Hello everyone, I am new to the board. My wife and I are at the brink of divorce and she has checked out. Married for 7 years, no kids. I got the ilybinilwy. Not once but at least three times in our 7 years. We've been together for 21 years. At present we are living in the same house but different floors. I have done all the begging, pleading, crying,and more. I am so in love with her that I just cant see myself without her. My world is falling apart and I just dont know what to do. Just about a month ago, I found out that she was having an affair. It was with one of our mutual friend. I confronted her, with proof and they both admitted it was just an emotional affair. But I am not completely sure. I am so exhausted from all of this. It's been 3 and a half months now and I am trying to do the last resort, but somehow always falling back into my emotions. Can someone please help me.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hello everyone, I am new to the board.
Welcome! Sorry you find yourself here.
Have you started reading Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy?
If not, go to get it today, it can be found at most B&N (or order it on your e-reader).
cq1,
Typically women don't just have emotional affairs. It almost always moves to a physical affair pretty quickly. You need to accept that as pretty much a fact.
You also need to accept the fact that you will be getting divorced. Now, how would you live your life at that point? I'm not talking about dating. That's what the GAL is about.
You've probably tied your identity to her as a couple. And when you are begging, pleading, and crying for her you end up looking kind of pathetic. Sorry to be blunt, but it's true. I've been there. You need to be a strong, confident person.
CQ,
You need to stop the begging and pleading, immediately. It will only push your wife further away. Have you read Sandi's Rules yet? That's the best place to start (after reading DB or DR of course!)
What proof did you have? Are you able to see/hear what it is your wife finds attractive in this OM?
You said you have gotten the "ILYBINILWY" speech 3x total in your marriage. What have been her ongoing marital complaints? Are they valid?
Starsky
Here are Sandi's 37 Rules. Read them and absorb them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
Thanks, Wonk!
Welcome!
How's the fetching Mrs. Starsky? Wanna share a bit of your story for CQ?
We are doing great! Going thru some challenges with moving her 92/93 year old parents in with us, but marriage is awesome, got our 2nd granddaughter on the way and we are STRONG.
---------------------------------------------------
My story, from my personal archives:
My timeline:
She squirmed and b*tched and moaned and screamed bloody murder at first, that I refused to sit down and talk to her. Eventually, over the course of a few weeks, as she saw that I was NOT going to be either bullied nor sweet-talked (and she tried both approaches) into sitting down and having an R talk with her, she eventually stopped trying.
I confronted my wife within 24 hours of having proof she was having an affair.
I exposed her affair within 24 hours to our adult daughters, and within two weeks to her family and her employer.
I re-confronted her on Day 60, and laid out a "No More Deceit" boundary, telling her "either you tell our daughters and your parents the truth about your relationship with (OM), or I will." I had evidence, and I told her she had five minutes to decide. Within two hours, she had told all four of them the truth -- that she wasn't "just friends" with OM, and that Puppy hadn't been lying when I told them she was having an affair.
About a week later (around Day 70), I filed for divorce, after my wife stubbornly refused to end her affair.
On Day 90, she ended her affair, and asked "what will it take?" to reconcile. I laid out my short-list of non-negotiable boundaries, and we reconciled.
There were several fits-and-starts after that, with the divorce initially being put on two 3-month "stays" before finally being withdrawn. We also separated for a couple of weeks about a year ago, and agreed to date other people, but that was short-lived, and after one "date" (drinks with a former co-worker) I agreed to move back in with her to work on our marriage. We did some MCing, still struggle with the SSM thing, but have remained great friends and partners ever since, and celebrated both our 25th wedding anniversary and the birth of our first granddaughter this Spring.
Interestingly, when my wife tearfully asked for reconciliation (and thereafter), she told me that although she HATED me at the time, and was LIVID with me for exposing her affair, she understood why I did it, RESPECTED me for it, and THANKED ME for fighting for our marriage!
Puppy
My Story:
I actually had two main confrontations with my wife. Initially, I had suspicions, based on the way she was acting and some of the things she was googling on the computer (I had a keylogger). Naturally, she denied it -- twice.
Then one night I was out of town, at my dad's 80th birthday party, and she stayed home with the kids. I got an e-mail on my BlackBerry from my keylogger, showing that she was searching "older woman/younger man" and "sexual positions" etc. on the home computer. I felt sick to my stomach, and like an ox was standing on my chest. I couldn't breathe, and I didn't know if I should tell my folks and my siblings, or try to keep it to myself.
I was up all night, distraught, and phoned my wife and confronted her around midnight. "You're up late," I said. "Yeah, I couldn't sleep," she replied. She sounded nervous. "What are you doing?" I asked, and she could tell something was wrong. "Just on the computer," she said. "What's wrong?"
(pause)
"Look, I know all about you and (OM's first name), and it needs to stop. Immediately. This is incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage, and to our family." She tried to deny it at first, but I persisted (without revealing my intel), saying "Please STOP IT. We both know you're lying to me right now, and it's horribly disrespectful. If you're going to lie to me, I'm just going to hang up."
She then SORT of told me the truth, denying that it had become physical (which I later found out was also a lie).
I exposed to our adult daughters that night, via a phone call. My D-then-18 already knew, as she had suspected something and her and her best friend had followed her mother one night a couple of weeks ago, and caught her coming out of a bar with the guy, and saw them get into a car together. The poor thing had been keeping this all to herself, because she didn't want to upset her daddy. She broke down on the phone and cried, and so did I.
I told both her and her sister (D-then-20) that I loved their mother very much, did NOT want a divorce, but I also wasn't going tolerate this kind of disrespect. I WOULD NOT LIVE IN AN OPEN MARRIAGE. They both said they understood, and respected my position. D18 wanted to confront OM that next day, and I talked her down, and told them both just to wait until I got back from my trip and we could discuss it as a family.
I also exposed to my parents and siblings the next morning, as I felt I needed their support. In the ensuing couple of weeks, I gave my wife repeated chances to end the affair -- she refused 5-6x -- and then I finally exposed to her parents, OM's parents (he lived with his parents!) and their employer, on whose premises the affair was partly taking place. Since the kid was also studying to become a cop, and was going thru the Academy, I found out that there was a "public review" process and I wrote a letter to his file, exposing their affair, and opposing his candidacy to become a police officer.
About 50 days in, I filed for divorce, after she repeatedly threatened to divorce ME. I felt I needed to protect myself, and decided to go for full custody of our boys.
Despite all of this, and my tightening the finances to stop paying for anything that was enabling her affair (cellphone, plastic surgery payment, haircoloring, etc.), her affair continued -- heated up -- for 60 days. I then RE-confronted her, with the "NO MORE DECEIT" confrontation (it's all in my old Chocolateeyes threads; Summer of 2007). This re-confrontation took place in her car, in a department store parking lot, when I told her one evening that "we need to talk." I had decided that while I may not be able to stop her from having an affair, I damned sure wasn't going to let her continue to LIE about it to her parents and to our adult daughters, and try to say that I was being "paranoid" and accusing HER, when everything I was claiming was 100% TRUE.
I told her at this meeting "you either tell them, or I will, and I will show them my evidence."
I gave her 5 minutes to decide.
She told them.
It took about another month before she fully ended it and begged me to take her back, but make no mistake -- that night was basically the beginning of the death of her affair. She had one backslide, about 2 weeks into no-contact/transparency, which she self-confessed, and we got thru it. After two 3-month "stays" of the divorce action, I finally withdrew it the following Spring.
We had fits and starts over the next couple of years, nearing divorce twice (even met with the mediator), ending with a mutually-agreed-upon separation this summer, where we would try to date each other, but each would date other people (she had initially INSISTED on this, and I initially said it was a DEALBREAKER. I then changed my mind, based mostly on Gucci's and Robx's stuff on here). Not two weeks into that arrangement, she called me in tears (I was on my one and only "date"), and long story short, I moved back in with her and we agreed to MC and we fully reconciled.
We've had some tough moments, but our marriage is stronger than it's ever been. The MC is fantastic (had been my wife's IC), holds our feet to the fire, and we're finally starting to deal with some of our sex-starved marriage issues and my wife's problems with intimacy. Turns out MWD's books (along with Harley, Glass and some of my other faves) were all over the MC's office! I knew I had found the right place for us. My wife and I are better friends than we have ever been, have ML more in the past 3 months than we had in the past six YEARS, and I'd say we are "Piecing" at this point, to use the DB phrase.
I hope that helps. That's an awfully long answer to a short question, but I thought I'd just put it all out there.
Puppy
I should add as a P.S.
Throughout all of these "tough stances," I maintained a "loving detachment" towards my wayward wife. Oh, we had our moments -- three or four real blow-ups -- but for the most part, we managed to keep things civil. I laid out some boundaries (no family finances used to enable your affair, no TMing or phoning OM from inside our home, no TMing or phoning OM in front of our sons, from ANYWHERE, if you're going to come home after 1am, don't bother coming home, etc.), and I must say, she respected them almost completely.
The "loving" part of "loving detachment" comes easier for you, trust me, when you maintain full intel ("snooping") and you hear and see the things that I heard and saw. But I did try to "shine a light back towards the marriage, even as I never wavered from my Main Boundary ("I will not live in an open marriage") and my sub-boundaries mentioned above. I would do occasional loving Acts of Service for my wife, such as pulling her car in the garage late at nite, or covering her with a blanket when she fell asleep on the couch, kissing her on the forehead, etc.
I believe that this "hybrid" approach -- aggressive confrontation & exposure, firm boundaries, cut off all financial enabling, strong legal stance; coupled with DBing principles such as GAL, "be the better option," 180s, etc. -- is what works best when there is active infidelity involved.
Reasonable people may disagree, but this is what worked for me, and this is also what I have seen work in my time on these boards, as well as my study of literally thousands of affairs.
Puppy
I'd have to add that the old SSM monster has returned after all of the above, but everything else has just gotten better and better.
I hope some of that can help you, CQ. I'd be happy to post links to my sitch, or answer any questions. Dealing with an affair is going to be one of the (if not THE) hardest thing you've ever had to do in your life!
CQ, are you still around??
Hello everyone, thank you all for your advice.
I have read db and read sandis rules over and over.
Starsky, the proof i have are texts that went back and forth. She left her computer on one day, and the text were emailed to herself. At first, I didnt want to show her but she kept denying the facts. Lied to me over and over about the A. As for her marriage complaints, she says that I lost my ambition in life. Is it valid? Well, I am a working man, and I work everyday to provide for us. We have a small cafe and I poured my heart into it to make it successful. It is successful now. Took a couple of years to have it run on it's own. During that time I focused on the business mainly, but always thought that we were happy. We laughed and did things together. Earlier in our relationship she said she wasn't in love with me because I didn't have a job and wasn't moving ahead in life. Now we have two homes and a successful business and she still gave me the ilybnilwy speech. I did everything for her, always made sure we were secure and safe in life. Helped with house chores, cooked for her, open doors for her, you name it I did it. That's just the person I am. I had a home to come home to. Now I just come to a house. It's so unreal to me. Then when I found out about the affair it just crushed me. I thought I could never forgive, but I find myself so in love with her that I can. But she is not remorseful in anyway. I feel like I'm drowning. As for the A, they both confirmed that it has ended. The OM is married, and what [censored] is that my wife and his wife are best friends.
What I am having a hard time with, is my emotions, are taking over and I act too quick and regret the things I say and do. Just this morning she left the house and didnt even tell me. I panicked, called her, and started to question where she was or going. I know I shouldn't of done that, but just couldn't stop it. I just didn't want to get played again. I'm having a hard time forgiving and trusting when she's away. It's killing me. We used to always do things together and go places together. Now, I'm left out. I do feel like a fool to keep trying to hold everything we have together, while she is not. Detach, Cadet says, don't know how. Tried to, but keep going back to the emotional state of mind that makes me want to reason and try to get back what we had. Not to the same marriage, but to a new marriage with happiness. As for the mentioning of D, she hasn't brought it up but does so when I get angry about the A, and how she's not even helping me deal with it. Should she? I thought she should because of the A, it really messed my mind and heart up. I'm severely hurt and scrambling to find a cure. Uuugh this [censored]! All the emotions comes at me throughout the day...be betrayed by both a friend and my W, lied to, feeling used, no help or remorse from W. Guys and gals, I'm so lost and can't find a direction to go.
What have I done so far...
Correction...I've read the divorce remedy by MW. When I was reading it, I skipped the infidelity part thinking that that would never happen to me, but man was I wrong. So you see, I am dealing with a waw and infidelity.
I went to countless web sites, and videos on youtube about saving a marriage.
I bought the "strong marriage now system" by Dr. Dana.
Read many forums.
I tried doing 180's but always screwing them up a day or two later.
Read sandis list over and over.
It seems as though, all the things I read and believe in that will help save my marriage are all bundled up in my mind and Im trying to do all at once and getting no reaction from w.
Starsky, I replied to you all a few days ago but it didn't post right away. I'm still here.
It seems as though, all the things I read and believe in that will help save my marriage are all bundled up in my mind and Im trying to do all at once and getting no reaction from w.
And therein lies your problem, cq.
You sound a lot like me, frankly. I too am a "pleaser" -- a classic "Mr. Nice Guy." Did all the things for my wife, too -- wrote her song lyrics, bought her flowers, helped with the dishes and the kids . . . all of it. Said I loved her (and I did . . .and I DO!), but when I did my self-study stuff during her affair I learned that it was as much CO-DEPENDENCE as it was also LOVE.
Have you read the book "Co-Dependent No More?" Excellent read.
What I'm getting at, as you've got to learn a brand new paradigm here -- a new way of looking at things. Rather than come at situations from a standpoint of "If I do ______, what will my wife think? Will it make her angry? How will her anger make ME feel?" (or, conversely, "Will she be pleased? Will she notice? That would make me FEEL GOOD!") . . . you instead have to come at it as:
What is the thing that God Himself would have me do in this situation, if He were standing right in front of me?(If you're not a man of faith, then maybe "What is the RIGHT THING TO DO in this situation, my wife's opinion of it notwithstanding?")
I sense that are going thru your life trying to please your wife, and as you found, that's a cheeseless tunnel (notice that once you made your business successful, and you had two homes, that she still wasn't happy).
Our spouses are meant to be our FROSTING, not our CAKE. Learn to bake your own cake . . . use this time to figure out who CQ is, and what his core beliefs are. If your wife ends up coming around and becoming your frosting again . . . great. Mine did, and our marriage has never been stronger.
If not, you will have become a far better and stronger man, a role model to your kids, and you'll have a much, MUCH higher chance of happiness and success in your next relationship.
Make sense?
Starsky
Sorry to read about your situation. Maybe it's time to get answers from a professional. You really should speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. Your coach will help you focus on future marriage goals and clarify your thinking. Having a concrete plan of action will definitely help your emotional roller coaster slow down. Call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.
"The OM is married, and what [censored] is that my wife and his wife are best friends."
Does the OM's W know?
It sounds like you were skipping around the DB book rather than reading the whole thing. You have to read it all in order understand the concepts. Do that ASAP.
Thank you Starsky for your well written guidance. After you pointed out that my pleasing is a cheeseless tunnel, I gave it some thought and bingo! You're absolutely right. Thank you for showing me this. And being co dependent is also right on as well. I know, I need to GAL. Just don't k ow how to start. Seems like everyday and everything I do I am constantly thinking of her. Lately, Im having issues in controlling anger. I find myself cursing to myself about W and how she treated me by having an A. And now how she is still treating me with no remorse, no guilt ( she says if she wasn't unhappy in our marriage this wouldn't if happen) like she's turning it around and making me feel it was my fault. Man, I tell you, I had no freakin idea she was that unhappy (Wherever we went we held hands, laughed, joked, hugged, and kiss), no sincerity of any kind, and mostly no intentions on working to build a new and stronger marriage. Can you please give me advice in GAL and not being co dependent? It's hard and I don't know where to start because before all this came about, W and I were co dependent ( did and shared much if the days together as one). How do I stop myself from this cheeseless tunnel of pleasing. I guess just stop and patiently watch. Hmm, this will be my first big 180. Going to start it tomorrow. Thanks again Starsky.
Cadet,
no, the OM wife, does not know. My wife and the OM put me in a situation where I am lying to a friend...OM wife, by not telling her. If I do, I know all (sensor) will break loose. On top of that, breaking friendship between my w and her will be devastating in my DB. My w and OM ( ex friend to me) both betrayed me. Sometimes, I just want to say (sensor) it all and get it all out so I don't have to be holding all this in. Like I said to Starsky, I got no freakin remorse or sinserity after I confronted. I confronted both of them at different times. I had to hold myself back from the things anger would make people do. Like getting in a physical fight with that mf...I mean OM. Can I say that? Anyways, even typing this is making me angry. He took advantage of my W. so mad..po! Need to go smoke a cig now to calm down...so stressed. Btw going on 5 mo of this and this roller coaster ride of emotions and stress is bad. Real bad. I lost 31 lbs in 2 mo. People ask if I'm sick. I say no, just dieting and excercising. So much to deal with, but as mentioned before, will start 180 tomorrow. Question for you and Starsky...do I slow down the pleasing or cold turkey 180 stop the pleasing? Thanks in advance.
cq1,
Glad to see that you're back here in the forum. Yep, you've got to finish the entire DB book from front to the end.
If I do, I know all (sensor) will break loose. On top of that, breaking friendship between my w and her will be devastating in my DB.
Do you want to save your M? Or is their friendship more important than saving your M? Then do the right thing and inform the OM's W of this ongoing affair.
As far as I know, the A has stopped. The OM has apologized and confirmed he was wrong and it will not happen again. It's just confusing as to holding all this inside and W not engaging in building a stronger marriage.
When she goes out, she leaves without telling me anything. I feel that this is disrespectful to me on all levels especially after the fact that I know about the A. Should I feel like this or is this a controlling issue needing to know?
He took advantage of my W
How so? And who took advantage of her the other times? The problem was there before he ever entered the picture. However, now that he's in your M, it compounds the problem. What has been decided about the foursome friendship? What has been decided about the A?
This friendship the four of you have had is over. His W deserves to know why. Your W should be the one to explain to her friend that she was betrayed, but i doubt she will. I think he should tell his W. It won't save the M, but neither will keeping it hid and pretending everything is still the same between the four of you. Your W and the OM has destroyed the friendship, not whether or not you inform the other W.
I may not be able to tell you what will work to save your M, but I think I can tell you what won't work..........and this behavior from you isn't working. I personally believe women grow dissatisfied when their emotional or physical needs are not met by her H. But there is another one........loss of attraction.
It seems just today I have posted about that subject a lot. It amazes me how the H can't tell, but I suppose I can understand to a point.......knowing how women conceal those feelings so much. However, it comes out in other ways, usually her saying she's not in love with him anymore and has felt unhappy for a long time. She might as well say, IDLY so I'm not responsible for my actions (like turning to another man), and in most cases, she already has OM she's watching.
There was something missing in the MR for her that you didn't see. Spending quality time together, sharing your soul with each other, keeping the romance alive, having fun times, etc. are so important to women. But if she started feeling less attracted to you b/c of whatever reason.....then disrespect would soon follow. B/c a woman will put up with a lot of stuff if she's attracted to the guy.
Just as it is important to the man to be admired, it is important to her to
feel the admiration. I believe a woman pushes undesirable feelings down within herself. She will experience sadness, unfulfilled, a lot of resentment, and other negative feelings she knows she shouldn't have if she were happy. It will eventually take over and turn into something very close to disgust......and finally just an emptiness. She can't feel in love with her H!
So you need to start with some basics by becoming a man who can be admirred/respected. Not just as some type of pleaser for her, but for your own self-confidence. You do what you can do to improve yourself, and therefore the chances for attraction, and the rest is up to her.....in that area. You can't force her to feel what she doesn't.
Physical appearance is important, of course, but for women it is lower on the list than for men. Other things about the male is what attracts her. Mostly his manliness and take charge attitude. Any time he starts showing signs that resemble a female, it kind of sets her back. I mean, yes we say we want a sensitive man who will understand how we feel......but at the end of the day, we want the mister and not a sister.
Sandi2, first and for most...a BIG Thank You! The things you said are absolutely right on. Honestly, each and every statement you made I have thought about before I even posted on the forum. With the research I have made gave truly, gave me these insight. Now, you come along and justified a path that I must take for the best chance of saving my marriage and/or myself to be a better person for the future. Do again , many many thanks.
Friendship amongst us four is damaged, you're right. What's been going on is that I am left out of the circle, but hold the evidence to break it all up. Om and my w of course wants to keep the harmony and friendship with OM wife. And I am afraid that exposing it to her will also ruin my chance of DB.
So my plan now is to better myself and gain the desirable attraction back for myself (like Starsky says...make my own cake and hope she will be the frosting if she chooses).
My problem is, I keep slipping back to being the good guy and pleasing her. What happened in our marriage that I see that brought us to this situation is... I focused my strength on our business thinking this was what would please her. I turned a struggling business into a successful one. Thus bringing us to a more secure aspect in life financially. During this process, I know now that the romance part was not ignited to the fullest as it should of always been. But hey, I explained to her that infidelity is something I can never deal with and here I am dealing with it. Time and patience is what I picked up from wise DB ers and am practicing this now. You see, I'm a fix it kind if guy. Tried fixing M and wanting her to engage right away was what I was chasing in the beginning. By doing this I realized it did push her away because she's telling me she cannot breath. Since then, I stepped back and am living a life of limbo with emotions of anger, hurt, love, betrayal, being a doormat, fear, disrespected, confusion, broken trust, and extreme stress of worrying that creeps up and causes me to act out of emotions. Happens a few times a week. a total mess I am. She's important to me and that's why I'm here.
I hate coming home to just a house. Who wouldn't.
My confidence is lost.
Walking on egg shells. Is that what they call it? Because when W is around I act as if I am fine and things are fine. When inside, I'm dying. Try to say and do the right things all the time.
What gets me is, how the OM and my w can hold the guilt and not expose to her (OM wife and w best friend(they're like sisters)). I'm just on the side watching all this. It does make me feel terrible, cause her I am just as low as them holding the truth from someone dear to me.
How so? And who took advantage of her the other times? The problem was there before he ever entered the picture. However, now that he's in your M, it compounds the problem. What has been decided about the foursome friendship? What has been decided about the A?
Let me answer your questions here.
Om is a mutual friend. I looked up to him and so did w. he was the one I first consoles when my wife mentioned D. I Consoled with him many times before I found out about the A. He always said to me I will help get you two back together again the best he can. He took advantage of her because he knew how vulnerable she was in this fragile state of M.
There were no other times.
Friendship amongst he and I are no more. But amongst them three are still intact.
A is over per they say. I believe it but do t trust it. W goes over and hangs out with OM wife and I know for sure that the OM will be there at times. And yes, I feel extremely uncomfortable with it because I don't trust them completely. Drives me to the edge of anger. But I hold it in. W gives me no remorse. Why is this so Sandi? And she does not help in anyway to ease my emotions. I know I know, "not in love with me". Lastly, she's still asking me for time and space and has not brought up the D. But I tell you, her actions make ME think of wanting a D. But I love her...too much.
W gives me no remorse. Why is this so Sandi? And she does not help in anyway to ease my emotions.
That my friend is the $50million dollar question every LBH struggles with every day. Her mind is just not in a place where she feels she was wrong in doing what she did. It will be in time. Maybe next week, next month, or in the next year or so. Eventually she will have a day when she realizes what she did was wrong. Its just not today, so we as LBH have to not dwell on it and worry about the things we can control...ourselves.
Here is why I asked who took advantage of her the other times:
I got the ilybinilwy. Not once but at least three times in our 7 years. We've been together for 21 years.
You said that you had turned to OM this last time she gave you the ILYBINILWY and he said he'd get you two back together. So was he offering counseling or emotional support to her and it turned into an A, or was the A going on before you talked to him? Do you know?
I believe people can be taken advantage of when they are emotionally weak. When a woman feels "done" with her H and the M, she also feels empty & dead on the inside. It is very hard to live day in and day out with that kind of void. Many people find some way to fill the void and often times choose unhealthy ways of escaping the reality within their four walls at home.
The best information I received was learning about the PEAs. Whether it's an emotional or physical A, chemicals are released and floods her brain, making her feel very much the way one feels when they first fall in love. According to research, science has proven this chemical is strongly addictive. Now you may know all about it, but I didn't.
Being so strongly addicted, the affair partners will return to each other by some means of contact (sight, voice, email, text, etc.) and it is like getting a "fix" for their craving. It is the excitement that rushes over them and gives those "feel good--in love" emotions.
Your M can't be fixed as long as she has OM in her head. And she's not going to get him out of her head as long as she goes to hang out at his house. There are facts you have to know.....and this is one of those facts. The A will not be over until she breaks her addiction. In order to break it, she has to have no contact with OM whatsoever. Even going to his house when he's not there can trigger those chemicals b/c the environment is his domain.
While going through the no contact, she will feel the emotional withdrawal, and it's very difficult. But it's not impossible. It will take several weeks of hard withdrawal and then probably months until completely getting through it. And this is with her cooperation!! It's not something you can force her to do if she won't agree. You can't control her. And that is another fact.
You can, however, have boundaries. You set them to protect yourself.......not to punish or control her. Just as you have personal boundaries you do not allow another person to cross and disrespect or harm you......you have to have them in relationships. It is important you think this out. Only you know what you can live with or can't live without. Only you know your deal breakers.
I do not suggest throwing ultimatums at her. They seldom work with a WAW in an A. Whatever you do tell her.......you had better be prepared to back it up! You could yell and bark and threaten, but if there is no consequences for her ......it is blowing in the wind. Powerless! So look up relationship boundaries and think before you speak. Never tell her anything expecting a desired reaction. It will backfire.
You asked why she has no remorse. One reason, I believe, is b/c of her emotional state before the A. I think women tend to blame their H for their unhappiness in the M. She usually holds a lot of resentment and bitterness. That works just like a cancer. It takes a lot to heal from it. Remember, she felt completely done with you......so why (in her mind) should she feel sorry that another man made her feel good. She doesn't want to save your M. That is another fact. You cannot look at her and wonder why she doesn't feel like you do toward the M or the A. She just doesn't. I would bet my life that if she was made to admit.....she would feel more guilty over betraying her friend than you. Cold hard fact. She doesn't feel she owes you. She feels she was entitled to some happiness. LBH's don't understand and get hurt that she doesn't apologize. Well, she simply doesn't feel she should have to do it b/c she had been checked out a long time ago. Her resentment is too strong. There is no mystery to it, guys. You think she is the girl you married, but she isn't. Her feelings are not the same.
Number one priority is to take care of yourself. Go to the doctor if you can't eat or sleep and depressed. Get a lot of exercise. And this is very important.......get a life outside of that house.
Next, set personal goals. Make them about you......not her. Break it down into small steps. What do you need to do to improve yourself.
Get a calendar and work it. Have every week planned with some GAL activities, even though your heart won't be in it at first.
Have some source of emotional outlet. Something to help rid the anger and pain. Whatever you can do physically to work it out.
Have a source of inspiration. Everyone needs soul food. If you know your source, get as much as you can.
Sandi2, Thank you again. The cold hard facts you mentioned are hard to swallow. But I do agree, though it tears me up inside.
Last night, I went to her and asked her I needed some direction because it's been 4 months now since I confronted them. I wanted to know if we can both put positive effort and work towards building our marriage to be happy and strong. She didn't want to answer yes or no. She mainly said, she's afraid of me at this point. A few weeks back, I lost my temper and pulled the curtains down in her room. At that time, the anger in me was immense, and I was on my own trying to control it but it got the best of me. I also said hurtful things. It was wrong, but since, I explained to her that my emotions were and are still unbalanced. I apologized. It's a different part of me that she's never seen.
Today is fathers day. I reminded her, she said happy fathers day and that was it. No plans for dinner or spending the day together. We have a few dogs and regard them as our kids. She also left again without telling me. It hurts Sandi.
cq1,
You wrote:
Friendship amongst us four is damaged, you're right. What's been going on is that I am left out of the circle, but hold the evidence to break it all up. Om and my w of course wants to keep the harmony and friendship with OM wife. And I am afraid that exposing it to her will also ruin my chance of DB.
Nope. It will have the opposite effect. Yes, DBing is counterinituitive. You think by exposing the A to the OM's W that your DBing will be shot. Not the case at all. You are informing OM's W so she is aware of what's truly happening and allow her the opportunity to work on their marriage. It also gives you the same opportunity.
Affairs thrive on secrecy. When you turn up a rock in the ground, you see all the crawlies running around trying to get back into darkness. Trust me...when the exposure happens, your W and OM will be very, very mad and try to put the affair back into the darkness. Trouble with that plan is that it is ALREADY exposed.
A is over per they say. I believe it but do t trust it. W goes over and hangs out with OM wife and I know for sure that the OM will be there at times. And yes, I feel extremely uncomfortable with it because I don't trust them completely.
Trust your own gut instinct for they're almost always right. Whatcha gonna do about exposing the affair? The choice is up to you. I've read that Starsky and Bond exposed their WAW's affair and they are now reconciled with their wives. It can be done and it has been done quite successfully.
Drop the fear. You can do this. It's up to you.
She came back after a couple of hours and was in a really good mood. She came to me and said "today is Father's Day would you like to go out for dinner or stay home and cook a nice meal?" I was a bit stunned. I opted to stay home and cook a nice meal and just to be like a family we used to be. We both cooked and didn't mention anything about R and emotions. It was nice. She prepared the food and we both cooked it together. Then we played with our dogs. Laughed a little. It was a nice evening of respect and peaceful emotions. The night ended and she went back upstairs. I'm not thinking too much into it though because tomorrow may go right back into the hurt and painful feelings of a WAS. For once, I felt good about myself because my guard is up for MYSELF.
Wonka and Sandi, I thank you both for the insights of an A and the ways to handle it. I have been thinking about what you both said all night.
I am slowly detaching. Time does help. I know it is for me, but can't stop the notion of thinking that this can bring her back too. I'm thinking that detaching is also a way that I am giving her space. I'm also feeling that it's the Mother load of a 180. Like instead of being so needy and dependent on her for my own happiness. Showing her that I'm a man for who I am. Standing strong. I started this morning when she came down to say good morning. I kept mostly to myself instead of doing any kind of pleasing. But still answered her questions with short answers. I didn't try to start conversation for once. I will continue, and we'll see how this works.
I am so sorry you are in this pain. I try to pay forward the help I received by giving the view from the other side. It's painful to hear b/c this woman you love and M seems gone, yet you want to try to reason with her as if she is still that same person. She was in her own pain, too. Her pain grew over time. We don't know how long. Now she's made things very complicated and you are experiencing all your pain and agony at once. She turned to OM for comfort, direction, or something else. You have now turned to her for some direction. She can't give you direction. She can't give you what she doesn't have.
In spite of how it must look, I doubt her intent was to see how she could hurt you in the very worst way. When she didn't want to answer your question about working on the M, it is b/c of a few reasons:
* She is waiting to see what OM is going to do
* She is making preparations for her departure at a later date
* She is confused and hesitant to step out on her own
* She is thinking about staying longer, but can't see it getting better
* She intends to be available to OM
* She could give the answer you wanted to hear, so she avoided it
Another cold fact is your W is probably not capable of contributing much working effort on the MR yet. Her interest and energy for the M is dead. She may be the kind who could put on a good front and fake it, but it will take a lot of time before it will be from her heart. I was so depressed and full of so much bitterness that it took a long time to just get to the level of being willing to put forth some effort.
Being a former WAW, it seems to me that it is the belief of the LBH that since he's discovered the A and confronted the guilty......it should take care of things and she should be able to make a snap decision and throw 100% effort in the healing the M. Truth is....If it happens at all, it's a very slim chance she is going to throw herself back into the MR.
You guys need to realize it took time for her to get to the place she's in now. Just b/c you confronted her about the A! It did nothing to snap her feelings from OM back to you. which is another reason you saw no remorse. I read very few stories where there were no expectations from an confrontation. The desired "response" seldom happens the way the LBH is seeking.
Now the OM may try to keep his word to you, but I think they will find a way to stay in contact. He is afflicted too. If he is not worried he'll be exposed to his W, he'll take the risk.
I think you will have to tell them you will not be put in a position of living a lie. That may be all that's necessary to say, IDK.
Starsky would be able to give more precise information alone these lines. Personally, I think this should be kept between the four of you....if possible. But Starsky can help much more than I can with how to word things, etc.
It is not my intentions to put more pressure on you. I'm just trying to inform you. The rest is up to you. But please talk to Starsky before doing any type of exposure. It doesn't hurt to just listen to it.
Words of wisdom and guidance. Thank you.
Starsky may I have your thoughts please.
What's the question?
Just your thoughts on Sandi's reply.
Wow Sandi you've done it again,
Your perspective as a former WAW is invaluable IMHO.
Everything you explained above is just about dead on with my troubles and I venture to guess a lot of others on here.
Thanks again!!
Things look bad but I hold out great hope without the trap of expectation( I think).
Just your thoughts on Sandi's reply.
There's a lot in there; what is your specific question?
I cannot advise you on exposure, as it's against DB principles.
Starsky
Shoot! I should not have even used the "E" word at the end of my post. Sorry, I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I was really thinking how you would make an excellent mentor. I know how talented you are with wording impressive responses........and in this case, maybe have a little guy talk regarding the lies/deception toward OM's W.
I lost it last night. I went to see her in her room and ended up asking for trust between us. I told her she can trust me. Then i asked her if i can have het trust. She simply said it doesn't needed to be ask. I told her the pain I felt from everything that has happened is over powering at times. Simply I think I was pursuing and pushing again in an indirect way and it backed fired. She reiterated the ilybnilwy. I got so upset that I told her that if she wanted a divorce then Do it. I work hard everyday and i felt like i was just being used by her.
Then this morning I realized I was expecting more fr her because I choose to work hard and I regret what I said.
As for the friendship and th A. She says she's ready for me to expose it to everyone. But I know she doesn't mean it.
As of now , still living in limbo.
Take a step back cq1. Breathe.... I made a huge mistake like yours last week but have dusted myself down and am going to start again.
Think before speaking. I didn't, although the wine didn't help.
Become her friend. Hold back on anger and bad thoughts. You will see a change in her once you do that but it will take time.
cq,
You are looking to your wayward wife for both COMFORT and HONESTY
I can assure you, she is not of the mindset to give you EITHER right now.
You tried to draw a hard line with her, but only AFTER she rejected your supplication. Very unattractive to her, I am sure. You're all over the map.
Starsky
Cq1, it might take a while before you can be calm enough to be friendly. when I was first starting DB I lost my composure way more often than not. I always took responsibility for those times, usually apologizing by text to keep myself from losing it again, and then staying away as much as possible till I felt like I had more self-control. This is harder when you're still living together. Try, if you can. It does make a difference.
Best to you!
Cq1, it might take a while before you can be calm enough to be friendly. when I was first starting DB I lost my composure way more often than not. I always took responsibility for those times, usually apologizing by text to keep myself from losing it again, and then staying away as much as possible till I felt like I had more self-control. This is harder when you're still living together. Try, if you can. It does make a difference.
Best to you!
What I wouldnt give to have mine still living with me. I feel like it is a much better chance to work out with the spouse living in the same home still.
Oh, me too. But I couldn't have achieved detachment otherwise. Silver linings...
I can agree with that part of it, but I never see mine for at all for any reason now. It [censored]
Thank you all. I need to gal for myself and only myself. I know this should be the course for me now. 22 years of being together and now I have to start doing things on my own. It's lonely and tough. However, you guys and gals support does help. Thank you.
I'm having a hard time dealing with how she can just be gone for the entire day without telling me anything. It used to never be like this.
Just let it go man. Dont question it or show any emotion about it at all. This could even be a 180 for you if you are used to questioning her about her whereabouts.
Think of your WAW as having been abducted by aliens. She's been brainwashed by them. Unfortunately, the effects of being brainwashed take time to resolve. There's no antidote except time.
In the meantime, she's going to act really strange and not seem like her old self.
Thanks Ben. But don't you think it would just be considerate if she let's me know a little? Hate feeling like a doormat. 180 to me is like Mr. Nice Guy turning into Mr. Mean Guy or Mr. DGAS Guy. So not me. But I do agree the technique is valid.
Got a question for you all. WAS comes down to my living quarters and we cook together sometimes when she's home. Is this a good thing or a not so good thing if I am trying to detach. I almost want to tell her to stop because it hurts when she leaves back to her part of the house(upstairs).
cq1,
What would an attractive person do? I always ask myself what would James Bond do. If his wife goes out do you think he's going to sit at home worrying about it and asking her a ton of questions? Or does he go out himself and have a good time, not even thinking about what she does?
And if she comes to cook with him and then leaves don't you imagine he's just going to continue about his business and not act hurt?
Yes this is probably a 180 for you. Yes it can be hard at times to not know what she's doing. But I'm pretty sure she knows you care. It's not about being mean, but it's about being a strong attractive person.
Rec thanks for the encouragement. I do see your point. It helps. Hope you are doing well with your situation. Wow, I can't imagine what you went through. Many thanks for being on this forum.
cq1,
What would an attractive person do? I always ask myself what would James Bond do. If his wife goes out do you think he's going to sit at home worrying about it and asking her a ton of questions? Or does he go out himself and have a good time, not even thinking about what she does?
And if she comes to cook with him and then leaves don't you imagine he's just going to continue about his business and not act hurt?
Yes this is probably a 180 for you. Yes it can be hard at times to not know what she's doing. But I'm pretty sure she knows you care. It's not about being mean, but it's about being a strong attractive person.
BINGO.
But don't you think it would just be considerate if she let's me know a little?
Why should she???? I don t run next door to tell my neighbor when I'm leaving, where I'm going or what time I'll be back. You are just a neighbor living on another floor of the building.
This makes twice since posting your thread you have gone to her seeking what she is not ready to give you. This time you asked her to trust
you? Why, have you been unfaithful, abusive, or something we don't know about? I think you tried another gimmick that many LBH'S have tried and saw it fail. Bargining with the WAW who is in A.
I think you really wanted her to tell you she could be trusted, but she didn't. She doesn't care if you trust her or not! You're a neighbor to her. And right now you are the enemy in her eyes. Can you understand that? She may hate your guts, IDK, but she feels no commitment to pledge anything to you at this time. You
can't trust her when she is doing
nothing to prove otherwise.
Why do you continue to expect her to respond as though she had the same feeling that you do? You keep pressuring her for an expected response. You don't get the one you wanted.....and then you are even more upset. I'm trying to tell you it doesn't work? It won't work next month, either.
She sees zero attractiveness in you, okay? It's normal (for a WAW) to feel what she's feeling. She is wayward! It would not be normal for a loving, faithful, woman who is sexually attracted to her H and wanting to work on her M. She doesn't. A lot will depend upon what she chooses from her own free will. Unfortunately, her emotions will probably lead over her will. But you CANNOT force her to feel what she doesn't feel.
As far as I can tell by what you posted, she has not said anything to leave you with the impression she even considers ending the A or being in a M with you. And by the sound of it, I have to wonder if you weren't issuing some threats about OM's W.
The OM gave his word (whatever that's worth to ya) that the A would stop. Did she agree......or say nothing? They don't even know what is in store for them. Just wait till the craving hits. Those times your W came home in a really great mood? Have you figured it out yet?
.
180 to me is like Mr. Nice Guy turning into Mr. Mean Guy or Mr. DGAS Guy. So not me. But I do agree the technique is valid.
Then you don't understand about the 180's. You want to stop feeling like a doormat? Then stop getting your tail in a kink when she decides to live like a person who is S from her H. Your pressuring techniques were rejected. What other techniques will you try, if not 180's?
You agree the 180 technique is valid, but say it's not for you. Okay, can you tell me how it makes you a mean guy? I would like to know, in case other newcomers have the same thoughts.
"This makes twice since posting your thread you have gone to her seeking what she is not ready to give you. This time you asked her to trust you? Why, have you been unfaithful, abusive, or something we don't know about? "
No, I have never been unfaithful. Simply wanted her to know that we can start building from trust.
About the A, both says it was just emotional and it is over.
I've always pampered her. Suggesting she stays home when I am working at our shop. Even when she wanted to go I would tell her to relax at home. Taking care of the home chores like dishes and laundry. I felt if I stopped all this it would rub off as becoming mean to her.
"What other techniques should you use?" I'm not sure at this point. I think I need to practice the STFU technique, if that's one. I guess in a way, go silent go dark. Trying to accept now that patience perhaps is the key. And I know I must GAL and detach detach detach.
No, I have never been unfaithful. Simply wanted her to know that we can start building from trust
.
The point I'm trying to make is not to make yourself sound like there's some reason she's not been able to trust you. This isn't about her trust in you, and you know it. And she can't
give you trust, she has to earn it. True, you can't watch over her 24/7, but if she gives any indication of wanting to work on the M.........it will be her place to prove you can trust her. But she is nowhere ready to even discuss what it would take to reconcile. At this time, she's not interested.
Maybe you should read again MWD's section in her DR book about 180's. What may be a complete opposite action for another person wouldn't be for you. And vice-versa.
If you are still practicing your old habits of carrying her highness on a feather pillow and cleaning her house, cooking, etc. b/c you want to spoil her........I suggest you evaluate how that worked out for you. Three different times in seven years she has told you she was unhappy. Maybe she was bored, IDK. But if you did everything, what did she do with her time? You are nuts if you continue on with it. I promise you, she does not respect you as a man for serving her as a houseboy.
I guess in a way, go silent go dark. Trying to accept now that patience perhaps is the key. And I know I must GAL and detach detach detach.
180's make you Mr. Mean Guy, but going dark is okay?
Going kind of dark for a day or two doesn't usually work well if you can't stop yourself with the other stuff. But yes, if you think you can do it, go for it.
Sandi, again thank you. Great points you made. We spent the day together today at home. I was surprised, she didn't just take off. Lil confused, but holding up my guard and like you said, "she has to earn it" (my trust). Point well taken. Made me feel stronger. Thank you.
Good, b/c she should see you being stronger and you need to feel that you are. FWIW, it is not the easy times that make us strong, but rather the bad ones.
The same can be said about building faith in God. As a child, it didn't require much faith for me to believe in God. But it was when I grew up and faced some scary times that I learned really how to apply my faith in Him. And with each experience, my faith increased! If I had never had a problem in life........there would be no need to have faith.
Life is going to hand us bad times along our journey. We can face it as a strong person who has dignity, integrity, honor, values, standards, boundaries, etc. Or, we can try to hide in fear, shame, regret, self-loathing, ....and the list goes on. Sometimes we have no choice in the hand we are dealt, but we do choose how to respond to it. As a woman who was raised in a traditional family, I was blessed with the strong male leadership of my father. I actually did not fully realize the extent of his influence until he passed away. It's been over 28 yrs ago, and his influence in my life is still effective . It never ends.
Of course, my mother was a strong role model for me, too. But since you are the man here, I wanted to encourage you to not give up being a good leader for your family.....especially your children. Stand up for what is right and don't compromise with what you know is wrong. Your W will respect you for it, and your children will learn from it.
Wait a minute....full stop - WHOA.
I have a question.
Part of the job of the DBing spouse is to be as attractive as possible, right? Brush your hair and teeth, make an effort to smile and be pleasant. Don't be over the top effusive, but put your best foot forward at all times, right?
Okay. I got that. Gussy myself up a little bit.
Don't wear the sweats and put my hair in a ponytail all the time. Check.
As for the 180s....If you HAD been doing all of the housework (okay - let's just say that you shelled fresh pistachios for your spouse every morning for breakfast and made their tea) - do you just STOP doing that? That would shake things up. It would definitely be different. But if they asked, "Why?" - What's the answer?
OR - does it just make sense to GAL and get out of bed and out of the house to an exercise class early in the morning and simply NOT prepare any breakfast?
My spouse has declared that I was the perfect wife. He loved his life before. He has even told me (recently!) that he was HAPPIER a year ago (before he actively sought out a "friend"). So I agree - clearly something wasn't working. How perfect could life have been?
I'm going to re-read the sections on 180s, but I feel the same as CQ. If I 180 everything I go from being kind wife to pretty mean wife.
Tricky for me, too, because the one complaint that he's told me of is that I wasn't attached enough to him...I gave him TOO MUCH space. I didn't watch tv with him on the couch at night, or play games with him, rather electing to do my own thing. So...that IS something that I've 180ed on (now I sit with him at night, rather than doing the dishes or reading a book...).
Following this!
What is the question and who are you directing it to?
What is the question and who are you directing it to?
Haha...You didn't get the question in that total ramble? Sorry. The question was just directed to the general knowledge base here. I would LOVE your feedback, Sandi2! (You tell it like it is, which is good for me...)
Question: Does it matter WHEN you start to 180? And is one supposed to 180 everything? I was under the impression that one should try a few 180s...Stick with those that work, and drop those that don't.
My H says that "I'm practically perfect in every way." I've identified some things that he didn't like (I didn't spend time with him in the evenings) and 180ed those issues.
If I 180 something (like no longer making his breakfast) I can see that he might gain appreciation for the fact that he was spoiled...But what if he asks Why? What's the answer? Yes, it would make him see me in a new light....But clearly that can't be my response.
We never really seemed to have spats until OW entered the picture. Our relationship seemed very symbiotic. And while all of our arguments about OW were the same (and fruitless - shocker), my 180 on that is to simply drop the rope and STFU. Get a life. I have NO influence over that arena....
And now, reading other threads and reviewing books I realize - the 180 is just one of the techniques. It's good to change the "sameness" of fighting and to alter perspective.
But I'm thinking the most important thing for me to do is GAL.
Don't worry about what he's doing with OW.
Do worry about myself...what would make me happier? More interesting (to myself!)? What could I do for myself and/or my community that would help me to stop perseverating on the things that I can't control?
While 180s may be good (changing behaviors that didn't work/make me unattractive), GAL is really much better.
First step in GAL for me...It's time for me to put the books away and step away from the computer! H will be home the day after tomorrow, so I really won't want to be perseverating on the issue anymore...I don't like him seeing me reading the books or checking these websites, so it's good that he'll be home. I'll be much better about monitoring the time I spend on this issue! Time for a new hobby or two or three!
Still figuring out boundaries, which is a trickier problem since I really am DONE talking about OW.
It's been a week and a half now and I've been trying some 180's. I keep a positive attitude when I am around W. The 180 I am doing is not being a caretaker anymore. It's hard but doing it. A few days ago W and I were together in the room. She was peeling stickers off of a wall board. After she was done I reached out to the table to gather up the pieces to throw away. I caught myself cleaning up after her. I stopped and left all the pieces on the table. You know, I kinda felt good afterwards.
Another one I am doing is NOT making any initiative to start conversations or talk about R and M. I would only say hi when we are together. If she starts a conversation, I keep my answers upbeat and short. Very short. For example, she bought some blue berries and said they were really good. I tasted one, and said "yes they are". Didn't ask where she bought them and if we should get more.
Today we were both off from work the entire day, she came down to my living quarters and said that she was going to go out with a friend for tea. I said good. She left and I thought she would be back no later than a couple hours. She didnt call or come home for over 6 hours. I didnt call her or anything. I made my own plans to go out to dinner with a friend. I went to get a hair cut and came back home. And guess what...? She was home and down at my living quarters making dinner. I came in, and said, "hey, I didn't know you were going to be back so I have plans to go out to dinner." She replied, "ok, good." I left it like that. I showered and got ready while she was still cooking. I was whistling as I was getting ready. By the time I got dressed and ready to leave, she was eating alone. We both were silent for most of the time. When, I was leaving, I told her, "I'm leaving now, see you later." She said "ok". I left out the door without even looking at her. Vets, please let me know if I am doing this the right way or not? Was I too cold? I felt good that I am taking a stance for myself. I also felt good, because I was doing what she was doing to me (not letting her know who I was going out with, or where, and for how long). And No, I didn't call her at all when I was out. She didn't call me as well, that kinda hurt. But hey, this is how it is now and I am starting to slowly accept it.
In regards, to the exposure of the A, I haven't talked about it much. Though they say it is over, I of course, have my doubts. I am giving her the space and time to see where or which direction she wants to go. Either D or reconciliation. In the beginning of this sitch, I have always thought that this(time and space)would only pushes us further apart. I tried to reason and talk genuinely about how we can build a new marriage together. That didn't work because, I see now that it suffocated her. But we will see with all this new technique I am trying. In addition, something in me is always on the lookout for a concrete piece of evidence that the A is still going on. If I do find anything, that will be the last straw for me and everything will end, by my choice.
July 4th weekend, she hasn't made any plans for us and I haven't either. For sure, I know she is going to do something with her friends and I will not be included. It's fine, cause that's what I am expecting.
I hope you all have a wonderful Independence day!
In response to:
Poster: Thornton
Subject: Re: what do I do...
"Think of your WAW as having been abducted by aliens. She's been brainwashed by them. Unfortunately, the effects of being brainwashed take time to resolve. There's no antidote except time.
In the meantime, she's going to act really strange and not seem like her old self."
Thornton, You make a good point. Thanks
Thank you Sandi2. Your words are motivating.
Help, anyone, vets. I have been working on my180s and detaching and feeling better about me. W and I have been getting along peacefully. Then, Just the other day, I caught W and Om meeting up secretly for lunch. They tried to hide their whereabouts. I felt really uncomfortable with this. I spoke to her and she said they were meeting up just to talk about a realestate transaction that the Om needed help with. If i didnt ask then she would if just hid the encounter from me. Should I tell her that I don't like her making contact with him like this? Giving her my boundeies. would this be considered an ultimatum that may push her away? Don't know what to do. Please, I need some suggestions.
What I want to do is draw the boundaries. But afraid it may back fire on our progress. I know she will look at it as controlling. How do I set boundaries without seeming to control?
cq,
There used to be a poster here named Jayne, who summed up boundaries just about as simply and clearly as any way I've ever seen it explained:
Jayne, on “boundaries”:
Think about boundaries like this:
Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.
Your WxH can do whatever he wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling him what to do.
But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.
He's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because he'll be outside your circle. He's free to go on and draw his own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.
He can do WHATEVER he wants. He's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices he wants.
BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.
That's all. Not about trying to control him at all. Tell him he's totally free. He has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever he wants.
If he's saying you have to let him into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HIM controlling YOU.
Your position with your wife is "Look, you're an adult -- you can do whatever you want to do, and I can't control you nor do I even care to. All I can tell you is what *I* need in a marriage, and one where my wife continues to have contact with her affair partner doesn't work for me. It sounds like we both have some decisions to make."
Starsky
Thanks Starsky. I must time it now.
. Should I tell her that I don't like her making contact with him like this? Giving
I have a feeling she already knows you don't like it, and that's why they were meeting secretly. So much for your friend giving his word! Of course, your W never gave hers.
What I want to do is draw the boundaries. But afraid it may back fire on our progress. I know she will look at it as controlling. How do I set boundaries without seeming to control?
First, what progress are you talking about? And why are you worried about boundaries being a backfire more than them meeting together after you told them to end things?
Boundaries are not to control the other person. It is to protect yourself. If anyone is being controlled here, it's you. You have allowed their behavior to control you!
They are not going to stop this A just b/c you found out about it, or b/c he promised to end it. They think they have it made....b/c you are helping them keep it from OM's wife. So they will continue to carry it forward. Seems to me your W and your best friend should be shaking in their shoes, wondering what you will do.
BINGO, Sandi. BINGO.
Starsky
Hi cq1! I thought I'd check in on you on your thread. How are you doing?
I didn't really know your full story before, I just read through it. What a nightmare, and we do seem to have a few things in common indeed. I too was always "caring for" my S too much. Even after he starting acting like a distant jerk, I still felt bad not doing his laundry, cooking for him, and picking up after him. It felt good to stop and say "no I won't do that!"
I hope things are going well for you. Just wanted to say hi.
Hugs, Lisa
Hey Lisa, thanks for stopping by. I over heard W on the phone the other day with OM. I heard bits and pieces. She said she will wait for OM. Im crushed. The OM W found out about the A. It was not by me. I think she found evidence on his phone. I confronted her about her feelings and the on going A. She denied everything. She's playing me until our finance is a bit more stable. This is my gut feeling. Sandi2 is right, I can't trust her until she puts effort to earn my trust. She hasn't. I'm sad, really sad. I don't even want to face her anymore. I know the things I say to her she goes back and tells him everything. Well, I'm going to hang in there.
cq1,
If you want a primer on how to set proper boundaries, I'd suggest that you visit Dev's thread in Infidelity.
Update... I have decided to use Starsky approach with my Sit. I laid it out to my W that the affair will be exposed. I will file the d. She lost my respect and trust. No more Mr. Pleaser guy for her. Going to get my own life together and stronger with my kids. I learned about boundaries. I drew the circle (boundry) around me. She's not included and I am accepting it. The lies and deceit she has been giving me everyday is unbearable painful. Even today when I was laying it all out, she says that she has not spoken to him. A plain straight out lie in front of my face because I heard them and phone records show she talked to him for over an hour yesterday. It's just too much to bear and that's why I have decided to choose this path now. She shed tears as i was calmly telling her. It didnt phase me because i cared but i do t care anymore. I feel now that it has come down to The last resort of The last resort. It's up to her to choose her path. I'm done.
Heh cq. My thoughts are with u. Stay strong during your dark moments and I'm sure it'll get better.
I think it was the right thing to do buddy. Im sure that part of you wants it to shock her and kick her in the ass here. It might be the only thing that works in your sitch. If it doesnt, then nothing would have anyway. You have enough self respect to not put up with it and I think thats great. I personally hope that this is a wakeup call for her. Best of luck to you!
How painful about the lies on top of more lies, cq. I'm sorry.
For the record, I never advocated exposure. And if I did, I would NEVER advocate warning her ahead of time -- I would just DO it.
Not sure where you misinterpreted me.
Starsky
Hi cq1,
I am proud of you. I know this was difficult but it sounds like she is really disrespecting you. And you have no reason to put up with that. So I think you did the right thing. I'm no expert on DBing but she is really being horrible and I don't think you should have to live with that daily.
I think you need to continue to be strong. She needs freedom to figure out her crap and you need the space to heal and get yourself together.
I am wishing you the best of luck. This is super hard but you will come out on the other side even better, I know it! This woman does not deserve you! (at least not right now)
Big hug,
Lisa
Hello everyone, thank you all for your support. It really helps. I mean it.
Starsky, I simply got the inspiration from your post on how you handle your sitch. Unfortunately, Mine have come down to this and I just needed to do what I feel is right. You have never advocated exposure. It was my choice. I sincerely appreciate your support in this difficult time of my life.
We have not spoken since. We crossed paths twice but I looked the other way. She texted me about our shop (work related) but it was not important so I avoided that. She will feel in a short time that I have checked out. I will update as time goes by.
Thanks again everyone. Best to you all.
We talked because she wanted to. She wanted the divorce. I said fine. I knew all along. Lets do it. Then a few hours past and she says she wants time for us still. I told her I know the ongoing A is still active. She denied that and lied to me again. On top of that she said she had promised the W of the OM that she will not talk or see OM. A fat out lie because they've been talking and secretly meeting up. Well, I am detaching at full force. The more lies she's throwing at me the easier it is. Simply, she's justifying my lost of trust to her and justifying why I shouldn't want to be with her.
In addition, she wants us both to be apart as much as we can so she can have more space in figuring out what she wants. I tell myself don't expect any hope or anything from this. However, the strong love I have for her keeps surfacing emotions of hope. What a mess. Anyone with suggestion, on how to handle this is much appreciated. Stay my courses, I am. Deep down, I don't want a divorce but really see now that I'm headed that way and accepting it the best I can. It's sad and scary at the same time. Just got to keep strengthening myself for the big D Day.
Yeah, it still hearts me to know that I must stay on my path. Especially in the mornings when I wake up and all my defenses are down. So once again, in retro spect the lies she's throwing at me is a good thing because its helping me detach.
It hurts and helps at the same time. Isn't that weird how this works out?!?
Hi cq1, I am really proud of how strong you are being. I don't know why your W is acting like this but it sounds so crazy and disrespectful to you.
If she says she wants space, I say give her all the space you can. Toss her out of the house and let her figure it out. If you have proof she is lying to you then I would just say that, and tell her you cannot put up with it.
Sounds like the stronger you are and the more you keep your boundaries with her the more hope you have to possibly work this out. But it's going to take time and patience.
In the meantime take care of yourself. If you can maybe take a break and get away, do something nice for yourself, spend time with friends and family who can distract you and show you some fun!
Good luck and keep us posted!
Hugs,
Lisa
Update...since my stance in being done with fighting for our M, W has came to me tonight and wanted to work on our M. I reluctantly accepted. Because deep down I still love her. Now with this new change in my Sitch, I'm still skeptical about if it's sincerely true. I held back and didn't pursue or chase after the conversation. Three hours before she came to me we got into a heated discussion on our R. I stood my ground and spoke in a calm manner that I agreed that our R was done. I was just after the truth. She didn't admit that she still talks to the OM. She continued to lie and I knew that we were over. I stuck it to her that I didn't care about our M anymore. I simply wanted to leave this R with honesty and truth. She held her ground and didn't admit to her lies. She knew that I was serious because when she wanted to leave I did not pursue her at all.
I need suggestions from DBers on how I should handle this. Vets or anyone please help me shed light on this new twist of fate. How should I handle it??
We're still not sleeping on the same bed or in the same room. Im fine with that because I dont want to push things. Rather take it slow and watch her actions in determining if this is just a fluke.
So again, how should I be??? Should I jump right in and be the loving and caring H? I know my answer ...No. So then how should I be around her? In a way I want to be the best husband so she can see the changes that I've accomplished. My 180s are still in the works and I know that they are for me. im theilled that my LRT worked and she finally took a step towards me. She even reached out and held my hand as she spoke. I just dont want to get hurt all over again. so until then my guard will be up until she wins my trust back.
As for tomorrow morning, I want to reiterate to her that in order for us to make the best of this, I will not be comfortable if she still talks to the OM. I don't want to be controlling. But I will show her in words that out of respect anyone in my Sitch would want this and not even have to ask. I just feel that i should saynit to here, so she knows and hopefull realizes that my reasoning is profound. And I need to get this out because of what Ive seen and how hurtful this A was.
I've been also thinking, that Im still being played by them two. I just need to be careful and watch for signs.
Anyone, please chime in with your thoughts.
Thanks in advance.
So one minute she is literally saying she wants a D, and in the next minute she changed her story. Did you not question it? Do you have any type of agreement or plan in place, or was it more like she offered and you jumped on it without discussing conditions?
Why start out on lies? Nothing has changed. My bet is whenever she told OM she informed you she wanted a D, he told her it would be a while yet before he could leave his W and kids. So she had to make a u-turn in order to put you off filing.
In addition, she wants us both to be apart as much as we can so she can have more space in figuring out what she wants
Exactly! Nothing has changed! She's still saying she doesn't know what she wants. Which is code for "I'm waiting to see what OM is going to do,". OM is her plan "A". You are the backup. If you EVER lay out your boundaries, it needs to be now. But I don't see a woman who wants to be in a MR here. I see someone bidding her time for security reasons. Just the other day, she and OM was still sneaking around. As long as she can simply deny it, then it keeps working for her. Have you made any requirements, or were you just planing to continue be the "pleaser"?
Hi cq1, congrats in getting your W to come to you!
I agree that now is not the time to start being loving and sweet to her however. Sounds like she is still lying and that you both have a lot to work on.
What about MC or something like that? Or IC?
I also do think you need to be firm about what is going on with the OM. Does his wife now know? I forget. I guess if she really wants to work on your M she will agree to be transparent about what is going on with OM. I'm not sure exactly what that entails but the vets can tell you the details. If she is still sneaking around and lying then yeah, forget about it.
Is there a financial or other kind of reason that she would want to stay with you? Like Sandi2 said, maybe then she is just playing you to get more time.
I am sending you strength and luck! Keep on doing your 180s and GAL. Watch to see what she does!
Hugs, Lisa
cq1,
Just my opinion, but it looks like you are definitely being played here. The sooner you file the D, the better. Don't make an ultimatum that you don't follow up on. It makes you look weak. You need to show her that you are nobody's backup.
Get your ducks in a row. File the D. Go NC with your W. Sandi is right. She's just biding her time until OM is ready.
Why are you asking us now, after you already agreed?
You should have said "Hmmm; I'm not sure how I feel about that anymore," or "I'm afraid it's not that simple anymore -- I'll have to think about that." And then come here for advice.
If you already let her back in, without laying out your boundaries and conditions, it's going to be very difficult to lay them out now.
Starsky
Thank you Sandi, Lisa, Starsky, and rec. I know I jumped back in too fast. But I'm in now and I will be aware. So as planned, I had a R talk with her today about her communicating with OM. She did get angry that I brought it up, but she needed to know my boundaries and I laid it out. She still did not admit to talking or seeing OM. She saud to me that this conversation has pushed her back from lasr night when she made a step towards us. I told her, i thought about that before this conversation and i knew that she may feel like this BUT it's that important to me that pushing her away is worth the risk. In addition, I told her what I needed to say is something that I will not put up with and it's just plain and simple respect. If she does continue to have interactions with OM and If she is playing me, I will find out by phone records and shove it in her face(not literally) and I will be done for good. I do feel good I laid my boundaries down. It's up to her now on how she respects it. Respect me. Her actions have definitely been more friendly. She's texting me more as well as calling. It feels good, but I do know that it could be fake. I decided to handle it in a neutral way for now, just to see how far and how much this new change in her will go. In the meantime, I continue to strengthen myself for whatever happens. Sometimes I feel great that its a change on how things were and sometimes I feel angry that it could not be real.
Sandi, I love how you are right to the point. As for me being a pleaser, no not anymore. I've grown from that and realize fr what you told me before about this. Just going to be calm and neutral in my ways now. Continue to get a life and build strength in myself.
As for hope in my M, I don't think about it much as before. I realize it's because of all the pain from the A and lies. In a way, this helped me find my self confidence.
Once again, thank you all.
"As for hope in my M, I don't think about it much as before. I realize it's because of all the pain from the A and lies. In a way, this helped me find my self confidence. "
That's not the way to gain "self" confidence. That comes from within and shouldn't rely on your W's actions. The way you are viewing it will only build resentment in you.
You did well with establishing your boundary, although I would have shown her some proof to her that you had to show that you knew she was lying instead of just talking about it. Sometimes the WAS needs to actually SEE the physical proof in front of them to show them that the LBS isn't playing around.
Thanks Mr.Bond. Can't show her proof or I will lose my intel. It's actually simple, phone records, from phone carrier. I said it before on my posts. I know I shouldn't snoop, but it helped me find the truth for myself. Thanks again for your advice.
What she is doing is giving you "trickle truths". The WAS will often do that because they can't give the whole truth all at once because it's too hurtful or sometimes feel that they don't want to do more harm to the LBS. Twisted, I know, but that's the way it is.
The trickle truths will continue until the WAS feels the need to tell the LBS. Sometimes you need to start with a baby step to get things feeling safe for the WAS so that they will eventually tell you the truth.
So you confronted your W about communicating with OM and she lied about it again? I know you haven't told her how you know, but don't you think she's catching on that it's the phone records?
Back in my pre-DB days I found phone records and confronted my W with them. This was the first discovery of them and I didn't set out good boundaries in place (basically I messed it up). After that my W went to a burner phone to communicate with OM. Not saying it's going to happen with you.... but if you didn't find anything in the phone records and she's being nice to you are just going to assume it's over with OM?
Update...yes, I felt horrible about myself that I jumped back in so fast. So last night I confronted wife again about her lies. She denied and we got into a heated argument. I let her know how I knew the truth. I told her I used our cell phone records. Time and date and what number was called and for how long. Busted. So I asked her why she had to lie like this, when I just wanted some truth from her so i can walk away. Well, she said she didn't want to hurt me. I told her the lies hurt more. Then she went into saying that she will cut all communication with OM completely from now on. And she wanted us to address our marital problems that brought us to this Sitch. Happy to say, I had and still have the strength in me to tell her I was glad she has the courage to initiate steps in addressing our core problems, however, at this time I dont feel it. And I didnt care about our M much because of the lies and deceit. I told her I just want out of this M this point. Told her I don't trust her at all. I want to move on because the world we created is broken and I just don't have the desire to heal it. She cried and I left it at that. Next morning, she's back to her old self living each day as if she thinks I'm not serious. She thinks that I am going to soften up and take her back. In addition, I reiterated my boundaries to her again. I said to her what if OM calls her, she answered quickly, I'll just block his number.
As Im typing this she texted me to see if we were going to eat dinner together tonight like in 30 min. I ignored her text. Then I continue typing here and she just called. She asked if I got her text. I said yes. She asked if we were going to have dinner together I said it doesn't matter to me. She said hey why do you sound so mad. I said I'm not. I just don't care if we do or don't. 180 in the works. No more Mr.Pleaser. We ended the conversation with her coming home but Im not going to lift a finger in cooking for us. Detaching I am. Feels good. Will not backslide. Vets and or anyone, I need some suggestion as to how I should be. I am projecting a mellow DGAF kinda tone. Is this too harsh?
During the day, we worked together and I picked up no actions from her in wanting to work on our MR. I just left it like that and honestly I didn't care as much. Don't want to mind read but I think she's either thinking she's playing me well or she just wants a bit of calmness from our recent harsh arguments.
Vets, please chime in as you all have been there for me before with profound advice. Thank you in advance.
Cq1
Happy to say, I had and still have the strength in me to tell her I was glad she has the courage to initiate steps in addressing our core problems, however, at this time I dont feel it. And I didnt care about our M much because of the lies and deceit. I told her I just want out of this M this point. Told her I don't trust her at all. I want to move on because the world we created is broken and I just don't have the desire to heal it. She cried and I left it at that. Next morning, she's back to her old self living each day as if she thinks I'm not serious.
So you told her you want out and then you did what about it? Serve her with divorce papers? Why would she believe you if you don't do anything about it, besides just talking? It probably would have been better to give her an ultimatum like "I can't continue in a marriage like this. End all contact with OM or I will file for divorce." At least that would have her scrambling. Right now you told her you were done, apparently no matter what she does. Are you actually ready to do that?
In addition, I reiterated my boundaries to her again. I said to her what if OM calls her, she answered quickly, I'll just block his number.
Sure she will.
She asked if we were going to have dinner together I said it doesn't matter to me. She said hey why do you sound so mad. I said I'm not. I just don't care if we do or don't. 180 in the works. No more Mr.Pleaser. We ended the conversation with her coming home but Im not going to lift a finger in cooking for us. Detaching I am. Feels good. Will not backslide. Vets and or anyone, I need some suggestion as to how I should be. I am projecting a mellow DGAF kinda tone. Is this too harsh?
You don't sound mellow. You sound angry. Why would she stay for that? This is the time to GAL.... So what are you going to do tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day.....
Thanks reg. points well taken.
This morning, wife came down and asked if we could spend the day together with our kids. I was in a grouchy mood because of all the lies still. She caught me at the wrong time and so I told her that I had made plans with the kids already. It didn't include her. She changed her attitude right away and asked me with anger " so you don't want to see me anymore?" I didn't answer. Then she asked again, "so this is what you want, you don't want to see me anymore right?" I answered, "Im not sure, but as of right now, I don't." Then i asked her if she talked to that mf? she said no. I kbew she was lying so I put my hand up towards her and said dont say anything else. I don't want to hear lies." She closed the door with an attitude and left. I didn't pursue. I just continued my day. About 30 mins past and she comes down to get our cc statements and other household bills to pay. She had an attitude and i did not initiate conversation. Then, when we were standing next to each other. I put both of my hands on her shoulder, looked her in the eyes and said, " just yesterday you said you wanted to work on our R, you said things to me that I want to believe in but I don't. If you want me to believe in your words then do whatever you can to make me believe. And you know if we are ever going to make us work, you need to stop all contact with that mf ( sorry to swear, but that's how it went down). She looked me in the eyes and said "I know."
Something I forgot to mention, she said to me the other day when I was laying down my boundaries (couple days ago when she made a move towards our MR), she told me to trust her in handling the end of her contact with OM. Maybe she is doing it and doesn't want me to think that they still have an A going on. Oh believe me everyone, I'm as skeptical as ever. I don't trust my W one bit at this time because of all the lies. I'm sure anyone in my Sitch would feel the same.
So then she started cooking lunch and wanted to know if I wanted to eat. I said no. Then when she was almost done making lunch she said eat some lunch ok. I obliged. We ate together and everything was calm. Right after I was done, I thanked her and said it was good. Then I left.
At this point, I sense that she knows that I will leave her for good. So I'm mind reading that she may be ending the contacts with OM her way. However, and that's a big HOWEVER, I am still skeptical and haven't given up on the thought that I am getting played. If I am, I admit, she's really good at it. In my entire time of knowing my W, I've never seen her act so real to any kind of ploy. Usually, if not always, I know that if she was not happy with me she would go silent and ignore me. So why all the attention right now? If she is planning on being with the OM in the end, why is she so nice now to me? I ask myself, what do i have that she doesn't want me to do now? Is it because of my evidence of the A, that they do not wante to expose it to the OM wife? Why should it matter now if the OM wife already found out on her own? The only thing I can think of is she still wants me to continue to take care of our business while leading up to the big D. But I am doing it, even after I mentioned to her that I was done and and not fighting for our M anymore. It's like what MWD described about the seesaw. I backed off in fighting for our M now W is showing some signs of fighting for our M even though its very limited. Limited because she's still figuring out if she can be happy with our R.
Well as of now, I'm just taking one day at a time GAL and doing the things I want to do.
Vets ( Wonka, Sandi, Starsky, anyone...) I need some advice please. I'm not sure how I should act when I am with W. should I be happy, angry, or DGAS attitude? Continue GAL and ignore her advances on rekindling (slowly) with me? Feeling a bit lost and your advice is much needed now.
It's normal to feel lost and normal to be all over the place emotionally.
You seriously should call and get a DBusting Coach. I would ask for Chuck. They are the experts. Money well spent. They are TRAINED in these types of things. Why would you not get help from a coach when your marriage is teetering on the brink?
When a person has money issues, they go to a money expert.
When a person has a problem with their vehicle they can't fix, they go to a trained mechanic.
No different here. Get a coach. They can get you centered and on the right path. You won't be sorry.
Good luck.
Have you discussed any type of transparency plan with her? B//c when she says she will handle it her way, it is doubtful she will be able to end the A. If you have read about PEAS, you understand how OM is her drug of choice. Every time she sees his number pop up, how strong do you think she'll be? She has to end the A like an amputation. Quickly and completely! There is no tapering off. There is no going from lovers to just friends. So if she gives you that BS, don't accept it. It's not good enough.
She will experience withdrawal symptoms if she ends the A. Mine lasted for a long time. It's hard to bounce back into the MR while craving contact with OM. On fact, I don't think there is any "bounce". It is slow painful work. I don't think she can do it without support. But she has to agree to be open. No more secrets. She needs to know what to experience emotionally. She will moody and depressed.
If she is not willing to be transparent, then she hasn't closed the door to OM. She's playing you with all those old familiar lines. "You have to trust me to handle it my way". Trust??? Did she say trust her?
It is going to be slippery. You have to stand tall and firm. Stop with the mad moods. Remain calm, but firm in your boundaries. She may think she can end it, or she may be trying to figure a way to have both, IDK. Ending the A is the first step, but it is not reconciliation. You will need a good family therapist to guide both of you in piecing the M back together. It's a tough time.
Don't give up at this point. It can still happen.
Thanks for the vote of confidence JCred! Yes, I strongly urge you to speak to a Divorce Busting coach as soon as possible. There is much that can be done. Call me to discuss our coaching program. 303-444-7004 Cristy
"I'm not sure how I should act when I am with W. should I be happy, angry, or DGAS attitude? Continue GAL and ignore her advances on rekindling (slowly) with me? Feeling a bit lost and your advice is much needed now."
Act how you want to act. Definitely not DGAS. Either way you should always be GAL to get you strong emotionally and psychologically. She's not fully back into working on the relationship, so be cautious. Be pleasant but not overly so. It's hard when you've been waiting to see positives for so long. Patience is the key here.
FYI, you're going to have to start a new thread soon.