Well my W came to me last night and wanted to talk about property division.
It was a calm discussion and I sat quietly listened then answered when she asked for an answer.
I thought this the best time to bring up the refinance issue since I had her attention. More on this later.
All in all the talk went along with no problems. There were a couple times when we had disagreements but we muddled on through and came to agreement on most things.
Through listening to her it has become apparent that W is treating this as some sort of money making arrangement more than a dissolving of our M.
We went back and forth she I would like this, I agreed, I said I would like this W agreed. When we both wanted something we either figured it out or set it aside for further discussions.
The conflict in my mind came in when W said things like I don't have room for this or that so we will assign a value to it and work it out in other ways. I countered with I don't really want it but if you are leaving it here that fine. I don't think a money value needs to be assigned because you want something but have no place for it so I get by default and you want compensated for it monetarily.
I understand how rough this must be moving out of a house and into a smaller place or even an apartment and I respect your decision but I cannot be expected to "buy" things from you because you don't have room or don't want to rent a storage unit.
Then it went on further when she wanted something really bad. She keep making statements like I am allowing you to take 3/4 of the stuff and you don't want to let me have a mattress that I sleep on? I said that is a mattress that I slepted on also so take something else that you were "letting" me have in barter.
I relented on the mattress without too much problems but I got a feel for my W motives and didn't like it but thought Ok if I give a little on the property may be she will sign the refinance papers. I will continue that subject later but just wanted to put this out there.
I have chance to rediscuss what we talked about last night any suggestions on how I can handle it better?
Continue now to a post about my part of the discussion. The refinance of the house to loan that will be in my name only but W will still be on the deed of the house.
She finished talking about the property settlement by saying this will make it a smooth transition when she moves out. I said do you know when that will happen she said no but when all this is done. I said ok.
She asked what I had for her. I told her I was advised by my L to propose it to you this way. I had everything written down and went line by line.
She said I think you are jumping the gun a little. I asked why? because she told me back in June that I was roadblocking her not finding how much money I was eligible for and if I wanted to keep the house.
I explained that I was honoring her request and had been working on this for almost 2 months to make it happen.
The long and short of it is. If she signs the papers I will assume all her debt as well as mine and she will only have to pay 30% of a reduced mortgage amount and utilities while she is living here for however long.
Basically, she will be paying 350.00/ month and have a house not an apartment and she will still be part owner. If she moves out I told her I would pay it all.
She said well I do I get my half of the house, I said you basically are getting that by me assuming all your debts. My L seems to think I explained it correctly but W doesn't get it or is mad because the house isn't worth what she had in head that it was worth. I went a bit further and had a private appraisal performed and it came in 10,000.00 lower just like I suspected so this is the best deal we are going to get. She believes the house is worth more I said well you are a free to get an appraisal yourself. She is thinking about it. She doesn't know I did one.
She is under the impression that if she moves out she wont be paying any bills anyway I told her she is still responsible for her portion of the mortgage, the 2nd mortgage and the credit cards.
She said if that is the case she isn't not moving out and will live in every damn bit of her half of the house. I said that is your right.
I told W I get it I know you want out, It breaks my Heart but I understand and wont stop you from going and that is why I went ahead and set this loan up for myself to relieve you of any debt so you can have a fresh start.
She started saying I told you a couple years ago to refinance but you wouldn't. I said we tried but got denied because of loan to value and the amount of debt we had. I explained back then that we have to hit a threshold then all will be good. That threshold would have happened last year had it not been for S but we have now hit it and the money is there for us to take. She is refusing because it seems too easy for me to get the house.
I told I am not getting the house right now we are still married and this is just me taking out a loan on our house myself that just happens to pay off my debt and your debt.
Then she started getting upset and saying "I will take my debt with me I don't care." I said well that is your right so think about it and let me know, we have till the no of the month.
One of the things that has bothered my W for about 5 years is the amount of debt we had and she thought we were destitute. I told her we are fine and just need to pay down debt and not use Credit cards. That is what has happened over the last 5 yrs. She said back then that she understood what "our" plan was and it was exciting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Somewhere between then and last year she jumped off the plan without my knowledge or my lack of listening skills back then and started to get it in her head that I didn't want kids.
I honestly thought I explained to her that this plan was pretty flexible and if a baby came along things would still be ok it would just delay things and a new plan would need to be considered together to our new family's best interest.
This financial plan was in effect a couple years before, If you are familiar with my thread,I really knew that we needed to start having kids but couldn't tell this to my W.
I wish I recognized the signs. I talked with my W about this probably twice a month and never picked up on her unhappiness.
I think part of the reason she is balking at signing is because she is no longer included in my future plans. Don't get me wrong if she wants to work on things, even though a lot has happened, I would be willing. She knows this so I am not saying that to her. I am moving on with things that I think will help me but honestly by default she is benefitting also.
It is possible that me doing this for myself but she gets help from me is making her feel like I still am rescuing her in a sense?
Does she maybe feel like if she is going to fail as long as she does it independently of me that that is better then accepting help from me which is not my intent at all.
I understand it is all emotional for the most part on her side and I am trying to be more logical about things. It is just hard to make sense of why she wouldn't want to be debt free and away from me and she has said many times that is her desire.
If anybody can help me understand a bit better please do.
I need some help with this.
I don't know if it is wise to do or not, but it may be the best thing for ME.
My W says she intends on moving out of the house. I think it is with OM but even if she lives alone she still intends to move out.
I ask her when and she says when this is done referring to the division of property.
MY issue is and has been for the last few weeks is W is staying out till 1:00 most nights not coming home on a weekend night at all or very late around 4:00 am.
I suspect that OM has been asked to leave or has been kicked out of his GF, W or whatever she is place and has his own joint now.
That is why W is out so late now.
Or she has rented a place and he is living there till she can move out from our home to be with him.
Or she has rented a place and is fixing it up in anticipation of moving in.
All things I have no control over or maybe don't even care to know.
I am thinking about in a calm manner, because I have resigned myself to the fact that this is happening and not much I can do about it except continue to be a person only a fool would leave, suggesting to the W that why doesn't she just move into the place she will be going to eventually anyway now instead of later.
During our Sunday conversation, she asked for an air conditioner that is in the garage, I said sure why doesn't your new place have air? she said no.
I believe she has a place in mind or it is one of the above suggested scenarios.
Without accusing her of wrong doing just empathizing with her by saying "This has to be tough on you coming home late every night because you feel like you don't want to be here any longer, Which I understand, wouldn't it be better to just get it over with and move now?"
Or something to that effect.
I'm not sure how I will feel when she moves out so I might as well feel the emotions sooner than later.
Is this a wise thing to do or am I not thinking clearly.
I have had patience and can continue to have patience but maybe I am looking to find a new way of dealing with this mess while still practicing DB.
Help appreciated
My W has copies of my Proposals in her hands now, Refinance option, two home appraisals and a partial property division sheet.
I guess it is just a waiting game now till hopefully she agrees to the refinance after seeing the private appraisal I had done.
When I put this appraisal on the counter for her. I wrote a quick note.
W here is a copy of the private appraisal I had done to back up the bank one. I wanted to give it to you personally but I have not seen since Sunday night( I have been sleeping when she gets home). The reason I didn't mention it during our Sunday discussion is because you were getting upset with what I proposing about the refinance and didn't want to upset you further at that point.
All the figures are what I thought they would be when we talked about different options in Apr, May, Jun. I did this research because you asked me too. We finally have hit the threshold of debt to equity to make this possible. This what we had been working towards for about 3 years now and talking about for longer then that. I wish we could enjoy this moment together but things change and I understand that.
Take Care, Nit
She is upset the house is not worth more and is blaming me for not keeping up with it. She has a valid point but over the last year I have tried to do things that don't cost a lot of money but make our home a better place to live. I would love to do more but my L has advised me against at this point.
W keeps saying I told you to refinance 3 years ago. I said I tried but we had too much debt and WE agreed to start a program to reduce it and WE have.
I believe the W was in disbelief that this could or would ever happen and now that it is doable,she is upset because she is walking away.
This refinance would allow for many option for the both of us if we were still together and not S. I am careful not to tell W what these things are but I think she sees what could be and is stewing about it.
Did I do the right thing by including the note or should I have just left the Appraisal and no note?
Quick Update,
L's talked and W L said he was unwilling to consider refinance option without settling Retirement money also.
They have a "global settlement proposal" he is working on but can't promise it will be done before the end of the month in order to meet the deadline for my loan.
W L said he would talk to my W and get her feeling on the situation then get back to my L.
Extremely Frustrated at the moment because W and I live under the same roof but can't communicate. She has totally shut down unless she has to discuss her needs/wants with me. At that same time I explain to her what my desires are to move the process forward(trying not to stonewall) and get nothing but grief.
W has a number in her head that she wants/needs to walk away with. She isn't telling me. The shame of this is if I knew this number I might actually be able to agree with it and chalk this up as a "I gave my best effort" situation. Something is holding her back from completely being independent of me and I don't know what it is and don't care. If she would talk about it I would certainly listen but the communication is not and has not been there.
By no means am I giving up but even when I feel I am trying to fulfill my W desire to dissolve our M by doing things she has requested I get stopped in my tracks.
My W has seems to be surprised by things I am doing that she requested. This puzzles me a great deal.
Should I try to ask W if we can talk about One subject and one subject only? Then tell her the subject and ask her to explain why she feels as she does about this subject?
Not R issues but things that could move the process forward.
I would allow her an arbitrary time limit where I would do nothing but listen to what she says then I would agree to the same amount to give my feelings.
No trying to persuade W to understand and agree to my thoughts, just airing out both our feelings on a single topic to simplify things.
After the initial talk then we could ask questions of each to make sure we both understand each others side but again no "selling" of our ideas to one another.
Maybe this would open up the lines of communication a bit.
She knows D is not a solution for me and I know that D is what she wants. No need to bring that up while discussing other things.
I could really use some feedback on this and honestly other stuff from earlier in my threads.
I want to save my M still but feeling lost and losing site of that goal a bit. I think I need some help getting back on the DB track if it is even possible.
Thanks in advance!!
Any advice? I am working on R with a WAW and settlement looms. I feel I have been where you are. I do not think talking to her about R and then her talk about D will make her dig her heals in. I would suggest reading DB again to help you focus on GAL and LRT. This is now about you. She will have to deal with her D later.
I hope my WAW sees what she is doing before the judge signs. We are at the settlement part too.
Best of luck. Hang in there.
Thanks for responding NewB3,
I am good on the GAL stuff but there is always room for more.
I will go back and reread DB again regarding the LRT.
I have the LRT letter written just not inclined to give it to my W just yet.
I feel I have moved on with my life in almost every facet except dating which I find very difficult to do while still being M, you know being an adulterer.
In other words, I am not actively looking to date but if an angel fell out of the sky I may tread lightly into that scene but probably not since it wouldn't be fair to the other party till I am D.
I do the GAL dance somewhat with a air of mystery concerning what I am doing and with who but there is no romantic interest on the horizon but my W doesn't need to know what I do.
Even if I was wanting to date not sure it would change W mind so I don't want to compromise my values for something that will have no bearing on my W feelings nor should I ever compromise beliefs for anything for anybody.
I thought about being firm with my W and in conjunction with the letter telling her that if she leaves there is no turning back but I know in my Heart I can't say that and mean it right now.
I am out of ideas to try and it may be too late anyways but I am a very hopeful person by nature and will have that till the Papers are signed.
I have failed miserably when attempting to set boundaries and W wouldn't abide by them anyhow in her current emotional state.
If you or anybody else has something to try I am ready and willing to listen and possibly implement it. I have asked if she would talk to my DB coach. At first she thought about it then went cold on the idea so I haven't asked in about 6 weeks.
Stay Strong!!
Ok, just throwing it out there.
Should I ignore the fact that it is my W Birthday today?
If I acknowledge it should it only be in the form of a verbal "Happy Birthday" alone or maybe a Card?
If I don't see her should I just chalk it up to I didn't see you to wish you a "Happy Birthday" and let it go or would a little note on the counter be in order?
She doesn't talk to me much but I still feel like I want to be nice because that is type of person I am.
If we didn't live together I wouldn't be asking this question and would not wish her a "Happy Birthday" probably but since she is still here I feel a little obligated. She did call me for my Birthday back in November and we weren't living together then.
Thoughts?
how did it go? I failed to get a valentines/anniversary/fathers day card from my WAW. Her birthday was in June. I did birthday week since we still live together. Little gifts each day....on from S3.5, one from S10. cards the first two days from them. I gave her a heartfelt card with ILU at beginning of that week and that was the last time I said it. and as her birthday week ended, she got flowers day before bday and final day was something I found prior to BD. a VERY nice piece of jewelry...sans stones. that last gift she has gotten too. I did not let her lack of love negate mine. DB made me a better person, either way.
NewB3,
Didn't do a darn thing, I had things to do and we didn't see each other.
She rolled in about 12:30 am and I wasn't jumping out of bed just to wish her a Happy Birthday.
Somewhere down the line I am sure it will be brought up by her that I am uncaring person who couldn't wish a Happy Birthday to her even if the circumstances are what they are.
She will use it to justify why she is not willing to work on the M instead facing the real issues but I cant control that so oh well.
I am to the point now where I want initiate some conversation about the Business side of R only and see if she will explain why she feels the way she does on financial issues.
Maybe I can get a sense if she is totally relying on her L for everything or if some of these moves that are being made are her Ideas.
My feeling is that she is putting a lot stock in her L, which is her right, but I think he may want to drag things out a bit to earn some extra cash. Half of which I will have to pay.
It just seems like if W really wanted to push things along like she has indicated more things would have happened quicker. Now I could go home and there will be D papers and settlement proposals and all but it still seems strange that W is taking this much time to do things.
Everytime she asks or yells for me to do something I have done it. Not because I want a D but because she accuses me of being a roadblock.
3 times now I have told her she was free to leave and I did the things she asked me to do to help in that regard but nothing. She always seems shocked that I do these things and she doesn't like the reality of the numbers so she gets upset and stews about them I suppose.
My track record was not the greatest when it came to quickly doing something she asked me to do but it always got done in time with the exception of fixing up house. That will be done in time also just not in time to save our M most likely.
Reading over some threads tonight and a thought just occurred to me.
This may have been discussed many times over but I don't think I have seen it.
We, as LBS most often get blamed for not seeing how bad our M is and not taking steps to correct it. My W for instance, is good for this one. "How can you walk beside someone for so long and not realize how miserable they are? If you just could have seen my misery sooner maybe things could have been different."
Now W is right in the fact that I did not for whatever the reason see how really "done" she was becoming or maybe I did but whenever I tried to right the ship I did it in the wrong way.
so here we are at this point.
Now could the same not be said for the WAS? Us LBS's have attempted to DB and if we do it correctly. We will have been able to become a person only a fool would leave.
Learned what mistakes we made in the M and our blame for the awful place we are now. We know we can make it on our own but for the moment we are choosing to stand for our M.
Why then can we not turn it around on the WAS and blame them for not seeing the changes/improvements we have made and if they would just have trusted these changes even a microbit then things could turn out different?
I am not suggesting we flaunt our changes to them but it would be nice to figure out a way to allow the WAS to see these changes(if there are truly changes) without telling them.
I know blaming my W will get me nowhere but way back in the recesses of my mind I would love to be able to say " How can you keep ignoring these changes that I am making for myself that is allowing me to become a man that would make a great husband to you again? I wish you could have seen this sooner before more hurtful things have taken place to put our M in further Jeopardy."
Am I completely screwed up?
"Why then can we not turn it around on the WAS and blame them for not seeing the changes/improvements we have made and if they would just have trusted these changes even a microbit then things could turn out different? "
Because they are already of a mindset to leave. You could turn it around on your W. She'll just look at you and think "so what"? Then you would just get frustrated again.
I hear what you're saying, nit, and I wonder many of the same things daily. Hourly.
I was always raised to SAY something if I needed something. I'm not someone whose mind needs to be read. If I need help, I ask. If I want a hug, I ask. If I want to go out to dinner, I say so. When I felt like our marriage lacked I spoke up... probably too much. H? He just sat quiet for a year or more stewing in his victimness. He'd say a tiny thing here or there but never elaborate or just say, "nevermind". When someone says nevermind I believe them. I don't do the whole "does he say what he means" bs. I say what I mean and I expect others to do the same. Mind reading makes things complicated and life is too complicated as it is.
So, here I am... because I didn't mind read... yet, I'm reminded daily to not mind read further to get an insight into his actions. It's ironic, to me.
I see your point MrBond and agree 100%,
I was more or less thinking out loud a thought that occurred to me. Never ever intended on doing it. I know it would only lead to more frustration.
SS, I tend to be like you in the respect that I would rather talk about things but my W is like your H. This process of DBing along with IMC has taught me to have a lot of patience and that is a complete 180 for me according to my W. She hasn't said she noticed I have more patience she just used to complain before the S that I was the most impatient person she knew.
Thanks for commenting!!
Been Awhile since I have posted. W is still thinking D I suppose.
She is still here in the house with me though. We are actually talking a bit more like 20 words instead of 10 a day.
She still is going out at odd times and coming home late. Recent intel I received says OM is living in a rooming house since being evicted by his GF, BM or whatever. W is going to have to support him as he doesn't seem willing to get a job. From Conversations I have overheard seems W and OM are coming down from the clouds a bit but not thinking beyond what I hear.
Trying to stay patient seems to be working. Still doing GAL and Detaching as much as possible.
This morning was a bit strange for me. I did my Normal Sunday routine got up, took shower, picked up some coffee and sat outside the church waiting for the service to begin. About 20 mins before the service I got a feeling I should go home. So that is what I did.
When I got here nothing out of the ordinary was going on so I started to read a book and did some laundry.
Whether it is a good Idea or not I am not sure but for about 3 weeks now I have wanted to ask my W a question in a very general sense. The opportunity never really presented itself so I didn't push it.
This morning though was different, I walked up to my W and asked if I could ask her a question. She said in a sighing tone "what"?.
I said " I have been working through some things and I would like to ask in a very general sense, not specific to you or anyone else for that matter, because I value your opinion and you know me better than anyone on this planet " What would make me a better Husband to someone?" I understand it is a loaded question and would appreciate if you could think about it and let me know. I thought I know or knew how to be Husband but Obviously that is incorrect."
I walked away went downstairs and left shortly thereafter for a bit.
But before I walked away I was watching her expression she didn't look up at me but it was an expression that I haven't seen in a long time. It was one of he actually values my opinion.
Maybe I should have stayed aroung a little longer but since I kinda sprung the question on my W I didn't want to seem like I was begging for an answer and I truly do want her to think about it and if she does answer me I hope it is truthful
Either way I will take it as information and nothing else.
Not sure if I should have asked the question or not but I have no 2nd thoughts at all about asking so now maybe she will answer.
Comments?
Sorry, I don't mean to hijack, but what do you mean "wife is still thinking D"? You were served D papers according to your sig. What's going on with the D process? I ask, because I was recently served. Not sure what to expect.
nmwb123,
I was served the D complaint papers in Early May, About 2 weeks later I received a Summons to appear in Court for Spousal support. last day in June.
At that hearing it was determined that I had to pay my W spousal support each month till the court said I didn't have to.
This support is designed to allow the supportee to rehabilitate themselves to live on their own and start a new life separate from the M but not yet D.
Then at some point a distribution of assets is sent and negotiations begin after that.
I have not received this yet from my W attorney. My W and I have gone over some stuff together but not much.
That is where I am at right now.
At any Time My W who filed the D can pull them if she desires.
If not the D proceeds once all things are settled.
The actual D decree is served and if we both agree the M is over then we sign and we wait 90 days then a judge dissolves the M unless he/she feels there is special circumstances where the M should not be terminated.
It does take some time to sift through all the details and the only ones who win are the L's.
Until that day comes for me. I am standing for my M and trying to become or remain a man only a fool would leave.
My W continues to see the OM and I cant control that it is her choice. It is not a deal breaker for me but I won't live in an open M she knows this and is still on her own journey so she needs to complete that before anything can happen.
It is very frustrating, confusing, angering and any other feeling you can name except Happy or Loving.
I am working on myself because that is all I control.
I still care and love my W deeply but she doesn't feel that way about me at the moment.
Good Luck in your Sitch and hang in there!!
Thanks nit84. I hope your situation comes to a happy resolution, too. I never knew how the D process worked, and I wish I never had to. I have to file my response soon.
Good Luck and Remember to stay strong.
If you want to fight for your M do it.
But also remember to improve yourself for YOURSELF and nobody else.
If you concentrate on you, there won't be much time to worry about your W and whether or not she is Morally correct.
In her mind she is morally correct and that is her right and her feelings. Do not judge her. At some point she may feel different, not necessarily about the M, but about how she is living her life.
Life is full of choices some good and some bad but there are consequences to each choice we make and we must live with them.
We as LBS cannot and should not try to explain or force our beliefs upon our WAS it will lead to heartache and we have already experienced enough of that!
I have been at this DBing for 15 months, I am not always doing the best job but I am working on myself to become a better person for me. I will be fine no matter what and so will you.
Thank you, nit84. You're very kind. My WW moved out at the end of May. I've seen her three times since then. She never even had the decency to discuss the D with me. I knew she was thinking about it, but at least as an adult she could have sat down with me to discuss how we would approach it.
I'm working on things, too, albeit slowly. I'm getting more involved in church and learning how to cook. These are things I believe would improve our marriage. Like you say, however, it's up to her. I can't control her thoughts.
This happened over the weekend,
W was home early Friday night around midnight. then sometime in the middle of the night between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m. she went back out. Came home at 7:00 a.m.
I was leaving to do my normal Saturday Morning routine when she came home. I said nothing.
When I came back she was in the kitchen and I asked if things were ok? She shook her head yes but didn't look at me.
I left the room. a little later she was leaving and her car wouldn't start. she fumbled around a bit I let her go then after she checked the oil and tried to start it again I went over to ask what the problem was.
She said her car is dying she needs a new one. I asked whats wrong with it and she got upset and said she didn't want to talk about it. I said ok and went back to what I was doing. It started and she left.
When she came back we again were in the kitchen together and I asked about her Mom. she told me some stuff and I was leaving room when she decided to tell me all that is wrong with the car. It will cost over 2000.00 just for parts she said. so that is why it is not inspected because it is cheaper for her to get a ticket. My Father always fixed our cars so I asked if she got a 2nd opinion from a local mechanic and not a dealer. she said no one can fix it it is too bad. Besides, she said I got my money out of it.
The car has 105,000 miles on it but it is a reliable brand if taken care of. I have had this brand and got of 200,000 out of them so I know it would last a couple more years if it was cared for. Not saying she didn't but once things pile up that go wrong it seems insurmountable.
I went out again and when I came back she was doing laundry and I notice some Male clothing again. This is the 4th or 5th time this has happened in the past 2 months.
I had yet to say anything to her about my feelings on this subject. thinking what good would it do anyhow?
Well, I guess I finally had enough. I asked when will she be done washing her clothes because I wanted to do some of mine. She answered with an attitude Why? This caught me off guard a bit and I said because I want to do mine just wondered how long but no worries.
Then I said it. When will you be done with his laundry I asked. She stopped and looked away and said You need to worry about yourself before others. I said I am worried about myself and doing a great job at it. She smirked and I said why can't he or you just throw quarters in at the laudromat instead of being disrespectful of me. I guess since he got kicked out of where he was living you have to do everything for him now? She said I was funny and I said it is just disrespectful.
She denied that those were Male clothes and I said ok I guess we done discussing it.
I then asked when some property would be returned to the house and she said I don't have to report to you. I said most certainly you don't it is just a question because I would like to use it. She got frustrated more When I asked where some furniture went( she snuck some out when I was gone for an all day event). She said it was on my side of the property list so I took it. I explained that we hadn't signed anything like that. She said we agreed on it though. I said yes but my L asked me to ask you to bring it back till all things are settled. She said she couldn't it was being used. I said The OM doesn't have furniture either wow that stinks. She said it wasn't him that was using it. It was her family who had already thrown their other furniture out and I am letting them use mine.
I said but it technically is still mine also. W said It is going with me when I move. I said most likely it is but you are still here so until you move please bring it back. She said how do you know I haven't started to move out. I said I didn't, she said well I will be out by the end of the month. I said ok. W said I thought we were ending this on a good note but you have to start s**t, I said not doing that just wanted you to know that I think it is disrespectful. She asked why I waited till the last minute to bring these things up. I said I didn't know we had a deadline.
She went upstairs muttering to herself Jumped on her phone and started by saying "yeah, it is F***head, he.... I didn't wait around and left to remove myself from the situation.
When I came back I told her I owed her apology for buying appliances as gifts for her. She didn't speak but I told W I can understand how you would feel that it was demeaning. Last week, I asked her "what would make me a better husband, not for her and no one in particular just what would be her vision on what this would look like for me" I said I guess this apology goes hand and hand with that question. BTW she never answered me.
She went out for a couple hrs but was home earlier than I expected, Actually I figured she would be gone overnight.
In the morning I went to church I came home and said Good Morning in Passing and she replied in kind.
Sunday she started to clean out a hall closet and I asked if we were going to talk about this property considering it is not on the list. She said all I did was clean out a closet and yes we will talk.
While this conversation was going on she was holding a pot of sauce or chili that she was taking with her to leave.
The last week or so a couple times she has prepared food and took it out of the home. It is not what my FIL eats so it isn't for him.
I was following her downstairs to the basement to eat my dinner and I couldn't resist it was dumb but it is said and I am over it.
I said he(meaning OM) doesn't have a kitchen either things must really be bad for him but thankfully he has you and his Baby Mama oh and that New blond from the gym he has been seen leaving with while you are working. This is new intel I received last week.
She walked out to her car and left.
The last couple days our house looks like an indoor yard sale she has everything out so we can talk about who wants what.
I don't think what was said over the weekend made her move out. She was already planning it I am sure.
I am sad that she is leaving but it may be the best thing if she gets out there on her own assuming it is on her own. Maybe even though we don't really communicate this true space will help both of us seeing as she still won't tell the truth about the A or actually other stuff also.
I still have hope for things to get better but it is getting smaller and smaller with each passing day.
What do I do now? Just stay patient and let whatever happens happen or is there something I could or should say to my W? Not to keep her from moving out necessarily but allow the road home to stay paved and smooth.
Thoughts very much appreciated!!
Just a continuation of my thoughts in my last post.
I suppose GALing and Detaching is all I can do at this point till after she moves out. I wont crawl into shell but probably will stay home more to fix some stuff up around the house if money permits.
Once the initial shock wears off I am sure I will be fine.
Once she goes though there will not be any contact at all most likely because she got her own cell phone 3 months ago and hasn't given me the number.
In a way I suppose this is a good thing for now till the actual D decree comes and I don't know when that will be.
My L and I will work on how best to protect myself. My hope is my W knows that we both(her and I) have to protect ourselves to move on without ruining either of our future lives whether that be together or not later on.
Based on W reactions to some things that my L and I have done and proposed to her and her L, I feel there is long road of resentment and unforgiveness ahead for me from my W. I hope I am 100% wrong but I am prepared for it.
The things I have proposed to my W with my L blessing have been fair. I don't know why W and her L refused what we proposed other than her L said If they agreed that would mean I wouldn't be as receptive to their demands(too strong a word), wishes is better, later on.
Could be true but not positive because my W has not been forthcoming with any numbers for some reason. I have a pretty good Idea of our assets so anything that is proposed wont come as a shock but I guess the amount she will ask for is question and it must be huge if she doesn't want to even run a number past me.
I am still sad as I type this because, although, I have worked on myself a great deal and have my self confidence back and I am a better person then I was when this mess started, I feel empty
I,unintentionally for sure, think I haven't done the best job at DBing and that frustrates me. I have read DR more than once and feel I know the principles, I just don't think I did a good job at adapting these principles to my personal Sitch.
Maybe it comes down to my difficulty in trying to communicate correctly. This is an obvious problem with my W and probably on this forum as well.
I have received invaluable advice from a lot of people especially the Vets that has helped me immeasurably with all parts of this fiasco except the most important and obvious one that is my most desired.
I will continue to have hope for my M because that is the type of person I am and have always been.
I am not trying to feel sorry for myself but it sure is coming off that way Sorry for that.
I suppose I could start improving on the parts of DBing that I have messed up so far realizing it is never too late to start over it just frustrates me. I have been given the gift of time just not sure I used it wisely.
hi nit, I'm sure you already know this, but confronting her about the laundry and food and all that is not going to make your situation better. I know it's really hard to bite your tongue when you are being so disrespected, but you'll have a lot more peace in the long run, and won't end up in a nasty back-and-forth rant with W. If you are your best self, then she can't blame you for her unhappiness and decision to D. Show her only your best self, even if it feels inauthentic. Then rant to your friends and family or to the folks on this board instead of to her -- that's what they are there for. Don't confront her any more. If you need to address property issues, have your lawyer contact hers. Stay friendly and stay out of it!
Ahoy, that is basically what I have done for 15 months now is avoid conflict with my W, which I believe is your suggestion, correct?
I understand that my W will not be happy if I bring these things up which I don't often, but I do it in as non-confrontational way possible as much as I can. There is never any yelling anymore I just state facts without the yelling. It is my W that chooses to react badly to these facts. I will say one thing, I need to stop with the sarcastic remarks.
She knows I have been working on myself for these last 15 months and I do put my best self forward to her and lean on friends and this forum to vent 99% of the time.
We decided and our L's agreed that we should handle the property ourselves to save some fees. For the most part this has worked.
I felt I had to stand up for myself in regards to feeling disrespected so that it didn't create new resentments. I have forgiven my W for her part in the failure of the M and also myself so I do not want to begin some new resentments that I am sure would lead to "more of the same" which I don't want my W to think will be the case if she decide to try and work on things.
I have admittedly been a doormat in a lot of our interactions. This is where I get confused. I want to keep the road home paved and smooth but I also can't let it be at the cost of my dignity or self-respect.
This is the battle I have been fighting for a long time. I consider each situation before I react(never did this before) sometime probably over-consider too much.
I don't want to just "win" anymore. I want to understand and take my W thoughts and opinions as an equal in the M. This is very hard with the walls she has built around her heart. I am allowed to disagree with those thoughts but I still want/must allow for her feelings.
It is now communicating these new changes to her in a way that is not pursuing, clingy or needy.
My actions(180's) are speaking for themselves but I need to balance that with the best communication possible.
This is my stumbling block.
When I ask clarifying questions of my W she stills see it as me being controlling or confrontational. I understand that is my W problem more so than mine but I need to be better at asking these questions in the correct way.
Who knows I might be asking correctly and it is just my W reactions that make me doubt myself.
Hi nit -- I hope you didn't read my post as criticism. I'm sure you're doing what you have to do for your own peace of mind in your own circumstances. In my case, I avoid even asking clarifying questions because 1. I usually have nothing to gain from the information, and 2. My H thinks that I'm prying into his business, which drives him further away from me. I just wait, and if and when he has something to say or reveal to me, he will. This also allows for a bit more detachment on my part. But that's just what works in my situation, and I certainly understand the urge to seek clarity. It is very hard being in this situation!
Nit,
From what I got out of that it sounds like your W's plan is falling apart. That's good for you and not out of place for id say most WAS's. If its any comfort a WAS acts like a 16 year old spoiled brat - they want financial security, the LBH as a fall back all while going out partying and with no responsibility. This behavior has to be flushed out by the WAS and no other, don't give her anything to appease her. I guarantee that if you stay civil in emails, text, in person she will regret what she does in time. The waking up process takes so much longer than we would like it to, patience is a virtue friend.
Keep your head up and don't get twisted by anything short of a WAS crawling back over broken glass. they will test your resolve by resisting you as well as possibly sexual advances, it really is a sick behavior. Only you know her best, good luck.
Ahoy, No I didn't take your post as criticism.
I always swept things under the rug until something set me off mostly alcohol or my MIL then I would say mean things that I never would say sober. I have taken care of the drinking part and I have no contact with MIL(not my choice) so it is much better.
I now just maybe over think my steps before taking them meaning Maybe I should say something right away when a behavior happens instead of letting it repeat before I mention that I feel it is disrespectful. This where the "doormat" part sneaks in.
The reason I do this is to make sure I have my facts straight. No good comes from getting upset at something that is born from fear or anxiety.
I also, as Riley suggests above, have learned great patience in order to hopefully reach my goal in the right amount of time to give me the greatest chance of a successful ending.
I rarely start a conversation, I let my W do it but when she does is when I try to ask the clarifying questions.
I have maybe a handful of times really wanted to ask my W a question so I did but it is few and far between.
@ Riley I have tried to stay civil as much as I can. I do backslide occasionally with those sarcastic remarks I spoke about above.
I have been labeled as a rescuer by my IMC and I am doing a good job at letting stuff go that in the past I would have tried to control or fix.
Not sure if my W notices this as she was the one being rescued but I notice it and so do other family and friends.
Thanks for posting!!
My W continues to see the OM and I cant control that it is her choice. It is not a deal breaker for me but I won't live in an open M she knows this and is still on her own journey so she needs to complete that before anything can happen.
You know Nit, I really get tired of hearing men saying....."I can't control that".....and continue doing nothing whatsoever about his own choices and direction, and allows such horrible disrespect from a wayward W. When a man uses it for an excuse or his reasoning behind his own lack of action....THAT is what just too much! Why would you expect any woman to want a H who just lays down and lets her wipe poop all over?
First of all, you say this situation and all that she has done to you is NOT a deal breaker. I am curious as to what WOULD be a deal breaker for you?
Second, you say you won't live in an open M. Of course you will. There's not a doubt in my mind. Because you have been doing it......for how long now?
Ironically, you are still using the same title to your threads, afraid you've waited too long. I agree, you have waited around too long! You are still hoping she will simply change her mind and give you another chance. A wayward W is not your typical lady who has to leave her M. A wayward is mean, cruel, hateful, lying, selfish cheaters who have absolutely no respect. The things you've considered as DBing will have no affect on her.
You sit back as she brings OM's dirty clothes into your home and watch her do his laundry while you try to make chit-chat? Now why wouldn't a gal be attracted to a H like that kind of guy? You have to do more than "pretend" you don't notice. But then you whine to her about why they can't use a laundry-mat. Are you hoping she will feel sorry for you and come to her senses of the strong man she is leaving? Nit, it won't work that way.
Well, I guess I finally had enough. I asked when will she be done washing her clothes because I wanted to do some of mine. She answered with an attitude Why? This caught me off guard a bit and I said because I want to do mine just wondered how long but no worries.
Is that the best you've got?
Thanks Sandi for responding!
I need to ask a few questions if you don't mind so I make sure I understand what you are saying.
"You know Nit, I really get tired of hearing men saying....."I can't control that".....and continue doing nothing whatsoever about his own choices and direction, and allows such horrible disrespect from a wayward W. When a man uses it for an excuse or his reasoning behind his own lack of action....THAT is what just too much! Why would you expect any woman to want a H who just lays down and lets her wipe poop all over?"
Sandi, I thought that one of the main points of DBing was to work on yourself and try and not let what the WAS does affect you? I have made a choice to work on myself for myself. I believe I know some of my part in the failing of my M and have set out to work on this to become a better H. For instance, not yelling at, bullying, demeaning, or demanding it be done my way or no way. This is towards everyone not just my W.
"you say this situation and all that she has done to you is NOT a deal breaker. I am curious as to what WOULD be a deal breaker for you?"
If my W were to become pregnant by someone other than me that would be pretty tough to look past.
"you say you won't live in an open M. Of course you will. There's not a doubt in my mind. Because you have been doing it......for how long now?"
I won't live in an open M, but my W has to want to work on things before I can talk about the steps I will need to feel "safe" in trying to revive our R correct? Things like complete transparency etc.. Until she has completed her journey I have to have patience don't I? I can't say ok enough is enough stop acting like an a$$ get rid of the OM and let get to work saving this M.
"You sit back as she brings OM's dirty clothes into your home and watch her do his laundry while you try to make chit-chat? Now why wouldn't a gal be attracted to a H like that kind of guy? You have to do more than "pretend" you don't notice. But then you whine to her about why they can't use a laundry-mat. Are you hoping she will feel sorry for you and come to her senses of the strong man she is leaving? Nit, it won't work that way."
I admit I should have said something the very first time I discovered this but I didn't. When I used to get angry in the M I didn't handle it correctly. I wouldn't stay on point and would bring up past issues that I knew were very hurtful to my W. Since the S I have tried to keep our argument in the "fight fair" arena. My W knew I was p**sed off about the Laundry. I did say why not use the Laudromat instead of our house because it is disrespectful to me. She denied they were mens clothes. I could have got up and took them out of the washer and proved they were but she has pulled the "I'm afraid of you card" out in the past when I attempted to be somewhat forceful so I didn't need that added into the dynamic again.
Quote:
"Well, I guess I finally had enough. I asked when will she be done washing her clothes because I wanted to do some of mine. She answered with an attitude Why? This caught me off guard a bit and I said because I want to do mine just wondered how long but no worries."
This was weak but I was attempting to be kind about HER laundry. If you read the next paragraph after this one I said well when will you be done with OM laundry, still pretty weak I know but at least she now knows that I know she has been doing his laundry. She apparently doesn't care that I know this so I guess I wait till the next time if there is a next time and then just take the clothes and throw them out the door onto the yard.
I really need help I guess because maybe you are correct when saying the things I consider DBing really aren't or they won't work.
Thank you for taking your precious time to look at my thread. I hope you will keep coming back, I really value your thoughts!
Thanks again Sandi you have given me some things to ponder.
Nit,
What were you thinking??!! You actually talked with your W who did OM's laundry at YOUR house??!!!
What a nit!
When I first learned of OW, I was angry and forcefully told Ms. Wonka that OW wasn't allowed to come to the house or near the house. Ms. Wonka understood and got the message loud and CLEARLY. I meant business. Result? She then met up with OW elsewhere. Grrrrr. Damned if I let the OW on or near the property. I cannot imagine seeing Ms. Wonka doing OW's laundry at MY HOUSE.
Forget it!!! Not happening.
You don't need to yell or be demanding at all. You just calmly and firmly state to W that she's not to bring any OM-related stuff or things around the house. And no texting (calling) OM in front of you, in or around the house.
I could have got up and took them out of the washer and proved they were but she has pulled the "I'm afraid of you card" out in the past when I attempted to be somewhat forceful so I didn't need that added into the dynamic again.
Why not?! I would have done it anyway irrespective of W's reaction. Many WAW's throw out the "you're controlling" or "I'm afraid of you" line to get the LBH's to back off on putting in place boundaries on the OM.
I said well when will you be done with OM laundry, still pretty weak I know but at least she now knows that I know she has been doing his laundry.How is it important that W "knows" that you
know she's doing OM's laundry? All of this makes it look like that you're ok with W bring back her boyfriend's laundry back at your MARITAL home. Don't you see how laughable that is, Nit?
The OM's clothes would have been out in the trash bin or thrown out on the yard pronto.
Wonka,
I told My W when I moved back home in December and she freaked that I wasn't going to let her play house while I was living in my childhood bedroom.
I had some info but not enough in my mind to expose or accuse my W of an A. It wasn't a deal breaker for me so I thought about the worst that could be happening and felt the emotion then I let it go. Some vets gave me this advice and I tried to follow it.
As for phone calls, I know she is making them while at home but W is doing it in the privacy of her bedroom.
OM has not been in my house since I moved back and best I can tell only twice total once in Oct. 2013 and once the night before I moved back which had a lot to do with moving back. Neighbors are looking out for me so I know this is true. I didn't ask them to watch my house but they offered when I spoke with them that there was no suspicious activity while I was away.
When it comes to the laundry issue, I should have said something the very first time I discovered this. When I finally did My W knew I was pi**ed and that I thought it was disrespectful of her to be doing it at all let alone in my home.
I pondered throwing it all out but didn't.
When I explained to my W my feeling of disrespect she denied it all as I expected and got defensive. I continued on and she said I thought this was ending nicely but you always have to start s**t. I explained that I wasn't doing that and sorry felt that way. I was just letting W know that it was wrong. I could have raised my voice more but I didn't.
It does no good now but my thinking at the time was by letting the W know I knew what was going on. She would wonder what else I know about. I have plenty of intel but have been advised by my L to keep most of it to myself for right now.
This keeping stuff to myself till needed seemed to work back when the spousal support hearing took place. She said she was shocked to find out what info I had and how I surprised her and her L by showing up with a L when I hadn't told her that I was retaining a L. She was not providing her L with certain info, according to my L, that probably could have saved some embarrassment on their part.
After the hearing she was furious and I explained to her that this is what D looks like when you(I) have to protect yourself moving forward. I never got into a screaming match but I firmly told her that she was just pi**ed that she got caught having an A and doing other things that looked fishy.
I was "dead to her" at that point she said. I went about my own business not worrying about her. A week later she started up a conversation that grew into an argument no yelling on my part, a lot on hers, I validated as much as I could. She mentioned that a lot of people asked if I begged, pleaded, or asked her to work on things and said I love you to her. She told them I hadn't. I did at the very beginning of the S but not since until the day of the spousal support hearing.
That day I told her I know what is going on with OM if you stop the A we can work on things because I do love you but can't work on things while you are doing this. She denied the A so that ended that.
Her version was, the first time you told me you loved me in a year was after the hearing while you were accusing me of have an A.
I don't let the possibility of my W getting upset affect whether I say something or not.
I think that I over think things before I do act and then the timing is off to have any effect.
I also value your opinion Wonka and welcome any other advice, suggestions, criticisms etc.. as you see I certainly could use the guidance.
I need to ask a few questions if you don't mind so I make sure I understand what you are saying.
Okay.
Sandi, I thought that one of the main points of DBing was to work on yourself and try and not let what the WAS does affect you? I have made a choice to work on myself for myself. I believe I know some of my part in the failing of my M and have set out to
work on this to become a better H. For instance, not yelling at, bullying, demeaning, or demanding it be done my way or no way. This is towards everyone not just my W.
So what are you asking me?
I won't live in an open M, but my W has to want to work on things before I can talk about the steps I will need to feel "safe" in trying to revive our R correct?
Are you asking me if this is a correct descision or step or if it is correct DBing......or if I agree with it? Not sure what you are asking me and I want to answer you the best I know how. So I will just give my thoughts on what you've said in the post, ok?
I think many men fall between the DB cracks trying to find balance between his old behavior and the changes he is trying to make in himself. If he was short tempered, controlling, self-centered, etc.......then he often goes completely to the other extreme and be begins acting submissive to whatever his W says/does. He is scared of her leaving so badly that the fear overtakes his thinking and behavior. He lays downs and become whatever she wants at theat moment.......a cat to kick, a doormat to wipe her feet, an erran boy, housekeeper, cash cow, ..........(you get the picture). If or when he does say something, it sounds like a whipped pup who is scared of his master. In other words, his attempts are too weak and come across to her that you've lost your masculinity. A WAW in an A will feel disgust for a man who will not take charge of his own situation and stand up to her and talk like a man.....instead of teenage girl. Women can handle any man who talks and acts like another female who is weaker than she is. However, when a male stands inches from her face (looking eyeball to eyeball) and uses an authoritive voice to confront her disrespect, she will have a different reaction.
The strong woman who has ruling the MR will probably scream/yell/ throw a fit.....whatever, when the H stands up to her. But if he won't back down and tuck his tail between his legs, she will eventually respect him for taking a stand against her disrespect. Oh, she won't tell you that she respects it .....but she does. Right then, she's just mad and trying to get the upper hand, but deep down in her soul, she will respect a man who will not tolerate her cr@p treatment of him.
You will not gain your WAW's admiration/love without her first respecting you. You can't make another person admire you or feel love, but you certainly can onfluence respectful behavior from those who live in your house! A man can earn respect by the way he uses his voice when he speaks. Not by yelling.....not by threatening......not by loosing his cool......none of that stuff. A man can speak with a certain "power" or "take charge" "authoritative" sound that can draw a natural inner response within the other person......especially women b/c (I believe, b/c of how most of us are wired). You teach others how to treat you. You have been teaching her she can cheat and rub your nose in it (washing OM's clothes in your home) and you do nothing. This your home! You have a right to be treated with a certain degree of outward respect. I say "outward" b/c we can't make another person feel something within their self. See the difference? First comes the outward, then the feelings will catch up.
admit I should have said something the very first time I discovered this but I didn't. When I used to get angry in the M I didn't handle it correctly. I wouldn't stay on point and would bring up past issues that I knew were very hurtful to my W. Since the S I have tried to keep our argument in the "fight fair" arena.
The past is over and it does no good to bring it up when we get upset. The best way, I believe, is handle the issues when it first occurs. If you don't then it sits in your mind and grows into deep resentment. That resentment comes forth when you get angry and drag up the past. Why not nip it in the bud? Same principal when we are raising kids. We have to deal with the issue when it occurs and not continue to bring it up every time they do another offense.
I really need help I guess because maybe you are correct when saying the things I consider DBing really aren't or they won't work.
Not necessarily. I think maybe you are just confused.
I'll start another post to finish. Do not want it edited b/c of length.
A week later she started up a conversation that grew into an argument no yelling on my part, a lot on hers, I validated as much as I could.
Okay, so she's yelling at you and......you are validating her? Why? Do you validate other people who get into a screaming fit toward? Listen Nit, yelling at a spouse is disrespectful behavior. That is not the time to validate, IMO. There is a time and place for everything.
To me, it sounds as if you are confused about when to use some of the DB do's & don'ts.
So this is what I suggest at the moment.
1. Start seeing yourself as a free, self-confident, strong male who commands respect from those he interacts with face to face.
2. Have an attitude (or pretend to yourself) and act as if this house is YOUR home and she is only an older lady who is staying at your house temporarily. Measure your actions and interactions according to the image of her being temp boarder.
3. Stop walking on eggshells. It is not saving the M. Relax and be yourself.
4. Stop waiting and watching for her to make changes, or for her to suddenly announce she wants to work on the M.....or when you get to have "the talk".
5. Drop all emotional ropes you have tied to her. Stop telling her that you two can still work on the M. It is pursuit.
6. Do not link her or the M to your needs at this time. She is a boarder.
7. Stop trying some gimmick, hoping it will get a positive response from her.
8. Move forward in your actions, attitude, etc. without her........for now.
9. Be polite and show respectful behavior to her. When she says or acts disrespectful when she is in your presence at home, you deal with it right then. You are trying to control her life. She is living in your home and you will not tolerate ANYONE showing outward disrespect to you in your own house.
10. Stop doormat tactics. It is extremely unattractive and it is NOT the DBing way.
11. Figure out your personal boundaries. Figure out, now, what you will do then if one is broken by your W. Boundaries are set to protect something of yours that is valuable. Research some boundary information on the Internet. Short articles, etc.
I have admittedly been a doormat in a lot of our interactions. This is where I get confused. I want to keep the road home paved and smooth but I also can't let it be at the cost of my dignity or self-respect.
Well, just as some men misinterpret DBing for doormat tactics, they can misinterpret the meaning of keeping the road home paved smooth. What fool would be attracted to a man who had no dignity? It always blows my mind when a man thinks this is what women want in the male species! If you had been that way when she first met you, there would not have been a wedding (unless she had ulterior motives). Women want men to act like men. If a 180 means, to you, that you stop acting like a man.......then it's not a 180 to implement. See what I mean?
I believe you need to stop explaining to your W what you are doing, your intentions, your wishes, etc. b/c it does not help the cause. Stop talking about the M, R, S, D, or the past. Just let it go. You should be in full swing of the LRT.
Some of the things you mentioned, (transparancy, etc.) are steps to be used later....if their is reconciliation. It is not for the present time. I think you are "getting the cart before the horse " with some things and it can sure cause one to be confused.
Nit,
I think Sandi has done a superb job of explaining the difference between quiet power and submissive behaviors. I have nothing to add here as Sandi's captured many of the essential points that you might want to pay attention to and absorb into every cell within your body.
Give it some time and eventually you'll get the hang of it.
First and foremost, you must STOP being afraid of W and her reactions. Be absolutely fearless with your own brand of quiet power that is assertive without being aggressive.
Sandi, can I get your advice on my sitch when you get a chance.
Thanks
Sandi, Wonka, THank you so very much I will respond asap. Whole bunch of Cr@p going down today
Wonka,
I like how you say Quiet power, I never thought about it that way. Firm but not aggressive. Thank you!!
Sandi,
Thank you very much for taking so much of your time to help me gain an understanding of DBing, I really want to do it correctly. You are exactly right when you say I have things mixed up. I have allowed myself to be a doormat. I thought it was the correct way to do things(wrong) because of the comments that my W has made all along. I'm controlling, co dependent, smothering etc. I went to the complete opposite end of the spectrum thinking it was a 180(bonehead move).
I also thought that keeping the road home paved means no arguing, fighting etc and picking your battles.
I realize those things like transparency are not to be used now or until there is movement(a lot) towards softening of W heart towards me. I explained myself wrong there. Explaining what I mean is a problem for me. I am very detailed oriented but sometimes talk so much I confuse the people trying to assist me(including my W at prior points).
I used to jump to a lot of conclusions earlier in my M. I would get upset, not necessarily angry but just disturbed, over stupid things. My W has made comments pertaining to this as far back as 4 or 5 years ago. She said she was afraid to tell me things because she knew what my reaction would be. I, of course, became defensive and dismissed it. It wasn't until the S that I stepped back and took a look in the mirror and realized that my W had some valid reasons to be afraid to do or say something. not because of fear of physicality but because I wasn't open minded or patient enough to see her side of things. This wasn't an all the time thing but it was enough of the time to land me on this board.
The question I was trying to ask was. Isn't part of DBing worrying about what you can control about yourself and not worrying about the WAS thinks or how they react to certain actions you take for yourself?
Your list above is quite extensive. Thank you. I will try to address each one like this:
1. I do see myself like this with a lot of people just not my WAW enough because I am confused when to be assertive and when to back off for my benefit.
2.I have an attitude but I need to show it without sarcasm or judgement.
3.Easier said than done but trying as hard as I can. Most days are fine just have a bad one every so often when I sense W is upset about something(not me all the time).
4.Stopped waiting for W to change but I am observing what my W is doing or how she is acting based on advice from IMC.
5.Haven't told her that in 3 months and that was 1st time since I moved back home last Dec and W has commented on that being the case on one or two occasions.
6.I don't need W or M but I want W and M. Is this the same thing?
7.Could I have an example of a gimmick that I may be doing? Maybe I don't understand.
8. Have been doing GAL without regard to W. Only thing I won't do is date. Allowing myself to change my mind on this if I want but for now I have no desire to "test the waters".
9.I am kind and respectful TOO kind and respectful. I need to grow a pair again. This is a work in progress I have them I just got to show them a bit more often in the correct way at the correct time.
10.Hopefully, I will be doing just that in a very short time (thanks to you and others with such great advice and thoughts).
11.I thought I had personal boundaries way before this all started but now that I am in the Midst of this hell my ability to find forgiveness for myself first, and then my W and others has allowed me to become somewhat more tolerant( I suspect some will say this is to my detriment on some levels).
Thank you so much for your help.
My W moved out 2 days ago. I knew it was coming. Hopefully I handled it in the best way possible.
It has been a long couple days. I will share the details tomorrow.
In the mean time any other advice is welcomed.
Nit,
You might want to look up Train's and MDU's threads over in Infidelity for some ideas on proper boundary setting for a WAS in an Affair.
Back for the story of the move out.
She told me a week and a half ago when I talked about the OM laundry that she was going to be out by month's end. While I took this seriously a part of me didn't want it to happen.
Last week she cleaned out a closet laid the stuff in the living room and asked what I wanted. I picked some stuff and said ok get yours she said I already did, so I took some more and the rest will go the Veterans.
Same thing the next night with the kitchen stuff, then two days off with no movement at all. Friday comes and I am out GAL I come home and she is downstairs going thru that stuff.
I let her do it and go to bed. I wake in the middle of the night to use the bathroom and I go downstairs and see a bunch of stuff in boxes so the move was going to happen. As she was going through stuff, I forgot I left a book that I read in one drawer. It was a good one about worn out women. I know she saw it because it was moved and flipped over but still in the drawer. A lot of pictures of us together were in some of boxes also.
Went back to bed, in the morning I got up normal time for a Sat. she was up right after me(not normal). I took a shower she was near the bathroom while I was in there. When I went back upstairs she asked if I took a shower. I said yes she said because there is a pipe leaking by the washer, I said ok looked at it and something seemed off but it wasn't bad and looked like it had stopped. I went upstairs told my W no big deal I will take care of it and left. Her bed was stripped down so I knew for she was leaving.
I came back 2hrs later there was a truck in the driveway. I didn't know who was there but I went in the house. It was her brother who I hadn't seen in about 5 years. I said hi he shook my hand in front of W and I went about my business. It was quick stop as I had somewhere to be in about an hour.
As I left, there was some small between me and BIL and W added to it as I was leaving. I was gone for about 7 hrs.
I came home and everything looked normal till I went downstairs she took a lot more than was on her list and for some reason. When I checked the garage the door was left wide open(she never does that) for anyone to come in.
I then realized she took Our cat also that made me sad but I am carrying on.
I locked up everything went back upstairs and then discovered some things she didn't take, Wedding Dress, Antique doll collection from Gram ma, lots of food and her Birth control pills. Didn't know why, didn't care why, just found it strange that these were left behind.
I didn't want to stay so I went out and GAL again. I came back 3 hrs later fully expecting other things to be gone nothing else was touched.
I went to bed got up the next morning and started to go through the rubble. I discovered her cell phone receipt with her and her Mom new # that she got the day of the spousal support hearing back in June. She never gave me the number.
I also found her credit cards on accounts in my name only. this is important for proof, I feel, down the road. She is claiming I was the only one who used the cards so she shouldn't be responsible for any charges made while we were together.
All the while I am thinking how to approach W if she returns while I am here. She didn't come back while I was inside but I passed her on the road outside our plan when I was returning after running some errands.
I checked and the alarm clock and her BC pills was all that was taken this trip.
Based on the volume of things she took and the size of the truck she was using I guesstimate about 7 loads, based on the time taken, she must be pretty close, but again she isn't sharing that with me.
A neighbor saw her come back Sun and commented that she was running in the house and running out the house she was there about 20 secs didn't want to see me I guess. he commented.
went about my day. when I got home I decided to clean the kitchen really well. I took all dry foodstuffs and boxed them up and set them by the front door so when(if) W comes back it will be quick for her to get and go.
Kitchen looks good but bare. I will do the same one room at a time. I will set all things I don't want by the door for ease of pickup.
I am now able to make it MY house in most respect except sole ownership. I have wanted to clean the house head to toe for many years now is my chance. When I am bothered I am one hell of a cleaner so it will keep me busy.
She left so me boxing up her left behind things should be no big deal Right?
That night I slept very soundly best in months but when I got up the reality hit me again and it stinks. I have no desire to contact her and I will continue my GAL and 180(cleaning and fixing the house up). at some point, I guess she will come back to get those things. If I am here I am if not I'm not.
I will ask her why she felt the need to take the cat and other things that were in dispute at the moment. I will do it with quiet power not aggression. I need to see what that will look like to me.
Is practicing some things that I want to say helpful or should I just let it flow out if the opportunity presents itself?
Thanks again for all the help. Now that she is moved out it will help me detach more I'm sure but that doesn't mean I have to quit loving my W.
Now that the circumstances have changed do I alter anything as far as DB goes? I will reread Sandi rules again there are things in there that I tried when I was not living in the Marital home. I will go back to those and hope I do a better job this time around.
Thanks in advance for any help or thoughts
Thanks Wonka I will do just that
Well, the weekend is here. Wonder what it holds for me?
I will continue cleaning the house like I planned putting things that belong to my W near the door so if she comes over it wont take her long to load them up and be on her way.
If she does show up and I am around do I just act like she isn't even there until and if she speaks to me? Then let know I think what she did was extremely disrespectful bordering on psychotic or when she shows do I go directly into telling her my thoughts and not let her try to excuse this behavior away?
I have been fine without W at home, I don't have the urge to contact her even if I could. I still am standing for my M but removing myself from the bad and disrespectful behavior my W has exhibited.
I'm sorry you're dealing with that nit. Stay strong. Don't waste your breath saying anything to her unless it is response to a direct question from her. What's the point? Just go about your life and do what you need to do to keep yourself healthy and as happy as you can be under these crazy circumstances. Thinking of you.
THanks Ahoy,
W didn't come over at all this weekend. This is just fine for me at the moment. I GAL'ed and spent some time with the family. Just taking it one day at a time.
I continued to clean so eventually My house will be the way I want it.
I had IMC appt this morning nothing earthshattering happened.
Have a great week everybody
I need to get people's opinion on this.
A great family which is mutual friends to both the W and I just had their 4mo old baby pass away.
When I knew that he was not doing well I reached to the family to offer my support and Prayers. I am assuming my W did the same. They know we are S but don't know my W has moved out recently.
For 3 days I kept in contact with the Family to try and lend support.
The Baby passed the other evening. I didn't find out till the next morning.
When I checked my E-mail that morning. I see my W e-mailed the prior Evening to say the Baby had passed. Since it was 12 hrs later I responded thanks for letting me know and how heartbroken I was for the family.
After I responded, I wondered if I did the right thing by doing so.
I did then reach out to the family to express my condolences.
My W has had contact with this family only 2 times since Our S began according to what they tell me.
I hope I am wrong but it feels like my W is using this tragedy to contact me and Gauge how upset I am with her after the "smash and Grab" moving style she showed 2 weeks ago.
This passing of this Baby brings back bad memories of 4 yrs ago when the same thing happened to another mutual friend of ours, which if you been following my thread from the beginning is where I had finally realized that My W and I needed to start a family of our own.
I know at the Funeral and Memorial Service there is a good Chance I will see my W for the 1st time in 2 weeks.
I am there for the Baby's family and will treat it as such.
I would like to know though if I should just sit by myself or ask my W if she would like to sit with me?
Or let it play and see if she decides by herself to sit with me?
Thoughts appreciated
Just go for the family, as you suggest. Don't ask your wife where she wants to sit. Just let her sit where she wants. Be friendly, but that's all. Don't second-guess why she's using this opportunity to contact you. It's irrelevant and likely she won't tell you and she may feel differently tomorrow, so don't read too much into it. Just be there for your friends during this difficult time and make that your focus during the services.
Well my W has been gone 3 weeks now. I am doing ok.
I am in forced NC. I do not know where she moved to and she never gave me her new cell # since she got it in June.
I really have no desire to talk to her actually.
She has contacted me twice by email. The 1st time was last week to tell me that a mutual friends 4 month old baby passed away. I didn't see the e-mail till the following morning.
W: Heaven gained another angel this evening, little Baby passed away. No answers yet.
Me: I am heartbroken for them, I have been praying for a miracle ever since I found out how dire baby's condition was. I did not know he passed thanks for letting me know. It is so very sad. Me
I saw her at the funeral but we really didn't talk.
When I arrived at the Funeral Home W car was in the parking lot but I didn't pay any attention to it thinking well, she is inside and I will play it cool.
I got out of my car and headed directly toward the door. I heard a car door shut behind me and the quickened pace of high heels behind me. I just kept walking. The heels slowed to a walk and I recognized the walk as my W. I continued inside and consoled the family without looking back at my W. She did acknowledge me after we talked with the family a bit.
During the service we stood on opposite ends of the room. I glanced over a few times and she was tearing up just like I was so at least she still has some emotions. She left pretty quickly after the service and that was that.
At the wake, the baby's family asked me if the W and I drove together. I said no why? They said it seemed strange the way she followed me into the Home.
Then Yesterday W e-mails me to ask if they is any mail or packages for her. I waited till early this morning to respond.
W: Hi, Do I have any mail or Packages? Thanks, W
Me: There are a few pieces of mail but no packages have been delivered.
I think I have done a good job at detaching in the 3 weeks that I have been alone in the house. I am cleaning the way I want. I am packing up things of W that she left behind and putting them near the front door so if she ever comes back to get stuff it will be easier for her to be quick about it.
Still GALing.
It does bother me when she emails me though. I don't think Oh, hey she is missing me and that is why she is contacting me.
It bothers me because of the way she left. I knew she was leaving there was no surprise but she emptied the house of more stuff than I thought or she told she would be taking.
It is just material things but it is the principle of it.
I hope she knows that I don't like the way the move went down. I know she doesn't care what I feel but I certainly hope she knows that I think the way she did it was wrong.
I have no desire to talk R with her at all. No desire to talk at all really but I want her to know that I wont be disrespected by someone who has chosen to move out.
Thoughts and advice about what other things I should or could be doing would be appreciated.
This NC is going ok I suppose.
Being by myself certainly is allowing me to be at ease a little more than when W was living here.
I have found out that W most likely moved in with her Grandmother. I am somewhat happy about this because her Grandmother is older and could use the company plus it means that my W hasn't leased a place for her and OM.
Intel has it that OM has been seen going back to the place he was living before all this started.
All this means to me is W felt like she couldn't live under the same roof as me any longer. I do wonder though, if she was planning on moving with Grandma all along, why she didn't do it right after the spousal support hearing or after she handed me the D complaint.
She has made the 2 email contacts in the 3 weeks since she left I answered both very briefly and I haven't initiated any of my own contact.
I go back and forth whether I should or not. I know I shouldn't and most of the time I am in control of the feelings that make me want to contact her but sometimes I think about the good times and what could happen moving forward if she could understand her part in our failed M. That is when it get a little tough.
I know I shouldn't and most of the time I am in control of the feelings that make me want to contact her but sometimes I think about the good times and what could happen moving forward if she could understand her part in our failed M. That is when it get a little tough.
Unfortunately, you can't make her understand. She has to come to this on her own, and a lot of the time that takes missing you. She can't miss you if you never go away (so to speak).
That's why you don't contact her.
Thanks Little,
I know she has to understand on her own. The question is will it ever happen?
I get the concept of my W missing me. Maybe she will and maybe she wont.
She contacted me once in an email to tell me about a tragedy that I was aware of and once to ask about mail.
I understand the mail question but I don't think there was a need to contact me about the tragedy. She has known that I have stayed close with these friends since our S and she has not. This is why it upset me I guess.
I am having a problem with trusting W at the moment. I believe trust can be regained if there ever is a honest feeling that W wants to work on things.
Right now though, after the way she left, I wonder if the reason she contacted me was to gauge how angry I am with her.
Ok, This has me scratching my head a little.
Yesterday, I was coming upstairs after taking a shower I heard a car out front of my house. I peeked through the shades and saw a fairly attractive woman walking up to my front door. She looked anxious and nervous but not angry.
I caught a quick glimpse of the car and it looked like the OM significant other(whatever that is)car but I couldn't be sure.
I hurried to get dressed. This person didn't knock and my door bell isn't functioning so when I finished dressing I went to answer the door but they were already gone.
I am not completely sure that this woman was who I think it was because I have never actually saw her in person.
It is just strange because it is rare that someone comes to our door that I don't know and we have been here 14 yrs.
The question I have is why is she coming to my door if it is her? I mean this A has been going on for awhile now and it doesn't seem to make sense that contact would happen now maybe sooner but not now. Idk
Second question, If she comes around again and it is the OM woman what do I say to her? I will listen first but I am sure she will ask if I suspect anything.
As much as I am upset with my W, I have tried to keep the A discussions between us as much as possible.
Of course, I empathize with this woman but she isn't my main concern. I am concerned with myself and what I am trying to do.
I am sure this situation has happened to someone on the boards any help is appreciated.
I haven't had this feeling in a long time.
For some reason at work I got this overwhelming feeling of wanting to e-mail my W.
She moved out almost 5 weeks ago and has e-mailed me twice in that timespan. Each time I waited about 12-18 hrs before responding in short answer form. I have not initiated any contact with her.
I don't even know what I would say other than "I hope you are settling in to the place you have moved to ok and I hope our Cat is fine."
Pretty lame reasons for contacting her so that is why I am fighting this urge.
I don't want to give the impression that I am pursuing her. Just would like to know that she and our cat are ok.
I can't say that I don't miss my W but I am getting along doing for myself just fine. I knew I would be ok but that doesn't erase the fact that I still want my M to work.
I was never requested not to contact her after she moved out I just haven't and haven't even wanted to until today.
Is it wise to maybe reach out to her in a very small well thought out e-mail or just continue on like I have been for the last 5 weeks?
I could really us some advice on this. Thanks!!
Well the feeling of e-mailing my W has passed.
Not sure how long till I get it again once it happened yesterday.
In a confusing place right now I guess
It's likely that 5 weeks is not a very long time. You might be in this for months or even years. You'll have to go through hell and keep going. I understand the feeling though. My W and I always had a running email conversation every day, in the background of our work. You can imagine the emptiness of not having it at all now. As for you, an email about the cat's well-being will come across as quite lame, needy, so continue to fight the urge.
I know she has to understand on her own. The question is will it ever happen?
We don't know. And the hardest thing to accept is that there's nothing WE can do to make THEM understand anything. They might, they might not. If they don't, it won't be because we didn't say something. We have to accept that we have no control over something that is so important and obvious to us. This is one reason why we suffer so much. But remember that many of our WAS left us because we exerted too much control, so letting go of something we can't control already plays in our favor.
Thanks for responding Mozza,
Oh, I know this process is long and tedious. I have been at it for 16 months now but DB for only a year. W just moved out 5 weeks ago that is the new twist to my Sitch.
You are correct in what you say about having to accept that we can't make them understand.
I am just in a moment of weakness currently. It will pass but I sometimes feel like, I should not be all forthcoming and pursuing, but at least drop a friendly "hey how ya doin" kind of email.
She was nice enough to email me about the death of a friends Baby. I knew about this situation somewhat before she contacted me but didn't know that it turned tragic. I responded very friendly and caring and kept on point but that was all. I was/am skeptical that that email sole purpose was to inform me of the tragedy but that is coming from the fact that I can't trust my W at the moment.
I guess if she wants to contact me she will
Mr Bond,
I was going through some threads and saw a response you gave in which part of it said "fix yourself and you will be able to get your M on track."
I totally agree with you on this.
I know all Sitches are unique but I am having a hard time at the moment because I believe I have changed(not done yet) a good amount and all my W does is ignore it.
I know I can't make her see the changes but it gets frustrating when one of the things, that was/is an issue in our M, is communication but my W refused to talk to me because she said I would get the wrong idea if she did.
I understand that this is how she has decided to approach the process and I have no control over her decision at all.
Now that my W has moved out the lines of communication, except for 2 emails, have been cut off.
I have been at this a long time and realize I didn't DB to the best of my ability. I had the best of intentions but was confused a bit on how and when to do certain aspects of DB.
Sandi, Wonka, Starsky, Yourself along with others have gotten me to understand a bit of where I have been going wrong and what I might be able to do to help my sitch.
I guess what I am asking is am I still missing something and what can I do from this point on if anything? Or because my W made a choice to move out is it now just a waiting game to see if she has a change of heart?
Thanks in advance for anybody's thoughts or advice.
To further explain my above post,
I am not quitting working on myself because my W has moved out.
I still am seeing a IMC and continuing to do some 180's to make sure they stick if my W does come back and GAL but no dating. I am confident that these changes have taken hold and have become 2nd nature to me for the most part.
It is a little frustrating though that I have been advised for my best interest not to fix up the house or even totally give it a spectacular cleaning. It is a lot better than it was a year ago before I moved back but there is more that could be done.
We are currently exchanging settlement proposals and I will be going back to lower the Spousal support now that W has moved out and has a job that is paying $13,000 more than she claimed at the 1st hearing. This part of the process is going to take awhile for the looks and feel of it. I still have hope but do feel that time is getting shorter to work on things.
I am moving on with my life as much as I can. Even at this point I would like to have my M work out just not sure what to do next.
Well, My L received a letter from W L basically saying we are too far apart and my W has decided to break off negotiations until we can go to court next June which is her 2 year S date.
My S date is May of this year so 2 yrs wouldn't be up till 2016.
Reading his responses to my L letter was pretty disturbing. I guess he is putting her wishes in writing same as my L is doing for me but I can't lie it stings a bit when it starts out with him saying W wishes to refute my claims because of such and such and is highly offended that I would try to insult her intelligence by proposing certain things. I am paraphrasing here but it went like this thoughout the whole letter.
I just wish that my W would talk a little to me leaving the L's out of it and maybe we can save ourselves both some money.
Unfortunately, My W has said about 3 times that she can't talk to me because it will give me the wrong idea. I have told her a couple of times that I can't and won't stop her from doing what she feels is necessary for her well being but we should at least be able to talk civilly about certain aspects of the D and understanding that we can agree to disagree without a world war starting.
We have had 2 discussions by my count about property distribution and the house. The first talk went relatively smoothly but she got upset when I showed her what I did at her request and the reality of numbers didn't add up to what she thought they would. The 2nd conversation was a disaster because it was confrontational when evidence of the OM was brought to light.
I still have the Spousal support hearing so that should be interesting.
I got some small bad new tonight. My Father will start undergoing treatment for Bladder Cancer soon. It should be no problem according to the Doctors and a full recovery is expected but it still is a bit scary. I receive this news before I saw the correspondence from W's L and I was mulling over whether I should inform my W of the situation but now I know that I shouldn't.
An already bad situation has just gotten a little harder and then add my Father's health concerns and it is gonna get even more delicate.
New complication(?) to my Sitch and not sure what to do.
As I suspected from a few weeks ago that was my W OM significant other that was at my house.
The reason I know this is because she just left my house now.
She was very troubled and sad. She spilled what she knew about the A. I told her I had my suspicions about an A but until right now I had no proof.
She went on about how heartbroken she was that My W and OM were breaking apart both relationships especially theirs because of the children.
Apparently, This woman has confronted my W on a couple of occasions and my W was very arrogant towards her.
Apparently telling her that she was being intimate with OM and can't get enough of him. But OM keeps lying to this woman that nothing is going on and to "mind your business".
I told her it took great courage to come to me and when she left she said she felt better getting it off her chest.
I told her I feel for her children and hope things will work out for the best.
She said she will call me if she get any pertinent information.
I am not sure why I asked her this question but I asked. "Are you completely done with OM now that he is having an A with my W?"
She responded that she still loved him very much and they have a Family.
I Guess just by her showing up at my house I should have known this but it was a nerve racking time.
Don't know what to do with this info so I could use some advice.
I know not to divulge intel but If My W asks me if I have talked to this woman like she did 6 months do I say yes she was here,
but not tell her what was discussed? Or do I deny any knowledge of OMW ever being here.
I have a feeling, now that OMW knows I feel the same as she does, that she may confront OM and he will in turn tell my W then my W will start to ask questions possibly.
I will stand my ground if this happens and see what happens from there.
Still trying to figure out if it is a good or bad thing that this happened.
Well don't tell, but I wouldn't lie if asked a direct question.
Not sure how to put any spin on it or weather you need to. I'm not sure what the db stand would be.
You could try to say confidentially I didn't discuss our conversations, so I won't discuss hers and mine. Common courtesy. Yatter yatter!
Thanks Ggrass,
I can honestly say I didn't discuss any private conversations that my W and I had if my W should ask that question.
I just told OMW that I had given my W ample opportunity to tell the truth just like she had done with OM.
Each of us had the same predictable outcome. Both My W and OM denying the truth.
I want to be a little mysterious about this with my W if she asks because I don't want to let her know how much I know on my own Vs what OMW may have enlightened me on.
I'm sure there are arguments for both but what are the thoughts of people on here. Is it a good thing or a bad thing that this has transpired in your opinions?
My L is setting up the Modification hearing to attempt and reduce the Spousal support I pay my W till we are D.
I don't know what will come of it but either way I don't think it will please my W to be back in court. Not my Problem.
I am still having a problem wrapping my Head around the visit from the OM's Wife or girlfriend but most definitely Mother of his children.
I empathized with her mostly because we are in the same predicament. We both want the A to end so we can try and put our R slowly back together hopefully. I know there are no "for sures" in this Sitch and even if the A ends it doesn't mean that my M will get back on track but it is the only scenario that makes it possible.
thoughts and advice appreciated.
Nit,
I hear you calling my name and here I am!
A couple of things:
-Have you quit drinking completely?
-It is best to stop talking with W about property, asset divisions. Let your L do the talking/negotiations.
-Is your W still at home?
-I would stop talking with OMW completely. It just muddies waters unnecessarily.
Starsky's wife did the same as your W...coming and going at all kinds of hours. If I recall correctly, Starsky just locked the doors at 11:00 am. He did not wait up at all. I think I'll let Starsky chime in here and share his experiences with his formerly WAW.
Oops...I meant to say 11:00 PM.
Wonka,
Thank you very much for hearing my call. Yes I stopped drinking the day after my W asked me to move out back in June of 2013. Not because I thought I had a problem but because my W thought it was a problem so out of respect for her and attempting to R I stopped completely. Honestly I don't miss it. Nothing but Church wine in 17 months.
I realize that talking to my W about Property and Assets are pointless but When she brought it up I thought I did a good job discussing it. She accused me of roadblocking in the days after the D complaint was handed to me by her. So I thought I would offer my thoughts in a calm manner but when I did it like that it still upset my W so as soon as that happened I thanked her for the talk and removed myself.
My W moved out the last Saturday in Sept taking a boatload of stuff that wasn't discussed and our cat without me even having a chance to say goodbye.
The OMW came to my home just this past weekend, for the fist and maybe only time, we talked for awhile. I didn't give up much info just telling her I suspected something and this just comfirms it. I asked if she was"done" with OM and she said she loved him and they have a family so no she is hurt and wants the lying and the A to stop. I didn't speak bad of OM or my W to her. She said she felt better after meeting me and letting me know. I will let her be the wedge that hopefully ends the A.
She told me she didn't care if I told my W she came over because she has confronted my W on 3 occasions and she admits to the A to her but she frustrated because OM is still denying it.
The OMW and OM are still initimate and according to OMW(total mind read by her)when OM and OMW talk my W stops her workout and is watching from afar in a jealous way.
I started doing the same thing as Starsky as soon as I moved back to the M home last Dec.
My big issue is I didn't and still don't know how to set a proper boundary.
I have made terrible DB mistakes and hope it is not too late.
I was a doormat.
Since my W has moved out She has Emailed twice and I responded both time but after 12 hrs or so not on purpose but because I didn't read my Emails till then.
I don't know what OMW plans are in regards to any more contact with me or my W or how she is handling her own M. The OM is at her home everyday but is staying at a friends(not my W) for the nights. My W is living with her GrandMother.
I do have feeling that one of two things may happen.
1. My W will be very upset about OMW contacting me and wondering what I said to her. She will turn it around and make it my fault.
2. My W will come back crying(crocodile tears) and try to play on my Love for her.
Of course neither of the above will happen unless OMW does something to initiate it. I don't believe I should say anything about OMW but keep this to myself till, if ever, the time is right.
Thanks Again
Starsky, Could you look at my thread again. Wonka says you may be able to help some more.
Everybody else is welcomed also MrBond, Sandi2, 25 etc...
Thanks to all in advance for thoughts and advice
I am thinking about emailing my W. She moved out 8 weeks ago and the only contact we have had is 2 emails sent by her that I responded to very briefly and about 12 hrs later.
When she moved out there was no talk like "I'm leaving don't ever contact me again".
I have not attempted any contact from my side and if I do email her it would be something short like
"Good evening, I hope this message finds you well. just dropping you a note to tell you that there is some mail here at the house for you. ME".
I feel I want to do this to see if I get any response not any other reason.
The last email from her was 5 weeks ago and she asked if she had any packages or mail I answered "yes there is mail but no packages."
She has yet to come and get it.
I could really use some advice on what to do now. It feels weird that I haven't talked with my W in 8 weeks. I know she needs her space and I am giving it to her but I don't like it.
I am ok 98% of the time it is just that 2% that has me questioning how I am approaching this S at this time.
Any help would be appreciated greatly!
I emailed my W last Sat but not for the reason I mentioned ^^^.
I emailed her to ask if would agree to pay her share of bills from the last month she was living in the Marital home with me.
This is what I emailed "Good Evening, I hope you had a great Thanksgiving. I am asking if you would agree to pay your portion of bills from Sept. that came due in Oct. and Nov. Thanks H"
W responded 36 hrs later by saying email the bills and she would look into it.
Yesterday I emailed copies of the bills and now I wait I guess.
If she agrees to pay these bills that would be great it not a lot of money between 90.00 and 100.00 so most likely she will have no problem with it but who knows.
If she does respond favorably should I attempt to open up any other dialogue? For instance, "Hey there is mail here for you and/or I have put some of your things in boxes that you left behind if you wanted to come get them."
In the process of finishing cleaning a spare room I started last year. I csme across a typed list of issues my W had with me and our M. Not sure if it was planted by her for me to find when I moved back last year or was just buried under the mess that was in this room.
Either way doesn't matter. She never gave this letter to me. I read it and it wasn't shocking what it contained, mostly things that I would agree might have been problems and honestly things that I have already worked on and feel I have changed since our S 18 months ago.
This list was compiled or typed sometime between 2010 and 2012 so I know it has been and issue for my W for a long time. I just wonder why she didn't give me the list then or at least attempt to talk to me about this issues. She mentioned things in passing but we never ever sat and discussed these issues.
None of these problems are unsolveable and frankly not sure they even need to be solved. I can just let my actions show that they are taken care of and I have rectified them myself at least my part of them. My W still needs to accept her part of the failure but I feel good that without even seeing this list I set out to be a better H and in the process fixed some of these issues.
Not mind reading but I would like to think that before my W moved out she saw by my actions that I have changed things that bothered her and she knows that I did it without the benefit of seeing this list she compiled. It may not save my M but I still have hope and I couldn't have that if I hadn't put my mind to changing myself.
Thoughts appreciated about whether I should attempt a little more contact if things go ok with the bill payment request or anything concerning this list I have found.
I saw my IMC counselor this Morning. I went over the last months goings on and She was surprised about the OMW coming to see me. I also showed my Counselor the list that I found from my W
She said it is very helpful to have it because it shows my W perception of our M. The things she saw in the list were everything that her and I have tackled over the last 18 months and it is good that I have done this without the benefit of seeing the list.
She says the story of our separation is still unfolding to some extent and by me doing what I have been doing it puts me in a good place no matter what happens.
We ran out of time so I didn't get ask her what I should do now. Do I attempt to contact my W and ask her about this list? Do I tell her that the OMW has been to see me? I think it was 25 or Sandi2 that said "sometimes the best action is no action at all" I apologize if it was another Vet that said this but now I am a bit confused on my next step.
Any help is welcomed
Nit,
Saw that you asked for some help over in Vertex's thread so here I am. So sorry for being MIA for so long.
Crazy stuff has happened and it's tough keeping up with threads that are pretty fast moving these days.
First of all, I would put away the list for some other time. Now is not the time to bring it up for: 1) it would make W feel that you invaded her privacy from her perspective despite the fact that she left the list behind and 2) W is still actively engaged in a full-blown A with the OM with no sign of let up.
It would not be advisable to share or inform W that OMW has been around to chat with you. File it away. It is between you and OMW. I find it interesting that OMW confronted W about the A and to stay away from the OM. Apparently it had no effect on W whatsoever.
Yes, inaction is also action. Sometimes doing nothing produces the desired results.
I suggest that you pull back on the emails to W. Don't be too available to her.
What is the status of your situation right now? W living at home or? Where are you with S papers? How long has the A been doing on to date?
Wonka,
Glad you are back.
My W is living with her Grandmother, although I am not supposed to know this. D complaint was filed back in April. W asked for Spousal support in June. W stayed in M home till end of Sept.
We have exchanged settlement proposals and her L thinks we are too far apart to reach an agreement so they want to break off negotations till the 2 year S date(theirs).
From what OMW says it has been going on Since Feb 2014. I think it has been a PA for 14 months and a EA since our S in June 2013.
I was real careful with what info I shared with OMW. I didn't want to divulve too much to her.
I have only emailed my W twice and that was in last 10 days and was just about paying bills for the last month she was living here. Other than that she emailed me twice in Oct and that is the extent of our contact in 2 1/2 months.
IMHO, My W had a plan She wanted OM to move out of OMW house so they could move in together. She has been trying to find OM a job since July. So far to no avail. W waited 2 months to move out after OM did. Not sure why.
OMW tells me that OM is at the house everyday and they are still intimate on occasion. He is sleeping at a friends house at night.
Maybe that is why my W is living with Grandma because those plans haven't work the way she planned.
OMW said she wished she had come to me earlier but didn't in the 3 confrontations they had OMW said W was arrogant when they were alone but when OM was there she was real nervous like a jealous school girl. and would watch them talk alone peeking through windows
OM has continued to lie to OMW about any A and says to just mind her business. They have 2 children together 11 and younger and OMW just wants her family back and the lies to stop.
OM is just 1 year younger than I am, not that that makes any difference but I always thought W thought I was too old to start a family.
W mentioned back in July that she no longer wanted children with anybody. I believe this do to the fact that OM already has a family and doesn't want any more kids.
Knowing my W she is only saying she doesn't want kids because of OM lack of interest in any new ones. But deep down she wants Children just like for the longest time she wanted them with me but I was selfish.
I can fill in any other questions you may have. Thanks Again!!
Thank you, Nit.
We have exchanged settlement proposals and her L thinks we are too far apart to reach an agreement so they want to break off negotations till the 2 year S date(theirs).
Can you please describe the areas where you two are far apart?
Also the areas where there's general agreement.
IMHO, My W had a plan She wanted OM to move out of OMW house so they could move in together. She has been trying to find OM a job since July. So far to no avail. W waited 2 months to move out after OM did. Not sure why.
Possible. We just don't know. It is W's problem, not yours.
It seems that this A is pretty complicated given that OM has a family and appears not to want to leave his family. I sense that the affair will eventually fizzle out or OM will make the decision to end it if W pushes him to decide between her or OMW. Oftentimes, when there's an A with OM with a family, the woman who he's having an affair with tend to PUSH for a decision and most of the time the OM always falls back on the path of least resistance: his own family and wife.
When was the last time you had a face-to-face encounter with W? In what content did it take place? How wast the interaction?
What have you been doing with GAL?
Wonka,
Basically I believe my W has a money figure in mind and her L is mixing a lot of accounts from back when we S and then using more recent number for the retirement plans. My W asked me to find out how much I would be eligible for if I were to refinance the home. I did this and when she was asking me what I wanted property wise about two months later I said I have something for you also to discuss. I let her finish and we were in somewhat agreement over property.
Then she said "what do you have for me?" I told her what value the bank put on the house and the basis of the loan. I knew she wouldn't be happy with the banks value estimate(I was overjoyed because I felt the house was not worth what the bank thought. To cover my bases I had a private appraisal done where he actually walked through the house. That appraisal came in 10,000 less than the bank's.
When I explained to my W that I would assume all the marital debt if she just signed a paper recognizing I borrowed money in my name only against a house she is still part owner of we could get that out of the way. As it works out I would have been able to borrow exactly what our entire debt would be so by assuming her portion it was like a 50/50 split. She would have absolutely no debt and I would have a house that actually is not worth the amount I refinanced it for but would take that risk because I love the and plan on fixing it up once money is available.
Once she had seen the figures she got upset because she was saying she couldn't believe our house went down in value since the last refinance in 2003. I told her it stinks that it did but we haven't kept it up like we should have.
She said I told you to refinance 3 years ago. I said you did and we tried but we hadn't hit the needed debt to equity ratio yet but in 2 to 3 years if we stayed the course it was likely that we could do it then.
Problem is at some point my W jump off the ship because she didn't believe me that this would happen. When I told her this is what we were working towards and it finally happened even though we are separated and she lost her job. She was incensed. I said I never lost sight of the goal and I kept you up to date the whole time. This S stinks but I still kept up with what was a goal ours even if now it is only me.
I told her when we first S that "a D would Emotionally and Financially devastate us both." She heard "This will finanically devastate you."
She believes she deserves more property and money because she makes less money and because she has to start over.
We agree that their should be no Alimony Post D and we both should pick up our own legal fees.
Not sure if that will change if there is another proposal given to me.
The last time I was face to face with my W was at a Funeral for a friends 4 month old baby.
She had basically lost touch with these friends after the S where I had not When the tragedy happened I was supportive when they needed or wanted me. I was in touch with the family and once the Baby passed away I didn't get the new till the next day because I was letting them handle it on their term.
I checked my email that morning and my W actually emailed me that previous night saying he had passed. This was the 1st contact since she moved out 10 days previous. I answered her saying I was praying and knew it was bad but did not know he passed thanks for letting me know.
At the funeral home I went to the viewing and knew I wouldn't see my W because she was still working. It was really sad.
I told the family I would be there for the Funeral the next day. I wasn't positive my W would come but when I pulled in to the lot I saw her car and said ok just act cool because when you go in she will be there. So I thought anyways. I got out of my car and headed for the door I heard a car door shut and the hurried pace of high heeled shoes. I just kept my normal gait not looking behind me. the paced slowed and I knew that walk, it was my W. I still continued in to the home not looking back.
Once through line I stood in an area. My W was behind me and I thought I heard her say "hey" in a soft voice. She went around me and stood in front of me and I said "hi" she didn't say anything then she turned and came towards me I asked her a quick question about the color that everybody was wearing and she answered and walked away. We stood at opposite ends during the service. It was emotional for me. I was tearing up and when I looked over at her she also was crying. At Least I know she still has feelings.
After the service she left right away. Later that evening I went over to the house with the family to comfort them. Strangely, They asked if My W and I came together. I said no and they said it sure looked that way and how she seemed to wait for me show up before entering the Funeral home.
That was our only face to face in almost 3 months now.
I agree with you on the A. that is why I am patiently waiting but also still working on myself.
My W has tightened her circle up real tight. She has forgotten or ignored all her friends except the couple of new ones from the gym she joined before we S. OM is a trainer there and this is how A started. She told me about other male friends she had at the Gym but I can't see any of them having interest in her after she made her choice of the trainer.
If this A fizzles, she has pretty much burned a lot of bridges with mutual friends, she will have to build new relationships with them or others. If she were to decide to work on our M my friends who were mutual told me they would still be friends with us. They would support our efforts to R and not judge my W or I. She doesn't know this. My W believes all these friends have taken my side and that is why she dropped them.
As far as GAL. I volunteer at my good friend Dog Grooming shop to be around the dogs and cats. In fact I am playing Santa Claus for them for pictures. I have played Santa in the past for Children at the club I belong to. Unfortunately it recently closed but before it did I would go there on Friday and Saturday nights. The running joke is that the Club shut down because I stopped drinking and there was no money to pay the light bill. My W and I would spend probably 100.00 every weekend when we were there.
I also love to watch Airplanes take off and Land so I go out to the closest airport and sit and watch them while sometimes journaling.
My Nephew Plays College Hockey Local to me so I go watch all his games. That is not new but Before We would miss some because we had other things to do now I make sure I don't miss any. I joined a different gym than my W actually a couple. I was going faithfully but then got busy at work so that has stopped but I need to get back into it over the winter.
Believe it or not I consider Cleaning my house a GAL activity because it is something I wanted to do but didn't because my W took it as a slap in the face that I was trying to clean to show her up and therefore we always ended up arguing about it so it never got done. I have been back in the house for a year next week and I started to clean back then but now that it is just me It is easier. I don't have the money to do the renovation work I want to do because it is tied up in this mess.
I continue to go to the same concerts I did when we were happy and still will attend a Nascar event that is a yearly thing.
Sorry this so long but I couldn't figure out how to shorten it.
Thanks again for any help.
Another GAL I forgot to mention is and this could be considered a 180 also.
For a year now I have returned to going to church almost every Sunday and my W has certainly noticed this and is upset that I am going. Her exact words were "I am glad you are going to church because GOD know you wouldn't do that for me." I responded "I am doing it for me but you are certainly more than welcome to join me at any time it is an open invitation."
Wonka, I also saw on another thread where you suggested this man Forgive himself and his XW.
I have done this and it is very freeing to say the least and it has allowed me not to build resentment for my W and to allow me to continue to stand for my M.
I still have my weak moments but they pass much more quickly when I remember that I have forgiven myself for past wrongdoings and for current things my W is doing.
It is a shame that other friends and family see this new Nit and my W won't allow herself to believe it will stick. I know she has noticed all the changes and fully understand her choice not to come back to the M at this moment but that is what hurts. I did all these things for me and I am a much better man for it. I venture to say even a better man than the one my W fell in love with.
The new Nit WANTS to share himself with my W I do not NEED to share me with my W.
After all we have been through she deserves first shot at this new Man I have become. I fully recognize though that she may not, for her own reasons, take advantage of this chance.
Nit,
I am/have been working on a proposal and putting the finishing touches on it. As you can see, I'd rather have fun with my DB friends than the paper! Ha!
Hey, this girl has her priorities....
I am glad to hear about your GAL activities. Good for you!
For a year now I have returned to going to church almost every Sunday and my W has certainly noticed this and is upset that I am going. Her exact words were "I am glad you are going to church because GOD know you wouldn't do that for me." I responded "I am doing it for me but you are certainly more than welcome to join me at any time it is an open invitation."
Oops...you missed out on a golden opportunity to validate W. If something similar comes up again, you could say, "Thank you for that. Wow, I didn't realize that you felt you were not important. I am sorry that you felt that way. That could not be further from the truth. You are valuable. You have an open invitation to join me at anytime."
Then walk away with a cheery smile.
Act as if you're happy with yourself and life. That type of attitude is contagious!
Wonka, No doubt I missed that particular chance. It was back in July
I have validated things my W has said since. Maybe not enough though, or the right way.
She is not living with me anymore so I will have to make the most of any opportunity I get.
I have been given the gift of time. I just wish I had used the time I have already had in a better way.
Hopefully from now on things will be different when(if) we see each other. I am hoping that this physical S is helpful for both my W and I.
I don't like it but it was probably the best thing.
My only issue is the next possible time I will see my W is in early Jan for the Spousal Support modification hearing and neither one of is going to be in good mood I suspect. I will appear cheery and all but underneath it will be all twisted.
I don't think we will be exchanging loving glances that day.
I have enjoyed my "alone" time but I would prefer if my W and I had at least a little more contact outside of the hearing office where things weren't so adversarial.
Not necessarily her living back at home with me at this point but maybe a smidgeon of "I had it pretty good, and now I'm conflicted." if that makes any sense.
Thanks again
Nit,
Yeah...it is tough and your W seems to think that you're out to rip her off. That is typical for many WASes who think that they can ride on the so-called gravy train of D. Not the case. Oh well, they'll find out shortly.
The only thing I can suggest is sending out a very simple text to W wishing her a Merry Christmas and leave it at that. That is what Ms. Wonka and I did over the past 10 years...we exchanged Xmas, HBD, and HNY texts. Then our texts have become more regular this year after March 2014 with 1x per month texts initiated by Ms. Wonka.
Wonka,
Thank You!! I will have to send an email as she has got her own cell phone account and didn't give me the number.
I know the number though because she left her contract and invoice behind. I don't think it is a good at this point to let her know I know her number.
Here is a question though. Last Year I sent out Christmas cards to her family. I first asked a Cousin of my W before I did. The Cousin thought it was very good idea. My W asked me if I sent cards and I said Yes. She just looked at me and said nothing and I didn't continue the discussion after I said Yes.
This Cousin has unfriended me on social media back around when my W handed me the D complaint. Probably more out of support for my W than hatred for me.
Should I send cards this Year? Should I contact the Cousin again this year to see if she thinks it is still a good idea? A text between us would be private if neither of us told my W. On social media it could be seen that we are still friends.
I don't want to get into any discussion with this Cousin just a simple question like last year.
I have no way of knowing currently when but should I send the Merry Christmas then Happy New Year wishes at times that my W may be with OM?
Nit,
No cards to W's family nor talk with her cousin at all. I didn't send any to Ms. Wonka's family. A simple Merry Xmas text to W would suffice.
I have another couple questions to ask.
In a couple days there is a fund raiser for 2 people, a H and W, who both are stricken with Cancer at the moment.
They are good friends of my W and I. Their Daughter and Grand Daughters are also very good friends.
It is being held at a club we are members of. My MIL will be bartending.
This night is all about the couple. I will certainly keep it that way.
My questions are. Do I acknowledge my W or allow her to come to me. Do I go to my MIL part of the bar or do I go to another bartender for my Water?
This will be the first time I see my W(if she comes) in 2 1/2 months and the first time in 15 months for my MIL.
If you guys advise me to say hi to my W, is that all or do I ask how she is doing? Do I ask my MIL how she is doing or how my FIL is doing? He is not in the best of health and I have not seen him since this S began.
This will be the first time I will be at this club in 11 months so I am also curious about the way I will be received by some of the "bar" friends. When this all started most if not all of these mutual "bar" friends were quietly wishing me luck and saying it shouldn't be this way. I realize they could be saying the same thing to my W. I trust people a lot and feel mostly they want to see us together. I know for a fact that no one knows about my W OM unless they have seen it with own eyes.
My W has done a good job of not saying too much to these people from what I am told. Which is a good thing.
This is one of those times that I feel I need to make the most of any interaction with her family. Others in W family could be there also. Uncles, Aunts brothers etc.
Do I acknowledge my W or allow her to come to me.
You can't stop her from coming to you if she wants to. (Remember who's in control of whom?)
And of course you acknowledge her if she does. Remember, you're living a good life without her, you're not trying to be a miserable old codger. What would that show her? That you're angry and so she can't approach you? Not attractive.
Do I go to my MIL part of the bar or do I go to another bartender for my Water?
You can go to her in her role as bartender. You can say hello, maybe pay her a compliment, but don't get into anything else. If MIL initiates a conversation, I wouldn't do more than validate whatever she says then move on.
If you guys advise me to say hi to my W, is that all or do I ask how she is doing?
I wouldn't approach her. I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid her, either. If she approaches you, let her. Then STFU. You don't ask her how she's doing. You're doing fine without her, right? You're really not interested in prying. If she talks, you validate, validate, validate, STFU.
I went to a similar thing several weeks back. I knew that some of my W's friends there were aware of her A, and that she's told them her narrative of why I deserve all this. Part of me wanted to go just to face this whole situation down - I will not go into social hiding just because it might be uncomfortable for W or cause a few people to talk. I had an uneventful, enjoyable evening.
That's your only goal - you're going to support the fundraiser. Limit it to that, and no expectations.
IMHO, of course.
-Zew
Nit,
My suggestion is to go there alone with new clothes, nice facial appearance, and small dab of cologne.
You can acknowledge W in a friendly manner. As for MIL, you an say "hi, it's good to see you. I hope FIL is feeling a bit better and please give him my regards." Then go about your business. Don't offer to bartend alongside her.
The one question we never, never ask our WAS is 'how are you?' because they feel that you're intruding into their private space and their wall will go right up. Then you'll lose your chance to showcase the fabulous Nit. You can say "hi" to W and comment tHat you hope the fundraiser is a success because those people will need everyone's support.
Now, I want to be gentle here....you need to mentally prepare yourself for the possibility that W may bring OM to this event. In her mind, W most probably feels she's "single" which means she is 'free' to bring him around. Not saying that it'll happen, if ever.
The goal is to mingle and be your charming self while attending to the friends you're supporting....which is the purpose of the fundraiser.
Zew and Wonka, Thank you so much for the above thoughts!!
Zew, I wouldn't want to stop her from approaching me. I know I am doing fine on my own. I just wondered How much of an effort I should put forth to "run into her". Thanks for answering that for me.
Wonka,
sorry, I read that as should you allow her to come to you, but you meant as opposed to you going to her. Ha!
I wouldn't track her down, or stare her down either. She's just another person at the fundraiser.
Trigger happy I guess.
Wonka,
Funny you mention new clothes... I already picked out my outfit, a little hair jel, a dab of W favorite cologne a slight 5 o'clock shadow and I am set(any suggestions on the dark circles under eyes?). I have always had them so it wont be a shock just wondering is all.
I won't ask how she is doing as I typed that I think I already knew that answer.
Her bringing the OM is not even a remote possibility. He is not a member of the club not saying he couldn't sit in the lot but it is highly unlikely.
I most definitely will mingle but I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. I am a social butterfly at this club and know pretty much every member so I will be ok just looking out for their feelings is all.
I have not gone down to this club in this long because I have been doing other GAL and also not to put some friends in an awkward position of worrying about talking to me or my W for that matter.
If my W wants to talk about anything other than the fundraiser. I will politely say that we should do it some other time over coffee maybe not here, not now because of the importance of this night.
Since I don't know her new(since June)cell number do I slide in "maybe text me tomorrow if you are free and we can meet" or just keep it email for now?
A bad thing about this night is the Woman half of this couple that the fundraiser is for told me last year how she told my MIL to butt out of my W and I marriage and she told my W on several occasions throughout the years that she was misunderstanding what I saying to her and that she was getting upset over nothing.
This woman is good friends with my MIL but I believe her when she tells me that in the past she has told my MIL these things and actually she is not the only one but MIL is a different sort of person. I know my MIL and I love her but I also am wary of her at the same time.
Zew, Thanks you have always been helpful to me and I appreciate it very much.
Since I don't know her new(since June)cell number do I slide in "maybe text me tomorrow if you are free and we can meet" or just keep it email for now?
No. You need to follow W's lead on this one.
A bad thing about this night is the Woman half of this couple that the fundraiser is for told me last year how she told my MIL to butt out of my W and I marriage and she told my W on several occasions throughout the years that she was misunderstanding what I saying to her and that she was getting upset over nothing.
This woman is good friends with my MIL but I believe her when she tells me that in the past she has told my MIL these things and actually she is not the only one but MIL is a different sort of person.
Stay out of this. It's between those two women. Just carry on at the fundraiser.
I plan on staying out of it Wonka. I provided this info to give the board some more info about the dynamic of my M.
My MIL is a very selfish person in a lot of respects and it did put unneeded stress our M. My W and I did a good job of screwing things by ourselves without influence.
Now that we are S my MIL is depending on my W for a lot more and I am sure enjoys the extra time my W has to give her.
My W is more like the Mother in that relationship and MIL is more like the daughter.
I have been told throughout my M and before that our dating. That my MIL is extremely jealous of the life my W and I led because hers was not what she wanted.
We included her in a lot of our fun times. Vacations, concerts, Nascar races, Events on my Family's side etc.
I had no problem with at all for a long time. Then I realized that my W and I hadn't been alone on a vacation since our Honeymoon. My W brought this to my attention about 4 months before our S and I worked on surprising her with a vacation but I had to tell her because we both needed to get passports and when I did it was met with indifference and 2 months later we were S.
Thanks for keeping me on track!!
I am getting close to the end of this thread. Can anybody show me how to put all 4 of my previous threads in my 5th thread so if anyone cares to, it will be easier to access them?
Thanks in advance
Hey Nit.
go to the beginning of each of your threads, highlight the URL at the top of your screen (starts with
www.divorcebuisting.com/blahblahblah), copy (ctrl+c) and paste it (ctrl+v) into the new thread. then go to your next thread and do the same.
This works easier if you have two windows of this site open at one time (side by side).
I hope this helps. There may be easier ways too.
Thanks U-turn I will do that!!
Wish me luck.
I will be seeing my MIL and most Likely my W for the first time since she moved out.
I am dressed nicely, hair jel, dab of colongne, 5 O'clock shadow,
Some self-confidence and a Big smile.
Thanks NAJ,
It went ok, About what I expected I said Hi to everybody they were nice.
I turned around and my W was over a bit from me and I saw her I waved first then she waved back. I said hello to my MIL as she was walking away she said Hi to me and that was the extent of it.
Had a good time with the people I sat with. They know the deal and I didn't say anything bad about my W or MIL I cracked a few jokes amongst us that were funny but they were related to my issues so everybody knew who it was about. I wasn't mean just trying to break the tension. one daughter at the table asked quietly if we were still living together and I said no and said to her I thought you knew because I told your mom. She said she didn't and it must be a big secret. I said that's fine. I then said please don't tell my W I told you. She said she wouldn't but did say it was great that I was in IMC and she thinks I am a great guy and my W should be going with me. I looked at her and said it is up to my W if she wants to come I asked once and wont do it again
My W then hit the 50/50 Raffle and she wouldn't look at me as she went to get the money. Someone at the table said hey you get half write that down. I said I should ask her to buy me a water we chuckled and then I said my good byes as my W was calling number on the Chinese Auction. Was close to her when I left not sure if she saw me or not doesn't matter.
I didn't look at my W as much as I thought I would but when I did it hurt my heart. I still love her. I held it together at the club but now that I am home I am pretty down. Wondering if the jokes I told were bad, wondering what was said to the one person sitting at our table I didn't know. I think someone caught her up to speed that I may or I am getting a D not sure. I tried to be quiet but The 50/50 remarks not made by me I think had her puzzled. I can't control what others say or do so I have to let that go.
These people all know I love my W and would like nothing better than to see us work though this and R so I am comfortable with how the night went.