no mention of D6. None.
I know that one of the worst things that can happen is that the kids feel like they have to pick sides. And wouldn't you know it, the first thing D6 said was "Mommy - I love you more than Daddy" in an anguished sob which. broke. my. heart. Sure - I reassured her it was fine to love Daddy, and that he was a good Daddy who loves her with all his heart. I don't know if I should tell him that little detail, but at the same time he should really know what she's going through. Mediation can't start fast enough. I know part of the process is co-parenting counseling which I think we need desperately.
H finally responded to my question about when I should expect to be served. I can give him a date or time or contact his lawyers so I will call them first thing in the morning.
I know all this sounds very angry and I'm not going to lie...of course I'm angry but I sincerely don't want to be. I know that won't help anyone, least of all my daughters. I will get it under control, And despite all, I feel for my STBX. He is a lost soul right now.
Had a lovely day helping my daughter with her "pumpkin book report" and then had a fantastic time at a local Halloween carnival with the girls where we learned to dance to Monster Mash, watched vey game amateur jugglers and got in some early Trick or Treating. The last few weeks I have realized how much the weird "off feeling" in our marriage had affected daily life and made me walk on the proverbial eggshells before BD. Its far easier to be fully present for my children and truly savor these moments with them.
Thanks to all for their kind words. Obviously have been going through a bit of an emotional vortex the last few days and haven't been giving other people's sitches enough attention. Will do better.
raliced, you are my hero right now. You are handling things with such grace, and your lack of fear inspires me. I need to embrace that.
The one thing I would say is this: do not tell your H what your daughter said about loving you more. That will do damage, and he will blame you, and maybe even unconsciously take it out on your daughter. You are biting your tongue in your daughter's best interest, as she will have to have a relationship with that man for the rest of her life. You do not. Keep that in mind.
My daughter is angry with H -- calls him names behind his back, wants to punch him in face, is angry, says she wants to move away. I would LOVE to tell H all this, because it would show him the damage that he is doing, but I know I would end up looking like the bad guy. All I can do is validate her feelings and encourage her to build a loving trusting relationship with H. Even though he's lying to her constantly while promising to tell her the truth always. I have to leave that alone. You do to. It is hard!
Wishing you peace and strength.
Thanks Ahoy-
Its easy to feel fearless at the moment because I've already faced my biggest fear - telling my daughter. I'm sure there will be other bad spots along the way (to put it mildly) and that other fears will come to the forefront. For example, I haven't really absorbed that the OW has been spending quality time with my kids. Let's not forget he claimed to have started this relationship only 2 weeks before bomb drop and then promptly moved in with her a week or two later. For once, I am hoping he's actually lying and that its been going on much longer. I mean, how well does he even know this person?
Thanks for the advice, my gut said I shouldn't say anything to him, but there's no roadmap for any of this.
I'm sorry about your daughter. Obviously there is never a great time for this, but early teenagehood does seem like it would be particularly hard.