Finding my way - part 2 - DivorceBusting.com

My old thread is here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2466644&page=1

I slightly modified my thread title to reflect the idea that I'm actually finding my way, rather than just trying to find it. Trying isn't good enough - it's important to actually do it and get through this.

Thanks for the votes of confidence, everyone. That moment of awkwardness felt really, really awkward. It was hard not to think that I should step up and make a move since he feels that I haven't been physically intimate with him enough.

Maybell, your point about wanting to be a fixer is right on. I always want to fix things for everyone, but as you say, I can't fix this for him and taking all the blame on myself won't help matters. He needs to figure things out for himself right now. Maybe the time away will be a good start on that.

Just got a text from H. that his flight was cancelled and he can't get another until tomorrow morning. I'm trying to keep the conversation light and validating. I said that I was sorry about the flight, and that it was a pain and that I know he was excited to see family tonight. He said it was annoying but fine, and that he'd stay in a hotel overnight and get something unhealthy for dinner. I told him to enjoy his tasty but unhealthy dinner, and he said he didn't know what that would be but it might depend on where he wound up for the night. I think I'll leave it at that.

Journaling: I'd just left the apartment with a friend for dinner when H. called. I missed the call but called him back. He said he needed help finding a hotel, and I explained that I was out. He said okay, thanks anyway and hung up.

I felt bad because he doesn't know the airport area and I do. I had my friend stop by her place so I could use her computer to look up hotels. I suggested a few options with rooms available over text, and he texted that I should just forget it. I called him to ask if he wanted me to book something since I already had it on the screen, but he said that he'd found a room.

He texted a bit later to thank me for my help. I didn't wind up replying to that, which is probably the only reasonable DBing I pulled off tonight. I felt bad after earlier today and jumped in to help him without thinking about it. I had my friend take me to her place when he seemed annoyed that I was out and couldn't help him. I called when I assumed he was being short with me over text. In short, I'm feeling like I haven't really internalized very much.

I'm home alone now, for the first time in four years, I think. I feel very sad, and very alone, and very scared.

Meghan, I can relate completely to feeling alone and scared. It's normal as your H who is supposed to be there is not you person anymore. I don't mean it as he is the only one who can support you emotionally but at least for me, I felt I lost 3 people (my best friend, my lover and husband) when my H said he wanted a D. It will get better eventually as you get stronger. (Hugs)

Thanks, CSan. I don't think I expected how quiet it would be. I feel like I've lost the same three people, too. I thought I was doing somewhat okay today, but coming home to an empty apartment was a good deal harder than I thought it would be.

I know how you're feeling Meghan. I have my moments too and while I can't give you any advice other than to keep busy, my thoughts are with you.

Thanks, bashy. I'm going to tidy up a bit and see if that gets me a bit closer to sleep.

Journaling: Last night was hard. Getting in late to a quiet apartment with no messages from H. was rough. I shouldn't have expected any after the texting and calls from earlier, but it would have been nice. I was worried about whether he was upset with me and about the texting, but I got some solid sleep anyway, which helped.

I'm home alone today, and trying to figure out what to do with myself. If nothing else I have some cleaning and laundry to do and I should clean the fridge before I head to my parents'.

I was going to wash my bedding, but I'm wondering if I should do his, too. H. would normally do the laundry, and I don't want to seem like I'm trying to hard to give him a good welcome home by doing his, but I also don't want to seem like a jerk by doing mine and not his, particularly when he'd usually do my laundry with his.

Thoughts?

My thoughts? You're overthinking and you spend a lot of time in his head.

You're creating a bunch of stories about what he does and thinks that you won't know are true unless he tells you. These stories are causing you a lot of distress. Why do you think you do that? How does that help you?

I asked about your previous emotionally abusive R. How did that end, what did you do to help yourself when it ended?

Have you read Codependent No More?

Quote:

Overall, he feels like the last four years have been all about his sacrifices � moving here, no sex, no work, no friends, listening to my issues, taking care of me, taking on extra housework, and changing himself to meet my needs, and he�s deeply unhappy and not sure if he can get over the resentment. From my end, it feels like he blames me for everything � the sex, certainly, but also being here, having no friends or job, and generally putting his life on hold.

How much of this can you take responsibility for? He asked you to marry him the day he lost his job and found he couldn't get benefits. I assume he knew where you lived or would be living.

You don't have young children who would make it more difficult to get out and meet people.

Did he have friends where he lived previous?

I think Hopeful Still gives good advice, work on you, figure you out and all the rest will fall into place.

And today, do something for you!

^^^^^ What labug said.

Try and spend less time worrying about what he is doing, and spend more time on yourself. You have an opportunity while he is gone to have some good uninterrupted GAL time.

If you find yourself stuck dwelling on him, one thing that helped me in the early stages before I was able to detach was I spent a lot of time reading other people's stories here. Maybe find some older threads and read them from start to finish. One, it helps get your mind off of YOUR situation. Two, a lot of times you find people in a LOT worse shape than you are, and when you do, and their situation turns out well, it gives you hope. Last, you might learn something on what to do or not to do.

Best of luck!

Just caught up on your posts from when you your H left for his trip. I think you did a fantastic job there Meghan.

Originally Posted By: labug

My thoughts? You're overthinking and you spend a lot of time in his head.

You're creating a bunch of stories about what he does and thinks that you won't know are true unless he tells you. These stories are causing you a lot of distress. Why do you think you do that? How does that help you?

I am absolutely doing this. It's gotten to the point of near obsession, I think. I'm aware of it when it's happening, but it's hard to stop. This is pretty usual for the kind of anxiety that I have, but it's more extreme now than it usually is. I think I do it because it lets me feel like I'm making an effort to control the uncontrollable. Or, that it feels like I'm doing something, even if it's something futile.

Originally Posted By: labug

I asked about your previous emotionally abusive R. How did that end, what did you do to help yourself when it ended?

Have you read Codependent No More?

There was a year long overlap between H. and the abusive ex. I broke up with the ex over email at a point when H. was about ready to throw in the towel on our relationship. I didn't feel like I could face him without getting argued back into the relationship again - it had happened once or twice already at that point.

I can't say I did much of anything to help myself when it ended. I think I was still in counseling, but I'm not sure that we ever dealt with it specifically. I mostly just moved on with my life.

I wonder now if I took a lot more away from that relationship than I though. I've spent years avoiding upsetting H., even for fairly small things that I shouldn't be afraid of at all. I also carry a lot of guilt that he had to wait for me for a year that could be playing into this as well.

Originally Posted By: labug

Quote:

Overall, he feels like the last four years have been all about his sacrifices � moving here, no sex, no work, no friends, listening to my issues, taking care of me, taking on extra housework, and changing himself to meet my needs, and he�s deeply unhappy and not sure if he can get over the resentment. From my end, it feels like he blames me for everything � the sex, certainly, but also being here, having no friends or job, and generally putting his life on hold.

How much of this can you take responsibility for? He asked you to marry him the day he lost his job and found he couldn't get benefits. I assume he knew where you lived or would be living.

You don't have young children who would make it more difficult to get out and meet people.

Did he have friends where he lived previous?

There's a lot in there that I really shouldn't be taking responsibility for. This is part of where the resentment comes in - I feel like I'm being blamed. He did know where he was moving to, although the hope was that I'd wind up with a different job at some point and that we'd move - hopefully to some place with more or better job prospects for him.

Yes, he had some close friends where he used to live, although to my recollection, he only saw them every few months, at most. And you're correct that he could make some here. I've even tried to take him places and events where there would be people with similar interests, but that hasn't helped much.

Originally Posted By: labug

I think Hopeful Still gives good advice, work on you, figure you out and all the rest will fall into place.

And today, do something for you!

I'm working on it. I got a pedicure last night, did some shopping this morning, and might have a bath and take a nap this afternoon before I go out for a group run. Maybe I'll watch a movie tonight.

Take pilots advice and bury yourself into some other peoples stich's. I do that a lot lately when I feel something bad coming on, and it helps out immensely. And it's not all you, it takes two to tango, kind of silly to try and dance alone isn't it?

Journaling: I got out for a ride this morning, and did a bit of shopping - bought a new lamp and some new pants to accommodate the fact that I've been losing some weight through this process.

I spent some time cleaning this afternoon and had a long conversation with my parents and a friend. It seems all the voices in the chorus are singing the same advice that I'm finding here - get out more, live my own life, rediscover myself, and do more things for me. I'm doing it, slowly but surely, and it does feel like it's helping.

H. emailed this afternoon, but I didn't get it until he was already on IM. I asked how things were, and he told me a bit about the hotel he stayed in before asking about my day. I kept it short and then we just kind of drifted off. He IMed again later to ask a question - I answered, he thanked me, and then we didn't say anything else.

I know that keeping contact to a minimum is important here, but it's hard to not want to ask all kinds of details and keep him engaged and chatting. He needs this time, though, and so do I. As soon as I was tempted to ask him something else, I called my parents to talk with them instead.

M,

Important that you make all of your decisions with your intellect and not your emotions! Our emotions can steer us off into the wrong directions- directions that lead to D. You MUST use your head, advising yourself as if you were advising a friend.

People want what they can't have. Know how Madoff got all of those poor investors to give him money? He told them he didn't have room for them in his portfolio! That made folks crazy to get in with him! Begging, pleading, etc.. In a way, you are doing the same thing! Your H says he doesn't have room in his life for you, and you go nuts to get into it again. If you want him to want you, you must do the same thing. Become what he can't have. Become what everyone else wants....

As an aside; I think that panic is fueling your "love" for your H. As I said before, it's not a mystery why you didn't feel desire to ML to your H- you didn't respect him, admire him, or have a real attraction to him. If you had, you would have wanted to ML. You sound sweet, but you are also an enabler. You are allowing yourself to be treated this way. I honestly don't think that you will be able to have a balanced M with ANYONE until you learn to love and value yourself more. Even the best guy in the world will eventually start walking all over you, and lose respect for you, because you allow it.

I understand the panic that you feel, I really do. When you settle down, and realize what you have to offer another partner, and that this isn't the end of the world for you- you'll start to carry yourself differently. I now possess a confidence that I never had before. It was part of MY growing process to start looking at myself differently than my W, or my parents before her, had me seeing myself. I see the way other women look at me because of my confidence. I know that I'm a catch and wouldn't be alone if my wife left tomorrow. That's a very empowering thing! I love my wife, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying that I'm on equal footing with her now.

Stay strong.
-HS

HS, those are good words. I'm going to bookmark them. Thank you for being timely. Very, very timely.

Meghan and Maybell,
I invite you both to look up Train's threads and read through them, they may help. Oh, and do it quickly - they may disappear as they are cleaning up the site!

-HS

Originally Posted By: HopefulStill

Important that you make all of your decisions with your intellect and not your emotions! Our emotions can steer us off into the wrong directions- directions that lead to D. You MUST use your head, advising yourself as if you were advising a friend.

People want what they can't have. Know how Madoff got all of those poor investors to give him money? He told them he didn't have room for them in his portfolio! That made folks crazy to get in with him! Begging, pleading, etc.. In a way, you are doing the same thing! Your H says he doesn't have room in his life for you, and you go nuts to get into it again. If you want him to want you, you must do the same thing. Become what he can't have. Become what everyone else wants....

This is a great analogy. I'm going to copy this down, too.

Because we're both here all the time, it's been somewhat difficult to figure out how to adequately get out of his life on a regular basis. I've been out for bike rides, group runs, game nights, lunches with friends, yoga classes, meditation sessions, and whatever else I can. I've also avoided engaging him in conversation as much as possible, and have talked to him almost exclusively when he initiates. When he wants to talk to me about something, I mostly just listen and ask the odd question.

Admittedly, last night wasn't great. Although I kept it brief, I still responded right away to him having a problem, which he eventually solved for himself anyway. Today I've stuck to responding to his messages, and doing so after a period of time has elapsed. I was fairly brief, but probably could have cut down the responses even a bit more. I'm going to be out for most of tomorrow and will be heading to my parents' place on Friday for a visit and to see friends. The plan is to avoid contact with him as much as possible for the duration of his trip.

Originally Posted By: HopefulStill

As an aside; I think that panic is fueling your "love" for your H. As I said before, it's not a mystery why you didn't feel desire to ML to your H- you didn't respect him, admire him, or have a real attraction to him. If you had, you would have wanted to ML. You sound sweet, but you are also an enabler. You are allowing yourself to be treated this way. I honestly don't think that you will be able to have a balanced M with ANYONE until you learn to love and value yourself more. Even the best guy in the world will eventually start walking all over you, and lose respect for you, because you allow it.

This has been a prominent theme in my talks with friends and family recently, and I've booked an appointment with my IC to talk about it with her and to come up with a plan to work on it. You're correct, and I don't think I've ever really noticed before, but putting that idea into my head has made it abundantly clear how much I have enabled him over the years (although this is by no means the only area of my life where I see this as a problem).

I clearly need to work on self-esteem and self-respect and boundaries, I just have no idea how, especially when the panic and anxiety are raging. I'm hoping my counselor will have some suggestions or will be able to work with me on a plan for getting some of this straightened out. I've also ordered some books on co-dependency from the library to have a read through.

Originally Posted By: HopefulStill

I understand the panic that you feel, I really do. When you settle down, and realize what you have to offer another partner, and that this isn't the end of the world for you- you'll start to carry yourself differently. I now possess a confidence that I never had before. It was part of MY growing process to start looking at myself differently than my W, or my parents before her, had me seeing myself. I see the way other women look at me because of my confidence. I know that I'm a catch and wouldn't be alone if my wife left tomorrow. That's a very empowering thing! I love my wife, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying that I'm on equal footing with her now.

Can I ask if there's any particular way that you got to the point that you're at now?

If I look at this logically, there's no reason why I should feel so insecure. I have a grad degree, a reasonable job that I'm good at, colleagues who respect me, friends and family who love me and are insanely proud of me, and all kinds of other things that tell me that I do have a great deal of worth and value (including guys who I know would love to have a shot with me). And yet, I have the hardest time standing up for or asserting myself in a lot of different situations.

Hopeful Still, thank you. I have read through all of Train's.

Meghan, here is a link:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2465485#Post2465485

If you scroll down a bit she put links to all four of her threads in one post.

Meghan, a book that might help you rediscover your self-worth is "I Know I'm In There Somewhere" -- it discusses how we lose ourselves in relationships.

Thanks for the link, Maybell - looks like I've found my reading material for tonight!

Just read this advice from Starsky on one of Train's threads:

"Sometimes one has to take a short-term "hit" in the "nice" department in order to solidify a healthier, longer-term gain."

I'm copying that down too.

Journaling: Last night was better than the one before in some respects. I got in a run, had some dinner, took a bath, read a novel, and watched a documentary that I was looking forward to that H. had no interest in seeing.

Unfortunately, I was searching my email for an address I needed and came across some old emails from H., written just weeks prior to BD. He was kind and compassionate and said he was happy to take care of me and told me how much he loved me. They were hard to see.

I have IC this morning. The plan is to talk about my tendency to obsess over what H. is doing and try to control what is an uncontrollable situation and hopefully come up with something to try to level me off a bit. I have work to do, and it's just not happening right now. I also want to talk about co-dependency, enabling, and building self-worth, which I imagine will be the longer project.

After that, I think a bike ride and possibly lunch out might be in order in an effort to get in some GALing today. I'm also going to look into local quilting and knitting groups, something I've been wanting to do for awhile. This afternoon I need to clean some more and pack so I can visit my parents.

Question: H's birthday will be when he's away (first time for that). We don't normally do cards when we're together on the day itself, but clearly we won't be this year.

Do I send a card care of his family? If so, can I assume I should aim for something light and funny, since that's how we'd normally roll?

Also, do I call him to wish him a happy birthday, but just try to keep it short and sweet?

Since he feels ignored I don't want to just bypass the day, but I don't know what the best approach is for this since I'm trying to keep the contact limited.

M,

Regarding your question about self worth. For me, it was less about "how" I regained self worth, and more about my "believing" that I could change my perception about my self worth, that I could rewrite the script that I had been hearing in my head for years.

In my life, I had begun to see some people as "perfect", and, therefore, I was "imperfect" by comparison. As an "imperfect" person, i had to work extra hard to try to get folks to think I was ok enough for them. I see now how flawed that thinking was. Funny thing is, after coming through this, how many folks thought that I was "perfect", even though I wasn't, and I'm not. We're all flawed, no matter what it looks like on the outside.

I would remind myself every day, multiple times a day, that I was, in fact, a person worthy of good things. I was worth being treated properly. I was worth being considerate of. I was worth being loved, both by others AND myself.

As a pleaser, you are used to sacrificing for others. Unfortunately, you can see where sacrificing gets you- tons of resentment on your end, and folks that don't respect you on the other end. By learning how to ask for what you want, you will no longer feel resentment because of favors gone unreturned. Others will be forced to treat you with respect because they MUST.

Pleasers have a very difficult time with this. For whatever reason, they find it difficult to ask for what they want. The fear of rejection, or anger or whatever else, paralyzes pleasers. They'd rather do something themselves, even if they are already overwhelmed, and hope for gratitude and appreciation, rather than to ask for the help that they desperately need.

Recognize your tendencies and consciously stop them, using your intellect to direct you and not your feelings. Each day, practice asking for what you want. Today, start with one thing that you need help with. Look someone right in the eye and ask for help. Don't ask sheepishly or apologetically. Ask kindly but firmly- no matter how frightened you feel. Tomorrow, ask for two things. You'll notice how each time, each day, you'll begin to feel more in control of the world around you. Make it a habit.

-HS

M,
Just send a card. Do not write anything inside of it, just sign it. The card shouldn't be romantic in the least. As long as you are pursuing, he'll know he's got you on the hook and can treat you this way. Once you drop the rope, he'll start to panic a bit himself. After all, he's not exactly a catch for anyone else.

Are you a dog owner? If you walk a dog on a lead and keep tension on it, they will pull like crazy away from you. If you want them to stop pulling, you have to put slack in the lead, even though it feels like the exact opposite of what you need to do! Remember that when you deal with your H. I KNOW it feels counter intuitive- its why many on here fail because they just can't wrap their heads around the concept. It's also why I wanted you to read Train's posts. Did she make mistakes? Yes, but mostly she got it right. She was able to detach from her H and stopped trying to pull him back. Once she did that, he stopped pulling away.

-HS

Had a chance to talk to my IC this morning. She agrees that I've been enabling H. for years and that I've stepped in to fix too many problems. Clearly this is something I need to work on.

The first step, according to her, is to keep up with the detaching, which she knows I've been working on anyway. I'm also going to stay dark while he's on his trip and keep working on making my life what I want it to be.

She also wants me to give some serious consideration to the idea that things might not work out. She says that people with anxiety often avoid facing the things that makes them anxious, and that this might help with some of the obsessive trying to read his mind and predict his actions. It's also possible this could help with detaching if I can realise a bit more that I will be fine no matter how this all shakes out.

Finally, she wants me to come up with a specific list of things that would need to change were H. willing to work on the marriage. Clearly there are a lot of issues here, and she wants to work with me on a specific plan. Once I've got a list, we're going to talk about ways to make my needs known and how to deal with any fallout, rather than just trying to avoid conflict.

Thanks for the input, HS.

You're right that I fear anger or rejection if I do ask for or expect things. I told H. he could pass on a perfectly reasonable job when he complained about it because I didn't want to be the bad guy who made him do work that he didn't really want to do. I agreed to help him with his writing even though I had little time, and then he felt as though I wasn't committed enough because I wasn't able to contribute much and was slow to get to the editing.

Recently I've asked H. to do a few things by saying something like, "would you mind doing X this afternoon". His new response is, "Yes, but I'll do it anyway". This may be him being sarcastic (as he usually is), but with everything that's going on it pushes my buttons and makes me want to just do it myself instead and not ask anymore. I think I've largely kept away from actually taking over when he does this, but it's frustrating and causes me anxiety. I've also witched the "would you mind" to "could you".

I've been trying to treat myself like I'm worthy of good things today in some fairly basic ways. I've also asked for help with something from a friend, like you suggested, and will keep doing that. Thanks for the guidance - I really appreciate the feedback and help.

I spent some time today focused on thinking through some of the things my counselor and I talked about this morning. I've been encouraged to face the possible end of the relationship more head on, which was difficult. I've cried off and on through the day. I talked to a friend this afternoon who suggested holding off until I could do talk through this kind of thing with a friend or family member who could add some points and keep me from wallowing.

I've never dealt well with loss, and this one seems to be even more complicated by hope. Reading stories here that end well and feeling like there could be a chance to fix things gives me hope, but I often feel like I don't want to have hope right now. I've long believed in its importance, but I swear that hope hurts right now - the moments where hope is shot down feel like I've fallen even further.

Take the gift of time you've got while your H is away to just explore what it's like to be on your own, what you enjoy about your life that you can't or don't enjoy while he's around. Don't think of the future, one way or another. Just live your life for a little while. It's way too soon to wallow.

Hey, Meghan!

A little birdie told me to pop by.

I'm spending some time reading through your threads. I'm not completely caught up yet. But girl! You've got some time now that your H is away, and that time is dwindling fast. I know you're hurting. I feel you. I really, really do.

But what are some things you did that made you happy before you met your H? Things you did all by yourself - all FOR yourself - that brought you JOY? Can you give us a list?

I'm here now, and I'll keep an eye on your thread.

Soooooo ... how about that list?

P.S. When, exactly, is your H coming home?

Hi Train - thanks for stopping by! I appreciate the little birds around here, and was told earlier I should check out your threads, too. I made it through almost all of them this afternoon - inspiring stuff!

My H. is back two weeks from today - I think I'm freaking out because he's said this is his decision making time about the marriage and everything feels like it's leading up to our next MC session after he gets back.

It's actually been kind of nice to have the apartment to myself, though. I've been taking baths and reading by candlelight, which has been lovely. I've also been redecorating a bit, which is something that I've always enjoyed but haven't done a lot of recently, and everything looks really nice.

Before I met H. (and early in our relationship, too) I did a lot more running and yoga, which I've just recently gotten back to. I knitted and sewed. I read fiction just for pleasure, danced around the apartment to loud music, and played guitar (badly). I experimented with cooking different vegetarian meals and cooked a much wider range of foods. I watched more cooking shows, mystery series, and documentaries.

I also spent more time with friends, more time hanging out with colleagues after work, and more time with family. I haven't seen family or some of my friends in ages, so I'm going to stay with my folks for a bit starting tomorrow, and will see some old friends while I'm there. H. doesn't like visiting for that long, so it'll be good to get in a good visit.

Maybell - I can't say that I haven't recently felt like my life has gotten rather small in the context of this relationship. There are a lot of things that I used to do that I don't anymore, and I feel like I've lost or pushed aside some of my identity along the way for a whole range of reasons.

The wallowing is the bulk of what shows up here, but there are also things I've been enjoying on my own - not worrying how long I've been out for bike rides, cooking what I want for dinner, extended thrift store trips, reading on the couch by candlelight, and watching shows and movies that I normally wouldn't watch.

Maybe I should highlight a bit more of what I'm actually doing that's more positive - I tend to come here when I'm feeling most down, but there are certainly good moments during my days where I'm enjoying activities that I haven't in awhile. It's been really nice over the past few weeks to do more - I've joined a running club, reconnected with friends, gone antiquing, attended a music festival, and joined a tabletop gaming group, all of which I've really enjoyed.

Originally Posted By: Meghan

Hi Train - thanks for stopping by! I appreciate the little birds around here, and was told earlier I should check out your threads, too. I made it through almost all of them this afternoon - inspiring stuff!

My H. is back two weeks from today - I think I'm freaking out because he's said this is his decision making time about the marriage and everything feels like it's leading up to our next MC session after he gets back.

It's actually been kind of nice to have the apartment to myself, though. I've been taking baths and reading by candlelight, which has been lovely. I've also been redecorating a bit, which is something that I've always enjoyed but haven't done a lot of recently, and everything looks really nice.

Before I met H. (and early in our relationship, too) I did a lot more running and yoga, which I've just recently gotten back to. I knitted and sewed. I read fiction just for pleasure, danced around the apartment to loud music, and played guitar (badly). I experimented with cooking different vegetarian meals and cooked a much wider range of foods. I watched more cooking shows, mystery series, and documentaries.

I also spent more time with friends, more time hanging out with colleagues after work, and more time with family. I haven't seen family or some of my friends in ages, so I'm going to stay with my folks for a bit starting tomorrow, and will see some old friends while I'm there. H. doesn't like visiting for that long, so it'll be good to get in a good visit.

Find that woman again!

You're getting some great advice and insight here. Soak it up.

You have worth.

Journaling: Made it to my parent's place in one piece, although I cried as soon as I saw dad. We talked a bit more about the situation and they had some good insights about what's reasonable and what's not.

This afternoon I've been setting up plans with friends and family. There are a few dinners out and an ikea trip in the works, and my parents have said I can take their car whenever I want to just get away for a bit - I'm thinking of maybe a trip to the zoo or a nice hike or something similar. I'm also going to indulge in some personal finance and home decor shows tonight - my parents like to watch, too, so that will be nice.

I've also talked with my dad about some budget and investment things. We're going to look a bit deeper into it, but it seems like if I make a few minor adjustments I could afford a somewhat larger and nicer apartment, or perhaps a car. The idea of doing something that's somewhat big but really nice for me is rather appealing, particularly when I've been working hard and saving hard for a long time and making those kind of sacrifices.

labug - I just noticed the quote in your signature. I love that!

Journaling: Tonight, over dinner, my dad told a story about someone that he helped out recently. He met a guy who�d come a long way � hundreds of miles � to take a job far from home. The guy needed to get a particular place so he could borrow some money to eat. Dad gave the guy a ride and, when the guy wasn�t there, some money so he could eat. Scam? Maybe, but dad doesn�t think so.

Being the softie that I am, I tend to want to cry at stories like this at the best of times. People who are facing hard times really get to me (my fixing nature makes me want to fix the world sometimes). Toss in an emotional day and I�m doubly in trouble.

But the story really drove something home for me. It�s not really a DB technique, but it reminded me that I really, really need to keep perspective and remember that there are far worse things than I could be dealing with right now. This is not to say that I�m not experiencing a significant problem. It�s very real, and very painful, and something that has to be dealt with. But, in the grand scheme of things, I�m still insanely lucky. I have a wonderful family and amazing friends. I�m healthy and don�t have any major medical issues. I have a place to live, food to eat, and money in the bank. I have a job and a bit of a social life.

There are people in the world who deal with far, far worse than this on a daily basis, and I think remembering that could be helpful to me.

Journaling: I slept better than I have in awhile now last night, but still woke up a bit early. It's grey and rainy today, and I'm feeling pretty weepy and out of sorts myself. The situation hit me again, and I have some anxiety about focusing enough to get some work done on top of that, so I'm not feeling great overall.

I have no specific plans for today, but I should probably figure something out so I don't just sit here and wallow. I don't know why it's so easy to just sit, stew, and feel miserable, but it's upsetting to think about how much time I've lost to just not feeling good over these past few months. I think maybe I'll spend a bit of time on work this morning in the hopes that I can worry about that a little less and then maybe borrow the car and get out for some antiquing or something indoors.

If anyone has thoughts about contact, I�d appreciate it.

I�ve read DB and the thread on going dark, and I�m still not sure what to do while H. is away in terms of how much I should be in contact and when. The advice seems to be to not be in contact if you were pursuing or begging, but to have a bit more contact if you were distant through the relationship.

My only contact since he arrived back home has been responding briefly to his IMs that he arrived safely. I also sent a short email Thursday evening to let him know I was going away and to give him my parents� phone number. He responded with an email telling me to have fun and included a funny anecdote at the end. This is exactly the kind of email I miss getting from him, but I haven't responded. There isn't really much to say in response to it other than �thanks� or "that's funny", and it seemed better to stay quiet. Now I�m second-guessing myself, wondering if I should have stroked his ego by responding with a laugh.

H. said he wanted space to think about things and I know I�ve pursued since the BD, so I�ve been avoiding contacting him while he�s away, haven�t asked questions, and have kept any responses to him brief (I�ve also been doing this at home when he�s here). But at the same time, one of his complaints about our marriage was that I didn�t have enough time or interest in him or our relationship and that I�d basically �left� the marriage early on. I worry that he�s waiting for me to get in touch to ask about how things are going to show that I care, which is what I�d usually do. I suppose this is probably just me mindreading again � I should try to let that go.

In any case, I guess I�m just not sure what the 180 should be here, or just how much I should be in contact (if at all). I�m trying to be as unavailable as possible by spending time GAL, which is helpful. On top of that, do I keep leaving the contact to him and keep it minimal when it happens? It feels awkward and abnormal to do that, particularly when he can see that I�m on IM, but the point is to back off, stop pursuing, do something different, and move on with living life.

Meghan, he's with family, right? So he's probably GALing right now to. So if every time he pauses in an activity he sees a message from you, it's going to look like pursuit.

Frankly, I think his complaints about you distancing are manipulative. He seems, from your description, to have done precious little to nurture your affection. Give him space. Let him feel your absence. Make him chase you. If you spent all of the next two weeks enjoying your life, being mysterious, and then he comes home to see you glowing and happy, you will feel much better about yourself and he will probably see how little he does to contribute to that. What he does with that information is not predictable.

Quit worrying about him! If it doesn't require a response, don't respond! Don't initiate unless it's necessary. Remember, DBing is counterintuitive. So quit second-guessing your plan and go enjoy your weekend!!!

(So says the lady who went into a three-day tizzy over a single lunch.

do as I say...)

BTW, I have done distancing for three months and I *believe* it got my H thinking about me but I KNOW it helped with my detachment, which is invaluable. So there's that.

Learning new things always feels awkward and abnormal, don't let that be your yardstick.

As all the "shoulds" fall away you can get more info from your intuitive self. Something that you've probably buried very deep.

Thanks, Maybell - I needed to hear that, and you�re right about it looking like pursuing. I think I forgot that he�ll be out doing his own stuff (which is probably a good thing, since that means I wasn�t obsessing over where he is and who he�s with).

I appreciate your points about this being manipulative. I�ve been giving some thought to that myself. I don�t even think it�s intentional � it seems like he feels unhappy and is trying to justify some of his behaviours and regain some control by focusing on the things I haven�t done for him and all that he did for me. If nothing else, seeing things in this light helps to keep me a bit calmer when things aren�t going well.

When you said �based on your description� I got to wondering about whether I was misleading or embellishing. After all, this is all my perspective and it�s not like he�s done nothing for me � he�s done quite a bit of emotional caregiving and comforting and does do dishes and laundry and baking. I haven�t always been so good about doing the same emotional and physical caring for him. But at the same time, there�s a lot that�s been let slide around financial and household responsibility and contributions, and those are the things that I think are pretty factual and have been hardest for me to deal with.

Anyway, the plan for today is to get some work done this morning (without the input I would usually ask for from H., so a bit of a 180), have a nice lunch with my folks, and then head out for a bit of a walk on the waterfront this afternoon. I�d also like to sit down with my dad and talk a bit more about budgets and housing in particular � I�m not making any moves towards big changes right now, but I am giving lots of thought to what I�d like my life to look like, and I�m excited to see what�s possible because it gives me things to focus on and look forward to.

It's remarkable how easy it is to clearly see and advise what's going to be good for someone else and how hard it is to take your own advice. I'm getting a better sense of what I should be doing, but I still feel like I need the validation sometimes because it's so easy to second-guess. I like your point about detachment, though � I was thinking of staying out of contact in terms of whether it was good for the relationship, but shifting the focus to the ways that it�s good for me seems like a much better approach.

labug - that's a really insightful point. I've become so focused on blaming myself and fixing things that I'm overthinking and unable to get any kind of sense of what to do or how to act because I focus so much on what I think I "should" do instead.

You've got me thinking now about whether I've just been pushing my intuition aside for goodness knows how long now. Clearly on some level I knew something was wrong or making me uncomfortable. I was pulling away pretty obviously and really, really anxious a lot of the time. But I didn't listen or really think too deeply about what was going on, which meant that I didn't step up and do much about it because I could excuse it or write it off.

Journaling: Today was day two of no contact with H. It feels off � we both generally have IM active on our computers, and so we can see when the other is online. I�ve been getting out as much as possible and spending time with family but it�s odd to sit here working, knowing he�s likely right there, and not saying anything.

No contact has been challenging. I�m hoping it gets easier over time. Normally we talk quite a bit. Even these past few weeks when things weren�t so good at home we were both there and he was talking to me, and I was talking to him a bit too, but less than normal and largely when he engaged me. This is one reason why this time is likely to be important, though � we�re in each other�s business all the time, and hopefully this will give us the space to get away, clear our heads, and figure things out. He said he wanted space, so that�s what I�m going with.

I miss him, though. I miss sharing how my day was, listening to him talk about what he�s working on, and telling stupid jokes or sharing interesting articles. At the end of the day it feels like a huge piece of me is missing, and there are moments when I badly want to reach out just to see how he is, to let him know that I care about him and what he�s doing right now, and to assure myself that he�s not upset with me for not being in contact with him (which I know is pursuing, assuming, and clearly daft in many ways). To be clear, I haven�t contacted him, and I don�t plan to. I just need to get this out and acknowledge it.

I spent a bunch of time with my parents today, which was nice. We talked a bit about the situation, although there were no startling revelations or insights, just more confusion. I got out and went for a walk. I also did a bit of secondhand shopping, which I always find relaxing, and treated their car as my own personal soundstage with crazy loud music playing while I was driving. Tomorrow I�ll be spending the whole day with an old friend, and I�m really looking forward to it. He�s been really supportive and insightful, and I could use some hugs. I�m also hoping to see some more friends while I�m here, and I�ve been stretching a bit and sending emails to people who I haven�t been in contact with for awhile, which has felt both uncomfortable and good.

Meghan - so sorry to hijack. But labug, I would really need some guidance from a vet at this point, if you have time to look at my thread. I've been getting great mutual support with other relative newcomers, which is wonderful, but I am at a point where strong guidance may be a good idea.

Thanks in advance.

I had dinner with a close friend who�s known all about the situation for a awhile now and a friend of his who he thought might be good for some insights. I briefly talked about the situation, and the friend asked some questions. He was pretty flummoxed by the whole thing and seems to think � as most other people do � that H. is already out of the marriage if he�s not willing to work on it. This is always crushing to hear, and always leaves me wondering if there�s any hope at all.

He doesn�t want to armchair diagnose, but was wondering about whether depression could be underlying some of these problems. It does seem to match a lot of what�s been going on for a long time � excessive sleeping, not doing a lot, not going out, weight gain, and perhaps even feeling overwhelmed by daily life � as well as some of the more recent problems � mood changes, feelings of worthlessness, concerns about growing older, and so on. I�d forgotten about this, but H. has also gotten some frustrating news about a medical condition over the last six months, which might also have factored in. It�s hard to know, though.

The friend did reiterate many of the things everyone else has been saying. The stumbling block as he sees it is that H. is so angry and hurt that he�s unable or unwilling to accept any changes. If the things that he wants are things he�s also said he doesn�t want from me right now the only things I can really do is try to ease in as best I can and make small consistent changes without violating H.�s wishes. But he also thinks that there are other issues feeding in, particularly around H.�s self-esteem and self-worth and figuring out what he needs to be happy now and how to make his life better. These are the things that I can't solve for him � he has to do it himself.

He actually had an interesting suggestion that I�m considering. He suggested that if H. isn�t willing to accept things like hugs or sex or backrubs from me because he sees them as me getting something out of them or just trying to fix the relationship, perhaps I should focus more on helping H. make himself better and happier instead. This would show commitment and caring and might be more obviously for him. It might also help get him to a place where he's stable enough to feel like we can work on the relationship.

I�ve given a bit of thought to how I can do this. It�s been a bit challenging because I do feel like I have been supportive of the things that he wants to improve (and some of these things I suggested years ago and H. has never taken me up on, which is frustrating when he says I haven�t supported him like he�s supported me). I�ve been running with him and helping him lose weight by eating better. I�ve offered to do an elimination diet with him, which he said he didn�t want to do. I�ve been listening to him talk through some of the things he�s been working on to upgrade his work skills for awhile now, and it doesn�t seem to have made a difference, but I suppose the time period has been relatively short. I still get caught in the trap of wanting this fixed now, particularly since H. seems upset that things aren�t better yet.

Along with what I�m already doing a few more things I might try are offering to look over his resume and cover letters, connecting him with friends who might have job contacts, doing some research on alternative medical treatments so I can offer suggestions, and maybe even learning a bit more about what he�s working on so I can ask better questions and contribute more. I don�t want to take this too far because I do recognize that it could be easily seen as me trying to fix his problems for him again, and that seems like a bad idea. But if I can get a foot in the door with this, it might be an idea.

Thoughts, as always, are appreciated.

Just got an email from H. (I wasn't on IM all day yesterday, which is how he'd usually get in touch) saying he was checking in about how my visit was going and telling me a little brief bit about what he's been up to.

What kind of response is best to give for something like this?

Think about all that for 48 hours.

labug - sorry, was that in response to the first bit about last night, or the bit about the email, or both?

I was referring to the suggestions re helping your H fix himself. We cross-posted.

Respond in kind. Be friendly but not cloying. If he was brief, be brief. If he was a more detailed, be a little more detailed but less so than he was if he was reeeeaally detailed.

It hasn't been 48 hours yet, but I went for a walk and had a long think, and it didn't really take all that long to see that I've managed to talk about not being able to fix him and then talk about ways I can help to fix him in the span of a few paragraphs.

Journaling: Today was...well, fine, I guess. No tears, no real upsets, but also not really a joyous get-out-and-GAL kind of day. On the up side, H. isn't here to see that I've curled up in bed and worked and napped through most of the afternoon, so as far as he knows, I've been living it up on vacation and having the time of my life.

I sent a short message in reply to his email about how my visit home was. I still hate the feeling of hope and excitement that I get when he gets in touch, and the fact that I feel such a letdown when it's a basic, straightforward email. I miss the emails with nicknames and funny jokes. The funny one he sent last week was nice to receive and even though I think it was the right move, part of me is sad that I didn't respond to it.

Clearly, I haven't detached or let go of any expectations and it's affecting me still. I'm home tonight, so I think I'm going to spend some time reading up on detachment a bit more.

Meghan, it is hard not having things how they used to be. This journey has many up and downs that it's really challenging. Imo we want things fixed like yesterday but reality is that it can take a long time. My impatience and pain has been my worst enemy. I think you are doing great and are having one of those days. Like you told me - Be gentle on yourself. (Hugs )

Every morning I wake up with tightness in my chest, panicking a bit.

Every morning I lie in bed blaming myself and wondering what I can do to fix things.

It feels awful, and I don't know how to stop it.

My IC does Emotionally Focused Therapy. He says when you feel physical symptoms of emotional distress, you sit with it for a minute and try to unravel what the feelings are made of. As you name each emotion and its source, you find that it dissipates. The problem isn't solved but you are better able to relax into it and find your patience and other coping skills.

I know exactly what you mean, but it might be helpful to remember that you can't change how you behaved in the past, only how you conduct yourself moving forward -- and really, you only can worry about today. Once you can get your head around those two things, then it is easier to accept that the solution will take time and you can even get enthusiastic about the project of self-improvement (as long as it's SELF improvement for yourSELF).

Give yourself a hug from me and make a plan for how great today is going to be.

Thanks, Maybell - I'll give that a try in the mornings. I'm also going to get back to a mindfulness meditation practice to see if that might help a bit with the anxiety and the detaching.

Good plan.

I really like Maybell's advice on coping with the stress of the situation. My C also focuses on the Emotionally Focused Therapy approach and the techniques have been very helpful.

Journaling can also be really great. The simple act of writing down what you are feeling, wanting to do or say can be really calming.

Originally Posted By: Meghan

Along with what I�m already doing a few more things I might try are offering to look over his resume and cover letters, connecting him with friends who might have job contacts, doing some research on alternative medical treatments so I can offer suggestions, and maybe even learning a bit more about what he�s working on so I can ask better questions and contribute more. I don�t want to take this too far because I do recognize that it could be easily seen as me trying to fix his problems for him again, and that seems like a bad idea. But if I can get a foot in the door with this, it might be an idea.

Thoughts, as always, are appreciated.

Humble opinion: I think you should let him come to you if he needs help with any of this. Keep focusing on growing and healing yourself. Lovingly detach and take it one day at a time.

Back to EFT there is a great book called 'Hold Me Tight' focused on this approach. You may find it very interesting and helpful especially for what you are feeling right now.

Journaling: Today wound up being rough for no good reason other than I let it be. I woke up weepy, cried a bit through breakfast, and then completely lost it at lunch. I talked again with my parents about my tendency to keep blaming myself for what happened and explained that I consistently feel like I should have done more - had more sex, been more affectionate, listened better, saw my doctor sooner, and on and on and on. they weren't surprised by this - it's been something I've done since I was a child.

That said, I'm still somewhat unclear why I'm having such a hard time letting the blame go. I can sit here and acknowledge my failings while also listing the ways that H. has contributed to our issues. I have a handful of friends who have all made the same points about why I shouldn't wholly blame myself and why H. needs to take some responsibility and fix himself before anything else. Many people here have made the same points. But I'm letting his anger, hurt, and blame override my opinion and that of everyone else, and it's really doing a number on me.

On the up side, I did manage to get myself out to Ikea this afternoon. I've decided that I want a new bed and maybe some other furniture for my new, better life, so I'm starting to look at options. I also took a lovely nap and watched some funny TV this afternoon, got out for a walk, and spent a bit of time writing about what I want my life to look like going forward and steps I can start taking to make it better and easier in some concrete ways.

Right now, though, it feels a bit like I'm trying to fake it until I make it. My GALing is still marked by some sadness and loneliness, and if I'm honest I think I'm still sometimes doing it as much for him as for me (so he'll see the changes and all that), which is something that I need to let go of. I'm hoping that I can manage a shift soon so that it's not so marked by feelings of loss and more focused on actually living the kind of life I want to have. Today's trip out helped, but I need to be a lot more active in terms of planning things to do, working on doing the things from the list that I made awhile back, and figuring out additional activities and things that interest me enough to get me really excited, engaged, and eager.

Meghan, I have been taking St. John's Wort for the last few months and it has helped even out some of those moods (did clear with my doctor, who offered anti-depressants when she heard about my sitch). It doesn't hurt to use the tools available to you when you're going through a challenging time.

Thanks, Maybell - my doctor suggested against anti-depressants for now, but I think I might ask about that, and push for something, at least. I have some anti-anxiety medications for rough days, but I could use something to help calm things down on the regular.

Meghan,

Don't expect too much from yourself so soon.

I could be wrong, but you sound to me like you are a "do-er," a "fixer." Those of us who are like that often feel defeated and weak when we don't live up to our own expectations of ourselves. Even if those expectations are way too far-reaching.

When we are facing the "death" of a relationship (I'm definitely not saying your relationship, per se, is over ... but surely the one you guys had BEFORE is dead in the water, agreed??), we go through some of the same feelings as we do when - let's be honest - someone we love has died. Except, in THIS case, they're still here. And they've betrayed us.

So we are dealing with grief, mourning AND betrayal.

Go easy on yourself.

At the same time, continue focusing on YOU and things that make YOU happy.

I know it feels awkward. But you are getting stronger every minute of every day.

And pretty soon, you will get to the point of asking yourself: is what HE is offering good enough for ME?? Don't feel guilty about asking yourself that, either.

As a vet says on these boards: You're the cake. He's the frosting. And that's the bottom-line in even the healthiest of relationships.

Find peace with and in yourself.

If he rejects that? Silly him.

I think I'm letting myself wallow while I'm away from home because I can be upset without H. seeing me. Other than counseling sessions which have left me emotional, I think that recently I've kept things pretty even keeled and upbeat. This is unusual for me, and can therefore be pretty draining. It's been a relief to be able to be upset when I need to while I'm here, but it's not doing much in terms of pushing me to be better.

So, it's back to GALing I go.

So far, I have:
- set up dinner and a movie with a friend tomorrow
- set up lunch and a hike with another friend on Saturday
- set up tea with yet another friend on Monday
- booked an IC appointment to work on anxiety/assertiveness/self-esteem issues
- tried out new beds (in preparation for buying one)

Up next, I'm planning to:
- declutter and deep clean the apartment
- rearrange some furniture and pictures
- set up a meditation and yoga space
- actually do more meditation and yoga
- get a new haircut
- start a new knitting project
- join a wind ensemble
- sign up for a pottery class

Looks fabulous! Try to enjoy and soak up every glorious moment of your unexpected "you" time. It's good for the soul.

Train,

I am, indeed, a do-er and a fixer. I've always held myself to very high standards and, for the most part, I've met them pretty well.

I agree that the relationship that we had is dead, and I'd even venture to say that's a good thing. It wasn't making H. happy, and it wasn't making me happy either. But it's still incredibly difficult to be here with some who looks like my H. and sounds like him but doesn't act like him all that often anymore. I hadn't thought of this as betrayal, per se, but the unwillingness to work on the relationship seems to fit the bill.

I do have moments now where I wonder if what he's offering is good enough. I don't think what he's been offering for the last however many years has been. Although I've greatly appreciated some things that he's done for me, particularly in terms of emotional caregiving, there are a number of things that have been less than ideal. These things would need to change at some point for this to work.

For now, I'm trying to keep my eye on being a better version of myself. It's perhaps a bit too easy to wallow when I'm around people who just want to care for me, but I'm going to try to spend some more time out and about in the world this week and planning for some things that I think will help to improve my life.

Journaling: Woke up panicked and sad today, as per usual, but sat with it for a bit and it did start to dissipate. I asked myself some questions about what I want from life and who I want to be with, which helped to clarify some things. I also reminded myself of my positive contributions to the relationship and that helped a bit too.

I still feel sad. I'm frustrated that H. feels he's done all of the work he can on the relationship and that he's doesn't feel he should have to do any more when I'm standing here ready to work on our issues. The thought of never having the chance to work through them is heartbreaking (although he'd probably say that I've had all the chances in the world).

But, if nothing else, since I can't fix him I'm going to have to focus on me instead, and that's probably a really good thing right now. I have my own stuff to work on. I'm determined to make today better than yesterday. The plan is to do some work, get in a run, maybe do some errands, and then spend some time with a friend.

Meghan I'm the last person to give advice today but I wanted to stop in and reach out to share a hug.

All will be well, and all will be well, and all manner of things will be well. (I find that that last bit is perhaps the most important) thanks for your support!

Thanks for the hug, Maybell - hugs are always appreciated. I'm sending one your way too - it sounds like you're having a rough time, but know that this too shall pass.

Meghan, I feel the same, its such a shame because our WAS will never know how much better things can be, they will have to hit a wall first to realize, unfortunately its usually too late by then. big hugs also, you are not alone.

Today has been better than the previous few days (I think more sleep has helped), but there are still moments where I feel blindsided by realisations.

He'll be back in a week, and I'll have to manage my emotions and responses while he's around.

He may have come to a decision about the relationship. But he hasn't voluntary talked about our relationship in months. He therefore might not tell me what his decision is for awhile, and I will have to function not knowing if he's made one or what it is.

There will be MC a week and a half after he gets back. The counselor will assuredly ask what his verdict is on the marriage, and then I'll know and will have to deal with it.

I try not to dwell by actively working on or thinking about something else, which is helpful, but they do come back. The fear and anxiety are profound when they do.

Out of curiosity - does the MC have to ask what the verdict is on the marriage?

I mean...you've waited this long...Does he have to come to a decision by next week?

You've got a week till he gets back and two & a half weeks till MC. That's a lot to work with.

Here, let me loan you the 2x4s I got today.

You're doing great, Meghan!

MLP - no, I don't think the MC has to ask, but I'm pretty positive that he will. That was the central theme of our last session. He left us with, "well, I guess we'll see what H. says when he gets back" because most of what we talked about that time was hope for the relationship (H. has said he's at a 4 or 5 out of 10 and that he's one foot in and one foot out) and whether he could get past his resentment enough to work on this.

It's not that he absolutely has to come to a decision by next week, but H. sees this trip as a way to get some space, find himself, and sort out his head. There's an element of seeing if there's any chink in his resentment, too. He's also said he views this trip as a test of whether he misses me as a wife or just as someone he sees a lot, and that seemed to be a pretty big factor in his mind.

I suppose it's possible that he might not have come to a decision. But I'm afraid that the counselor asking him outright will push him into an answer even if he doesn't have one, and that the answer will be, "I don't know what else to do, so I'm out because I feel hurt and angry and resentful" (yep, that right there is assuming and reading his mind IN THE FUTURE, *sigh*). He doesn't seem to see any possibility that his feelings might change or that things could actually get better.

On top of that, I've been feeling like the counselor is pushing him to make a decision so we can move on from there, no matter what that decision is. I feel like a decision to end things would be premature - it's only been four months, and four not particularly good ones, either. To me, that's not enough time to effect significant change, and we haven't done much in MC other than talk about feelings and hear about how H. has things he wants but he doesn't want them from me anymore and doesn't think he should have to put in any effort at this point. So the MC pushing for that call to be made feels threatening, particularly when I get the impression that he's more interested in getting an answer and working with it than he is in more actively pushing to save the relationship.

Wow - sorry for the multiples - no idea how that happened!

Thanks for the two by fours, Maybell - I could certainly use them.

Two and a half weeks seems like such a short time from here. I know there's a lot I can do, but when I think of how little it seems that I've accomplished in four months (okay, only one and change of DBing, though)...well, it's difficult to see that there could be enough change to make a difference.

Not that that means that I won't give it my all, of course. If nothing else, I'll probably be blowing up my own threads looking for support and advice. I want to maximize whatever opportunities I have and do the best I can with what I've got.

Question: H.'s birthday is coming up. I've sent a funny card but neutral card that I signed, but don't know what I should do on the actual day.

Should I wish him a happy birthday...

Through a phone call? (After barely talking for a week and a half, I'm concerned this could feel awkward)

By email? (This is more impersonal, but wouldn't interrupt him if he was doing something else)

Over IM? (This is a pretty typical way of communicating and chatting for us - it wouldn't interrupt him if he was doing something but would still probably have us chat a little bit)

In any case, what do I say or not say to him? I definitely plan to stay away from mentioning the relationship, missing him, or his upcoming return home unless he brings them up. I also probably won't mention much about my trip and what I did. Is there anything else it would be good to say or good to avoid, though?

I would just say happy birthday and see how he responds. I sent my H a text on his birthday, but considering we were actually separated at that point I may not be the best person to ask.

Now I"m off to go have fun with friends who aren't close. Have a good evening!!

Meghan,

I think a simple "have a nice birthday" or "happy birthday" is sufficient. No need to try to *say* anything additional.

I spent some time this morning picking apart my anxiety after I woke up.

Today, it seemed to be about fearing that the last four years - or possibly even ten years - would be a waste if we can't work this out. That I would have wasted the best years of my life on something that never became what it could have been. That I played a role in that failure and its wastefulness. That within the relationship my world became so small that there were many additional things that I didn't do that I could have.

Of course, that doesn't account for the fact that there were still many things that I did in that time. Finished a grad degree. Got a job, plus a number of side jobs. Made great friends. Got myself in a reasonable financial position.

Clearly it's not all bad, but the feeling that this time has been wasted was intense and a big driver of this morning's panic.

Listen, Meghan, I'm 42, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that we are both of us in our best years now, with many more still to come. You couldn't pay me to go back to my 20s. Your fear that you wasted them is based very largely on how unhappy you've been during the last few years.

Even if the marriage can't be salvaged you didn't waste your time with it -- it was an extended lesson that was necessary to get you ready to make your next chapter (whatever it is) AMAZING. So don't beat yourself up for that, make use of it.

Ever hear of the song "God Bless the Broken Road That Led Me Straight To You"? That title is like a mantra for me.

This experience will only have been a waste if you choose to waste it. Go be strong today.

Maybell, thank you - you are consistently able to say things that get me to calm down, reflect, and feel better. Thank you so much for all of your words of wisdom.

I'm much more up and awake now and feeling a good bit better. I need to get in some work today, and then I'm going to spend a bit of time out shopping with my mom. I've been living like a student for a long time (two years past actually being a student now), and I'm looking to make the apartment a bit nicer with some new household things coupled with a good cleaning and decluttering.

I think this is a good 180 in terms of actually making the apartment more pulled together and more functional. This is something that's been bothering both me and H. for awhile now, but I haven't really done a lot about it and have mostly let it frustrate and annoy me. Actually making some changes should feel good - it's something I've wanted to do for awhile now, and it might be good for him, too.

It's also a 180 in terms of spending a bit of money. I've been extremely frugal for so long that spending is something I very rarely do. Being a bit less tightfisted will be good for improving the apartment, but might also show a bit of a change to H., too, since he's always been frustrated with my unwillingness to spend money, both in general and on myself.

Somewhere along the way I've read that if you can just get to the other side of MLC, that those are actually the best years of our life. So - hang on! You can do this!

MLP - do you think this reads like a MLC? I've wondered myself, but I haven't really been sure.

Journaling: Today was relatively calm. I managed to get some work done, get out for a bit, and generally focus on moving forward and imagining a good life for myself.

That said, I've found myself worried about how to talk to H. on his birthday a few times this afternoon. Interacting with him feels like a big deal now since we haven't really been in contact in days, and tomorrow I'm going to probably spend some time envisioning how that could go, so I'm as prepared as I can be for it.

I'm still not sure about how I actually want to contact him, though. Every decision like this still feels bigger than I want it to. Even when I acknowledge that his response to what I can do is not something I can control, I still have to make a choice in the first place, and I still want it to be the right one.

Phone, email, or IM? Decisions, decisions...

A few thoughts from today:

Although I still miss talking to and sharing with H. (sometimes profoundly), staying out of contact seems to be getting a bit easier.

Getting enough sleep makes a huge difference in my mood and ability to manage how I'm feeling. Tired days make for lots of emotional problems.

There are a lot of little things that I enjoy that I've given up over the years. I'd like them back.

Working is a reasonable distraction and also makes me feel better. The trick is getting started, but limiting my time reading up on fixing marriages helps.

I feel kinder, more positive, and more open when I'm on my own. I don't know why this is, but it's something to look at further.

Lots of people in this world have issues that are far harder to deal with than mine. This is hard and difficult and painful, but I am still insanely lucky in a lot of ways that I would like to appreciate more.

Ugh...a rough night's sleep (too cold and car alarms going off) and vague bad dreams make for particularly strong morning panic.

It would seem that I'm irrationally concerned about having to talk to H. on his birthday tomorrow and I'm no closer to having figured out if email, IM, or phone is the best option.

I fear this might be a theme for the day. Thoughts on the best way to actually get in touch with him (or 2 by 4s about how much I'm focused on this) are welcome.

Send him a text saying happy birthday and carry on. The only difference between that day and any other day is the significance you place on it.

You're correct that I'm (again) putting a lot of significance on this one thing, coupled with a good bit of mindreading.

Notes to self:

Stop the focus on controlling every outcome.

Stop attributing make-it-or-break-it significance to every small thing.

Stop the mindreading.

This is a typical anxiety response for me. I get caught in something that causes me discomfort and I spin and spin it until it takes on a life of it's own. It's not productive.

You've come a long way in only a couple of weeks. Pat yourself on the back.

I'd love to have a porch party with all you ladies. We could do zany trust exercises, group hugs, standing ovations, listen to the Glenn Miller Orchestra or Pink Martini and toast one another with chilled beverages.

First round: Cheers to a strong PMA!!!

Porch party!

Chilled beverages with you guys sounds terrific. I'm in.

Originally Posted By: Meghan

You're correct that I'm (again) putting a lot of significance on this one thing, coupled with a good bit of mindreading.

Notes to self:

Stop the focus on controlling every outcome.

Stop attributing make-it-or-break-it significance to every small thing.

Stop the mindreading.

This is a typical anxiety response for me. I get caught in something that causes me discomfort and I spin and spin it until it takes on a life of it's own. It's not productive.

This is so GOOD. The first step is being able to look inward and getting to know your responses.

Another good step is not labeling yourself as anything because of those responses. No judgment.

Thanks, Maybell - it's still so, so easy to fall into the freakouts and difficult to see any progress. If nothing else, though, I think I've been better about thinking through what I should be doing, checking in here, and actually engaging H. differently, even if I'm regularly freaking out on the inside and on here. This forum has been a lifesaver.

Okay, a porch party would be awesome. I actually found myself wondering the other day what a gathering of people in this situation would look like, and it was kind of fantastic. The only thing I'd add is a big bonfire at the end of the night where we can burn wishes and resentments on little pieces of paper. And maybe roast marshmallows.

Yes yes yes on the bonfire! I love it!

I, too, wonder what a gathering of people would look like! I walk through the mall, down the street, into church, around school and I wonder, "Who else has been through this or is going through this??"

I feel like the only one, but then I come here and I know I'm not the only one. It's just such a weird little invisible club!

Thanks, labug - I think I'm getting better about recognizing when I'm thinking in problematic ways, I'm just not always so good at figuring out how to get out of the cycle when I'm in it.

That should probably be the next step.

No judgment is a bit difficult. I think the freak outs often leave me judging myself as crazy, obsessive, and broken, but I think I'm moving away from that both in terms of my marriage situation and in terms of my life in general.

Happily, this is a big 180 for me, and one that I'm sure will have great benefits. I have a new anxiety program that I'm just starting with my IC, but I like it so far.

MLP, I've felt like the only one, too. Very few people that I know have been through anything like this. It's such a relief to be able to come here and to know that there are people going through similar things and having similar responses.