Here is the background.
My and my S have been married for 11 years, and together for 14. We started dating when she was 18 and I was 19. She had a 1 year old child that she had when she was 17, and was a high shool drop out.
I was a young guy new to the Bay Area back then, and fell in love with her. She moved maybe 3 months after (she had gotten kicked out by her parents, and ended up staying with me after a bit).
Two years early, a grenade had gone off 8 feet from my head, peppering me with schrapnel. I came within 2 milimeters of losing my life, and thought I had died when I woke up. I thought I had got through the PTSD (flashbacks) but when S came into my life that was the first full nights sleep I had gotten in years. That comfort I got was so amazing. I finally felt at home.
Our relationship however started as primarily sexual, and the feelings of love, as well of deep attachment for me were immense. She kept pestering me over the next couple years to marry her, and after two years I proposed to her. I however really wanted to stall to ensure we had couples counseling and a firm base.
Fast forward to feb 12 2004, I got activated for the war in Iraq. S was so scared that she would lose me she talked me into a courthouse war wedding. Instead of planning and preparing, and having all the good stuff, I got to wave goodbye to her, my stepdaughter and my life.
I was completely destroyed. I had gone from a high paid consultant, to the bottom of the rung in the Marines. I missed them so much, and was getting demeaned every day in the shop. I was completely broken, I became distant.
When I did come back, well. We had lost everything. S had lost her job (laid off). The little one bedroom apt we had was gone and she had to move in with her parents. I of course had to move in there too for a couple months.
When I came back, I had lost 70 lbs, and she had found 30. I was a complete dickhead and called her out on it, and used the best communication skills from the marine corps I could find (they are horrible btw.. lots of control talk). This set up the pace for our marriage....
We were surviving instead of thriving. I ended up after a couple months getting a good job back in the bay (at a much lower salary) and started working my way back up in the world. We ended up moving to a condo on the beach, which had it's share of stresses.
Shortly after, S decided that she wanted to bring a baby into our marriage. I protested, but when she went off of birth control, I really liked the sex and well... My son was born in 2005.
In the last trimester of the pregnancy, I lost my job again. And ended up taking the last 3 months off. While stressful, I lined up a new startup gig in San Diego and those were the best three months of my life. I felt incredibly connected with S. I was balanced, I was rested.
My son was born, and we ended up moving down to San Diego for the new startup. I got lost in work, and S got lost in hidden credit card debt buying toys and stuff for the boy. (also a serious case of insecurity and keeping up with the jones's).
I had at that time moved to a consulting firm, maybe 2007. I was mostly working locally, and had balanced my self out with good friendships. S however was riding the guilt wave of living a lie - the lie of hidden credit cards.
This ended up in her leaving without telling me. She left for a holiday at her parents house, with my 18 month old son, and then 10 year old step daughter. About 6 weeks in (she just never came home) she told me that she wanted a divorce.
When she finally came clean about what had happened, I accepted her. The one thing she never thought would happen would. We worked together to dig out of debt. It was a great time of partnership. We would watch the total money makeover nightly. We were so very close and connected.
Shortly after (2009), my weight had been ballooning up, and I had a heart attack scare and decided to fix it. I started cycling again, with a goal of riding a century. I had ended up taking a new position, and had lots of stress eating.
The weight came flying off, and about half ways through S started dropping weight too. We were having so much fun turning from fat people, into young hot people (I was 30 or so, she was 28)
Our partnership was very close, and S started going down the surgery route for a couple years. Got her lazy eye fixed, her snaggletooth fixed, and got fake boobs.
After the boobs, I noticed that our relationship started to turn. I was becoming much more insecure as she was the center of attention. I didn't feel the commitment. Shortly after I took a new job that took almost all of my energy and had me on the road all the time.
The next couple years were a teeter toter of ups and down in our relationship. She had a major sickness, that triggered anxiety issues in me. I started stress eating, stopped working out, and saw the love of my life addicted to pain killers just to get through kidney pain. We were in the ER at least every week, and I had to put my job aside to handle it.
I was broken, it was a huge trauma on me. And worse even, the PTSD stuff, activations of my sympathetic nervous system were taking over. I would say they hospitalization of S was the tipping point. I really thought the love of my life was going to die. I didn't feel in control. I was completely crushed and thrown in to a deep depression.
After 8 months of ER visits, we finally got a surgery scheduled. It only partially worked though. S had a month or two of significantly less pain. Things were amazing!. But then the pain crept back in, she couldnt' sleep. went on anti-depressants and constant pain pills.
This has been the norm since the sprint of 2013. I was completely depressed, and poured myself into work. S had at least one EA during that time. I had zero clue what was going on, and most importantly my impact on it. (hindsight [censored])
Fast forward to the spring of 2014. S got accepted into a software development course, something that would take her from a housewife with a side job of photography to a professional.
Right before she gets accepted she gets a job offer. We both decide to put it on hold (I think i really pressured her) to finish Dev School. What I didn't see was that she had started to have an attraction to the recruiter for the startup. Again, hindsight 2020
It is the hardest thing she has ever done, has to learn so many new skills, and the instructors end up turning against her. She tells me that she has to move to the City (about 1 hour away) so she can study more. What I didn't know at the time, was that this was the beginning of the end.
She goes through the 10 weeks of school, and stops coming home for the weekends. I ended up finding my place as a dad, and re-engaging with the kids significantly, though due to our crappy communication skills I end up asking her to leave the parenting to me while she was gone. Effectively severing her from the family. It was hurtful for me to do that, so hurtful. I didn't even realize it though as I was only sleeping 4 hours a night, wired on caffiene trying to do all my work job, plus the job that S had done at home + be a active in the community.
I was basically an anxiety basket case, would trigger on all sorts of things, was completely depressed, and had no idea how to get out. I was segmenting myself just to survive.
About a month after valentines day, and a month before the end of S's school I had a complete breakdown and ended up reaching out to some friends for help. One gave me the best advice every - you have to take care of yourself.
I started doing some positive psychology work, and started seeing color in the world again. Started to hear songs instead of melodies. Things were starting to look better in my life. Sadly S didn't see it, and I believe had already started to connect with the OP.
S graduates, and I'm expecting her to come home, decompress, relax. Instead she sets the start date of the new job the Monday after graduation. She has to go to Texas for training, and effectively never comes back.
After a month of this, I'm losing my mind. Every insecurity I have is kicking in. I am not being supportive (that is what she says, and I would agree) as well as completely smothering her). I know there is fault on both sides, But I was a giant Anxiety freak out machine.
This culminated in a huge blow out, where I was trying to get her to not be so negative, see the joy in the world that I was seeing. And her finally telling me that she hated me. I had a snap reaction, since i was going to be on the road for the next 3 weeks, and screamed, "I deserve to feel love! I love you, but I am leaving you" I ran out to the car to drive away, and she followed me out, threw the keys out and held me for a couple hours as I cried hysterically.
I hadn't cried like that in years, and it felt amazing to finally feel a connection with my soulmate again. What I didn't realize was this was the beginning of the end.
A couple weeks after the start of her new job.I get her to come out to Hawaii with me and the kids. What I didnt' realize was that she was incredibly insecure about her new job, and hadn't told the job about the planned vacation. This created lots of fights, escalating tension and general feeling that I wasn't supporting her.
She of course didn't verbalize this, or I didn't listen. Probably both. Finally one night we go to a sushi place and I get her drunk (she never drinks around me). She broaches the subject of having an open relationship. Now for me, I haven't kissed another woman for 14 years. I had built my sense of self around being a loyal husband and dad.
I ended up caving, instead of sticking to my boundaries. I was incredibly uncomfortable, but started reading every book I could read on it, and contacting friends who were in open relationships for their advice.
The number one advice was to get counseling, S didn't want to, she just wanted to rush.
(what I found out later was the first week she left for Austin she had forgotten her Zoloft and ADHD drugs.... she went cold turkey without me knowing)
She had no empathy, and was risk taking. If I had only known. At the same time, she had already had a habit of having EA's and I believe that accelerated with the OP at the startup. I think this was the real reason behind her broaching open relationships. This of course made me incredibly insecure since I didn't feel very connected to her.
Fast forward over the next 2-3 weeks, she keeps pressing the boundaries, asking for more. I keep going past my boundaries and basically have a mental break. S moves from wanting me to go external for other women, to wanting girls herself, to men, to seperation, to divorce.
This is all while we are both on the road. Me working my but off, and her living in a hotel in Austin while working at a startup (she kept talking about feeling relieved.. no responsibility.. )
This culminates in a huge blowup where I got super drunk and lost my mind. I really hurt her trust that night. She had me move out (I ended up staying at a friends for a while) while she ended up leaving for Austin on our 14th relationship anniversary.
Now the great anger she had for me had calmed down a little, but she was cold and withdrawn. Saying she felt nothing towards me. I ended up driving her to the airport after sleeping in the same bed (only rubbing her head for contact) which was a huge increase in access to her.
The agreement was to have a month apart. Now, of course I'm an insecure idiot, so I am blowing up her phone with Txt's. I am sending 10 + 2000 word emails a day. I am overloading her, forcing her away while trying to get her close.
My world was falling down around me, S had taken our 15 and 8 year olds out of school and sent them to grandma's. I couldn't cope at all. I did everything wrong by the book. Thankfully, I had really good friends who were coaching me to give her space, and to work on myself. I started buying every self help book I could, and ended up booking a week at this hippy resort where I ended up taking some trauma therapy, and starting to address my PTSD nervous system stuff.
At the end of that week, I had turned a new leaf. I hadn't contacted S for a week (there was no cell service there, and I started to realize that I actually needed to give her space. I came back, after her not reaching out for 2 weeks. She actually reached out. Of course I screwed it up by not doing active listening, which she ended up hanging up on me. This continued over the week. What I don't think I realized at the time, was that she was giving me a chance. And of course I was failing.
That was roughly 3 weeks ago. One week ago I picked up the divorce remedy book. And poured through it (after a who bunch of surviving separation type books). I decided to focus on therapy, instead of going to europe for Vacation to center myself. I am finding that I am much more balanced, and even though I get this huge anxiety waves around the OP, I am dealing with them better every day.
2 weeks in a drove her car to Austin as a surprise (she was communicating that she was going broke renting one). She was in complete shock. I didn't ask for anything in trade, just met her at the airport ready to walk away to a plane. She gave me the longest warmest rubbing hub, told me it was good to see me. I practiced active listening as she rambled for about 40 minutes. I hadn't felt this connected to her in a while. She asks me to txt her when I got home to make sure I was safe, which was extremely sweet.
I do, but no reply. The cycle of hot and cold continues.
Now, I pulled a stupid move. I hadn't read through the DR book yet, and didn't see the LRT. I went ahead and booked tickets to a play on broadway right after a conference she was at. She ended up declining, but I flew to New York anyways. I ended up seeing the show alone (it was awesome) and then booked a train to DC. Spending a touring holiday alone was huge for me (and hard). But I made it through, part of proving to myself that I can be independent.
Last night, it turns out she has 2nd row seats with the OP to UFC fight. I actually see her on TV with the OP. Now this triggers my anxiety, and I can't really sleep all night.
Luckily I had finished the DR a couple days before, I had been journaling instead of txt'ng and emailing for the last couple weeks. While I had small failures, they weren't as epic as earlier in the cycle.
So today, I'm on a plane back home from DC. My S is I believe hooking up with the OP. I broke down and bought a coaching package so I can just do what someone says instead of continuing to screw stuff up myself.
The one thing that has been good is that I have made immense progress in me the last month or so. People at work are saying that the old me is back. I am mindful of my feelings, mediating, as well as doing stuff for myself.
I am starting to get to the understanding that I can't rush this. That I need to be patient, and can't control anything in life. I'm starting to understand that the OP relationship may last 6-12 months. This of course crushes my soul, and I have to accept that I need to let go. This has been the hardest thing I have ever done. Life with the S, also whether I am going to move with the kids to Texas is all up in the air. But I am chilling out, taking care of me. Continuing to lose weight (down 50 lbs since christmas).
I am scared, so scared about what the future holds, but am starting to resign myself that this may be a multi-year process, and I need to be a whole me for it to work.
Fingers crossed, and thanks for reading my huge lengthy post.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks Cadet.
Over the past couple weeks I think I have made the turn to Detaching and GAL.
I have been studying buddhism, getting therapy for past trauma's, cleaning the house like crazy man.
I'm throwing a UFC party this weekend (she lives in Austin now). As well as getting my pilot's license a couple other things.
I did pop for the coaching, and am focusing on not reaching out to her, and just being attractive (I am already down 50 + lbs since christmas)
One thing, I did get a call from her while I was on my way back from DC / New York on a little personal vacation. I mentioned that I started working out again.
The next day, she posts on facebook that she ordered TRX straps because she didn't like the way her butt looked. I am sure I'm mind reading, but I do think there is a connection.
That being said, I'm trying to use the Gift of time to make a better me. I wish I had done this earlier in the relationship, but I do hope that fate will being us back together. I really do believe she is my soulmate, I do have hope.
One thing I have noticed, is she hasn't said the word divorce, or separation in any of our conversations since our big blowout. Is this normal? Is this a sign for hope that something can be salvaged?
yes mac it is...and don't ever mention it or bring it up..start DB and GAL...trust me never mention it..i did and ended up getting it filed.
Thanks for the advice. I'm not bringing up anything. There is a deadline for School to start (she moved to Austin, and wants the kids out there). I had agreed at the start to move out there to follow her.
I think I can do that without bringing up the D word. I am focusing on GAL. Still losing weight, the house is immaculate (which is still full of all her stuff.. she literally just left with her suitcases for work and never came back.
I am focusing on being attractive, working out. Writing, keeping the house in order. Basically getting my Mojo back.
I am not going to force anything with her, just trying to show her compassion. It is so freaking hard though. It is really really hard though.
But at he end of the day, I am becoming a better more balanced person. I am coming out of the depression I have been in for the past two years. I hope at some point that she notices.
Update, today she connected with me on Tripit. (it's a travel tool that shows when either of us is traveling). Apparently at the end of the month we will both be attending the same conference.
This is either going to be awesome, or horrible. I'm already feeling extreme anxiety around this.... And scared that I will screw it up.
Update, today she connected with me on Tripit. (it's a travel tool that shows when either of us is traveling). Apparently at the end of the month we will both be attending the same conference.
This is either going to be awesome, or horrible. I'm already feeling extreme anxiety around this.... And scared that I will screw it up.
You won't screw it up BigMac, you're part of the DB community now. Plenty of people here to give you a hand.
Update, today she connected with me on Tripit. (it's a travel tool that shows when either of us is traveling). Apparently at the end of the month we will both be attending the same conference.
This is either going to be awesome, or horrible. I'm already feeling extreme anxiety around this.... And scared that I will screw it up.
Let's all make sure we get you ready for this. Let us know of all interactions and we figure out how best to play it.
I agree the conference is a huge thing. If this was a rom com it'd be the end of the movie when you reunite forever and for good, but by now we all know things don't play out that way.
First impression is that NO alcohol should be consumed at the conf no matter what! There's also the danger of your wife getting cold feet if you use it as the opportunity to fix everything at once. I also expect it'll be hard to give her space (which she will need; it's a professional conference where she should be getting contacts and knowledge, not be smothered). I guess you're in the tech industry, and there will be a lot of men using networking as opportunities to flirt.
I am not saying any of this to be negative, just to illustrate that preparing for the best scenario is not likely to work.
Hope you're feeling OK today - keep posting.
I totally agree! Stay away from the booze! Having a clear head at this time is KEY!!!!!
Totally get the anxiety that you have surrounding that....Woof.
Yes, the last conference we were both at was 2 days after she said she wanted to separate. I asked her to give me space, and not attend the same parties, but she threw a fit and I backed off.
People ended up overserving me booze to console me, and I ended up acting like an ass.
Yes, we are both in Tech. I am a pretty big name in this space, and thinking about getting up on stage to appear more desirable. (plus, I love being on stage).
You are right, in a Rom Com this would be where we sweep each other off our feet. In the reality we live in, at best this is more contact where we have a chance to work on light connect talk. I am worried that the OM will be there (he was at the last conference too). I am going to have to do alot of working out and mediating to make sure I am centered on this one.
Also, she is in Austin now renting a room, I have the house that we rented in the Bay Area. We haven't been in much contact, but originally i was going to rent a room in Austin to find a good neighborhood, and then rent a house out there, and we can share access to the kids.
Now, I am thinking about just keeping my main place in the bay area, and just renting a single room in Austin, and just split my time. This puts the kids full time with her (I have been watching them as a single dad since January of this year), with the exception of the last 4 weeks where they have been at the grandparents and I've visited them every 10 days or so. (I had to take time for me to heal)
I am thinking about picking them up for the next two weeks and having them at the house, though I am a bit apprehensive about my mother in law being a pain. I guess I need to man up and stop being so insecure.
What do you think needs to happen in your M?
It seems there are a lot of emotion driven decisions or non-decisions as the case may be.
What's your take?
I don't want to stray too far off-point here, but one thing that struck me reading through your story is how complicated / pressurized your lives have been.
Reading about the injuries you sustained, to a high-flying career, her a young mom who seems to have had challenges in her teens, the reactivation, moving houses, body image/health issues that you both worked hard to solve, career setbacks, debt, housing issues... first thing is to both give yourselves a pat on the back for getting through all this.
We know from reading MWD articles and books that a major driver of breakups is the lack of time couples can make for each other. And she's talking about QUALITY time - not one person on the iPad and the other watching sportscenter. You yourself mention that the time you spent working down the credit card debt were some of the best times, when you felt so connected. I suspect this is actually because you were doing something that mattered to you both, together, with a shared goal. That's actually how it should be all the time according to DB!!
So, while I can't pretend to understand your circumstances enough to offer feedback on the life decisions you're about to make, all of what I do know scream to me: SIMPLIFY!
If keeping the Bay Area house makes things easier and more relaxing for you, fine. If it turns into a pain in the a$$, and the flying back-and-forth gets tiring, then maybe you need to streamline. From your background you'll know about apps or big projects - it's not my background myself, but I'm sure that you must excel at identifying process steps or product features that don't actually add value, and aggressively culling them. I would suggest that doing this with your life may give you the chance to spend more time fixing yourself, and being there for the kids.
Also, bear in mind that over time (years), you don't notice stress and fatigue anymore if you've been going full blast all that time. But you can certainly tell it's taking its toll anyway. So don't be a hero and be good to you!
Hope this helps - certainly helps me, it's like I'm talking to myself!!
Take care
I think we need to learn to communicate, and be best friends again. We would just escalate light and heavy control talk, as well as have a mutual dependency on each other.
I need to learn to be less controlling (I have PTSD, which I am getting treatment for now.. but one of the things is you try to control everything because you don't trust anything in the world).
So in short, we both need to work on our communications, value each other as people. And get talking again. We stopped being friends for a long time. I was trying, but not in the right way apparently.
Mat, you nailed it. I have been going full steam since I was 17. The past 2 months of my life is the first time I have really slowed down (I pulled back at work to deal with this craziness and myself)
I am hoping that this gives us the chance to focus on being friends, and surmounting a challenge. Just right now, well... things went very far downhill very fast.
Update
This afternoon I went to go pick up the kids for a week. Normally my D15 helps watch my S8 if I have to work late or something.
Now when the original break happened, S got me to accept putting the kids at the grandparents for at least a month, but most of the summer as we figured out moving and ourselves.
On one hand, she was smart by making sure I wouldn't lean on the kids as I worked through the hell of initial separation. However, I have been seeing my Kids at least once a week (the grandparents are 110 miles away from me).
So, I text my MIL to pack the kids bags for a couple days so I could have them at the house, and do a bunch of activities. Well, my D15 lost her mind, and now decides that she doesn't love me, and doesn't feel comfortable around me. My thoughts are that my in laws are echoing her feelings (she is a borderline problem child, but I love her anyways).
So, I finally get past the lies and by the in laws and get D15 to talk to me on the phone, and she is at least honest with me, she feels she doesn't love me, and feels weird around me.
Now, when I first text my MIL to pack their clothes up, I get a text from my S (last contact was a call on Sunday when I landed for a layover. She is curious where I am taking the kids, but pleasant. I tell her the scoop, saying I think something is up with D15 and I think the kids need to be in counciling.
W says she will call me later (she was at work 2 time zones ahead). When I get the call, I am walking into a meeting and tell her that I only have 5 min, that I have a meeting (good example of ending the call, putting a little space at least)
She says to call her back later to deal with this.
I end up driving towards the in-laws (5 hours in traffic) to pick up my S8 for a couple days (i'm bringing him back up early Sunday morning). After I get a ways past the traffic bubble I pull over to grab food and facetime the W.
The facetime went good. I had written out my goals, which was to communicate well, and successfully co-parent, and not let D15 catch us in the middle with her adolescent lies and stuff.
That seemed to work out well, we talked just about the kids. It was pleasant, but not warm. Then W noticed that I had changed my hair to a Faux hawk, and said that for years she had been trying to get me to do that, and the girls must really like it.
I am not sure what I should have said, but I said.. there are not girls, I'm just working on me (I'm not sure if I should be a bit more coy, but I don't want to start a jealousy war).
She then asked if I was going to be at the conference coming up, I replied yes, I will be on stage on Tuesday. W replied that she is working the booth for her work. I'm not sure if I should have, but I said hey, let's grab some coffee. It seemed to go well, but after this past two months.. I have no clue if things are good or bad, right or wrong.
Any feedback? Did I handle it right, any improvements?
So, today I had my S8 (picked him up from the grandparents last night). We went and ate at the breakfast counter, played some Xbox, then went over to a friends house for a pool party / bbq.
I was posting pictures on facebook and twitter, and W liked one of him swimming, and then I posted a picture of a cat tanktop I had, and she posted a comment (this is a first for us so far.. OMG). I followed the coaches advice and just posted a simple
back along with Awesome Kittee!
The sad thing, is that W spent most of the day alone in her place. A couple hours after I posted that she wasn't taking advantage of the 4th, basically fishing if anyone was doing something... 2 hours later she posted a pic of herself (which is normally her fishing for compliments, if she is feeling insecure)
The interesting thing, is she moved to be part of her "startup life" yet she is all alone with no friends on the 4th. I feel bad for her, but then this is the life she chose.
Looking back through my contact log with her, apparently the LRT has been working, as well as GAL. Her comments yesterday on facetime (dealing with D15 issues) was noticing my hair style change.. saying the girls Must love that. Commenting on my stuff today. Definately an increase in attention from her.
One thing that has been going through my mind, is say she does approach me to work on things, or to reconcile. What do I do? In my own mind, I'd like to take it super slow, to date for a while. Continue to find and improve myself, as well as verify she is improving herself.
The good thing is, I am keeping a PMA. I'm out and about having a good time. Spending time with my son has been great, I do miss him so much. Spending time with him, as well as seeing him play with other kids has been sooooo great for my peace of mind and perspective.
What a story! I am wishing you the best of luck BigMac!
Stay cool.
Hugs,
Lisa
Edit for the last comment. Instead of I posted that she wasn't taking advantage of the 4th, She posted that after I posted my stuff.
And yes Lisa, it's been quite the dramatic story. I think Mat nailed it. We have been through so much and just need a little bit of a break from life, just a couple years of things going easy.
I think we need to learn to communicate, and be best friends again. We would just escalate light and heavy control talk, as well as have a mutual dependency on each other.
In what ways were you not communicating?
What are you doing to learn to communicate better? (forget the "we" part, you only control you)
I get what you mean (I think) about best friends but "best friends" is a very different R than S. What is your definition of best friend? Were you being a best friend?
I need to learn to be less controlling (I have PTSD, which I am getting treatment for now.. but one of the things is you try to control everything because you don't trust anything in the world).
It's good that you're getting treatment. It's not an easy thing to overcome.
About the control, most people here, including me, are controllers. We get that.
What kind of treatment are you getting? (not specifics, just in general)
So in short, we both need to work on our communications, value each other as people. And get talking again. We stopped being friends for a long time. I was trying, but not in the right way apparently.
You stopped being caring spouses maybe?
Again about using the "we," you have no control over what she does. The hope with DB is that, we change and it gives our S room to change. Some times it works, sometimes it doesn't. But if you take responsibility for the only person you have control over and make changes that are real and lasting, you will be better for the experience no matter the outcome.
What was happening was that each time W needed to discuss something that hit my Anxiety triggers I would activate, and have some sort of an escalation when we couldn't come to a dialouge based discussion.
Either that, or we would battle for control of a conversation, and I generally would win. W would then "aggree" but then not follow through. We got in this ever devolving situation where I was trying to get my needs met (or felt like it) but she felt forced into meeting them.
Both of us have high anxiety, so the behaviors would get repeated on both sides, but I can only fix my own stuff. To quote her, W and the kids were walking on egg shells constantly around me.
Getting PTSD treatment (I have done a couple sematic therapies - Constallation therapy and regression with DPMD). I am 1000 times better right now, as well as continuing work so I can be 10,000 times better.
I never stopped caring in my heart. I would try to buy her love constantly, but what I didnt' realize was that I should have probably put my efforts into listening to her. I was so screwed up, that I would just monologue, not dialogue. I wasn't listening to her, and of course she would find other people who would listen, other guys who filled her head with other things...
So I have been working on PTSD stuff.
I have been taking communications courses (really good).
I've been journaling
I've been investing in myself, getting a life
I cut out all stimulants (caffeine, etc)
I'm taking responsibility for my own care (cleaning house, paying bills, etc)
I'm hanging out with friends
I'm investing in hobbies (in 7 min I head out the door for flight training)
I'm throwing parties, instead of hiding in a corner (throwing a UFC viewing party tonight)
I'm trying to change me, in the hope that W and I have a chance to become friends again, something that I've missed with W for the longest time.
Operation Get a Life is continuing today.
My day consists of
1. Journaling, and relaxing with some tea out side in the morning
2. Hanging out with S8 while he played TitanFall
3. Going and getting a flying Lesson
4. Inviting some friends over to watch UFC 175 tonight at my place.
Normally I would be all anxious, and honestly I am a little right now. But I am working through it (will probably go upstairs and meditate for a while)
I will say, I have been cycling between being happy with living apart for a year, and working on myself, to just missing her like crazy. This separation stuff is really hard.
Good job on sticking to GAL. I am trying to do the same have been playing guitar a lot this weekend. I miss my wife like crazy as well and just was to talk to her and tell her I would do anything for her, but we have to resist and just change ourselves.
It's hard when she goes back and forth, because I am not good and staying strong when she "needs" me again.
So, party was a success. Had multiple people over, great conversations and a relaxing good time. I'm continuing to prove to myself that I can GAL. That I can survive and succeed.
Who knows if the W will even notice, but at the end of the day this is for me. Knowing that I can be full and happy on my own. Even if it was only for one night, it's a start.
Even if we do come back together, I need to be this way, as an individual not a dependent spouse.
So yes, today was a win.
Very weird Twitter post from the W
After a day pretty much alone on the 4th, while I was out with my S8 BBQ'ing at a pool party with friends she posts this
'What are you doing with your life? Get your [censored] together!"
This was not a reply to anything, just a blind post after it looks like 30 min alone at some bar.
I don't want to read into anything here, but spending a holiday alone in a new town (she has been there for 3 months now). I know I'm not supposed to believe anything she says, and only 1/2 of what she does, but that seems like a cry for help. Especially after posting pictures of herself (fishing for compliments like usual).
My course of action is to keep up with the LRT. Continue GAL, Continue to make me awesome and attractive to myself, and maybe her over time.
Am I reading to much into this? Could this be the start of a crack?
Glad to see you have a firm handle on yourself and what you need to work on in regards to yourself. I agree that you should NOT be reading anything into your W's tweets. A million things it could mean so no reason to even try and guess. And even IF she was fishing for compliments, she would not be fishing for yours at this point. Let her have her own journey while you have yours.
Best of luck to you my friend!
Yeah, she is looking for attention from anyone. Classically W would seek attention and validation externally. Usually by posting selfies to twitter and facebook. The more comments and likes she got the better mood she would be in.
(we both used to be super fat, and she was and still is very insecure about her looks, always looking for external validation).
At this point, I'm just ignoring her (no contact). I think the reality check for her has to be that the validation has to come from herself.
One other point that I'm starting to realize. W would commonly blame me for us "not having a life" even though I would travel the world with her. Since I started addressing my anxiety issues (huge 180 for me) and since she left, I've found that when I am not focused on whether I made her angry or not, my social life is greatly improved.
I just downloaded a book on co-dependent relationships, trying to get more visibility into things. I will say that when we were living together, I would feel so sad all the time. Probably more sad then when I do now. The attachment I had to W just broke my heart every time W and I would fight.
Now that she is gone, I guess I'm growing up and realizing that the only one that I can depend on for my happiness is me. And that if I don't make a conscious effort to be happy, I never will.
Journalling
One interesting thought, the last connecting email that W sent (on May 17) had a couple very honest points from her.
That was the one where she said she wasn't sure if she ever loved me, and I was the best she could ever get (In my heart of hearts, I am trying to still be the best she can ever get, and then work on building connection and love).
One of the other points she made was that she lost her identity, she had become entirely passive. Everyone in the industry new her as oh your are bigmac's wife. She wanted to find out who she was, what she wanted, etc.
I am finding that I needed that too. I had focused so much of my energies and efforts on her moods, her wants and needs, "US". I was so focused on rekindling our marriage, when honestly she was repressing a whole bunch of crap that she needed to figure out on her own. There was nothing I could do to change that, except change me.
So, just as she didn't know who she was, apparently I had lost who I was. Every single decision about me would be qualified with - will the W like it. As I look at my actions, that is a giant floppy man with no Mojo. It is unattractive, and it is bad for my soul. It led to me taking care of everyone else but me. This was especially worse in the last 2 years or so, when the W got sick. All my energy was focused on taking care of her, and none on me. I lost myself trying to find her.
Internally, in my counseling and reading it has become really apparent that I suffer from self loathing (I was raised by an abusive single mom). As I deal with that, as a take care of me I'm finding that I never want to go back to being dependent on anyone or anything (work is a big one) again. It just makes you feel bad about yourself, and makes you useless to the world.
It is kind of crazy that W and I share some of the same challenges that we are addressing during this separation. It does however work well having compassion for W. I know the past couple days for her must have been really hard. It [censored] to be in a new town, and figure out that you don't have as many friends as you thought. It [censored] to figure out that even though you are beautiful, people will eventually tire of it if there isn't something substantial underneath.
I hope that at some point, we are communicating in an honest open and caring manner enough that it would be safe for both of us to reach out to each other. She was my best friend for 14 years (more realistically, 11 or 12 of those 14 years). These are the times when a best friend is great to have, but because of our own communication and growing up challenges we can't be there for each other... and that is probably the best thing for both of us right now.
Your journey sounds similar in many ways to my own & you give me inspiration to continue with the positive changes I need to make for myself.
Thank you for that
It seems you have a good plan of action. Keep at it. The most difficult thing will be to not swoop in and try to save her. She has the ability to save herself.
Compassion is always good.
What does this mean: I just downloaded a book on co-dependent relationships, trying to get more visibility into things.
Its just a realization that I was in a co-dependent relationship for so long that I bought a book to learn more
And yes. No swooping. Letting her feel lonely is a good thing.
Today has been less of GAL for me, but more just be a good dad day. Spending it with S8. (Been doing that the past 4 days). It's been so good to have him with me, 4 days ago he was quiet and withdrawn. Now he is talkative, and happy. It's amazing what a couple days with dad can do for a little boy.
Of course during all of this, still getting waves of missing my W. I hate it when it happens, but I guess it's inevitable, though I wish it would stop.
Got a contact from the W today on the drive home from the in-laws. Apparently her favorite Guinea Pig died today. The kids (especially D15) was freaking out. We talked for a few minutes, and then she had to call back D15.
I said, ok talk to you in a bit, and no call back (it is late where she is at).
I am not pursuing, texting or anything.
The call was cordial, no tension, just talking. Now that I think of it, every conversation we have had for the past 3-4 weeks has been without anger, or frustration from either side. I don't know if that is normal, the conversations are few and far between, but at least we aren't fighting?
Journaling
This morning, I started reading co-dependant no more based on a recommendation from one post in the forum. Wow, I can see myself in some of the words.
Ok, bad day at work today.
I was in the office, researching new neighborhoods in Austin. Comparing home prices, rents, school ratings, commute times. A wave of emotion came over me, my neck tightened up, I had to leave.
My W went out there in April for work, and never came back. She had decided to move to Austin the week we officially separated, and I would agree with anything she asked for back then.
While I am not apposed to moving, the emotions that came over me were so intense that I had to go home. I cried so hard. I know patience is necessary, but the kids and school are kinda forcing the schedule. And our lack of real communication right now makes it even worse.
My coach says to keep all her stuff here in the SF bay, because it will anchor her. I am just lost and confused at the moment, and accepting that it is ok to have a little cry and take some time to myself.
I guess this is my new normal. Kind of OK interspersed with spazing and crying. WTF has my life come too.
You can be lost and confused, it happens. Don't judge yourself for your grief.
This too shall pass.
Do you want to move to Autin? Can you move to Austin? How are you going to see your kids?
labug
I hope it passes. Today I had a therapy appointment where I chose the topic of codependance. How every time I snoop on Facebook or Twitter I just feel bad.
He said that this is like an addiction, that you are addicted to her. And you have to quit. That it will hurt so bad, but it will hurt either way. I'm trying to quit her, but .... I guess I am worried that quitting my W is not loving my wife. I'm worried that I won't want her back.
Does that sound as crazy to you as it does to me?
Re: Austin. She moved to Austin 3 months ago (it was over a month before she bothered telling any of us .. she said it was just for work). Legally I can keep the kids in Ca, however that would involve lawyers, as well as controlling my W.
I have really been working on not controlling her, and that includes supporting her if she wants to move the kids out there.
I can work in any of 56 countries in the world, and can work anywhere in America I want to. The only caveat is that if I am outside of Silicon Valley, it means I have to fly a bit more. So, I agreed when I was in my grief state 6 weeks ago to move, although I did say that I wasn't in a position to make a decision then emotionally.
Right now, the kids are with the grandparents 110 miles away. My daughter is pissed at me (16 year old, feels abandoned and doesn't want to come visit me). I have my son however at least every other weekend for 3 days or more. If they move to Austin I will at minimum rent a room there, and change my home address (no state income tax). That puts my home airport out of there, and I have 10,000 excuses to fly back to the bay to my rental house here.
All of W's things are still here, our entire life, art, memories, are here in this house. Luckily it is a rental, and we can move. But it still is just one more change that I'm not so sure I'm ready to make right now. I'm fragile, barely hanging on some days. And while each day seems to be better then the next, most nights have at least one moment of pain and longing.
I wish that I didn't love her, this would be so much easier. Why does love have to be painful?
Yet another contact from the W. This time asking me to overnight her contacts to her in Austin.
I replied 2 hours later saying I was out doing stuff, and asking her where they are . Honestly, i feel like just saying, order your own damn contacts, or how bout you catch a flight back home and get your own stuff.
The frustration right now is mounting. It's been 4 months since she went off the anti-depressants cold turkey without telling anyone, and then left for a new state and a new job, and 6 weeks since the official separation. I'm pretty drained. Kinda looking forward to an upside.
I was thinking after doing some more reading about codependency and self esteam issues that the fundsmentals of DB - detach and GAL are breaking codependancy and build a full sense of self.
Another contact from the W today (and yesterday). I was out GAL doing flying lessons and she texted me asking me to overnight her contacts to her (70 dollars to overnight btw).
I responded a couple hours later asking where they were, and then waited till this morning when I was on the road driving to pick up my S8 from the grandparents to ping her about the address.
I ended up sending it out after I had lunch with S8 (it was great putting us first), and Texted her the receipt with the tracking number.
Dumb question, is it normal for her not to say please and thank you about things? Normally I add please to a request. Or am I just reading into her MLC craziness?
Positive things about the interaction.
1. I matched her pace of texts, waited as long to respond as she did
2. I didn't say the last thing (I let her reply to the last message, and then didn't reply ..
3. I am trying not to let the rude / selfish side of her get to me. Knowing that this is not her true self, but her MLC self.
My W asked me to FED EX her a document the other day. I did. She got it this morning and was very grateful when she got it as well as when I texted her a copy of the receipt with the tracking number. I am not saying this to brag, but to illustrate reactions based on where you are in your DB efforts and where your W is emotionally. 2 months ago I am positive it would have gone unmentioned by her. Do not read anything into her reply (in my case) or lack of reply (in your case). take it for what it is. You did a nice thing, and she knows it. How she deals with it on her end is her deal.
On a separate note, awesome job on taking flying lessons! I hope you stick with it. Flying is one of the greatest joys I have experienced outside of family.
Thanks for the perspective Pilot. I'm still so early into this process (3 months since the downward spiral, and only 6 weeks into our official separation.
I keep getting anxious about school starting soon, and this hope that the love of my life will realize that both of us were depressed, and that made it so I wasn't able to be her rock for a while. But I am on my way back to being her rock now.
I know everyone says that Patience is necessary, and time is your friend.... I guess I need to look back at my journal and see how much I have grown in the past 6 weeks, and to look forward to how much I will grow in the next 6 weeks... and the endless 6 week periods after.
I'm doing more reading about codependancy and the MLC process for Women.
I feel for you being early in the stich. I helped my W fix her internet the other day over the phone, and got a very good thank you. Like Pilot, a few weeks ago might have been a different story, in fact I doubt she even would have said anything to me about it. Don't read too much into it, just keep being the best you that is possible. Very cool on flying lessons, if I ever get enough cash together I would love to try. Last year I flew for the first time in a small 2 sweater and even held the stick for a small time, felt very good to be going over the ground at 5000 feet.
Yeah, Flying is fun. My youth was full of aviation, the past 20 years however have been full of responsibility. Since my W gave me the gift of time, I'm using it to have my own little MLC and take care of my inner child. Flying is one of the things that my inner child wants to do, so it's done.
I've always done very well, worked really hard for my families money, and never spent it on myself. All of my resources were focused towards my W (very co-dependant behavior on my part).
So, now I get to spend a little bit on me.
So, I've been doing more reading about MLC. My W is very obviously in one. We both lost lots of weight in 2011. She started buying new clothes, looking young and sexy. Got a new job in April, after moving to another city for school in Feb.
The six stages of MLC all were readily apparent. Including the anger stage when she got back from school.
The thing that gets stuck in the mix, is that she went cold turkey off anti-depressants and ADHD meds. Talking to my IC that can cause temporary insanity. I'm wondering if that's what tipped her further into the replay stage, then how will that effect the timelines of her coming out of it?
Also, had a hard hit this morning. I noticed that she had unfollowed me from twitter and foursquare. I have no clue when this happened, but it still hit me pretty hard.
First off, your W is not in MLC. There are a number of triggers that set off an MLC and your W hasn't had any of them. It sounds more like her issue is with her latent depression.
I would have to agree on the depression more than possible MLC. Could be a little mix, but going off the meds cold turkey is not good at all. I hope she can figure herself out and either get back on, at least understand her problems. It's hard to see that go on from our side of things, but still just not much we can do for them. I have tried to go cold turkey of depressants before and it was a terrible just few days. Try to have patients and faith in the best.
Going cold turkey off of antidepressants is not good at all and can be harmful. That is why a dr should slowly lower the dosage. That's my opinion and I hope your W gets help with her issues which she has to work on her own just like you have to do the same for yourself.
Mr Bond - So, we both lost about 100 lbs each 3 years ago or so. She got plastic surgery (new boobs, fixed a lazy eye, and dental surgery in 2011. She had a kidney fail in 2012, and then got new skills and a job. the first half of 2014
Yes, she was severely depressed (as was I) during the downward spiral, and I guess that she is still depressed now (I know I am). The worst part is, after 3 weeks of her not coming home, and not communicating at all with me I stood up and said "I love you so much, and I deserve to be loved. I am going on the road for 3 weeks for work anyways, and I am leaving you so we can figure this stuff out). She had said some amazingly hurtful things right before, and I just wanted her to love me.
For the 14 years of our relationship, I had always been the rock. I had always been the one to be there for her when she had a hard time. I always got us through it. I wasn't there that time. I was weak.
She came out to the car, threw the key away and held me as I sobbed for 3 hours in her arms. She showed me love, but I think I pushed her over the edge and into the arms of a new job and an exciting new man, place or thing.
She dropped the bomb on me roughly 3 weeks later, after a decent into madness of pressuring me to sleep with other women (in the name of her wanting my Mojo back). I think she was just trying to get me to take the first shot across the bow so she wouldn't have guilt for doing the same.
When we first met she was a single mom, high school dropout when we met (she was 18, I was 19). I took her in and started caretaking (co-dependant bullshit). So, she never really had a chance to stand for herself. She has always acted like a teenager financially, and decision wise. And I wasn't wise enough to realize that I just needed to back up and let her make her own mistakes and she would grow.
Now, I keep classifying this as a MLC / WAW. Do you guys not think this is a MLC?
She has been not mean to me lately (at least the past 6 weeks) Though she has been only sporadically reaching out. I am so confused, I just want my best friend back. I want my family back together. I want a chance to get it right again.
I am working on myself, detaching as a seriously co-dependant spouse has been one of the hardest things ever, but I am working super hard to do it. I am getting a life. I am taking flight lessons, friends are teaching me to swing dance, I have been traveling, and I'm really doing an OK job at being a father to my son (my daughter has withdrawn, and I'm trying my best there too).
It is really hard. I am very thankful for this board, and the DB coaches. I don't trust myself to make decisions right now, and I appreciate all the guidance I can get.
Pilot, I had another lesson today. We did power off stalls, and uncontrolled airfield work. The last lessons I had were 21 years ago, but apparently the muscle memory is still there.
Pilot, I had another lesson today. We did power off stalls, and uncontrolled airfield work. The last lessons I had were 21 years ago, but apparently the muscle memory is still there.
I made the mistake of telling my flight instructor I had spent a night out drinking the day before. He said it was time to work on unusual attitude recovery.
I am sure you are loving the flying lessons. Once you get your private pilot, go straight into IFR. You will be a much safer pilot once you do.
Thanks for the tip on IFR. From what I hear, I can get that covered under GI bill too
Definitely looking forward to it. If anything it gets my mind of the W
I am just going to say a hard thing. It may be best at the moment to try and figure out what you did, your end of the M negatives. Try not to focus on her problems and what she is doing, but do more for you. I didn't listen to this at first and paid the emotional price. It's hard, but worth examining your problems to try and fix those. It also will make it easier to detach and GAL.
I have been focusing on that, The biggest thing has been addressing my PTSD and Co-Dependance issues.
Getting treatment for Trauma has been huge. My nervous system was turned to 8. It was impossible to have a conversation without activating flight or flight syndrome.
I've also been working on my communication skills. I was talking, but not listening. (I've been working on Dialogue as well as Active Listening).
I'm down 56 lbs since Christmas, and just got into size 33's that I haven't been able to wear since 2011.
So, great advice to work on me. The past 6 weeks have been intense work on me, as well as being there for my kids.
The biggest thing, is I lost myself in our relationship. I am finding who the heck I really am, and trying to connect with that person.
Operation GAL continuing today.
1. Ate at the lunch counter with S8 (done)
2. Going to see if there are any fashionable suits to wear next week
3. Getting some new fitted shirts in loud colors
4. Getting a personal shopper at Nordstroms to help me out with some clothes
5. Taking S8 to see the new Planet of the Apes movie
Ok, mission accomplished I -
Ate breakfast with S8
Bought a kenneth cole pinestripe suit, in a skinny size
Picked up some new shirts, that are loud and my size
Picked up some nice jeans from Bloomingdales
Picked up some new chucks
Took S8 to see the new planet of the apes
Bought most of the books on D15's book list for her birthday
Went to the Post Office to fix why mail hasn't been being delivered (the W was responsible for that, and well... my life was a mess)
I still ended up crying in my room, while I wrote out a birthday card for the W that I will never be able to send (I ended up just burying it in one of her underwear drawers)
So, good day of getting a life, still dealing with the emotional rollercoaster that happens during holidays / birthdays, well.. on everyday.
I consider your day a success. A step in the right direction. Keep going.
That sounds like a good day to me, that is the big positive to come out of my own sitch, me & my son & getting to spend lots of time together doing stuff we both enjoy.
We went to see the new Transformers, which was way too long & will go see Planet of the apes next.
Thanks, trying to take it one day at a time.
On the menu today -
1. Taking S8 to a pool party
2. Flight Lessons
3. Dance lessons (learning to swing dance)
I still have a hole in my heart right now, But I am trying to GAL with everything I have.
So, this morning I was going for a bit of understanding of the path that the W took on the way out.
I can see so many of my own problems causing this. Two weeks before she left for school, I got really drunk, and I embarrassed her. I had a huge PTSD activation (blowout) and had to have a friend come talk me down. I hurt her emotionally. Two weeks later she had to move away for school.
I can see in our history, how she was trying, but really depressed (as was I).
One month later, her project time started at school and she totally withdrew.
One month after that, you can see her attraction starting to the OP, the flirting.
Except in this case, she was living in a hotel in another town for work.
She pressured me into "open relationship" not because of her wanting me to get my "Mojo" back (that was her excuse) but really to have an excuse for the feelings and or actions that she was taking.
So, now. She has cleaned me out of her Instagram (at least the recent pictures of 2014). She has unfriended me on foursquare, and doesn't follow me on twitter.
My gut feel is that she just was hurting inside when she saw me, but maybe she didn't want people to see that she had a man. (she "accidentally" left her wedding ring at home on a work trip the beginning of May.
Sorry for the ramble everyone, i'm just putting stuff together and getting visibility.
1. My instability and neediness was more then she could handle during her own journey.
2. I wasn't there for her to be "her rock" which I was for our entire relationship
3. She made a choice, but my actions drove her away.
4. My avoiding treating my PTSD stuff (I was so afraid of facing that) made it so we couldn't communicate, and made it so she had to deal with my blow ups.
This is my fault. I probably will never get my marriage back, and I need to accept that.
It [censored] when you realize, that there wasn't an evil ex, when it was just you being broken....
She pressured me into "open relationship" not because of her wanting me to get my "Mojo" back (that was her excuse) but really to have an excuse for the feelings and or actions that she was taking.
She would have done this with or without your consent. In her current state of mind, what you say doesnt carry much weight with her.
So, now. She has cleaned me out of her Instagram (at least the recent pictures of 2014). She has unfriended me on foursquare, and doesn't follow me on twitter.
This doesnt mean anything. You need to stop looking for things like this ASAP. This will help you detach and start concentrating on yourself.
My gut feel is that she just was hurting inside when she saw me, but maybe she didn't want people to see that she had a man. (she "accidentally" left her wedding ring at home on a work trip the beginning of May.
Mindreading. You do this quite a bit and need to let it go.
1. My instability and neediness was more then she could handle during her own journey.
2. I wasn't there for her to be "her rock" which I was for our entire relationship
3. She made a choice, but my actions drove her away.
4. My avoiding treating my PTSD stuff (I was so afraid of facing that) made it so we couldn't communicate, and made it so she had to deal with my blow ups.
What are your plans for ad[/b]dressing each of these? Be solution oriented and dont just list the problems. Take a serious look at each one and figure out what the [b]solution is going to be.
This is my fault. I probably will never get my marriage back, and I need to accept that.
Are you really giving up this quickly??? You just started DBing and you sound defeated already. Man up and get your act together here. You want to be the rock for your W? Then do it. Anyone can give up and take the easy way out. The rock would stand up and fight for his W.
Youre off to the start of a bad day based on the way you are posting here. Do something fun today and clear your mind. Dont sit around and be depressed because of what is going on. That isnt going to help you at all. If you need to break down, then break down, but get yourself up and start working towards your goals. You can do this man.
What I have been doing is
1. Going to IC, getting treatment for PTSD and other traumas
2. Cutting the rope, breaking my co-dependancy on her.
3. Getting a life, that is independent of her.
Also, I had a big shock today. I got a credit card statement in the mail. Apparently she opened one up before the downward spiral, and ran it up big time. There is no legal separation paperwork, so I am on the hook for half, though it is only money.
The thing is, she had done this once before, years ago and ran because of it. We worked through it together, and it was the closest we had ever been.
I fear that that guilt of the credit cards, plus coming off the antidepressants plus the new job and city was all to much. I guess I am just saying that it is to much for me right now. I just want to curl up in to a ball and have this all be over. I also worry that my W will be defined by her compulsions for the rest of her life, and will not grow through this crap.
Sorry about being negative, but it's just been a really rough day (Monday is the W's birthday...)
Stay strong Bigmac, I have made many of the same mistakes as you but as long as we learn from them all is not lost.
Things may seem dark atm but they can quickly change as I have seen from reading other members stories.
This is for us a journey to becoming a better person... or as I think of it 'a bigger man'
Sorry for being so down guys. Today is the W's birthday. She will be 33 today, and yes I am sad that I don't get to celebrate this with her. I am doing my best to cut the rope. Holidays / Birthdays are hard.
Aside from when I was activated for war, this is the first time in 14 years that I haven't done something special for my W on this day. This is the first time in 14 years that I haven't been able to look into her eyes and see the my soulmate growing older with me. This is the first time in 14 years that I can't share in the joy of maturing together.
So yes, I am sad. I miss my friend. I miss my soulmate. I miss my wife. I miss my partner (even though the past couple years she hasn't been acting as one) I accept that not missing her, not loving her is the only way to have a chance of building something new. But I can't ignore the fact that it breaks my heart.
So yes. My logical mind is telling me that this is normal. That she needs to find herself and finish the maturation process. My logical mind says this is necessary and we will come out stronger on the other side. My logical mind says that she will learn valuable lessons being out on her own (Balancing finances, understanding that most men only want one thing, Valuing family as well as freedom).
My heart however just misses my soulmate, misses the little kind things that she used to do for me. My heart misses my W. And all I can do is accept that those feelings are normal, and let them pass while getting a life.
Top GAL activities yesterday
1. Continued flying lessons - Progressing nicely
2. Learned the basics for swing dancing last night, I can't believe how sore my muscles are after this.
3. I un-followed my W on twitter (we both have 1000's of twitter followers, and this is a huge deal to un-follow her back.
So, activities for the day.
1. Packing for a 2 week trip. Hitting San Diego, Austin, Portland and Seattle.
2. Taking S8 to Great America with some friends
3. Getting to sleep early to catch a 6:30 flight Monday for work.
4. Finishing the book co-dependant no more
5. Meditating to start the day.
I'm trying. I'm working on
I'm fairly new here, but I understand exactly what you are saying with the just missing her, I went through the same thing with birthday and holidays and V-day, and really hadn't read the books at that time frame, and it's easy to fall back into that type of thinking, but just think how positive things will be if you continue to fix yourself and give her the time to find herself as well. I know how bad it hurts to go through these times, but it's ok to think about these things, just pick yourself up and do something positive for yourself when these thoughts cross your mind. Stick with the process!
BigMac,
I hate to hear you are having a tough time right now. You seem to have a good handle on what you need to do, but 2x4 time on DETACHING. The only reason today is tough (birthday) is because YOU have made this day out to be important. It does not have to be anything but a normal day. Even if you were in a strong M, the world would not end if you did not do something for her today, but next week, or next month. It is just symbolic because you have made it that way. I am sure you would give up 1 birthday for a lifetime with her. And for that reason, you need to detach.
Being in this funk does not help you mentally, emotionally, or even physically. And it certainly will creep into your interactions with her and facilitate making mistakes you would not make if you were detached. I know it is tough buddy, we have all been there. Focus your mind on other aspects of your life and force yourself not to dwell on what she is doing, what day it is for her, or anything about her at this point. I am not suggesting quit loving her. I am suggesting taking that love, stick it in a box, put it on the shelf, and go get it once you and your W are at the point you need it again. You will find by reading the success stories here, most of the ones who have the greatest success and quickest success are those who detached quickly, and to the point their spouse thought they had truly moved on. That should be your encouragement and motivation for working on this.
Best of luck to you!
Thanks Pilot,
You are right, I am in a bit of a funk. This sounds crazy, but as I move on and go through the process of detachment I start to feel mad at her. I start to see her as flawed, vs on the pedestal I had her on. I hate myself a lot less then I did 6 weeks ago.
I am worried that I am just distracting myself, vs healing. I am scared that if I see her for how she is really acting that I won't want her back. Instead of having anxiety about her, I'm having anxiety about me.
After 14 years, I am only me. It is scary to know that I need to be ok on my own. And I think it is really scary to realize that I will survive, and I will thrive. I will be a good dad, a good person, and a good partner (To who I have no clue).
That thought, when for 14 years I defined myself as a Husband and Father scares me, I get depressed when I think of it. I need to get through it, but it doesn't change how hard it is.
I hope this doesn't sound crazy, and I am not sure if this is a normal part of the process.
Big Mac, I wish you strength and resilience to get through your journey. I have no wisdom to offer, just compassion and support. But you MuST be strong on your own.
One thing the DB challenges is what you would do if your W passed away. She wouldn't want you to be a shell, so while you would grieve her and always have love for her and feel that loss, you would have to keep living. Think of what you would do in that case and do it.
It's so important. Don't worry about if every change is something your W asked for during the R. Someone else pointed out if the only changes you make are those that she wanted they will appear suspicious and manipulative. Be the person god wants you to be.
Hang in bud and don't make any life changing decisions when you're emotional. Just learn more about who you are, learn to love that person, and be your best self. Take care my man.
I am worried that I am just distracting myself, vs healing
.
You have to detach in order to heal.
I am scared that if I see her for how she is really acting that I won't want her back.
I don't understand that line of thinking. Why worry you might not want back? I mean, if you didn't want her, then it wouldn't hurt. Right?
I don't know whether it hurts because I love her, or because I'm co-dependant. And if I get back to the point where I can be strong on my own, then I will understand that she is plaugued by compulsive disorders, that I don't have the power to change.
I am realizing now that I never had a chance to "fix" her compulsive disorders. And I need to get I the point where I have faith that something g or someone or maybe even she will heal herself.
So, I'm realizing that while I wasn't great to her, she wasn't great to me. And in the vacuum of communication I am not sure she will ever change.
And if that doesn't happen, then I am a single dad forever ....
BigMac - these are some big realisation to deal with, but I think they'll help you in the long run.
You're not responsible for her, or for fixing her. This is a road she's going to have to walk alone and figure out for herself. While you've contribute to your R issues (and good on your for recognizing that so you can change things going forward), she has too.
It's a good thing to realise that she might never change. She might, of course, but she also might not. It hurts to know this, but it gives you some freedom to start moving forward and detaching, which are powerful steps to be able to take. If she does change, great. If she doesn't, you'll still be further ahead and making a good life for yourself.
Is it bad that some part of me deep inside yearns to need her, broken and all?
And after 14 years, I have the guilt of for better or worse, sickness and health, to death do us part.
Both of got sick in different ways. I'm getting through the mental block of helping her is not helping her .....
That's your codependence talking to you. I struggle with the same thing but have been working on it in therapy. We've been talking a lot about healthy vs non-healthy attachment styles.
IC also said that as humans we need other people because we are social creatures. But when it becomes obsessive, that's when it gets unhealthy.
I know you've been reading Codependent No More. I would also recommend the daily reader by Melanie Beatty, it gives you something to focus on each day and is really helpful for me.
Thanks Thornton
I finished co-dependant no more. It's a really great book and highlights probles that I encounter. It also follows up quite well to no more mr nice guy (about men who become co-dependant after being raised by single moms.
Is this the book that you are referring too? -
http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Heart-Dail...=Melanie+BeattyYou are probably right, my co-dependance is shining through. I'm doing whatever I can do to break it. It does take time and self discipline. The biggest thing is actually realizing that I can't fix the W. That she has a sickness (just like I have mine). That she has to realize she has a problem, and have the realization that her compulsive disorders hurt her and the family. Realizing that there is nothing I can do, but stay away to have that happen is very hard.
And then, having the 2nd realization that if she doesn't realize she also needs to fix herself, that I may have to serve papers just to protect myself and my kids from the effects of her ... well .. her.
It is a horrible feeling. The feeling of begging wanting needing longing for her to say something, and the knowledge deep down that she most likely wont, and that no matter what I need to move on to heal.
a 2x4 here is when someone says something to you which may hurt or you may not want to hear, but is meant to help you get back on the right track. We all get them!
think of a 2x4 piece of wood and someone whacking you in the back of the head with it
Thanks Pilot. 2x4 upside the head.
The other thing that has been bugging me. She went to the mountains for her birthday, rented a B&B. And I'm pretty sure brought her new man there. 4 days of romance
It hurts. It really hurts. I know I need to continue with my 180's. I and read that she will see eventually (though her moving 1800 miles away makes it harder) my 180's and changes. I know that these rebound relationships are shallow and meaningless. But I just can't get it out of my head.
I can't get it out of my head that I was replaced. That I wasn't a good enough husband, that I am a bad person, and I don't feel worthy of love.
The other thing that has been bugging me. She went to the mountains for her birthday, rented a B&B. And I'm pretty sure brought her new man there. 4 days of romance
Pretty sure? You are putting images into your head that are not going to do you any good. Maybe she did, maybe she didnt. What difference does that make towards working to make a better you? Your fear of what she is doing or who she is with is keeping you from detaching. Believe me, and I cannot stress this enough....but DETACH. If you spend your time worrying about what she MAY be doing, you are going to give yourself an ulcer and you will have a much much harder time making any progress at all.
It hurts. It really hurts. I know I need to continue with my 180's. I and read that she will see eventually (though her moving 1800 miles away makes it harder) my 180's and changes. I know that these rebound relationships are shallow and meaningless. But I just can't get it out of my head.
I know it hurts. Everyone on this forum has felt the exact same pain you are feeling now. The difference is many of us have learned to DETACH. It does not mean our spouses actions do not mean anything to us anymore, it is just that we chose not to focus on them. And our days are now spent not hurting, but healing, and improving ourselves so we have the best opportunity in our future relationships (possibly even with our spouses)
I can't get it out of my head that I was replaced. That I wasn't a good enough husband, that I am a bad person, and I don't feel worthy of love.
How do you think your spouse felt for the longest time? Think about that. The pain you feel now is a condensed version of what she probably felt for a long long time. And finally, she broke. Spending your time on on these thoughts is counter productive. Forget the past. You have identified what you need to work on, so do it. You say you were not a good enough husband? Well, become one. Dont just moan about it, be it. You are a bad person (not likely)? Then become a good person. You dont feel worthy of love? Then convince yourself you are worthy of only unconditional love. I am not trying to be harsh, I am trying to get you to understand what took me forever to understand. Detaching means not spending your days dwelling on negatives. You pointed out a list of things at the end, well, do the 180s. Change those things. Nothing will happen unless you make it happen. Your W will not come back to the same old M or same old you. Make the changes, and become the person only a fool would leave. It is not a race, it is a marathon. It will take time and more patience than you ever knew you had. Start with small steps. Do not get discouraged when things do not seem to move in a positive direction right away. Look for small signs of improvement, and build on those. You can do this. You are just in a place we all came from. It is hard, and we all understand. We just want you to know it does get better when you work to make it better.
Thanks Pilot,
I am going through the pain of detaching. 2 weeks into the separation I went to this hippy commune with no internet and got detached. But then fell into the trap of social media, email, phone records, finding credit card statement, pill wrappers (laxative abuse).
I got all wrapped up in her again. Even the obsession with all the self help books, and intensive therapy was this race to make myself better before she was supposed to come back from Austin to start working on stuff.
Well, she didn't come back. So now, I'm having to fully detach. It is hard, there is a physical response that happens. And as I start to peel the onion back, and analyze whether I want vs need her, I worry that me being independent will not want her. So, then my only option in my head is that well, continue forward with the divorce.
I think I am starting to realize that there is a third option. I am not dependant on her love, but that allows both of us to find a new friendship, to maybe generate a partnership when she jumps off her crazy train / MLC / whatever she is on.
A little nugget from yesterday. I got D16 a bunch of books for her birthday (which is today I just have to fly for work) and she is still all pissy and moaney, so didn't even say thank you. But she did reply to me in the hallway later which was good.
I took my S8 to Great America with some friends (after he had his FIRST SLEEPOVER!!!). It was great to actually be there for one of his firsts, and we had a great day at the park, just being a normal dad and son. My thoughts did keep getting drawn back to W that day, but I had to remind myself to live in the present. All and all, while I am a little sunburnt, it was a good day.
An important thing happened though on the drive out. S8 asked me if he could choose what parent he lives with. That is a huge thing for me. I am a good enough dad that my Son would want to be with me vs his mother. I hate to say it, but I got a little boost from that.
So this morning, I had to get up at 4:30 to catch an early flight for work. I hugged him and told him I love him on my way out the door.
The important thing was, that I had realized last night, as I was snooping that I did have no idea what was actually happening. It could be that she went with her stoner friends and got high all weekend in the cabin (she ended up posting pictures to FB).. though it did look like there was only one bed. She could be just using him for a summer fling, or madly in love.
Either way, it is out of my control. And I have to basically act like she died (which the real loving her is dead, or at least buried so deep that it can't get out).
I have to move on. I get that now. And only then will I ever be ready to actually have a relationship with my W.
That is mindblowing for me. If only I can keep it up.
The Language of Letting Go by Melanie Beatty. Check it out.
Big day for me today on my GAL strategy. I'm traveling for work, at a leadership team offsite (two days straight).
This is the first full days that I have worked in roughly two months. I know it sounds stupid, but I haven't been able to concentrate, and have been distraught.
But, I am engaged, leading where I need to, and frankly to busy to obsess.
So far so good.
Ok, another big step. I just "unfollowed" the W on Facebook. She won't see that I unfriended her, but I won't see her in my timeline.
One step at a time.
I just downloaded it. I like how there is one devotion a day. I'll be reading it each morning.
Just got a contact from the wife. Apparently she forwarded all of our mail to her new place, and has been getting my packages.
She is going to bring them out to portland for the conference next week.
The tone was chipper, thought yet another short call. I did remember to end the call first, and tell her to call me back tomorrow when I have more time.
I did accidentally lay one small guilt on her, since me not getting my mail caused some major issues for me. But if figure that is a slip, and I should just ignore it for the next time.
Baby steps right?
yes mac..baby steps. we are on a long journey, some of us will be rewarded with our marriages returned others will be rewarded with finding ourselves and the right spouse...either way we win..keep truckin!!!
What are you doing to work on how you feel about you? You can't be loved until you love yourself.
The biggest thing I have been doing to love myself is embracing my inner child. I have been doing lots of nice things for myself, showing myself love.
I've been eating right, I've been working out. I've been reading so much (probably to many self help books). I've bought new clothes, cleaned my house. I've been going out with friends and being a good dad.
The biggest thing / challenge has been addressing codependancy. I was totally dependant on the W's moods. Detaching is starting to help me focus on me, not her. I've had some slips, but am moving forward slowly.
That's great, but this was written within the last 36 hours.
I can't get it out of my head that I was replaced. That I wasn't a good enough husband, that I am a bad person, and I don't feel worthy of love.
Still work to do on you.
There is lots of work to do on me. I find that there are good days, and there are bad days. Some days the dark moods take over. Other days I control it and I'm fine.
For example, today I confirmed through a friend that she hadn't blocked on facebook that she went to the mountains with her boyfriend and rented a cabin for 4 days. While it hurt to see that confirmed, it just was. I had a minor adrenaline rush, but then realized that there is nothing I can do about it. That she is going through her MLC. That I am hanging out in San Diego with friends, and life is not that bad for me.
So, one day at a time right?
I forgot to post, contact update.
W called during meetings today. I called her back 5 min later, and then told her I had to go back in (I ended the conversation first).
She said she had a bunch of my packages, apparently she forwarded all the mail from my house. This resulted in my water being shut off, missing important court documents, all sorts of pain. Yet another selfish action, though it is interesting that she finally came clean now.
For example, today I confirmed through a friend that she hadn't blocked on facebook that she went to the mountains with her boyfriend and rented a cabin for 4 days. While it hurt to see that confirmed, it just was. I had a minor adrenaline rush, but then realized that there is nothing I can do about it. That she is going through her MLC. That I am hanging out in San Diego with friends, and life is not that bad for me.
Why why why are you confirming anything or asking your friend to? You HAVE to DETACH! If you keep snooping or following your W's every move, you are going to ruin any chance you have at R. Just accept the fact your W is going to be with OM for now. Just accept they are going to do things that if you knew about it would hurt you. Accept it, and do absolutely nothing to confirm it.
If your friend tries to tell you something your W is doing, tell him you do not want to know. I do absolutely nothing to follow my wife and her activities. My dad made mention of something she posted on FB not long ago, and I told him I did not want to know and I did not care to know anything she is doing. This is why it was ME who blocked HER on FB.
You seem busy working on yourself, and it's good that you are addressing the co-dependency. But you made another statement I don't understand.
I worry that me being independent will not want her.
It seems to tie in with that statement you made about detaching and concerned you wouldn't want her then. Is this the co-dependency talking here?
Pilot - good point. She came up in conversation with a friend who I haven't talked to in a while. I fell into the trap. Its very hard.
Sandi - yes, that is the codependancy. It's an addiction that I am working hard to break.
Right now, I'm headed to Austin to check out neighboorhoods that I would want to live in. Even though W is there, I have not and will not contact her. I am here for me. (I will be hanging with friends though)
I realize how good I felt when I disconnected for a week about a month ago. I'm trying to get back to that.
The one hard thing is that we are both in the same industry. We are both going to be at the same conference next week, she's working in a booth and I'm on stage for one day.
Next week is going to be hard. But I will get through it. Just have to pretend she died. Because the loving part of her did. At least for now.
Big Mac. Hey bud. Tell you what, we do have a lot in common. Few tips that have been working for me-
Detach. What that means to me is coming to terms that there is NO CHANCE of an R between you and W. The goal is to make yourself healthy and strong so the next R you have is healthier. Now, is there a chance that your next R down the road is between the person you grow into and the person she has become? You never know, and DB is all about not sabotaging but instead doing what you can for that to remain one possible fork. But by the current R is dead, and there is no way to 'get her back' so as to avoid the full loss, pain, grieving, and Acceptance that comes from that death. If you try to go through the motions of detachment/growth you are only destroying the chances of a rebirthed R with her, the chances of a healthy R with anyone else, and most importantly from YOURSELF.
So, how to do it? What's helped me is ALONE time. Funny, the advice is to GAL. And I don't disagree. But for me, a fellow co-dependent, I've always run from my fear of loneliness and the discomfort of being in my own skin by keeping too busy. My therapist says I 'escape to my mind' to avoid negative feelings leering to being very busy, racing thoughts, charging towards goals, etc. I'm a month since BD and I've read so much, posted so much, journaled, etc. and that is good to a point. It has helped me learn to think differently about the situation, and definitely has helped lead to some acceptance, forgiveness for her and me, and helped me to conduct myself the best I can to avoid further destruction.
But a BIG piece of my healing has been to spend alone time. Walking (HIGHLY recommended) by myself, meditating, just getting comfortable that I am ok by myself.
Funny thing- the first month I was always posting on here, talking with friends about it, etc. and the whole time there was a super anxiety constantly in the background, like I could distract myself but always knew when the lights went off I was alone and deeply dismayed. Since I've spent more alone time that has faded. Yes, it's still there, but at a much more manageable level. It doesn't overwhelm me like it did not hurts, but I can handle it. And by spending time alone with my FEELINGS (NOT my thoughts) I have been able to find some joy again in my work, friendships, and hobbies...joy beyond distracting myself from my fear.
So please, make time to let go of thoughts and get to know who you are alone again. It may seem scary because that isn't what you want now, but you can't run from yourself. The fear that you're not good enough on your own is what contributes to the destruction of the R. If you really love yourself, her and the R you will use this opportunity to become your own best friend so you can be less needy and a better friend to her or someone else in the future.
That's just my journey though, take what applies, and know I am praying for you.
Zues,
It sounds like we have a bit in common. I tend to want to fast track every time line on earth. I keep having to go back through my calendar to see that this is all very very very new to me.
Just three weeks ago I took a trip to New York and DC. I had purchased broadway tickets in a vain attempt to do something that we both liked, she bailed on me but I ended up spending the entire trip with myself. At first it was so awkward. I did push through it, and ended up having a great time once I got over my self conscious / anxious feelings.
I just have to remind myself that three weeks ago I was re-learning what it meant to be traveling alone. Three weeks ago I was walking miles in NYC and DC, and it was very hard. I had my headphones on, isolated from the world, just being OK with being me.
Now, I'm out on the strip here. I'm chatting people up. I know it is external, but the W would always tell me how abrasive of a person I was, and how she would always need to "cover" for me.
I'm finding that people do find me interesting, and I do need to work on my socializing skills, especially with the other sex. But realizing that I can drop into a new city, make new friends outside of work, and possibly life a fulfilling life is huge for me.
When this first happened, I swear I tried out 50 hobbies at once. I was just trying to distract myself from feeling the pain of loss, but also the pain of realizing that I had lost the ability to survive as an independent person.
I had changed from a true Alpha male in my circles to well.... kind of a loser. Insecure and anxiety driven. I used to have so much confidence, so much Mojo. I used to be able to walk into any room and own it. I miss that, I want it back. That was (is) a part of me.
So, I am trying to recapture some of the past, I am trying to validate that I can be a functioning human again with or without the W. I believe that I am better then this mess of a human being I turned into. I was (am) just sick, codependant, depressed with a severely broken heart.
But over the past couple months I have been moving away from that broken person with the help of therapy, friends (both online and in person), and the strength in myself, which I had lost for so long. It's a slow process, and I relapse into stupidity as I detach for a bit, then slip back into the attachment.
This week has been about me getting back into my old life. I traveled for work, participated in directing the company for two straight days. My mind had something useful to focus on other then hobbies.
One thing that has been really weird for me, that I need to figure out is that work has always been a huge part of me. I am a leader in my industry, I speak on stage about what I do constantly. Since the breakup I've cancelled most of my speaking engagements, I've left behind something that gave me extreme confidence. I was worried about just getting lost in work and not fixing myself, but abandoning something that provides me with such confidence was not smart.
So I'm re-engaging there. I'm using my brain and the communication skills I have been building for work. I'm taking baby steps to figure out what my life is. Who I am. I still don't know who that is, but I know I don't want it to be that broken needy person.
So, now I get to hang up the computer, hop in the shower and go check out a breakfast place in a neighborhood I'm looking at (recommendation from a random person I met here in Austin). Of to GAL
Will post more, but W asked me to go to lunch. Baby steps
Sounds like you have the right idea an mindset. I can definitely relate as I fell into a trap that had me turning into a less outgoing confident person, which happened for many reasons. Just keep working on yourself and returning to your confidence, but as a new person! Sounds like you are making great strides.
You do realize how rare a July rain is here, right? This won't last.
Mac, I'm guessing you spend a lot of time on social media checking out what W is doing. I also think she knows this and intentionally puts stuff out there for you to see. How about it? True?
So are you going to go cold turkey on checking W's social media or do you have a plan to wean yourself? Any hope of detachment starts when you commit to a plan about social media. Whatever the plan, come here and post when you are weak. We'll 2x4 you.
Probably wouldn't hurt to lower your activity. I'm guessing you post often. It helps that external acceptance thing and not having to think about how you feel about yourself, right?
^^I completely agree with this. I spied on the wife with her iCloud account so I could see her text messages and all of her contacts, phone records, emails etc. This drove me insane. As soon as I stopped doing it is when things turned around for me. I stopped having to think about what she was doing all the time. This is a big part of detachment. Stop looking at your Ws facebook or whatever it is youre seeing. Leave it alone and worry about yourself right now and what you need to fix.
Hey Big Mac. I basically gave up my own thread, I'll just speak up in yours time to time. Careful, I'm co-dependent, maybe just looking to LATCH ON!!!
Here's what's been helping me. Before seeing my wife I do three things. 1) I reread Sandi's 37 rules (even though I have them memorized). 2) I remember my 180...focus on the needs of OTHERS. That means my KIDS and my stbx's need for distance. 3) I say a prayer I wrote (remember, I'm a few weeks back to God now):
Lord, I pray that you fill both STBX and my soul with your love. Give me the strength to stand TALL, living the way YOU'D have us live. Help me to shun the weakness and neediness that prevents me from trusting YOUR lead. Open our hearts and provide us the strength to live the way you'd have us, peaceful and released from our own twisted desires. I know you put me where you need me to grow in your spirit and I thank you for that. Help me resist the temptation of my will so that yours may be done. And please help guide STBX and keep her fulfilled as well.
When I do these three things I feel that weak part of me get strong. And then my first thought is "I hope STBX sees that in me" but immediately I let it go and go back to being the dad my kids need me to be. Sometimes I say this prayer throughout the day at work. Or at night. It has been helping me have faith it will be for the best.
Tonight I have been tested. I was over to see the children (Sundays/Thursdays for now) and had a very brief exchange. Then I got a text message from her about some random thing, first since DB one month ago. I replied casually, she replied back, that was it.
I know it wasn't a text that represents her missing me. If anything it was a symbolic victory for her that she's growing strong enough that she doesn't fear me or hide from me. No chance she trusts me or wants an R right now. But it is a step in the right direction of forming a FRIENDSHIP from which we can effectively coparent the kids. No matter what I believe that is in the cards and I'm grateful that we can do that. I don't know anything beyond that but it means a lot that she has the strength and character to keep me in their lives and be gracious about it. They mean so much, I feel like life is OK when I'm with them no matter what.
Of course I have dreams that one day we'll do some things with the children together, them maybe each other. But not for a long time if ever. And first I have to be a husband she deserves. She's smart and wise enough to make healthy decisions. Unfortunately a month ago that healthy decision was to leave my crazy a$$. I needed to grow up and I will. I do pray that God wants us together, but then follow it up that if he doesn't that he gives me the strength to continue to be strong in the gifts he has given me.
Sorry to hijack, just wanted to say hi and share a prayer that has been useful. Take care Big Mac!
So, I am down in the new town (where the W moved to) checking out neighborhoods, having a couple client meetings for work, and generally just trying to make this move ok with me.
W texts me this morning, asking if I am in the new town, and I reply that yes I was, that I was exploring neighborhoods. We texted back and forth for a bit about some challenges she was having at work. It seemed pretty positive, and I felt good about it. I had to get to some work done, and meet with some clients so I cut the txting short after saying that if she ever needed an unbiased ear to bend, that I am always happy to listen as she talks through it.
Tonight, (later the same day) she called asking me to lunch tomorrow. She has some packages of mine that ended up at her place when she forwarded all the mail from the house that she wants to give me.
It is baby steps, and I'm still going through the emotional roller coaster of codependancy. I am going to do some heavy meditating in the morning. I really need to focus on not worrying about the future, or the past but enjoy the present.
The present is simple, the W reached out to have lunch with me. Her contact is escalating. It may not mean anything, but it is good to have a conversation with someone who I called my best friend and soulmate for 14 years. It is an opportunity for her to see the positive side of me, to start to see how much I have been growing (I know it may not look like it on the board, but I have grown immensely over the past couple months).
I just need to accept if for what it is. It is an increase in communication. It isn't a sign of something bigger, she is probably going to be with the OP until it fizzles out, and even then there may not be an us. It may just be too late, but I need to heal myself either way.
Ben / Nettles. My rationalization is that I am very scared of a Divorce. And I have been seeing the preparations (cleaning up evidence of contact with the OP. stuff like that. I am combining that fear with co-dependancy and this need to control things. The reality is that there is not much I can control here, except for me. And I'm not doing a great job at that.
Or maybe I am doing a great job, and this is normal for a person in my position. Sometimes I don't give myself permission to feel, permission to be human. I am doing so much better then I was a month ago, and a month before that. I will continue to heal as this goes on. I must.
I came across this post on the MLC forum (I do believe my W has been in a MLC for the past 2 years of so) and then waited for an escape to become a WAW.
It is a recipe for success dealing with a MLC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...=199#Post566433Here are the parts of the recipe -
RECIPE FOR SUCCESS
IN DEALING WITH MLC
Ingredients needed:
PATIENCE-You will need a large quantity of patience. If you lack patience, you will first need to acquire it before proceeding with the recipe.
PMA-A consistent Positive Mental Attitude is necessary in dealing with the insanity of your spouses MLC. Without this ingredient, the recipe will be a failure.
FAITH-You need a strong faith, and to believe this experience is about lessons God wants you to learn. That in all crisis situations in life, is when we learn and grow the most. Put your trust in God. What ever happens will be Gods will.
PERSAVERENCE-You will need to find this special ingredient. There will be many times when you want to give up. Without this ingredient you might as well scrap the recipe and ask for a divorce. Perseverance can be found deep within yourself, you just have to look for it.
PRAYERS-You will need a daily dose of prayers. You cannot survive this journey alone, you need to ask God for help. Ask God to give you the strength to not give up and to guide you on your journey.
LISTENING SKILLS-Good listening skills are necessary for your spouse to trust you and be open with you. Do not try and defend yourself, it will just make your spouse withdraw.
LEARNING SKILLS-This recipe would not be complete without good learning skills. You need to read and understand as much as you can about MLC, it will help you in dealing with your spouse, and be less angry towards them. Knowledge will give you greater strength and make you feel more in control of your life.
EMPATHY-You will need this ingredient as you learn more about MLC, and have a better understanding of the pain and turmoil your spouse is feeling inside themselves.
COMMITMENT-Without a commitment to never, never, ever give up, you will bale out early from all the pain and agony. Remember, no pain, no gain.
FORGIVENESS-You will need to learn how to forgive your spouse, and to forgive yourself.
"Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself."
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE-You will have to discover the meaning of unconditional love, that no matter what you or your spouse has done to hurt each other, or misbehaved during your marriage, you will need to love each other and yourselves unconditionally.
LIFES LESSONS-You will need to learn life’s lessons. That throughout our lives, we grow Physically, Emotionally and Spiritually. That this MLc experience is a great opportunity for both you and your spouse to grow, and learn all that you are supposed to learn at this stage of life.
LETTING GO- You will need to finally detach or "Let Go" of your spouse. Set them free. You have no control over whether they return or not. If they decide to return, it will be because of how you have treated them and acted towards them through their MLC journey. By letting go, you will be giving your spouse the space they need to work things out themselves.
TIME-Lots of time is needed for this recipe to work. If you don't give your spouse the proper amount of time they need, you will lose them. It is their journey, they are in control of how much time they need. Don't try and rush things. It's probably a good time to toss in another handful of PATIENCE, you can never add to much to this recipe.
SENSE OF HUMOR-After you have found and mixed together all the ingredients listed above, it is time to lighten up and enjoy life. A good sense of humor will get you through the most trying times. Trust me, it doesn't get anymore trying then dealing with a spouses MLC, not even the death of someone close to you.
The greatest chance for success with this recipe is to consistently add all of the ingredients. Do not forget any one ingredient, or put to little amount into the mix. You may need to tweak the recipe for your own taste.
There is no MAGICE ingredient that will cure MLC. It requires a well thought out plan and process. There are no shortcuts.
I am going to list ingredients that have been used in past recipes for dealing with MLC. It has been shown that these ingredients do not work and should not be used.
Do not use these ingredients:
BEGGING, PLEADING, CRYING-Do not use these ingredients as they have done nothing more than push the spouse with MLC further away.
CONTROL/MANIPULATE-Use of these two ingredients will lead straight to disaster. Trying to control you spouse will them run very fast and very far away.
THREATS-Threatening your spouse with divorce will do nothing more than aggravate the situation. it will not make your spouse desire to return home.
FIXING, CHANGING, CONVINCING YOUR SPOUSE- Forget trying to fix or change your spouse, that's not your job. As far as trying to convince your spouse that what they are doing is wrong. Save your breath.
ANGER-Do not become angry towards your spouse. They will return to you greater anger. Give love and, ACT AS IF you are happy and life is good to you.
GUILT-Trying to make your spouse feel guilty about leaving you and the kids will not work. Your spouse is very self-centered at this time, they only think of what they want. They are tired of trying to take care of everyone else’s needs while neglecting their own.
ACCUSATIONS/BLAMING-Accusing your spouse or blaming them for all the problems in your relationship will do no good. They are already convinced their unhappiness in life is because their married to you. So don't go there.
DEFENDING-When your spouse tries to tell you what it is they don't like about you, don't try and defend yourself. Just sit there and listen, give them full eye contact and validate what they are saying. You don't have to agree with them, but you need to validate that what they think and feel to them is the truth. Whether it is or not, it does not matter.
As you work with the RECIPE FOR SUCCESS, you will learn more about what works and what doesn't. Do more of what works and less of what doesn't.
Why are you so focused on diagnosing W ? You need to detach.
You posted earlier that you were studying Buddhism. This is one of my favorite quotes from the Buddha. It applies to you and W.
"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path." - Buddha