So, a month ago i my wife tells
me she isnt happy and not sure if she can continue on being married to me. This hit me like a ton of bricks. I eas tdy with thr military at the time. I was not expecting anything like this from her. I have spent the last 2 weeks crying and drowning in my depression trying to figure out what to do to win my wife's love back. Before i go on, i must let you know that i have cheated on her and she has taken me back. It has been almsost 3 years since. Nk sex was involved. Honest to god truth, i felt terrible about it. We have been married for 10 with 2 children. So when i get home from TDY, we have a conversation, she is not happy and says we are living like roomates. I will say, we argue often, mostly starred by me. She said that i missed all the signs that she was starting to feel this way. The night after the conversation, i decided to go through her phone, honestly to see what her sisters are talking about so i can see how to fix my marrige. To my surprise, she confessed to her sister that she had slept with another man but that it did not have anything to do woth why she may not want to be married. I asked her about it and she said that it was an eye opener for her, that she would let herself be soo weak and let it happen, it sas then she realized that her love wasn't as strong as it was before. I was devistated. She said she was sorry and that shee regrets it but she still needs time to figure herself out. I would do anything to keep my wife, i forgave her for her infidelity because i have made the same mistake. We have spoke a couple of times about the future in the past couple of weeks; i plead and plead my love and my willlingness to change but she remains steadfast. I feel that i am smothering her with affection and it is making everything worse. What do i do? How long should i wait?

Aug 27
She has not asked for seperation or anything like that. She has ceased all communication with this person, and i ajve proof of this. We still live together, she responds to my affection, says i love you, hugs and kisses me back. I have gotten better about smothering her and i think that has helped. She seems more receptive to my affection now. The other day i didnt call her when i knew she was out of work,even though i knew she should've been home by then. She called and said that she figured that she'd call me because i haven't called her to let me know wherr she was, still at work. We had our first counseling session, it went pretty well, a lot of emotions and tears. I think we can weather this storm. I pray every day for god to guide me back into her heart..

Sep 4
We've had a a few sessions in counseling, 2 together, and indivual(2 for me and 1 for her). She said from the beginning that she would not continue to go if she felt it would not do any good. She did not schedule another for her, however I can going to continue to go. Things have been going fairly well I think, she seemed tk respdond to a small amount of my affection(or so I thought). I do little things that she may like or think is nice/cute. She still hugs and kisses me and says i love you back. But it does seem more rehearsed or ingenuine than id like. However I like to beleive that she wouldn't do it all if she was really done with it all. I had my counseling yesterday, it went well i think. I came out of there in generally good spirits. However, that would change later that night. We layed in bed last night and talk a couple of minutes about random things. Then she asked me how my counseling went and if i scheduled another. I told her it went fine and that yes i did, and that it could be for me, her, or as a couple. She didnt respond and i asked if she was done going. She said that the bottom line is she needed to make up her mind and she knows that me and our counselor talked about that. Honestly we did not. The gist of what we talked about is that I need to love without expectation. Because my wife is in an extreme state of confusion and does know what she wants. She then said "what needs to happen is, we need to separate. That is the only real way that I can truly have time to make up my mind. I am grateful for all the things you are doing around the house and with the kids now, but to be honest, nothing has change with me. I am numb." It was hard for me to swallow this. But, i responded calmly and said i understand, i respect that. What bothers me is that i expressed my concern about someone stealing her heart away while seperated, and that i don't wish to date anyone else. She said that i am trying to control things while apart. She said that seperated is just that, seperated. In other words, she wouldn't have a problem seeing someone else whil we are apart. At least thats what i interpreted as. We are not going to separate just yet, my kids are in new schools and she wants to give them time to asjust. Especially my oldest, she feels that the situation is affecting him. How should i feel right now? I trying to deal with my anxiety about it all, and i am getting better. Is there anything that i can do to stave of this seperation and start healing this marriage now? Any advice would be greatly helpful.
Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.


Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.


Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I had. My counselong session today. I think it went pretty well. I came. In a pretty good mood. Things went on as normal until we layed down to goto bed. She asked me how it went, and i told hr it went good. She asked if i scheduled another and i told her i did. We conversated for a few more mins and then started to goto sleep. Out of no where she started to pull on my ear lobe (she has a thing fof my ear lobes) and then layed on my shoulder and fell asleep. I wanted to melt.

This morning went terrible. We both goto up to goto work and the gym. She has bedn very protective of her phone lately, so she left it near me and left the room. I didn't want tp look at it becasue honestly i was scared of what i may find. But i did anyway. I noticed she had installed an app called kik. A messenger app. She knew somethkng was bothering me and asked me what was wrong. I confronted her about the app, she did not deny it, she said that she was talking to a friend and she doesn't need me to go and get crazy on them to try and get a hold of them. It just a friend she says. We then spoke about our relationship and that a separation is the only way she can make up her mind. I feel like she is going to use it as an excuse to see/date other people. I told her i dont want to do that and she said a separation is just that, a seperation. Like a divorce but no papers. I am afraid that if she does see other people, it will cloud her decision making and judgment. We are not separating yet, but i feel it is soon. How do i approach it all and not make it worse.
Sep 13,
So, the week was going relatively smooth considering the situation. We were supposed to go out on a date tonight until disaster struck. I made the mistake of installing an app a few weeks back on her phone that would tell me would tell me who she was calling and texting and send it in the form of a text to my phone. It never worked so i didnt think nothing of it. When my W got home this evening, she said "you need to take whatever you put on my phone off right now. I was just about to text you and ask what the plans were for tonight and i saw this crap" I proceeded to apologize and explain to her that it was a while back and it never worked so i dismissed it. I was in a dark place and scared of what may be, her involved with another man. I took it off, and the night went on, talking normal in front of the kids, and eventually leading to me saying good night and i love you before bed.

Sep 14,
So today started of well, everything seemed to be back to the way it was since before the spy app thing. For the 1st time in a long time my 2 children and I went to church. I let her know that she is more than welcome to come, she said no and went to the gym instead. When we got back i went to a friends to change the oil in our car, all in all we got back home about 4hrs after we left for church and she was still not home. I tried not to panic but my mind was racing. She got home and I started to act a little clingy, hugging her, kissing her on the cheek, forehead, arm and such. It finally came to a point to where we sat and talked about the M, initiated by her. What it boils down to, is that she wants a separation to "figure things out". I told her that I do not think that separation is the solution to our situation, but I love you and respect you enough to give you what you feel you need. I reinstated my belief that separation should not be used to explore other options (OM), as this would cloud your mind with unfounded or misguided emotion. I told her I intended to use this time to re-evaluate myself and learn to become a better man, person,F father, and if god's willing a better husband for you. All this no matter what happens in our M. The S will not start until October or so, because she is visiting home, and starts a new location closer to our apt right now.
Sep 15
So today went pretty good. Today was her day off from work so she texted me while I was at work to ask if I could pick up my son from school today. I said yes that I don't mind. I did jokingly reply, "whats in it for me?" She replied, "a hung and thank you very much lol" Normally I would have responded with another joke text to try and bait her into some more playful convo, but I i just said, "lol, jk, yea i can pick him up, have fun shopping". She was heading to the mall to find an outfit to go out one last time with her friends from her current work location, before she moves to another one much closer to our apt. Whe sh got home I wa son the DB fourms reading, I got off and asked her how her day was and if she found anything for this weekend. Convo went pretty good. She said she bought me some new deodorant beccause she saw that i was running out. She said "look i got you this one this time" I smelled it and said it smelled good.

I opened the pantry door right behind her and threw away the little plastic cap that comes inside the lid. As soon as I turned arond, she grabbed me and pulled me towards her and hugged me really really tight. I was soo surprised! This hasnt happend in months. Of coourse I reciprocated, and went on for about 1 minute or so. We slowely pulled away from eachother, when we did, i looked into her eyes, smiled, then gave her a kiss on the lips it was over. Right afterwards she punched me in the chest playfully. I asked "dang girl what was that for?" She said, just cuz, it was getting awkard. I replied, "meanie". The night went on like it has been. Eventually we layed down for bed and talked for a while. I did my normal thing of huggin her, kissing here, telling her goodnight, and i love her, she responed just the same. It's days like this when it makes me feel good and that there is a glimmer of hope for me to hold on to.
Last night went well I think. When she got home, things continued as normal, casual convo, making jokes, and just general "roomate'ish circumstances. She went to work out with her best friend at the gym, and came home around pm. I was already asleep and when she layed in bed I woke up. I after about 5 mins or so, i rolled over and started to hug her and say goodnight. She came out of the covers and moved closer to me to give me a very intamte hug and we layed ther for a while. I then kissed her and said good nigth and i love you. She reciprocated just the same.

I am having a hard time with the whole detaching thing. I feel as if I were to show her no emotion, then she would take it as a sign of I am reverting back to my old ways and scare her off even more. I am struggling to find a balance between the two.

Another thing that bothers me is that I know she still uses the Kik app from time to time. I look at her gmail account and see the app in her list. I remove it, then it comes up again like she redownloaded it. I know I sholdnt be spying on her, but it is now a habbit I need to break. I never used to be that way until all this happened. I have been letting my fear and emotions control me. I am learning, slowly.

The last we talked, she did say that seeing other people, or getting emotionally involved with anyone is the last thing she's thinking about right now. Which does help put my mind at ease. I try to look at the silver lining, every time I confront her about anything, she has been brutally honest with me. She hasn't lied about anything. I try to view that as a good thing. I am choosing to believe her, but who knows how long I can last.

I am reading DR, and waiting on DB,5LL, and Hope for the separated to come in as well. I am firing on all cylinders to get this marriage turned around.

When she shows me the affection, I can't help but think that she is showing signs of maybe she is changing her mind about the separation, but I in no way ask or hint at that.
I have been slowly started to GAL. I've been spending a lot of time with my kids, working out. I vent to a friend of mine that has been goig through a similar situation. He tells me that as long as your hearts is in it, then you should keep truckin.

I want this marriage, but the fact that she is acting the was she does sometimes, makes me feel soo hopeless about her ever wanting to. The rare affection does comfort me, but I'm not sure how to interpret it sometimes. Is she letting her guard down? Is she missing me? Soo many variables and possibilities cause me soo much anxiety. But i put a smile on my face, around her and my kids, and go about my day.

I do have my bad days/moments when i just think and cry by myself. The pain is like nothing ive ever felt before.
So we texted a short while ago and I asked if she could pick up my son from school since I had a Dentist appt. She said ok. I then told her that I had a IC appointment @5 also and that she was more than welcome to come. She repsonded with "I dont know I'll letya know closer to time". I then said, "ok only if you are ready" She said "well i dont have anything much to say, so i dont know how much good it will do" I then said, Well if you would like to go by yourself, that would be ok too. Either way I understand and respect your descison.
She did not end up going to counseling with me or on her own. To be honest, I didn't expect her to. I was just tried to keep up hope that she would. The counseling was pretty good for me though. C said that it seems like some progress is being made, and that she seems as if W doesn't feel like I fully understand the pain she has felt. W has expressed to many times lately that she see's me as fake and my mew found attitude is not real.

C suggest that I begin to write a heartfelt letter describing and showing undertanding of the pain I have caused in the past. Becasue I am feeling that pain now, and I understand how she felt, the sorrow, the emptiness, the void in my heart.

I will start on it today, and I am to bring what I have in my next session next week.
So she went out with her friend last night, didn't get home til 430am. Obviously, my head went beserk. Why was she out soo long, what was she doing, who wasshe with?

Her friend, with whom i talk to about thw situation reasures me that nothing bad is happeneing. I trust her, as she only wants the best for us. I talk to her about once a week and she always seems to put my mind at ease.

On the other hand, our friends moved back to tex and my kids and i had dinner with them. With the children away from the table, we spoke about the situation. What was once her best friend is furious, she tells me that no woman "just has has sex with someone, a woman has an emotional bond with someone she lays with." maybe she doesnt tell her best friend because she knows she wouldn't agree? THIS scares this [censored] out of me. Is the OM that the affair happened with still involved?

She says it seems like she got a taste of something else and she wants to party and do it for a while longer before she decides on us, on her family.

I can't stand the idea of that. I refuse to believe that. I know my W, or do I?
So, last night things got interesting. My W and I were intamate.

We had a discussion about the state of our relationship earlier that day, and things still seem fairly bleek as far as the separation goes. I told her I did not want to leave, but I love her and respect he enough to give her what she needs.

It was def not the same as before though. It's almost as if we didnt know how to act(its been almost 3 months since we had sex), like we had to learn eachother again. I like to think that since this did happen, it's a step in the right direction.

Also, we were building a house when all this happened. She was not entirely on board because it was not reasonable for our income, but went along with it anyway because she knew that I wanted it. Needless to say, we are not getting it now.

However, I did mention to her that I will be looking for a house that is more reasonable for us. I told her I do not want family living in an apt forever, my kids are tired of living in an apt, and that she deserves better than that. I showed her some that I was looking at and she agreed that they were nice and she liked them. When I showed them to her, I said things like, "this is our room, this is where we could put your treadmill and weights, very big bathroom for your makeup, big garage for my tools" overall just included us as a family. She did not act negativley towards it. All this happened in the middle of the day before any intamcy.
Originally Posted By: mandown
So, last night things got interesting. My W and I were intamate.

It was def not the same as before though. It's almost as if we didnt know how to act(its been almost 3 months since we had sex), like we had to learn eachother again. I like to think that since this did happen, it's a step in the right direction.

Mandown, I don't mean to discourage you, and hope that this is actually a positive sign for you, but.....it isn't necessarily. H and I never stopped being intimate and it may mean something in the moment, but in the scheme of things it doesn't seem to make any difference. He's still moving out. Being intimate is my choice, others might make a different choice, but it's what I choose to do with the man I've been with for 26 years who still sleeps in my bed every night, and it's for me, not because I think it's going to save us. Now, having said that, once he moves out, then that part is over as well. Being intimate with a man I don't live with is not something I'm willing to do right now.
Well, what does comfort me is the fact that she does strictly affirm that there is no OM.

This is why I believe that it is a positive sign.

rppfl, coming from a woman's prospective, if you were the WAS, how would you handle it? Would you still feel the want/need to be intamate with your H?

Would you feel obligated? I feel this couples ith the fact that we are speaking of a home for the future brings about a positive vibe.
Originally Posted By: mandown

rppfl, coming from a woman's prospective, if you were the WAS, how would you handle it? Would you still feel the want/need to be intamate with your H?

Would you feel obligated?

This is a hard question and my answer may not be where your W is coming from. For me very personally, if I still lived in the home and there were no OM, then yes, I'd most likely continue to be intimate even if I were unhappy about other areas. Not because I felt obligated, but because I wanted to.

To me it sort of depends on what your s*x life was life beforehand. If it was good and frequent and something your W enjoyed, then why wouldn't she continue to want that? It's pleasurable and hopefully makes her feel loved, wanted, and safe. All good stuff. But it doesn't mean that's enough to overcome other problem areas. But again, that's just me.
I see. Well our sex life wasn't great. But It wasnt terrible either.

I dunno, I guess I'm just really trying to find the positive in all of this. Especially coupled with the fact we are speaking of moving into a new home. Maybe she is making plans with me in her future? Wouldnt it make sense for her not move foward with a new home for us?

I am now looking up ways to make our sexual encounters more pleasureable for her. I want to make sure it is the best it is the best it could possibly be for her.

I bought her a nightie that I plan on hanging up in the bathroom for when she went to take a shower before bed. Then I was going to have some soft music playing when she comes out, and apply some of the physical things Iíve looked into. This among other things to set the ďmoodĒ. This is somewhat of a 180 for me as I did not do these things very often. And by that I mean rarely.
I donít plan on doing this for a couple of days though. I donít want to make it seem as if Iím rushing her, but then again, it may seem like I anyway?

Then again, this is all assuming she wears the nightie out of the shower. That would be a sign I'd say?
mandown, have you read Divorce Remedy? What about 5 Languages of Love? If you haven't I would read them ASAP. If she is still receptive to your love and affection, you should be filling her emotional needs however you can, but without smothering her. I don't know your W, but most woman can't be emotionally fulfilled simply with great sex, while it can be a huge boost for lots of men. Is she still steadfast on separating in Oct? If she is, then the sex is almost certainly not going to "win her back". Figure out what her love languages are and start speaking them. If she seems to reject your love and affection, and she does move out, then it's LRT, Sandi's 37 Rules time for you.
Also, stop mind reading, for your own sanity. It's good to take stock of her reactions to your words and actions, to see what she likes and doesn't, but don't try to interpret them in the grand scheme of things. Seriously, read DR!
I wonder how the sex thing works when it's the opposite. Our sex life was always good in quality, but sparse in frequency. Many reasons why, but my drive was lower for a while. Since touch is one of his primary LLs, I understand this was one of the things that lead him to cheat (no drawn out affair, thank goodness).

I've been intimate with him many times since BD -- without expectation that it will change his mind, but figuring it wouldn't hurt, either (and I really wanted to!). It was enjoyable, but I do wonder how men process sex.
I have been reading DR and I'm about 2/3 of the way done. I just recieved 5LL in the mail on sat and will start reading ASAP.

Its hard to tell what she is really feeling about the S. We spoke about it that same day and she still was adamant about it. But not long after that, her mood changed to positive when we spoke of getting a house for us. Im getting mixed signals.

I'm hoping that my knowledge from DR and 5LL i can turn things around.

I speak to my DB coach today also, I'll see what she thinks
Originally Posted By: Two Sided Coin

I do wonder how men process sex.

In general, men are more comfortable with sex without emotional attachment and often gain attachment by having sex; women want to feel close, loved, appreciated before having sex. But that's a vast generalization. I think there are a variety of responses out there and it doesn't always fit neatly into gender categories.

Also, don't think that just because a man wants to have a lot of sex that touch is his primary LL. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Sex drive is not necessarily the same as LL, the 5LL book points that out.
A males sex drive is genetically coded. He is "wired" to desire sex more than an female so that he can "spread his seed".
RPP is right, men gain attachment from sex.
Mandown, I have been around the boards for a couple of years. My W left last December and our D is currently in progress. We were not intimate often during the last year of living together. She just didn't want me anymore.

I joined the boards about the same time as "Melissa". Her D is final now. Her sitch was different. They were intimate for a long time after bd. In the end it didnt matter.

The reason i mention my case and hers is that my W stopped having sex wigh me monghs before leaving while her H continued even after leaving. I think each case is unique. Personally, intimacy would have hurt me more in my case. I would have continued to feel attached and my W had made up her mind that she was gone. I think its really unique to each case oike i said. You have to be careful not to attach too much "meaning" or expectation. Things can still go wrong anyway. Good luck
I know that things may go south, i think what makes my sitch more positive IMO, is the fact that she is on board with moving foward with a nee home for our family.
So yesterday went well I think. I stayed gone most of the day woth work, dr appt, DB coaching call, and sitting down with the realtor. Didnt get hoe til around 7pm I did this purposefully as to not crowd her following the night before.

Following the advice of my coach, I do not want to seem transparent and seem too happy as to scare her away again. W was in a good mood, cheerful, and joking about.
Curious about the community's opinion on this. Since BD, W hasn't came out and said ILY on her own. But, she does not hesitate to reciprocate when I say it. Sometimes its less enthusiastic than I would like, but it's still there.

I say it, when i leave to work, and when we goto bed, and sometimes ill shoot her a text and wish here a good day amd ILY.

Should I slow down on this? I Just feel if I do not say it, then she may think that I dont care or that I am reverting to my old self. This has been a 180 for me, to continually express my love for her.

Detachment is hard for me, as you can see lol.
Do not to have any expectations of getting a response or especially a certain response with the things that you say.

It may seem to her that you are saying these things to fish for a response (and you are not accepting that response anyway) and not saying it because you mean it. Have no expectations.
And that is what I am hoping she see's, that I am saying them because I mean them. And that I am committed in the marriage.

Example, this morning before we both left for work/gym, she said "aww man, i dont have any gum, now my breathe is gonna smell like aminos(her amino acid supplement drink she takes before wokring out" I said, "dang that [censored]" and we both left. She walked me to my truck and kissed me and we both said I love you.

When I left, I decided tp do something nice and thoughtful. So instead of going rigth to work, I went to the gas station and bough a pack of gum for her, went back home and put a note on it that read, "hey beautiful, i hope you have an awesome day, I love you!" and set it in the bathroom by the sink since she takes a shower when she gets home.

When she got home she texted me and said "thanks for the gum" I replied your welcome and she said have a good day.

I never did things like this. But this is who I have become, total 180.
Needing positive energy today. Feeling kinda bummed.
One of those days where you feel the entirety of the sitch like it was brand new and it brings you whole day crashing down on top of you
So yesterday the offer we put in for a house was accepted! My boys are really excited about it!

I'm looking foward to moving into our new home and start a new chapter, hopefully this will be a change of scenery or pace for the W. I'm hoping it will be a sort of shock therapy.

I'm probably expecting too much, but in the end I'm doing it for my family whether she decides to stay or not. And that makes me feel good.
mandown, good news on the house! And glad to hear that you are doing it for you and the boys, no matter how it ends up with W. That's progress.
Originally Posted By: mandown
I know that things may go south, i think what makes my sitch more positive IMO, is the fact that she is on board with moving foward with a nee home for our family.

MD, I understand what you are saying. be careful. My W (STBXW) also was very interested in buying a new home, even though all the while she was seething inside. the thought process is that something "new and shiny" will "fix" it. it doesn't....I'm not trying to be a downer. Just my 2 cents smile
I dropped W off at the airport today. She is visiting family in south Texas, and its her sister baby shower. She was really nervous, she hates flying.

On the way to the airport we talked about her work, what she was gonna do with her family, and just overall good convo. We exchanged hugs, kisses, and I love you's. Then she went to her gate.

I did do something out of the ordinary for me. I put a simple greeting card in her check bag, so she can find it when she gets there. I wrote, "Have a great trip! Me and the boys will miss you. Eat some mexican food for us! I can't wait to see you when you get back, I love you."

I've never done a simple gesture like that. I just wanted to put her mind at ease, so that she dosen't have to worry about me us back home, or the R, and focus on having a good time with her fam.
Reading 5LL smile
So a bit of an update:

Things have been going fairly well I'd say. There is not as much tension in the air as before. Aside from a couple of minor setbacks, I think things are coming along well.

#1 W had a conversation with her trainer on the phone while I was laying in bed with her. W had to call him because his phone was acting up and she wan going to be able make it to trainig the next day. What bothered me about it was the fact that she was on the phone for almost 20 mins with him. First it was all about Why she couldn't come, then it was bout the fact that his phone [censored], and all "she"(not we) was T-Mobile and explaining to hime pricing. It just felt wierd because she laughed with him, and her tone was almost giddy at times. I felt soo insignificant. Its almost as if I was not there.

I wasn't going to say anything to her that night, no goodnight, no I love you, no hug and kiss. But after she got off the phone, she told me goodnight, so i reciprocated.
Sorry, forgot #2

So, a few days ago I did something knew I probably shouldnt have. She doesnt have a ring anymoe, so i bought her one.

I did not give it to her right away, I was going to wat for the right time. Things have been going really good, We have been laughing at times, she seems happier, she even returns my hugs and such with more emotion. For lack of a better term, it felt good. So this morning, I told her "I have something I've been wanting to give to you", I pulled the ring out of my pocket she said "why did you get this?". My heart sank.

To make a long story short, I told her because she is my wife and it makes me feel good, beacuse I listened to me heart and not my head. She said that she can't wear it right now, but when she is ready she will.

I know I shouldnt have done it, It goes against all DB'ing practices. It's rough. But I think I'm getting used to being let down and hurt. I doesn't effect me as long as it has been in the past, and that worries me to be honest.
Almost no traffic here. In need of some input. Wondring if I should start a new thread.
mandown, your recent post was more just journaling on your part. If you have specific questions that you include on your post, you'll find that you get more responses. (At least, that's what I've found.) Also, if you post on other people's threads, you are more likely to get responses to your own.

In terms of feedback, it sounds to me like you understand that giving her a ring right now was a mistake. No point in dwelling what's already done, but I would suggest you really work on detaching from now on. You are definitely not detached. If she wants to separate, now might be time for starting to go dark. Even though leaving her notes in her luggage is a 180 for you, now might not be the time to be doing that kind of thing. You are showing her that you are still available, she can take or leave you. You need to just focus on yourself, showing her that you're going to make the best of your life no matter what -- with or without her. THAT, my friend, is attractive. Desperation is not attractive. Pursuing her will not make you attractive in her eyes. I suggest reading Sandi's rules if you haven't already. That's what you need to be practicing right now, I'd think. Just a suggestion.
Originally Posted By: mandown
Curious about the community's opinion on this. Since BD, W hasn't came out and said ILY on her own. But, she does not hesitate to reciprocate when I say it. Sometimes its less enthusiastic than I would like, but it's still there.

Stop saying it. It's right there in the DB book(S) to NOT keep saying it, so why are you wondering? I mean, it's just Not done in your situation. IT's called pursuit and it's blatantly NOT giving her the space she asks for. "Space" isn't just a physical thing; it's also emotional and you are smothering her imo. Back off. Have you really read the DB books, or either of them? It's not really showing atm.

I say it, when i leave to work, and when we goto bed, and sometimes ill shoot her a text and wish here a good day amd ILY.

Wow, you sure do not get the whole "Detach" mantra. You need to "get it".

Should I slow down on this?

Slow down? No, just stop it completely until if and when she recommits to the marriage and or says it first..

I Just feel if I do not say it, then she may think that I dont care

I very seriously doubt this^^ b/c you are clearly very needy. Just learning a little self control (holding your tongue, Not pursuing her right now) would be nice b/c you really haven't yet showed her that you can...

or that I am reverting to my old self. This has been a 180 for me, to continually express my love for her.

Detachment is hard for me, as you can see lol.

GAL is key to detaching. Detaching will help You not smother her so much, and to Back Off. What are your GAL activities?
Originally Posted By: mandown
Sorry, forgot #2

So, a few days ago I did something knew I probably shouldnt have. She doesnt have a ring anymoe, so i bought her one.

A woman who isn't sure if she wants to be married to you now, who wants a separation, and you think you "probably shouldn't have" given it to her. Correct. Big mistake.

I did not give it to her right away, I was going to wat for the right time. Things have been going really good, We have been laughing at times, she seems happier, she even returns my hugs and such with more emotion. For lack of a better term, it felt good.

Yes I'm sure it did, but those are the words of a boy, not a man. Show some restraint. If you really want her to feel heard and respected, stop pushing for so much.
And make no mistake, that RING was not "just a gift", it's symbolic of a commitment she does NOT feel towards you. It's there to reassure YOU.
IF you wanted to Just get her a gift, a necklace would have worked without all the blatant strings attached that exist with RINGS.

Do you see that now?

So this morning, I told her "I have something I've been wanting to give to you", I pulled the ring out of my pocket she said "why did you get this?". My heart sank.

you obviously had expectations again and wanted "more now", and it backfired. LEARN from this.

To make a long story short, I told her because she is my wife and it makes me feel good,


beacuse I listened to me heart and not my head
. And you did not listen to HER either. She wants space and you won't stop following her around with your neediness. Back off.

She said that she can't wear it right now, but when she is ready she will.

She let you off easy. Be grateful and don't sulk or pout. Just please, read the books that form the basis of this site's philosophy so you don't make mistakes like this again and again. The DB "program can work IF you do the program.

I know I shouldnt have done it, It goes against all DB'ing practices. It's rough. But I think I'm getting used to being let down and hurt. I doesn't effect me as long as it has been in the past, and that worries me to be honest.

It's not just about you being let down. IT's about you ignoring what your wife has repeatedly asked for and it's about pushing your wife farther away from you.

I mean no offense with this next question, But Have you always been this needy? I wonder if it's the underlying problem you ought to be working on...just a thought.

Good luck.
At this point I urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. You really need the expert advice of someone who understands what you are going through and can really help guide you when approaching your wife. All the theories in the books and online suggestions will not give you the confidence you need when taking actions that immediately affect your situation. Please call me to discuss our Divorce Busting Program. 303-444-7004.
Ok, sorry for the long break. I needed time to compose myself in light of recent events.

yes I have read DR, and I am almost done with 5LL.

No i have not been this needy, this is what i have turned into. I know I need to get a grip on myself. To be honest, I have been forced to do so now.

Last week, I went to like a picture of hers on instagram, weird name pop up on there, so I clicked it. It was the OM she and and A with. We were in bed so i just had to leave the house and get some air. When i came back in , she asked whats wrong so i old her. She said well thats what i get for being nosy and her profile isn't private so she cant control who follows her.

A few days later, I was fine. I got over it and didn't let it bother me anymore. So on wed we closed on our house. She was in a great mood. We went back to the apt and chatted for a while, then she wantd to goto the mall. I stayed home so I could pick up my S7 from school.

While me and my S7 were at the grocery store, i sent her a snapchat. If you are familiat with Snapchat, then you know people can post snaps publicy and privately. She had a public snap or her and him taking selfie together IN OUR CAR, and it looks like he was in the driver seat!!!!!!

OMG I was enraged, sad, hurt....all of the above!!!

She was still talking to him! After I confronted her about it, she maintains that he is just a friend. I as like WTF really? I'm not stupid. I told her that the me and the kids are movong into the house and she cannot come. I contacted the OM'' gf and told her evrything. I took her car keys ad left her the old truck. I told her that they did not want to live with her, they told me they didnt. She was furious. My S11 tolder he did not want to. She is creating distance from them becaue she is always gone, doing who knows what and my kids sense the negative energy she puts off.

A few days later, eveything was ok in a sense that we knew what was about to happen. Fri night, the guy calls me. Apologizes to me for what happened, that they are just fiends and nothnig is going on and it happened one time when they were drunk, they just like talking to eachother, they are just friends. I told him that this isn some GF, it's my WIFE, and that he needs to cut that [censored] off!

As far as i can tell the did, I do not see anymore texts between eachother or nothing. But for all I know she will still find a way.

I'm getting to the point where I'm not sure how much more i can handle.

But I get weak and let her woo me back in, without her ecen trying. I just think of not being with her and I give in. I told her she can live with us, until she can figure out what she wants, she will likely live in a seperate room. I know I'm an idiot for letting that happen, but I'm weak to her.
i can feel myself getting stronger. I think what may have to happen is for me to remove myself from the house for a bit. I'm just afraid of what it will do to my kids.
While she is in the house should I just go dark? No text, not calls, only nescesarry convo? Should I leave the house in hopes of giving her the time and space she needs?
Well, here I am again, axiety ridden. She went out for her friends birthday last night(she told me about this several weeks ago).

I woke up around 5am to get ready for work and I hadn't heard from her(not that I should expect to). My anxiety took over and I snooped, this has been a problem for me. No contact with OM, but she did withdrawl $600 and paid $282 for a hotel. This is more than her paycheck......

I don't know what to think. I can't ask her about it, she will accuse me of being nosy.

I don't know if I should text her and ask her good morning. Of just wait til i get home and see if she is there. I'm heartsick of all this worrying I've been doing.

I know I need to detach, I have to a point. But I've turned into an emotional mess. As I stated before, I fear the only thing that may move things in any direction is a full on separation. I don't want to leave my kids, she doesn't want to leave them. I'm stuck.
bump, I need some advice. Im going crazy here,
Not sure of what to advise on this other than you've got to try and detach from this. If the money is coming from you then you need to set some boundaries

Go exercise - run or do something. If you burn enough physical energy the anxiety will reduce
The money is coming from her account, but this is not like her. Well at least not like what she used to be.

Just killing me that she could just turn into a totally different person seemingly in a matter of a day.

I know there has to be love somewhere in there, otherwise I'd have to belive she would be gone by now.

She does emphasize that if she knew she wanted out, I would know immediatley. I have times where i can completely detach, and the nex day I just wanna be mr. sopy. Total hell.
Hang in there - its hard but you'll be OK.
jim, Ive tossed the idea around of an in house separation. How is that working our for you? How does it affect your kids? I see that they are not too old so it can be dealt with differently than mine.

Just really unsure on how to proceed. My heart wants to keep pushing affection on her(been doing a better job at limiting that), and my head tells me to LRT. This constant confusion really takes its toll.
Have you read no more Mr nice guy? I only just have but its worth the read.

It talks about boundaries and respect and asks some good questions. If you don't respect yourself then how could you expect someone else to? Let me review your thread again and I'll try and I'll see if there is anything I can add.

In house seperation is hard because she is so hostile towards me. In some ways it makes the pain worse because she is ever present but then you already have that issue. My W knows she wants out so she feels trapped and is rallying against that and me. Having said all that it means I still get to see the kids everyday so I'm in no longer rush for her to leave (my D3 is finding this hard enough already and we haven't really told her yet)
OK recapped your thread. A few things jump out (all just my opinion)

First - reread what 25 said to you. Then read it again. You are driving yourself nuts and unless you can detach a bit more its going to keep hurting

A DB coach might be a good idea so that you can talk what your doing through. Finding an IC might be helpful for your anxiety (it helps me and I don't think there is any shame in asking for help).

After you've read DB, DR and 5LL. I would read NMMNG. You need to set some boundaries to protect yourself - that's definitely not the same as ultimatums - But you also need to respect hers. she has asked for space so give it (and no snooping). When your not doing that your letting your fear control you.

She will find confidence and self respect far more attractive and therefore is much more likely to want back in.

I'm no vet round here and making plenty of school boy errors myself but I hope this helps.

Good luck
I'll look into NMMNG. I have my good days and bad days. It's like I know for sure she is keeping certain things from me. I'm almost positive that she is still contacting that guy with the app, KIK. She is constantly texting or looking at her phone, she keeps it on her at all times, has a password on it and everything. [censored] drives me nuts. I want to confront her but I know it would make matters worse.

I haven't snooped since the last time. And I'm trying to get my mind off these things. I have been busy with moving into the new house.
If she is sleeping with someone else, how do you come back from something like that? If she is, she is soo emotionally attached with this person, I cant compete. Correct me if I'm wronf, If a woman is intamate with someone, they have som sort of emotional bond with them?
Happens to men too! How long has that been going on?

The only way to really break through the affair is to let it run its course and for her to see that person in all his flaws. You can't compete right now - not because you aren't better - but becasue you are up against a total fantasy life.

Trust me I tried to compete and lost.
Hi Mandown

Really sorry you find yourself here. Lots of relationships survive a partner sleeping with someone else, even if there is an emotional bond too. Around 65% of affairs end within 6 months (once that swept away 'in lurve' feeling reduces). Also, only around 3-5% of people who had affairs marry the AP, and of those around 75% end in divorce.

Contrast this with around 70% of relationships which survive affairs. I'm not saying it is easy - I'm certainly not finding it easy at the moment. But can you compete - Heck yes!

So, it is early days. Don't lose heart. Heed the advice from others on this forum, which is a lifesaver. Get working on yourself and your ability to detach and GAL (for the sake of your sanity and self respect.)...

Hang on in there, and very best of luck to you!
Zimmy, I'm sorry to hear that. To be honest, I kinda always knew thats what I had to do. But it just breaks my heart ya know.

Toots, those are interesting statistics. Really hope inspiring! But like you said it's really hard right now.
Need some advice. My wife left yesterday around 645pm and didnt return home til arounf 1015pm. Although not the reason for me being uneasy, it was a semi red flag for me. I tried my best to ignore it. Until she told me that she was going to a costume party saturday night, instead of going out withme and the kiddos. She is driving me nuts.

Although my detaching is slowly coming along, I did not want it to come this way. By her doing these things, I get hurt, then my hurt turns into anger and frustration. Then I withdraw from her, and create even more space between us.

It is becoming increasingly clear that the only way to help with my detaching is to become physically separated from her. This will probably create more anxiety for me, for not knowing what exactly is going on. But I fear this may be the only way. Maybe this will let her miss me? Create a want/need again? I'm just afraid of how this will effect the kids. Thoughts?
I forgot to add, last night when we laid fown for bed, she asked how my counseling went. She asked if the counselor knows everything. I told her yes. She also asked what does she say about it, i have nothing to hide from her so I told her.

IC asked how do I think I SHOULD feel about all this. I said I know I should feel like I need to leave. The iC asked, what do you feel and why do you stay. I responded, "Because I love her and I cannot see myself with anyone else" The IC said "that is reason enough to keep fighting"
Trying to get my mind off of all this. When your W says she wants to see othe people, it cuts like no other.
Ok so, i want to get some opinions on this. The following morning after our IC convo, i withdrew from her. I was gonna leave the house without saying goodbye. But then she said by and i responded. Later that morning, text convo went like this:

Me-I'm sorry for my mood this morning.

Her- It's fine...I understand...Trust me.

Me-For whatever my words are worth, I hope you find whatever it is you're seeking. Whether it be with me, him, or whomever. As much as it pains my heart, I truly wish to see you happy again, you deserve that much. Te amo para siempre.

Her-(my name) I'm sorry I'm making you hurt so much..I really do mean that

Me-I know it upsets you when I say this....but I know you understand why I ask. If it is truly your intentions to seek a relationship with this guy, please be honest with me. I'd be a fool to think you stopped talking to him. Although it will absolutely destroy me inside, I seek reassurance that you honestly don't know what it is you want. I wish i could turn off my anxiety, but I just can't unlove you. I beg you to not be upset with me.

Her-Omg (my name) really the last thing I'm worried about is a Damn relationship...seriously?!?...I told u our problems have nothing to do with anyone bottomnline...they are our problems and have been for years now (my name).....

I've had a similar conversation. The way I look at it is that yes there were long standing issues but the OM is her running away from them. If there wasn't OM I think my W would be more willing to work at it.

The attention OM has given her has woken something up inside that I wasn't triggering. So catalyst rather than cause
Here's whats crazy....i knkw know this may not be the smartest thing to do
but....like i said before i contacted the OM's "girlfriend"

When i found out about them still talking i just blindly did it to make someone else feel my pain. But to be honest, it helped me. We text every now and then, just to vent and help eachother cope with it all.

The crazy part is, he is apologizing for everything to her and too make a long story short, trying wo get her back. In a way i am relieved, but at the same time i am still worried.
Heard the same from my W .
It's not about OM it's about us but then Says she can't give up OM because they have fun together . I'm not sure going to a pub getting pissed is fun but to her it is.

I agree with jim the OM becomes a crutch /cushion / reason to leave .
I wonder how many OM get used to just give them a reason/catalyst to leave.
I should say that I do know I wasn't meeting her emotional needs. My W felt unloved and unsupported which is why she was open to OM in the first place
Yea, I know that is part of my whole sitch. Which is what kills me the most. i am ready and wiling to be there now. But she cant accept that right now.

But im curious of how the OM reaching out to his X is going to play into all this.
Originally Posted By: mandown
Yea, I know that is part of my whole sitch. Which is what kills me the most. i am ready and wiling to be there now. But she cant accept that right now.

But im curious of how the OM reaching out to his X is going to play into all this.

Could just be both of them cake eating .
Badly I suspect but that's not your issue so let it be.
When it comes to their R, I'm merely a spectator. Just an ear to listen, likewise she is the same for me.

As far as my W, it does concern me. Cake eating.....such an ugly feeling. But i know i can do nothing to tear her from the fog.

i am trying to slowly GAL outside of home, just soo hard when she decides to go out all the the time, and i dont want to leave the kids with a babysitter.
That's something you can deal with. Politely tell her you have plans for whenever and that she will need to watch the kids that night. Its respectful, courteous and not being a door mat
Well, W is going to a costume party tonight. Makes me sick....but damn. I cant do anything about it.

I really need to start almost ignoring the fact that I care soo much about her. I cam going to try and get out with some friends tonight
So, to recap my sitch:

W has A, BD, ILYBNILWY, stopped talking to OM. Discovered commuication between them. Reached out to OM GF(discovered that it was XGF) and she told his fam. OM cotacted me and said sorry for everything, and they will not talk anymore. OM is trying to reconnect with GF. VERY strong feeling that W is still talking to OM through an app called KIK. She keeps phone glued to her hip, and has password on phone. S7 and S12 know what is going on. W is always gone, and rarely spends time with them. She is constantly going out with "friends" and mostly does not come home. Affection is close to no existent, conversation is cordial between us.

My heart breaks more and more everyday. I fear the time has come to separate as LRT. However, I do not want to leave my kids in that environment. How do I go about asking her to leave? She will likely not be OK with it. Should I be the one to leave? I would still see the kids every day , I'd pick them up from school and stay home unitl W gets out of work. Any other options would be greatly appreciated.
You can't be the one to leave IMHO. She is walking away so she has to do the literal walking away.
I feel the same way. However, she has soo much power over me right now. I feel I will give in and leave for her.
Around 7 mos ago, I told my W that as long as she was in a relationship with OM (which she denied), I didn't think she should stay at the house. No way did I ever think she would actually move out, but she did. I think she realized that this was her decision and that it wasn't healthy for either one of us for her to remain at the house.

Obviously you know your W better than we do, but maybe she would agree she needs to be the one to leave??
Honestly, I'm just afraid that she will leave. I know it would be better for me to not see her for a while. just to help with detaching and GAL's. But I cannot stomach fact that she will be emotionally involved with someone else.

How is your sitch going tar? 7 mo's sep? Any progress?
I would have told my W to leave but she would refuse because she can't tolerate rented accommodation
Originally Posted By: mandown
How is your sitch going tar? 7 mo's sep? Any progress?

How much time do you have? laugh
Actually S over a year now. Lots of mistakes made along the way, but the one thing I don't regret is staying in the house (I actually moved back after we house shared for about 5 mos). I've proven to myself, the kids, W, etc that I can take care of a house by myself. As far as progress- we started MC, but W stopped and we appear to be headed towards D. Although I think W is now finally realizing she needs to work on herself, so I take that as a positive.

Wishing you the best, hang in there!
So, opinions needed. W went through my phone last night(that stopped after BD), she discovered that the OM's GF or XGF is still contacting me. All we really speak about is the my sitch and hers which is all part of the circle.

W said she "cant believe I am still talking to her" I told her that I needed someone to talk to, I have nothing to hide from her, she can see everything we tall about right there in my phone. It's all about how I love me W and how I'm hurting, and just advice on the whole sitch, coming from a semi unbiased woman.

W says, "you have plenty of friends to talk to" I tell her that I don't like telling them everything, it makes me feel insignificant, and I'm trying to protect her dignity with them. They are her friends too. She slept in my S7's room last night, partly because he was ill yesterday, but maybe not the whole reason?

So, why would she go through my phobe in the 1st place? Not that I mind, I have nothing to hide, I do not lie to her. But it struck me as weird, I thought she didn't care anymore. What is going through her head?
Thinking about suggestng a date night as well. Something new we haven't done. Not right away, but maybe in a couple of weeks, Maybe a comedy club, or Bachata lessons.
MAJOR SETBACK! Well, possibly a major setback.

Last night, around 230 am, I get up to use the bathroom. My phone dings, like an email or text, I think nothing of it, and continue to the bathroom. I get out and the W is standing on the opposite side of the bed with my phone in her hand. "someone is sending you coochie pics on your phone....." I said "WHAT?! are your serious? from who!?" She just kinda laughed and said " you are acting all high and mighty but you're still doing the same sh*t" I pleaded to her that I swear I don't know who that is.

I even told her to call the number and see who it was, to check the phone bill and see that it was the only time that number had ever texted me! It was a number I've never seen before! She then proceeded to look at the entire convo between me and the OM's XGF. She was upset because I was "telling her our business" She saw that I had expressed my hurt and longing to reconcile with my W, and was looking for nothing more than advice. I again said that I was regretful and did not think she would care, as she told me before. She was upset nonetheless.

She gave me the phone back and I called that number back right away. To make that short, this woman was trying to reach someone totally different than me! I made sure to have the phone loud enough for her to hear the convo. I like to think that she believed me, because when I had my infiidelity years ago, I would react totally different and not soo confident that I had nothing to worry about.

I talked a little bit more about how I dont know who it was and that was sorry for communicating to the XGF. And that the only person I want to talk to, doesnt want wo have anything to do with me. I told her that I love her, and only her, even though she may not love me. She repsponed "I never said I didn't love you, but it's just not as strong as it used to be"

To cut it short, I ended the convo on "It hurts me to see you soo hopeless about us, but I can understand why you would be, I just ask that you don't throw in the towel just yet....goodnight, I love you" She responed in the same.

On a side note: She did reiterate, albeit semi angrily, that she does not talk to the OM anymore. I have yet to come accross evidence to the contrary. Possibly due to no snooping?

I am scared that this may have been a major blow to my already minimally effective DB'ing efforts. Is there a way that I could have handled this better?
bump confused
"Is there a way that I could have handled this better?"

Yes. If it was a wrong number, you didn't have to beg for her to believe you. You should have just told her that it was a wrong number and that if she didn't believe you that she was more than welcome to check the phone records and call the person back. Then just walk away and go back to bed.
*sigh* I tried to not react based off of emotion. I was completely calm in the entire convo, did not raise my voice, or show any anger. More of a concern that she may not believe me. I am still semi pleased that it seems like she shows signs of jealous. A degree of jealousy is healthy on an R correct?
" More of a concern that she may not believe me. '

Why? Stop being so scared of doing the wrong thing.
Originally Posted By: mandown
I am still semi pleased that it seems like she shows signs of jealous. A degree of jealousy is healthy on an R correct?
I wouldn't read too much into that either way. She's been with you for 10 years. Even if she is currently contemplating S, part of her is still not going to be thrilled with the thought of you with OW. Try not to build your hopes up with mind reading like that. I have seen lots of little "good signs" along the way with my WAW, yet they have been mixed in with an unwavering desire to not commit to our M. Of course it's okay to have hope for your M, but don't build it solely on thoughts like that. You will only set yourself up for disappointment when she acts like a WAW again.
I guess the reason why I was concerned is because a I believe that my past has a lot to do with my current sitch. She has trouble believing that I have changed, and that I am continuing to change.

Last night, things got prety bad. To start, I called her best friend to get some advice on the date idea for Bachata lessons. When I called her she was at home.

When I talked to the W earier that day she was gonna go get balloons for my S's bday. She got out at 7....didnt come home until 1130....*sigh* I tried my hardest to not be concerned with it but damn, it got me. I woke up when she got home while she was blowing up the balloons. I just made casual convo about what she got him and such. She told me she went to eat with her best friend....my heart dropped be cause I knew she was lieing.

I told her I knew she didnt go with her, not becasue I was snooping, but because I was asking her friend for the advice and I put it together when she told me that she was with her. To top it off, she used my money to pay for it. The amount seems as if she paid for her and whoever she went with. I asked who it was, she said, I dont have to tell you.

She says that in her mind, we are separated, we talked about the R some, and I said that I do not want the separation, and i don't think that seeing other people will help anyone work on themselves. But she said she cant change the way she feels right now. After some more talking, I said I'm willing to move to my aunts for a few weeks, just to take the edge off of it all, and that I shouldnt be the one to have to move out since Im not the one unsure.

She said that she will move upstairs until she can build more clientel and figure something out. I continued to say that I did not want this, all I want is for her to accept my love, and not give up on us (I know a big no no, but the convo got really deep)

Whats crazy is that when she got ready for bed, she came into the room and said "do you want me to start liviing upstairs tonight?" I said "no". She got in bed, and long story short we ended up having sex. Kind of odd though, she sais "its just sex, if youre gonn **** me then **** me" I was surprised. Its almost as if she wanted me to take advatage of her, nothing too crazy, not like we havent done anything like that before. SHe seemed to really enjoy it.

What is going through her head? It seems like she is a WAW, with MLC and something else in her head. The roller coaster ride hurts!
Yea it seems like I have been doing that a lot lately, I read too much into it only to get my heart busted open.
Can a woman really be intamate with a man with whom she says she has no emotion towards?
mandown, my H did the same thing. Said he wanted out, initiated intimacy with me, took off his ring two days later and left to be with the OW. They are waffling in their minds and we are paying the price. Don't read anything into her intimacy with you. With my H, it didn't mean anything, apparently, and it certainly didn't make a difference.

If I were you, I would cut off intimacy though. She might be with OM and you don't want to risk an STD. You could just say, I think we should wait to be intimate at this time. When you pull away, it pulls her toward you. Just my two cents.
Originally Posted By: Ahoy
mandown, my H did the same thing. Said he wanted out, initiated intimacy with me, took off his ring two days later and left to be with the OW. They are waffling in their minds and we are paying the price. Don't read anything into her intimacy with you. With my H, it didn't mean anything, apparently, and it certainly didn't make a difference.

If I were you, I would cut off intimacy though. She might be with OM and you don't want to risk an STD. You could just say, I think we should wait to be intimate at this time. When you pull away, it pulls her toward you. Just my two cents.

I know i should be extra cautious about it. I have been doing better at pulling away, I try to do things away from the house or not be home when she gets there and such.

I haven't really initiated intamcy ya know, its her. She knows this was a HUGE thing for me prior BD. It's hard for me to turn off that part of me with her.
So this weekend passed and I spent most of it alone with the my boys. W spent some time with us on halloween, it was my S12's bday. Sat, she went told me towards the end of the day that she was spending the night at her friends house. Of course, I didn't want her to go, I asked her to stay with us. She said no. She then told me that she was going out Sunday again with her friend. I asked if she could stay with us and watch a movie at home or something. She is always gone every weekend.

I asked her once each time. When she said no, I left it alone. She did bait me into a R talk....I know, goes against DB'ing. She told me that in her mind, we are S....I replied with "our definitions of S are totally different. All I want is for you to not give up on me just yet." She replied with the usual, I'm not sure, I don't know story. The talk didn't last long. She said that she will save up money and move out. I told her that that's not what I wanted, but if she feel she must then I won't stop her.

When she got home last night, she asked if I wanted her to sleep upstairs, away from me. I replied with a no, I like having you next to me. I try my damnest to be a dgree of cold towards her, but when she is in front of me it's very hard.

I know I have stated thsis before, but I need to work on goig semi'dark. When my anxiety hits, I try to distract myself with somehting else. I tend to go around my kids to force me to no be soo sulky. I know it would not be wise for me to leave on a long term kind of deal. But, would it be a good idea to leave for a couple of weeks just to take the eadge off of things? I think that way my kids wouldn't be soo affected.
Did the same ol' thing yesterday. Picked up S7, went home, cleaned up a bit(still putting away stuff from move), cooked dinner for me and W for the rest of the week. I didn't text her all day. She got home around 730, she ate dinner and carried on a lite convo about her day and such. She is upset about the location she moved to(she works and an ULTA as an esthetician, has very little clientel here).

We wrapped up the convo, I then saud to her I was going to the gym, I didn't ask her, or really give her a chance to rebuttal with a disapproval. She just said "oh,....ok" I left for about 2 1/2 hrs. While at the gym,a young kid hurt his knee while we were playing bball and i posted something about it on FB. She texted me right away and asked if I hurt myself. Is that a good thing? Is she concerned for me?

When I returned home, she was not there. Right away, I though "oh hell, where could she be?!" After a few mins of wallowing in anxiety, I found myself washing the dishes and telling myself, "it doesnt matter where she is, theres nothing you can do about it, just shower and goto sleep."

She came home shortly after, and she had gone to the frocery store for a few things....Ugh, why am I such an over worried wreck right now. After we layed down, she played on Instagra, for a few mins, the she started to goto sleep. She turned over very close to me and said goodnight(I told my self I wasn't going to say it 1st) I replied and went to sleep.

In the morning, I woke up, got my stuff together, came back in the room and.....against my concious telling me not to, I went to her side of the bed and kissed her on the forehead and said "I'm leavin now" She replied with "I lover you, have good day"

I haven't spoken to her since, I am not going to initiate communication. When she get's home, I thougth about asking her if she wanted to goto the gym with me this evening(not in a lets's workout together way, but in a I'm going to the gym,do you want to come along kind of way), she loves going to the gym. Would that be considered pursuing?
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