I'm not sure how to start.
In July 2013 I learned my husband had been having a long-distance affair with a 26 yo woman from his company. He works for an international organization and she is in another country. She has a daughter with some other guy (story gets a little confused here) that she told my H was over, but the guy either objects to it being over or it isn't really. Don't know and don't care. But my H and OW met at a company event while I was organizing a cross-country move for our 3 children & me to join him at the new state; affair started there (Jan. 2013). Became an electronic affair till they met again May 2013 when he was overseas. Apparently she started withdrawing because around this time he became very surly, avoiding the family, etc. He was chasing her and she was responding sporadically. July 2013 everything came to a head, the baby daddy told them that he knew everything and was going to contact me with all the information he had. My husband rushed to confess that night ahead of it. The next morning I found what the OW's guy had sent me -- screenshots of my husband being extremely explicit in texts with OW. It took a few days and he seemed reluctant, but he did send her a NC letter, and frankly I was relieved that all this was in the open, because in his confession he had suggested marriage counseling and I felt like all the staleness and distance of the last several years would finally start to be resolved.
All seemed well for a couple of weeks. We really connected again, asking questions and sharing our insights on things that went back to the first years of our marriage. I was happy and he seemed really happy too. Of course there was still pain and questions about the affair but we were connecting and that was a really good start.
After about 2-3 weeks he withdrew dramatically. It took a couple of days and then he said "but what if in ten years we find out we really aren't happy together and we should have split up now?" This was horrible to hear of course, but I stepped away from him and struggled to figure out how to respond supportively, even though it seemed like a foolish question to ask if we were both working on the marriage.
Turns out that was a lead-in to his next trip, when he saw her again and slept with her again and lied about it to me. The OW's guy tipped me off. Horrible response (I told him via text not to come home, then hours later said he could, because I worried about our children's reaction to losing their dad in that sudden way). Did not forgive so quickly this time, but we had a counseling appointment already in place so waited to see what that would bring.
Long story short, four months of counseling was a BIG waste of time, the counselor was not helpful at all. By January 2013 he was saying again ILYBNILWY a LOT, said he wasn't sure if "this was what he wanted" and that he felt like he needed space away from us. We fired the old counselor and found a new, much better one. Even so, things have deteriorated steadily till April 2014 when he finally said that his heart isn't in making this work and he kinda-sorta moved out (due to his very hectic travel schedule he's been camping at a local motel between trips rather than actually moved out; so the kids think he's traveling rather than moved out at the moment).
Two days ago I found out he had been spending our separation in contact with the OW, rather than working on the M as promised. He lied to the counselor when he said he didn't still have his mind on her. When I asked him why he was contacting her he said "There's a lot of history there" -- as opposed to the 18 years of history he shares with me, but that's just a vent. OW's guy isn't sure she actually came up to his room, but my H's texts to her said "say yes say yes say yes" and "I'll wait up in my room so you can make it up to me". H insists they only were together in the bar with other co-workers and never spent time together alone. I don't really care; I'm more angry about him being in contact and insisting he feels nothing for me and that OW is irrelevant to this lack of caring.
I'm in IC with the same counselor who does our MC; when I told him about all this yesterday he said that he had come to our appointment ready to tell me to give up on my H and prepare for D based on what my H has been saying in counseling the last few weeks. He said I ought to call a lawyer, which I've done.
I have read about half of DR. I don't want a divorce but I'm not sure I can get my H to want to come back to me. Our M was fairly disappointing the last several years but used to be really great and I want to make it that way again. I know a lot of what I've contributed to the failure of the relationship and am willing to turn it around, though I know it will take a long time to make that happen. I've also reacted really badly to all this over the last seven months or so -- basically been the anti-divorce buster. I'm trying to turn that around, in part by going dim till I can GAL and get my emotions under control.
My H says he isn't ready to talk about divorce, but that his heart isn't in making all this work. I don't know how much his interest in OW plays into that -- she doesn't sound like she's been all that receptive lately. We'll be telling the kids we're at least separating next week, and then he'll be leaving for a 3-week trip overseas, and the day after he gets back I'm taking the kids on our annual vacation with my family.
I'm sorry this is so long. I feel isolated -- only lived in this state for a little over a year, and I'm not accustomed to needing people, only to being needed. Somebody please, weigh in. I don't want a divorce; I don't know if it's possible to avoid one.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what he says and half of what he does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
So post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power
Since I found out he'd been in contact with the OW during our separation I have declined to speak to him. The evening of the day I found out he asked if I wanted to talk about it and I said no. I had an IC appt for the next morning and wanted to talk to our counselor before I would consider talking to him. Then counselor recommended as above.
Four times before I called the attorney I asked my husband if there was any reason I shouldn't. I asked four times because the first three times he responded as though I had asked a different question; the fourth time I said that his responses told me that he wanted a divorce and that I would go ahead and start that process.
So after I called the attorney I sent my husband a very matter-of-fact email saying when my appointment was, that I didn't want to talk to him, and stating some boundaries about living arrangements and the kids. I reiterated that we couldn't make a productive effort of reconciling if he was still wrapped up in the OW and said that I was done tolerating that. Then I went dark. He called the kids that evening (11, 8, 6) and asked to speak to me at the end. I asked him if he wanted to talk to me and he said he felt like he ought to touch base with me but really didn't have anything to say. So I ended the conversation. He has apologized several times, though he's been apologizing continuously since July and I don't feel convinced he really is apologizing for the affair ("inappropriate relationship" in his words).
Yesterday I texted him that I didn't want to talk to him but if he wanted to talk then I would listen. I did that because I've been throwing so many words at him over the last several months and saying I was ready to listen (which I truly am) is a 180 for me. He answered promptly to let me know he wasn't ignoring me but that he couldn't chat right then. Later he texted me that he didn't know what to say. I said we should leave it at that for now. He apologized again and I said "I hear you," he thanked me and said that was the best he could hope for. I said "I do want to hear you." He acknowledged he'd done a lot of things to hurt me and that my wanting to hear him was more than he had a right to expect. I told him I was going to end the conversation there because we weren't going to be productive at that moment, but repeated that I wanted to hear him and that if he wanted to talk I would listen. He thanked me and that was the end of that.
I read more of DR last night and I feel like it's sinking in in layers. Like I think I get it but I only get it to a point and then I have to reread and absorb a little more in order to really get it into my outlook on life. I have one good friend here who has been hearing the whole story since October and she's been tremendously helpful and supportive. She told me about a month ago that I needed to get back in touch with my sense of self-worth, so that's what I've been mostly working on in IC. I'm starting to believe that whether or not my M survives (or should I say, revives? reincarnated?) that I do have a right to be cherished and happy and that my actions should reflect that. This also is a 180 for me, though it doesn't directly apply to my interactions with my husband.
It's amazing how much it helps to get this all out there to people who are living through this pain to, even though I haven't had any responses yet. I'm terribly worried that this divorce will actually happen, but not because I'm afraid to live AFTER it; mostly because I so don't want to live THROUGH it, worried about each of my kids, worried about the friendships that won't survive, the pain we will be causing our families and friends, and the loss of someone who has been my best and longest-standing friend.
Thanks so much for listening.
Hi Maybell,
I'm sorry you are going through this. You will find a lot of helpful advice here.
You may want to reach out to Sandi2. She is very helpful in instances such as these.
Keep reading, researching, and most of all, don't lose hope.
Hi Maybell. Journalling really helped me - got the emotions out and slowed the circling and repeative thoughts down.
I too feel isolated and find this board very helpful.
Read some of the other threads on the board - it helps.
I've read of lot of books lately - most to do with self help/marraige/emotions, etc but also so biographies and funny books - just to give my mind a break...
Sorry that your find yourself here...I know it $ucks!
This morning is Saturday. I found out the renewed contact in OW on Tuesday. I have only spoken maybe ten words to my husband since Monday, when we had our most recent marriage counseling session. And just a few short texts and my email announcing my attorney appointment since then.
After the counselor found out my husband has been in contact with OW and lied about it in their individual session, he said he won't see my husband individually anymore and doesn't want to bother with joint sessions till my H makes a BIG gesture that indicates that he's taking the marriage seriously.
I don't know what such a gesture would look like and it's probably too soon to even wonder. Reading another thread, sandi2 said that he has to go through withdrawal from OW (I'm assuming what goes for WAW goes for H too?) before he can be ready to tackle marriage. What does that look like? He won't be NC for as long as they both work at the same company and they both have excellent reasons for not leaving.
When I write these things about my H it makes it sound like he's a using, abusing, cheating, lying man, but I'm totally floored by this behavior. He has always been incredibly responsible and resourceful. I would have sworn I was his one and only. Counselor has a theory he's ADD (with cause, and my H agrees) and though understanding that might be helpful to other areas of our marriage, it doesn't explain the complete implosion of our home life.
But I think I'm thinking too much about all this. I'm trying out a new mantra: Today is the day he won't come back. And I'm going to try the thought-stopping practices recommended on the infidelity forum so I don't continue thinking about him. It's not easy. I'm a SAHM who has made his entire life possible -- caring for all of it while he just went back and forth to work and social engagements.
And the kids are wilting and I don't know what to do about it. A great deal of his absence is legitimate travel and he will be gone the entire month of June. I can't change that at all.
I can't even tell if I'm following DB or not. I'm at sea.
Why is this my life now?
My 2 cents.
You need to focus all your energy on yourself and your kids.
You need to make life as easy for you as financially possible.
Make the time to exercise and go get your nails done. Make the time for continued IC. Maybe a massage. Or a housekeeper.
If your H wants a D he should do all the leg work not you - get yourself a good lawyer.
I would encourage your H to get an IC separate from yours but he should be seeing someone.
You are a mom so I know you can thrive through this because of your kids. Your kids will be so proud of you. They know in their heart all you do for their family.
Thank you all so much for the support here.
Just got off the phone with him. Had had a fit during the first try and hung up on him. Texted him after I calmed down that I wanted to try again and hear him better. Heard about his week, told him about mine; very tentatively we talked about our issues. Both of us choosing our words very carefully. He made a point of telling me that my friendship was really really important to him, and that he was aware that he had hurt me so much that it was hard for him to be even around me at all, couldn't even take friendship with me when he was hurting me so much.
Tried to claim OW is "a friend" but when pressed admitted that "it's complicated."
Agreed to put relationship efforts on back burner for now until the friendship was on a better footing.
I know I'm not supposed to believe anything he says, but I also know that (other than OW, who barely knows him) that he doesn't have hardly any really close friendships than mine. So valuing the friendship is a big deal, right? Or I should just quit finding strings to hang on to. (Which I know I should; even if we do somehow recover it will take a VERY LONG TIME.)
BklynMom, thanks for your words -- part of our conversation was that I need to be able to spend some money to get the kids enrolled in camps this summer because I need to not have them climbing the walls while I try to get myself reset (also I'm looking for a job, because it looks like the guy I trusted to always be there for me won't). At least he told me that I needed to not worry about camp expense.
I'm not looking forward to June. This is not the life I imagined for myself or for my kids.
Maybell,
Brooklyn Mom has given you some great advice. I'm sorry you are hear. I know you are in a difficult place and you should focus on you and your children.
One thing I differ on.....IC is only beneficial if a) someone is honest and b) thru are willing to do the work. Those 2 criteria alone are giant obstacles for most. Should your h seek IC? Probably. However, if he isn't honest or committed to addressing his issues, you may as well flush $$$$ down the toilet.
Take care of yourself and let your h deal with his stuff.
I'm still in moderation so if I'm repeating myself I'm sorry. Can't see what I posted most recently.
Had a long conversation with my H yesterday evening, trying just to connect without talking about relationship, separation, OW, or divorce. His end was talking a little bit about his travel and it was honestly so good to hear from him casually, that he was doing (even though it's for work) things that he used to enjoy that he hadn't done in years (golf, mainly, also poker with other guys, that sort of thing), and I felt bad that on my end what I was mostly telling him was how hard it had been with the kids. It was what I felt in the moment but we have been talking about strengthening our friendship and the kids are a tremendous worry to me right now. A lot of the joy has gone out of our house -- during car rides we don't sing together anymore, on our walks home from school they aren't as quick to notice the beautiful nature we enjoy in our town, they don't get excited about participating in family game night with me by myself.
A lot of this is on me, and I'm really trying to pull myself together and give them more of that cheerful energy. I'm not sure where to get it from, though. We're going to tell them about the separation this weekend and having that in front of me makes it almost impossible to find light-heartedness. Also kind of cruel, like it would make the blow seem even harder because they will fall so much farther. I've been trying to give them lots more hugs and cuddles, reassurances, encouragement, and attention to make up for the decreased happiness level in our house. I feel terrible for them, and guilty for failing to provide them with the sort of home I so badly wanted for them.
And I wish I had told my husband more about the good things about the week, how I had started getting back into my running & yoga, about the fun evening I had with my friend after the kids went to bed Saturday night, about going back to church. But I'm so worried about the kids... and part of me feels like he has made light of how this is going to impact them because he doesn't live it, and I need for him to understand how much they're going to need from him once he's back from all his trips. (In his letter asking for separation he said "the kids will be hurt but they'll be fine" -- like it was OK to hurt them now because they will eventually grow up.)
This morning I took a long walk, trying to figure out what I'm going to do with myself this week. Somehow, I don't have anything at all on the schedule except my IC appointment (I can add lunches & coffee with friends, yoga, runs, but at the moment my calendar is empty -- VERY weird, it almost never is). So I decided I'm going to clean and purge the house. It's something I have been wanting to do for a while, so it feeds me, and also I will have to do it if we end up having to sell the house, which would be one of the consequences of our failing to come back together. And I started going through the house in my head and thinking about things to get rid of and two of the things that I never use are a really nice, expensive mandolin for the kitchen, and also a VERY nice, expensive cookbook that my husband bought me several years ago. Both of these items are really complicated (the mandolin came with a DVD explaining how to use it), and both were given to my when my 3rd child was less than 2 years old (he's now 6). So I wasn't able to take the time to mess with them at the time he gave them to me and then they fell off my radar during multiple moves. Everything was always rushed. My H complained, once, a few months after he bought it, about me not making anything from the cookbook; this is VERY unusual for him, as he doesn't really talk about his feelings ever. And looking back, I realize that he probably feels like I didn't appreciate his thoughtfulness on those items, and perhaps felt disconnected because cooking was one of the things that we really enjoyed doing together when we were dating and newly married. Somehow it became a chore and a source of contention.
So I got to thinking about those items, and the ways in which we have disconnected over the last few years, and why, and what my responsibility was that I failed to meet, and it was humbling and upsetting. I kind of had almost a panic attack /breakdown right there on the sidewalk, but I breathed through it and thought through it, and though I'm still upset I feel like I've had a revelation. I can see some of the ways I've failed him and I need to change those things for myself, because I will take them to any new relationship if we fail to come back together. I realize I'm not a preferable, desirable, or even viable option as a partner for him at this time because of the ways in which I've failed to support him -- like, I tried to support him in ways that didn't matter to him, and failed to understand how to support him in ways that would, and he talks so little about his feelings and is in many ways so passive that I never understood how we were missing each other.
I don't know if I can make this right with him. I hope I can. I don't want us to divorce. He is my best and longest-standing and closest friend and even though we aren't connecting now it feels to me like he wants to nurture the friendship as much as I do. But he doesn't trust me with his heart, and I think I can see why. The OW doesn't even really factor into my thinking, because I feel like I wouldn't want me either, the way I've been. Is it a mistake for me to dismiss her like that? I mean, she's a deal-breaker as far as the relationship is concerned, of course, but at this point there is no relationship to speak of. Only a friendship I'd like to save, as potential precursor to building a new, sturdier (more thrilling) marriage.
Of course he has responsibilities and failings too, but I can't do anything about them. He certainly isn't motivated to. His relationship with OW has absolutely no future, even as a friendship, owing to the circumstances around it. So he can enjoy that fantasy for now. Is this a good attitude? It certainly goes against what my counselor, friend, and mother think, but I feel like it's letting go of a thing I can't change in order to invest myself in the things I can.
But then also the more I was thinking, the more I realized -- there are certain ways in which he has always failed to meet my needs, and that will never change, because of the kind of person he is. It just is, and a lot of what I love about him is the flip side of the reason why I know that he just will not meet my needs in those ways. I have a friend who, with a lot of counseling, has come to realize that her husband won't meet some very important needs of hers, and she has come to be OK with that. I didn't realize before today how resentful I was about things that I thought I had accepted. That resentment has certainly fueled a lot of the ways I damaged our relationship and I didn't even acknowledge it. Can I detach from having those needs met?
So now I'm thinking: If we split up, I have the chance to make a new relationship with someone who will meet these very important needs. (there's no OM waiting in the wings; I'm only talking about open-ended possibility here) But the cost would be VERY high. And I need to think about whether or not that is worth it. Right now, it's not. Will that change?
I'm sorry this is so long, and I hope it wasn't terribly repetitive. A lot of this is journaling for myself, too.
Less weepy today, which is wonderful. Reading about impact of divorce on kids; it's not hopeful. My kids are going to go through the wringer. Not to say they can't come out the other side, but it looks like it's going to be every bit as awful as I've been anticipating. Last night my S8 asked when he was coming home and when I said "tomorrow" I had to add "but I don't think he's going to stay the night." The look on his face hurt me. My husband hasn't had to see any of this yet.
This makes me so angry at my husband. That he could be so selfish, never (even still, after 6-8 months of MC) give me much of a clue about what exactly he has been missing from the relationship, or even that he seems to know; mostly he just has been trying to decide if "this is what he wants." So that I feel like I've been expected to mind-read for our entire marriage, and it is failing because I'm not telepathic. And now my kids are going to suffer, even if it's just for the period of a separation and we don't divorce.
I don't know where I stand. It's getting harder to remember good things from our relationship, though I know they are there, and I know that somewhere deep in this stranger who has taken over my husband there is a wonderful man who I love very deeply. Two years ago he would have been merciless in his ridicule of this sort of behavior.
I will be going to see my IC tomorrow morning but my H is coming home tonight from his trip to say good night to the kids and collect clothes for the week. Supposedly we are going to touch base about how we communicate the separation with the kids and figure out how to spend the weekend also. I'm curious to see how that's going to go.
He wants me to leave the house and let him stay here in the guest room while I go stay in his hotel room so he can be with the kids. I do NOT want to do that, but I also don't want to make things harder for my kids than it needs to be. The only alternative is for us to both stay in the house this weekend, with him in the guest room.
Any thoughts?
I know I'm not detaching, though I'm trying. I haven't spoken to him since the phone conversation mentioned above, and have only exchanged two emails (one where he asked me if he should get a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment, and one where I shared with him a book about helping kids through divorce). I don't really want to talk to him and I'm not looking forward to tonight at all.
If any of you out there are the praying types, I wouldn't mind if you could spare one for me, that I am able to contain myself when I see him, to listen, validate, respond thoughtfully, and not let myself get sidetracked or upset. I'll return the favor.
Thanks.
Hi Maybell,
I'm new at this as well so take my advice with a grain of salt.
I think before your WAH comes back, he's going to need to respect you.
Do you want to leave the house so he can stay there with the kids? If not, then don't! Show him that this was HIS decision. And HE will need to make arrangements if he wants to see the kids.
Making it easy for him might make him think you are a doormat. Would you want to be in a relationship with a doormat? No. Neither does he.
I'm not saying be mean or aggressive. Simply tell him you won't be leaving the house in a calm manner. He might spew anger over this but don't let him get a reaction from you. You are going to have to get it in his head, that you can and will live happily without him. Easier said than done, as I'm in the same boat you are.
Keep posting here, we're all cheering you on.
He wants me to leave the house and let him stay here in the guest room while I go stay in his hotel room so he can be with the kids. I do NOT want to do that, but I also don't want to make things harder for my kids than it needs to be. The only alternative is for us to both stay in the house this weekend, with him in the guest room.
Any thoughts?
First, sorry you find yourself here. Keeping posting and you'll get feedback from others.
I agree with what Thornton is telling you. If you don't want to leave your home and stay in your H's hotel room, don't do it. Be calm and tell him that you are staying in your home. If he chooses to stay there in the guest room, do something to GAL outside of the house while he is there. Meet up with friends, go to the gym, do something. He'll still have some time with the kids and you'll have some time to take care of you.
If he's looking for an apartment, then the window of time where he has noplace to take them for his nights with them is a limited amount of time. Get through it in the way that is best for the kids and okay for you.
I toyed with for a while the idea of asking H to pay for me to have a hotel room so I could have respite while he is overnight with the kids. You don't have to stay in HIS hotel room, I would also have an emotional problem with that. But you could stay somewhere, use the gym and hot tub, get a manicure, ask him to pay for it for you so that he can be with the kids until he has an appropriate home for them to come to.
That would be my first choice because a mom needs respite.
Second choice would be letting him stay in the guestroom while you stay in your room but definitely go out and don't hang around.
Whatever you decide as a way to handle this can be modified next time if you feel it didn't work out well, and will definitely change when he's in a permanent place where the kids have rooms. So just get through it for now and observe what is best for the kids.
This is just so not fun.
So last night was actually fairly pleasant. He got in from his trip and was dropped off at his car, which was at the office, and it was dead. So he had to call and ask me to come get him, which I did.
He kissed the kids good night and then I offered him a beer. He was glad to take it and sat down and seemed to (fractionally) relax. So we just spent some time talking about how the week had gone, books we'd been reading, shows we were watching. This was pleasant and he relaxed a fraction more.
There was almost no relationship talk. He started to and I stopped and asked him if it was important to him that we talk about that and he said no. I said I was burnt out on trying to process through everything that had happened, that it was not productive at this time, and that really we needed to just be in a place where we could speak pleasantly to each other since at a minimum we were going to have to co-parent for the next 15 years. He relaxed another fraction and agreed.
There were a few serious things we had to communicate to each other.
Apartments in town are almost all 1-year leases. He seemed apologetic about that (this isn't mind-reading, I just know him well). In a text a couple of days ago he was worried about the expense of a 2BR vs. a 3BR, because "this is our money." We have three kids, so I don't know what his thoughts are about this.
He doesn't want to plunder the house for furniture at all, but seems to have no clue how he's going to furnish it. He has only thought of 1 bed, for himself; but as I say, we have THREE kids. This should be interesting. I do not intend to help him at all.
He was anxious that I not spend a ton of money on lawyers. This seems insane to me. He is an executive, we are fairly well off, though we've moved so frequently that our finances are relatively simple all things considered. In some ways it's like this is all so unreal to him that he can't fathom that lawyers are even called for. (Is someone going to call me out for mind-reading?) He says he's not ready to consider divorce yet, which is why I'm working hard to just make our interactions for the time being pleasant and light. Anymore weight will just break him in two; nor will it help my state of mind.
I've decided to ignore the "friendship" with the OW. She's in another country and he won't be going back there for the foreseeable future. She can't come here because of her daughter. She is in no position to provide him with anything more than conversation, and apparently she turned him down for sex the last time he was there. This won't go away by my pitching a fit about it. I don't think this is feeding him cake, but if anyone has other views I certainly welcome them.
I told him I wasn't going to leave the house this weekend. I said there was no way I was going to drop a bomb like that on the kids and then disappear for the weekend. He is not happy about it -- objected to staying in the guest room on the grounds that it would be confusing for them. I held my position.
I think my guy has lost his mind. He's working WAY too hard, he's trying to keep a lot of plates up in the air and has been adding to them by planning a new household for himself, and he's ADD (not treated). He's losing his hair and has been worrying about that a lot, almost every day. I am worried about him.
OK, so worrying about him is not detaching. Today I feel OK. I feel like I have a handle on what the next year is going to be like (though I don't know the outcome, but I am managing my responsibilities all right and I know whatever comes is within my range of abilities), so I feel like for today I can worry about him coming to pieces without feeling like it's making me come to pieces. I couldn't do that a week ago.
How do you all write such short posts? I feel like I'm writing novels every time I show up here. But thanks for providing this space and some feedback, it really helps.
He said tonight that my working so hard to turn things around makes him feel worse about what he's done to me. He can see the changes I've made. Still doesn't know if we'll stay married.
Of course not. And my mistake for trying to even find out. Stupid me. But we're telling the kids about separating this weekend. And I've been reading a book about how this is going to hit them and I feel sick.
He told MC last week that he feels more at peace away from me. Of course; he feels guilty AND he was communicating with OW. Of course he doesn't want to face me now. So easily solved from my perspective. Reminder to me: OW is an absolute deal-breaker and best case scenario it will take a long time to assure she's gone. Which I assume she isn't yet. Grrrrr.
At least my state has a one-year waiting period for a full divorce. I need more patience. I wish I were built differently.
He's signing a lease today. This was really hard for me.
Things to fear:
1. There is an OW in the wings and this is a first step out the door and I don't know it. Other kinds of lying. (Separate from the OW I know about that I choose to ignore)
2. We won't recover.
Things to be angry about:
1. The impact of this on the kids.
2. Why can't he find himself from home??
3. Why couldn't we have interacted more honestly throughout our relationship so we didn't get to this point?
4. How hard it is to put any trust in what he's saying now about trying to grow into a place of honesty in our dealings with one another.
Things to be happy about:
1. If real, the conversations between the two of us have been closer and more real than they had been in years.
2. Love and support from friends and family that I've never permitted myself to rely on.
3. Twenty pound weight loss!!
4. Television, books, and Candy Crush that can distract me from obsessing.
5. My own self, how social I've always been, the network I've built for myself, the resources I have that make GAL kind of a done thing.
6. My own self, that I am resourceful enough to make reasonable plans and understand how to bring them about.
7. That we are well enough off that I don't have to worry about the house at this time.
8. My beautiful, precious children. (God grant we pull together to help them weather the awful bomb we're about to drop on them)
9. The possibility of experiencing a first kiss again, the butterflies of dating someone who excites me, the idea of coming back to life after years of just being a SAHM whose fairytale was permanently in the "happily ever after stage." What a boring place that was. Now life can be fresh again, whether it's eventually with my husband or with someone else.
10. No matter what, he's in my life for forever. Mine or not, he's a great person (in spite of the pain of the last year-plus). I've grown because of him from when I was 23. I can choose to live in friendship with him or I can choose to live in enmity; whether or not we are married we can be peaceful with one another. That choice I get to make.
This year is going to happen no matter what. It's not going to be "my lost year." It's going to be "my found year." It's going to be intentional. I don't need to miss anything just because my husband doesn't want to live with me right now. I've got this.
Woke up at 4 am disturbed, unsure why I can't sleep. After an hour realized I'm so angry and disgusted by him I want to choke.
I want to reunite my family, but is it normal to be unsure if the WH is worth the investment?
I have an appointment with an attorney in two weeks. I'm thinking about how to prep, not sure what my options are or what I should do to protect myself but in such a way that I don't destroy my chances of rebuilding with him.
He asked me not to spend too much on the lawyer, but he is trying to rent a swanky 2BR downtown, furnish it for himself with no provision for kids. (But at the moment wants them almost 50/50, except for me to "babysit" while he's at work).
I'm going to do what I think is right about the lawyer.
I do care about OW, she's a deal-breaker. But I'm not going to break my heart over her.
Am I normal? To want to put our family back together, to want our old age together, and also to want to see him choke on his own cruel and selfish choices? How does a person overcome this anger and stand for the marriage?
I am SO not looking forward to this weekend.
^^^ totally totally normal!
And regarding spending money: every time I am faced with a choice about spending $$ on something that will help me heal and grow (therapy, a weekend retreat, a lawyer), I remind myself that he has spent thousands so far on apartment, furniture, etc so that he can heal and move on away from me. So, we do what we need and deserve to do to move on.
The reality for your H is that separation or D are really really expensive! And all your $ (at least in my state) is communal property. So, don't spend out of spite, and now that what you spend now is what you won't have on your own later if you D, but make the choice that feels right for you.
If I were you I would definitely consult a L to see what my rights and options were. Your future and financial security is at stake.
Told the kids this morning. They took it quietly.
He has made a lot of noise about how important my friendship is to him. I told him yesterday that OW is a deal-breaker. I can't be friends with someone who is confiding in a person who is such a huge source of pain to me. That is my issue and has nothing to do with what I think of the relationship at all. But it is a deal-breaker. I think he heard me. But I don't expect to know what he decides about that, or when. And it wouldn't matter, because his word is no longer good and I don't have the means to check up on him since so much of their communication occurs on technology that I don't have access to. So we'll see what happens.
He has been thoughtful in big and small ways, so there is at least the possibility that we may be friends again someday, because nothing new is happening to excite my hostility. And I'm proud of how self-aware I've been, walking away when I feel too emotional, finding things to do while he's here, etc. This evening after the kids go to bed should be interesting.
I still feel like I'm on the right track for myself. I don't know what will happen with the marriage. But setting my own expectations for what I need is very freeing. He may come back or he may not. We may end up divorced, or not. I may have to sell the house, or not. Either way there are things to look forward to so I'm trying to be curious about the future rather than hung up on it. Right now I just want my kids to be ok.
All that said, I'm a little distracted by some teeny-tiny in-law issues. Sigh. Humans are so imperfect.
Second-guessing myself about the friendship thing. We've lived without it a long time and I value it too... Maybe continue slowly developing it? On the other hand, we are being more careful to be honest with one another lately so perhaps just putting that out there and continuing to be reserved about my side of things would be better?
I don't know hoe to draw these lines. This is such uncharted territory.
Second-guessing myself about the friendship thing. We've lived without it a long time and I value it too... Maybe continue slowly developing it? On the other hand, we are being more careful to be honest with one another lately so perhaps just putting that out there and continuing to be reserved about my side of things would be better?
I don't know hoe to draw these lines. This is such uncharted territory.
Hi maybell, when you have time search pearlhorbor's threads. I learned a lot about boundries, especially if op is involved. Big hugs to you for having to tell your kiddos, that is so hard. I grew up in MD and miss it there!
Thanks, MamaB, that helped!
He's been here all weekend, including spending the night last night in the guest room. We had an enjoyable evening watching TV (probably the best in months) and I had no problem just saying good night to him and going to bed. Slept fine.
Today, not so great.
I got dressed and went to church. Looked AWESOME (thank you, 20 pound weight loss). Met him & kids for lunch, then went to park for a while, then for ice cream. He sat next to me at the park, but I didn't talk to him. I had nothing to say and I figured if he cared he could make some conversation.
My 6yo fell at the park and scraped his elbow. This didn't bother him until we were walking to the ice cream place. After listening to some whining my husband said "He's hurting, I'm going to take him home now. Can you wait here for S8?" I said "do whatever you want." S8 had maybe three bites of ice cream left, and we were maybe 100 feet behind them when we got moving. At one point he turned around and looked at me. He never stopped for us until S8 caught up to them on his scooter. I didn't say anything because I know he'd make an excuse, and I know what the excuse would be, but I've been reading pearlharbor's threads and the "setting them free" thread.
You don't treat friends that way.
I have the appt with the attorney for next week and I've been waffling about what I was going to do there. But now I think I'm going to file.
We had a brief conversation about finances & separation last night. H shuddered when he said "I'm not ready to talk about custody" and he couldn't even say lawyer -- he just said, "What are you going to do about your appointment with that person?" And ASKED ME TO TELL HIM WHAT I LEARN so he can know what to expect! I've been digesting professional interactions for this guy for 16 years and he expects me to hire an attorney for myself and tell him what HIS options are? he's in la-la land!!!
What am I going to do? I'm going to show him that I know how I deserve to be treated. I'm going to bring his pigeons home to roost. The only things I have left to lose are civil conversation and the house. I'm fine with that. I actually think I am less likely to lose the civil conversation if I pursue a divorce because then he'll know I mean what I say.
Today he asked me to take delivery of the sofa sleeper for his new apartment!
I said "That's a big request" and he took it back. There were a few more words about it, among them me saying "If you want to be separate, then we need to be separate." I wish I had left that out. When will I learn to not speak so quickly???
I'm starting to say no to him more. I don't want to be around him for a while. I'm glad he's got such a huge travel schedule in June. It will be nice to relax and not have to brace myself for our interactions.
I'm not doing as well at this as I'd like to believe. I wish I were doing better. Though I wish I weren't going through it at all.
You are doing well Maybell. This is hard stuff. The impotant things that I learned from pearlharbor, and all the advice she got, was that strong boundaries are a must and for YOU. Also al0ng with boundries you need to GAL and work on those things that you feel will make you a better you. (you probably know this already)
If your H was asking you to go to his home for the sofa delivery, well yes to me that is a big request. Next time he wants your time tell him "sorry, I have plans that day" or something like that. I have been trying to show my boundries through actions, not words (although I was much better at this before H wanted C and now I need to figure out my line.) Anyway, I felt your strength in the post before your last one. You have this.
Things are shifting and I'm not sure where I stand anymore.
I've gone pretty dim since Sunday -- asked him not to stick around on Sunday evening after he put the kids to bed, went out with a friend and got a margarita while he watched the boys on Monday, not texting or talking at all except when he initiates. But he has started kind of following me around a little. He looked surprised when I asked him to leave on Sunday, but I was so exhausted, I couldn't be around him anymore. It just took too much energy. He took the kids to Target Monday and sent me *15* texts asking where to find things, whether I approved his choices, etc. Tuesday we got an IRS thing in the mail that needed a signature, so I sent him a one-sentence email letting him know it was there, but it could have waited till he was next at the house. Instead he came over early from work, signed it, and then stuck around while I made dinner for the kids noshing on vegetables off the plate while I cut them, asking if I needed help with anything (I just raised my eyebrows at him), and then saying again, before he left, "I really want to be able to help with something." (OK, great, why couldn't you have HELPED take care of our marriage???) Wednesday he sent three texts letting me know he was stopping by the house to pick up something he'd forgotten and offering me his car while he's out of the country. I answered one, with one line.
Yesterday waiting in the car line to pick up my kids, I was playing around on Facebook and saw that he'd posted a link to a song. He hadn't posted anything but runs prior to that in almost a week. (prior to BD posted multiple times a day) His method of communication when he wants to be really eloquent is sharing song links. The song he linked was "Zigzagging Toward the Light." Curious.
So now I'm thinking all the following around, too much texting and wordy emails from this very uncommunicative guy, and the song link are messages for me. Perhaps.
And I don't know how I feel about it.
I mean, he said a lot of incredibly hurtful things (I only married you because everybody else was getting married; I don't remember being happy with you; I've been going through the motions for years) in the name of "honesty" and "authenticity" -- all the while he was carrying on an EA/PA with OW in another country. So not a ton of authenticity or honesty there. Nor has he been honest or authentic with anyone else in his circle.
My S8 this morning told me he didn't sleep well because it's hard to sleep when you're crying over how much you miss your dad.
Can I ever forgive or re-enter a relationship with a person who has inflicted this much gratuitous pain on me and on my kids? Why would I?
And of course it's probably too soon to even ask this question. But really, ought I to stand for a marriage with a person who is capable of all this? Would I want my kids to?
The truth is, that question, would I want my kids to, is trickier than it looks. Because I want my kids to be people of integrity, to stand by their commitments, to be strong enough to see the good in a person who has behaved horribly, recognizing that any of us are capable of phenomenally huge mistakes and deserving of forgiveness. On the other hand, where is the limit for what we should be willing to stand for? If my kids made mistakes like his, would I want the message to be "there is a limit to my love, there are circumstances under which I am justified in casting you off"?
I don't know anymore if I want him back. I don't want him as he is, but sometimes I see glimmers of his true self in there and that guy, yes, that guy I want back. But I don't know if that guy is still around, or if I will ever be able to see him without also seeing the guy who could tell me he only married me because everyone else was getting hitched.
HELP. Please.
Wow Maybell!
You have asked yourself a lot of really important questions. (I struggle with the very same things). But I think it's ok to pose the questions to yourself right now without worrying that you need to have answers to them at this moment. Just continue being the strong woman and mom you are, and take things one step at a time. Stay on your journey, and let your H continue on his.
Re: forgiveness... my H was the one who left, but neither of us were happy. Am I *that* much "better" of a person because I simply stuck around? It's not like I took any steps to make things better. Not sure how that compares to your sitch, but I do think of my side when I consider forgiveness, etc...
Maybell, sorry I have not read through your entire story but how would you say your M was before all this began? If you look at things very objectively were there things that you contributed to making your marriage vulnerable to this? Or is this really 100% on H?
In my case, the truth is I have not been the best wife. H certainly made his mistakes as well (pre-A and then obviously the A) but I could be pretty harsh, controlling, often rejecting of him. I most definitely have accountability. And that is a big reason why I feel driven to stand for the M and give him another chance. Really, he would be giving ME another chance as well if he recommitted to the M. While there is NO excuse for what he did I can see how I led him to the well, he chose to drink the poison and needs to take full accountability for that but I definitely had a hand in getting him there.
When H and I were in MC during our initial (failed) reconciliation attempt he said that what he really wanted was to feel with ME what he was feeling with OW. He used to feel for me what he felt with her. He was so clearly trying to recapture that, he even did a few things with/for her that he did for ME in our early very romantic days. Now obviously he should have been doing those things for/with me but I think he felt he had tried and was simply at a point of giving up. That the only way he could keep his family intact (which I know he loves) and be happy was to secrectly have this OW on the side to fill what was so sorely missing. It really makes me quite sad when I think about it.
Please know, I am certainly NOT making excuses for him, it's certainly a God awful mess he has created and a world of hurt he has inflicted. Often I think, the punishment does NOT fit the crime! But on some level I think I can understand it, at least in my case. And I guess that's why I feel like I probably can forgive if we ever try to reconcile.
Don't know if that applies to you at all...my two cents ;-)
Maybell,
I think you have WAH thinking. Take a moment and think what you were doing/saying to elicit the increased contact from him. Perhaps you are feeling more detached and he can sense it?
Keep doing what works and don't let your resentment creep up on you. I often hear that this is the case when the balance of power begins to shift from WAH to LBS. It'll be your job to reign in those feelings for the time being and not rip him a new one.
Also, remember even though you feel anger right now (rightfully so), your feelings tomorrow may be of longing for WAH again.
Take things slow and don't react at this stage in the game.
Also, regarding the hurtful things he said early on... Believe none of what the say and only half of what they do.
Thank you all so much for responding.
Yes, I definitely have some accountability for the failure of the marriage prior to the A.
In the couple of years leading up to the A, we had a financial crisis of sorts that led to us selling our house and moving into a TINY rental. It took six months to sell the house and the actual sale was kind of nightmarish. The rental house was VERY small and a little bit humiliating for a guy who is doing very well in his job and also who needs a certain amount of "cave" time to feel refreshed. He definitely felt VERY stressed during that time between work and home and there was very little I could do to alleviate that; nor did I get much opportunity to; nor did *I* handle those changes well during that time. I had tried to talk to him about feeling like we needed to do more to tend to our relationship but it was a bad time for both of us and neither of us did a good job of communicating AT ALL. Additionally, H insisted throughout that it was all fine, and though it clearly wasn't, there's not a lot you can do when he won't engage and I'm just frantically rushing around trying to make everything comfortable for everyone but myself. It was a very troubled time that only ended when we made a cross-country move back to the East Coast. Unfortunately, during the transition while I was still out west and he was here is when the affair started.
When he confessed the A (15 minutes before I received an email from OW's baby daddy detailing it), part of the confession was a request that we get straight into counseling. So my thought was, great, we can finally get all this straightened out and get on a good footing again. Then the lying started and he resumed contact with OW. My anger with him is ENTIRELY with his behavior following my finding out about A. How he came to be in an affair... that, I'm sorry to say, I get. And although I never had an affair, I do know what it feels like to be so disillusioned with the marriage. We have done, and are capable of doing, a lot better.
Of course, my behavior following the confession was ENTIRELY exemplary. Not. So I do have that regret as well, though in my defense I didn't know any better. For what that's worth.
That said, Thornton is right. I wait fifteen minutes and miss him like crazy and am totally willing to forgive him. Which kind of scares me, I don't want to expose myself or the kids to this kind of hurt again.
Yes, backing off seems to be making an impact. He's traveling internationally for the next three weeks and then I take the kids on our annual family vacation without him, so I have a month when it will be pretty easy to stay quite dim.
Thanks for the reminder to believe none of what he says. My friends and family have come out of the woodwork reminding me of all the ways in which we had a really enviable relationship not that long ago, but still, it's hard to hear.
Appreciate you all!!!
You have some time to DB and that year is a blessing for you in MD. I know. All the crazy stuff is just part of everybody's own issues, whatever they are at the given moment. Go dark for a month and limit any talk about kids. Give him time to think, think and then think. Maybe it won't work, but at least you know you're doing the DBing. Talk with a DBing coach.
Our stories have some similarities. My H also initially agreed to MC (called the counselor himself) and broke it off with OW initially. Seemed very sincere in his interest in reconciling but then pulled away and we separated for 10 days. Then agreed to MC and working on it again and then pulled away and we are now separated again since May 1 (at my request, I could not take his ambivalence anymore). He has never said he wants D but also never really committed to the work required to make this right. I have no evidence that he reconnected with OW but I've strongly suspected it. I am also most angry about the back and forth/ambivalence about working on the marriage. I don't get it and it's very frustrating. All I know for sure is he's clearly highly confused about what he really wants. How long I am willing to wait out his confusion, I am not sure.
And our friends and family were utterly shocked. Not that we had an incredible marriage but everyone always thought we were a very compatible, happy couple. Looks are deceiving, I guess.
So how do you all handle apologies?
My H called from overseas last night to talk to the kids. When they were done with him he asked to talk to me and I surprised myself by being able to feel friendly but detached. So we were able to have a light, friendly, brief conversation.
He apologized for being away. (Not his fault; necessary to his work). He apologized for "all this" -- the state of the marriage, basically.
Sometimes when we're having a good conversation via text he'll apologize for "all this" and because I feel like I have to acknowledge him I will just say "I hear you." On the phone or in person I try to just ignore it.
I don't know what his apology means to him. I don't know what my accepting it would mean to either of us. I don't know what exactly he is apologizing for (does it include OW?) or if he really means it. I accepted a lot of apologies before he moved out but they mean something different to me now. My understanding of an apology is that a change of behavior is implied (I'm SORRY I did that and I don't want to do it again), but since he's obviously not moving home or making moves to change the way he behaves in the relationship then it's hard to accept an apology for where it's at. Or I just don't have all the information about what he thinks it means and because I'm trying to be dim/avoid R talks I'm not going to probe for it.
Any thoughts?
My H does the same and I don't say anything.
My H apologizes a lot, too. I think in my case my H is apologizing for the pain he's causing. I think that is sincere. He doesn't want to hurt me or our D7, but he feels like what he's doing is necessary for his happiness. That's the perspective I try to take when he apologizes and I try to accept it. Now, there is not an OW in my situation and I'm not sure how that would color my reaction if there was.
Giving him too much of my energy today. And he's not even on this continent. He texts the kids, and because S6 doesn't have his own device all those texts come to my phone. But he has't contacted me, except when he calls to talk to kids. Why should I care? I set the boundary about OW and I expect he will let our relationship die, so he doesn't have to do the hard thing of giving her up.
Then on the other hand I wonder why I would want to be with someone who never seemed to nurture our relationship or acknowledge that it needed nurturing. Or that *I* might need nurturing. Or that *he* needs nurturing -- always insisted he was fine, that he didn't need anyone to take care of him. If I did anything nice for him and ask if it mattered to him he'd say "well, that was really nice, but it wasn't necessary." I felt like I could never reach him.
So why am I pining after him? Why would I want to beat myself up with love for someone who doesn't care if I love him or not? (MC says it's the ADHD that makes him act that way... but this is all I know of him)
I wish I mattered to him. And also I wish I didn't care if I mattered to him. Not detached very well today, am I?
I had a great time out with friends last night, laughing our heads off. Going to church this morning then taking kids to see a movie we've been looking forward to for months. Tonight we'll have a real made-from-scratch dinner and then maybe play a board game or something. I'm so lucky to have so much of them at least through all this. I have been practicing my 180's with them since my H is out of the country and I feel like such a better, calmer person. I don't even care if he sees that because I can tell how it matters to my kids and how it matters to me. I sweat the small stuff less. Lots of GAL activities planned for this week.
Also my attorney appointment. I still don't really know what I'm going to do there. I'm anxious about the fact that I even HAVE an appointment with a divorce attorney. I never expected to be here.
Now I'm going to pull up my big-girl pants and get back to not letting him bother me.
I think you are doing really well regardless of how you are feeling today.
You are doing all the rights things re: GAL and being a good mom. Keep going, one foot in front of the other.
Divorcebusting says patience is critical so keep that in mind, this is a marathon, not a sprint.
Remember to breathe and enjoy your kiddos today.
I'm pulling for you!
I feel like such a better, calmer person. I don't even care if he sees that because I can tell how it matters to my kids and how it matters to me. I sweat the small stuff less. Lots of GAL activities planned for this week.
...
Now I'm going to pull up my big-girl pants and get back to not letting him bother me.
You got this, Maybell. Do you have a mantra? "I am better, and calmer, and it matters to my kids" has a nice ring to it. Repeat it to yourself (800 times a day, if needed), every time you feel down. Don't beat yourself up for feeling sad. It would be kind of weird if you weren't sad at all, right? But that doesn't mean you can't ALSO be strong and move on.
Thanks, Claire & Thornton.
I'm not sure what happened to me today. Yesterday I was great. Today I'm a wreck. I just want to wake up and find this was all imaginary. I hate that I'm here. I miss my husband. I miss my best friend. Where did he go???
Thanks for your support.
It's all a part of the process. I'm struggling a little bit today too with missing WAW.
Let's break it down into baby steps and just focus on making it through today ok?
Me too guys...it's a rough day today. I think it's because it's Sunday and we start another week without them...that's all I think it is. We just need to to keep PMA and welcome another week of bettering ourselves...after all, by now most of us have been alone longer than 1 week so we have a blueprint to follow now. Time passing is our friend, not our enemy in our cases, so that's how I try and look at it.
Right there with you, Maybell. It gets better...
Maybell - Don't beat yourself up over a bad day. Try to remember that the process isn't linear. I'll feel really great for up to a couple of weeks at a time. Then, I'll have a day where I feel like I'm going to cry if somebody asks me how I'm doing. I think (hope) that the good periods will continue to get longer so the days on which I feel like a wreck come less often.
((((Maybell))))
Thank you!
So lucky -- some friends invited us over for dinner and it was a great evening, especially for S8 who was thrilled to spend the evening with an astronomy PhD.
Tomorrow is a new day. Hugs to all you lovely people.
How awesome for your S8! My D7 was so excited when she found out that my boss majored in aeronautical engineering. She thought it was the coolest thing ever and loved hanging out at my office to talk to him.
"Tomorrow is a new day" has become my mantra over the past several months.
Today I'm assembling documents to take to my first attorney appointment. Feeling AWFUL, angry with him for bailing on a half day with the kids, angry that we are in this place rather than dealing with it like we care about each other, angry that we couldn't have dealt with it before it came to this (some of that anger is self-directed). Uncertain about his feelings, because he has been so reluctant to talk about lawyers, etc., and then aggravated because waiting around for him to take care of the relationship is part of how we got here.
And then at the bottom of all of it is a horrible deep sadness, because I care about him and miss him, and I miss the good guy hiding inside the crazy selfish lost person who is making all these hurtful decisions. And I don't want to be divorced from him.
Last night S8 couldn't sleep because he was crying for missing his dad. So I had him send a text video. He got a reply a few minutes later and went to bed slightly less miserable. H texted me a little while later asking what he could do to help with these things and I said "send him messages before he gets so miserable that he's crying."
He said ok and I said that everyone here was ragged from the last two months. He said "I'm tired. I can only imagine how hard it's been for them. And you. I'm sorry. I feel bad that I've created so much pain and hardship for everybody." I said "I'm sad that all this has felt like your best option." He said "I don't know what to say to that. I'm sorry that it seems that way. There don't seem like any good options right now."
I changed the subject to a book he had bought on our joint kindle account. It's called "This is How We Say Goodbye" and it's about a guy whose wife cheated on him and then told him she was pregnant right before his father dies and he has to go sit shiva with his dysfunctional family for seven days. My H told me not to read too much into the title of the book and then was too embarrassed to talk about it because of the cheating part. So there was that light conversation down the tubes. We said good night at that point. (He really is very tired after way too much international travel; this would be a really tough time for us even if we were happily married).
This morning S6 woke up with a tension headache so I texted H and asked him to FaceTime the little guy to see if that would help. After the call I just missed him a ton. I texted him "Are you in the middle of anything?" and while I waited for his reply realized that asking him if he still values my friendship would be pursuing so when he answered I said Never mind, sorry. He pursued it a little bit and then said "I'll be here if you need me. Was just getting into the office before."
I don't know how to proceed. It's hard to DB and act cheerful when my children are struggling so badly. He would never believe it anyway. I have always been capable with all his travel and there is no 180 I can do in that area that would be a positive change for him to see or me to feel, because his career has demanded that I manage everything except the money (and our financial problems a few years ago meant that I took some of that over and he lost even more authority in our household).
I'm starting to feel like his Love Language for giving love is acts of service, and the difficulty is that he's home so little to give acts of service. And I'm competent enough that there doesn't seem to be a lot of space for him here. And his love language for receiving love is physical touch, but of course that's off limits right now. My 180s have been responding with more patience to the kids and to him, and responding to things that frustrate me more slowly, to not nag or pursue him, and to place the boundary on our friendship while he's in contact with OW. I guess reaching out to him to help me with the kids when they are upset has been kind of a 180, in that I never tried to demand that from him before... But it's never been needed like it has been lately.
Great meeting today with my IC who was our MC and has a lot of insight into H's ADHD. I invariably feel better able to cope after I meet with him. Really dreading my attorney visit in the morning but I'm as prepared as I can be and I know I'm doing the right thing, so that's something. I'll see my H this weekend. Unclear how that will go. I think he's as apprehensive about the attorney visit as I am -- possibly more so since I have done my research and know what my intentions are.
It's a dark tunnel I'm journeying through at the moment and I look forward to coming to the end of it. There's a long, long way to go, though, and I don't know where it's leading. God grant me grace to travel it in strength and kindness and gratitude.
Hang in there Maybell, I know this is hard. Stay strong, you can do this.
Thanks, Thor.
Can someone explain how my H could be content to let an 18 year relationship die because he can't think of what to say?????
Grrr... Just backslid big after doing well for a while. FRUSTRATED. Don't want to be here. Don't want to have retained a lawyer to draft a separation agreement. HATE that my best friend of 18 years, four states, eight homes, the father of my three children is in such a stupid place right now. However frustrated he may have been with me the business of my life has been to smooth his path and he didn't even give us a chance.
What do you know... Pointing out that he wasn't pulling his weight on maintaining a friendly relationship (while specifically excluding the marriage relationship) seems not to have been a cheeseless tunnel after all. Who'da thunk?
Keep your head up Maybell. This is far from over.
What do you know... Pointing out that he wasn't pulling his weight on maintaining a friendly relationship (while specifically excluding the marriage relationship) seems not to have been a cheeseless tunnel after all. Who'da thunk?
hey Maybell, just caught up on your situation. Seems like you are doing as well as could be expected in the current situation.
You seem very strong and have adopted the DB concepts quickly for the most part. At least a lot quicker than I did......
Can you say a bit about what you were thinking or what was going when you posted the comments above?
Stay strong!
Hi, SemperFi
In our last MC session when things had gone so far downhill really quickly, the MC commented that it seemed that we had had a really strong friendship and a close connection throughout even though H's romantic feelings for me seemed to have died and would not be recovered. MC commented that even if we never recovered the M he was certain that we would be friends again. H has commented a number of times how important my friendship & respect is to him and since he is so uninterested in repairing the M relationship I figured I would start with the friendship, since that's the part I care most about anyway (and it's inconceivable to me that a truly close friendship between him & me would not ultimately lead to reconciliation).
Since he was on board with that I said it was time to stop looking backwards and to just reconnect as friends as best we could for going forward. The trouble is that he has been so busy apologizing for the way things have been going in the M -- the separation, the affair, his travel, etc. -- that he can hardly talk to me and avoids interacting as much as he can get away with. This is also a part of why our marriage failed (not that I had nothing to do with that, but it's harder to correct problems when you aren't aware of what they are).
So yesterday I told him that it was not possible for us to build a friendly relationship, which is truly necessary for co-parenting, if he kept avoiding me and not engaging. This wasn't a terrible thing to say, but I didn't say it very nicely at all. (I did eventually backtrack and add some validating statements to it, but initially I was pretty much of a B) I really miss him a lot, I think he's behaving foolishly, and I'm frustrated about some of his other choices that are going to impact us badly. And he has said he's open to reconciling but isn't ready to go there at this time.
He had to go back into meetings after I confronted him about that but several hours later reached out on his own to let me know that I was right and that he was sorry for that and that he would try to do better.
And today he booked an earlier train back into town. Like, by three hours earlier.
So although I could have handled that interaction better, it seems that he needed to be reminded about how ineffective avoiding a problem is, and he actually was willing to hear me. He also thanked me for being patient and understanding. So although it wasn't entirely the interaction I wanted, he did initiate it, and he did use kind of a lot of words which is a big deal for him, so it wasn't a totally cheeseless tunnel after all.
BTW, SemperFi, don't think I grasped the DB concepts quickly. I did EVERYTHING wrong for 7-8 months. Buying DR and joining the forum were pretty much the last ditch changes I made AFTER the separation was a done deal. And even after I started all that he still has been chasing OW. If I'd had these resources sooner I might have been able to avoid part of the train wreck. So don't beat yourself up too much, we do the best we can with who we are and what we've got.
So H's birthday and Father's Day are only a few days apart. He specifically asked me not to get him anything for his birthday (40th) this year because he would feel wrong accepting a gift from me given how much pain he's caused me.
Today he said he wanted a Bluetooth speaker for his iPhone from *the kids* for birthday/father's day. I told him to send me a link (he gave me a very nice birthday present in April but no Mother's Day gift, unless you count the grocery store orchid).
He just sent me a link for a $200 speaker. (BTW this is basically his money since I'm a SAHM, but still...)
Suggested responses? And he still has yet to buy all the furniture, including new television, he has planned for the extremely expensive downtown apartment.
H was here this weekend and just left for his last trip.
Friday night started awkwardly. We both were trying to make casual conversation but everything seemed super charged. He bought a book last week on the kindle about a guy whose wife had an affair and then his father died. I read the description and decided to read it too. We tried to talk about that, and about a show my H has been binge-watching that he wanted me to follow. I've finished the book (H hasn't yet) and only watched a couple of episodes of the show he wants me to watch. It was weird and strained and we kept asking each other what the subtext of the conversations was, even though there wasn't any.
After we got the kids to bed I told him I was putting the attorney on retainer to draft a separation agreement that would effectively split our finances and the kids now, even though a full divorce wouldn't happen till we both agreed to it, after the one-year waiting period. I did this because I'm a SAHM and though his income is very good it's not going to hold up indefinitely against an expensive new apartment AND our home and I want to make sure that if I end up divorced I haven't spent half our assets supporting his bachelor pad. He said "is this what was recommended?"
!!!
Splitting the finances is a huge turning point for me. Taking care of the finances is the one thing he has done consistently throughout our marriage and my taking that job away (or at least my share of it) represents the last contribution he has made to our marriage. I'm hesitant to do it on an emotional level even while I recognize that logically it's the smart move. So I asked him "Do you really want to break up our family like this?"
This was maybe a relationship talk and most likely I deserve to be reminded that it wasn't appropriate to my efforts. I didn't really expect him to say, "no, I take it all back, let's work things out" but it's such a huge emotional point for me that I guess I just needed the confirmation that I was doing the right thing -- that he isn't here for me anymore and it really is time for me to conduct myself that way. He said "I need to process all this."
I asked him again if breaking up the family really was what he wanted and he said, no, not really, but he didn't know what else to do. I said that if he didn't know what else to do then instead of just destroying this whole life we'd built together that maybe he should go back to the counselor and see if he could work out some other options. He said maybe he would, when he finishes his travels. I don't have a lot of confidence that he will but I can hope. C has a lot of ideas of ways that he can help H and whether or not we end up together my H needs the help. He's very isolated.
Also over the weekend he did and said a couple of things that were kind of hurtful to me, and when I reacted (I tried not to, and I removed myself from the room when I was able, but the fact that I had to remove myself meant he noticed), he apologized that he didn't mean to hit a sore spot and he was just trying to be friendly. I know when I bring this up to my IC he'll chalk it up to the ADD and H not knowing that just because he talks about something in a friendly tone doesn't make it friendly is a function of his brain function and not of a desire to hurt me. Just like my knowing his ADD makes him lacking in empathy doesn't make the lack of empathy any less painful. So there's that to consider too.
In the meantime I've been GALing like crazy which has been a lot of fun. Last night was the birthday party of a friend, there were three couples and me there. The couples are good friends of mine who all know the situation, and I know a lot about their marriages too. There were a couple of trigger moments for me during the night that made me really wonder if I could go back to an R with my H. One was just a word in a joking context that brought back all the ugliness of what I know about the A. It made me sick to my stomach. Another was watching all these couples, who I know have their own issues, some of them quite serious, being so loving towards one another. It wasn't a crazy PDA situation, just looks and laughs at little moments. I had to work really hard to think if my H and I had ever been like that. Yes, we have, a long time ago...
The other thing about seeing these couples together, is that like others on this forum I've been looking around to imagine what my life would be like in some other relationship. It was interesting. I would see a nice-looking man and wonder, "what would my life be like if I were married to him?" It made me think about the ways in which I've changed to accommodate my H and his issues, how withdrawn he can be even in the best of times, and what I'm like away from him. What would I rather be like? Is it possible to be with him and to be myself? Who am I?
So I have detached from him to the extent that I'm willing to separate and allow him to suffer his own consequences. I'm willing to dump his share of his life back on him and wish him luck with sorting it out. But perhaps I haven't detached to the point that I really know what I am like now that I get to choose that for myself, without regard to him. So that's the next phase I'll be working on. I'm glad I won't really see him for the next three weeks.
I did tell him, Friday and last night, that I may not be able to come back from this. He said he understands. I can't tell whether he'd be ok with that. I don't know if he believes it either. I'm starting to. Of course that may be just for today.
It will be interesting to see how he adjusts to living in his own place. Going back and forth between work and "home" with no one to come home to. We've been separated now almost two months and he hasn't yet had to do that because of all his travel. I think it will be a relief to him for a little while and then it will start to get lonely. We'll see.
In the meantime, I'm only lonely for intimacy between him and me (like you, Claire). Otherwise, I've been really blessed in my friends and family.
I forgot to add that I asked him again if he values my friendship and he said he did. Then he asked "Is it an all or nothing thing for you?" meaning, must the friendship go with the marriage?
I said that for our entire life together our family and marriage had been my number one priority and that any friend I had would support my priorities, not trash them, rip my heart out, and stomp on it. I said I was sorry if he hadn't felt like he was a priority to me but that I had been and remained interested in hearing what he needed and that I was willing to do the best I could to make our lives balanced and happy together. That I was willing to wait some period of time for him to figure out what he needed but that I wouldn't wait forever. He said, "I'm aware that I don't have forever. I know who you are." For the record he has, several times in the past, said he felt like I was more patient and loyal than was good for me, both with regards to himself and with regards to other people from my past. So I don't know if that was a dig or said sincerely, like he respects me and my boundaries.
I said again that trust was the most important thing to a friendship for me and that if I couldn't trust him to treat me with consideration (and mentioned how frustrated I was about how he ignored me last weekend at the park), and that I can't be friends with people who hurt me.
Last night he stayed with the kids while I was out and after I got back (this would have been four couples if he hadn't left me) he asked if anyone talks about him. I said of course not, that would be hurtful to me, though they are concerned about my well-being and offered whatever help I needed. I told him they had asked me how I wanted them to treat him and that I'd told them, how they would treat him if none of this were going on. He said he really appreciated that, and that I had been explaining the situation to people without telling everybody about the affair. I told him that my share of the friendship is recognizing that he's going to be in my life (because of the kids) for a very long time and that there was no reason for things to be ugly. He said again that he appreciated it, that he was glad I had such good friends around me, and that I had been having such a great social life the last few weeks.
So, since I'm not allowed to, anybody want to do any mind-reading for me???
So, since I'm not allowed to, anybody want to do any mind-reading for me???
Who's mind are we trying to read?
If it is your husbands I can tell you why that is a waste of time.
Have you ever been inside a hurricane?
Can you look at the outside conditions and predict what is going to happen?
Maybe you are in the eye of the storm and all is calm.
Does that mean it is safe to go outside and take a long trip?
So anything that we mind read right now does not really tell you too much.
He is having an affair, until that ends you are wasting your time.
Stop meeting any of his needs and DETACH.
He is not your friend if he is having an affair.
DB'ing is counter intuitive.
Nothing is the way it seems to be.
Thank you for that, Cadet.
Stop meeting his needs... I'm not really sure which of his needs I'm meeting at the moment. We have practically no relationship except when we are with the kids. Not letting people bad mouth him is more about protecting me & the kids than protecting him (except not outing the affair, and even that is more about protecting my privacy than his).
I do appreciate your thoughts, so if you can see that I'm doing more for him than I realized I absolutely would like to hear.
Thanks.
I forgot to add that I asked him again if he values my friendship and he said he did. Then he asked "Is it an all or nothing thing for you?" meaning, must the friendship go with the marriage?
I said that for our entire life together our family and marriage had been my number one priority and that any friend I had would support my priorities, not trash them, rip my heart out, and stomp on it. I said I was sorry if he hadn't felt like he was a priority to me but that I had been and remained interested in hearing what he needed and that I was willing to do the best I could to make our lives balanced and happy together. That I was willing to wait some period of time for him to figure out what he needed but that I wouldn't wait forever. He said, "I'm aware that I don't have forever. I know who you are." For the record he has, several times in the past, said he felt like I was more patient and loyal than was good for me, both with regards to himself and with regards to other people from my past. So I don't know if that was a dig or said sincerely, like he respects me and my boundaries.
I said again that trust was the most important thing to a friendship for me and that if I couldn't trust him to treat me with consideration (and mentioned how frustrated I was about how he ignored me last weekend at the park), and that I can't be friends with people who hurt me.
Last night he stayed with the kids while I was out and after I got back (this would have been four couples if he hadn't left me) he asked if anyone talks about him. I said of course not, that would be hurtful to me, though they are concerned about my well-being and offered whatever help I needed. I told him they had asked me how I wanted them to treat him and that I'd told them, how they would treat him if none of this were going on. He said he really appreciated that, and that I had been explaining the situation to people without telling everybody about the affair. I told him that my share of the friendship is recognizing that he's going to be in my life (because of the kids) for a very long time and that there was no reason for things to be ugly. He said again that he appreciated it, that he was glad I had such good friends around me, and that I had been having such a great social life the last few weeks.
So, since I'm not allowed to, anybody want to do any mind-reading for me???
You are sharing your thoughts and feelings with him.
Why?
What is that going to accomplish?
He is not your husband right now, only the father of your children.
Speak with actions not words.
OK. Thank you. Point taken.
Today he said he wanted a Bluetooth speaker for his iPhone from *the kids* for birthday/father's day. I told him to send me a link (he gave me a very nice birthday present in April but no Mother's Day gift, unless you count the grocery store orchid).
I'm not up on your situation at all but WOW! he has cajones!
Ask your kids what they'd like to get him or make for him and help that happen, if possible.
Let him purchase his own bluetooth.
When I read the $200 Bluetooth and speakers, I had to chuckle. If your h wants it, he should go buy it himself.
Maybell, having a conversation with your h now is like talking to a jar of jelly. Seriously. I get my reliable responses communicating with my cat or dog than my h at this point. Leave him alone. Focus on you and your kids. Don't ask him anything unless it is child or financially related.
Good for you for taking the initiative to protect yourself financially. I could not agree more with Cadet and Labug. Your h is not your friend. Don't ask him if he values you. Friends don't have to ask questions line that because their actions let you know.
Thanks, Cadet, Labug, Georgiabelle. Didn't notice how far I had strayed. You are all right.
So glad he's out of the country for two weeks and then I take kiddos on vacation. It will be much easier to lay low when he's not around. I really appreciate the feedback.
It's not my life falling apart, it's demolition in preparation for new construction.
Right?
So is this a stupid question?
I'm not sure what to look at in myself to use this time to grow. I feel like I've been working on growing all through my M. I have taken on all sorts of challenges and learning opportunities, pretty much by myself. H works a ton and never wanted to do anything. I would try to explore activities he might be interested in doing together and all he wanted to do was sit home and recover. Dates were dinner and a movie. Always. We lived in a really vibrant cultural area and he never wanted to go listen to music, rarely see a play, hiking was too much trouble, etc. He never got excited about anything. If I took up a new activity or made friends it was always my stuff, never anything I could lure him into.
Now we're separated and I feel liberated in a lot of ways. I can go try activities without having to worry about leaving him behind. The kids want a fish, or a cat, I can say yes and not worry about him grumbling. I can choose to take them to a street festival or a farm and I don't have to worry if he thinks it's a success or not. I've been spending a ton of time with friends and I don't have to worry if they're the ones he thinks are boring. I can go to church and not have to rush away because he doesn't like church. I can be fifteen minutes later than planned leaving for an outing and nobody is going to get irritable because we're late (even though he rarely helped).
I love him and want to rebuild our relationship, but I do NOT want it to include all this pressure I'm accustomed to. I want to hear what he wants to do too and actually do those things -- without the pressure of worrying if it's a "successful" activity or not.
This is the sort of person I want to be and the only difference between the time we were together and now is how free I feel to be the person I want to be. I make friends easily and I work to keep them. I haven't always done as good a job of that with H because I built up a lot of resentment towards him for not wanting to spend time with me, doing his stuff or my stuff or our stuff (he ALWAYS wants it to include an electronic screen).
So this time of going dark with him (reading the thread somebody referenced on CW-wc's thread) is meant for me to build myself up. What should I look for as areas for potential growth? I'm comfortable as I am, my relationships with others are good and/or improving with the changes I've made in the last 2-3 months... what else?? Just carry on?
Thanks.
So is this a stupid question?
I'm not sure what to look at in myself to use this time to grow. I feel like I've been working on growing all through my M. I have taken on all sorts of challenges and learning opportunities, pretty much by myself. H works a ton and never wanted to do anything. I would try to explore activities he might be interested in doing together and all he wanted to do was sit home and recover. Dates were dinner and a movie. Always. We lived in a really vibrant cultural area and he never wanted to go listen to music, rarely see a play, hiking was too much trouble, etc. He never got excited about anything. If I took up a new activity or made friends it was always my stuff, never anything I could lure him into.
Now we're separated and I feel liberated in a lot of ways. I can go try activities without having to worry about leaving him behind. The kids want a fish, or a cat, I can say yes and not worry about him grumbling. I can choose to take them to a street festival or a farm and I don't have to worry if he thinks it's a success or not. I've been spending a ton of time with friends and I don't have to worry if they're the ones he thinks are boring. I can go to church and not have to rush away because he doesn't like church. I can be fifteen minutes later than planned leaving for an outing and nobody is going to get irritable because we're late (even though he rarely helped).
I love him and want to rebuild our relationship, but I do NOT want it to include all this pressure I'm accustomed to. I want to hear what he wants to do too and actually do those things -- without the pressure of worrying if it's a "successful" activity or not.
This is the sort of person I want to be and the only difference between the time we were together and now is how free I feel to be the person I want to be. I make friends easily and I work to keep them. I haven't always done as good a job of that with H because I built up a lot of resentment towards him for not wanting to spend time with me, doing his stuff or my stuff or our stuff (he ALWAYS wants it to include an electronic screen).
So this time of going dark with him (reading the thread somebody referenced on CW-wc's thread) is meant for me to build myself up. What should I look for as areas for potential growth? I'm comfortable as I am, my relationships with others are good and/or improving with the changes I've made in the last 2-3 months... what else?? Just carry on?
Thanks.
I wish I was in that position, if only so my answer would be clearer for what I'm supposed to do. I give my wife tons of time. I give her affection, poetry, paintings, cooking, cleaning, compassion, everything that she wants to be happy. And she is happy.
Only we don't have sex now. We have been married 8 months and now haven't had sex in 8 weeks. I know this sounds selfish, but I wish I had done something terrible like cheating on her or lying or being a slob JUST so I could understand why she stopped wanting to have sex-----we have a great physical connection...just not sex. Everything but sex. It breaks my heart. She had sex with lots of other guys before we met, now just not with me? So I keep reading stories about, well, jerks.
OK, maybe I'm over-generalizing your H as a jerk, but still, he was doing something anyone (including himself) knew was wrong. You fix it, take time, and get back to being wanted, only it sounds like you still want him. So I don't get it.
My wife dated jerks. Hell, she married one a long time ago. I'm not a jerk, but she doesn't want me. I'm not a goody-two-shoes either, but I'm dying, I don't know why getting a wedding ring turned me into a glorified roommate. I'm sorry---I know this probably isn't helping you, but I liked reading your story.
Hey Maybell,
I admit I only skimmed your posts since I'm getting into DBing overload mode, but I can address the ADD thing, both in myself and in my husband.
I have not gotten into that in my own journaling so far, because I don't want it to seem like an excuse or a crutch. But it is a reality and it does impact things.
Feel free to reply on my thread, or on yours if you prefer, or you can send me a private message.
GoatGal, the ADD thing is new information since the MC started, so I'd love to get some input. Somehow private messages are disabled for me?
Grey, I'm sorry, my H is not a jerk. He's a charming guy who is easily overwhelmed and prone to hyperfocus. That's how I can still want him. He comes from a family that tends to not "solve" problems so much as exist through them, with mixed results. He's existing through this problem in our marriage by running away from it and avoiding it at all costs, especially since I'm a bit of a bulldog and known for tackling problems rather aggressively. Definitely not the approach called for here and requiring a 180 to a gentler, more patient attitude.
With regards to the sex, he would absolutely complain that he wanted more -- but we have three young kids so between my feeling lonely and the demands the kids placed on us till within the last two years, it was not going to happen as much as he wanted. I can look at your thread but I don't know if I'll have much to offer.
I may be an over-poster, but when I'm out with friends, etc., I need my conversation to not be about H. But if I try to just keep it in, I explode. So I'll try to back things down here till I can detach a little further from where I'm at, but I hope you all will be patient and understand that I'm here so much to avoid spending too much time on my sitch in real life.
Somehow private messages are disabled for me?
You and everyone else on this forum.
OK then.
Plan B.
Ask me anything and I'll answer.
After all, this is "anonymous" right?
I was diagnosed with ADD over ten years ago and it explained a LOT.
I know my H has it too, takes one to know one.
It's more common that people realize, and NO, we don't "outgrow it".
We learn to COPE.
One of my "issues" is hyperfocus/hyperthought.
Which explains all my rapid-fire responses on here. I can get "stuck".
I am SO appreciative of the fact that not one person said "Quit writing so much! You're giving us a collective headache!"
I have two speeds.
0 and 100
My mind, when it's "on" is at warp speed. That's if I'm interested and connected.
When it's "off". I am somewhere in a vat of Vaseline... everything is dull and slow-motion.
That's a start, anyway.
Only we don't have sex now. We have been married 8 months and now haven't had sex in 8 weeks. I know this sounds selfish, but I wish I had done something terrible like cheating on her or lying or being a slob JUST so I could understand why she stopped wanting to have sex-----we have a great physical connection...just not sex. Everything but sex. It breaks my heart. She had sex with lots of other guys before we met, now just not with me? So I keep reading stories about, well, jerks.
OK, maybe I'm over-generalizing your H as a jerk, but still, he was doing something anyone (including himself) knew was wrong. You fix it, take time, and get back to being wanted, only it sounds like you still want him. So I don't get it.
My wife dated jerks. Hell, she married one a long time ago. I'm not a jerk, but she doesn't want me. I'm not a goody-two-shoes either, but I'm dying, I don't know why getting a wedding ring turned me into a glorified roommate. I'm sorry---I know this probably isn't helping you, but I liked reading your story.
Have you read The 5 Love Languages yet?
Oh. And I decided to take meds. They helped A LOT. My H has decided that's not for him, and has chosen to power through it.
I'm not sure how well that's working for him. For me it was like putting on glasses to read. I CAN read without them, but it's so much harder than it needs to be.
Oh, and I also have mild (very mild) Asperger's.
Shoot. That cat is out of the bag now!
All this I have not mentioned on my own thread because I didn't want people making assumptions and saying "No wonder he left the woman."
My friends and people in my life can't see either diagnosis. That's because I have worked really hard to overcome it and learn what comes to others naturally.
So I come off really "regular" and with "good social skills" NOW, but you should have seen me as a kid.
Again, I don't want to use it as an "excuse" card.
No doubt it has played into my sitch, but in an odd way I think it makes me a better person.
Strong sense of right and wrong, and all that. Probably why I never cheated all those years. Because it's "wrong".
ADHD/ADD/Aspergers are all variations of the autistic spectrum, presented in different ways and to varying degrees. It wasn't a big stretch for me to finally accept the Asperger's diagnosis since it just connected to the ADD anyway...
But if baring my soul will help you, fire away. I'll answer anything.
What a courageous woman! Thanks for sharing your story. very inspiring. Knowing how to manage your mental health is huge and I know cause I have a soft bipolar disorder and am in recovery (meaning so well managed no one can tell....usually lol). Cat's out of the bag too. But I am a vice chairman of a key peer support agency in my province, and I am a facilitator for a mood disorder peer group, helping hundreds of folks rebuild their lives after being wrecked by anxiety, deppression etc....
Unfortunately my mood disorder had nothing to do with the collapse of my marriage (though 65% bipolar marriages end in divorce). It was me being lazy, not taking care of her, taking her for granted. But I am transforming and not giving up without a fight. Stress really triggers my mood disorder so I know racing thoughts and am 0 or mach 1. hate being a high flyer lol. But thanks to db I haveGALed it to learn new fun relaxing techniques as well (try Qigong!). There is alot of overlapp between ADD and bipolar with similar symptoms...being yappy and distracted is one I deal with too plus the added feature of deppression and my emotions amplified. I detached as a wellness strategy for myself long before WAW and am just so sad I now need to use it on my WAW now....
Meds help too and I have cranked them up while dealing with my sitch. Kudos to you for sharing and helping others like me here! Keep fighting Goatgal
SO Rayzzz
Since you seem to know a bit about this subject. I just started taking Wellbutrin. How long should that take to kick in and help me cope with some of this?
Ray and Ben... I'm thinking maybe we should start a new thread?
We don't want to tromp all over Maybell's territory here.
Grr... Whiplash. Communicating about kids this morning makes me feel hostile and ok to be separated. Later today I'll probably miss him. Then I'll wonder if I miss *him* or the fantasy of the relationship I want to have with him. The fantasy that probably won't happen. Then something will happen with the kids and I'll wonder how I could have had children with this guy.
I wish life and feelings were simpler and clearer.
I wish life and feelings were simpler and clearer.
Don't we all - lol..........
You're doing great!!
Stay strong
Reality is that you did have children with him.
And I hope that you love them very much.
Remember that they are 50% of him and 50% of you.
So being angry and hostile to him means that you are half angry at your children.
Just like with children you are angry at his ACTIONS,
you need to detach from those actions and
store your love for him away some where in a safe place.
Food for thought
Thank you Cadet.
I don't know how to do that. I'm trying.
I adore my children. They are wonderful, interesting people. They have challenged me to grow into a better person and to be more generous and compassionate.
Just like my husband.
What's up, Maybell?
Why do you think your H works so much?
Being a great provider is one thing but ignoring your family is another.
What are your goals?
Just wanted to say I really identify with emotional 'whiplash'. I try to remind myself that feelings don't last so don't put too much stock into any one moment, hour or even day.
Thanks for checking in, labug & mdu.
Why does my H work so much? Well... here are some thoughts.
When we first married one of the things I REALLY admired about him was that he was able to put work aside at the end of the day. When he was at work, he was at work, when he was at home, he was at home. He worked hard and he worked weekends/evenings when necessary (he has a white collar job) but ONLY when necessary. My dad had a similar kind of job and growing up we just never knew when he was going to show up, how late he was going to work, etc. Sometimes he worked into the wee hours. So H having a bright line between what was reasonable and what wasn't was very appealing.
When he took this job we knew there would be significantly more travel but the job itself is a great opportunity for really taking his career to a new level. After BD he expressed amazement that he had allowed himself to be so sidetracked by OW. He even said, "I can't believe I did all that. I've been totally distracted at work. I can do better." So there was a little bit of panic involved that he found that he was "that guy." This much was sincere. I don't know what has changed in him since then, but he's still in touch with her (I can't tell how much).
After BD he didn't take any time at all off for US, even though the MC was his idea, the repairing the R was his idea, etc. Since a lot of his schedule was already set at that time I could see that it was difficult for him to get away and didn't object. As time has gone by, though, it's one of the things that really made me into the flaming shrew I became the last 3 months or so before he finally moved out. He has made zero time for us. Then I find out he never really stopped contacting OW at all and I think his working so much is partly an excuse to stay in touch with her. If he took time off to be with his family then he wouldn't have the means to keep in touch with her, since they mostly communicate through work channels.
What are my goals?
1. Reinstate my professional certification
2. Find a job
3. Get the separation agreement/property settlement implemented so I have some security
4. Continue GAL
5. Not gain back the marital crisis weight loss
6. Clear out the house in case I have to be ready to sell
I don't know what my goals re: H should be. I don't know how I feel about him right now. I'm beginning to wonder if he ever really cared about my happiness. He's a very withdrawn, but somewhat demanding guy (MC calls it an ADD bubble) and now that I'm experiencing a certain amount of liberty from worrying about him all the time I'm wondering what I hope for from the R. He called last night and was reasonably friendly, which confuses me. My kids clearly, urgently want him to come home and for our family to be repaired. I don't want to hurt my kids but I also WILL NOT go back to the relationship as it was. I think if I didn't love him I wouldn't have felt confused after our brief chat last night, because it was nice to hear his voice, but I will no longer compromise on only being with someone who really cares about me and appreciates my caring about him.
I welcome suggestions. I am still in IC but a lot of our conversation has been about navigating this time, less about what I want from the future. I described DR/DB to C and he's on board with it but more concerned with helping me adjust healthfully at this time.
Have I been blocked from replying on my own thread?
"Go DANCE!"
Sheesh, Maybell, you sound like my husband.
As for posting, even a "Dancing Queen" needs to rest those barking dogs on occasion and the ADD makes me lose the great thought I THOUGHT I had...
Ergo...
But. Point taken.
But what do I do if I have a crisis?
(I know, post an S.O.S. on Maybell's thread.
. Ha-ha! )
OK, Y'All...
I know you did it cause you love me...
I'll be home Monday night so I should be off restriction then.
Meanwhile, I'll dance one for each and every one of you!
Signing off until I ricochet around the dark side of the moon and can restore radio contact,
---DQ/GG
PS: I clicked "notify" because I didn't know what that meant.
PPS: I can still READ, can't I?
And I didn't really answer the question. Here's one thought:
Seven years ago we left the town where I was REALLY happy to move cross country. About that time I discovered I was pregnant with our third. H hadn't really wanted a third... It was not a planned pregnancy on my part either. Of course he's a joy but one of the first questions H asked after BD was whether I snuck the pregnancy in on purpose. His mom did that to his dad. I didn't.
I was really depressed for a long time after the move. I blamed him a lot. I did not want to be there and I had a terrible time, pregnant, lonely, with a 4yo and 1yo.
He enjoyed the work. Home eventually got better, but then worse again with financial problems. He changed jobs to a company with a lot of partying. Said he didn't like the culture but it also became his primary social outlet. Since the most recent move he hasn't gotten to know a ton of people in our new town and work is still his primary social outlet. Even more now than at the previous company.
Now home is all about the repercussions of the affair and in my view (we realize my view may be suspect) he doesn't have the skills to help repair the relationship. Plus his travel is more glamorous than it has ever been and I've never gone anywhere.
So there you go. Desire, necessity, and avoidance.
Dancing Queen, if you have a crisis come here. I like you.
But when you rest your barking dogs hang out with the rest of the puppies! We'll still be here when you get back.
Don't know what's going on with your thread.
Have I been blocked from replying on my own thread?
No. Threads are locked if posts go over the 100 post limit which means you'll have to start a new thread.
House & money worries have been on my mind lately. I wake up thinking about them and wondering how long we'll be able to stay in this house after the money is separated, worrying about how I'm going to help my kids adapt if we have to move, whether I'd be able to find an affordable place in their small school zone that isn't a fixer-upper, how to sell this house by myself, etc. all that always leads me to reflect on where I am now and how I got in this mess.
I was thinking about how when H was traveling when we were still together, how hard it was to maintain connection with him, how I always wanted him to know he was missed, that his place here was important, that he was loved & needed. When I woke up this morning I felt aggravated that he doesn't seem to care or miss me when he's gone. That all my effort to remind him that we kept his place open for him was never appreciated.
Now On this board I'm seeing lots of talk of co-dependency and how he should be my frosting & not my cake, and I'm wondering if I did somehow turn him into cake when I thought I was working hard on building our life together? But on the other hand, what kind of frosting is he when he travels frequently, mostly plays video games and watches tv when he's home, paying no attention to me, doesn't share what he's thinking or feeling because he says he doesn't know or isn't thinking or feeling anything, and has to be prodded to do anything fun with me or the family?
What is the balance point in a great relationship? How is it different from co-dependence?
Threads lock at 100 posts.
I think we may have married the same man! I always felt so much guilt because my H traveled and I was able to stay home with the kids and not "work". It can create a weird dinamic.
Thanks for answering the questions-I know it called for some mind-reading but it takes a certain amount of understanding and compassion for us and our spouse to get through this intact. By intact I don't necessarily mean R-wise, I mean to get through it as a whole, even better perhaps, person.
There's mind-reading that tries to give a meaning and a crafted response to everything our spouse does and then there's understanding born of many years together. That usually culminates in "OK, I see how we got here, now where to I go from here?"
Often what we see and begin to understand, if we let ourselves, is that some big issues belong to our H. They're things we can't fix. Yes, we have our stuff and we should work on that but all the problems in the M aren't ours. We can take 100% responsibility for our 50% but no more.
Armchair psych 101, worth what you pay-people who do things to excess, be it substances, work, sex, affairs, video games, fixing, hovering, controlling are attempting to fill up some hole in them. Only the owner of that problem can fix the problem. It's so early in your sitch that you don't know what your H will do, let this unfold if you have the patience. He seems to want to work on things but he's lost right now and probably has a lot of guilt. Right now I wouldn't spend too much time wondering if you really want to be in the marriage-that answer will surface in due time.
About the house and the kids and schools, etc, don't borrow trouble. Truly try to take this a day at a time because you don't know what the next hour holds, let alone 3 months down the line. I've had the benefit of a few more years of doing this and I can tell you that most things I worried about (in and out of the M) didn't come true and those that did were handled once I got there. Worrying wouldn't have changed anything.
I'm not saying don't acknowledge that you have some fear around these issues but don't get caught up in the fear. Figure out where the fear comes from and is it rational. I, too. was worried about selling the house. It scared me to think of having to do all that on my own, packing, moving, blah, blah, blah. But when I really focused on what I was feeling, I was angry at H and afraid I'd somehow mess up big time with the sale.
So I let myself be angry for a while, called him lots of names in my head and then knew that wasn't helpful and let that go. Fear about messing up the sale/moving was also baseless, my RE agent is a very good friend, she wouldn't let me do something stupid. As for moving, I've done hard things, including moving, I could do it again.
In simple terms, I quit playing victim.
Your fears may be different, just don't get stuck in the fear. Go further.
DBing is simple, it's not easy but it is simple.
Let him go, let him face his demons if he has that ability. Don't interfere with his process.
Create a life that you want. Move furniture, throw stuff out, eat cereal for dinner without guilt, take a painting class, get a weekly massage, take long walks, fly a kite with the kids, do belly flops in the pool. Let go of the life you thought you had and create a reality-based life.
Will there be sadness? Yes. Will there be giggles and moments of ahhhhhh? Yes. That's life.
You seem like a smart, resourceful woman with a sense of humor. You will be fine, some of this may hurt like he!!, but you'll get to the other side.
Just don't take your baggage with you.
Dig out the Maybell you were before you got married. Get to know her again.
Labug, WOW. Thank you that was exactly what I needed to hear.
Yes, H has said that most of the problems are his, not mine. OW muddies the waters a lot, definitely for me and most likely for him as well. I really, really like your suggestion that I have patience and let things unfold before I feel like I have to make a decision about the M. Just putting that aside for now takes a lot of the pressure off. It's also helpful to think that I don't necessarily have to reinvent myself, I can just fine tune.
The changes I've made that I think would help the R (if we ever have one again) have made me a calmer parent and more comfortable saying no to things like requests for volunteer time that I may not be super excited about. At the same time I've said yes to things that excite me, and drawn some much-needed boundaries with my mom that have helped me feel more whole. So all in all I'm probably in as good a place as a person in my position could be.
The thing that stings a bit about this is that I was definitely not this comfortable with myself before I married my H. He has had a better opinion of me than any person who ever knew me. Because of his ambition (and sometimes because of his deficiencies) I've had to learn to do many, many things I would never have attempted as a single woman, and although the things I've done aren't earth-shattering, they have built me up hugely. So I'm in touch with a much better version of Maybell than the 24 year old version. The uncertainty around house, money, husband, kids aside... I'm oddly happy and at peace. (Perhaps with the caveat of "for today")
Labug, thank you so much for having exactly the words I needed on the right day. I'll be going back to them every time I need them.
About the person you were before, we all have dreams/interests/activities that we let go of a bit when we get married and have children. Those are the things you can get in touch with again, your passions, the things that make Maybell, Maybell.
Have you read This Is Not the Story You Think it Is? It's a good read, I think it's a bit simplistic but it helps to see the mindset in action.
D11 is in a post-sleepover fit. Ugly behavior got her iPad mini (H's purchase pre-separation) taken away, and then the iPod. Then she was told I wouldn't be buying an app she had asked for (she was going to pay for it, I just was going to input the password). She said she would just ask Daddy to do it. I said I'd let him know that her behavior meant she couldn't have it. She said, "So? He never listens to you anyway."
Ouch.
This is a temporary state of things. By bedtime she will be fine. The parenting struggle is one I've had with her since she was 4 (since the time of the move that started all our problems), it's something I've been seeking help for since then and have only in the last two years or so found some solutions for. The trouble is, to a certain extent, she is right. He & I have a fundamental difference in our approach to parenting that has been a source of conflict for many years now. I'm stricter and more consistent; he'd rather just make the kids happy and keep the peace in the house because he's extremely conflict avoidant. Since I'm the primary caregiver by a long way, it has only been a sporadic source of trouble.
I'm trying to tell myself that I'm not going to let an overtired, hormonal eleven year old girl get between me & H... but the fact is, it hurt so much because there's some truth to it, and because I don't like the implication that has for HER future relationships with boys & men. That makes me even angrier with him (on Father's Day! Not that that matters because it's the middle of the night where he is).
I know, I don't have to trouble myself with deciding whether or not to stay married to him at this time. Divorce won't change our co-parenting relationship and will certainly make it more challenging. But the underlying conflict makes me so angry with him. It makes me want to just deny him EVERYTHING. He never even gave our difficulties a proper chance to be resolved. If he can't think of a solution off the top of his head then there is no solution, as far as he's concerned.
(she just came in and spoke nicely to me and gave me a hug and a kiss...)
One day after insisting I was fine and happy and in a good place I'm sitting here crying again. I'm so angry with him. He has never been a help to me in solving parenting problems and in fact sometimes has made them worse. Now my own daughter thinks he's doesn't respect me, and I'm sure that scares her some.
Hi Maybell,
Ouch is right. Adolescent girls can be tough! And I can imagine that it's even harder when you and her dad are not on the same page.
I don't have any great advice...except to remember that you can only control YOU. As someone who has worked with 11 year olds for a long time, I can say that they sometimes have trouble seeing beyond black and white.. but also often respond well to positive attention... letting them feel like they have some control... and definitely modeling (and explicit coaching) on appropriate behavior. In other words, remember what you tried when she was 3? It's kind of the same thing now. (!!)
If I were you, I would probably try to avoid situations where she will be in the middle of a power struggle between you and H. (Taking things away doesn't work that well, anyway, TBH, and it certainly won't work if her father just gives in. In fact, that will be WORSE for both of you.) If you feel like you have to take something away from her, it should be something that you have control over without having to rely on H to back you up. (not easy, I know). That will help her respect you more, I think.
Have you read, "How to talk so kids will listen..and listen so kids will talk"? Sometimes "ugly" behavior is really a call for help. If you become the person who truly listens to her, even when she is acting "ugly", that will help your relationship in the long run. Model for her what effective conflict resolution can look like, especially if she didn't see it in your M. If you don't know yourself, this is something you probably want to discuss in IC or to read about.
Hang in there. And keep at it-- she is at a pretty critical point, right on the edge of adolescence and going through a parents' divorce. YOU can be a really awesome guide and source of strength for her!
Thanks, Claire... If I don't come up with consequences how am I supposed to enforce the rules??? I send her to her room and she just keeps coming out to scream at me and kick stuff. This is what she's been like since she was 2.
Her father wouldn't have given it back right then. He's only going to see her every other week (and not at all in the month of June). If the iPad is forfeit he won't have access to return it to her.
I understood EXACTLY what was up with her -- she was overtired from a sleep over. It wasn't a cry for help or anything else. Believe me, I've read twenty parenting books to understand how to reach her. I've talked to pediatricians. She's taken up session of my IC time. She just has a tremendously difficult temperament. She's super smart and knows how to get people where it hurts. She has already apologized and returned to her sweet self and acknowledged that she was just taking out her tiredness on me. But if I let her just walk all over me all the time it just makes things worse. She seems to think she's being ignored if she acts up and nobody responds to her.
I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope I don't come across as self-righteous, because I'm certainly not an expert... but I have been working (as a teacher) with this age group for over 10 years. And I've struggled with the same thing in my classroom. Lately, I've been using the mantra "If they could, they would" when thinking about kids who have trouble academically AND socially.
I send her to her room and she just keeps coming out to scream at me and kick stuff. This is what she's been like since she was 2.
I understood EXACTLY what was up with her -- she was overtired from a sleep over. It wasn't a cry for help or anything else.
She just has a tremendously difficult temperament. She's super smart and knows how to get people where it hurts. She has already apologized and returned to her sweet self and acknowledged that she was just taking out her tiredness on me. But if I let her just walk all over me all the time it just makes things worse. She seems to think she's being ignored if she acts up and nobody responds to her.
Of course, I don't know you or your D, but it sounds a little bit like she doesn't have great control over her emotions. If she could control herself, she probably would. (She is sweet-natured!) The problem with consequences is that they don't actually teach her how to control her emotions.
She is old enough to discuss this with her. Maybe something like: "I've noticed that when you get upset, you {insert what you observe, without judgement}". Offer validation for her feelings. Tell her you want to help her find some better, healthier ways to calm herself down so that she doesn't hurt herself or anyone else." (Maybe here is where you can add how it hurts your feelings when she screams, or that it feels unsafe when she kicks things?)
Then, teach her some strategies for calming herself down. "The next time you feel that way, you can try... (taking deep breaths, punching a pillow, etc. etc." Then, show her what you mean, practice it (together!) when you are both calm. And don't be surprised if she doesn't change overnight. But the next time she is out of control, you can (calmly) remind her. And, if you try ignoring her (I do that all the time with my pre-schooler!), make sure you tell her why, calmly. "I am going to leave the room and wait out here because I don't like how you are screaming at me... But when you are more calm, we can talk about it."
I hope this helps. (and again, I'm really sorry if this comes across as pretentious or know-it-all-y. This is a topic very close to my heart).
Hang in there.
Claire, thanks for the suggestions. You didn't come across as a know-it-all... it's just that I've been struggling with this for so long and have asked so many people for help and I seem unable to explain the problem very well.
She does extremely well in school. NOBODY outside our family believes that she could be anything other than the sweetest kid in the universe. All her grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins HAVE seen this behavior and their suggestions have been very unhelpful and judgmental. It is tremendously frustrating.
I have to give her credit... throughout most of this crisis she has been sweet, helpful, nurturing, and taken on more responsibility than she ought to (we have discussed this as well -- I've assured her I'm the parent, she can just be a kid, I will still take care of her and her brothers, etc.) So she was kind of due a temper tantrum. Nobody can keep it together like that. But with me she seems to feel free to turn into a raging beast when she needs to. It would be easier to take if she didn't know EXACTLY how to hit me where there is no armor.
It might be worth mentioning that this has been an issue for H as well. His sister and his mom NEVER argued -- never. Both have confirmed that with me. So he seems to think that D11 and I are "oil and water" which is not remotely true. She & I are pretty close most of the time.
(BTW, she came to me before bed this evening and asked... "If I had done X, would I not have lost my iPad?" I confirmed that was the case, and she said, "OK. I guess I should have." -- so I guess working on self-control is now on her radar.)
Anyway... this is a marriage forum, not a parenting forum, so thanks for responding with helpful points. You didn't sound pretentious at all. I don't want you to think I resented your input -- I welcome advice. I'm probably the tough nut in this case, since I've been working on the problem with her for so long and I've felt so unsupported. My boys are so easy compared (and the middle guy is ADD)...
You're right-- this isn't a parenting forum, so I could see how it might seem "off-topic" or out of bounds to discuss parenting. And at the same time, I can't help thinking that our relationships with our kids (and our spouse's relationships with our kids) play a significant role in some of our marriages... so working on our relationships with our kids--and our parenting strategies--could, in a way, support our DBing!
My D3 can be fairly strong-willed, too. She generally behaves really well for teachers, her babysitter, her grandma... but lets it loose when I'm around. My friends have all told me that it's because she feels so safe around me. So, that's another way to look at it! Your D knows that you love her unconditionally, no matter how awful she behaves. And that's a good thing.
I keep telling myself she'll make an AWESOME adult... and then I panic, and hope I don't ruin that awesomeness.
Thanks for discussing this with me. I'm not trying to cut things short -- it just hit such a nerve today...
You're right, it's not a parenting forum but parenting issues go along with marriage and marital difficulties.
We don't parent with a different brain than we use in our marriage, it's the same brain, loaded with the same stories.
I didn't try to control just my husband, I wanted to control my H, my kids, my coworkers, friends, various people I would come in contact with...I had so much fear of losing control.
Are there similarities in the stories your mind is telling you about your D and those it tells you about H?
Another great question... I'll watch myself with the kids today with that thought in mind and get back to you this afternoon.
Thanks, labug and Claire.
OK, here's what I've come up with:
I was raised very, very strictly by a very unconfident mother (22 when I was born) and a workaholic father who I don't recall being around a whole lot. My mom has very strong ideas of "should" -- romantic ones, the sort you'd see on TV or in books about the "right" way of doing basically everything. I was a fairly normal kid but there were boundaries we just did not cross: touching anything at the store, for example, going into the living room (as opposed to the family room, which was where we were supposed to be), not going into my parents' room ever, etc. Some of this I think was normal for the seventies and some was not so much. In addition, my family moved every 2-3 years till I was 13, so there was a certain kind of instability built into my early life. So yeah, I've got some control issues, among other things, and confidence was a big problem for me till the last, say, 5-6 years. Now it's just a medium-sized problem.
H, on the other hand, lived in the same small town his entire life, where his great-grandparents (and perhaps even further back) settled, always well-off, family relaxed, maybe a little entitled, and nothing was a big deal.
So my attitude with the kids is a little controlling, a little relaxed, sometimes kind of snappy (I react sometimes like my mother, who I remember as being overwhelmed with four kids and a fairly inconsiderate husband, always feeling put-upon and never quite adequate, terrified of saying no to anybody from fear of rejection). Sometimes I can be really fun and goofy. But I want things to happen when I ask for them. Lately also I've been preoccupied with M worries, of course (trying to correct that, but the thoughts sneak up on me, you know?) and in the past I've been preoccupied with impending moves every couple of years, and the uncertainty of all our moves makes me sometimes a little nutso.
With my H too, I have been sometimes controlling, often snappy, slow to notice when he's being helpful (he doesn't know my love language, for sure, and I'm not sure of his). My kids can laugh at me and it's kind and makes us all happy, but I'm reluctant to show my husband my goofiness because I feel like he thinks I'm stupid because he prefers a drier, more cutting form of humor. Like that's more intellectual. So I already close that part of me off from him, while I'm more willing to show my kids all of me. Was it like that when we were dating? I don't remember. As I say, his family is rather entitled and at the moment I feel like that's my main sense of him. But I no longer really trust my memories.
When I have problems with my daughter (didn't today, thankfully), I think the underlying value that is being insulted by her behavior is that people who love and respect you don't treat you with such utter disregard for your feelings. That's not a reasonable expectation of a child, but it is very reasonable to expect it of my spouse. One of the things we addressed in MC was my loneliness in the M and how I reacted to the feeling I had that if he really cared about me he'd want to spend time with me and enjoy my company. The fact that that was not at all how H experienced our M was a gap that we didn't get to address because I discovered he was contacting OW all through our MC and we ended the MC.
Because we have moved so many times since we've been married, as well as through my childhood, I have always been fairly detached from my friends and able to accept them for who they are, so the need to control them or demand that kind of reciprocity from them is a lot less. People are how you find them, in my experience, and if you don't like what you find you limit your interactions to a level you can live with and find people you like better. I'm pretty accepting of most people, especially in the last year since BD, which has been so humbling. So I kind of live two selves -- the home self who can be really cagy, and the public self, who can give more freely because I have less investment in those relationships.
This is why DETACH is such a mantra around here, I guess.
So what does all this mean?
I guess it means I should take more of my attitudes towards the people who AREN'T in my family and apply them to H, kids, and extended family.
That I should acknowledge and act on the fact that I'm a lot happier when I try to control less.
That if I can't be myself as freely with my H as I am with my kids that something about that relationship must change.
What else?
Thanks for these great insightful questions...
Just a note to say that your self-reflection and insight are really really impressive. You have the whole rest of your life to craft a new version of yourself--keeping the best parts, modifying the parts that weren't bringing you the happiness and peace you deserve...
I am in a similar boat (and at a similar age), and I keep telling myself that if this (ending my M) is the price I had to pay to finally get to live the happy, healthy life I deserve... maybe it was worth it? Because that is pretty huge.
Thanks for sharing your story.
Hey, Maybell, just wanted to drop by. I can relate to some of you sitch. We've had a ridiculous number of moves over the past decade. It's been stressful for everyone. I tend to come off a little controlling, too. Part of it is being a stay-at-home mom - "I don't tell you how to set up your firewalls at work; don't tell me how to fold dishcloths. I'm not doing it wrong. It's my kitchen - I cook in it, I clean it, I wash the linens. You're dong it wrong." I've noticed that anything that gets my nit-picky, perfectionist, I-am-the-queen-of-my-domain tendencies up really, really butts heads with my S14's and H's ADD. I have a super, duper goofy side that my H says he loves but I've felt crazy insecure about showing it since the separation... and now that I have a toddler... half the time I'm too tired. My H's sense of humor is... mean. Sarcastic, jaded, very cynical. It's gotten worse over the years. I don't really like it so I don't really engage with him much anymore on the humor front. But I do let him see me being silly with the kids sometimes and he always thinks it's adorable.
With moves, we've moved so much and always had this pending out of state move... I hadn't really bothered trying to make friends which was a mistake. So I envy your detached friendships. I tend to over invest in all of my relationships and so I'm hesitant to even bother if I won't be around for a while.
So much moving has also meant I've had plenty of opportunity to accuse my H of not helping - packing, apartment hunting, unpacking... on top of the general every day chores.
Trying to control stuff always comes at a cost. Over the years, I've fluctuated being trying to hold the reins on things and giving up totally since my H and I are both pretty rebellious, independent people who like to have things our own way. We've said for ages now that we should have bought a duplex when we got married or a house with a little apartment over the garage we could take turns retreating to when we'd each had enough. Mostly, we end up in that situation because we've had so many communication difficulties and a difference of love languages that we've felt like we couldn't be ourselves... despite the fact that we both like who the other person genuinely is... we can't stand who the other becomes when they feel defensive, hurt, or anxious.
Anyway, I'll try to catch up on your sitch a little more. Hope things are on a better path with your daughter.
Maybell, great self-reflection and insight in your previous post.
Keep up the great work - it will pay off!!
Stay strong!
Thanks, everybody.
Claire, yes, if the cost of this insight and improved self is the M, I think it will have been worth it. I have three young kids with this guy -- it's not as though he will be out of my life in the next few years. I would love to see him experience some growth too, and if we can't do that together then it's better to be apart. Time is on our side, for sure.