Hi DBers!
Starting a new thread as some things have changed slightly. Here is the old one.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2473357&page=1Summary of the facts: H moved out 1 month ago. Said ILYBNILWY etc etc. Found out later that there was OW/EA at work who was also a friend of mine. PA started the day he moved out I believe...don't know if it continued or not.
So today I called out my H on the OW. I know I know, not supposed to do that. But the time was right and I just calmly stated I heard they were dating. He denied it and was super angry that someone would spread lies about him. (they may not be "dating" but I know for a fact they were sleeping together a few weeks ago at least, and lots of people saw them together)
His reaction was interesting. Very angry and aggressive.
I was calm and said it was none of my business since we are not together.
He said he is not dating her, but he is online dating. He told me he was mad that someone would try to hurt me by telling lies and that he is trying to be a good ex-husband. !!??
He seemed very angry, defensive and aggressive but I remained calm for the most part. And mostly I just agreed with him and didn't let what he said bother me.
We had been trying to arrange a time to meet for drinks (the first time we'd meet or even speak since he moved out) but hadn't found an opportunity. He seemed to feel rejected because when he asked I always said I was too busy, maybe later. His rejection came across as bitter and angry.
I remained calm and said I could meet tomorrow. So that is that. We meet tomorrow.
If any of you have been following my saga I was very very nervous to meet him because I thought he would drop a bomb. Now it doesn't matter that much because I already called him out on it and I think I can handle the stupid things he is bound to say.
He seems to be regretful that he "had to" break up with me. And then angry about being accused of something hurtful he actually did, but lies and says he didn't. But he is talking like he still believes that we should not be together. Like it is hard but hey it is for the best. And he is throwing in my face that he is dating other people...but not the specific one I know he actually did sleep with...
Any words of advice from you vets out there?
I plan to be calm, relaxed and fun tomorrow and keep it superficial. Look pretty and be friendly and happy. I guess if he continues to talk about how he isn't dating the OW I should just pretend to believe him and change the subject?
I'd love some advice about his anger and denial and how he seems convinced that he did the right thing by leaving me... and how I should handle our first meeting.
Thanks in advance! Hugs, Lisa
Hi DBers, I hear crickets here but I will keep writing in case someone has input for me or can get something from my situation.
I met with the WAH last night for the first time since we split. I made some mistakes but overall it went well and I was able to remain calm, happy, confident and relaxed.
The mistakes I made were that I was not mysterious, I did not cut the date short at all and I talked too much.
We had some drinks and talked about what is new in our lives. I sensed from the conversation that my H is confused. He wants his freedom and independence but is now not 100% sure why he split up with me. I think a part of him is considering "dating" me but that he is not sure I would be open to that, or that it is even a good idea. He is looking for a confident and independent woman, and I think he also wants to find independence within himself.
We talked a bit about the relationship and I said that I thought splitting up had been a good decision. (opening the cage) He seemed surprised and confused. I think he feels very guilty and when I seemed happy and fine he was confused.
We had a few drinks and some food at a restaurant and when we were parting he nervously invited me to his new apartment to see it. I should have said "maybe next time" but my curiosity got the better of me. I think his intention was to try to have s3x with me (I would not have) but when we got there he became withdrawn and his body language shut down completely. I remained friendly and relaxed.
Again, he seems quite confused, but acts like he is moving on with his single life because that is just what he has to do.
I'd love some advice! But I'll tell you what I plan to do.
1. not contact him at all
2. continue to GAL/180 (he was curious about my changes)
3. continue to be social/date others (I believe he is dating)
4. be friendly if we see each other but not too friend-zone
5. try to show my independence and confidence however and whenever I can
I'm looking at the situations of others on here that might be similar to mine to see if I can glean any tips.
Have a good day!
hugs, Lisa
Don't forget Sandi's rules. Definitely a big help. Oh, and don't worry about your mistakes. We all do it. Just learn from them the next time you get in a similar situation.
Thanks bashy! I will reread them again!
Help me my DB friends! I am not doing so great.
After our interesting first meeting this week, my H has been being friendly texting and communicating with me quite a bit. I have been staying cool.
Then today I got an email from a mutual female friend that she heard we are D.
H was interested in this woman when we met, but she was dating someone else. Right after that, he and I met and began dating, but there was always a flirtation between them. Eventually we all became good friends, but she and I more so. The flirtation bothered me and I brought it up to him and he denied it and told me I was basically crazy. However, other mutual friends saw it as well and after a long time he finally agreed that it was true that she liked him, but denied he had feelings for her.
Years pass, she and I become closer but he and she don't really stay in close contact. Today I get a message from her that he told her we split up. He is trying to meet up with her. He is telling her we had a friendly break up and that we grew apart and are going in different directions.
This rollercoaster is so awful! His behavior is so disgusting. He is now trying to hook up with ANOTHER of our mutual friends.
I'm not sure what to do! I want to kill him. I want to call him and scream at him. I'm losing it.
It sounds like I am in the friend zone. That is not where I want to be.
DBers please help me.
Hugs,
Lisa
Hey DBers, in case anyone reads this, let me let you know what not to do.
You should follow the DB guidelines. Because guess what? I just showed my ex an emotional, crazy side of me and pushed him further away. I think we were close to possible reconciliation. He was open to spending time together, he was wanting to keep in touch. But I exploded with emotion and scared him away.
Now there is probably no hope. I blew it. So don't do that.
Just my words of wisdom. Have a great day!
Hugs, LisaB
LisaB. I am so sorry. I know just how terrible this must feel right now.
As bad as this feels I'd urge you to not give up just yet. I'm not naive enough to think that sometimes the wrong thing at the wrong time can't create a butterfly effect that changes the tides, however we can't ever predict how others will respond. It's possible this is a set back, and one that even has unforseen positive consequences down the road.
Can you please give us more information about how this went down? What did you say? What was his response? How did it end?
Only you know when it's right to give up hope, but when you're discouraged and heartbroken and mad at yourself and feeling rejected...that's not always the best state of mind to steer your actions and outlook towards the future.
Please take care of yourself tonight and know you are a special person.
Thank you Zues126 for your kind words.
I was doing really well with the DB techniques. GAL, 180s, and I was feeling ok. My H kept contacting me wanting to meet and I was terrified about it. Turns out I guess that instinct was right. I think it brought up too many feelings for me.
We met the first time and generally it went well. I managed to stay positive, calm and seem happy. He seemed cautiously interested.
As I mentioned above, a few days later I discovered that my H was trying to meet up with a mutual female friend, I assumed to flirt ..or more. On top of the OW I just could not handle this and I confronted him about both women over the phone. We had a huge fight and he claimed he had no such intentions with this woman, and mostly denied OW (again). Somehow through the fight we decided we should talk more about the R and how things happened with our split and agreed to meet in person yesterday.
During our long meeting I ranged between dramatic, angry, loving, calm and funny. I was all over the place. He was mystified. I confronted him on the OW and put all my cards out there. I explained how hurt I was by the lies and deception that happened when he left. He seemed sorry that his behavior had hurt me but again, he was not pleased with my erratic mood and accusations. At the end of the meeting I became quite clingy. A huge mistake!
He says he had fallen out of love with me because he no longer admired me, was bored and felt we were too dependent. He said we simply now have different goals in life. My crazy and clingy behavior probably didn't help that. He is also having some sort of identity crisis which is making him want to change everything in his life.
I feel so foolish. I think my DB work had been having a positive effect on him. He seemed very interested in what was going on with me. He also seems sad, lonely, confused. He's trying really hard to GAL but admits to sadness and loneliness. He's trying to date new women and fill the void, and says I am not easy to replace. So why is he trying to replace me?
The only thing I can do is go back to DB square one. But I feel so discouraged and disappointed in myself. I feel I have terrified the squirrel. And I don't know if there is any hope.
Thanks for reading.
Lisa
Hi lisa, I'm so sorry you're in this position, I too have had an attack of the crazies over the past 48 hrs, sometimes the emotions that are swirling around my head are just too much, and I explode. I'm going back to square one with db myself, I'm re reading from the start, I spent most of today flat or in tears, and unfortunately have been around h for most of the day, he seems sympathetic and even made me dinner, but I don't want him to see me like this.
There is always hope if you have hope, that's what I'm telling myself, I believe we can do this, it's just crappy being in it.
tour h sounds like he was starting to thaw, so don't give up, you've backslid a bit, but you can move forward and start fresh tomorrow, big hugs x
watto14 thank you so much! I hate to hear you are having an emotional time but in some way it is good to hear that I am not the only one...
I too am crying and low today but I guess tomorrow might be better.
There are I guess a few possibly good things that came out of this emotional vomiting:
- I needed to get this stuff off my chest and he needed to hear it (even if he can't really hear it)
- he did sit and listen to me for hours so I guess he can't be that turned off to me, if he really was over me he would have said "enough" after only a short time (but possibly mostly guilt)
- I got to refute some of his ideas about why we should be split up, and say how untrue they are (again don't know if he can hear it but maybe)
- I got to hear that he is not happy, he wanted me to know he is sad
- I got to tell him that I wish he had taken "space" as he requested so that we had time to think and try, and not gone straight into D mode
I know all the above are completely against Sandi's rules and DB. But still I feel they had to get out there at some point. I never really made a fuss when he moved out or BD and I think he believed I was fine with all of it. I was not fine and now he knows that. And now maybe I can move on from these details and be cool again. Back to square one.
Read some about detaching and letting go and it helped a bit, maybe it'll help you to see it (again)?
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/* To "let go" does not mean to stop caring; it means I can't do it for someone else.
* To "let go" is not to cut myself off; it's the realization I can't control another.
* To "let go" is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.
* To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another; it's to make the most of myself.
* To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about.
* To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.
* To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
* To "let go" is not to be protective; it's to permit another to face reality.
* To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept.
* To "let go" is not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
* To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody, but to try to become what I dream I can be.
* To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires, but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.
* To "let go" is to not regret the past, but to grow and live for the future.
* To "let go" is to fear less and love myself more.
Hey Lisa sorry. You're having a hard time (me too), but I think there's loads of positives in what you've said. The fact that he listened to you and he admitted he's not happy can only be good for your R? I'm no expert but it sounds to me as if there's a good chance you'll come through this together and be stronger.
Don't be so hard on yourself. And thanks for the letting go post.
Stacey x
Thanks Stacey! Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. And thanks for seeing the positives in my situation.
I had sent H a short friendly text message yesterday lightly apologizing for being a bit crazy angry. I never text him first but I thought I would show that although I got upset I can let it go. He is not responding. Probably that is a bad sign but time will tell more. I am hoping he was able to hear what I had to say and didn't just summarize it as "that crazy lady screamed at me, I'm so glad I am getting rid of her".
Hope everyone is having a good day.
Hugs, Lisa
Just a follow up to say I sent the text, he has not replied, but I will not be pursuing any more no matter what. I feel I have to go back to square one DB and start again no contact, GAL, 180s... It was possibly working before maybe it will work again. Maybe I f-ed up royally or maybe it will work again, who knows.
He's officially moving into his new house today. Maybe that will bring him happy feelings, maybe sad. Maybe both.
Hugs,
Lisa
Lisa,
It sounds like your H was testing the waters with you when he started the friendly texting, etc. after your first meeting. My W did the same. Whether it was testing the waters to see if you were still available to him, or just generally curious as to what has been going on, there is no way to tell. All that matters is that he STILL cared enough to care what you were doing. So that is a good thing.
Yea you might have spooked him, but there is nothing to say he was not going to retreat soon anyways. My W kinda did as well, even though we did not have a fight or argument. Well, we DO have the issue of where the kids are going to be living for school, so that does put a damper. But back to you, I would lay off the questions about OW. Even the mutual friends. Because you cannot know what his real intentions are. Perhaps he is just lonely and wants a familiar voice/face to talk to. Maybe he is looking for an ego boost and is just looking for an old fling he knows will prop him up emotionally. I am guilty of that in my past numerous times when I was at the end of a relationship. All with women I knew would be dead ends.
You are not in an all that terrible position. He is still around, and even if you do end up in the friend zone, it might just be a stepping stone to R.
Keep up the good work.
Hi pilot, thanks for the advice!
You are 100% right, he is checking in with every woman he knows to get some ego boost and a little friendship too. He is also dating online. He is very lonely. It just irritates me that he has to check in with all these women when he wouldn't be lonely if he was with me! Argh! I know, I know.
After our big blow up I feel like I got my anger off my chest. That is good for me. But now I guess he is scared away, at least for now. And I have no idea how to get him unscared except to ignore him. Kinda hard to ignore someone who is also ignoring you haha.
Thanks again for your supportive words pilot. Have a good weekend!
Hugs, LisaB
Lisa, I think that online dating he says he is doing will ultimately help you. I say that because he is going to be comparing every person he looks at to you. And it will be hard for a stranger to measure up. He will go through a ton of rejection as well. His experience will remind him that single life is not going to be a cup of tea. Remember, he is a guy. He is going to have a much harder time at it than a single girl in a bar or online.
Keep the faith
Thanks pilot. He already stated that I am "not easy to replace". His comment irritated me because I don't see why he is trying to replace me when I am right here!?
But thank you for your insight.
I just hope I didn't scare him away permanently with my dramatics. Only time will tell I suppose.
Hugs,
Lisa
Hi DBers,
I had hoped to speak with the WAH today as he was coming to get his last things from the house. He is moving to a new apartment. However, he was not able to come by.
Originally I had planned to be out when he got his stuff, I even had a date! But after our disastrous conversation and his subsequent ignoring me, I thought I needed to see him to show him that I have returned to the calm person he prefers. Like I said above, ignoring someone who is ignoring you is pretty pointless.
I had been planning help load his boxes into the car while calmly apologizing for my emotional rant and telling him that I had accepted the situation and was letting go and moving on. Since I couldn't tell him in person I thought about it and decided to send a short Dobson letter.
So I did, over email. We shall see what effect it has, if any. The letter basically explained that I needed to get some anger and confusion off my chest and now I can let it go. And that I understand that he was dissatisfied with the relationship and needs to find his happiness. It was rather short.
I think I needed an intermediate step to backtrack on the drama of the other day and return to NC, 180, GAL etc which I will now do like mad.
I don't expect to hear a reply from him and I guess I don't really care. Possibly I will get a cold and distant one. But a reply is not at all my goal. It is more about re-establishing my own independence, confidence and calmness. The letter stated that I am doing that, and my next step is to actually DO IT.
Most likely the letter will be seen as just another annoying pursuit by me, but once I follow it with NC it will have more significance.
I feel good about this letter, it is actually giving me a small feeling of control of myself and the situation. I do need to detach. Wish me luck with the NC!
Hugs to all, LisaB
Now you have to follow your words with actions. Personally, I would not have sent the letter, but I understand why you did. Main reason I would not have is it takes away some of the 'mystery' as to why you went NC and what you are doing while NC. And that mystery is an important factor in the NC having an affect on your WAS. But, no rule is set in stone, so best of luck with it!!!
Lisa Dear, my thoughts have always been with you and I am happy that you are finding your strength. The things you've done and said recently to your H is done. Wether they are right or wrong no one knows, but you needed to do it and that is that. There's always a chance he'll bounce back, but that hope you should not cling onto and let it run your life now. Just let it be and detach. Like you said, it's time for you to do like mad nc, 180, gal etc... You've found your plan and path towards happiness now...for yourself. You should realize how far you've come in this journey. You have your dignity. I am happy for you. Stay your course.
Thank you pilot and cq1 for your kind support.
I get that the letter is a little too much and I debated sending it, but after my clingy and dramatic behavior I felt I needed to not only let go within myself, but tell him that I accept the situation as is.
I was really obsessed with why and how everything happened and that was what I got super emotional about. I don't agree with the way he left (being vague, OW) and the reasons he gave for leaving are ridiculous and trivial for the most part. Our conversation the other night was about this, going over and over the things he did and why he did them. Although it is my nature to try to understand why, I realize he doesn't even truly know why and I will probably never really understand. So I have to stop trying and stop analyzing everything to death.
Maybe this is truly the end. I don't know. I feel quite hopeless now. But maybe I needed that so I can detach and move on. If it is indeed hopeless there is no reason for me to keep on banging my head against the wall wondering what happened and how I can change things now. I realize I made many mistakes but I was also a wonderful wife and we were very very happy together. And indeed I am not perfect but I am pretty fantastic for the most part. Anyone would be lucky to be with me. He didn't feel lucky so I guess he left.
Maybe in the future we can be friends, maybe in the future we can try again. I don't know. For now I think I need to give up that hope.
Thanks again for your support, I am sure I will be back soon with more drama...
Hugs, LisaB
Lisa,
I'm no expert by any stretch. I've got buckets of my own issues and make mistakes like 3 times per day.
That said, I think you need to be kind to yourself. I think your situation is not as drastic as you see it. I think there is some hope...your H has reached out. His eyes are open. He's interested, but it seems like he's confused. I'd say instead of continuing to chase the R, just go be awesome.
Stay dim/dark w/ him and do the things that make you happy and show him the woman he fell in love with.
If you've read the 5LL, do you know what his primary love language is? If so, maybe during your limited interactions with him you can subtly try to show him love in those ways. Don't be overt about it, and have no expectations, but leave your interactions with him having put a little more love in his tank.
Hang in there and be patient. I haven't walked far on this journey yet myself, but there are many here that have...trust their guidance and listen to their wisdom.
Be as honest with yourself as you can on here. The more accurate the information you give, the better the vets can help you.
Stay strong!
Hi Joe1981,
Thanks so much for checking in with me and giving me that nice pep talk. I thank you for saying that my situation is not that drastic. I am still being over dramatic aren't I? haha. Well, I guess that is my excitable personality.
I have checked out the 5LL. I would say his top 2 are Quality Time and Physical Touch while mine are probably Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch.
Interestingly the other night when we were fighting I reached out and touched his wrist and he started crying. But maybe it was also what I was saying at that time, I can't recall what that was.
If his primary love language is quality time, how would I have quality connection with him when we are not in a R? I guess I have to think on that.
At this point my only option is to disappear anyway so not much I can do.
He still needs to come by to pick up all his stuff. It might be today, might be another time. Since I need to go dark/NC I guess I should not be here when he comes to get stuff. Any thoughts?
Hugs,
LisaB
My thoughts on how to speak his languages.
When he reaches out and wants to do something, there's the opportunity for quality time. Make it count. I don't mean go over the top or anything. Just be fun and engaging in conversation. Re-read the section on the dialects of quality time and think about how you can speak those subtly. Then make sure you leave him wanting more.
Also, try to not do anything that would make the time not-quality...no blow-ups!
Same w/ physical touch. Nothing obvious. Just brush against him "accidentally," touch his shoulder briefly, etc. Again, nothing too much and nothing obvious, but just enough that it leaves him wanting more.
And try to avoid R talk.
Oh yeah, be there when he gets his stuff. Don't initiate conversation, but if he talks, be fun, energetic and happy. Just like I said above...here's your first chance. Someone once said, maybe MWD, treat the WAS as a friendly neighbor. So do that, and while you help him get his stuff to the car, subtly speak his love languages. He'll notice, so don't ask or say anything about it.
Thanks Joe1981, those are some good tips!
I was thinking not to be here when he comes to get his stuff, as I wasn't here the last two times he came and he became very curious about why I was so busy and why I didn't make time for him. But yeah maybe I need to show my neighborly side after the big blow up.
I really feel like everything has changed. Maybe it is just because I got all my feelings out in the open but I feel somehow better and worse at the same time. I feel I pushed him away but that I am more detached as well. Like now I realize if he doesn't want to be with me he doesn't and there really isn't much I can do about it.
That's crappy but at least I am starting to accept that things might not go my way. My friends and family have been waiting for this day for a while. As you'd expect, they all think he is a jerk and that I should move on. I was holding on to the old H, but the one who is here now is definitely not the same guy. He's going through an identity crisis and making a lot of strange decisions and changes. Some of them are unfortunately for the better (I wish he had made them before), but many are crazy and unreasonable.
Oh well. Thanks for reading and giving me advice.
Hugs, LisaB
You know your situation best. If you've gotten good results by not being there, then that may be the way to go. Just remember when you do interact to show him things that speak his language. Hang in there and hopefully a vet can pop by and give better advice than I can.
Thanks Joe. And it is great to get advice from a guy, I think most of my friends are female so they don't really get how guys think if you know what I mean.
Thanks again for checking in with me, and I think your cupcake idea is a good one!
Lisa, just catching up and I see a lot of similarities (I think at least hehe). I just recently went NC for a while after the last time she backed off so did I. Not sure if my timing was great because she got together with a new OM.
Anyway, a week ago I called her and finally stood up for myself and said this was not okay, she needed to end things with OM because it was disrespectful and I won't stand for that. She wants to get together to talk soon, but all signs point to her continuing with divorce on this talk. She said she would break things off with OM, but Im not sure. She seems to be floundering to get attention from anyone also, but if she just opened her heart to me again things would be different.
I'm very tempted to start showing her some positives from me in her love language since this partially worked before, but after taking the strong stand Im not sure how to go about it. I am beginning to accept things may just be over, until she comes out of the fog, which may be a long long time. You sound like a wonderful person and I think showing some positives to him while remaining firm in your changes and your boundaries seems like a reasonable path to take. We can do this, just stay strong, and keep positive, especially around your H. But remember, you are number 1 in your world right now. Take care of yourself.
Hi asat82, thanks so much for your kind words and I'm sorry that things are not going well with you, but as you say if she is open to attention and affection maybe you can give her some of that while still remaining strong? Good luck!
I just got a response from my H to my "Dobson letter" telling him I let go and accept the situation. His note was very heartfelt, which I did not expect. However, it was not very encouraging.
Basically he admitted that he had been having feelings for other women for some time before our split, and that he feels the end of our relationship was inevitable as he lost his feelings of excitement, desire and that in love spark. He was guilty and sad about these feelings and maybe even in denial, because he had been previously happy with me. But he felt his interest in me dying, and from what he says, now it is completely dead.
He said he is sorry for what happened and hopes someday I understand.
Of course reading his note makes me very sad and hopeless, as he is saying in a calm and loving way that he is 100% done.
Does anyone have advice for me? Should I respond? Is there any hope? What should I do?
All along through the split his complaint has been something along the lines of him losing that exciting spark of being in love with me. Losing that desire to please me, to pursue me. Losing that feeling of being lucky to have me, to respect and admire me. Basically I became the boring wife to him. And although it makes me sad, I can see my role in how that happened.
Any vets or anyone have advice for my situation? I would greatly appreciate it.
Hugs, Lisa
Basically he admitted that he had been having feelings for other women for some time before our split, and that he feels the end of our relationship was inevitable as he lost his feelings of excitement, desire and that in love spark. He was guilty and sad about these feelings and maybe even in denial, because he had been previously happy with me. But he felt his interest in me dying, and from what he says, now it is completely dead.
So what is he doing to do when the excitement fades with the OW? As it is certain to, just like in any relationship. Once the honeymood period is over, and the relationship begins to take work and effort, he will realize the error of his ways. Might be too late by then, but rest assure, it will happen.
i really do not have anything magic to say that will make you feel better other than just give you words of encouragement and support to remember your own worth as an individual.
Best of luck to you!
Thanks pilot, I think things have already pretty much fizzled with the original OW. She and I are a lot alike and I think he was trying to swap me for her, a new and improved and much younger version. But I sense that didn't really pan out.
But I know he is actively looking for other girls. Someone he can feel that spark with.
Here is my plan, maybe anyone who wants to chime in can give me their 2 cents?
- do not pursue (no texting, calling first, only respond, take your time)
- do not be rude but do not be overly friendly, end conversations first
- when in contact, seem like a buddy but not overly enthusiastic (light and friendly to keep communication open)
- GAL like mad
- when possible through social media or mutual friends make it seem like I am doing fantastic, without being too obvious and over the top
Why?
- no pursuing because I need to put distance between us so that he can come toward me
- be friendly so that he doesn't feel I am angry and sad, then he won't be afraid to keep in contact if he wants to
- GAL is good for me and also good for seeming confident, busy and independent
- seeming happy and independent is good for making him curious about me, it worked in the past
He says he is 100% done but I do sense confusion and a lot of sadness under that. He craves that exciting in love feeling that just is hard to get from someone you have been with for several years. I don't know if it is possible to get that back between us. He definitely thinks it is impossible.
Any thoughts on my plan in light of his note?
Thanks in advance! Hugs, LisaB
Just keep doing what you have to do. His assertion that he's done is likely a response to the pressure of the letter. Stick to what you'd decided to do. Remember: believe none of what the day and half of what they do.
Stay strong!
Oh, Lisa. That letter would have been so hard to read. I feel for you. I suspect I'd have received a similar reply from my H (maybe I still will).
I don't think you should respond. Just get out there and GAL. Do what makes you feel happy and confident. You need to do that for YOU. Don't get stuck thinking you were a boring wife. Make yourself feel exciting. You have always come across as upbeat and cheerful in your posts so I am sure you will nail it. And maybe you will convince your H in the process that he wasn't seeing things clearly...
Thanks ganb8te and Joe1981!
I feel rather rejected and hopeless today. But on the other hand after all of this drama I feel slightly more "normal". I am getting a little bit of appetite back, I actually ate 2 meals yesterday! So that must mean I am getting over it a little bit. For the past month I have been eating about 2-3 meals per week and felt nauseated all the time. I kind of got used to that. Saved money on food!
As much as I have lost hope, I think back to a week ago. Maybe we were not going to reunite, but things we definitely on the positive side. He was contacting me almost daily, curious about me and being friendly. So maybe we can get back there if I repeat the DB things I did last time.
He has also admitted sadness and confusion several times. Confusion about what - I do not know but I will grab on to that as possible uncertainty about whether he might want to be with me. Uncertainty is better than nothing, right?
Now what remains is being strong. Not contacting him. Not spying. Hardest things in the world.
Have a great day! Hugs, LisaB
Hang in there. Go have fun or work out or something.
How'd today go? I finally got it right on the gift front. I even think she's excited to brag tomorrow.
Did you do anything fun for you today?
Hang in there.
Hi Joe1981! Congrats on the gift! You did it! Keep up the good work.
Not much happening here on the R front. Haven't heard a peep from him.
Just thinking. What do I want? Can I get what I want? Is there any hope? Am I in denial? Should I listen to him when he says it is over over over... he doesn't love me like that, is done with the M. Or is it possible to change that around?
We broke up once before when we first started dating. A completely different situation from now but when we split he said the same exact thing. I don't feel in love, I don't feel a spark, there is no future together. Was cold and didn't want to talk or work on things.
But I persisted (the break up was my fault, I was treating him badly) and we started casually seeing each other again, dating if you will. After a month or two suddenly his behavior changed. We were a serious couple, he treated me like a princess and he appeared to be back in love 100%. Asked me to move in with him and was very serious about me.
I never knew exactly what happened. I thought that he had just put up this icy front to keep from having feelings and then the ice melted. But yesterday I recalled that around the same time maybe my attitude had changed. I started seeing that we were truly casual and was looking around at potential other guys. I went on a weekend vacation without him. That sort of thing. I don't think I said anything to him but maybe he noticed that slight pulling away.
Doesn't matter now probably but was just thinking about it. He did turn around once from adamantly saying he was not into me. Could it happen again now? No idea.
No matter what there is no reason to contact him nor to not get on with my own life. I am busy GALing and staying NC. Even met a cute guy last night but turns out he was in a relationship already. Oh well.
Hope everyone is having a good one!
Hugs, LisaB
Lisa, it sounds as if NC will be your friend. If he has had the sudden change of heart towards you in the past, it can happen again. He might just need some time to process and realize what he is missing, as he did last time. '
Keep your chin up!
Lisa! We have similar situations! Wow. We should talk. I think your attitude is really positive and you're digging through some poignant stuff. I'm impressed and inspired by your strength, even in moments of perceived weakness.
My h is also "done". It's my fault for sure, I know my role in the sitch. Now I'm trying to GAL like crazy and detach, which is a struggle. Do you struggle with that too?
My h has said he's "confused" as well, which I'm choosing to see as a positive. (Denial?) he's moving out on Saturday and I'm terrified even though the physical space will allow me to really get some serious work done inside myself.
I'm struggling with how to fill his talk through his LLs once he's out into his own place. They are physical touch and words of affirmation. Is it ok to touch the man who is slowly breaking my heart? How do I affirm him without looking painfully obvious? "I can see you're really living alone quite nicely, let me affirm that."
I guess it's pretty obvious why I'm here... Even faced with a grave situation like this one I can't seem to figure out how to show him love the way he wants it. Is it the same for you?
Hi lisa, not much to add, my H has said he's done, to let him go, and he's now actively involved with ow, but you know what, I'm still standing, I own my part in the breakdown of our m. I think you're doing an amazing job, and we will all get through this.
hugs 😉
Hi watto14, Ss06 and pilot, thanks so much for checking in on my story!
Indeed I think NC and PMA and all that are my best friends. And yes, Ss06, I completely struggle with detaching, but I am working on it. I tell myself over and over that you can't control another person and we are all "free" but sometimes it is just words and sometimes I can actually feel and embrace it.
Ss06 I am going to come check in on your thread to talk about the LL etc!
We definitely have some things in common.
There has been a small movement in the past day. I have been completely NC for 4-5 days and last night I got a cold text from H about practical matters. I chose to go with what I said in my letter and just act as if I had moved on, accepted the situation and was no longer upset. So instead of being b!tchy in reply to his message, I was practical and brief but friendly and polite, which lead him to ask how I was and if I was "still mad". I acted breezy and said I was doing great and not mad. He then asked why I was no longer angry to which I replied that I had "let it go".
He then wanted to talk R stuff, asking me what I had thought of his letter. (the letter was about how the R was done and how he recognized and was sorry for his actions) I sure as h#ll didn't want to get into that over text so I just said it was nice he wrote such a thoughtful email.
He probed for more, asking if his letter had changed the way I saw the situation. I said I was sleepy and we'd talk later, and ended the conversation in a friendly way.
Any thoughts on this from you all, my friends?
I felt good about how I handled it. I think he has not been contacting me for the last few days because he was afraid I was furious after our conversation last week.
Not sure what steps to take from here other than more of the same NC, GAL, PMA, 180s.
It's so great to have this forum. My friends IRL are all completely against working on the M and say he is a jerk and don't be polite to him and all that. At this point it is getting a bit difficult to talk to them about it. I understand that, they are just trying to protect me. And sometimes I wonder if I am just in denial and they are right.
If anyone has insights, I'd be happy to hear them!
Hope everyone is having a good one.
Hugs, Lisa B
I just went back and read your post where you described the letter he sent to you. You said you felt like he was saying that he was done -- did he say that explicitly or could you have been mindreading? The fact that he reached out for a reaction to his letter suggests me that he is not done. In my mind, as long as he cares about how you're feeling, the door is open, at least a little bit, even if he doesn't realize it.
I'm even newer at this than you are, though. It is hard because my WAH is a "nice guy" and I wonder sometimes how much of our positive interactions stem from guilt on his part rather than love or a genuine desire to reconcile. But, regardless of the intention, the interaction itself gives me an opportunity to build trust and keeps the door open.
For what it worth, and I'm no expert, I think your h is still trying to get a reaction out of you, and not necessarily in a bad way, if he was truly 'done' ( and boy doesn't that sting!) why would he care how you felt or if you were still mad? I think you handled it beautifully, you were light, breezy and non committal, especially liked the bit about being sleepy so you didn't have to give an answer!
I think keep doing what your doing, use the forum, I completely understand, everyone in my life thinks I'm crazy to want to start m to my h, everyone is saying he's an a#hole buy I still see glimmers of h, underneath it all.
I think you will know where your line in the sand is, I keep getting asked that and I say honestly that I don't know yet but I will know when it's time.
Keep smiling lisa, you've got this
Hi Elsa and watto! Thanks for your replies.
Elsa, he has said he is sure he is done many times, and also in the letter he explicitly said it was over I think as a way to justify feelings for OW. He also said he is confused, though about what I don't know.
I do think he truly feels it is done and I guess I agree anyway. As they say, the old R is over but there is a chance to build a new one. The old one was broken.
Elsa, my H is also a "nice guy". Or was. That does add an element of confusion, doesn't it?
Watto I agree that if he really was over me, why would he 1. take the time to listen to me rant for hours 2. care to send me a letter explaining himself and 3. care what I thought of the letter. After all, I didn't ask what he thought of my letter!
My gut says he doesn't feel that "in love" feeling (his main complaint) and therefore is "done" but that the feeling can come back under the right conditions. My guess is that those conditions are me moving on and being unavailable to him. The classic scenario of wanting what you can't have and the feeling of having plenty of space. I can't rush my moving on but I can make the conditions seem as close to that as possible, I suppose.
I should add that in the same conversation he also asked how my date went the other night...? When he asked me to help him move last week I had replied that I had a date at that time so I couldn't help him (was true). I was very angry at the moment and wanted to be a jerk. He had replied that he also had a date at the same time. Weird.
When he asked how it went I deflected and said "haha do you really want to know?" He said to just tell him if it was good or bad, and I laughed it off and said nothing. What a weird thing. Did he want to tell me all about his date? Did he want to test me? Was it bothering him that I was on a date? Who knows. Weirdness.
This whole thing is confusing. I guess at least the one thing I know I should do is NC and that is basically doing nothing so at least it is easy!
Hugs to all,
Lisa
Lisa I just want to say that you're are handling yourself with dignity and grace at every turn and it's inspiring.m keep it up. This isn't easy but I think every step you're taking is founded in strength and purpose. I
How are you doing that? Is it a fake-it-till-you-make-it mentality are are you feeling like you're coming into your own now? I'd love to hear your internal dialogue when challenging things come up, like h wanting to know what you thought of his letter or asking about your date.
Keep up whatever you're doing. You're lighting my path. I want you to know that.
Thank you!
Hey lisa, you're doing so well, never forget that! my h is a ' nice guy' as well, so I get the confusion your going through, I am learning patience is key, something I'm terrible at.asking about your date imo, is him checking where you're at, have you moved on, I don't think at this point he really wants you to, again why ask if he's truly done, it would be of no matter to him.ill add more later...hope you have a great day
Lisa, I'm glad others finally started chiming in. I was out of useful advice, and was at the point of posting on your thread to try and keep it near the top so there would see it. Glad that worked. Keep being strong.
Hi Ss06, Joe1981 and watto14 - wow that is a lot of numbers!
Thanks so much for your support! I really appreciate it.
I'm breathing a small sigh of relief as my H seems to be back to friendly random texting again.
I am a bit unsure exactly how to handle it.
Do I be friendly in return? Do I be distant? Will he be able to miss me if I respond to his texts in a friendly way?
I am torn between being friendly and being distant. I want to create a bit of mystery but not seem angry. This mystery building is not my thing! So far I try to create mystery by:
- never contacting first
- not replying right away
- ending the conversation first if possible
- being cool and upbeat, always seeming busy and fun and happy
- avoiding "hot topics" with humor
Anyone have tips for seeming independent and mysterious without being mean and cold?
Oh and Ss06 I think the above might answer your question, it is half fake it and half real.
Hope everyone is having a good one!
Hugs, Lisa B
Think you can be friendly and distant? Like be kind, cheerful, maybe even engaging, w/out trying to close the space between you?
Hi Joe, yes, that is what I am trying to do but I wonder if it is a fine line between being friendly and being predictable, boring and always there...
LisaB
I feel the same way when trying to detach. Boy - this doesn't seem like I am doing anything.
I try to leave the room shortly after she comes in to just sit so it doesn't appear that I am waiting or pursuing. I don't know if this seems cold or childish to her.
But we still have conversations about whatever she wants to talk about at the time (usually work or some logistical thing). So I don't know always if I'm detaching enough.
Hi u-turn, yeah detaching is rough, isn't it.
Weekends are the toughest for me. I feel so sad imagining H out with some gorgeous girl enjoying the sunshine and having a grand time. I guess when I know he is at work all day during the week it takes away some of my uncertainty about what he is up to. And on the weekends I just have no idea. Also he rarely contacts me on the weekend. I don't know why.
Feeling low lately, I think because I haven't heard from him in 2-3 days. That always brings sad and uncertain feelings, it seems I rehash the rejection over and over - OW, ILYBNILWY, all the bad stuff just replays in my mind.
Sometimes I think I just have to get some good depressed moments and crying in so that it can pass again.
Trying to stay strong and have the long view.
Hope everyone has a good weekend.
Hugs, Lisa B
I've just been half way up a massive tree/bush in the garden hacking it down to size when I was overcome. It was a good job there was no one around.
I worked myself into a state last night imagining W was having or about to have an EA as she's gone to the football today and as a result I'm now so tired due to lack of sleep and crying up a tree.
Old Dog xx
Hi Old Dog, half way up a tree doesn't sound like a safe place to have a breakdown but I sure can understand. Stay strong!
Last time we talked WAH said that thing have been hard for him, he "is not out just happily having a great time" and he is sad. I try to remember that when I imagine him out happily having a great time.
One thing I guess I don't really get is WHY isn't he happy and having a great time if he is so convinced he doesn't love me and our R is over?
When I dumped boyfriends in the past I wasn't sad for months.. I was fine, felt guilty but that was it! I don't get this. Not that I'm complaining. I want him to be sad, broken, depressed and miserable! As miserable without me as possible!
At the same time I know he struggles with being alone so maybe that is why he is so sad.
Hugs,
LisaB
Lisa,
As for how to respond to his friendly texts, ask yourself what works. When you go NC for a bit, he texts you. When you reply friendly, he backs off again right? I would stay distant for a while. Even if he is texting friendly. He just wants to test to see if you are still around. When he knows you are, he is off again. I am not saying ignore pertinent texts regarding finances, kids, etc. But simple texts that do not NEED a reply, I would just ignore. Make him start to wonder. Because right now, I am sure he does not if you are replying in friendly texts.
Just my opinion...
Thanks pilot! I love it. I will test it out and see if it works. I have tried waiting 12 hours or so to reply, that seems to work pretty well. The thing I want to be careful about is seeming angry, as that makes him think I am soooo in love and upset that I can't handle it. And I think that feeds into his egotistical idea that he doesn't love me but I love him. So I try to be cool, but not seem angry. Does that make sense?
Thanks so much for the tip! I will try it!
Hugs, LisaB
Lisa Dear, remember your boundaries. Be strong with them and yes, I agree with Pilot on the NC technique. Let him chase you! PMA all the way.
Thanks cq1, how are you doing? I've been checking your thread and it sounds like you have a complicated but improving situation! I'm wishing you luck!
I'll experiment with not responding at all to his contact. I think the next time I hear from him will be to come get his things from the house however and I suppose I will need to reply for practical reasons. But maybe not, we shall see.
Thanks for your advice cq and pilot!
Hugs,
Lisa B
Lisa,
When you do have contact with him, that is why it is important to be super happy, friendly, PMA, etc. So he does not think you are being NC out of anger or sadness. So the few times you have to have contact during NC, be that happy chipper self. Then go NC. It will make him wonder. It works!
Thanks pilot. I looked back at our communication over the past month or so. 98% of the time he contacted me first. I replied most of the time, sometimes after many hours, sometimes with one word simple replies like "ok" or "thanks".
You may be right that when I do not respond or when I respond very "distantly" like with one word, it makes him think. It never seemed to have an effect one way or the other on what happened next with the future communication. But I can't see much of a pattern in our communication other than he contacts me first almost all the time. (on purpose on my part as I try to maintain NC)
When we met up last week he did mention something about when you send someone a text and don't hear back right away it makes you anxious and it is like an addiction. He was talking about an old ex girlfriend at the time but I'm not 100% sure he was talking about her, it was vague and a tangent. Maybe he was talking about our text communication, I don't know and I didn't ask at the time.
I will strive to at least be more short/distant in our communication the next few times and see what happens. Thanks so much for the tip guys!
The weekends suck. My imagination runs wild as far as what he is doing and who he is with. I guess a tiny consolation is that he might be thinking the same about me. But I have no idea.
Hugs, Lisa
lol! Just found the WAH's online dating profile by chance. Of course the profile photo is a picture I took at a romantic dinner we had a few months back. But you know it is a good thing when you don't really feel upset and jealous at finding something like this, instead you feel like laughing! It's not a very flattering photo and the profile information is stupid. I wouldn't date that guy!
Feeling better...
Hugs, LisaB
Lisa,
When you do have contact with him, that is why it is important to be super happy, friendly, PMA, etc. So he does not think you are being NC out of anger or sadness. So the few times you have to have contact during NC, be that happy chipper self. Then go NC. It will make him wonder. It works!
Where's the like button on this site?
Haha Old Dog, pilot, you guys are funny!
I'm going to take your advice. My plan is this, let's see how it works. Tomorrow he will likely contact me as he wants to come by my house to pick up some things. Even though this is a logistical thing I am not going to answer as I already told him last week that he could come by. I'm going to see how he reacts. Of course he can still come by, I am not stopping him so it is not a threat to the logistics or anyone's safety haha.
I feel a bit weird playing a game but I want to test out NC/no reply and see what happens.
I read something today that I thought was interesting: "Don't be so predictable! Your purpose is to convince him that events are swirling out of control and may take him in directions he has not anticipated. You would be wise to turn the whole thing upside down"
Thinking about how I can do that... other than start seeing someone new.
Have a great day!
Hugs, Lisa B
I read something today that I thought was interesting: "Don't be so predictable! Your purpose is to convince him that events are swirling out of control and may take him in directions he has not anticipated. You would be wise to turn the whole thing upside down"
Thinking about how I can do that... other than start seeing someone new.
That'll be "do something different" and 180s then.
Thanks Old Dog! I've been doing that, going to keep on doing it!
You know I've been thinking about doing something radical that would shock my wife too.
I've been vegetarian* for 31 years - she used to ask when I'm going to give up this 'fad', but I've even thought of chowing down on a big fat steak. That would give her something to think about.
* that's someone who doesn't eat meat to all you Americans out there ;-)
Haha Old Dog! Vegetarian for 31 years? That would be a funny 180 if you could choke down a juicy steak. But then again she might think you have gone absolutely bonkers!
Woke up last night in the middle of the night and had a thought: Do I even want to get back together? Can I ever trust him again? If so, is it worth the hard work? My gut feeling was no, it is impossible/too much work to trust again. Felt a bit sad and went back to sleep.
This morning while jogging had another random thought: I was the fun, interesting and fabulous one in the relationship. He was boring. Then I became boring too. Maybe I don't want him, I could do much better.
From past experiences I know these thoughts are deadly for the WAS. There comes a time when the LBS gets over the shock of rejection and realizes that they might be better off without the WAS. The tables turn and the LBS becomes the WAS. I wonder if that time is here for me, or if I'm simply having a good, strong day.
A good day is a good day and I am going to embrace it. Hope you all are having a good one too.
Hugs, Lisa B
glad you're feeling good today. Enjoy it!!
Lisa, I have had those thoughts too. I think it's the shock wearing off and our sense of worth re asserting itself. I'm not completely sure I can get over it but I'd like the opportunity to give it an honest try. Occasionally I see glimmers of the guy I married in the remote person who left me and it's worth the effort for that guy.
Old Dog, I'm not a vegetarian but I stopped eating red meat about 10 years ago. Since the separation, I've eaten about a half dozen cheeseburgers. It feels good to do something different, even if I'm the only one who knows about it.
Woke up last night in the middle of the night and had a thought: Do I even want to get back together? Can I ever trust him again? If so, is it worth the hard work? My gut feeling was no, it is impossible/too much work to trust again. Felt a bit sad and went back to sleep.
I have had those thoughts a lot too, especially in the beginning. I've just tried to tell myself that it's not time yet to think about trust. I don't have to trust him right now. That will come later, if at all. For now, I'm trying to work on being trustworthy myself.
That said, I do think it's great that you're recognizing what you have to offer yourself, and seeing that you could be happier without your H, if you choose to let go. I hope you have many strong days to come!
Haha Old Dog! Vegetarian for 31 years? That would be a funny 180 if you could choke down a juicy steak. But then again she might think you have gone absolutely bonkers!
Woke up last night in the middle of the night and had a thought: Do I even want to get back together? Can I ever trust him again? If so, is it worth the hard work? My gut feeling was no, it is impossible/too much work to trust again. Felt a bit sad and went back to sleep.
This morning while jogging had another random thought: I was the fun, interesting and fabulous one in the relationship. He was boring. Then I became boring too. Maybe I don't want him, I could do much better.
From past experiences I know these thoughts are deadly for the WAS. There comes a time when the LBS gets over the shock of rejection and realizes that they might be better off without the WAS. The tables turn and the LBS becomes the WAS. I wonder if that time is here for me, or if I'm simply having a good, strong day.
A good day is a good day and I am going to embrace it. Hope you all are having a good one too.
Hugs, Lisa B
Good for you! Let go of what the future might be and embrace today.
Hi everyone! Thanks for your support today!
What a weird day. Started out all strong and positive and became confusing.
Tried to take the advice of pilot, Old Dog and cq1 and not reply to his texts. But it is hard! He texted me today "hi" and I did not reply. Then a few hours later texted about coming to get his things from my house, as expected. I needed to reply to that since it was logistical, so I did, very short: "yes, that's fine". But apparently when he came to get his things something went wrong (I was not home, on purpose) and he ended up calling and texting a bunch of times. I was out having a good time with friends and did not see the messages until later.
So he didn't pick up his things after all and wants to reschedule again.
I did not reply, I plan to do so tomorrow and tell him to come by when it is convenient for me, not him.
I feel weird about being so short and unfriendly with this. But at the same time, he is not being friendly either. It seems he bases his tone on mine, if I am friendly he is, and if not then he is all business too. Why should I always be the one to be nice first? I am getting quite frustrated and irritated.
Oh db-ers what to do? I am feeling so hopeless and disappointed. He is not the man I thought he was. He has let me down. I realize the things I loved him for were his trustworthiness, his kindness, his caring. And now that those things are shot to hell, what is there to love him for? I don't admire or love this person.
Hugs, Lisa B
Oh crap. DB failure again.
When I got home he started messaging me about coming this week to pick up his things. I replied and told him this week would not work and we got into a texting conversation about that and some other trivial subjects.
I was very frustrated that he keeps planning to come by my house to pick up his things, and yet changes his plans nearly every time. My frustration came across through snippy texts, and he picked up on it and even commented about it, then stopped communicating.
My friends, I am not doing so well with all of this. The H I had for 4 years is gone and I don't know where he went. This new man is somewhat unpredictable and unreadable but he is not the H I had. This new person, I do not like him!
And I do not like how I feel and act around him. Even though I do not like this new arrogant person, I miss the old H and I want him back! And I think all this confusion is affecting my behavior so that I come across as some combination of needy, angry, relaxed and friendly. Quite a mess.
I was trying to take the NC advice of you all. I never reach out to him. But even in responding I seem to be having problems.
I just can't see any hope for his feelings to change. I feel very hopeless and confused. How did this happen and why can't I seem to turn it around? I really felt that there was still a spark of love inside him, why is he still denying it?
Just venting my friends. Hope everyone is having a good day!
Hugs, Lisa B
Lisa, I often feel the same way. I don't particularly like the "new" H, I just want my old life back. But then I realize that not only is that impossible, I don't really want that. Because where I was then led to where I am now. There has to be something new, either with H or with someone else. It's hard and uncomfortable. Wishing you a good day!
Who do you want to be, Lisa?
Answering texts about logistics can be handled in a friendly neighbor kind of way.
caveat: I haven't read your whole thread.
Hi labug! Yes that is true, we just ended up in an argument after the logistics.
My fault, I got irritated about the whole thing and became a bit bitchy. And no, that is not who I want to be! Thanks for the reminder!
rppfl, you are so right. I wasn't happy before either. I don't want that back. Time to focus on the future!
H and I talked over chat today, he apologized for messing up and I apologized for being bitchy. Then we had a nice little chat about other things and made plans to meet for dinner later this week, possibly with some of our mutual friends as well. That will be interesting.
Along the lines of rppfl and labug's points, I have been thinking about what I want for myself and who I want to be in this situation. I am not so sure the true dark/ no contact is good for me. If I stay quiet and only respond in a neighborly or brief fashion, it is just not me. It just sounds bitchy when I do it. My way of talking to the neighbors is super outgoing and friendly. That's my personality.
Maybe neighborly NC is the best way for my H to miss me, but then it seems to leave us in a negative place. He senses I am being distant and maybe he misses me but he also thinks I am angry. Then he starts communicating with me in a guarded, scared and angry way too. That doesn't seem to be helping us on the way to getting back together.
Since DB is about doing what works, I'm going to try something slightly different this week and see where it takes me. If it fails, I will go back to a stronger NC.
This week I am going to try to be a fun, flirty friend. I am going to let my happy personality shine and showcase my 180s, my confidence and my independence in a positive way. I am also not going to pursue in any way. That means no contacting first, not responding right away (or at all), and not offering him help or asking to spend time together. Not talking too much and giving away all the mystery. Basically I want to portray myself as someone cool he would want to go on a date with. Someone open and friendly but not too eager or enthusiastic.
The challenge with this will be maintaining friendliness but not being too eager.
I'll give it a try and see how it goes. So far today it has been working, he is being very open and chatty. If I end up in the friend zone, I guess that is how it is.
I'll keep assessing and see how it is going, and change direction if needed. Wish me luck.
Hugs, Lisa B
Lisa
Reading a bit of your sitch .. and keep in mind I am knee deep in the DB book, the thing I thought about was the fact like you said .. do what works. Butterfly effect, being snippy obviously makes your H return serve the same way ... refuse to get snippy, stay positive. Something I had a hard time with .. and at points still do ... the one thing I think goes unsaid is the fact we all have a good number of years with our WAS and they know exactly what buttons to push .. so I have made a concentrated effort to move/disable those buttons, in my mind I reprogrammed them, if she presses one I just tell myself .... 404 error device not found ... makes me laugh at the nerdiness of it all but does what I need it to do which is return me back to center.
Good luck on your progress!!
I love the 404 error mentality, Caliguy! My struggle is with my immediate reactive response and before I've even thought about it, I've responded and reacted poorly. It feels instinctual but it's not. It's just a terrible habit!!
CaliGuy Ss06 haha 404 error!
I'm not sure that my H knows how to push my buttons. We had such a low conflict relationship! But maybe he does and I don't even realize those are my buttons!
I'm excited to test out my new behavior this week and see how it goes. The hardest thing will be keeping my cool and not being too eager and pursuing, while still remaining upbeat, fun and friendly. I'm imagining him as some guy I just met who am not sure if I like yet.
Hugs, LisaB
have a good number of years with our WAS and they know exactly what buttons to push .. so I have made a concentrated effort to move/disable those buttons, in my mind I reprogrammed them, if she presses one I just tell myself .... 404 error device not found ... makes me laugh at the nerdiness of it all but does what I need it to do which is return me back to center.
!!
This is funny. Although we rarely fight one of my weak spots is a knee jerk reaction to H's razor sharp tongue. Just because he's nasty doesn't mean I have to be. It's an area I need to work on. Love the 404 error.
Maybe neighborly NC is the best way for my H to miss me, but then it seems to leave us in a negative place. He senses I am being distant and maybe he misses me but he also thinks I am angry. Then he starts communicating with me in a guarded, scared and angry way too. That doesn't seem to be helping us on the way to getting back together.
Since DB is about doing what works, I'm going to try something slightly different this week and see where it takes me. If it fails, I will go back to a stronger NC.
I've found that my H responds much better when I am friendly than when I am "cool." I hope your new plan is fruitful this week!
Another +1 for the 404 error. Love it!
Lisa, just saw your comment on Claire's thread. I was wondering... when your former H came begging back for you, why didn't you take him back?
Thanks for answering. I'm in a weird place this afternoon. Sorry for the hijack.
Lisa,There's no right or wrong answer. Only you know your Sitch the best. Do what works. I hope your happy positive persona will shine and knock some sense into your H head!
Hi cq1! Thanks for checking in!
Been thinking about you!
Hi Maybell, that's a great question! When that ex came begging, I was OVER IT. I was devastated when we split but then slowly realized my life was better without him (he had a lot of problems). When he came around I gave myself time to consider and decided that I was just not interested anymore. My mom says when you are done, you are done. I suffered a lot in that R. I guess I was finally done.
This brings up another point I wanted to make
When figuring out how to deal with my WAH I try to think about times when I was in HIS position, when I wanted to get out of a relationship. I think about what the guy could have possibly done differently to make me want him back. The above ex chased me for a long time after we split. He tried to give me the attention, support and affection that he withheld during the R. But I was repelled by it.
What if he just was cool, acted like a friend, didn't cling or beg or promise to change, didn't try to hug and kiss me all the time when I saw him? What would have happened? Who knows but for sure the clinging and the begging did not work. It made me sick. I just wanted to get as far away from him as I could, and this was a guy that I bent over backward for when we were together.
So, tonight I met up with the WAH, and tried to keep the above thoughts in mind. I was trying to give off the vibe of being disinterested rather than clingy and desperate. Unfortunately he acted exactly the same way as I did! What is with this mirroring BS? He was completely detached. He treated me like a coworker that he barely likes. Not rude or mean but just cold and distant. Gave me stern advice on some things I am dealing with (like he was my Dad or something), and looked at me with dead shark eyes.
Overall I held myself together and was not emotional. A few mistakes I made:
- as we left I invited him to a party I was going to afterward, he declined
- I got a little angry/annoyed a few times when he said weird things. One thing he said while telling a story was "have you ever seen my old apartment?" I lived in that apartment! Have I ever seen it? WHAT? It's like he not only cut me out of his future, but also his past????
He made the move to give me brief hugs upon greeting and saying goodbye. I didn't really reciprocate, which is very unlike me.
All in all it was very weird. He seemed totally detached like we were never together, maybe I seemed the same.
He did seem curious about some of my 180s, asking questions about them. And he offered advice and his help with a few things that are going on in my life. He did not need to get involved, so I was surprised and thanked him for the offer. I don't know if I want to take him up on it, as it means I will be a bit reliant on him for a while (not completely independent) and will need to contact him for his help. On the other hand it also means opportunity/excuse to see each other and to let him try to please me by doing something nice to help me. I don't need to decide now, so I will see if he offers again.
The dead shark eyes are what scared me. At first I was super down about the whole encounter, but the more I think about it, the more positive I feel. I wonder if it is just my ego lying to protect myself. But I feel that for the most part I seemed distant and detached, and maybe as he thinks about that he will become curious. And I feel like his detached behavior was an act. But like I said, maybe I am just fooling myself.
He later sent me a message thanking me for dinner, so I guess he also felt weird about the meeting too, as he had already thanked me in person and there was no need for a message. Especially weird because the bizarre cold person I had dinner with would not send a thank you message!
Who knows. Anyone have a good interaction with their S lately?
Hugs, LisaB
404 error, H not found haha
Hi DB friends,
Just another rambling update. The WAH has been friendly messaging again today, offering help with things and being chatty.
Probably he misses me in his life and is hoping to enjoy that close connection and support we had without any commitment or emotions on his part. All the relationship gurus warn against letting your ex "cake eat" and use you to get over the break up. While I get it that you need to maintain distance and pull back, I also wonder if being "friends" is a bad thing? I'm not sure.
If we are in an antagonistic or distant place is that better? Will he really be so upset by that that he suddenly realizes again that I am the love of his life? He hasn't seemed to have this epiphany in 2 months so I'm just not sure!
Well, I am still continuing my experiment with being friendly to see what happens. I think I need to make/revise my list of signs that things are improving so that I can truly monitor what is working.
Also I should add that while I am being friendly I am also not pursuing, not being clingy and not contacting him first. I am trying to convey confidence, independence and that I am happy with my life WITHOUT HIM, while still being open to him in a friendly way. I guess a way to look at it is that I am putting HIM in the friend zone.
As someone said before, there just don't seem to be as many women on here with success stories as men. Can someone point out good ones for us?
Hugs, LisaB
Hi, Lisa,
I'm struggling with the same thing about how my H is acting. He's been saying a LOT that he wants to be closer, he wants to be friends, and I've been telling him that I'm afraid of being hurt again. He says he doesn't want to hurt me either and that he doesn't know what he wants yet.
We have three kids so I hear from him a lot and sometimes the line between communicating for the kids and communicating ABOUT the kids with each other is really blurry.
I know the more I hold him at arms' length the more insistent he seems to be about connecting closely.
25yearsmlc and Train are two women who had success with their H's. T0324 seems to be making a tiny bit of progress and her situation is really, really dire. Train's is very recent and her situation was also extremely dire. But at the end of the day, does it matter? If my situation is the 1% it's still the one I've got to deal with.
Hugs back atcha!
Hang in there Lisa. I think friends is better than enemies. Anything that allows you to keep moving your H's interactions in a positive direction is good. Good feelings after seeing you can't be bad.
I think you're doing great.
Hi Lisa I too have been scouring the boards looking for success stories regarding wahs. I am desperate for inspiration I think my story is one of the worst on here it seems totally bleak. So if my wah wanted to be friends or meet up for a drink I would be overjoyed!
Interesting point you made Lisa about breaking up with an ex. When I broke up with an ex years ago my mind was totally made up and had been for weeks. Nothing he said would have changed my mind , however if he had pretended he didn't care and got on living his life to the full then who knows?
Keep up the good work you are certainly inspiring me to carry on.
Xx
Hi Maybell! Interesting that your H has been saying he wants to be closer but is confused or nervous about it. That's a great step I think. I wish my H would say he wants to be closer and is confused. He just keeps saying that the relationship is dead and over. Also thanks for pointing out the positive female stories.
Thanks for the encouraging words Joe and Stacey!
Went out to a restaurant by myself today for lunch. Was sitting eating and doing some paperwork and a guy started smiling at me and talking to me from his table nearby. Then he came and sat with me and started chatting. I wasn't really attracted to him but he wasn't bad. I have had a few experiences in the past week with decent looking guys hitting on me. I wonder, if these strangers find me attractive, how can my H (who obviously used to find me appealing) be so detached, weird and cold?
Yesterday when we had dinner I noticed he was staring at me when I wasn't looking. I couldn't tell if he was staring like "oh wow you are so amazingly gorgeous" or like "she has even more wrinkles than last time I saw her" or like "she's so ugly, how did I ever find her attractive". But yeah, he was staring at me.
Friendly messaging continues with the H today. Not sure what it means. Maybe nothing, I'm just rolling with it and we will see what tomorrow brings. I've been trying not to answer messages in the evening so that maybe he will wonder if I am out on dates. I know, game playing but hey... if it works...!
Plus, I am actually out being social most of the time!
Hope all of you have a good weekend!
Hugs, Lisa B
Lisa, at our last MC meeting the C said to my H, "She's really, really pretty, doesn't that do ANYTHING for you?"
My H looked at me and I could practically see him hardening himself, and then he said very coldly, "It's not about that."
Ouch!!
But I think it's true. He's been with me 17 years. He's seen me at my best and at my worst. I may have been pretty in that moment, but he knows me better, and it really isn't about that.
Have fun flirting.
He's not staring at you and counting wrinkles or thinking you're ugly. As a guy, I don't think that's why he'd stare. I'd guess either, "wow, she looks stunning!" (And that's a plus, because, duh. Or he's thinking "man, she looks tired/sad/exhausted." In which case he's actually caring about you.
Sorry for long distance mind reading, but I don't see that a guy staring is a bad thing. Especially not if you were just being flirted on earlier that day.
Stick with it! No R talk. Be awesome!
Haha Maybell, sorry to laugh but that is a funny exchange. But at least he basically agreed that you are gorgeous!
Of course it is not all about that, but him knowing you are attractive can't hurt. Imagine if he had responded to the MC "Really? No I don't find her pretty at all."
Thanks Joe for the feedback. Of course he could be thinking anything, I have no idea. But yeah I guess better that he was looking at me instead of at his phone or at the floor.
I'm working on a list of signs that I can look for to see that my DB, 180s etc are working (or not) so that I can monitor and adjust my behaviors. It's a bit difficult though. I can put things like "contacts me regularly" but that could also be friend-zone. I can put things like "tells me I'm incredible and he wants to get back together" but yeah I guess I would notice that huge sign. I need to figure out the key things to look out for that are not just friend behaviors.
Hope everyone is having a nice weekend.
Hugs, Lisa B
I know you don't have kids, but one of my signs has been H liking things I post on Facebook that don't involve the kids. He's done it a couple of times but it's new in the last 6-8 months.
Lisa and Maybell,
I think I will try and offer a litter perspective from a guy's mindset. First, Lisa, your H was staring at you because he was thinking about you. When a guy thinks about a girl who is in front of him, he tends to forget he is staring. Now what he was thinking is unknown, but here is what I do when I am with my W. My W is young, extremely fit, and by all means very good looking. She is the girl in the room other husbands are staring at. But right now I do not see that. I will stare at flaws, and downplay her physical attributes. Why? Because it makes it easier for me to detach from that primitive draw all men feel towards a beautiful woman. Think of it as having a perfectly grilled steak in front of you. Now convince yourself you saw a roach run across it. No matter how great that steak looks, it is easier to push it aside now. Even if there was no roach, you THINK or have convinced yourself there was. It is a defense mechanism.
Lisa and Maybell, you both do not realize it but you do have an ace in the hole by being attractive women. Right now your husbands do not see you the way they did when you first met. Back then you were probably a challenge. You were something they desired to have maybe because they did not have you at the time. People by nature want what they cannot have. As LBS we know this more than anyone. Over time they grew to take you for granted. I know I did with my W. Reminds me of a saying we used to blurt out in my younger days. Show me a beautiful woman, and I will show you a guy who is tired of her. Ok, the real version is a little more vulgar, but you get the point. If you REALLY want to see where your H stands emotionally with you, leave them. By that, I mean really let go, and move on. Even if you have to fake it. You both are getting attention from other men, then go with it. I am not saying take them out to the car and get freaky, but go on a date. Let your H know that another guy is taking you out. Do not be in his face let him know, but casually mention you are going on a date somehow. Then make sure it gets back to him how much fun you had, and you are going on another. Trust me, even if your Hs are 'tired' of you, it will eat at his core. You "belong" to him and he will be damned if another man gets to move in on his 'territory'. Again, men are primitive by nature. If your H has any doubts or reservations about your M, believe me, he will respond. He may be angry, he may be jealous, he may be repenting. I am a fairly decent looking guy who really has never had trouble meeting or dating women. I could walk right into another relationship at this very moment, and probably end up in another M and be happy. And I am about at the point where I am going to be the one to push our D through. I say this so you do not think I am of the mindset 'oh no, if my W leaves I will be alone forever and I will never have anyone as great as her'. But should my 'option' disappear right now (similar to your H affair ending or troubles with it) I would in all honesty have that sense of loneliness and wonder when/if the next one will come along. It is the unknown which gets me. Use that fear or insecurity to your advantage. Right now he knows he can still have you IF he wanted and WHEN he wants. Let him watch you smile and be happy because of another guy. The idea of another guy with her, even if we both moved on, strikes at my very core. And it is not just the physical things. It is the sense of failure of knowing this other guy would be able to do for her what I was not. Many guys tend to think of themselves as Alpha males, and any intrusion by another male into our lives which challenges that, causes a lot of internal struggles within ourselves we want to correct.
Just a thought from my perspective...
Very good, Pilot! Men and women can learn a lot about their spouses when they share this type of information on the board. I wish more men would do it.
Pilot, I hope you will not take this the wrong way, but I love you!
Thanks for that awesome insight! I vow to put it to good use!
Now to just figure out how to make him think I am moving on and going out with other men without straight out saying it or flirting with guys right in front of him.
This reminds me of a quote Ben2010 put on one of his threads about how the guys who seemed to have the most success were the ones who "got a life" and moved on. Not sure if that is true but it was an interesting quote!
Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend! I went to a super fun party and had a blast. Feeling good. Life is full of excitement. Thanks again pilot and my other wonderful DB friends for your continued support!
Hugs, LisaB
Pilot, I hope you will not take this the wrong way, but I love you!
EA
Haha
Great post pilot! Love it!
"Pilot, I hope you will not take this the wrong way, but I love you!"
Yep. Me too.
You DA MAN!!!Thanks for your insight.
I might have a shot yet...
Any thoughts on how to work this with an insecure guy with a serious problem with rejection? He might just say "Oh well. She's out of my league."
---GGG
Pilot, that was great, thanks!!
Hi DBers!
Just checking in, not much to report. Have been feeling quite positive overall in the past few days. WAH has been texting and calling just to ask random questions. I feel like he is coming up with excuses to communicate and offering to help me in small unnecessary ways. I have been trying to remain distant and mysterious without being rude. Basically I don't answer most texts right away, taking several hours to 24 to reply, or not responding at all if it is not important.
But best of all I feel better. My appetite is back, which is both positive and negative since I'd like to lose 10 pounds
and I'm not as obsessed about what the WAH is doing.
Over the last few weeks I realized that I had a lot of gut instinct feelings that something was wrong in the relationship for a few months before BD. I found some journaling I did in January that basically predicted exactly what happened down to every last detail! Scary. At the same time BD was a huge surprise. Odd.
But now I have the gut instinct that he will try to come back. Not now, not tomorrow, but someday. I'm not sure if I will still be around, or if it would work out. I just have this gut feeling that although he says he is done, he is still on the fence and one day will realize he made a mistake. I honestly have no evidence that this is true but my gut instinct is often right. Anyone else have this experience? Or is it just denial?
Hope everyone is having a nice weekend. I'm trying to line up some dates thanks to pilot. haha.
Hugs, LisaB
Hi DBers!
But best of all I feel better. My appetite is back, which is both positive and negative since I'd like to lose 10 pounds
and I'm not as obsessed about what the WAH is doing.
Over the last few weeks I realized that I had a lot of gut instinct feelings that something was wrong in the relationship for a few months before BD. I found some journaling I did in January that basically predicted exactly what happened down to every last detail! Scary. At the same time BD was a huge surprise. Odd.
But now I have the gut instinct that he will try to come back. Not now, not tomorrow, but someday. I'm not sure if I will still be around, or if it would work out. I just have this gut feeling that although he says he is done, he is still on the fence and one day will realize he made a mistake. I honestly have no evidence that this is true but my gut instinct is often right. Anyone else have this experience? Or is it just denial?
Hope everyone is having a nice weekend. I'm trying to line up some dates thanks to pilot. haha.
Hugs, LisaB
What you are experiencing is your confidence coming back. I have experienced this as well recently regarding my W and my situation. I am also fairly certain should my M end up in D, my wife will have regrets. My confidence comes from a history of nearly all my previous gfs tell me they wish we had stayed together. Her family tells her this, our mutual friends tell her this, and I am sure given her actions not matching her words, she has probably at least considered this. I know that even with all my faults, I stack up pretty well against the mob out there.
Getting that confidence back is key for you Lisa, in any relationship. If you do not have that sense of self worth, no one else is going to give it to you. Now get out there and break some hearts...especially the guy you gave a ring to.
Hi Pilot, you are so great! Yeah that is true, my confidence is returning after that nice kick in the pants I got 2 months ago.
Maybe some of you are also experiencing that you feel better than you did before the BD? I needed a kick in the pants, and I even told WAH that. I was stuck in a boring and complacent place. The separation has been good for me, and could have been for us. But I don't think he has used the time in a helpful way since all he could think about was getting away from me and into the pants of his sexy coworker.
He has been calling and texting more today and wants to meet this week to give me some mail he has for me.
I hope I'm not falling into false hopes, but I just don't believe he is as done as he says. His behavior is somewhat contradicting his words. If he were a new guy I would be sure he liked me based on the amount of contact attempts he makes. I'm still playing it cool, not replying to everything. It may just be that cat and mouse game, but I'll do my very best to keep running from the cat as long as I can.
Pilot, I am looking for some hearts to break. All my single girlfriends and I are out prowling together as much as we can. It is fun! Look out guys...
Hugs, LisaB
It is funny how separation actually improves a person if they take the time to work. How the dark times leading up to the WAW/WAH destroys your confidence and self image.
It is great how the process of DB'ing helps build yourself back up again. I can say for myself, even though times are really hard right now, even though my W is so far away and in an EA possibly PA, that I am better then I was before the split.
Taking the opportunity for self improvement is a huge thing. It is the hardest thing in life to have your sense of self split in two, but it can be the best thing int he long run.
So true BigMac. I find that the 180s have helped me to see ways I could grow and change. GAL is no problem, I always have a super busy social life and lots of fun activities. But looking at things WAH criticized or that I didn't like about myself made me really think and want to change. And these changes or potential changes have given me a lot of excitement and confidence. That's why I say I am grateful for the kick in the pants WAH gave me. It made me wake up and see some areas in my life I was not happy with, some of them related to him!
Made a mistake earlier today. I have stopped spying for the most part and it helps so much with feeling better. But today I looked at his FB page and saw a bunch of things that made me feel horrible. Instantly I was no longer the confident person with the positive outlook. I see he has new "friends" who are obviously girls he is dating. And he is happily posting about how he has moved into a new house and that sort of thing. The OW/exOW and the new dates are liking all his posts and photos, and he is liking theirs. I did not need to see all that. It made me sick. (interestingly he is not liking anything I post)
So my DB friends, let that be a lesson to you. Don't spy! It just makes you feel bad. Even when you are feeling good!
Sigh.
Hugs, LisaB
Lisa think about it this way. How many lbh here are acting as if? How many H here are GAL and putting up a front that you know by reading their posts here are completely torn up inside. It is entirely possible what you see on his FB page is a fabrication or an attempt of his to convince himself and others his life is great.
Regardless of what he does do your own thing. Remember you both can walk into the same bar at the same time and he would have to work twice as hard to get half the attention you would.
Go get that attention. If he is the kind of person who posts that stuff on fb he will be the kind of person who will put value on you posting the same. Believe me he does not want to start a tit-for-tat on fb flirting with you because you would blow him out of the water
Delete your FB account. Truth is, you will be too tempted to check up on him via social media if it's available. GET OFF IT ASAP!
Thanks pilot and 2chiquitos.
In a way I know he is just trying to seem cool on facebook, and get attention. Maybe even from me. But it still made me sick to see it.
2chiquitos, I hid his posts a long time ago so I have to actually visit his profile on purpose to see his stuff. I can't delete my social media accounts, basically they are part of my job and I need to have those accounts. Plus if I delete them or him now, everyone will know or suspect why and it is just another way I will look sad, angry, hurt, weak, pathetic, still in love. Better that I can maintain a veneer of being fine and moving on. But I definitely get why a lot of people would do it.
Sadly now I just have to be strong and not look at his page because it will upset me.
Another funny thing, he has been messaging and calling quite a bit in the last several days. He messaged with a few questions and I was too busy to reply. When I finally did reply he didn't respond but I can see that he is online, saw my messages, etc. This may be a huge leap but I feel that he is mad that I have been slow in responding to him and now he is trying to do the same. Of course I don't really care that he is being slow to reply. But it does seem he is trying to play a game now. He did this before when he felt hurt. I find it funny.
In my heart I know he is confused and sad but sometimes it is easy to get caught up in believing the image he is projecting that he is doing great and is happier without me.
Hugs, LisaB