I’ve been lurking here awhile, but finally decided to register and post this weekend. I’ve read through Sandi’s rules and the info for newcomers.
Anyway, with my story, where do I even begin? I first found out H was unhappy in February 2013. Prior to that, I had no idea how discontent he’d been, though I later found out he’d been feeling that way for years. We’d been actively trying to get pregnant for 6 months before he told me how he felt. A week after this revelation, we found out we were pregnant, but then I miscarried a few days later. We stopped trying after that.
We started MC a few months later, on the recommendation of a friend of mine. We saw her weekly for nearly a year, and while seeing her was helpful for both of us, as we learned how to be more open and vulnerable in general and with each other, in February 2014, he stated he was done, right after we came back from a nice weekend vacation. I was floored because I felt like our trip had been successful, but he argued that he still didn’t feel that “spark/connection” he wants and has “always denied himself because he never felt he deserved it.” Our MC encouraged us to keep pushing on and just see where the ride takes us, because she felt we were making good progress. In April, this time he stated he was REALLY done, and that he “wanted to get off the ride.” That was when I noticed our MC’s attitude toward us changed and that she seemed to think there was no hope. We saw her for a few more sessions, through the beginning of June, while she helped us navigate the waters of “uncoupling.”
I work in a school, so H agreed that I could stay in the home until the end of the school year. We decided it made sense for him to stay in our townhouse and for me to move because 1) I had someone else I could move in with, and 2) he makes more money than me and can handle the mortgage payments, while it would be a stretch for me. I moved out at the beginning of July, while he was away on an overnight camping trip with some brand new friends he’d met at a meetup event. Once H decided he was done in April, he began actively going out and trying to meet new friends, because he’s realized he really doesn’t have any.
Around April or May, I picked up both DB and DR and read them cover to cover. H halfheartedly began reading DB but then stopped only a little ways in. I’ve been talking to a DB coach since mid-June. I’ve had 5 sessions so far, and have 1 left, but haven’t scheduled it yet. The last time I spoke with her was 7/18. She felt I was making good progress and recommended that I make an appointment for my last session after some time had passed and assuming that positive changes were still occurring. However, a lot has changed (in a bad way) since then.
When I moved out, I had already been making some changes over the previous month and seemed to be getting positive results. H had complained that we didn’t spend quality time together (that I was always on my phone), that he hadn’t felt loved (his LL is primarily Acts of Service, while mine is Words of Affirmation), and that he felt I had emotional walls up. I changed by making sure to really listen to him and give him my full attention when we were together (not using my phone at all when we are together), started speaking his LL, and really worked hard to bring down emotional walls. We also have been ML a lot more than in the past few years, and I have been enjoying it much more, which was one of his complaints in the past, especially when we were trying to get PG. To me it always felt like he just wanted to ML because he had a biological urge, while I felt emotionally disconnected from him and therefore never felt in the mood. I learned through MC how important ML is to him in order to feel connected, and once I learned that, it’s been a much more loving and enjoyable experience for me. He was responding positively to the quality time, me speaking his LL, and my being more vulnerable. In turn, I felt like we were connecting a lot more. He also stated that he can feel that I love him now, whereas he still believes that during the early part of our relationship/marriage, I didn’t love him.
From February to April, there was also a lot of crying and pleading and trying to reason with him. After reading DR and DB, I stopped most of the crying, pleading, and begging (though I admit I backslide on this at times when my emotions get the best of me), and stopped asking him where he was going, even though he has made a good LF and spends a lot of time with her. I can tell that she is truly just a platonic friend, but it still bothers me. (I can talk more about that later, but that will need to be a whole separate post.) H’s birthday was at the beginning of July, so I did something low-key for him that really touched him, and he thanked me sincerely, with tears in his eyes. The lack of gifts and little things for past birthdays was another point of contention for him, so I made sure to do a little something for him this year, at my DB coach’s suggestion.
Right before I moved out, H seemed very sad and conflicted, yet insisted this is what he still wanted and that he is intent on going through with D. He claimed he was planning to file mid-July, while his sister was visiting, and has written up the paperwork, though I have not yet been served. I know it’s been written up though, because he’s showed it to me. My DB coach encouraged me to continue to initiate contact with him during our separation and to casually suggest hanging out, which he has been open to doing, though I’ve noticed in the last week he has been pulling away. We’ve both read through the book “Inner Bonding,” and it has helped us tremendously in getting more in touch with and honoring the feelings of our inner child, yet I have noticed that as he has been healing the hurts he has from his childhood and from his past relationships, he is becoming more distant with me.
I’ve realized that I need to change what I am doing toward H, because what I was doing no longer seems to be working. In the meantime, I have been using my time to GAL and do things for myself: reconnecting with friends and deepening our friendships (much deeper than they had previously been, as I am more in touch with my inner feelings and more comfortable with expressing them); doing things that are pampering to me, such as going out for massages, eating out at restaurants, and doing little day trips with girlfriends; trying to learn to be OK with being alone and just having myself for company; taking a vacation with my cousin (I’ve previously only vacationed with H) and then going to NYC afterward for a few days on my own to visit extended family and to catch some musicals by myself that I’d been wanting to see; and, most recently, attending a 3-day certification class for Kickboxing, so I can become an instructor, an idea I’ve been tossing around for awhile now. I also began IC with a new therapist and have started attending a Phobia and Panic Group to address a phobia that I have been dealing with for as long as I can remember, that at times affects my everyday life (I’m afraid of loud noises, particularly balloons and fireworks, and avoid some events if I have to encounter either, such as friends’ kids’ birthday parties). I’ve been seeing H 1-2 times a week for various reasons (either socially or for logistical reasons, i.e., getting something from his place), and he has commented how different I am so I know he is aware of my positive changes. These changes are so helpful to me, as they do make me feel so much better about myself and help me deal with the pain and grief.
H has changed drastically as well, suddenly becoming super outdoorsy, and getting into hiking, something he had never, ever been into before. He’s also started taking salsa lessons (again, really out of character), and almost seems to be shunning the things he had previously been so into (photography, eating out, traveling). His LF is very into hiking and outdoorsy things, and has encouraged him to go to salsa lessons. I’ve been trying to be supportive and encouraging of these changes, even though they take me so by surprise. H has also realized that while we were in MC, he kept saying he wanted more of a “spark/connection,” and while he concedes that that’s improved over the last year, he’s now realized he wants more of a “romantic spark.” While he feels that we had a bit of it before (on a scale of 1-10, he says we hit a 7 at our peak), he feels we are not right for one another because he couldn’t sustain it. He says we generally average a 5-6, but at our lowest point (when we were trying to get PG), we went down to a 1. He says he wants to be with someone with whom he can hit a 9 (saying it’s okay if it fluctuates between a 5-9) and feels in his gut that he will be able to find someone that meets that. H says that with me and his last two girlfriends, he was only able to get up to a 7, but that he’s had this gut feeling that he could have hit a 9 with two people in his life. One of them was this girl he had a crush on in 9th grade, who also liked him back, but who he never dated because his parents were so controlling and he felt like he couldn’t leave his house to do anything social. He cites not dating her as a traumatic event in his life. She had shoulder-length dirty blond hair, and now he has determined that that is “his type.” He laments the fact that he has never dated his type. (I’m Asian, and his last two girlfriends are as well.) The only other person he has had this gut instinct about is one of his current employees (he is her boss), and, surprise, surprise, she has shoulder-length dirty blond hair. I feel bad to sound so judgmental about this piece, but it just sounds ridiculous to me. I realize that the whole 1-10 scale is weird, but this is how it’s easiest for us to both understand it.
Anyway, I can write more later, but I just wanted to get this out there for now. I am off to his place to get the remainder of my things. I am planning to stop contacting him after this, unless he contacts me, though I think the chances of him contacting me at all are slim to none, knowing how he is. However, as I was literally JUST writing this, he texted me that he was going to go to the movies after I get my things and asked if I wanted to go along. I already have plans, but that was interesting because it’s the first time he’s initiated us getting together since I moved out.
I guess I haven’t stated it yet, as I felt it should be obvious, but I am hoping that my H and I will reconcile. I am trying hard to detach, use my gift of time wisely, and be patient, but as you all know, it is so difficult. I’d love to hear any input you all have. Also, in my darkest moments, this board has helped me tremendously. Just reading about everyone’s stories and hearing the encouragement has dragged me out of bed when I least felt like getting up and facing the world. I don’t know any of you, but I am really grateful for you all.
Wow, jacket, our situations are similar. You've been facing all this for so long. It seems like you're handling this all quite well and DB well. Congratulate yourself on that because it's not easy, as we've all learned.
I'm not a vet and can't claim profound insight into your situation but when someone is looking for a romantic spark and feeling unfulfilled in that area, they seek it. I say this because I'm concerned about his friend with whom he is hiking and taking salsa lessons. IMO, you don't take salsa lessons with a female buddy. Then there's his longing for the girl from 9th grade. He's looking to fill some holes in his life. I'm hoping he hasn't strayed officially but to me he's on the cusp of that.
I'll let a vet weigh in because, like my h, your h seems resigned to leaving no matter what changes. It's indicative of a lot of pain, I believe, but some of that pain you had nothing to do with.
((((())))))). Hang in there.
Thanks, Ss. I drew a lot of parallels from reading your story as well.
As for the salsa lessons, I don't think he's actually taking them with her. In fact, he and I actually went to a salsa class together once. He and LF just go hiking together and hang out 1-2 times during the week. She was the one who encouraged him to go do it, though, when he told her that he'd always wanted to. They both insist their relationship is just platonic, and I believe them. H and I have had extensive conversations on this topic, which are too long to list here. (I've never met her, though.) My main issue with her is that I believe H has simply transferred his codependency issues from me to her, even if it is just a platonic relationship. I know it's not the DB way, but because they started hanging out before I had moved out, and because we had both agreed that neither of us would date other people until I had officially moved out, I told him that I would have a huge problem with it if he ever started dating or hooked up with her, even AFTER I have moved out. He assured me that that wouldn't be a problem because he is not attracted to her at all (fortunately she's not a dirty blonde) and based on other things he's told me about her (because before I moved out he was still being pretty open about things), I really do believe that he wouldn't date her because there are a lot of things about her that are deal-breakers in his book. She's also moving either in September or November (she's a traveling physical therapist) and only stays in locations for 3-6 months, which is why she never wants to date anyone she meets, my H included.
When I saw him on Sunday, I purposely only went by for about an hour. I was cheerful and kept a PMA, then left promptly when I said I would.
When I declined his movie invitation, I simply said I already had plans. I did ask what movie he was seeing, and it's a movie I've been wanting to see. I said, "Rain check on the movie? Another day? Or are you going to go tonight anyway? If so, that's fine, too." I hope that wasn't pursuing too much.
I went and had dinner with my friend that night, and he texted while I was there, saying that he ended up going to salsa instead, but that he'd run into a friend of mine, whom he's only met once before. I told him that my friend I was having dinner with and I said hi, since we both went to grad school with her. He texted back with, "Oh, you're with Shirley?" I may be mind-reading here, but I feel like since I've been giving him less information, he's been a tiny bit more curious, or trying to see exactly what I'm up to. I also realized that he's paying attention to my check-ins on Facebook, because he'll reference them in conversation.
So my goal now is to really go dark. No more texting him randomly, or trying to get together, or posting on Facebook. I'll see if I get any sort of response. In the meantime, I have kickboxing tonight (I'm practicing teaching the class! Eek!) and dinner with my parents. I need to figure out some sort of GAL activity for tomorrow night, then I have C and dinner with a friend on Thursday. Am thinking I'll use a GC for a massage on Friday. Saturday I have tentative plans with a friend to go up to wine country for some good grubs.
Other suggestions for me with regards to H or with GAL?
I think perhaps your rain check stuff about the movie was maybe a little strong. Maybe just saying, " I have plans tonight but I'd love to see a movie with you another time." Would have buttoned it up nicely while still being mysterious.
It's clear he's curious about what you're up to. Mystery does amazing things. I'm not so good at that right now but I'm also pretty sure h tracks my phone if he's super curious. Not sure what to do about that.
I need to be better about a GAL, too. I'm desperate for a job and I've applied for everything from Sephora to public sector to admin positions at a university. I need something to occupy my brain besides all this "will he come back" stuff.
So, ideas about GAL:
Workout daily-you seem to have this down
Take a class (photography, philosophy, cooking)
Join a book club
Volunteer
Man, that's all I got right now. I'm no help in this area. I'm struggling big time in the detach/GAL departments.
Good luck with the job hunt, Ss!
I was planning to take a cooking class this fall and I've been invited to join a book club, too. Seems we're totally thinking along the same lines here.
I was doing well on Sunday and yesterday, but now I can tell I'm becoming super paranoid again. He's usually on Facebook all the time now, since he and his LF/BFF communicate through FB messenger, but now I can see he hasn't signed on for 15 hours. It makes me think he must have taken the day off and is cavorting around with her. I know that's totally irrational and I have absolutely no proof or any indication that that's the case, but that's where my mind goes.
How do I stop from spiraling down like this? There are days where I feel fabulous and like I'm making progress, and then WHAM! it hits me like this.
Jacket
Sounds like you are definitely doing things very well and actually getting some positive results. I am going to steal some of these tricks from you and try to apply them to my own sitch ... keep at it and good luck!!
Thanks, Caliguy. I don't feel very successful a lot of times, but I appreciate the compliment. I've been reading up on your situation, too, and though I don't have any advice, I'm wishing you good luck as well.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to deal with the people who are pushing you super hard to "just move on"? I've been very patient with people who are pressuring me so hard in this direction and mostly just let it roll off of me. But it's frustrating to have to keep explaining yourself. Plus, people seem to think that if I would just make the decision to move on, then I'll magically not be sad anymore or something! Also, most of these people have never been married or are still married and have never been divorced. They feel like it's been a long time, and it's time for me to go on with my life. I have to point out to them that I've only been physically separated from H for a month, and one of the weeks in July I saw him often because his sister and her two kids were in town and we both wanted his niece and nephew to be able to spend time with us together. Also, my friends and family feel like I'm spending too much time focusing on H, whereas I feel like I have been going out and doing a lot of things for myself. Gah! Sorry, just frustrated and venting.
I signed up for my 6th DB coaching session. It's this Friday. I also have IC on Thursday. Thank goodness.
Jacket, I'm sorry you're here but I'm glad you found us (if that makes any sense!). I am new here as well and it looks like we have a similar timeline/situation. It sounds like you're doing really well with detaching and GAL -- good for you!
I am fortunate that I don't really have anyone pressuring me to move on, but I do have a few friends who are concerned that my H is "stringing me along" and that I'm not being assertive enough in terms of demanding a timeline for trying to fix our R. The way that I've explained it to them is this: When I married my H, I pledged my loyalty to him. As long as I have hope for my M, I can't give up on my H. I also don't think that I should engage in conduct that I know is going to drive him further away (i.e., making demands). If more time passes, or if circumstances change, then I may be released from my vow, but for now, I feel called to be patient and wait to see if we can repair our M.
Jacket... I have the people who want me to move on and I discovered something about that
These people are on one hand and they are the ones closest to me, and know most of whats going on .... FROM MY PERSPECTIVE ... they only hear my bitches .. gripes .. my pain .. my hurts ... they have never experienced the good things, the little things of why I love her, because we generally dont sit around talking about how blissful we are ... if things are good we are happy and usually there to lend a ear to them .. when we are hurt .. we share it giving that person only the bad side of our WAS ... not entirely fair to the R or the WAS ... so keep that in mind, and as I have done .. I let little go except to one friend who understands and does not judge regardless .. if anything he 2x4's me when I need it.
Thanks Cali and Elsa! I really appreciate your insights.
The past week has not been going so great, however, I think I have a plan in place. I talked to my DB Coach this morning and had IC yesterday. I've been working hard on GAL and socializing more with friends and have loaded myself up with activities this weekend and have some of next week squared away too. Having stuff to look forward to definitely helps me maintain a PMA.
Like I think I said in my first post, the things that have been working for the past month in terms of bringing H and me closer together no longer seem to be working. My Coach and decided that I should go dark, so no more initiating social activities with H and even if he were to initiate I am going to decline. When I go to the house to get more of my stuff, I'm going to purposely go during a time when he's not home. H has been treating me sort of as a fallback when he doesn't have anything else going on, so it's time to make him really miss me. My question for everyone is how exactly to decline? Do I simply say I'm busy? I'm assuming I shouldn't just ignore his invitations? Of course, this is presuming he'll even initiate, something he hasn't been really doing in the past month at all.
I only contacted H once this week, to ask him if I could drop by the house when he wasn't home, to collect some of my things. I need to go by another time to get another round of stuff, but I don't want to be contacting him again. It feels like I'm initiating too much then. However, I also don't want to just stop by without prior notice, as I feel that's a little disrespectful, even though technically the place still belongs to me too.
H hasn't initiated any contact, and so far there's no response to my lack of initiation to socialize. I know it's only been a week since I decided to do that, but I feel sorta meh that I haven't heard a peep from him. I also stopped checking in to places on Facebook (I used to do so 1-2 times a week, whenever I would go someplace fun or different). I wanted to do so numerous times this week, though I think it was really because I just wanted to show him that I'm getting out there and doing fine without him thankyouverymuch, but I realized that that's not a good reason to post on FB and I want him to wonder what I'm up to. Going dark is hard, especially when it's clear that detachment is still an area I need to work on. Sigh.
If (and this is a BIG if, based on his lack of response this week, but I want to be prepared for it in case it happens) he asks me to hang out and I decline, what do I say if he then asks what I'm doing instead? Do I answer honestly and completely, as I have been doing, since we agreed to always be honest with one another, even after our separation, or do I just answer vaguely? I don't know if being vague will bring me closer to my H or will push him away further, but I guess full disclosure hasn't been working really either, so it seems like vagueness is the answer.
Thoughts, anyone?
I know I'm coming late to the posts. It's tough when people tell you to "move on." I thought I would share this with you. A friend sent me this:
To all the well-meaning people who think they are doing me a favor by telling me to “move on” and “get a divorce” I say:
Unless you plan to make the same vows as my spouse--stop helping me destroy my marriage. I don’t care how much I try to bring you into my marital arguments—don’t do it.
The only time you're allowed to give input into my marriage is if it's positive.
Why don’t you recognize my immature, self-centered, childish behavior for what it is?
What do you hope to accomplish when you agree with me when I am telling you how much I look forward to destroying my relationship with my spouse? Do we think this makes you a good friend? A better family member?
Have you ever met anyone who needed help when it came to disliking someone?
You may think you are supportive but all I see a gleeful participant helping me trash the person who promised to live with me “until death do we part.”
Is it because my spouse is difficult to live with? Yeah I know. I’m perfect. I’m so perfect I’m trashing my spouse to you. You’re so perfect you are listening. Based on my behavior why do you think I “deserve better?”
Before you actively participate in the destruction of my marriage by telling me to “move on” because I “deserve better” ask yourself this:
Would you be married to this me—as is? When I say “as is” I mean exactly as I am right now. You can’t change a single thing about me. Not my looks. Not my laugh. Not my attitude. Nothing. Not a single thing.
Am I THAT wonderful?
Because this is the person my spouse is married to right now. My spouse sees me as I really am—warts and all. And still loves me—warts and all.
People are challenging. And they are more challenging when you live with them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
If you don’t think you could live with me 100% exactly the way I am without changing a single thing then STOP right where you are. Why are you helping me destroy my marriage? What makes you think I am better off without my spouse--who loves me despite my warts?
Too often we think the people we love are in terrible relationships because we see their pain. We help them wallow in it.
Instead of allowing them to wallow we should remind them they are lucky to have found love. We should help them keep it.
So the next time you are tempted to tell someone to “move on” and “get a divorce” because they “deserve better” stop--remind them about how wonderful their spouse is and ask what you can do to help their marriage succeed. Become their marriage’s biggest advocate.
That’s what friends are really for.
Hi Jacket, sorry you are here but now you have a bunch of terrific new friends who really understand what is going on with you!
As far as what to do if your H asks you to do something and you have to decline, I can't say I am the expert on this but I have done it a few times during my DB adventure, including today.
First of all, it sounds like you are GAL. So you don't have to come up with a lie. If you really are busy, just say nicely "I can't, I'm busy". You don't have to say why and he probably won't ask. But if he does ask, you can say the truth but vague, such as:
"I'm having dinner with friends" (what friends? you can leave out the details)
"I have a meeting"
"I have an appointment"
"I have plans with friends"
etc
All very vague.
My H doesn't usually ask why I can't meet. When he asks to meet I usually just say "I can't do Tuesday. Maybe next week" or something like that, then wait for him to make the follow up move or give myself the option to do so in the future if I want to. If you read my (long) threads you might see that at first I used these vague replies when he would ask to meet, and then he became very curious, almost angry and aggressive saying "are you really THAT busy?" He was hurt that I didn't have time for him. And yes I was really busy, it was not fake. GAL baby!
Good luck with your situation and it sounds like you are doing well.
Hugs, Lisa
I love the just move on answers. It is funny how those who easily divorce want the other people around them to bounce between marriages in the same fashion.
Jacket .. .I have the same issue on the declining portion ... like you my WAW has me currently slated as Plan B ... when the A ( also known as plan A) is not going so well ... I made the mistake as using it as a chance to prove how amazing I am .. did not pan out so well the first time I had the chance.
So now ... I have become more busy .. like Lisa said when you do pull off the GAL you will not need an excuse or lie ... but .. even when you dont.. I will tell you what I did that seemed to turn things. She picked up our S .. and I was all dressed up ... she asked where I was going .. I told her I had made plans ... was the truth and all I told her. Between you and me I made plans to dress up and feel good about myself .. get some dinner and grab a redbox movie (Was going to ask a friend to watch but ended up coming home and doing it solo) ..... GAL for sure ... but while you are still getting used to things .. do the DB fake it till you make it ... it really helped me get there.
We are rooting for you .. you can do this!
Thanks all. Yes, I have been actively working on GAL. I already have plans lined up for Thursday and am trying to find some friends to hang out with the other days this week. I had an awesome weekend - went out for dinner with my cousin on Friday (I just broke the news about BD to her this past week), went mini-golfing with my friend and her friends and then had dinner with them last night, and went shopping with my Mom and baked a pie (for the first time ever!) and had dinner with my friend and some of her friends tonight. I truly had a good time this weekend and felt less concerned about what H was doing. Am I finally learning to detach??
At dinner tonight, my friend said she ran into my H last night at salsa dancing. (He was there by himself FWIW.) She said she told him that she and I had dinner on Thursday night and she told him where we went. He asked what we discussed at dinner and she said, "You know...work stuff," which could not be further from the truth. (She and I work in the same profession, though, as we went to grad school together.) Funny that he wanted to know what we talked about. She said she'll probably see him regularly, as they seem to go to the same salsa dancing class. Hopefully she'll tell him how great I've been doing lately, even though I was trying to practice "going dark" this week. But it's probably good that he has some inkling of what I'm doing and knows that I'm not sitting around pining away for him, right? Not exactly sure about that.
My friend has invited me to come by next week when she has a house guest from Paris staying with her. (She rents out one of her rooms through AirBNB.) She wants me to come eat dinner with them next week since I speak some conversational French, though I am super rusty. Is it wrong to be sort of giddy to be meeting some random Parisian guy?? I have no interest in dating anyone right now other than my H, but I remember someone saying in one of their posts that it's nice to hang out with guys again and practice some fun, harmless flirting.
Flirt it up, girl!
We do seem to have some similarities in our story!
A mutual friend ran into my H at a party a few weeks back and he asked her about me. She said he seemed nervous and really curious about what I had been up to and how I was doing. She didn't really tell him anything and felt it was very weird and inappropriate the way he asked her. I found it funny.
Hugs, Lisa
I better brush up on my French! Aaaah!
I thought it was funny that H wanted to know what my friend and I talked about. That is seriously so nosy!
It is not nosey. He is curious, which means he still has feelings and still cares. When he stops asking...that is when you have to worry.
You seem to be doing a good job and doing the right things. Keep posting and keep it up!
Thanks, Pilot. You're right. I could tell my friend was taken aback by his question, though. "I didn't know what to say, so I just said Speech Stuff!"
I feel like I've even doing a decent job at following DB, but now I feel paralyzed and don't know what to do. Help! H just texted me tonight saying he finished reading the library books I'd let him borrow from me a month ago. He asked if I wanted him to bring them by. He then followed up with, "How are you?" What do I say? I've been NC for 9 days now. Why am I so confused about what to do??
You are confused because you are afraid of making a mistake in your communication. We have all been there, especially after long periods of NC. Remember, NC is about getting your spouse out of a fog. You will not get your M back by staying NC forever.
You can reply something like "I'm great! Thanks for asking"
As for the library books, wth? A month late? Haha, make him pay the fine.
You can just reply 'Can you take the books back to the library? Not sure when I will have time this week'
Remember, he is asking the questions, not you. So it is not pursuing.
The books aren't late actually. They're not due till 8/30 cause I renewed them.
Ok, well, the point is you want to be unavailable. "you can drop them off by the front door tomorrow afternoon. I should be home later in the evening and I will get them then"
Something like that works as well...
You are confused because you are afraid of making a mistake in your communication. We have all been there, especially after long periods of NC. Remember, NC is about getting your spouse out of a fog. You will not get your M back by staying NC forever.
You can reply something like "I'm great! Thanks for asking"
As for the library books, wth? A month late? Haha, make him pay the fine.
You can just reply 'Can you take the books back to the library? Not sure when I will have time this week'
Remember, he is asking the questions, not you. So it is not pursuing.
Thanks for this, Pilot. Yeah, I got what you meant.
Here's what I ended up saying: "I'm great, thanks for asking! Glad you finished the books. I'm not sure when I'll have time this week to receive them. Could you possibly return them to the library? I think ___ would be the closest to you unless you're in ___ sometime."
I think I was friendly and positive enough. I feel a bit sad though because I do miss seeing him and this would have been a perfect reason to without me doing any pursuing. However, I understand that NC is what we both need for awhile. He has no reason to reach out now. What if he just never contacts me again? OK, I know that's totally silly of me to think that, because I still have a bunch of stuff at his place, but that's just where my mind goes.
Hang in there Jacket.
Aside from working on GAL, how have you been doing on any 180s you've identified? Have you had much progress on being the W that only a fool would leave?
Remember, any interactions you have, you want him to come away with good thoughts about you.
So I used to always grill him on what he was doing, especially with his LF. I don't ask about her or what he's doing at all anymore.
I've been working on really listening openly when he's talking to me and to ask questions that show I really want to know, rather than getting defensive or doing what he calls "attacking" him. When we are together, I make sure to give him quality time, and really pay attention to him, whereas I used to get distracted by my phone quite often before. I'm working on addressing my phobias, something I had previously just avoided before, and sometimes it would affect things we could go out and do. (I'm afraid of loud noises, particularly balloons.) I'm also trying to always have a PMA (whoops, I wrote PMS at first, LOL) when I see him, whereas there used to be a lot of getting sad and emotional when we were together.
Hi Jacket, good job on the library books message! Pilot's tips were spot on I think.
Don't worry he will never contact you again. But I get what you are feeling, I have the same kind of thoughts. "If I do NC maybe he will just forget I exist and move on" Well, it is a possibility I guess, but the chances are slim.
Also good that you are working on your 180s. Those are super important for when you are in contact so that you can show how different you are.
Did he reply to your library books text?
Hugs, Lisa
"Ok, I'll return them."
"Thanks!"
"No problem."
One of the other 180s I had done was speaking his LL more, which is acts of service. He had felt unloved for a lot of our marriage because we speak different languages. I made sure to bring him a drink when he was watching TV and did some chores wordlessly because I knew he would appreciate it. When I moved out I cleaned the house thoroughly so he returned home from his camping trip to a spotless place. He has noticed and been very touched by these acts but stated they are "not enough" because he still feels we lack a high enough romantic spark. So how do I continue to do this 180 (acts of service) without seeming like I'm pursuing?
Hi Jacket, I struggle with the LL question myself since how am I supposed to give him Quality Time when I am doing NC? haha.
I guess the trick is that you don't do the LL thing until you see him and then you do it subtly. I'm not too familiar with the acts of service one but I'm thinking you can find ways to do small things for him without seeming too pursuing. But it is a fine line.
At this point you can't do much since you don't want to pursue, but maybe in the future if he asks to spend time with you, you could offer your assistance in some small way. Let's say he is complaining about something he needs to get done, you could offer to help in some physical way.
Or later on if he is wanting to spend time together and asks you to have lunch or dinner you could offer to cook instead.
Maybe when you go by the house to pick up stuff you could find a way to do an act of service? Not clean the house mind you, but something small that makes his life easier?
But at this point I wouldn't offer too much. This is a difficult one.
Hugs, Lisa
Jacket - you sound like you are doing really well with your 180s. Great mix of things to improve you for you as well as your R! You and me are in the same boat with our H not initiating contact. I'm something like 3 months in and we've seen each other 2-3 times (only once to "catch up"; other times he was just picking up stuff or we were at the same party). He's only texted/emailed a couple more times than that.
I do wonder if we need a different strategy - it's hard to show off that "friendly, PMA wife who is not too available because we are out GAL" when H does not initiate contact. I think my H's LL is physical contact…which by definition can't happen when there is NC! But I think LisaB is right - we have to stand back for now and plan on pulling out a little LL when we do get the chance to have contact.
So I just got this email from H today, about making an announcement to our friends and family. Our MC had suggested we send out a joint announcement so that neither of us was throwing each other under the bus.
"Hi,
I hope you're doing well. It seems that we've created some space between us. If this is good for you and what you need, then I fully support that. I am still here if you ever need anything, really. And as I write the last sentence, I am filled with tears because I know it's true.
I think it is time to send out a notice to everybody. I am not sure what you want to say, but here's my version. In the end, I kept it simple. Let me know what your thoughts are and if we can compile a list of people together.
Love always,
H"
Suggestions, anyone? I'm not sure how to respond to this. Do I continue along the NC route?
And here's the letter:
"To our dear friends and family,
Sometimes life takes an unexpected turn, and for us, it means going our separate ways. Yes, we are announcing our divorce. We know it will be quite a surprise to many you and in some ways it is to us as well. Neither of us could have imagined going down this road. We were in couples therapy for over a year, and along the way have learned a great deal about ourselves. We can honestly say that through the process, our lives have been changed forever, and we now feel open to whatever the future holds. Though we are sad to part ways, we are closer and love each other more than ever and remain friends. We want what is best for each other, and in the end that is what matters most.
We hope you can understand and support our decision. Reach out to us should you wish.
We love each and every one of you.
With both our hearts,
Jacket and H
I feel like I've been doing really well lately, and have been positive and focusing on me. In fact, I felt like I was even detaching pretty well, as I had dinner with a mutual friend last night who was talking about some of the things H has been up to lately, and I didn't really feel affected by what I was told.
But reading this today is sending me into a tailspin and just makes me completely hopeless. The fact that he hadn't mentioned this announcement in awhile and still has not presented me with paperwork made me think that maybe he was stepping back and at least stopping from pushing this train off a cliff, but here it is in black and white. I could really use some words of advice right now. I'm sitting here sobbing at my desk at work.
When we had talked about this announcement before, I had told him that I was not comfortable saying that WE had decided to divorce. He agreed that he would say that he was the one asking for the divorce, which obviously is not clearly stated AT ALL.
Also, would you guys say the NC is working in my situation? I mean, I read other people's stories and see how their WAS's are confused and a little upset by the NC, whereas mine reacts with sympathy and says he will do whatever I need to get me through this.
Hi jacket.
I'm a newbie here with similar story to yours. I don't have much advice but just wanted to let you know that I have been following your post and you have inspired me.
Let yourself cry, but then pick yourself up and stay positive!
We are rooting for you!!!
*big hugs*
So I managed to calm down this afternoon and reached out to my sister and two of my friends. They all feel that H wants to hang out but is respecting my decision to distance myself. However, I am worried he thinks I did it because I feel sad being with him (hello, mind reading). I don't want him to think I am sad and pining away at home for him. I might be sad but not pining. How can I show that I am not NOT hanging out with him due to sadness but because I'm GAL and too busy for him? I'd stopped posting on FB because I'd wanted him to wonder what I was up to. So far that seems to be working because he does sort of fish for information from people he runs into who hang out with me. Anyway, I decided the NC thing is working for me because it really does make ME feel better and more sane when I don't see him.
I had dinner with one of our mutual friends last night, and I was in a really good mood, and I know that that will eventually get back to H. Our mutual friend is having dinner with H on Wednesday, and I'm sure our friend, without trying to, will tell him how happy I seemed yesterday. I really have been feeling pretty good, with the exception of when I received the email this afternoon.
So about that email, I am in strong disagreement with what H wants to say to our friends and family. As I said above, we had agreed that he would state that he wants the divorce and that it is not mutual. The way he has it written makes it sound like we have mutually agreed to divorce and that we both think this is what's best for us, which is NOT how I feel. I need to respond to him in a way that makes it very clear that I disagree with how it's written, without making him feel attacked or defensive. I really need help with this. Suggestions, anyone?
Thanks for the support, Alang.
I'm still thinking about how to respond to H, but I think it can wait till tomorrow.
I'm feeling pretty bummed again today. This is one of the 5x/year H and I usually go down to LA to see his family. He's going without me for the first time since we've been engaged and it just makes me sad. He asked me to go down with him when he went in June, even though he'd already asked for a D, and my coach had been optimistic about that. But I wasn't asked along this time. The last I heard he planned to tell his parents this weekend that we are "having problems." Then he plans to tell them about D in about a month.
I do have fun plans for today. My roommate and another friend and I plan to play tourists for the day. We're going to take the ferry into SF, go to the farmers market, shop, and walk along the Embarcadero. Then we're going to bring our produce home and cook, which is a huge 180 for my non-cooking self (something H always had a problem with since he likes to cook). So that should help take my mind off things for a little while. Tomorrow I'm having brunch with my cousin's friend who is going into grad school in my field and wants to pick my brain about it. Then my dad and I are meeting with a lawyer. I decided to meet with one since this is the parent of a kid I work with and when I told her about what H had figured out for our split financially (he wants us to do the paperwork ourselves), she told me I really need someone looking out for me because what he's calculated didn't sound right AT ALL. I know I still want to reconcile but the angry and bitter part of me feels vindicated that he's going to be hit financially a lot harder than he thinks and if this D goes through he actually might not be able to afford to stay in our house.
Hey Jacket,
Sorry things are rough for you right now. Regarding your email, I would NOT send out anything that is not 100% true regarding your thoughts and beliefs. Personally I would not send one period as it is no one else's business. But I can see why you may want to. I would not let him dictate the narrative of how things happened and why. If you cannot agree on content, then just agree not to send one. If he is NOT pushing for the D, why send out an email to everyone you know stating you are getting a D. That just puts more pressure and/or justification for him to move forward with it.
Glad you are GAL and hope it helps calm your mind a bit. Keep at it!!!
Hi Jacket. Pilot said what I was going to say. I don't think now is the time to send out an email like that. I'm not sure how you can get out of it but I would not agree to send it now. If you could just say that it might work "I don't want to send an email at this time"
Like you said if he hasn't filed for D why tell everyone that.
But at the same time you don't want to give him that reason since it might make him think you are encouraging that next move.
Maybe you could also just push it off saying something like "thanks for penning this draft. Let me think about it for a while and get back to you"
Hugs to you, Lisa
Meh, apparently our posts from the last couple of days (before the boards went down) have been deleted. I know people were recommending that I start posting what I'm up to on Facebook again, and I've done just that. I posted a picture of the dinner I helped make on Saturday and got a lot of positive feedback from it. I even got a "like" from H, which is rare. I'm sure he's shocked because cooking is a total 180 for me.
I'm still stressing about this stupid email that H wants to send out to our friends. The version he wrote is too flowery and happy, so I need to rewrite it to take it down a notch. My friends are recommending that I be upfront with him and tell him that it hurt me to read his version of things. However, I feel like he already knows that and telling him so would just be going down another cheeseless tunnel. When I pointed this out to one of my friends (that this would be "more of the same" behavior), she said that going along with this version of the email would be a total 180 for me and really make H think that I've turned a corner and am OK with our impending D. While she's right, I don't think that's the answer either, although DB says to do what's counterintuitive, doesn't it?
Augh. I want to let H know that this version of the email is NOT MY TRUTH, yet am trying to balance that with making it seem like I've moved on and am GAL. I'm irritated as all heck with his version because he's clearly trying to prove to all our friends how hard he tried to make our marriage work and to not have to shoulder any of the blame for walking away and giving up. He's trying to make the decision to D seem mutual.
Jacket....if his version does not fly with you then in no way send it. And be honest and upfront with him. Worst case scenario is you cannot agree on an email to send out and IMO that would be best anyways. I still do not see the NEED to send an email out to the world announcing your D. It is a private thing between you and your H, why does the world need to know details? If you send out an email which does not reflect your true feelings, and then later try to talk to a friend about your M and what you say does not reconcile with your email, it makes you look bad. Just tell your H not to send out an email to everyone. He wants to do it to make himself feel better and more importantly LOOK better to all of your friends. Why should you compromise your feelings, emotions, and thoughts simply for his personal gain?
Thanks, Pilot. I'll deal with this stupid email some more tomorrow or this weekend. I'm too busy GAL right now to dwell on it in my evenings. =P
I went to dinner last night at my friend's house. She has a French guy staying with her (she rents a room out through AirBNB) who talked our ears off. It was a lot of fun and I got to practice my French, which is really rusty! My friend texted me today, saying that the guy was asking about me last night. He wanted to know "why you carry a lot of pain inside...He said you were smiling all the time but he felt your pain and sadness." I had been faking it for awhile, but I'm genuinely feeling better lately and I had a really good time last night. I feel like people who know me really well might pick up that I'm not as happy, but this perfect stranger? I feel like I've been keeping a PMA and now I'm wondering if I still feel tragically sad to people. Any suggestions on how to, I don't know, fake it better??
Well, keep doing what you are doing because it is working for YOU. Do not worry about what others see. It is about you remember. Also, be careful this 'why do you carry a lot of pain' line is not a smooth pick up line. Not saying it is, for all I know the guy is genuine. But i can totally see it as a way 'in' on someone who is feeling vulnerable or lonely.
Thanks, Pilot, you're right. I was just starting to wonder if I'm appearing fake-happy and if people are actually pitying me behind my back or something.
Also, be careful this 'why do you carry a lot of pain' line is not a smooth pick up line.
OK, this seriously had me guffaw out loud, so thank you for that. I'm supposed to get together with my friend and her guest again when he's back in the area on 9/7. I'll be alert for any bad pick-up lines and work on continuing my PMA.
I didnt mean to discourage you or throw a shadow on what could really be a nice guy.
In the mean time, yea, keep that PMA up! And way to go on your GAL
Naw, Pilot, you didn't. My friend told me he's just really empathetic. She said I didn't seem sad to her at all, and she actually KNOWS what's going on with me.
But your "this is not a smooth pick-up line" bit gave me a good hearty laugh.
It made me laugh, too, Pilot. Sometimes men are not so subtle.
Hi Jacket, oh too bad I see many of our previous posts have been deleted. But yes, I say do not send that flowery email. I still say if you want to send something write one that is much shorter and more succinct. "we have decided to split but we hope to remain friends. Hopefully this does not cause discomfort for you, our friends and loved ones"
And I don't think you have to explain to your H that his version is not what you experienced. I would be much more blunt and just say something like "we don't need to tell every detail of the story over this mass email. Let's keep it simple" and if he complains you can just tell him he is free to tell his long version of the story in person to friends and family.
Funny story about the French guy. Sounds like he is projecting. He feels there is something deeper behind your smile and so he says you have pain. Or your friend mentioned something that is going on with you and he is grabbing at that. Keep on flirting, girl!
Hugs, LisaB
So I had to break NC this morning and ask H if he was going to return the library books. He said he was going to return them a week and a half ago, and he still hasn't. They're due tomorrow. So I text and he responds that he will return them today. He then follows it with this: "Have you had time to look at the email? I'd like to send it out."
My immediate knee jerk response is fury. I didn't take your advice, Lisa, and instead stated my truth: "I'm not OK with the version you've drafted. While some of it rings true, the main part of it does not. It does not at all reflect what you and I discussed it was going to say."
H: "I changed what I wanted to say and in the end felt it was best to keep it simple which is just to make the announcement."
Me: "I also think it's too long and contains too many personal details. I don't think it's necessary to state that we went through MC. You had said you were fine with saying that you were the one who wants the divorce and that I do not. The way you have it written makes it sound like we have mutually decided. I don't feel like it was kept simple at all. It's really long. And I'm all for keeping things simple, but the tone of it does not feel true to me at all. The way it reads to me is that you want it to seem like we've mutually decided to divorce. It seems like you still don't want to take ownership over the fact that you are the one asking for it." Yes, I was redundant in my response, but I was and am still angry about it.
H: "I don't think this letter should be us airing out our differences. It should be simply facts. I am fine with making it simpler. It's not beneficial to either of us to start stating he said, she said here. We'll just come off as bitter. I am fine with being the one asking for it."
I am still so angry and cannot think about how to calmly reply. Can anyone help here?
Me: "I agree that we should not be doing he said she said. But it is written in such a flowery and happy, Disney style that feels untrue to me. It feels disingenuous."
H: "Then I'll need your version. I don't think it's flowery or Disney. And yes, I am happy. Sad and very emotional at times, but ultimately doing what I feel is best for me."
I don't know if this has been addressed but what if you compromised and said he can send whatever he wants to his family and a specific list of friends, and you will send whatever you want (or not) to your family and a specific list of friends?
A letter presenting simple facts would sound like the J-Lo and Marc Anthony divorce announcement and would not require that much detail. It's really not helpful for you all to advertise who wants the divorce, especially if you hope to eventually reconcile.
Sorry you're dealing with what looks to me like a really stupid issue, but the sooner you can get it off the table the better off you both will be. As long as this is hanging over your head it's going to be hard to react reasonably to anything else.
Yes, it does feel like a really stupid issue and I just feel stuck in it.
So why engage? Your friends and family will know the truth no matter what he sends out. His matter less.
We just have a bunch of mutual friends. Actually, I guess there's not that many of them, now that I think about it. My friends and family (or at least all of the main ones) already know, so I guess you're right.
Sorry you are stressed. Take a moment to catch your breath and relax. Why the rush to send this email out? Maybe you write your own version in your own words. If nothing else it will highlight the differences better than just stating them
However I am still of the opinion to NOT send out an announcement. No one else's business and can't help long term reconciliation
Yes, your h can send whatever he chooses and quite frankly, people (including your h) will think what they think. Btw, I sent one of these emails out when my xbf and I ended our 7 yr R. It was however, a different ending.
If you MUST send something (and I don't think you need to) suggest, " x and I are no longer together. As you can imagine, this is a difficult time. Thank you for respecting our privacy."
I realize that's very celebrity-ish. However, people will either ask what happened or not. It is factual, brief and true. It's not your job to help whoever reads it feel better.
Take care of yourself. Hang in there! It does get better:-)
Why the rush to send this email out?
In H's mind, this decision was made back in April. He feels like a LOT of time has passed already and that this announcement is overdue.
Thanks for the quick replies, everyone. I really, really appreciate it.
OK, I went and talked to my friend and she pointed out that it does seem classier if we send something out together, like we're committed to staying civil with one another and working on things together. I do agree with that. Here's what I came up with, having modified what H had drafted and making it feel more true:
To our dear friends and family,
Sometimes life takes an unexpected turn, and for us, it means going our separate ways. We know it will be quite a surprise to many you and in some ways it is to us as well. Although we are not on the same page about our impending divorce and are sad to part ways, we remain friends and want what is best for each other. Reach out to us should you wish.
We love each and every one of you.
With both our hearts,
Jacket and H
Does this seem less gooey??
Not to be rude but so what if your H feels it is over due. That by no means translates into you doing something you are not comfortable with. If you are ok with emailing then write your own version in your own words. If you are not ok with emailing then set a boundary and say you prefer not to air your personal business to others.
Best of luck!
I just feel stuck because I did agree way back in April that we could send something out together to let people know, then asked to defer to when I had moved out officially. I feel like I need to honor my word, even though he's not honoring HIS marriage vows. Sorry, I'm not bitter or anything.
Happy Friday, right? Blah.
No quit thinking like that. It is not like you promised something with a clear head. You can simply say you have thought about it and changed your mind. People do it all the time. It has nothing to do with honesty and honoring a commitment
The advice I'm getting from people here on the boards is that it is our business and since I want to R, we shouldn't be making this big announcement about D to people, especially since he hasn't filed. But, my H has said he is DONE and definitely wants to D. This is not merely a S to him. One of the things that pushed him farther away before was that he felt I was not respecting his decision. He felt like by me trying to hide it from people, I was not honoring the fact that he no longer wants to be M and that I was not accepting the inevitable, that we are divorcing.
H feels it would be wrong to just change our status on Facebook without telling our mutual friends about it beforehand. I agree with this actually. It is clear that he wants to change his Facebook status soon and present himself as a single person. Our families know. My friends, who are not connected to him, already know. His friends, who are not connected to me, already know. The only people who don't are our mutual friends. I do agree they should and feel sort of bad that they will be the last to know. What I'm trying to figure out is the best way to tell them. I do see the value in us presenting a united front by sending an email out jointly. It shows our friends that we do not want them to have to choose sides and that we are still friendly with one another. That we are not angry and bitter. It is important, if I do want us to R, that H feel that I feel that as well. By me insisting on NOT sending out this letter, I fear that it makes me seem like I'm engaging in more-of-the-same behavior and that I come off as angry and bitter, which I have been trying really hard these last couple of weeks to disprove.
Do you guys see why part of me wants to send out this stupid email? However, I get what you guys are saying.
Sending it or not sending it isn't going to change anything in a big way.
He's free to send out whatever he wants, if you don't like the way he worded it you can give your suggestions.
I wouldn't choose this as a hill to die on.
He wants to be done with it, let him be done with it.
Labug, thanks for helping me put things in perspective. What do you think of the version I drafted, up above?
I see why. But I see you as trying to justify something you really don't want to do. I mean if your best reason is to keep y'all's Facebook world happy then you really don't have a strong argument for. If they are your close friends then call them.
Not trying to be harsh but trying to help you see this simply does not need to be done. At least not today.
I understand why you want to send the email. I also understand why you want the content of the email to reflect your truth.
While not quite the same, I had a similar issue with how my H wanted to tell our D7 about the S -- specifically, he wanted to tell her that we had decided on the S together. I objected, not because I thought she needed to know that H initiated the separation, but because I didn't want her to be comforted with information that was not true. In the end, we compromised with, "It's no one's fault."
Obviously, what you would say to other adults is different from what you would say to a child. But, if these are mutual friends, and you are sincere in your request that they not choose sides, I don't know that I would want to say in the email that H is the one who initiated the D. That seems like the kind of personal detail that you're trying to avoid by taking out the reference to MC, you know?
Ultimately, regardless of what's said in this joint email, you're going to tell your friends your truth and he's going to tell them his. I'd use neutral language in the email and then share what I wanted to share with people individually.
I see why. But I see you as trying to justify something you really don't want to do. I mean if your best reason is to keep y'all's Facebook world happy then you really don't have a strong argument for. If they are your close friends then call them.
Not trying to be harsh but trying to help you see this simply does not need to be done. At least not today.
Thanks, Pilot. You're not being harsh. I actually do want to let people know. There are some people who are as much his friends as they are mine who need to know, so who calls them, him or me? The nice thing about an email is then we're both letting them know at the same time. I'm not actually objecting to sending one out. I'm objecting to the content of the one he wrote because it feels so far from how I actually feel.
Why do you have to change your FB status? Is that really pressing? I'm not trying to be a smarty. Just asking.
I objected, not because I thought she needed to know that H initiated the separation, but because I didn't want her to be comforted with information that was not true. In the end, we compromised with, "It's no one's fault."
Elsa, thank you for this. You articulated what I have not been able to put into words. I don't want people to be given information that is not true, because I do not want people to feel like they should be pushing us to divorce as if it is what we both want. That is how H's email comes across and what I disagree with so strongly.
But, if these are mutual friends, and you are sincere in your request that they not choose sides, I don't know that I would want to say in the email that H is the one who initiated the D. That seems like the kind of personal detail that you're trying to avoid by taking out the reference to MC, you know?
Ultimately, regardless of what's said in this joint email, you're going to tell your friends your truth and he's going to tell them his. I'd use neutral language in the email and then share what I wanted to share with people individually.
Thank you for this as well. I realize that I am still really angry about the whole thing and I still want him to shoulder the blame for walking away, but I need to let that go and ultimately it does not need to be stated in this email. And you're right, our truths will each come out when we talk to people, assuming they reach out to us. I don't think I will pursue our mutual friends to tell them about the whole thing unless they ask. I've already told all the people who are the most important to me and they are supporting me the way I need to be supported.
Why do you have to change your FB status? Is that really pressing? I'm not trying to be a smarty. Just asking.
I don't have any pressing need to change it. But I can tell H does because he said via text that emailing people jointly would be "more respectful than just changing the status on Facebook." I took this to mean that he's been wanting to change his status but hasn't yet because some of our friends still don't know.
Jacket,
Thanks for your insight. I have t read your entire sitch so I'm just chiming in. I find it interesting that ANYONE thinks changing their R status is urgent. It's feels incredibly narcissistic and attention seeking. And I can say this with experience as my stbxh has chronicled everything on Twitter.
I would let your h take the lead on this. I do understand the mutual friend issue-I do. I also understand the promise of sending it back in April. However, your h made promises too and you were probably in a confused state back then. Sometimes we have to do what's best for ourselves as well. I wouldn't spend much more time on this as it's being made into a bigger issue than what's at the core.
Take care of yourself. You will let go of the anger in your own time. Feel the emotions, work through them and focus you.
I wouldn't spend much more time on this as it's being made into a bigger issue than what's at the core.
This is so true. I feel like I've been spending way too much of my emotions and actual time on this thing. I've gotten virtually nothing done this morning at work.
I am trying to take care of myself. I am actually overbooked this weekend. I've been invited to a BBQ, to go boating, and on a trip to Tahoe. I'm trying to prioritize and fit as much in as possible. I hope everyone here also has fun plans! What are you all doing for the long weekend?
At this point I urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting Coach.
Please call to schedule an appointment today.
303-444-7004
Roberta, I've already had 6 sessions with Denise and have already paid for another 6.
I am so glad that you are speaking to a coach for support during this incredibly difficult time. Thank you for letting me know.
Here's what I sent him to send out to people:
To our dear friends and family,
Sometimes life takes an unexpected turn, and for us, it means going our separate ways. We know it will be quite a surprise to many you and in some ways it is to us as well. Although we are sad to part ways, we remain friends and want what is best for each other. Reach out to us should you wish.
We love each and every one of you.
With both our hearts,
Jacket and H
At this point, I wash my hands of this nonsense. In other news, I began seeing auras and then a migraine hit me. I got sent home from work, at the urging of the Kaiser advice nurse. Wheeeeee!
I'm sorry about your migraine. I've been there. They're terrible and the aura stage is frightening. Take care of yourself.
You're done with that email. Take time away now to take care of and nurture you!
Already in bed with my PJs on. Great start to this 3-day weekend! =P
Good email and feel better. Loving the three day weekend!
Already in bed with my PJs on. Great start to this 3-day weekend! =P
Awesome! There are worse places to be on a Friday evening!
Take care, Jacket. Migraines are no fun.
No response to my email yet. He was so hot to trot about it that I sort of expected an immediate response. I know, I know. No expectations. I'm feeling sad that I'm in bed on a Friday night. I have FOMO (fear of missing out) right now. However, my migraine is pretty much gone. I just have a dull headache.
The stupidity continues. I texted him about the library books again, and he claims he returned them.
Now he's wanting to know why I don't want to include the piece about us attending MC for a year. When I say that I want to keep it simple and that we can tell them that if they reach out, he says that he's going to send out his own letter then.
Then that's his decision. Your h clearly wants to *appear* a certain way. Friends will either inquire or not. Again, you don't owe everyone an explanation of anything.
I would just ignore his comment. He will do as he wishes. Hope you are feeling better today!
Okay Jacket here I go giving (what is probably) terrible advice.
But ignore him. Just ignore him.
It sounds like he is going to write AND send this stupid email no matter what you want.
And, by the way, this email is stupid.
He is going to deliver a narrative about your marriage that no one wants to hear. It's awkward and embarrassing.
Married couples don't issue press releases because no one wants to read them.
No one.
Not you. Not them. No one.
And deep down he knows this. Which is why he wants you to buy into this idiotic idea. So when people question this email he won't take all the blame.
What a wimp.
Stop responding!
Then when people ask about the wording--of this remarkably embarrassing socially awkward email WHICH THEY DO NOT WANT TO RECEIVE--you can say (with conviction) he wrote it.
What is the story you want to tell about this a year from now?
"I helped my husband write an embarrassing, socially awkward email about our separation which people will gossip about for the next 3 decades."
Or
"When my husband decided to write an embarrassing socially awkward email I expressed my objection. But he was determined to go through with it. He is an adult. I do not control his actions. Nor do I want to control his actions. That is not my role. Nor do I want it to be my role."
And one more comment.
When your husband said, "Then I'll need your version. I don't think it's flowery or Disney. And yes, I am happy. Sad and very emotional at times, but ultimately doing what I feel is best for me."
I thought, "This dude is a tool."
I'll bet all the guys who read your post thought the same thing.
You can talk to him--but not about this issue.
If he brings it up say, "I'm not discussing this anymore."
If he's says, "Why?" don't respond.
He knows why.
Then that's his decision. Your h clearly wants to *appear* a certain way. Friends will either inquire or not. Again, you don't owe everyone an explanation of anything.
I would just ignore his comment. He will do as he wishes. Hope you are feeling better today!
Yes.
Let it go.
For most people it will be old news in about a week.
And about telling your truth versus his truth-I'd be very careful about what you share with anyone, family included.
The less you say the better.
WE used to spend a lot of time in Tahoe! Love that place.
Thanks for the input everyone.
Bob, I've recently realized he's a tool as well.
In fact, I'm starting to wonder why I even want to R. I'm starting to just feel super discouraged and feel like I could do a lot better. Unfortunately that's creeping into my interactions with him. I'm tired of being nice and compassionate and understanding. NC, with the exception of this stupid BS, is making me more and more angry and I just want to be done.
Feel free to hit me with the 2x4s. I'm just feeling really frustrated.
I'm back from Lake Tahoe, after a really fun time with my wonderful friend who's been supporting me throughout all the madness from the very beginning. We had an amazing time hiking, going to the beach, winning a little bit of money in the penny slot machines, and listening to an awesome band at dinner. I had a great time! I even got hit on at the casino (that was actually really icky) but it made for a funny story throughout the weekend.
H sent out the freaking email yesterday to 10 people. What was really dumb is that 4 of the people he sent it to already are completely updated on the situation - his sister, our mutual friend who we each see separately every couple of weeks, the best man at our wedding, and his co-worker who helped me move out. He has asked me to send him a list of who I'm going to email and to CC him on it as well. He plans to change his FB status on Friday. Only one person has responded to the email as far as I know, unless others have responded only to him. She was very supportive to both of us.
I had a phone session yesterday with my coach, and even SHE expressed discouragement at my H's attitude. She noted that he seems really checked out and was saddened at his big push at sending out this email. It's hard to be hopeful when even your DB coach seems to think R is not really a possibility. After talking to her, she told me not to bother sending out an email myself unless I really feel like doing so (at this point, there's no one else who I really think I need to tell), so I'm planning to just skip it. She also told me to go ahead and date if I feel like it. When I pointed out that a lot of others on the boards discourage that, she said that that's usually because others' spouses are often on the fence about R, and dating others can further complicate things. In terms of my situation, where I have employed the LRTs and have been doing well with my 180s and GAL, and my H still doesn't seem to give a rats' a$$, she said she doesn't think it'll complicate things. I feel like she's telling me to just go ahead and move on, too. Sigh.
In the meantime, while I feel like I've done a better job at detaching (i.e., I no longer feel the urge to snoop or even wonder what H is up to with other women, even his LF), the incredible anger at the whole situation has settled in. I have been SO ANGRY all week. My dad and my L went through the financial information over the weekend, and our numbers are vastly different than what my H had come up with when he drew up the D papers, which, BTW, I still have not received. I actually felt the urge to just go ahead and file myself, but my L advised me not to, if I still possibly want to R. (I'm not even sure about this anymore.) My DB coach also advised me not to (though it would certainly be a 180 for me), unless I was really ready NOW to go ahead with D. Part of me just wants to so I can rub it in his face that he's not going to be as financially set as he thought he would be when we D. He thought he was just going to waltz off into the sunset with our house, and me owing him a huge amount of money (I have a lot saved up in my retirement account, which he factored into the paperwork). My dad, who is a CPA, and my L, have figured out that if he keeps the house, he will owe me twice as much as he thinks I owe him, because he undervalued our house and also "forgot" to factor in that he is a partner in his firm and made a big profit last year. I am dying to rub this in his face, but instead am controlling myself and just venting here.
We're both invited to a birthday party this Sunday, and I just messaged the hostess to say I won't be there. She was totally understanding (she's the one person who emailed in response to H's email), and I honestly feel relieved. Frankly, I don't think I will be able to be there and be civil let alone smile at my H. I'll let him go and field all the questions about our D. Also, I've been invited that day to go out with my friend and her French guest again. We're supposed to have a picnic. That sounds a lot more fun than hanging out with my H the Tool and all our mutual friends.
Sounds like you had a great trip. Sorry your H had to ruin your coming home. He does sound really detached at the moment. And I know how you must feel like throwing in the towel if even your DB coach is not optimistic. All I can say is keep doing everything you can for yourself and to make yourself a better person.
Hang in there Jacket!
Jacket,
I'm so sorry things feel so hopeless. Hang in there, babe.
I love that you had a great time in Tahoe. What a gorgeous place. I should go back. It's so peaceful there.
I also kind of love that H and his L miscalculated the financial facts of the situation. Can't wait to hear more about that.
We're here for you.
I also kind of love that H and his L miscalculated the financial facts of the situation. Can't wait to hear more about that.
Actually, as far as I know, he doesn't have a L. He definitely did all the paperwork himself. He felt our situation was "simple enough" that it would be easy for us to do it without mediators or lawyers. I mentioned his findings to a L friend of mine (she's the parent of a kid I've seen for speech therapy for the last 2.5 years) and she said, "THAT doesn't sound right AT ALL." I'm grateful I have someone looking out for me.
Hi Jacket, I just wanted to say hello. Sorry your situation seems bleak. I'm glad that you are not sending out that email, and it sounds like your H is being a dummy about it still.
You are doing really great! Keep your chin up and keep on enjoying life. I don't know why but something about the way you write really reminds me of a friend of mine. When I read your thread I see her face.
She went through separation and divorce a few years back. Her H was really checked out. She started GAL and held her head high. Eventually I think he attempted to reconcile but she was over it. Anyway, she is getting married in a few weeks to a guy who is perfect for her. Her exH is still a big unhappy loser. She is much better off without him.
I hope that you keep on feeling good about life and embrace your new adventures. Who knows what the future holds. Let your H enjoy the party where everyone will be asking uncomfortable questions while you enjoy eating some brie and baguettes in the park with your friend and her french guest!
Hugs, LisaB
Thanks for the encouragement, you guys. You're great.
I'm happy to hear about your friend, Lisa. I can only hope things turn out so well for me. Sigh.
I am feeling good about life and embracing adventures. I've got a bunch of fun things planned for this month, too, and am excited about those. It just saddens me that I'm changing so much (for ME and for the better) and it doesn't seem to have any effect on H. In fact, it seems to be pushing him further away. I'm only two months into our actual separation and I feel like my patience is wearing completely thin already. I know it's a marathon, not a sprint, but I've never enjoyed running. =P
I am SO glad you have someone looking out for you, too, Jacket.
Strangely, you remind me of a friend of mine as well.
You said that it saddens me that you're changing so much (for you and for the better) and it doesn't seem to have any effect on H.
A long time I went to an IC and I was discussing my frustration with how I felt like I'd made some significant changes but that H was acting like I was still my old self. This is basically what she said:
"Let's look at it this way. You've been red all along. Red. Red. Red. Going through life being Red. Then one day you make efforts to become more blue. It's not easy but you're doing it. After some time you're even more blue. Eventually, you're very BLUE and are walking through life as if you're blue and no longer red. Things for you are different because of this. However, your husband still sees you and expects to see you as red. He doesn't see you're blue for a looooong time and in some cases, not until you point it out to him. He may see that you're a little bit purple and then after some time more blue and then eventually very blue. By the time he completely realizes you're totally blue, you've been Blue for a really, really long time."
Get it?
You're turning blue... he only sees that you're still red. MWD says NOT to discuss your changes with your spouse. I think this is good advice but man it's HARD when you just want to point out a little that maybe he could see that you're a little bit purple.
Hang in there.
Jacket .... just caught up on your sitch ... and I can completely understand where you are at.
Its a rollercoaster none of us want to be on ... seems the trick is to own the darn rollercoaster, I know for me ... when the WAW realized the $$ was no where near what she thought it would be (through a free mediation session) that started (hindsight here in full effect) a number of actions. Then when I announced I would no longer fund her affair ... it again pushed the issue further, I did not tell her to end the A ... I just informed her it was disrespectful to me, our S, our marriage, our family and even to her parents ( a truth dart )
So I read where He is in a fog, he thinks the D will end him up rich and free ... mine did too, and then they start to realize the Willy Wonka Factory is not all gummy bears and chocolates ... I was at the end of my rope and about to let it go, then things started slowly changing, my GAL, regaining my confidence .. not for the WAS ... for ME. Do these things for you and once you sort yourself out then you can see what YOU want and if you want your WAS in your life, you need to gain the power of your own life and actions. Reading your last few posts (2x4 time) looks like you want him to suffer, rub it in his face ... thats all fine and dandy but does that get you where you need to be, ... probably not ... look at your goals, get yourself right ... then decide if you want to let that rope go or hang on and see what happens.
Either way .. you have many people in your corner ... Good luck.
Reading your last few posts (2x4 time) looks like you want him to suffer, rub it in his face ... thats all fine and dandy but does that get you where you need to be, ... probably not ... look at your goals, get yourself right ... then decide if you want to let that rope go or hang on and see what happens.
That's basically what my DB coach said, too. "In the long run, does that help you or hurt you? You need to do what's best for yourself in the long run." So yes, I know this, which is why I'm not acting on it. But man, just thinking about it makes me feel a whole lot better. =P
I'm trying to figure out what my goal is for this week, in regards to my own self. That's what my coach asked right before we hung up. I'm still trying to figure that out...but I'm leaning toward working on a schedule for getting my kickboxing certification finally over and done with. I'm hoping you all can hold me accountable!
Oh, I can think of few things more empowering than a kick boxing cert. How much more training do you need to get that? We're holding you accountable on your marriage... we would be GREAT at holding you accountable on GAL!!!
You're turning blue... he only sees that you're still red. MWD says NOT to discuss your changes with your spouse. I think this is good advice but man it's HARD when you just want to point out a little that maybe he could see that you're a little bit purple.
I really like this analogy, Ss. Thing is, I know he sees my changes, because he's mentioned that I am totally different. It's just frustrating because he doesn't seem to care about them.
Perhaps he doesn't believe they are lasting? I know that's a big piece of my H's issue. It's great, I'm changing but what will I be like in 6 months? You know?
Jacket, just caught up with your story and what the heck about that email???
Thank you, Bob, for saying it so plainly and so well.
Your H = rewriting the narrative. He's rewritten your history as a couple, now he has to shape the story so he doesn't look bad.
He definitely did all the paperwork himself. He felt our situation was "simple enough" that it would be easy for us to do it without mediators or lawyers.
Another classic line. I heard that, too. Totally incorrect, totally erroneous. And H = totally gobsmacked. Once again, trying to shape the story so it fits his vision.
Oh, I can think of few things more empowering than a kick boxing cert. How much more training do you need to get that? We're holding you accountable on your marriage... we would be GREAT at holding you accountable on GAL!!!
I've already done the 3-day (8 hours/day) certification course. So I have until the beginning of November to video myself teaching a 60-minute kickboxing class to at least 5 participants. It's a choreographed class, with 10 tracks in it. There's a whole page of things they're looking for (form, ability to cue, noting safety tips, etc.) in your video. I have to pass at least 7 of the tracks to get certified; in order to pass a track, you can have no more than 3 errors. My form and ability to memorize the choreography is fine. I just need more practice with actual teaching, meaning using the microphone and everything. I've taught two tracks so far, but never done an entire class. So I just need more practice with it. I need to work out a schedule with the current kickboxing instructors, to leap in and teach a few tracks during their classes. I haven't been taking the initiative to get this done. That changes this week!
Perhaps he doesn't believe they are lasting? I know that's a big piece of my H's issue. It's great, I'm changing but what will I be like in 6 months? You know?
It might be that.
He also has stated that he feels like he was never in love with me the way he "should have been" because we never had the romantic spark he needs. Maybe I should dye my hair dirty blond. (See the third to last paragraph in my original post.) That seems to be the kind of change he needs. *snort*
Jacket, just caught up with your story and what the heck about that email???
Thank you, Bob, for saying it so plainly and so well.
Your H = rewriting the narrative. He's rewritten your history as a couple, now he has to shape the story so he doesn't look bad.
He definitely did all the paperwork himself. He felt our situation was "simple enough" that it would be easy for us to do it without mediators or lawyers.
Another classic line. I heard that, too. Totally incorrect, totally erroneous. And H = totally gobsmacked. Once again, trying to shape the story so it fits his vision.
Yes, Nitty. YES. Thanks for reading up on my sitch.
Maybe I should dye my hair dirty blond. (See the third to last paragraph in my original post.) That seems to be the kind of change he needs. *snort*
Blonde.... *drool*
Haha. you had me at blonde.
Dye away!!!
On a serious note, my W has taken up fitness to the extreme this past year. Im talking spin, kettle bells (spelling?), crossfit, the works. It is like she has become obsessed. I swear she wears fitness clothes 60% of the times i see her. DONT become her!
Blonde.... *drool*
Haha. you had me at blonde.
Dye away!!!
On a serious note, my W has taken up fitness to the extreme this past year. Im talking spin, kettle bells (spelling?), crossfit, the works. It is like she has become obsessed. I swear she wears fitness clothes 60% of the times i see her. DONT become her!
Yeah, so I'm Asian, and I don't want to be one of those Asian women who's pretending to be Caucasian. =P
I might already be like your W, Pilot. I've been really into fitness for the past 6 years or so. I was into Pilates before M, then took up kickboxing, spin, and weight lifting about a year after M. I began working out 5-6 times per week.
One of my H's complaints was that I'm in workout clothes a lot and that I'm really into working out and he felt like he just couldn't relate at all. He felt that I was more interested in working out than in spending time with him. However, he never voiced any of this until after BD, so I never knew his feelings on the matter. I merely saw working out as taking care of myself and it was a fun social thing for me as well because I made many friends at the gym. H complained (but not until right before BD) that I got too muscular. Seriously, I am not, because women only get really muscular if they restrict their diets, and I'm sorry, but I like desserts too much. This came up in one of our MC sessions, and I pushed back. Our C called him on the fact that this was probably just a product of his own insecurities (i.e., he feels weak and unmuscular, and his way of dealing with it was to then accuse me of being too muscular). I feel like this is true. Every complaint he had about me physically was somehow related to something he didn't like about himself physically. Our C finally got him to see that he was really projecting his own insecurities about himself onto me and judging me based on those things.
I work out not because I'm looking for particular results or am obsessed with my body, but because it calms me and makes me happy (hello, endorphins!). I love seeing what I'm physically capable of.
The ironic thing is that now that H and I are S, I am so busy socializing with friends that I only have time to hit the gym 2-3 times per week (I'm down to just kickboxing and ballet/barre classes). So, yes, there is some truth to the fact that I was picking working out over H. However, I know that I would have done things differently if I'd had any idea how much it bothered him. And if it had seemed that he'd wanted to do something in the evenings with me.
It's late and I'm rambling now. I hope that all makes sense.
At what point will this thread lock? Do I need to start a new thread?
Hi Jacket!
Wanted to add my 2 cents about the changes that your H sees but doesn't care about. I don't really know what the situation is with your H and other women, but potential interest in LF or OW might explain some of the situation. For example...He needs to alert friends that you are D so that he can bring LF around without shocking everyone, and that he is really done with the marriage and just wants to move forward with D no matter what you do or say or change.
I'm not trying to upset you and obviously I know nothing about what your H is doing or thinking but just throwing it out there as OW might explain some things.
I bring this up because originally I could not figure out why my WAH was so ready to just walk away! He saw my changes and he didn't give a rat's ass. He himself said there was nothing really wrong with me or our relationship he just felt done and like there was no spark. Came to find out there was OW. Explained a lot about how it went from small M problems to done in 30 seconds flat.
Things did not go as he hoped with OW and now he is backtracking a little. Not that he wants to reconcile but he now notices and appreciates my changes rather than being completely oblivious.
So it is possible that will happen with your H.
Good for you with the kickboxing cert. That sounds super cool!
Hugs, Lisa
Hi Lisa,
Thanks for the input. I actually don't think the issue is with LF or OW. For one thing, he didn't meet LF until a month after he said he was done. At this point, I suppose it could be an EA. What's weird is that that would have really bothered me about a month ago and now I just don't give a crap.
The other reason I don't think it's OW, is because right after he said he was done, his sister, who was super supportive to both of us (and was telling me on the side that she hoped we would R, even though she was not saying this to H), was encouraging him to go out and date. She was pushing him extra hard to sign up for Match.com. Her words to me were, "I love you and I know this isn't what you'd want me to tell him, but I think he needs to go out and date to realize the two of you really do have a connection. Plus if he goes out and dates now, it'll be a disaster, which I think will help your case." When she pushed him to date, H pushed back and insisted he wasn't ready and wouldn't be for a long while. As of July she was still encouraging him to date, and he was still insisting that that wasn't what he wanted.
I think he was pushing really hard for the email and for his status change on FB because of the birthday party this weekend. Like changing your status on FB beforehand is really going to make people at the party be totally accepting and non-inquisitive? I have no idea what he's thinking about this matter, and frankly don't care anymore. I'm just glad I won't be there.
I mean no offense to anyone whose spouse is having an A, as I don't know what it really feels like, so take this with a grain of salt, but I almost feel like it would be easier for me to accept my H walking away if he was involved in an A. It's almost extra insulting that H just wants to walk away without any viable prospect. Like, am I really that sucky that you're willing to just head out, hoping you'll find someone? Plus, then I could see it blowing up in his face and for him to be willing to give our M another shot.
Jacket
P.S. In other news, I plugged a curling iron into the socket in my bathroom, and now the darn thing will not unplug and the socket underneath it won't work anymore either. I wrestled with it for five minutes, and the freaking thing is stuck. *facepalm*