My old thread got locked, I will try to copy a link:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2425538#Post2425538I'm leaning towards just letting him stay, I clearly need to set some boundries before the D is final.
Mama,
Why don't you just tell him as it is?
"H, I really don't want to do that. I'm afraid if I do, I will be confused and find hope that we can be together, and I just am not willing to put myself in that position right now."
Just maybe he'll consider YOUR perspective rather than push for what he wants. Typically, the last thing a WAS wants is for you to feel hope...
Good luck,
Betsey
Thank you Betsey. You know, I never even thought about saying it that way. I don't know why, it is the truth and I think you are right that he will back down in fear of my hope. I will email him and see what he says.
I also realize that I'm way too worried that by saying no he will think I'm vindictive and a bitch. Part of me really cares about what he thinks of me, and the other part is starting to not give a damn.
Well, he backed down. Thank you Betsey. He proposed a different plan where I drive the kids down to him on Friday. He did make it clear that while we own the house, he is expecting to stay here while he is in town. .
My standing firm seems to make my H worry that I won't be civil and friendly towards him. I will always be civil. I just don't want my H to stay in the house anymore, especially since I found the jewelry store charge. Actually, I really didn't want him here before I found the charge. Not this new H who I don't know anymore. I feel like I need to find my cojones.
Nevermind, I woke up this morning and he was on the couch. I got the kids up, fed, and ready to go and he took them to school. No interaction between us. The kids made sure to point out the clean garage and new patio arrangement.
Actually, I really didn't want him here before I found the charge.
I personally think it's really unfair of him, given that he's moved out. I think the kids are more confused by it than the spouse is. Owning the house with you is as much a "technicality" as being married is at this point. Yet he didn't really care to keep that in mind, did he?
Good luck, and have a good weekend.
Betsey
Yes, I agree Betsy. I have now found my cojones.
Last night as I was going over spelling words with D7 just before putting my two youngest to bed, D10 was going trough an old computer bag that H had. She pulled out a plastic bag with lots of cards from another W to my H. Also two books, one love book and one of images not to masturbate to (that was the name of book). I was able to grab them,, but the girls saw them.
D17 took the bag and as I was trying to get littles to bed she looked through the bag. There were also reciepts for wemons underwear as well as a tiffiny braclet and charm, the same exact one he bought for me. By the time I got downstairs, D17 figured out it was a woman from H's work, she lives in Denver where H has moved.
I have. no idea how to handle the fallout. My kids are devestated and it happened so quickly. I have been really trying to protect them. I will tell my lawyer, but not to sure it will make much difference in the D.
Thizs has been going on for well over a year. I have asked H repetitively if there was OW and he always denied while looking me dead in the eyes. 9n fact he got mad the last time I asked because he had already answered the question.
I need advice please. What do I do now? How do I tell H I know, that his children are the ones who found out. I am so disgusted by him now, but don't want to make it harder for the kids. How do I proceed. Do I tell his family the truth, do I call her and confront (probably would never do that) I'm done with being nice and friendly.
(((MamaB)))
How horrible. I'm sorry your Ds and you had/have to go through this! The only comment I have is not to confront the OW. It won't change anything and you may feel foolish afterwards.
I have no idea what the correct thing to do is, but I would do this: decide what your boundaries will be NOW: I would think they need to be adjusted at this point. And I would tell H exactly what you found, your new boundaries and why. Then stick to them no matter what. Keep emotions out of it, just very matter-of-fact and that should include objective descriptions of how your Ds found the evidence. I think the fact THEY now know the horrible lies he's been telling will impact him more than the fact you know the truth at this point.
Hang in there.
^^^ I think it's important you don't sound angry when you talk to him, or he will dismiss what you say as you "acting crazy" or something.
Thank you Artsy, I need to calm down before I c0nfront him. He is lucky he left yesterday and is in a different city. I agree about the D's finding out, that will mean more to him then my knowing.
^^^ I think it's important you don't sound angry when you talk to him, or he will dismiss what you say as you "acting crazy" or something.
Thank you Artsy, I need to calm down before I c0nfront him. He is lucky he left yesterday and is in a different city. I agree about the D's finding out, that will mean more to him then my knowing.
Agree stay calm. My .02 worth is that you stay clinical about it (that it doesn't "bother" you).
Your only concern is that some inappropriate items with placed where the kids were able to find them. That you would appreciate it if things of that nature were left in a secure place (his place, his car, etc.).
Essentially, don't make it about you or your R.
That is good adviice, but I'm far too mad to that calm. My little kids did n0t even know about the D, his choice. Now they know another woman sent Daddy cards. My oldest daughter is devestated. It was bad enough that he did it to me, but my kids are so hurt now by his carelessness.
I'm meeting with my lawyer tomorrow and will bring the reciepts and cards, we were going to meet anyway. I'm not saying a word to anyone else, other than my IC, until after the meeting. My oldest also went through his facebook messages and he messaged an old gf telling her that for the last 10 of 16 years were terrible, news to me. He is now talking with her too. I wonder if his other gf knows. My D17 did this on her and told me. She also figured out the name of first gf, she works with him. I'm gettiing her into IC this week. What a mess.
That is good adviice, but I'm far too mad to that calm.
Sorry, but you have to be that calm.... If you can't, then don't have the conversation.
My oldest also went through his facebook messages and he messaged an old gf telling her that for the last 10 of 16 years were terrible, news to me.
That's part of the script, happened in my situation too. Funny she never mentioned to anyone (including her friends and family) that there any issue. However, that is the narrative they want to create. Unfortunately, there is no way to alter his perception.
He is now talking with her too. I wonder if his other gf knows.
Doesn't matter, that is for them to sort out.
My D17 did this on her and told me. She also figured out the name of first gf, she works with him.
This is a tougher spot, as kids (yep even at 17) are not stupid, I would try not to throw gas on D17's fire, in fact I would try to extinguish as much as you can. I am not advocating telling D17 your cool with it (and giving H a pass), but she already knows it is hurt/hurting you. Let her come to you with any info, but I would not follow up with questions or searching for other info.
BTW, good move on facilitating IC for her.
That is good adviice, but I'm far too mad to that calm.
Sorry, but you have to be that calm.... If you can't, then don't have the conversation.
My IC told me the same thing today. She gave me some good ideas on how to do it. She said have a full on temper tantrum before the call, get some anger energy out. She wants me to write down my points so that I don't get off topic with what I need to say. She said to use I statements not you statements. I really don't think I would tell him I know at all, but he needs to know that the kids know about the divorce. We were going to tell them together when he was ready. I do feel that he he held the power in this whole divorce, I just gave it to him out of fear. My oldest also went through his facebook messages and he messaged an old gf telling her that for the last 10 of 16 years were terrible, new to me.
That's part of the script, happened in my situation too. Funny she never mentioned to anyone (including her friends and family) that there any issue. However, that is the narrative they want to create. Unfortunately, there is no way to alter his perception.
The script is frustrating, I feel like I'm crazy and just imagened our life together.
He is now talking with her too. I wonder if his other gf knows.
Doesn't matter, that is for them to sort out.
My IC said this same thing too.
My D17 did this on her and told me. She also figured out the name of first gf, she works with him.
This is a tougher spot, as kids (yep even at 17) are not stupid, I would try not to throw gas on D17's fire, in fact I would try to extinguish as much as you can. I am not advocating telling D17 your cool with it (and giving H a pass), but she already knows it is hurt/hurting you. Let her come to you with any info, but I would not follow up with questions or searching for other info.
This is the part that I'm trying hard for. I'm trying to be strong and supportive to her and the other two, not show my hurt and incredible disappointment. The two oldest are expressing hurt on my behalf and I keep saying that I am sad, but I will be ok, we will all (Dad too) be ok in some time. This is not how I wanted this to happen at all.
BTW, good move on facilitating IC for her.
This is a great opportunity to show your daughters some critical life lessons--- we can be hurt and it's ok to express that hurt... but our own happiness and our view of ourselves is in our control--it is not dependent on someone else's view of us! We can get past the hurt of a breakup and still feel strong and worthy and good about ourselves.
I think it's ok and healthy for them to see that this makes you sad. .. but also that your life is not over and even though life will be different, it can still be good and happy.
Forcing yourself to show them that may help you get through it too. ..
The script is frustrating, I feel like I'm crazy and just imagened our life together.
Yes, very frustrating. That is why patience is key to this entire process.
My IC told me the same thing today. She gave me some good ideas on how to do it.
My IC said this same thing too.
And I did it for free? Hmmm.....
Please send the check to:
Woundedfool
2100 Woodward Avenue
Detroit, MI 48201
Thank you Claire. That is a message I need to keep in the forefront of my mind. I am modeling for them, I to be what I want them see.
Lol woundedfool, I will have to set up a weekly appointment with you!
Well i called H to tell him I knew about the affair, it went something like this:
Me: I know a little about your affair.
H: I don't know what you are talking about.
Me: D10 found a bag with cards, books, and receipts for gifts.
H: I don't know about a bag.
Me: well one card said "Babe, when I saw you on your first day at corporate today I got butterflies in my stomach" it concluded with how she can't wait til you are all hers. D10 found them and D17 read them all and looked at the receipts from Tiffany's and Victoria Secrets.
H: Silence
Me: Ring any bells?
H: I am shamed.
It went on for awhile, he said that the affair ended last February which is the same month he filed for divorce. He said it lasted just over a year. I think it was longer, they were actively planning on his leaving me in February so I think he must have gotten involved before January, I know it should not matter, but even a year is such a long time.
When I showed my lawyer the "affair bag" she said to ask for a settlement proposal in the next 5 to 7 seven days. I did, he now wants to slow down the divorce and try to go to family therapy. I was floored, but really, I don't think he wants to be married to me, I think he feels embaressed and lost. Mindreading I know. I told him to go and talk to an IC and try to figure out why he feels out of control.
I still plan on going foward with divorce, mainly because I need to protect myself and the children who I'm raising mainly by myself, financially. I just don't trust that he wants the marriage, that he won.t get involved with someone else, or that this is a way to get me to move while still wanting a divorce down the line. Also, I just don't know if the affair is a deal braker.
He has taken full responsibility, so far, to my D17 and says he is trying to be the best man he can be. He says he is very sorry for the pain he has caused, but thought everyone would be happier. D17 started IC today, I plan on getting the two others in soon.
I'm a mess, again. I feel like all of the work I have done in thd last three months has vanished and I'm starting over.
Actually, that last sentence is not exactly true. I am back to crying and thinking about H far too much. But, I'm a different person now, I have changed, and I need to remember that as well as continue to change thd things I need to.
Feeling thankful for my girls today on Mother's Day. They are trying to make the day extra special. My D17 had H send flowers and she wrote the card.
Happy Mother's Day to all the Mama's!!!
Happy Mother's Day to you!
I think you seem to be accepting the affair discovery and his dissembling beautifully.
Try not to worry so much about what he's thinking about you or anything. Figure out the oath that's best for you and the kids and move in that direction.
Slowing things down may be in everyone's best interests. In my experience it's always been helpful to not react from emotion.
It has been such a weird time since I told H I knew about his affair. He and i have been in contact more now since before BD. I have expressed my hurt and anger to him for myself and for the kids. H has said how sorry he is and that he is remorseful. He uses the tearm self lothing quite often.
The good is that my H seems like my old H again. The bad is that I have lost some detachment and I spend so much time thinking about everything. I'm having a hard time trusting anything H says to me. The affair ended the same month he filed for D, that confuses me so much. They spent over a year getting to this point and when they do, they break up. They still work in same office, H says he communicates with her about 30 seconds a week. That is 30 seconds too long for me.
H is in town for the first time in 3 weeks and the first time since I found out. He has my little girls and I'm going to spend most of my day with them at D10 soccer tournament. I'm not going to miss it just because he is here, but it may be too much. I don't really know what he wants from me, and the hardest part is I have no idea anymore what I want. After this weekend, he will be gone again for at least three weeks, I intend to work on detaching again, and GAL.
Yesterday was d10 soccer tournament, I was supposed to meet H and little D's up North to the games. When I got ready to go, my car would not start because the battery died. H dropped D10 and drove back down to get me.
We spent the day watching soccer we took the girls out to lunch. It was a lot like old times and the first we were together since affair discovery and our D's knowing about divorce. It was hard too, H is so much like old H of over a year ago. In my head I keep thinking about what he did, I look at his ringless hand and think about it touching another woman for over a year. I wonder if he is so happy because maybe he found a new woman. When I saw him texting, I wondered who he was texting. I said nothing, but in my head I was a little crazy.
He dropped me off and changed my battery (I miss that help!) and took the little D's to another city for the night. He got teary when he left because D17 will not see him and she was gettingready for prom. He asked if I would send a picture, which I did. Also he noticed that I packed all his clothes up (or rather, my mother did!) and I think that hit home for him. I don't really know what he expected, he has been planning this for a long time.
I'm trying to be open to him, but I'm not sure if that i the right thing or not. At the very least it can help with parenting. I do feel a little resentful that he sees them one weekend a month, and it is play time, while I do the main parenting by myself. But I do try to remind myself how lucky I am to have them so much
Sorry for the long post, it has been a confusing weekend.
((MamaB))
It is confusing- and frustrating.
FWIW- my H planned his exit for a year, and 12 hrs after he verbalized it, panicked and had second thoughts. The reality can hit them hard. I'm willing to bet your H is grappling with guilt, too. Your D17s reaction to him is just the first taste of the consequences he will have as time goes on.
Hang in there- i would bet he's struggling right now, too.
Thank you Artsy. You are exactly correct, he is struggling for sure. It is hard when we talk on the phone and he says he is sorry for hurting the girls. I don't want him to hurt, but that other part of me thinks "yes, they ard hurt by this! What did you think woukd happen?"
Yesterday H took little D's tp D10's soccer lunch. I met them there and we all had fun with other team parents. We just had tryouts for their first year in select soccer and most of the girls will be on the same team next year. Lots of talk about what to expect from this next step.
H and were comfortable, and again, H was like old H of over a year ago. After the lunch H and I sat on the patio. We talked about the kids and H said he wants us to go to MC. I told him how hurt I have been and asked some questions about affair. The ow is married and H said he really did believe that I would move to Denver and we would each have op and we woud all be happier. He said it was like looking at life through different eyes and just recently he is able to see clearly and is still trying to figure it out himself. He did say that he felt entitled as well as neglected by me. I did own up to the issues that I felt I contributed (lack of affection, attention, etc...) I told him I was sorry for my part in m and that I will not make those mistakes in next R.
He has told me repeatedly how sorry he is for everything and to let him kniw about mc. It would be pretty hard as he now lives in Denver. He says he would try to get down every other weekend. Healso said about looking at something in a city about an hour away from where i live. So who knows.
I feel that I'm starting to forgive him, but I just don't know if I can get past everything. My D17 still won't talk to him and is not too happy that I am. That is hard, she was more comfortable when I was NC. I was too in some ways. Nowthat the a is over, I don't want to be the consolation prize. This does showme that the fog is real, at least that is how he is discribing it all.
I'm still plugging along. I still feel very confused about D and future with my H. I did. Not think I would see him for weeks, but he was able to come back fir the weekend. I had dinner with him and my two younger D's on Saturday night. My D17 is still not talking to him. Dinner was ok, like many we used to have as a family. H took two girls to another town for the rest of the weekend, they will be home tomorrow.
I'm still trying to work through if thd A is a deal breaker for me. I don't want to have to go through this whole thing again. Also, he does want to stall th D and try MC. It would be hard with us living in different cities, but he says he will try to come every other week. I have agreed the C but not to stall D yet.
I'm also struggling with the fact D17 is disappointed with me for talking to her Dad. She is so mad and hurt, I am too, but forgiving him is easier. My family is also not a big fan of his right nos and would think I'm crazy to try. Most of ou friends still don't know so that is easier, except I'm not living my reality witb them and that is hard too.
GAL today included working out and painting a bookshelf with chalk paint, I'm on my break to let first coat dry. I hope it turns out! I'm going to girlsnight out Thursday.
I do have a meeting with investigative paralegal Tuesday for spending accout exhibit. I'm scared this will piss me off and I may find out more than I want too know. It has been such a rollercoaster these last four months and I feel numb.
I'm sorry about your daughter struggling so much. I am very grateful that my kids don't know about their father being so dishonorable. In some ways it is easier for them at this stage, because they see his apartment as more of an adventure than a desertion. I'm wondering how long it will feel that way.
As far as deciding if the A is a deal-breaker, I would suggest giving it some time. My H gave me a lot of apologies, etc., too, but in the end he can't seem to turn his back on her. So don't feel like you have to make a decision how you feel now. You may not yet have all the facts. Marriage counseling might help with that, if you can see that he is using it to make an honest effort.
Hugs to you...
Mama,
Interested to hear how your DIY project worked out. My D20 and I are scheduled to take a class in chalk paint in June, and I can't wait. I grew up on furniture refinishing (my mom, BFF and her mom were the ones who did it), so am anxious to get started. I have a few pieces I'm going to try first and then work up to my kitchen cabinets. What color(s) did you use?
My first question to you: Do you believe that he's being sincere? From what you've written, you do. But you're gauging your next step on how the people around you feel. To me, THAT'S the deal breaker.
That being said, I can't answer this for you. However, if this was the only time in your R with him that you've had to overlook an affair, I might be inclined to ask you: What have you got to lose by doing the work now?
I have a dear friend here in Denver who was in your shoes 40 years ago. Her kids were angry with her for even contemplating reconciling. She stayed in therapy and so did her H. If your H is here, why not do a parallel course in IC and ask him to do the same? Ask him to delve deeply into the issues that got him to leave in the first place. And when the time is right (if you get to that point), you can ask him to court you.
Drop the rope and see how it plays out.
Now about the kids. My friend told her teenagers this:
"Your dad and I took vows that ended with 'til death do us part. I take that commitment seriously. I don't know if this is possible, but I owe him and myself the commitment to try. If it doesn't work, we'll divorce. But if he does, then I'm getting back the person that I married more whole. He's your dad, and your R with him is yours. I won't interfere with your decisions, so therefore, I ask you to support me with mine."
Her kids are my age, and they came around. But their dad had a lot of work to do to regain the respect he lost by his actions (my friend actually kicked him out). He "dated" her for a year, and when she could see his actions as sincere and reliable and trustworthy over that time, they set a plan for him to move back in. I'm happy to say that I attended their 50th anniversary party some years ago. I've never known them as anything other than happy.
Your kids are hurt. And your D17 is old enough to know what caused the mess. Basically, in his storm, she was taken out as collateral damage.
Also, please get "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. Even if you don't reconcile your M, maybe it will help YOU heal so you can parent effectively.
So I'd summarize by advising you to look into your heart and then let things play out with no expectations. Drop the rope, let him lead and see what actions he takes to determine how committed he is to this process.
I really wish you well on this.
Betsey
Thank you for the hugs Maybell! I do agree that I need some time with all of this. I need patience to find my way.
So good to hear from you Betsy! My shelves turned out great! The chalk paint was so easy to use. I picked a ladder type shelf that leans against the wall with graduated shelves. We have had it forever and it was showing it's age but I love the shape. I used Annie Sloan chalk paint in the color Provence which is close to an egg shell blue. The paint is great because you can use it on anything and without any primer, you can mix with water to make a wash, mix with white or black paint to vary the colors. It dried very quickly and did not have heavy paint smell. I want to buy more colors and paint everything. You and your daughter will love the class, please let me know how it goes!
To answer your first question, I do feel like he is being sincere and I do not believe there has been any other OW in his life before this one. What goes through my mind though is that he lied to me for over a year about this OW so is he lying now? He was pretty convincing with his words, however his behavior towards me during the time of the A was very withdrawn and dismissive and now he is more interactive and engaged with me.
I do struggle with what my family thinks and feels. I feel as if I will be letting them down. They are pretty disappointed and mad at him. My parents were here on a visit the day after H called to tell about D and when I was served papers at the door. They left and when they came back to visit is when we found the evidence of affair, unfortunately they have had a front row seat to all the emotion. I do realize that this is my choice and I just hope that they will support and except whatever happens. My D17 is exactly collateral damage and he is feeling it right now (I really hate this part.)
Your suggestion of dropping the rope is exactly what I want to do. I want H to make the choices and take the actions to try to work things through or not. I want to know that he really wants to work at this because I realize how much work it will take. He knows I have been seeing an IC and that I have been trying to work on what I contributed to the failure of our M. He says he wants to see his own IC to work on his end, but he has not yet. He wants to see MC but that will take me to organize, which is fine really, but I want him to take some action that this is really what he wants.
So, do I just drop the rope and see what action he takes, or do I try to communicate what I need to keep going (although I'm not even sure what that is at this point.)?
Thank you for the story of your friend, those success stories help to know others have gotten through it and are happy.
I have just started to read "After the Affair", so far I can completely relate to the hurt partner, especially the part about feeling that you are disposable.
I will drop the rope.
Thank you Betsey.