Link to
inside my chrysalis 3 So it seems so many of us are realizing we are reactive communicators and that we spin big time after mind reading and negative thinking. So, our journey continues...
I absolutely love and need to know that others are in a similar situation as I am. It's comforting and makes me feel like less of a freak. Thanks for making me feel normal with my reactivity and negative mind reading! Now, let this thread be the end of it for all of us!
BTW, The book
How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It is a helpful and fascinating read. So much of its points ring true and I'm ashamed to admit that the NUMBER ONE WORST THING a woman can do to a man is shame him and that is precisely why I am in this situation. Man, I did everything wrong. Let's hope there's an opportunity to redeem myself.
Its good you are able to realize where you may have gone wrong in in your M. Just remember it fell apart because of actions, or inaction from the two of you. So do not beat yourself up!
Keep up the good PMA and GAL!
Yep. We can only work on our half. If our WAS's choose to reconcile, they will have a ton of work to do, too. We will surely have a long way to go, too, but I think we would all be in a better place to walk the path. If they don't, then our next lucky spouses (God willing) will get a much better version of us.
I agree - HTIYMWTAI is an enlightening read though it made me feel sick to the stomach to read at times. I too felt shame that I contributed to this dynamic in our M. I'm so frustrated that I didn't find these books before things fell off the deep end. As you say Ss, all we can do is hope that we can get another shot at this as our new enlightened selves.
ganb8te,
It's frustrating to not have known these books exist or known they were so full of wisdom but I personally believe I was in absolutely no state to read these books without overwhelming resentment over having to do all the work. I was SO hung up on that and sometimes even now find myself frustrated by that fact.
It's one thing to realize our past faults but quite another to be ruled and defined by them. I choose to see them for what they were and add more value to my efforts to change, be more aware, empathize and stop shaming. Looking forward is all we can do.
The past is the past. That doesn't mean we can't be genuinely sorry for it and recognize our contribution to the pain in our spouse and ourselves but we can't change what was. We can only change how we handle ourselves in the future.
We can do that, ganb8te. We really can.
I haven't read HTIYMWTAI, just the summary on Google Books, but I have read Men Are From Mars, Women Are from Venus?
Sounds like they may have similar advice. Hey we're different.
Yes, Old Dog, BUT HTIYMWTAI has SO much more. Being different isn't news. It's much more intense than that.
Not to belittle Men are from Mars, but this book advises a lot more than "look for your wife when you come home from work" or "don't eat a big meal when you go on a date so you aren't too tired or too full for continued romance".
So much more in this book.
ganb8te,
It's frustrating to not have known these books exist or known they were so full of wisdom but I personally believe I was in absolutely no state to read these books without overwhelming resentment over having to do all the work. I was SO hung up on that and sometimes even now find myself frustrated by that fact.
It's one thing to realize our past faults but quite another to be ruled and defined by them. I choose to see them for what they were and add more value to my efforts to change, be more aware, empathize and stop shaming. Looking forward is all we can do.
The past is the past. That doesn't mean we can't be genuinely sorry for it and recognize our contribution to the pain in our spouse and ourselves but we can't change what was. We can only change how we handle ourselves in the future.
We can do that, ganb8te. We really can.
I totally empathize with your frustrations. I would literally give my right leg to have read and believed all of these books 4 years ago, or even 1 year ago. I don't think I'd be in this spot if I had. BUT I also don't think I would have really gained anything from them if someone had forced me to read them. I thought I was the perfect husband. It took this hard dose of reality to show me that that was definitely not the case.
Quick question - Do you all think HTIYMWTAI is intended exclusively for women? I've never read it, but the summaries and reviews seem to be how to get through to men. Even if it is, I'm sure I could learn from it. Thoughts?
Ok, I've not eaten all day and I'm having a glass of wine so stick with me... I can't guarantee that what I have to say will be profound but it's big in my head.
Being separated is not fun but I will say this. There's strange freedom in not having H around and it has taken me a while to figure that out. I have removed ALL clutter from the counters in the kitchen. There are NEVER dirty dishes in the sink.
On a whim I bought houseplants today because we haven't had any since before D was born. I like them. I mean, I'm not green thumb gardener but I like live things in a room plus the ones I bought help clean the air and since the A/C is always on, it's nice to have some freshness in the room.
The manager at the nursery was very flirtatious and gave me two plants for free (hey, it pays to be female some times). I don't wear a ring so when I gave him my membership card and my H's name came up on the computer I said, "oh that's my husband" he said, "Oh man! You're married?! You don't wear a ring!" I just smiled. Then as he was loading my car with my purchases he talked about his wife. WHAT!? You have a wife?! What is wrong with these people?! Ugh!
Anyway, planted my plants, rearranged some things, poured a glass of wine and here I sit. Life isn't bad. Granted, I'm the one who lives in the big house while H is in his apartment but he chose that, right?
My point is, I've read 1,000 pages this week about marriage and relationships and shame and fear and trust, and studies and research and I'm taking the night OFF from working on ME and my semi-marriage.
And apparently Miguel thinks I'm a cutie. LOL
ganb8te,
It's frustrating to not have known these books exist or known they were so full of wisdom but I personally believe I was in absolutely no state to read these books without overwhelming resentment over having to do all the work. I was SO hung up on that and sometimes even now find myself frustrated by that fact.
It's one thing to realize our past faults but quite another to be ruled and defined by them. I choose to see them for what they were and add more value to my efforts to change, be more aware, empathize and stop shaming. Looking forward is all we can do.
The past is the past. That doesn't mean we can't be genuinely sorry for it and recognize our contribution to the pain in our spouse and ourselves but we can't change what was. We can only change how we handle ourselves in the future.
We can do that, ganb8te. We really can.
I totally empathize with your frustrations. I would literally give my right leg to have read and believed all of these books 4 years ago, or even 1 year ago. I don't think I'd be in this spot if I had. BUT I also don't think I would have really gained anything from them if someone had forced me to read them. I thought I was the perfect husband. It took this hard dose of reality to show me that that was definitely not the case.
Quick question - Do you all think HTIYMWTAI is intended exclusively for women? I've never read it, but the summaries and reviews seem to be how to get through to men. Even if it is, I'm sure I could learn from it. Thoughts?
It is likely written mostly for women because we're usually the ones who are the relationship temperature takers. I've read that in a few books actually.
I don't think that means you shouldn't read it. I'd love to know if it rings true for men. Not that you should read it just for me, it could be very insightful for you. I'm not at that part yet but there are chapters directly written for men (one is entitled: The Worst Thing A Man Does To A Woman). For the cost of a paperback book, I'd read ALL of them if they helped at all. That's just me though.
I'm thinking the same thing. Even a review of it opened my eyes a little:
There are four ways to connect with a man:touch, activity, sex, routines.
The four things that my W neglected with me when I fell out of love with her 4 years ago (I fell back in love in a big way starting about a year ago, mainly because she started fulfilling those needs). I've read about those in other books since BD (5LL, HNHN, a couple others), but it still sinks in when I hear it put a slightly different way.
I'll probably pick it up. But I just cracked open a new book, based on something someone said here (can't remember the user).
Stand Up Comedy by Judy Carter. Time to read something light-hearted for a change
Ugh! H and D just stopped by to pick up some of her meds for the rest of the weekend.
I had the house looking gorgeous, drinking a glass of wine, music on, etc...
The second I see D, I start to tear up and she RUNS into my arms saying how much she misses me and loves me and hates this separation. Then she asks H if she can spend the night here rather than at his apartment. At first I didn't know how to respond. H just looked hurt and looked at me. I told her that this is what we'd worked out and she needed to go back to dad's place. I told her I would pick her up from school on Monday.
She was so upset. H left the room for a bit and I talked to her heart to heart. She said she really wished she could just sleep in the street away from both of us because then we'd both not have her until we got back together. Whoa.
I had to convince her to go back with him and we agreed to meet for breakfast in the morning. Sheesh. This is hard.
I said that to her. That it was hard on all of us but that we were strong and were handling it the best we could.
She said, "It's not as hard on you two as it is on me and that's not right. This isn't how it's supposed to be! What were you fighting about that you guys decided to separate in the first place? I mean, this is not fair!"
Ugh. My heart fell right out of my chest and directly onto the floor at that moment.
And now I'm eating my feelings with a bag of kettle corn in my lap.
I hate this because she hates it.
So, so sorry Ss. I only have a 2 yr old so I don't have those issues. Have you found any users here who have similar child sitches from which you can learn and take comfort?
In the meantime, enjoy the bonus breakfast and squeeze her extra hard after school Monday
Kids really can push the emotional buttons.
The only thing I can think to say that might help is that in general kids are pretty resilient and as long as they know you still love them, that you are always there for them and that its not their fault then they will be OK.
Hi, Ss,
Sorry your D had a rough time tonight ....
I think the breakfast plan was a great idea!
.
She's reacting to these changes, and the unknowns are scary. Things to reassure her of (not during pick-up, but anytime) that helped my kids feel more secure:
1. That you will always be there for her (you'll never leave her, cover that abandonment fear) and even though you're S, SHE is taken care of ALWAYS
2. NONE of this S was her fault
3. BOTH parents will always love her
THIS WAS BIG FOR ME:
They look to us closer than we realize. If she senses tension or sadness from the parent she's leaving that night (not at all suggesting you had any), she will likely be a bit clingier. If both parents are upbeat and positive about the exchange, it helps A LOT in the security department. (Not perfect, but definitely helps)
Also, keeping "transitions" (or hand-offs) quick, and don't linger and feed into the thoughts of "missing" you, which will cue the clinginess. It will get better over time. The difficulty is the guilt....more on the parent side. Kids are usually over it when they get in the car. Sad, but true.
Just my .02.
Ss06, I was around 6/7 when my parents split up briefly. I've written about it on here before, but my mom was a WAS due to a PA. They reconciled after about 6 months and are still together now. I do remember being extremely emotional about the separation.. every night when someone tucked me in, and the other one walked in, I'd burst into tears. But that's ALL I remember.. and it doesn't have any bearing on me anymore.. so she WILL be okay.
I don't know what they used to say to me back then, but I do know that it took years for me to figure out who was at fault (I didn't figure that out until my teens) so they obviously were pretty good at not putting the blame on one another.. I think you're doing a great job to make sure your daughter will feel the same..
Oh wow SS. I feel for you, but it sounds like you're doing a really great job.
I'm not looking forward to having the 'transition conversation' with our kids. W and I had just finished our latest 'where are we going' conversation yesterday when S12 came in and asked if we were having anothe of our 'long talks'. I wasn't aware he knew anything about any conversations we gave had: we always make sure they're not around. There must be tension in the air and different attitudes they can sense though.
I will definitely check out that book - and HNHN which I also discovered yesterday.
Keep up the good work. (Not so) Old Dog xx
Oh Ss, that sounds extremely rough. I don't know how I could possibly manage this whole debacle if we had children. You sound like you are being really strong and great mother. That counts for a lot in my book.
Ss, I know that was hard but I've said it before and I'll say it again: it is so much easier to parent a child who shares her feelings openly than one who plays them close to the chest. Look at how you were able to adjust for her comfort and what that showed her. Imagine if she'd had those feelings and you hadn't known. And be proud for being the mom of a child -- especially a difficult child -- who is so trusting and open that she can tell you exactly how she's hurting and give you the means to help her cope. Well done.
I'm impressed by your D and her ability to express her emotions. NOt to mention her problem solving skills. Did you catch that she wanted to punish both you and H?
Keep her talking and sharing. Don't let your discomfort with how she's feeling tempt you into making it all better for her. You certainly did a beautiful job in this instance.
You have a great opportunity here.
It's too bad that H wasn't in the room with you guys so he could have heard D say it to you. That would have been a good reality check for him. Ugh!
Glad to hear that you connected with D and validated her feelings. Good job, S!
Great perspective, labug. Man you guys are awesome
I'm impressed by your D and her ability to express her emotions. NOt to mention her problem solving skills. Did you catch that she wanted to punish both you and H?
Keep her talking and sharing. Don't let your discomfort with how she's feeling tempt you into making it all better for her. You certainly did a beautiful job in this instance.
You have a great opportunity here.
Yes, Maybell, I absolutely did notice she wants to punish both of us. It's interesting because she is very fair in her trying to care for both of our feelings and fair in her efforts to punish us.
Labug, I am VERY grateful that she's verbally communicative of her feelings. I am also very grateful that her vocabulary is so strong because she's very precise with her words.
I notice that H, whenever D talks about the separation and how she's afraid we'll get a divorce, he always just says, "but you know we love you very much, right?" As if that's her point. He's not so aware of the level of her conversation skills and doesn't quite understand fully that she doesn't feel unloved, she simply doesn't want us separated.
I think he read something that said to reassure the kids that you love them while going through this process. He's always doing that when she talks about the separation. Now she brings up the separation and the first thing she says is, "I know you love me, dad, I get that, I just want you two to work it out!"
It makes me laugh inside because he's addressing what he THINKS is the problem but he's not listening to her. A very familiar predicament.
Generally men get far less in the way of good modeling, mentoring of R skills than women. He's trying and not going to the "Please don't feel bad, I'll buy you a pony if you smile" mode of dealing with emotions.
Have you mentioned to him that you see he's working on this? Dealing with the emotional world of a 7yo girl could be very foreign to a man.
Labug, wow. Seems so simple, yet often so hard to notice oor acknowledge the small positives.
Ss, great job dealing with your D. They are impacted by this, for sure, but we can make it as minimal as possible through our actions and reactions.
Have you mentioned to him that you see he's working on this? Dealing with the emotional world of a 7yo girl could be very foreign to a man.
No, I hadn't even thought to. What a great opportunity, Maybell. I will absolutely verbally pat him on the back for this. It's not easy stuff, that's for sure! Thank you for helping me see the little stuff. I am definitely macro-focused right now.
Are Maybell and I morphing into the same persona?
She may not like that.
SS, I dont have a D. I have 2 S. I will tell you from a mans point of view that what your H is saying to your D seems to be a good thing. I know I may get 2x4 for this, but could you help him see what she is trying to say? Maybe help him develop a better way to talk with her. In my opinion its about the kids and making it easier for them.
Wow. When I read what your daughter said, I nearly cried myself!
I count myself very lucky that my situation has not reached the point of having to tell our 7-year-old son that same thing.
Last night H texted me out of the blue which is very rare.
H: Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I had a very long convo with D about separation/divorce. She brought it up.
Me: She's been bringing it up lately with me a lot, too.
H: Yeah, I figured. I explained that I understand how difficult it must be, but it involves very adult things that she wouldn't understand at the moment.
Her primary concern seems to be about the separate living spaces. I gave her many examples of parents living in separate places, sometimes entire states (like your dad and my dad, etc) Anyway, I figured I should keep you informed of it.
Me: Thank you. I'm thinking that our situation isn't job related like your dad adn my dad and she should know that we're not separated because of work. Wdyt?
H: Sure. I'm indifferent. The end result is the same. We also discussed divorced/remarried parents at her school. Please don't take "I'm indifferent" out of context. I simply don't think it's a particularly important detail.
M: I sort of do.
H: Ok. No problem.
M: I feel it's a distinction our smart child could probably make on her own and don't want to give her the impression that it's perfectly normal for parents to live in separate homes, just like your dad and my dad did for work, you know?
H: Ok. I understand. You and I disagree about this but there really isn't anything I can do about it.
At the risk of being combative, I don't think it's in our daughter's best interest to actively try to make her feel 'different' or alienated from others.
I feel like the healthy alternative is to be transparent regarding how common it is for parents to not live in the same place all the time, regardless of reasons (even though separation and divorce are extremely common). But again, I need to articulate that I'm not making a demand of any kind. Simply reaffirming what I believe to be healthy.
Me: I definitely see where you are coming from. I appreciate you explaining it to me so thoroughly and calmly. I'm pretty sure I agree with you but I need to think it over a little. Is that ok?
H: Of course. Thank you for acknowledging my position and treating it as valid.
---two hours later---
Me: It is valid and valuable. I truly appreciate you explaining it to me and giving me the space to let it sink in and permeate. That time has allowed me to see that making the distinction of WHY adults live separately isn't crucial right now, so I think you're right.
I hope, with time and practice, it won't take me so long to think things like that over but I appreciate you giving me whatever space I needed to do that.
----- end convo----
And then I cried because it was HARD. I wanted to argue and make him NOT belittle our separation by calling it "common" to our D. He is calling it "common" and I immediately assume that means "good" or "fine". I had to turn off my mind reading that told me he WANTS what's common (separation and divorce). I had to remind myself that this isn't about ME, this is about a conversation with our wise-beyond-her-years D. It hurt but I took time away, thought about my goal, rephrased and rephrased again. Chose to validate, affirm, appreciate and protect.
Will convos like that always be that hard? How do you think I did?
I'm still feeling the hurt from the convo hours later. All of this connection to my own feelings has made me MUCH more sensitive than I used to be. I like feeling connected to my feelings instead of feeling like a robot but then I hurt more. OUCH.
could you help him see what she is trying to say? Maybe help him develop a better way to talk with her. In my opinion its about the kids and making it easier for them.
Only if he asks. Help is help only when it's asked for no matter how well-meant, otherwise it can be seen as meddling of belittling.
In validating, say something that puts you both in the same boat. "H, I struggle with knowing how to answer D sometimes. It seems you're getting a handle on it." But only if the situation arises.
Are Maybell and I morphing into the same persona?
She may not like that.
I'm so sorry, labug! LOL. I meant Labug in that. I'm pre-coffee and cannot be held responsible for my references to people, thoughts or ideas. Give me 20 and I'll be better.
Ss,
I think the fact that you validated, and asked for time to process were awesome! I remember that came up for you recently... and you said you were going to work on hitting pause before you respond. I also like how you noticed yourself mind reading and chose to take his words at face value...and also that you didn't make this conversation into "so, this is why we shouldn't get divorced!"
Well done, grasshopper!
Will convos like that always be that hard? How do you think I did?
No, it won't always be that difficult but it takes time and practice. When you feel whatever that feeling is that goes along with "I need to be right" it's always a good idea to say, "I need to take some time to think about what you've said. Let's talk again tomorrow." Don't drop it, always say when you want to revisit. That way the other person knows they're not getting the brush-off.
You did a great job with that!
A parenting book that helped me a lot also said that when you have the "I need to be right" feeling, you should also question the value you're attached to that informs that feeling. Sometimes there are back stories to it that have nothing to do with the person you're struggling with. Understanding your underlying motivations can help with letting go of that need to be right.
Sometimes there are back stories to it that have nothing to do with the person you're struggling with. Understanding your underlying motivations can help with letting go of that need to be right.
I absolutely recognized that there was a back story which is precisely why I asked for a time out.
I KNEW that I was coloring my opinion about what he told D with what I wanted him to actually think and feel so I wanted him to tell her that separation and divorce are horrible and to have hope because mom and dad will be back together soon. Sounds silly when I type it all out but that's what I wanted.
When he was logical and realistic, it shattered my fantasy and I want to tell D my fantasy because that's sure to happen, right?
I think that's why it was hard. I needed to step back and think about this NOT being about our relationship but about what D can handle hearing right before bedtime.
I'm grateful he handled it the way he did and I'm grateful I handled it the way I did.
That seriously could have been hugely ugly and so full of resentment and disdain and "you nevers" and "I always".
I'm doing it. It's slow and it's HARD but I'm doing it.
Tonight's yoga theme was:
"It's not others who must change, but you."
- Swami Prajnanpad
I'm hearing this or similar all over the place. The universe is SCREAMING at me to get this into my head.
H told me today that he might be out of town for a bit in very early November. I asked if it was for work (which would be rare). He said, "No, I think I'm going to go to New York and see the leaves."
Huh. Ok. On one hand I think it's great! We never get to see REAL fall color living here so what a great thing to do (though of course I wish we could go with him).
On the other hand I think, oh isn't that nice. You're going to go spend thousands of dollars to see fall color and "meditate". Awesome.
I'm jealous, I guess. Plus, isn't November 1 a little late for fall color in New York? Will there be any leaves left? Anyway, I'm trying to focus on the positive and shut the negative firmly out of my head.
blah.
Its ok about his trip ss. Grab some of your girlfriends and take a trip of your own. I recommend Key West last weekend of October. FantasyFest. Look it up. Talk about an awesome time in which you will NOT think about your H!!
Just catching up Ss. I am really impressed by your text conversation - you handled yourself so well. Actually I think you both did. It's a good thing that your H can say to you "I understand…you and I disagree…at the risk of being combative here's my POV etc."
You've been critical of your communication skills in the past but this looks like a SUPER health exchange to me. You contributed to that in a BIG way.
I recommend Key West last weekend of October. FantasyFest. Look it up. Talk about an awesome time in which you will NOT think about your H!!
Shoot, after Fantasy Fest, you won't even remember you HAVE a H!
I'm not really at a place where i can take a trip without feeling like everything I see and do I'd want to share with H and D.
For some reason I am NOT in a good place today. I was fine this morning. I came home and took a 10 minute nap and woke up sad, crying, with zero hope, a bit angry, frustrated and depressed.
I am working SO hard on changing me. On being someone only a fool would leave and yet he's still gone. I know last time he and I talked about it he said something like 6+ months and that seemed like forever but I could cope with just having an approximate time line. It has been like 2 weeks since that conversation and suddenly I'm impatient.
Everything I'm reading talks about seeing things from your partner's perspective, binocular vision so to speak. I'm sure this separation isn't fun for H. Granted, he does get to place blame on me for everything which is a luxury I don't have. I wonder what it's like to leave a marriage under the guise of having been "the good one" in the marriage.
I am doing all I can right now to see this separation as GOOD. As an opportunity to make these changes with good space and time and I'm grateful that the weather is good and D is doing GREAT in school and in general and our health is good and then WHAMO! I get impatient, sad, frustrated, heavy feeling and helpless/hopeless.
I'm not used to feeling so emotional. I never used to cry and now I cry in yoga classes and at 2:30 pm on a Tuesday.
I am scared. I am scared of so many things I'm afraid of how long my list of things I'm scared of is.
I have applied for 32 jobs. That's right, 32 resumes have gone out and yet I have only heard that I am overqualified from 4 and then from ONE company who discriminated against me because i have a child and because of where I live.
I sucked it up and applied at Banana Republic. Yep. The manager has been asking me for years to work there. Nothing against mall retail but it's not my thing. It offers benefits though and that's what I'm looking for. Here I am at 37 years old having once made close to 6 figures before, heading into an interview on Friday for Banana Republic.
I'm losing hope. Who am I? Reading all these books and making all these changes in my perspective, personality, approach, outlook, way of thinking is helpful sometimes but right now I can only think of it as wishful thinking because I'm not going to get to USE any of it if HE DECIDES I'm not worth it.
I'm tempted to write him a letter. But I won't. It'd be pursuing and I'd likely resort to begging which is just not attractive.
What happened to me?
Chin up, SS06, you're just having a bad day. We all do at some point. You will have better days. Even though Banana Republic may not be your first choice, it's nice to be wanted, and just think of how fabulous you'll look while GALing in your new wardrobe.
Also, be patient. I was feeling the same way you are a few days ago. It was all I could do not to reach out to my H to spend time together as a family. But I didn't. And you know what? He called the next day and invited me to dinner as a family.
Then, at the dinner? He just talked about himself the whole time anyway, and I was able to feel that I would be fine with or without him (esp. since he's so self-absorbed).
Bottom line: He's not the H you knew. You may get a chance to know this new guy, maybe not. Hang in there!
Hi Ss! What Ahoy said!
You have been doing great! As you said you have been really looking into yourself and seeing how you can improve. That takes a lot of courage.
And yes, maybe it is true that your H will not come back and want to work on things. That is a possibility. But it is also possible that he will. And tomorrow or on a better day you will see that hopeful chance and feel positive and happy. Today is just a hard day.
I completely hear you on the Banana Republic job. It may seem a bit demeaning to take a step backward but hey, it's a job! And indeed think of all the cute things you will get to wear for a big discount. I wouldn't mind having that discount! And it also doesn't have to be forever, but at least you will have benefits and money coming in while you continue your search for another job. You never know, perhaps a customer will come in, you'll have a charming chat and she'll offer you a more enticing position at her company. Banana Republic is a great place to buy work clothes after all!
I realize it probably does not help to hear this but we can all relate to how you are feeling. The past few days I have been down, despite good things in my life and my GAL activities. Tears suddenly began rolling down my cheeks while walking down the street, although I haven't been crying at all for several weeks. I think this is just part of the healing process, somewhat like dreaming is a way for your brain to process the activities of the previous day. We have to go through these emotional times to process what has happened to us. Tomorrow or the next day we will feel better again. I feel better today for no apparent reason, I felt like the sun shone on me again. But I realize I'll probably feel down again for no reason and I won't be able to see that it too will pass. But it will. So our own rollercoaster continues.
Don't worry Ss, things will pick up again soon. Just keep moving forward with strength and grace.
Hugs, Lisa
This is the storm before the new calm.
Or I can put it in less appealing terms. You have been eating the healthiest, most amazing feast ever, and your body has been digesting it and using it to fuel you on your marathon and moving you forward, forward, forward.
Now you've stopped for a potty break.
Are you smiling???
When you finish with your pit stop, you're going to start back on your marathon again, getting stronger, getting faster, giving pep talks to fellow runners,
and fueling again.
And then eventually you'll need another pit stop.
And the awesome thing about working at Banana Republic is that you won't be stuck at home to cry at 2:30 on a Tuesday because you'll be meeting customers in your beautiful make up, looking awesome, making things happen.
And just because you're working Banana Republic for the time being doesn't mean you'll be working there forever. This is interim. Just like where you are with your H. (six months isn't as long as it feels)
Today, mall retail, tomorrow, THE WORLD!!
I really appreciate all of the support and arms holding me up. I really feel like I can't hold myself up on my own, I am leaning on everyone and everything I can right now. I just can't stand up on my own.
I had a horrible evening. Tuesdays are so busy with extracurriculars for D and we get home re
Lean away. We all need it in turn.
Hi, Ss,
I'm sorry you're having a bad day. I had a very low weekend....last couple of weeks, actually. Same as you.
Please hop over to my thread in MLC, and if you have a chance, peek at what uRworthy writes. I think it may help you, too. She gets it. Ss, you and I have A LOT in common.....
We are struggling through the same chit. Hang in there. We can do this.
((((Hugs))))
my most recent post above was MUUUUCH longer but apparently was cut off by the board for whatever reason. Oh well. I'm sick of hearing my self talk and apparently the board gods are, too. LOL
Shining, I'm off to check it out. Thank you!
Remember sometimes peeling those layers brings tears along with movement to another level. There's no growth without a little pain.
You say everything in your life is uncertain and that's true for all of us, really.
It's completely OK to have a crappy day, cry all you want. This too shall pass.
Stay strong SS.. I'm with you on the bad and good days.. I have had a few of both lately, but I'm feeling the good outweighing the bad.. GL with the new job too!!..
I'm losing hope. Who am I? Reading all these books and making all these changes in my perspective, personality, approach, outlook, way of thinking is helpful sometimes but right now I can only think of it as wishful thinking because I'm not going to get to USE any of it if HE DECIDES I'm not worth it.
Ss, I know your in a difficult place right now. This is really tough, no doubt about it. But tomorrow is a new day and you never know what is around the corner. One thing I do know, is that all the reading and the changes we are making to our thinking DO MATTER. This is as much our journey as it is our WAHs. No one can take this new learning away from us, not even our WAHs. We will use it; heck I think we already are using it. (I recall complimenting you on an awesome text exchange just the other day).
SS,
I'm sorry you are having a difficult time. I did want to chime in on the job. While it may not be your dream job at BR, it could be a nice confidence booster and you never know who you may meet for future opportunities during this time. Always keep your eyes open-you never know when opportunity knocks :-)
I can't remember if you spoke of this so I apologize if I'm being repetitive. Is your h covering expenses for 2 households?
Hang in there. You are doing just fine!
Sorry to see you are in a bad place right now.
Remember : life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it! You will get through this, there are better days ahead.
Thank you all for the encouragement and support. Man do I need it. Today feels better but I'm being gentle with myself.
I am NOT good at being uncomfortable. I squirm and fight it like crazy. Just when I think I'm ok, my mind goes down some weird thinking lines and BAM! I'm squirming again.
I wish I could take the yogic approach and "observe without judgement" but no, I want to kick that discomfort square in the nads.
A lot of this is hitting major triggers with me. I was pulled out of my home by DCS at age 16 with nothing but the clothes on my back, literally. I became a ward of the court and lived in foster care until I graduated high school. It was only two years but I was hungry (there were bugs in the food at the group home and simply not enough food), emotionally and physically exhausted (I was paying my own private school tuition, too), dealing with the guilt of having left my little brother at home with my abusive mother and neglectful father who then packed up and moved across the country leaving me, at age 16, alone in California.
Now I feel like my home is being ripped out from under me AGAIN. Not my actual house but my family, our traditions, our togetherness, our laughter and love...
It's triggering a lot of ugly stuff.
I can't remember if you spoke of this so I apologize if I'm being repetitive. Is your h covering expenses for 2 households?
He is, yes. It's not a problem financially but it's also not exactly how we envisioned spending our money either.
We pay out the nose for insurance (he is self employed so we have to buy our own and it's terrible despite the HUGE price tag). I want to contribute at least insurance to the family, hence the BR job. Good benefits if nothing else.
Thank you all for the encouragement and support. Man do I need it. Today feels better but I'm being gentle with myself.
I am NOT good at being uncomfortable. I squirm and fight it like crazy. Just when I think I'm ok, my mind goes down some weird thinking lines and BAM! I'm squirming again.
I wish I could take the yogic approach and "observe without judgement" but no, I want to kick that discomfort square in the nads.
A lot of this is hitting major triggers with me. I was pulled out of my home by DCS at age 16 with nothing but the clothes on my back, literally. I became a ward of the court and lived in foster care until I graduated high school. It was only two years but I was hungry (there were bugs in the food at the group home and simply not enough food), emotionally and physically exhausted (I was paying my own private school tuition, too), dealing with the guilt of having left my little brother at home with my abusive mother and neglectful father who then packed up and moved across the country leaving me, at age 16, alone in California.
Now I feel like my home is being ripped out from under me AGAIN. Not my actual house but my family, our traditions, our togetherness, our laughter and love...
It's triggering a lot of ugly stuff.
((( )))Darlin' this explains sooo much.
You can become OK with the discomfort, it's work but it's so worth it.
May you find peace.
I want to add that I know we're all more than the sum of our parts and our past doesn't have to define our future.
Look how far you've come! You are a success story.
labug,
You're right, I am absolutely more than the sum of my parts. It still hurts though. Like a raw, barely healed scab. It hurts so much.
Ss
Totally get the feeling ... of course losing the family/M is hard .. but its even harder when it brings up the past issues we all stuffed down ( I too was a foster kid and grew up with my father constantly working out of the state), I too have had to constantly check myself from making it all about the W walking and projecting those past issues into the sitch. Its difficult and something I am working on.
You are a trooper, you will get past this
Thank you Caliguy.
A fellow foster kid. A rare thing to have in common, huh?
Well, we made it though that, we can make it though this, right? It's still hard to not relate those same feelings of loss of family to the feelings rearing their ugly head now.
Because it seems I'm on the verge of tears at almost every moment, I just called two "marriage friendly therapists" to see if I can get an appointment for IC. I left messages for both and cried the whole time. Then I cried when I got off the phone. And now i'm crying as I type this.
I am just NOT handling all of this well despite my desire to and knowledge that I CAN get through it.
Just got a call from one therapist and have an appointment for Monday at 1. Oh please let this be helpful and productive.
My goodness Ss, that's some story. I wish we could do more for you ... like a proper hug.
You will bounce back though and I know you know that. I doesn't make it any easier I know. I had a couple of bad weeks recently as you know and now I feel
I can cope again.
You will be able to do the same. Have you got any local friends to lean on?
(Not so) Old Dog xx
Too many 'knows' in that post, but never mind.
What about playing some loud music? You may have to make yourself, but do it.
Sometimes when I hear about these things I wish there were some kind of DB convention so we could all group hug and high five.
Ss stands for Super Strong. Sure Survivor.
DB/DR convention? Too much validating going on in that room for anyone to get his/her point across. (That was a joke, folks. Wonka/labug put me on a humor explainer probation for good reason.)
SS06 - take a walk, wash your dog, take the ice bucket challenge (a few weeks late!) or ANYTHING.
Everyone here has been amazing to me for several days. I am here for you, too. (((((((HHHUUUUGGGGSSS))))))))
Ss,
Your candor and ability to self-reflect, and your intelligence and wit show that you have great resilience. I wish we could offer hugs in person. And I'm sorry you are going through this.
Ss stands for Super Strong. Sure Survivor.
It actually stands for "still standing" which is my theme song (I'm Still Standin' by Elton John). Extraordinary Machine by Fiona Apple is another theme song of mine.
It's funny, having gone through all that crap as a child doesn't really prepare me any more for going through it all now.
I lovingly accept and strongly reciprocate all of the hugs and desire for the in-person real thing.
I think a DB/DR convention would be a whole lot of fun. Or at least some kind of reunion meet up. There'd be a whole lot of validating going on, just as you say Shakspr, but the activities list would be awesome because we're all GAL pros!!!
Your support means everything to me Claire, maybell, Lisa, Pilot, Shining, Shakspr, Old Dogg, labug, and everyone else who hears the cry of a fellow DB and comes running with hugs.
I desperately need them today.
I forced myself to plant some plants (not something I get a lot of joy out of but I love the end result) and I do feel better.
I made plans to go to a hot vinyasa yoga class tonight with GREAT music (imagine doing yoga to September by Earth Wind and Fire!) so that will definitely lift me up a bit. I wore a heart rate monitor in that class last week and I burned 640 calories in one class.
Off to chug a protein shake that I'll burn off in the first 20 minutes of that class. YAY!
I know all this pain and struggle is creating something beautiful but it sure hurts to get there. Makes me wonder if plants hurt while they flower or if a caterpillar hurts while in its chrysalis.
"the activities list would be awesome because we're all GAL pros!!!"
I love this! I bet it would be a blast.
Hi Card & NewLeaf! Thanks for stopping by!
Today is better. Feeling good physically and better emotionally.
Yoga. Yoga is my antidepressant, life balancer, emotional regulator, perspective provider and smile giver. Yoga and this board. What would I do without you all?
I'm rethinking this Banana Republic job. We are not desperate for me to get insurance for the family. We are doing ok right now. I think I'm going to rework my resume, reevaluate my application methods and work harder at getting a job that isn't mall retail just to get a job.
I wanted desperately to talk about all this with H but it could be seen as temperature taking because it's more about "what will happen in the future" and I vowed not to do that anymore.
It's interesting how I want to lean heavily on him instead of empowering myself to make a decision in my own best interest. Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
Anyway, hopefully I'm in the early stages of another up swing. I know I have no more tears left so up is the only way right now.
Great to hear you are feeling better Ss! Up and down, up and down - what fun!
I know what you mean about wanting to check in but don't fret, when he is ready you will hear from your H. Try to keep on with your 180s and GALing and taking care of yourself and he will eventually want to check in with YOU!
Go with your gut on the BR job. It will probably mean time away from your D7 and other personal growth activities, as well as job hunting so if you aren't sure and it isn't absolutely needed just shelve it for now. I have faith that something will present itself soon. Job hunting can be a b!tch sometimes!
Big hugs and hope you keep feeling better!
Lisa
I'm rethinking this Banana Republic job. We are not desperate for me to get insurance for the family. We are doing ok right now. I think I'm going to rework my resume, reevaluate my application methods and work harder at getting a job that isn't mall retail just to get a job.
Hey Ss!
So glad you are feeling a little better. I meant to post the other day when you mentioned your discouraging job search. I wanted to share this with you- when I moved back to California in 2012 - I applied for 167 jobs. Out of all those applications, I only scored 2 face to face interviews and 2 phone interviews with a recruiter, and I have excellent qualifications in several different industries with a stable 20 year job history, and had my resume professionally touched up. I did end up in a good job but there was some dumb luck to it. It was a position that I was over qualified for, but my boss liked me in the interview so much - she talked HR into bumping it up into a higher classification.
My point with all of this, is that much like your DBing efforts, this could very well be a marathon. As long as your finances permit, I would certainly take your time and look for job that really fits your career plans and allows you quality time with your D. As someone who has done a lot of hiring, I can tell you that sometimes job candidates have a hard time digging their way back up from a job that they didn't really want to take in the first place.
That being said, if you do find yourself in a place where you
really need that health insurance - may I suggest you take a look at Starbucks? Unless times have changed, they provide full benefits for anyone who works 20 hours a week, and it can be a great place to network and is pretty low stress.
I'm not going to lie - even though the economy has improved, its still a pain in the a** time to be looking for a job, but you
will find what you need and want eventually!
Looking forward to continued reading about the job hunt!
raliced,
Oh thank you so much for chiming in! I appreciate you sharing your story. I've noticed that looking for jobs online means there are thousands of applicants and while my resume is awesome and my experience extensive, I'm still 1 in thousands. That's a tough pill to swallow but, like you said, marathon. >sigh<
About 12 years ago I used to work at Starbucks. I have considered applying, yes. Just because it really IS a great company to work for, the health insurance for part time work is great, too (which is NOT the case at Banana). I think I can talk to H without it being a temperature taking discussion about where he feels we are as far as health insurance.
As someone who has done a lot of hiring, I can tell you that sometimes job candidates have a hard time digging their way back up from a job that they didn't really want to take in the first place.
THIS is a big concern for me. Working to support your family through any means necessary isn't viewed through the right lens when prospective employers look at resumes for some reason. It's frustrating.
I wanted desperately to talk about all this with H but it could be seen as temperature taking because it's more about "what will happen in the future" and I vowed not to do that anymore.
It's interesting how I want to lean heavily on him instead of empowering myself to make a decision in my own best interest. Fascinating. Wonder why that is.
Anyway, hopefully I'm in the early stages of another up swing. I know I have no more tears left so up is the only way right now.
Awesome that you identified discussing this with WAH as "temp checking", among other things. That, by itself, is huge progress! You are killing it. Down swings like you had earlier this week are totally natural, so don't think it was a sign that you backslid or are doing something wrong.
Also, facing this on your own is a huge 180. Great idea not to automatically rely on him. Not to mention it would violate one of Sandi's rules (don't make your convos with WAS about yourself).
Checkout fiverr.com. It's an interesting site. People sell their talents for $5. There are some people on there that will review resumes or cover letters for $5. Might be good to get some fresh perspective since you've been at it for a while now.
Checkout fiverr.com. It's an interesting site. People sell their talents for $5. There are some people on there that will review resumes or cover letters for $5. Might be good to get some fresh perspective since you've been at it for a while now.
thanks Card. will do. I applied for 8 more jobs today. This is just getting silly.
I've never been in your sitch as far as looking for work without already having a job (or still in school). It has to be hard. Have you considered volunteering for something close to your heart, maybe 20 hours per week, until you get a job? im not totally tuned in to the mind of Ss. But there would be a lot of positives for you and the need, whatever it is. Not to mention that the more you are involved with organized activities, the more chances you'll have to network with people. Who knows, you might meet an employer! My friend took a waiter position while we were in school to network, and he ended up getting a dream job at Boeing because of it (and also because he's brilliant). I would only do it BECAUSE you want to serve a need, but I just wanted to mention another potential benefit. Keep going, Ss!
Not to mention that the more you are involved with organized activities, the more chances you'll have to network with people. Who knows, you might meet an employer! My friend took a waiter position while we were in school to network, and he ended up getting a dream job at Boeing because of it (and also because he's brilliant).
I once hired a girl who was a waitress at my favorite restaurant. She was finishing a degree and I had an opening. She was a great hire. You never know who you'll meet. Good luck!
Well, had my interview at Banana. Went great. Easy peasy. This store doesn't have enough hours for me to work enough to get benefits so it's not really worth the effort since that's 99% of what i'm looking for.
I guess I could just do it to make a tiny bit of money and connect with people though out the day. Have a reason to look better than wearing a sundress and flip flops all day every day. I just don't know.
D has her karate belt test tomorrow and she is super excited. It's a big deal as she had to be invited (and you're not allowed to ask or insinuate that you want to test). It's a 3-4 hour test. I'm washing her Gi right now because I have to press it (!!!). She has to pass uniform inspection before she can begin the test and this also means clipped/filed nails, clean face and hair, the inseam of her pants can't be shorter than her ankle or longer than to top of her heel. Jeez. She's 7.
Anyway, she was talking to H on the phone last night and she asked if he'd be available to celebrate her new belt on Saturday evening after her belt test. He said, "Oh, I'll be out of town, maybe we can do it another night".
Out of town? News to me. Guess I'm not privy to that kind of stuff anymore.
So, this is my life. Banana Republic and having no idea where my H is. Lovely.
Life is a bowl of bananas!!
Is there at least an employee discount? :P
Is there at least an employee discount? :P
A huge one. Like 50% off and 40% off at Gap and Old Navy. Nuts.
So, I'm feeling like I want to text H something light hearted, fun, flirty... but it's not a good idea. I know it's not. He's probably out of town having a blast with friends (hopefully not 1 friend who happens to be female). This would not be a good time to do that. In fact, it's more than pursuing... it's unintelligent.
Right? Not a good idea? He always wanted *pictures*. Now's not the right time for that, huh?
Hi Ss, it's bee a while since I've written but I've sti been following. You're doing great. Keep at it.
I'm putting this here because the house is nuts and noisy right now and I can't read through it and pay it the attention it deserves.
The star is inside of YOU
LOL Ss!! *pictures* :P
No now is not the time but yes I have been wondering the same type of thing. As you just commented on my thread, regaining the spark and flirtiness is key in our situations I think.
Yes we need to work on repairing the serious problems in our relationships and healing the damage from arguing, affairs, and what have you. But in the end of the day we are not going to get back together if there is no romantic and sexual attraction.
Now I know you are an attractive lady. And I know your H knows it too. But seeing that you are attractive and having that passion for you are two different things.
So how do we work on that? Most relationship advice geared toward getting someone to feel passionate says be mysterious and distant - run and he will chase. OK, I've been great at that! But so far it hasn't seemed to make him lust after me. It is making him interested in spending time together and talking so at least that is a first step. So maybe that is the answer?
Perhaps we need to do something a little different to make them see us in a flirty sexy way. Maybe it's a new perfume, a hot dress, a new hairstyle and a GAL attitude. Done and done but so far little effect other than him commenting "you look good", but maybe that is a first step.
Long story short, I'm wondering if maybe something like *pictures* would be a good idea at the right moment. It would certainly be shocking! It would definitely have to be done in the right way so as not to be pursuing, and at the right time as well. What about instead of photos, saying something light and flirty that would remind him of a sexy time the two of you shared? Well, I don't know, but it's something to ponder for later.
Big hugs to you Ss!
Lisa
I'm putting this here because the house is nuts and noisy right now and I can't read through it and pay it the attention it deserves.
The star is inside of YOU Oh wow. Required reading for everyone. Thanks for finding and linking to it Ss.
When I read 'Feel the fear and do it anyway' recently, I was shocked by just how many things I was fearful of.
I was unable to attend a FTFADIA workshop yesterday as it was full, but I'll be looking out for the next one, and remember everyone ...
Whatever life throws at you, I can handle it.(Not so) Old Dog xx
I'm not sure what it is but last night and today I've just had this feeling in the pit of my stomach that H has decided it's over.
Our communication used to be more informative. Granted, when we do communicate it's not hostile or contentious. It's friendly in fact. But we don't share much. Or I should say, H doesn't share much. He's out of town. Where? I don't know. There's nothing in our past communications that would make him keep this a secret, except for the sake of keeping it a secret.
D is learning her first big piece on the piano (Swan Lake) and she asked if we could see the ballet, all three of us. Together. I looked around and found that it's being performed soon nearby (what are the odds?) so I texted H about it.
He said to let him know about dates. I found a performance on October 17 and texted him to ask him if that would work. He said, "That should work. I'm having outpatient surgery the day before. I might be moving a bit slowly but I should be fine."
What?
So I ask, "What surgery?"
His response: "V"
So, my husband has arranged to get a vasectomy.
We talked about it before BD. He kept putting it off, I was nagging because I was desperate to get off the freaking BC but I finally dropped it.
Now he's getting it and I can't help but feel like the lack of "hey by the way, I'm planning on scheduling this" exchange is just a big glaring indication that he's decided he wants a divorce.
Maybe I'm nuts. Mindreading, of course. When there's no communication it's hard not to. And I can't seem to do a 'vossy' and find the direct opposite of the negative thought...
... maybe he wants a V so once we get back together we'll be having so much amazing sex that birth control couldn't possibly keep up so he has to schedule a V.
That's stupid and ridiculous.
Yes. I'm afraid. I'm afraid of what I don't know and I don't want to know what I don't know. I just get this strong feeling that he's gone. For good.
Hi Ss,
We must be always be online at the same time because we're both on the west coast.
Here's what I think - there is a difference between your husband not being an active particpant in the marriage (which is what is happening) now and actively wanting a divorce (which may or may not hapen). Honestly, there probably are days when he thinks he wants a divorce, but probably not all days - I just don't think thats human nature especially with an 18 year relationship that appears to have started in your teens.
I know this is hard. I'm right there with you. I've seen several posters caution against timelines and I understand the rationale, but I've found it helpful to think that I really am going to have no expectations for improvement until at least the end of the year - other than the two of us being effective co parents. I assume that if there is no improvement at that point, it will have become more of a habit of thought and will be easier to maintain then.
A separation is a big deal. I don't think any WAS is really going to know or resolve their thoughts in a period of a few months. Obviously, my sitch is a little more dire (OW and husband has affirmatively stated he wants D, although he was very willing to wait 6 months)- and I have accepted that if the situation does turnaround, if my H realizes what he is trhowing a way- its probably going to take him a long time. In some ways, I think my situation is easier, because its pretty easy not to mind read right now - and I feel like I have no where to go but up. It also makes it easier to focus on GAL, which really is starting to kick in and help me.
I think you need to embrace this and stop tortuing yourself over every interaction (Honestly- I talk a good game but I would have been thrown by a vasectomy announcement as well).
Your husband probably has no idea what he wants and it could easily change hour by hour, day by day. He is in some sort of crisis right now. Accept that in regards to your marriage, he is not stable right now and when you are reading into things, wondering what he is doing it is only hurting you.
You seem like such a charismatic person with such a lot to give - focus all that wonderful energy on something besides H for awhile.
raliced,
I'm grateful you're on the west coast because you always chime in when I need a life preserver the most. Thank you.
I know everything you're saying is right. I do. I definitely have trouble accepting things that are out of my control and this is great practice but man, don't you think I could have been given something smaller and less important to learn off of?
I need to be busier. I need to do more to GAL than just yoga classes. I need a freaking job.
In an effort to regain control, even if it's at least in my head, I work like crazy on myself. I've read 10 marriage/relationship books in the last month. Underlining, journaling, taking the surveys and quizzes, writing out answers to the questions so I can get to the bottom of my issues. It's almost obsessive, I'll admit.
I cannot get my mind off the journey of getting to be the person I want to be. The person I've always wanted to be. I'm so reactive that I know it's going to take time and practice. H has said that *if* we get back together there isn't a lot of room for mistakes. I get that. I've worn him raw.
Next weekend H has D and I wonder if I can arrange to go do something away. I'd love to go with a friend but all of my friends are married with young children so I'm not sure that's possible.
I'm in a rut. No doubt. I just need to find a way to get myself out of it before I get too deep into it. I'm going to start with putting away these marriage/self-help books for a while. Read for pleasure for a little while.
What else?
raliced,
I'm going to start with putting away these marriage/self-help books for a while. Read for pleasure for a little while.
What else?
I think that is an
excellent idea. Knowledge is power - but you need some light entertainment as well.
I know you're out there GAL, and, by the way, I don't think its realistic that we can all snap our fingesr and just suddenly have a well rounded fulfilling GAL in the period of a few months either (and some posters beat themselves up way too much for this). Didn't you say you were a photographer? I have to believe that there are a lot of charitable organizations that would love to have the services of a professional. I know the animal resuce I occasionally help out, is always begging for a photographer to take better looking pictures of the rescues. You mentioned making your home feel more "permanent" - are their other projects you can do to achieve this?
Also - it doesn't sound like your daughter is into sports, but is there an activity that you can get involved in together (volunteering, girl scouts etc)? I volunteered to coach D6s soccer team on a whim (having never coached before) and I have to say that being around a bunch of joyous 6-7 year old girls
always gives me such a mental and emotional boost. It's become my favorite time of the week.
Finally - about not getting away because all your friends are married. Honestly some of the best trips I have ever taken were by myself during my sngle days. I didn't have to compromise and could do whatever the heck I wanted. Truly. Give it a try.
BTW - that change of mindset where I said I wouldn't have any expectations for improvement until at least the end of the year? That helped me tremendously. It let me stop focusing H quite so much and it was easier to accept that saying "No expecations" forever.
Oh yeah - and a feeling in the pit of your stomach is just mind reading via a different organ.
Second that on reading for pleasure. That's a GAL activity too.
Wish we could meet for a girls weekend! But a weekend to yourself is a great idea.
Here, I'll "pull a vossy" for you
To flip that around, I'd be telling myself "at least he doesn't foresee a future where he starts a family with another woman" Sure, a vasectomy can be reversed, but it's supposedly extremely complicated.
Oh yeah - and a feeling in the pit of your stomach is just mind reading via a different organ.
So true.
Thanks, raliced.
Just being involved in something different so I can shift my mind's focus onto something, anything, else. Two months ago I thought that would mean I'd just get a job and the time would fly because I'd be so busy... now my journey consists of finding that job. Not as much fun as actually HAVING a job. It certainly doesn't pass the time like having a job does, either (and the pay [censored], too!).
Vossy, thanks for "voss-ifying" my mindreading. You're right. I guess D will be the only child for him and most likely me. And apparently if H and I get back together, I need to accept that we will only have one child - clearly.
ok then, GAL in ways that draw me out instead of draw me in.
>sigh<
Ss06, I believe you have suggested you don't need a job so much for the money, so you could always think about taking up a volunteering position or starting your own hobby/job on the web. It definitely helps to do something that occupies your mind and takes thoughts away from the matter at hand..
You say you'll need to accept that you'll only have one child.. but didn't you say you were pushing for the vasectomy?
Ss06, I believe you have suggested you don't need a job so much for the money, so you could always think about taking up a volunteering position or starting your own hobby/job on the web. It definitely helps to do something that occupies your mind and takes thoughts away from the matter at hand..
Yes, I agree. I'm planning on talking to D's school to see if they need help in the library or anywhere else that I can assist. I have a small photography business but working from home has me wallowing and I need to not do that.
You say you'll need to accept that you'll only have one child.. but didn't you say you were pushing for the vasectomy?
I know. It's contradictory... as are my feelings on the matter.
We'd both decided that D was PLENTY and that we were satisfied with being one and done. I asked H to schedule a V and 3 years later was still asking.
Then I started to wonder if I was really done. I know D would love a sibling and I loved having siblings so. It was something in the back of my mind but with how hard baby-hood hit our marriage and my PPD I just didn't think it was possible.
Now, sort of out of the blue he's scheduled a V while we're separated. I can see us being perfectly satisfied with just one child but I can't help but wonder if he's going for the V so he doesn't get into some pregnancy scare with someone else. You know how the mind works there. Plus, I guess it's something I assumed you'd say to your wife (separated or not) before she had to ask.
I can definitely agree with you there. Separated or not, hearing about the operation simply "in passing" doesn't feel right.
I have to admit, though, something about your H's actions have struck a chord. In the past few days, you've written about three occasions where he has mentioned something "in passing" and my feeling is that he wants you to ask him or probe further about them: (1) the operation; (2) his going away for a night currently; and (3) his going away later (I think it was November).
I could be wrong, and maybe I'm just mindreading your H now, but that was my first thought on each of those occasions.
Ss, does he know that you were waffling about being done? If not, then the V might be a 180 for your benefit, in his mind.
SS,
While I understand that hearing about the v in an offhand way may have been unsettling , it sounds like your h has decided he doesn't want any other kids. Period. I don't see (and it would be guessing anyway) any ulterior motives or whether or not it specifically relates to you. I don't mean that harshly-just that your h has decided 1 kid is enough for him regardless of what the future holds.
Hang in there:)
The V could be a positive. Reminds me of my H, he's more actions than words. Maybe he's doing the V because it was something that you had nagged about and he thinks will make you happy? Seriously, that's totally something my H would do.
Although in the end all this speculation is all futile...and more mind reading. Just offering that there are MANY possibilities and you really don't know..
Ss, I think you made the best mind-reading play. It's for all of the amazing sex he wants to have with YOU without worrying about contraceptives. That thought does two things: puts a smile on your face and shows you how ridiculous mind reading is. I think the only sure thing we can say about our WAS's is that they don't have a grand plan that they're sure about. Even most of the WAS's who have filed or have already been through the D probably have second thoughts.
you know what you need to do, though (GAL, etc). I totally understand your rut. I was there 2-3 weeks ago. keep pursuing it and it will turn around. Can't wait to hear it when you turn back around. And I know that DB.com says this forum isn't intended for people to meet, but it would be amazing for you west coast gals to find a way to have a girls weekend
For a little entertainment, and to say "at least my M isn't THAT", go see Gone Girl. And if you haven't read the book, read it. Read anything from Gillian Flynn.
Also, I'm not out west, but I go to bed really late, so I seem to be on here at the same time as you guys, too. This forum has been a life saver at times for me
Just got back from dinner with D and H to celebrate D passing her yellow karate belt test yesterday. We took her to her favorite restaurant and laughed and laughed. It was really fun.
I was quite at first. He arrived with yellow flowers for D (for the color of her belt) and at first I was hurt because "what about me" but this whole thing is for her and I'm so proud of her... this is NOT about our relationship or our separation. I needed a second to remember that. Gah.
H wanted to hit the book store before heading home. His IC recommended Brene Brown's The Gifts of Imperfection for him to read and he wanted to pick it up. They didn't have it but D got sucked into the kids book section (she's a huge reader, i'm so proud) so he and I were talking and whatnot. I steered clear of "how's therapy?" and "so where were you last night?" and just kept it light. We laughed and then then reminisced to the days when D loved the little Boynton board books and we read them 10,000 times a day to her.
Anyway, when we got home D wanted to give H a gift she'd made (well I made it but she helped). It's a little terrarium of succulents that she picked out. He looked at me and thanked me. I told him I hoped it brought some life to his apartment. He jokingly said that it was like The Professional's apartment. It had no life like some assassin lived there. I said, "well now you have the plant that Natalie Portman carried everywhere in the film, just don't teach the kid how to shoot a sniper rifle, ok?" He smiled and thanked me again.
All in all a good night.
I think perhaps H is looking for signs that I'm interested in him. Sort of along the lines of what you're saying vossy. I think he wants me to ask more about things, be more interested. I've been trying to give him space and not be too nosy lest it be seen as controlling and pursuing but I'm going to go with my gut on this one more and ask about things in a conversational way (as opposed to a confrontational or aggressive way of course). Let him know I'm interested in what is going on in his life, how he feels about it, etc.
Georgiabelle and mdu, I think you're right. H isn't the kind of guy to think to hard about things like this. He doesn't want more kids. What's the next step? V. Done and done. I think it's something he's doing because it was on the list for so long. No other reason.
I just want to be clear about the V. It's not like he's doing something against my wishes. I was more shocked he'd do something like that without securing someone to care for him (like me) or drive him. I mean, I'm assuming that's not the kind of thing you want your mother to care for you over but maybe I'm wrong. LOL Plus, I thought that during a separation was a pretty interesting time to have something like that done. Then again, my H has a very interesting priority list and I'm learning that it's HIS and not MINE so I'm letting go.
Card, I think I'm going to go see Gone Girl alone next weekend. I loved the book and can't wait. I've never been to a movie by myself.
I hadn't either until tonight. I also had never seen a movie AFTER reading the book. That was fun!
Maybe your H didn't give a second's thought, but I would consider it progress if my W told me a thing that her IC discussed with her. She sees her ever 3-4 weeks and I have no clue what they discuss (although I could make a few guesses).
And I don't blame you for feeling bewildered about the V decision/timing. Don't let it eat you up, but also don't feel bad for wondering. It is strange that he only mentioned it in passion. Maybe he's reading Sandi's rules (being mysterious) lol
Congrats to your D on the yellow belt! That's also really exciting about her learning Swan Lake. I remember my first "real" song (Fur Elise), the beginner's version (only the main theme, not the harder middle sections). That's when piano went from a chore to an interest (and eventually a passion) for me. And that was 6 or 7 years later than your D. Really awesome stuff
Ss,
That sounds like a really good night-- he opened up to you about his IC, you had lighthearted, pleasant interactions, AND you caught your own negative thought pattern before you said something you didn't really want to say!
Congrats!
Gone Girl, I've heard, should at least make you feel better about your marital situation!
I think perhaps H is looking for signs that I'm interested in him. Sort of along the lines of what you're saying vossy. I think he wants me to ask more about things, be more interested. I've been trying to give him space and not be too nosy lest it be seen as controlling and pursuing but I'm going to go with my gut on this one more and ask about things in a conversational way (as opposed to a confrontational or aggressive way of course). Let him know I'm interested in what is going on in his life, how he feels about it, etc.
Yes, this is exactly what I meant, and you actually put it better than I put it myself. (Maybe that's why I haven't picked up any new writing jobs!) You have mentioned before that his self-esteem seems low, and so I imagine he doesn't feel comfortable putting himself "out there" for fear of.. whatever. But he does *seem* to be wanting more interaction, IMO.
This may sound silly but the way your H is communicating reminds me a bit of how I am with my WAH.
When I go out of town I don't tell him and if he finds out I am vague with details. I make big decisions and don't discuss them with him but might drop hints about what I am doing.
I behave in this way for many reasons including:
-trying to be mysterious
-trying to be independent
-feeling like I shouldn't reveal information unless he asks
-being defensive
-wanting my privacy
-trying to get a reaction
Obviously I am the LBS and not a WAH but maybe the reasons for his behavior could be similar. To me it sounds like he is trying to take control of his life in a way...
Hugs,
Lisa
Ss,
Not to point out the obvious but he mentioned "if" y'all got back together. That's a positive!!! Also if you want to "be" with him, I guarantee he would. I know I would if my wife would let me. Cause ultimately that's what hurts all of us LBS, the knowledge that there will probably never be a one last anything. I asked my wife since she won't let me kiss her lips when I leave (used to b very impt.to her-and yes I failed at that too!) If I could hug her & maybe kiss her on the forehead, she actually said yes. It's very hard but I'm trying to appreciate every positive thing I'm experiencing w/her. Even if it's just our hands brushing together or a smile directed at ME! That said, if these spouses are waffling that's a good thing. I know I'd rather hear a maybe than a He'll No. Not trying to sound sanctimonious just trying to be optimistic (and yes that's one of my 180's). Taking care of you is really simple but no one said it would be easy.
The hug thing is important to me as I never know if I'll survive my shift at work (LEO). Just look at the rain in our lives as little drops of sunshine. Of course it seems as if everyday at some point, I make my own little drops of sunshine.
Hi SS, we have a similar time line. My H is also demonstrating in small ways that he might be interested -- but it's hard to know if he's interested in seeing what's possible with us, or interested in just being friends. I guess time will tell.
The V thing would have thrown me off as well. Just make sure you protect yourself if he initiates intimacy with you. My H has a V and I worry about contracting STD if he returns (testing would be required in that case).