So Ive been seperated from my wife for almost a week now. We have been married almost 2 years. Our problems started about 8 months ago. We both work fulltime and she had started school for nursing. I was told that during the nursing program it would be hell on our M. I didnt know what they meant until it happened. She was going to school 4 days a week very early in the AM and working after that until about 10PM. I didnt have any issues with that other than the fact that she was spending so much time with her sister instead of me. She would always make excuses that she didnt have time to do anything other than work and school but still managed to make time for the sister. It caused major fighting between us. During this time she also found porn on the computer, which she hates and is disgusted by. It has always been a problem for me. Im pretty sure its on the level of addiction. This caused more major fighting that never got resolved. We have never had a great sex life and that could be due to me looking at porn, not sure. I have always been attracted to her just didnt feel like doing it most of the time. We had kind of stabilized for a few months but i decided to start going to the gym in an effort to make her more attracted to me as i thought this was the issue with not wanting to spend time together. This is the part where i really messed up. There was a group of us from work that went together, about 6 of us. Slowly it dwindled down to just me and another girl from work. So we would always work out together. One night after the gym I was sitting in this girl's car smoking because it was cold outside and her car was warmer than mine. I know that i shouldnt have done this, but i wasnt thinking correctly. The wife was apparently spying on me at the time...She came up to my work the next day and lost it. She asked the girl if we were having sex. Of course she said no because we were not. Which i also told the wife. This of course caused major issues for us for quite some time. Although right after that the wife took me to a sex shop and bought some toys and wanted to use them. I guess this was to show me that she was open to doing whatever, not sure. I thought we were going to be ok but it never went back to normal. We have been fighting off and on for the past few months now. The other night i asked her if she wanted to have sex, she said no. I got upset with this of course. We got in a big argument and she told me that she wasnt sure if we could make it or not. Of course i always asked her if she cant forgive me for issues then why doesnt she just get a divorce. This appears to have been a mistake. She told me that she didnt want a divorce but wanted to go stay with her parents for a while to see if we can miss each other enough to make this work. I agreed to this but when it came time to do so the next night I didnt do so well. I started crying and told her that I would get help with the porn thing and also go see a counselor and doctor about my massive mood swings. Thats another issue, she claims that i have always been mean to her throughout our relationship of ten years, 2 years of M. I realize that its a problem for me. I have been on anti depressants before and they worked until i had sexual side effects. I stopped taking them. She says during that time period that i was the nicest i have ever been to her. She left last Tuesday. I went to see a counselor on Thursday. Set up a doctors appointment for this tuesday, the earliest i could get in. I am serious about fixing myself. I know that I need some kind of help. When she left the last thing she said to me was to not give up and not doing anything stupid, a referrence to suicide. We talk on the phone almost every night since then. I dont ever call her. Ive been reading this site since it started. I dont text or email first. I try to be the first to say goodbye, doesnt always work. Always try to stay positive during the conversations. The problem is that when we talk it is never about anything that pertains to our R. She even goes as far as to tell me that she feels bad because she cant do anything with her friend next weekend because its her nephews graduation. Not that she feels bad or even requests to see me. She seems to be having the time of her life without me. I have not seen her since she left. I feel like this is very early on but I dont want her to forget about me. Its getting harder and harder to not lose my mind over this. I want to call her and I want to see her. She doesnt seem to be interested in any of that. All she took with her is work clothes, so I know that she will have to come back to get some of her stuff sooner or later. I have never been on this end of the R, always been the one with the power I guess you could say. I dont go out of my way to push dates or anything. It has always been her. This drastic change makes me think that things are not going to work out. Someone please give me some advice for this.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks for the response. Im trying to get a life. Getting out with friends, trying to be more socially open to new things, taking up a new hobby etc. The whole time though all I can think about is her. I push people away when I think she will call me so that I can be alone to talk to her. I started thinking about whether I would be able to make it without her today. The answer is yes that I could, I would be fine, but I dont want that. I have a doctor's appointment today so hopefully he will shed some light on my situation. In reality I want him to prescribe me some medicine. I know that depression is not good for me. Even without the R discussion, it has cost me a lot of friends and I'm sure fun times with them. I hate not feeling like doing things with anyone or leaving the house. Just seems that I dont have the motivation. I'm afraid to start working out again as the wife will think that I am going to meet that girl at the gym again. I refuse to even talk to her at all now.
I do have a question about the phone call thing though. Please dont regard me as lazy as of yet. I have ordered both DB/DR but they just shipped yesterday, not her yet. She calls me almost every night, but im not sure how to receive the times when she doesnt call me. Last night she just text me to tell me that she hopes my DR's appointment goes well and that She is going bed and loves me. I just text back "Thanks. I love you too." Should there be times when I dont answer the phone for her because I am "busy"? There is never a time when I dont want to talk to her. Ive started to try to actually listen to what she is saying. I wont claim to understand it in depth at all, but I'm trying. There has been no talk of the R since this time last week and I have not seen her since then either. Last night was the first time I had trouble sleeping. All I could do was think about her and the situation, wondering if she misses me. I pray every night now for her healing, very hard for me to say that I hope she is happy with or without me. Not even sure if I really have entertained the idea of her without me. I say it, but not sure if I truly mean it yet.
So I went to the doctor today and he put me on Wellbutrin. Says it should be much better than Paxil. The wife did text me right after the appointment to ask me how it went. I told her that it went well and that I was excited because it also has the possibility to help me stop smoking. This isnt anything that was an issue for us because we both smoke. We have always talked about quitting but never really have. I know that Im supposed to try to detach and live as if she is not coming back, but I keep thinking that I could at least tell her that I miss her and maybe that would help. I have not told her that at all since the split.
I also wanted to get a couple of people's feelings toward a letter of reconciliation. I have read about them a lot on Christian based postings about losing your wife. Are they a disaster waiting to happen?
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Can you please elaborate on this Cadet? I'm not sure that I can put it to context here.
I messed up last night. I had gone out to eat with my brother and his wife. I came home EXPECTING to get a call or something from her. I know that Im not supposed to have expectations, but we always talk at night. Last night was the first night that she didnt call or text or anything. It drove me nuts. I couldnt sleep at all. I know that Im not supposed to initiate conversations with her, but I couldnt help but to text her. I told her "I miss you and I love you. Good night. This morning I get a text back saying "I was already asleep
I love you too." Nothing about missing me or anything...Im so lost right now. This was supposed to be a separation to hopefully miss each other and work it out.
I'm having a hard time coming up with ideas for GAL. I dont have that many friends anymore outside of one great one and my brother, who I am very close with. I dont have much that comes to mind really.
oh man you have got to try Qigong. It is like tai-chi plus acupuncture and is a great destresser, exercise that science has found can help manage diabetes, back problems, immune deficiencies. When I first entered this WAW hell I started it and it is my fave. plus it incorporates visualization meditation, a great skill to nurture when you have a broken heart. also ultimate frisbee. or if you are real adventerous Meetup.com sometimes has a "first time" club where a bunch of people do brand new experiences, you guessed it for the first time. pretty liberating i hear, i am signing up. Stay strong
That all sounds very interesting and it is a big step for me to even consider doing something like this. Thanks for the response, looking up Qigong right now.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Can you please elaborate on this Cadet? I'm not sure that I can put it to context here.
It is a general rule that I would say applies all the time.
You gave things that you feel you have done wrong that are the "CAUSE" of this marital breakup.
And you should work on those things.
They may or may not FIX your marriage.
However your wife also is the cause of some of these issues and the breakup of your marriage.
Marriage is 50/50 and you can not give more than 100% of your 1/2 of the marriage, she must also do the same.
You can not FIX her half, she must do that.
Seems to me that communication is a problem in your marriage.
Maybe your wife is not being as honest as you think.
Maybe there are some CONTROL issues at work here and also co-dependcy.
So why do you feel that what I wrote does not apply?
Went to the C today. We discussed what was going on between us and he wants me to invite her to come next time. Anyone have any suggestions as to how to do this without coming accross as needy or clningy. Also DB and DR are both supposed to arive today and i also picked up 5LL(Men's edition) and Hope for the Seperated. So Im super excited for lunch break and getting off work tonight.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Can you please elaborate on this Cadet? I'm not sure that I can put it to context here.
It is a general rule that I would say applies all the time.
You gave things that you feel you have done wrong that are the "CAUSE" of this marital breakup.
And you should work on those things.
They may or may not FIX your marriage.
However your wife also is the cause of some of these issues and the breakup of your marriage.
Marriage is 50/50 and you can not give more than 100% of your 1/2 of the marriage, she must also do the same.
You can not FIX her half, she must do that.
Seems to me that communication is a problem in your marriage.
Maybe your wife is not being as honest as you think.
Maybe there are some CONTROL issues at work here and also co-dependcy.
So why do you feel that what I wrote does not apply?
I wasnt saying that what you wrote doesnt apply. I was saying that I didnt know exactly what that means or how I can apply this to whats going on. By no means do I think that my situation is unique. I do agree that she has also caused some of the issues in our marriage and I dont think i understood that before doing alot of reading. Im praying that she is willing to admit some fault here and that she is also willing to work on fixing things.
Don't ask her. She doesn't want to be with you right now because of your past behaviors. Change yourself into a better person first.
Don't ask her. She doesn't want to be with you right now because of your past behaviors. Change yourself into a better person first.
I trust your judgement, however, she asked me last time i went if the C wanted her to come. I told her the C asked if she was willing to come and i said yes. She reaffirmed it when i said that.
I wasnt saying that what you wrote doesnt apply.
I was saying that I didnt know exactly what that means or how I can apply this to whats going on.
By no means do I think that my situation is unique.
I do agree that she has also caused some of the issues in our marriage and I dont think i understood that before doing alot of reading.
Im praying that she is willing to admit some fault here and that she is also willing to work on fixing things.
As Mr Bond said above she might be willing to admit to some fault but it will be years down the road.
Not right now.
So as far as how this applies to you, it is exactly what it says
Believe none of what she says and Half of what she does.Another words ACTIONS not WORDS.
And I would say the same thing to her, to believe YOUR actions not YOUR words.
So if you want to speak to her use actions to communicate not words.
Does that make sense?
Yeah that makes sense. I just really didnt think it would take years to get her to admit that she did anything wrong here. I would like to point out that she has never said she was done and/or wanted a D. This whole thing was just to see if we would miss each other. Just the brief amount of stuff I have read so far I am learning so much. I am a relationship retard.
Just the brief amount of stuff I have read so far I am learning so much. I am a relationship retard.
Yea - most of us are when we get here.
By the time you graduate you have your PHD.
After you read DB/DR
Look for a book called the five love languages,
you may even be able to read about it on line or get it from the library.
I bought 5LL(Men's edition). That will be next on my list. Im about halfway through Hope for the Seperated right now.
I need some advice still on how to handle phone calls/texts.
-Should I sometimes not answer and maybe text back a little later to see whats up?
-Should i let her be the last to text me?
I need some advice still on how to handle phone calls/texts.
-Should I sometimes not answer and maybe text back a little later to see whats up?
-Should i let her be the last to text me?
Have your read these - especially #2 ?
I think that will validate what you are saying above.
So a bad night last night. I was dumb enough to ask if the time off has made her miss me. She immediately became defensive and told me how she has been stress free the whole time and that she was happy being there with her family.
Dont worry I wasnt done making mistakes
I proceeded to read her lines from the book Hope for the Seperated. The passage basically says that it is wrong in God's eyes to seperate and then went on to say that if we were seperating to being back feelings that it was futile. I only attempted this because she and I are both Christians and thought it would spark some thought with her. I told her that i didnt think the seperation was having the right effect as we dont even see each other in passing at all. I literally have not seen her in a week and a half. She told me that she figured we could go on a date and see how we felt about each other then. I asked when she had planned on this "supposed" date happening and she said she didnt know. Then she thought about it for a minute and told me we could go on a date next Sunday night. I was surprised that she actually said that.
Against good advice...I asked her if she wanted to join me for next weeks MC. She asked if the C wanted her to come in. I said that he did. She said ok very hesitant. I then decided for some reason that it was a good idea to tell her that she would need to have an open mind or it wouldnt work. She completely blamed me for everything at this point. I just told her that I understand that I caused her this much pain. I tried not to apologize again as I have already done this a bunch of times. She told me she was getting tired but I kept her on the phone about another 5 minutes trying to get some clarification for myself. She told me she would call me today on her way to work. I told her she didnt have to do that. Then she blew up again and asked me why couldnt I just say ok and let it go. So i said ok. When she called me today though, she was mad from the word hello. I asked her what was wrong and she told me that she just had a bad morning, nothing was going right, her hair and clothes(thinks that she is fat). She told me it wasnt me when i asked if this was her still being mad from last night. The old me would have never let that go and not believed her. But I thought about it for a minute and told myself that she was being honest and was just having a bad day already. So I have some hope that I can start to see progress in my changes already. I am finding it a little easier to manage my anger as well. I didnt start yelling at her at all while she was angry. I felt myself start to get that feeling of anger but was able to stop myself from saying anything mean or yelling. It still was not a pleasant conversation though. I could feel her anger through the phone. It was very intense and for the first time I felt like maybe I would do her a favor if I left her alone because it isnt that healthy for her to feel that anger and not be able to release it. Like maybe I should just not talk to her at all just so she doesnt have to feel that anger.
[/quote]
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2250607#Post2250607Have your read these - especially #2 ?
I think that will validate what you are saying above.[/quote]
Yes I have read those several times, which is why I dont call her at all or send texts first. So youre saying that you think that it is a good idea then to not always answer the phone?
Hiya, Ben!
Sorry to find you here under those circumstances, but you cannot find a more supportive community than here in the DB forum.
All newbies stumble on how to validate their wayward spouses in the first few weeks/months. All's not lost! There's a helpful resource right here for you.
You might want to check this thread out on proper validation:
Validation: Cheat Sheet Keep going here...come back here often and post. In order to get more traffic back to your thread, I'd suggest that you post in other DBer's threads that you like and resonate with you. It is a buddy system here.
Good luck!
"I trust your judgement, however, she asked me last time i went if the C wanted her to come. I told her the C asked if she was willing to come and i said yes. She reaffirmed it when i said that."
Okay, BUT you have to see what her frame of mind is when she says this. Many WASs will say they want to go to C with the LBS just so they can tell the C that they are done and to show that they are "right".
Only go if she is willing to save the marriage. Never before.
You are right Mr Bond. She seemed uneasy about it last night and I was honestly just TRYING to make sure she knew that she was welcome and wanted in C. I felt that I needed to do this because she has a hard time admitting defeat meaning I think that she would see her asking to come to C with me as a defeat in this situation. I dunno maybe Im doing some mindreading here. I did tell her that it was an open invitation though and that I would not push her to go.
Only go if she is willing to save the marriage. Never before.
So youre saying that I should not agree to go to C with her until she has shown that she wants to actively work on the marriage then?
Yes. I've only seen it work in very rare occasions where the WAS goes to C and it actually helps them. Maybe get personalized MC from MWD together. That might be a good start. You might want to also look up Joe Beam.
And definitely read DB/DR as soon as possible. There is no shortcut to this. Keep changing yourself.
Whenever a woman has too much stress to handle, something is going to break. Some people react by taking their anger out on the one closest to them. Unfortunately, you provided your W with ammunition by the porn and the being alone with another woman. It is going to take more than a couple of weeks for her to move past all of this, b/c of the state she's in right now.
The best thing for you to do is step back and leave her alone. Yes, it will be very difficult. However, as long as you say "but I couldn't help myself" you will not progress. You can help yourself! You cannot pursue her during this time. She is extremely stressed, angry, and unhappy. Time is your friend. Time helps to heal. So stop talking...and back away.
Don't worry so much over answering the phone. The point is to be less available. If she should call you, then for goodness sake.....don't yell at her. And.....do NOT ask if she misses you yet or if she loves you, etc. And don't tell her how lonely you are and how sorry you are ......again. Just talk upbeat and try to cheer her up, b/c if she feels good after talking to you, then she'll probably do it again.
Now, if there is another man in the picture, it changes things.
Set personal goals how you can improve yourself as a man. Learn all you can about DBing.
I know you have the urge to share with her what you read/learn, however, it is a bad idea, especially reading something that sounds preachy. Even a Christian WAW doesn't like it from her H when it's aimed at her. You can't help her like that. It comes across like you are pointing out she's bad and God isn't happy with her. If I had been in her shoes, I would have been ticked! So many times a LBH can sound self-righteous when talking to his WAW. I'm sure you didn't have that intent, but it was like pouring gas on the fire.
Your job is to work on yourself and pray for yourself and for her. But it is not your job to say or do something to spark her into thinking of returning to you. Let God use this time to do a work on you, and hopefully, her too. Sometimes, a separation helps a young couple to get their heads clear and realize what they really want. But it does take time. She is tired and overworked. She's really wanting some relief. Don't make things harder by pressing her, b/c I promise....you will be on the losing end.
Btw, what are your ages?
She did mention possibly going to a C by herself. I told her that I thought it might be a good idea so that she could let off some of her aggression and anger. I dont think I have the money for a DB coach yet let alone a personalized session with MWD. I dont disagree with the idea and i know it would be money well spent, I just dont have it yet. The books i thought would be there yesterday but maybe today, shipped 3 days ago. I have been reading some Chapman books in the meantime, Hope for the Seperated and started 5LL(mens edition).
Youre right Sandi, I think I may have misjudged how much this has hurt her. I am not very good at communication with my wife, not much of a surprise for most of us. I thought I was doing well for not even talking about the R for over a week now, but I blew it. There is no OM in the picture. I am working as hard as I can to fix these problems with myself. I am also trying to develop a better relationship with God. I pray for her healing every night. I know she prays for me too. I am 33 and she is 30. And I see what you mean about being self-righteous, I have no right to be that way. She has been a Christian her whole life and led a "cleaner" life than I. I have only been a Christian about 3 years.
I think I will just work on GAL right now and contiune reading and C. Let her talk to me when she is ready. I still dont know what to do about this date next Sunday. I dont think I am ready for that yet, but I wouldnt want to decline and have her think that I dont want to go. Because more than anything I do want it.
I am sorry that you find yourself in this situation. I know you said that you are seeing a counselor. However, I strongly urge you to talk to a Divorce Busting Coach. We spealize in helping you focus on your marriage, relationship goals and getting your marriage back on track. PLease call me to discuss our coaching program. This week we are offering a one session discount through Friday. 303-444-7004
Another issue I wanted to bring up and get some advice on is about her family. How is she ever going to be able to make the decision to come back with everyone in her family(besides one person) telling her to leave me? She is living with them right now.
Ok so she and I got on the discussion of going to church because I told her that the preacher called and left me a voicemail. This is the same one that she did not want me discussing our problems with because he will tell everyone and she thinks that he takes my side. I told her that eventually hes gonna ask why im not there. She told me that the separation did not mean that I couldnt come to church. I told her that I would probably go to another church that we sometimes go to. She asked why. I told her that I was trying to give her the space she wanted. She again said that i didnt need to do that. I told her i will probably just go to the other church again. She said "ok" very frustrated like.
Here is my question on this. Should I go to church in the morning (which I never do and she wanted me to) as a possible 180? Or should I not because it would seem like pursuing/desperation? She will probably assume that Im lying if it comes up and i tell her that I went to the other church because of my past record. i really am trying to become a better Christian for me, but at the same time, I havent seen her in a week and a half. I had planned on not sitting by her and arriving early so that I didnt have to sit with her family. I dont want to make it awkward for her. After service I would leave and not go to the bible study as we are in the same class and i would have to sit 3 inches from her. Any help is much appreciated.
Ben,
Let's turn the thinking on this just a bit. You seem to be struggling with this and I'd contend that W has given you a great gift. She's given you a 2x4, but she wants this to work out.
Here is why:
1) She's asked you to change.
2) She's given you the space to change.
3) She didn't give you the ILYBINILWY bit. In fact, from what you write, it seems she'll readily tell you that she loves you and is willing to communicate frequently.
4) There is no OM.
5) No D papers served, no talk of Ls. I'm not sure you've written that W has talked of D.
This all points to W wanting things to change for the better in the M. So you can only control you. Are there things you can change about you to make M better?
Related to the C, in my opinion, you need to work with C on you first. My C wanted to talk a lot about the M in our sessions. That's understandable, but the focus should be on you and where you are. I'd even suggest you continue individually with your C, and when W is ready, find a MC to work with. This allows you to focus on you with your C, and eliminates any idea that C may be biased.
A couple other items:
1) Nightly call - let her make it. Give her this. If she skips a night, let it go. This will look like pressure/pursuing if you are contacting her.
2) Church - If W is saying you don't have to change what you do, don't, or if she wants you at a service, go. Use this as the opportunity to go and be the happiest, best Ben you can be. Show her the Ben she fell in love with. She will let you know if she doesn't want you there or if it is causing pressure.
3) Date - You've already committed. Go and be the happiest, best Ben you can be. But DO NOT talk about how you've changed. She has to see change.
4) Family - You can't control her family, so as hard as this is, there is nothing you can do.
Admire W for the courage this took and take advantage of the opportunity you've been given. Based upon what you've written, I think W wants this to work. Be patient and make the changes. If you do this, the worst thing that will happen is that Ben will be a better, happier person in the end.
First question......when or how did this discussion come about? Who made the contact?
A preacher who tells church members personal business is not good! If you can't trust him to keep things confidential, I suggest you not share with him. This is very touchy for your W, and I can see why. As far as him taking your side.........that may just be her VP.
Has she known him a longer than you have? Have you had a close relationship with him, or shared any other experiences with him?
If he should take it upon himself to talk to your WAW, I doubt she will be very receptive. And, I don't think you should ask him to talk to her, b/c of how she feels toward him.
Attending church is a personal decision that the individual has to make. However, I don't suggest you try to show her a 180 by going to the same place Sunday. I can see several reasons how it would not be in your favor, but mainly b/c your thoughts would probably be on her & her family, instead of worship.
In other words, don't go to church to make brownie points with her, but neither go to another church trying to avoid her. Don't miss going somewhere, b/c you need the spiritual encouragement.
So, pray about it and seek God's guidance.
Thank you for all your encouragement Nettles. That helps a lot. My mind cant seem to stop picking everything apart and find hidden meanings. When you break it down like that it doesnt sound as bad.
She has said she thought she wasnt in love with me before. She did not say that during this separation thing though.
No she has never said that she wants a D. I have asked her and she always says no. But she does say that she doesnt know if we can work this out or not.
There are things that I can change to make the M better. Im doing a lot of reading and practicing communication with coworkers. Im also seeing the C to address the anger issues I have. Went to the Dr. to get put on anti-depressants, they wont take effect until next week sometime i dont think though, wish it was now...
I wouldnt call our communication frequent though. She sometimes just texts to say good night i love you. She has done some kind of communication every day though except one.
I have decided to not go to morning service tomorrow. I will go to night service as usual and see how that goes. If it goes ok then I will start morning service next week.
About the date, I dont have any expectations that she will go. I am trying to tell myself that she wont, so that i wont get let down. She will probably just tell me that she forgot we had that planned or something. Although it is after church on Sunday next week, so kinda hard to forget.
Thanks again Nettles for giving me a positive outlook on things, you have no idea how much it means at a time like this for me.
She called me, but if youre talking about the preacher, then he also called me. I did not answer his call and he left me a voicemail wondering why he hadnt seen me last sunday. I just asked the W what should i do when he asks me why im not there. Thats when she told me that I didnt need to go elsewhere. I dont buy into the preacher telling everyone what he knows. I think she just used that as a coverup for her not wanting to talk to him because he takes my side. She has known him for a few more years than me. I like him because he was part of our pre-M C. He was great but I did feel like he maybe took my side often.
I will not tell him what is going on. I dont want to put any pressure on the W. I will just say that I had some issues last sunday.
I think you misunderstood what i was saying. We go to the same church, but I usually dont go to the morning service, which she has always wanted me to. We go to a different church if something comes up and we need to be somewhere because they have different service times.
I will not go to church for brownie points but I would like to start going to morning service. I have read a lot and see that it might help to put this in God's hands. I need him more than ever right now. My idea for going to morning service in order to not look fake i think will just need to be something that i do consistently.
Thanks for the response Sandi. I would be lost without you all.
Thank you for all your encouragement Nettles. That helps a lot. My mind cant seem to stop picking everything apart and find hidden meanings. When you break it down like that it doesnt sound as bad.
I hope it helps you to focus on you. You've written about depression and anger. Get those under control. And you aren't the first, and won't be the last, to have to deal with those. I was right there too. But my W's 2x4 (BD, hiding with kids, D served, PO) changed me. This'll change you if you want it to.
She has said she thought she wasnt in love with me before. She did not say that during this separation thing though.
Before BD, my W loved me but was probably not in love with me and I know she didn't respect me. And do you know how I earned her respect back? By changing. But a key was that I changed for me, not for her. I don't want you to confuse the gift she's given you with the reason you should change, Ben. You should want to change to be a better, happier you.
No she has never said that she wants a D. I have asked her and she always says no. But she does say that she doesnt know if we can work this out or not.
I noticed you wrote "always". I take that to mean you've asked more than once. If so, stop. Don't ask again. She's given the answer, move on.
She says she doesn't know if you can work this out or not because she needs changes from you and she can't control that. The good news is that you can control your changes. But who should the changes be for? You have to be happy with you and own your own happiness. That's why I say the changes are for you, not her.
There are things that I can change to make the M better. Im doing a lot of reading and practicing communication with coworkers. Im also seeing the C to address the anger issues I have. Went to the Dr. to get put on anti-depressants, they wont take effect until next week sometime i dont think though, wish it was now...
Great! Keep it up. Every practice or reading or improvement, come here and journal and let us know. But don't tell her. She has to see it. The pressure-free environment she has right now is what she wants with you. So every time you see her, be the Ben she fell in love with.
I wouldnt call our communication frequent though. She sometimes just texts to say good night i love you. She has done some kind of communication every day though except one.
Let her initiate things. Each communication from her is a blessing, but a lack of communication means nothing. I'm betting this isn't easy on her either. The last time you saw her, did she look thinner?
About the date, I dont have any expectations that she will go. I am trying to tell myself that she wont, so that i wont get let down. She will probably just tell me that she forgot we had that planned or something. Although it is after church on Sunday next week, so kinda hard to forget.
It is good that you have no expectations about the date, but don't try to predict the future on whether it happens or not. If it happens, don't expect anything, just go and have a relaxed, nice time with conversation about her and how she is doing. Validate, listen and be patient.
Thanks again Nettles for giving me a positive outlook on things, you have no idea how much it means at a time like this for me.
I know I write like it is so easy, but I know how hard it is Ben. I know that feeling in your gut that won't go away. Continue to work on what you need to work on. It is the path.
Ben,
No she has never said that she wants a D. I have asked her and she always says no. But she does say that she doesn't know if we can work this out or not.
This is a positive. She's conflicted and confused so I'd suggest that you back off. Continue focusing on YOU and use the time wisely to become the man you've always wanted to be so you'll be proud of YOURSELF.
You cannot worry about what W does or doesn't do. It has zero bearing on you and your goals.
So I went to church last night. Had a new shirt and pants that I bought so that I could walk in there with some confidence. I arrived early so that I could sit in the back and let her choose to sit with me if she wanted. She arrived late and did come sit with me. She didnt say anything the whole time other than "Hi". It was the best hour of my entire week. I was just happy to be around her. Im finding it very hard to detach. Coincidentally, the sermon was about reaping what you sow...When church was over we walked outside and talked for a few minutes about her weekend. I told her that she looked good and like she lost weight. She told me that she didnt lose weight, maybe she gained some. She told me that she liked my new shirt. She seemed to be in a hurry to leave and said she was going to pick up her niece. Told me she would call me that night or tomorrow. Did not get a call from her. When I got home I may have made a mistake. She texted me on her way home and asked me if she hit a curb while driving, that is a joke between us that I always tell her she hit the curb, she says she didnt. I texted her back "lol shut up". When I got home I decided that since she was in a joking mood that I would text her. I said "Im sorry but you looked very sexy". I immediately regretted it. I got no response from her and sat and thought about what a dummy I was all night. I broke down into tears, which I dont really cry. Thats when the pain of the whole thing sets in. I hope that Im just overthinking this.
Anytime you think you want to reach out to her, read Sandi's 37 rules. Each and every time ok?
Ben,
So you've hit a speed bump here....
She texted me on her way home and asked me if she hit a curb while driving, that is a joke between us that I always tell her she hit the curb, she says she didnt. I texted her back "lol shut up". When I got home I decided that since she was in a joking mood that I would text her. I said "Im sorry but you looked very sexy". I immediately regretted it. I got no response from her and sat and thought about what a dummy I was all night.
As you know by now, any personal references to W's looks or body or whatever, zip it. When husbands get a positive response from their wives, they want more and more. The true test of a DBer is to be light and breezy. And short!
You'd have left W with a positive impression if you had left it at "lol. shut up"
We've all experienced this at one time in our early DBing. Yep...I've done my share of that crap too. It just comes across as clingy and leering. Not good.
Lesson learned. Dust yourself off and get back to GALing.
Hi Ben
we all do it.. it seems to be getting better and we forget what a fragile thing it is..
Light and breezy even when it hurts
Small contacts ..and boy doesn't that hurt..
waited today for a call.. finally a text .. call tomorrow.. but that is better than before when it was a grudging "what do you want " or silence..
Hard as it seems the space and lack of contact can help..hang in there..
It just feels so unnatural to treat my own W as a friend. I hate this. Thats pretty much spot on though. It feels like 2 weeks of work down the drain. I can do ok for a while and then she calls me and talks for 45 minutes and gets me right back on the hook.
arrrrrghhh. I totally agree with everyone here. Follow my policy: when WAW looks hot just turn around with this stupid grin, grab the nearest readable book and start laughing like crazy. Completely weirds her out. Detach away dawgs....
Lol are you sure thats the best method. Not sure she wouldnt think im nuts then.
Does anyone else have issues with loss of appetite? I find myself very rarely hungry. I think I have eaten a can of Dinty Moore beef stew and one hotdog since friday. I try to force it but it just makes me sick.
Can't eat either.
Except there's this weird middle-of-the-night granola binge thing now.
That's what I meant about knowing the feeling in the gut that won't go away. You can't eat and it is hard to sleep.
What is your favorite thing to eat? Try to mix in some comfort food until you get your appetite back. Also, if you needed to lose some weight, spin it to a positive. You are on the most effective diet known to man (or woman). Guaranteed to work every time!
I had very little appetite for a few weeks after BD. I would eat a few bites, or just push food around on my plate. It's back to normal now though. I know that it doesn't seem like it will get any better, but it does.
Hey
well it suited me lost 22 kilos, started training for marathons.. best shape in my entire adult life.. but I still hate it..
and as to treating them as friends.. well I don't count people who make me as unhappy as he does as a friend.. not sure what he is but friend it isn't..
my problem is to remember he does not want to be married.. when we are together it mostly seems fine. then something weirds him out and he remembers..
I try to remember that each time I want to contact and don't that it is step in the detaching direction and that is a good thing because he sure isn't going to want to come back while I am tracking him down.. like taming a wild bird.. patience..
and I muck it often but have seen some small glimmers of improvement while I have been more disciplined..
waiting for a call now.. I will not call or remind him.. if he calls it is a win, if it doesn't it is a win because it will make him wonder. or show him I am not needy and clingy...
Ben,
For me my appetite went away for 2-3 weeks. Then it comes back and everything is fine again. It will pass.
Shoot, Ben. This reminds me of this book that I have patented and copyrighted through the US Patent Office.
The LBS Diet To qualify for this special from yours truly, you must meet at least 50% of the following criteria:
-Your spouse is having an affair
-Your spouse is having MLC
-Your spouse dropped the bomb in the last 30-days
-Free membership to the DB website
-Agree to sign disclosure form to absolve Wonka of all responsibility forever for gory pictures contained within the diet book
-Guaranteed weight loss in the first 6 months of bomb dropping
Oh and the shipping costs will be charged to the WAS for "emotional duress, distress."
Lol thats hilarious man. I think you should market that for sure.
In all seriousness though, in the last 2 weeks that we have been separated, i have eaten a total of 5 meals and one twix bar. I have gotten about 40 hours of sleep in that amount of time. So far Ive lost 12 lbs.
So I asked her if she would come over and we could have a talk last night. She agreed to it but not without getting really snippy and asking about what. I just told her the whole situation. I had given up on her coming over about the time that she pulled up. She asked me to come down to her car. I have a feeling that she didnt want to come in the apartment because she thinks that I would just keep talking and not let her leave. So I went down to her car and she made small talk for a bit. Didnt seem to be in a bad mood but seemed really tired and stressed out. I let her finish what she wanted to talk about and then I told her this:
"I dont want this to come off as mean or anything, but I cant play these games anymore. It seems that we arent getting anywhere with talking because it just turns into a fight. I dont think we should talk anymore until you are ready to work on the M."
To my surprise that opened the flood gates. She wasnt yelling or anything but she told me everything that bothered her. I sat back and listened validating some of it. Admitting that she had every right to feel that way. She of course said the usual "why didnt you try and fix this before." I told her that i understood her frustration with it but that it was better late than never. She also told me that she wasnt sure if my changes were going to last. I said "these changes are for me, I want to be a better person for me, if you happen to be there then you will benefit as well." She also explained that she was just afraid that it would go back to the same thing. I told her that I understood that too, but that I was in this for the long haul. We discussed the 5LL which surprisingly she read already. I told her that it opened my eyes and that it could be so simple for us to have a happy M. She said that she has tried to tell me before so many times and even tried to get me to read the book. I do remember that, I told her that I was just an idiot and didnt understand what was going on or what I was doing. I also said that anyone who gets married should have to read that book first. She ended the night by driving me up to the door and asking if she should call me in a week or so. I said "no you should call me when you are ready to work on the R." She hugged me and that was the night.
Overall I felt pretty good about it. Now is the hard part though. I have to make sure that I dont contact her at all until she calls me. I want her to get a real look at what a S or D would be like and see if thats really what she wants. I know its early on for me, but sometimes you have to play for all the marbles.
Thanks! I cant wait to hear how many mistakes I made from the vets on here lol.
Tut, tut...Ben. We're not that mean or awful!
Good job!
Wow!
I think you're absolutely right about not contacting her right now. Let her think about it. You're going to have to be strong!
You dont see any issues with what i did?
Okay, I'll bite since you asked nicely, Ben.
What I would like for you to do is to do your own de-briefing here and think back on what aspects you could have improved on.
-What did you learn from this interaction?
-Which part(s) that you wish for a do-over?
-What were the take-aways from W's comments?
Okay, I'll bite since you asked nicely, Ben.
What I would like for you to do is to do your own de-briefing here and think back on what aspects you could have improved on.
-What did you learn from this interaction?
I think that I learned that being a pushover and letting the W do what she wants all the time right now is the wrong move. I also learned alot about what she thinks is wrong with the R. First time that she ever admitted any fault.
-Which part(s) that you wish for a do-over?
I dont know about that one yet. Ill have to think about it and get back to you.
-What were the take-aways from W's comments?
I think that I got to feel how much pain she was in and that it seemed to me like she was scared more than anything. Seems like she is putting up a barrier and is very scared of letting me in. I feel very ashamed that my W is scared of me. In fact just typing this is bringing tears to my eyes thinking about it.
Ok Wonka, I think the part that I would do over if I could would be to tell her that she can come "see" me when shes ready to talk about the R. Our face to face convos are much better than on the phone. But I guess if she calls me I can ask her to come over so we can talk about it.
"I dont want this to come off as mean or anything, but I cant play these games anymore. It seems that we arent getting anywhere with talking because it just turns into a fight. I dont think we should talk anymore until you are ready to work on the M."
Why did you use "play these games" here? I don't see anything in your posts that reads like W is playing games. What games is she playing?
I think what you said above and the ending of your convo may lead to issues. She may think that you are putting it on her. The middle portion of the convo was well done. You'll have to stay with those points and validate when she is ready to talk again.
I said play these games because she didnt want to do NC at first. Said that she wanted to talk on the phone. So sometimes she tells me that she is going to call and doesnt call or text or anything. i call that a game. It is on her to decide what she wants to do here. She didnt argue the games part of this. I dont know what specific parts you think will cause an issue?
Ben, when I was the WAW, almost everything my H tried to do applied pressure to me. And when I felt pressure, I drew farther away from him. These types of talks causes pressure on her. Many LBH's tell the WAW something b/c they are looking for an reaction. However, it seldom is the reaction they wanted.
In a way, you have placed pressure on yourself by telling her to contact you when she's ready to work on the M. That means you cannot contact her. You can't have another talk with her, thinking it will cause her to want to reconcile sooner.
How successful this discussion has been is yet to be determined by you and how much you keep away from her. You only thought it had been tough before! Now it starts getting down to the pain.
The WAW has to feel freedom. That is a test of your love for her.....to let her be. It doesn't mean giving her a D, it just means leaving her alone without you trying to influence her decision. If she feels you aren't pressing her, and you GAL while improving yourself.....then I believe there's a chance for this M. Again, you don't tell her this. You live it. It's up to her to decide.
So, what are you going to do to help yourself get through those times you are hurting and lonely.....wanting to reach out to her? You'd better have a plan in place b/c you cannot depend upon your emotions to carry you through this.
I didnt look at it that way, but I see what youre saying here. I looked at it as a withdrawal from her. I am in pain really badly right now. It also doesnt help that the Wellbutrin that Im on causes me not to get sleep. The one positive that I took out of this was that she finally talked to me about the issues without yelling or getting angry. I know that I cant contact her now. Its going to be very hard on me. In my mind I feel like she is out living it up and Im stuck here dealing with this and it hurts so bad. I dont have a plan really, I have my brother and one good friend to rely on with this. They have both been very understanding and helpful in listening to me through this so far. I will try to keep myself busy at work and hopefully figure a sleep solution so that I dont have to sit and wonder what shes doing. I pray for the strength to make it through this.
What am I supposed to do about the Church thing now that I have done this?
Ben,
I know exactly how you're feeling. I went one month of NC with my WAW. I couldn't sleep either. Go to your doctor and see if he can prescribe something to help you sleep.
Without sleep, the depression gets worse drastically.
As much as you don't beleive it, I don't think your WAW is out living it up. My WAW started posted all kinds of fun pics on Facebook like she was having a blast (her eyes looked empty though, like she was faking everything). She finally texted me on Monday and told me that "life felt weird". Just goes to show that this isn't easy for the WAW either.
Prepare yourself my friend, this is going to be the hardest part of your journey. Every single time you think you are going to backslide, come post your thoughts here so we can talk you off the ledge and help prevent you making a mistake.
I appreciate it Thornton. I dont know if I could make it a month without talking to my W. called the Doctor to see if he could help me but I havent gotten a call back from him yet. I read that its pretty common when taking Wellbutrin. She just has such a huge support group that I dont have. She has her whole family to keep her busy and not thinking about me. I have to think about her all the time and it [censored]. Im very worried about how I will deal with this part of it. I think if I can stay strong and not backslide then I might have a chance here.
Your situation mirrors mine. My WAW is surrounded by her mother, sisters, and tons of friends. Her support system is massive.
You can make it. Just take one day at a time and listen to what the vets have to say here. They will challenge you but it's for your own good.
There will be times that you fail. Dust yourself off, LEARN from your mistake and keep going.
It seems that everyday now I break down into tears thinking that she will not come back. i havent even begun to detach. I can somewhat fake it in front of her, but im sure she can still tell. She told me that everyone she talks to tells her to get out of the R. That is a huge obstacle to overcome. For one she has told everyone what is going on. For two I think it will be very hard for her to justify coming back to me when everyone tells her not to. The only thing in my favor is her SIL that tells her that she has no biblical right for a divorce or separation. I thought that would be a big thing in my favor since her whole family is Christian, but it doesnt seem to matter. Im also second guessing whether I did this too soon or not. I felt good about it yesterday and right after I did it, but now im not so sure.
Ben,
5 days ago, you responded that W has never mentioned D. Is that still true? If no, go to 1 below; if yes, go to 2 below:
1. Chill out.
2. Chill out.
Your first post was about W telling you she needed changes. Your last post about your convo with W was about her fear that changes wouldn't last.
Keep working at the changes. Keep working on you. Forget about her support structure and people telling her to get out. Even with the changes, W may not come back. But there is no way she's coming back without you keeping up with your changes.
You are in a good spot. W has detailed out what she wants and hasn't talked D. It is in your hands. You can do this.
My WAW has said to me several times that "alot of people have told her to leave me" but I think WAW keep mentioning that to justify their insecurities. Found this mentioned on a thread here about detachment. Good article
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/Try not to go to self pity, fortune telling, fears and what ifs...anxiety is a waste of time and depletes your already low resources PMA by GALing...all stuff you already know. Let your second guessing go about what you already did. Its done. Stay patient bud. Week is not over yet...or a month...no expectations.
Digg deep and soldier on Ben, you can do it bro
Thanks guys for keeping my mind in check. Im sure you both know what im going through. I dont feel like doing anything right now at all except laying on the couch. I am going to try to start p90x or insanity this weekend. Im also thinking about starting to play frisbee golf again. I used to enjoy it but the people i played with stopped playing. Trying to get my brother involved in it. I know i should chill out, just hard to not focus on that.
Yep, everything you're feeling and going through is pretty much par for the course. It [censored].
Definitely do P90x or Insanity. You won't feel like doing it but you have to push yourself.
I like to workout at the gym, always have. When the bomb dropped, I had to literally force myself to go. Once I even had to cut my workout short because I was afraid I was going to start crying in front of 50 meatheads, no bueno.
But I keep going and it does help.
Ben,
Let's dissect your convo with W with the goal of learning about the WAW mind and using validation skills effectively. Ok?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So I asked her if she would come over and we could have a talk last night. She agreed to it but not without getting really snippy and asking about what. I just told her the whole situation. I had given up on her coming over about the time that she pulled up. She asked me to come down to her car. I have a feeling that she didnt want to come in the apartment because she thinks that I would just keep talking and not let her leave.
Becareful of mindreading. W has her own reasons for wanting you to come to her car. You just don't know the why part. It's as simple as that. Although I suspect it might be hard for the WAS to enter the marital home as reminders of you and the M are all over the place.
So I went down to her car and she made small talk for a bit. Didnt seem to be in a bad mood but seemed really tired and stressed out.
This would have been a great opportunity to show concern in a brief way such as "It seems to me that you're tired...have you had a long day at work?"
I let her finish what she wanted to talk about and then I told her this:
"I dont want this to come off as mean or anything, but I cant play these games anymore. It seems that we arent getting anywhere with talking because it just turns into a fight. I dont think we should talk anymore until you are ready to work on the M."
It is not "playing games" when you have a deeply wounded WAW wanting space from you to figure out her stuff. What is so wrong with that? You will need to accept that W may not contact you or want to talk with you as much as YOU want to. She's on a different timetable than you. The sooner you realize this, the better your emotions will be.
No talk until she's ready to work on the M?! The M is long gone. How about reframing this in your mind to use the opportunities to show W the 'new' Ben? You can't expect the WAW to go from 0 to 120 mph in working on the M. It is not how it works at all.
You need to build up on each interaction one by one. How that is done is by doing several things: 1) Light & Breezy 2) No R talk unless W talks 3) Validate effectively when opportunities arise at the moment
To my surprise that opened the flood gates. She wasnt yelling or anything but she told me everything that bothered her. I sat back and listened validating some of it. Admitting that she had every right to feel that way.
Her feelings are as equally valid as yours. They may change next week, next month, next year.
She of course said the usual "why didnt you try and fix this before." I told her that i understood her frustration with it but that it was better late than never. She also told me that she wasnt sure if my changes were going to last. I said "these changes are for me, I want to be a better person for me, if you happen to be there then you will benefit as well."
Ben, you handled this part very well. Nice job!
She also explained that she was just afraid that it would go back to the same thing. I told her that I understood that too, but that I was in this for the long haul. We discussed the 5LL which surprisingly she read already. I told her that it opened my eyes and that it could be so simple for us to have a happy M. She said that she has tried to tell me before so many times and even tried to get me to read the book. I do remember that, I told her that I was just an idiot and didnt understand what was going on or what I was doing. I also said that anyone who gets married should have to read that book first.
How about saying, "Thank you for telling me. I didn't realize how important this was to you and I apologize for not being attentive to your feelings. This is something I'd do differently now.
She ended the night by driving me up to the door and asking if she should call me in a week or so. I said "no you should call me when you are ready to work on the R." She hugged me and that was the night.
I wouldn't put down such a hard line to W on this...unless she's in active affair with OM. Another way would be, "I will not have any discussions with you on the M until you've ended things with the OM, give me access to your phone/emails because it is disrespectful to me and our M.
Overall I felt pretty good about it. Now is the hard part though. I have to make sure that I dont contact her at all until she calls me. I want her to get a real look at what a S or D would be like and see if thats really what she wants. I know its early on for me, but sometimes you have to play for all the marbles.
As Sandi has mentioned several times here in DB, it takes a while for the WAS to start missing the true essence of their spouses and friendship with them that the start thinking about coming home. It is a long journey back home which is why we all stress the importance of keeping the road home paved smooth for them.
So Im already having a rough day. I went to the counselor today and broke down in his office. I cant help but to do that everytime I think about what Ive done to my W. Im finding it very hard to have a positive outlook at all right now. I cant seem to function at work, which is where Im at right now. I just have a very uneasy feeling that this isnt going to turn out how I want it to. The counselor seems to think that I made the right move by telling the W that I didnt think we should talk until she was ready to work on the R. I keep flip flopping on it, whether it was the right move or not. Trying to take advice from people on here telling me to chill out about it. I just cant imagine myself finding someone that I will care about as much as my W and for that matter I am not even close to interested in that. The counselor did say that she might be angry because she knows that we shouldnt be separated right now and doesnt want to feel guilty. He also said that she might be wanting a D even though she hasnt said that she did, but that she is too afraid to face the confrontation. Im trying to be strong here and not give in to contacting her. I still cant help but to remember the time before we got married and I broke up with her for 2 weeks. She bothered me nonstop for the 1st week and I told her to stop that I didnt want that. She stopped and didnt contact me for a week and then finally texted me to have sex. Im hoping that it only takes her a week like it did me of not bothering her to start talking to me, but not very optimistic about it. I appreciate all of you guys helping me through this. I dont think I could make it at all if I wasnt here.
This would have been a great opportunity to show concern in a brief way such as "It seems to me that you're tired...have you had a long day at work?"
I asked her what was wrong? She told me that it was stress from work and everything else.
It is not "playing games" when you have a deeply wounded WAW wanting space from you to figure out her stuff. What is so wrong with that? You will need to accept that W may not contact you or want to talk with you as much as YOU want to. She's on a different timetable than you. The sooner you realize this, the better your emotions will be.
The part about playing games that Im referring to is telling me that she is going to call me and not calling me at all for like 2 days. I understand that she needs time and space, but Im not just here to be used when she wants someone to talk to and no one else is around.
No talk until she's ready to work on the M?! The M is long gone. How about reframing this in your mind to use the opportunities to show W the 'new' Ben? You can't expect the WAW to go from 0 to 120 mph in working on the M. It is not how it works at all.
Ok, so the reason I went to this was because she has already agreed to go to counseling and a date. She seems to be forcing this to me though. The date is called off at this time and I feel like that might have been a mistake by me. She also told me earlier in that same day that she "didnt want to fix things." Not sure how to take that. Maybe it means right now, maybe it means never.
Ben, you handled this part very well. Nice job!
Thanks, I thought I did well on that too. Though I think she will be skeptical about it until I can prove consistently that I have changed.
I wouldn't put down such a hard line to W on this...unless she's in active affair with OM. Another way would be, "I will not have any discussions with you on the M until you've ended things with the OM, give me access to your phone/emails because it is disrespectful to me and our M.
Not really sure where you get the OM thing from. I dont think she is involved with anyone else. Although such a radical change in her behavior has made me question it. I didnt deliver that in a mean way either. It was more of explanatory saying that I know that she will need time and that I wasnt putting a limit on it for her.
As Sandi has mentioned several times here in DB, it takes a while for the WAS to start missing the true essence of their spouses and friendship with them that the start thinking about coming home. It is a long journey back home which is why we all stress the importance of keeping the road home paved smooth for them.
This is the part that I am going to have the most trouble with. The patience thing is not something Im good at. Everytime I think of contacting her I call my brother instead. Thankfully he is almost always available for me to talk to. I feel like he might be getting tired of hearing it though.
Thanks for your comments Wonka. It is always appreciated from an outside view.
When I was so addicted to contacting OM, I found it was incredibly difficult to stop once I knew I had to end things. Even though I was the WAW, this board gave me the strength to get through those times I felt so weak. I knew contacting him was at the tip of my fingers. But I came here and read and posted.......read and posted. I wasn't getting much sleep, either. Surprisingly, nobody told me to go away and stop coming to the board. What I'm saying is that we are your support system, Ben. Use the board for
support. I know of no other people that can identify with your stitch like the folks here.
When your W said "everyone" tells her to get out of the R..........you know how we women are. We always say things like "never, everyone, all the time, and.......always".
It could have been as many as two people who did not argue with her, and she said it was everyone. WAW's listen to who they believe will support what she wants. I know I did. And her parents will stand by her, regardless, b/c she is their D. It's just the way it is. But you cannot judge what will happen on what she says, what she does, or how many supporters she has. Okay?
If it helps, I was very torn and confused. I changed my mind a thousand times a day. Now what may seem odd is that it was not my LBH that talked me into staying in the M. Remember, he could do nothing right, in my eyes. It was, however, total strangers who got my attention and told me the truth of what was happening to me.....and what was needed to get through the mess I was in.
I want you to listen especially to this part, Ben. I was raised in a strict, Christian environment. I had never sown wild oats, as people say. I had been like a model daughter. Not model W maybe, but I'd say a very "proper" W. At least in my VP.
. But I gradually slipped over a line I should have prevented. You see, Christians can sin too. In spite of my waywardness, my conscious still spoke to me. The night I found this board? I had originally looked for a Christian forum b/c I was reaching out for somebody to help me. Just happens that the particular one I found was sorry and I told them off and left 'em.
See how bad I am? But that same night I actually "stumbled" across the DB board. Need I say more?
Of couse I will say more, b/c I wanted to tell you to not put your faith in your W or any other person. Put it in the One who can work all things together for your good. By that, I don't mean you should do nothing, I'm just saying that you cannot say anything to change her mind right now. Nothing! Even if she was pressured enough to return, you can't make her love you.
How long it may take, or what it will take, or if anything changes her decision, IDK. God will not force her against her volition. But He sure has way of getting the help if she ever reaches out. Maybe........and probably not through you, but your part is fixing yourself while these other things work together. As Cadet says, she has given you a gift of time. Use it to become the best man you can be. Really!
Btw, when you are told to chill, it doesn't mean to not take this stitch seriously! It means that you cannot continue to operate out of emotions. You will crash and burn. We can tell you things to help, if you'll listen and apply. But you must operate from your "will" and not feelings. Yes, you are going to feel a lot of bad, but don't act on it.
The majority of newcomers seem to be LBH'S. So read other threads and post every day as many times as you want.
Work with the doctor b/c loss of sleep causes other problems. Depression is common.....and can become serious if not treated. That was only a portion of my problem. I was in so much pain that I was looking for some escape. So, be wise.
The church thing should be what you feel is comfortable. Just don't stop going to some church somewhere. That's not how to handle it. Doing like you did last time was a good start. No pressure, no expectations. Be pleasant if she speaks, but don't over kill. Continue in your growth.
P.S. It was a long time before I was ready to reach out for help.
I appreciate your kind words Sandi.
I just had a breakdown in front of my boss and he pulled me aside to talk to me. Told me that he will help me in any way that he can.
I know that she speaks in absolutes right now, but its still hard to accept. The counselor today was even telling me how hard it will be to overcome her family. I have done it before, they told her not to marry me before we got married. Now Im sure they are telling her "we told you so." I dont even know why they would say that about me to begin with. I guess no one is good enough for their daughter.
If it helps, I was very torn and confused. I changed my mind a thousand times a day. Now what may seem odd is that it was not my LBH that talked me into staying in the M. Remember, he could do nothing right, in my eyes. It was, however, total strangers who got my attention and told me the truth of what was happening to me.....and what was needed to get through the mess I was in.
The problem with this is that she isnt reaching out to anyone except her family. I wish she would do some reading or reach out to the preacher in our church. I dont think I would want her to come here though. Then she might stumble accross my post and realize what Im trying to do and see how desperate I am, that when she sees me its only a show because I dont want to breakdown in front of her.
I pray everynight for God to soften her heart and guide her towards reconciliation. I know he cant make her love me, but he can lead her in the right direction or prod her. I know she loves me now or it wouldnt be a separation, it would be D proceedings already.
I know that I cant affect what she will do or how long it will take. I will still continue my C and medication. I have been hanging out over at my brother's house lately and will hang out with him again tonight to kind of clear my mind of this. It only helps moderately. Im trying to do 180s, I would never go shopping before because I dont like it. When she found out that I went to get new clothes, she told me that it pissed her off. That I would never do that before. I just said that I needed some new clothes.
I also would not want her to return by way of pressure. I want her to come back because she realizes that she wants me in her life as a H. I find it very hard to not operate based on emotions as this is all I feel right now. I have never cried so much about anything in all my life. Funny because she always used to complain that when we broke up before that I never cried for her like I did a previous GF. Ironically I cry way more over her. You guys help me try to keep going and I thank all of you for it. Its not even something that you could put a price on.
I will not turn to drugs or alcohol if thats what you mean by way of escape. I dont like either of them. I dont think that I can attend our church this Sunday as I told her that we shouldnt talk and I think it will look like I have collapsed. I will go to the other church and ler her have her space. This way she wont be forced into talking to me to keep up appearances.
Thanks for all your insight Sandi. It means alot.
The counselor did say that she might be angry because she knows that we shouldnt be separated right now and doesnt want to feel guilty. He also said that she might be wanting a D even though she hasnt said that she did, but that she is too afraid to face the confrontation.
I'm surprised your IC would say these things to you. These don't seem to be helpful comments to what you need to do
Based upon my experience, Ben, you need to guide your IC to discuss you and not try to fix the M. My IC wanted to go there and I would have to lead the conversation back to me.
From your first post, there seem to be several topics you and IC could be working on:
1. Porn
2. Massive mood swings
3. Always been mean to her
Have these been discussed? You write a lot about missing her, dealing with it, etc. What are you doing about the above?
From what you've written Ben, I don't think you are dealing with the "typical" WAS here. I honestly believe she wants things to be better with you. You still have to do the work like everyone else on here, but you have someone who is actively looking for and wanting these changes. Most LBSs on here don't have that. Keep working. You can do this.
Thanks Nettles. Always love to hear what you think too.
I didnt understand that either from the IC. It felt like kicking me when I was down. I think he was just being brutally honest though.
1.Porn- we discussed this today and its weird but I really have not looked at it at all since she left. I have found some helpful things to read to keep me off of it. It seems to be pretty easy right now, but I am not taking it at face value as this is not something that I ever want to backslide on. Right now this is the thing that I am most proud of that I have been working on. A bonus is that Im pretty sure its her biggest concern too. I thought it would be harder than it has been and I am thankful that it hasnt been. I do have a fear though that I may have just been drawn to doing something that I could be caught for.
2.Massive mood swings-I am on Wellbutrin right now and it seems to be helping with this other than the fact that I cannot get any sleep on it.
3. Always been mean to her-This I am going through anger management right now for, but the C says that he thinks it may all be linked to the shame I feel from porn and deceiving her. The Wellbutrin may also affect this as I have been diagnosed with depression which creates anxiety and turns into anger.
I am glad that you see it that way. I also thought that at first that she wasnt the "typical" WAW. I pray that you are right and that I dont have to go through a full blown crisis here. I am glad that this situation happened for one reason-it woke me up to things that I would have never faced before. I told my W this when she said that she wished that this didnt happen. I said that I didnt because of the above reason. I will continue to work on this with everything that I have. Again I cant say this enough, you guys are the best support group I could have. So many different outlooks on things but always great advice.
Well wasn't suggesting she comes to the board. I was trying to encourage you by telling how it helped me. And the way or source I reached for may be different with her.
By escaping my unhappiness, I turned to online chatting. But sometimes people leave the MR b/c they are trying to get out of the unhappiness they feel.
She may get really angry at your changes, at first. It's typical b/c you waited until she left. It takes time for her to work through this stuff.
I hope you will get involved in some type of activity (hobby, friends, gym, etc.) that will get you out of the house.
I didnt understand that either from the IC. It felt like kicking me when I was down. I think he was just being brutally honest though.
Mind reading. Even with his fancy degrees, he doesn't know. I'd like to kick him...
1.Porn- we discussed this today and its weird but I really have not looked at it at all since she left. I have found some helpful things to read to keep me off of it. It seems to be pretty easy right now, but I am not taking it at face value as this is not something that I ever want to backslide on. Right now this is the thing that I am most proud of that I have been working on. A bonus is that Im pretty sure its her biggest concern too. I thought it would be harder than it has been and I am thankful that it hasnt been. I do have a fear though that I may have just been drawn to doing something that I could be caught for.
Great that you are working on it. And you thought it would be harder? See what a good 2x4 will do? A gift from W to you. I hope you and IC will go into the highlighted portions deeper.
2.Massive mood swings-I am on Wellbutrin right now and it seems to be helping with this other than the fact that I cannot get any sleep on it.
3. Always been mean to her-This I am going through anger management right now for, but the C says that he thinks it may all be linked to the shame I feel from porn and deceiving her. The Wellbutrin may also affect this as I have been diagnosed with depression which creates anxiety and turns into anger.
What do you mean "going through anger management"? Obviously a lot going on here, but it looks like you are working on it.
Yeah I do appreciate that from her. It could be one of the best gifts ever. Im not sure about that last part that I put about the porn or not. I hope that isnt the case because then its just a whole new issue. Im going through an anger management workbook with my counselor right now. We are doing one module a week. It seems to help me understand it and be able to start to catch myself when I feel a bad reaction coming on. Im sure it will get better. In other news I have decided to go to a cosmetic dentist and get my teeth fixed. The front 2 have always been an issue for me. They are crooked and keep me from wanting to smile and show my teeth. I think this could be a real confidence booster for me. The W always tried to make me feel better about them and tell me that no one notices them, but I notice them and this is for me.
You're doing good man! Owning up to your issues. The key is to make these changes for YOU. Not in hopes of the changes bringing WAW back. If you are doing them for her, they won't stick.
Keep working hard, don't give up, and be the best you that you can.
I was just saying that I would hope that she wouldnt for my sake lol. Im not even sure she is going to reach out for any help other than her family.
By escaping my unhappiness, I turned to online chatting. But sometimes people leave the MR b/c they are trying to get out of the unhappiness they feel.
This is what I think has happened here. We have turned in to roommates as of late and neither one of us like it.
She may get really angry at your changes, at first. It's typical b/c you waited until she left. It takes time for her to work through this stuff.
Well this one about me shopping was maybe a bit for her...I did want new clothes and I took your advice and got some new cologne, turns out its the same cologne her BIL who died last year wore...She was very close to him. I have also been making an effort to keep the house clean. Not that hard with just me, imagine that. But she still has not come by the house since she left so she wouldnt even see this yet. It does make me feel good to actually be clean instead of stacking up coke cans on the coffee table.
I hope you will get involved in some type of activity (hobby, friends, gym, etc.) that will get you out of the house.
Like I said earlier, I am trying to get my brother to start playing Frisbee Golf with me. He has never played and is not very athletic, but I think he will for me. I dont think its a good idea for me to go to the gym because of the incident where she saw me at the gym with another girl. I think it would rehash some bad memories for her. Instead I have Insanity at the house now just waiting to be used.
Thanks Thorn, Im trying. At first I will admit I was doing this mostly for her. Then after much thought and consideration I decided that I need to make changes that I want to make not for her. Some of the changes I am making are also ones that she wants too though. The porn thing is a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders and IMO the thing that she hates the most. Im also trying to stop being critical of other people. I wont lie, I have been an a$$hole alot and very judgemental. I dont like this, so Im changing it. She has never really mentioned any problems with this, so another one that is just for me. It is very hard to stop myself from judging people because Ive been doing it for so long. Its a work in progress.
Yeah I do appreciate that from her. It could be one of the best gifts ever.
Yes, you are going to be a better, happier you. Do you know how I know? Because I'm not longer the miserable SOB I was. I know where this can go, and it feels great, and I'm no where near done.
Im not sure about that last part that I put about the porn or not. I hope that isnt the case because then its just a whole new issue.
But now you can examine and explore it. You have the time. You can examine it.
Im going through an anger management workbook with my counselor right now. We are doing one module a week. It seems to help me understand it and be able to start to catch myself when I feel a bad reaction coming on. Im sure it will get better.
Awesome. Keep it up.
In other news I have decided to go to a cosmetic dentist and get my teeth fixed. The front 2 have always been an issue for me. They are crooked and keep me from wanting to smile and show my teeth. I think this could be a real confidence booster for me. The W always tried to make me feel better about them and tell me that no one notices them, but I notice them and this is for me.
That's great.
You are doing all the hard work. Keep it up. Think of NC as the opportunity for W to digest all this change.
I do worry that she wont see any of the changes so why would she bother calling me anyway. Im still going to do them and just hope that she will miss me enough to call me and check up on me.
She will. She said as much at the start. She wants it to change. She wants to be happy, she wants you to be happy, and she wants to be happy together. You are working on part 2; the only thing you can work on right now.
Very down today. She called me this morning after not having talked to me in a week. I was very excited when I saw that it was her that was calling me. I answered the phone and was immediately disappointed. She asked me why I was talking to her family. I had talked to her brother last night just trying to see what he thought about things. Apparently he told her dad that we talked after I asked him to keep it between us. So as you can imagine, her dad talked to her about it today. Her brother and I have been friends for years now and he told me to call him anytime I wanted to for whatever. He suggested that I call their dad and talk to him about this situation as she is living with them and already knows whats going on anyway. I told him that I could do that as some point this week. I didnt really think anything about it. And before I get flamed for talking to her family because its in Sandi's rules not to, her brother and his wife are on my side and I thought that it would be confidential.
Apparently her dad had asked her if she had talked to me and she told him no. Well we did talk on Tuesday at my house and I told her brother that. He told their dad that and I guess he accused her of lying. So now she got upset with me about it. I told her that it wasnt meant to try to draw her back in but just to talk. She said that she is sure that it was to draw her back in but it is only pushing her further away. I told her that Im just trying to work this whole thing out nothing more. She said she would rather I have called her dad not her brother. She doesnt get along with her brother and his wife right now because they disagree with what she is doing.
I talked to my brother after our convo and he seems to think that its a positive thing that she even called me. The last time I talked to her, I told her that I didnt want to talk until she was ready to work on the R. It also seemed like when we were on the phone that she was trying to bait me into an argument, which I did not bite. I never raised my voice or said anything insulting, just told her that it was not my intent to do anything other than talk. She told me that she is going to call me back tonight when she gets off of work. My brother said to not answer the phone for her from now on because everytime we are on the phone its an argument and that is her crutch. He thinks she hides behind the phone because she can get angry and not feel bad about it. It does seem to be a better interaction when we see each other. Im not sure how to take today's conversation and what I should do tonight if she calls me like she said she was going to.
Have you finished reading DB or DR yet?
No i havent, I am working on DB right now.
Many of the answers to the questions you ask are in there. Do the work first by reading and you'll understand the "why" behind everyone's advice.
Ok but until I get there what is the opinion of what I said?
First off, never talk to family. Blood is thicker than water, and you see why the book tells you not to tell everyone about your sitch.
Next, understand that there is no "explaining" yourself to her. She's trying to control the situation. Just watch your actions. At this time, regardless of what you do, good or bad, she will scrutinize. Stay true to your actions.
When she does talk to you about her concerns, VALIDATE how she feels, but not necessarily her actions. Try to understand WHY she's doing what she's doing and know that she has a right to feel the way she does. This does not mean that you agree with her ACTIONS. Just agree with the fact that she is entitled to her feelings and emotions.
The books will go through all of that.
Thanks, I will finish reading the books. I generally read them on my lunch break. I just feel like everything Im doing right now is wrong and its getting worse. And now her dad thinks Im going to call him to talk to him because her brother told him that I was. It will make me look very rude if I dont call him. Maybe I should send him a text explaining that I dont think its a good idea to talk because of its effect on the situation.
"Thanks, I will finish reading the books. I generally read them on my lunch break. I just feel like everything Im doing right now is wrong and its getting worse."
Because you're not doing the right things. That's why reading the books should be first priority. Study them like you would a text book. Highlight points.
"And now her dad thinks Im going to call him to talk to him because her brother told him that I was. It will make me look very rude if I dont call him. Maybe I should send him a text explaining that I dont think its a good idea to talk because of its effect on the situation."
Call him. Don't text. Be a man and just tell him that you respect your W and are changing to make yourself a better man. Don't go into details. Tell him that you appreciate his concern and always respected him and his family and that you want your W to be happy. And that's all. Don't elaborate.
Ok I will call him. Should I talk to her tonight or not? I just dont want it to be another negative interaction. It seems to go that way more often than not on the phone.