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I'm new and just now reading Divorce Busters. What is the standard Michelle-W-D stance on exposing an A to the OM's (or OW's) spouse? Is that a no, no here? I can definitely see that blanket exposure to everybody (family, friends, work) can create problems. However, an A clearly needs secrecy to survive in most cases. I can't help but think that exposing the A to the spouse will help end it. I realize that every sitch is different but please school me on the DB general strategy in this specific area.
Skip ahead to the infidelity part of the book.
Originally Posted By: labug
Skip ahead to the infidelity part of the book.


I did go to the Index under 'Affair' and read all those parts of the book. I'm still not clear on my questions above.
Personally I believe his W should know. But you have to be sure it's not out of a place of anger or revenge for you. And to be honest, there is always going to be a little bit of anger and revenge. After you do that, however, you will have to deal with the circumstances that come along with it.
Yes, like the fact that no matter what OM says or does he will be right and no matter what you say or do you will be wrong. I say don't expose, it never works out well. And do you really think she doesn't know? Cheaters are never as smart as they think they are.

Exposing my now X's affair brought me nothing but grief. The OW in my situation still blames me for her divorce! And OW's retaliations have been very hurtful to me. You have no idea how much crazy you might be messing with.

Right now you are hurting and wanting to save your marriage. Tread carefully and keep reading threads. The answers are all here!
My brother thinks I should expose the A to the OM's W but I think his reasons may be suspect. I have no interest in revenge at this point. I think exposure could provide leverage to help end the A but it is a bit like launching a grenade and hoping nobody gets hurt. The strategy is risky but I feel like I'm at the end of my rope and ready to try strong measures.
Originally Posted By: WenikiTiki
...Exposing my now X's affair brought me nothing but grief. The OW in my situation still blames me for her divorce! And OW's retaliations have been very hurtful to me. You have no idea how much crazy you might be messing with...


Often, people want to kill the messenger...It's misplaced blame. Completely illogical but you can't fix crazy.
Jrock, you seem like you are not really on the fence about this...its seems like you really think exposing is the way to go.

I did read your statement about the blanket exposure, but you seem to have clearly differentiated telling his wife vs. yours and hers family and friends.

So I will ask you this: What's your hesitation? There must be something in the back of your mind that prompted you to ask everyone-what's your concern deep down?
Originally Posted By: Grocerykartman
Jrock, you seem like you are not really on the fence about this...its seems like you really think exposing is the way to go.

I did read your statement about the blanket exposure, but you seem to have clearly differentiated telling his wife vs. yours and hers family and friends.

So I will ask you this: What's your hesitation? There must be something in the back of your mind that prompted you to ask everyone-what's your concern deep down?


I've been wrestling with this for more than a month. I think exposing the A to the OM's W could help to end it, but beyond that, I can't control how everyone will react. Obviously, there are possible risks.

I think this will bring sadness to the OM's W. That bothers me. The OM's W could retaliate against my W. The OM might retaliate against me. My W will be angry and she'll probably pull away in the short term. My W might retaliate against me for informing the OM's W.

I've actually already told my W that I had been thinking about telling the OM's W, not out of revenge but to apply leverage. I've told the OM that I've considered telling his W. I know that's like telegraphing my battle plan to the enemy. I thought it might help motivate them to stop the A but they simply became a bit more discreet.
I have to ask... Why in the world did you say that to your wife and the OM?

Never... Never... and I mean NEVER... make a threat you are not prepared to back up. The same goes for ultimatums. If you don't follow up you will lose your credibility.

This just seems like a poor course of action to me.
Originally Posted By: MrCAS
I have to ask... Why in the world did you say that to your wife and the OM?

Never... Never... and I mean NEVER... make a threat you are not prepared to back up. The same goes for ultimatums. If you don't follow up you will lose your credibility.

This just seems like a poor course of action to me.


The day after my W confessed to her EA, I sent a text to the OM warning him to stay away from my W or I would tell his W about the A. I meant it.

Weeks later, I got proof that the EA was ongoing. I found the OM's W's work phone # online. I called and asked for her, fully intending to expose the A to her at that moment. But, she no longer works there. Keep in mind, my motivations were purely anger and revenge at that moment.

Within days, I confronted my W and confirmed with her that I knew the EA was still ongoing. She said she wanted a D. I agreed to a D. She asked me if I had tried to call the OM's W and I told her, yes and that I still intended to tell his W. My W told me that she would never forgive me if I told the OM's W. I slept on it, awoke the next day in D mode and thought, what's the point in having an angry wife going through the D process, so decided not to expose the A at that point.

Within the next few weeks, my W let me know she didn't want a D. I realized I didn't want a D either. I thought we were reconciling and then I discovered the EA was still ongoing.

I talked to my W Fri morning to see if she would come clean regarding the A. She lied. Then, I let her know that I knew she was lying. I told her that I was considering telling the OM's W, no longer out of anger or revenge, but to put pressure on the OM to end the A. And that brings us up to date on my sitch.

I'm new to DB. I just got the book. So far, there don't seem to be much in the way of strategies on how to deal with an ongoing A. But, I realize that I've been pretty much doing everything opposite of the DB method up to this point. Lol!

Oh well. Can't go back now. Time to move forward. At least I'm not all weepy and sad anymore. I have detached a lot from the emotional roller coaster I was riding.

You are correct though, none of the 3 of us in this triangle have much credibility up to this point. So far, we have all been full of BS.

I've now got the OM's physical address. I can go out and expose the A to his W tomorrow at her home while her H is working. Should I do it? I could also send her a Fed Ex Letter. Under these circumstances, is this type of exposure a good strategy at this point?
I wouldn't. You don't want to be the bad guy if you want to reconcile with your wife. Revealing the affair to the OM's wife will make your wife angry and upset with you.
If you're going to do it, do it face to face. Not the coward's way. Tell his W for HER benefit. Not yours. She should be protected if in case your W gives the OM something.
I read some older threads here and perhaps Divorce Remedy has better info on dealing with an ongoing A.
Bottom line is that you threatened the OM twice with this. I think because you already did this, you have to follow through or else they are going to think you aren't going to ever do it.
Originally Posted By: MrBond
Bottom line is that you threatened the OM twice with this. I think because you already did this, you have to follow through or else they are going to think you aren't going to ever do it.


I agree. It's time to bite the bullet.

I would have been out there today talking to his W but I had to stay at home with my son who has a cold. I plan to go out there in person tomorrow. I wish the house wasn't so far away. If she's not there I guess I'll have to go to the backup plan of sending a Fed Ex letter.
And so what is your plan of action after you do so to deal with the fall out?
Things to consider:

Is there such a rush as to resort to FedEx rather than in person?

FedEx means paper - which means copies that will go to everyone involved, their lawyers, etc., etc. forever. It can also mean libel in the case of unsubstantiated claims.

In person means you talk, you get reaction, you may learn something from other person, there's no paper trail...
And you really want to think this exposure thing through...

In my case, as I was tormenting myself as to whether or not to expose A, my W suddenly ended A because she felt is was not in her best interest. Just like that. She couldn't live with it anymore. [10 days and counting...]

I am much happier that she ended it, rather than it having ended by me, OM or OM's W, because right now, she can't blame me for controlling her life, and OM and his family can quietly fade away. We have enough trouble without OM's W dumping all over us.

By exposing, you are guaranteed to shake things up. But realize that you're adding more emotional people to the mix that you have absolutely no control over.
Originally Posted By: MrBond
And so what is your plan of action after you do so to deal with the fall out?


I could use some help formulating a fallout plan.

Originally Posted By: zew
Things to consider:

Is there such a rush as to resort to FedEx rather than in person?

FedEx means paper - which means copies that will go to everyone involved, their lawyers, etc., etc. forever. It can also mean libel in the case of unsubstantiated claims.

In person means you talk, you get reaction, you may learn something from other person, there's no paper trail...


That is true. Great info!

I should try to contact her in person multiple times. Anyway, I need to be in person to show her proof.

If I do feel a need to contact her via Fed Ex because multiple attempts at a face-to-face meeting failed, I'll be sure not to spell anything specific out in the letter. I'll keep it vague thanks to your excellent info.

Example: "Hi, S____ this is K____, D____'s husband. I have something important to tell you regarding your H and my W. Please call me ASAP (000)-000-0000." I
OK....I'll play Devil's Advocate!

These are my own experiences and results; YMMV! Just sharing!

I not only exposed both my wife's EA's, I also confronted the OM's; one of them directly in person! Here is why:

Exposing:
1) I consider it DISRESPECT and I refuse to let her disrespect me!
2) She still lives at home; I still pay her bills and provide a blanket of financial protection. This is where the disrespect comes in.
3) You live in my house, being provided for by me, getting your bills paid, you will play by my rules or move out / divorce me!
4) I don't do this to be a d*ck; these are boundaries, the only boundary I have really set. Otherwise, she is free to lead her life and come and go as an adult should! Beyond this, I have owned my part of the marriage, saw an IC, GAl'd and continue to make my improvements.

Confronting:
1) Again; I won't let anyone (including OM) disrespect me!
2) Most OM's don't expect this; you are now a reality in their fantasy that they have to deal with!
3) If you are confident, Show no fear, cordial and show evidence, they tuck tail and run (both mine did as far as I can tell). They don't want your evidence getting in the "wrong" hands (alleviates telling the OMW if you are unsure you want to do this). Most DO NOT want a confrontation and get really nervous when you know things about them, their personal life and their family!

***If my wife wasn't still at home and I was not supporting her in any way, then I would care less and probably have moved on!

***If you are going to confront, better know d@mn well what you are getting into, know your adversary and get some background info.

***I DO NOT recommend any public exposure; definitely bust the cr@p out of your WAS, maybe set and boundary and make it a consequence of telling OMW if she doesn't comply! My opinion!


My results:

- As far as I can tell, both OM's are out of the picture.
- I did my investigative work; when I exposed a lot of my knowledge (especially when it comes to their family / home life, place of work, home address, routine, etc...) I think they realize just how easy it is for you to reach out and "touch" them even if they are 2000 miles away! And, no, I never threatened them or anything; just knowledge of their life and activities! I think this scared OM#2 a lot!
- Due to consequences of 2nd EA, wife has "lost" all privileges to privacy. I didn't force her, I gave her a choice: full transparency whenever asked or move out! She hasn't moved yet!
- It appears that since I made a stand (especially on the second incident and dropped an ultimatum) things are a lot better on the home front. She has turned a lot of her attention back my way and a lot of positive things that I won't go into here.


Bottom line; do what you feel is right for you. Some will come on here and disagree with me! They are welcome to do that! To each there own!

Originally Posted By: Jrock

I'm new to DB. I just got the book. So far, there don't seem to be much in the way of strategies on how to deal with an ongoing A. But, I realize that I've been pretty much doing everything opposite of the DB method up to this point. Lol!


It happens! DB/DR are really good books and I have re-read a lot of it, but, that being said, I don't think it covers 100% of every sitch. You know your own sitch & spouse and you have to tailor it in some areas! Just my $0.02!


Originally Posted By: Jrock

I've now got the OM's physical address. I can go out and expose the A to his W tomorrow at her home while her H is working. Should I do it? I could also send her a Fed Ex Letter. Under these circumstances, is this type of exposure a good strategy at this point?


If you are going to do this, DO NOT go to the OM's home! Do it on neutral ground! try to contact her by some other means and set a meeting! Again, my $0.02!


Azagtoth
I read your other thread, and what stood out to me was how you thought telling OM's W would probably end the A. Why would you think she has any more influence with her S than you have with yours? You thought her applying pressure to her H would end the A with your W. Maybe his W already knows about the A and is making threats like you have. Threats are non-effective when dealing with a WAS in an A.

This is not you doing work to save the M. This is you wanting somebody else to do the work.

How are you coming on the book?
I am in the camp of not exposing. But I do agree with others that you really painted yourself into a corner.

I was think about how each circumstance plays out:

1. You keep the secret, affair:
a. fizzles out on its own
b. lingers on

2. You tell the other spouse, affair:
a. fizzles out on its own
b. lingers on, with more deception & hiding

I see no advantage to outing the A, Ultimatums/pressure rarely seem to help anything.

Side note: document the details of the A in a very secret place. Could be require if D ever comes into play.
Originally Posted By: MrBond
And so what is your plan of action after you do so to deal with the fall out?


The main fallout I'm expecting is from my W. She's going to be angry. She will likely say a lot of terrible things including making threats of D. I plan to tell her, "I'm trying to save our marriage. I'm trying to save our family. I think we can recover from all of this but the A has to end first."
And when she says no she doesn't want to be married to you any longer?
Originally Posted By: MrBond
And when she says no she doesn't want to be married to you any longer?


I'll say, 'I think we can work it out but, obviously, I can't force u to stay M to me. Let's get the house ready to sell, break the news carefully to our son, friends, family and iron out the details for D.'
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I read your other thread, and what stood out to me was how you thought telling OM's W would probably end the A. Why would you think she has any more influence with her S than you have with yours? You thought her applying pressure to her H would end the A with your W. Maybe his W already knows about the A and is making threats like you have. Threats are non-effective when dealing with a WAS in an A.

This is not you doing work to save the M. This is you wanting somebody else to do the work.


Great points. Exposure very well may not end the A. In fact, they will have lots of opportunities to continue the A because of their work situation.

However, I think I need to stand my ground with telling the OM's W because I already warned them. I think it's the only way my W will understand I mean business. She has told me other people she does not want know. I may have to expose the A to them as well.

I've read that exposure can work because it ruins the fantasy of the EA. Once some reality and truth creeps into the situation, it can serve to help shatter the fantasy.
Originally Posted By: Jrock
I'll say, 'I think we can work it out but, obviously, I can't force u to stay M to me. Let's get the house ready to sell, break the news carefully to our son, friends, family and iron out the details for D.'


Are you really and truly prepared to follow through with this?

Personally, I think you could go to your W and say, "Hey, look... I lost my mind for a period. I am not about to blow apart someone else's family over this. It is bad enough that our family is being affected by this.

However, I can't let this keep going on. My boundaries are XXXXX, XXXX, and XXXX. If this is unacceptable to then we need to decide what course of action we are going to take."


If your state has no fault divorce then it is not going to matter diddly squat what evidence you have regarding anything. I think that you can have a graceful exit out of your corner with a little eating the proverbial sh*t sandwich. The great part about making your own sandwich is that you get to choose the bread...
Let me tell you something here...

One night I got a phone call telling me that my W and XXX XXXX were having an affair. She told me the details of what she saw. I confronted my wife about it.

End result was the A did not stop. It created an atmosphere in the home that was unbearable. She was angry. She tried to turn it around on me. The eruption was not a pretty sight.

I wish I had handled it differently but I can't unring that bell.

You have kids involved... I did not.

The fallout is going to involve everyone.
Originally Posted By: MrCAS
Originally Posted By: Jrock
I'll say, 'I think we can work it out but, obviously, I can't force u to stay M to me. Let's get the house ready to sell, break the news carefully to our son, friends, family and iron out the details for D.'


Are you really and truly prepared to follow through with this?

Personally, I think you could go to your W and say, "Hey, look... I lost my mind for a period. I am not about to blow apart someone else's family over this. It is bad enough that our family is being affected by this.

However, I can't let this keep going on. My boundaries are XXXXX, XXXX, and XXXX. If this is unacceptable to then we need to decide what course of action we are going to take."


If your state has no fault divorce then it is not going to matter diddly squat what evidence you have regarding anything. I think that you can have a graceful exit out of your corner with a little eating the proverbial sh*t sandwich. The great part about making your own sandwich is that you get to choose the bread...


My state is no fault. The A won't affect the outcome of a D at all.

I am prepared to follow through with a D. It's not what my W or I want right now but we have some big problems. I can't put up with this disrespect much longer.

You have some great points. I could certainly use your type of spin and back out of the exposure. I can tell her that I was angry before but I've moved past it which is true. I can tell my W I came very close to exposing the A to the OM's W but I just knew it would mean her world would come apart. All of it is true.
I want to thank everyone for sharing their opinions here. It gave me a lot to think about.

I had a long talk with my W. She claims she wants to end the A but she also wants to end the M. So, it looks like I'm facing a WAW situation.

I'll keep reading the books and asking for advice along the way. Should be an interesting journey regardless of the outcome.
Originally Posted By: Jrock
You have some great points. I could certainly use your type of spin and back out of the exposure. I can tell her that I was angry before but I've moved past it which is true. I can tell my W I came very close to exposing the A to the OM's W but I just knew it would mean her world would come apart. All of it is true.


There is NO spin. It is you being a man and admitting to your wife you messed up because you let your emotions control your rational thinking.

If you try to but a spin on it she will likely see through it and it could very well blow up in your face. You messed up... own it.

It isn't just her world that will be shaken but a whole other family. It will cause needless pain and heartache.

I have a mantra that I have used during my entire D process. It is Class, Honor, and Dignity or CHD for short. Every word that comes out of your mouth... every action that you take... every thought you have should follow this.

I believe your W will be more impressed with you being honest than putting a spin on it to make yourself look good.
MCAS, 'spin' was a poor choice of a word. I should have used 'persective' or 'poiny of view.' I like your way of thinking.
It took a lot of work to get to my line of thinking. I am giving it to you to help your journey... a shortcut so to say. I want you to learn a lesson from my pain so you can avoid your own.
Originally Posted By: MrCAS
It took a lot of work to get to my line of thinking. I am giving it to you to help your journey... a shortcut so to say. I want you to learn a lesson from my pain so you can avoid your own.


It's exactly the kind of guidance and advice I need but did not expect to find. I'll definitely do my best to take it to heart and apply it to my own situation.

One of the things I really like about Michelle's approach is that it's really a self improvement method. Improving oneself is a benefit whether the divorce gets busted or not.
Michele's perspective

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