Hi DB friends, my previous thread got filled up with my babbling so I'll start another. Old one here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2480283&page=1Crap day today. Had a bad sleep with heavy dreams about WAH, imaginary OWs, and just horrible dreams all around. Yuck.
After several days of contacting me all the time, WAH is being more distant today. Unfortunately the timing is bad as I needed his help (that he offered) with something urgent so I needed to contact him and for him to respond quickly. So unfortunately I had to email, text and also call him. I tried to do it in the most relaxed way possible, without being needy or clingy but repeated contact is not what has been working for me. And yep, indeed I feel it didn't really work for me today.
I felt my position of power slip. He's been reading my messages and not replying, while just yesterday that was my role! I can't tell if he is doing it to punish me for ignoring him or because he is busy or for another reason. It doesn't really matter I guess.
Well, I got the help I needed from him so now I can again go back to NC. This DB game is such a roller coaster!
It's funny also to read my own words above! I just made the situation sound so dramatic. Like yesterday he was in love with me and today not. The reality is that yesterday he was calling, texting and asking lots of questions, and then today he didn't reply to my messages immediately. It's not like the world ended but my non-detached self just makes a big deal out of every little thing that happens.
Once again I need to calm down. I'm just under a lot of stress right now with other things and I think I am not rolling with the punches as well as usual.
Hope all my DB buddies are having a good day!
Hugs, LisaB
I felt my position of power slip
You hold the position of power as long as you dictate. The fact that you had to chase him down via phone, text, and email does not diminish that. You were following up on help he offered. Now if you were BEGGING for help he did not offer, then that is a different story. But since you are able to withdraw after you got the help, power restored.
So yea, calm down, take a breath, and remember it could always be a lot worse.
Not much to add but I'm with you.
Thanks pilot and Maybell.
Yes, I have to feel the power. I know it is in me and has nothing to do with what he does or says or thinks anyway.
Sorry I am in a rambling mood...
A few days ago he said he wanted something that was at my house, and that he had some items for me as well. Due to his weird communication I thought he was using this as an excuse to meet up. Luckily I figured it out before I got dressed up for a hot date! Turns out it wasn't about seeing me, it was just about the item - or perhaps the item was an excuse to communicate.
He has no idea that I misunderstood since I realized my mistake and was able to clarify without him knowing. Wow that could have been embarrassing.
Now I have a feeling he won't show up to pick it up at all, as it seems it was more about just staying in contact than the item itself. I won't be at home either way as I already have plans so it doesn't matter.
This WAS behavior is so unpredictable. Add my moody crap in there too and you have a big mess. One minute I don't want him back, the next minute I'm crying over him, the next trying to flirt with another guy... I guess I can only console myself by realizing he is probably having similar crazy swings. That would explain his unpredictable communication and behaviors.
Thinking about all this brought up more questions about what I want, what are my goals, and how I can best reach them. And my constant questioning of how friendly and in contact to be. The little bit of friendly texting is good, I feel it builds a connection and allows me to show off some 180s and GALs. But then does it also alleviate his curiosity and desire to see me in person if he can get a little dose each day? I honestly can't tell. I guess I have to keep alternating NC and friendly in a random way and see what happens.
He has been offering me help with some things I am dealing with. The help he is offering means we will have to communicate and see each other sometimes. At this point we have very little reason to communicate and see each other, and yet we still do. Taking his offer of help means a chance to remain connected in some way for a little while. However it also means I will NEED to communicate with him, probably not very often but maybe once a week or so. I can't decide if that is a good thing or bad thing. Is it better to have all ties cut so that we only stay in touch if he really wants to contact me?
Thanks for listening my friends.
Hugs, Lisa
Is it better to have all ties cut so that we only stay in touch if he really wants to contact me?
What is your goal? What do you think would be better? Him getting a weekly dose of you, or him going without you and starting to miss you? The offers of help could be nothing more than attempts at keeping you close...at arms length. I am not saying cut him off and go full NC. Just giving you something to think about...
I guess I can only console myself by realizing he is probably having similar crazy swings. That would explain his unpredictable communication and behaviors.
I doubt it. Men by their very nature do not have mood swings like women do. We have long drawn out moods. We do not go hot and cold in the matter of half a second. His unpredictable behavior is only that because you are trying to predict it. Quit worrying about what he is doing. Work on being that hot kick ass woman that guys swoon over. All the analyzing in the world is not going to derive a strategy to bring him back. GAL and being a woman he would be a fool to leave, well, that gives you the best shot. He has to see something he wants, not be told about it, and not have it crammed in his face. Believe me, he will be watching what you are doing, even if you do not think he is. Right now he has you, at least in his mind, where he can still reel you in should you start to stray too far. Drop the rope. Make him think you really have moved on, and act as if. Then see what he does.
Good luck!
Thanks pilot! Once again this is what I needed to hear!
Thinking about all this brought up more questions about what I want, what are my goals, and how I can best reach them. And my constant questioning of how friendly and in contact to be. The little bit of friendly texting is good, I feel it builds a connection and allows me to show off some 180s and GALs. But then does it also alleviate his curiosity and desire to see me in person if he can get a little dose each day? I honestly can't tell. I guess I have to keep alternating NC and friendly in a random way and see what happens.
He has been offering me help with some things I am dealing with. The help he is offering means we will have to communicate and see each other sometimes. At this point we have very little reason to communicate and see each other, and yet we still do. Taking his offer of help means a chance to remain connected in some way for a little while. However it also means I will NEED to communicate with him, probably not very often but maybe once a week or so. I can't decide if that is a good thing or bad thing. Is it better to have all ties cut so that we only stay in touch if he really wants to contact me?
Wow, it's like you took the words right out of my mouth. I was struggling with this for awhile too, and finally decided to just go full NC, which my friends have been urging me to do (friends who understand and are supportive of my ultimate desire to R). My DB coach also recommended this. Before I went full NC (going on Day 8 now), I was just like you, wondering whether I should continue with the little bit of contact so he could see that I'm GAL and doing some 180s or whether I needed to just stop completely. I don't remember your whole sitch (I know I've read it but I've read so many that sometimes they get confused in my head!), but I've found that the NC has really helped ME to detach and to not go through the crazy mood swings anymore. Although I mostly kept those hidden from my H, it was starting to really take a toll on me and my own mental health.
For me, I felt like my H was really wavering at first and my DB coach was hopeful that maybe we could save things before we truly had to separate. However, I'm realizing that H really needs to go on this journey on his own, and he's never truly going to be able to unless I completely let him out of the cage and be free. So I'm doing just that. I
hope that wonder if one day he will awaken from this fog that seems to have taken over his brain, and realize how great we could be together. If not, though, I will always be truly grateful for all I have learned throughout this journey about myself and what I really want. It might not turn out how I had expected or originally wanted, but I know that I'll be OK. And you will be, too. We all will be.
Hi Jacket! Thanks so much for your support and telling me about your NC experience. I did check out your story the other day and it sounds like you have been dealing with some confusing stuff.
I'm curious, when you went full NC has your H kept trying to contact you? That's what I struggle with. I can pretty much ignore him when he doesn't reach out to me, but when he does contact me I just feel so weird, rude and wrong not responding at all. I guess if I don't reply he will eventually 'get the picture' that I don't want to talk to him. How have you been handling that? I'll pop over to your thread to see if you already answered this.
Thanks again pilot, I've realized that I keep getting this same advice, especially from guys. Like I said above, I just struggle with implementing it.
As I said before, he contacts me at least every other day with some comment or question or made up reason. So do I do NO CONTACT meaning no reply to him ever unless it is absolutely necessary for logistics?
Hugs, LisaB
As I said before, he contacts me at least every other day with some comment or question or made up reason. So do I do NO CONTACT meaning no reply to him ever unless it is absolutely necessary for logistics?
As long as you stay in contact and answer his beck and call, he will not think he is losing you. When you stop altogether, save for logistics/kids/vital things, he begins to worry what is going on. Remember, DB is counter intuitive. But the key is NC should be easy because you are GAL. You do not have time for his nonsense. He is that nosey neighbor you are cordial with, but would rather keep walking to the front door and escape inside from.
Thanks pilot. He already messaged me today but I am on the NC bandwagon now!
Luckily I am going out of town later this week so that can be an "excuse" for not replying and then maybe I can just continue from there.
I totally get that he needs to feel that I have moved on. I just can't grasp being impolite. ha! At least I can do a week. I'll start with that.
Thanks very much pilot. I know I'll be back whining about this again soon, so apologies in advance!
I totally get that he needs to feel that I have moved on. I just can't grasp being impolite. ha! At least I can do a week. I'll start with that.
It is not being impolite. In fact the limited times you speak with him you should be very polite and upbeat. Give every indication you are happy when you do talk to him. That is what will confuse him when you do not reply. He will be telling himself 'she is happy when we talk, but she wont always talk to me.' and 'why is she so happy?' Remember, you are not ignoring him, you are just too busy to get back with him. You are doing many important things all of which occupy your limited time. You will get to him when you have free time.
Thanks very much pilot. I know I'll be back whining about this again soon, so apologies in advance!
Haha
I'm curious, when you went full NC has your H kept trying to contact you? That's what I struggle with. I can pretty much ignore him when he doesn't reach out to me, but when he does contact me I just feel so weird, rude and wrong not responding at all. I guess if I don't reply he will eventually 'get the picture' that I don't want to talk to him. How have you been handling that?
I wish that were the case, Lisa, but sadly, I have not heard BOO from my H since I went NC.
Hi Lisa! I hope you're having a good day and looking forward to going out of town!
A few posts back you said
This WAS behavior is so unpredictable. Add my moody crap in there too and you have a big mess. One minute I don't want him back, the next minute I'm crying over him, the next trying to flirt with another guy... I guess I can only console myself by realizing he is probably having similar crazy swings. That would explain his unpredictable communication and behaviors.
Thinking about all this brought up more questions about what I want, what are my goals, and how I can best reach them. And my constant questioning of how friendly and in contact to be. The little bit of friendly texting is good, I feel it builds a connection and allows me to show off some 180s and GALs. But then does it also alleviate his curiosity and desire to see me in person if he can get a little dose each day? I honestly can't tell. I guess I have to keep alternating NC and friendly in a random way and see what happens.
and it really resonated with me. Today I'm very much in the "I don't want him back" mood. Yesterday I was still in the "how could he do this to me" mood. Maybe tomorrow I'll be in the "flirt mildly with other men" mood (is that ok? should I do that? no?). It's so confusing and roller-coaster-y that it's hard to figure out which way is up just from my emotions let alone all the actual crap that's going on.
I think you are amazingly quick to see when you stumble off your path and you immediately get back on which I find admirable. You really are great at that.
I don't get friendly texts. I only get "daughter related" texts. I think just the fact that you're getting light-hearted texts is a GREAT sign. You're in his head a little. I'm jealous but I'm happy for you.
Thank goodness for this board, huh, Lisa? It's a great place to work things out and get kicked back onto our paths by people who truly want what we want. How amazing is that?
Right with you on the value of this board SS. And I agree, Lisa, you seem to be doing well with self observation and righting the ship.
Stay patient ladies!
Thanks Ss and Joe! Y'all are awesome!
I was feeling like I keep getting the same advice on here, especially from the guys. So I read back through my threads to see that advice again. Sure enough, I saw a lot of my whining about how do I do NC, should I be friendly or not, what do I say in response to him, what does it mean and that sort of thing. And the advice I was getting boiled down to:
-don't be too available
-show you are happy without him
-focus on yourself
I also see that I have been doing pretty well with that for the most part, with some major slip ups.
He is being friendly in order to keep me close. Which I am taking as a sign he wants to get back together. But the truth is he just doesn't know what he wants.
At this point I think I am too caught up in the moment by moment and day to day. I want this to be over NOW so I expect that any day he will call me up and say he wants me back. It has been about 2 months since BD. I think if he was going to quickly realize his mistake it would have happened in the first week or two. Since he was having a party in the pants of his coworker in the first few weeks, that didn't happen. So now I have to buckle down for the long haul since it will likely take quite a bit longer.
That means that I should move on with my life and not think about him every minute. That means maybe I do not need to get so obsessed over each communication opportunity. If we reunite it will be in months or years from now. He is on his journey, dating, experiencing being single, finding out who he is. As much as that is horrible for me, it gives me time to focus on my own life.
We have a few mutual friends who have recently reunited with partners that they split with months or years ago. I look at these couples and wonder what happened? Why did they split? Why did they reunite? I see some similarities with my current situation. But I know that it took time for the WAS to get to the place where THEY changed and wanted to reunite. They had to wake up from their foggy state and realize that the person they were originally with was amazing, but that took time, space and dating others. During this time the LBS was able to stay in touch with the WAS while still moving on with their life.
My takeaway from this is that I need to move on with my life. Don't stress about his every move, let him go about his business. Just be awesome myself. If he realizes that he made a mistake he will let me know.
That's my epiphany for the day. Stay tuned for the rollercoaster to throw us all for another loop!
Hugs to all, LisaB
That's a good epiphany, Lisa, and one I needed to hear.
I'm still really angry and disgusted with my H and not sure I could ever forgive him for leaving. But he's not asking me to right now so I can just go have a great life and quit worrying about it.
Thanks for the guidance.
Big hug to you Maybell. Crappy times on the rollercoaster.
Lisa,
Good to remember that. As 25yearsmlc 2x4ed me on earlier, just look at the timeline on some of the success stories around here. You're at just past 2 months, I'm at like 3 1/2...we're still both, barring some major luck, probably only just beginning our journey.
Try to remember that what you're doing is for you, no matter what happens w/ the M.
Stay strong. Which you are, so that shouldn't be too hard.
I'm still really angry and disgusted with my H and not sure I could ever forgive him for leaving. But he's not asking me to right now so I can just go have a great life and quit worrying about it.
I think this is going to sum it up perfectly the day H moves out. I'll hate him for it. And he won't care.
I have days when I am filled with hate and anger, and other days I am just so incredibly sad. But every day I still want him back, irrespective of all he's done.
It's true though, this board has been a lifesaver for me. On my down days, I read through all of your inspirational posts and advice and I think - yes I can really do this! I am going to be okay!
Hi all!
So NC is not for me apparently. My H texts me every day! While in an ideal world I would not reply, logistical reasons kind of dictate that I should respond.
He has stuff at my house. He wants his stuff I guess.
So this afternoon he simply texts me "are you going to be home tonight?"
I assume that is because he wants to pick something up. So I said
"I'll probably be home later unless I get lucky".
What a stupid question. Will you be home tonight? No, I am going to sleep in the street. Why not just say "can I come by later at 8pm to get my ...?" Why does it matter whether I will be home or not. What does "tonight" mean anyway? 6pm? 9pm?
While I thought about not responding at all to this dumb question, I have had enough of his nonsense. I have always loved the saying "if you ask a stupid question you will get a stupid answer".
So I gave a stupid answer.
Do you want to see me? Is that why you are asking if I will be home?
Do you want to pick up your stuff? Then just say what time you are coming and I'll say yes or no.
He replied to my text with "haha. Do you have a date?" To which I did not reply.
And he didn't come by the house to get his stuff (he has a key).
WHAT THE HELL DOES HE WANT FROM ME?
If he wants his stuff, why not just say that and come get it? If he wants to see me, why not just say that? What does he want?
Yes, thank you I know I replied in an immature and stupid way. But I don't care.
Hope you all are having a good one. I had a stressful day and an entertaining night. Hugs, Lisa
haha reading this again I realized a better reply to "Will you be home tonight?" would have been "Nope".
Oops.
Sometimes my sarcasm and sense of humor gets the best of me.
Haha. Just remember to keep your eye on the prize. And ask yourself before you ever text or email or say something to him, "does this help me get closer to my goal?'
Other than that, too funny
Maybe a reply of "yea, I am having a friend over, but if my door is shut and there is a shirt hanging from the door knob, please do not come in. I do not want it to get awkward.'
LOL yeah pilot, you are right. I didn't really have my eye on the prize, I was being a b!tch. I meant it as a joke, but over text it just sounds slutty and bitchy.
Who cares though, the a-hole dumped me, slept with his slut coworker and is now dating multiple girls online. Should I really care about being the image of purity, kindness and goodness?
OK, maybe I had a few too many drinks before texting. Someone take away my phone!
Lesson learned, don't drink and text. oops.
Lisa--update us if you can. Yours is an interesting story. I cannot figure how these nots work--everything seems like it's been on the board a long time--that's why I'd like an update from you...if your ready!
Thanks!
Meh, he asked. I, too, follow the "if you ask a stupid question prepare for a stupid response" motto.
Can't win em all. Just try to keep the balance in your favor.
Who cares though, the a-hole dumped me, slept with his slut coworker and is now dating multiple girls online. Should I really care about being the image of purity, kindness and goodness?
You care because you are here. And yea, absolutely maintain the image of purity, kindness, and goodness. Remember, you are doing this for you, not him. Your goal is for you to have a better life, which means you want to attract the best kind of guy (him or not) for you. Besides once he is out of his fog, who do you think he is going to pursue? The slut coworker or the good one (you)?
I totally get you were making a joke and being funny. But the answer is still the same
In fact, I am such a nice guy, I will help you out. When he dumps his slut coworker, to help keep her out of the picture, send me her number. Haha
Haha pilot!
I have been taking your advice and not responding to his messages. They aren't urgent, just trying to get my attention. I'm also out of town this weekend so I'm hoping that makes him curious about what I might be up to while on holiday. He has already been contacting me very friendly so I think it got his attention a bit!
Let's see how this NC goes! I feel rude not replying but I'm telling myself I'm busy having fun and I can contact him when I return home, if I feel like it!
As you all have been saying, he needs to be a little shocked into thinking I might be moving on. That I won't just be there waiting around for him to realize I'm the best.
Thanks everyone for your support! Hope you have a great weekend!
Hugs, Lisa B
Let's see how this NC goes! I feel rude not replying but I'm telling myself I'm busy having fun and I can contact him when I return home, if I feel like it!
I think you will find your feeling of rudeness will quickly be replaced with a feeling of empowerment. It is a good feeling for a LBS to have
Thanks pilot! I do indeed feel the power. Love it!!!
Hi all! Hope everyone is having a good weekend!
So we know it has to seem like you've moved on to make the WAS wake up and realize they may have lost you. People want what they can't have.
On the other hand, how many times has my WAH said it is over and done. Should I believe what he says?
DB wisdom says don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see. So if he says it is over I'm not supposed to believe it?
So if I seem like I'm moving on and I remove myself as backup then will that change anything? or is it really over? Or is this simply the only way I'll find out?
Since I haven't heard from him today I feel less confident. But I'm going to keep moving forward with my GAL and NC.
Hope everyone has a nice weekend!
Hugs,
Lisa
Lisa, I can't remember when BD for you was?
I've been struggling all day with whether I actually want to get back together with him. Is this the guy I want to be with when I'm 80?
So, whether or not you should believe him... Probably not.
The point isn't to play games. The point is to live the life you want whether or not he's in it. The less you look like you're waiting around for him the more it changes his idea of who you are. Meanwhile, you're finding happiness again either way.
Hi Maybell, yeah I see what you are saying. We LBS change our minds so the WAS could definitely change theirs as well. BD for me was around 6/15 and he moved out 6/30.
Also you are right about not playing games but to be honest I am in the fake it til you make it mode still. If I didn't 'play games' a bit then I would be showing up at his door in a trench coat and nothing else. Haha. Better that I be fake I think.
Of course I am doing my best to GAL and move on and enjoy life. But I do miss him. So when he contacts me I really want to answer!
Thanks for checking in with me. I hope you are having a good day! Hugs, Lisa
I'm having a GREAT weekend.
but there is a core of anxiety where H lives because it's an uncertain situation. It's not hard to torture ourselves, is it?
Your BD is so recent that just accept that as if is the right thing and try not to worry about the future till it manifests.
Very good advice that is very hard to follow, so basically, as you were, lady, you're doing great!
Yeah, Lisa, patience is the word here. Only really two months in. Be strong.
If I didn't 'play games' a bit then I would be showing up at his door in a trench coat and nothing else.
WTH. Why weren't you my wife? :P
As for your question of when your H says its over, and done, should you believe him. The answer is right now, yes. Right now, your H truly believes your M is over. That is why you are in the situation you are in. The catch is that in time, will that still be his belief? Someone posted that something like 80% give or take WAS end up with regrets in the future. Now if that is true or not, I have no idea. But I would not be surprised if many WAS who ended up D did not have regrets once they came out of their fog.
The trick for you Lisa is to have the patience to wait out the fog your husband is in. Now, you can do nothing and wait. You can mope and cry and wait, or you can work on yourself while you wait. The idea behind DB is to work on yourself and not necessarily wait, but not rush. In other words, accept the idea your H may truly leave you. So live your life as if he is. However, do nothing that will facilitate his leaving. The idea being is your H will want to rush to D right after BD. Since these things naturally take time, many WAS begin to have natural second thoughts, and become less in a rush. If you work on yourself in a way that your H notices and contradicts his negatives about you, he begins to think that maybe you really are not as bad as he has built you up. As his fog lifts he realizes that you really are an awesome catch and realizes the error of his ways, and wants to work to get YOU back.
Of course, that is how it is SUPPOSED to work. Every situation is different. My guess is that your H will have second thoughts at some point. You are still relatively new to this. And I KNOW that stinks to hear because to you it seems like an eternity already, and you want something to happen soon. So your best course of action to keep you from watching the clock is to go GAL. Do something else besides dwell on your H and what he is doing. Otherwise it is like watching a pot of water waiting for it to boil, and keeping your hand in it at the same time. Slow and painful!
If I didn't 'play games' a bit then I would be showing up at his door in a trench coat and nothing else.
WTH. Why weren't you my wife? :P
As for your question of when your H says its over, and done, should you believe him. The answer is right now, yes. Right now, your H truly believes your M is over. That is why you are in the situation you are in. The catch is that in time, will that still be his belief? Someone posted that something like 80% give or take WAS end up with regrets in the future. Now if that is true or not, I have no idea. But I would not be surprised if many WAS who ended up D did not have regrets once they came out of their fog.
The trick for you Lisa is to have the patience to wait out the fog your husband is in. Now, you can do nothing and wait. You can mope and cry and wait, or you can work on yourself while you wait. The idea behind DB is to work on yourself and not necessarily wait, but not rush. In other words, accept the idea your H may truly leave you. So live your life as if he is. However, do nothing that will facilitate his leaving. The idea being is your H will want to rush to D right after BD. Since these things naturally take time, many WAS begin to have natural second thoughts, and become less in a rush. If you work on yourself in a way that your H notices and contradicts his negatives about you, he begins to think that maybe you really are not as bad as he has built you up. As his fog lifts he realizes that you really are an awesome catch and realizes the error of his ways, and wants to work to get YOU back.
Of course, that is how it is SUPPOSED to work. Every situation is different. My guess is that your H will have second thoughts at some point. You are still relatively new to this. And I KNOW that stinks to hear because to you it seems like an eternity already, and you want something to happen soon. So your best course of action to keep you from watching the clock is to go GAL. Do something else besides dwell on your H and what he is doing. Otherwise it is like watching a pot of water waiting for it to boil, and keeping your hand in it at the same time. Slow and painful!
WOW, Pilot this ^^^^ is all so Very well said.
And there is a study out about divorce and in that survey,
the recipients were asked 5 YEARS AFTER a divorce that THEY had sought out, whether they believed the Divorce was "mostly a mistake" or "mostly Not" a mistake AND OR whether they'd do the same thing again, or if "knowing what they know now", whether they wished they had stayed and worked it out.
A tad over 80% of men who filed for divorce, later felt they had "mostly" made a mistake AND OR or that "they could have tried harder to make it work and knowing what they know now, they would choose to stay married"...
About bit over half of women who filed, felt they had made "mostly a mistake" AND OR that "knowing what they know now, they'd choose to stay married and make it work."
Based on the uneven number of gender, I think the average was about 75% of the total of thoose who filed, regretted it.
Point is, as much as people whine about the high divorce rate here, seems to me another statistic is that most people who file for divorce REGRET - NOT the marriage -- but the divorce.
Just some food for thought.
And yes you MUST GAL or you will not detach.
And if you do Not detach,
you will go nuts, and perhaps worse is that any 180s or progress you make will be Reversed...
Be as happy as you can be, as soon as you can be.
Trust what we say about how to get there, and give us feedback about what is working and what's not working to get you there
Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own happiness,
and so we all must learn to take charge of that, asap. It's needed, it's healthy and there is simply no decent alternative.
Here is a short piece on Detachment.
II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done.
Our ego gets wounded and then we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
We cannot control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.
If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not indifference or withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am Not getting what I want, so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."
Pilot & 25 - great posts.
I'm also having trouble detaching. It feels like week 1 again. Plus, I have a question on my thread that maybe you could help me with.
Hang in there Lisa. I really appreciate your posts on my thread. It's so hard, but we can do it.
25, When you have a moment, could you drop by my thread? I need your wise words for a dilemma I'm facing. TKs.
Thank you pilot, 25 and others for your thoughtful and helpful words! All very true.
I am doing my best to GAL. I have a terrific social life, I'm taking a language class, I'm going on weekend trips, I'm looking for a new job and working on lots and lots of side projects. I'm definitely busy and having a good time. GAL is not too difficult for me as I was the "fun one" in the relationship, the one maintaining friendships and always planning activities.
I have a bit harder time with 180s and detaching. The main thing my H complained about at BD was that I was boring. Well, I am not boring. But I see what he meant in that we took the relationship for granted and we were lazy trying to maintain the passion and excitement. So my 180s (that would interest him) are being more mysterious and independent. I guess the way to convey this 180 is to be distant yet happy with my life.
Thanks to you all and MWD I have gotten great advice on how to do that. The only thing I need to do is put it into action on a day to day basis. Sometimes it's hard.
I hope everyone is having a great weekend!
Hugs, Lisa
Hi all, a little advice wanted!
So my H was texting and contacting me a lot with just little random comments for the past week. I wasn't responding, trying to keep NC as many of you recommended.
Then he texted yesterday telling me again that he had some mail for me and wanted to pick something up from my house, and asked if he could come by my house to drop it off one day this week.
I replied that he could come by on Thursday and his stuff was sitting on the table (hinting that I wouldn't be there but that he could come get his stuff).
He started responding more coldly. Very vague. I still didn't know whether he simply wanted his stuff or whether he wanted to see me. I felt if he wanted to see me he should simply ask me to do something together, not use a pretense of dropping off mail. So I told him to just digitally scan the mail and email it to me, and that I would drop off his things at his house when he was at work. To this he responded that I should come by his house Thursday when he was there.
I'm confused. I have been doing NC. It seems to have made him curious. After a while of being curious and friendly he seems to get insecure and start being unfriendly.
So now it seems he is in unfriendly mode. But at the same time I don't get the whole story with picking up and dropping off his things. If he wanted to give me the mail he could always drop it off in my mailbox anytime. If he wanted to pick up his things he could have come by any time in the last 2 weeks (he has keys and I was out of town). So I feel the whole thing is a subtext for seeing me?!? But then why not just ask to see me?
I really don't get it. And the thing I need help with is how to deal with him. He seems to be trying to manipulate me.
Tomorrow is when he wants to pick up his things. What do you think I should do?
1. be home and greet him and exchange the items, be friendly and say hi, give him his stuff and then say bye?
2. not be home and let him drop off and pick up the things?
3. drop off his item at his house (while he is at work) since I will be in the neighborhood?
4. drop off his item/pick up my item at his house when he is home in the afternoon? Say hi and bye? See his new place?
5. none of the above
I am super confused. He has been super friendly. Then he became cold. He doesn't really want his item or he could have gotten it any time. So what is this sudden interest in picking up his item and dropping off my mail (that he could scan)? And what do I do about it?
I feel he wants to see me, but he isn't willing to ask me to do something together. So he pretends that he wants to exchange the items. But what does he want? Does he simply want to see me so that he can...? what?
I know this is such a trivial thing but I am very confused and confounded by it.
Advice appreciated. Hugs, Lisa
I vote 1 - but that is possibly because from my vantage point, any contact with H would be better than what I have currently!
2 - possibly, but why not go for 1 and have an opportunity to see him, show off the new you and assess where he is at in the flesh (vs over text)
3 - no, you are bending too far here
4 - no, would probably mess with my head too much
Thanks ganb8te! The only advantage to #4 over #1 is that I then have the control of dropping the stuff off at his place and then saying "ok I gotta go". Otherwise I feel I am just hanging out at home while he "stops by" and then takes off. I then look like I am just a loser hanging out at home without any plans.
But maybe I am overthinking... I guess I could be all dressed up sexy when he comes by like I am going out afterward. Or I could be baking cookies or something.
Dress like you have plans...and actually have plans.
Maybe I'm no fun but I'm a say-what-you-mean kind of person so I'd flat out ask him, Dude, you need your stuff and I need my mail so what do you want to do here? If he dances around it I'd say, I'll leave your stuff on the porch and just mail me my mail. Done. Easy peasy BUUUUT, why not use this as an opportunity to let him have a glimpse of how great you're doing?
So, I'm in favor of #1 like this:
You, causally beautiful, smelling nice, music on, perfume, glass of wine, curled up on the couch with a good book. You don't nee to be OUT to show you're GAL and doing well.
He comes in, chats a sec, gives you your mail, you point out his stuff... now the business is done. Now what?
If the convo starts up naturally, awesome. If you're looking for an out, you can say, "well, thanks for bringing my mail, I appreciate it. I'm actually having a friend over for a glass of wine so...." or "I'm actually meeting someone for a drink in a few so I appreciate you bringing my mail but I've gotta jet" or something implying you are grounded, kind, able to be alone but still busy and fun loving. Get it?
Either one of the 2 below....
I think the best one is to drop off his item when he isn't home.. Then wait for him to contact you again... Cool, confident, mysterious. That's what attracts a man to you.
Don't change what is working. You said yourself that he has been texting and contacting you a lot about random things lately... It is best to let him wonder why you aren't so eager to see him... That way if it really IS an excuse to just contact you, then he will have to find another excuse.
You are on the right track here now. Do what works.
2. not be home and let him drop off and pick up the things?
3. drop off his item at his house (while he is at work) since I will be in the neighborhood?
ou, causally beautiful, smelling nice, music on, perfume, glass of wine, curled up on the couch with a good book. You don't nee to be OUT to show you're GAL and doing well.
No, you don't NEED to be, but it is far better to be out.
Cool, confident busy women are attractive to men. You do realize that men actually sometimes like the "thrill of the chase" don't you and get bored with the same ole same ole?
I would advise you to be gone. Out and about. Busy woman. Attractive busy woman....Confident, mysterious, attractive busy woman....
Lisa Lisa...Haha, DB forum up just in time. I will tell you why he is using the pretense of wanting to get stuff to see you. And I am fairly certain I am right because I do this all the time. He wants an excuse to see you, but not admit it. He wants an out to keep himself from 'putting himself out there'. Same way even now I may ask my W when she is around if she 'wants to go feed the kids out somewhere'. It means I want to spend time with my W but I do not want to admit to her, so if she says no, it is no sweat off my back. Guys are very fragile when it comes to possible rejection. He does not want you to know what his real motive is, but the flaw in that (even my) plan is that is usually is pretty transparent. During happy times in my M I would use jokes as my cover. If I wanted sex and I was unsure of her mood, I would make a joke or in some way hint at it or make a reference, but if she was not receptive, I could just pretend I really didnt want it. Sure, it would have been much easier, and probably more successful to just ask. But when we get told no, we have to carry that shame if you will.
Your H is in unfriendly mode because he is pouting. Pure and simple. I did the same thing at times. When we as guys do not get our way, we pout. Your H probably was expecting you to jump at the chance to see him, and for all we know, that may be ALL he wanted. Just to know you wanted to see him. Now he is finding out that you are not jumping, and even worse, seem indifferent to the idea of even seeing him. You are turning out to not be a reliable Plan B. And that probably has him bothered. In the past, did your H exhibit this kind of behavior and you would cave or go along with what he wanted? If so, maybe he is resorting to something that used to work for him. I read somewhere that often times WAS will go from indifferent to angry before they get to wanting to work on things. At least something like that.
While I cannot say for certain, I would say your H is worried about where YOU are emotionally at this point. You are not crying over him anymore, and you do not seem to want to see him at his convenience. Next thing you know he will actually have to work at having any kind of relationship with you. As for what to do, I would probably go with 2. As much as I know you want to see him and I do get the whole idea of showing off the new you in front of him, I would make him work a little harder than 'let me get my mail' if he wants an opportunity to see you. Be friendly and upbeat. You can even make plans with him that you will be there. But when you know he is on his way, you can text that you had some last minute plans come up with some new friends and for him to just leave the stuff on the counter and pick up what he needed. Wanna talk about a mind job??? He will be disappointed for sure, regardless of what his intentions really are. I say this because he will have assumed you would be there, and now you are not. So he will have to come up with a new way to see you.
No to 1 because you cannot control when he leaves without being rude.
No to 3 for the reason ss gave. Why should you be running errands for him
No to 4 because who wants to see their S new place
Just my thoughts...
Thank you Joe, Ss and pilot for checking in! Great advice!
I was originally going with option #2 (not being home) , as that is what I feel most comfortable with. I just do not like the idea of seeing him in the house we previously shared, going through his stuff and then taking off. That is why I have always avoided him in the past when he came by.
But then as some of you said, it could be a good way to see him, "take his temperature" and show him what he's missing. But it could be super awkward too as pilot mentioned.
Unfortunately there is now another kink in my story...
So if any of you recall, when my WAH left, he ran straight into the arms (legs) of his slutty coworker OW. But then it did not seem that they started a relationship.
Eventually I confronted him that I knew about OW, and he denied it. Then he admitted it vaguely without admitting anything specific. But he told me over and over that they were not dating and would not be dating and had not been dating. He also said that I was "not easily replaced". Well, today I found out that he is still sleeping with her. Turns out that he would like an exclusive relationship, but she is not interested. So he is dating and sleeping with others and I guess she is too. STD city! But he and OW are still spending time together, eating together, sleeping together, snuggling, etc.
So #1, he didn't exactly lie to me, but he tried to deny and cover up that he dumped me and wanted a relationship with OW. He said again and again that it was just over between us and there was not anyone else. Lie. The truth is he did dump me for her, but she doesn't want him for a serious relationship. So technically they are not dating but not because of his choice.
And #2, this confuses me about his behavior toward me. If OW and other girls are in the picture, perhaps I have been misreading his behavior toward me? Why is he still texting me all the time? Is it only because OW doesn't want him for a boyfriend? Am I backup? Or am I just misreading friendzone messages?
I feel crappy finding out this news. I thought it was over between them but I guess he is not getting what he wants with OW, which is a more serious relationship, but he is still seeing her often. In fact, he was with her last night.
At least knowing this makes it easier to decide what to do about this "stuff pick up" situation. And that is avoid him and don't do him any favors.
I am also feeling the same as many of you and don't know if I want him back anyway, especially after learning he is chasing OW still. That just disgusts me.
Yesterday I saw some old friends that I hadn't seen in a while and told them the news that we split up. They were surprised but then said that they never thought he was right for me, that he was too boring and not dynamic enough. Interesting.
I hope you all are having a better day than I am. Thanks for reading my babbling story.
Hugs, Lisa
First, I am sorry you are having to deal with this. I know how bad it stinks when your S is having an A and you have to basically sit and watch it happen. No worse feeling in the world. So I really feel for ya.
As for your #2, please try not to figure this out. You will never get it right, and all it will do is pull you into sad and depressing thoughts. I know you want answers, and I will try to tell ya how I see it from a guy's perspective. I may not be right, but maybe it will help. After that...no more mind reading!!!
I suspect your H is texting you because you are still his Plan B. Your revelation about OW not wanting to be his full time gf really points to this. He got rejected, and you were the one he fell back to. He wanted comfort and emotional security. Same as I would do...as I discussed in my thread. When I would get out of a relationship I would fall back to an ex or a safe bet where I could not have to deal with any void and move on quicker. Your H probably chose you as that fall back. You say he is off getting sex with all these other women, but I can tell you that having sex with a woman is NOT any proof of emotional attachment. I suspect your H's sex life is strictly physical. His emotional bank seemed to be at the mercy of OW, not his other sexual partners. When she dumped him (sorta) he seemingly turned to you. In other words, if he had any emotional involvement with the sex partners, you would not have been the one he was texting. My guess he is in a way experiencing what a LBS does with OW at this point. I suspect he is becoming more and more clingy and pursuing simply because he is feeling he is losing her and hey, what do we LBS do when we realize that? Perhaps this could be the beginning of the end? Who knows. But you do have a pretty good idea his life is not as happy as he would want it to be right now. And that bodes well for you...
Chin up!!
Hi pilot, thanks! Yeah I think I see what you mean. I don't think she dumped him but I guess he is just not getting what he wants from her. Basically he likes her more than she likes him but she is still seeing him/sleeping with him.
I guess it makes sense that if it isn't going great with her he will look for emotional/physical comfort with me and other "ladies". And since I haven't been offering him very much comfort he started to become a bit more clingy toward me. Something like "I want love! I know, I'll call up Lisa, she loves me. Oh wait, it seems Lisa doesn't care about me and is moving on with her life?! What is going on? I need to get her attention!"
I guess he feels I am his backup plan B. But sorry WAH, I am no one's plan B.
This is so crappy... I thought things were going pretty well.
Yea, but that is why they call it a roller coaster. One day great, the next...terrible. The question is how long can we hang on to this ride? It is not easy at all and I know I feel more and more jaded each day. Today for example, I kept muttering to myself "what does she have to offer in a marriage? Fidelity? No. Loyalty? No" I do not know why, but I was hung up on this all day. Could be a product of my mood. But this is why we have to detach. So days like this do not affect our lives. We get in a funk because we allow things like this and our spouses actions to affect us negatively. Easier said than done, and even the best detachers still feel the sting every now and then.
True pilot. True. I'm not as upset as I would have been a few weeks ago, so I guess I have achieved some detachment!
I did think things were going well and that is why I am extra disappointed at this OW news. But as you say, this rollercoaster is making me jaded. I wanted to believe my WAH is the loyal, wonderful, kind, sweet, loving person I married. But that person is GONE. He is a liar, he is confused, he is lost. I want nothing to do with this new person. He has nothing good to offer me. When I think of him I feel disgust and pity.
Then the moments come where I remember the sweet and loving H, and I am so sad that he died.
The fog is thick. I thought it was clearing but apparently not. Hang on for the rollercoaster to continue. Unless we get off...
In a weird and twisted way it does make me feel a bit better that he is still doing it with OW. To be honest, I was mystified why he did not try to get back together with me already. Why he at least did not try to have sex with me. I guess that sounds arrogant but let's be honest, I'm pretty terrific. And if he was all alone I was amazed at his self control not calling me all the time and wanting to have the comfort of my company.
But since he is still involved with OW and in that fog, he is not really thinking of me that way at this point. He is trying to comfort himself with her. Replace our marriage with a relationship with her, that he sees as potentially better than ours.
I'm guessing if she does something really bad or he gets disgusted with her for some reason that he will then be trying to get back with me. I need to be on the lookout for that, I don't want to be the rebound - it's worse than backup!
Hope everyone is having a good day/evening.
Hugs, Lisa
Haha, interesting way of looking at it. So by that logic since my W is NOT with OM, but not trying to jump my bones, I must be pretty awful. :P
But seriously quit trying to figure out what is going on in his mind. I know you want to but stop. You are going to drive yourself nuts and you most likely won't be right.
... but let's be honest, I'm pretty terrific.
All right, now there's a PMA to be proud of.
Your WAH may be chasing other women, sounds desperate to me, but how is he getting on there I wonder.
And for the last couple of pages ... what Pilot said.
haha! Pilot and Old Dog you gave me a good chuckle.
Saw the WAH today. Tried to get out of it every which way. He said he needed his things and wanted to give me my mail. He suggested we meet somewhere near my work, or at my house. I said no. He said I should come by his office on my way... or maybe we should meet for a coffee. I started to sound ridiculous trying to get out of it. So I finally just agreed to meet him at my house.
I guess he REALLY wanted to see me but did not want to just say "hey let's meet".
We ended up hugging twice which I was trying to avoid as I don't think he deserves to touch me. The first time he really squeezed me like he normally used to. Was a bit strange to hug him since I am really annoyed with him. But we talked about random stuff for a while and after about 5 minutes I forgot I was annoyed with him and just had a nice time chatting for about 20 minutes.
I am moving to a new house, as I mentioned before. He again offered his help, multiple times. I didn't really say anything in reply.
Our dynamic was very friendly I would say, he smiled and laughed a lot. But I am so irritated that he is still chasing after this OW. If I didn't know about that I would feel quite positive about his behavior toward me.
We are both supposed to go to the same party this weekend. He asked if I was going and I told him I was not sure. If we both go it could be a good opportunity for him to see me in a social setting and possibly flirting with other guys. On the other hand I might have to watch him flirting with girls. But it could also be a good way for us to possibly have some casual fun together and bond a little.
I am torn about whether to go or not. What do you think?
Any thoughts? Advice? I appreciate it.
Hugs, LisaB
We ended up hugging twice which I was trying to avoid as I don't think he deserves to touch me. The first time he really squeezed me like he normally used to. Was a bit strange to hug him since I am really annoyed with him. But we talked about random stuff for a while and after about 5 minutes I forgot I was annoyed with him and just had a nice time chatting for about 20 minutes.
I am moving to a new house, as I mentioned before. He again offered his help, multiple times. I didn't really say anything in reply.
Our dynamic was very friendly I would say, he smiled and laughed a lot. But I am so irritated that he is still chasing after this OW. If I didn't know about that I would feel quite positive about his behavior toward me.
We are both supposed to go to the same party this weekend. He asked if I was going and I told him I was not sure. If we both go it could be a good opportunity for him to see me in a social setting and possibly flirting with other guys. On the other hand I might have to watch him flirting with girls. But it could also be a good way for us to possibly have some casual fun together and bond a little.
I am torn about whether to go or not. What do you think?
Any thoughts? Advice? I appreciate it.
Hugs, LisaB
Holy crap it is like the twilight zone here. Your interactions with your H mirror the ones with my W it seems.
I am glad you got through your meeting just fine, and yea, I know you probably felt good about it afterwards, as I normally do.
As for your party, I would definitely go. Yes, it would be a great time for your H to see you out socially AND see you interact with other people. Trust me, the scales are tilted in your favor. Yea, your H MAY flirt with other girls, but other guys will flirt with you. He has to make the effort on the other girls while other guys will be making the effort on you. Just make sure you are dressed to kill, look super hot, purfume, you know, the works. But whatever you do, do NOT spend your time with your H. This is your time to let him see what life without you will be like. He has to know how it feels to see you at your best and NOT be able to go home with you or occupy your time. Critical party IMO. I would bet that if he does see other people taking an interest in you, he will want to take you away from that. Be polite, super happy and nice with him, but treat him as if he was a stranger who has herpes. He has no chance at taking you home.
Best of luck!!!
And if by some miracle, he should pull. You will be able to brush it off with your detaching skills (which he doesn't posses) and wonder which STD will be transmitted this time.
And if by some miracle, he should pull. You will be able to brush it off with your detaching skills (which he doesn't posses) and wonder which STD will be transmitted this time.
Hahaha @ OId Dog. Pull. I have not heard or used that term in a long long time. You made my day buddy!!!
And yea, I guess we can start a DB forum pool for Lisa's H on what shows up on his test at the clinic. Haha, sorry Lisa :P
LOL that is horrible Old Dog and Pilot. Y'all are mean.
OK, thanks for the advice guys! I think I will indeed go to the party and I will pull. haha whatever that means. I think it is a super British term, my London friends use it. Love it. Thanks OD!
So, got a text message from WAH a few hours later "Was great seeing you. You look great!"
HAHAHA! What the f? A very unexpected and unusual message from him.
I look great? Duh. The best part was I wore jeans with holes, old sneakers and a tshirt, my hair in a ponytail. Sometimes that is hot though, I suppose. Effortless sexy as they would say in Cosmo.
Feeling good. All his stupid little sluts don't have anything on me.
Thanks everyone for your support. Big love and big hugs, LisaB
What DOES pull mean? I need this explained!
Lisa,
I love that you weren't all fancy but he still took the time to tell you that you looked great. He didn't have to send that but he did.
Hang in there. Keep your PMA up!
Thanks Ss!
Maybe OD can explain it better but I think "pull" means to attract someone to the point that they go home with you. As in "yeah I went out last night and I pulled this babe and we went to my place and did it" or "tonight I hope to pull" aka "get lucky".
I felt the message saying I looked great was totally surprising and bizarre, but I think following the advice of you all really works. And for that I thank you with all my heart. Even if I never reunite with my WAH, the advice I get here really helps my confidence and self-esteem. I feel I have an idea what to do, rather than just stumbling around in the dark by myself.
Y'all are the BEST!
Hugs, LisaB
I think following the advice of you all really works. And for that I thank you with all my heart. Even if I never reunite with my WAH, the advice I get here really helps my confidence and self-esteem. I feel I have an idea what to do, rather than just stumbling around in the dark by myself.
Y'all are the BEST!
I could not second this more heartily.
Got it! Thanks for the explanation, Lisa!
I agree with you about the advice received from here. Being in our situations is SO painful I can't see how I'd get through it without this board of MWD's books. Honestly, I don't want to think about the path my life would have gone without those things.
Maybe OD can explain it better but I think "pull" means to attract someone to the point that they go home with you. As in "yeah I went out last night and I pulled this babe and we went to my place and did it" or "tonight I hope to pull" aka "get lucky".
Nailed it!
You could also use 'score' or 'cop off'.
Not that I have ever used any of those terms. They're not derogatory as such, just common slang whn you're bragging with your mates - male or female.
Hi all, just babbling some more.
Thinking a bit about the OW. Getting annoyed.
She doesn't want a relationship with him, but he wants one with her. So he feels a bit rejected. And yet they are still having sex, having dinners together, talking, being friends with benefits.
He is not with me, in part because of his feelings for her. But he is also not with her, and doesn't really expect to be with her in the future, although maybe he hopes it will happen. But he is still into her. And he is still with her as friends with benefits.
This seems like some kind of limbo to me.
Does their stupid half-assed relationship have to play out before he can come out of his fog? Is there anything I can do?
I know this is basically a rhetorical question as the only things I can do are GAL, PMA, NC, seem like I moved on...
Does anyone whose WAS was in an A want to weigh in with advice for me?
Hugs, LisaB
She doesn't want a relationship with him, but he wants one with her. So he feels a bit rejected. And yet they are still having sex, having dinners together, talking, being friends with benefits.
He is not with me, in part because of his feelings for her. But he is also not with her, and doesn't really expect to be with her in the future, although maybe he hopes it will happen. But he is still into her. And he is still with her as friends with benefits.
This seems like some kind of limbo to me.
Does their stupid half-assed relationship have to play out before he can come out of his fog? Is there anything I can do?
Hugs, LisaB
I feel like I am hogging your thread with replies
The simple answer is yes, you have to wait. Right now your H is finding out what it is like to be a LBS. He is learning he cannot have what he wants, and this in turn will make him want her more. I think I said before just because they are still having sex, dinners, etc. right now does not mean all things are peachy on that front. She could be looking for a way out, he could be pursuing extra hard, she may feel bad right now, she may feel annoyed. You simply do not know. All you do know is she does not want him long term, and he wants her long term. That usually is a death sentence for a relationship. All that is left is the execution. So in that regards, all of this is a positive. I am sure you do not see how having your H begging another woman for a relationship as a positive as I KNOW it hurts, but your H is finding out right now about the grass not being greener. Things are not as perfect as he thought they were going to be.
Now do not quote me in that his A is going to end soon. I merely think odds are it will but anything can happen.
Best thing you can do is NOT think about OW. I catch myself thinking about my W's affair at times and all it does is make me sick to think I would even want her back. All we do when we think of OW/OM/A is allow our emotions to dictate our feelings. We already know about OW/OM/A so why dwell on it? Just keep at your GAL and keep that PMA.
Remember, even when the A ends, that does NOT automatically mean your spouse will come running. If and when they do come out of that fog, they may be ridden with guilt and be afraid there is not more relationship chance. They will also be fresh out of an A and the fog and still have done NO work on themselves. Getting them out of the A and the fog is just a step, not the endgame.
Keep at it!
Thanks P! I always really appreciate your perspective. You hit it on the head again I think.
I feel like he is unhappy with the situation with her, but that it is still playing out. So yeah, I guess I just have to wait.
I don't think he will come running back the minute it is over with her. But the chances seem good that at least he might start thinking about "us" again.
The NC and acting like I have moved on that you all recommended seem to be making him more interested in me. So I will try to keep at it.
Thanks pilot!
Hugs, Lisa
Keep on keeping on Lisa. You're doing well in all of this and you never know when the fog will lift and a corner will be turned.
Sometimes things seem worst right before improving.
Hi DB friends!
Thanks Joe for your encouragement!
Went to the party today where WAH was also a guest. I have to say it went pretty wonderfully I think.
I arrived first and was talking to a handsome guy when WAH arrived. Said hello and then basically ignored him and went back to talking to handsome guy.
To make a long story short, WAH was all over me the whole party. I was talking to all the guests, most of whom I didn't know, and whenever I would be chatting with a guy, suddenly I would feel a tap on my shoulder and WAH would be right there offering me a drink or some food or trying to get into the conversation. Too hilarious.
I felt very confident the whole time that WAH was interested and engaged with me. He was all over me.
I felt like he was acting like my very best and closest friend. Following me around, trying to get me to do funny things with him, taking food and drink out of my hand and drinking/eating it, offering me food and drink. Everything was "normal" like the old days other than he didn't really try to kiss me. But he did many times put his hand on my waist in an intimate way while we were talking.
At the end of the party things got quite wild. It was a pool party and people were swimming, getting drunk and having a good time. I decided I had enough and left without saying goodbye to WAH. An hour or so later I got a text message saying "I guess you left, have a good day"
DB friends, I feel good about it. I did my best to seem happy, confident and not to care too much about him. I think I did well.
We shall see what is next but I expect that within a few months he will be suggesting we reunite. I just feel it in my gut that he is not sure. Things are not going well with OW and he misses me. I think he sees my changes and is intrigued. But we shall see, things can change.
BD friends, keep me in your thoughts!
Hugs, Lisa
A+ on the execution at the party. Clearly he wanted you by his side last night, especially when he saw you chatting w/ other guys.
Message sent. Now sit back and wait for him to come crawling back to you.
Fantastic work Lisa!
Thanks Joe for the A+! It's been a long time since I got a good grade!
I feel good about how I pulled off the party. I was nervous about whether I would feel horribly jealous or if I would be anxiously trying to get his attention the whole time. It's possible that those two feelings were his domain instead.
I will say that I noticed a few behaviors from him that I did not like which made me wonder if I want to be with him anyway. He is very immature. Also when he wasn't next to me he was constantly on his cellphone sending messages to who knows who. It's not that I was jealous of who he was messaging, it's more that I'm not into that kind of behavior.
You are at a party. Talk to the people at the party and enjoy yourself. Don't spend the whole time texting on your phone about how cool you are at the party! I find it pathetic validation and attention seeking behavior and he has been doing it a lot more in the past 6 months.
Other than that I had a great time at the party and even met a few guys. No one special but it was fun to flirt.
Hope everyone is having a nice weekend!
Hugs, Lisa
Wow, Lisa! You are oozing confidence. I love it. Such a great job!
Lisa. Is your H a very social guy? If not, is it possible he uses the phone as a crutch for those moments when no one is talking to him?
I know I am guilty of that. Until I have had a few drinks, I am very shy. If he was already feeling uncomfortable because you were having so much fun, and he's a bit of an introvert, he may have turned to his phone just for lack of something better to do...?
Lisa Dear, I have been following your thread and watching how much you've changed for the best...yourself. Your courage and your journey is an inspiration to many here on these boards. Though we all have our own Sitch, your willingness to share your journey is giving many insights to everyone here, me included. You have DBers here that are giving you superior opinions. Pilot, OldDog, and others are heaven sent in these lost dark times. From a guys point of view, Pilot is pretty much spot on. With this, I truly do thank them and you. Stay your course and keep pushing that PMA that you found in you.
I second Vossy. It could be a sign he is feeling uncomfortable.
Thanks cq1! It is nice to hear good things about one's self.
Lisa, you are doing great. I knew your H would be a puppy dog around you. And as much as i know you are feeling great about the prospects of reuniting, and as much as I really really hope you get there, I want to just say do not read too much into his actions. I say this because his actions at the party were based on jealousy. And jealousy is NOT a foundation for a lasting relationship. His fear of someone else having you is not a strong enough basis to keep a M together.
Now, that being said, what he did exhibit was really good news for you. It showed he does still care about you and he does still have feelings for you. He has not detached from you and moved on as you might have previously thought. Your task now is to use what you have learned and find a way to light the pathway home for your H. Harder than it sounds though. Because right now your H has not done any work on himself. And for all we know, he may still not be ready to R.
Lisa you know I am 100% in your corner and I am not trying to bring you down off your PMA right now. I just wanted you to be aware of how a guy thinks. You played the party off perfectly. Now that a day or two has passed, your H is either having second thoughts about his actions and losing you, or he may not be having any thoughts at all anymore. You are once again, out of sight out of mind. By that I mean at the party, you were the best 'option' there in his eyes. Now that he is not at the party, that 'option' is no longer being dangled in front of him. Think of it this way. It is much easier to say 'no, I do not care to have steak for dinner tonight' before you throw one on the grill. But take a nice steak off the grill and put it in front of you and try saying no to it. I want you to savor your great efforts, but I want you to also temper expectations. To declare you believe he will want to reconcile because of one party potentially sets you up for a heart break. But more importantly, the expectation could potentially affect your DB efforts which you have been doing so well at. Sandi often cautions LBSs to NOT jump at positive signs too soon, and notes that many who do, end up doing a lot of back tracking. Remember, it took a lot to get the WAS to where they are now, and it will take a lot for them to come back.
Again Lisa, please do not take my post as negative. Let's just look at it as you won a big game this weekend. Celebrate, but come Monday morning, you have a brand new game to prepare for.
Hi all! Thank you so much for your encouragement and words of wisdom!
It is great to hear from you cq1! How are you doing?
Thank you to vossy and claire for that insight about the cell phone usage. He is an introvert, so that does make sense. It is just super irritating to be talking to someone who is always checking their phone and texting. Maybe that is his way of saying "you are not important" or maybe it is that he feels uncomfortable and doesn't know what to say so he looks at his phone.
Pilot, I completely agree with you. I didn't mean to sound like we would be reuniting tomorrow. I more meant that I feel he is having second thoughts or feelings for me which could lead to him trying to reunite. But we are nowhere near that point. Indeed he has done 0 work on himself, in fact has become worse than he was to begin with. And it would be very difficult for me to trust and love him again. Thank you for the insight and tips! Always the best!
Indeed the game has already changed yet again. We met for a coffee today and it turns out WAH is now angry with me. One of the guys I met at the party was drunkenly dancing with me later in the evening. And of course then he tried to kiss me, several times. I didn't resist very much but I walked away afterward. I did not think anyone saw it since it was in a dark crowded room but apparently WAH did. He told me it wasn't nice of me to kiss someone in front of him, and that we need to set rules for when we are around each other. I could have defended myself, explained, told him it's the pot calling the kettle black... but I didn't. I simply said I understand and am sorry he was upset.
In a way I do feel badly about it. Of course I would not like it at all if he did it.
But if he wondered if I was moving on, now he knows. That could be good news.
On the other hand he is very aggressively dating. I think he has 2 or 3 dates per week, including the OW. How stupid is that for a guy who said he wanted to break up because he wanted to be alone and find his independence. He is sickeningly lonely and looking for comfort. I don't get this whole adventure. Why dump me only to look for a crappier replacement me?
In addition to all the above, WAH is now posting photos on facebook of the party and tagging me as a fellow guest. I guess he wants to show the world that he is popular, but why include me? Maybe to throw it in the face of OW. Who knows.
Well, the adventure continues! Never a dull moment around here.
Hugs to all, LisaB
It could very well be to throw it in the face of OW, especially since things are not going well. Perhaps he is trying to make her jealous. But that is all mind reading, so no point in dwelling. Of course your H is angry with you. But I bet he is more angry with himself. His anger comes from the realization that you are no longer 'his'. He has wanted to have his cake (ok, lets call it cupcakes since there are many) and icing as well. But make no mistake, at that party he was definitely second guessing himself. Your job is to continue to make him second guess now that the party is over. You did well by validating his statement about you kissing someone in front of him. You definitely could have taken that in the pot calling the kettle direction, and I think you showed tremendous maturity and restraint by validating and understanding. So kuddos.
I know it goes back into mindreading, but remember, a guy dating 2 or 3 times a week with multiple partners is extremely selfish. In other words, these are not going to be lasting relationships, as he is not offering anything by doing this that another woman is going to jump at long term. Perhaps OW has already seen this. He is looking to have his own needs met, pure and simple. I would not even suggest he is looking for your replacement so to speak but a bandaid for his journey. You definitely seem awesome to us here, your personality comes through in spades in your postings, so yea, it seems replacing you would be an uphill climb for him. But there is a flip side you may want to consider if you are really wanting to dive into what 'may' be going on in his mind.
*adult theme disclaimer* What your H is doing is something quite honestly I used to do to some degree, and have had thoughts of doing many times these past few months. Getting 'laid' is easy. Finding someone to 'make love to' is much much harder. Let me explain the hows and whys. Any decent looking guy or girl can find someone to have sex with fairly easy. Especially if you seek out people who are less attractive. In fact these are usually the ones I would seek out for flings because they were the ones I would easily be able to move on from and as cold as it sounds, it was much less effort. So the upside is ease of getting in and out. The HUGE HUGE downside is, and most guys will never talk about this, is that it leaves you with a huge void, often bigger than the one you are trying to fill. By that I mean not only is it an empty meaningless relationships, but if FEELS empty and meaningless relationship. Once the sex is over, you cannot wait to get away. Where as when you are with someone with an emotional connection, you want nothing more than to keep being with them. Your OW was probably the one he had that emotional connection with, at least at first. The other ones are the empty ones. By virtue of his actions with the empty ones, and assuming OW knows, his R with her is all but doomed. Unless she just has zero self esteem in which case it will be doomed later.
I am telling you this because my guess is that your H is not trying to replace you right now. He IS probably taking advantage of the fact he has the time (not the moral authority) to sow his oats with other women. I have thought about it all summer how nice it would be just to go out with one or more and get the physical affection and even temporary emotional fulfillment. However, what stops me is I know once the deed is over, I will be left filling as empty, if not more, than before.
Pilot as usual I agree with you. And hey I even understand it! That is why I let the guy kiss me yesterday, we all need a little affection.
The point you make here is key though:
"The HUGE HUGE downside is, and most guys will never talk about this, is that it leaves you with a huge void, often bigger than the one you are trying to fill. By that I mean not only is it an empty meaningless relationships, but if FEELS empty and meaningless relationship. Once the sex is over, you cannot wait to get away."
I totally understand that too. It feels right in the moment but later you feel worse. Same as eating too many cookies. haha.
Thank you as always for your insight into the male mind/body
As far as his relationship with OW, from what I know she does not want a committed relationship with him but is willing to have sex and spend time with him as a friend. He is also helping her with her business. In my opinion, because she and I were friends and I knew about her dating past, she likes him as a friend, is using him for help and having sex with him for fun until she meets someone she likes better. I think he is somewhat aware of all this, or he is choosing to believe what she told him: that she doesn't believe in commitment and wants an open relationship. ha. Too funny since she was recently in a longterm relationship and got dumped and was heartbroken. He is quite innocent when it comes to women and their manipulative games. Other girlfriends have done the same to him in the past.
Oh and thanks for giving me props for the way I handled his anger. Of course that was 100% DB training. Validate, do not argue. Thank heaven for this forum.
The game continues. But I do feel pretty good about it at this point. The last few days I have felt more and more like the winner in this scenario than the loser. As miserable as I have been, it is clear that he is miserable as well. Maybe not because of me, maybe because of OW, who knows. But through my misery I have looked inside myself and found strength, joy and motivation. He has not.
And perhaps I am better off without him anyway I am starting to see. There are more fish in the sea. It is hard to catch a terrific one, but I can always try.
Thanks pilot! Hope your weekend was good, I'm going to hop over and check your thread.
Hugs, Lisa
Oh and I forgot to add something about his annoyance at the kissing incident. He said "I don't want an apology. I want to know how you'd feel if I did the same thing."
I did not answer this. My answer would have been "well you did a lot worse than kiss someone in front of me, right?"
haha. Sarcastic laugh.
Yeah. That's some pretty thick fog.
Any more pursuit from the H?
Lisa I think your H is even more of a dingbat than mine is. Omg.
Lisa I think your H is even more of a dingbat than mine is. Omg.
OMG, right?
Your restraint is admirable. I wouldn't have been able to resist the "how would you feel if I did the same thing" question. Oh, I'd be in so much trouble.
haha Maybell, dingbat! So accurate!!!
The WAH is in a deep fog. Who knows what the dingbat (his new name) is thinking. He has been texting me a bit, sending me pictures of things he is buying for his new house and offering to help me move this month. I'm just keeping up my mellow replying, not very excited or interested in him.
Going away again this weekend and I'm thinking that might make him react again. I think it bothered him last time I went out of town. Will also give me a chance to NC a little.
I believe he will stay in the fog until OW really dumps his ass. Probably he still hopes she will eventually decide that indeed she does want a relationship with him and not just f buddies. Doubt that will happen. Sorry dingbat.
Was thinking back on some things that he did and said in the past few months and now I see that a lot of it reflected what was going on with them. Likely when she told him she wasn't interested in a relationship was when he started contacting me again, some of the things he said and did are now clearly about her rejection. I wonder if he had been considering reuniting with me at that time, when he realized she wasn't going to be his new GF. But I was afraid and didn't want to see him, and put him off for 2 weeks. Probably a good thing as if we did reunite it wouldn't have lasted. He is still in the fog.
He wanted to come by the house again today to pick up something else he forgot. Dingbat! But I wasn't home so he didn't come by. Says he will come tomorrow. I will strive to be out again. He has the keys but seems to prefer to use his visits as an excuse to see me. Or something... who knows.
Today, detached. There are other fish in the sea. However, tomorrow is a new day on the rollercoaster!
Hugs to you my friends!
LisaB
Hey Dbers, not too much exciting going on around these parts but I'm wondering if anyone has any insights for me.
So my WAH has some stuff at my house still. If you follow my saga you will know that he is occasionally comes by to pick things up as he needs them.
Every time it seems to be a source of weird interactions between us. Although he has the key he seems to prefer to come by when I am home.
At first he would ask if he could come by and get his things and I would say yes, he would show up and I would not be there and he would be surprised. Then he started asking "are you home?" and then saying he wanted to pick something up. But I would never be home so then he usually wouldn't come by unless he needed the item urgently.
Anyway, yesterday he asked "are you home?" I said no and he said he would come by the next day. I said nothing. Then today he again asked "are you home?" I said no and he needed his item urgently so he came by and picked it up. But his texting was cold and rude as if he was irritated that I would not be home waiting for him.
I can't help but wonder what his motive and thinking is. Not that it matters but I don't get it.
Did you ever read or hear about The Rules? Remember that "rule" that a guy should ask a woman for a Saturday date by Wednesday or she should say no? I feel kind of like that. If he wants to see me, why doesn't he simply say hey - let's meet? And if he wants me to be home why does he ask 10 minutes before he arrives?
I could see if I dumped HIM that he would be hesitant, but that is not what happened. I guess if he sees me only for a few minutes when getting something from the house it is low commitment and he can leave anytime but he still gets to test the waters, see if I look hot and then leave. He doesn't have to sit through drinks with me.
Last week when he came by to get something, I was home. We talked for a while and then he left. Then he texted me and said I looked good and it was good to see me. So that made me think he was indeed coming by to check me out and say hello.
Well, like I said it is not a big deal. And soon he will be moving all of his things to his house and this silly game will be over. Then he will really have a problem if he wants to use pretense to check up on me, as there will be no reason.
Oddly I almost feel sorry for him lately, and find myself wanting to be friendly to him. To invite him to parties with friends, to invite him to dinner, to tell him about interesting things I see. But I know he does not deserve my friendship so I restrain myself. But it is difficult! I am maintaining NC, only replying at this point.
I hope all of you, my DB friends, are doing well. I might have to start a new thread soon. I babble too much!
Hugs, LisaB
I can't help but wonder what his motive and thinking is. Not that it matters but I don't get it.
And you never will.
Mostly likely he is doing just what you suspect. Wanting to check in on you from time to time. The 10 minutes before could be anything. It could be because he JUST thought of you and it is a spur of the moment type thing. It could be his 'excuse' of 'oh, I was nearby can I pop in to get something'. It could be a million things. Even if it is something else, take it for what it is. An opportunity for him to see you shine without him.
As I said before, you have a really strong tool in your toolbox. And that is you are an attractive fun woman and he is, well, a guy.
Good luck!
Thanks pilot! How are you doing?
Yeah I just don't get why he keeps doing the same thing that is not working for him and getting irritated every time. We texted again later about something and he was again cold and rude like he is angry. Whatever! If he's going to be a weird moody asshat then I don't have to engage with him.
Hope your day is going well so far!
Hugs, Lisa
Haha, not too much better on my end. But that is mostly just my head vs. any new development.
Keep in him his rudeness and coldness is mostly likely a response to your NC style of texting. Not at all saying quit the NC style texting, but you certainly cannot expect him to be cheerful when he has to wait for your response. It is just a form of pouting. How about I send my W over to your H. Let them have a fling. They deserve eachother right now. haha
>Yeah I just don't get why he keeps doing the same thing that is not working for him and getting irritated every time.
Lisa, He needs to read DB/DR. He's going down the same cheese less tunnels. We are all prone to it!
G
haha ganb8te!
I don't think my H needs a fling, thanks though pilot. He has enough STD whores all on his own. haha!
Sick of this crap.
Hang in there Lisa. This stuff is for the birds.
Keep hanging in there Lisa. It may be time to go on a date, shake you out of your rut. Not stat up an actual, just change the scenario some. Maybe not tho.
You need a vet to weigh in on that one.
Try to keep up the PMA.
Hey Joe! Do you mean a date with the WAH?
Only if he asks.
I was actually meaning just a random date. Confidence boost for you. But see what some vets think.
Lisa, my coach is telling me to go ahead and date (meaning casual dates, not a new relationship), but only because my H is so checked out. She said that if he were showing more signs of confusion/waffling, then she'd recommend not dating because it can complicate things. But you can decide based on your own situation. Hang in there!
Yea, Lisa, as much as I would love to see you out there enjoying life and breaking hearts, this whole LF of mine probably is not going to be a helpful thing in the long run. Who knows...
Just lookin out for ya!
Maybe don't date, I dunno. Flirt though. Get some positive feedback from guys. It'll show.
pilot, what does LF mean?
I agree don't date -
Nothing wrong with some friendly outings though. Do you have opportunities to be dressed up and busy around H? I can't recall if you have children or not. Sorry!
Hi all! Thanks for weighing in!
My H definitely thinks I am dating. I'm not sure how seriously he thinks I'm dating but I know for sure he thinks I am. He is dating.
I try to always show him that I am busy out and about and GALing. He definitely knows I'm not sitting at home crying.
If anything I think I have maybe taken the "I'm dating, getting attention and having a blast" thing too far recently. I know he is doing it as well but he doesn't seem happy.
Anyway so I figured I'd try something different and sent him some friendly messages today inviting him to a gallery opening I am attending that he would enjoy. I got a tepid or even old response. But sometimes after I make a small overture he takes a few days to warm up.
Well, thought Id try something new and relatively harmless. Tried being nice and inviting him out in a non date way. If he keeps being distant nothing lost nothing gained. I feel he is pouting over the kissing incident, but maybe he's in a bad mood over something else in his life, who knows. If he's mad over the kissing incident then hopefully it'll make him think.
Thanks again for all the advice about dating. I am flirting and very casually dating a bit. Nothing serious at all. If anything I only need to dial back a bit on "throwing it in his face" so to speak.
Have a great day everyone! Hugs, LisaB
Gah, Maybe I need to GAL more. My H definitely does NOT think I'm dating. oh well, maybe that's a good thing. I don't know.
I like your attitude about trying something new and relatively harmless. His distance is protecting his fragility. He'd never admit that but creating a gentle and safe way for him to stop trying to hard to protect himself is commendable, Lisa.
Rock on!
Gah, Maybe I need to GAL more. My H definitely does NOT think I'm dating.
I will tell you what I told Lisa. Tell him you are dating a pilot. haha.
Lisa, glad to hear you are doing well GAL. But remember, the dating/GAL is a double edged sword. While it may make you feel great and wonderful, it may also illicit a punitive response from your H. He may think 'oh, well if she is going to kiss another guy, I'm going to do even more'. Now i KNOW he has already done more, but he may continue or even take it further than he has before. It is just the way a guy thinks. Heck for all I know, it is how your girls think too. Maybe it is just how people think...kind of like how people always want to get the last word in during an argument.
I am not saying to stop your dating/GAL activities, I am just saying be prepared in case...
Yeah pilot that's what I was thinking as well. It seems like at first the idea of me dating bothered him but then perhaps it also fueled his fire to do it more as you say.
And Ss I agree that he is likely being cold to protect himself. I see a familiar pattern now where he comes a little closer, I act "cool" and then he retreats. So I thought I'd try to shake it up a little and go follow him into his retreat with an olive branch. It didn't seem to work.
I'm guessing that eventually if I also retreat he will come toward me again, as so far he doesn't want to let me stray too far away. But we'll see. Next time (if there is a next time) he comes a little closer I might try being a bit more friendly and open. Not sure.
Looks like it's almost time for a new thread!
Have a good one everyone! Hugs, LisaB