Me 15 months on - standing - detaching

Just starting a new topic due to old one has been shut down. Writing from the iPad so will transfer old link later and write update as well.

Previous thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2416689#Post2416689

So just bringing info from the previous thread. After about 7 months with no contact with SIL or ex best friend, I met up with them separately a few days ago. A lot of discussion about the W's new behaviours and attitudes for the worse.
Also a situation coming up is a 21st party for my s21 fiance (her 21st). It will be held on a property, quite a distance from home and requires an escort to the property, so we don't get lost. This party will be an overnighter where we bring our own tents. Anyway I found out that W will now be coming (originally wasn't) and is bringing OW with her. So my question is how do I deal with this?
Also got a text from the W yesterday thanking me for offering to give a shipping container to friend (see last thread). Again my question is do I reply to her? And how do I deal with the ex friend telling someone in the family about my offer and then the W is aware of it?
Signed the papers yesterday with the solicitor with regards to splitting of assets. They will be mailed to the W, she signs them and viola, I own the house, townhouse, new car and everything she walked away from.
The W issued the paperwork, which would have cost her somewhere around $3 to $5 thousand dollars to have done. So it didn't make any difference if I signed it first or not. Normally it would have been me signing first anyway, rather than the person who issued it.

MODS: Could you please reference the last thread with this thread. Thanks.

Something that was interesting that the ex friend told me. The W has given up on the Christianity, she believes it isn't helping her at this time in life.

Your wife left 15 months ago for another woman?

Unfortunately I think its time to throw in the towel.

Frankly, I wouldn't even want her around my family.

Of course she is hostile towards religion as it frowns upon homosexuality.

Originally Posted By: hotwheelsaust

Also a situation coming up is a 21st party for my s21 fiance (her 21st). It will be held on a property, quite a distance from home and requires an escort to the property, so we don't get lost. This party will be an overnighter where we bring our own tents. Anyway I found out that W will now be coming (originally wasn't) and is bringing OW with her. So my question is how do I deal with this?

If it were me I would go for my kid, but I'd make sure not to pitch my tent next to W's, LOL! I think she and OW are going to feel mighty uncomfortable with you around, but that's their problem, not yours.

djhartm, thank you for joining in, and you make some valid points. The problem is I don't have a choice having her around my family. The sons are adults, so it is now their choice.

Anotherstander, I agree, I am going to the party for my son and his fiance (her 21st party), not for any reason to do with the W. Yes I think it will be mighty uncomfortable for the W. Even the future DIL parents would be going what the .....? Unless W and OW decide to a. leave early or b. sleep in separate tents.
Again who really cares what they do. They can spend all the time in the world pretending to everyone.

Dear HWA,
My response to your question regarding your W's friendly text, might be to consider a casual and short response if you choose to respond. Something as short and simple "thank you your nice words". Or, you can maintain a bit of "dark" and not respond. How might each of these options impact your present goals with her at this time?

HWA,

In my case, I never did acknowledge the OW. It is about you and the W.

I remember reading a great quote from Spencer Tracy's wife when she met Katharine Hepburn for the first time: I thought you were just a rumor. LOL!!

To show W that you're detached, you can respond to her text as in "sure thing...no problem. have a good day!" The key thing in your interactions with W going forward is friendly and cordial. She's made her choice and needs to live with it for a while.

The main focus is rebuilding your relationship with your sons. It is about making them happy, feeling valued, and being able to trust you once again. What does that look like to you? Dig deep and you'll see the answers right inside you all along.

Laurie, it really is the devil I do, and the devil I don't. Thank you for joining in again, it is much appreciated.
For: the wife sees a lot more of the better me, the person who actually thinks about others and thanks them. Therefore can only be good for the sitch.
Against: she can then send another text asking about the paperwork or some other things that I don't want to think or talk about.

In some ways, neither option will make a difference to my present goals with her.

Ok, will give it a try: "W, thank you for your nice words".
Lets see what happens? PS: It has been 48 hours since the text came from the W.

Let me know, OK?

Originally Posted By: Wonka

HWA,

In my case, I never did acknowledge the OW. It is about you and the W. The key thing in your interactions with W going forward is friendly and cordial. She's made her choice and needs to live with it for a while.

The main focus is rebuilding your relationship with your sons. It is about making them happy, feeling valued, and being able to trust you once again. What does that look like to you? Dig deep and you'll see the answers right inside you all along.

Thanks also Wonka. I understand what you are saying and it is quite a good way of thinking/doing. The only time I mentioned the OW to the W, was when I asked about the relationship way back in June. Nothing since then. So I will play it that way, no acknowledging of the OW.

With regards to the sons, yes that is my focus. While I felt that I was valuing them, I accept by talking occassionally about the W, I was devaluing them instead. So no W talk (I have mentioned that already). The trust and happiness I believe will come from showing them I value them better by doing no W talk. I already validate them as much as possible, let them know how proud I am of their achievements. While I have always been talking about having my head held high in this sitch for the boys, in all honesty, I haven't shown them that attitude. So now I need to.

Thanks Wonka.

Laurie, will put the reply or no reply on here.

HWA,

Your actions and words have to be congruent. This is how trust is earned.

Yes Wonka, I need to be better at this. I will focus on being congruent. I even looked it up :-)

I will keep a watch out.

MIL contacted me via facebook and is coming around tomorrow to have a chat.....scary music time...

HWA,

Keep your head screwed on straight and be light & breezy with MIL. Talk about your sons, your job, etc. If MIL brings up W, just listen and validate. You've got this!

Thank you Wonka for your caring. Yes I think I will have this. I will do my best to listen and validate. She is a hard woman, very tough, but I will do what I can.
I do think it is funny, that I mentioned, once you talk to one member of the family, the info goes to them all. So here I am finally talking to SIL last Sunday and now the MIL wants to chat. Mmmmm.

Well that was so much fun. Yes, as I believed it was always about me and what I did wrong.
MIL issues:
* I lied to her about the job transfer location.
- I explained 1. the boys needed to know first 2. It wasn't 100% guaranteed 3. why would I need or want to tell her after 6 months of no communication
* I am/was selfish over the whole splitting of assets.
- Sorry to say folks, I started to lose it. I did keep my voice calm I did try to validate, but I had to stand up for myself here.
- This is where the family (mil) is a joke sometimes. I told her firstly, I don't need to explain myself to her, but I will. I explained calmly that I haven't fought the W on any issue with splitting the assets. All I have done is agreed to everything she wanted/not wanted. In the MIL's opinion I should have told her (W) how unfair that is/was and renegotiated the deal. WTF.
- She asked "well what would you say if W wanted to change things now?". I answered back that would be between W and I.
- Anyway bottom dollar, she walked out of the house saying I am still a selfish bastard that hasn't changed and no wonder W won't go back and she (W) is quite right in her ways to be with this other woman, who by the way isn't in a relationship with W. Another WTF?
Total time here 20mins.
So the whole conversation meeting was to have a go at me and truth be known, to request me to allow the W to have the townhouse (investment property) to come back to next year.
And the MIL doesn't want to speak to me ever again, because in case you didn't hear, I am SELFISH.

hotwheelsaust,
It's almost always WTF with the WAS's family. LBS is the one to blame. Well, what can you do if they prefer to nibble at the 'speck of dust in your eye'?
I can empathize.

Thanks planet, it is just hard to work out where I want to be at this stage in time.

Wish I had something to add here HWA, but I am so fed up with my own WAW and her family, I can't see straight. I guess I can say that I empathize with you. What some people consider a rational perspective amazes me. I am sorry you are dealing with this.

Thanks suckerpunch, but it helps me put a better perspective on things. Sometimes we think we are the only ones this happens to, but in reality there are many of us, some worse, some better, some the same. It doesn't make a difference, we are all hurting in our own ways. My empathy goes to you also suckerpunch.

HWA,
Remember I am not a VET � you need them on this matter, BUT�
I would really consider standing up for ME - if I were you in this case.

I am so sorry that you are going through all of this right now.

First the friend and SIL and now MIL putting you down this way.
To me all of this sounds (and now I am mindreading/guessing) like the family has decided that you have mistreated W in the splitting of assets and that you are the one to blame for W feeling bad about some issues. She is standing up for her daughter and she came by to make you give in to something W has told her. It seems like there is a �different truth� out there!

That�s what it is�.

BUT if your sons are seeing you as/are being told that you are one selfish B and if sons are a part of these talks in the rest of the family then I would consider putting the truth out there. (And that is how I understood you in our talks.)

What I have understood is:
- You have given W this D the way she wanted it.
- You have paid W money and that way you kept the houses.
- The split was done fair according to attorneys, you and W
- Ws and her attorney made the outline for the agreement and you have accepted that
- You see this splitting of assets as fair (do you?) � did W get her fair share?

This is now turned around to you being selfish and that you mistreated W during the splitting of assets

If the above is how you feel about all of this, then I would consider having a talk with W about the things that are said about you. I would consider saying �enough is enough� and tell her to get the truth out there NOW and if she doesn�t then I would also consider having a talk with sons about this.

I would consider telling W that I would have a talk with the sons about the timeline in this, how it all have been done � all of the practical�s and ONLY the practical�s � and I would tell her that I would love to have the talk with her first and that she is more than welcome to join you and sons when this is done.

I would set a clear boundary on this matter! W, Do NOT lie about me to my sons! That goes for you and for the rest of your family!

I believe it will make the gap between you on one side and W and IL on the other bigger but if they are putting you down in front of your sons I wouldn�t care one bit � these are your sons and IMHO that is what matters right now.

I (and that�s only me) believe I would be able to cope with the IL talking me down but if this came to my children being told lies about me and how I handled this � I would get furious and I understand why you �lost it�

HWA, do NOT storm out and do this now! Get the VETs onboard in this because the above could be totally wrong � apply MUCH time before you do ANYTHING because once done�..

(You have always had a tendency of reacting very quickly � do NOT do that this time! Take your time to digest this! DO NOT REACT BEFORE YOU ARE ABSOLUTE SURE AND HAVE ALL THE ADVICE YOU CAN GET!!!)

�and do remember that everything you say is �public� � so keep the talk about this in here until you are absolutely sure about what you want to do about it.

Please correct me if I have misinterpreted anything!!

I also stumbled on the �W is not in a R with OW�. I wouldn�t put anything into this right now. You have the words from SIL and friend to lean on here. It might be hard for MIL to accept that W is in R with OW � and the way all of this sounds the family might be picking the pieces they like and blaming you for the rest!

Originally Posted By: HWA

She asked "well what would you say if W wanted to change things now?". I answered back that would be between W and I.

IMHO: Perfect answer!

F

Originally Posted By: Fartiltre

HWA,
To me all of this sounds (and now I am mindreading/guessing) like the family has decided that you have mistreated W in the splitting of assets and that you are the one to blame for W feeling bad about some issues.

F, yes I have accepted that the family/friend feel that somehow I have mistreated the W in the splitting of assets. All I have done is agreed to what she wanted. But having the MIL tell me I should have offered more is bordering on the ridiculous.

BUT if your sons are seeing you as/are being told that you are one selfish B and if sons are a part of these talks in the rest of the family then I would consider putting the truth out there. (And that is how I understood you in our talks.)
And this is where I need help. How do I discuss this in a way that is not overbearing to them. Remember I have been told that they don't even like discussing anything about this sitch, and they certainly don't ask me anything.

What I have understood is:
- You have given W this D the way she wanted it.
Not yet divorced, but I have allowed the W to initiate everything at her pace and request. All I have done is agreed to it or answered her solicitor.
- You have paid W money and that way you kept the houses.
As part of the agreement, once signed by the W, I will be paying out the W for the houses.
- The split was done fair according to attorneys, you and W
Only the W had the attorney/solicitor. I only got a solicitor to check over the legal paperwork before signing.
- Ws and her attorney made the outline for the agreement and you have accepted that
Yes that is correct.
- You see this splitting of assets as fair (do you?) � did W get her fair share?
No I didn't think it was fair, I have been very vocal with ex friend for many months before the ignoring, and also on this forum, stating that I was worried that the W wasn't being fair to herself in the split. That I was coming out smelling like roses. Again though, all I did was agree to what she wanted.

This is now turned around to you being selfish and that you mistreated W during the splitting of assets
Yes. Including the MIL saying that I should have also shared the W's cost for the solicitor (hers) and to pay for the binding financial agreement (again the W's doing). Again funny how the MIL didn't mention anything about the W being selfish and not paying any mortgages, insurances and registrations for the last 15 months.

If the above is how you feel about all of this, then I would consider having a talk with W about the things that are said about you. I would consider saying �enough is enough� and tell her to get the truth out there NOW and if she doesn�t then I would also consider having a talk with sons about this.
As much as I want to blame the W, this could still be just the MIL making assumptions. If I contact the W stating this, then I worry that she could make last minute changes to the paperwork that would cost me more money.

I (and that�s only me) believe I would be able to cope with the IL talking me down but if this came to my children being told lies about me and how I handled this � I would get furious and I understand why you �lost it�
Again I cannot prove that MIL is telling the truth or just making it sound worse by stating the sons feel that I am selfish.

HWA, do NOT storm out and do this now! Get the VETs onboard in this because the above could be totally wrong � apply MUCH time before you do ANYTHING because once done�..

(You have always had a tendency of reacting very quickly � do NOT do that this time! Take your time to digest this! DO NOT REACT BEFORE YOU ARE ABSOLUTE SURE AND HAVE ALL THE ADVICE YOU CAN GET!!!)

Yes I have in the past acted too quickly. This time I got angry, controlled it, wrote to the forums for help and am prepared to sit back and wait for replies on how to move forward, whatever way that is.

Originally Posted By: HWA

She asked "well what would you say if W wanted to change things now?". I answered back that would be between W and I.

IMHO: Perfect answer!
Thank you, I do get some things right occasionally.

F

Laurie: no reply from the W after 3 days with regards to the thank you text. Depending on what or whether the MIL speaks to her, maybe I won't get anymore texts.

So my question, especially to the vets. How do I deal with that attitude of being selfish over the splitting of assets (according to MIL) with regards to my sons and the MIL belief that they think I am selfish as well?
1. Do I ignore the MIL and wait for if/when the sons might ask me about the splitting of assets?
2. Do I actually ask them what they think? How should I put that question to them? And this is where I need help. How do I discuss this in a way that is not overbearing to them. Remember I have been told that they don't even like discussing anything about this sitch, and they certainly don't ask me anything.
3. Do I speak to the W and ask why the MIL and maybe sons feel this way, when all I have done is agree to what she wants/wanted?
4. Continue on my path of trying to improve and say nothing to no one?

ps: I did just text the sons saying I hope they had a great weekend and both replied positively.

Hot, this is NO ONE's business but you and your W's. Plz don't give in to be nice. Do what you need to do to protect yourself and yours sons' futures. It doesn't matter if they don't understand right now, they will.

If they have questions, then answer them, if they don't then they probably don't need the details anyways. There is no such thing as playing nice in a divorce, in fact, they're playing dirty already by saying the things they're saying.

Separate emotions from this or else. This a business transaction. Would you go buy a car and give the salesman all he was asking for in the process? Why would you give your rights away now. If you think your already giving away to much, then you are, period.

I've seen this first hand, place nice, and you'll regret it down the road. They don't care if your nice right now, they just want MORE. No matter what your starting point is, they'll ask for even more. Come to terms with this fast, or you'll be paying a lot longer than you think you will.

Thanks Flyonthewall, but I am ok with the business side of things. I have/am buying the houses from the W solely for my and sons future (something we both had planned). I won't be giving in to be nice to her.
Yes, they are playing dirty. They are the ones who are saying nasty things, doing nasty things and not caring about the circumstances.
So I will repeat this: I was nice and agreed to what the W wanted. Yes I was very lucky, she wanted very little (her choice). But that does not mean that if she had her solicitor draw up another legal document wanting more, that I would roll over and have my tongue fall out.
If anything, I cannot do anything more at this stage. I have signed the documents based on what the W wanted (very little) and all she needs to do is sign them herself. End of story. It will only change if she wants to redo the legal documents. In all honesty I don't expect it, because she wants it over with asap. She also isn't listening to her family, so whatever MIL says will go in one ear and out the other.

My main focus is dealing with my boys, especially in the wake of the MIL saying that they think I am selfish.

Quote:

If they have questions, then answer them, if they don't then they probably don't need the details anyways.

That is kind of how I have been acting for quite a few months, and agree that it is a good way to continue.

Originally Posted By: hotwheelsaust

So my question, especially to the vets. How do I deal with that attitude of being selfish over the splitting of assets (according to MIL) with regards to my sons and the MIL belief that they think I am selfish as well?

I wouldn't say anything to your S's about it, I doubt they share your MIL's misguided opinion of you. Just continue to show your S's through your actions who you really are.

I think your explanation to MIL was good, and I do not think her comments deserved validation. I think you did everything just fine- you kept your cool, explained your side and showed her the door. That's about all you can do!

Hello hotwheel, I am new in this forum but well I can read your history and maybe help you out a little.

Relationships could be very complicated or easy going, its like work, there are always things that we have to improve...
But at the same time we have to be honest with ourselves and love ourselves, you have to love you right now.

It seems that you have lost all the self confidence that you had once in yourself and you are taking ABUSE from the family of your wife, and you know why they are treating you like that?
Because you are the first one who is doing that to yourself.

Be gentle and accept the situation, your W has accepted her xexual orientation and you CANT change that and its not something that she might be confuse about it, and if she is only time will tell, now you are distracted and not focus, you cant see that your kids are more important just because the selfish vision that comes up everytime that we split with somebdody is blocking you....

Time to move on and think, ok she is gay and probably all the time she was in relationships with men it was really hard and made her suffer a lot. So congratulate her and help her by letting go, this is not an affair its a sexual orientation and she is not gonna change that.
Its not like you like the Yankees and suddenly things change and you like other team, this is more deep, she was probably playing a role...going to church, getting married and having kids to make everybody believe that is what she wanted, she is the one who soffered here for probably a long time.

In the same way its not your responsibility or your fault, go ahead and answer her text messages you don't need anymore 180 here, you just need to heal and start taking care of yourself, probably soon you will be able to start with somebody else, and cut contact with her family, at the end this problem is your problem and her problem, nobody else.

you can do that, your situation even if you don't see it now its pretty easy, so just be gentle again with yourself and show empathy for what she probably soffered all this years, maybe that conversation with her will be the one who lead you to a heal, take her for a coffee and ask her how it was her childhood if she knew she was gay years ago and how she was able to deal with that, have a good journey my friend.

Thanks AS, I have to act and think very carefully when it involves my sons. Both are quite fragile with emotions, and I think they are hearing so much from the family. So definitely don't need to hear anything more from me.
As was said earlier by Flyonthewall, if they want answers, then they will eventually ask.
I just finished a book I picked up at the library a few weeks ago: Parents who cheat by Ana Nogales. It was very enlightening about what the sons are going through. It talks about ways the kids not take sides, but deal with both parties. It also talks about how any marriage break-up affects all the kids, no matter what age they are.

ye21, thank you for joining in and having something to say. It is appreciated. You are right about the self confidence, it has gone. With so many people who were important to me, over the last 15 months constantly putting me down and continually telling me I am not doing anything right. It does simply get to you. It does make you feel, you cannot say or doing anything right.
I would like the chance to show empathy to the W, but at this time in life, I don't think she is prepared or wants to spend any time together, to allow that.
It is a guilt trip for her, and that is why we have had very little conversation and face to face time. She is feeling very guilty about it all.
I am trying to find that happy place where I can move on, but without the loss of hope or love for the W. Hopefully I will find it one day.

Mmmmm. My brother is having an ILYBIDLY moment with his defacto off over 17 years. Well the W wrote something on his Facebook page "there are people out there who love you, just remember that!".
Very strange behaviour considering she hasn't spoken to my brother since before BD and certainly never written anything on his Facebook page before.

No mindreading, just thought I would add this to my timeline.

Though a little birdie did tell me the W isn't having the best of times at the moment with the OW.

Did someone say WAS script?

HWA,

Yes. Emotions and thoughts will fluctuate with the WAS. Which is why MWD emphasizes in DR to "believe none of what they say, but look to their actions." I think you're starting to get DBing and understanding the underlying principles in the DR book. A slow learner, but you're doing mighty fine!

I'm thinking, sitting from my own perch, that W is probably feeling sadness over missing out on family. So she's indirectly reaching out to you via BIL. Take this as a good sign on W's thawing out. In due course, she will reconnect with the family. It is just that you're on her timeline. Sloweee.

Keep your focus on your boys...it takes a while to earn their trust with consistent actions. Have you thought about doing some fun, joint activities with them like going out for a hike. This provides excellent bonding time for you guys. Whatcha think?

Wonka, thank you for the kind words.
Normally I am a person who once interested in a subject goes full on about that item. I will buy lots of books, read up on the Internet and spend a lot of time being involved in it.
With DB I did the same, but the outcome or timeline, as you said, is so much slower, and I mess it up.
So when I have to wait at least 48 hours to reply to the W, I struggle with it, wanting to reply asap.
But I am getting there. I am learning to wait and take my time.

I do try things with the boys, offer some outings, but should offer some better choices. Will see what can be done. The only hard thing is youngest son works shift over the week, and is given his times/roster with only a few days notice. So very hard to plan any future activity.

As per our talk a week or so ago. I will still text the W this coming Tuesday, being her first day back at school. I was going to text something along the lines of:

"W, hope it is a great school year for you. Wishing you a class of beautiful children, if not, then I am sure you will make them into a beautiful class. HWA. "

Good/bad?

HWA,

Even I DO trip up occasionally.

As for the text, make it focus on W and boost her a bit. The key in initiating texts with W the first few times is to keep them short. In my case with Ms. Wonka, my texts were very short and to the point. Now, after some time had passed, our texts are a bit longer and more jovial.

If I were you, I'd rework the text a bit more. You might want to say something about being an awesome teacher. There's no guarantee that they'll be "beautiful children"...they may be a rowdy bunch this year. In DBing, it is all about the spouse...make it the focus. Let's face it...we all like WOA from time to time, right?

Do you see where I'm driving at here?

Get it Wonka. So focus on W and boost her up more:

"W, hope it is a great school year for you. The lucky kids to get you as their fantastic teacher. HWA"

OR

"W, hope you have a fantastic school year. You are a wonderful teacher and I am sure your kids will appreciate so much of you. HWA"

I vote for the first option.

Thank you Wonka, I will send that next Tuesday the first day of school, or possibly Monday night so she can see it without the first day stress.

I think both sound good HWA, although I think there's a grammar slip in the first:

"The lucky kids to get you as their fantastic teacher."

Maybe you meant "The kids are lucky to..."?

Just remember when you send it- NO EXPECTATIONS!!! It may get no response at all and you've got to be OK with that. Send it expecting no response, do it because it's what YOU want to do. Then if it does get a response, cool. If it doesn't, no biggie.

AnotherStander, that is why I am a PE teacher rather than classroom teacher, it does sound better:
"W, hope it is a great school year for you. The kids are lucky to get you as their fantastic teacher. HWA"

Yes, definitely no expectations at all. Don't expect an answer, if I get one, great.

Ok, just an update: Have received two texts within 24 hours. Haven't replied to the second text yet.

First text: "Hotwheelsaust, I have just found you are internet dating. How dare you write to me about how you will stand for you marriage and vows and try to make me feel like I have no values (? don't understand this one). I will be contacting my solicitor this week to check you have signed and returned the agreement. I will be paying you nothing (? again she never was to pay me anything) other than paying for the financial agreement.

I sent a text back validating her anger. With some explanation on why I did it and I have no communication with her for so long that I simply have no idea about anything to do with our marriage anymore. I asked if we could talk. I replied (2 x 4's) with a fair amount of I care and I love you's.

Second text: "Hotwheelsaust, I wasn't mad that you are internet dating as you are free to date and see anyone you want because we are separated. I was mad because you said you are standing for the marriage and vows. I know it is hard, lonely etc so I have no right to expect you not to date anyone. You don't seem to realise how bad things had become in our marriage and that it had become a form of abuse. I see a councilor and a pyshologist and im working through things with them. The thing you can do for me is sign and return the form to give me some financial freedom so I can make choices about where I may live next year. As it is now it puts me in limbo while you have the houses and assets and I don't have anything. Doing nothing just makes it harder on us both".

Ok, how to respond, if I should. Couple of things: Do I mention the standing and vows are still important? The abuse she is talking about would be the passive/aggressive attitude I had. The forms have been signed and should have been sent last week by the solicitor. She is talking about living somewhere different next year, big difference to staying for ever in the country. She is in limbo? The paperwork only arrived to me, just before Xmas.

Not sure how things work down under, I assume the "form" she's talking about is D-related? If so, have you been dragging your heels on it? If you have then I would quit trying to delay the inevitable, if you agree with the terms then sign it and send it back. Reply with something simple like "W, I signed and returned the form. I wish you the best." Then go back to being dark.

HWA,

Wow...your W has given a great gift here with tons of information as to her thought process and view of the marriage.

This is hard sometimes having to think on your feet and feel that you have to respond fast to placate W's angry texts. Did they require an immediate response? No. It is good to sit back and gather your thoughts. Then COME here for some feedback on the appropriate responses.

Let's dissect W's texts to give you some greater understanding on W's POV.

"Hotwheelsaust, I have just found you are internet dating. How dare you write to me about how you will stand for you marriage and vows and try to make me feel like I have no values. I will be contacting my solicitor this week to check you have signed and returned the agreement. I will be paying you nothing other than paying for the financial agreement.

W is calling out on what she perceives to be hypocrisy on your part. 1) Telling her that you are standing for the marriage while you are signed up on an online dating site 2) Scolding her about the OW (this gets to her main point about values). You are judging her. How dare you? That is her main thrust.

As for the payment, it looks like she does not want to pay you "alimony" to you or have to split assets with you. She does not have any facts to back this up since there's been no analysis of what assets you owe, joint debt, etc.

"Hotwheelsaust, I wasn't mad that you are internet dating as you are free to date and see anyone you want because we are separated. I was mad because you said you are standing for the marriage and vows. I know it is hard, lonely etc so I have no right to expect you not to date anyone. You don't seem to realise how bad things had become in our marriage and that it had become a form of abuse. I see a councilor and a pyshologist and im working through things with them. The thing you can do for me is sign and return the form to give me some financial freedom so I can make choices about where I may live next year. As it is now it puts me in limbo while you have the houses and assets and I don't have anything. Doing nothing just makes it harder on us both".

Do you really hear what W is telling you here? She is expressing disappointment that you've let her down with your "expressed" commitment to stand by her and M with the internet dating thing. She's really watching your actions for consistency. And she's not seeing that. Remember my advice about actions and words being congruent? That is what you really need to focus on going forward in your interactions with W and sons.

W is telling you that she felts that she tried to tell you that the marriage was going into the crapper and she felt unheard so she felt that she had no choice but to walk away. She's in a world of hurt and pain right now.

Breaking away from you is something that she needs to do at the moment to heal. She's acting on her own emotions. Just let her be and allow her the time & space to process her feelings, thoughts, and emotions about you and the marriage.

As for the financials, you do need to protect yourself by discussing options with your lawyer that is fair and reasonable to you. I'd review the options first before having your lawyer present them to W and her L.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HWA, you responded to the first text:

'I sent a text back validating her anger. With some explanation on why I did it and I have no communication with her for so long that I simply have no idea about anything to do with our marriage anymore. I asked if we could talk. I replied (2 x 4's) with a fair amount of I care and I love you's.'

Remember validating does not equate with pursuing. You came across as pursuing by throwing in ILYs and care about yous. And explaining "stuff" just does not help at all. Oftentimes it just muddies the waters further.

Here's what I would suggest in responding to W's texts:

"W, thank you for sharing your thoughts about the marriage. I know it cannot be easy for you at all and it took tremendous courage on your part to do this. Wow, I didn't realize that you thought the marriage was a form of "abuse" to you. I appreciate you being so open and honest with me. To be clear, I do not want a divorce, but will not stand in your way. Let me get back to you later today/tomorrow on the form. Have a good day. HWA"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What 'form' is W referring to here? With this information, we can brainstorm ideas here on how to go forward on it.

AnotherStander and Wonka, thank you both for replying.
I don't have much time to write a reply to all that has been said, but will give you the info about the "form".

The "form" is a paperwork called a binding financial agreement. It is issued by the solicitor of one party and is an agreement to how the assets are split. This will usually cost around $3 to $5 thousand dollars to be issued.

The W advised me way back in June she is doing this, but I did not get the actual paperwork until Mid December.

I have not held off delaying it at any time. The first time I could see my solicitor to have it signed was the 16th Jan, which I advised the W. It was signed that day, the solicitor does a standard letter and sends it off to the W's solicitor. That's it.

I have done everything the W has asked for. I have not held up or delayed any paperwork that was required of me. I have not fought or complained about any of the splitting of assets. I have not demanded money from the W. (So I didn't understand the first text where she mentioned she won't be paying me nothing). All I have done is agreed to what she wanted as part of the splitting of assets, which was very little. She did not want either houses, the new car, furniture, white goods, electrical......nothing.

I will reply later to the other things. Thanks again.

HWA,

Have you sent a response to W's text yet?

Wonka no I haven't replied yet. I will be working on the reply tonight and posting it up her for approval.

Also Wonka, with this latest development, do I still send the text that we talked about last week? It was due to go in about 4 days time.

HWA,

I think it is more important to respond to W's most recent texts. As for the wishing her a good school year, I'd shelf that for the time being. W needs to feel heard at the moment with her feelings.

Wonka, this is the reply I was looking at sending. Part of your example and part Fartiltre example.

"W, thank you for sharing your thoughts about the marriage. I know it cannot be easy for you at all and it took tremendous courage on your part to do this. I didn't realize that you thought the marriage was a form of "abuse" to you. I appreciate you being so open and honest with me. To be clear, I do not want a divorce, but will not stand in your way.
I did sign the papers with my solicitor on the 16th Jan. They should have been mailed to you. If that is not the case then please let me know and I will look into this. I hope this will help you out of the limbo because nobody wants to be there. HWA

HWA,

This is good. The last part is a nonstarter.

Original:

I did sign the papers with my solicitor on the 16th Jan. They should have been mailed to you. If that is not the case then please let me know and I will look into this. I hope this will help you out of the limbo because nobody wants to be there. HWA

Revision:

The papers were signed on January 16th with the solicitor and sent out. HWA

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Say nothing about limbo as it is W's view and she needs to own her emotions.

Wonka:

So the message will be:
"W, thank you for sharing your thoughts about the marriage. I know it cannot be easy for you at all and it took tremendous courage on your part to do this. I didn't realize that you thought the marriage was a form of "abuse" to you. I appreciate you being so open and honest with me. To be clear, I do not want a divorce, but will not stand in your way.
The papers were signed on January 16th with the solicitor and sent out. HWA

Thanks Wonka. I will send that text tomorrow morning, as it is now midnight. I don't think the W would appreciate the text at this time. :-)

Want to add here that since you've signed the papers and sent them out, the ball is squarely in W's court.

Yes Wonka, the ball is in her court. If she now signs the papers, she agrees still on her choice in the splitting of assets ( I haven't fought her on anything, just the value of the houses, which the bank valued for me) and all she needs to do, is not sign the paperwork to stop the assets being split. While I have made mistakes along this track with relation to the DB principles not being done as well as I could have/should have, I certainly didn't make any mistakes with regards to the actual separation, moving out and then the legal aspect of this sitch.

Sounds like a good response HWA. Just remember, no expectations! You probably won't hear back from her, because I think she was just making contact to check on the progress of the form. Back to working on you

Agree ^^^

Send the text and put the focus back on you!

Before I send this, I had been thinking over night about this one line:
I do not want a divorce, but will not stand in your way.

While the W is probably heading in this direction. Divorce has not been discussed, nor has paperwork been sent to solicitors.
Therefore should this subject be brought up by me? Should the sentence be more:
I do not want to split the assets, but will not stand in you way.
?????????

Again, trying to think more sensible rather than emotional.

HWA,

You're over thinking this text response.

The process of divorce is the splitting of assets, right? It stands to reason that you don't want a divorce, right? Then stick with the "I don't want a divorce, but won't stand in your way" line. This is your way of making your stance known to the WAS, but are not controlling or interfering with their choices. It is the sensible thing here.

Thank you for the quick response. Trying not to over think, it was just something that came to me when I woke up.
Again, the way you explain it, is fair and logical.

Text has been sent.

Well the reply was:
"thank you for letting me know. I will check with the solicitor to make sure he has the paperwork on Tuesday"

HWS, I just wanted to comment on your W�s texts. It seems that she does care, even a little. Also, I see a little bit of pity party (limbo thing). She also kind of lets you know that she might not be living there next year. And about the councilor� She knows she has some issues. So, I don�t know what other people think, but in my opinion she kind of has a door open a little. I might not see something here, but it sa my impression when I read her texts.

Thank you BrightFuture, without mindreading or having more hope than I should. I also see the door being open a little. Combined with the little birdie that told me the W is having some issues with the OW, and why she is seeing a counselor and psychologist in the last few months, which started nearly a year after BD. Most people would see them at BD time.

Agree about the mindreading, but this is the only choice we have, all of us on this board with very limited contact with WAS. My guess is that she thought that her M was bad and she thought that a new life with OW would be the solution. Maybe the initial excitement wore out and she is not happy again, this is why a counselor and psychologist are involved.

I liked the comment that Wonka posted, that your W probably wants to see some consistency from you. Also, I�ve noticed that every time you say these �I love you�s she retreats back into her hole. I think you said it enough, she knows that you love her. Maybe you need to stop doing it and let her figure out what she wants. It seems like she�s been trying to do it.

Yes I agree that the "I love you's" do tend to send her back into the hole. I have decided, and yes it took long enough, to stop replying with emotion, but to you use a lot more commonsense and DB approach.

I do think she is finding out little by little, that the grass wasn't greener on the other side of the fence.

Wonka, do I send the W the text for her first day at school tomorrow?

"W, hope it is a great school year for you. The kids are lucky to get you as their fantastic teacher. HWA"

I would vote Yes on this. Let�s see what others will say. Hopefully Wonka will chime in as well.

HWA,

The text sounds good...I'd send it to W.

Wonka, with 3 hours to spare, as I wanted it sent before she started class. Thank you, the text will be sent. And with no expectations.

HWA, that your W is seeing a counselor at all is huge. Mine refused 7 years ago, and refuses now. She's deeply depressed, but won't seek help or even talk about anything.

True Milehigh, but the W seeing the counselor could also be because she is involved with another woman rather than worrying/working out the marriage.

Text reply came back from W two minutes after sending it: Thnx. Hope u hav good day too.

Something I noticed since she started texting the OW, is how her texts are all shortened now. I know that is standing texting, but as teachers the W and I have always spelt the words the correct way when texting.

So Wonka, do you suggest the next text would be around her birthday? It is the 11th March.

"Something I noticed since she started texting the OW, is how her texts are all shortened now. I know that is standing texting, but as teachers the W and I have always spelt the words the correct way when texting. "

I've notice the same thing. My ex adds hyphens all over the place now. It's weird seeing such mundane behavior like this change.

Thanks for joining in 2ndTimeHurt. Maybe it was the obscene amount of texts the W sends to the OW that made her abbreviate everything.

Could be... Or maybe ow isn't very bright and your w had to dumb down her texts and it's becoming a nasty habit.

The OW is a teacher also, but yes you could be right, the W could be dumbing down the texts for that reason.

Originally Posted By: 2ndTimeHurt

"Something I noticed since she started texting the OW, is how her texts are all shortened now. I know that is standing texting, but as teachers the W and I have always spelt the words the correct way when texting. "

I've notice the same thing. My ex adds hyphens all over the place now. It's weird seeing such mundane behavior like this change.

Could this simply be due to the fact that they have increased 1000% in the number of texts they send, and thereby found out that the way all other people that texts a lot do this is in fact quicker and easier

Yes F, that is the way I do think. Simply, a lot of texts and therefore modified words to make it quicker and to fit more words into the limit of a text.

HWA,

Texting has acquired it's own language with acronyms and short letters. That's the reality we live in now.

As for sending W a HBD text around her birthday, it would be nice IF NOTHING changes between now to then. A lot could happen in a month. If I were you, I'd put the focus on the next party for your son and DIL. Isn't it in February, right?

Yes Wonka, you are right, February for the future DIL's 21st. The focus will be on that, then we can talk about the next focus :-)

Thanks very much Wonka for all the continued help.

Dear HWA,
I checked in on you a week ago to catch up. It has appeared your dear friend Wonka has carefully and wisely walked with you so far. Now, to move your focus toward your son and (soon-to-be) DIL sounds like a positive focus.

Yes Laurie, I feel very priviliged to have Wonka and yourself following and helping me. The focus has to be on my boys, that is the important part of my life now.
All I can continue to do with them, is text and let them know I am thinking about them. Offer at times to come and visit, without constantly being on their backs about visiting. Ask questions about their lives, their things they are doing. Help them if and when necessary.

Had a visit to the ex friends house yesterday, to organise picking up the stuff being stored there.
So a couple of things were discussed:
* It seems both sons are happier with me not talking about the W.
* They both enjoyed the BBQ the other week
* The oldest son is very disappointed in W's actions and attitude
* The ex friend knew about the MIL planning to come over and rip into me. He and most of the other family members felt it was wrong for her to do that, and importantly, her views are not really justified :-)
* The family are starting to really see the smoke screen the W has put up. They are starting to see that the views, opinions and comments she has made over the last 15 months, are not necessarily true.

So overall, it doesn't change where I am at the moment (in a happy place), nor does it change my sitch. Just the knowledge that things are being see in the background.

Also had a first date yesterday. Just a get to know the other person walk, talk and coffee. Have no expectations, but was simply nice to have some company and have some interest being shown to me.

Originally Posted By: hotwheelsaust

* It seems both sons are happier with me not talking about the W.

Yup, it is uncomfortable for them to be put on the spot between their Mom and Dad. They love both of you and it's hard to hear one parent talk negatively about the other.

So want to be my STFU Ballroom dance partner?!! Then dust off your tuxedo and drop your PE teacher's whistle for a night. We'll have a grand time twirling around the nice, hardwood ballroom floor.

Hey, have you had a chance to talk with your son and DIL about the party yet? How's that going so far? You might want to ask them what they'd like to see happen and then you make that stuff happen within reason. Boy, before you know it, the date will be right around the corner.

Wonka, would love to dust off the tuxedo and twirl around the floor with you :-)
I did speak to the son and DIL, when they were here for the bbq. Simply stated that I would love to attend and that I would not say or do anything that would make them embarrassed or ashamed. I said that I am attending for them to celebrate DIL 21st and it didn't matter if their mum attended or not, it would not make any difference to me or how I acted.
I am feeling quite comfortable about the party and I know that it won't be an emotional worry that I thought might have occurred a few weeks ago.

So I know now, to as you said, STFU about anything to do with the W while talking to the boys.

Onto my second date this Friday night now :-) with the same lovely lady. DB has certainly helped me there.

Dear HWA,
I know you walked this journey with patience and integrity. So, it can be nice to receive some acknowledgement from others, isn't it?

It also seems positive and proactive to have that talk to reassure your son and future dil. It very well may have alleviated some of their questions or concerns. Well done.

Laurie, thank you again. It is nice to receive that acknowledgement that others are starting to see the W's smokescreen now. Not that it is some race that we are competing in, but more for my own integrity.
Yes, both the son and DIL would be feeling so much better knowing that I am going to the party with no intention of causing any fuss or issues. They will be able to look back at the 21st party last November and see that I am capable of doing that.
It also helps to be in such a better point in life with the emotions around the sitch.

HWA,

W's smokescreen now. Not that it is some race that we are competing in, but more for my own integrity.

Careful there, buddy. You are just a millimeter away from the superiority slippery slope. It would be good to be mindful of it and scorekeeping as well. She's simply on her own path that she feels compelled to walk on for whatever reasons.

Whatcha thinkin' about DIL's gift? Have you given this any thought?

Thanks Wonka. I am not trying to come across as being superior to the W. It was just nice to hear that others are seeing both sides to the sitch better.
I do agree, she is on her own path, right or wrong, it is still her choice how she goes along that track.

Yes, I have been thinking about the gift. It is hard to buy 21st these days. Anyway at Xmas time I did ask the son if she liked tea, his reply came to late for that pressie, but I remembered it today. So we have some lovely tea shops around our area. So will look at buying her a nice unique tea pot with a variety of different teas.

You are more than welcome Wonka to hit me with those 2 x 4's if you think I am starting to one up myself too much :-)

Just an update.
Third date tomorrow, a full day out bushwalking, picnic and country shops.
The lovely lady is making up a picnic lunch, I am bringing chocolates for desert and we are going to discuss where we are heading (mutual decision).
I have learnt so much from DB, and it is great using those ideals daily, without most times thinking if it is right or wrong.
While it might only be the 3rd date, we have spent many hours chatting on the phone over the last week or so.
It has to determine whether dropping the rope allowed me to show and become interested in someone, or whether meeting someone has allowed me to drop the rope easier.
Whichever, I feel a heck of a lot better that I was only weeks ago. I feel alive again. Enjoying each day and looking forward to the next day.
I have reached that point, where truthfully I could not answer whether I would want my W back again. I just feel that she has hurt me so much, that no matter how much work we both did, I don't think I would feel the same towards her. Then on top of that, her new (horrible) personality, ignoring the friends, the lack of real motherly care and concern for her sons. Also the way she treated her s21 and myself over his 21st and then engagement.
I have decided that I am moving ahead with this new lady. I will be putting all my effort into a good healthy relationship with her, but also keeping in the back of my mind the things I need to work on about me and with that us.
I won't be telling my sons, until the time comes that I know it has reached that "looks like it is going very well and going long term" time.
In the meantime, I will continue to text the W every so often, as per Wonka's suggestions. Also I am comfortable about doing this. I will reply to her if and when she texts me.
It is just so much easier for me and my health to not worry about her now. Not to worry about what she is up to, who she is with, or what weird thing she is doing or done. I don't need to check with the family what she has been doing, and that is such a huge weight off my shoulders.
I am happy. I am moving on. I am accepting I no longer have any control what the W does or why she does it. I really don't care what she does anymore. She has made her choice over 15 months ago, and really she hasn't waivered one bit. Now it is my turn to make my choice, and that is to move on and see where this new relationship might end up.

I will continue to post, just don't know how often.
I will inform all how the DIL 21st goes, that is only two weeks away. And no, the new friend will not be coming. As much as she loves camping and would be in her element there. I also would think it is disrespecting my son, his fiance, my youngest son, the W's family and friends. There will be a better time to introduce her.

"And no, the new friend will not be coming. As much as she loves camping and would be in her element there. I also would think it is disrespecting my son, his fiance, my youngest son, the W's family and friends. There will be a better time to introduce her."

Excellent HWA, not the time for her around your sons just yet. Just take it slow with her if it's meant to be it will work out........

HWA,

Thanks for the update! It sounds like you've got your bearings pretty good and starting to live your live as you see fit. That's a great way to begin the year.

Originally Posted By: hotwheelsaust

I will inform all how the DIL 21st goes, that is only two weeks away. And no, the new friend will not be coming. As much as she loves camping and would be in her element there. I also would think it is disrespecting my son, his fiance, my youngest son, the W's family and friends. There will be a better time to introduce her.

This is a very perceptive thing to do, HWA. A smart choice on your part. Well done!

Thank you 2old and Wonka.

hello wonka!! been awhile since i've heard from you.....hope all is well with you...dont know if you have looked in on my postings of late...ice bergs are still drifting in.....

2old.....

HWS, good to know that you feel better and happier. The only thing I don�t understand is that you say you are moving on with your life and don�t care what your W does anymore. Why would you continue to text her once in a while then?

Well I suppose in a way, I still think the whole thing hasn't finished well. So it would be nice, and it is acceptable for me, to form a friendship with the W.
Earlier, I would never have wanted to form that friendship, but I feel in a way I forgive her much more these days. I feel in a better place, knowing that at this time in life, we aren't R, but that I can accept that.
While I am moving on (by that, dating) and I am no longer worrying about what the W is doing, saying or going, there is always that small hope in the back of the mind that says maybe she may come out of the fog or whatever. And at that time in life, I may or may not be in another relationship.
So an occasional text every couple of weeks or so, isn't going to cause any issues or harm to me or my mental state.
It is that chipping at the iceberg with a small teaspoon.

I received paperwork from the solicitor today, advising that the W has signed off on the binding financial agreement, with no changes. Therefore in 28 days I will own the properties and all furnishing, electrical, garden, garage and storage container stuff. She will get the old car, the jet ski and a small amount of cash.
All her own choice. I didn't ask, alter or fight for anything.
I hope this makes her happy now.
Me, I don't really feel anything, it is just something that happened. Neither happy or sad over it. Just nice to know I have control over the mortgages now.

HWA,

This is positive news and you can move forward knowing that this part is over with. How's the party coming along for your S & DIL?

Wonka, party is one week away today. Pig on a spit, I have my funny hat purchased. Still got to buy a pressie. Tossing up whether to drive convoy with the rest of the family 1.5 to 2 hours drive, from home, or to drive to the main town myself and meet up the convoy there. We then get an escort to the farm from town.
Looking forward to the party, actually have no worries at all about it.
It is positive news about the paperwork for the houses. At this stage it means the W is still happy in her own way with what she is doing. She again has made the choice to initiate this and then to sign the assets away. I can now start paying off the house a bit quicker.
Life is good, I feel good, and I am enjoying work more than I have over the years.

Well the party is over. Great time was had. I drove in convey with my oldest son and his friends, no other family members. Arrived at the farm, where the SIL and ex best friend had already arrived. Said hello and was cheerful.
The W turned up about 1 hour later with the MIL, FIL and OW. Instantly the rest of the family turned to them and made them feel welcomed. I was setting up my tent, the W walked past about 20m away and simply said "hello".
That was our whole conversation for the Saturday afternoon, night and Sunday morning. She didn't say goodbye.
I have gotten to the point where I simply don't care anymore. I don't have much emotion for her, what she does or for the family. Apart from my two sons.
In one breath, members of the family say they don't like the OW, but certainly don't show it when laughing and giggling the whole time of the party with her.
I have lost my love for the woman I was married to for nearly 23 years. I look at her and don't see anything worth fighting for anymore.
I have a new life now.

HWA,

Catching up here a bit. I have been on a rotation in taking care of my 86-year old grandmother who got hurt in a bad fall.

Glad to hear that the party went well.

You need to realize that your family and friends may have felt awkward around OW as well. Don't mind read too much into their interactions with the OW. The party was for DIL and there is no way they would want tension and conflict during the event, right?

I can understand where you are at now having progressed for so long in DBing and you have come very far in the journey. It is all about you now and what kind of man/father you want to be going forward.

How's your new life going for you these days?

Please do drop an update here when you get the chance.

Sorry to hear about your grandmother, Wonka. It is never nice at that age to be in a fall.
Wonka, appreciate those kind words you wrote. I suppose I could be mindreading about the family/friends with regards to the OW, but it didn't really seem an awkward moment for them. They were very happy to talk to her/with her either as a group or singular.
The W's parents went out to the Dolly Parton concert the night before with the W and OW. It really is like she is part of the family. Doesn't matter to me, just simply stating what I saw and believe.
Life for me is going well. I was transferred into a great school, good admin and fellow teachers. I am happy going to work each day.

On the more personal side, I met someone through online dating about 1 month ago. We are seeing each other 2 or 3 times each week and getting to know each other quite well. Whether meeting a new woman has made it easier to drop the rope on the W, I don't know. Or have I simply dropped the rope on the W, whether or not there is a new woman?

I have been putting a lot of DB effort into the start of this relationship. Trying to learn by my past mistakes, but also, demonstrate and use the things I have learnt in the last 15 months. I listen, validate, stop thinking about myself and don't rush anything. All those things I could do when I was the LBS, now being done with/to someone who is becoming more important to me each day.

With regards to the W, I don't really know how to continue with or about her. I don't know whether to send a text every so often, or to simply just do nothing. Actually Wonka, it would be great to have some incite into your mind, since reading a while ago your sitch.
If you don't mind Wonka. How did you deal with having a relationship with someone else, while still caring for your W? Was it about dropping the rope, moving on, but still having that love/care in the back of your mind? Was it something in your mind that always said you would take her back?
Was the new relationship never going to be "it all", because you still cared for the W?

My solicitor advised yesterday that all legal paperwork has been done. I will be taking over the both properties within the next few days, depending on how quick the bank acts.
The MIL met my mum at the shops yesterday and continued having a go at my mum about my selfish behaviours. I am trying to remain calm about it all, but would like to ring the MIL up and give her a piece of my mind. But I won't.
It really pi***s me off that I get blamed for being selfish during this separation, when I have paid for all the bills, didn't fight any of the asset splitting and even allowed the W to share in half of the tax refund ($16k) when legally she didn't need to get it. Yes I agree the W isn't getting a fair share of the assets, but that is her doing, she started the proceedings and sent the request to me. Again, there is nothing I can do about the MIL's view over this. She probably knows the truth, but has to blame someone. And that someone is me, the easiest target, or so she thinks, because I am not showing her that it gets to me.
So that is my life in a few sentences at the moment. Didn't think I would ever be like this, based on only a few months ago. I didn't think I would ever get past the W walking out of my life. But I look back and think, there was probably no chance in hell of any R, since she was most likely in the affair before BD. She still hasn't admitted to anyone, or shown the relationship to anyone (ie, holding hands in public).
I am deciding when to tell my boys about the new woman in my life. My big birthday (50th) is coming up in the middle of May, so I am sure she will be part of that, along with my sons. So will need to discuss with them beforehand.

HWA - you sound good, all in all. Glad to see that things are moving forward for you. Luke

Thanks LuckyLuke, I do feel good now. It has taken quite a while to get to this point.

HWA,

You got through this intact! That is something to celebrate after seeing W and the OW together. You made it through to the other side! Yeessss, you did.

You ask:

Actually Wonka, it would be great to have some incite into your mind, since reading a while ago your sitch.
If you don't mind Wonka. How did you deal with having a relationship with someone else, while still caring for your W? Was it about dropping the rope, moving on, but still having that love/care in the back of your mind? Was it something in your mind that always said you would take her back?
Was the new relationship never going to be "it all", because you still cared for the W?

Dropping the rope doesn't mean you DON'T care about your spouse. Dropping the rope is not being anxious or reactive to the WAS' movements or lack thereof. It means that you are not overly invested in the process emotionally and you've found your balance. That is what dropping the rope means.

For me, I will always have a special love for Ms. Wonka tucked away in my heart. It has its own place. Acknowledging this is important. People think they have to stuff down this "love" or deny this "love" out of fear that they're not moving forward or of being "disloyal" to their next date/GF/BF...whatever. This is not the case at all.

When dating other people, the real challenge is not to compare them to your WAS. It is grossly and incredibly unfair to the new person. I think it is important to date as many people as you can after splitting up with your spouse so you're able to discern the personality characteristics, values, common interests, and other personal habits that reveal new things about your views of a potential future spouse. It is CRITICALLY important not to view your dates as potential Mrs. HWA for it makes you rush things and feel you have to marry right away. That is a bad move and will cause you more heartbreak. I have news for you: Rebound Marriages ALMOST never work. I've seen too many in RL to count on my hands....unfortunately.

In other words, you just have to put yourself out there and push yourself to date again. Otherwise, your heart will shrivel up from fear and lack of love. Then you'll become one of those CAT man or DOG man where you collect 30 dogs/cats in place of a companion.

Your choice, m' dear HWA.

P.S. The new relationship will never be "it all" because NO relationship is ever "be it all." That is setting the bar too high.

Thanks Wonka for the kind words. Yes, I did make it through, the W and OW didn't cause any issues to me.
I will always have that "special love" as you said for my W as well. It is good that love has it's own place, as I don't feel disloyal to the girlfriend.
One thing I have been doing, or not doing, is comparing the new girlfriend to the W. Thankfully they are very different, body type, height, hair colour, personality and attitudes (in a good way).
I am also not thinking of this woman as a future Mrs HWA. It may happen who knows, but it is not the plan. Not to mention based on her personality, that would probably be a very long way before that happens. If anything I don't have the need to "rebound" or feel a void of being married. I am enjoying, dating and spending time with the new woman and that is all.
The only thing I cannot do at this stage, is date as many people as possible. While I am with this woman, I won't date anyone else. If I am single again later (hopefully not), then I will date again. I do know what you mean Wonka by dating as many people as possible, and the scenario you put it in.
Please, I don't want to become a CAT or DOG person, so will continue to keep my heart going with good love.
The final thing was rather than the relationship being "it all", it was more meant as the question of when you were dating, did you have in your mind, this is enjoying some form of companionship and love, until the W comes back. Rather than just enjoying the companionship and love? Does that make sense?

I do thank you very much for the interest and support you have given over the last 2 months or so Wonka.

The W's birthday is next Tuesday. I have decided to send a simple message saying "Happy Birthday W, I hope you it's a great day." I would feel very uncomfortable and not a great person if I simply ignored her special day.