FINALLY SURFACING

[Fartiltre]

Time for a new thread

I’m still standing
I feel good about me
I am turning into a great farther, an awesome friend and a much better man
I am getting aware of and in touch with my personal boundaries
I am still learning, studying and changing
I still feel the turmoil and therefore still focus on PMA
GAL and training is good


I am now 15 months into this and what a journey. Some part of me feels like I have travelled around the world twice on bare feet and some part of me feels like I have only the taken the first two small babysteps. I still have absolutely no idea where I will end up but as days and month’s passes, I am getting more and more confident that good waits around the next corner.
I know my path, but I don’t know where it will take me. I will travel it for as long as I feel good about it, and for as long as I believe it will take me to happiness.

My path is simple:
Father
Friend
Home, security, financials
Work
Triathlon
Educating me by reading and convo’s with shrink, this forum and friends
Evaluating and changing me
Looking up new people and new experiences and exploring my possibilities.
Sleep
Optimizing time

My personal life is so much richer today than prior to BD and when I try to look pass my feelings for W, BD and children I truly believe that I am a happier man now than then – still I would love to share this with W. That might just be a dream because I don’t know W anymore and she doesn’t know me – we might be able to R and we might not, so I guess I am not standing for W, but the chance that she, at some point, wants to talk R. I still feel I owe her, children and me that chance, so I still have patience.
We still communicate a lot. W seemingly still wants more communication and more meetups with the children, but I hold back because of the children and me. There is no sign of OM. She is very pleasant, nice and amicable towards me and has been this way for a long time. She has gotten a little nicer lately for some reason I don’t know about.

My Ds are hurting every day because of BD. They miss. They do not understand. They are thrown back and forth between two lives and have no control. I hurt with them. It tears me up just thinking about this. I hate, hate, hate what this have done and will do to the rest of their life. I see the impact on the children so clearly and it devastates me more and more.
If not for this I would be much happier and rope would properly have been dropped several months ago.

I still feel I have a long way to go and I am starting to enjoy the ride. I started at the bottom of the abyss as many before and after me and now I feel like I am finally surfacing. I can almost breathe freely without the scuba gear.

Looking back at the past 15 months makes me sad and at the same time I almost start to laugh. I have been blessed with so much well meant, sound and good advice in here, but in many of the cases I wasn’t even able to comprehend the advice and therefore I couldn’t live or do it. One thing won’t change and that’s my skull. It is thick and it is always spinning around.

I owe the greatest of gratitude to all the loving people that have helped me in here, but especially you Sandi2 will always be on my mind. I would not be where I am right now if not for you and this community.



Old threads here:
WAW / ILUBINILWY / CONFUSED!
WAW / ILUBINILWY / CONFUSED! (Thread II)
WAW / ILUBINILWY / CONFUSED! (Thread III)
WAW / ILUBINILWY / CONFUSED! (Thread IV)
NEW LIFE / NEW ME NEW LIFE / NEW ME - DEPARTURE
NEW LIFE / NEW ME - AIRBORNE
NEW LIFE / NEW ME – AIRBORNE II
NEW LIFE / NEW ME – AIRBORNE III
NEW LIFE / NEW ME – BREATHING

[sandi2]

I believe you have made progress down your path. And, you take it very seriously when working on yourself. I like it.

I am curious about what your therapists say about the conversation with W when she was angry over you putting things on hold to give it thought. Is this something you have always done, or started doing after BD? Sorry, I can't remember, if you've said.

I am not saying it is right or wrong. I see you being "cautious" and taking every decision about daughters very seriously. And, I can see your W's frustrations with this.

I did notice something a second time. Her impatience when she was speaking to you and your attention was on your child. Just to clarify, did your D interrupt while W was speaking, or did W interrupt what you and D was doing? It really rubs her the wrong way, doesn't it?

[Fartiltre]

Two short meet ups with W yesterday.
I took S11 and D7 to Legoland yesterday. They had a special Star Wars day. W agreed that D7 could go months ago, but I am almost certain that picking D up, doing something great and then dropping them off at Ws place afterwards will be a future no-go for me. It gives a nice experience but the possibility to share it is lost and two times changing place in one day is not good right now.
I will keep this in mind for the future when possibilities come up.

Pick up was rather quick and only one little incident. W started talking about the competition yesterday. D7s school had a for-fun-competition against another school. I didn’t attend.
W: “It was so much fun, but unfortunately they lost”
Me: short comment I can’t remember about her statement and then: “……I look forward to D7 filling me in on all of it in the car”
W: “Ooooh, then I am very sorry” (Eye rolling and upset)
Me: “No need to be – all is fine” (Calm voice)
Case was that I didn’t want W to tell D7s story and certainly not with D7 standing beside me. W once again felt I didn’t give her the attention she wanted and then she got mad, sad, sarcastic or whatever – me mindreading.
W reached out for a hug when we arrived. I remember feeling that her hand rubbing my side up and down.

We had an awesome day at Legoland. Everything was just plain great!

When setting D7 off there, were children visiting. Same children as were at my place last weekend when W dropped off here. D7 went off and played. W offered coffee, but I didn’t feel like any. We talked shortly about the day and D7 showed driver’s license, a gold coin, a Legowatch and told W about the items.
D5 was all over me again. “I love you”, “I miss you”, “Come and see this, dad”, hugs – just all of it.
Then W put nail polish on D5 and friends D3 asked if I would help her do the same, so we sat there in the sun, the four of us, doing that. I never did this before BD but now I do it – still rather poorly
Afterwards S11 and I left. We stayed for 20 min. or so.
I stayed out of hugging this time by placing myself so I wouldn’t happen. I felt her wanting to.

Great evening with S11 but the feeling that we never got closure on a great day with D7 didn’t leave me.


Sandi,
First of all – thanks for the kind words! It means a lot to me. Also know for certain that I wouldn’t feel this way if not for you! I owe you a world of gratitude!
I will keep on exploring me and comments like the one you posted motivates me to strive harder - thanks

Prior to BD I didn’t put anything on hold. I took my stand immediately and it was hard to change afterwards because of stubbornness. So this is new behavior and it is sinking in. I feel good about it! I don’t make as many wrong or rash decisions and more of my decision is based on thoughts instead of feelings. I actually often change my first thought several times before coming to a final decision.
I have only discussed it shortly with T but it will be one of the issues next time I see her (two weeks time). T has so far told me (based on examples) that what I do is the only reasonable thing to do. New situations and new decisions crave a little longer time than daily ones, and at the same time there are a lot of feelings involved in this.
I do understand Ws frustration and the “You are putting me on hold” but IMHO that’s nothing compared to making the wrong decision or a completely feeling based decision. At some point, more of this will get under my skin and decisions will come faster, but for now I like this way.

I do not recall the exact incident, but normally when I am talking to somebody and my children interrupts I tell children to wait – that goes for W and anybody else, but it also goes the other way around. The incidents I recall over the past 3-4 months and in general (with W getting upset because my attention is not on her) I have been busy with the kids and W has been interrupting.
Yes, it seems to rub her the wrong way – just as it did today when I told her that D7 would tell me in the car. And to be honest I do not see either sense or reasonability in this. What I do see is feeling based action and communication, but I do not understand the feelings or what tricks this in her.

[sandi2]

Please don't discuss it with therapist just b/c I mentioned it. I was just curious. You have discussed it with therapists and it's agreed you are being reasonable.

I don't know if you will understand or agree, but I think your W is jealous of the time and one on one attention you give to the girls. Not b/c she doesn't want you being a great father, but b/c she has given up that special place in your life and it really stings when she sees your preference of who gets top priority now.

It's kind of like how some men experience jealousy toward a new baby receiving the time and attention from his W that once was all for him. Nobody wants to admit they feel jealousy toward their own child, but it is more about them feeling the loss and seeing the child getting what they no longer have.

This was my reasoning for asking who was interrupting whom. After your explanation, I think it is what she's experiencing. The irony is she knows she chose this road and yet she doesn't like some of its rough spots.

It's not difficult to read some minds. She doesn't seem able to cover her feelings well. The whole eye rolling thing and her impatience says a lot.

[Fartiltre]

W called today and was rather upbeat.
She had talked to D7s school and they thought it sounded interesting to establish a grief-support-group. W has talked about this some time ago as something that might help D7. I have told W that I like the idea and think she should pursue it. School can’t and won’t finance it but they might lend some rooms to a T that can run the group. A possible T is one of Ws friend. (Still many things to solve and I am not going to hang my hat on this)
The talk was good.

I have now experienced the feeling of W actually starting to do something after a talk some times during the past months. It might just be me but the last times W and I have had an argument she says some rather harsh things to me and then after a short while she turns around and get totally nice or she does something completely unexpected and that is what I suggested or something close.
It seems like she disagree in the talk, then thinks and then changes her POV. She doesn’t state this but simply acts it out.
Might be me mindreading but still the feeling I have.

At the same time W still seems totally gone. At some point in the convo talking about these groups she said that the children would have to come there several times. I agreed and stated something like “this affect their lifes for the rest of them so off course”. W didn’t get angry but agreed. She was more objective than normal – I (mindread) believe that a comment like this would have taken her through the roof 6 months ago, but not today.

So only one Q remains. Why did she want to share this with me? That is off course her business but I am curious in nature and I believe she also wanted to send a message about her actually doing something about Ds hurt to me and the rest of the world.

If W actually sees, acknowledges and acts on the Ds hurt now I am glad – that will help them.


Good training session in the local triathlon club this evening. Second time I went and there’s some nice people there. I feel some good vibes about this and hopefully it will extend my circle in the local area.


Sandi,
I want to talk to T about it. Not in the perspective of W but in my own. I want to develop this new thing further, but I also want to be able to make faster decisions in time

As far as W goes you might be right. At the same time I do believe that she actually sees the changes and that makes her go “WTF didn’t he do that before” and then “To little to sad”. I think she is pi$$ed at me for not doing this earlier on and she has every right – heck I am pi$$ed myself!

[Fartiltre]

Short dialogue with W Tuesday.
I texted W and asked her two ask D7 about a birthday in the upcoming weekend. W returned an answer and then asked about karate today. She ended up calling and we had a short talk.

Wednesday I picked up Ds. So good to see them again.
I had short talk with D7 in the evening. She – once again – stated that she wishes that W and I live together, that she misses and that she is sad. I validated as much as possible and told her it was so good she shared this. We talked shortly and agreed to talk to her teacher Thursday so D7 and teacher could also have a short chat.
A little texting back and forth with W because of some mix up at Karate class.

Thursday D7 was sick (or perhaps she just wanted a day off) so no talk with teacher. I took her with me to the office and she was there for 3 hours getting spoiled. Her own desk, laptop, a Coca Cola and a nice experience. Afterwards we did some shopping and then picked up D5 early. The evening was nice. D7 seems sad every time she goes to sleep.

I texted W in the evening:
Me: “Can you pack some more clothes to D5 and D7 that I can pick up tomorrow. (D5 lacks bla bla bla and D7 bla bla bla)
D7 has been sick today and therefore not to school
Have a nice evening. We’ll talk later
F”

W: “Off course I can. Still the stomach? Say hi to both and speedy recovery to D7-mouse” (D7-mouse is a local expression – a loving nickname)

Me: “Super. Stomach is not good but better. Perhaps she cheated a little today ;-)”

W: “;-) It is also nice to have a day at home with you”

Me: “I believe she enjoyed. I took her to the office and that was big :-) Afterwards some errands and then we picked up D5 early.
Lets see about the stomach tomorrow.”

Today I saw W when I picked up the clothes. Short and nice. We talked for 3 min about Ds and clothing and W told me she was visiting family with SIL – just the two of them . I initiated a hug when I left.
SIL has been posting peculiar things on FB about how one should work on an R instead of leaving it. She is divorced herself and these posts got me thinking for a while. SIL (and MIL) still likes almost every post I put on FB.

Communication with W has been almost daily and still nice. I still find myself on the small rollercoaster. A sentence like” It is also nice to have a day at home with you” gives me hope and a no-answer on the last text, takes it away.
This is due to me mindreading and I it is easy for me to let these feelings go – or easier than earlier on

[Fartiltre]

Weekend has been so great.
Pikefishing with a friend and children Saturday. Barbecue and football at home Sunday with two other friends and their children.
It has been fantastic and that actually makes it even harder to set of the Ds today. I won’t see them for two weeks now.

I had a short talk with a dear friend, whom I haven’t seen for months, yesterday. He started out by telling how fit and good I look. Then asked how I was and then told me that this D was an example of how to do it, if it had to be done. I got a lot of sincere compliments once again. (He knows W but doesn’t see her very often)
Every time this happens I get even more motivated to continue this crusade of applying changes and new ways to myself. I also realize that I am not even close to being where I want.

I also took some smoke about women and dating from these two guys. Only well-meant and mostly for fun but at the same time I mindread they are wondering why I am not active on the market. I tell them the truth “I simply don’t have the time and if I had I still don’t feel like it.”

This morning at D7s school the teacher stopped me. She had a talk with D7 last Friday as agreed. D7 expresses that she is sad, that she misses and the stuff I already know, but she also specifically asked the teacher to tell me that she would like to spend an equal amount of time at Ws and my place.
That made me happy (as a dad) and sad (for D7s hurt).

Afterwards I dropped of Ds bags at W. SIL was there. I got a major hug from her and we talked shortly. Then W came into the room, hugged me and we talked a little.
I told her shortly about what the teacher had told me and that the teacher had sent me a message. W seemed a little surprised since she hadn’t received it. (I totally get this feeling I believe this left her with, since I have experienced feeling left out of communication regarding the Ds several times) I told W I would forward the message when I got home and did so.
The message from the teacher was short and only stated that D7 would like to spend equal time with me and W. (This was the original agreement but W changed it before she moved out and right now we are at 9/5).

3 hours later I receive an answer from W:

Hey you
I am positive, but I need to think – you know that feeling ;-)

(I love that little remark about me thinking about my decisions )
I see some possible issues rising here. First of all I am interested in knowing Ws POV and second if she actually accepts D7 request my time issues will get bigger. I have arranged my own and the children’s life around the current schedule and, all though I would like nothing more than having Ds here more of the time, it will demand changes including a possible move from countryside to city.

I will leave these thoughts until W explains her stand on these matters. I have learned that many of the problems I face tends to solve them self without me doing anything at all. In fact; me doing nothing is often at better solution than me acting….and the worrying and trying to avoid problems often expands them tremendously.
If W doesn’t initiate a convo I will do so I a week or two.

[Fartiltre]

W called this afternoon and we spoke for half an hour without any harsh words – at all! No disagreement’s, no angry tone of voice - no unpleasant things in any way.

She said she wanted to have a status-talk about how the Ds are doing and how she and I are doing.
I told that I would gladly meet and that her idea sounded good to me.
We weren’t able to find a time in our schedules the upcoming two weeks. She wanted to meet today or as quickly as possible, but my calendar is full and I didn’t offer to reschedule. She pushed a bit for this and said that she would like to meet and talk in person because she doesn’t get as angry with me in person as over the phone.
She gave up on the meeting and asked if I could talk now. I told her yes.

The talk was probably initiated by the request from D7 to her schoolteacher. W seems positive to let me have D7 more time, but has her doubts about a lot of issues. Should D5 come along, when this should be done, what if she wants to change again, why is this coming now and so on. I agreed to most and also expressed my own doubts and told W that we shouldn’t rush a decision like this. W wants to listen to Ds wishes. I told her I want the same, but also that we as parent needs to be comfortable with any decision we make.

The talk quickly evolved to a talk about what we experience with the Ds and behold: W has the exact same experiences that I have about the missing, the hurt, the days when they shift places - it all. Ds expresses the exact same things at her place as at mine.
We talked about our experiences, out thoughts, what we think initiates certain behaviors, D7s outbursts, the difference between D5 and D7 doings – we covered a lot of ground.

I kept my voice calm, low and tender throughout the talk and W did the same. This is the most I have talked in a convo with her for a long time. She did interrupt me, but excused herself every time and let me finish. She actually listened to my opinions and she didn’t get defensive as she normally does. Normally when I point Ds hurt to her decision she gets very defensive, sarcastic and angry. I did exactly this more than once during this convo and not once did she get angry. Even when I told her that I don’t see this as a temporarily issue and that this is due to D she listened without expressing anger. She believes these problems will stop and that D will grow out of the hurt – I told her that I disagreed and that divorce leaves a lifelong hole in children.

It was like talking to a different person.

After half an hour one of her clients walked in and we had to end. She wanted me to call her back in the evening but I had to tell her that I might not be able to do that, since I have an appointment and might stay the night.


I am not putting anything into this other than it was a good convo and if we are able to talk like this Ds will be better off.
I honestly believe I did very little different in this talk compared to several ones before this. W did the change and the outcome was totally different.
It felt like she had a lot more to say but we left it there and I will let it be up to her to initiate further talk.
W still seems totally gone.

[Fartiltre]

I texted W after out talk:
“Thanks for a good talk earlier. I won’t have the possibility to call you back this evening. Let’s see about tomorrow.
Kiss the girls :-)
Fartiltre”

W replied:
“You’re welcome. It’s totally alright. We can talk later. Have a nice evening”

Since then - no communication.
I will leave the initiative to continue this talk at her for now.
In a week or two I will look into it – we need to settle on something for D7


Today I went to see my shrink.
I wanted to talk about my communication and especially the part of my communication that seems to upset W. We went through it and she told me that I should simply keep on doing exactly what I am doing as long as it makes me feel good and as long as I am sure that I am not communication this way to upset W on purpose.

Afterwards we had a long and good talk about my changes and me being worried if this is just a shell. She almost found it amusing (in a good way) and then she started listing what she sees, why she sees it as real changes, what she has experienced with me during the past year and why she doesn’t see me falling back. She was very convincing and very objective so I took a major step away from this fear today.



Vacation started today I have 4 weeks leave now and that is the most I have ever had in row. The first 3 weeks the children will be here. At first S11, then all three of them and at the end I will have a week with the Ds.
Week four is for me and a friend to travel.

Next Sunday W, children and I go on a one day trip to visit a special children’s circus. We went to this last year after BD but before her moving and will do so again. Otherwise no mutual plans for the vacation.

[Fartiltre]

Still no communication with W since our talk last Wednesday. One week is a new record I believe.
This seems normal according to the pursuer/distancer thoughts – except for the point that I didn’t pursue the talk. Still I find it normal – it seems like every time W and I have a more deep talk there will be several days without any comm at all.
W is still on my mind a lot, but I am fine with it!


S11 and I are enjoying these days. We share our life’s in the best farther/son–way and we still get closer and closer every day. I love having this time and space to focus on my R with him.
Yesterday we went climbing and had a great day.
Today I had to go to examination at the hospital and at a chiropractor so S11 had some hour to himself. He enjoyed them since I didn’t interrupt his minecraft-gaming
Tomorrow we go on our own little trip. Canoe, tent and the things we need for a luxurious three day trip down a small river.

All good here!

[Mat]

I'm only at the start of my journey, and you're an inspiration. Keep it up - it's really good to read about successes!

[Fartiltre]

Back home after a jolly good time with S11.

A trip like this makes me realize – once again – how much D affects children AND parents.

W texted yesterday and asked me to call since she had news about D7 stomach-aches. I had very poor signal but texted back and told her I would call the today and asked if it was important news. Got a nice answer back stating all fine and not important.

Today I called and she asked about our trip. I told her it had been a blast, some few facts and that we were tired. Then I turned the attention towards D7. W told me that she had taken her to the doctor again and that they had a good indication of what is affecting her stomach. She gets medication for it and it seems to help. This is very minor but nice of W to inform me. I guess I would have informed her when we meet up on Sunday.
At the end of the convo we arranged Sunday when all of us goes to the Cirkus 100km of here.
I told W that we will be at her place at 8am. She then asked if we have eaten breakfast when we arrive. I told her yes and that we will have to leave immediately.

I mindread that this was an invitation all though not a direct one.

A little later I texted W and asked if she wanted to bring her car or if she plans on the train if kids and I stay in the city for an extra day. I had told her that this might happen but decided to text so she couldn’t pull the “You never told me”. She replied “I will just jump on the train :-)”

I'm only at the start of my journey, and you're an inspiration. Keep it up - it's really good to read about successes!

Thanks for the kind words Means a lot!
I do not consider myself a success yet, but time will get me and you there if we do the work. I am familiar with your thread. Keep moving forward and keep working to become the man you really want to be! I am 16 months in and some time still feel that I have not even begun

[Fartiltre]

So jolly good to see the Ds after two weeks.

Yesterday W and I spend the entire day with children together.
We met up at 8AM and W was supposed to leave around 1PM but I invited her to stay the afternoon with me and children and she accepted and stayed till around 6PM when kids and I left for our hotel.

The day was fine!
W did most the talking as usual. She started of the day by telling about all the people she and Ds visit and have over – she simply seems to be all good. She tells about her and Ds upcoming vacation and that she has invited MIL to come along because she thinks Ds will enjoy themselves when camping.
She asks about our canoe trip, what Ds and I will do for vacation, how the business is doing…all kind of stuff.
Tells me about her back problems and ask about mine. Tells me about a mutual friend that have told her how well Ds, she and I handles the situation. Tells me about her house renovations.

W also told me that she plans on visiting my brother and SIL – that came as a surprise to me. W has always hated SIL and badmouthed her a lot. Now she plans to visit them. Her choice - but took me a little time to digest. I do not talk to my brother anymore – BD wrecked that as well.

Our conversations has been natural. We had a few moments to ourselves and talked just fine in these as well.
We interact as a couple. Holding bags, sharing costs, splitting up and finding back together when kids want to do different things and so on. I took over an issue with D7 when W gave up. I asked W if she wanted my help and she said yes please.
It works splendid and oh boy it is easier to be two adults around the children.
Few touches but nothing that couldn’t be between two friends.

She texted me yesterday evening ( I didn’t see until this morning):
Hi all of you. Thanks for a lovely day at circus and planetarium. It was VERY hot inside the train I took so I really needed a bath when I got home. I hope you have fun at the hotel and that you have a great day in [city] tomorrow. Hugz mom

I answered this morning:
Likewise :-) Lovely day! Kids were so excited about the hotel. Treasurehunt in the lobby, playing room and disneychannel…. I pulled all through long and hot showers (free and plenty of water) yesterday and it was needed. They are still sleeping but will have to wake them up shortly. I have promised them ALL day at the aquarium but first a big breakfast. Talk soon. Fartiltre

I could mindread (or analyze) a lot on all of the above this truth is that the picture I get is that she is happy and gone. At the same time I remember not to trust anything.
After a day like yesterday I feel like giving up because she seems so gone and at the same time I feel like standing firmer than ever, because I can see how good this is to the children.

[Rion]

I too am just beginning down this path of separation. I am still at home with w and 2 kids but she wants me out badly. Thanks for your posts.

[LuckyLuke]

Hej Far,

More power to you - it is encouraging to read your posts!

Luke

[sandi2]

But I thought the conversations were getting better. They were getting longer and with no anger. Why do you feel like giving up now? And exactly what do you mean standing firmer than ever?

Do you feel that she simply wants you in her life as a friend and it won't progress beyond that level?

[Fartiltre]

Two weeks of vacation with S11 is unfortunately over. It has been so great! I have let XW1 know that she can anticipate me asking to have him for three weeks next year…she seemed a little reluctant but I believe it will be all right. Furthermore winter holiday is settled so if I can find the money S11 and I will go skiing.

The past week with 3 kids and I have passed so quickly. At times it is hard to be alone with them since they are some pack but it is amazing to observe me I feel so good about this that I can’t describe it!

A few interactions with W through sms about some glasses and an upcoming birthday. I haven’t spoken to her since Monday.

Next week I have the Ds here and while I look forward to some time alone with them I will miss S11 very much.

But I thought the conversations were getting better. They were getting longer and with no anger. Why do you feel like giving up now? And exactly what do you mean standing firmer than ever?
Do you feel that she simply wants you in her life as a friend and it won't progress beyond that level?

The conversations over the past weeks are better and a thought has sneaked in on me several times over the past days. It is difficult for me to describe accurately and it comes and then I dismiss it….but something seems to have changed. I can read it positive and negative in terms of R – I really don’t know.
It is not that she has opened up in any way but still something feels different….and it could be a lot of things.
IDK – it could just be me
(This is not the old me twisting and spinning my brain about everything.)

W seems more agreeable. I have experienced more than once that she didn’t get angry or use harsh words when I expected her to. (Expectations only due to history)
W seems to admit that some of my views on the children are right.
We had this half an hour long convo about our experiences and she actually asked to meet to evaluate how things are going. We haven’t done this but just her asking….
W is not liking my post on FB anymore. She has done this almost every time I have posted for a long long time, but for the last month or so – nothing. (MIL, SIL and other of Ws family and friends continues to like my post so my thought is that she un-followed (not unfriended) me because it annoys her to see all the things I can do now compared to prior to BD. Mindreading or guessing – I know – still she has expressed this in words more than once.)
We communicate less than prior to vacation. This might be due to vacation since there is nothing to coordinate these days.
We spend an entire day together and it was a nice day
Her respond to D7s request about spending more time with me.

When I look at W I see her gone and I have done this for a long time now. That’s the reason why I wrote that some part of me feel like giving up. I do not see the above as progress. Right now I see it as W digging in to stick with her decision and yes I see it as her wanting me in her life as the father of her children and perhaps a friend – but nothing further, but once again I am focusing on and mindreading W.

On the other hand I see my children hurting and I see them so happy on a day when they have us both. I would, more than anything, love to give them a family and that means to R with W. Thats the reason I wrote that I feel like standing firmer than ever but that might not work in English What I meant was that seeing the children motivates me further, adds patience, helps me keep the hope and helps me keep standing.

…so I guess, in moments, that I feel torn between giving up and digging in! Then again - I honestly wouldnt even know how to give up. I do not believe it a decision I can make - if it comes, it comes by it self.

Case is that I am NOT about to give up!
My life is good at the moment all though I still struggle with all of this, some financial and work issues and then off course the lack of time….bottom line is that my life is good and the only things I actually have influence over is the work, the financials and prioritizing my time. I feel at peace with me as a man and especially as a father. I am not entirely happy as we have discussed earlier but I am getting better and happier every day.

Makes sense?
(Sorry it became somewhat long )

Hej Far,
More power to you - it is encouraging to read your posts!
Luke

Thanks Luke – means a lot

[sandi2]

If you "gave up", what would be different? Would you be doing something you are not doing now?

[Fartiltre]

If you "gave up", what would be different? Would you be doing something you are not doing now?

Not much in physical life; if anything at all! I believe I would live my life the way I am right now.

…but I would hope for some changes internal – mindwise!

I would be able not to let my mind wonder due to hope and thereby focus more intense on the present time and task. That would definitely be good especially for my work but also in daily life.
I wouldn’t spend so much time wondering about her
The children’s hurt wouldn’t affect me in the same way since the cure would be non-existing
I wouldn’t feel hurt myself
I would be able to stop living this “double-life” where I do not speak my true feelings to many close friends.
…and then some….

…so giving up would be good for me, but – again – I simply don’t believe it is a decision I can make and then just live. Time will bring it on me if R not happens.

[T1000]

Hi F,

Just having a quick catch up. This really struck a cord with me:
Looking back at the past 15 months makes me sad and at the same time I almost start to laugh. I have been blessed with so much well meant, sound and good advice in here, but in many of the cases I wasn’t even able to comprehend the advice and therefore I couldn’t live or do it.

Looking back at it all gives a totally different perspective doesn't it? It seems easy to comprehend, at the time it's like trying read a foreign laungauge.

[Fartiltre]

Looking back at it all gives a totally different perspective doesn't it? It seems easy to comprehend, at the time it's like trying read a foreign laungauge.

It certainly does
I often think back to the words you posted about this last year. You told me to follow advice and to stick with the VETS simply because I didn’t understand. That changed a lot for me and I am still grateful for those words!
The funny part of this is that much of it hasn’t changed! I still don’t understand totally what I am facing in regards of W and possible R. I am much more at peace though. I have found my path for now and that have given me some kind of peace of mind and in the daily life. I still have a lot of work to do and my goal of being through this by the end of this year seems to be somewhat optimistic. Crazy to think that I believed it to be solved in a matter of days at BD
Hardest thing we will ever do – right?

[T1000]

We all want it fixed right now.

Hardest thing we will ever do? To a certain degree I think so.

It's a bit like a death (similar feeling of greif) but one that you can change...maybe...if you commit, work hard enough and it all works out.

[Fartiltre]

I “un followed” W on FB last night. It might seem minor but that was a big decision for me and I might change it back at some point. I found myself looking at how many likes she gets, who likes her posts and so on. Secondly her posts about Ds hurt because they remind me that we are not a family anymore so all though she posts about the Ds and I really like to see the pictures – it hurts more afterwards than it does good in the moment.


This morning I wrote her a short text about the Ds. She hasn’t spoken to them for more than a week and I know how that makes me feel when the opposite occurs so I decided to let her know that everything is good.

Me (8.50AM):
“Good morning
The girls are good :-)
They miss a little but nothing alarming and D7s peeing-problems seems to get better.
We can talk later
Fartiltre”

She called shortly after but I didn’t answer – I was busy doing something with the Ds.

W (11.10AM):
“How nice to get a text like that. Thanks
I almost called yesterday but thought it might do more bad than good…! They are missed very much here as well :-) but I also know you have some great days together. Say hi and give them lots of kisses and hugs”


Ds and I enjoyed the day. We went swimming and then visited friends. I had a good talk with friend about the vacation and he complimented me with something like “You are creating precious memories for your children” Made me feel good!
The deeper I look into this the more I realize that I am a WOA (5LL)…and I start to see the reason for me neglecting our R. This is certainly not an excuse for something just an explanation. W was very good at WOA but stopped at some point. Might be due to my actions or something else. We ended up in that evil spiral that consumes so many Rs. If you are not doing this for me – I won’t do that for you. Not in spoken words but in actions and as I know now, they count even more.
It seems like all these small compliments I get from friends and especially my children is doing me good – they make me feel better every time and they motivate me to work harder.

When we left friends and went home I texted W and asked if I should call her.

The talk lasted for about 20 min and I did most the talking. W asked about what we have been doing and I filled her in. She complimented my choices and told me that it all sounded fun and things like “That’s how a vacation should be”. Even when I told her that D7 and I have been watching the soccer world cup until past midnight she complimented my choice. I also told her about the Ds missing her, but also that it wasn’t too bad.
I told her about me going on vacation next week and she asked about location and who I am going with – she seemed somewhat nosey, but I told her in short what we will be doing.
The convo was very nice and once again I talked much more than usual and more than her.

We discussed what to do about the last week of vacation – W is certain that we agreed I should have the Ds. I am certain that we didn’t but told her that we will find a solution.

I asked her no Qs beyond the things she brought up.
She did once refer to one of my post on FB so something she does see.
She didn’t interrupt me even once (It almost feel like she attended a skill course in listening 1-2 months ago)

In a convo like this I feel/mindread several things. I feel her thinking:
WTF is happening – why didn’t he do that earlier on?
I feel her wanting to participate
I feel her wanting to talk. Not about R but about some of all the Qs she has in her head about what is happening to me. I feel her having Qs!
She seems less gone in a convo like this than 5 min. before.

I guess the above is positives but it is still just me guessing or mindreading.

So, focus back on me! I will see W on Sunday and does not expect to talk to her before this.
I want to make the Ds last days of vacation special and then I look forward to a guy’s holiday with a dear friend the week after.
We will visit a small city in Poland that was destroyed in WW2 and then rebuild – I look very much forward to this. I have visited Poland 10 times or so, but always on hunting tours and therefore I look forward to actually seeing a town. Afterwards we visit Berlin and that will be nice as well.

[Fartiltre]

Great today at beach with two friends and their children.
Bathing, playing, barbecue – it all!

When we left for home W was at friend drinking coffee with his wife. Ds were very happy to see her and they didn’t want to leave her. Especially D5 was sad and crying. Goodbye lasted for 15 min or more with tears all over.
I stayed out of it and let W handle it.

D4 was very sad in the car. D7 fell asleep quickly.

45 min later I received a text:
W:
“Are the girls ok?”

Me:
“Almost.
Will you give me a warning by text or call next time a situation like today can occur? Maybe we can avoid it entirely.
See you Sunday. Will 11AM do for you?
Have a nice evening :-)”

W:
“How is that – we could as easily have run into each other at the supermarket. I agree that it is so sad and hurtful. I didn’t stop crying until now myself :-(
11AM is fine. Say hi many times and enjoy the weekend.”

Me:
“We can’t do anything about the supermarket and likewise – I agree totally – but when I am at beach with [friend] there is a good chance that we will have coffee afterwards at his place. I assume you know we were at the beach ;-) If I had known you were at [Friends wife] having coffee I would not have stopped by. I am not mad or likewise. I just want to avoid that especially the girls but also you and me gets sad when it can be avoided. We can take it on the phone if you think it needs to be talked over.
Great about Sunday :-)”

W:
“Neither [Friends wife] or I thought about it. So if a situation like this happens again I will let you know”


D7 and I bought a tent yesterday and we will be camping in the garden tonight – that took of the tension and D5s thoughts about W.
She was speaking about missing, asking why W and I are not living together for some hours but when we rolled out the sleeping bags in the tent she got better.


I have some issues that need to be addressed:
W asked for the evaluation /how are Ds and we doing – talk
I am doubtful if I should take the next step towards this or just leave W with it

We need to talk about the days where one of us picks the Ds up and set them of later because of a special thing like Legoland or a family party. To me this is not the best at present time – It hurts them more than it does them good.

We need to long term plan and I need to confirm it in writing – I need my calendar sorted out and W (or I) seem to forget some agreements.

We need to find a solution to D7s wish about staying half time with me.


Tomorrow we stay at home and in the afternoon I have arranged a playing date for the Ds for two hours. I am going to try out the distance for the competition on august 2.
Saturday will be a strange day. Last day of vacation with the children.

[Fartiltre]

Just got home from the pool where Ds and I met up with W and the house is so empty now. I miss them already and I won’t see them for two weeks or so. It s!cks major!

I found myself feeling left a little outside today. Ds where naturally clinging to W after 2 weeks so she became the center of their attention – I had gotten used to be there and it is a nice place to be.
I will mind this for the future and not arrange something like today.

I felt a little awkward around W for the first time in a long time but it went ok. When saying goodbye I brought up the talk she has asked for and we agreed to do it soon. W did ask if I was busy (as if she wanted us to do something) but I had neighbors coming over for instruction on how to take care of my rabbits and ducks while I am away. I told W that I had plans and she simply said OK.

Now awaits an afternoon cleaning and packing and then an early bed! I leave for vacation tomorrow at 5AM.



Friend and I almost did the distance two days ago but I am killing myself. My avg. pulse is around 160 and that is too much – I will have to talk to my trainer about this.
I so much want to reach my goal of doing 1/10 of the ironman (400 meter oceanswim, 18 km bikeride and 4,2 km run) in 1h10m but it is going to be a close one. Competition is in two weeks.

The friend is the same as we were at the beach with few days ago and when I arrived his W came to me and apologized for the incident with W being there when we arrived. I told her not to worry and that things like this happen. That it was not her responsibility and that W and I had addressed it. She kept talking and totally agreed on the things I had said to W (without mentioning them). Friend did the same a little later.

Their reactions and my reaction when they addressed it made me feel good. I did right in telling W and I didn’t react as the old me. I didn’t put anybody down and I didn’t go back to the subject.

[sandi2]

I found myself feeling left a little outside today. Ds where naturally clinging to W after 2 weeks so she became the center of their attention – I had gotten used to be there and it is a nice place to be.
I will mind this for the future and not arrange something like today.

I simply do not understand your thinking here. You invited your W to be your guest at your home. It comes across as you being jealous of her getting so much attention from the children. Do you want to reconcile or not? B/c if you do, you need to get your act together about this type of attitude or thinking.

Both of you are jealous of your time with the girls, which is common when there is a separation. She is jealous of how you give undivided attention to the girls......as priority over giving her your attention when she wants it. But you are just as jealous when she is the center of their attention!

You are still wanting to cling to the "rules" applied when she first left you. Remember, you have to readjust or shift according to your stitch as it is presently. I see the main problem being you can't decide if you really want to be with W now or not. You keep saying you are not ready and need to work on yourself more. You struggle about what you see as her cake eating verses working toward a possible reconciliation.

It is great to continue working on yourself. We should never stop working to improve ourselves! But I am wondering if you are doing the same thing you did about getting married. It was never the right time b/c you thought the R needed to be better before making it official. Do you see what I am trying to explain? It's kind of like waiting until you can finacially afford to have children. You never reach that point. You waited too long about finding the perfect time to get married. Now you are waiting until you are more improved before considering reconciling. In the meantime, you waffle back & forth between keeping her closed out completely and leaving open a tiny little crack.

One major thing on her part was & is her wanting to continue family times. I believe you proved to her this was not going to happen after she left you. I think you did a fantastic job, btw. Both of you struggled and suffered through that period, before she saw she wasn't going to have it both ways. Then the communication became very strained b/c you pulled way back and was unavailable to her frequent texting, etc. That was exactly what you needed to do, at that time. Down the line, the two of you began to butt heads and her frustration was clearly seen, which was expected. So then you see a switch in how pleasant she responds in her conversations. Almost as if she may be trying to tear down a wall between you? IDK.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I believe you have done a wonderful job! I am only stating my observations. It is difficult to know where she stands. She has not given any hints, that I can see, of wanting to reconcile. I believe she stills longs for family times. I also believe she has learned you are not going to bend her way easily. She has not been able to have you as her "friend". Do you agree and feel this has been accomplished? Do you feel you need to prove anything further alone these lines? Do you believe she has learned it didn't turn out the way she thought it would when she left you?

When you enter the phase of seeing a possible R on the horizon, it is a slippery slope. I still believe the WAS needs to do some work to get the LBS back. But if the LBS wants to R, he should not intentionally place barriers in the path. That is what I meant about readjusting some of the "rules" to fit the current stitch. The goal would be for her to see a R being possible. Since your W has not shown any evidence of having OM in the picture, there would not be the problems that other couples face when there has been an A. I personally believe the WAW in an A should work harder at getting the LBH back, than maybe the WAW who has not been involved with anyone else. Your stitch is maybe the second or third story I remember reading on the board where there was no third party involved. Very unusual around here.

Don't misunderstand what i'm saying about R. You do not have to compromise your values, boundaries, or where you stand on what you would expect in the MR, or anything like that. You certainly do not want to return to old habits. You want to continue being an attractive male, in every sense. If you want to R with her, I think you will need to show more warmth or friendliness toward her. It's sometimes difficult to evaluate from reading your post b/c I know we get very small glimpses of what goes on. I'm not saying to persue her yet. I think it needs to go slowly. She may not know what she wants, either. Maybe try to be a little more agreeable with her, and don't seek to have everything your way? Maybe don't try to cut the conversations so short now? And as things warm more, maybe try once to ask her how she is or something about her personal life. Just try once to see what kind of response you get. It is a little pursuit, but also a little test to see if she responds warmly to it........but only if you are wanting to reconcile. Then, wait to see her next move. As I said, it is a slippery slope.

It is difficult for me to really know how to advise you at this point, simply b/c you are undecided about the stitch. You say she is "gone". She has probably been depressed b/c this seperation did not bring happiness. But if she is not interested and has not given any hints of wanting to be with you......then you may need to give more consideration of letting it go and just work on having a good co-parenting relationship. If you believe you can move on and not suffer the pain you experience now, perhaps that is what you need to do. It is your decision to make and I will try to support whatever you decide. In the meantime, I will be here making suggestions to think about and try.

Just sharing a thought that has been in the back of my mind for a very long time. If things were to progress and you decided you wanted to really go all the way and R with her, I think you need to do it right the second time around. Buy a ring and purpose to the lady! Take her to a romantic place and the whole deal. But not tomorrow or next week. It is just something to think about.

[Fartiltre]

I am on vacation and it is nice, but I have a hard time keeping W out of my head and I miss talking to my children. I sleep very poorly these days – maybe due to the fact that temperature is very high, exercise is very low and I have had some beers. Not many but it is the first ones in a month or so. Friend and I actually spend 7-8 hours yesterday afternoon just talking while visiting different bars and café – I cant even recall last time I did that. I was a great day.

The friend I am here with do not have any connection to W and we have had a good long talk about me, my life, the feeling of being in between places, work life and so on. I still haven’t talked about DBing to anybody. He (and others before him) tries to put me in the direction of dating and we have had a long and good talk about this. When I told him that I miss spooning and holding hands more than I miss ML he didn’t understand how that is possible. And I can understand why …still it is the truth. When couples pass me on the street holding hands, kissing, laughing and so I am glad for them but some part of me also envy them. I want what they have and I want it with W.
It is not a desperate feeling or urge – it is something that just lies there in my head and it won’t go away. Besides the envy it is a nice feeling.

We have also talked a lot about my career and the conclusion right now is that I might need to change my career path. The more I have looked into this over the past months – the more I believe that this is also something that needs to be looked into. I am a partner in 4 small/medium businesses and one of them needs to go. Problem is that this one is providing my main income and I fear that income will drop. If I were by myself that would be no problem but I have a responsibility towards my children. It is my plan to have a talk with my two partners about this next week.

Due to Sandi’s last post to me, talks with my friend and a billion thoughts I am more sure than ever – I stand for my M! At the same time I also stand for me and my children – for the life we will share in the years to come with or without W. I want it to be fantastic!


Sandi,
Thanks for your long post. I have read it several times a day since you posted it and I have given your words a lot of thoughts. I hope this answer and the above makes sense and I hope you can read between the lines that this is not the old headspinning and skullcracking me. I feel really calm and at peace all though W and my life in general is very much in my thoughts. I am not happy happy happy as we have discussed earlier on but I am at a totally different place than half a year ago.

I still want R more than anything! I have NO doubts about that!
I still stand and I am not about to give up. I can’t and won’t do it.
You are right about me having to let go at some point but for now I still stand.

W seems gone – like she has all the way. When all of this started I interpreted every kind thing she did (wearing my jewels, hugging, taking my hand on a walk) as positives towards her being in doubts about her decision. I learned that was not the case. Then I trained myself (with a lot of help from you and others) not to mind or focus on these. I went LRT, changed my state of mind and stopped paying attention to Ws doings and sayings. She still does it all but I have learned not to see them as postives. In fact I skipped the word positives totally and called them non-negatives.
Truth is that I can see a lot of possible positives but I do not allow myself to believe in them. I have been sticking with the fact that she has not expressed any (to me) clear sign of wanting to R. I am “stuck” in the rules and simply applying patience and time.
I fear believing in possible R. I hope and pray for it, but I have left the initiative with W. My mind is set on that she need to initiate something and that needs to change. I need to look at W as I would look at any other women I would like to have in my life but I need to be careful

W seems to be happy. That is what she shows me and tells me but I also believe there is much more to it. Her picture of how this was supposed to be has been torn apart. She wanted weekly family dinners, mutual Christmas, us to be friends, us to live as neighbors so the kids could run from one to the other and so much more - and none of this has happened. She got very angry at first but I actually think she sees the reasonable in this today. So…
Yes, I believe that she knows that we can’t be friends and that I won’t bend easily
No, I don’t need to prove anything further
Yes, I believe she has leaned that things won’t be the way she wanted them to

At the same time I believe that she still wants family-time very badly….more than anything. Some part of me still sees/feels a lot of this as her “acting as if” everything is just fine. I have felt this way for a long time but again haven’t allowed myself to dwell on it due to it being mindreading. She shows me only happiness except from the episodes where Ds are hurting – and I do the same towards her. Truth is that I have other feelings than happiness and she might have as well. I can only mindread or analyse and I think you are pretty close to my observations and thoughts. I get no clues from friends or relatives and neither does she. She could be in the same state of mind as I am or the totally opposite.
It feels like there is a lot of unsaid words just below the surface of our interactions and that we both hold back. We have scratched them at one or two calls but it is like none of us wants to take the next step and really talk. This has happened before back when we lived together – she was sometimes afraid to take up an issue with me so she could sometimes go for a long time before she actually did it. (I have looked into this. I understand why she felt that way!) In some strange way it feels like the time just before BD. Something is not the way it is supposed to be between us. The major difference is that I actually believe I am on the right path. I certainly wasn’t at that time!

When W is in my thoughts I go from positive to negative. I can wake up in the morning and think R is possible and then go to be in the evening and think it is not.

I am not saying she wants to R but I do feel that she wants to talk. Some part of me believes that is the reason for her to ask for the evaluation-talk.
I brought up the talk last week and hopes we will be able to find a suitable time within the next month. I am on vacation this week and next week she is.
I will ask to her wellbeing (very careful and only once) when I get the chance.



I believe that you are right about me. “It is never the right time” unfortunately describes me very well. I have given this a lot of thoughts and it seems like I rarely dwell on the past – it seems like I live in the future. I can understand if this comes out a little odd here with me being so sad about the past but case is that I have had my focus on the future all the way. Focus on me getting better tomorrow; focus on possible R tomorrow and so on! I am getting better at living in the present but I have a long way to go!
I do feel ready for R. I will keep on working on me, but I am ready for W if she wants me! I believe I have a chance, but I don’t know how to grasp it yet!
I understand the twisting of the 37 you mention and have mentioned before – unfortunately it seems to take time for me to adjust my habits of how I interact with W. (I wish 37 there were 37 new rules to apply now – strict rules that my male lizard brain can comprehend)
We are certainly getting better along now than some months ago and I think it is time for me to increase kindness, length of talks and so on a little further and then just observe – just as you said. It is a long time since I got the last harsh words or eyerolling from her all though she seemed a little disappointed Sunday because I had plans. (Just the feeling I got)
Again I can read this both ways. It could be a tiny crack in the wall or it could simply be her settling in – IDK!

The issue about the ring you mention has been in my mind for a long time – IF I ever get the chance I will do it right On the knee, fireworks…it all ….but not tomorrow


In regards of the feeling left out or me being jealous I get your point. I arranged the meet up at the public pool because I believed it was a good way for the Ds to change place. It was – they had a great time. Still I got this feeling – I don’t want it. I felt hurt! I believe this to be totally natural but instead of running away from it as I did (in my post) I might just have to face it.

It is difficult for me to really know how to advise you at this point, simply b/c you are undecided about the stitch.

Please look at me as being decided! I am! I stand! I still want to R!


At last thank you for your kind words about me having done a good job – means a lot!

Time is 8AM here….now I will go for a run

[Fartiltre]

Vacation I Poland is over!
I am so positively surprised about this country. I have been here many times hunting but never as a tourist and I am coming back – Poland is simply fantastic.

Back home the house feels so empty but I guess that’s completely natural. From three weeks with the kids and then 6 days in Poland with a dear friend to an empty and silent house in the countryside. Some shift I will eat and relax a bit now and then I have a busy day tomorrow!

Otherwise not that much going on!
W and sit is still on my mind as the first thing in the morning and the last thing in the evening. There has been no contact since last Sunday.
I miss my children and think about them all the time.

Monday I start working again and I need some changes there. I will meet up with my partners as soon as possible and discuss my situation.

[Fartiltre]

Partners is on vacation this week so talk won’t be until next week

I have started thinking about really turning everything upside down in my life.
Change my financials so I can live with less income.
Move to a cheaper house
Lower my expectations to what I need in daily life
….and so on…all with the end goal of getting a less busy life and having more time for me and my children

I want more time for me, more time for my children and more time to enjoy life in general. That has always gone hand in hand with financials to me, but maybe I can turn this around. I want less stress and responsibility in my work as well. It will be some task and it will take a looong time due to the things that will have to be accomplished to make this happen. So far it is only a thought and it might stay that way for some time or always since I still need to secure an income and I need a very flexible job.
I have had few talks about the possibilities with a friend that might be able to help me, but I will hold my horses and think these matters through over the months to come.
(Compared to time prior to BD I work half the time now so it has already changed a lot and that feels good)


I haven’t heard anything from W for nearly two weeks. Some part of me thought/hoped (not expected and therefore no disappointment) that she would text me a short status since she got so pleased with the one I send her during my vacation time with the children….but none so far.
Otherwise nothing new – W and sit is still on my mind and I miss the children like HE77!

Tomorrow is the BIG day. I started training half a year ago after doing absolute nothing for 15-20 years and tomorrow is trial-date. The goal is 1/10 of an ironman in 1h10m….it is major to me and I look forward to the day. I want to accomplish this so bad!

I have done a lot of GAL this week. Actually so much that I turned an invite down yesterday. Visited friend and did a little training Tuesday. Friends W is best friend with W and for the first time ever she actually invited herself, Friend and their children to my place. She was nicer than ever towards me. Made me feel good!

The weekend is full of GAL as well.

[hotwheelsaust]

Wishing you the best F for the 1/10 Ironman. You can do it, you know you can. :-)

[lovethehub]

hey F!

I have to agree with Sandi2. I think it is time you start to bend a little toward your w. It was my first thought when your W wanted to talk a few weeks ago and you mentioned that you didn't offer to reschedule things (if you could have, it might not have been a bad idea). Even though I haven't posted in a while (nursing school was a ton of work!) I occasionally caught up on your posts and I find myself thinking that if I were your W, I would not have the impression you had any interest in R. There were also times when friends were asking if you were dating, how you felt about your W, etc. that I wondered if she was trying to temperature check through them.

It seems to me your W tries to put invitations out there to you frequently and you can't say for sure if they are for her to have family time, or time with you, because you typically decline. Start leaving some room in your schedule to accept some of these invitations when you pick up/drop off the girls.

I haven’t heard anything from W for nearly two weeks. Some part of me thought/hoped (not expected and therefore no disappointment) that she would text me a short status since she got so pleased with the one I send her during my vacation time with the children….but none so far.
Otherwise nothing new – W and sit is still on my mind and I miss the children like HE77!

Next time, send her a text and don't always start off with something about the girls. Maybe just a "Hi, how are you?"

What comes through in your posts is that you are very closed off to your W and any attempt at her reaching out to you. It's time to start changing that a little and see where it takes you!

[Fartiltre]

I DID IT
Saturday I completed my triathlon in 1.08.35 and thereby below the 1.10 I had as a goal.
I still feel so good about this and now I want to do better.

The weekend has been full of GAL.
The run Saturday, barbecue at friends in the afternoon, concert with other friends Saturday night and then some bars until late. Chilled all Sunday with a friend.
Splendid weekend.

At the barbecue (Friend M’ed to Ws friend) my friends wife asked me if I would take care of their plants and Ginny pig while they are away for some days. Friends W has gotten so much nicer towards me during the past month or so.
Little things like this makes me feel good!

W called Sunday morning. She talked about their vacation, what they had been doing and not doing. Good talk and then D5 came to the phone. So nice to talk to her!
Afterwards W and I tried to plan this week and we ended up in an argument. W had put in her calendar that Ds would be with me this week – I didn’t and I have no memory of making this arrangement. (We agreed on getting back to this matter IMO) When I told W this she got mad “It is in my calendar”, “Why would it be in my calendar if we didn’t agree on it” and so on. I tried very calmly to explain her that I couldn’t explain that and then she set totally off. “It is always about you being right”, “I have the Ds 50% of vacation and so do you”, “I have scheduled business meetings” and so on. I had no chance of getting through, she kept interrupting and was just plain angry – so I ended the call and told her I would get back to her later.
I did in the evening and we settled things with the Ds. I also told her that we need to have a talk soon, that I do not understand why she gets so angry with me and that I mean her no bad or harm, that our planning is not good enough and that talks like the one previously ruins good time. All said very calmly and she agreed to this.

I have been thinking a lot about her sayings but can’t seem to find my way through this. She is right about (old) me wanting to be right but this seems to come from somewhere else. She gets so angry and it makes it almost impossible to have a normal convo when she gets like this.
Sometimes I think that she gets this way because of my changes. I mindread that she feels anger towards me because I didn’t do this before, suddenly I can do it all, only seeing me happy and so on.

I will pick up the Ds later today and am really looking forward to seeing them


LTH,
As always thank you for your advice and support!
I fully agree with you and Sandi!

W is now back from vacation and I will have the talk with her as soon as possible. Hopefully that will bring me a little clarification.
I will follow your advice about trying to open up a little and keeping my schedule free on the “right” days so I can actually accept an invite.

I hope you are doing good in all regards and that your R, work, studies and busy life in general brings you good times.
Take care

[Fartiltre]

I picked up the girls yesterday and it was so nice to see them again

I stayed at Ws place for around an hour or so. Played with the children and talked to W about their vacation. She asked about my trip to Poland and I told her. It was good time – all calm and nice.
She hugged me when we left.

She didn’t extend any invites and seemed rather busy. She talked about being glad that holiday is over. She wants to start working again so she can make some money. (She is self-employed)

Earlier on I wrote about not receiving a text from W about all being good. Today I emptied my mailbox and there were two holiday postcards. One from each of the Ds. They both arrived last week but I don’t look in the mailbox that often.


I also had a short talk with my partners. In short I told them about my thoughts about leaving the business, me not being happy about my tasks, me not feeling focused – just all of it. I told them that I didn’t need to talk right now but that I wanted to tell them about my thoughts to give them a chance to think about theirs. It felt good getting this of my chest and hopefully we will get to talk more deeply about this in a week or two.

Also found out that a couple of neighbors are splitting up. I feel sad for them. I have talked with both over the past 8-10 months about this but he seems so stubborn. He doesn’t have a clue about why she is leaving – only due to him not looking. They both blame the other and they do not have the capability of looking inwards. I have tried my best to open his eyes but he won’t.
She packed her stuff while he was away and left the keys to him – ouch! I will support them both the best I can.

[sandi2]

I DID IT
Saturday I completed my triathlon in 1.08.35 and thereby below the 1.10 I had as a goal.
I still feel so good about this and now I want to do better.

WOW! Congratulations!

[Fartiltre]

Nice days with the Ds. S10 joined us yesterday and that was great!

I have had a good talk with one of my partners yesterday and I will talk to the other one tomorrow. Right now it seems like these two great guys will accept that I have special needs due to the time available in my life…if so I will be a happy man. I will also do my best not to let them down again – I need to get more focused on my work!
I have no expectations about this but some part of me hopes it will turn out this way. That will buy me some time to make the decisions needed.

During the talk yesterday I told my partner (and close friend) that I am not the work-focused guy I used to be and that I will never be the old working me again. He smiled and told me that he knows.



Short text convo with W this morning. We had agreed that I would set the Ds off at her place around 16.00 today but I have to go for a drive earlier and could save 40 km so I texted:

Me: “Goodmorning :-)
I have an errand in [city] today at 14. Could it fit you if I set off the girls around 13.30”
W: “hmmmm I counted on 16 but just come by with them. I am working”
Me: “Can easily wait….get some work done then I will be there at 16”
W: “Perfect”

It is “funny” how this past 1½y have changed the way I look at convo’s and the way I communicate. W’s first answer contains IMO some annoyment (mindreading) but instead of just saying no she goes the other way around this and hopes for me to withdraw my request by placing some blame or bad conscience.
THAT is so much me 1½y ago and today I see it all around.
Some part of me wants to tell her to just say no and tell her about what I have learned. I won’t but I might start doing exactly that with friends.


Tonight I will take S11 to the movies and Saturday I have 20-25 guys over for a summerparty. Jokes, Beers, clay target shooting (before the beers) and just guys fooling around. Monday is first school day after the holiday and then work and a normal daily life waits.

[Eatsma]

Well done on the triathlon and you sound like you're doing great.

[Fartiltre]

Ds have been missing W a lot. I have had a short talk with D7 about this. I mostly just validate her feelings but also asked her this time about her feelings about the missing in general and she still wants more time at my place. She wants it to be 50/50.
D5 expresses her missing often and out in the open. That makes it so much easier. D7 just pulls back and gets sad.

Time with the children has been great.

I sat the Ds off around 16.00 yesterday.
Short talk with W about Monday when D5 start in the new kindergarten. W invited me over for breakfast and I accepted that (with a smile). Afterwards we will take D7 to school and the D5 to the kindergarten.

S11 and I went to the movies and had a splendid evening. This morning I sat him off at XW1 and witnessed her giving him a hard time because he didn’t want breakfast.
I see my own old patterns so many places these days!

MLP, Sandi
Thanks for your kind words about the tri

[Fartiltre]

Weekend is over and what a weekend
Friend over Friday – we talked and enjoyed ourselves until late. Saturday I had 20 guys over for a long day and night. Everything went great. Sunday I cleaned the house and surroundings, did an hour of exercise and then crashed on the sofa.

Today I went to Ws place to have breakfast before taking the girls to the first day at school/kindergarten after the holiday. It went just fine. Good talk and good time.
I overheard D7 talking about a family birthday at MIL. W texted me about this about a month ago but I haven’t replied since we haven’t talked. (Ws wish is that I wait on things like this)
As I understood D7 she said they were going but Ds are at my place. So I called W and we had a talk about this. W actually agreed that when the Ds are at one place it is important that we do not pick them up and take them back and forth. That’s totally new – normally me saying no to things like this have made her angry. She might have reacted this way because she didn’t plan on taking the Ds anyway but in the general talk about this she agreed to my POV. I have experienced this more than once during the past 2,3 or 4 months. That is W changing her views from her originally to one closer to mine.
At the end of the convo she reminded me that we need to have the evaluation talk soon and I believe it will be next week.


Two small incidents for my journal.
MIL bought a present for S11 when she was on vacation with W and Ds

Last time when I sat the Ds off at Ws place W called afterwards and asked about a certain CD that D7 likes. I told her and said something like “You will love it!”. It is NOT Ws type of music. That ended up with a little humorous texting.

[Fartiltre]

Had a few texts back and forth with W the past two days and we settled on meeting up Thursday next week in the morning for the evaluation-talk. Texting has been nice.

Yesterday I received a text from W:
“I have just talked with the Karate-club. Due to changes at the school they can’t have the gymhall as usual. Therefore training is moved to Wednesday from 17:30-19:00 (Friday from 18:30-19:30) Have a nice day :)”

This gives me a major challenge due to:
Wednesday is shifting day and Ds and I haven’t seen each other for 9 days. Ds are not themselves on these days. Therefore I have normally kept these days quiet and without any stress.
The timing is wrong. Karate is a 20 min. drive. We won’t be home until 19:30 and getting home before practice is not an option due to work and driving time.

I replied “Damn it!” immediately and a little later:
“Karate won’t work for me. We can take it on the phone if you want but D7 needs to know that she won’t go tomorrow. I will take the general talk about this with her”

W: “Yes, and [D7 friend] also needs to know. It is something they have together”

Then I tried to call W but line was busy.

Me: “Yes…I have tried to call you”
W: “I am on the phone myself”
Me: “Give me a call when you are free”

We had a talk for 15 min! The tone was mostly calm but W seemed angry and accusing.

I (once again) told W about my issues with Wednesday and also the timing on this one. We have been over this before on several occasions. She blamed me and told me that I never wanted to take the children to anything. This time I asked her why she says things like this since I do not recall stating this and that I have taken Ds to many things. I also had to state my boundaries once again – I need to get firmer on these. She then pulled out some old examples from S11 and I told her that I understand her POV. (I can see where this comes from and to some extend I agree with Ws POV – I also find that her “truth” has been twisted a lot)
W wanted me to call D7s friend about the cancellation tomorrow and I said I couldn’t see any reason for that.
I kept my voice calm through the entire talk – W almost did the same.
I felt her being gone through the entire convo. I try hard to see her POVs on these and other matters but at the same time I feel blamed and like she will never try to understand mine. It feels like she don’t want to accept that D has a major effect on children’s life. I have discussed my boundaries with mutual friends and shrink and they seem to understand my POV.
I will have these talks once again to make sure I am not on a wrong track.

After the convo I realized that off course D7s friend should have a call, so I called back W and told her I was wrong and that I would handle it. At the same time I suggested that we look for another activity that the children can go to. W liked it and we agreed upon me contacting D7s friend’s parents.

I had a short talk with D7s friend’s mother. She understood me but also said that she felt sorry for the children. I told her I feel the same way and then we agreed to look for something else.

I called W back afterwards and told her about the talk and that I would keep her informed.

The Friends mother told me they would give me a call in the evening - but they didn’t.

[Fartiltre]

I texted W yesterday:
“I didn’t hear anything from [D7s friends] parents yesterday but I will give them a call this evening. I will let you know when I hear something.
I will pick up the bag around 15:30

I have thought a lot about the Wednesdays and I am still convinced it is in the Ds best interest to keep these days free. Therefore no activities! I will have the general talk with D7 one of the days.

Talk soon :-)
Fartiltre”

W: “Fine. I will be home when you pick up the bag”

When I came to her place I changed my “normal” routine so I went in and initiated a convo. We ended up talking about the Ds for 15 min. The talk was pleasant. W cried at some point because she is having a hard time setting D5 off at kindergarten. D5 is talking about missing and so. W is very emotional and cries easily. Nothing special about it – just a nice talk.
I did prepare for W to be mad about my decision but it wasn’t mentioned with a single word.
W also brought up that D7 still asks for more time with me and I told her that we will go over this issue next Thursday when we meet up.

So good to see the Ds again and today I picked up S11 as well. My little family is back together

I have had a talk with the friends parents and they totally understood my POV. We are looking for another activity for the children now. Hopefully we can find one!

I had a FANTASTIC talk with my partners today. About me, the work I do, my missing focus, my life….a lot. They are astonished about the changes they see in me, the way I handle my private life….it all - but they are not pleased with my focus at work. I can certainly understand why!
They want to keep me in so they offered me to stay if I wanted to, to keep my salary but also to cut my hours. I offered them to cut down my number of shares and to give them a bargain when they had stated their intentions and furthermore said that I will work on my work-focus with the same motivation as I have worked on private-me for the last year. I also told them that I will never get back to old me, that I can’t and won’t deliver the hours, that my children will always be my first priority. I stated some boundaries….it was a good and honest R-talk between partners and friends.
Bottomline: I get to keep my salary but take a major cut in hours….and I get to do it with a good conscience. At the same time I will work hard on my work-focus when there!
If I succeed in this, it will add a major pile of happiness to my life in general - so I will do the work!

[Fartiltre]

Today might have been my most focused and efficient day at work this year – unfortunately it contained a lot of issues with a major and very important client. Hopefully I will be able to solve this next week.

This afternoon W texted
“Hi. I just wanted to hear how the rest of the girls first week at school/kindergarten went. Have a nice weekend.”

Instead of just texting back as I have done for the last year or so, I called her and we had a very good talk about the Ds first week and some of our observations in general. W shared some issues she has with MIL about MIL saying things to the Ds that W doesn’t like. We talked about D5s need to be with W and D7s wish to be more at my place.
W asked about the karate and said that if D7 is to be more at my place maybe we should wait to cancel the karate since the shifting days might change soon.
We talked about missing alone-time with the children and a little about not having the time to focus on D7s math….just all kind of small issues. The talk was pleasant, nice, without interruptions – just two adult communicating in a pleasant way.
Felt good – talk lasted half an hour.

We didn’t agree to anything but to continue the talk next Thursday. I told W that I have taken the day of so I have the time necessary.

My children are here for the weekend – yipeee
Next week I have a session at shrink, the meet up with W, session at personal trainer about my training goals for the year to come, bikeride with a good friend, planned a session at the local tri-club and hopefully I can work more on my work-focus.
Some week!

I feel good these days! I feel good!

[Ss06]

Nice!!! I can feel your PMA through your words!

a tri-club huh? you're a triathlete? I'm a swimmer. There aren't many of us.

[sandi2]

I (once again) told W about my issues with Wednesday and also the timing on this one. We have been over this before on several occasions. She blamed me and told me that I never wanted to take the children to anything. This time I asked her why she says things like this since I do not recall stating this and that I have taken Ds to many things. I also had to state my boundaries once again – I need to get firmer on these

How did you word the boundary statement?

Was it Karate that your D enjoyed so much, or was it just another activity your W had enrolled her in? The reason I asked both of these questions is that you are wanting W to realize the affects of the divorce in the children, and at the same time it appears they are being yanked around from activity to activity b/c you want their Wednesdays to be free. (When you said you parents would have to find another activity for the kids to do, did you mean on Wednesdays?).

Now I am not suggesting you break your personal boundaries, but remember they are to protect you.....and not intended for the purposes of controlling her. And I am just needing a little refreshing about which boundary you were referring to, and why or how will you be "firmer"? Just a little confused how this relates to the Wednesday activities. However, I do remember the conversation about her not scheduling activities for the girls when she knows it will be on "your time" with them.

When you reacted with the "damn it" text, did she know you were not blaming her for the school rescheduling the Karate classes? Or did misunderstand and she was switching days b/c the school gym wasn't open on the usual days for Karate?

I really said all of that to tell you I am happy to hear that things seem to continue on a positive note between you and W. Where I usually have to remind the LBHS to be careful about certain issues for them, I feel that I need to remind you how you may need to make adjustments from time to time....according to the stage of the R. Make sense? That why I asked you in other posts if you really wanted to reconcile or not. Perhaps this is a completely different topic than what you are referencing about getting firmer with your boundary. I just wasn't sure.

[Fartiltre]

Sunday morning 5AM.
Woke up in the tent in the garden with the children around me and my ducks (Christmas dinner) drinking dew on the canvas – beautiful morning. Rainy but beautiful.

I find myself thinking a lot about the workissues from Friday and that is good – means motivation and focus is there!
Most of all I find myself thinking about the talk I will have with W next Thursday.

Yesterday was a splendid day. Children and I went to a play-land and fooled around for some hours and afterwards we visited neighbors. The W is back home. That’s good!


Sandi,

How did you word the boundary statement?

I do not recall my actual words but I remember feeling very much in doubt if this boundary is right. After the convo I called a friend (Married to one of Ws BFF) who is a educated and skillfull NLP coach and asked if he would help me sort out my thoughts.
I told him that I felt in doubt, then I went through the logistics of the Wednesday with karate and told him about my experiences with the Ds hurting on shifting days. It took 5 min and he replied something like: I do not hear any doubt in you and all though I never give my personal opinion when coaching, this time I will say to you that you shouldn’t. Sometimes parent’s have to make hard decisions to do what is best for their children

That did it for me so after this I texted W about the Wednesdays.

This boundary is NOT to protect me in anyway – it is to protect the Ds. They need this day off. They need to get settled in at my place. This might change with time but for now it stands – I have told W this with exactly these words several times.
It seems like (this is mindreading) that when the boundary is stated on a time where it actually influences something at hand W gets upset but then she comes to terms with it in a week or two. Same this time – at first she gets angry but then she either just lives with it or gives it a thought and then finds it reasonable. IDK!

Was it Karate that your D enjoyed so much, or was it just another activity your W had enrolled her in? The reason I asked both of these questions is that you are wanting W to realize the affects of the divorce in the children, and at the same time it appears they are being yanked around from activity to activity b/c you want their Wednesdays to be free..

D7 started at music in spring (on Thursdays) but wanted to change just before holiday and do karate with a friend. W was against this – I thought it to be great after I heard the times. She is not being yanked around due to the Wednesday-boundary
This is not due to me wanting W to realize the affects – this is what is best for the children at the moment. Remember that the (hard) logistics on a Wednesday with karate will hit D7 AND D5 since I will have to take D5 along.

When you said you parents would have to find another activity for the kids to do, did you mean on Wednesdays?

No (off course not ) - I meant for us to find another activity and hopefully something like Karate but on another day than Wednesday.

Now I am not suggesting you break your personal boundaries, but remember they are to protect you.....and not intended for the purposes of controlling her. And I am just needing a little refreshing about which boundary you were referring to, and why or how will you be "firmer"?

I do remember and this is exactly why I get the doubts – I fear that some little devil inside me has put this boundary to control W and convinced me that it is to protect my children (hopes this comes out understandable). That’s why I posted the boundary here in the spring to get advice, I had a long talk with my shrink and I have discussed it with friend earlier as well. This little devil has been there all the way through since BD so this feeling is familiar.
The boundary is rather simple “I will ensure that wednesdays (or shifting day) has to be a happy, stress-free day/evening for the Ds”.
The “firmer” much applies to me. I get in doubts when W challenges me with things like “You never wanted to take children to anything” or “Can’t you see how much you will hurt D7”. I need to believe in this simple boundary and then choose a time (every quarter, half-year or likewise) to evaluate it, instead of getting doubts whenever it is challenged.
Therefore the firmer also applies to when I communicate this boundary to W. I simply need to communicate this as I did in the text after the talk with my friend.

Yes, I also have a boundary of W not making decision on my time with the children without enrolling me. She is more than welcome to make suggestions but no decisions – this boundary came when she singlehanded decided (and informed D7) that she should take music lessons on my time.

When you reacted with the "damn it" text, did she know you were not blaming her for the school rescheduling the Karate classes? Or did misunderstand and she was switching days b/c the school gym wasn't open on the usual days for Karate?

As I have interpreted her answers and sayings (and I am pretty sure I am right) she understood it as intended – that there is NO blame towards her.

I really said all of that to tell you I am happy to hear that things seem to continue on a positive note between you and W.

Means a lot, Sandi!
I have absolutely no idea where W is standing at the moment. She is high PMA whenever I see her, painting her house, seeing friends and just seem to be doing good. She seems to be happy!

Where I usually have to remind the LBHS to be careful about certain issues for them, I feel that I need to remind you how you may need to make adjustments from time to time....according to the stage of the R. Make sense? That why I asked you in other posts if you really wanted to reconcile or not. Perhaps this is a completely different topic than what you are referencing about getting firmer with your boundary. I just wasn't sure.

As you already know I am a slow learner It takes time for me to understand the terms and the issues but I feel that I do understand the “tweaking on the 37” and the “bending a little towards W” now and furthermore that I have started to do it. I still have to remember myself to do this before answering a text or a call or before entering her house and likewise, but I believe I am doing it.
I do understand why you (and others) asked if I really wanted R. Case is that I know now that, in time, I will be perfectly happy without W – I will get there in time! That shines through in my posts here but certainly also when talking to friends or W. I am not in anyway sure if W knows I want to try to R.
I am at a place where I am not certain I want R simply because I don’t know W anymore, I don’t know if we match, I don’t know how she would want to live our life together – I don’t know anything for certain but this:
I want to give us the chance to R because I believe there is a chance it might work out and because I am 100% that if it works out it will be great for the two of us and especially for the children.
W and I would have to start all over again by falling in love. I feel like it is W or nobody at the moment. Either we R or I stay single for a long time - not because of her but because I am feeling good being single.

Does this make any sense at all?
Some of the topics in here are hard for me to discuss in english

Do you have any advice for me on the meet-up and evaluation talk that is scheduled with W next Thursday?

Thanks Sandi - as always I cherish value your words and thoughts highly


Ss06,

Nice!!! I can feel your PMA through your words!

a tri-club huh? you're a triathlete? I'm a swimmer. There aren't many of us.

Thanks sS06. PMA is definitely good these days – but as we all know it comes and goes. This is not linear but I am feeling better and better We all will in time no matter what happens – take the time needed and DBing will work its job!

I took up Tri after NewYear and I am very happy with it. It’s challenging and it gives me the exercise. Swimming is still not that good but it is on the schedule through winter where the bike will be resting

[Fartiltre]

Texted a little back and forth this morning with W about a missing sleeping bag. Nothing to it – all amicable and nice.

W called later and asked if I had the talk with D7 about karate Wednesday. I told that I haven’t due to W and me agreeing for me to wait until after our talk Thursday this week.
Then she started suggesting new solutions and telling me – once again – that it is not fair that the children can’t have any activities.
I stood my ground this time and told her very calm that I do not want to have this discussion once more over the phone. I told her that if she wants it we can take it face to face Thursday.

She still kept coming. Told me how hard it will be to tell D7. How sad this is. How much it hurts herself and the Ds….and so on! I told her that I understand her thoughts and that I share many of them.

W then tried to start a talk about changing the shifting days and asked about my thoughts on this and if I had any favorites. I told her that I haven’t got any favorite solutions, but that I have some wishes and I expect her to have the same.
W: “I am all ears. I do not have any more children that have to be counted in so for me it doesn’t matter.”
Me: “I haven’t made any decisions. I have wishes but I have tried not to get too specific before the two of us talked”
W: “Well, why don’t we just try the karate and then see how it works out. I believe these things will change all the time”
She kept going and at one point I said something like “This has effects on the children’s life” to which she replied “Well, that where the two of us disagrees”.
She said things like “It will be difficult to get all this to work and now the girls will have different shifting days as well and in short time D5 might also want to attend something and then there’s a new problem”

At the end we agreed to wait with any decisions until Thursday.
I stayed totally calm. I listened and agreed too much of what she said but also stood my ground.

The talk lasted for 10 min.
She called back 10 min later
She started with: “What if D7 attends karate when she is with me?”

Then it all started over again but this time even more calm and nicely. I stood my ground, tried to explain that this situation is “normal” for D-children, that W can make her decisions when children are at her place and so on..
I told her that I will always try to do what is best for the children also when this is a tough decision.
After I said this she stated that a decision like this might be that D7 should not be more with me. I told W that I totally agree to her perspective. That it is our responsibility to act as responsible parents.
She then said that she is not even sure that she wants D7 more at my place. I told her that if that is her stand on this I will respect it.

She ended up by saying that she doesn’t know what to do about all of this. I told her that I understand why and suggested her to take some hours and think it through.

Second talk lasted 20 min. I was even calmer than in the first.

When I compare the two talks today with talks about the same subject some months ago it is a totally new world. I find myself reacting totally different, I do not feel any anger, I know where I stand, I feel at peace with the current situation, I listen to and understand Ws POV, I say the same things but the words and tone are new. I have lots of wishes about Ds time here, R and so on – but it is wishes and nothing I crave badly anymore.
W is also coming out very differently. There was no anger or spew today.
She argued her POV, told about her thoughts and feelings – all in a nice tone. Some months ago a talk like this made her angry and spewing.
We both have a little blaming. I point at the D-decision and she point at my boundary about shifting days to be the reason for this happening to the girls.

I do hope our talk on Thursday can be conducted in the same manner.

[Fartiltre]

I had a good talk with shrink Tuesday. She told me – once again – how good I am doing. “Are you actually aware that you have been doing this way for several months now, Fartiltre?”
Good talk…I will continue down this path of mine.

TALK WITH W
Today I met up with W as planned and we talked for 5 hours. Long talk – time simply vanished!
All was pleasant and nice. The first hour was just smalltalk about work and so and after this W pulled out a calendar and we talked about planning the next year. That stopped and we changed the subject to D7 wanting to spend more time at my place
I can’t remember all we talked about but here is the headlines.


D7
W told me she has been thinking a lot and that she can’t make up her mind.
I grabbed this opening and told her that this is the exact way I have felt so often and that is the reason for me to ask for a little time to think. Earlier on she has been very mad at me for this but today we had a good talk and she understood my POV. We laughed a little about her getting so angry when I have asked for thinking-time and then doing the exact same thing herself

W told that she was very hurt by D7s request. I understand why, I would have felt the same way – and I told her so. We then had a good talk about focusing on the children’s needs and not our own. I believe that W has looked at me as one that focuses entirely on his own needs until recently and that she – today – changed that view. I actually believe that she tried to see things from my perspective today.

We agreed on me having one more day with D7 every second week and then some unscheduled days as well. I am very happy with this solution and W seemed to be as well.
I fear that S11 won’t be because over the past half year he has loved the days he and I spend alone. Therefore I told W that I will give the agreement a thought and have a short talk with S11 before I decide finally.


FRIENDS
W wants to be friends. ”I know you told me last year that we can’t be friends but I do not want to be your enemy.” I told her that we will never be enemies, that I only wish her the best, but also that we can’t be friends. She then argued that there are many levels of friends to which I agreed and then left it hanging.


SHIFTINGDAYS
We had a short talk about the days where we pick up the Ds at the others place, attend something and then drop them off again. W now thinks I am right in this being hurtful to the Ds so we agreed that this has to stop.


ROUGH YEAR
W told me how hard the last year has been for her. She cried when telling about not knowing what to do, about being sad, about her feelings for the Ds, about feeling lost, about not knowing anything about the future, about the loss of family and dreams…many things.
I simply listened and validated her feelings.
She has a clear picture of me doing very very good. I told that I am but that I have been through many of the feelings that she described and that I can very much relate to them.

She told me that before she moved out she had it all planned. She told me she had a clear picture of what kind of XH and father I would be and then said “but none of what I expected happened”
She told me – some directly and some in between the line – that I am doing great, that her friends are very impressed with both of us….and so on.


I TAKE THINGS FROM W
W feel that I have taken things from her. My friendships with “her friends” Hs, one of her friends, my relations to neighbors (She lived at our house before me), things I do and so. I told her that I understand (and I certainly do) why she feels this way. She told me that I pop up all around in her life because I am doing so many things. She told me that she stays away from certain places and people because I go there.
Before I said anything she continued…”but then I ask myself. What would I have done if I were you….and I would have done the exact same thing. I would build social relations in the local community as you do”
I assured her that I was not out to take anything from her – I am only trying to give things to me. She understood. I also asked her about her visits at “my friends” and her coffe date at my brother and SIL – I believe that put things into perspective.
Never the less – she have this feeling.

She told me that I do so many things with the children that none is left for her…she feels like it is a competition but she doesn’t want to feel that way. Once again I told her that I understand and continued with telling her about all the things she does.
We agreed on this not being any kind of competition – just two parent doing different things and with two different perspectives on the matters.

She told me that going skiing with the children is her idea and when she heard that I was going this year she thought “Now, that as well”. She told me about wanting to go to the movies – but I had already been there.


I DO TO MUCH / DO I EVER RELAX
W still has this picture of me dragging the children from here to there and doing things all the time. I told her what we have been up to and that her picture is not exact. I told her about my goal of doing one thing out of the house every time Ds are here and how well it works for us.
We had a good talk about this – I told her that I have the opposite opinion; that she does things all the time.
Case is that we might both be right and wrong


SPORTS / ACTIVITIES / SHIFTING DAY
Once again we addressed the issue with the shifting day. The talk was nice this time.
I used many words and tried to explain my POV on this one and I believe W understood a little more this time.
I told her that we view this from two different perspectives. I do not see how the girls act at her place and opposite. I call from what I see at my place and she does the same. She agreed and told me that she is working on accepting that she can’t call things when Ds are at my place. I told her that she is right but that I will always listen to advice from her concerning the Ds – as long as she tells me them in a proper manner.


ANGER
I brought up her anger-issues. (She gets very angry when I decide other that what she thinks is best.)
I told her that I get so sad when she attacks me with things like “Don’t you want what is best for the girls”. I actually started crying while I told her. (The feelings just hit me and I normally never cries.)
I told her that I have one goal and that is to do what is best for the girls so her saying the opposite hurts like he77. She totally understood. She agreed and she apologized.
I told her that it has gotten better over the past two months or so but also that I hope she will keep on working on this.


EXPLAINING TO THE Ds
W have been trying to explain to D7 why adults split up and I believe that is soooo wrong. I told her nicely today and she didn’t understand but when I explained to her that D7 tells D5 in her words why split-ups occur W listened and understood.
I told W that we should stick with our old explanation (none) and if she needed help on this I suggested her a child book about the subject.
She gladly accepted and understood my POV


CHILDSUPPORT
She asked if us changing D7s days at my place would mean that I would apply for a cut in childsupport. I told I wouldn’t for now, but that this might change in the future.


D7 CLOTHING AND WEIGHT
We had a long talk about D7 being boyish in her clothing and about her having a belly.



The talk was nice, calm and pleasant all the way through. No anger shown at all and not one harsh word. When I cried W took my hand and when she started crying the second time I did the same.
She still seems gone. She talks in absolutes: “The girls will have to live with this for the rest of their lives”, “It might be that it is better with two parents in a home, but I am sure that this is not the case about us”
She sees the changes in me as everyone else.
She is still wearing jewels from me
No hug on arrival but a big one when I left
Still no signs of any OM

I felt relaxed and honest all the way through. My listening and validation skills are on a totally new level in general and I am pleased with that. Validation is easy when you understand.
I totally understand her feelings and thoughts and I understand why she wonders WTH is going on about friends and stuff I do. I have done that for a long time but it seems like she is getting an understanding of me as well.

I feel like I am in control of me and the situation. I communicated my POV on some matters that prior to this led to W being angry. Today she understood.
She still views my stand on the shifting day as wrong but she understand my POV – otherwise she actually agrees with my POVs. Makes me think “WOW” – time, patience and a little added communication skill certainly makes a difference.

I have no clue if this is a step towards or away from possible R but I am 100% certain that this is a MAJOR positive in regards of co-parenting. W ended up suggesting that we schedule a talk like this in November so we did.
Since I had no expectations when I entered I feel good

I am seeing me, W and the world in a totally new light these days. It feels great!
I still want R (perhaps even more after today) but I will be fine!

(I do know the above contains a lot of mindreading but this is my interpretation of the talk)


After the talk I had a session with my tri-coach and then a good run in the forest!

Splendid day:)

[sandi2]

I actually see it as a positive step. I think it was a very well job done by both of you.

The only comment I have to make is about the following statement:

W wants to be friends. ”I know you told me last year that we can’t be friends but I do not want to be your enemy.” I told her that we will never be enemies, that I only wish her the best, but also that we can’t be friends. She then argued that there are many levels of friends to which I agreed and then left it hanging.

Sounds as if she thinks a person has to be an enemy of friend....and there's no in between. I know I harped about not being her buddy when she first left you. B/c she wanted to have all the benefits of family time, without the commitment of the MR. She wanted everything on her terms and had a fantasy about how the D would really play out. However, she admitted it certainly was not that way in reality. And, I feel it would help her begin thinking about a possible R if the two of you were better friends(at least, stop telling her she can't be your friend b/c she thinks it means--enemy).

Since there is no OM, and since you do want to reconcile, and since she is seeing things better now.....I believe you have reached the point where you can afford to be more flexible in this area.

I would not make a discussion about it, nor even a statement...but just start slowly increasing the level of friendship. You've been doing so for a while now, anyway.

Do you understand (b/c I know it's important to you to understand these things about the process) why it was important not to fall into that position of "friend" when first she was "discarding" you as her mate.....and how friendship can be permissible at a later time (for some couples)? You both had things to learn, and now have reached a different level (I think) in this process of getting back together.

I encourage you to not push it, and to see this as your opportunity to shine. Let her see first hand (and closer up) how well you have developed into a new & better man. Eventually, it will lead to dinners and time together without the kids, hopefully.

While I don't want to confuse anyone about where I stand on the issue of friendship with the WAW, I do want to make it clear that I believe there are cases when there have been no waywardness in the behavior of the WAW (other than her leaving)and sufficient time has passed that a certain level of friendship is possible. As long as you understand that there is a risk that your heart could be broken and disappointed if there is no desire for reconciliation on her part. There is always a risk to some degree in relationships.

I do believe it will help soften the strain between the two of you. It may be quite helpful in keeping her anger under control.

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

When I wrote the last post I had a hard time translating my native into english. In my native tongue we have the words friend and enemy but we also have a word for not-friend. I looked up this word and the direct translation is enemy. The word not-friend is more like two people that doesn’t like eachother, they don’t necessarily wants to hurt each other but they avoid each other.
When W said she didn’t want to be enemies she used the not-friend word and not enemy as a war enemy or somebody else you want to hurt. It is so hard sometimes to get these translations right and I fear the enemy-word might cause some issues.
I didn’t hear W telling me she wants to be buddies (good friends) but I heard her saying she wants more than we have had.

I do get your points about getting friendlier and as you write I have changed my path towards one where I am friendlier. I will keep on this until it has to change again.
I like this – it is easier for me to be friendly. I still leave her all the space she wants but I do not end the convos as quickly and I share more of my life as well as I ask about hers.
…so yes, I believe I understand what I have to do from here! As usual I do not entirely understand why and why now, but I have learned that the full understanding of these steps normally comes to me when I start taking them.
I totally understand why I needed to go down the road of not being friends. It gave W, and even more important me, the time needed to figure out who we are. It healed a lot of the hurt and now enables both of us to communicate as adults. This would not have been possible without a long period of time apart.

I will take it slow from here. I need myself in this process and time has shown me that time is a friend in these matters. I am at a happy spot these days and I am not missing anything right now. I do want to share with W if possible but I will be fine without as well.
– so patience is rather easy these weeks/months.

I do know that R is not in any way certain and that I might get hurt – but I will risk that and more gladly. W is worth it and so are my children’s happiness.

I am glad you see the talk today as a positive and I do hope you will keep following and advising me on this journey.

As always, Sandi – Thanks a million for all your caring and support!

P.S. Today it is exactly one year ago I followed another advice from you and told W that we could not be friends and I started LRT/Dim/whatever-I-should-call-it. I am so glad I followed your advice. It saved me!!!
But OMG!! A year!!! Time flies (when having fun )!!!

[Fartiltre]

Since the talk with W Thursday there have been no interactions at all between me and W - I believe that to be normal. I have been thinking very much about W and Ds.
I guess this is a normal reaction to a talk like the one we had but unfortunately I feel less detached than before the talk.
I have been busy as he77 but still W manages to take up brain-time. I find myself trying to mindread, I miss more than usual, I wonder how she perceived our talk and so on – so in some funny way I feel like I have been set back some months when it comes to detachment.
I am certain that I will quickly get back to normal me and be able to get W out of my head again.

I miss my children and I am looking forward to having more time with D7 than I have been used to.

[sandi2]

Good move on your part not to initiate contact for a few days. However, I think it would be fine to initiate a contact. The kids may be your excuse to make contact, but you can work into the conversation a more personal interest about her. Not too much, but a little. Ask about her week or weekend. That sort of casual talk that most casual friends do. It is not over personal.

[Fartiltre]

W and I talked yesterday about me picking up the bags and about D7 wanting to stay more at my place. We did it on the phone and then again later when I picked up the bags.

We agreed upon me having a day more every second week that is scheduled and then for me to have D7 some days out of schedule. S11 said it would be fine when I talked to him about it but unfortunately I am not sure I trust him entirely.
The schedule works fine for me In fact I am thrilled!
Only issue to this is that W seems to expect me giving days back to her so she can have D7 alone as well but I won’t address this until it becomes an issue. I have also thought a lot about how this must have hurt W….I would have been devastated if this was the other way around.

It is hard for me to find these new “rhythm’s” when I communicate with W. I forget to ask her a few open ended questions. I have learned the habit of doing the opposite over time and I guess it will take a little time to find my way back. Hard part is unlearning something that seemed so counter intuitive and therefore took a long time to learn. I will get there soon and I have changed my reading towards this subject.
The interactions yesterday were all fine and pleasant and it feels like the talk Thursday has enabled us to communicate a teeny tiny little bit deeper. Hard to explain!


On a totally other level we got a new employee at work. It’s a woman that I slept with more than 20 years ago. She is a single mother today and I don’t know whether she has a BF or not. I have found myself wondering about her. That’s the second time something like this has happened to me during the past 1½ year.
Feels good in some peculiar manner and at the same time it feels like cheating in another peculiar manner

I still struggle with my financials that seems to be the only part left of me that I need to get sorted out.


Ds came yesterday and that is as always fantastic. We will enjoy the upcoming weekend. I have booked concert-tickets to a family-concert with a local pop-idol that children love. It will be great showing Ds what a concert actually is.

All good - I am just fine!

Sandi,
Thanks for the advice! I will follow it but this is harder for me than I thought as you might be able to read in the above.
I will work on my communication with a goal of getting the talks to last a little bit longer and for W and I to share a little bit more of what happens and maybe even more important what will happen.
Thanks again

[Fartiltre]

Not that much to report on the W-front.
I called her yesterday and told her about D7s reactions towards spending more time here and her reaction when I told her that karate will be difficult in the time to come.
D7 ran up and down the floor shouting in joy with her hands raised in the air, when I told her that she gets more time and then she got sad when I told her that it is not 50/50 but close. She also got sad when I told her about karate but we had a good talk.

The woman from work and I texted a lot yesterday evening and ended up putting a “date” in the calendar.
This is MAJOR for me and if somebody had asked me Monday this week if I was about to do something like this I would had said “Nope, not in any way – I am not ready for that!”.
I have thought a lot about it and I want to do this. I have absolutely no idea where this decision will take me, if it is wise, if I am ready and then some, but I do know that I enjoy female company for the first time in 1½ year and that I have been having “thought’s” . The “date” is in ten days since we both have busy schedules.
The woman and I have talked for 1-2 hours at work so I don’t even know her. I will take it very slow, try to enjoy and be honest with her about where I am at the moment.

I ask myself every half hour if this means I am not standing anymore and I have no answer to it – I am in unknown territory here as so many times before in all of this. It certainly means that the rope is getting thinner.

I got the chickens
When all of this started I wanted chickens – never got them! Got rabbits and ducks but every time I tried to find some chickens something went wrong. Yesterday three chickens arrived and more will hopefully follow.
I went through my lists from when all of this started – oh boy a lot have happened to me, my life, my children – it all. Getting chickens is another mark on the list and the list from then almost done now. Lot’s have been added since so it is still long

[Fartiltre]

I am home after a short businesstrip to Spain.

W has been texting the usual stuff: How a parents meeting at school turned out, that D7 would like a day alone with her so D5 has to come here someday alone and that D7 is so sad about karate – it seems like these things will continue. I don’t know if W is plain informing me or if she is trying to guilt me into reconsidering my decision…and to be honest I simply don’t care!
I made the right decision for now in these regards.

I feel the rope loosening, I find my thoughts drifting less and less towards W, I have found my motivation at work and my partners have expressed how pleased they are with me at the moment. I feels like order is coming out of the chaos I have been through.
I feel good and I feel aware. It is a strange feeling and hard to explain. I see things in new perspectives and I feel more alive than I have done in many years and it shines through in my daily interactions with other people…it feels good!

I am still texting with this new woman. She will visit me on Monday and although I am scared sh!tless I also look very much forward to this. I hope we will have a nice afternoon and evening.

I have changed my reading patterns. His needs, her needs is back on the shelf. I am now reading about attraction and sex. One of the issues W and I had was sex and WHEN I find myself naked with a woman (W or not) at some point in the future – I want to do better!
His needs her needs will not be forgotten!

Sunday I have my first 110 km bikeride and look forward to that as well.

I still struggle with workissues. I wonder if I should change my career and my look on workissues….but for now I will leave it be.
I am fine and I will be even better!

[lovethehub]

F,

I continue to feel that you are too rigid. YOUR feeling is that karate had to go because it was the day you changed children. Was that your d's feeling?

[Fartiltre]

Well….Date is over and it was amazing!
The woman (from hereon she) came here at 5PM and we just started talking. Went for a walk on the beach talking, plucked berries talking, cooked and talked – just talked and not about small matters. We talked about the deep stuff! We laughed, she cried a little when talking about hurtful stuff – it was so honest and nice!

She is my opposite! ….or perhaps she is just opposite to old me! She is vegetarian and I am a hunter that breeds and slaughters ducks, rabbits and chickens. She is an actor and standup-comedian and very extrovert – I am in business and very introvert. She is bi-sexual and old me would have run as fast and far away as possible. She lives in town and I in the country – the list is long but we talked about many of these issues and as we dived into them one by one we discovered that we are not that far apart on most of the issues. I listened mostly and she talked – I found myself listening without judging. I simply just accepted her POV as hers and I didn’t need to convince her towards mine.
It was awesome talking to a single-mom and having her POVs on single-parenting and her XHs caring for their son. Men and women sure have different eyes and views. She opened my eyes towards many of the good things I do but also towards many of the good things W does.

We talked until around 11.30PM and then I kissed her. I took me a long time to man up – I felt so insecure and I feared a rejection like I have never done before all though she was giving me signals (like a foot- and hand massage) that even a blind man could not have missed.
She spent the night in my bed. We did not go all the way – but some – and afterwards we slept and woke up arm in arm.

It felt crazy wakening with a woman in my bed. I would have sworn 3 weeks ago that this could not happen for at least a year and here I find myself….and I am not feeling bad! While wakening up I thought of W. At least a year ago Sandi2 told me to look at W as Rhet Butler on Scarlett – the “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn”. Today I felt that exact way: I really don’t give a damn. This is not meant in anyway as I want her to feel bad. On the contrary I hope she feels good – but if she is happy or not doesn’t change a dime in my life! As long as W is a good parent and we continues to co-parent in the way we do now, W can feel, act and do as whatever W likes!

The morning was a bit awkward but I think that is normal after an evening of that kind. I had meetings all day and afterwards I went to her place for a cup of coffee. Stayed and talked for an hour. It was nice!
I have told her that I want to take things slowly. That I need time and that I am not ready to commit. I want to be honest and if she can’t handle this or if she is in another place then so be it – but for now I really hope to enjoy some more time with this new woman in my life!
It will be hard to meet up at work pretending nothing happened

I can’t put the words on my feelings about me these days! I feel better than ever! I feel alive, aware and present! My life is filled with nice experiences as a single dad, as a parent, a friend and after I got my sh!t together at work, even that rocks! I feel that my goal of being through this process by the end of 2014 will be accomplished. If I can get my financials sorted I will be a happy man!


TO ANY NEWBIES READING THIS!
I urge you to read some of my first posts in here! I was a mess – as bad as they come!
There is a way through all of this and the sun shines once you get there!
Do the work, follow the advice from the VETs, educate yourself and do focus on YOU!


LTH,
As always thanks for chiming in! It is very much appreciated!
D7 got very sad about the karate! I haven’t discussed the matter with D5 since I wouldn’t trust or act on her answer anyway.
I have discussed my decision with my shrink and with friends that knows Ds and they agree. It might come out as rigid but for now it is better to mind Ds hurt and daily life than it is to give in to D7s wish. I am almost certain that W shares your view fully and even some part of me agrees with you.
I am certain that right now it is the right decision I have made but it will be evaluated in 2-3 months and at that time Ds might be ready – at the moment they are not.

[sandi2]

She spent the night in my bed. We did not go all the way – but some – and afterwards we slept and woke up arm in arm.

Wow! After that first kiss, your insecurity must have vanished.

[Fartiltre]

Interactions with W seems so easy and few at the moment. All interactions are still pleasant and fine but I haven’t spoken with W for 8-10 days. We have texted a little about practicals but other than that – nothing.
I now have more days where she is not the first thought in my mind than the other way around.

I feel my self-confidence and self-worth returning and I feel people around me enjoying my company. I get so many positive strokes from all around these days that it seems crazy.
I know I have written about this several times before but I simply can’t find the words to describe what goes on and how it makes me feel. I have an appointment at shrink next week and for the first time in 1½ year I believe I can tell her that I am a happy man and believe in the words myself.
Next task for me is to make sure that this stays in me for the rest of my life and that will be my next task with shrink. Furthermore I want to keep on educating and changing me.
I will change my view on shrink from somebody that helps me get through troubled times to somebody that helps me stay on the path.

I have thought a lot about the above for the past days and at first I thought the new woman was a catalyst towards these feelings but now I believe that this has been sneaking in on me for several months. I simply haven’t seen or recognized the signs of me feeling better and better. Looking back I realize that friends, shrink, business partners and others has seen it and they have told me – I just didn’t want to see, hear or believe.
New woman has pushed this process but she didn’t start it.
I believe that I have taken a new step in this process several weeks ago but as always I am the last one to see it! I don’t know if I am totally detached or if the rope is gone – if not, I am certainly getting closer!


I have seen new woman twice more and we have ML.
It is so hard working next to her and pretending she is just an employee or co-worker but we both manage OK at the moment. She will stop working here in three weeks.

My insecurity is gone but on a sexual level I am certainly not functioning as I used to. That goes for body and brain.
On the brain-level I find myself caring more about her feeling good, safe and secure than I ever had with anybody. The actual cuddling (I believe this is the word but I am not sure) was second, third or lower. I wanted her to feel good.
I did – she has told me, on more than one occasion, that she is experiencing a feeling of security that she has never felt before. She just felt good and like I was respecting and caring for her. She felt safe. She told me that I signals strength, I come out deliberate, thoughtful, caring and many other positive things – and that I am a great kisser That these things add up to her wanting to ML and to be honest she initiates all. I took the first step when kissing her the first time but from thereon she has been initiating.
I see all the things I have been reading about women acted out. Foreplay is talk and touch and if you do that from a truthful and honest place….the rest takes care of itself (or she does)
I understand that she is on to me and that she is only seeing positives at the moment, but still this is what she told me. Compared to all my thoughts for the past year and until few weeks ago this seems crazy. I can have this impact on a stranger I am not a shadow anymore.

This is also so opposite to old me! I stalked W for sex (not ML!!) I cared about me!
It is also so completely opposite to what I got used to hearing from W. I can surely see why W told me what she did but when hearing the same thing over and over I actually starts to believe it and then I start acting it. It is a vicious circle that only leads downwards and I let it happen.
I understand the difference between new and old partners –but this is more than just that. So much more!
Best part is that I don’t act-as-if, I don’t think about my words or doings – it just comes natural to me!


My body doesn’t work as it used to. It might be due to the fact that I haven’t been naked with a woman for 20 or more months or it might be due to the totally changed focus. I could see and feel that my physical lack of reactions made her feel insecure, so I told her in few words that it wasn’t her but me. I told her that I might need some time to get used to a woman’s attention. That time and patience is important words in my life!
We met up again yesterday and the day before. Body worked better but still nothing like it used to. I had the exact same experience with my focus once again.


The upcoming weekend is filled with good stuff!
Future looks bright!
Still need financials sorted out!
I still have absolutely no idea where all of this will take be but I am certain that it will be to a good place as long as I stick with my new knowledge and new ways!


SANDI,
I don’t know how to comment on your latest post because I read some irony or likewise in it that might be due to language So I have decided just to take it straight on as if there is no irony in it.

You are completely right! My insecurity disappeared instantly. I do hope the above explains my thoughts on this matter.


LTH,
Due to your last post a had a long talk with the educated adults at D5’s kindergarten yesterday. They experience her troubles on shifting days first hand and without me telling about my decisions they told me:
That D5 is hurting a lot on these days. That she needs these days in a firm schedule in regards of pickup time, eating time, bedtime and so on. That she needs peace these days. When I told them about D7s karate and what kind of schedule that would put on D5 they told in very strict words that in their opinion that would be a no-go for now.
They know D7 as well.
Thanks LTH

[sandi2]

No, I did not mean any irony. I was just shocked to see how quickly things moved. I am not judging. I just want you to be happy. (And not forget to use protection if you don't want to increase the size of your family. Honestly, I don't know how you could afford all the birthday parties!).

Well maybe meeting new women will help you know if you really want to reconcile with W or not. You should not feel that you have to "settle", but rather, have the "best". You have had a tough 20 months and have done a ton of work on yourself. Enjoy life, stay smart and make good decisions.

I didn't intend for that to sound like a goodbye.

[Fartiltre]

What an absolutely amazing week!

Children have been awesome and they have paid me more compliments than ever. D7 has started to say “I love you” and that is not the normal. She is hugging me in public and at school – WOW! She has been through this period were emotional statements in public is “embarrassing” She still wants more time with me and especially just her and me.


New woman is fantastic. We have spent some time and two nights together but due to her schedule (she has S11) and mine being very different we only have every second Monday without children. That makes things a little difficult because I really want to get to know her but meeting children at this stage is a no go – for me and her. We have talked very openly about this and many other matters.

She D’ed 8 years ago and has been single since then. She has been through a lot of hurt and hardship and she wears her scars as I wear mine. She seems to be in touch with them and she is working on herself all the time. She started working herself seriously about a year ago. She sees T, she reads and she GALs. She seems to be a great mother and her R to the father is OK.

One part (and the biggest part) of me just wants to rush into this new exciting R. I am so intrigued with new woman. She certainly has it all and she is filling my tanks to the top and above these days. At the same time I am so afraid that this is just a reaction because of the lack of intimacy I have experienced. I fear that I am about to start something that I shouldn’t but then again I also fear throwing away something good and beautiful.

Another part wants to run away and stay single. I was starting to get the hang of this, I felt good and I felt free. W was very often in my head but I was doing all right. At the same time I want to share life with a woman and this one seemingly has it all.

Final part still thinks of W and R with her. This would be the best solution for kids, W and me but only if W and I would be able to REALLY sort things out. It is one humongous IF! I do not know W anymore but I am not especially impressed with what I see. It doesn’t seem like she is looking inwards and until that happens no R can happen. At the moment I have only little doubts towards this: If W knocked on my door tomorrow and asked to talk about R – I would send her home! I can’t see myself living with her right now.
On the other hand I know nothing. “Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see” still goes!


Looking back at the past two weeks seems absolutely crazy. I have been working on me for so long and I have felt it as nothing happened and suddenly life just explodes right in my face. I see things around me so clearly when I take my time to journal, talk to shrink or just sit alone with a cup of tea but when I enters the world everything seems to have changed in two weeks. I trust the issue here is – once again – that I didn’t recognize the changes when they happened. They sneaked in on me. Friends, shrink and others see them clearer because they don’t follow me as I do. It’s like the story of the boiling frog.

LTH, Sandi2 and my shrink has asked me several times if I really wants to R with W. I have felt no uncertainty at all when answering yes to this Q – maybe the people around me sees me clearer than I do. Maybe my doubts, my lack of confidence, my low self-esteem and self-worth, my focus on change and all of this have made me blind to where I actually am and maybe – just maybe – that place of feeling good is actually where I have been for a long time and this new woman just made me realize this.

Case is that I feel privileged living my life these days This doesn’t change my view on D and the children but it certainly changes my view on me!

No, I did not mean any irony. I was just shocked to see how quickly things moved. I am not judging. I just want you to be happy. (And not forget to use protection if you don't want to increase the size of your family. Honestly, I don't know how you could afford all the birthday parties!).

Thanks for clarifying – and thanks Sandi; I would never ever have found this place if you hadn’t helped and pushed me! You will forever be in the back of my mind and in my prayers.
Things have moved so extremely fast and it has taken me completely by surprice - I would never have guessed on this development - ever!
I would very much like your opinion on this.
Is this normal? Is it normal that suddenly LBHs feels like being through?
What should be my next concern?

Well maybe meeting new women will help you know if you really want to reconcile with W or not. You should not feel that you have to "settle", but rather, have the "best". You have had a tough 20 months and have done a ton of work on yourself. Enjoy life, stay smart and make good decisions.
I didn't intend for that to sound like a goodbye.

You won’t get rid of me that easily Journaling in here helps me a lot and hopefully at some point I feel I have the knowledge to pay some of this forward to others.
I certainly do not want to settle – I want the best of the best and I feel I deserve it New woman is fantastic but it is still so new and untested that to be honest it can all fall apart tomorrow.
Time and patience, right

[paul19510]

Hi F. I haven't posted in a while but still read theads. It sounds like you are doing well. I also met someone new. She has been a wonderful addition to our lives here. I do find that the pain from my sitch still exists. I even find myself thinking or reacting to ideas or situations in old ways based on conditioning i had during my M. Old habits die hard i guess. I stop myself beforw i react to things "out loud".

My GF has been very open and honest
She has been thru this too. I have let go of my W and rhe D process is almost sone. Still i find myself mindful of where i came from and how i got to this place. I am determined to let this be all that it can. I dont.know what the future holds. Does tjis sound familiar in you experience?

[MrBond]

"Is this normal? Is it normal that suddenly LBHs feels like being through?
What should be my next concern?"

Just my 2 cents. Right now you're experiencing the same "fog" that the WASs experience. You are feeling the high of a new relationship, feeling as if you are finally awakened, etc. But to be honest, these were the same feelings you had with W when you first got together. Over time those feelings get forgotten.

In fact, if you were to compare what you just posted to what WASs involved in an A say, you will find that they are eerily similar.

Take the time to really take it slow and GROW the relationship if that's what you really want.

I agree with sandi. It did seem very quick and it's not uncommon. The LBS feels so neglected that any positive interaction "suddenly" seems like a miracle and they feel a sudden sense of love. Over time, like every other relationship, those feelings will fade.

[ForeverYoung]

Hi F,

I agree with MrBond. Just like a spouse in an A, you are seeing the world through magical glasses because you are now in limerence. Feel good chemicals are being released in your brain, causing you to crave more. This craving is so strong it will easily overcloud all logic.

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong or making a mistake.

Just understand that this stage you are in typically lasts 6-24 months. Ultimately, there is no way to know if this R will be any better than one with your W until you get through this period and see what you two have on the other side.

Meeting someone and connecting like you and new women have is actually one of my fears. I want to continue to stand for my M, because I know my W is worth it, and I know how difficult a dream girl would make it to continue to stay on track.

Enjoy each day and take care, my friend.

[Fartiltre]

I had a long and nice talk with shrink Thursday morning.
We addressed three issues in my life:
- Me continuing on my path
- New woman (NW)
- WTF happened over the past 3,4 or 5 months

Shrinks opinion is rather clear.
I haven’t changed me! I have simply peeled of some layers and gotten the true me back. She tells me that a change that fast and consistent is not learning new ways – it’s taking away unwanted things.

She tells me to take it slow with NW but also to enjoy.

She tells me to stick with the things that make me happy. To keep doing them and if NW wants to join in then welcome her, but if not then still keep doing them. Things are fatherhood, GAL, exercise, friends, educating and developing me, work.
She also tells me to stay away from things that makes me unhappy. That list is so short People that I do not feel comfortable around.
In short she tells me the same as I hear here: Stick with your happy life and integrate a woman if possible – otherwise stay single. NW and I have talked about this and she feels the same way about her life and journey.

I will make a list and then I will start keeping track of my doings so I will be able to evaluate. I will give the list to shrink and she will help me to stick with it!

She tells me that the fear I have about not being ready for women (W, NW or others) is rubbish. We had a good talk about this. She saw the change settling in several months ago and sees me as ready for life.

We didn’t have nearly the time needed so I booked a new time Monday.
We adressed my focus once again and my problems in the lower regions. I simply do not “function” as I should and it is starting to annoy and worry me big time!

NW and I spend three hours in a bed friday afternoon – three hours! Looking back I believe that three minutes might be the average! We talked, laughed, cuddled and then started over – the hours just passed by. She stayed here from Monday 2pm till Tuesday 2pm as well. Great time containing it all.

I had a good talk with friend friday as well. He knows W and likes her. He told me that it all seems so unfair to W. That NW now gets this new me and doesn’t know the history. That if W feels angry, wondering, hurt or whatever about me being who I am now – he understands. I agree fully with him. I also understand W. I should have done this years ago. Shrink and I also talked shortly about this. Shrink told me that I wouldn’t have been able to. That I needed a major kick in the head to wake up. W gave me that by leaving. I also believe that shrink is spot on.


MrBond,
Thanks for taking the time to advice and help me once again

Just my 2 cents. Right now you're experiencing the same "fog" that the WASs experience. You are feeling the high of a new relationship, feeling as if you are finally awakened, etc. But to be honest, these were the same feelings you had with W when you first got together. Over time those feelings get forgotten.
In fact, if you were to compare what you just posted to what WASs involved in an A say, you will find that they are eerily similar.

I understand this very well and I agree! The “in love” feeling is different probably due to age but the feeling of being acknowledged is the same. It does feel great and it makes me feel better.
…and yes – it was the same feelings I experienced when I met W. Still there is one major difference. I understand the feelings and I believe I have the knowledge that makes me capable of taking one step back and look at the situation. In fact I believe this is what gives me doubts about what I am doing and I do have doubts.
I understand that the in-love-feeling will fade or we forget it.

Take the time to really take it slow and GROW the relationship if that's what you really want.

I don’t know what I really want to be honest. I knew some weeks ago or thought I knew, but now I am split in three parts as I described in my previous post. I know I want to be happy and I am getting closer and closer to actually knowing what makes me happy and what makes me unhappy. I want to continue working me, but in regards of women I have no idea about what I want. New woman just surfaced. I didn’t look for it actively but then again I didn’t turn her down. She makes me feel happy at the moment. On a bigger time scale I have no idea. W doesn’t make me feel happy at the moment and on the bigger time scale I have no idea. So when I put on my calculating, lizard, ever-spinning, fixer male-brain I believe I would be a very stupid man not to investigate this new woman – still from an honest angle. Then again it might just be the “fog” that makes me think that way.
I have read so much for the past year about personal development, love, relationships, sex, attraction and so on but my knowledge in regards of growing an R is close to nothing. Right now I simply take it day-by-day.

I agree with sandi. It did seem very quick and it's not uncommon. The LBS feels so neglected that any positive interaction "suddenly" seems like a miracle and they feel a sudden sense of love. Over time, like every other relationship, those feelings will fade.

I also agree to this but what on earth am I supposed to do then  New woman makes me feel good and when I look at her objectively (as objectively as I am capable of) she seems to be one fantastic human being.
I believe that the change in me occurred weeks ago so I do not see NW as the cause. She definitely has speeded the process but she didn’t start it. I didn’t miss that part of my life until I suddenly experienced it.

MrBond – I hope the above makes sense. I agree with you but I also think that there is a second side to this. It is not like I became single yesterday and just rushed out in a new R. I do hope that all the knowledge I feel I have in my bag now will help me choose the right path and make the right choices. For now I choose to focus on me and what makes me feel good. Don’t know what else to do!


FYoung,
Always good to hear from you – thanks for taking the time!

I agree with MrBond. Just like a spouse in an A, you are seeing the world through magical glasses because you are now in limerence. Feel good chemicals are being released in your brain, causing you to crave more. This craving is so strong it will easily overcloud all logic.

I understand! I try to step back and apply logic and objectivity all the time. It’s not easy because the”feel-good-feeling” pulls me in the opposite direction.

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong or making a mistake.

I know and I didn’t read your post this way! I know you mean only good!

Just understand that this stage you are in typically lasts 6-24 months. Ultimately, there is no way to know if this R will be any better than one with your W until you get through this period and see what you two have on the other side.

I agree once again! I am not looking for a quick fling with anybody. I want a meaningful R with somebody I connect with. Case is that I have no idea if I connect with New Woman yet. That will take more time, more talks and walks – and then at some point children, practical’s and all of that will hit daily life.
For now she makes me feel good. I enjoy her company in every way possible.
At the moment the only reason I see for me and W getting back together is children. W is maybe still the lovely lady I met years ago, but I have no idea.

Meeting someone and connecting like you and new women have is actually one of my fears. I want to continue to stand for my M, because I know my W is worth it, and I know how difficult a dream girl would make it to continue to stay on track.

I never even looked at this possibility. Never saw it possible until it suddenly happened to me. I understand your POV and wonder about my own if I hadn’t met New Woman. I would probably still be standing!
Case is that this just happened so fast

Enjoy each day and take care, my friend.

Thanks FY – I will …remember to do the exact same thing!

[B-V2]

Hello F,

Just wanted you to know that over the cause of some past weeks, I have been reading your whole thread from your first posting of 12th April 2013 till now: so thank you for having posted as detailed and as often as you do, very hard working on yourself you have been and are.

Your 1st ever posting inspired me to start my very 1st own thread yesterday in a similar style, as I liked your logical structure, so I copied that structure with pride and I hope you do not mind.

I see several similarities between your 2013 postings and my current situation (apart from both of us living in Scandinavian countries): WAW that has clearly decided to move out and did so quickly (and in my case also to immediately starting the divorce process).

Have an excellent weekend, and if you have any good advise then I look forward reading such in my thread, I will continue to visit yours often.

[Fartiltre]

The past days have been pleasant. As days go by W is less and less on my mind and the thoughts about her has changed a lot. I don’t miss her anymore – that’s it! I still find it so sad on behalf of the children but not for myself anymore. I am good and that goes with or without NW. I am starting to realize - for real – for how long both W and I felt miserable in our R. We are talking years and that might enhance the peace I feel these days.

NW and I spent Thursday night together and yesterday we talked 3½ hours on the phone. It is jolly nice to share thoughts and life with somebody again. She asked if I am her boyfriend yesterday...she seems ready for it all, talking about future and so. I am all right with the talk and it is difficult not to get dragged along but I need to slow it down. Through these talks we get to know each other and that’s nice but it seems fast even though we don’t spend that much time together. I have also already stated a few boundaries and every time she seems positively astonished and starts talking about it as something all men should do even if she disagrees. (I now see the “respect” issue so clearly Sandi2).

I started reading “His needs – her needs” a few days ago and once again my eyes just opens – amazing book! The author could have substituted most of the examples with the story of me and W. Only exception is that there is no OM. I can also see how NW and I meet each other’s needs at the moment. It is almost like my needs are intimate conversation and hers is ML. The opposite of what is described in the book – but I guess that is exactly what happens when the R is new. I also believe that MrBond was spot on when he said that this is what happens – the difficult part is keeping this going at an acceptable level for both.
I have learned so many lessons already and I feel ready for many more. I want my eyes wide open and I want a greater understanding of what makes an R last.

The ML part that was causing me major problems seems to work better

Communication with W seems less than normal. I guess things are starting to find into routines are the day to day Qs are answered and sorted out. Since we only talk children and practical’s there is no need to talk on a daily basis unless something happens and right now nothing happens.

My legs are killing me and they have been this way for weeks now. I have an appointment with doctors Monday to have them examined. Hopefully they can do something about it since it is affecting my ability to exercise tremendously

Paul,
Good to hear from you
I does sound familiar. The pain or more likely the experience and the knowledge gathered from it will always be there. I certainly hope so! I feel stronger than ever and even more important I feel at balance. I still find myself reacting as old me but throughout this year it has become more and more seldom. I feel at peace and I feel ready for life whatever it may bring.
I still don’t know that much about NW and I will take it as slow as possible. I am tempted to just rush into it but I need myself and the kids to be a part of this process so it will have to be slow. Funny how everybody (friends, shrink, here etc.) tells me to take it slow but nobody haven’t got a clue about what timeframe slow is.
It sounds like you are doing well and that pleases me. Both of us have been through the grinder and are now back on out feet – that’s how I hope everybody (R or no R) will end up.

Sandi,
I believe this post disappeared in the forum update so I copied it from the email I received.

I hope you are prepared, in case your W is not happy about NW. Ordinarily, I would predict a negative reaction from her, but she has already proven not to fit the typical mode, so IDK what to expect. But I think what really would throw you for a loop would be for W to start pursuing you when she hears about NW.

I think you would love to have a nice simple life, but if it involves women......I doubt it will happen.

Love the last sentence Sandi! …and I believe you are absolutely on the spot here. Single life is simple life, women are not! …but I want to share with somebody so I will face the dragon(s) head on

I don’t know what to expect from W.
I guess you are right about the “if W starts pursuing me” part but I won’t let thoughts like that interfere at the moment. I won’t prepare for or “fear” something that might never happen. I want to be happy where I am. If she gets angry about NW when she finds out then so be it. I believe I can handle it – in fact I believe I can handle most these days. W is down from the pedestal, she is just a woman whom happens to be the mother of my Ds. Some times when we talk it almost feels as if the roles are now opposite. Just a feeling I have!

[Fartiltre]

I am good!

I have just spent some very nice days in Poland enjoying nature and hunting. (Ran into a huge male wolf while stalking in the forest. We stared at each other for a minute or so at 80 meters before he took off again – WOW!) It has been good and the peace in the forest, the excitement about the hunt, the fresh air and so on did me good.

Work is ok but business is bad. I wonder if the company I earn my living in will survive the difficulties it is facing, but I do not worry (that much) about the future. I will be ok whatever happens.

NW and I are getting along great. We talk, laugh and enjoy each other’s company. Due to children we do not spend that much time together but we value what we get. I find myself prioritizing her over many things but not the important new things I have learned during the past 1½ year.
As I get to know her I understand that she was once (8 years ago) a WAW and that her xH might have put her through exactly what I put W through. We haven’t discussed it deeply but due to the understanding I have of all of this now, I seemingly understands her like no one have ever done before.
She is very different from W. VERY! We share many things and views but also disagree on a lot. Still no deal breakers for either one of us.
We have talked about our fears, about being afraid to believe if this is true romance or just both of us feeling good about the romance itself. We have had many many deep and long intimate talks and I see how that affects her. The books are so right but case is that it just comes natural to me. I have turned in to a great listener and now I also share my deeper thoughts. Never used to do that!
We are talking about how to keep this going and we have started to plan more than a few days ahead. Things seem to go faster than I planned but I haven’t got a clue about how to slow it down. It seems natural and she is just one heck of a woman.
ML seems to be getting better

W has texted me twice about the karate during the past week. D7 is giving her a really hard time about this and D7 is asking W if she can stay there on Wednesdays so she can go to karate.
I stick with the agreement W and I made on this some weeks ago.
W sends a text asking me to reconsider, I say no, she goes silent and then it starts over. I can understand her hurt and POVs on these matters but IMHO she needs to put her foot down and tell D7 to stop. W seems to let a little door open to D7 every time and that gives D7 hope – and she pursues this as every child or human being would.
I still get the doubts whether I handled this OK but everybody around tell me I am doing the right thing. The only one that really challenged me is in fact NW
Ds are still hurting and stating that they wish W and I still lived together. S11 seems just fine and perhaps even happier than ever.
Communication with W is seldom and still totally pleasant unless I say no to something. I have made it a habit to text W when Ds go to her to tell her what we have been doing. She has told me it is so nice I do that but she doesn’t do it herself.

I find myself wondering what I would do and how I would feel if W wanted to R. I can’t predict the future but right now I do not feel like it.

My disease has been really bad for the past 4 weeks. My legs hurt a lot and some mornings I use ½-1 hour just to get out of bed. The normal health system seems to have given up so I have spent some time searching for alternatives. I found one and have consulted him a few times. It’s a guy that helps athletes, soccer players and so and he comes highly recommended.
Right now he is my hope. Due to the legs hurting I can’t exercise and that s!cks

I find myself at peace these weeks. NW is off course a part in this but I am fine. I face health issues and possible financial problems but in some odd way it doesn’t stress me or makes me sad.

B-V2
Welcome on board MS DB! As everybody else I am sorry that we meet here – but still in the current situation this might be the greatest place on “earth”
I am not (yet) familiar with your story but I will be Nice to meet a Scandinavian in here – I believe you are the first I know of. I also hope you will find the boards, the books and the “world” that surrounds DB as great as I have. I have been blessed with a tremendously big and caring amount of advice and if not for that I would have been a wreck.

Just wanted you to know that over the cause of some past weeks, I have been reading your whole thread from your first posting of 12th April 2013 till now….

Oh my That is a lot of reading but if it helped you reading it just 1% as much as it helped me writing it I am glad. Reading is good but I found that posting made me think and it made my thoughts clearer.

Your 1st ever posting inspired me to start my very 1st own thread yesterday in a similar style, as I liked your logical structure, so I copied that structure with pride and I hope you do not mind.

Off course not – just happy that it can be used to something good. I had no idea what I was doing at that time

I will get back to you on your own thread when I have had the time to read it but hopefully some of the VETs in here have helped you already.

[Fartiltre]

I am so busy these weeks so my time here and everywhere else is limited. Right now I prioritize me, my children, my IRL-life and then off course new woman (NW)

I find myself feeling happy and content I feel better than ever and only two issues rises I my mind when I look for fears, upcoming troubles and so on.

First one is about NW and if I am ready for this. Shrink, friends and so tells me I am, but the time spent here and all the reading I have done gives me doubts. Few days ago a dear friend told me to go with my feeling. “If you feel like spending time with her – then do it” and I guess that will be the mantra for the upcoming time. And – oh boy – I feel like spending the time.
Perhaps it is time for me to actually follow my own feelings and my own heart for once and stop thinking twice about every word I say or decision I make. I don’t want (in any way) to fall back into old habits so I have made plans with shrink so she will help me stay on track, I have shared many of my thoughts and worries with NW so she knows about my past and old me, I have shared with friends that will help me – I feel I have a caring group of people that will back me if needed. I feel motivated to stay on track simply because I feel good. I like new me so much better than old me and I recognize the power of old habits and what caused me to fall as deep as I did in the R with W. I think I might be ready

NW met my Ds (as a friend) Saturday and it was crazy! They totally loved her and asked me to call her and invite her to stay for dinner after she had left. She came back and we enjoyed the evening. There were so many nice interactions between her and the Ds that I can’t count them, but two stands out.

1/
D7 pulled me aside and this happened:
D7: “Dad, are you in love with NW?”
Me: “I think she is very nice…why do you ask?”
D7: “I would like you to be….”

2/
NW stayed the night! She slept in a separate room. I slept with her but went to my own bed very early so the Ds wouldn’t/didn’t notice. When D5 woke up and discovered that NW was still there she got up without spilling one word to me, went to NW and tugged herself in beside NW in her bed.

I was taken completely by surprise and just writing this makes my heart jump again. Ds actually chose NW above me several times (when seating at dinner table, sitting in the couch and so on. I haven’t experienced that before with anybody, but XW)
NW was as surprised as me and at the same time as happy as me……

I am trying to take it slow, NW and I have talked about it but I (both of us) just get pulled back right in. I feel and act as I am in love with all its goodies, but I also (now) know that this makes me see it all in a different and perhaps brighter and better light than I should. I fear that this light covers the truth. I try to step back and look at the situation with objective eyes, at me, at her, at the children and all I see is good – still I get the fears.

The second issue for fears is my financials…the company I work in is on its way to bankruptcy and I will have to look into new possibilities soon.

Still I feel good and I am certain that everything will be all right. I feel enlightened and at peace and solely due to BD – it is crazy how a devastating and life-changing experience can make you go from (briefly) thinking about taking your own life to what I feel at the moment.
NW is a part of my happy-feeling but she is not the cause of it in any way.

XW (as I will call her from hereon) and I get along fine. We doesn’t talk that much and solely about children. That is just fine to me! I have informed her about NW as I didn’t want her to learn this from the Ds or anyone else but me. She seemed OK with this but then again “only trust half……” still goes
I do not in any way feel attracted towards XW. I see the hurt the D has put on the children and it hurts me that they are hurting – that is the sole cause for me still seeing that XW and I being together would cause any good….and that just isn’t enough! I am gone!
I informed her about NW on a text and got a “Congrats. That pleases me much to hear and thanks for informing me” back. I wanted her to hear it from me instead of the Ds or somebody in town. She seems to be fine with it.
We talked on the phone later and off course she is a bit curious which seems totally normal. The talk was as always pleasant and nice. She stated that “I have been thinking lately and it is time for me to put the pain and the hurt behind me”.

I might still have a chance of R but I don’t have the patience, the strength or whatever it takes. Furthermore the attraction is totally gone and the wish to build something new and strong by myself (and perhaps with NW) is stronger than ever.
I feel good!

[B-V2]

Hi F,

Hope you continue to feel good, and live in that moment and beyond!

Two questions for you:
1. Interesting what you wrote about you XW stating it to be time for her to put the pain and the hurt behind her. Does that therefore indicate that she has been in that state for about the last two+ years (as I am rather sure she must have had many months before BD of pain and hurt)?

2. Was there ever an (more permanent than just possible one night stands) OM/OP with your XW that you know/knew of, as I can not recall from your full thread?

[Fartiltre]

Still feeling good

I have had some days without the children and it has been great. I have had time with NW, friends and neighbors. I miss the children but I am getting so much better at this single parenting.

I have told friends about NW so I guess it is official now!
I feel like being in between. I do not want XW back but I still think about her and the past rather often – that makes me wonder if I am ready for a new serious and long term R. I do not want to wonder about this but I guess that all the knowledge I have gained makes this natural. I dissect the R/interactions with NW, evaluate, state my opinions, talks about my needs, ask about hers, I do not jump in to fix her issues and so on. The more I get to know her the better I think of her. She actually understands many of the views I have have learned DBing. She has been on her own journey and has learned much of the same but from a different angle.

XW and I do not communicate that much. It seems like XW have increased a bit and she is informing a bit more about what she and the Ds are doing. That is nice. All communication is nice and pleasant. I feel nothing towards her and that is actually awkward I some funny way. I wish her only good and hope that she is doing fine – just as I do with almost any person around me.

Tomorrow I have an appointment at shrink and I look forward to that. I will talk about NW and the feeling of not being ready and then I will talk about the children -how to guard them from further hurt and how to implement NW the best way possible.
Ds came home today and that is so great. They asked about NW and if she would come visit us today. They looked disappointed when I said no and had to tell them that she wouldn’t for some days because she is out of town with her mom.

1. Interesting what you wrote about you XW stating it to be time for her to put the pain and the hurt behind her. Does that therefore indicate that she has been in that state for about the last two+ years (as I am rather sure she must have had many months before BD of pain and hurt)?

As I interpreted XW she was (at this point) only talking about the time after BD. She has been sad and she has been hurting and my guess(mindreading) is that she still is and that she is wondering WTF happened to him(me). I believe this remark was only about this.
She hasn’t reached happiness yet and she wants to.
This is my words and mindreading but I believe it is how it is. Lot’s of WAWs expect to find happiness after they leave but they don’t. XW haven’t (as I see it) put in the effort and the work to turn things around for herself….maybe she will or maybe she wont…IDK
She was unhappy prior to BD and I believe for a long time (years). Looking back from where I am today – I was unhappy to!

2. Was there ever an (more permanent than just possible one night stands) OM/OP with your XW that you know/knew of, as I can not recall from your full thread?

None that I know of. In fact I believe she hasn’t even had a one night so far. When I told her about NW she said that she hadn’t even looked at anybody yet – and I have no reason not to believe her.
She didn’t leave me to be with another man – she left me to avoid being with me
(And now I am the kind of man she wants to be with (hers and friends words combined with some mindreading) – that might also cause some understandable hurt and anger within her)

[hotwheelsaust]

F, you are so right, along with many others before us. The WAS expect the future to be so much better for them was they have walked. How wrong most of them are. They view leaving us as being the only answer to their happiness, they don't work on themselves, and so much later they feel lost, unhappy and mindreading, wondering what happened.
I am so happy for you enjoying the time with the new woman. Like me, it is such an improvement to see the effort we have put in since BD when experiencing it with a new person.

[Fartiltre]

Just had a splendid weekend with the children. Good times!

NW and her mother was on a small trip this weekend and stopped in for coffee Sunday evening. Her mother only stayed for 45 min but NW slept here – still in guest room as a friend. Ds were so pleased to see her and S11 got to meet her for the first time.

Tomorrow NW, her son, me and S11 goes bowling. It is all still as friends but children are not stupid and off course they can see or feel something. It will be both mine and S11s first meetup with NWs son. I look forward to this but I am also a bit nervous since a lot is at stake now.

I had a long talk with shrink last week about NW and NW meeting my children and vice versa. She gave me some tips and then she explained about couples meeting up again after a long time. She thinks it is normal that things go rather quickly when there has been a connection earlier on in life.
We had a good talk about my life in general and the major shift I have experienced in my focus over the past 4-5 months. She seems pleased with the way I handle myself and life in general.

While NW and I seems to get a little closer every day – XW and I seems to drift further apart. Communication is solely about children, it is objective and short but still 100% pleasant and nice. She has pointed out that the children’s need to know about me and NW before they hear anything and I agree. Still I have no rush as only a few close people knows.
I am good with the way things are now!

HWA,
Thanks for stopping by
Always good to hear from you!

[lovethehub]

Fart,

I haven't been on in a while because my workload at school is too heavy but I was dismayed to read of NW,and of children meeting her already. I know it is not my place to judge, I was just very surprised. I always felt that W was giving you many signals that she wanted to work things out but you weren't picking up on them or were still in the original "must detach" mode. As for the children wanting you to be 'in love' with her, it most likely isn't HER but the fact that it gives them some semblance of a family. Your children are still hurting from your split and it is soon to be having NW spend the night when they are there. Even if she is in another bedroom, children are much wiser than we think.

F, you are so right, along with many others before us. The WAS expect the future to be so much better for them was they have walked. How wrong most of them are. They view leaving us as being the only answer to their happiness, they don't work on themselves, and so much later they feel lost, unhappy and mindreading, wondering what happened.

This is very interesting to me and I hope it doesn't leave you feeling 'justified' with your decision. I am not saying you need to feel either way but this statement says "The WAS was wrong. They thought they could it find it better elsewhere and they can't". If you really understand a WAS, yes, they feel this way but typically only after suffering for a long time from the negligence of the LBS, who wouldn't respond to their needs if they were dancing naked in front of them.

I am glad you are happy but please go slow and know what you are getting into. As someone else pointed out, you are feeling what the WAS feels when they have an A, or anyone is in a new relationship. I also agree with your friend who pointed out that they didn't think it was fair that you finally made the changes your W longed for and then she didn't even get a chance to experience them.

LTH

[sandi2]

Hope you are still doing well. Sure would love to have an update.

[hotwheelsaust]

Where are you F? We are missing you and wondering about you. Hope all is fine.

[hotwheelsaust]

F what is happening? You can talk about it. I am worried about you. Let us know you are at least safe.
F hasn't been on Facebook for over 6 weeks either.

[hotwheelsaust]

F, still waiting for you. Hope all is fine. Let us know that your are ok.