I may have done too much - DivorceBusting.com

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Hi all,

So, new here. Wife dropped the bomb about 3weeks ago. Although had told me she was unhappy about 1month ago.

Together for 11 years, married for 7 1/2.
no kids, two dogs, 2cats.
We have a house we bought together, with a mortgage.
In May, we tried to have a kid, and she had a miscarriage, her first. It hit her hard.

So, here's my story, hoping I have not already blown it since I have broken many of Sandi's rules.

I had a since something was up with my wife back in December, and I asked what was wrong. She said she was unhappy. She seemed it at the time. She said she did not feel like I liked her as a person. She felt she had given up a lot of herself, things she was interested in, like playing music, hanging out with her friends, and going out. I asked at the time, if she loved me, she said she did, I asked if she was still in love with me, she said she did not know. That she wanted some space to figure it all out, and would talk to a counselor, although at the time she did not want to. I told her then, that I did love her, and like her, and I would be there.

I was blown out of the water by this, and scared I was losing her. That she did not know I liked her as a person, and that she did not know if she was still in love with me, crushed me. I ended up not going to work that day. It was too much for me to try and focus. It was her day off, so I said I would give her space and go do some things, chores. I am very close with my mother, and I called her because I was so upset and did not know what to do. She told me to go home, that while she wanted space, I had just left her home alone, upset and hurting. So I did. I told my W I would try to give her that space, and pretended everything was ok. I could not help but notice that she was starting to keep her cell with her even to bed, and had changed her Facebook, so I could not see everything. I think I caused that a little, because I had also been posting stuff to her wall, loving pictures and messages.

So the days went by, we work opposite schedules, I work nights and she works mornings, both full time. So we don't see each other much. Pretending was relatively easy. However I don't like space, and felt like it was growing. I always have tucked her in with a kiss at night, when I got home. She said I was looking over her, I was, I was trying to see if I could read her expressions, I could not. I started to feel like something more was going on. Her family has an event we go to every year before Christmas, a holiday thing. It was awkward because I felt like they knew something was up. Then we had Christmas at her moms house, and mine parents the day after. It was very awkward at hers. Again, they were not talking to me much, and it felt like they knew something.

After the holidays, I asked if she had started seeing a counselor, she had not, but was going to. Soon after, like Jan2, I something did not feel right. I started snooping, I found a brand new piece of lingerie in her drawer. A day or so later, we had a blizzard. She said corporate was closing all her stores, but that she had a meeting to go to like an hour away. The night before the meeting, she said she was going to bring a change of clothes, to change into once she got there. Kind of made sense, with the snow. But after she went to bed, I noticed the lingerie was gone. The morning of, I asked her not to go, that I thought it was a bad decision. She said she had to and wanted to. When she got home late that night, not normal. I asked her like 20questions, what did she do, where did the meeting happen, etc. Then I asked if she was having an affair. I told her we should do marriage counseling, she said she wanted to see a counselor alone again, so she could sort this out, and did not want to say something to me she might regret. She said she was not. After she went to bed, I looked in her car and found the lingerie.

I waited a few days, but now I was in full snooping mode. A few days later, I was looking for a lighter in her jacket (after she was asleep), and found a pregnancy test that was positive. One of those digital ones, that said she was 1-2 weeks along. We had not been intimate for about 1 1/2 months at that point. I went to her car, and found more test all saying the same. She was pregnant, but not by me. I was kind of relived, because it meant the cheating would come out, and somehow I saw it a little like karma for cheating. The next day, I noticed on Facebook, I was no longer listed as her husband, but as a friend. When I saw her that night, I asked her why she changed that on FB, and she said she did not mean to, that she was just changing privacy settings. I told her I knew what was happening, and what was going on.

She asked what I meant and I told her. I told her I found the test, that I found the lingerie, and that I knew who the guy was. I knew who, because she had talked about wanting to play music with him like 3monthes ago, he was her brothers friend. But then she stopped talking about it. She was mad at first that I looked in her car, but then confessed quickly. She had been seeing him, for about 2weeks, and slept with him 2x, and this had started around Christmas. One of those times being when she had the meeting.

I asked why, she said she did not know. She said she did not think we could work through this. She did not feel she had the passion to try to work through this. She said she also thought she loved him, And that maybe we were holding each other back. That I had made her stop playing her music when we got together and stop doing the things she loved. That I was jealous and treated her as though she was cheating all through our relationship, by questioning her when she was out late, like where she had been. That I expected intimacy from her on a schedule, and that that had turned her off. that she did not feel like being intimate throughout out relationship because she felt like it was expected of her. (We did have a talk when we got married, and I had said that I wanted more, I wanted us to try being intimate more than once a month.) But all this is an exaggeration to me, not to her obviously.

At this time I told her, we are going to marriage counseling. Because with all this out, we need someone now, to help us sort though it. She agreed. We knew it would take a few days to get in to see someone so I told her, lets just play this cool for the next few days until we get in. She agreed and we did, although it was uncomfortable. We went to counseling, and she said the same thing, she did not think we could work through this. The therapist asked if she was planning on continuing the affair, and she said she was. So the therapist, was not much help, because she was like, so I guess you both should see a mediator. I felt like the therapist was not much help. Therapist suggested we stop sleeping in the same bed, as we had been.

So she moved to the spare room. That has been hard. Of course I have been talking to my family for support. I guess that is wrong. When she denied the affair, I started counseling and have continued that. My mom, divorced, has been pressuring me to have W move out. I told W we should consider her living elsewhere, that this was too hard. She cried and said she had no where to go. I asked her, how did you see this playing out, you have been doing this for awhile, what was the end game. You did not consider what you would do. She said she had not, that it was not pre-meditated. I felt bad, and said she could stay for now but we should consider it. I have asked about what she thought we should do next and she said she thought a mediator. But I am the only one who has looked into it. Her mom is also divorced, and it was ugly. I know she is talking to her, and her mom is whispering to her. Like 3 nights ago, I tried pleading with her, asking why she was not fighting for us, that she was making a mistake. I said it all, everything I could. She said she did not know.

Yesterday when I woke, she had left me a note, as we have done every day of our marriage. This one said, she was going to stay elsewhere last night, and would be home today. She said we could talk to night to decide what's better. Am I thinking I will tell her she can stay her. This is after my interpretation of the 40 rules.

I felt the rules have given me some hope. I am going to stop pleading, and focus more on myself. I have cleaned myself up a bit. I am looking at getting into some of the hobbies I use to enjoy and looking at new ones. It is hard because I think since the miscarriage is when she became unhappy. She started getting all sorts of tattoos after that, she had a few before, but she is getting a lot more. Big ones. I think I was not there for her emotionally after it. When we got the house, to afford it, we took these jobs that made it so we don't see each other. Because they paid well. So she was alone. I think the affair, is her acting out, and an easier out. I think she is depressed and I don't think she is getting the help she needs from her family. She says she is seeing a counselor now, but by phone. Which I don't think is as effective as what she needs. I also don't think she sees, what she is doing, and as destructive.
But After finding this site, I printed the rules, I am going to find the book. I have been reading the stories. I am making the choice, that going forward to try following them. I think I needed to vent this. I also think I am looking for hope. She is my best friend, lover, partner, I am willing to try to work through it.

That's enough for now, looking for guidance. I know this is long, but there has been a lot. and venting it even helped.

Thanks

So last night I came home. My dogs, super happy to see me, and reciprocated their enthusiasm. Giving them lots of attention. She said hi when I walked in and I said hi back. But quickly returned my attention to the dogs. She went outside to smoke, and I called my sister and talked cooking while I did some chores upstairs. When I finished, I came down as she was going upstairs to bed. We did not talk about the future living arrangements. I made sure I seemed happy, and that I had things to do. This is a change from me looking for her to say something, or feeling sorry for myself.

I still do feel that way, but I am trying not to show her. I am trying to stick to the rules. But I just started so I am still commiting them. I think I have read just the rules 4 times yesterday, and 2 times today.

As a side note, I wish I could edit the spelling and wording on some of what I wrote. It is the first time I have written it down, and I think I was thinking faster than I was typing, lol.

Hi, I am sorry for the difficult situation you are in. I think it would be extremely beneficial for you to talk to one of Michele's DB coaches. Your coach will help you get clarity on what you should be saying and doing, so that you are more likely to bring her closer and not push her any further away. Also, you will feel stronger and more in control of your situation. I know your mom means well in her advice (as do most parents, family and friends), but it is much more advisable to discuss with an expert and someone not emotionally involved with you. I would be happy to discuss this further with you.
Take good care.

I have thought about it. Right now, I am not sure since I am concerned with my finances. I mean I don't know if she is going to just take off, and leave me to pay the bills. Things are tight, and my instinct is telling me to save every dime. But, I do want to save my marriage. I just have to think about it. going to see my counselor tomorrow. Hoping for some clarity and guidance. I did show my mom the rules, and explained that for now, it would be best if she was there for support, but to let me find a way through. We will see. W said she would be home at 3, it is 5, but I am not calling or texting, will just entertain myself and fight the urge.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

So, here's my story, hoping I have not already blown it since I have broken many of Sandi's rules.

Nope, don't worry about it. All of us have broken some or even all of the rules at some point, mostly before we found DR and these forums.

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I asked at the time, if she loved me, she said she did, I asked if she was still in love with me, she said she did not know.

Pretty typical WAS comment.

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I could not help but notice that she was starting to keep her cell with her even to bed, and had changed her Facebook, so I could not see everything.

Yup, that's a classic WAS move too. She will cling to that phone like her life depends on it. Will sleep with it in her hand. Soon she will be getting texts all hours of the day and night and she will wake up from a dead sleep just to view the latest text. But when you text her it will take hours for her to reply, if she does at all. For now, this is your new life.

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After the holidays, I asked if she had started seeing a counselor, she had not, but was going to.

Don't be pushy, it's not going to help your sitch. Most IC's are not much more than validators, the C is just going to tell your W what she wants to hear.

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I told her we should do marriage counseling

You don't want that right now for the same reasons as above. If you have the money then spend it on a DB coach, they are pro-marriage all the way.

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and found a pregnancy test that was positive.

WOAH! Wow, that is unbelievable.

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Like 3 nights ago, I tried pleading with her, asking why she was not fighting for us, that she was making a mistake.

I just want to make sure you understand that you shouldn't do things like this, right? You're familiar with Sandi2's 37 Rules? Stop all R talks.

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Am I thinking I will tell her she can stay here.

It's her decision to make. Don't tell her to go, don't tell her to stay. Tell her you want her to stay and work on the M, but that if she feels she needs to leave then you support her in her decision. But it IS HER decision to make. That's part of her journey as a WAS.

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I think the affair, is her acting out, and an easier out. I think she is depressed and I don't think she is getting the help she needs from her family.

Anything that begins with "I think" is mind-reading. Quit the mind-reading. Work on YOU and give her time and space.

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She says she is seeing a counselor now, but by phone. Which I don't think is as effective as what she needs.

Believe me, the IC is not going to change anything. Don't pin your hopes for reconciliation on that. My W has been seeing an IC for years and just keeps getting colder and more distant.

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I also don't think she sees, what she is doing, and as destructive.

No, she sees it as her way to happiness. She's unhappy, she thinks it's all your fault and she thinks an OM will "cure" that. Here's what you can do to change that- NOTHING. Get out. GAL. Make yourself into the spouse only a fool would leave.

Good luck!

You know, your post stopped me from getting into it with her last night. She has been staying here most nights but with him I think other nights. So far to separate nights in last week. Her notes have said we should start figuring out the separation. But then she has not started talking about it when we are both here. I have avoided starting the conversation on that topic. I am letting her do it, as I normally would be the one to do it. I had it in my mind last night we would talk about budget and where she would stay last night. I was heading home with the intention of telling her she should stay elsewhere, but your post gave me pause. I came home, was nice, and social. She did not bring anything up. I am glad I did not bring it up. Thank you, I was geared up to. But I am trying to be patient. I am the caretaker and planner. Right now I have no plan which is uncomfortable for me. I want to plan, but am avoiding the urge.

She came home sick today, and I am not taking care of her as I would have in the past. I am the chef, and I am no longer buying the groceries with her in mind. So no longer buying her fav foods and just food for myself.

Thank you again

Today has been a hard day. It is difficult not to think about our marriage. I have been focusing on myself, and trying to get into things. I keep thinking, is this just making us grow apart more. Am I doing all I can to be appealing, and waiting for her affair to run its course. Assuming she will come back, realizing this is the better choice. I wonder if she is just hanging around because she has no where else to go. She said when she dropped the bomb she did not want to move in with him because she felt she needed to live alone for awhile. So without going to far down that that process, I wonder if she is just waiting for us to sell the house.

I mean neither of us can afford the mortgage alone. Neither of us can afford to buy the other out. So having the house and a apartment would be too much. But I hope, she is sticking around because there is also a chance. I mean she could go stay with her mom. She says she thinks she loves this guy, well, than go stay with him. She has places to go. But she stays here, in the guest room. I don't understand, but I am venting a little.
I don't want her to go.

I struggle with the 180s and conversation stuff. Part because she knows me really well, and when we talk it has been hard not to fall into the old habits. I mean like, talking about things I find amusing, or stories I would tell.

She is really away on a business trip. As she was about to leave our dog had a allergic reaction. She texted me for the first time in a long time to let me know. On a break, I texted if she was going to the vet. She called right away, and we have not spoke on the phone in a really long time either. Once she got him back home, she had to go, she asked me to text her if her got worse. I meant to hang up first but instead, I thought I would let her hang up first. I wanted to see how she would end the call. I did keep my words short. Being honest, I wanted her to feel the weirdness of not saying she loved me at the end of the call. I just kind of let the conversation end in silence. we both just said bye.

I guess I am just trying not to regress into wondering why she is acting like she is. I am trying to just focus on me. I know this is good regardless of whether we can save this marriage. I am just trying to kind of bury my feelings, and redirect them into my hobbies. I am trying to be patient, I just worry I am losing her. I just done think she is caring about the changes I am making. I will continue, but I feel she is just so cold to me. She talks to me, but it feels somewhat fake. Reminding myself to be patient. Avoding divorce talks and I assume I should be avoiding planning talks about her moving out, or selling the house, or any of these things. I don't know how long she will let that last, but I guess I will leave that to her. As was said earlier, it is her journey, whether she stays. I thought that maybe if she asks about the living situation saying to her,

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I just don't think she wants to leave or work on the marriage. Like I said I think she is just staying here, because it is next to her work, like a mile away, and cost. But from what she has said, she does not want to work on this. I still do. So I don't know what to do. Part of me thought having her move out might make the reality of what she is doing set in. I wont be there to look after her, feed her, and everything else I do for her on a daily basis. But in the meantime, I am just withdrawing those things with her here. I just don't know it it is having an impact.

I will keep on, just exhausted with all this.

D2 , let me start off by saying im sorry your going thru this! Its going to be one of the most challenging things you've ever done in your life, but your going to DB thru this!!!

AS is hellva good guy to have in your corner. I'm going to chime in with more of the morale support, listener for you for now.

I know its raw, your stomach is probably hurting all the time, and your in a constant daze. Make sure your eating, sleeping, and hell man, getting a good cry out here and there. Nothing wrong with that, just make sure she's not around.

I certainly don't mean to make you feel worse right now, but a lot of new posters come here almost in denial. They think that if they do A, B, and C. They can get this turned around. I just want you to understand, that is NOT the case, it can happen, but its going to take a D-Z, and then another foreign language on top of that before you might get a CHANCE to save your marriage.

I'm telling you this cause "state of mind" plays a big part of this whole thing. Do not underestimate ANY of what she's saying right now, even the crazy things you cant believe come out of her mouth. To her, they are REAL. You need to understand talking right now, is probably the worst thing you can do sometimes. Your new mantra is listening, and I mean hearing whats being said. Do NOT interject your opinion, you don't have one right now that matters. And another good hobby your going to be picking up is STFU. I think you understand.

Get out of the house, as much as you can, be mysteriously gone. Go to the library its free, you can read some books that will help. Walk around the mall, go to a park and read one of the books you might check out. Join a cheap/inexpensive gym and go work out. Just keep you and your mind busy. Its not about being mean, or "none of your business" attitude. Just you were out. period.

Keep posting here, venting, what ever you want or feel you need. We're here to listen, we're hear to help you try and save your marriage, but most importantly were here to help you save YOU.

You have a new routine everday/night, sit-ups, push-ups, cheap exercises you can do on the floor in any room, help you burn off some frustrations, and help you feel a bitter better to boot.

You'll get some others chiming in here soon. Read up on some others stories. You'll find a couple of things in common, 1. this takes a LONG time, maybe a year or two. 2. Your going to be all over the place for a while, understand that, and learn to be ok with it. 3. Its best to not share to much with too many, especially family as they don't want to see you hurt, so some of their advice might not be what you want to hear, or help with where your trying to get. 4. STFU, if your not sure what to say, say nothing to her, but do NOT let it escalate.

Feel overwhelmed yet? class is just starting. Its time to learn, and grow.

Hi D2ndday!

Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone! We are both in the same situation. I found out a month ago, he still sees the OW, and he still lives at home (most nights). Like you, I struggled and I still am...

After countless nights and days, trying to figure out the whys? Make him go or leave? What next? Should I take initiative and call the L, sale the house? ...I was putting endless energy into trying to "do things" as a reaction to him and his decisions. I then realized that I cannot change his mind or control what he does or why. All I can do is make the best decisions for me. I am not talking about the long term... I am living in the moment. So instead of staying home and wondering where he is or when and if he is coming home, I make dinner for myself, take a walk, and go to the library...anything to distract me...

In time, these new habits become routine and you find yourself not thinking of the situation as much. This gives your spouse space and allows you to clear YOUR head. You then can start thinking about what do YOU want. I think at the begging, we are all in shock and desperately running around trying to mend our hearts, our lives...take time to heal and find you again...the rest will follow!

I join the others in welcoming you, D.

There's one big issue in your stitch that I believe needs some more attention. The fact that your W is pregnant by another man. As you have said, you keep thinking about your M....so how do you feel about the possibility of her staying and you raising another man's child?

Another question I don't believe I've read yet....has she told OM she is pregnant with his child? Have you asked her if she has told him?

Examine your heart closely, D, b/c this pregnancy is just the beginning of a future you had not counted on. I'm talking about if the OM decides to be a part of the child's life. Even if you and W stay together, your lives will be connected to OM (in some ways) by this child. Could you handle seeing him come to your home to pick up his child for the holidays (or whatever)? It's something you may not be able to answer right now, b/c you've just been hit with the news.

A woman who is having an A is confused about her feelings and can very easily make bad decisions. Being pregnant just compounds those emotions. It compounds the problems. Being pregnant can cause a woman to feel emotionally bonded to the father of her child.....if she thinks she loves him. However, if the two of you decide you want to work on your M, then it can work. You may decide you want to save this M before she reaches that same decision. That is usually the case when a LBS comes to the board. If that is your situation, then you really have a difficult road to travel. We are here for you. I want to encourage you to post every day possible. It will keep your thread more active.

Word of caution about her leaving or not. Know what you want first of all. Know what your personal boundaries are. In other words, what can you live with? And, what are things you absolutely won't live without? I think most of us who have been around for a while have learned a lot about ourselves, and I think you will also. But having a good idea of what boundaries are......I mean the true definition of personal boundaries.....is a good place to start when making decisions.

Think about the man you want to be. What if he was the very best You possible? What would that guy be? Think about it. Then start to make small, reachable, personal goals that will get you on your way in becoming that man.

You may not see what any of this has to do with your M problems at the moment, but I assure you that it does. Maybe you aren't quite ready to hear all of this yet. But I hope you will think about the man you were when that girl fell in love with you. Did he change? How can you improve him to be better? When you read where we say focus on you, that is what we mean.

Protect yourself. Know your rights. Protect your health. Protect your finances.

Get free legal advice, if possible, to see how your state does things in these situations. You may even be able to google certain questions. Doesn't hurt to ask. If she gets a D while pregnant or after the baby is born....find out how it would go for you. I'm not trying to sound like I'm jumping the gun here, or being negative. I'm being realistic and telling you to be prepared as best you can for "whatever". A lot of men are blindsided b/c they have their head stuck somewhere that hinders their sight.

So think about all your options before striking out with no plan in mind.

While you are getting your thoughts together, be sure you do not threaten her or do things that look as if you are punishing her. Do not give ultimatums b/c they will backfire! Don't try to work things so she'll think about this or that. You are in a delicate situation and right now you have a lot on your plate without taking all of that on, as well.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

I was heading home with the intention of telling her she should stay elsewhere, but your post gave me pause. I came home, was nice, and social. She did not bring anything up. I am glad I did not bring it up. Thank you, I was geared up to.

Great! And you're welcome

The more you do this the more you'll see how removing pressure from her will put her more at ease. It's still a long road to recovery, but removing the pressure buys you time.

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I am the caretaker and planner. Right now I have no plan which is uncomfortable for me. I want to plan, but am avoiding the urge.

I can relate. I too was the "caretaker" of the family. Little did I know that what I always thought was just being a prudent planner my W saw as being controlling. I never meant to be that way, I thought I was doing what she wanted me to do (IE- run the family). So just keep that in mind, your W probably felt like you were controlling as well so a 180 on that is to back off. So you're doing the right thing.

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It is difficult not to think about our marriage. I have been focusing on myself, and trying to get into things. I keep thinking, is this just making us grow apart more.

DB'ing is counterintuitive. It doesn't "feel" right. Our inclination is to beg, plead, reason, negotiate, reach out. Why? Because in the past that DID work to smooth things over after an argument. But dealing with a WAS is new territory, what worked before no longer works. The WAS is on their journey and we can't help them other than by getting out of their way.

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and when we talk it has been hard not to fall into the old habits. I mean like, talking about things I find amusing, or stories I would tell.

It's OK to talk to her about funny stories and such. Sandi's rules tell you what not to talk about (D, R, M) but light and fluffy talk is fine.

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I guess I am just trying not to regress into wondering why she is acting like she is.

We all want to know "why". But take it from every vet who has ever posted here, you'll never get a satisfactory answer to that. The truth is your WAW is confused and in turmoil right now, even she doesn't know why she's doing what she's doing.

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I just worry I am losing her.

I'm going to tell you something that may hurt now but will help you later. You ALREADY lost her. Once the WAS BD's, they're already gone. Your goal is not to restore your M. You have to look at it as dead and gone. This is a wakeup call that you have to pursue a new path, make yourself into the person you never thought possible. Better, stronger, more attractive, more independent. Grieve the loss of your M and then get busy making yourself into the spouse only a fool would leave. When you do THAT, THEN she might look back. And if she does, your goal is to create a NEW R and M with her, not restore the old one.

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Avoding divorce talks and I assume I should be avoiding planning talks about her moving out, or selling the house, or any of these things.

Correct. It's OK to discuss if she initiates, but let her lead the convo's. You just listen and validate.

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But from what she has said, she does not want to work on this. I still do. So I don't know what to do.

Give her her wish. Don't work on the M. Work on you.

^^^Great advice and comments from Fly up above!!^^^

Originally Posted By: TipAnna

After countless nights and days, trying to figure out the whys? Make him go or leave? What next? Should I take initiative and call the L, sale the house? ...I was putting endless energy into trying to "do things" as a reaction to him and his decisions. I then realized that I cannot change his mind or control what he does or why. All I can do is make the best decisions for me. I am not talking about the long term... I am living in the moment. So instead of staying home and wondering where he is or when and if he is coming home, I make dinner for myself, take a walk, and go to the library...anything to distract me...

TA, for someone who has only been at this a short time you are really grasping what DB'ing is all about

I welcome all the help I can get. There has been some amazing advice and insight into what I am going through. I need this! Seeing my own counselor is not touching this stuff, I am trying to work on me, but hearing your takes on this, your thoughts and advice, helps me feel less crazy.

I should have said, and I guess there has been so much I missed it, she had another miscarriage. I know this is true, because she left the doctors stuff on the counter. I don't how I would manage that, lol. We had one this summer, our first try at having kids. The doctor warned her it would be that much easier the next time. But, yeah. When she told me about the miscarriage, I actually felt bad. Even though it was not by me, I felt bad because we had gone through this ourselves this past summer. I told her this too, that I felt bad, and that it felt weird, but that I did, because I knew how hard that was for us/her.

I am keeping busy, as much as I can. She is coming home from her trip soon, and I am on way out the door for the evening. Going to go eat some food I like, hit the library, and maybe go see a movie. Your perspectives on all of this is so helpful. I cant even put it into words what it means to me. Nights are hard when I am home alone. I work late, so I get home around 10pm. Not a lot of places to go, and too cold right now to be out. So I read, some here on this site. But those are the times, that I feel myself want to feel what is happening. Those are the times I want to snoop (I am getting better about that). But it is when I am here alone, and bored. When I know she is out having fun, and I am here. I am not going to go to the bars, I know I am probably not the most fun guy to be around as far as hanging out with friends, or meeting people. I have been trying to just keep busy with reading, writing, watching movies, etc. So it is like it hits me in waves.

I know I am saying probably what a lot of people do in this position. I just wish she would see what she's doing, not just to me. I have always taken care of her, and I know she is in a bad spot. My point is that I want to help her, I want to comfort her, I want to fix this. Resisting that is hard, but with all that I am trying to do for myself, it is a little easier I guess to resist, because I am distracted. I did come here at first hoping it would be a secret mix of doing A, B, C. like was said. But I am learning, and taking deep breathes. Trying to remind myself it is about right now for me, and not get tunnel vision on what is happening with us.

I don't know how many times today I have said under my breath or out loud to myself, patience. That is my Mantra, lol.

I hear what you all are saying, I really do. I am trying to take it all in. I do feel less in a tornado, and more calm about all this. At least right this moment, here.

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I should have said, and I guess there has been so much I missed it, she had another miscarriage. I know this is true, because she left the doctors stuff on the counter. I don't how I would manage that, lol. We had one this summer, our first try at having kids. The doctor warned her it would be that much easier the next time. But, yeah. When she told me about the miscarriage, I actually felt bad. Even though it was not by me, I felt bad because we had gone through this ourselves this past summer. I told her this too, that I felt bad, and that it felt weird, but that I did, because I knew how hard that was for us/her.

Oh okay. Thanks for straightening that out for me. I am rather amazed at your compassion, under the circumstances. It tells me a little more about what kind of heart you have, even if you were sounding a bit punitive in a couple of places. And it's understandable b/c there are not too many who gets all this 100% the first few weeks. You have a lot ahead of you. A lot to learn.....and you'll make some mistakes, but you will have support here as long as you'll stick with us and keep on keeping on.

Coming to the board will not only give you information and support, but it will help you to get through those lonely/boring times. When you aren't writing on your own thread, read other threads and you'll see how much you have in common and learn even more. And you can encourage other newcomers......even just letting them know they aren't alone and you are listening to what they have to say.

I am so glad you read Another Stander's message in time to make a difference in how you would face things when arriving home. Sometimes we just need that shot of encouragement at the right time to give us extra boost to face the evening. He (AS) has a positive attitude in his postings, and I believe you will be able to benefit even further from his support.

One thing I have noticed in the threads from what I think of as "successful" DBers, is how important GAL is. If you aren't familiar with the term "getting a life", let us know and we can fill you in.

I am equally impressed at your grasp of the concept, and your sympathy in the situation. You've got Sandi here to help now to. I'm going to grab some popcorn and enjoy this, cause your about to get a 1st class education here.

Hell I'm going to be getting a lesson myself. Hang in there D2.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

Okay first, the "rules" are something a poster here assembled, based on MWD's books. They are not infallible and if you read them carefully you can see that some of them conflict.

No one size fits all. Don't cling to them b/c our problems getting our marriages here, are more complex than the guidelines, which only GUIDE us, can do. The real work is done by digging deep. The real journey in life is an inward one.

Secondly, the cost of the DB coaching is nothing compared to the lost wages of missing work, getting a divorce, or feeling sick all the time. Buy a package of 3 and

AND KNOW IT'S NOT A WASTE...at the very least you will not continue to do the opposite of what you need to do (180s!! GAL!! What of THOSE are you doing??)

and at best, you'll find yourself, and her, in this morass. You'll get some tools and learn to leave the past in the past, and go "from this day forward" like the vows tell us to, and save your m.

You are hedging your bets (Figuring out that saving now means more b/c you probably can't win anyhow)...& that is a losing approach to life,

and you cannot save a marriage like that. Spend the money NOW and get a DB coach and no, don't tell your w. And you have read the books, YES?? B/C if you have not, do that first. THEN get a coach and do this all, this week.

Stop pushing your w out of your life...

more later...

How have you made it today?

How in blazes can I start a post? I am in the same position. But, my kids keep me in the fight. You say, 'you've always taken care of her, eh'? Well, that might be why she's sick of. She feels controlled. She feels like your dependent. You thought you were doing good I bet. She wants to be free. Show her independence an she's using you as the reason. Let you self off the hook. There is some really good advice on this site.

Today was alright, had my IC, which was fine. It helps me to verbalize what I am feeling and say what is happening out loud to someone. This helps me because I feel like sometimes I think faster than I type, lol.

Last night as I was pulling out, she was pulling in. I was hoping I would get out before she got home. I had left a note as we always do, saying I would be back later. I stopped, since she was there, and told her I would be back later. Asked how her meeting went. It was a brief interaction, because I kept it short. This past summer, I broke my cell. I did not get a new one because of cost. She is a spender, so I never felt we could afford for me to get a new one, despite her spending. But contract on one line was at an end. I figure I will need one no matter what happens. So, I went and got one. I was ready to spend a couple hundred. That is huge because I am tight with money. Somehow, I only ended up spending 50, some weird deal that worked out great. I felt so good about doing it, because I was going to spend that money I was holding onto for something I wanted. Something I had held off getting myself for along time.
unfortunately, I had to call her to get our PW for the account, I had hoped not to say anything about where I was.

Today her note congratulated me on getting the phone. She also sent me a few text asking me how I was liking it. She also gave me her schedule for the day. This was weird. Her texting, and asking me about the cell. It was positive, but still felt weird. I left before she got home, saying I would be back tonight. I went to my moms, and spent the day helping her out, and having a lunch. I had been putting that off for awhile, but it got me out, and was some good hard work. She again texted and asked if I wanted anything from the grocery. She hates the grocery, lol, and never goes. I did the grocery shopping in our house. I said no and thanked her for asking. When I got home, she told me about her day, I showed her the phone. We joked a little. It felt almost normal. But then I could feel her pull back from talking. After awhile she said she was going to bed.

I have to keep pulling myself back to the moment. Staying present, in the here and now. Not worrying about what might or could happen. Two things loom ahead, one is the super bowl, I invited some people. Assuming she would not be here, but now she might be. I may just relocate the viewing to one of their houses and go there. Because my sister, who knows what is happening would be there, and it was awkward with her and my sister during the last game. So I don't know what her plan is.

The other, which is bigger is V day. I have always made a big production on this day. I am trying to think to much about this, but there is a lot of advertising throwing it back in my face. Will she go out with him, will she stay her and we will just pretend it is any other day. I wont be doing anything for her. I thought maybe if she does go out, I might go take my mom out. Since she is alone. I don't know. But I am alone right now and venting. I am bringing myself back now, cant worry about that, focusing on now.

I actually felt pretty good today. I am staying for the most part in the here and now. Not worrying about the future, but rather what I can do right now for me. It was a nice day, I had a good time taking care of things I had put off at moms house. IC was good. I ate, which has been hard, and played with my phone. the phone was a big thing for me. I have a few plans this week to do a few things I have wanted to do for years. I am pretty excited about that. Just taking it day by day moment by moment.

Quote:

I'll be honest, I have thought a lot about that 2nd sentence today. It was hard to hear that and has been difficult to digest. I guess I still have some denial there. I am trying though to take all of this here, in.

The hardest part for me is wondering what's the truth and what's a lie. I cannot figure out if W is trying to fix M, deciding if she wants to fix M or buying time for convenience. Maybe saving money or meeting with lawyers. Ugh. The truth is in her phone. I know. Focus on me as it doesn't really matter what's she's doing. I can't control it. I cannot even enjoy some good signs as I feel she wants something in return. Usually does. Am I being played? I think our sitch are kind of alike. I feel your pain.

Quote:

Stop pushing your w out of your life...

This is another one I have a hard time with, and think about often. By no means do I want to do this. I don't know if we could recover from what has happened, but I want to try. I feel a little like Mr. jeckel/Mr. Hyde, lol. As far as how I was feeling last night alone, and how I feel this morning. This has been the routine.

Once a new day begins I feel pretty good about what's ahead. As far as what my day plan is. Late at night, I am a different person. My recent night routine is to stay in the living room on the pc and watching tv, a large part because I don't want to go to the bedroom and her not be there. When I am on the pc, I am reading here, and talking to friends. That's when the urge to snoop is the highest. I am getting better about recognizing the urge to snoop coming on, and getting up and doing something else. At some point I end up on the couch where I pass out watching tv, wake up around 3am, and then go to bed when I am only half awake. Then I don't notice she is not there as much. I also am just not tired until like 1 or 2am.

Eating is getting better. I am making a point to remind myself to eat. I am trying to stay away from junk food/instant food. Since my intake has been low, I have put together foods that are more healthy. I think I will try and focus on my health a bit more. Before BD, I had almost completely quit smoking, but this through me right back into smoking a lot. I am starting to feel like I could try again quitting. I know that will help with all other fitness.

Trying to do "little" things here and there to improve my current well being. Snooping throughout the day has gotten a lot better. Now it is just the late night snooping I really need to work on more. I can see I was getting obsessed with it, and that this was derailing my efforts. When I start to wander, or think about anything in the future, I try to remind myself to stay here and now. This has been helping, breathing as well. Anytime I start to think about what is happening, what is going to happen, I try to remind myself, this is just being generated in my mind, and to stop. Refocus. Not being able to plan, or know what is going to happen, makes it hard since that is who I have been, the planner. I also can see that when I start think about the situation I am in, it is so easy to sink into the sadness, frustration, and helplessness of what is happening. That's when I try to really bring myself back. Not always easy as I feel like I am living at ground zero.

For right now, I am going to try to limit my future to what am I doing today, well, I am going to work.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

I'm sorry, that was probably a little much to spring on you so soon after BD. And I certainly don't intend to take away your hope, because there IS hope for reconciliation. Early on I took a lot of inspiration from the success stories here. Check out the many stories in this forum:

Another Divorce Busted!

And also check out this sticky in MLC:

MLC Successes/Cinders list of Restored Marriages

And these bootcamp threads:

Successful Women

Successful Men

I was simply trying to make the point that the goal isn't to restore your old M, it's to create a new M. But it does take time. I'm sure that right now you feel beat down, defeated, depressed and your self-esteem is no doubt in the gutter. It WILL get better, I can assure you of this because all of us here have been there. We're not armchair advisors, we have lived it! Some of our M's survived, some didn't, and some (like mine) are still undecided. But you will bounce back from this and you will be a stronger and better person because of it no matter what happens to your M. It takes time, so be patient!

AnotherStander, no need to apologize. Granted it was/is hard to hear that. But, geez, everything that has happened so far has been, lol! I see what your saying, and I get it. Certainly if my M had ben so great, than this would probably not have happened. So there is some denial for me, because part of me wants to just go back to the way things were. Also when I really look at all that has happened, I can see that would just lead us back to where we are. So I see what you mean by creating a new one as opposed to restoring the old.

Looking at myself, I can see that through our marriage, I did loose myself in there too. Things that I enjoyed and cared about, that got pushed under the rug. I always just thought I was making compromise, and that this was part of being married. I have been finding that I put a lot on hold, thinking it was worthwhile to do so, for her. I realize that through a lot of our marriage, I stopped taking care of me. I was so focused on taking care of her. Making sure she had all she wanted, at my own sacrifice. Like I said earlier, she spends like crazy, and so when my phone broke, I did not get a new one due to cost. She kept spending, and I thought that was ok, but I wanted her to have all she wanted. Convinced myself that this was a promise I made when we married. That's why getting a new phone this week was a big thing for me.

I am finding who I am, not totally who I was. Since when we met, we younger, and we used to party. I don't really want to go back to that, but more who I want to be now, for me. I feel like I have to remind myself often to be patient, and not to read to much into the little behaviors she does. Not worrying about where she is or what she was doing. I am reading those and other posts on this site.

Quote:

You say, 'you've always taken care of her, eh'? Well, that might be why she's sick of. She feels controlled. She feels like your dependent. You thought you were doing good I bet. She wants to be free. Show her independence an she's using you as the reason. Let you self off the hook. There is some really good advice on this site.

Maybe your right, Inafog, maybe she did/does. I cant say anything for certain about that because, we ended up here, and I did not see it coming. I do agree that I am being used as the reason for her saying she wants to end it. Which is silly, not to her, but to me. Although I will not show that. She is not going to hear anything I say about that. So I am trying to stay on me, and I am doing a lot of reading from this site. I am perusing things that I had put on the shelf long ago. Things that I have always wanted to finish.

I am pretty much on this site daily, and feel good about being here. This has been such an eye opening place to me. It has helped me find some footing on this mountain. I am listening, and it feels good to type these thoughts out and to hear the responses. Even when they are hard to hear. I was missing that when this started, and was certainly feeling like I was losing direction. I do not expect you all to say do abc and it will be fixed anymore, there is more work to be done. I am staying in the moment as much as I can and putting all I can into being patient. ignoring some of my instincts, which is hard. Another Stander, you said earlier about DB'ing being counter intuitive. I can feel the urge to say something to her, and have done pretty good about just keeping my mouth shut, or walking away. As hard as that is.

Still debating whether I should stay home for the game tomorrow, or go to a friends, leaving her here alone. The thought is whether it would be good to just hang out with her, or better as was said earlier, to just get out of her way. Stuck on that since its tomorrow.

Inafog, it may help you if you start a thread in Newcomers. You will need to post several times to get off moderation.

So tonight, I don't know what was right. I went against my instincts on this one. Last night I asked her what her plan was for tonight's game. We had been planning before the BD that we would watch the super bowl together. After BD we really did not talk about it. She said last night she had a long day (meaning she did not know when she might be home) and had a open shift tomorrow (meaning she would go to bed early, before the end of the game). She asked my plan, I said I was not sure yet. This mornings note was, "have a great day, super bowl tonight." I was debating if I should stay and watch it with her, or part of it, or just go out and watch elsewhere. My instinct was to stay here, and watch it for the short period she would be here and awake. I felt bad leaving her to watch it alone.

But, decided that I should not trust my instinct. My note basically said the dogs had done their business, and I was going out for a bit. "That I might be home by the second half, but that I wanted to see the half time show, so not sure. Go Broncos, Go Chili Peppers ( a shared fav. band) Text if you need me. Might be back before the game, not sure. There is a pizza in the freezer if your hungry."

I did not say where I was going, or committing to when I would be back. I spent a portion of the night wondering what she was doing. Would she be home when I got home or had she gone out because I had? Was I pushing her away? Was I being mean by not staying home? All these questions. Knowing that while the game was on where I was, it was on at my home too. That she was sitting there alone. I felt bad. I still don't know if this was a mistake, going out. I just kept saying to myself, I am getting a life. I don't need to worry about what she is doing, I am showing her what me not being there is like. There was that small part of me that was like, good, she can see what it feels like to sit at home alone as I have been doing since BD. Surrounded by our marriage pictures on the walls. But mostly I am worried that this was not doing the right thing, and that I was being mean by leaving her here.

Really looking for someone's insight on this. I feel like right now I can't trust my instincts.

When I got home, she was asleep, but that's to be expected as it was very late when I got home. So now I am here. Looking to see if I made a mistake. I don't think I did, but second guessing my choice.

Quote:

I waited a few days, but now I was in full snooping mode. A few days later, I was looking for a lighter in her jacket (after she was asleep), and found a pregnancy test that was positive. One of those digital ones, that said she was 1-2 weeks along. We had not been intimate for about 1 1/2 months at that point. I went to her car, and found more test all saying the same. She was pregnant, but not by me. I was kind of relived, because it meant the cheating would come out, and somehow I saw it a little like karma for cheating. The next day, I noticed on Facebook, I was no longer listed as her husband, but as a friend. When I saw her that night, I asked her why she changed that on FB, and she said she did not mean to, that she was just changing privacy settings. I told her I knew what was happening, and what was going on.

To the OP, do you know what date her OB has placed her due date?

I ask because even though it had been 6 weeks since you were intimate, depending on her cycle, she may be pregnant for you.

That is, if she had a test that said 1-2 weeks pregnant, it doesn't mean she took that test right away, the digital ones are not very reliable on dating so may have been 3-4 weeks along. She might also have taken the test earlier, and the result was still showing. I think the digital ones last a week.

This is a serious question because you said she went to your back yard to smoke. Smoking is not good for pregnancy, but if it your child, do you feel you have the responsibility to let her know she has to take care of herself and the baby?

Let me work backwards to show you how it might be yours:

Week 6 since being intimate & you find pregnancy test - test may be 1 week old
Week 5 - Test taken, showing 1-2 week pregnancy
Week 4 - 3 - Wife pregnant but waiting for menstruation - depending on the length of her cycle this would not be abnormal
Week 2 - Earliest indication of possible pregnancy - late period
Week 1 - 0 - You and wife are intimate (1 1/2 months)

I have a hard time even thinking about that. So, I am avoiding it. She has already had a

misscarriage at this point. Whether or not it was mine, I am more concerned with the rest.

She is continuing her affair. I am not going to dwell on the Preg.

I spent this AM watching videos Michele has online, and reading her on the site. I am

backing off. I am looking at 180s that I can do. I am giving her space. The superbowl I

dont if I handled right. I am being cheerful and I have thanked her when she has done

things like setting the coffee maker for when I wake up without me even asking. Thats

something she never used to. I dont know if she is just trying to make it easier living

together now, so she can keep living her until we dont. But I am trying to not worry about

that. I mean not worry about what she may or may not be thinking. Instead focus on

myself. Stay that course as hard as that has been. So easy to slip and worry and feel

bad, but I just keep reminding myself to get back up and keep going..

I am not going to bring up D, or any of that. I am going to continue to presue bettering myself. Be the best that i can be. Listening with eye contact, and letting her start conversations. Working on the energy that I project without words. Thats hard, changing that is hard, since it is not words. Hard enough being careful what I say. Trying to be patient, even when I know this could be feeling like this for a long time. Trying to keep hope.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

But, decided that I should not trust my instinct. My note basically said the dogs had done their business, and I was going out for a bit. "That I might be home by the second half, but that I wanted to see the half time show, so not sure. Go Broncos, Go Chili Peppers ( a shared fav. band) Text if you need me. Might be back before the game, not sure. There is a pizza in the freezer if your hungry."

I did not say where I was going, or committing to when I would be back. I spent a portion of the night wondering what she was doing. Would she be home when I got home or had she gone out because I had? Was I pushing her away? Was I being mean by not staying home?

Early on we all do things that we like to think are GAL, but are really our efforts to get the WAS to "see the light". I remember one time not long after BD and before S I told W I was going out, then I went and had dinner and a drink by myself. I sat there the whole time wondering what she was thinking about this. I made sure to stay long enough so that I would get home after her and walked in expecting her to ask questions about where I was and who I was with. She said nothing. Looking back I can see what a sad and pathetic attempt it was to "snap her out of it", I really had no idea at the time just what I was dealing with. And I sense that maybe you're doing the same thing now, you're using GAL as a "trick" to try to wake her up. But here's the thing- by the time a woman becomes a WAW she has convinced herself that she is done with the M and most of the time she could really care less what the LBS does, because she's one foot out the door anyway. GAL isn't for her, it's for YOU. It's YOUR path to healing. Don't do it to try and fix her, it doesn't work that way.

Quote:

I don't need to worry about what she is doing, I am showing her what me not being there is like. There was that small part of me that was like, good, she can see what it feels like to sit at home alone as I have been doing since BD.

You're not showing her anything, because she WANTS you to not be there. She WANTS time and space from you!

Quote:

But mostly I am worried that this was not doing the right thing, and that I was being mean by leaving her here.

How many times did she call/ text you asking where you were and when you would be home? Zero? And what does that tell you?

AnotherStander, Thank you for calling me out on that! I mean I see the benefit of bettering myself, but there is a huge part of me that wants her to see it. I guess I struggle with patience on all of this. The idea of this stretching out for weeks, months, years, well, it just feels like being an ant on Everest.

Like tonight, she is staying "elsewhere" and I knew I was coming home to an empty house,(not including pets). It still kills me, and makes the mind wander, where is she, what is she doing with him. It just makes me sick!!! I get home usually between 10-11pm. So, its not like I can go out, and I am wound up so I cant sleep. Nor do I want to.

Its like you were saying about what you did early on. I mean yeah, I was kinda hoping that there would have been some comment or reaction to me not coming home until late. I mean I can see it was good for me, to go out. I am more of a homebody these days. I don't go out with friends at night, I stay home. I mean most of my friends are married with kids, lol. Like I said I never said where I went to watch the game, but really I just went to my sisters house, which was great. I can see that it might help with me getting used to going out again. That staying home and watching the game with her, was not wanted or really going to improve anything.

Your comments, about how many times did she call/text. I mean dead on, and that's hard. I guess I am still reeling that this is happening. I think, wow, and I might have to go through that for along time. I mean I walk this line, where sometimes I am fine. If I stay busy, like right now, typing this, instead of snooping, I am better.

Let me first say, I do want my marriage to work. I still love her with all of my heart. At the same time, being honest here, there is a part of me that feels like, "why does she get to out and have fun, and fool around, and I am stuck here". I wont go dating, I still wear my ring, and the idea of perusing another woman turns me off. I have no interest in that, I guess really, I just feel like, "I don't deserve to be treated like this, while she is out doing that and I have to remain true". At the same time, I want to do whatever it takes to save our marriage. I don't want anybody else.

You know you just saw right through me. All those feeling I have of disbelief of what she is doing, I was hoping she would have a similar reaction to what I did. Its two sided, I know it is to better me, but I also want her to see. I know she will may what I am doing and is possibly watching, and that this takes time. But again, I am impatient, lol. I want her to see it now!

I really had no idea how wrapped up in her I am/was. Not having her around, its like missing a part of myself.

But, I can tell I needed to hear that. Isaw your post and was like, "oh cr*p! He just saw right through it, lol" I needed that. I did have the illusion of what might happen. It was hard to decide whether to stay her or go out that night. Even though I had those hopes, I am glad I did. Being here would not have helped things at all.

I'll keep reading, and figuring out what how to get on top. Though about taking a trip, just to get out of "this", thought it might give me a break to come at it fresh. Get a break from all of this negativity, and come back refreshed. However I don't know how relaxed I would be. Think I might just be worried, like is she bringing him in my house, or will I come home and find my house empty. So not sure yet about that idea. We'll see. Ill just keep on keeping on for now.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

I'll keep reading, and figuring out what how to get on top. Though about taking a trip, just to get out of "this", thought it might give me a break to come at it fresh. Get a break from all of this negativity, and come back refreshed. However I don't know how relaxed I would be. Think I might just be worried, like is she bringing him in my house, or will I come home and find my house empty. So not sure yet about that idea. We'll see. Ill just keep on keeping on for now.

Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone as I am in the exact same situation. Truth is, I KNOW she comes over when I'm not there. So, you going away, should be for you, so that YOU take a breather regardless of what your spouse is up to. You may come home and the house is empty. And what if? You'll deal with it if that does happen. One day at a time, one foot before the other.

I realized that I cannot control what my spouse does or thinks but I can control my body and mind. When I realized that, it was a weight off my shoulders! I stopped focusing on H and a light bulb went off.. What are YOU gonna do to make yourself "comfortable and safe" in your situation, regardless of your spouse. I now know what people here say that you need to set boundaries for yourself and not for THEM.

Keep strong!

TipAnna, Your right! Although it is a concept I struggle with all the time. I am talking about it needing to be about me. Going from being the caregiver, to being an independent. A friend visited us like 2 years ago. I had not seen him since we got married. He made this comment, "man, what happened to you, you used to be such a leader, and now you work around her schedule." At the time, I blew that off, like, "oh you don't know what your talking about, this is marriage, this is what you do, its compromise." I thought this, did not say it like that to him. But now, it comes to mind. I did loose that side of me. I became fixated on taking care of her every need. I did not want her to want. When we had met I was independent, and maybe losing that hurt things also. It falls in the timeline. So getting back to being confident. Like you said, "and what if? You'll deal with it if that does happen." I can see I still zig zag back to worrying about her. But I can see that, and also that that needs to stop. I need to keep my mind on me. What is best for me, what will make me happy.

Sometimes easier said than done, but trying. I think I am making some progress there. Also, from DB reading, Gonna take smaller steps instead of trying to do everything at once. Patience remembered.

I am just going to vent for a moment. I am sooo pissed off. Wife has started texting me, and that's fine. Mostly just simple questions, like if I have an appointment, or hope my tattoo goes well today. Nice things but casual. The this afternoon, I get, "Hope it goes well, i'm not sure I remembered to tell you in my morning note that I'd be out tonight, I'll be home tomorrow night." It was like that one text, just ruined my day. I got angry, and still am. This is the 2nd time this week, she has gone there. It was like once a week or so. So knowing she was going a 2nd time. I am feeling just soo....well all the feelings I have about her continuing the affair just come right to the surface.

All the questions and paranoia I have. She must be going to stay with him. They are probably going to have sex. How could she be doing this to me? How can she be living under the same roof as I am? How is she acting like everything is ok? She cant really feel comfortable in our house. How is she so, emotionless about that? She is slipping away. I don't get it. And what, I am supposed to just stay here and hold down the fort? BS! I mean, its winter and we have lots of snow and cold. I am not going out in this.

The thought has crossed my mind though. I mean the temptation to say, well then I am going to go out and have my own affair. Or maybe a one night stand. Or maybe I will go out and hit up a strip club. I wont do any of these things. But it just [censored]! And trying to remain patient, letting whatever that is, run its course, just seems so unfair and abusive to me. I don't deserve this! I know that! I am stuck between, holding onto hope, and wanting her to come back, and feeling like telling her to hit the road. I am trying, and it is taking every ounce of my being to keep my mouth shut. I responded to her text just saying that I hope my appointment goes well too. I know I need to give her space. I need to not focus on her or D, or OM. Man is easier said than done sometimes. It takes something like today to just make me fall.

I picked up some sushi, my favorite food, something I usually don't get to eat because she hates fish. I will probably watch a movie, maybe call some family. Do something I enjoy. Try to focus on that instead of her. Maybe vent a little here, lol.

Trying not to plan, or worry about what is ahead. Pretend that what she is doing is non existent. Wipe her from my thoughts tonight. I know there is nothing I can do about her right this moment. What I can do is focus on me. Maybe read another chapter of DR. I am sure most ppl say they wish the WAW would read these books too. I know it is for me, but some parts, I am just like "maybe if she read this she would see!" Taking a deep breath. I had to vent here. Felt like I was going to explode. Even after taking an hour and shoveling snow, I was still ramped up. I don't feel like crying. I just feel, broken down, worn out, completely unmotivated to do anything. Had to force myself to go get the food. Was going to skip that, but decided, I should do something for me. Why should she get to go out and have fun with OM, and I get nothing.

I don't know. I guess I just need to get back to me, right now, and what I, will do right now. I am angry typing right now, but even that is getting softer as I write this. I just am so not used to being alone. It has been so long. Hard not to think, "where is my other half? Oh yeah! What am I going to do tonight? I wont be spending time with her. I just miss her. Even when she is here. I am doing well with not letting her see that when she is here. Both verbally or through body language. I just focus on something good, and that's what gets me through. I project high energy and happiness with stuff. If I see something funny and laugh, I don't make a point to make sure she see's it too. I just move on and that's it.

Ok, I feel a little better, going to take a break here. Se if there is anything good on, on demand. Thanks.

Feel like I am losing ground. Her second night in a row away, and caught wind she is looking for an apt. Feeling hopeless that there is a chance we can recover. I don't know, staying the course for now. Just feeling pretty defeated tonight.

Hey D2,

Keep strong. Remember that it will be a roller coaster ride with many ups and downs. Just keep holding on and continue to work on yourself. Everyone here refers to it as a marathon.

I think some days I am making progress and the next day it feels like a set back. If you have not yet read DR then get it. Pay attention to the section on goal setting for changes. Watch for the little changes and improvements, they will add up if things are going in the right direction. They are easy to overlook, allowing you to think you are not making any progress.

Thank you LT, I am trying. That is exactly how I have been feeling. I have read both DR and DB. Its hard for me to stay focused on it sometimes. I feel like the W is so messed up emotionally that it is hard for me to see what's real.

I am continuing my life and improvements. I find it hard because I feel my desires to work on our marriage are fading. We are growing further apart. I have been feeling a lot more confident in my life, which is nice. But, I feel like there is also almost an arrogance that has come with it. Like, "I deserve better than this. You want out, fine, go! I don't need you! You think the grass in greener, you fool!" I would not say this, and I try not to project that, but I think it more often these days.

I've read many stories here, and I keep thinking, we don't have kids, we don't have an obligation in that way to each other. Sure we have a house, we cant afford alone, we have pets we both love. But, that's it. I also guess I think, here is someone who called it quits when things got hard, would I be able to, or do I want to, be with someone like that. I mean I still love her, and wish things had played out differently. Its just hard not to think about this sometimes. Its like, what am I doing? What is my goal? Could we ever re-find each other. I don't know.

She is more open about her plans in advance, as far as letting me know when she will not be staying here. She has been staying at his place a few nights a week now. We did sit down and talk about taxes and how we are going to manage the joint account now. I am no longer dumping my whole check in there. It goes to my account and I put in just enough to cover our joint bills like Mortgage, insurance, etc. I made it clear I am not wanting to take over the mortgage, and that we will need to sell. I also explained this will take a lot of time since the market is so poor. If we tried to sell now, we would still owe, since we would be selling at a loss. I backed off after that since it was planning, and because it was not essential to discuss right then. Taxes and finances were.

Patience is so hard for me. I am a planner, and a do'er. So, not planning, not pushing this or knowing what will happen next is hard. I am taking care of myself, but with us, it is hard because I feel like I have to just sit in it, while she goes out with him.

I will say, I did make it through valentines day. That was a big obstacle in my mind, and all the valentine propaganda out there did not make it easier. Before valentines, it seemed a much bigger obstacle, but I am still here. I am a romantic, and I have always gone all out on that day. It was hard not doing that. Although she did stay here that night, which was kind of nice. Took a little of the edge off.

I am watching for any changes in her behavior out of the corner of my eye. With her, it is hard because she can fake happiness very well. So, she acts friendly with me, but I cant tell if she is just faking it to make things here, more tolerable.

Ok, I am done for now, back to what's next for today. Refocusing, and just hoping.

What are you doing to get a life?

Well, lets see. I have done some things for me like I got a cell phone, which after mine broke last summer, I had held off because I didn't think we/I could afford to replace it. Well, after Dday, I went out and got one. I also had been wanting a specific tattoo for like 16 years. Again due to cost, I had held off. I went out and got that the other day. I held off on these things because I wanted her to not have any wants, but now... I figure these are things I wanted.

I also have started working on getting back into school to finish my second degree. I guess that had taken a back burner with life. SO, my work is helping me get back. I am committing to finishing the editing on my book, hopefully to get published.

I have been going out and spending the day with family like my mom or sister. Like the super bowl, Me and the W usually watch it, this year I went to my sisters. I am working out again, trying to burn off frustration. I have reconnected with some safe old friends. Taking walks with my dogs at the park, weather permitting. A little hard right now under all this snow. I am more of a summer outdoors guy. So I feel a little restricted with going out much.

One thing that has kind of worked for me right now, although I think was a big problem in our M, was we work opposite schedules. Most days she works from like 5-1:30pm. I work 1230-9pm. So it is not uncommon for us to not see each other for a few days. She might be awake when I get home, as she heads to bed. On my days off, I am trying to stay busy.

Now sometimes when she is not home, I just read or watch a movie. I did not used to read much, but as of recent.

I still have periods that are hard. She still leaves me a note every morning, although now they sometimes say that she will not be coming home that night. That's hard, or when I see she still waives goodbye as she pulls out of the driveway. Even when I no longer am there to waive back. Or when I know she is here. What I mean is, I feel like it is getting harder to have her here. It has become almost easier when she is not. I don't have to worry about what to say or how to act. I don't have to stop myself from doing old behavior things like making us dinner, or if I should even offer. I mean the girl has been living off cereal, instant popcorn, and mac and cheese, LOL. She is using up all the instant foods in our house. Which is fine, but the old me, made sure she ate well. She cant cook. But I digress.

So I am trying, I slowed my pace a little. since it was feeling like to much change all at once. But the above are the things I have been able to do for now.

At this point you are just making it easier for her....she gets to stay home(when she wants), Gets to stay(have sex with)her boyfriend(when she wants)and still has you as just a friend now. So for as cheater it all worked out better than she hoped it could.

My suggestion is stop being her friend...she really is a true friend!! Have you exposed this to mutual friends?? I don't think niceing a wayward who is still seeing/having sex with the OM actually works. Well it works for the cheater and the OM!!

Do you have a plan of activies for the week? Something that gets you out of the house? Or do you kind of wait and watch to see what she's going to do? In other words, are you scheduling your life around her?

When you are on a healthy R, then you do want to consider your S and be with them when possible. But when you have a WAS in an A, you have to make a life that does not depend on her. It doesn't feel right, to do this, b/c your M mind is conditioned to do otherwise. If you are going to apply the LRT, I believe you have got to GAL.

You have made a beginning. But now it is time to get out of the house and be around people your age. Do you have any single buddies?

ILF, I guess I may have crossed the line with being upbeat, with friendliness. I guess I thought they were one in the same. I am going to make some changes there. I mean what you said is how it feels, which does not feel good at all. that's a big part of my struggle right now. She gets to go have this affair, and come home. I will have to be more precise in being upbeat, and not being a friend. (because I have no intentions of being friends if my M fails). I am re-reading the LRT steps and behaviors.

Sandi2,
It has been hard to have a list of activities. I live in the far north. Right now, we currently are buried beneath 2 feet of snow, with below zero temps. I also hate the cold, lol. So, I have hard time going out, because of it. This time of year I traditionally have always tried to stay in. At night I don't get home until 930pm, so it is pretty late for me to go out and do things. I think mostly the bars are open, but I really don't want to go there. In the mornings, I don't usually have a lot of time to go out and do things, because of my chores. My days off, I try and stay out of the house, and do day long activities. Those days I do have plans thought out and scheduled. I also am not making that known as to what those are to W.

I am being careful not to chase her. I don't follow her, talk about future, or things like that. The only time I think I am planning around her, is when I know she will be gone for a day or 2. Because that means, I need to make sure the pets are taken care of. So that they are not locked up for 8 to 12 hours without a bathroom break. Like I said I tend to stay in due to the cold, so I am here when she gets home sometimes. I do try and just do my own thing while she is here. Maybe I am reading, watching a show, or talking on the phone. Although, when I think about it, I can do better, about watching "our shows" when she is here. I did that last night while she was away. Watched one of them, and then deleted it, to make room on the dvr, lol.

During our m, I broke ties with all my local friends. I did this because they liked to party, recklessly. She had wanted me to stop going out. Which was good for me, I needed to stop partying. I got an OUI, early on and was doing some pretty destructive behaviors. So I don't want to go back to that. During that time I made some online friends, who I talk to through Skype. They are real friends, but none of them live anywhere close. Since the D day, I pulled back from them. I did thins because I felt I needed to focus on me. I did not want to involve them. I guess because I knew once this got out there, there was no way to reverse that. So, I have been pretty anti social. I have turned to family for companionship. Not to get advice, but more to talk with and reconnect with.

I have a like 1 or 2 friends still here, but they are married. I also have avoided reconnecting with them, because I just feel like I am not the most fun to be around right now. Maybe soon. I am trying to implement the LRT and am getting more familiar with what that looks like. I know I have made some mistakes with it, as I feel ILF pointed out.

When I focus on GAL, I do feel pretty good. I like changes there. I know there is a lot more I can do. Maybe not taking on more things, beyond what I have, but more the implementation of the technique. Focusing on getting into that state of mind. Reading what others have said, done, been advised of here.

Some things I plan on doing is withdrawing from some old behaviors, like the daily notes we have left for each others. Notes saying things like, have a great day, hope your feeling better (when she is ill). Hope work goes well. etc. These are notes she leaves as well, but I will pull back from these. It is a behavior we started when we got together in the beginning, and have not stopped. But looking at it another way, I can see now, this is no different than texting, emailing, etc.

Also, shutting up, lol. Not starting talks about the things I am doing, or have done. Not prolonging the conversation when she does. Maybe not responding right away when she texts me. Going more "dark" on information. I have gotten a little better about snooping, I never feel good when I have done it. I don't know what I was hoping to find. I guess that she was unhappy with the A, or if she was taking action on the D. So far it has not been what I have found and has just made me feel worse. I was obsessed with it for awhile. I am pulling back, and working hard at distracting myself when I have felt the urge.

I may be wrong in what I am saying here or not on track. Correct me if this is true. I am really trying to make the changes. For myself first, and for our M second. It is just hard finding who I am as an individual. I had not realized how much I had lost myself in all of this, and I am still learning that point, that I did loose a lot of who I was/am. Also who I want to be.

The feedback and support I have gotten here, has been so helpful. Earlier on, I was listening to everyone around me, and felt I was just spinning around in circle going in all different directions. I feel more focused and like I have a direction, that I can see benefit to. I need that, seeing a time in the future, where things wont feel the way they have, gives me hope for my own well being.

Thank you.

I don't blame you for staying in out of the cold! But while you are waiting for the snow to melt, maybe you could make out some sort of "survivor's plan" for those nights when you are struggling being alone or you're bored and can't think of anything. I leaned as a dieter I needed to make out my menu and have my supplies on hand. If I waited until I was really hungry, then my resistance wasn't strong enough. So I had to think ahead and have something ready at all times.

Maybe as ideas come to you, you could jot it down and have it on hand. And, coming to the board every night will help. I hope you will be able to balance things that are good for you mentally, physically, and emotionally. Do you get depressed easily during the winter months?

I understand about cutting off some friends, etc. You don"t want to start up old behaviors that weren't good. Hopefully, you will be able to make new friends. I see a lot of couples like you, who pretty much stick to each other until they wake up one day and realize they don't have any buddies. It will take some time, but it is something to look forward to and plan.

A lot of newcomers confuse the PMA with being friends to the WAS. A lot of people may not agree with me on this subject. It is just my opinion. I think the LBH can be nice.....like you would be friendly to a stranger, but you don't act like you are their BFF. You show friendliness.....as part of your personality, but you draw the line there. As some use to say......you are friend--ly, but not friends. Make sense?

Your W is having an A. Whenever a woman feels like she can leave a note to her H telling him she won't be home again that night, that is pretty bold even for a WAW. She either thinks you won't care, or she feels she has no consequences to face, or she can tell you anything and it will be okay. Whatever, she is disrespecting you, and why would you want to be her friend? I think a lot of guys make a mistake in trying to be BFF with their WAW. It is much better, IMO, if he acts nonchalant about whatever she does.

Now don't swing too far the other direction. Just as some confuse PMA with friendship, others confuse detaching with acting cold. You keep a positive mental attitude about things in general. In other words, you work towards not talking, thinking, or acting in a negative way that makes you look as if you've eaten sour grapes. Who wants to be around someone like that?

Detaching is an attitude. It does seem to be opposite of what many think a MR is. But if you will read up on it, I think it would be most beneficial. If I can find the post, or if someone else knows where it is, we can copy it. It is a great definition of detachment.

I hope I have not confused you more.

Not at all Sandi2, I understand what your saying. I mean I don't want to be her friend. I was trying to be positive about things and seem happy. I guess I was behaving as I would with a friend. Saying things that I find funny or exciting that are happening with me. Listening and paying attention when she talked about things like her work.

I will stop leaving reply notes. I think the notes could be a number of things. I mean we have left notes for each other since day one. They used to be love notes, but also said what we were doing for the day. Wishing the other to have a great day and such. This was what they became more when we went on opposite schedules. Now, I have written them back I think because it was a routine. They should stop though. The reason I have not stopped them has been that it lets me know if I need to check on the dogs on my lunch break, or if she will be there to do that. Even as I say this I see I am planning around her. Also the notes still have had things like, "have a great day" so I know they need to stop. I will work on detaching more, being careful not to go to far in the other direction. I will read up on that more as well.

Its funny because when we first got together, I was going out every night. She would come to, but then did not want to anymore. She wanted to stay in, and so I cut back on going out. I then got the OUI, and I stopped going out altogether. I slowly stopped hanging out with friends. Became centered on coming home to spend time with her. It was a real mistake in our R. Now, I am looking around, and see I don't have those friendships. Now that is good in a way because they were my restaurant friends. It was all about drinking, hooking up, partying. I am just not into it now. But now I am pretty lonely, my partner is not here. So that has to change.

I did check out a dating site, but that felt weird. I also contacted an ex, and had some nice talks with her. It made me feel better. I think my ego has been pretty damaged in all this. So while it did help, and she was very supportive.

However, now I am home alone again. I don't have a lot of interest in going out to hang out with friends at night. This is the hardest time as well, the nights. I think that will take some work. I am going to try and hang out with some coworkers during the day. Maybe all bring our dogs to the park, something like that.

I am a summer guy. I need the sun. Winters up here are long, and so I do tend to be a homebody this time of year. I came her because of my family. I have stayed for them, and that reason is still here. Otherwise, I would have probably left. I would not say depressed, but I am less motivated. I just don't care for 20 below zero for extended periods.

Maybe a plan would be good. I mean I do have some projects both around here and for work, that I am lining up. So making a schedule would probably be good. I like structure and that would help with that. I will work on that as well. I need to keep bringing myself back to this moment. Not thinking about anything else around me. Just focusing on what I need/want right this moment. Taking some time, here and there to just do nothing at all. Just sit. And look at what I am feeling right now. Then doing something. Which has helped some.

I am alone tonight. I am making some food, probably going to do some reading here. I have the next 2 days off, and so maybe plan those out so that I am not here. She is coming home tomorrow, at least she says. So, I will work on that as well.

I posted this tonight, when I felt tempted to snoop. So far it has prevented that urge, and the urge has faded. It just kind of comes on strong, like I need to snoop. But if I can do something else for a few minutes, that need, fades. One day at a time.

Brother, I feel for you. Nobody deserves that. Hope everything works out for you. I would also recommend u read Men are from Mars / Women are from Venus and incorporate those communication skills if not for your current relationship then your next one.

Thanks man, I agree! LOL.

Today has been challenging. She comes home after work tonight I am guessing. Trying to stay busy today. I don't know why it is harder today. Maybe because I have been thinking about how I can behave differently. What would look like. What I would say, and what I would say if she asks why I am acting differently. She may not ask. For all I know, she may like that we aren't talking. I feel like what was talked about here earlier, is a fine line to walk. I am trying to place what that will look like in action. I know there will be time here where we both will be home. I think I will just go to the bedroom and read, if she is in the living room watching tv. I don't know.

I hate that I keep thinking about here. She makes me so mad today. All that she is doing and has done. Sandi2, you said to get out of the house, I am trying. It is hard being here. Because as I go around doing chores, and really anything, I am reminded. Pretty much every room in our house has wedding photos or vacation photos. I mean I was cleaning our room, and found old love notes. Which is fine, but it just keeps it on the surface. I've thought about taking them down, but, I cant yet. I guess, I don't have the heart to.

I feel like I am living in a false reality. Pretending that what has happened and is happening, is not real. I mean, sometimes I just want to tell her to get out. you cant stay here anymore. tell her to file for divorce. I mean what are you waiting for? Enough. I guess because I want to feel empowered. I want to not feel up and down all the time. Other times, and more often, I fell like I am holding onto this shard of hope. Hope that she will see the error in her ways. That she will see what she is leaving behind and realize its a mistake. I know it is a mistake, she is just so delusional right now. I don't know if she will ever wake up.

So I think I get it, I mean I cant control what she does, feels or thinks. I CAN control what I do. I feel like it is becoming a routine to try and remember to bring myself back to this. that I do have some control, control over me. And sometimes I do feel empowered. My work has actually been great for that. I have taken on some extra projects at work. I feel focused on work when I am there, instead of thinking about home.

I was saying before, she has been my main friend for a long time. So much of my life has been about her. So like today, I would usually do my chores and then she would come home. We might do something together, id make dinner for us, and we might watch a movie. That was the routine for so long. So stepping out of this routine is hard. But I am going to head out today soon. Do have a few things lined up for the day. Working out this am, did help relive some of the pent up frustration.

Venting here as I said before has been great. Sometimes just typing what I want to say. Or what challenges I feel I am facing. Getting your insights and advise. After reading DR and DB I still feel like I am narrowing it down to where I am now. I do come from a therapy background, meaning I have been through a fair amount of it in my life. I still BS myself sometimes, and I appreciate when I've been called out on it here too.

I think I struggle with the application of the techniques I've read. I get caught up when I am eye to eye with her. Or once she is in my head, suppressing that. I will be trying a little more avoidance. Like going to another room, when I can. Even though I cant see the goal line, I am trying to keep faith. Taking deep breathes. Two phrases have helped me a lot.

One is: What's the worst thing that can happen? and could I handle that or get through that? So far the answer has been yes, this has helped calm the anxiety of the what if's.

The second is the serenity prayer.

Patience and being in the present, the right now.

I sympathize with you. My situation is a little different in that my wife, I believe, is not having an affair. HOWEVER if she WAS going out having sex with someone else before she filed for D and then used OUR home as some sort of basecamp to replenish her energies to go out again, I don't know how long I would hold on either. You are the model when someone else says "i'm doing all I can". Just know that you, with what you are doing for yourself, can not say to yourself " I could be doing more".

If you do manage to hold on and employ the LRT to get you through this, you might be rewarded in the future. It sounds like, not only is she having this A, but maybe going through MLC as well. If that's the case, stats say those "distractions" have a duration. When it is over she may come back and realize your understanding of her situation and how you didn't abandon her. I don't know or maybe it's all a fantasy we are living in.

Then again, my male family mantra is "The cure for the hurt from a woman is another woman"

Thanks LFC, I am glad you said this, because I often feel like, "what else could I be doing?" I mean this in the simple form that I don't want to look back and say, "I could've done more." I don't want to feel like I didn't try. She may be acting like she is willing to just throw it all away. But for me, when I got married, I made a promise, I gave my word. I want to and I feel like that should still mean something even if she is not willing right now. I cant control that, but I can control myself.

For the record I think it is part a MLC. I mean after we had a miscarriage this summer, after our first time really trying to have kids, I think she went into depression and hid it. She started getting big tattoos all over, which was not the norm. I mean she had a couple small ones when we got together. They were all Tats of overcoming adversity. She lost desire in trying again. Started wanting to go out and party again. Also to go join a band. Things she expressed no interest in prior. Sure, when we were in our 20s. But then we got married, bought a house, and were going to start a family. When we had the miscarriage, I think it did that to her. I also was not there for her emotionally. I traditionally don't show my bad feelings with her or others. Sadness is really what I mean. I grew up seeing it as a sign of weakness. I have felt like I was not allowed to show it, I needed to be the rock. So when miscarriage happened, yes I was sad, but I didn't go through or was not open to see that she was struggling with it. I was unavailable because of that. In hindsight I see this.

Believe me, Another woman sounds great just for a couple reasons. I don't deserve this. I am one hell of a catch. My ego was definitely damaged by this, so I do want to feel desired. I don't like feeling like I am somehow a backup, this is how I feel I am treated right now by W. So, maybe if I was dating she would realize what she gave up. HOWEVER, I cant act on any of that. I still love my wife, I still have woman married blinders on, in that I look at other woman right now, and am just kind of turned off. I really just want to be intimate with her. I looked at online dating, and tried to picture dating any of the women, and I cant see it.

I did do something I feel really bad about. I have had this girl that I have known and dated on and off for 18 years. We were in our teens when we got together. We got pregnant early on, and had a Abortion, per our parents. After 3 yrs we broke up. A few years later, we ran into each other, and got right back together. Again, we got pregnant, and again an abortion. Once more we dated a few more years. I was going through a lot at the time, and left the relationship, moved from Colorado to the northeast with my family. Basically they were leaving and so I did too. I left her, I guess I just didn't believe in her love. We have talked on and off over the last 14 years. We stopped talking when I got married. I stopped talking, because I guess I did not want to be tempted by her. She [censored] me in.
She had sent me a friend request on FB, which I ignored for about a year.

A few weeks after the bomb dropped, I accepted it. I messaged her just saying hi. We have started talking. She is in a serious relationship, on the verge of marriage. However said they were going through a hard time. She was not happy in general with her life. Our chatting right away felt like it was like old times. She was telling me how much she missed me and cared for me. How thoughts of me were keeping her up at night. All these loving things. I was just sucking up too. It felt so good to be desired, and complimented on what a great guy I am. One night, somehow we got on the topic of dirty texting. She then started sending very sexual texts that night. We were up till almost 5am doing this. At the time, I was loving it.

Right after, or the next day since I went to bed pretty quick. I felt such horrible guilt. I saw what I was doing and had done. I was the OM. I was doing just what this guy did to my marriage. I was disgusted with myself. I still feel that. We texted a few messages the next days, very casual, Hope you having a great day kind of stuff. The last 72hours, we have been silent. I know she is backing off and so am I. I think we both realize what had happened. I had told her beforehand, I knew she was in a Relationship, and I was in whatever this is, and that I was not looking to cause problems or pursue anything.

After the texting night, she had said, because there were thousands of mile between us, it felt safe. This is true. I mean, despite the other things I just said about how I felt. In reality, I have no intention of moving back out there, and I would say the same is true for her. She ahs a house they just bought. She had just started her own business. So, what then. Also I am no where near being done with what I am dealing with. I mean even if my W and I get a D, that will take forever, and selling our house, again a long long time.

But at the time, it all felt so good. I can see now, that it was wrong but at the time... That's one of my big problems. I sometimes just act, and don't realize the consequences of my actions till after. Even dealing with what's happening right now at home. I am working really hard to slow down. To think before I say anything, because I am trying to not rely on my instincts which want me to plan. I look at my situation, and my instincts want me to react. My W seems fine with this situation. She has not filed yet, she is still living here on and off. I was thinking about it, she is just focused on the OM. I mean not doing any housework, not taking care of her health. I don't understand any of this from her side. I mean if you are done, than go. If you want out, than do it. What is she waiting for?

I know this message is long, and I felt the back story on the OW, was important for context of why this texting thing was the way it was. I am not going to be the OM. I think I just wanted to feel wanted. I know she wants me. I know there is a reason we kept breaking up. I guess part of it was also that she is familiar. I also know I do love her(OW), I always have. But, I am not in love with her. I still do now want to pursue that. I was feeding a need, and now I feel bad about it.

Last night W was home, she was quiet, and so was I. I went to the bedroom and read for awhile. I had found, or thought I found a D support group that was happening last night. So I left her around 7 to go check it out. apparently my info was dated, and it does not happen anymore. I stayed out for like 2hours though, just reading in my car. When I came home, she was headed to bed. Since she had to get up at 3am for work, which is normal. So, I ordered a movie and went to bed after. She left a note again, saying she would be out tonight, but back Friday night.

So that's 3 nights this week. They are becoming more frequent. The notes, the behavior right now really feel like staying here is just about convenience. The OM is about 45min. south of here. Her work is about 5min north of here. So when she has to get up at 3, which is not every day, I think that's why she stays here. The only reason, it feels. Fine. I on the other hand will no longer be leaving notes.

I am getting better at not snooping. every time the last few days I have had the urge, I make myself go do something. whether it is posting a long story here (lol) or working out, I find a distraction to do first. Then when I finish that, I usually don't have as strong an urge and can keep busy. I have the day off today, and have some things to keep me busy today. I will be trying to keep focused on that.

I look back at what has happened so far with the Bomb dropping, talk of D. I felt like there was no way I would ever feel any better. But here I am. I am still here. I do feel a little better. But I am making it through. So even when it has seemed like the sky was falling, I survived, and I am still.

I hear what you are saying about dating. I struggle with this as well. I don't want to date anyone but my wife BUT I admit the feeling I get from other women on these sites is a real ego boost. Ego boost leads to confidence, confidence leads to better self-esteem, self-esteem leads to the feeling you can handle anything that comes your way and be the man you were born to be, which would help you, in an ironic way, to continue the LRT. So, to me, the only way to heal yourself from the pain caused by a woman is not other activities, engulfing yourself in work, going out with the boys, those are all distractions. It is the admiration and appreciation that you can only receive from another woman that will give you the confidence and self-esteem you need as a male. Just my thinking.

The LRT preaches going out and meeting people but surely you will also be meeting other women. What happens when the temptation is there? In such a fragile state from being rejected for so long you will probably accept any outside offer. How does that affect the LRT? Help? Hurt? This is what I struggle with and so I'm just inclined to stay at home.

I certainly don't blame you for engaging in sexting with that other woman. You felt your M was over. Along came a woman that appreciated you for who you were and showed you acceptance. This is what u needed internally and you showed momentary weakness. I think that's normal and you should not beat yourself over it. My wife told me to go out and bang other women. I'm still married if just on paper only. If you get approval is it still cheating? I didn't, but not because i'm nobler or stronger than anybody else. I think if I got the opportunity I would've "jumped" on it

Also if this OM knows your wife is married and STILL engaging in sexual relations with her, this makes him a willing accomplice in Home Wrecking and I have no respect for people like that.

Man I feel for you too. My W had a miscarriage about 3 years ago, and I think tqhat maybe she is now having a bit of a MLC in the mix. I can't be sure but I'm doing all I can to do my 180s for me and who knows, maybe she'll come around. My only fear is that if she leaves then I may lose everyday contact with my daughter. Plus I am very much in love with my W still, and it hurts like a mother thinking about her not loving me back.
I do have a cry at times when I'm alone and I keep repeating to myself that it is OK to feel like crap. Your whole life was turned upside down and inside out... Hang in there, and if you want check out my thread as well. Some similarities although I am not aware if there is OM. From my W's behavior I think (hope?) there isn't...

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Also if this OM knows your wife is married and STILL engaging in sexual relations with her, this makes him a willing accomplice in Home Wrecking and I have no respect for people like that.

I agree. With the OW, I felt like that is who I was, and I have stopped it. SO, the idea that this guy is continuing, makes him a**, sorry but he is. I mean I did that one thing. I got it, and have backed off. I mean the OW is not married but she is in a relationship. Even so, I felt bad about myself. My point is that this guy has continued and taken it to another level. I don't see how you can look in the mirror doing that to someone. Even if you don't know them. What kind of foundation is that for a relationship. BUT, I have to stop think about it. It just pisses me off, and really does nothing positive for me.

Blinded, I did not get it at the time, how hard the miscarriage was for her. I think as a guy, I just did not get it. Was it sad, yes, very. Was it going to take some time, sure. Did I know she was sad, yes. But I think I measured it by my own sadness. So when I was ready to try again, I expected her to be too. Instead she started getting more tattoos. "Once I finish this tattoo we will try again" she would say. These were elaborate pieces that were broken up into sessions that spread over a few months. I started becoming worried, but by then, I think it was getting late and I did not take the right actions. I should have done more then, and now, we are where we are. I still don't think I fully grasp how much of an effect it had on her. I mean I get that it was her body, but more than that I think there was a whole other emotional piece that I never had seen or experienced. She is also anti therapy, so I think even if I had suggested counseling back then, it would not have helped.

I share your pain, and like LFC said, I think we all are felling this way. We don't want anyone but our wives. We still love them and are committed to them. I know for me, I had no idea I would hurt this way for any woman. I knew I loved her, but this is more. I mean I have dated other woman, but no break up measures to this.

Just this moment, I just finished eating dinner alone. W is away for the night. I felt this wave of sadness come over me. I am alone. Then I cam here, and read your posts, and typing this now, had distracted me. I don't know if I am less sad, but I am not sitting there thinking about it. I feel little more motivated to look at what I want to do next tonight.

My wife also miscarried. Hardest thing I went through at the time.

Originally Posted By: LFC1170

Ego boost leads to confidence, confidence leads to better self-esteem, self-esteem leads to the feeling you can handle anything that comes your way and be the man you were born to be, which would help you, in an ironic way, to continue the LRT. So, to me, the only way to heal yourself from the pain caused by a woman is not other activities, engulfing yourself in work, going out with the boys, those are all distractions. It is the admiration and appreciation that you can only receive from another woman that will give you the confidence and self-esteem you need as a male. Just my thinking.

We are all codependent in our M's and go through withdrawals after BD. We've lost the affirmation that our WAS used to provide. If you date too soon it takes your focus away from where it should be- YOU. You end up not fixing your problems, but just convincing yourself that since OW find you attractive, your W was the one that was wrong and you're just fine the way you are. If you pursue that path you are doomed to repeat the same mistakes in your next R. Before any of us date we must first fix our problems, become better people, and learn to be happy BY OURSELVES. When our happiness comes from within then we have solid self-esteem. When our happiness comes from others then we are weak and subject to being put on an emotional roller coaster by them. Read No More Mister Nice Guy, it's a great book for showing you how to be happy with yourself by yourself without the need for affirmation from others.

For the record, I'm not one of those people that thinks you have to wait for D before dating (although many here do feel that way). I think it's for each of us to decide when we are ready. But I think too many LBS's jump into dating too soon and for all the wrong reasons.

There is a lot of sense in what you say. I still feel that you could never be COMPLETELY healed without that love especially if you felt it before. It would probably be easier if you never felt it to go on and do what you got to do and be successful. If you were lucky enough to have received love, I think that, there would be this feeling of not being totally complete without it.

Remember "Men in Black" when Will Smith was trying to make Tommy Lee Jones feel better about his past? He said, "Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all" and Jones got in his face and said "Try it!"

I agree with what both of you have said, lol. I do. I mean like I said there was that hit to my ego. To my feeling like was loved. That feeling of security in my life. As bad as I feel that I did that with the OW, there is a part of me that did get something from that. I stopped it, I have not pursued anything more with her. Maybe it was a moment of weakness, maybe is was an overwhelming desire to feel loved. Afterwards I did feel a renewed since of confidence in myself. I took that, and it has give me some strength still. I guess to know that I am not crazy. Not crazy to think my W is crazy for giving up. LOL.

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..You end up not fixing your problems, but just convincing yourself that since OW find you attractive, your W was the one that was wrong and you're just fine the way you are...

I agree and see the truth in what you say A.S.. I saw pretty quick after that I am still in a couple state of mind. I am not Me, the independent person, I am me, the partner. All those habits and desire to care take, are still there. I have not gotten to the point where I have really completed a change. I feel like I am making progress. I do think it helped doing that with the OW, but not to go from one W right into another R. I know I am not ready for that. Talk about being the one bringing baggage, lol.

It is also the clich�, of being lonely, maybe vulnerable. If I had been more clear or strong at that time, I might have seen ahead what the negatives would be. Like I said, there were positives, but also negatives. I am trying to build myself back up. In my OP right now, there is no harm in flirting, but not letting it go further right now. I come from a family of all woman, and I do feed off a woman's affection. So far, I really do feel like it has given me hope and motivation. That whatever happens, I will be alright.

LFC, man, isn't that the truth! IDK, maybe. I mean I try to believe there is a reason for everything. Its hard to see right now because the wounds are fresh, the pain is real. At the same time, the past 11 years of M, were overall great. To me they were. I mean just as far as the intensity of loving someone that way. I had never felt that way before. I have to be happy that I did experience that. Of course I still do love her so strongly, but who knows how this will play out. If anything, it makes me know how great it can be. That I can feel that again, and want to, because I know what it felt like to be so in love. When I met my W I was so done with being single, and all the games of dating. I was just done, and then I met her. What is my end game? I want to get back to that place, of real love. I have no idea how long it will take, or if I ever will find that place again. BUT, this is one of those times I am bringing myself back to right this moment. What am I going to do right now?

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Today, instead of breaking this post up into two, I just need a quick vent.

She came home last night, I did not leave a note for her as I would have in the past. When I got home, she was awake. She said hi, asked how work went. Asked me if I wanted to hear the latest, (a comment that made me nervous) Sure I said. She said her brothers GF was preg. Which is relative new R. I just said wow that's crazy in a very matter of fact way. I kept moving, getting settled from work, started making myself dinner, and greeting our dogs. Who are always excited to see me. She asked how my back was, from the tattoo. I said it was fine. She asked a few other things, to which I maintained the same matter of fact, although upbeat tone, answers. I asked if she worked that day, she had, asked how it went, she said good. I left it at that and went upstairs while dinner cooked. Came back down, started eating. Normally I would of asked if she wanted some, or offer her what's left. I did not. I just did my own thing. While I ate she went in the kitchen and made some kraft.

OK, so far so good. There was a moment, as I was about to take our big dog out. I looked over at her in the kitchen. She was cooking and not facing me. I felt my heart sink. Standing there in her PJ's, I felt sadness coming on. I mean there is the woman I love, she looked beautiful. I felt the desire to just go hold her in my arms. To tell her I love her. Wondering if she would see that I was looking or care. It was a little overwhelming. Now this in reality was probably just a few seconds, but it felt longer.

I quickly ducked outside, had to get out to avoid her seeing me looking, and from doing something stupid. When I came back, she told me the bathroom looked really nice. This I think I said before was one of her rooms to clean, but had become like a second hamper for her clothes. Strewn over the dryer and in front of it. She also had not been cleaning it. I took all her clothes out and put it in her room, and cleaned the bathroom. It felt good to do this. I mean I like a clean bathroom, and it just felt a little liberating I guess.

Anyway, I thanked her, and said it just needed to be done. It was getting pretty gross, and that I was not all the way done with it. Then I walked off. About an hour later, I was watching tv, she walked by saying she was going to bed, I said ok. This morning, she was up, and she asked me if I knew about some news story, I said I hadn't, and continued to drink my coffee, and go through FB.

She said good by when she went to work. She will be back tonight. It IS getting harder when she is here. I made it through the night, which was hard because she acts like nothing is happening. I just don't get that. It feels cold, and disrespectful that she acts this way. Not acknowledging the pain she has and is causing me. I don't show that, but when I am alone, I think that. I cant really see signs of change (which there may be none) because of the way she acts now towards me. She is so fake, she must be, because who acts like this?? LOL.

I have been doing very good about not snooping, and I am happy about that. I have had the urge many times. But have resisted. Every time I feel it, I do something else. Come here, FB, clean, chat, put on a movie, read, or write. Anything to give me pause. I am trying to stay in the here and now, not the past, not the future, but here and now. I have my goals, and that is what I can do now. SO, hoping the next 24-48hrs goes well. Taking a deep breath. Telling myself I can do this. One thing at a time.
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I looked over at her in the kitchen. She was cooking and not facing me. I felt my heart sink. Standing there in her PJ's, I felt sadness coming on. I mean there is the woman I love, she looked beautiful. I felt the desire to just go hold her in my arms. To tell her I love her. Wondering if she would see that I was looking or care. It was a little overwhelming. Now this in reality was probably just a few seconds, but it felt longer.

I know this EXACT feeling. It's the absolute worst. I guess we gotta work on our detaching skills more.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

It IS getting harder when she is here. I made it through the night, which was hard because she acts like nothing is happening. I just don't get that. It feels cold, and disrespectful that she acts this way. Not acknowledging the pain she has and is causing me. I don't show that, but when I am alone, I think that. I cant really see signs of change (which there may be none) because of the way she acts now towards me. She is so fake, she must be, because who acts like this?? LOL.

I struggle with this too. I can't wait for the day where I will not let their actions affect me. I mean, why feel pain and confusion when they obviously don't care. WE shouldn't care but I understand how hard it is. The process gets easier and we MUST learn to detach. Great job at keeping busy and GAL. Above all, kudos for not snooping, it will lead to nothing. Keep it up, keep DB'ing for YOU..we are in this journey together..

First, congrats for not snooping!

I

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certainly don't blame you for engaging in sexting with that other woman. You felt your M was over. Along came a woman that appreciated you for who you were and showed you acceptance. This is what u needed internally and you showed momentary weakness. I think that's normal and you should not beat yourself over it. My wife told me to go out and bang other women

.

This sexing was with the same woman you have been in and out of sexual R's over all these years. She is engaged and you are married. I know the above quote was not made by you, but for whoever should read this post I want to say something to you. If the above statement can be justified, then every EA out there can use the same justification!

It would not have been right with "any" woman, but this is a woman you have a sexual history with. Have you ever told your W about her, or did you keep that part of your life a secret?

What if your W decides to do a little snooping herself?

That's true. That's why i said momentary weakness. He admitted he cut it off, so it was just that. I wouldn't condone it if it kept going on.

The not snooping this has been hard, but I cheer myself on when the temptations are there, and I get through them. If I slip, I am being pretty good about catching it early on and pulling back. Hard as it is.

The second point, I here and see the point your making. It was not alright. It did feel good to have someone approach me. I have not had any sexual relationship with this woman for about 15 years. So when my W and I met and got together, I avoided any contact with the OW, because I knew. I knew the temptation would be there, and I really wanted this M to work. I still do. I think I was in a vulnerable, lonely spot that night, and just feeling bad all around. believe me, that is where the guilt came from. I looked at it after and thought, what have I done. It was a helpless, giving up moment. Giving up on any chance of saving this, and I gave in to it. I did back off, and really don't want to be that person. She is not engaged, but she is in a relationship, I know that's not that point.

I also get the "what if your W to do some snooping" point. I say this half joking that I would not mind her showing that interest. Again, point taken. I just keep walking.

The W was home, and asked about my day, I told her, and I asked about hers. She is being pretty talkative, and it is hard. I feel like the line between, being friendly and detaching get blurred for me sometimes. She is talking, and my eyes cant help but wander. I notice she still wears her ring. She is wearing a necklace I gave her, with pendant, but I notice there is a second pendant on there as well. I wanted to know what it was. I also notice she is wearing another ring on another finger. I had to keep making myself focused on what she was talking about, because I just keep thinking. I mean she is talking and I am thinking, how much I care about her. I think how is she talking to me so matter of fact. Like nothing is happening. That I am torn up, and that having a casual conversation is not normal.

This is why I struggle with these talks. Don't be her friend but be friendly, detatch and GAL which to me can me going to another room to do the things for me. But don't avoid her or seem sour. I feel like sometimes I am juggling, and have to focus so hard on what is right, but don't trust my instincts! LOL.

I don't know, I sit here now, and I think, stop thinking!! LOL. I have a hard time when I am face to face with. I have a hard time when I am alone. I start letting all this suck me in and overwhelm me. And it feels hopeless at that point. It just takes me time to regain calmness, and be where I am right this moment. To go do something just to distract me. I have gotten pretty aware when I am headed down a sad, or snoopy road, and pull back. Hanging in there for now.

D2,

I can completely identify with you sitch. I was separated under the same roof for 5 months before I finally moved out in January. I thought that I had detached only to realize that I had only gotten closer in some respects and started to give myself false hope. The time together was extremely difficult for all the reasons you site above. It was hard to be friendly and detach without appearing cold sometimes which created conflict. I never truly relaxed in my own home because of her texting and ongoing communication with the OM. Totally my issue but I couldn't block it from my mind. And I snooped like crazy. And every new discovery crushed me like a ton of bricks. W eventually figured me out and started to plant things or so I suspect, so I had to stop. Focusing on myself and following Sandi's rules got me through it.

I have a long way to go but I know that my time apart from W will help the progression forward. So for me the physical separation has been key to my growth. Hopefully W will learn to miss me, but if she doesn't I have learned how to live on my own again. I wish you the best! Be strong!

TVH, Thank you! I mean some days are better than others, and some I just want to waive the white flag. Man, snooping, its feels like a scratch I cant reach sometimes. But when I scratch it, its like scratching a sunburn, it just hurts more. So I am trying to be like mind over matter as best I can. Because all I have found is about how great things are for her. Oh it makes me sick. So, I am fighting it as best I can. I think sometimes, how much more can I do this? But I keep on.

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I know this EXACT feeling. It's the absolute worst. I guess we gotta work on our detaching skills more.

LFC, I do too I guess. Really hard when she is in my space.

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TipAnna, I cant wait for something like this too. I mean, I'm just tired of feeling these bad ones. I just feel like this is a huge dose of it too. Its not like an even that happens, you grieve and then move on, its ongoing! I try to do the same, not showing it when she is here. nut this morning was hard, which i'll add at the end.

Sandi2, I just want to add something I was thinking this AM. In regards to the OW topic. No doubt! I mean I am sure that's what happened to some extent in my M. She was unhappy, lonely, MLC, or just at a weak vulnerable spot. Here comes this guy, who she knows. Her brothers high school friend. Which I have suspected since this started was some kind of childhood crush. Her brother is only like 2 years older. So I just picture, this protective brother thing from them growing up preventing anything sooner, coming into her life. Offering excitement and attention, and old feelings resurface. And she crossed the line. I see the similarities to what I did, that's where part of the guilt came from. That why I said earlier when telling the story here, I was the OM. The only difference and not a real justification, is my W has already been openly having an A. So, me doing this, while not ok, well is probably what I was telling myself at the time. I mean that OW thing is over, but something I have thought about a few times and this morning.

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This morning, there was a note:
"Morning, hope you slept well. figured I'd give you my sched for this week. I'll be here tonight, Monday I'll be out. But I am here Tuesday night. I'll go for your days off Wed & Thur. night. Just let me know if you have plans to be gone overnight and I'll stay here and take care of the pups. Have a good day. I'll get 1/2 and 1/2 on my way home."

I read this, and I just done even know what to say or think. I mean, I got angry. I stopped leaving notes for her, and I will not reply to this one was well, in a note or verbally. Instead I came here to vent about it. Otherwise I think it could ruin my day. I mean I read the note about 2 hours ago and I am still amped up about it. It just has led me done a path of feeling like WTH is she doing? I just don't get it.

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Your W is having an A. Whenever a woman feels like she can leave a note to her H telling him she won't be home again that night, that is pretty bold even for a WAW. She either thinks you won't care, or she feels she has no consequences to face, or she can tell you anything and it will be okay. Whatever, she is disrespecting you, and why would you want to be her friend? I think a lot of guys make a mistake in trying to be BFF with their WAW. It is much better, IMO, if he acts nonchalant about whatever she does.

I feel like the note says here are the nights I am getting laid, while you stay home and watch the pets. The comment about letting her know if I am staying out and she will come home and watch them. YEAH RIGHT! So you can bring him here? I don't think so. If I go away, I am taking the dogs with me, or dropping them at my moms. I don't even trust her to watch them. I mean I came home the other night and asked if she had taken our bigger dog, which is kind of my dog out, and she was like yeah. A lie, I could tell, sure enough, pup had to go so bad. I could tell she had not been out in a long time by her panicked race to go.

She does nothing here for the house. Does not clean, does not clean up after herself. Leaves her mess for me. In our R towards the end, I tried letting the messes go, assuming she would take of it. That if I let it get messy enough, she would take care of it. That did now happen so I end up cleaning up after her. I think I should tell her, as long as your staying here, you got clean up after yourself. AND really you need to do some work here to keep the house clean!

Hope I slept well, do you???? I don't think so. This is what I am talking about with being so fake. No sign of remorse. This is making want this to work less and less, because I cant believe this is ok in her head. So unhealthy. She needs help, but wont get it, and I cant make here. Argg!

Sandi2, with what you said,

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She either thinks you won't care, or she feels she has no consequences to face, or she can tell you anything and it will be okay.

I mean later in this you said it is better to act nonchalant about it. I just don't know if there is anything else I can do.

Maybe there is not. Maybe I need to just let this go. I am hoping the vent right now will help with that so I can recover my days mood. Taking some deep breaths right now. It just makes me so mad. I don't see why she is staying here. She said early on, she had no where to go. Baloney! So why is she still here. Well I know part is because these are the days she has to get to work early. She is not staying here my days off for me, it is just BS, its because she has those days off. I will resist this, but my instinct (I know I know) says to tell her to not bother coming home. Changing the locks and being like deal with this reality! I wont! But that is how I am feeling right now.

What I will do, is bring my mind back to now. What am I going to do today. Off to work, and then a work out. Maybe she will be asleep when I get home, so I don't have to interact with her. Maybe the urge to say something will have faded by then.

You know I have read many stories here. The feedback I have gotten here. All the words you all have said. We have got to be some of the strongest people I know for going through these things. I mean, its unbelievable. I know how much I am hurt, how hard certain times are. I know others here are going through the same things here. We are still here, we have not thrown in the towel on our lives. I have to remember that! I am still here, but cheers to all of you too! And thank you! I cant express how helpful being right here, in this place, has helped me thus far!

One step at a time, is all anyone can do, will be my days thought to keep in mind.

I am so angry right now!! I don't even know what to say or why. I mean nothings changed. I mean I come home. She is awake but is locked up in the spare room with one of our dogs (I guess her dog). I get settled in, decide to go take the other dog for a walk since who knows how long is been since she was taken out. Can see the light on in her room. Come back in, reset the wifi, just because I am assuming she was in there doing something on wifi. I can here the dog bouncing off the walls in there because he wants to come say hi. We have a service where through our cable company we can watch tv on our devices, I want to log into that and change the PW. I wont, since we are both paying for it.

Its just that feeling like, What are you doing in there? No hello, no nothing. I am going to make something to eat I guess. What's funny is I came home with the intention of doing the same thing. Going to the workout room, and just isolating. For some reason it is pissing me off that she did I it first. I know I need to be patient through this process, but man, these emotions are strong. I am just feeling really alone. Its so heavy on my shoulders right now. This has just been a long day.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

I am so angry right now!! I don't even know what to say or why. I mean nothings changed. I mean I come home. She is awake but is locked up in the spare room with one of our dogs (I guess her dog). I get settled in, decide to go take the other dog for a walk since who knows how long is been since she was taken out. Can see the light on in her room. Come back in, reset the wifi, just because I am assuming she was in there doing something on wifi. I can here the dog bouncing off the walls in there because he wants to come say hi. We have a service where through our cable company we can watch tv on our devices, I want to log into that and change the PW. I wont, since we are both paying for it.
[quote=D2ndday] It�s just that feeling like, What are you doing in there? No hello, no nothing. I am going to make something to eat I guess. What's funny is I came home with the intention of doing the same thing. Going to the workout room, and just isolating. For some reason it is pissing me off that she did I it first. I know I need to be patient through this process, but man, these emotions are strong. I am just feeling really alone. Its so heavy on my shoulders right now. This has just been a long day.

Now, I am going to be a little direct, but hear me out. Try to think of it this way... THEY are the WAS so why would they say hi? Why would she want to be around you when she only really wants to �walkway�? I always go back to analyzing (not rationalizing) their behavior based on things I read in DR or DB...this helps me understand that what I am feeling in the moment is normal (as hard as it is) and that this is the way a WAS should be acting, so it�s ok..I dissociate myself and try to look at it as if I am watching at a movie , and that this is the story unfolding, so I don�t get hurt (as much) and this way I don�t let it consume me..

Nevertheless, I completely understand too...lol!! Why does she get the right to lock herself up and ignore you? SHE is the one who �did something wrong�, right? The only way to handle this is to let it go. I know it is hard because you are living together but remember that this �feeling� will pass. See how you reacted to her and her actions? That is the way you want HER to react, right? So next time, you come in, don�t say hi, go work out, take your dog for a walk, as if this is what you would be doing anyway (as if)?

You are NOT alone. Hundreds of people on this site and out there are going through the same thing! WE will get through this, one way or the other...Stay strong...

Yup, have to agree with TA here. The WAW wishes you were out of the house and out of her life, so why would she say anything? My W stays up in our room most of the time when I'm home. She is usually asleep by the time I go to our bed. And I'm up first in the morning, working out then making the kids' beds. I don't initiate morning conversation anymore, because that almost always got shot down, but I've noticed that now that I'm just silent, she'll usually start by telling me what her day plans are. I acknowledge, politely, but don't dig for any detail. Seems counter-intuitive, since if I were doing a 180, I would be engaging in more conversation, but that's not the way it works with WAW.
Yes, have to say that living with a WAW adds a whole dimension to DBing, but you're limited to pretty much the same toolbox. Detach. Let her do her thing without trying to make any sense of it, because you just can't. Work on not letting her jerk your chain. And know that there are many of us in the same boat.

Thank you TipAnna! I think yesterday was one of those days where it started off on the wrong foot. I was feeling more sensitive to all this. I feel like some days are like that. The wind blows a little and I fall over. LOL. I think what happens is I was feeling worn down, and so it did not take much for me to let it get to me. Your right, and I do feel a little better this morning. Nights with her here are just the hardest. I feel my chest and body tighten up as I come into the house with her here, or she comes in. Its always at night that it is the hardest. Its harder to ignore her presence in those times.

Like I know she wont be here today, and I am a little relieved. I know I need to focus on GAL, and I did go and workout after I posted and ate. It helped give me a place to focus the frustration. I did not really work out much before this all happened, but it has been part of my GAL, and it does give me a place to vent. I picture a better me, including getting myself into better shape. I am in pretty good shape, but a better me, in my mind would be stronger. I think there are a lot of reason why I am turning to that. Making myself stronger emotionally but also physically.

I am a pretty sensitive person although I try to hide that. Especially with matters of the heart. Separating myself from the reality of what is happening is pretty hard sometimes. What you have said is like taking the words from my mouth.

Quote:

Nevertheless, I completely understand too...lol!! Why does she get the right to lock herself up and ignore you? SHE is the one who �did something wrong�, right? The only way to handle this is to let it go. I know it is hard because you are living together but remember that this �feeling� will pass. See how you reacted to her and her actions? That is the way you want HER to react, right

Yes! lol. AND, I know it wont happen, and in the moment, I still think it should. AND yet here I am today. The power of those feelings have subsided. Its not as intense. But when it happens, as moments gone by have, it feels like I am going to be stuck in that spot forever. This last sentence is how soo many times going through this have felt. Like in those heavy heated moments, when it is so intense and so painful, that I wont be able to catch my breath. Like I am about to go under. I am really trying to catch myself from letting that happen, and coming here helped. I mean, me resetting the wifi last night, was petty. I just reacted. I don't like that I did that. That desire to change a password. I mean I guess I was trying to force a reaction. I let her win, this is what I mean when she is around it is harder. When I am alone, recently, it has gotten easier to redirect myself, not easy but easier.

After all this, I don't think I will like rollercoasters anymore, lol.

I think I also and getting resentful. I mean I have some great things happen in my life just recently. I got a promoted, later I got a raise, my work is going to pay for me to go back to school to finish my second degree, I was selected for a senior leadership program, where they basically are going to guide me into a higher position. (I have been putting a lot of my attention into my work recently, which has helped, lol.) All things that should be cause for celebration. Things I would want to share with people and celebrate. I feel like, this, has overshadowed it. I mean I told people, but of course I wanted to tell her, and celebrate with her. But instead of feeling great, I am up and down. I am happy about what I have accomplished and I know I need to keep my mind there. It is just moments of extreme emotion that hit me.

You know, I just typed up this last paragraph about how her family and friends dropped me, but I deleted it because I guess I shouldn't even think about that. Better to keep from going down that thought process.

Anyway, Thank you, your kind words are heard TipAnna. I slipped, but I will get up and start climbing again. This analogy feels fitting for what this has felt like. Like an ant on Everest. Today is one hour at a time.

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

I am a pretty sensitive person although I try to hide that. Especially with matters of the heart. Separating myself from the reality of what is happening is pretty hard sometimes.

I always thought that I had a good handle on my emotions, but this sitch completely changed my outlook. Indeed detaching is really hard and I am so trying to not give myself any false hope, because I feel that anything that is not well founded will just crush me later on.

When I think about a happy future now, I think about a little box and place that thought inside. I then say that I will open that box in due time... not now. I feel it helps me a bit

Thanks Blinded! I have been finding it is so easy to slip into unhappiness, and other bad thoughts. I just keep pulling myself back up and holding on.

Quiet night with her not here. haven't thought much about what she is doing, more just that I am lonely. I am trying to keep myself busy. Avoiding all that is going on for the most part. My days was long enough as it is, lol.

Remember it take two to work on your situation. Things will get better with time. You'll feel it when the time comes. I'm a similar situation with you. It's hard to breath or not thinking about the situation. But I've decided to make I and my daughter my main priority for now. I can't stop her or change the situation, so why kill myself over a selfish woman. Work on you and focus on the future you want for yourself. If your w comes back good, if not the situation will make you a better person.

One in three couples divorce due to extra marital affairs. A small percentage of these split couples go on to marry the person they have an affair with. Most will tell their ex that the affair did not cause their divorce, but rather brought issues to the forefront that hadn�t been dealt with before. During an affair neither of the participants engaged in the affair are thinking clearly, and this is one reason when couples split due to an affair there is often regret. The odds of having a successful marriage with the person you have an affair with are grimmer than the chances you had at being successful with your marriage. Despite this knowledge couples still cheat on their spouse, and they still opt for marrying their partner in the affair.

When you are in a more rational mind ask your w what sort of person dates or has an affair with someone they know is married. One thing is clear; they are comfortable with lying and adultery. That includes emotional affairs as well

Ask her if she has thought about what OM will be like when she aren�t only seeing his good side. It�s easy to impress someone when you only see him or her secretly, and don�t have to clean up after them or live with them.

You probably won't get any response telling her all this but trust me she'll think about it at some point. Right now is time for you to work on you brother. I go through the ups and down of my wife affair daily. But I'm doing better now. I still cry but am at peace knowing I can't do anything to change the situation. Be patient.

Lost!, I've tossed that thought around many times lol! So true! I think, if you were looking at a list of potential partners, who picks the one who is willing to not only have an affair with a married person, but also a person who continues the affair breaking up a household?? Seems like a winner? lol my sarcasm.

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I have thought also having an affair is forbidden, exciting, what happens when it is no longer an affair. When the Spouse is available, will he loose interest, will she? This is the same as your last sentence, but just the way I have thought about it. My W is high maintenance, always has been. Before we moved in to together, I did not see this, because we were dating, but, once she moved in, and we became serious, I saw it. I mean who knows, I was good with it, but OM may be too.

One very difficult thing for me right now is there are two parts to it. The affair, and her saying she wants a D. So even if the A ended, I know it does not mean we are back together. But what's been getting me, is the more time apart we have. The more I wonder, when I look at her, who is this person. I thought I knew her, I mean we have been together a long time. I feel like there are times when I am like looking at a stranger. That all feels so weird.

I know I need to keep my focus on me, but I think it sometimes helps for me to vent these thoughts. So they done consume me other times. I can leave it here, and go on with my day. I am sure it is because she is in it, it is harder to see how messed up that is, but all I can help is me.

Quote:

....Right now is time for you to work on you brother. I go through the ups and down of my wife affair daily. But I'm doing better now. I still cry but am at peace knowing I can't do anything to change the situation. Be patient.

I am trying, its a hard mindset to stay in. Hard to stay in the right now. My minds wants to go to places like how much longer? How long can I last? How's it going to play out? You know what I mean, all those things. I'm just tired, feel worn down. Like negative is being piled on top of negative, with minimal positive mixed in. I am not done though, ill keep on! Thank you for your words! I feel like coming here, gives me a push to keep going.

Quote:

I would strongly advise against having this conversation. She has an answer, and it goes like "YOU forced me to because I'm so miserable with you." Again, you are imposing your morals on her, and questioning her judgment, and you don't want any part of that right now. She will dig in.
I know, because I gave the "Infidelity is NEVER acceptable" speech, and seconds later I realized I was arguing with someone using the logic of a 13 year old teenager, desperately trying to extricate myself from the conversation.
Most A's come to a conclusion of their own after some months, and your W will eventually inevitably face that question on her own. You don't need to be the one to ask it.

Do not let her behavior destroy your inner peace brother.
Forgive her and worry less not because she deserve forgiveness. But because you deserve Peace.
Never give up! Because the moment you're ready to quit is usually the moment right before the miracle is about to happen. Don't give up!

Love recognizes no barriers. It jumps hurdles, leaps fences, penetrates walls to arrive at its destination. I know you're confused now but be hopeful.
You can change any situation by changing your attitude toward it. Happiness comes from holiness. You can't truly be happy unless you're hungry for Jesus Christ and willing to completely work on you. Focus more on you and watch her go into self destruction. Trust me, she'll be back, maybe for closure or wanting you back. No one knows when but work on you to be in a better place when that day comes.

Zew is absolutely right. Pls save that for later. Telling her that now might irritate her and even get her closer to OM. Continue to work on you and try to ignore the affair. OM is the symptom and the cure is left for you to work on you. We all play some kind of role in this bad behavior. Think deep and fix whatever need to be fix when it comes to you. Your attention now should be you and not the affair.

Thank you Zew and Lost! Somehow I missed this post Zew,

Quote:

In the moment, it is hard but I am here today. The world did not end. LOL! I am trying to do that. This post is so how its been. I am trying to not make sense of it. I had this whole post I was going to make about the note she left this AM, trying to make sense of it. But there was nothing really there, and right now it is best not to spend any time thinking about the note. It really was nothing new in there. I don't want to spend any time over analyzing what she was saying or might have meant in it.

As far as having a conversation to point out the error in her ways. I will not be doing that anytime soon. It is clear to me she is not only not using common sense, but also that she cant see it, and does not want to.

Quote:

I realized I was arguing with someone using the logic of a 13 year old teenager

Exactly how it feels!! To a T. She is just so close minded right now. It was frustrating back in Dec, when she said she was unhappy, because I started to see how skewed her emotional logic was. She was unhappy but unwilling to accept or want help. I don't mean from me, I just mean in general from anyone. Answers to questions, and things she would say, I would feel like, why aren't you getting help? I mean she had already told me I couldn't, of course, and I get that. She said early on she thought she would see an IC, but never did. When Bomb dropped, the reason and feeling she said she had, made no sense. I am not just saying that because I disagree with her, or that she was wrong or lying. I am just saying her expression of them, was someone who does not know how to express feelings. I mean real feelings, not basic ones like happy, sad, etc. This would be a hurdle that if there was to be a future, would need to be addressed. Not there now, but someday if it comes.

Lost, your words have helped, and they did get my mind to slow down. Early in, I started getting intense anxiety. Well, this was not an issue in the past. It is just when tension is high, I feel pressure to react. In this place that I am, not reacting raises my anxiety because I cant react. Like I cant plan long term, I can work on me now, but I cant react the way I want to. This would have been like my earlier posts, wanting to tell her to leave, filling D. Things like that. Because that is who I have been. A leader and wanting to make things happen. So not reacting, when things happen, I start getting anxious. I feel it in my chest, it just tightens up and heart starts going, like I have to do something now. I have started doing things like working out which helps with that. But long story short, your words, and the words of others here, help give me pause and slow down. I re-read them when I need to.

2 days off, W wont be back till Friday. Have the house to myself. Time to get up and get some stuff done. I have some projects for myself lined up and I so that's what I am going to do. Leave the rest for later, I don't have to deal with the feelings and the M, A, any of it right this moment, what I can do, is my projects. That's what's next.

I don't know how much I'd sweat the fact that she's not seeing an IC. You probably won't get to choose the IC, and the IC may not be pro-marriage. My W is seeing a therapist, and she's just turned out to be another enabler. Last week my W told me they were spending time analyzing my parent's relationship.
Really? My parents live far away -- at twice a year visits, my W barely knows them, and she first met them 17 years after I had left their house. What does she know of my childhood experience with my parents except that I thought it was pretty good. And the therapist has never met me or my parents. What kind of therapist is that?

And I am with you when you say it is hard to learn not to react, because you have little control. You can't plan. It's not in your nature to watch. Well, maybe it will help to keep realizing that you have control over your half. Plan that. And maybe realize too that that total lack of control may be the feeling that your WAW had that drove her to this point. And start figuring out how you contributed to that, and how you might address that in yourself. Wrap your head around that challenge, because you will benefit more from that than worrying about A, etc. At least that is what my logical self keeps telling me to do. (and I'm becoming a better listener)

Yeah, I mean that was then, I gave that up.

The past 2 days have been pretty good. I actually had 2 full days where I really didn't even stress about what is going on. I didn't actually think about it. I was happy, which I have not felt in a long time. I was busy and was having a good time. I looked at this at the end of the days, and was like, "well that was weird". I don't know. I just was busy both days doing things for me. Spending time with my dogs, cooking, running errands. I cant account for a lot of the time. It just kind of flew by. But it felt good! Now she has been out of the house the last 2 days, and comes home tonight. I am focusing on keeping that little momentum going.

I just haven't felt this way in a long time. It felt good. A relief off my shoulders for a bit. My focus has been on staying on the moment for me. What do I need, what do I want, How does this feel? I have a lot on my plate for me, so keeping that in place, has helped. I am trying to not think about the what ifs, instead on the what next. Now it just needs to warm up outside.

How're you man? Just checking on you.

Hey Lost!, thank you for checking in. I am ok, I am just taking things as they come. Not planning, not overthinking, not snooping. The past few days she has been out of the house have been, ok. I mean I actually did pretty well with her not here. I did not spend any real time thinking about it. Stayed focused on me, and what I was going to do. Got a lot done.

She came home last night and stayed here. Was here this morning. and will be here for the weekend. I made a point when I cam home last night that I was just going to go about the routine I do when she is not here. Not lingering, not waiting for her to say something. She was polite, and asked how work went, how my back was(post tattoo). I kept my answers short. Stayed focused on what I was doing. Made eye contact when talking, but didn't let it change what I was doing. I am polite as well. But I keep my answers short, I am listening when she is talking. I am not talking about my GAL, I am just doing it. I am upbeat, and motivated. I made dinner, sat down and ate it while she talked. Same thing this morning. Normally I would have a smoke with her before she left for work, but instead just went up to take my shower. Did not wait for a goodbye, or waive when she left.

Trying to not think about how weird this feels. Its hard to look at her for extended periods, since I avoid it. It just makes me miss her. Feelings come up. So, I keep to the task at hand. I am still here, reading. I have a new routine. It has been working for me. I have gotten really focused on improving my health, strength building. I also have been working hard, which is already really helping my career. I feel, ok. Which is nice. That's a big change for me. I don't know what will happen. But that's ok. Which is another big change from my need to plan, and control. Staying in the moment. Not letting myself worry about what could be coming or might happen.

My GAL routine is helping. Detaching. I am still polite but I think I am getting the difference between being a friend and being friendly. I stopped leaving notes in reply to hers. I don't know, I just am focused on me, and trying not to think about her, where we are, what's going to happen, is there a future, any of that. Right now, it is just about, get healthy, work, spending time with the pets, and trying to be happy with me, right now.

Now I say all this, I have had a few days without her here, she is here this weekend. hopefully I will be able to stay focused.

All this break my heart man. Why do good people have to suffer for loving a woman. I'm with you man, I'm in the same situation so I feel your pain 100%. Just keep working on you and doing the best to keep everything positive around her. Keep up the good work! Don't allow her action to bother you. She's lust and living in a fantasy land. You can't change anything but to work on you right now. I'm leaning to do the same man. I know you miss her and want her more, I know it hurt not having your wife right now. But with time everything will be okay. Either with or without her. Keep up the the good work!

Hey some some of us are suffering for loving a man.

It sounds like you're doing good on progress. It's so hard to completely ignore someone while you're in the same house as them, and I commend you on your continuing strength!

Lol! That made my day. I feel you on that though, we all deserve better.

Lostinpain, it is the hardest thing I have ever been through. I know others here feel that way too. Thank you and thank you Lost! In a way we are all in this together! So we are not alone in this. WE know exactly what this feels like. Unlike those around us. All the feelings, all the struggle. There are moments where I just want to throw my hands up, it takes all I've got to suppress that and to give myself a few moments. If after those moments, I am still here, then I can keep going.

Had another moment of clarity on the lack of emotional health on the W's part. Last night when I got home, she was here. Asked how work was, and I asked her about hers. She then asked if I wanted to hear the lastest news. My heart stopped, was this it? Was she going to tell me some other horrible thing, had she filed, or found a buyer for the house, I had no idea. Sure, I said. She went on tell me that her brother just found out his GF was pregnant. Ok, by itself that might not seem that bad. But to me, after the miscarriage this past summer. After her sister got pregnant about the same time or soon thereafter. I did not want to hear this, and did not know a good way to respond.

I had many snide comments I wanted to make. Now both her siblings are having kids. Something we had wanted at the time, or so I thought. I don't want to hear about how your brother is succeeding where we failed. I don't really want to talk about the topic of kids, pregnancy, or any of that. I still want to be a dad, and now, I don't know when or if that will happen. SO I don't want to hear about it. It just seemed like a really inappropriate thing to tell me. I didn't need to know. I would not have found out otherwise for months at least. With all that's going on, if I were in here shoes, it seems like that is something you did not need to tell me. It just kind of hurt.

All I did say was, wow, crazy, and then went on my way to take the dogs out.

I read a quote, its not over until you decide it is. I try to believe this. BD was early Jan. The A started in Dec. I've made it this far. Taking an inventory, I am feeling less pain than I did back in Jan/Feb. It still hurts, a lot, but not as bad as it did. I guess I am feeling more moments of peace. Trying to keep my head down and keep on. As I am sure we all are. In this uncharted land. Taking one step, and then another. Not looking down the road, at what could happen. not yet.

I sit here before I start today to check in. Life has been different? I am still here. Thinking about stopping IC, feel like it has served a purpose. I just dropped from weekly to bi weekly, we will see how it goes.

Started a new workout routine. This is good for me because it does a few things. It regulates my eating, because I have to plan my meals, calories and such. So it make me eat, regularly, and healthy, not just instant stuff. I feel better health wise. It has give me a way to physically vent my emotions. I am trying to gain muscle mass, because I have wanted to bulk up for while. So that's all good.

Keeping busy at work, taken on a big project which is keeping me busy. Had to put going back to school on the back burner for now. Just not feeling ready to make a long term commitment like that yet. Still want to do it, just not yet. Too many things up in the air.

I love nature, and as cold as it is here, which I don't like, I am making myself go out into it. Taking my dogs to the park a few times a week. Gets me out into nature and playing with them. Good for both of us I guess.

Have been really working on not planning or stressing about the future. I know this was not only hurting me, it has been a behavior that I believe played a role in where I am now. I would look around at people going out and playing all the time, and thought how irresponsible they are. Meanwhile I was planning and keeping a strict structure and regiment, which was comfortable. Now I am seeing I have missed out on things, and that comfort does not always equal happiness.

One thing that I am now pondering, fantasizing about is that I have never really like it here, where I live. I don't wake up and look out and think, its beautiful. I don't love my job, its secure, and its a bad time to be out of work. But I don't like what I do, I done feel good after along days work. I am good at it, but I have no passion for it. So the fantasy is, what would I be doing and where. I know we all have days where we don't want to go to work, and I know there are ugly days no matter where you live. But I know people, who genuinely overall, love where they live, and love what they do. I also don't connect with people here, because we are different. I find that I miss the west. Personalities, hobbies, interest are just different here. SO, been thinking about that. Not planning, just imagining what that might look like and where. Not going to make any choices yet, but being mindful that its a big world.

Staying in the present, changing my routine, letting go of control. Things that I am scared of, and give me comfort. It is hard, I keep reminding myself. Its ok, I don't need to plan right this moment, I don't need to feel in control. I need to be aware, but I don't have to control it. What I feel, I need to acknowledge. That has been hard, but it is not feeling as bad or scary as I built it up to be.

What will happen tomorrow, I don't know, I guess Ill see when I get there. Something TipAnna said to me, about my fear of taking a vacation and what if W brought the OM to my home, comes to mind. Ill deal with that when/if it happens, but not to let it control what I do. I guess I am trying to incorporate that into my day to day life.

Two quotes for today:

The serenity prayer and this:

Yesterday is history, tomorrow a mystery, but today is a gift, that's why it is called the present. To be honest I think I heard it first from Kung Fu Panda, but I know that's not where it originated and it is true.

I need to find my peace, inside. To do that I need to be mindful of the moment, the present.

So its been a few days alone. Which has been ok. I have stayed pretty well focused on me. W came home last night, was in bed when I got home. Was here when I got up. Which was a little weird since so far, she has been staying here when she has to open.

When I saw her, she asked how I was, I said good, and asked her the same, and she said good. All very matter affect. Neither of us was like GOOD! But anyway, we had small talk, how her tattoo appointment went, we have the same artist, so we talked about the artist. Blah, blah, blah. The point, and part of the reason I am posting this is what she asked next.

We were outside smoking, she had come out and joined me. I asked her if she has gotten all her stuff for taxes to be filed. She said she had just gotten it all and that maybe tonight she would work on it. After a few minutes she asked if I had given any thought about our home,(like if I had thought about whether to sell or take it over, though she didn't say these words). I replied, "not really, but the insurance company for the house had called about renewing/reviewing our policy for renewal." She asked if it was nationwide, I said it was. She asked what the whole message was and I told her.

That was basically it, we were silent for a few minutes, she said she had to head in, as she was on the closing shift. and opened tomorrow. Again, I wondered why she stayed her last night.

The part I wonder about and was not sure what to say or do was, I kept myself from asking her in reply if she had given it any thought about the house. I guess, I didn't want to encourage that conversation, since I knew it would lead to me saying what I thought would be next to be done. I am trying not to help with that. This is what she wants, so she can talk about it. On the flip side, I am a little nervous that she will just tell me one day that we have a realtor coming, or that she wants to sign the house over, or something that might blindside me. Where I am trying to not plan, where I am trying to stay in the moment, this scares me a little. As I have been the planner, in my own life. This is why, I don't like to be blindsided.

I think I did the right thing by not asking in return if she had thoughts about it. I felt awkward, since I normally would ask her opinion. Why did she ask? That has been in my mind. Maybe because she is anxious to get out, or maybe because she is feeling me out. Like for the same reasons, to see if I am planning. Who knows.

And why did she stay here last night, she didn't have to go in this AM, so it wasn't for work convince. Then to ask these questions, I don't know. It just kind of took me off balance.

What have I been doing? I have been thinking about what I want to do. I have been for the last few days. Do I want to stay here, like this city, or do I want to go start over somewhere. Do I want the house? I have these thoughts, because I feel like I am becoming more and more distant from her. Those initial feelings of knowing we could try to work things out, are growing weaker. I think if she came to me and was like, "I want to work on our M" I would say ok right now. But as time is going by, I am less optimistic, that there is a way. I don't know. I think if we did, there would be a lot of work to do to get there.

While it has been all well and good to be focused on me, I guess the last 24 has, like I said, knocked me off balance. I was doing good without her here, but her being here just puts this all back in my face.

Changing is a lengthly process that takes time and effort. It's very difficult not thinking about the relationship and the hard work invested.

It's been said to death but No Contact really is the only way. If you have any voluntary lines of communication with your wife, the breakup will be exponentially more difficult. If they're especially manipulative, they will do anything to break NC. Don't give them the satisfaction.

The cliches are true (in spirit, at least). Deleting Facebook and hitting the gym aren't miracle cures, but being proactive in general and working on yourself is always a good thing. Keep your mind off the shitty relationship that you've idealized in your head.

You need a buddy to keep you accountable, if you've got one. One of my friends would go so far as to mock and tease me when I'd talk about my wife or hint that I wanted to be with her regardless of what she did. That approach won't work for everyone, but tough love can definitely help. Preferably recruit one of your friends who particularly will not judge you.

Your ex is not the end-all be-all. You will laugh at yourself a year or two from now for thinking this. Trust me.
Holding on to this bad relationship is disrespectful to yourself. You only have about 80 years (give or take whatever) on this planet. Every second you waste on this is time you aren't going to get back. Don't give up but also do not allow her reckless life style to take away your happiness. Keep working on you and continue to focus on your future.

Lost, that was so well said and so helpful.

I've not posted anything here in a week but working daily to find my inner joy and happiness. Life goes on my friend. Your wife is lost, you have no control
Over anything. You can not stop this, at least for now. She will be the one to come begging to let back in the relationship, that's if you guys are meant to be together. Keep up with the good work! Keep focusing on you and your future!

Thank you Lost!, Its been a difficult week. Just trying to stay focused. I have been secretly looking at my options. Like what I can do with our house. Have not moved on anything, but just looking at the options. Her asking me about what I thought about the house, makes me think she is thinking about it. I don't need to share with her what I found out, but at least now I have a better idea of what in reality are my options.

I am just trying to keep my eyes forward. Focusing on what I CAN do. Sent me a text last night to let me know she would not be coming home because she was sick. Why I should I care. I know because she wanted sympathy or something. Said she just wanted to let me know, and to make sure the dogs would be all set. I don't buy it. IC pointed out that I always want rescue her, and make the decisions. That she is probably used to that and is expecting it. So, I am not doing that. I couldn't think of a response that wouldn't, A. say ok to what she is doing, B. show sympathy to her being sick, C. let her know its ok, that I had it covered. So, I did not send a reply. Why should I?

I just went about my business. That's what I will try to continue with.

One Bible story that stuck with me ever since I was a kid is the story about Peter asking Jesus how many times he should forgive someone who has sinned against him. Jesus first replies with what would seem to be an absurd number of times � "seventy times seven" � and then He follows with a parable about forgiveness (Matthew 18:21-35).

Hearing this story as a child, I thought, "Man, 490 times? That's a lot of forgiving!" But, that's the point, isn't it? We are to never stop forgiving. And Jesus makes the point very clear that unless we forgive others, our Father in heaven will not forgive us. (Matthew 6:14-15, Mark 11:25)

But, you may be thinking, "What if your spouse does something unforgiveable?" Jesus never said forgiving would be easy. But, He did say that we need to forgive, over and over again. There was no caveat that said to forgive only when the other person deserves it or to forgive if they ask for forgiveness. Matthew 6:15 says, "If you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." This is serious business.

In his book The Purpose Driven Life, Rick Warren says:
"Many people are reluctant to show mercy because they don't understand the difference between trust and forgiveness. Forgiveness is letting go of the past. Trust has to do with future behavior.

Forgiveness must be immediate, whether or not a person asks for it. Trust must be rebuilt over time. Trust requires a track record. If someone hurts you repeatedly, you are commanded by God to forgive them instantly, but you are not expected to trust them immediately, and you are not expected to continue allowing them to hurt you.

Forgive, detach and continue to focus on you. Do not let her behavior destroy your inner peace. Forgive her not because she deserve forgiveness. But because you deserve Peace.

I wont lie, I have had those thoughts of revenge. In those thoughts it is small things, like, I am not going to let her have the house, just because. Because I am angry. Or I will take the dogs away from here, so she cant see them. I wont act on that because I don't want to be that person. I don't want that on me. So I feel like I get what you are saying.

It has been hard lately because I question what I am doing. I have those recurring thoughts. That I still have disbelief in what is happening and how I got here. I feel time is closing in on me, and that very soon I will need to make some big choices. I am talking about my home, and where I will go from here. I have started looking at my options, so that when she says, this is it, I will have an idea what I will do. I wont lead the way on this, because I know this is her journey. But knowing my options I figure cant hurt.

I am trying to be strong, and to stay focused, but sometimes I am overwhelmed with sadness at this loss. I feel like some things will trigger it, and I just don't see the feelings coming. I try not to linger in the feelings, rather to acknowledge them and then do something else.

Like coming home last night, she was here, but asleep. She was gone when I got up. But coming home last night, and her being in the house, in her room, I just felt like she was purposely avoiding me. She was, and it still just brought on some sadness. I know I need to let that go, and most nights it fine. For some reason last night it just hit me again. This has been a rollercoaster for sure.

Today is new day though, and I have my routine to do.

Today is new day though, and I have my routine to do.

What routine bro??? Your life its not a routine!!its a joy my man!!

It has been hard lately because I question what I am doing. I have those recurring thoughts. That I still have disbelief in what is happening and how I got here. I feel time is closing in on me, and that very soon I will need to make some big choices. I am talking about my home, and where I will go from here. I have started looking at my options, so that when she says, this is it, I will have an idea what I will do. I wont lead the way on this, because I know this is her journey. But knowing my options I figure cant hurt.

Why are you question yourself? Dont you see that everybody in this forum does that? We question ourselves all the time...if you love yourself completelly you dont question...you accept, again its who you are, you are build of experiences and decissions and choices, let go and let God...

Also we cant see the future, but I can see that you walk around the house like "walking dead"? Is it like that? Do you walk all day thinking why this, why did I do "wrong", what is gonna happen and so on...

Dude relax, we have no idea whats going to happen, enjoy now, dont think about the repairs you will have to do before they buy the house, or the visits or whatever its on the future...think about today, how many bills I have to pay? Ok let me pay them....did I exercise? No, ok let me go to exercise...did I walk around? No, ok let me take a 20min walk with the headphones listening to "ENYA" a very relaxing kind of music...
Thats the way you take care of life....one step at the time.

It�s common among we men to push ourselves during situation like this. We question ourselves over and over and want immediate answer without looking in the mirror to find us.

Sometimes it�s to get from A to B. Sometimes it�s to create the illusion of change when in all reality you�re just spinning your wheels. Sometimes it�s simply to avoid standing still and accepting the moment as is. I'm guilty of this myself, so know you not alone.

All that pushing can feel so smart and productive until you�re exhausted, overextended, overwhelmed, or otherwise ready to snap. I�ve been in all those spots�and not just way back but yesterday when I confirmed 2nd OM.

There are still days when my instinct is to push myself to the limits for reasons I may or may not fully understand in the moment. I suspect we all do this from time to time: spread ourselves way too thin while trying to get answer or reason for our fail marriage. We expand our world only to realize there�s only so far we can stretch or change.

I know there�s only so much my body, mind, and spirit can take now, so I try to learn from these days and forget about looking for immediate answer.

Give yourself a break. Continue to work on you and leave her alone. Here are some tip on how to give yourself emotional break:

1) Practice observing your feelings instead of getting caught up in them

2) Replace regrets with dreams. Whenever you start thinking about what you should have done, shift your focus to what you plan to do now. It�s far more empowering and a lot less draining!

3) Replace regrets with dreams. Whenever you start thinking about what you should have done, shift your focus to what you plan to do now. It�s far more empowering and a lot less draining.

4)Make it a label-free day. Every time you catch yourself judging yourself or a situation as bad or inadequate�things that always cause anxiety�consciously choose to avoid labeling anything. It�s a lot easier to stay calm when we limit our negative self talk.

5) Cry if you need to and are able. Crying can help you release chemicals and hormones and create a more relaxed, positive state of mind.

5) Write down the things you�re grateful for. It doesn�t need to be a list of traditional blessings. It can include your morning coffee or the fact that you're able to live to see another day. Identifying the things that have brought us joy is a powerful way to create more.

Elimination should for a day. Every time you catch yourself getting caught up in how you should be or things should be, tell yourself, �It is what it is.� Once we accept what is we�re in a much better place to create things as we�d like them to be.

I appreciate what both of you are saying. Lost! I work on one and 2 a fair amount. I feel the feeling, and then leave it behind. 2, I am trying to redirect my thoughts to dreams of what I would like to do with my life. I guess what I say here has been to vent. When I get in those mindsets, I vent it here, so I am not taking it with me. I do pretty good when she is not around, or when there is not some new note on the fridge about what she is doing.

When it is just me, I am focused on my life. Working on ways to be happier and enjoy what I have. I am exploring parts of my life that I had put on hold when I got married. Things I wanted but felt I needed to compromise for the marriage. Now I can revisit and maybe be able to pursue.

When she is here, or does leave a note, it is like a reminder of what is happening. Her notes, telling me what nights she will be staying here, and which ones she wont. I do my best to ignore it, or vent it here. My posts here tend to be in the mornings, when I see the note, or when I made it through the night with her in the house. The rest of my day is fine. I am happy, I have fun. This is a much better place than I had been. I guess in part I am finally starting to get our M is over. Whether we can build a new one is uncertain. But I am staying on my own life. I have adopted my hobbies back into my life. They are now a part of my daily routine. I need a routine, it is who I am. I mix it up sometimes. But the basic, take care of the dogs, workout, pre prepare my meals, go to work, come home, take care of dogs, eat dinner, watch a movie or show. I throw in projects when there is time.

I feel like I have gotten a lot of my confidence back in who I am, I needed that so bad. I have been rebuilding myself physically, with working out and my style. Feels good, and I see it being noticed from other people. Girls flirting, things like that. I am not ready for that, but it has helped seeing it. I know my ego was pretty hard hit by all this.

I am ok, I can be better, and I am working towards that.

I still love my W very much, but all I can do is me. Maybe someday she will see me, but I am not waiting for her to come back. I am keeping myself from reading into things the best I can. Until she comes at me straight, the little things I read into, I don't believe.

I am ok, I am better than that. I am good. Like I said, sometimes I can just post stuff here so I don't carry it with me through the day.

Glad to hear you doing okay man. "Girls flirting" lol. I get that all the time but say thanks for the compliment and move on. It'll be unfair to any woman to off load all the baggages from the old relationship into a new one. Right now is time to heal and work on you. You also want to be careful not to fall for same crap. Women say one thing and do another. You not a home wrecker, you're a good man. keep up with the good work, Hopefully your wife will see all the changes and come back to her senses.

Have you given any more thought about moving?

Sandi,

I'd like to understand why you would suggest that he move out? This is so contrary to what we say around here in DBland. Isn't the mantra "let the WAS move out" if they're so uncomfortable correct? You may have another perspective that we haven't heard here.

I wasn't suggesting he move out. He previously talked about how much he disliked the location where he lived and was considering moving. I just wanted to know if he had thought any more about it.

Sandi2, I have. I have dreamt of what that might look like. I have been considering all the options I can see. I mean, 3 months since the B dropped. There has been no sign of...anything. My optimism on a salvation, is sadly fading.

I have to say this sometimes feels like watching an addict. W being the addict. Watching them spiral, wanting to rescue them. Feeling helpless to do anything to help them. It tears me up when I think about it. I know, like an addict, I cant make them want to get help. They have to be ready.

So, where she keeps going in that direction, all I can do is look at me. I have been. I went to the bank and talked to them about our house. Neither of us can afford it alone. The market is such that I fear that if we sell, we will still owe on it. We have only owned it for 6 years, so still a lot to be paid. Our house, was one thing that kept me here. Right now I only have two other things that would keep me here. My mother lives a few towns over, and my job.

If I moved, it would be across the country. If I moved, that's a big jump, and a little intimidating. On the other hand, a real fresh start. If I stay, I don't know. The idea of getting an apartment here, in a place I don't really care for, is not as exciting I guess or as liberating. Our city is not that big either, so I would still see her.

I had thought maybe we were waiting for it to warm up before trying to sell, that is finally coming. It is warming up every day, and spring is coming to us. I feel the deadline to make a decision is growing close, on what to do with the house. I don't know what I will do or where I will go. I will not make the decision, but I think she will. Have not decided how to respond yet.

My plan so far for the day, is to take some of my stuff to goodwill. Clothes mostly, things I done use, and don't want to pack. Lighten my load. If we are going to sell, our house will need a lot of prep. I can work on these things, as they should be done anyway. Should keep me busy, be a little therapeutic, and needs to be done no matter what happens. Start the spring cleaning I guess.

My last thought, I still want to work on the marriage. I still believe there is a way through. But, I know I cant push it. I can only do me. But that is where my mind is. I would be willing, I just don't see any signs of opportunity. I remind myself all the time, to just be in the present. What do I need today, what is my mind and body telling me? It does give me some peace, and keeps me from going into and sitting in the bad feelings.

How're you man?

If she bd 3 months ago and you see her as an "addict" dont you think you are being impatient? ImHO just so you know hehehe.

I mean to save a M I dont think MIchelle specifies time on her books...but I guess if 3 months its "a lot" for you....then well there is nothing we can tell you...

As MrBond told me once and I ended agreeing 100% its a choice to wait or fill the D papers...if you are so ready then why are you asking for help?

This might take 3 months or 10 years...we dont know...and everybody chooses when enough its enough.... But sincerelly I dont think 3 months its time enough for nobody to realize nothing...unless of course you already made up your mind

ye21, taken out of context, it may sound like I am throwing in the towel. I am not. When I wrote that I was looking at her in my mind. And all that has happened. Part of me still is hopeful she will show me some sign that she wants to work on this, salvation. So far she has not, and I remind myself not to sit around waiting for it.

I think my point with that part of my post was venting so that I could stop looking at her, and get my eyes back on me. Where she still live here, and I see her, I have to keep doing this. Because she is in my space. In the past I was her caretaker, stopping that has taken time. When she was bed ridden, from her illness, that was my life. So stopping that instinct to protect her, has taken time.

When I first came here, I had to learn there was no quick fix for this. No magic, do this, that, and its fixed type of thing. I get that. It is a marathon, but also a roller coaster of emotions. Some days are easier than others. Sometimes I need to vent those thoughts. I've been doing it here. Seeing my words here, and typing them out, is a release.

I can tell you, as I said in that post, I will not be the one ending this. I wont be filing, I wont be putting the house on the market. I wont be pushing or enabling her through this. This is her journey. I can only do me.

1 day was a lot for me, so was 1month, 2months, and now 3. I find it hard to believe it is not a lot for anyone here. Am I done, no. I'm not quitting, and it was not my intention for my post to sound that way. I am venting stuff so I don't carry it with me. So I don't sit in those feelings of waiting for her.

Her living here is a constant reminder of what is happening. That's why I said earlier when she is not here, it is almost easier because I can more easily focus on helping myself.

That was a tough day when I posted that, it was interesting because the next day felt more like acceptance. I was focused. I was not waiting, I was doing. I have to accept that marriage is over, there is no going back. I have to learn from it. Maybe we can build a new marriage, but I was thinking I cant go back to the old one. I need to continue to look at what my part was and work on those things. I have to continue rebuilding myself.

Thinking of moving and all the fantasies of what I want to do, is and was hard to do because we were so intertwined. Untangling our lives, our dreams, and trying to find my life, my dreams. I am still learning to accept that she has made a choice and it is happening. I cant change that, but I can work on me. I can look at what options I have, and who I want to be. I can be the man only a fool would leave.

I HAVE been given the gift of time. I can work on me. I can fantasize on what I want, and decide what is real. 3 months and she has not filed, we have not put the house up, she does still live here.

I'm happy for you man. Keep working on you and focusing your time on you. At the end, you be fine. You'll come out of this stronger and in a better place. Your marriage is done, you can only pray and hope for a new one, One with mutual respect, honesty, true love, compassion and dedication. Enjoy your weekend.

WOW, I am in a little shock today. As I have said, W and I had a miscarriage this past summer. When B dropped, I found out she was having a miscarriage from OM. NOW, today, I think she is pregnant again, or thinks she might be or is planning on it. I live here primarily so I know where things are and go. I couldn't help but notice as I was doing my bathroom prep, that the ovulation test package from this last summer had been moved in the cabinet. When I suspected affair, and pregnancy, I had noted how many tests where in the tin. Today I counted and 7 are missing. I had written it all down back then, and saw I had also counted the prenatal vitamins, 3 of those are missing.

I am just like in shock! I mean, wow. I don't even know what I think. I am flooded with internal questions. Is she pregnant? Are they trying? Is she going to have it? WTH? If they are going to have it, planning, did she just not want one with me? I mean I don't know what to think or feel. Like I said I am just in shock over it.

Now I just noticed this today, I will be checking tomorrow to see if those numbers change. But I guess it is just because this to me, changes things a bit or could. I don't know what to do or think, I mean this just happened, and I came here. I will digest this a bit I guess.

On a separate note, what had originally been on my mind, is vacation. I think I am going to take a trip. I don't see the above changing that or letting it. This trip may tap my account, but, I never would have gone to this place with her. I wont be broke after, it is just a pricey trip. 1000, is a lot to me, but ive always wanted to go to this place. my sisters there, and I have not seen her in years. Though we always talk.

I was reminded by my IC, what's the worse thing that can happen? It helped me realize that my worst fears, are not real. Fear of being broke and living on the street. She pointed out and its true I would never let that happen. So all that fear, is just an excuse to not live. That feeling like I need to save every dime, is keeping me from living my life. I am a traveler at heart, but instead I work at a desk. Maybe its time I lived a little. Treated myself, life is short.

What happens here, will happen.

Wow. Wonder what else today has in store.

I am just like in shock! I mean, wow. I don't even know what I think. I am flooded with internal questions. Is she pregnant? Are they trying? Is she going to have it? WTH? If they are going to have it, planning, did she just not want one with me? I mean I don't know what to think or feel. Like I said I am just in shock over it.

Now I just noticed this today, I will be checking tomorrow to see if those numbers change. But I guess it is just because this to me, changes things a bit or could. I don't know what to do or think, I mean this just happened, and I came here. I will digest this a bit I guess.

Well you want us to answer your questions or even her to do it...the questions are inside of you.
This is a forum that doesnt believe in D...that doesnt mean give up who you are does it?

Me, myself I have clear my deal breakers...if my W goes ahead with D because she is happy with another man, if she is gonna have kids with another man...thise are some of my deal breakers, then there, there is no negotiation with me... I will move on and have with another partner what I didnt had with her...simple as that...its called self respect... I can love a person, that doesnt mean that because I love a person, that person its entitled to do with my feelings whatever they want...

When we dont have self respect its easy to fall in the game of "I accept everything they do because I love them"
Many people in abussive and very toxic R do that and take the beats because they believe they love their partner...

You have to ask yourself and not us of her if you want a relationship like that... And also you have to ask yourself if there is a Relationship at all...

If you accept all she is doing and its not a deal breaker for you then keep working on yourself and you might go back with her... But I think you are being in denial now and you dont want to see the reality "because you are affraid"

The reality...she is with another person, and she seems to be looking for a baby with that person...do you have proof that this is true? Imagine that its absolutelly true...do you want that person with you or even if ot hurts do you prefer to D?

If I was married to a compulsive cheater having kids all over the place I deserve and own to myself respect and I will not continue in that R...that answer comes from inside me...
There is a difference between MLC, WAS and a partner who just doesn't want to be with you...
Its your choice now and you are in total use of your right of getting D or not...I will check inside of me and leaving my fears behind I will respect myself and analize what I am able to deal with and what I just dont want in my life...

Originally Posted By: D2ndday

if you want to stay M and have no problem with what you just said, then I guess that's what you should do.

It sounds like you are describing that your W is considering starting a family with someone else....Am I understanding you? To me that's not a M. At least not in our culture... The M you had is gone.

What are your personal goals and boundaries? What boundaries do you have to protect you from more hurt while W is having an A? Why are you allowing yourself to have a front row seat to this? How is staying where you are and watching this unfold going to help you live your life better and perhaps one day have a better R with someone (maybe your W...maybe someone else...)?

It like you're standing under a cliff with falling rocks and you're passively "wondering" if another rock might fall and crush you. This forum is not the "stay married at all costs and give myself up forum" I think some people interpret this place as NEVER D, NEVER stop DB'ing...but in her own work MWD says there are times when we've done all we can. Many of the issues she states about D are centered around couples with kids...

I'm not telling you should file for D or do something or not do something....but other than torturing yourself....what are you doing with this??

I don't mean to sound critical or judgmental. There comes a point where you have to say what you stand for. did you agree to an open marriage? If not. given the facts you stated above, how can you live a life that brings out the best in you? Why would that include standing by if she's actively pursuing starting a family with OM?

D2 I hope my words didn't come across as too harsh. please understand that is not my intention. But what are your goals with this? I can't imagine the pain what is happening, but I seems from your post like perhaps this is keeping you stuck. my 2 cents.

Not meaning to hijack page but I have a question for ye21. You say there is a difference between MLC, WAS and a partner that doesn't want to be with you. Can you expand on the difference? I'm more interested in difference between WAS and partner who doesn't want to be with you?