Hi DB friends! Time for another new thread as my old one filled up with my babbling.
Old one:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484968&page=1Not much new to report. Been NC for a few days and haven't heard anything from WAH. Seems he is keeping his distance but I don't know why exactly. If you check out the end if my last thread he seems to have pulled away a bit after we had a little incident last weekend. And then I tried something different by being friendly and suggesting we spend time together next week. He didn't really respond so now I'll just stay NC and see if he comes back around.
Everything else is good. I'm busy with work and GAL. Going on a fun work trip for a few days. Was hoping WAH would notice and get curious like last time I went away but perhaps not as he seems irritated with me this week.
Hope all is well with you all!
Hugs, Lisa B
Seems he is keeping his distance but I don't know why exactly.
work at getting to where you 'dont care why'. When you reach that point, I think YOU will be a happier person, and your H will truly begin to reflect on his choices.
Still rooting for ya!
Lisa I had something insightful to say earlier but I was making dinner and it got away from me. However, I agree with pilot. You can make yourself crazy wondering what he's thinking.
Hi pilot Hi Maybell! Yeah so true. Don't care why... that would be nice. Maybe next month I'll be there.
You know these things oh back and forth. A few days ago I wasn't caring, then I do care and I'm sure in a few days it will flip flop again.
Thanks for checking in and saying hello! Hope you both are doing well!
Hugs,
Lisa
Feeling a bit surprised, no word from the WAH in 3 days. I think that is a first since BD. I can only guess he is reacting to last weekend, but as pilot says no point in agonizing over why. However there is a point in thinking about it, because we are always trying to do what works and supposed to be testing out different approaches. So I think whatever I did didn't work, or something else is going on in his life.
Not sure what it is but I guess eventually we will communicate and he may let me know. Knowing him, when he is mad he stays quiet for a while then eventually tries to talk. He already tried to have a talk with me about last weekend but I didn't react and just validated and said nothing. So it may be that and eventually he may try to talk. Or like I said it may be something else.
I'll be staying NC and if he ever reaches out again we will take it from there.
Hope everyone is having a good Friday!
Hugs, LisaB
Hang in there Lisa. Stay strong.
Lisa, it was clearly a big deal to him when he saw that at the party.
Is that entirely a bad thing? I don't think so. It wasn't calculated on your part. But maybe his silence is more complicated than just pouting.
I feel ya. Hugs.
I'm w/ Maybell on this one. Shock to the system. Not always bad.
Haven't heard anything from WAH in about 5 days which is definitely a record so far. On the other hand he also hasn't heard anything from me, although I have been 90% NC/only responding since BD so that is not exactly a new thing.
The interesting thing is that I find myself getting angry about his NC and wanting to fight back so to speak. I don't feel an urge to reach out and be friendly as much as I want to punish him for not talking to me. We are supposed to meet up in a few days to move some things out of the house. I want to cancel and do it without him. I find myself getting angry and annoyed.
I may still cancel and do it without him but I figure that is probably the wrong move. Looking back I have avoided about half of the opportunities to see him that I could have taken. Most of them were logistical things or times he wanted to stop by to pick up his things. But I have avoided him in the name of GAL and in the hopes that he would step up and just ask me out instead of possibly making excuses to see me. So I figure I should take the chance to show my terrific, sexy, happy self when I can. But wanting to appear to be GAL and my anger and frustration keep me from it.
Like I said, I don't really feel the urge to contact him for friendly reasons. His NC is angering me and I don't feel friendly toward him right now. But I do wonder about what pilot said on his thread. When does my silence become the new normal where he doesn't notice my absence any more? When does he say to himself "oh I guess she doesn't care to talk to me, I should move on?" I don't think we are there yet but I was wondering about it.
Hope everyone is having a good weekend!
Hugs, LisaB
So, I say, don't cancel any plans. You've got to show yourself off.
As for the anger, I get it. As much as things are going better in my situation, I still feel that way sometimes. Everything about this is frustrating...and probably 100 times more so in your situation.
So, angry solutions? Go for a run, do a kickboxing class at the gym, buy a punching bag, paint, play music (if you have an instrument and the ability), shut yourself in the car and scream at the top of your lungs, find comedy videos on YouTube, and...?
Hope that helps,
Joe
Let the meet up with him happen in a few days as planned. Take that time to show off your awesomeness. Remember, he needs to remember the good times with you and why he fell in love with you in the first place. You wont get that by ignoring him alone. Think of it as a teasing process. When you see him in a few days, be fun, be happy, be positive, be a tad flirty, then back to NC afterwards. It will confuse him, and make him think. Remember, he has to WANT to pursue you. So give him a reason.
Trust me, we all get the frustration you are feeling. I am there myself. It really helps to remember to think of this as a marathon, or a long process, and in the end, nothing you do today, or even at your meeting will provide a quick fix. Baby steps
Thanks guys. As usual - great advice. All day I had been thinking about how I never want to talk to him again and just want to cancel the plans for this week. But you are right, better to show off when I get a chance instead of avoiding him out of anger or punishment.
It's funny when I read these same kind of things on other's threads I always say the same advice you did.
Have a great day!
Hugs, Lisa
Yea its pretty easy to see how others should do things. But when it comes to ourselves, we like to screw things up the best we can
Hey y'all. Need to do a little venting for a minute...
I haven't heard from WAH in 5 or 6 days which is the longest we have ever gone without communicating in the entire time I have known him including since BD. This time has allowed me to think and ruminate over everything instead of wondering about how to reply to his latest text message.
The result has not been pretty. I keep thinking about OW and the disrespectful way he (they) treated me and how pathetic they are. I keep thinking about the person he has become and how I don't respect or like that person. He has disappointed me. I keep thinking about whether I really want him back or I just want to "win" for my ego. I keep wondering if I ever loved him at all or if I just loved how easy it was to be with him because he was kind, loving and loyal (all traits which are gone now). The person he has become is selfish, arrogant and stupid. There is no trace of humility. He thinks he is the king of the world. But I see the insecure person inside.
I'll admit that most of the time when I have thought of him in the past few days it was to wish horrible suffering upon him and the OW. Slimy venereal diseases, painful heartache, financial troubles. Not very nice, haha. Maybe I should get a voodoo doll. Every day I see his or her doppelganger on the street or in a restaurant and it reminds me how much I despise them.
I know these negative feelings are a somewhat normal part of the process. All in all my life is going pretty well. Work is good, my friends are great, family is being nice, things are mostly going my way. I am thankful for these things and for the most part am happily going about my days. I guess I just have to experience these hateful feelings to get to the other side.
Then today I finally heard from WAH to set up details about our moving day this week. He called instead of texting which is very unusual for him. Perhaps he figured out that texting would not go well. Literally the minute before he called I was about to cancel the plans due to my feelings of anger and disgust. I have to say he sounded very nervous or "tight" on the phone, not relaxed. I did my best to sound happy and relaxed but I did not ask how he was or be friendly at all.
I could ramble now about what might be going on in his head or why he hasn't communicated with me or why he sounded nervous or a million other things. But I have no idea and I'm not sure I should care.
Guess a lot of us have been going through this angry disgusted phase lately. Thanks for letting me vent. Stay tuned for more from the roller coaster.
Hugs, Lisa B
Lisa, vent away. This is a great place to do just that.
I keep thinking about whether I really want him back or I just want to "win" for my ego.
I thought this too, for a while. That I only wanted him back to "win" and perhaps for the pleasure of being the one to turn him down once he came crawling back. Now I'm not really sure I want him back at all, I'm still trying to figure that out. Weekends like this one make it hard to figure out, we had friends over last night, had a great time. I guess I don't understand why he would want to leave our life at all, it's pretty good, even now. Maybe when I stop trying to figure that part out it won't be so hard to let go.
Lisa,
Sometimes it's good to let it all out and I think your post was brutally honest. We all know it's not healthy to harbor anger and resentment. And no one wants to be bitter. That's a tough way to live. It can also be difficult to realize they were long gone before BD and that was a mere formality to them. It can make you feel a little silly (or at least I do )emembering things you said or did just a few days and or weeks prior to BD thinking everything was sailing along, huh? I understand and appreciate compassion and empathy, however sometimes we don't always feel it. It ebbs and flows I suppose
For me, I admit it was an ego blow. People who knew us both thought my stbxh out punted his coverage and he had it made. His new friends? They think I'm a boring, older, mommy hag-type. And I'm not, don't know them, so they are entitled to their beliefs.
Everyone gets there on their own time. Hang in there?
Lisa,
I've noticed that this roller coaster ride we refer to is really TWO roller coaster rides. There's the one we're put on by our WAHs that feels out of control and bumpy and jerking. Then there's our own ride that has its own ups and downs which often coincide with the WAH's bumps and jerks but sometimes they are very independent of each other.
Resentment and anger and disgust are a definite part of our own ride. They bring us low, sometimes for a long time, but they are a necessary part of the ride, because without them we can't learn the skills to bring ourselves out of THAT pain.
Through yoga I've learned that we all shy away from pain - for obvious reasons. What if we sat in the pain and simply observed it. Stop running from it. Look at it, feel it, let it permeate, watch it... it teaches us a lot when we do that.
I dont' see anything wrong with sitting in the resentment and anger and disgusted phase for as long as you need. Often it's not very long but know that it will come back. It's part of the ride. As long as it doesn't blacken your heart completely, feeling it is part of getting out of it.
A very wise labug recently said (paraphrase),
"Life has a lot of twists and turns but I get to decide how much I'm tossed around."
This spoke to me big time and I share it with you now because it's one of those things that, when I'm clouded by resentment and anger and disgust, I want to remind myself.
We can get off WAH's ride.
We can't get off our own. We can, however, decide to honor our pain, not waste it, put it to good use and allow it to motivate us which will level out some of those dips on our own personal roller coaster just a little bit.
Focus on the good things you have going right now. Put your energy there for now. Only good things can come of it.
(((hugs)))
Vent away Lisa. And good for you to recognize the roller coaster of emotions. You are feeling this way today. Tomorrow may be different. I find it best to NOT focus on the negatives our spouses have done, or continue to do. Doing so makes it so much harder to push through this already tough enough journey. At the same time, you cannot focus on the good times because that in itself makes it harder to be without them. Sooooooo..........focus on YOU!
ss is right. there are 2 roller coasters. Yours and his. sometimes they meet at the peak, and things are good. sometimes at the bottom and things are really bad. and other times, one is high while the other is low. then things are just confusing!!!
Hi ladies and pilot, thanks for checking in and reading my ranting.
Georgiabelle, you are right about the way the WAS surprised us, but they had checked out long before. Thus their idiotic decisions and behaviors seemed to them quite ok. Cue the fog...
Ss, I hear you about the two rides. So true. I feel like the hating ride I am on now is my own. And I agree that sometimes you have to sit with the negativity until it passes on. Thanks for the wisdom from labug.
I feel WAH and OW deserve my angry disgust now and perhaps someday soon they will earn my pity. And then I can truly move past it.
Pilot, I agree it is best not to focus on the negative, whether with this WAH nonsense or with anything else for that matter. Lately I just feel negative about him and I can't see any use in holding on to such a crappy, stupid person. However, I know if he does something nice or even if I just see him and he makes me smile that I will be glad I have been keeping cool and DBing instead of burning his house down and punching OW in the face. Repeatedly.
Violent much? haha!
Gosh I hope his house doesn't happen to burn down and then the internet police come look for me. Yikes.
Thanks again my friends. Have a good day!
Hugs, Lisa
Lisa, I've been getting a LOT of advice to just let go for the last few weeks. I couldn't do it. Finally I rephrased: I need to step away to heal. I just can't deal with the crazy anymore. And there's so much good in my life -- in fact, almost EVERY area of my life except my marriage is really, really good right now. I have a lot to be happy about.
Why worry about giving him the head space that will do little more than damage your ability to enjoy the great things in your life?
I say that today. I know you've seen my threads to know it was a process to get there. It is worth it. Please don't waste your time on disgust or pity for your H. The OW is absolutely beneath your notice. Don't hold onto a crappy, stupid person. Just acknowledge that's who he is now and if he ever comes back to you having done his own 180s, you can decide then if the good outweighs the bad.
The question underpinning your (entirely understandable) rant is "how can I get him back?" THAT OUGHT TO BE HIS QUESTION OF YOU. Until it is, put him aside. Step back and give yourself space to heal. Or let go. Or whatever phrasing gets you to a place where you make your own choices rather than, as you note, reacting to every little thing (including each day's silence).
I'm feeling quiet and serious today so I apologize for the tone of my posting here. I wish you all the best.
Hi Maybell,
Thank you so much for your wise words. I know you have been struggling with similar questions with your H. I really appreciate your insights.
I guess in a way realizing that he is (is being?) a crappy stupid person is at least a good first step. I have been so wrapped up in the day to day rollercoaster that I hadn't really stopped to think if he was an [censored] or not.
Maybe now that I have embraced my anger and disgust I can soon move on to really letting go and not caring.
I think someone else's thread was recently discussing how venting can be good and bad. I had a conversation yesterday with a friend about all the BS that has been going on with H and OW and I think that conversation got me a bit worked up. Probably at this point instead of venting to friends I need to just stop and tell them it is all good and I'm over it. People love a good bit of scandal and gossip and they egg you on with negative emotions. They have good intentions but the outcome is not positive.
It's funny how you can get a lot of good advice but until you get to the right place you cannot fully implement it. I give myself the advice to let go, detach, etc etc. I think maybe you have to go through the chaotic journey until you finally are able to reach that wonderful detached place. At least that has been my experience with past relationship woes.
Thanks everyone for the advice and support. Feeling better now!
Hugs, Lisa
Despite all the negative emotions, keep doing all you have been doing. When/if he comes out of the fog, you may see the good him again. Besides, everything you're doing is for a better you, no matter what he does.
You'll know when it's really time to drop the rope.
Hi DB friends, I'd love your words of wisdom and support.
I'm meeting with the WAH tomorrow to do some moving. I am not looking forward to it at all.
I feel a lot of anger toward him lately. When I think of him I want to yell at him and tell him what a horrible, pathetic, selfish person he has been. So I am hoping that I can hold it together tomorrow through the moving process which will take a few hours.
To make matters worse, I just saw that he sent me a text message last week that for some reason did not go through until now. It was about the kissing incident from the week prior.
He said that he is angry. But not about me kissing someone but the fact that he thinks I did it on purpose. He asked if it was "payback". He said "I am a little disappointed by what you did".
The message infuriated me. First of all, that he had to let me know he was angry but didn't care AT ALL that I was kissing someone but only that I did it purposefully to make him upset.
Now as I write this I see that this doesn't even make any sense. He is mad because he thinks I tried to make him mad? huh? This is some circular logic. It also does not mesh with the way he was behaving that night flirting and like we were best friends.
But now I am mad. haha. If he is "a little disappointed" I am hugely disappointed so where does that leave us.
Luckily I did not see the message until now or surely I would have responded and we would have had a huge fight. Thank you universe for looking out for me. And now I know why I haven't heard from him in a week.
DB friends what do you think of his message? And do you have any advice for a response from me as I am sure he will bring it up tomorrow.
I really really want to cancel. I am so full of hate for him right now I just cannot imagine being nice and friendly.
Advice? Help!
Hugs, Lisa
Lisa, drop it! The anger will pass. The main thing I have to tell myself when I'm feeling angry is -- it's not doing me any good, and it will certainly make the situation worse with H. Put on a happy face, don't respond to his text -- that's in the past --, and "fake it 'til you make it."
Go forward with the moving -- if you cancel, he will read anger and resentment, and that could build for both of you. Think of it this way: it will be good to get his stuff out of the house if you are angry with him. Fewer reminders!
I personally am happy to have my H's stuff gone. I've even gone so far as to throw away stuff that I own that reminds me of him (cards, wedding dress, clothes, pictures). Maybe that's extreme, but I can tell you that it helped me.
So think of moving as a chance for you to have more space from him -- physically and emotionally. You just have to make it through the process.
Thanks Ahoy, you are right that canceling will show I am mad. And I am mad.
I know that he will bring up the text and the incident tomorrow. I plan to let him talk and my replies will be along the lines of "I'm sorry that it irritated you, I didn't do it on purpose, I didn't know you were watching, it had nothing to do with you".
I feel extremely lucky that I did not see the message. It explains why I haven't heard from him in a week and why when he called the other day he sounded nervous and tense. He was probably wondering why I did not respond to his angry text and expecting that I was now also angry. He probably expected that I would tell him to F off. But I was friendly and normal. Luckily.
It miffs me that he says he is angry because I did it on purpose but makes it clear that he doesn't care that I kissed someone in front of him. Seriously?
Gah!
Obviously he cares or he wouldn't be angry about it! (If you didn't care about someone, would you care if they kissed someone else?) Don't believe anything they say, right?
Even if he is upset that you are kissing someone else doesn't mean he wants to come back to the R though.
It's a tough bind.
Lisa,
Let me see if I can help clear things up a bit for you. First, forget the words your H said. He is upset at you kissing another guy. That much is clear. He is upset because he was not emotionally prepared to see it, or to deal with YOU moving on to another person as he has. It stings. It probably would sting any WAS to watch their spouse with another person. Just human nature. What your H is trying to do is push blame, or make YOU feel bad for your actions. Maybe as an attempt for him to further justify his own actions.
As for what to say IF he brings it up, I would be calm, but honest. If he asks if it was payback, then ask him payback for what? Appear confused that he would even suggest it. YOU did not kiss this guy. The guy kissed you. You just got caught up in the moment. He was a nice guy, a hot guy, and he was making you happy. You acted like any single girl would have under the circumstances. You can apologize to him if it hurt him, and say it was not your intent. Tell him it has been exciting with all the attention other guys are paying and if your new 'single life' upsets him, that in the future, you will try to keep it from him so he is not hurt in the future. Your assumption all along was that he was ok with you moving on since he was the one who sent you on your way. No malicious intent involved.
But do not cancel your scheduled time. Remember no matter what, keep your PMA at 100%. He will probably want to suck you into a fight, to help remind him of why he pushed you away. Be cheerful, exciting, and if you MUST get away to avoid fighting, just calmly let him know you have made prior plans with a new friend, and you do not want to be late, so you need to start getting ready. Do not give any details if he asks, just say out, or early drinks, coffee, dinner, etc.
One last thing. You do NOT know for sure the unanswered text is why he has not contacted you. There could be a million reasons why. It is possible, but you do not know...
Thanks pilot and Ahoy!
Good points! As I had some time to cool down I realized that my best plan is to PMA all the way. He will bring it up I am 99% sure. I will listen to his complaints and like pilot said just validate and act innocent about it. I realized that indeed he is trying to start an argument over this, and also to justify his own crappy behavior he is saying that I am a jerk. I honestly did not do it to piss him off and I didn't know he was watching.
I like the advice to say "payback for what"? haha. Sorry honey, payback would be sleeping with your best friend in front of you and then saying I'm in love with him and never loved you. Briefly kissing some random guy is not even close to payback.
As I had a bit more time to think I feel that he is upset about the kissing even though he is saying that he is just mad that I am trying to make him mad... What???
It made him angry for whatever reason when it happened, then he thought about it for a while and probably talked to his "friends" and they told him "oh she did it on purpose to upset you" and then he got mad about that.
I don't think that he didn't contact me because of the missed text message but I see that he was angry and that was probably why he wasn't being his chatty self this week. Of course other factors are always at play but clearly he is angry. He brought this up three times already saying he is angry about it, therefore I think it is safe to assume. Not that it matters, it was nice to have a break from his pointless contacting actually.
Tomorrow will be a challenge but when I know what my plan is I do better. And my plan is follow your advice. PMA, cheerful, innocent, calm, confident. Validate and listen. As long as I can maintain that he can't start a fight no matter what.
As much as I have been wanting to beat him to a pulp lately, I realize that being angry and mean is not going to accomplish anything. No matter what the future holds, maintaining my composure and dignity is more important than telling him he is a jerk. He won't hear it anyway.
Thanks very much for your words of wisdom!
Hugs, Lisa
Lisa ... looks like you are on the right track. I had a similar issue recently .. went out to dinner with some old friends of mine ... nothing at all but catching up and dinner, just so happened all 3 of these friends were women. WAW was not happy, in fact she was very upset that I was out with 3 women... regardless of the relationship... like you I was WTF I did not say IDLY nor did I sleep with any of these women and shove your face in it. She was upset I went on a "date" with them .... I simply validated, told her I was sorry she felt that way (At the same time this was a great GAL moment for her to see I was moving on with my life) ... this .. like your sitch most likely confused the WAS... and that's what we are trying to do here, make them think about it, your H was not ready to see that ... accident or not ... and those emotions mean something ... if he was 100% checked out her would have shrugged it off and went about his day.
Stay positive, be mysterious, GAL .. 180 your tail off.
Thanks CaliGuy! That's a great story that shows how crazy these WAS are...
I just met with a mutual friend of WAH and me. She and her BF are old friends of H. She said that my H had told her boyfriend that he didn't care at all that he saw me kiss the guy but that it was rude of me. He also told the friend that things are not going well with the OW, although he still has strong feelings for her. He admitted that she was probably a rebound but that he likes her "better" than me, that she is more attractive than me in many ways - prettier, smarter, funnier. She wasn't a rebound because she was better... But she isn't interested in a relationship so he is moving on to dating other women. My friend said that he claims he doesn't have anything but friendly feelings toward me and doesn't miss me at all.
I would say that his behavior somewhat refutes these statements but who knows. Maybe he thinks that he is being a "good friend" by contacting me all the time and being upset when I don't want to see him. Who knows.
Not looking forward to seeing him tomorrow. Not one bit!
Hugs, Lisa
Ouch. Sorry you had to hear those things. That sure stings.
But I'll be honest. .. I don't think it was kind of this"friend" to tell you these things, And if it were me, I would avoid this person. I mean, who needs to hear things like that, even if they are "true"? Ugh. (And remember--believe none of what they say, or something like that)...
Please find someone or something to remind you of how wonderful you are... stat! (Seriously-- what did this "friend" say **after** the words, "he said she is better than you" ??)
I agree with Claire. Who would say all that? Plus, your H KNOWS they're going to talk to you at some point so do you think he's really going to divulge that he's only kind of happy with OW or that she's only OK-pretty or moderately smart? No, of course not. He's going to play up his "new life" as much as possible so people don't say or think "Dude, you're nuts. You left her for crap? Why?".
Ignore it. It's just filtered BS through your friends. It's still him. Ignore it.
Lisa,
Remember, your H HAS to say those things about OW to justify what he has done. Do you really think he would say to his friend "My W is much hotter, prettier, smarter, etc, than OW, but I decided to drop it down a notch because I got disillusioned?" Of course not. He has to justify to his friends, and more importantly, himself that what he did was right. He clearly is having second thoughts. I promise you that. His relationship with OW is on the way out. So who cares how great H makes OW out to be, truth of the matter is OW does not want your H. It will only be a matter of time before OW is on the receiving end of being uglier, dumber, etc.
You yourself know your characteristics outdo OW. For the simple fact that OW was willing to screw around with a M man tells you that you are a better person. Most men seem to have A with women 'below' their W. By that I mean not as attractive, not as smart, not as funny. Remember, he married YOU for these qualities. He was seeking something different.
Now your friend who told you all of this is kinda rude for saying it to you. Granted, you cannot shoot the messenger, but there is definitely a proper way to say these things. I myself was just on the receiving end of a 'friend of hers' telling me stuff, and the same thing...what she told this friend just did not make sense. Also since my W has not been open and honest with ANYONE including her parents through out this ordeal, why would this random friend be the only one privy to such inside info from her. I suspect the same goes with your H and this person.
I know it is tough. When I heard all of this, it put me in a funk for about a week. It stings and it rips at your gut, so I understand. But please learn from me that you really just need to brush this aside. It means nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Keep your chin up girl! You are a rockstar and he is just a groupie. Treat him as such!
Thanks for your kind words everyone. I was feeling really down.
Indeed it was not nice to hear these things, but I think my friend thought she was helping by telling me the truth. She is one of those brutally honest people who doesn't think much before she speaks. And of course I summarized a bit as well.
Since I was friends with the OW, I actually know how pretty, smart and funny she is. Very. We are a lot alike in fact. I wouldn't say she is better than me, she is she and I am me. She is definitely better looking since she is practically still a teenager. But I know that doesn't matter, and it doesn't even bother me that much.
I am more bothered by the claims of my H that he does not miss me and only thinks of me in a friendly way. Maybe I am insane, but I just don't believe it. Perhaps he believes that is how he feels, since he is deep in the fog. But for the most part his behavior toward me is not that of a friendly guy who doesn't miss me. I'm not saying he is pursuing me, but I don't think he is over me as he claims. It still hurts to hear it.
I've got to pull myself together for the moving day and be happy, relaxed and show off my GAL and 180. It's not going to be easy to be friendly and happy. My heart is heavy.
Thanks again for your support and kind words everyone. They help a lot.
Hugs, LisaB
NONONONONONONO
Quit believing what your H tells someone ELSE!!!
How many guys tell their friends they got to 1st 2nd or 3rd base on a date when they got nowhere? How many guys tell their friends 'oh, I was not interested in her so I wont ask her out again' when the truth is she will not give him the time of day and he begged!
GUYS TELL A STORY TO SAVE THEIR EGO!!!
Go with what you know. At the party, your H CHOSE to follow you around. He chose to try to get in between you and others. Your H could have, IF he did not miss you, chose to spend his time with others at the party. But he chose YOU!!!
Do not let this get you down. Remember how you felt a few days ago. That was real. What you feel now is based on false information.
Cheer up!!
Thank you pilot for the pep talk!
Well, WAH and I had our moving morning together. It was actually nice. haha. Of course you probably knew I'd say that, didn't you my friends.
I tried to put aside my anger, my hate, my sadness.. and just be positive and happy and show off my 180s.
I ended up bringing up the kissing incident and we had a short convo about it. I simply said I didn't do it purposely but that I could see how he would take it the wrong way. He said he didn't think I did it purposely but "some girls" he told said that for sure I was trying to get back at him, because that is what they would do. HA. So he told OW and other girls he is dating about this...? Funny. Whatever. I just said calmly that I don't know who these girls are and maybe they would do that but it is immature and I wouldn't do that. haha, got a little dig in there.
Anyway, that passed over uneventfully. We did our moving, we had some food, I saw his new house. I even jumped on his bed.
He was friendly but distant the whole time. It felt very friend zone. I did sit close to him to show him some photos on my phone. I was cool about it, very harmless, but after a few minutes he seemed to get uncomfortable for some reason and got up. Maybe unrelated.
Before BD we were always holding hands when walking together. It feels strange to me to walk next to him and not grab his hand. I notice now he often shoves his hands in his pockets when walking beside me. Awkward.
After we finished he gave me a ride home. An hour later he sent me a text thanking me for my help. Funny because he helped me move at the same time too so he doesn't need to thank me. So that was nice, and unexpected.
So here I am again with PMA. Up and down. I'm happy with the ups! I'm not sure what is going on in his wacky brain. I don't really believe anything I heard and I don't really know what to believe. I honestly think he is in a confused fog and does not even know how he feels.
Thanks again for your support everyone.
Big hug, Lisa
So here I am again with PMA. Up and down. I'm happy with the ups! I'm not sure what is going on in his wacky brain. I don't really believe anything I heard and I don't really know what to believe. I honestly think he is in a confused fog and does not even know how he feels.
This is what you should focus on. You do NOT know what is going on in his brain, and of course he is still in his fog. But HE clearly had a good day with you today, and that will remain an impression in that messed up little head of his. Your H may have the same thoughts others here have suggested about my W in that perhaps they think there is no easy road home and is it even worth their emotional vulnerability to try? Not saying my W is there for sure, but I can certainly see how others might.
My 180 from the past few weeks, and maybe yours too, should be how can we continue our PMA, GAL, as well as show the pathway home is not as bad as it might seem. Not an easy path for sure, but not an impassible road either.
You sound like you had a great day and I am happy for you. Do not mind read into the little things he did or didnt do (get up after a bit while looking at photos or hand holding). There could be a million reasons, both positive and negative. In the end, take today for what it was. A good, good day for you.
Hi pilot, too funny! I just went for a jog. While I was jogging a random thought came into my head. Hmmm.. if he admits to himself or others that he still has feelings for me and maybe made a mistake, wouldn't that be really difficult? I mean, it would basically mean that he has to admit that he was wrong and that he really screwed up. And that would be really difficult to do.
I'm not even talking about admitting it to me, just to himself.
Then I returned home and read your post. And it sounds like you are saying something similar. Of course I have no idea what is going on in his head but IF he did happen to have uncertain thoughts, have I made it seem an impossibility?
Or is the hurdle too high to jump over?
The follow up question is: how to balance NC, GAL and all that with keeping the path open? How do I seem like I have moved on but still keep that candle in the window for him to see?
The answer might be to be mysterious. Go ahead and GAL, go ahead and not contact them, be happy and friendly when you do talk, but don't wave in their face that you are dating someone else. I guess you pilot have learned this in your situation with the LF.
I guess the answer is to have your own life but be friendly to them. My question about that is how friendly? It's very possible that my H just wants to be friends, which I don't want at this point. So if he wants to chat or spend time with me, how do I stay open to it without being too open...? Or is being friends really a bad idea?
One difference between a friend and a person of interest might be to always leave them wanting more.
Lots of questions today. Anyone have answers?
Hugs, Lisa
Oh and by the way pilot I found your comment about guys telling stories to be so interesting. I always wondered about this as most girls will tell their girlfriends all the embarrassing details in order to get advice or sympathy.
Very early in my relationship with H when things were uncertain he was telling his friends that he didn't care at all about me and didn't want a relationship with me. But oddly, he was begging me to be with him and I was the one saying I wasn't interested in more. I always found it strange that he would tell his friends that he wasn't into me when he clearly was, all the world could see his behavior. I guess that explains it. Thanks pilot!
If I only had as good of advice for myself....haha
Thanks for checking in on me pilot! Not much to report.
After our day moving together the WAH has been texting friendly but just chatting not saying much. He did give me an excellent compliment related to one of my GAL/180 activities so I feel good about that.
He left one last thing at my house so he came to pick it up. Interestingly he called instead of texting. Wonder why, that is definitely something different and this is now the 3rd time he has done that.
Instead of my usual being out when he came by I made a point to be there. He smelled like booze I think, and this is the 3rd time I've seen him when I detect the smell of a hangover. This is somewhat new for him, he seems to be drinking and partying more than when we were together. Usually he goes for a hug. This time nothing. Me either. I wonder if I am in the friend zone. Before he arrived I said I was heading out soon. I'm not sure if I rushed him on his way but he seemed to be in a hurry.
The last two times I saw him he had his work bag with him. Since both times he was (likely) not headed to or from work, I assume he did not go home the night before (plus there was the booze smell) and that is why he has his work bag with him. I mentioned it this time and he said he was headed to work (on Saturday). Not sure if I believe him. It doesn't matter but is just interesting.
There were a few other times recently that I think he lied or tried to deflect when I noticed something related to him dating. For example, I commented on all the wine bottles at his house and he deflected and said something about how his mom was there and drank a lot. (max 1 bottle so what about the other 9?) I also noticed cigarette butts on his balcony and he said "oh they are probably from the workers" (do the workers wear red lipstick?). The cigs could also be from his sister, she smokes. But the unlikely comment about the workers makes me think he is knowingly covering up a date.
It might sound like I am complaining about these things, I'm not. I also didn't mention these things to him in an accusatory way, just casual conversation. I find it interesting that when I comment on something clearly related to him dating he lies or deflects so as to pretend it is something else. I wonder why he does this as he has told me straight out that he is dating, and thinks I am too. It seems he either does not want to upset me or does not want me to know. Don't know why.
So yeah, nothing much to report.
Now that his stuff isn't at my house anymore he doesn't have that excuse to contact me. So it will be interesting to see what happens. Now if he wants to see me he will either have to come up with a reason or just ask me to hang out. We'll see. I'm going to continue to do what was working before which is NC unless he contacts me, then reply friendly.
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Hugs, Lisa
Thanks for checking in on me pilot! Not much to report.
After our day moving together the WAH has been texting friendly but just chatting not saying much. He did give me an excellent compliment related to one of my GAL/180 activities so I feel good about that.
Great! This is a good positive.
He left one last thing at my house so he came to pick it up. Interestingly he called instead of texting. Wonder why, that is definitely something different and this is now the 3rd time he has done that.
no way of knowing why. But again, a positive he called.
The last two times I saw him he had his work bag with him. Since both times he was (likely) not headed to or from work, I assume he did not go home the night before (plus there was the booze smell) and that is why he has his work bag with him. I mentioned it this time and he said he was headed to work (on Saturday). Not sure if I believe him. It doesn't matter but is just interesting.
You are letting negative emotions create scenarios and doubt. Since you do not know for sure his work schedule, he could very well be telling the truth. Making assumptions otherwise just affects your mood and behavior negatively.
There were a few other times recently that I think he lied or tried to deflect when I noticed something related to him dating. For example, I commented on all the wine bottles at his house and he deflected and said something about how his mom was there and drank a lot. (max 1 bottle so what about the other 9?) I also noticed cigarette butts on his balcony and he said "oh they are probably from the workers" (do the workers wear red lipstick?). The cigs could also be from his sister, she smokes. But the unlikely comment about the workers makes me think he is knowingly covering up a date.
Ok, be really careful about assumptions on this. I know you are not making hard assumptions but just journalling. But I want you to consider, well, me and my actions compared to your H on this. You want to think your H is having dates at his house because there is lipstick on cigarettes and wine and beer bottles he does not want to explain. It is very likely your H was not having date nights but had friends over. He may have not wanted to have to explain that to you because he was afraid of how you would take it. He may have had NOTHING date related, but knew there was circumstantial evidence laying around which would cause you to THINK he was, and therefore wanted your mind to wander (much as I did with my W and you did to your H) Or he may have had a date, but regrets you finding out about it or wants to keep you from knowing about it as much as possible for any number of reasons. Just think of what YOU would have said 2 weeks ago if you had a few random friends over (guys included) and your H saw bottles and other assorted things around your place and asked you about it. How would you have played that off?
Now that his stuff isn't at my house anymore he doesn't have that excuse to contact me. So it will be interesting to see what happens. Now if he wants to see me he will either have to come up with a reason or just ask me to hang out. We'll see. I'm going to continue to do what was working before which is NC unless he contacts me, then reply friendly.
I am sure he will continue contact with you. Your H does not in any way seem ready to walk away from you completely. He obviously still has feelings for you based on prior interactions with him. It will be interesting on how he choses to initiate contact with you. Just make sure your road home looks smooth enough to help him make that contact.
Have a great weekend!
Thanks pilot! You are the best as usual!
Good points you make there. I know he has had dates over to his house, yes, indeed I know for a fact. But he doesn't know I know. He is sleeping with one woman he met online and OW still I believe and possibly more. So hence all my assumptions. But honestly as you say I was mostly just sharing and really there is nothing I can do about it so I don't really let it bother me.
His mom gave me a gift just a few months ago, a photo for the wall that says "home is where the heart is". Shortly after BD I put it away in his boxes. I am pretty sure you can see why I wouldn't want this anymore... Apparently he found it when unpacking. He sent me an email with a photo of it and "ahem". WTF. How am I supposed to reply to that?
Can he really be so clueless? "Ahem"? what the f... I don't even know what that means.
Any ideas? I guess I can ignore it but I am not sure if that sends a negative message?
Hugs, LisaB
Totally ignore it. What on earth could you say? Nothing constructive. Nor was his email constructive or even remotely showing emotional intelligence. Let it go.
You sound like you're doing really well!
yea, let it go. You are doing well and it sounds like your mood is better. Keep up the positive things that work and stay away from stuff which is not going to help!
Or you can just reply to his email and tell him you want him to hang that picture where his heart is. hah
Thanks Maybell and pilot, I didn't respond. I have no idea what I would say anyway.
Today am back to GAL-o-rama selfish mode. I just don't know if I want him back. Went to a few parties in the last few days and met new people including some very interesting men. No dates, no nothing, but just made me think. I was talking to one guy (and his girlfriend) for quite a while - the guy was so sexy, smart, outgoing and terrific. I found myself comparing him to my WAH. My H is not so outgoing, not as smart, and this guy was so very cute. I thought, hmmm I'd rather be with a guy like this, why am I trying so hard to hold on to my WAH?
These sexy, funny, smart guys are out there. So why am I fixated on the one that is being a total ASS to me? The one that broke my heart and doesn't give a crap about me. The one who slept with his slutty young coworker and said she is better than me in every way? The one who is dating every woman in town. The one who has lost all the things I liked about him to begin with.
Sometimes I wonder if I only want him back to win. For my ego.
Well, that is my story for Sunday. Hope everyone is having a good weekend!
Hugs, Lisa
I have an idea of where he could stick that picture...
As for noticing other guys and thinking about what you really want -- I think that is very healthy. I've found myself doing the same thing. Why would we want someone back who doesn't want us, who actively wants others, and then might only eventually return and maybe or maybe not stick around. It's lame.
Of course, I'm hoping (even though I know better) for the big revelation that he's been a jerk, loves me like crazy, and respects me for standing by him during his MLC, and then cue the big second honeymoon phase. But that's pure fantasy. I know it would be a LOT of hard work to restore a relationship with him.
So yes, it probably would be a lot easier to start over with someone else, and maybe now we have a better idea of the kind of person we should be with. HOWEVER, there are no guarantees there either. And we could meet someone fantastic who, a few years down the road, turns out the same way.
There are no guarantees either way. Makes me want to be a celibate cat lady some days...
My H is not so outgoing, not as smart, and this guy was so very cute. I thought, hmmm I'd rather be with a guy like this, why am I trying so hard to hold on to my WAH?
Careful Lisa. Isnt this exactly what the WAS thinks about the LBS prior to BD? And isnt this the thinking we are trying so hard to undo in them?
These sexy, funny, smart guys are out there. So why am I fixated on the one that is being a total ASS to me? The one that broke my heart and doesn't give a crap about me.
So after all your efforts to convince your H that the grass is not always greener, you are going to fall into the same trap?
I am not trying to 2x4 ya. I know exactly where your thinking comes from. I just want to do for you what I wish someone would have done for me a few weeks ago. Get you off that line of thinking. A M takes work, a R takes work. We know this. Remember, your H was the light of your eye not long ago. HE was the greenest grass. Somewhere along the way, you found the dark patches in that lawn. This smart funny guy you met, and others you will meet, have their own bad grass.
Again, I do not want to sound harsh on you. Youve been through a lot and I totally get why your patience is worn down. I just want to help you find that extra bit of energy to keep going because as hard as this is, our next R should it be with someone else, is going to get just as hard, if not harder once that honeymoon period wears off.
Sometimes I wonder if I only want him back to win. For my ego.
Very possible. But I am sure there is more to you than just ego.
Wishing you the best!
Hi pilot and Ahoy, thank you so much for the wise words of wisdom!!! Wow.
I guess I am totally guilty of grass is greener thinking right now! Wow. 2x4 needed! Food for thought.
But also maybe this type of thinking will help me to get to the place where I am ok with whatever happens, whether he wakes up from his fog and has a big revelation - or not.
Thank you so much for the insights. I really did not consider this angle.
Hugs to you both,
LisaB
But also maybe this type of thinking will help me to get to the place where I am ok with whatever happens, whether he wakes up from his fog and has a big revelation - or not.
LisaB
You get to the place where you are ok with whatever happens by worrying about your own grass in your own yard. How green or brown your H grass is should have nothing to do with it. I know it is EASIER to move on when you are able to rationalize your H as a bad choice. But forcing that image on him will only backfire in the future when your emotions cool.
You are doing well Lisa, and I am positive you will turn out just fine no matter what. It just stinks what you have to endure right now, so I know what and why you think the way you do...because I do the same thing.
Hello my grass growing friends, things are quiet in the garden.
Didn't hear from WAH for a few days since his charming message about home is where the heart is. I didn't reply, per your wonderful advice.
Last night at 2am I got a text message: "hello?"
I am assuming a drunk text. I didn't see it until the next morning.
This story just gets sillier and sillier.
I feel more and more that the grass is not greener but actually that his grass is simply dead. I used to love playing on that lawn, it was so soft and easy and comfortable and convenient. Now that lawn is so dry and brown and dead and smells bad too. If it got watered and reseeded, would it regrow? Maybe. Would I still be happy and comfortable over there or was it just that it was convenient? Would I be better off looking for another lawn to call my own?
Yes I know - all men are pigs hahaha. No just kidding. I know all relationships and people have troubles and if I found someone new there is no guarantee that things would be better than they are with my H. That is one reason why we DB.
I am just starting to feel hopeless I suppose. And I am really hurt by all his stupid behaviors these past months.
Just venting here. I am not doing anything about it other than slowly becoming more detached and distant in my heart.
Anyone have advice about his drunk text? Do I reply? Say something clever? Say hello back? Ignore him until he grows up and is able to have a normal conversation?
Hope everyone is doing great!
Hugs, LisaB
Thanks for stopping by my thread, Lisa. I find it interesting that our H are both behaving in such different ways but yet we could both write the same sentences ("I am just starting to feel hopeless I suppose. And I am really hurt by all his stupid behaviors these past months."+ "…slowly becoming more detached and distant in my heart.") Which is to say - you are not alone!
I wouldn't respond to the hello? text. If he was drunk - then whatever! If he wasn't drunk - surely if he wanted to reach out in a meaningful way then he'll do it again and you'll not lose anything by not replying now.
hi Ganb8te, I see that several of us are having this same type of feeling. Thanks for letting me know that I'm not alone. I guess if we want to wait for them to potentially come around then patience is needed. I don't know how much patience I have.
Thanks for the advice on what to do about the text. So far I have ignored it. I am wondering why he seems to have completely lost the ability to communicate in clear sentences...
Hugs, Lisa
Lisa,
I think you, others, as well as myself are guilty of the same thing. We WANT to think the worst about our spouse. We WANT to think their grass is no longer green enough for us. After all, it would make it much easier for us to move along, and cope with being the LBS.
But we cannot forget our role in making their grass brown. When we all got married, that grass was pretty green. In getting married, we gave up our individual yards, for a yard tended by both partners. If that grass got brown, it was not just our spouses fault, it was also our fault. We had just as much obligation to keeping the grass green as the other person. Also, remember, our spouses began seeing the brown grass long before we did. We are only just now starting to see what they saw. That does not excuse affairs, or crappy behavior. All we can do is work to make the family grass green again. It will always have dead spots, and holes in the yard. We just cannot focus on those areas, or the neighbors' yard will always look greener.
Ok, no more grass analogies
Not done with the grass analogies yet! My fave is: the grass is greener...but just as hard to mow (John Butler Trio lyric, but I think I recall reading that it comes from somewhere else). Anyway, we, our S, we all need to work on ourselves. It's going to take work no matter what side of the fence we're on.
Pilot, I think you are spot on.
Oh for f's sake. Pilot why do you always have to tell me how it is? You are right yet again.
Yes of course I had a role to play in the crappy situation with the grass. But hey, when I was around the grass was still green with a few dead spots here and there. But it was NICE GRASS. Then my H left for the pretty meadow with the spring flowers. Spring turned into autumn but he's still out there, high as a kite, running around like a stoned hippie in the dry meadows.
And here I am trying to figure out what to do about that boring dead lawn. I want to run around in a meadow too!
Today I posted something on Facebook and he and the OW both liked it. Not to mention his brother and mother and also another girl he is trying to get with. WTF is happening? Am I living in the twilight zone?
WAHHHH!!!
Thanks for checking in on me Ganb8te and Pilot! Hugs!
So in this instance, would the garden my W had be the OM
Lisa, I laughed out loud at the garden and the Facebook thing. Thanks for the chuckle.
Lisa,
This: "Then my H left for the pretty meadow with the spring flowers. Spring turned into autumn but he's still out there, high as a kite, running around like a stoned hippie in the dry meadows."
Cracked me UP!!!
---GGG
Lisa,
Hah, ok now I feel bad for my post! I dont mean to pick on ya!
And the facebook thing, ouch. That has to be crappy to have OW posting to your fb page. All the more reason to block the H. Nothing good is going to come out of FB. Although my DB coach suggested maybe I unblock my W, since my W is a fb stalker, she would undoubtably follow what I was up to.
Lisa,
I cannot get over that you're FB friends with the OW. Block that woman! You deserve to post without that weirdness. AND you're friends with the woman your WAH wants to get with? What is this? Is he trying to get with all of your friends? Gross. It's almost incestuous.
Blech!
It's time to thin the FB herd and get rid of a few people so you can post without all that grossness. You deserve that!
On a separate note, I don't think anyone can blame you for losing your motivation and wanting to run free in a beautiful spring meadow. It sounds amazing but from our perspective it looks like a beautiful meadow but when you look more closely, there's crab grass and gophers everywhere.
Keep watering your lawn. Pull the weeds, plant some flowers, invite the hummingbirds and the ladybugs because your garden is going to be a healthy garden with or without WAH's assistance in tending it. It'll weather storms and scorching heat, hail and tornados. Just keep tending.
Another one here who can't believe the temerity of OW on fb. Breathtaking arrogance.
Hi friends! Missed you! Glad the forum is back up. I'm sad to see that my rambling about gardens, lawns and ice cream flavors has disappeared. It was so pithy...
Hope you are all doing well. I have been keeping very busy and doing great.
I didn't hear very much from WAH. And I have finally absorbed the tips from my manly friends here and have gotten quite good at NC! After his weird drunk texts from last week he was quiet for a few days then started up with his regular contact method... telling me he had something of mine that I must urgently need/I have something of his he suddenly needs. This has been his standard excuse for contacting me for the past 3 months since BD.
So we have been exchanging messages about meeting up to swap these OH SO important items. I guess maybe I'll see him in the next 2 weeks for that purpose. He seems to want to meet during the day, maybe to keep the interaction brief during a lunch break or maybe just because he is fully booked in the nights with his hot dating life. Who knows. Unfortunately for him I am also fully booked.
Although my ice cream flavor rantings (I am chocolate raspberry swirl with toasted almonds while he is cheap fake vanilla if you must know) have disappeared from the boards, I still have been feeling quite detached from him. I'm not so sure I still desire a reunion. I know if/when I see him I will likely feel differently. But for now I am mostly detached. It helps that I have avoided spying and also communicating with him. It helps that I have been keeping busy too.
Sometimes I think about reuniting and I feel in my gut that it could happen in the winter time. That he needs at least a few months to really check out the grass on the other side before he realizes it's not greener. I have always felt that when the summer is over and the grass dies back he will come around. Does anyone else have this same type of gut feeling? I have to say my gut is often right but how and why I do not know.
Anyway, I missed babbling to you all and I hope you are doing well! Going to check out everyone's threads now!
Hugs, Lisa
Glad to see you are still doing well Lisa! Yea, too bad about the green grass postings. Oh well, we will come up with some new stuff for ya. Seems your H is still not ready to let you go since he is back to his standard text/meet requests. Just keep at it and who knows what will happen by this winter.
Keep that GAL up, it seems to do well for you!
Keep having fun. It sounds like you've already made yourself the W only a fool would leave, but in case he does decide to look back, you want him to see the greenest grass possible, or the tastiest dish of ice cream, or whichever analogy you're going for this week.
My W seems to have more respect for me just based on the fact that I'm out doing something besides sitting at home every night. Darn those vets and being right. GAL is the way to go.
So glad you're doing great, Lisa! I need to follow your example and embrace this time for myself. You are an inspiration!
Hi friends! Thanks for the kind words of support! Ahoy you are doing great too, so strong and independent. We all have those down moments.
Glad to hear that things are going in the positive direction for you Joe! Yipee!
Yesterday had a short text message conversation with the WAH that he initiated. A few weeks back I remember thinking "if he starts sending me funny links or photos it means he wants to impress me".
Then out of the blue he sent me a funny link.
It wasn't until later in the day that I remembered my previous thought and found it interesting. I remember when I originally had that idea I felt full of hope that one day this would be a small sign. But then when it happened I didn't really notice it.
I don't know, I am still feeling quite sad in my situation. I have not been snooping or looking at his facebook page so I have no idea what he is up to. But still it takes a lot of control not to look. And not to think about it. I guess in the grand scheme I am doing better. I don't have constant murderous thoughts about OW, just simmering hate. My life is very busy and mostly happy.
I guess I just miss ... love and sex!
I find myself thinking 50% of the time about WAH and 50% of the time about how to find a new guy. I am vaguely flirting with a few guys but nothing serious at all and I don't find them to be viable candidates anyway.
I know we have talked about this before but I just find it unfair that my H is out and about dating, having sex and falling in love with OW and others, and I am not. I don't even know why or if I want him back. I feel torn.
I'm just venting here. My real life friends of course are all about "move on" and encourage me to date others. I don't feel pressured by them but I do feel I want to date! I miss having affection, romance, flirting, attraction, sex etc etc. And I'm finding it hard to see why I should deprive myself.
I know I need to keep the focus on myself now and keep growing and bettering myself. But I'm lonely in a way. Not at all lonely for a social life or work life but for a love life.
Sigh...
Thanks for letting me vent.
Big hugs,
Lisa
I am with you Lisa. I miss the love life part. I miss the snuggles. The comfort of just having someone next to me in bed. The casual conversations about my/her day. I miss the sex. I miss the hand holding. I miss the lunch dates. I basically miss married life. Do I want to keep waiting around for WAW to come out of her fog? Do I want to try and start with someone new? Which will be quicker? Which will be more rewarding long term? In the past I would gravitate to an old fling to fulfill those needs. It worked. Some here will say I am unable to live without a significant other. I believe I am. I have been for a while now. It is not that I am unable, it is I just do not want to.
Like you, I find myself split between thinking about how to rebuild a M with WAW and what I would like to find in a new R with someone else.
But, if you really miss sex that bad, I can offer a cure. Talk to your girlfriends, and find out who they know that is really bad at it. Then go have it. You will yearn for your H after that!
I miss that too, Lisa! But more than just the physical aspect, I miss the deep emotional connection that I thought I had to my H. At the same time, I'm trying to remind myself how exciting and wonderful it feels to fall for someone new. It's been 16 years since my last "first kiss." Maybe that's something to look forward to if all else fails. Trying to find the silver lining!
Ahoy, I hear you on looking for the silver lining! I have been looking for it so hard I think my eyes will fall out! I actually went on and on the other day to a friend about how I was HAPPY that we split up and how my life is so much better without him. I almost convinced myself.
LOL pilot! I don't have to ask around for a bad sex parter. I am pretty sure I have at least a 50% chance of finding one all by myself. (if past experience proves correct haha)
Like you I know I am perfectly capable of living on my own, but I don't want to. I don't need to "learn" how to be independent. I know how. I have been single a lot. I am not interested in a long, waiting, dry spell...
I know patience is the thing with this DB stuff, I just don't know if I feel like spending my patient time being single and lonely. I wish I had an old fling to call. I would do it in a heartbeat! All my decent old flings are in relationships. You see I have already thought about it haha.
Well, it's not like someone is banging on my door this very minute so I guess these thoughts are a moot point. I just feel frustrated that my WAH seems to be having a more exciting love life than me and here I am lonely wondering if I will ever have a good relationship again. That is rotten. Although from what I know about it, his love life is exciting but not exactly happy. I'd rather be happy, and I am, so I guess I am doing ok.
This week WAH is going away on a work trip with OW. It's one of those team bonding trips, so no work, just play. Annoying because I know he is sharing accommodations with her. I guess the good side is that last I heard she rejected him so maybe the trip will make him suffer. Although I also heard he is now interested in another coworker too so... Well, maybe you can see why I wish I had a new boyfriend(s).
Love stinks.
Lisa, you crack me up! I hear you. While I have no proof that W is or has had other interactions, I do have to wonder. It makes me sad to think about because you're right, here we are, hoping to save a marriage while the WAS does their thing. I was talking to a friend from my previous job and found out she just left her H earlier this year because of some crazy stuff he was doing. She's still hoping that he'll come around, but said "All the hoping in the world doesn't keep your bed warm at night!"
Ugh. I just saw OW walking down the street. (we live in the same neighborhood)
She didn't see me. Of course I said some choice swear words under my breath. Is it bad that I wish horrible things would happen to her? VD is the major one. And it wouldn't be so surprising if she caught one considering her slutty behavior.
Is it worse that she stole my H just because she is insecure and didn't even want him? That she flirted and slept with him to prove she could steal someone's man and then rejected him? Now he is sad because his "crush" doesn't want him. Would it be better if they had tried to have a relationship and failed? Won't he continue to lust after her and idealize her since she rejected him?
Not that it matters.
Lisa,
I think it's pretty natural to have those feelings. When my W first moved out, I had no idea where she was living. She and I would meet at Target on Friday night/Saturday morning and she would take the kids. When they came back, the kids would tell me this guy was always there. It wasn't until around Halloween when I finally put my foot down about the kids being uncomfortable about him being there that she admitted to me that he was her "roommate" (We're friends an nothing more...). Later toward Christmas when her car got impounded for excessive parking tickets, she finally let me know where she was living so I could pick her up to spend time with the kids. One night as I was dropping her off, I saw his car parked out in the street. It took every ounce of my strength not to go let the air out of his tires. That was just one of the milder thoughts that I had. Haha.
Hang in there. It's a tough road, but as a good friend of mine always tells me, the best way to get through hell is to keep on walking.
Sorry you saw her! It is better that she rejected him, rather the two of them having an ongoing deep love relationship (wouldn't that be worse)? Maybe he'll have a small taste of the heartbreak that we're experiencing.
I feel myself longing for a boyfriend too, even though I'm not in a place, emotionally, where is would be a good idea. It definitely wouldn't be fair to him, and it could make a divorce rather messy (although perhaps more bearable). I saw an attractive guy at a movie screening last night and it was all I could do not to give him my number (but didn't -- had D in tow). What would I tell him: I'm married but interested in dating? I can't imagine that this would be a good pickup line. I'm committed to not dating romantically until the D, based on feedback I got on my thread. I have to have faith that dating, and finding another partner, will happen in its own time. In the meantime, it's good to get back in touch with my own needs. I think if I were to pursue another relationship at this time, it might just be in reaction to my H and my situation. I'm trying not to be reactionary right now, as much as possible.
But I do have those urges!!
Me three! I'm really missing the physical and emotional connection I had with my H (physical contact is up there as one of my main LL). On the other hand, I never realized how many good looking guys there are in my neighborhood!
Hm, maybe I need to move to Australia?
Australian guys are super hot! I have a few on my radar as well...
LisaB
I was reading from the beginning of this thread and couldn't finish because I ran across so many BD. Can you or a seasoned member please tell me what BD stands for? Thanks.
I'll just say from what I read from page 1 to 2, it is very hard being no contact towards them and then when they turnaround and be no contact to you too.
Arcola, bd is bomb drop. First notification you get that the spouse might leave/is cheating/whatever. There is an abbreviations thread at the top of the newcomers forum that is very helpful if you find more indecipherable abbreviations.
Hi Maybell, thanks for answering! How are you doing? I'm going to go check your thread. Hugs!
Bomb drop -- when you first get the speech from your spouse about wanting out or not being happy or not in love or whatever nonsense
Hey guys, time for a little venting.
I've been thinking a lot about my M and what went wrong and how I could have done things differently. I see on other's threads discussions about helpful books and great ideas for better communication and I just feel left out. I didn't have these types of problems in my relationship and I'm just trying to figure out if there is anything I can do or could have done to save my M.
What could I have done differently? What went wrong?
And in thinking about this I cannot see that many big things I could have done differently. And so I wonder- why am I here trying to DB? Yes, of course I can work on myself, we always can improve. I'm very far from perfect! But it has little to do with my marriage, we got along great and had a very easy and fun relationship.
He always told me how much he loved and cherished me and was so happy with our perfect marriage. At some point a few months ago apparently he decided he didn't want to be with me or wasn't sure he did, but he didn't communicate this to me at all. And his pretty coworker began flirting with him. After a few weeks of that he started acting strange to me and when I pushed to know why, he left me and tried to start a relationship with her, and then when that didn't work, with others.
When I look at how he treated me I am enraged. I was supposed to be his best friend, his most cherished person in the world, and he treated me with no respect. He lied and abused my trust. We can say he is in a fog. But does that excuse these actions? NO!
I was with him because he was kind and honorable and caring and loyal. He was a little boring but he was a good kind person and I thought those people are hard to find. I had rarely met a guy that could truly be trusted and I thought I was so lucky to find that rarity. So even though he wasn't the smartest, richest or best looking - I held on to my gem.
Now it turns out he is not loyal, he cannot be trusted and he isn't so kind. And I wonder - was he really ever kind and loyal or was this bad person always lurking inside? Was he just with me waiting for something "better" to come along?
When I imagine him coming back to me, begging for forgiveness and asking for another chance it makes me feel good. But I truly wonder why. Is it because I cannot live without him? Or is it because I want to gain back the upper hand? That I want to know HE didn't reject ME. That I want to repair the blow to my ego. This question scares me a bit.
I know I need to focus on myself and just move on to be honest. I realize that there is really not much I can do to salvage the relationship. If anything happens it is on him. I wasn't perfect but I was pretty great, and now I am even better. If he doesn't realize that, there is not much I can do.
If you have followed my thread he continues to reach out to me in a friendly way. But at this point I don't feel friendly to him at all. I feel a lot of hate and anger and I have no idea why he thinks we can be friends after the disrespect he has shown me. I feel like any friendly feelings I have toward him are based on the past, when he WAS a good person that I trusted. And since he has shown himself to be a stupid selfish A-hole, I don't really want to be friends with that person.
Lately I have mostly kept my distance and been very cool in response to him. He has no idea where I live or what I do every day. Our lives are quite detached now after 3 months of separation. I feel like soon I will go fully dark.
I do doubt myself a bit and wonder if I am just reacting to being hurt, and if I should be more friendly and open to keep the road home easy.
What do you all think? Any advice?
Hope everyone is having a great weekend. Heavy thoughts here.
Hugs, Lisa
Lisa, your story is similar to mine in many ways. All I can say is that if I didn't have a kid, I would probably be done and go ahead and dissolve the marriage.
Here is a question for you though -- do you have to be in a hurry to D, or can you just move on with your life and see if he files. A good friend whose been through tough times with her H told me that it took them about 9 months to feel different about each other. My parents best friends went through the same thing, with a similar timeline. So I guess maybe ask yourself if you have to be in a hurry to get clarity. Or can you just enjoy your life for what it is right now and maybe not give so much attention to your H. Just let that evolve as it will.
That being said, I feel the same way many days. I want the limbo to be over. I want to move on. But I also want to be a person who is not reactive. And I want my H to take responsibility for the D if that's where we end up. Sometimes I think he is pushing me to file so he doesn't have to take the blame for it. I'm not planning on giving him that -- he will have to end the M knowing that it was his decision, and that I'm not the "bad guy." Then if he has regrets later, he can only blame himself.
Time is your friend, Lisa. Don't be in a hurry. You don't have to love him right now, just love yourself.
Being in limbo is pure torture. I keep waiting for the other shoe to come crashing down on my head. My H keeps telling me soon our D will be final but honestly I am pretty sure he hasn't done anything. It doesn't take 6 months to finalize a divorce. I feel like he is keeping me in the wings until he finds someone else. The really infuriating thing is that this is exactly what he did with his first marriage. I was the someone else. H started a relationship immediately after BD. It has since crashed and burned. H had to make sure I knew it was over. Is that messed up or what. H is self destructing before my eyes and I am powerless to do anything. I am praying that he wakes up and realizes what he walked away from and decides to come home. I know that it's a long way off before that happens.
Lisa, I've been wondering how you've been doing. I figured you were either too busy GAL or you've been mulling over things.
Aside from my H being a bit of an avoider, I too think that we didn't have that many problems. We did a lot of the things we were supposed to be doing (talking with each other about the day, not arguing over the small stuff, spending quality time together….) I think we just fell into a rut and got stuck on some stuff. Have you read any of the books mentioned on other threads. It has taken me reading them to see that there were some problematic dynamics that I just simply didn't appreciate. But I maintain that our M was pretty good (at least for me, clearly H felt differently).
Here's the way Iook at it: What would be different if you weren't trying to DB? Actually I don't think things would be that different for me. I wouldn't be jumping into another relationship right now (I'm just not ready), I would be trying to get myself in order, GAL etc.
People keep asking me "am I moving on" yet but I've come to think that is a concept Hollywood made up. It's just not that black and white. Am I getting on with my life? Sure. Will I close the door on H? Maybe. Will one of us file for divorce when we are eligible (June 2, 2016)? WTFK. This whole experience is teaching me that nothing is certain. It never was though…why on earth I was under that illusion I just don't know.
I think the most difficult thing is acknowledging that we are in this situation. Sure we wish we weren't here. But we are...so…the.only.way.out.is.through. All will be revealed in due course...
Also, George Clooney is off the market as of this past weekend so....
Seriously, that changes everything
Thanks for the feedback Ahoy, fpw, ganb8te!
It's true, without DB what would I really be doing differently? Not much. But I guess maybe I would stop hoping he would wake up from the fog or wondering whether I should be friendly or tell him to F off...
But I guess I just need to keep focusing on myself and being polite to him to maintain my dignity. If I opened the floodgate of anger and hate at him I don't know if I could close it. He wouldn't really hear it and I wouldn't feel better anyway.
I know we had some troubles in our relationship but they were not major problems. Definitely things we could have worked out I think. Now I see that WAH was feeling doubts but the OW pushed him over the edge. I think she really preyed on his insecurities and also on my trust. She and I were friends and I told her details about my relationship and about H. I think she knew the buttons to push. This isn't the first time she has broken up a relationship, I think she gets satisfaction from it.
I'm not blaming her for everything I am just saying that his unwillingness to work on our minor issues was in a huge part due to his hope that he would have a better life with her. He told several people this exact thing in fact. He said there was really nothing wrong with us, but he just didn't feel the sparks with me as much as he did with her. Well, yes, when you meet a sexy new person who flirts with you it is much more exciting than the real person you have seen at their worst.
Ganb8te you are truly right that nothing is certain and in my strong positive moments I get strength from that. And I was also guilty of taking my relationship for granted, probably the biggest mistake I made.
Ahoy, I hear you about the timeline. I have several friends who have reconciled and typically it takes months and months, if not years. So I know I shouldn't be in a hurry. I guess I just feel less and less like I want to reconcile and that scares me a bit. It has been 3 months. In 6 more months I feel I will be completely detached from him.
I have been GALing like crazy and things are mostly going well in my life. I just feel this cloud over me. I'm not crying all the time or unable to eat but I can't seem to let go of anger and sadness. Perhaps I'm just in the stage of processing those feelings and so they are popping up. I see something that reminds me of WAH or OW and I have these hateful thoughts. I would like to block those thoughts so that I don't feel so much anger but I can't seem to, they just keep coming back. Hopefully I will get through this stage and then I just won't care.
Part of me really feels that going dark is my next step. I feel that he left me, he said he wanted to be rid of me, and so he can't keep having me at arm's length when he feels like speaking to me. He needs to really feel what life will be like if I never communicate with him again. At this time I don't even like him so why would I want to be friends?
On the other hand, do I just want to punish him? Take away the one thing I can take which is myself?
I also know this path takes unexpected turns. Tomorrow something new could happen in my situation that changes everything. I guess I have to hold on for the ride.
Thanks again for the words of wisdom!
Hugs, LisaB
Lisa,
Your situation is SO HARD and I want to say the ONE thing that is so profound and meaningful that it changes your whole perspective and makes you feel better... but I just don't know the answer.
The question of "WHY?" in your situation is so HUGE. It just doesn't make sense and we can spend the rest of our lives trying to figure it out and I'll be frank... I don't think your H even knows. There is literally no one on this planet who can actually answer the biggest over-hanging question in your situation and THAT is overwhelmingly frustrating, I am sure.
I guess the big question now is: Does it matter?
I'm going to say No. It doesn't matter at this point WHY he left. It only matters if you want to stand. And you don't have to know now. And you can change your mind, multiple times if you feel you need to.
Those of us who can pinpoint specific reasons that lead to the failure of our marriages have the distinct advantage of working on those specific issues and that gives us hope (though no guarantee). You, however, have nothing to go on and the pain that comes with that is immeasurable. In fact, I think it would be TERRIBLY STRANGE if you didn't wonder if you should keep standing. He HAS been terrible to you in every single way. Who could blame you for not standing? For moving on and never looking back?
So I will ask you a hard question:
Why are you standing?
Any answer to that question is a good answer but it's important for you to know why. I suggest you figure out if you're standing simply because then you wouldn't be rejected because, while that's enough to keep you standing, it won't enough to keep a marriage afloat should that happen, you know?
I imagine that if H called you tonight saying "I want to come back" you'd be thrilled at first but given some time you might vacillate a little, right? You don't want the man he has turned into, right? You want loyalty, honesty, kindness and he has not exhibited these traits in a while.
So, basically you want R with certain conditions. As he is right now you don't want him back. That's what it sounds like you're deciding.
I don't think it's bad for you to move on and detach and be completely dark, mentally leave him behind. He basically has not given you any other option.
But you can give yourself options. You have THAT control. You can stand. You can drop that rope so hard it smacks him in the face. You can withdraw into a world of confusion and bitterness and wonder what went wrong and never trust another soul again (doesn't sound fun but it IS an option). You can open an ashram and preach peace and love and do yoga all day. Or you can get up tomorrow and say, "Who knows what the heck is going on with him, I know who I am, I know what I value, I know what I stand for and I do not compromise my core values".
It sounds to me he let go of an amazing gem of a woman. I wonder often (is it weird that I think about your situation so much?) whether his buddies are like, "dude, what did you do? Lisa is awesome, you two were awesome together. What has gotten into you?"
You can only control you. He can barely control himself.
Take this time, this precious gift of time and figure out why you're standing. The ugly honest truth of it. Then assess whether it's a reason that is consistent with your core values.
We'll be here either way. (((hugs)))
p.s. it's a good thing we don't give names of spouses here because I'd be THAT person sending hate mail to your husband. Frequently.
Ss -I just love you to pieces!!! Thank you for that awesome bit of wisdom! And for the support in hating my H along with me! And for calling me a gem. Woo hoo!
You ask the exact questions I am asking myself. And you answer my questions the way I would as well. Why am I standing? What do I want? Do I even want him?
And yes the truth is, I am doing it all for myself. He's become a new and worse person who I want nothing to do with. If he remains that person then good riddance. But if the H I knew came back, maybe I would be open to it.
I also wonder what his friends and family tell him. I think many of them are encouraging him to find himself and sow his oats. Before BD he also made a group of new and immature friends so they aren't helping the situation. They love partying and being promiscuous. But most of our common friends and his family adore me, whether or not they think he should stay with me is unknown. (my friends hate him and think he is a loser) Oddly a few of his/our male friends have been contacting me lately wanting to socialize, a bit unexpected. I wonder if they are trying to get the gossip from my side or if it is just that they miss seeing me or if it is just random.
I just read something from Maybell on Ganb8te's thread:
"My DB coach said that our expectations often determines outcomes, so give yourself your best chance and expect positive things."
And it blew my mind a little bit.
My negative thinking is not going to help me get a positive result. It may help me drop the rope and smack him upside the head with it, but if I'm not sure that is what I want then maybe I should be a little more positive.
Thanks to you Ss for the terrific advice and to Maybell too!
Hugs, Lisa
Lisa,
I love the quote from maybell on Ganb8te's thread! I'd like to think that's how I'm living but be cautious, and I keep reminding myself to be too because it can be dangerous if not done correctly.
My expectation is that, after some solid time, serious soul searching and healing, my H will come back home. This is a VERY positive way of thinking but it could also be fantasy-thinking. Make very clear the distinction.
Some may interpret having positive expectations and thinking positively as license to day dream and be unrealistic. I'm not accusing you of doing that of course but I want to make sure people don't think, "oh it's perfectly ok for me to ignore my faults and just positively expect him home. Great! Done!"
Positive expectations isn't a way to avoid the hard work.
We love you Lisa.
I go back and forth between mentally castrating your H and wishing very bad things for OW because she's just low down dirty. If your state was one of the few that permitted suing for alienation of affection, I'd be inclined to consider it. Not that it would get you anywhere but I'd REALLY want to.
It's very hurtful when your H paints you in a negative light to OW. My H has been doing that. He is desperately doing the online dating thing and saying things like he keeps meeting the wrong women. After being together for 22 years it's hard to hear him say things like that when you are used to hearing him say I love you more than you will ever know. Then to ILYBINILWY. I really hate that phrase.
Ss I completely agree that having fantasies or false expectations wouldn't be useful. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of positive vs negative thoughts. For example, when my H sends a friendly text message my first thoughts are negative. And if my thoughts are negative that is going to come through in my communication and behavior. Maybe this is not a bad thing since he deserves to be frozen out. But then again it depends on my goal.
Since I don't know my end goal it is probably wise not to burn bridges.
I have been reading about pursuer distancer dynamics. It turns out I definitely still have some reading to do that can help me. I fit many aspects of the pursuer profile, while my WAH is a distancer in many ways. For example:
Me: primarily people and feeling oriented, gives up individuality for the sake of the relationship, overly impatient, cannot delay dealing with problems, lacks restraint, impulsive, sex seen as a sign of caring for and by partner
Him: avoidance, believes ignoring a problem will cause it to go away, seeks peace, avoids emotional crisis, avoids facing relationship problems, protected, closed, primarily object and logic oriented, overemphasis on thinking and
logic, fears emotionality
When we were in a happy place this was not as evident in large part because he is extremely clingy. Not needy, but clingy. He doesn't need a lot of assurance but he does need to be together all the time. It is difficult to be a distancer and be close, right? But he was often emotionally distant which I took as part of his introvert personality. I took the fact that he always wanted to be around me as evidence that he really loved me. But maybe there were other things going on below the surface with the p-d dynamic.
Reading a bit about this dynamic made me realize it might be useful in the situation we now find ourselves in. When I pull away as I mostly have been lately, he seems to reach out. But if I respond too warmly he backs off again. On the other hand he also stays away if I respond too coldly. Anyone else working on repairing this dynamic, reading The Solo Partner, etc?
Reading into the pursuer distancer dynamic brought me to some info about MLC. My H is 30 so hardly midlife. However, I believe he is having a crisis. His career and lifestyle recently changed quite dramatically and I believe that precipitated a lot of what is going on now. He fits almost all of the features of someone in MLC, other than his age...
-Preoccupation or fear of aging or death (don't think so)
-Vanity: Obsession with appearance (yes)
-Dissatisfaction with previous goals (yes)
-Life of Accommodation has left him feeling trapped (not sure)
-Impulsive Behavior (yes)
-Irritability (yes)
-Restlessness (not sure)
-Substance abuse (yes it seems like he is drinking MUCH more, possibly some recreational drugs too)
Again, I don't think he is having a MLC, but I think some of the ways of dealing with it can be useful in my situation. Anyone else have experience with a WAS who is not midlife but going through an identity crisis?
Just thinking out loud here... wondering what to do differently in my situation, if anything.
I also read through some other's old threads and it is always enlightening to see the twists and turns and ups and downs that we all have in common. I'm not sure if the similar stories give me hope or make me feel like I'm just another person waiting in line for the awful rollercoaster.
Hope you all are doing well today!
Hugs, Lisa
Again, I don't think he is having a MLC, but I think some of the ways of dealing with it can be useful in my situation. Anyone else have experience with a WAS who is not midlife but going through an identity crisis?
Hi Lisa, I have absolutely no idea what's going on with my WAH, but a MLC was certainly suggested (by my DB coach) so I ended up reading up on the subject quite a bit. Like your husband, mine fits some but not all of the MLC criteria. However, he was definitely depressed, and apparently MLC is a type of depression (so who knows which one is happening, since a lot of the symptoms are the same). Alas, with both of these conditions the advice appears to be back off(while being friendly and keeping the way home smooth- so nothing different than what you are already doing), because they are the only ones that can fix themselves. I will say that my DB coach said that to a a depressed person, having an affair would be like using crack cocaine, which is why you can only sit back and wait for the high to wear off. My personal opinion is that in my case anyway, H always thought he was the type of guy who would never, ever have an affair, and now he is having to come to terms with the fact that he has broken his own moral code and is not the man he thought he was. That must be tough - occasionally I even feel some sympathy for him.
Its maddening when they are not themselves, you really want a "diagnosis" that explains what the heck is going on, but alas I don't think either one of us will get a definitive answer any time soon. My marriage was also easy going and conflict free, we used to talk with relief about how drama free our lives were compared to other people's relationships. Times have changed.....
Hi raliced!
Yeah I guess depression, affair, MLC, identity crisis... does it really matter if the results and methods for dealing with it are the same? The WAS acts like a looney and we just have to basically ignore them and focus on ourselves.
I read that one of the pursuer traits is being obsessed with the explanations for things. That sounds familiar. I have a need to understand what has happened. I should let go of trying to explain what happened and why and just accept the situation as is.
Talked with him briefly today over chat. He was friendly and seemed to suggest meeting again, this time because of mail he has for me and that other (unimportant) stuff I still have not picked up (that he borrowed for 3 months but suddenly needs to give me).
I find myself not wanting to meet up. I see that this has been a pattern however. Him suggesting we meet or asking to come by the house to get something. Me avoiding him. I'm not sure if I have been doing the right thing in avoiding him or not but again I find myself doing it.
I am also going on a business trip for nearly 3 weeks next week. He doesn't know I'm leaving. I wonder if I should see him before I leave or if it matters or...?
I feel like a lot of time will have passed when I return. I haven't seen him in 2 weeks and we've barely communicated. By the time I return from my trip we will not have seen each other in 6 weeks. That's a very big change for us. Will it be beneficial to us, to me? Will it help me heal not seeing him or having the possibility of seeing him for 3 weeks? Will it help him move on and forget me? Will it make him miss me more or less? Well, of course no one can know the future.
I lean toward not seeing him before I go. I don't know why. Am I afraid? Do I want to punish him by avoiding him? I don't even know my own emotions and reactions, how can I possibly understand his?
Hope everyone had a great day!
Hugs, Lisa
Well, as always, I could have written the post you made before the previous one. In fact just the other day, when I asked what would you be doing differently if you weren't DBing I was going to add that I think our Hs are going through a personal crisis. Depression/MLC - I've definitely wondered if these apply in my sitch (I think I would have substituted the yes/no to a few on your checklist though, e.g. life of accommodation left him feeling trapped - yes, preoccupation with aging - yeah, I've thought so at times). But as raliced says, putting a label on it probably doesn't change much, especially since it is a guess AT BEST.
I think you have to go with your gut as to whether or not to meet up before you go. Do what works for you. If all it takes is 3 weeks for him to "move on and forget you" then you never had a chance, right? Thinking more realistically though, I get the impression that it'll take a little more than 3 weeks to get over you ;-)
Don't meet him.
You guys are in a pattern that isn't working for you and it's up to you to break it.
Business trip that length sounds like a form of GAL to me. Not telling him acknowledges the reality of where you guys are in your relationship, and emphasizes that reality to him. Go, don't meet him, and rock your project. That will give you confidence and it will give him information.
Hope you're headed someplace awesome!!
hi Ganb8te and Maybell! Thanks for the advice and checking in!
I agree Maybell that we are in a weird pattern. You are so right. However I am wondering if I am causing some of the weirdness in the pattern, as I am always very hesitant to meet up with him and tend to avoid him when he seeks me out. I wonder if sometimes he is reaching out and I am shying away.
Today he again asked to meet. This time he did not use an excuse, he just asked to meet for lunch. While my first instinct was NO, I didn't respond and thought about it for a while. I realized that when he uses an excuse to meet like his stuff or my stuff it angers me and I think he should directly ask me to spend time together rather than be vague and use excuses. So now that he did that I guess I would be silly not to encourage it. That is what I wanted, and then when I get it I am still angry. ha. That makes me realize I am part of the problem.
However I do agree with you Maybell that he deserves a bit of space so to speak.
I think I will agree to meet later this week. I don't know why he wants to see me but most of the time I do enjoy my meetings with him. Or at least 50% of the time.
We shall see! Thanks again ladies for your support.
PS: my PMA is so good today, it seems to have flipped around from a down period the past few days.
Thanks and big hugs,
Lisa
Well, DBers I had a weird meeting with the WAH.
He asked to meet for lunch and I agreed. I sensed that he wanted something but I wasn't sure if I was only imagining it.
We met and started out with a lot of awkward silence. After a while we started chatting more and he casually asked me "So, are you dating?" I said "Uh, do you really want to know? Do you really want to talk about that?" to which he said that he thought it was just fine to discuss it.
He seemed relaxed about it and ready to hear the details of my exciting dating life. I said nothing. Things got icy. Then we moved on and chatted about other things.
Later he started again by saying that we spent so many years together and were so close and it is strange not to communicate more about what is going on with us, our feelings and our daily lives. My first response was "that's what you get since you decided to split up", but realized I should listen and validate instead of being defensive. He asked if I was angry, sad or happy about our situation... I threw the question back at him and he never really answered either.
It seemed like he was saying that he missed our friendship and wanted to talk more often or spend more time together. And he felt that talking about dating others was a part of being friends...?
If I take what he said at face value it seems like he is asking to be best friends. But it also seemed like he was temperature taking as he REALLY wanted to know if I am dating. Finally I sort of said I was. However he did not seem jealous or uncomfortable at all (although he has a history of hiding any sign of jealousy). I said "I know YOU are dating" and he rolled his eyes a little as if to say it isn't going so well. I asked if he wanted to talk about his dating but he didn't offer any information. I couldn't really figure out what he wanted.
As we were leaving I told him that if he ever wanted to talk about something that was OK, and I would listen. Then he gave me a big hug.
I can't tell if he misses me as a friend, is using friendship as a way to get close or what... I'm mystified and cautious, and maintaining my boundaries. I don't think I am interested in being his buddy yet, at the same time I am really not sure if I'd want to get back together anyway. I figure my best bet is to let him lead the way and just see what happens next. With my boundaries firmly set of course.
My sense is that he misses me and is not sure what he wants. I think he is saying that friendship is his goal as a reason to spend time with me and talk to me. Maybe that is what he is telling himself, maybe that is how he truly feels, or maybe he is straight out lying to me. I don't know.
We vaguely agreed to have dinner soon, but I'll be out of town for 3 weeks so that probably won't happen for a while.
Any thoughts?
Hugs, Lisa
Someone who wants to be "just friends" with an ex, does not introduce the topic of dating that early in a conversation, this early in a separation. Yes he was temperature taking.
Lisa, I think he was definitely temp checking. Good for you for holding firm to your boundaries and not pursuing him in return.
I'm curious to see where things go from here!
He might be starting to come around. My advice, keep your heart and eyes open.
No telling where this all will go, but if you shut down now, it'll never have a chance. If he does turn around, you still get to decide for yourself. You began this journey, decide when you're at a fork in the road, don't put it in the ditch now.
My random thoughts. Hope they prove somewhere useful.
Hi Joe! Thanks for the random thoughts. haha
How are you?
Thanks also Raliced and Elsa for checking in!
I've thought a bit more about our meeting and what he was trying to communicate. I'm really not sure if he is simply saying he misses my friendship or if it is something more complicated than that.
It's really hard to read him because he is very "in control" and has always been. He doesn't show a lot of emotion. With most people I could feel the intention behind the words but with him I really have to observe his behavior over time. That is classic DB advice anyway, to not listen to what he says but instead observe his actions.
If I think about it from a normal person's point of view it would indeed seem very strange that he wants to talk about my dating life. But the WAH crazy mind... who knows!? His behavior has been very illogical so it is possible that he truly is interested in my dating life and wants to discuss it. On our first meeting a month after BD he spoke about the situation with OW (in a vague way like he was talking about something he read in a magazine), and I didn't realize he was complaining about his problems with her...to me! WTF. While at the same time denying that there was anything going on between them..?
Even if he is missing me and wanting to get closer, I'm not sure either of us is really ready for that. Baby steps are the best plan. Luckily I'll be out of town for a few weeks so that will force us to stay apart. I didn't tell him I was going away so he may be surprised or annoyed when he finds out. We'll see.
Hope all of you are doing well!
Hugs, Lisa
Wow Lisa, you handled that so well! I am taking notes! My H gave the same "I miss our friendship" thing, and now I'm getting random invitations to do things with him and D14 as a family. It's hard not knowing what is motivating these invitations -- just wanting to be friends, or missing me as his H -- but I'm staying open to them. Like you, I'm not sure I want my H back, but I'm willing to stay open and see how this develops.
Kudos to you! You sound strong and good.
Hi Ahoy, thanks for the compliments on how I am handling things. I don't really think I am doing that great but I'm happy that you can glean something for your own situation from it!
Long ramble...
WAH asked me to dinner yesterday and things were even stranger than last time. We ended up getting into a quite intense conversation.
We discussed the issue of him asking about my dating. Basically he explained that our relationship was now different and he wanted to understand where I was so that he could accept that we would both move on to separate lives. He said that he didn't want to be blindsided when he found out I had a boyfriend or something. He revealed that he is dating (as I knew), but nothing serious. But he has a "friend" who he sees several nights a week (not the OW). From what little he said it seems he is using her to keep from being lonely, and he claims that she is aware of his lack of feelings and commitment... what a winner she must be!
He said he was sorry that things had gone the way they had and wished they could be different, but when I questioned him he only expressed remorse that I felt hurt or angry, and not that he had made a mistake or wanted to reunite. We then got into a heated discussion about how he has treated me and I complained that I felt he was very disrespectful surrounding BD. I wish I had been able to say this in a calm way but I ended up getting a bit emotional and ranting about OW. Then he shut down and stopped talking, which is what happened last time we got in a discussion like this.
He admitted that he has been very unhappy since we split up. That should have been music to my ears! But he explained that he expected it to be like this because it just takes time to get over a relationship...and that it was mostly due to the fact that he doesn't like to be alone and feels that lack of companionship. So he wasn't exactly saying he missed me.
All in all the conversation made me feel very down afterward. It sounded like he wants to have everything other than the romantic part of our relationship. He wants to hang out with our mutual friends, to talk all the time, to support and care for one another but not be involved in a relationship. He did not come out and say this exactly, it is just what I got from the conversation. Cake eating.
He definitely misses me like crazy and loves me as a person. But I don't notice any flirting or sexual tension and the lack of passion or spark will hold him back. That was one of his main complaints at BD.
I'm very uncertain about what to do next. I don't know how to encourage sparks. My GAL and 180s have definitely attracted his interest and attention, and he repeatedly told me how much he respects and admires me. This is a dramatic change from his opinion of me 3 months ago at BD. If the goal of DB is to regain his interest and admiration, it has been very successful.
However, a marriage is not built on friendship alone, we need that flirty spark.
I am not sure what to do next IF I do want to try to repair our marriage. (he needs to work on himself a lot) At this point I don't want to encourage cake eating and provide him with my friendship if that is truly all he wants. On the other hand, maybe starting off with friendship would allow us to repair a little of the pain so we can get close again.
I know passion is inspired by longing and distance, not by familiarity. Distance between us is definitely sparking his emotional interest, but I'm not sure about his passion. And that is what I need to spark.
I'd love advice from you all on this. What do I do? Should I be friendlier? Should I be flirty? Should I be distant? keep doing what I am doing? Do something new?
This thread might lock soon and if so I'll start a new chapter ...sigh.
Hugs to all, Lisa
I wish I had the answer but i'm in a similar situation...
the friend zone
my H has no idea that I do not intend to share holidays and hang with his parents if we are divorced. Or to sit and shoot the chit about what's going on in my life. Nope. I do not intend to be his buddy.
So, if you don't mind, I'll sit by and grab a bag of popcorn and my notebook so I can take notes on what people respond to you.
DB definitely works... but reigniting the passion and the sex appeal... that's a harder thing to write an instruction book on, I guess.
Here is what strikes me about this conversation. You say he wants every other part of the relationship other than the romantic aspects - but frankly that does not jive with someone who doesn't want to be "blindsided" when he finds out you are dating. "Blindsided" seems like a strong term for him to use. He sounds like someone who does not know himself well enough right now to know what he wants.
Which leaves you to ponder how long you will wait for him to become self aware (and who will he end up being). Its a variation of so many stories on here, which is why all the emphasis on what you can actually control. I would keep on doing what you are doing.
Best wishes to you.
raliced makes a good point (as usual), Lisa.
If he's so content to live with the relationship completely sans romance of any kind, why is he concerned about you dating? And, you clearly had to become ok with him dating, even though he's clearly unhappy, why is that something he is afraid of being "blindsided" by?
Without going way into mindreading here, I think it's relatively safe to say that he does want to want you romantically. It's a sign of someone very lost and confused and thinks he can control his desires. Maybe he can. Maybe my husband can, too.
I wonder how that will work out for them.
I vote you keep doing what you're doing, be friendly when he is and if you are one-on-one with him flirt like he's a stranger that you're interested in (which he basically is).