I am 33 years old and so is my wife, we have two sons one is 4 and the other is 2. We have been together for 9 years, living together for 8.5 years, and married for 6 years.
Wife announced she was thinking about separation at the beginning of December 2013, then moved out 12/28/13. It was a big surprise for me as I thought we were doing good. She is living in a house that her parents keep that was vacant.
We take turns with the kids and juggle them around our schedule.
I think we have worked each other apart.
In the last 6 months she started a Doctoral program, took on additional high stress duties along with her regular teaching, and serves on many boards at the college and is the Faculty Senate President. High stress and busy to say the least.
In the last 6 months I have been managing a multi-million construction project that has been high stress and long hours an at times I had to leave at the drop of a hat and travel out of state 5 hours away for days or a week at a time. This along with managing my other clients and workers that normally take up most of my work week. I was basically on call and working nights and weekends without any previous notice. Again, high stress.
She said her breaking point was Thanksgiving weekend when I was trying to be home with the family, but was visually miserable and emotionally absent because of the overwhelming stress and work. She told me to go to work if I needed and she said when I closed the door "something broke inside me."
At this point in our lives we were so scheduled and committed that a normal day would be as follows: I would work 7 to 4, pick up kids, cook dinner, eat with wife and kids, put them to bed at 8, leave for my office and work until 10 or 12 at night. Other days she would get the kids, cook, we would eat dinner, she would leave after bed time and work until late.
We basically did not have time to be together and maintain our relationship and she felt alone and abandoned by me emotionally during this time. After 4 to 6 months of this is when she broke.
I have been reading DR and just started the LRT. I was reading other books and applying relationship techniques when we would interact, but now know that we needed to be together for them to work.
Last Sunday I asked to take her to lunch on Wednesday and dinner Friday. Big mistake and after starting reading DR I know why. At the end of the heated talk/fight she basically said she wants a divorce but is waiting for me to work through my emotions.
She has her "revisionist history" of our relationship and says it was bad for 5 years. We were good in our relationship in late April early May and I think our last six months destroyed us.
We never worked on our relationship, never thought we needed to as we got along very well. But as our lives changed we didn't adapt our relationship skills and the separation is the result.
Kind of a long rambling story, but wanted to explain a lot of the back story.
I need help with LRT and how to work through our small interactions. We had been having dinner as a family on Sundays, but that may have been killed last week.
Thanks.
On Sunday W came over to get the kids and we had a very quiet exchange, not many things said, just talking to the kids and not to each other. Felt weird and defeating, but I was not going to initial conversation, read the 37 rules before she came over to keep strong.
We had a melt down last Sunday when I asked to take her to lunch and on a date. This is what led me to DR, and now know it was the wrong thing to do.
Is small talk about her work day and classes something that I should be doing right now? I know that for the last 6 months this was something that was missing. Think this should be one of my 180s, but don't want it to seem like pursuing.
I also know W is getting interest from co-workers about her doctoral program, but I don't want to be replaced as her support structure.
Before we blew up last Sunday, we pretty much agreed on what the issues were on 90% to 95% of our M. The solution is where we differ, but I was pushing and pursuing and now know from the 37 rules not to take much stock in what she says.
She also told me two weeks into it that she was reading books and she liked "Coming Apart: Why Relationships End and How to Live Through the Ending of Yours" by Daphne Rose Kingma. She thought I should read it.
She also said during early discussions that she read a lot about when M are over. I know she has done research into validating her feelings about the M, just like I am with DR.
Should I read the book she said she liked? I know it will be rough to read because it goes against my feelings, but it may give me insight into what she has been reading to validate how she feels.
We moved Go over from WAS section so he can get some better/more advice. Glad to see you made it over.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...662#Post2427662
So lets get you started.
You sound like you understand some of the dynamics that got your marriage where it is. Now for some things you need to take into consideration. As of right now, your marriage is dead, but that doesn't mean you cant build a new/stronger one. Its going to take time, and its going to take a lot of work.
When your wife pulled the trigger, you have to understand she didn't come lightly to her decision. She'd been thinking this LONG before she actually said something to you. On the day she told you (BD day) she detached from you and the marriage.
Not that it matters, but do you think there might be someone else? What you need to do right now is just give her plenty of time and space. Your going to be using that time, as a gift. To address the issues that she felt she could no longer count on your support.
Understand, your not out there to tell her your working on these things. Your doing it cause you know you need to make them. Your going to be the best damn father/husband you can be right now. You are going to become the man only a fool would leave. This isn't going to happen overnight, and she's going to think your going about this to win her back, not trust your efforts. She will need to see long consistent effort, and I mean LONG, before she might be willing to believe them.
Understand that you probably have a year or two of work ahead of you. It needs to become part of your lifestyle, not an effort to win her back. Do you understand that first sentence? You are going to have to learn to be patient, this is something you probably don't have much of, if your job was a stress filled schedule tight area.
Your probably having some anxiety attacks, hardly sleeping or eating. So make sure your taking care of yourself, and get some exercise, even if its just doing some push ups/sit ups in the morning or evening.
Understand she might be all over the place for a while, try not to bring up and R (relationship talk), keep your conversations about finances and kids only. NO pressure. If she brings it up, its ok to LISTEN and validate her. Try not to interrupt, keep eye contact, and never interject your opinion right now. A good response(s) for now will be "I understand how you feel" and/or "That's something im working on"
Understand, the rewriting marital history is pretty common, its to help her justify leaving. So for now, your going to believe half of what she does, and none of what she says. Right now, your always going to be positive, state of mind is a big thing. You know to not act mopey or depressed around her, its not attractive, and actually works against you in many ways.
Focus, on the task at hand, fixing your half of the issues. Try not to mind read what she might be thinking, its probably wrong anyways. Just keep focused on what you can, your changes, and being a great father, cause theres nothing more attractive than a great dad!
Your probably on moderation right now, which means we wont see your posts for 2-5 days. So make sure your reading some other threads, giving out some support, and post until the moderation ends. Things will get easier with advice if you post updates, offer help/support to others, include as much detail as possible for better advice. We're here to help you save your marriage, and yourself.
Some of the vets might stop by, and offer advice, sometimes you might get a 2x4, know this isn't to be critical, its to best make you understand when you make a mistake, and you WILL make plenty of them. When you do, get refocused and right back to work.
Please include any more details, be as honest as you can in your assessment of things. Also I don't want you to be over-guilty. Meaning I don't want you taking all the blame onto yourself right now, don't try to be superman and try to fix it ALL, and certainly try to fix it all right now, its not happening. That damn patience thing is really going to test you like never before. Ok buddy, its time to get started. Hope to see some responses soon.
oh one last thing, only post in this thread in regards to your situation (sitch). When it reaches 100 posts, you can start another and link it back to this one. Its easier for people to follow when its easier to navigate thru and have the information in one spot.
Go,
Yours is a common story. Husband and wife allow their lives to become so filled up by other commitments, instead of each other, that one (or both) falls out of love with the other. Usually they exist like this for a bit, until someone else comes along. That someone makes time for for the lonely spouse. Makes them feel important, special, attractive. It's at this point that the lonely spouse begins to see what their marriage is lacking- passion, attention, care, conversation....History gets re-written- "I was never in love with my spouse", "I've been unhappy for a long time", "I'm broken inside".....
I'm going to bet that your wife has someone special in her life. It may not be a PA, but it's an EA. It won't take much digging on your part to find out, and I suggest that you do, it will help to know what you're up against. I think that you already realize that with your current schedules your marriage is doomed. The two of you must have lots of alone time together each week in order to maintain a loving marriage. Right now you cannot control your Ws schedule, but you can control yours. I suggest you start finding free time for yourself and your sons, time that you will eventually have to share with your wife if she comes back to you. She must see that there are concrete changes that you are making in order for her to have hope that you can remain a couple.
I would avoid the LRT right now- that's essentially what got you here. You have to be accessible without being clingy and pursuing. She has to be able to see your changes and she won't be able to do that if you go dark. There may be a time to go LRT, but this isn't the time.
Keep us updated.
Hs
The W has had an EA with a coworker who was interested in her doctoral work. She felt listened too and made her feel important. I think it may have ended, but not positive about it. I can see now how that would change how she felt in the M.
What has conflicted me is if I should use LRT or not. LRT just doesn't seem to fit to well.
One of my 180s needs to be increased communication and support for the W. Could this also be seen as pursuing?
I am working through a lot of my issues. Some are gone completely because of work changes.
Called her last night and told her a book she needs has not shown up yet and also that I was going to personally tell my grandparents our sitch. Don't know how she felt but they needed to know.
Initially we both agreed that we did not want them to know because they are in their 80s and seem fragile. The more I thought about it I wanted to tell them myself instead of hearing rumor.
Any suggestions about reading the book she read on ending a M?
Go,
Well, what your wife is saying is script for those in an A. I would guess that there is still contact, and that she's looking to explore that R further. You need to give her hope that you are an alternative to this other person. That you can provide for her emotional needs better than he can. I would not go LRT right now. Do whatever you can to address her complaints, and find time in your schedule so that she can see that you would have time for her. As the father of her children you have the inside track.
Do not tell her of your intended changes- just make them. Know that she may rebel against your changes, telling you that she thinks it's a ploy and that it won't work. Simply validate and let her know that you understand why she would feel that way, but your making changes in your life that are for you and are long overdue. Don't get sucked into an argument with her about it. As hard as it is, stay positive and strong around her. Likely she's feeling conflicted inside (despite what she says) and will see you in a different light if you can keep your changes going. It takes a LONG time, so be patient!
Hs
I know this is hard, but it gets easier, you CANNOT focus on what she's doing right now. It doesn't matter what she's reading or doing or saying, etc. Its ALL about what you must do, and it sounds like you def. have some work ahead of you.
If you can become the man only a fool would leave, then those books wont matter in the long run.
When it comes to family, I'd recommend prob not saying anything to anyone really. If someone does have something they want to question. A good safe answer is always "We're working on some things" end of discussion. No matter what you say or how you say it, it never comes back around the way you meant it. So play it safe. Do you have a friend that you can confide in? or ONE family member, a brother or sister you can trust go keep it all to themselves? There can be no maybe's here. You have to be sure.
You can increase communication, just not about any R talk. The kids, the bills, schedules, school, dinner ideas.
Make a family night out with kids, make it a routine, ask wife if she' like to join you or more like she's welcome to com, but never show anger or frustration if she doesn't.
We grew up and live in a small community so rumors travel fast, that is why I told my grandparents and some family members. I do not disclose every detail, just the main facts of living apart.
Any friend that I could possibly trust would be either a mutual friend or their wife or girlfriend is friends with my wife.
I am working on GAL. Doing dinners and stuff with friends.
Decided to open up communication last night with a couple of text messages about kids and the weather and asking about her classes. She expressed that her class load was "hell" and she has "TONS of work".
I replied with saying "Being under pressure and having a lot of work is difficult but you are good at getting things taken care of, I know you can do it". I didn't want it to seem like pursuing, but wanted to show her emotional support and that I believe in her.
I didn't get a reply, but I didn't panic. She has not heard words of support from me for a while so I am sure it seemed disingenuous.
Good point about not reading the book, makes no difference how I feel about the M.
We must have been really stressed, overworked, and tired because I keep hearing from the close friends and family that I have disclosed the situation to that they were "worried for us" or wondered "how long we could last at our pace". We are both really goal driven, but now know that my goal needs to be family and M, not just work.
I need to work on my conversational skills, but with baby steps and patience my goal is to increase discussions about what she has going on in her life. I keep reminding myself that patience will bring this about.
I constantly asked about her day and school over the last 6 months, but my stress killed my ability to listen and I was in problem solving mode (damn engineering school). A big 180 of mine is listening with the heart and emotion,not trying to problem solve, and STFU.
Go,
I think that you know now that if you want a happy marriage, then you have to find a position where you can spend lots of time each week with your wife - alone. Burning the candle at both ends is a recipe for marital disaster. I have friends and aquatintances that spent too much time at work trying to get ahead, or all of their free time taking their kids to sports and other activities. They thought that it was the right thing to do, even bragged about it. Unfortunately, each one of those I mentioned went through finding out that their spouse was cheating on them. Of those that stayed together, they had to make drastic changes (new jobs, less hours, moving, reducing kid's sports) in order for their marriages to survive.
Jobs, kids, church groups, clubs, friends, YOU NAME IT, will all eat up every last ounce of your time if you allow them to. Learn to say "no"
.
Hs
GO- I am so glad that you found this board. You will get lots of great advice. My sitch is exactly the same. My H worked 24/7, I worked full time and have a billable hour requirement, 3 little kids. We were going nonstop and it caught up to us big time. We started to regret things about one another and then stopped supporting each other completely because there was not enough time in the day. H started an EA with a co-worked who made him feel needed and appreciated. So I know exactly where you are coming from. I helped me to know that I was not alone and that other people have heard about the exact same script from their WAS.
When my H left, he was mean and angry. While he claimed that he wanted my support (his reason for the A), he clearly did not want it after BD. I am sure that he thought it was a little too late. So I completely backed off. I have let my H drive the communication. It has worked to get us back to more neutral ground.
Keep writing about your journey.
3boyz
Thanks for the support, it does help to know that I am not alone in my struggle. I think the W and I are on a good neutral ground that I hope expands. I keep hoping that things will settle down and we can talk, but with her still pursuing the doctorate she has little time.
I want so bad to have the chance to perform in the R with my new found goals and practice new R skills that it hurts. Every day there are things that I can find that remind me of something we shared together.
I am confused about what to do about Valentine's Day. She flat out told me a couple of weeks ago that she did not want to do V-day or her birthday on the 25th. I think what she meant was that she did not want presents or grand gestures. I keep thinking that if I was emotionally absent that I need to show support on these days.
My idea is to write her a letter explaining how proud of her I am and how wonderful she is, all the while trying to not use the word "love" because I think it would be detrimental to say "love". Is this a good idea? In my mind I think it is.
I am currently out of town, but have been trying to keep communication open with text messages. Contact and talking feels good, even if it is about kids, weather, etc.
Hopeful,
I hear what you are saying about time eating up all of our time; too bad hind sight is 20/20. The unfortunate truth is that I think she would not stop her doctoral program and I would not encourage her to (at this point). People who care about us both have asked if she was going to postpone or stop her classes right now to work on us, but she has said no. I think she does not have time to even think about our M or R.
I know it sounds more attractive to keep on going now that we are is a bad spot. When the S first began we both said how we would have changed things significantly if we would have know the outcome. But when I said lets start over and work on this, she did not feel the same. The sitch was really fresh at this time though.
I have great hope for us, but don't know if this is just me being unrealistic or not. I am far away from me giving up any time in the near or far future.
Gogofo, I've been following your thread as I feel I'm in a similar sitch. I also have been wondering about Valentine's Day. Do nothing and treat it as any other day so as not to add pressure? Or treat W as a friend and make sure not to do anything over the top? I've been leaning towards doing something as a family and keep the focus on the kids- just a thought.
Just a little journaling.
The W sent me a text that she wants to get some furniture and couches from the house on Sunday. I will have the kids and she does not want them to be here when she does this. I do not want to be here either.
The message was difficult to read, even though I know she expressed wanting these items before. She originally was going to take them on January 16th and 17th. I know she had what she wanted to take from the house planned out long ago, it is just that now it feels like she is moving towards a more permanent solution.
After the text I have been reading inspirational quotes and telling myself "Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see". I know this is a step she needs to take.
When I picked up the kids I remained strong and stayed positive.
Another issue is we have a dog that was her Grandfather's that will need to get put down this week. It breaks my heart and it also scares the hell out of me.
Her G-pa lived with her since she was 8 and we got the dog after he died in 2007. He died February 15th, now the dog will be gone during the same time. She told me she was going to put him down and I said that I wanted to be there; he had been our dog also.
She has said, and I know, that it is going to be just like burying her G-pa all over again. I want to be there for her but do not know how to approach it or what it will do to us and our situation.
If our relationship was still strong I would just hold her and let her get all of the pain out. She used to find great comfort in my embrace, she even told me many times during our R.
I am going to baby step it and play it by ear and feel it out, I just really am worried for her and her emotions. Loss always hit her very hard. My instinct will be to ask her how she is doing and ask what I could do for her.
Maybe I need to 180 the asking what I can do and just be there to listen.
Any tips on how to approach this?
Well I think things may be progressing slowly, but progressing none the less.
We met this morning to fill out passport papers for our youngest and we had a pleasant interaction. I am getting good and the "good neighbor" interaction. We talked about her work and her Dr. classes and I only asked and listened and tried a little empathy.
She left and I left and then she sent me pictures of our youngest eating his donut.
Small victory, but non the less a victory.
Build on the decent neutral interactions.
In time they can be where you demonstrate that she can relax around you. Then the old friendship you have, and the bonds that only parenting provides, will show thru more too.
her grandfather was your family too, in that he lived with you, right? And so did the dog? Express YOUR emotions for them and don't be robotically there just to support her. But of course, do that as well.
I think a hand on her back, or just being next to her and saying SOMETHING real and genuine about the deceased dog (or the bond the dog had with the grandfather??) makes sense.
My sister and her recently divorced h had to put their dog down. They were both remarried. Their new spouses made themselves scarce and the "original" family of 5 plus the dog, gathered as the vet came over to put her down gently and lovingly.
It was very sad and then my former BIL removed the dog to "handle" that part, and while they were married, I'm not sure he could have done that. It was a moment when they both rose to the occasion and it meant a lot to my sister and the kids and the x BIL I'm sure.
But HIS new wife was so angry at being excluded, that my x bil had to be in a hotel for 2 nights. (See? There is Karma.)
Point is, it was also bittersweet for my sister. I think she felt a lot of familiar feelings rush up.
Whatever happens, be in the moment then. Don't speculate and emote based on something NOT happening. Do you know what I mean?
I'm a lawyer married to an MD who was in med school when our first child was born (I was still in law school and though we were married, our son was NOT planned then. He was about 5 years "premature.")
So I'm familiar with the "arms race" that breaks up marriages. The superwoman syndrome and the "you can have it all (NOW!)" mirage we all bought into, has hurt us a lot.
Slow down. DO THAT. Also you wrote:
I have great hope for us, but don't know if this is just me being unrealistic or not. I am far away from me giving up any time in the near or far future.
When you say you are are far from giving up, the first time I read that I thought you meant you would not give up Work Time...
Yikes, misread on my end. Okay, well, I'm hopeful for you as well. In 2006 I gave our m a 10% chance of success. I've been in dark places before, maritally speaking. Here's a little of what I learned:
Snooping is NOT going to benefit you in ANY WAY at all. That's why it is frowned upon in DR. Please read up on it before you do it, in case someone here keeps telling you to focus on that....
If an A is not an absolute deal breaker, then why bother snooping? I don't get it at all.
I think BECOMING the better choice is what most matters.
reading the book SHE suggests, won't hurt you.
I know It won't feel good, but at least you'll know what HER internal monologue is saying. Do not challenge her choices right now. That only forces her to defend them, which solidifies them. What MUST be decided now, in reality? Usually, not that much.
FYI, my h was out of our house, mostly out, for 2 years. I think that is how long real change takes although I am Not suggesting that everyone needs to be apart that long.
In my h's case, his journey "required" him to get yet another credential and then to live on the tundra, where I think he felt a lot younger than his 50th birthday suggested.
I had to release him to his "task" and let him go. I could not teach him that we were more important than his JOB or a place. Only life could teach him that. And it did.
It's not our job to "teach a lesson" to our spouse, or to "show them the consequences" of their choices. Again, Life does that.
This^^ tip about Not teaching our spouses lessons, was a hard one for me. My DB coach stressed it a lot. I think I wanted, subconsciously, to punish my h and under the ruse of "teaching him" a lesson, I was trying to make him suffer for his choices and then I guess I thought, (subconsciously, that he'd wake up faster).
For me, deciding what was punitive and what was a healthy genuine boundary. were real challenges. But as I embraced them, I got a lot better in my life with ALL my r's. I just did not spend time correcting others.
I DID stand up for myself but I stayed out of other people's sandboxes. I have enough of my own stuff to work on, and do not need to be in my h's sandbox to fix him. Not my job. Never was.
I wish I had spent way way LESS time on wondering why/how my h could do what he was doing, and
more time on ME and OUR KIDS and creating new fulfilling lives for them. It so helped my situation but it took me a year of wondering and obsessing about h, to get into the groove of GAL and Detaching.
I cannot stress to you enough, how important GAL is for you now. We hammer it for a reason; it works. You cannot detach without GAL.
Plus in your situation, you two probably dropped most hobbies and passions in favor of work.
What would it look like for you to take up a passionate hobby? I assume it'd be a major 180, plus you'd meet new people who do NOT know your situation and therefore would not remind you of it.
(I took the kids to Italy for our 25th anniversary b/c I knew H would mention it but not be here for it and I could not spend another anniversary wondering where he was or what he was doing. The trip was the best way to spend money that I didn't have, ever. Nothing reminded me of h and the kids and I had a blast, which proved WE could have fun and be a family even with one parent missing. Military families know this and we were once a military family. IT was a great reminder of this truth however, we are a family no matter where h is).
IMO, you'd be more interesting to her, by doing something brand new or that you always wanted to do. Even if it's only two nights a month, DO IT. You need it and you can afford it if you place a priority on it. You can also involve the kids in SOME of the GAL things....
then, vis a vis your w, You'd bring something to the table other than more responsibilities. Make sense?
Getting back into my hobbies is something I am starting to do again. I gave them up for work and family, but never minded giving it up for family.
I have been doing pretty good with the GAL and never thought that a 180 could be doing hobbies again.
She even mentioned over different times that I need to get back into the garage and/or do things I enjoy. I think she felt that she had taken my personal life from me, probably because she felt she had lost some of herself too.
I always waited for time to open up to do hobbies but it never happened. Now I realize I need to make time for priorities.
Did you ever read DR? Some of your actions don't seem to reflect that.
I have read it, along with other books. I may be mixing and confusing some of the methods from other books with the methods of DR.
I will have to review the book again and the notes I took when reading it.
I am confused about what to do about Valentine's Day. She flat out told me a couple of weeks ago that she did not want to do V-day or her birthday on the 25th. I think what she meant was that she did not want presents or grand gestures. I keep thinking that if I was emotionally absent that I need to show support on these days.
What is your idea of showing support on Valentine's Day if she has left the M?
By her flat out telling you she did not want "to do" these two days.......you think she is saying "no" but really means "yes"?
Has she told you this in the past, when you were living together? If so, did you honor her request or do what you thought she really meant?
I'm not trying to give you a difficult time about this subject, but you might to well to listen to what she is saying.
If your W has moved out of the home, then she clearly wants away from you. You have a nature that wants to pursue her and try to change her mind/feelings. There was a time for pursuit in your relationship with her, but now is not the time. She wants space from you.....and by not stepping back, she will feel emotional pressured.....not support.
Pursuing does not work on a WAW. The harder you press...the farther away you push her. I realize you don't want to believe it, and you want to think the old way works. It won't work this time. But you can learn a new way.
It makes sense now that you type it back to me. Thanks for keeping me straight.
I hope this doesn't add to your confusion, but I wanted to add or clarify something about support regarding the family pet who has been so loved over many years
To me, this sad occassion you both will face is different from the celebrations of birthdays and Valetines. Unless she has asked you not to be there when the pet is put to sleep, I would offer to your support. I would say the same if it was one of her relatives who were in a terrible accident or had passed away.
You wouldn't take advantage of the situation by being there if you aren't wanted or overstay your welcome. I think 25yrs gave you a good example. So without going into a lot of detail, I trust you can see the extrem different events and why you would offer true support (emotional or physical) in this exception. But if you are confused by what I've stated, then let me know and I will try to do a better job explaining what I mean.
I understand the difference and see that putting down the dog would warrant emotional and physical support.
Here is where I am confused and need advice. The W just emailed and asked if I could drop off kids at school Thursday and Friday.
This is because she has to wake at about 5:45 in order to get ready and by at my house by 6:45. I know she is working on her Doctorate and needs the time to complete assignments.
I would have to come in work later on those days, which usually isn't a big deal.
It makes me mad that this would not be in issue if she had not left, and I would not have to go to work later.
But... In the past I have been putting work before family which is one of my issues that I want to change about myself.
I see three possible decisions:
1. take the kids to school those days
2. let her keep the kids those days
3. tell her I want the kids and I cannot take them to school, she it the one that left and will have to figure it out
I am leaning towards #1 as it I can do this without issue and it would show that family is more important than work.
Is this the right move?
This happened to us. Our 12 year old Pug got really sick. It was in October exw filed in July. I was a real mess. I remember 25MLCs advice. Be there he was my doggie too. That was one very hard day. The vet asked if we wanted to be there. Exw said no, she was an iceberg. But I remember what 25 said. I said that I wanted to hold him while it happened. My daughter was there too and she said wanted to stay, brave little girl. While the doctor injected him my and daughter and I cried a lot. Ex had no affect. He died in my arms. We cried some more. Ex wanted for the vet to put him down and make as sanitary as possible. No pain no death it never happened, that's how I view it.
I understand the difference and see that putting down the dog would warrant emotional and physical support.
Here is where I am confused and need advice. The W just emailed and asked if I could drop off kids at school Thursday and Friday.
This is because she has to wake at about 5:45 in order to get ready and by at my house by 6:45. I know she is working on her Doctorate and needs the time to complete assignments.
I would have to come in work later on those days, which usually isn't a big deal.
It makes me mad that this would not be in issue if she had not left, and I would not have to go to work later.
IF it is not a big deal, then it's not a big deal. Don't pretend otherwise to punish her, b/c that is what it is. Punishment. "IF she had not left..." then I would not have to make this "no big deal" sacrifice.
What are you trying go model here, for her, behaviorally?
But... In the past I have been putting work before family which is one of my issues that I want to change about myself.
Gee, this seems like an obvious opportunity to show a 180, right?
I see three possible decisions:
1. take the kids to school those days
2. let her keep the kids those days
3. tell her I want the kids and I cannot take them to school, she it the one that left and will have to figure it out
I am leaning towards #1 as it I can do this without issue and it would show that family is more important than work.
Is this the right move?
it's easy to rule OUT #3, I hope.
and #2 Is the same as #3, but without admitting it is chosen to punish her.
Remember what my DB Coach said, ( and please forgive me if I am repeating myself) that
it's NOT our job to fix our spouses or "teach them a lesson/show them the consequences of their actions".
LIFE DOES THAT^^^^ for them.
Don't use the "I"d just trying to detach/Not enable" excuse, to disguise the underlying emotional cause of you choosing 2 or 3, which is to manipulate them by withholding an asked for favor, i.e. to withhold the request by your w, which you admit it NOT a big deal for you.
Again, think about your goal....
what would doing either #2 or #3 show her about you, really?
PS
More or extra time with your kids, should usually be seen as a GIFT to you (not "From" her so much as "to you").
IF it comes at a bad time or your w waits til the last minute or just seems to be cake eating, we can cross that bridge when we get to it.
But for now, it's YOU and your kids having more time together. And it's a time when they need you more than ever.
Usually, more time with the kids is NOT something you want to whine about, but you'll know if/when the time comes to set firmer boundaries.
It sounds like I made the right decision. Writing out #2 and #3 felt good, but in my heart I knew that the kids and my time together is the most important.
This situation was the first time I felt real anger about what the S can do to the family. I feel like I am giving her all of the support of a M and good H even after the S. I did not see it as wanting to punish her until I read your response.
Basically my raw emotions were "You are f@$%ing with my job so you can get sleep and work on your things. If you had not left this would not have been a problem!"
I knew deep down what the correct answer was.
I know carry a bag with the DR book, 37 rules, my notes, and kindle with other self help books in it so I can turn to it when I need to.
The good thing about my job is that I am a partner/partial owner in the firm so I can work different hours if needed.
It is a very accommodating and understanding work place and two of my partners know my situation and are concerned about the W and I.
We have had partners take off 8 to 10 weeks to care for sick family members and I was offered what ever time off I required to help with my situation.
Our finances were never a problem, just the time commitment it takes when your are a partner.
My GAL activity this weekend to take my mind off of Valentines day is going to be making sausage. It is something I really enjoy and have not done in over a year or better.
When I did this before I would always deliver sausages to my family and hers. I plan on doing this again as I will have 20 plus pounds of sausage.
I am wrestling with whether or not I should deliver some to the W. She knows I am going to make it sometime because she took the book with the recipe and had to take a picture of it for me.
Would this violate the "no buying gifts" as outlined in the LRT?
Normally we would make them and cook up a couple the same day and then make tasting notes. Cooking is something we both really enjoyed and have a passion for.
If I do give her some, it will not be on Valentine's day.
I do not want them to be seen as a bribe or pursuing, but I really want her to have some. Why? Because I still have feelings for her and I know she really likes them.
Don't know if this is a bad move or not.
GoFo,
Making sausages on HVD?!! LOL
That's a first around here for sure! This gives a new meaning to "making sausages"--hmmmm.
I would suggest that you text W [or whatever communication method you two use] to ask if she would like a sausage. If yes, then ask how she would like to receive it? Let her make the choice. Do this without any expectations--after HVD.
do the kids like sausage? Maybe its for them, too or mostly...
Do Not pursue. Make the "No worries" clause very clear.
As in, you are detached from her sausage choice.
The more I read DR I see my situation differently. Just went back and reviewed Chapter 5 and I don't know if I should be doing LRT or not.
I know what broke us was my stress and commitment to work, her changing job and Doctoral studies, possible mild MLC for W, and the loss of time we had for each other. During the last 5 months we were together I was broken emotionally and spiritually and she was reaching out to me for love and support but I did not see it. I hated myself.
During Thanksgiving weekend I was basically paralized by stress. She kept asking me to do something but I felt trapped by my job and could not go or do anything, basically on call or at work from 18 hours a day 7 days a week. It was a bad project. I told her in anger and depression "I was like this before you married me and this is how I am and will be" or something to the like. I do not remember this incident or my remarks. All I remember is she said if I was not comfortable at home maybe I should go to work. She then said that when the door closed something broke inside of her.
I feel completely different, have a bounce in my step, and find myself being upbeat and optimistic again. All while in the middle of the S. The S has also knocked a ton of sense into me and showed me instantly what is important to me.
Her mom and dad moved 40 miles North of us and we do not see them as much as we had earlier in our R, and she does not see them as much as she wishes. There were multiple times off and on over the R where I was not enjoying myself when visiting her family or I would say that we needed to be home instead of staying the night and enjoying ourselves. I realize now how dumb I was, but the last year and a half I was better when visiting.
If we were not S, I would plan on hauling all of the stuff to make sausages out to their house, make them as a family, and then cook some for dinner.
Sausage making was a tradition in her family. We are both from mainly European decent and it is very important to us. We have had multiple talks on how sad it is that traditions have been lost in our families.
My father grew up making wine and other traditional Italian foods in his family. Her father is Basque and moved from Spain to the US when he was 17, so she grew up making sausages and other traditional foods. We both want to create and continue some of these traditions.
Where I am confused is that she is a WAW and the book says I should be doing the LRT.
When reading and identifying 180s I need to do, having a sausage making night with her family would cover a lot of the issues we have had in the past.
I just don't know if LRT is correct or not when I was basically shut down and ignoring her needs and wants for the past 5 months.
I know that asking about/planning the event would fall into pursuing which also violates LRT.
Just confused about my plan of attack when a 180 goes against LRT.
Could you perhaps plan to make the sausages and invite her family to join you? They have the option to join but if they decline, you're making them anyway.
Oh the roller coaster of emotions. Just got a text that W will be moving her stuff on Monday. Her stuff being some bedroom furniture and couches that she does not really need because the house she is staying in 70% furnished.
Before she left she mentally had divided some of our assets, so I know she planned on grabbing this stuff. I took the fact that it was not moved as a good sign.
The items are nothing that either of us really need, they are items from a spare bedroom.
I know I should not believe any of what I hear and less than 50% of what I see, but it still stings.
I am contemplating my response.
My head tells me I should just reply with "OK".
My heart wants to say something like "If you feel this in something you need to do, OK."
Just don't know what a productive response would be. I want to express displeasure, but with her being a WAW I doubt she cares what I feel about her taking the furniture.
Where I am confused is that she is a WAW and the book says I should be doing the LRT.
SLOW DOWN. Take a breath. Now, do that again, the breath thing. You need to process this more.
This approach to marriages in crisis, is based on the philosophy and books of MWD. But it's Not a code book or "Book of laws and regulations".
Nor is the "diagnosis" of your wife, (summing her up in an acronym) necessarily accurate or correct OR unchangeable.
Most people do not fit neatly into these boxes that we create. Most people change.
Oh sure, We tell ourselves that our spouse is "textbook" 'MLCer' or "WAW", b/c we want to simplify things.
We so crave clarity that we sometimes decree things that are simply NOT that clear cut.
Nor is the book to be "obeyed." Don't be mindlessly compliant. Make sure the words apply to your situation and be flexible and open about being wrong. OR about her changing and evolving and you too....evolve, grow.
CHANGE...it's the one constant in a healthy person....Changing, growing, evolving.
When reading and identifying 180s I need to do, having a sausage making night with her family would cover a lot of the issues we have had in the past.
The sausage making MAYBE should be as you suggest. But please know this.
NO single gesture and No one sentence, is going to fix this. Or "Cover a lot of issues".
This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Do you understand the meaning of that sentence?
I just don't know if LRT is correct or not when I was basically shut down and ignoring her needs and wants for the past 5 months.
I know that asking about/planning the event would fall into pursuing which also violates LRT.
Just confused about my plan of attack when a 180 goes against LRT.
Maybe you can list here what you think YOU need to do (as in, 180s).
Then tell us what the 180 is supposed to demonstrate (more time with family, for instance).
Then tell us what SHE has said or done, in reaction to your efforts, thus far.
Then maybe we can better assist you.
Oh the roller coaster of emotions. Just got a text that W will be moving her stuff on Monday. Her stuff being some bedroom furniture and couches that she does not really need because the house she is staying in 70% furnished.
Before she left she mentally had divided some of our assets, so I know she planned on grabbing this stuff.
interesting wording here^^^. She told you ahead of time that she was going to get things and it happens to be things you don't use anyhow.
Why say "grabbing" when you know she needed some things AND had told you so? The word suggests her being greedy. Did you mean that?
And are you really in a position to tell her what she needs in HER place?
Besides, I doubt she plans on remaining there forever, so the "70% furnished" is not really relevant to her, long term. I think your perspective needs to be a bit fairer. Otherwise you'll paint yourself as a victim at every turn.
And the tragedy of that is that even when it's true, it makes the LBSer look Less attractive. Victims are not appealing to be around, sad as that is to say.
I took the fact that it was not moved as a good sign.
You read into it.^^^. How is that "reading into" working for you?
The items are nothing that either of us really need, they are items from a spare bedroom.[/b
Again you are deciding FOR her, what SHE needs. If the things are important to you, discuss that with her. Choose your battles wisely.
I know I should not believe any of what I hear and less than 50% of what I see, but it still stings.
[b]
I am contemplating my response.
What is there to respond to? Just her appointment time?
She just gave you an "FYI", and it was courteous of her. That may seem weird to say, but SOME WASs just show up and "grab", whereas your w had told you ahead of time and now is confirming when...
if I were you and IF you are worried about what she is "Grabbing", then be there and go out and DO something fun that night...
If not, then do something really fun that day instead of seeing her off.
Don't forget that each night she has to look around "her" place and things do sink in. No need to keep pressuring her.
To reiterate, the more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.
Stop giving her a reason for cementing in her choices to leave. Give her some thinking space.
My head tells me I should just reply with "OK".
My heart wants to say something like "If you feel this in something you need to do, OK."
GO WITH THE HEAD. She knows how you feel. Stop telling her. Please listen to us.
Just don't know what a productive response would be.
SIGH...there is no "Productive response". There are neutral fact based responses and ones that make things worse. Your wording clearly indicates that you EXPECT something to come of what you tell her. That is a mistake.
The only thing I KNOW around here, is that some words HARM YOUR CHANCES, making things worse, whereas no single act or wording will solve it.
Though we cannot advise you as to what will "cure" the situation, we CAN tell you what will hurt it. As you have heard many times...
This is a "marathon, not a sprint".
Now, What does that^^^ sentence mean to you?
I want to express displeasure, but with her being a WAW I doubt she cares what I feel about her taking the furniture.
Do you think "expressing displeasure" is going to help you in ANY way? "Expressing displeasure" sounds like a priority to you. Was it always?
Can you see how you are, in effect, making the act of criticizing your w, a priority for you? Do you think that will help her see you as a great lifelong partner?
But obviously It's only going to make things worse. You act as if she does not know how you feel, but she does. We all do.
Repeating yourself is more of the old you. Telling her, again, that you are not agreeing with her, serves zero purpose UNLESS you want to annoy her.
Start at least acting as if you have had an awakening...
b/c the only way your wife will return to this marriage, IS IF
she believes marriage to you can be better/different from before.
How are you SHOWING her that?
(Not saying, but showing her with action)??
Here are the "Rules". I've highlighted a few for you. HOWEVER, please KNOW:
Rules are not "rules". They are guidelines. NOT ALL apply to all situations. Be discriminating in your use of them..
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.)
Show self-respect and self confidence. It's attractive, & good for your self esteem.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" & have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Do not pout (& be aware of appearing to).
Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. ***You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse***.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you!
Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say, is nothing.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever, and truly feel desperate & needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them. (Also applies to #30).
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last, and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
38. Know that in time, you will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.
39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.
40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is “Now & from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past. Let go of what you cannot control, which is a lot. It’s so freeing.
This is golden advice 25yearsmlc has given you. I wish I implemented this sooner in my situation. It sounds simple but the work is hard. Took me several months before really understood it.
This is a learning process and the lessons are tough. That last one is great!
40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is “Now & from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past. Let go of what you cannot control, which is a lot. It’s so freeing.
180s I need to do:
- make family a priority over my work
- make time/plan things for us to do - like go to dinner, weekends away, etc.
- listen to when she talks and not give solutions, be emotionally invested in her feelings and life
- be a comforting father to our kids
- spend time doing things with my friends
- make my family and wife my primary job I focus on doing the best at
180s supposed to demonstrate:
- I don't know who I am
- Some of the issues in our M she has stated are:
- I was not there emotionally
- Did not enjoy time spent with her family
- No Romance
- No Date Nights
- No Affection - stopped kissing just to kiss, little to no non-sexual affectionate contact
- Made her nervous when disciplining kids - I had a short fuse for quite a while
- Ignored her, dismissed her opinions/thoughts/ideas
- Do not connect well with her emotionally
- She does not want to live with a roommate - I was doing the majority of the housework while working 70 plus hours a week thinking it was showing love and support (now know this was not what she needed)
- Did not share about my work or stress - tried to be a superman and act like I was doing well so I would not stress her out (now know this did the opposite of what I thought it would)
What she has said or done:
Two weeks into the S, I wanted to take her out for a Saturday night, I said to have fun, and it was honestly my intention. We had not had fun together in a long time. She accepted on a Wednesday. When Saturday came she had an Uncle in town and wanted to go to dinner with him and her family, I was invited but she did not want me there. When I asked why she accepted the date she said that she thought I was not going to stop asking so she better go with me.
About 3 weeks in, we were filling out our calendars and I told her I wanted to take her to lunch on a Wednesday and on a date on a Friday that was 1 week away. She said she did not want to go. When the kids were asleep I asked why no lunch date and she said she did not want to go. She said she was done and wanted a divorce, and her face was angry. I remained polite and calm. We talked a little about us and a little about what happened, but it clearly was causing her pain. It degraded into a heated argument and ended awkwardly.
We agreed on 90% of what was wrong with our R and M but where we go from there was a big difference in opinion. She told me that she wanted a divorce and would have already talked to a lawyer but was waiting for me to get through my emotions. After this I found the DR website the next day and ordered the book.
We had been having dinner together as a family 1 or 2 times a week, this was the last time we did it. This was January 26th.
After reading books I realize that I had underestimated the depth of her hurt and pain. I now know what she meant by saying it was more that the last 6 months, but she is also rewriting our R history.
She has taken most of her clothes, some decorations, cookbooks etc. Now on Monday she wants to gather some other furniture. Knowing who she is, she had planned taking the furniture long ago and wants to do it to complete her plan.
Up until our blow up we had actually talked a little about the M and I thought it was therapeutic. After reading DR, I went into the LRT. At times I text or ask her about her classes, cross country skiing, give her compliments about her looks, etc. Things I would have done that stopped during my stressed out times that broke us.
I realize this is an eagerness and I need to be patient. When I read the DR and other books I get into the parts that deal with reconciliation and get excited and motivated.
25
Thanks for laying it out for me. My emotions grab me and I turn here to vent, helps me cool down and focus.
When reading back what you wrote, I laughed at what I wrote in the previous post.
With #30 and #31 above; I want to always how she is doing emotionally with her work and doctorate. But with this not being common in the last 6 months it must seem like pursuing.
As far as rule #1, my kids solidified this concept for me last night.
I was explaining to my oldest that when he whines and cries about things he wants or does not like that it makes people not want to give him what he wants.
All of the sudden a light bulb went off and bang it was easy to understand rule #1 for me.
In reading back, it sounds like empathy is a big issue for me. I know it has been an issue for me before in my life, worked on it some in the M, but it must have slipped.
I need to figure out a 180 to help me with empathy.
She also told me she was happy I was working on myself, but it is too late. This was early on and must have felt like salt in the wounds.
I heard from others that she knows I have been changing, but doesn't think it will last. This makes me think she assumes I am trying to bribe her back into the R.
One of the most hurtful remarks was that she sees herself as someone I can contact when/if I get married again to ask for R advice.
She also told me she was happy I was working on myself, but it is too late. This was early on and must have felt like salt in the wounds.
I heard from others that she knows I have been changing, but doesn't think it will last. This makes me think she assumes I am trying to bribe her back into the R.
One of the most hurtful remarks was that she sees herself as someone I can contact when/if I get married again to ask for R advice.
From what I've come to understand here, that sentiment is "normal". Sustained changes take time to believe in. If you choose to try and stay M to her, you will need to understand that demonstrating a "new you" could take a while. I'm not even going to try and say what "a while" is. I don't know.
Oh, and something we are all learning in this place when we're new at it...go do something else. She walked away from you, return the favor (I'm really paraphrasing the sentiment).
Go keep improving yourself, not to win her back, but just because it makes sense. Ever wonder how the jerky guys seem to get the girls...its because they don't care....then they get chased. Walk away...really walk away...don't be a jerk about it...just don't care so much. Trust me, I'm having to learn this the hard way.....
This is golden advice 25yearsmlc has given you. I wish I implemented this sooner in my situation. It sounds simple but the work is hard. Took me several months before really understood it.
This is a learning process and the lessons are tough. That last one is great!
40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is “Now & from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past. Let go of what you cannot control, which is a lot. It’s so freeing.
thanks for the kind words Mariner. Just want to mention that the words "from this day forward" are in many wedding vows.
I now see that as pretty brilliant and way more significant than I realized before.
If we live it, it really truly helps. I also accept that my h and I will Not see our past the same. I fretted over that for a long time. Probably b/c of my focus on "fairness" and what I perceived as having self respect.
I struggled for a long time with this. Finally I realized what mattered is agreeing on our future together. And letting go...
I never associated the whole "from this day forward" statement, but I really do like it. In my core I also am someone who believes in admitting ones errors when discovered and correcting what is wrong, both professionally and personally. Too bad it has taken a S to make me realize my issues/problems.
I was reading other threads and read a suggestion from LITB to read the "developing detachment" article from the livestrong website.
It is pretty eye opening as there are lots of issues I see with needing to detach from my job, it takes way too many emotions out of me and has too much control of my life.
What I also realized is that I think when my wife said she broke she became emotionally detached with me. Looking back with some clarity I could notice some increased coldness after this point.
Is it common for a WAW to become detached from the LBS? The article along with some of the comments from my wife seem to make me think that she has become detached.
I know I am supposed to be lovingly detached from the my WAW, but what kind of situation does it put us in if we are both detached?
Go,
Yes, your wife is detached from you - it's a self protection mechanism for her heart. To be frank, she doesn't even like you very much right now. Could you imagine someone you don't like, and aren't remotely attracted to, asking you for dates and explanations of your feelings? It would repulse you even more.
You must understand this, what she's feeling inside, in order to make the right moves going forward. I know it seems hopeless, but in fact it isn't. Statistically, men have much more success winning back WAWs than women do winning back a husband that's checked out. Why? I have no idea, but there is hope. You are the father of her children, so you are the logical choice for her as a husband. Unfortunately, her emotions right now are encouraging her to shut off and flee, believing in her heart that there is no hope for your M to work. She feels that you will never change (long term) and that she will never be able to love you again.
Your mission is to slowly give her the hope that she lacks- hope that you ARE changed, hope that if she returned it could work. Have you heard the concept of the love bank (or love tank)? You must start making little deposits into her tank by doing the things that mean the most to her. Slowly at first, more over time. Don't make a big deal about it, don't draw attention to it. Just plug away. You hope to get her to go from disliking you to feeling neutral. Then maybe a little positive towards you. This is when hope will enter her heart.
In my case I did this for a year and a half. She was still bent on leaving, but she had hope it could work. When it finally came down to decision time, she acted on the hope that she could love me again for the sake of our children (even though she still didn't at the time) and gave us one more try. That's the point where I ramped up my love bank deposits big time. I'm happy to say that, for me, it worked and she is very much in love again.
It was the hardest thing I even had to endure. There were times I felt despair and wondered if I was wasting my time. There were days I felt like giving up. I made mistakes. In the end, however, I kept plugging away, day by day. I did all that I could to keep hope alive in my heart, believing that I was the right man for my W and that I could change.
What are your wife's greatest emotional needs? What can you do to meet them?
-hs
Yes, your wife is detached from you - it's a self protection mechanism for her heart. To be frank, she doesn't even like you very much right now. Could you imagine someone you don't like, and aren't remotely attracted to, asking you for dates and explanations of your feelings? It would repulse you even more.
^^^THIS!^^^ LBS's make a HUGE mistake when they assume that after BD they should really turn on the charm and pursuit, they think it's a 180 because it wasn't happening before BD. While it may indeed be a 180, it is a 180 that will backfire in spectacular fashion for the very reasons Hopeful stated. The WAS is in a totally different frame of mind than the LBS. This is why we say DB'ing is counterintuitive, our mind is telling us to pursue but the more we pursue the more repulsed the WAS becomes. It makes us look needy and desperate, and no one finds that attractive.
Hopeful
Thanks for the response. When describe the journey she needs to take emotionally it makes sense. I even smiled at the stats that WAW return back to M more than WAH.
I assume that I need to detach so that her emotions don't take me on a ride. If detached I can still love her and allow her to make decisions that she needs to without it effecting me.
Kind of like loving a family member with addiction issues, I have a brother who has struggled with this. I love him but do not allow his decisions to change my life. I am happy for him when he is doing good but do not allow his highs and lows to change my life.
Love Bank, was that a John Gray concept or MWD from DR? I get my books and concepts confused, but yes I know the concept and will review it multiple times to commit it to memory.
As far as her emotional needs? She needs to feel loved, respected, accepted, like she is her own unique self. She was the giver in the relationship and I was the taker. I need to remain patient and find the opportunities to make deposits in these areas. Our communication needs to open up more, but I will wait.
This is just the start, I am going to read the 5 Love Languages to see what else I can come up with as far as emotional needs.
What can I do to meet them? Support her and the decisions she wants to make. STFU and listen if she starts to open up to me. I also need to explore more ways to meet her needs.
She has planned on taking more furniture to her place and I just held my tongue and said "Okay". Yesterday she also emailed me about a work trip to Canada in June. My response was genuine in that I was happy she was getting some benefit out of her extra effort at work and that "Banff is supposed to be pretty".
Gray, Chapmen and Harley. The latter was the easiest for me to identify with. The needs that they explain are more specific than the ones that you have identified- I'd look at their explanations to see what may be lacking.
Do some reading and see what resonates for your situation. Good way to spend Valentine's day!
Hs
Is there a list of recommended books to read? I could not find one on the forum anywhere.
Here is my list of the books that I have read.
Started with John Gray when I thought it was just a communication issue.
- Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus
- Why Mars & Venus Collide
- Mars and Venus Starting Over
- What You Can Feel You Can Heal
Then went to other books about repairing issues in marriages:
- Divorce Remedy - by Michele Weiner-Davis
- I Love You, But I'm Not In Love With You - by Andrew G. Marshall
- Winning Your Wife Back Before It's Too Late - by Dr. Gary Smally and Deborah Smally
Still reading
- Getting Back Together - by Bettie Young, PhD & EdD and Masa Goetz, PhD
Next on the reading list is:
-The 5 Love Languages - by Gary Chapman
I find it good that the DR and most of the other books about repairing or saving marriages all have some of the same methods. A couple even sighted the DR. The methods must produce results.
I think DB produces results. I don't know the stats but I'm one of them. I can say, with utter certainty, I'd be divorced if I had not had my DB coach or this site. Period.
But when you read all those books, it's easy to confuse the strategies and approaches. IF their approaches are truly similar, then great, it's no biggie.
But MANY of those writers/books are NOT similar to DBing. So You may have to choose ONE approach only, b/c how can you measure results or monitor if you are mixing it up?
Just bear that in mind, but otherwise I think you're doing some good work.
Keep making it about YOUR WORK and stay in your sandbox. Why?
B/C
1) you only control YOU, so all your efforts at "fixing" her, will backfire;
and
2) it's not your job to fix her. It's your job to support her and be YOUR best self;
and
3) Finally, Your w is not here trying to save the m. You are. So nothing about what she has to do, or should do, or might do,
is relevant HERE. Make sense?
Keep at it!
The MIL kind of pulled a fast one yesterday. I called them and went to there house to deliver sausages and had a glass of wine and sat and talked to her and my FIL for a while. All of the sudden the MIL says "oops the W is here, is that a problem?" I say no, it will be fine.
The W had no idea I was there either and her mom did not tell her. I think the MIL thought she could "trick" us into having and evening with each other, which was nice thought on her part, but far from what happened.
W comes in with kids and I was going to stay and eat some dinner when after about 45 minutes she asks to talk to me in the garage.
She is upset and pissed because I was there and she thought I was doing it to hurt her etc. She is made because she I never would have just hung out on a Saturday at her parents house. She was very emotional.
I just remained calm and told her that I wanted to deliver sausages and have a chat with her parents because I had not seen them in 2 months. Told her that I understand why she would be upset, but it had nothing to do with her. I didn't let her emotions pull me into an argument or ruin my evening.
I told her I would leave if she was feeling uncomfortable, and calmly left their house.
I think the 180s and my GAL are working as I am feeling better about my decisions and what I am doing. I remained calm and did not participate in a fight or get overly emotional. I told her I can understand how she is upset, but my actions had nothing to do with her; which was the truth.
She sent me text later apologizing for her emotional outburst, but I went along with my planned evening and had a great time.
The detachment part has been hard, but after yesterday I think I am farther along into it than I thought I was.
I need to keep reminding myself that this is a marathon, not a sprint. This even applies to my emotions and working through them.
Even though I have made progress in my detachment, I still have a ways to go. When I talk and think about our situation I continue to believe that she will be back.
Is holding onto hope like this something I need to work through?
I assume that I should not be thinking/feeling this about our marriage because I cannot control the W and I should not be reading into her feelings.
I think I am telling myself a lie when I feel this hope for us. I have noticed even around the house certain things I won't change because I keep thinking "she will be back". These are just minor things.
Who is to know if the W will want to work on our M. I need to lovingly detach so I will be okay with me and my feelings regardless of the outcome from our S.
When reviewing my thread and the book I noticed that most of my 180s are all focused on fixing me to fix relationship issues. I need to work on fixing me to fix me, not just to try and repair the M.
Can there be an issue of working too hard on things? I get overly committed and involved in things I care about. I think I keep reading and working so hard that I am replacing my commitment at work with my commitment to work on me saving my M.
I need to 180 this and realize I cannot control the pace of progress. Unfortunately even though I know it is not the truth; I feel like every decision I make is life or death and that I need to be working on this constantly.
I need to learn to accept failures and setbacks and understand that I am not perfect, no one is.
I need suggestions on how to deal with stress. I started yoga at nights and exercising which works a little bit, but want some other options. Maybe something to do in my office when I get overwhelmed.
The problem is my job is still really stressful and with what is going on with the S, it just adds to it.
In previous times I would talk about my work and my stress with the W.
Over the last half year I internalized my stress, become basically depressed and unemotional, which was a big cause in our separation. Now my stress coping skills are gone.
The only vocal outlet that I have is my parents because they understand what is going on with my M and the W and I. It helps but it is just not the same as when I could talk with my loving W about it. They are getting older and are happy to emotionally support me, but they are worried about the W and I and our kids. And I worry about the stress on them.
It is hard to blow off steam when I had possibly cost a client $5 million dollars and had an empty house to return too. That was 6 weeks ago, but my stress still boils over every now and then.
Hi Gogofo
I wanted to do respond to you as your situation reminds me a lot of my own. My WAW left in December 2012 though, so I’ve had more time.
I think you’re facing this very well and seeking support from a healthy place. Keep doing that. I haven't written much on this site, but I’ve read it a lot and am inspired and helped by the messages of the vets. I’m very grateful that people like 25, MrBond, Labug and Sandi2 exist in this world and are so generous.
In response to your last post:
- There is always hope. I can’t think of any situation that is hopeless. Holding on to hope isn’t wrong and, even if we don’t get what we think we want, I don’t believe it’s desirable to work towards being cynical or dismissive of hopefulness. So we work because we are hopeful and we trust in positive thinking.
- A great revelation for people who like to control things is that while we can’t control other people we can control how we respond to any situation presented to us & it’s best (including for us) to respond constructively and with love/kindness. I see this akin to physical fitness and like going for a run, it takes time to get fitter & you can allow yourself to be lazy and regress too. A patient response is very difficult, but so are most virtues. I don’t think it’s even patience if you get things when you want them. Training for a marathon takes work. So does building mental attitude fitness.
- I really relate to the 'fully committed' approach you have. It can be a source of great success. You seem to be a highly diligent and committed person & that’s attractive (so I’m told). The darkside is can also become ‘cultish’ and the source of many problems, especially a loss of perspective of the “bigger picture”/awareness of alternative points of view or the fact that we don’t have perfect information. I’ve found that while I want to continue to be a committed person, I want to ensure that's coupled with being able to moderate myself for my own happiness and any future partner (hopefully my WAW). We don’t have complete information about how or what our WAW is thinking or feeling and we need to respect their journey and decisions, including the pace of those. Good things take time. It’s so easy to forget that when so much in modern life encourages compulsive behaviour.
- Don’t be too hard on yourself; or too serious. You’re doing well in an extremely difficult situation. Keep smiling!
Buddy
GoFo,
Stress is of our own construct. You are your own prisoner. What active steps can you do at work to de-stress? Break them down in manageable action steps, some can delegate to other people, prioritize them on a to-do list.
It is hard to blow off steam when I had possibly cost a client $5 million dollars
How did this come about? What transpired prior, during and after the interaction with client? What did you learn from this? What would you have done differently if you had to do this all over?
Thanks for the insight Wonka. Never considered that stress was created by me.
I will have to take some time and delve deep into the questions you pose and do some inner searching.
Do you have a therapist, counselor?
labug
No I do not. I have been considering looking for one, but the small community I live in presents challenges in even finding someone close or qualified.
Also I will admit I am hesitant about finding one because I always have been someone who thinks they can learn how to do things through books and other resources.
I will have to give outside help a serious thought though.
I will say that as much as I'm the type of person who thinks I can learn it on my own as well, I've found that going to a counselor has been beneficial for me. It's nice to get feedback from an 'independent' person and also someone else to share your story with. I never thought of myself as the type of person to ever go to a counselor (of course, I never thought I'd be in this situation either). I would recommend it.
Yesterday the W called and showed up at my work with our taxes to sign. Had a neutral talk about taxes and I decided to try to make some love bank deposits.
Asked about her classes and the next round of papers/assignments she has to complete and offered support with kids to allow her more time if needed. Trying to decrease her stress. I never talked once about me, my job, or how I feel.
Finally I have been working on some communication skills so I sent a follow up text thanking her for taking "HER" time to take care of taxes. It was a fairly neutral thank you, but I emphasized that she took her personal time to get them done. Time had been an issue with her and I and our schedules; also I have been trying to hit her love languages as I learn more about them.
I now know that one comment or action will not fix us, so I am slowly hoping to make love bank deposits when possible. Not trying to force conversation either, just feeling the natural flow of the interaction and working with it.
Right now I realize that neutral interactions are helpful to our situation. Baby steps...
Now it is time for the second hurdle of the month. The 25th is the W's birthday and I feel a little conflicted about what to do or not to do. Five weeks ago when she was upset she said she did not want to do valentine's day or her birthday. I respected her decision about valentine's day, with the help of the forum, and did not do anything for her.
Now two weeks later it is her birthday and I have some of the same feelings, but not as strong. I go back and forth between respecting her by not doing anything and wanting to give her a simple birthday card.
I understand that if the card was all lovey it would be a turn off, but on the other had I feel if I do nothing it may hurt our situation. I am going to make a card with our kids for her, but just don't know about what I should do.
To test the water for her birthday I sent a text to her yesterday hoping she enjoys her trip out of town. No response from her, but I am not surprised. Communication still has not improved, but not much time has passed by and the text did not really warrant a response.
I will see her on Sunday to exchange the kids again, on our original schedule we had a family dinner planned but I highly doubt that is going to happen.
Maybe the card from the kids will suffice as being from me also, even though I will not sign it.
The birthday will be tough for me and I assume for her as they were always an excuse to get both families together and have a large dinner that her and I would cook. I doubt she will do it this year as she is out of town the next two weekends.
Sometimes I think too much.
The good part is that right now I feel better about the situation than I did around valentine's day. I have been pinpointing problems with myself and working on them, not beating my self up as bad as I was before, and even loving myself and looking back on the marriage I can see things that I would want her to change also, not just me doing all the changes.
After rereading through my thread and thinking about it, the reason I want to give her a card is I want her to know that I love her.
With her being a WAS I doubt she cares right now if I love her or not, all she cares about is how she feels.
I think she knows I love her, it is just that the limited contact it is a different dynamic for us.
I have had an awakening on how to better communicate and be a better me that I am anxious to show off... But back to the waiting.
Marathon not sprint...
Just did the kids swap with the W and feeling a little emotional.
Found out that my grandma has LGL Leukemia this week, plus swapping kids around, plus being sick overnight with little sleep has the emotions hitting me a little hard today.
Discussion with wife was neutral. I told her about my grandma and got a little emotional, don't know who could not have though. She discussed what she has been doing and has her life planned out through April. I'm not going to lie, it hurts to hear her talk about her future without any plans that include me.
Going to leave the house and help my dad with his new tv so I can take my mind off of the sitch.
Back to the wait...
Sorry to hear about your Grandma.
Your wife's birthday - whatever ties into your situation at the moment. If you see your wife or pass by her home or work in the natural course of your day then go with a simple card. Just a "happy birthday, I hope you enjoy your day" or something similar. If she's not around when you pass by her home or work, drop it off and move on. If you have to make an effort to deliver a card, skip it and shoot her a text instead. As for the kids, take them to the shop and have the eldest choose a card or find some paint and make one yourself with their handprints. Just keep it about the kids.
As for the plans without you, that's no fun at all. It took me a while to get past this point. Keep reminding yourself that her life is her life and your life is your life. You'll eventually get on with yours, you'll allow her to get on with hers and things will improve. Keep following the rules and do things for yourself. Three months ago, my wife wanted nothing to do with me and went out without notice. Today, I still have a long way to go but my wife is talking about my brother's wedding across the country next year.
Thanks BB, I did buy a card for the kids and did the whole hand print thing yesterday. Don't know why but my emotions are getting me today. Just wore out.
Tomorrow is another day, another day to be the best me I can be.
As far as the card, still on the fence but I may go and buy a simple card and give her well wishes as I would any friend.
Yesterday decided to do some clothes shopping. This is a 180 for me because at one time I remember my W getting upset that I did not buy a flannel shirt that was $8 because I did not think I would get $8 of worth/use out of it. I liked the shirt and after about 15 minutes of debate I decided not to buy it.
I am down about 40lbs since last year at this time and feel good about the way I look. At 6'2" and 185lbs I am looking the best I have in my entire life.
Buying clothes was great and made me excited. I used to hate the process because I was body conscious since about 10 years old. At only $111, I think I bought $1,000 worth of self esteem. I smiled at myself in the dressing room mirror and felt excited about the clothes.
Thursday I am picking the kids up for the evening to go to my Grandma's b-day celebration and I will be looking good in my new clothes! I am excited to spend the evening with my family and even have an Aunt coming in from California for the birthday.
I am pretty much beaming today, even thought it is the W's b-day, and feel good about myself.
This buying new clothes 180 was for me, and I can now understand how women feel when they buy clothes, etc. Clothes were always a necessity for me and the wife has slowly tried to show me how much better I look with better clothes but I never made the effort myself. I have never went clothes shopping on my own in the 9 years we were together, she was always the motivation behind me buying clothes.
My self esteem is higher right now that it has been in years! I know I look good, I feel even better, and I am going to ride this wave and let it inspire more 180s and GAL techniques for me.
Awesome post.
(My WAWs birthday today. I went with a small plain card from me & I also signed for our almost 2yo daughter. Message inside was short and sweet. Last year, prior DB and reading DR, I blew out and bought all sorts of things. I was desperate. This feels much better.)
Here's to 180s that last!
So I just got back from dropping kids off at Ws house, I picked them up from school and took them to my Grandma's birthday party. It was a nice evening with the family and my Grandma really loved the fact that the kids were there.
When I dropped the kids off I brought my good feeling self into the house and kept up my PMA. W and I had some small talk, told me about one of her professors calling her and telling her he was a little disappointed in her effort. I told her I hope he wasn't trying to break her spirit because she does not half ass anything, you know, trying to be supportive.
I asked her when her plane leaves on Saturday and said I would be at her place around 8 and she replies that she thought I was getting the kids on Friday not Saturday.
Our original schedule has me getting them on Saturday and I had plans to go out with my parents and aunt from out of town of Friday.
I tell her I had plans and she said she has to teach class that evening and her work winter party. So I tell her OK I will cancel my plans and get the kids because her work is important.
I was irritated at the moment, but didn't show it took much, but I am sure she noticed some disappointment on my face.
She said she would cancel her class, her students probably wouldn't mind, and not go to her work party.
Now this is where I thought, stay calm, and support her and her job. So I reiterate that "I will cancel my plans and take the kids, your job is important."
I don't know if this was the right move or not. Sometimes I feel that she is cake eating, but I love having the kids and I want her to know that I do support her. Also did not want to start an argument, and my job had dictated what her schedule was for the last 6 months we were together so I felt it is my turn now.
Good move or not?
I gave the kids tons of hugs and kisses and my oldest wanted to give me a "Card" which was a piece of mail he scribbled on. It was a bill so I couldn't take it and he was a little sad.
Then he runs into his room and brings me his Valentine's box he made at school and told me he made it for me and wanted me to have it. He was so proud of himself and grinning ear to ear.
I have never felt so much love like that in a long time. Made me choke up a little bit on my way out. Hell, I am still teary-eyed looking at it up on my dresser. Kids are the best.
Stop seeing everything as a plan or ploy. Just do what you want to do. If you want to have the kids, then do it. If you don't, then don't.
Bond
I don't think it was a plan or a switcheroo but they way I wrote it I could see how it could be interpreted that way.
I just need to remind myself that not every interaction, or decision made is life or death for the possibility of reconciliation.
I followed the advice given by 25yearsmlc on another thread and watched the TED talk by Shawn Achor. I was completely inspired and immediately read his book "The Happiness Advantage". This book and its teachings will be a big 180 for me and my personality.
When the W and I first met I was optimistic and future thinking and fun to be around. After 9 years of chasing success and perfection in my job, I killed most of the happiness in my life. I couldn't even find happiness while on vacation.
This decline was noticed by the W and was mentioned during our BD talks when she said that our situation was more than the last 6 months of stress. I think this was in part due to my stress and unhappiness with myself.
I based by happiness on finding success instead of letting my happiness bring success. I am now in the process of finding happiness independent of my career.
The person my W fell in love with was not stressed, sad, and pessimistic; I also miss that person and will be working to rediscover an even better version of him.
I tried to make everything perfect and overly stressed about too many things out of my control. The book has a lot of perspectives and activities to teach me how to be happy outside of by career and to lower my stress inside of my career.
I have had comments that recently I have looked happier and look like I have been enjoying life more. It is nice to hear while going through such a hard time. My aunt who was in town last week even mentioned I was doing better than she had imagined.
GOFO,
Just catching up here...and I'm really liking this ^^^^. Sounds like you have a plan in place to RECLAIM your true nature once again! Awesome!
Our oldest niece is going to have a birthday trip to a hot springs for some swimming and my SIL asked if our two kids can join them. W tells me she is going with them for the weekend. This is an event where the whole family would have been invited if it were not for our S. I was not present for this conversation, the W told me after the fact.
The SIL does not have any resentment towards me and I have even spent time hanging at their house with my nieces. I assume I have not got the invite because of the possible awkwardness with the W and I right now.
This is a trip has brought up various emotions in me.
First I am upset that I was not invited, it makes me mad/sad and makes me feel like I am being excluded from family events. The separation effects more than just the W and I. This is something I would like to be there for.
I would like to be there to enjoy the swimming with my kids and my nieces and their family. I know it would be enjoyable for all.
We had done the same trip two years ago and I seemed that the W did not like it. She has a slight aversion to water when people are splashing and her face/head gets wet or goes under water. Plus out youngest was 10 months old and screamed all night in the hotel room. He was hard on us, particularly his mom, until he was about 20 months old. Made me stressed and sad. He would just scream when he was upset, sometimes for hours on end. It wasn't until an argument around BD that she said she enjoyed the trip, I was flabbergasted.
I also feel that it would be a situation for the W and I to be together with the kids and she would see the improvements that I have made. Not spending enough time with her family was also an issue and this would cover that.
What [censored] is that I don't feel like I could tell her that I want to attend and be there with the kids and her family and have fun with them that weekend. This would be pursuing and also be dealing with how I feel, not how she feels.
I feel like if I expressed this it would be going against the DR technique and the 37 rules.
I want to go and want to express my feelings on this, but I don't want to create more issues with our situation. We have not had a discussion about us since Feb 15 (which was heated and explain earlier in the thread), and that was the only time since starting DB.
I am frustrated and don't know what to do. I also don't think there is a right or wrong answer.
I will probably have to address my feelings and work through them so I don't send any progress backwards. The trip may not matter in the whole big scheme of things.
I guess the best thing to do would be let the situation go by and hope that I will be missed. Maybe that will be better for our situation than hoping for a forced encounter so I can show off my improvements.
I get excited at my improvements and the changes I am making towards happiness and want to share them with my W. Little to no contact makes me anxious from time to time.
Not much has changed in my situation in the last 5 days or so. I have been reading and working on myself, but little to no interaction between the W and I.
The only interaction between us lately has been phone calls or text message exchanges that involve the kids or bills. We do not even see each other when swapping the kids around as one of us will drop them off at school and the other will pick them up.
Is this good or bad or neutral? Having no contact, besides kid stuff, I assume gives her space and time which I assume is valuable and the best thing for us during the S.
This just feels flat out weird. I could foresee this pattern of non-interaction lasting weeks or months. Again, just weird when we have been around each other for 9 years.
The idea now is to allow her to heal, and possibly miss me, and take the time to decide how she feels without feeling pressure from me. Correct?
Through 180s and working on myself, if I am becoming a person only a fool would leave how is the W going to notice?
Is the next possible natural progression to my situation going to be the W initiating more contact?
Giving her time and space and being patient is critical. It's also very difficult. I've been in the situation you're describing for 15 months. I'd like to hope your situation may move more quickly. On the other hand, "time is a gift". There is nothing fast about this. Over time, I have come to accept that for me, the time has been valuable. For the first 3 or 4 months, I didn't get the scale of this as I didn't want to. I wasn't DBing, I wasn't a good partner then (and prior - obviously). Time has helped me, and it will you too. I'd like to hope it would help your W too.
Now, after this time, I understand that the changes I make to improve are for me and that my old R is dead. I try not to dwell on, or pine for, what I've lost or losing. Instead I force my focus on my present and doing my best to make tomorrow better. On tough days, I focus on getting by hour-by-hour.
If I choose to stop standing, I want to be able to look back and say I tried my best. 2+ years doesn't seem that big to me in that context (despite the difficulties day to day).
Don't want to come across as a know it all gogofo. Your story and words move me & I want to support. Your doing everything right, just don't expect (or let the absence of) fast results dishearten you.
This weekend wife had to teach class again but my MIL was sick so she couldn't take the kids. I went over to get the kids from her house early on Saturday morning and we actually had more of a conversation than usual.
We talked about her work and her doctoral classes and her spring break that is this week.
Then she actually asked me a question for the first time in two months. She asked how my grandma was feeling. I know it wasn't a question about myself, but this is the first question about anything associated with me. It was something new for her.
Then this weekend she sent me an email with a link to a short movie from Spain, where her family is from, with the message "I thought you might like this." Again, the first "friendly" email in two months.
Then last night when I sent a text about how the kids were, her family has been sick along with the kids at day care and the W was sick too, she started to offer up some details about herself. She even sent me 8 pictures of the kids with the last one being a picture of her with our youngest asleep on her shoulder. Again, something new for her in the last two months. We had shared a couple pics of our kids, but none with ourselves in them.
On her last work trip she was supposed to meet a friend from college but was ditched. She also said she was "gone too long" which was rare to hear her say, especially for a 3 day trip.
Don't know if these changes will last or have anything to do with her last trip out of town. I think she may be thinking about our situation now and allowing some emotions to be felt.
I do realize that things can change today so I will just enjoy these different interactions as they were, different. Maybe in the future I can look back and see that it was the beginning of a change, but not getting hopes up.
I had an awesome weekend catching up with old friends and my brother to record a music video for a friends band. Good times and a great GAL weekend. I am just going to keep doing me.
Go,
Reading your thread has giving me some inspiration. I wouldn't wish anyone's situation on these boards on anyone but seeing someone like you trying so hard to GAL makes me feel good. Prayers to you and I hope someday, somehow we all can rejoice in the reconciliation of our M.
Duds, time has certainly helped me with the GAL process. The current situation is becoming the new normal, and making it easier to GAL. Still not completely familiar to me but I have spent the last 8 weeks slowly moving and advancing in GAL and my own work on myself.
Keep baby stepping these things and when you look back it adds up to some decent progress.
Sometimes coincidences are really surprising. I have been sick the last three days and last night I had a dream that my W came into my office and said she was moving back in, she wanted to end the separation. Talk about a little bit of a bummer when I woke up.
Well tonight I had a work meeting that lasted until 5:30 and when I went back to my office I see I had a missed call and a text message from the W. The text said "Do you want to come to dinner and see the kids, then we can talk?"
I called her back and she said that the kids were asking about me and she would cook us some dinner. This was the first invitation of any kind that she had extended since the second week into our separation. We had had two previous Sunday dinners together until be had a blow up.
The invitation was something new from her, but the words "then we can talk" made me nervous.
On the ride over I worked on my body language during the ride, smiling the whole time, and telling myself to act as if. I did not know if this was going to be a positive talk or a negative talk, so I would assume positive in my mind set.
Got to her house and sat down and chit chatted while she set up some dinner for us while one of the kids napped and the other was on the ipad.
We had dinner and made small talk for 2 and a half hours. She was really into sharing things about work and her doctoral classes. I used my new active listening skills that I have been practicing while she was talking. I was looking in her eyes the whole time, smiling, listening, and asking follow up questions, etc. I really did not have to fake it though as I truly was interested.
I was coughing the whole time and she even offered cough drops, which she never would have early into the separation.
It was really an enjoyable evening for both as we talked and laughed and she even asked a couple questions of me and a little about my work. Again something new for her since BD.
I ended the night as I am sure I could still be there and putting the kids down, but I wanted to get out when we were still doing well in our interaction. Leave her wanting more or at least feeling good about what happened tonight. The kicker is when I left she said she would let me out of the garage and when she came to the door we had the closest body interaction since our last dinner and her body language was not closed off and cold as it had previously been.
I got a little anxious and thought I might get a hug, but I did not wait around for it or initiate it. Again, she was going to have to initiate the contact. I left the garage and she watched me get in my truck as the door went down. She had not done this since BD, and I had been letting myself out since BD.
This was the best most open interaction we have had since BD, and she initiated the visit. I do not know if the kids were asking about me, they are not really that way yet, but I don't care if they did or it was her excuse. We had a positive interaction instead of a neutral one. I don't know if she wanted to have a "talk" or just BS tonight, but BS is what we did for the first time in 6 plus months.
This is by far the biggest baby step so far and I will fall asleep tonight smiling. Trying not to get too excited by this, but tonight felt good.
Yay. This is good. Onward and upward
Awesome. By all means celebrate it by yourself. It's back to business when you next interact with her.
Great baby step. Eagerly awaiting our next post. Good luck
Wow, really exiciting night for you. Celebrate the win but the others are right, its back to business next time or you could end up with expectations. I had a similar night recently and the next time I saw W was distant again.
Celebrate the baby step though!
I did feel good last night, but do not have expectations for the future. This may be the last interaction we have with each other. I am just working on enjoying experiences for what they are and not projecting them onto future actions.
One of my 180s is to find enjoyment in every situation, good, bad, imperfect, or miserable. I am doing exercises and I think they are starting to work.
Gogofo well what can I say, I read that and I am crying like a baby hehehe, you deserve it completelly and do you know why? Because man you are accepting, you had GAL because of yourself and you accept her no matter what without judging her and you see? The universe brings you new things , you are doing fine and you will do fine, dont focus in what I should or not do focus in accepting yourself and knowing that whatever you do and however you take this it will be fine, meanwhile keep working on yourself...
I strongly believe that when we accept, the S its able to feel and see that and thats when they start to die to spend time with us.
Congrats and keep doing what you doing
Started new thread and added an update from this afternoon. Please follow my progress using the link below for the thread "She Left - 2". Thanks
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2437794#Post2437794