I'm back again after thinking his small scraps of kindness were a sign that things were better.
I was here in 2006 as a newlywed, when he bombed me around Christmas time over a disagreement over him not wanting to attend my work party with me. It went from this to I don't love you anymore in less than 10 minutes while trying to get him in the car.
I lost weight, went to ic, worked out, gave him space. Cried, slept alone in the bedroom, I just wanted to die. I was at that time reading db books, trying to not beg plead and reason. I don't know what happened exactly, but I remember two things I did that changed everything.
1) I stopped trying to explain away his need to move out and divorce me, and at the same time told him if he did this to expect to pay over a thousand dollars per month in child support.
2). I hurt both my ankles at curves and he softened towards me when both feet were in those giant blue Velcro shoes.
We seemed to move on after that around February , nothing more was said after that, but I had a mouth full of resentment, and I kept my distance.
Said a lot less, and a wall went up between us.
We continued with vacations, family get togethers, house remodeling, work, ml sometimes. As normal as I knew things.
I even think after months had gone by, he might have come to me and apologized , said he did love me, said he was sorry.
One thing I need to make clear is my h is a alcoholic, drinks everyday after work, and as soon as his eyes open on weekends. This was the main friction between us always. When you are married to a alcoholic you deal with embarrassment , settling for less, arguments about how they shouldn't drive constantly, why the sex life has suffered, which to them seems like your critical , mothering, telling them there not a man.
Years went by, more distance, walls, spent less time together, and didn't have PC for over 3 years. I felt if he loved his drinking so much, wasn't interested in family or what my wants were, I would keep to myself. He started staying in the garage day after day, got him a wood burning stove, some recliners, giant tv and made him a man cave. He told me it was for football season, so he would bother me with all the yelling and noise.
I started getting very resentful at each missed opportunity to go somewhere, do something as a family, or how he never wanted to spend time with just me, go out on a date, hold my hand. Just nothing!
He never came in the house, stopped all projects even maintenance , didn't step foot inside except to use the bathroom, sleep in the bed, or open the bills.
I worked, cleaned, took care of the animals and our dd 12, slept lots, and played games on the computer while he spent all his time in the man cave with all the neighbors, doing odd jobs for the neighbors, fixing the neighbors cars, etc... And drinking of course.
Last year I was laying in bed, playing games real early on New Year's Eve, when I had had all I could take of this, I loved my h and decided I would except the drinking, and join him in the man cave if that's what it took. I wanted to get to know him again, I wanted affection, and love. I wanted my h back.
I had a long. Talk with him, telling him my wishes and he said to me this
1) you hurt me and broke my heart years ago, by rejecting his attempts of affection
2) you say everything I do is wrong, you think I'm a piece of s&it
3) you have no respect for me,
4) you made me what I am, I'm done, I was done a long time ago
5) only staying so I don't take him for everything he has
6) I'm fake, I'm a liar, I am only saying these things to him because I'm getting older and have limited options.
7) that he knows it won't work, I will go back to my ways, and he had no heart left, that I ripped it out of him .
8) he's happy I'm in pain, overjoyed that I now can feel what he felt.
9) and to leave him alone!
I couldn't have been more upset, I thought we both were to blame, but he says it's all me
So of course this sends me into a anxious, begging, pleading , reasoning , needy, cycle
Got a Db coach right away, read my DVD books, stopped all talk of the r
Trying to gal, thinking of 180's
And just 2 more things I want to ad to my sitch
He started sleeping in the garage every night now
And even though he's called me stupid, satan, hateful, can't stand me, all my fault, crazy and disrespectful, he says he loves me.
I'm so tired of this, I'm sincerely sorry about my part, I just want to be happy with my h, after all I choose him even knowing about the drinking. So I just want to experience some peace and feel loved again. I am to the point I would do anything to get him on board with repairing our r.
He gets off the charts disrespectful anymore, draws back from all touch. Wants nothing to do with me.
I walk around consumed with doomed thoughts and I am absolutely filled with fear he will divorce me.
I can't undue the past, I can however make the rest of my life different.
He just keeps saying he's done! I don't even have to be saying anything to him for this to happen. He loves me but he can't stand me!
What in the world do I do now, seems another waste of time to hold onto the past.
I hate also that I am 100% sincere at wanting to show love , and be happy with h! don't care about his faults.
But he calls me a liar.
So I have made a list of what the h would say are the most irritating things about me, than I looked up the opposite online and came up with things like :
1) mean/nice
2) disrespectful / considerate
3) nagging/reassuring ,comforting
4) needy/ undemanding
5) criticize / praise
6) fake/ honest, genuine
7) attack/ retreated,support, console
8) boring/ alluring ,fabulous, energizing
9) hateful/loving, affectionate , kind
10) reject/defend, cherish ,accept
I wanted to look at it on paper, see if some keywords popped out at me, so I could use them as my 180's
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks, I am working on gal, and 180's.
I also am giving h space right now since he basically says he's been sleeping in the garage because I annoy him. I have heard him say I rejected affection so many times that he's done, that he was broken hearted years ago, and that now I can see what that felt like.
Anyway, as I came home from work I said hello, and that was about it, to which he responded by giving me a peck of a kiss.
Don't know what's on his mind, since he blames me for everything, and then after spewing hells fire and hate of biblical proportions he sits calmly after a few days, and gives me a kiss.
The Db coach told me not to argue with his feelings, but not to alow him to cuss at me or verbally abuse , that I am to leave the room and tell h I'm not going to be talked to like that.. So far I have been able to do this, instead of shutting down and being silent.
Got lots of work ahead, gal is not something I embrace right now. But I will press on.
So I went out with my family yesterday to visit my aunt in the assisted living, out to eat and to one of those big farm markets/ pumpkin patches and last to get ice cream.
I have been cleaning our house all week, organizing closets, getting rid of the clutter, as well as trying to take care of my appearance , and giving h space.
Some things I noticed. Was
H has no interest in helping me with anything inside this house, won't unclog sinks, finish projects, fold a load of laundry, feed the animals, take out any trash, nothing at all if it is inside this house.
Now if it pertains to his garage where he has slept for about two weeks, he will show ownership, keep it clean, take out the trash , but only his trash.
He will only do his laundry, and will throw anything of me or my daughters aside in a basket to wrinkle. He will go get himself fast food, but won't offer me anything.
He just sits out there aside from work watching tv, watching every football game, playing video games, drinking beer and is not interested in anything that has anything to do with me and d, the house, our lives, his pets,
If I go out there and sit for a minute he doesn't initiate any conversation, and stares through me to his tv.
N If I were to start any kind of friendly banter I usually get spoken to with anger, or he rolls his eyes at me while he tells me I do nothing but talk, I never shut up, or in a agitated tone says "get to the point" , just very rude and un-interested.
So I noticed if one of the neighbors come over to visit him, he is nice and friendly , looks at them when they talk, etc... I just feel hated.
I saw all the happy little families out at the orchard, the ice cream shop and was thinking that I wish I had a marriage like that. I would give anything to have my h want to go out with us as a family, Opening doors, spending his time with us.
He only hides as far away as possible from anything to do with me and d
And the only thing important to him is that tv,
I've told him I hate that he has started sleeping in garage, that I wish he would at the least sleep in our bed, but he just won't.
I guess I will struggle through this, trying to not chase scraps of attention and let his abandonment of our m not consume me.
It doesn't have to be like this, it's like he is straight sabotaging any chance at a happy m.
After reading over what I wrote
Why would I expect anything different from h
If I listen carefully at what he has told me , he's done, I annoy him, I talk to much, I am needy, I don't think much of him, I don't think he does anything right, I use him for a paycheck, on and on
I have in the past had many conversations on his feelings , even though I don't think he's worthless, I don't think these things about him, and I've told him I was sorry it seemed that way at times, he can't/ won't move past this, won't commit to our r, won't do much of anything that pertains to m.
I have been Db for almost a year, sometimes more than others (be careful of false hope) , and I can't find a way back in his heart.
I don't think he values me or this m, I can't get him to help me save our r, or even be respectful of me.
But he claims he loves me, well if he loves me than why is he throwing me away?
Spent most of the day tackling neglected housework, cooking Mexican food, visiting with a Friend and very little contact with h. Need to pull back some more.
It sounds like you really need to refocus your DB skills. Just because you've been doing it for a year doesn't mean much if you aren't doing it as well as you can. GAL is very hard at first because it feels like giving up. Keep trying and you will eventually start to find yourself again. Only then will you be able to make changes that your H, or another man in the future, might find appealing and want to reconcile with. It also sounds like you are still doing rookie-level begging and pleading. That is not going to work, and will only drive him further into his cave and his bottle.
The alcoholism is also a huge obstacle that must be crossed. You aren't going to build a solid, loving marriage while your H is an addict. Do not buy the fact that he is the way he is solely because of you. He is a grown man and has to own up to his mistakes. Unfortunately for you, the motivated one in the R, it is his battle to fight. You can only be a cheerleader. I have no advice for the best course of action for the spouse of an alcoholic. I will have to differ to vets and professionals. But also, don't ignore the reasons he does blame you for his problems and current state. There is most likely some element of truth to most or all of it. THAT is part of what you should be focused on changing. If you are successful making and sustaining these major 180's in your life, you will be an improved, independent, wise, strong woman that gives your R the best chance of thriving. And it also sets you up to never go through something like this again if it doesn't work out with your H.
Yes I started Db last jan and at first things were going real well right off the bat, but after only two weeks he said I was fake, a liar, and that he doesn't believe that the change was real or that it would last.
And I do struggle with reasoning with him to try to get reassurances from him, my Db coach told me this is my biggest problem and I try each day not to ask questions (since he hates them) , and not to hover around, not to hang onto h with conversation, not to argue, basically not to do any of the things that trigger anger from h.
The thing with our r is, one week might be good, the next very bad, and when h gets angry he punishes me by ignoring me for weeks at a time.
some days he hates me, some days he loves me, sometimes we go away on a trip, sometimes he ignores me., and more often than not he is insulting, disrespectful, and wants to be as far away from me as possible.
Back and forth like this has given false hope more than once, and I forget to follow the rules when he looks like we're on the right track. But I never forget to show empathy for his feelings no matter what.
My h indeed has dropped bomb after bomb, disrespected me in front of not only our dd but my entire family on a trip very badly.
Told me at least three times he wanted a divorce, told me he's done!
So I feel I have for the most part letting him spew hate and anger at me for almost a year, and I have not fought him back, or argued his feelings away, which has worn me down.
Db coach gave me homework, to pull back on our interaction together, stay busy with gal and 180's, and the most important thing was to never allow h to cuss at me or disrespect me without telling him that's not ok, and to leave the room when it happens.
I am tired, and I fight the resentment that is building up with each day I try to be a good person, a kind person, and an apologetic person. I'm sorry that I rejected h years ago, I'm sorry I didn't noticed the damage, I can't go back and change anything. I m also sorry h doesn't see his drinking influenced my behavior at the time.
The rejection was my way of telling him his drinking was not ok, but it didn't stop the drinking, it caused him to feel unloved and he is bitter with a huge wall up.
I indeed need to do a better job at my gal, sandys rules and 180, and I need to keep them consistent
Thank you for some insight. .
keep up with your 180s and really work on GAL. I think in your sitch working on GAL could really help you.
The way I read it, you are going out to that garage to talk to him, and be with him. Since I am a fellow Ohioan, I am going to guess that will change pretty soon. My guess is that sometime within the next month he will start coming inside to get warm!
I wish I could help you with the alcohol issue. I hope one of the vets on this board will come by and have good advice for you!
Nah, he has a wood burning stove out there, he never needs to come inside if he pees outside, orders pizza and keeps the fire going. Yes, in order to Speak to him I have to go out to the garage.
Yesterday I only handed him his plate, ate in the garage with him in silence.and that was all the whole day. Made me angry that he didn't have one thing to say to me on his own. Oh well, I'm not really surprised .
I mean he did tell me he's out there to get away from me.
Get out there and GAL. It will help you cope with "the stranger living in your garage" and maybe even make him a little curious as to what you are up to.
eaarly on in my M I retreated to the barn. Not to the extent you are describing but I did it. My W started going out and being away more often. her pulling away pulled me back into the M and into the house. It was almost as if she was DBing me.
Ok, so I broke the rules, I came home from being gone over the weekend and went to the garage to sit, (it was h b-day).
I really didn't have anything much for him but I did cook him breakfast that morning and told him "happy birthday".
I sat for over an hour playing on the iPad, not saying much of anything while he ignored me and watched football.
So it really really bothers me that on top of not talking to me, not touching me, not being the least bit respectful when he is forced to speak to me, that he now has started sleeping in the garage.
The last conversation I had about this new activity in my sitch he told me it was because it's too hot, it's to cold, dogs wake him up, and hates the blanket... And that he was angry at me, and he sleeps better out there with none of these things he hates.
Be But that he doesn't plan on sleeping there forever.
Sure enough as if I had no control over myself I tell him those reasons can't be why, that I want the truth. That know one would sleep on a lumpy cold couch when I could turn off fans, change blankets, and basically fix the things he all of a sudden won't sleep with.
So I push harder, saying "say the words". And he said , (fine! Ilybinilwy). He also said he wasn't attracted to me anymore. And he said in with pure hate in his voice.
Yea, now I know, and I should of just shut my mouth.
How in the world do I respond to this? I ask just enough questions after that to send him into a crazy foaming angry monster, went in the house and started sobbing.
Now what
"How in the world do I respond to this?'
You don't. You pushed it and he responded and you didn't like his answers so you pushed some more. You got the answer you wanted even though it might have been true. You WANTED that answer, then when you got it, you felt hurt.
This seems to be the same pattern the two of you have been following since the first time you were here. What have you changed in terms of your behavior? You can only control yourself.
"4) you made me what I am, I'm done, I was done a long time ago"
I said a similar thing to W: "you made me like this". If H is like me, he blames you for his unhappiness. You don't own his happiness, he does.
I think you need to GAL, detach, and do not go in the garage and engage with H. Over time, H MIGHT realize that despite getting what H wanted, he still isn't happy and take a look at life.
You can't talk this out with H. That is his journey and no one knows where it will go.
Your part is what MrBond wrote above.
I think what I'm doing different or for the most part is not asking questions about all the why's or trying to pursue, beg, plead and implore.
I mess up at least a few times a week and it is really hard for me to do this, but I get back up the next day and try again.
I have abandonment issues , they are pretty severe, which I wish I didn't. There have been times in my life it has caused low self worth and humiliation because I did or said things that no one with a drop of self esteem or morals would have done.
I also have been trying to go do things on my own, or away from h,
I have each day done something to make our house cleaner, or more appealing, painting, de-cluttering
I have tried to appear happy around h especially even though I'm feel like I'm in shock
I have been watching my appearance much more, focusing on my d more,
I know I need to follow Db techniques at all times, I know I am weak and needy,
I have always needed to know why, and usually I never find out anyway,
Not only do I need to know why, but the reason has to make sence to me or I question it, or worse try to reason.
Now just today my sister tells me that my h on our last family trip together told her h that his first wife (not me) was the love of his life.
More hurt, one more thing to try not to ask him about, one more reason to hurt.
"Now just today my sister tells me that my h on our last family trip together told her h that his first wife (not me) was the love of his life."
Believe not of what they say and half of what they do.
"Not only do I need to know why, but the reason has to make sence to me or I question it, or worse try to reason."
He probably doesn't even know the reason so there is no way he can possibly explain it to you.
"think what I'm doing different or for the most part is not asking questions about all the why's or trying to pursue, beg, plead and implore."
You just did this yesterday. In fact, you "lawyered" him into finally verbalizing ILYBINILWY. I fully understand the need to know. And deep down, I am sure you are glad you finally heard him say it so that you can finally start to deal with the real issue.
Start working hard on the 180s. Start working on GAL and getting out. Create that air of mystery. Get away from the house. Take D someplace new. Take her and visit friends or family. Getting away will accomplish multiple things. It will take your mind off the topic, it will allow you to start building up your esteem, It will prevent you from going to the garage and persuing him, and it will maybe make him think you are moving on and will not always be there for him. Last but not least it will allow you to see that there is more to life than your H that is residing in your garage.
"Really?" "Love of his life? She cheated on him with a busboy at her job, she would take his paycheck and be three states away when he got home from work! She chased him for years after their d, while I was just a girlfreind and could have easily gone back to her if she was the "love of his life"
I just don't understand
I will give "gal" all that I have , but I'm starting to think there's no hope.
He clearly will reject anything and everything even deliberately hurting me right now.
I feel he wants me to hate him, he wants me to d him, he can't and won't do one thing to reconcile with me because that would soften his hate for me , and he feels he will get sucked back into the r.
He wants to believe that his life is miserable, and his wife treats him terrible and his job treats him terrible. That way he has a reason to drink as much as he does and numb out to his supposed pain.
I mean this is not the first time or the second that I've heard those dreaded words.
This is not the first time for any of this.
He seems to cycle between giving the r another chance and not wanting to try because he already knows it won't work.
The only difference this time is he's meaner and absolutely won't hold back anything , he now will be disrespectful x 10, hurtful as he can be, and tells me to leave, go away and leave him the f$ck alone at almost every interaction.
Why do I even love this person? In my mind I hold fast to happier times, when he was admirable and showed me he loved me, and I can't hardly believe that person is gone.
How much of this is the alcohol?
Stop interacting with him. Go away. Leave him alone. You are allowing him to make you miserable because he is miserable.
Make it a goal to go 24 hours without speaking to him. Then, make it a goal to go 12 without thinking about him. Go 3 days without going into his garage.
I'm not a good judge on how much is the alcohol because he is a high functioning alcoholic , has a high paying job that he's been at since high school, and hardly ever gets to the point he's sloppy, even when he should
But here for the last couple years the sloppy drunk has appeared more often. The drinking has increased to include morning , and he has at times not known what he said.
I've devoted the better part of today reading the "tips from wise veterans " and I need to make some goals, 180's, and gal. I'm so afraid to not see him for 3 days as you suggest, and I'll tell you why.
About 4 years ago I was beyond tired of the drinking and how he spent all his days off with friends and neighbors , playing cards, corn hole, tv, bars etc... He was not interested in family time, going somewhere with me or much of anything I would have liked. So I started spending my time apart from him, stopped talking to him, stopped being affectionate and I thought he would miss me and take notice.
He only from time to time would ask if I wanted to join him , but only in the activities I named above, so I got more resentful, and angry, and would nag at him constantly about how I felt , how everyone else was more important than me, how he wouldn't spend time with me, blah blah ...
Well before I knew it 3 years had passed and he didn't miss me at all, in fact
He jumped for joy if I ignored him. And that is why he says he has moved on and won't be rejected again. That 3 years was painful for him, and he says he doesn't believe that I love him, or that our m can ever be happy again.
Anyway, staying away from him got me in this situation in the first place. But I have spent almost a year trying to show him that I realize what I did, validate, and try not to blame him for anything. I in this time have walked through a war zone with him, and feel like the enemy.
I forgave all the things he did to me on my own without ever getting one apology from him.
He thinks it's all me and his hands are clean, I am ok with that right now because I want my husband back, not to win. He used to be so good to me.
I try not to focus on the drinking anymore and just accept it, I can't change that part of him and he's not interested. I realized a year ago that I had summed him up as a drunk and didn't even know him anymore. I missed him and desperately wanted us to be happy .
So in a nutshell, he was fine as long as I didn't want anything out of him, but when I started doing Db , and trying to show him that I loved him, and was going to accept the things I didn't agree with is when he started this was mode.
Ok. Knowing a little more I need to say I'm sorry for being harsh. If he is drinking in the morning be does have a real problem.
I would suggest getting some help with the alcohol issue. I certainly understand supporting him through the process. I really hope someone here will chime in regarding the alcohol issue.
Good luck and wish you peace and happiness.
No, I'm at all thinking your to harsh, I really value and appreciate any and all feedback.
I guess we're dealing with two problems , wah and alcoholism , so don't always know what the best move is.
I worry that if I keep accepting the verbal attacks and lashings that he throws my way quite often that I will at some point feel there's no going back, or that I become weaker to him.
Yes I know I can stop and walk away, but some of the things out his mouth are extremely cruel, and almost impossible to let go and keep a Pma.
I need goals, focus, detach, 180's all that
bumping this up to get it back on the active posts lists. I hope a seasoned vet can chime in on the alcohol issue.
I hope a seasoned vet can chime in on the alcohol issue.
Disclaimer: I am not a seasoned vet, but I do have some experience with the alcohol issue (not my H). If your H is an alcoholic, no amount of DB-ing is going to fix that. The issues are bigger than that. He needs to decide to do something about it, when he's ready. Until then, do you want to live that way?
rpp, Im an idiot today. How do you get the boards to post that "quote box"
rpp, Im an idiot today. How do you get the boards to post that "quote box"
You are funny, bdub. I use the "Quick Quote" button in the bottom righthand corner of the post you want to quote. Then use the "Preview Reply" button at the bottom of the Quick Reply box to make sure it looks like you want it to.
You are funny, bdub. I use the "Quick Quote" button in the bottom righthand corner of the post you want to quote. Then use the "Preview Reply" button at the bottom of the Quick Reply box to make sure it looks like you want it to.[/quote]
Well that was a fail ......
Sorry for the hijack sjallda!
Well that was a fail ......
It will look like this,
[quo*te=bdub]Well that was a fail ......
[/quo*te]
except I added the * in the word quote so it wouldn't actually quote. Make sense? In what you did above, you somehow erased the first quote bracket.
except I added the * in the word quote so it wouldn't actually quote. Make sense? In what you did above, you somehow erased the first quote bracket.[/quote]
strike 2. *face palm*
You would think a 41 yr old man with a college degree would be able to figure this out .
except I added the * in the word quote so it wouldn't actually quote. Make sense? In what you did above, you somehow erased the first quote bracket.
[/quote]
Hi Sj-
Been a long time since I have been on here but your post really hit a nerve with me. My H, too, is an alcoholic. It was something that I kept hidden from this board during my time here for fear that people will tell me what some are telling you now. Your primary issue is the alcoholism. This is not to say that there is no benefit in DB, I actually think there is enormous benefit in it. However, and this is a big however, you need additional help. I STRONGLY suggest that you begin attending Al Anon meetings. I suggest you find one tonight.
In a couple of your posts, I already see some co-dependency issues. I don't judge as I had so many of them myself. In addition, the blaming that your H is engaged in is a classic symptom of his alcoholism. Once you attend a meeting, you will see that this is universal. This is not to say that we don't have things that must be improved, we all do, but the blaming is very out of balance in an alcoholic.
I have never ever been to a meeting where I was advised to leave my M. Their goal seems to be the same as DB - to save the marriage. But your H is sick and it WILL get worse. It is not good when they are high functioning because it allows them to ignore the situation longer. My H, too, was high functioning holding a CFO position. For me, this fact lulled me into some sort of false security. I mean hey, it wasn't like he was out on the streets or hanging out in a bar all day. However, things do come crumbling around them eventually if they don't get help. And problems with the marriage can accelerate that timeline. I know. That's exactly what happened to my H.
You cannot force your H to get help. He must do that on his own. But what you can do is stop all behaviors that encourage him. You need to learn boundaries and now. You also need to take control of you. You have asked "how do I deal with his verbal attacks?" This situation is all too common with the alcoholic as well. But you have a right to walk away and not listen to it. I know you are afraid that doing this will make your situation worse, but then know that staying there is a choice you make. Because you are in control far more than you realize. Also know that staying there for these assaults actually encourages him. It's a co-dependent behavior. Operating out of fear will not produce the results you think it will. I promise you.
It is essential you learn skills to deal with the alcoholic and to take care of yourself. You will learn this at Al Anon. My M didn't have a chance until the drinking stopped. I sat in limbo for a very long time. Al Anon changed everything. Again, this is not to say your time here is wasted. There's a lot to be learned here as well. But there isn't any way I can put this in stronger terms - you need to get to Al Anon.
I'm praying for you. Big hugs to you.
LIS
All be darn I think I figured it out!
Thanks, bdub!!
It seems I haven't updated my signature in awhile. So... we've been married 7 years and together 16, he returned in 2013, he's now 45 and I'm now 38
bumping this again for sjallda.
How much of this is the alcohol?
Stop interacting with him. Go away. Leave him alone. You are allowing him to make you miserable because he is miserable.
Make it a goal to go 24 hours without speaking to him. Then, make it a goal to go 12 without thinking about him. Go 3 days without going into his garage.
I used my last Db coaching session yesterday with Leni and she also said don't engage with h, no questions, stop trying to get affirmation from h so I can feel better,
She pointed out a cycle between us
1) I try to get affirmation from h which usually causes him to lash out and feel pressured and angry thinking he needs to get away from me.
2) I walk away reeling with even more pain and rejection than before, and any progress I had managed seems wiped away, feelings of "why am I not good enouph?" "Why won't he try?" "Why can't he see the r is repairable?" Why!
3) damage control , since I never get the answer I wanted, and in most cases the worst answer imaginable (most hurtful , doesn't make sence to me) I than try to find a crumb of hope to hang on to.
4) accepting crumbs , makes me feel no self worth, humiliated, depressed and I allow these interactions to control and consume my emotions , feelings, just everything.
5) h most likely thinks I'm annoying, I have no confidence in myself, no joy, and a shell of the girl he used to love
Coach said I am codependent
The codependent person bends over backward to please and accommodate the other person. Yet they feel like they aren’t doing enough, she said. They experience feelings of self-loathing, which the other person only reinforces by being cruel or abusive,
Sjallda,
Very good post.
It looks like you have the basis for a plan. I hope your DB coaching session gets you headed down a better path!
Hi Sj-
Been a long time since I have been on here but your post really hit a nerve with me. My H, too, is an alcoholic. It was something that I kept hidden from this board during my time here for fear that people will tell me what some are telling you now. Your primary issue is the alcoholism. This is not to say that there is no benefit in DB, I actually think there is enormous benefit in it. However, and this is a big however, you need additional help. I STRONGLY suggest that you begin attending Al Anon meetings. I suggest you find one tonight.
In a couple of your posts, I already see some co-dependency issues. I don't judge as I had so many of them myself. In addition, the blaming that your H is engaged in is a classic symptom of his alcoholism. Once you attend a meeting, you will see that this is universal. This is not to say that we don't have things that must be improved, we all do, but the blaming is very out of balance in an alcoholic.
I have never ever been to a meeting where I was advised to leave my M. Their goal seems to be the same as DB - to save the marriage. But your H is sick and it WILL get worse. It is not good when they are high functioning because it allows them to ignore the situation longer. My H, too, was high functioning holding a CFO position. For me, this fact lulled me into some sort of false security. I mean hey, it wasn't like he was out on the streets or hanging out in a bar all day. However, things do come crumbling around them eventually if they don't get help. And problems with the marriage can accelerate that timeline. I know. That's exactly what happened to my H.
You cannot force your H to get help. He must do that on his own. But what you can do is stop all behaviors that encourage him. You need to learn boundaries and now. You also need to take control of you. You have asked "how do I deal with his verbal attacks?" This situation is all too common with the alcoholic as well. But you have a right to walk away and not listen to it. I know you are afraid that doing this will make your situation worse, but then know that staying there is a choice you make. Because you are in control far more than you realize. Also know that staying there for these assaults actually encourages him. It's a co-dependent behavior. Operating out of fear will not produce the results you think it will. I promise you.
It is essential you learn skills to deal with the alcoholic and to take care of yourself. You will learn this at Al Anon. My M didn't have a chance until the drinking stopped. I sat in limbo for a very long time. Al Anon changed everything. Again, this is not to say your time here is wasted. There's a lot to be learned here as well. But there isn't any way I can put this in stronger terms - you need to get to Al Anon.
I'm praying for you. Big hugs to you.
LIS
Your sweet to reply to me, I guess we all see post that we are drawn to and I had not considered Al anon yet because I haven't exactly convinced myself that him drinking beer each day, more on weekends including mornings meant he was a full blown alcoholic.
In my weird way of explaining away things to make them seem less, I decided hard liquor is worse than beer, he doesn't drink while at work, he seems normal for the most part. I know I'm not thinking right.
I will go to a meeting soon, but once I do this it just makes things get just that much more unmanageable to me.
I was married to a terrible wife beating alcoholic years ago that was abbusive and had blackouts . He did things during these blackouts that scared the sh&t out of me. I don't really think my 2nd (present ) h is the same type, not the same.
I would prefere to think 2nd h is more of a depressed wah, mlc type because I know alcoholics are nearly impossible to change unless they want to.
And that would mean there is no hope because he will never stop drinking or seek help.
He doesn't believe in depression or counceling, or panic attacks. Or that's it's anything but lazy ness, stubbornness , stupidness etc...
He also thinks love is a feeling and I think it's a choice and that once he's "done" that there's nothing that can change his mind
I hope a seasoned vet can chime in on the alcohol issue.
Disclaimer: I am not a seasoned vet, but I do have some experience with the alcohol issue (not my H). If your H is an alcoholic, no amount of DB-ing is going to fix that. The issues are bigger than that. He needs to decide to do something about it, when he's ready. Until then, do you want to live that way?
I want to live in peace, I want my good natured h back that used to love me.
I want what I can't have
You are not alone in this. Keep your chin up and stay strong. Listen to that DB coach and to what the wise people on this board are saying. Take that info in and start working on a plan. You came here seeking help. Something has to change, and only you can make that change happen.
I'm listening, I will go to Al-anon, I will follow the rules from now on to the best of my ability. I am thankful for the responses especially since some of your post make mine look tame.
I really need to find some peace and happiness
I want to make a statement before I go, about ilybinilwy
When this was said to me, I responded with
Oh, I was wondering how long before you were going to join the club!
Sometimes I want to kill you, but I get over it and that doesn't mean I don't love you.
Hi SJ!!
Did you know that most alcoholics are functional? Most of them start out that way? The stereotype many of us walk around with isn't reality. But that stereotype helps us, as their family members, stay in denial. Oh how I wish you knew that so many of us have said, felt and gone through exactly what you are. I read your post nodding my head because almost every one of us walked into Al Anon speaking exactly the same words. I don't say this to reduce you to a mere statistic. I say this so you know that you are in good company and there are so many at Al Anon who have gone before you and know how to help you cope. No one can help you, though, until you are honest with yourself. For me, that was a very hard fought journey. As I stated, I kept my H's alcoholism secret during my time here. But when I finally was honest with myself, I found there was a lot of help between Al Anon and a group of friends who really forced me to develop boundaries and stop my co-dependent behaviors.
The co-dependency issues are very serious especially in your situation. They must be dealt with swiftly. For you, for your H and for your daughter. If your H is an alcoholic, the statistics that your D marries one are a bit scary. By learning to deal with that, you can help her and change those statistics.
Now for the hope part!! Oh my goodness, like you, I thought if my H is an alcoholic, then I have no chance. The fact that I didn't mention his alcoholism while I was here only reinforces what was in my head and deep in my heart. When I went to Al Anon, I found out the opposite is true! It turned out that dealing with the situation and the truth head on gave me and my H the only fighting chance. When I began confronting my H about his drinking in a healthy way (those recommended by Al Anon), he was angry, dismissive and divorcing me every 5 minutes. Oh boy, how I wish I had a dollar for each time he was divorcing me. I'd be one rich woman! He found drinking buddies. Even a drinking gf! Thing is, he started becoming more and more aware. As I got better about my boundaries, he became more mindful of his own behaviors. It changed the entire game. 4 years later, he first got help and stopped drinking. He's fallen down a couple of times, which is pretty normal (although I can't say I've taken it well but that's a whole other story), but the thing is, he is fighting to stay sober. If you asked me 4 years ago if I thought he'd EVER stop drinking, I'd have bet every single thing I own against it. But SJ, that isn't the biggest gift I got in this situation... not even close.
I am the daughter of an alcoholic, step daughter of an alcoholic, sister of an alcoholic, and granddaughter of an alcoholic. I was bred to be co-dependent. I have always had self esteem issues. Bad ones. Being with an alcoholic only made that situation worse. I got my self esteem outside of me which means I was on a roller coaster ride from he!!, as my self esteem was subject to the whims of a man who was rarely sober outside of work and never really thinking clearly. Once I got help, all of that changed in a pretty radical way. Between Al Anon and my core group of friends who committed to helping me, I am no longer afraid of his words or anyone else's. I screw up plenty, but so does everyone else and I'm able to keep that in balance. I am no longer the worst person in the world. I don't live for my H as I have plenty going on in my life that doesn't revolve around my H. So much has changed. And let me tell you, I'd go through every single bit of it again, to get that. So... as far as hope, there is nothing but hope in your situation as long as you get the help.
I apologize for the long post, but like I said, I see so much of my story in your story. I know the feeling of hopelessness I had and I know how thankful I was when I found people to tell me that it is far from hopeless. There's a lot of work to be done SJ, but there are a lot of gifts to be had if you do the work.
Big, big hugs to you. I am praying for you. I mean that sincerely.
LIS