Last thread (
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2417000#Post2417000) got over 100 so I opted to just start a new one.
Here are both letters I plan to send to my MIL and FIL. Please provide and feedback or things I should remove.
Dear FIL,
Part of my recovery program includes the following three steps.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
I write to you today to make many apologies. I am sorry for emotionally harming you, your daughter, and your wife. I know I caused a lot of pain. I want to specifically apologize for an instance where I embarrassed you as a result of being intoxicated and that was at X’s wedding in San Diego. I imbibed too much and I was an embarrassment to you and your family. I apologize for behaving that way at the wedding. I also apologize for the night I went to Dave and Buster’s for the bachelor party with Y, Z and my friends. I came home inebriated and was not nice to anyone in front of my guests. I am sorry for that as well.
I also want to apologize for the way I treated your daughter and your wife in your own home that you so lovingly opened to me. I am sorry for being an ungrateful guest. I truly appreciated your generosity and your wisdom as you did your best to counsel me while walking with K.
I also want to apologize for a comment I made to Katy while you were away on a trip. I was talking to her about financial matters, and I made a comment that “a fool and his money are soon parted.” I don’t even know if you heard of it, but I know I said it, so I want to say that I am sorry for that as well. I think you did an amazing job saving, investing and preparing for your future. You made the sacrifice and served our country, and were able to save even on just one income. You are in no way a fool. I am sorry that phrase ever slipped out of my mouth.
I know that no apologies can make up for anything that has taken place. I can only let you know that moving forward I am committed to showing others love, not being an embarrassment, and trying to make all who know me proud to say they are associated with me.
I know that forgiveness is a process, not something that is just simply done one day. I ask that you do your best to forgive me for my transgressions. There is a chance that we may bump into one another around town, and I assure you I will treat you with love, dignity, and respect if I run into you or any of your family.
Sincerely and with love,
Me
Dear MIL,
Part of my recovery program includes the following three steps.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
I write to you to apologize for many things. First, I want to apologize for my actions directly related to drinking. I made a fool of myself and was an embarrassment to you at X’s wedding. I remember you showing me the pictures where I was making a stupid face in every picture and saying “that’s my son-in-law.” That was such an embarrassing moment for me. I cannot imagine how it made you feel to actually be at the wedding with people you knew and friends knowing who I was and that I was related to you while I acted like that. I am so sorry for embarrassing you, FIL, and W while intoxicated.
I also want to say how very sorry I am for how I treated you once we got here. I made you out to be the source of all my angst and problems. I know now the only person responsible for my happiness is me. I was trying to remove the speck from your eye before removing the log from my own. I have removed many logs from my eyes in the last few months.
I also want to apologize for how I treated your daughter. I know she is your best friend and that you love her immensely. FIL’s description of you being the mama bear is so apt, I know why you rallied around your cub. I also want to apologize for how I treated FIL, not showing him nearly enough respect in his own home. I have nothing but respect for FIL, and I am sorry that I ever showed anything but that.
I am also sorry that I did not show you respect in your own home. You mentioned once that “this is your house now” meaning you felt I had taken over. I understand why you felt that way. I am sorry for ever making you feel uncomfortable in your own home.
I also want to apologize for how I treated your sister M, and H when they were out to visit. There is no excuse for my actions or behaviors.
You also were instrumental in bringing me back to my faith and helping to give me a set of principles to live my life by. Like the prodigal son that lost it all, I have finally returned and I owe much of that to your perseverance and prayer for me. I am truly blessed that out of this situation I was able to re-kindle my relationship with Christ.
I know forgiveness is not something just given one day. It is an ongoing process, where when you think of my transgressions you will have to choose to forgive over and over. I ask for your forgiveness for my many inequities. If we should run into each other at some point I will treat you with love, dignity and respect.
Sincerely and lovingly,
Me
I'd say the letter could be shorter, my opinion/edit on the FIL letter:
Dear FIL,
Part of my recovery program is to make a list of the people I have harmed and make direct amends when possible.
I write to you today to apologize for the emotional harm and embarrassment I caused you at several events we attended as a family. My behavior was unacceptable and there was no excuse for my not exerting self control in my drinking, for which my poor words and actions were the direct result.
You also lovingly opened your home to me and my interactions with K and your wife were not always carried out with the utmost respect that they deserved. I truly appreciated all of your generosity and the wisdom that you have extended to me over the years. I respect you as a great man who sacrificed his life to serve our country, along with the sacrifices you continue to make to provide the best for your family.
I know that no apology can erase the past, I can only let you know that moving forward I am committed to showing others love and respect at all times and I hope that one day you can forgive me.
Sincerely and with love,
Me
Mimi, thanks for your thoughts on the edit, I'll have to think over the things you wrote, I like a lot of them. A bit more generic and I don't include the part about insulting him. Thanks for the feedback!
My opinion/edit on the MIL letter, sorry I didn't put it all in one post:
Dear MIL,
I am currently in a recovery program and as part of the program I am to make a list of the people I have harmed and make direct amends where possible.
I write to you to apologize for my actions directly related to my drinking at various past events we attend as a family. I cannot imagine how it made you feel to be in the presence of your friends and family while I acted in a way that was not commendable.
I also want to say how very sorry I am for how I treated you once K and I moved to the area. At times I acted as if you were the source of our issues, but I now know the only person responsible for my happiness is me. You have every right to protect your daughter and I apologize for not showing respect at all times to you and FIL, regardless of my personal circumstance.
Your prayers and shared wisdom were instrumental in bringing me back to my faith and giving me a set of principles to live my life by. Where I am today is bitter-sweet, I have lost the relationships people I care for because of my past behaviors, but I have been able to re-kindle my relationship with Christ. For that, I thank you.
I know forgiveness is an ongoing process and I hope one day you can extend your grace towards me.
Sincerely and lovingly,
Me
***My thoughts on keeping them shorter are because I too wrote a letter once....detailing all the bad things I did and apologized for each. I was told that the majority of the things I apologized for had been forgotten. So my digging up the specifics was probably not needed as it did cause one to remember certain things and stir up old feelings that may have been overwhelming for the reader.
KDog,
First...before you do anything...a question. What is your relationship with FIL and MIL? Do you still talk? Do you still interact? What does that look like to you?
The relationship before was good with FIL, it's been bad with MIL since we arrived here. MIL is a controller and rescuer and W has no problem being the victim. I'm getting that from the Triangle thing from my last thread that I read the article on about perpetrator, rescuer and victim.
In-laws and I do not talk anymore, but I do feel it necessary to apologize to them for things directly related to my drinking that they witnessed. FIL called me a week after BD because W had me write him a check for $400 the day she was leaving me. I also mailed him a card, thanking him for letting us stay and live with them when we arrived here. FIL called me to say he received the card, and that they still cared for me, but that was last contact. Also, FIL who is well off financially, cashed my $400 check knowing how is daughter played me and had me write it. Sort of showed me his character. Had it been me in that situation, I would not have cashed the check.
As far as the other things in the letter, I do think I need to apologize for them, but unsure if they should be in the same letter.
W thinks the sun rises and sets on her parents, especially MIL. Any future R with W would require making amends to family, specifically her Mother.
KdogGS (just realized there are 2 gs in your sig)
I think your letters are good. I hesitate to say more because even tho I have my own 12-step experience, I'm not grounded enough in that to offer advice. This is a very personal thing and is about your recovery. It differs from DB but your recovery is the most important thing here.
Go with the advice of your sponsor.
Best of luck.
KDog,
Thanks for the background information.
If I were you, I'd set aside these letters for a later time. Right now is a bad time to be sending these letters because things are very fragile with the W and getting involved with the ILs may very well make them spew at you since you didn't honor their wish for "last contact". That will not bring you closer to your goal. In fact, it will be a very serious setback for you.
What's important right now is to show consistent actions. When the situation with W and ILs improve much better down the road, then maybe consider sending them the letters.
For now, I'd suggest that you lay low for the time being.
My .02 cents.
Wonka,
Thanks for the advice, I was thinking along similar lines, that perhaps these would be better sent post divorce rather than now. The reasoning being if I send them now, it might be seen as manipulative or trying to influence the situation. If they are sent post divorce, they might be better received with less questioning as to my motivation. I think writing them was a good step, but I'll hold off on sending them as you noted.
Thanks labug, writing them was a good step for me. I am going to hold off on sending them until the divorce as finalized because I think Wonka makes some really valid points. They might not be received right now as solely for my recovery and it also may bring more pain to them now, so then it would not be advisable to send. I'll wait on sending anything since W did say that the happy birthday was from her and "her family" whatever that means and whoever that includes and whether that's true or not of course is unknown. I would have never thought W a liar, but through this process she has lied about simple things, like not returning my call because of cell phone service. Really? You weren't able to return it ever because of temporary bad service? Lies.
I think that's a good idea.
Nothing too new on my side. W is stopping by the house while I'm at work today (as far as I know) to pick up the hard drive and accumulated mail in the garage. I'm curious if she'll stop to see the dog or check out the inside of the house, other times she definitely has not. I made sure to clean up the house just in case she does venture inside.
She was so intent on 12/23/2013 on having this done before the New Year. She has not followed up with me (knock on wood) if I received the paperwork, and to my knowledge her lawyer never checked with my lawyer to make sure we got it, which I thought would be pretty standard. Send a fax, call after a bit to make sure they received it and maybe set a timeframe to review it.
Also, I guess I find it odd that she wanted it done so quickly, and now she hasn't mentioned anything and she wanted to refinance the house by the end of February in her name which would take at least 30 days. I thought she would be bothering me about it a lot more, at least that's what I expected and prepared myself for. Luckily, it has not come to fruition yet.
I know we could be mind reading and way off, but any thoughts on what's going on here? Chalk it up to WAW weirdness?
I'm interested to see when I return home this evening if W lets the dog in when she stops by the house. It's nasty, chilly and raining outside, it would definitely be the kind thing to do for the dog's sake.
Well, in typical WAW fashion, W never even stopped by the house last night to pick up the items like she said she would. The wait is on.
Much ado about nothing.
Here's where you really work on detaching.
We tend to attach meaning to so many things that simply have no meaning.
Give yourself a break, let that go.
Kdog, it's been awhile since I stopped by.
First, glad you took the advice not to send the letters. I think it's good for you to write them but don't send them. Keep them for your own personal growth.
Letters rarely have any effect on inlaws.
This is a long process, She said she wanted this wrapped up by the new year. The WAW says a lot of things. The reality is that it will take time.
My ex took 2.5 years to finally file. Yes 2.5 years.
I don't believe the WAW spends too much time thinking about how fast they want a D.
Hang tight, detach and prepare for either outcome. Trust me, regardless of the out come, you will be just fine.
gr8
KDog,
Not stopping by the house had nothing to do with being 'typical WAS'..it had more to do with the weather. When the weather is so blah, I just don't like to go out and fight with the umbrella along with cold temps.
You're all correct, I shouldn't read anything in to her not stopping by. It could have been for any number of reasons.
In other news, my cousin moved across the country for a new job and when she got there, she had no job. So she is coming to stay with me for a week, and potentially live here in a few months.
Went on a bowling date with a random internet girl last night. It was one of those where she looked a lot better in her picture. I bowled a great game though and had some fun!
My cousin is visiting and that's going really well. I am still just focusing on GAL'ing and staying busy.
W still hasn't picked up the stuff in the garage, and no word from her since my birthday. No followup on divorce paperwork either.
Today I am taking my cousin to my meetup group hike. I also invited another girl I started talking to online yesterday. I strictly have in that profile that I'm looking for friends. There should be 20 people there, so a lot less pressure than the other night bowling where it was just the two of us blind date style. We're both bringing our dogs as well, I hope mine doesn't eat hers. She has a 4 pounder.
Anyway, I'm focusing on GAL'ing right now. Like others have mentioned that start going out with people, the dating world is rough! I forgot just how rough it is. I asked dental school girl for brutally honest feedback on how our coffee meeting went. She said I was fun to be around, but she did not feel an instant connection. She did tell me she really respected me for asking. I told her I'm not a good mind reader, therefore I have to ask things. She really seemed to lighten up after I asked, and said we could hang out again sometime and gave me her facebook info and told me to friend her. I mean we randomly met up and talked fluidly for an hour and a half, so we had to have some connection.
I'm just taking it one day at a time. Still no W contact.
I'm off today so I'm taking my cousin downtown, it's just gorgeous outside.
I haven't heard anything from W since my birthday. She hasn't done a pulse check on the "paperwork" she thinks she sent on 12/23 and wanted signed off on by the new year that I still haven't received. She also has not stopped by to get the mail and hard drive in the garage.
I just keep moving forward, haven't met anyone else yet that really compares to W. Most of them look better online than in person, and there hasn't been any sort of connection. My female cousin thinks it might be because I'm giving off vibes of still being emotionally unavailable that makes me seem uninterested in them and they pick up on it. I know that I can only really make friends right now, can't do anything in terms of a physical relationship. I'm slightly discouraged for if I do actually have to go through the dating process all over again that it will be quite difficult to find someone of W's caliber before we started having problems.
Day 13 of no contact. I'm in a much different place emotionally about this lack of contact than when I first started. I'm actually at peace now without contact, whereas before I needed it. I actually sort of dread contact now, and welcome the much needed respite.
Still nothing, big ol' hurry up and wait.
KDog,
That is called "detachment" dear.
If you were in my shoes, and your WAS thought that they had already sent over "final divorce decree" paperwork to your attorney, would you let the WAS know that you and your attorney never received said paperwork?
I'm really confused by what's going on and why there has not been follow-up from her attorney or from her on the paperwork. Why has she not picked up the mail and hard drive? The hard drive has documents on it she would need for the house refinance she said she intended to do and have completed by the end of February.
Any thoughts?
What's your hurry?
The ball is clearly in your court.
A question I use with myself: Has anyone asked for my help?
Breathe.
KDog,
No movement from W is good, right? Sit back and enjoy this non-movement while it lasts. It just means that D is delayed by this non-movement. Isn't this what you want?
What's your hurry?
The ball is clearly in your her court.
A question I use with myself: Has anyone asked for my help?
Breathe.
Pronoun fail!
KDog,
No movement from W is good, right? Sit back and enjoy this non-movement while it lasts. It just means that D is delayed by this non-movement. Isn't this what you want?
I'm not sure if no movement is good, it depends on the reason for the no movement. I think she's under the impression all the paperwork is with me. In which case, I would be seen as the delayer. It is still what I want, but nothing W has done or said lately has indicated reconciliation is even on the table at all. I'm trying to have no expectations and still continue to GAL and enjoy my own life.
What's your hurry?
The ball is clearly in your her court.
A question I use with myself: Has anyone asked for my help?
Breathe.
Pronoun fail!
Haha labug! Love the pronoun fail. That is a wise question, no one has asked for my help. I will continue operations as normal until she asks me what's up. Thanks!
I'm not sure if no movement is good, it depends on the reason for the no movement. I think she's under the impression all the paperwork is with me. In which case, I would be seen as the delayer. It is still what I want, but nothing W has done or said lately has indicated reconciliation is even on the table at all. I'm trying to have no expectations and still continue to GAL and enjoy my own life.
Well as I've posted to you before, I'm in a similar sitch. W has said several times that the paperwork would be forthcoming, and yet to date I still have nothing. What you want is what I want- just to know SOMETHING. Is she on the fence about it and having second thoughts? Or is she just too busy to deal with it? Or does she just not realize that the ball is still in her court? Here's the thing, if your W was really in a hurry then she would call her L and confirm that the paperwork has been sent. She would be calling her L to see if you had sent the paperwork back. Or maybe calling you. Regardless, silence from her end means that she is not pushing right now. I have chosen to just STFU and be patient. It's OK for me, because I am able to do it with ZERO expectations that it means anything. I guess that's what I advise you, if you can be patient and have no expectations then leave it be. She can hardly blame you for delaying when you never even received anything. But if it's keeping you up nights and eating at you, then go ahead and tell her you haven't received it and ask her what's up.
But if it's keeping you up nights and eating at you, then go ahead and tell her you haven't received it and ask her what's up.
Why stir the pot if you are feeling discomfort? Sit on the discomfort and work through it. I wouldn't poke the bear just because you are antsy pantsy.
I agree with Wonka. Use this as a practice in learning to sit with things outside your control that make you uncomfortable.
Instead of looking for a quick fix, let it subside on it's own.
Thanks for your reply AnotherStander, I appreciate your insight as always! I'm trying not to overthink things and mindread, it's just what you mentioned, I want to know SOMETHING.
I just have had no indication of a change of heart from her, and we have had no positive interactions so I can't imagine a miraculous 180 at this point in her mindset.
I guess I'll let the bear continue to hibernate for now and work through my thoughts and discomfort as you both noted Wonka and labug. Thanks!
Why stir the pot if you are feeling discomfort? Sit on the discomfort and work through it. I wouldn't poke the bear just because you are antsy pantsy.
Point well made
Thanks for stopping by all, I'm looking forward to my GAL activities this weekend.
I'm going for yogurt this evening with a new young lady I met online, she knows the whole situation and oddly enough is the most interested.
Tomorrow I work for 8 hours, then I'm going straight to church, and then I'm planning to either go to an ice hockey game, or bowling.
On Sunday, I'm going to a meetup hike in the morning with 30+ people, sadly the dog can't come to this one. I'm supposed to meet another young lady from online at that meetup hike as well. On Sunday night I may be getting basketball game tickets so potentially going to a pro game that night. Hopefully should be a good weekend!
Thanks for checking in on my thread K. Sounds like you're on a roll with meeting new people and GAL. I hope you enjoy your weekend!
Had another interesting encounter at church this evening. As a reminder, I expressed to W that I regularly attend the Saturday night service, so that her parents would feel comfortable going on their normal Sunday time. I really debated today after working 8 hours whether I should go or just watch online from home. I really felt some force telling me to go in person so I did.
I got there pretty early and went to the restroom before the service started. As I went to walk into the worship center, I ran into my mother in law in the hallway. I'm pretty sure she was surprised to see me, but I just smiled warmly at her and said hello and asked her how she was doing. She actually smiled back and said she was well and I just kept walking.
I decided to sit up front so there was no chance of trying to glance over and find them and see who else might be with mother in law at the service. I discreetly ducked out before the service officially ended to avoid any awkward situations afterward.
I guess as far as encounters go, I would classify it as a positive one.
Well, it was a great weekend and I survived a MIL encounter at church. I went on a 7 mile hike this morning with 30+ meetup hikers, and the organizer asked me if I wanted to start organizing some of the Sunday meetup hikes for him. I get along great with everyone so I am really considering it.
I'm anticipating hearing something from W in the next few days regarding what's going on with the divorce. Tomorrow will be a month since she supposedly sent over the final decree paperwork. That milestone seems to me like time for a followup, so prepping myself mentally/emotionally for getting that contact.
Good morning all!
I've got a question on changing lawyers. My father picked out this men's litigation firm here, it's a big firm, and we're getting charged for ridiculous things. Two most recent examples, charged $45 for a "strategy meeting" between L and her meeting. The case has been on hold since November, I've said that to my L many times. Then the other night my L called me for an update and left a voicemail on my answering machine. SHE CHARGED ME TO CALL OUT TO ME?!?! I mean really, I didn't reach out to her. I have a female friend that's an attorney and she said I should contact the Texas bar about it. Any other suggestions?
KDog,
It is your life here and your decision. Take back your own power and seek out a L that you're comfortable with. Time for action and not allowing others to make decisions for you. Whatcha gonna do?
I mean I filed a complaint with the firm yesterday via email since I was at work and couldn't make a call. I'll see if they follow up with me today or if I have to call in to talk to someone about it.
Wait a slow-pokin' minute...what was the complaint about to begin with in the first place? Details please. This way we can aid you better in your thought process and the next steps.
They have continuously done things that I have not requested and charged me thousands for it. For example, on the initial intake conversation, we discussed ways to respond to my W's petition for divorce. We discussed a general denial all the way up to claiming that W defrauded marital assets with refurbishing the house. While we discussed these options, I never said "hey why don't you draw up one of each response at $275 an hour and I'll pick one." But that's exactly what she did. Drew up three different responses even though I said I was hoping for reconciliation so the general denial was what I wanted to start with. That cost me about $1500 for her to draw those up without me even asking.
I think I finally got my point across because now when I sign in to my client portal online it has "no phone calls, no emails, no strategy meetings" listed on my account. I am seeking some reimbursement at this point. We'll see how it goes.
Today Upwords from Max Lucado I found particularly applicable to myself, I tend to hold grudges. Who haven't you been able to forgive?
"Blessed are the Merciful
Could someone actually be forgiven a debt of millions and be unable to forgive a debt of hundreds? Could a person be set free and then imprison another? You don’t have to be a theologian to answer those questions; just look in the mirror.
Who among us hasn’t begged God for mercy on Sunday and then demanded justice on Monday? Is there anyone who doesn’t, at one time or another, show contempt for the riches of God’s kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?
Look into the face of the One who forgave you. Who wept when you pleaded for mercy. Look into the face of the Father who gave you grace when no one else gave you a chance. “Blessed are the merciful,” Jesus said (Matthew 5:7). Why? “Because they will be shown mercy.”
You see, forgiving others allows us to see how God has forgiven us!"
I got everything squared away with my law firm client care department. They refunded all of the charges I disputed.
The email I expected to receive from W in the last couple of days never came, pushing us past the one month mark since she supposedly sent over "proposed settlement/final divorce decree" paperwork. We have not had any contact for 20 days. The waiting game continues. I'd pay to be inside of her head at this point and catch a glimpse at what in the heck is going on.
The auto insurance renewal is up, and we still have not separated our policies even though that was one of her checklist items and I called her to do it about 6 weeks ago. Also, I got the vehicle registration bills for both cars. They are due at the end of February. I don't want to pay for insurance and registration on her car, I don't even know if it's still on the road because last she told me "it was pronounced dead." I also do not want to reach out to her so I guess I'll try and wait her out up until the bills are due. They take about 2 minutes to pay online.
Major update: Lawyer finally received the proposed decree of divorce from W's attorney. I'm planning to sit on it for a few days at least. I guess that solves that mystery.
You've handled everything so well thus far. Just keep on keeping on K.
Thanks Mimi, I'm sorry for the developments in your situation as well. Seems like we're both very emotional today. I got the email from my lawyer while at work and had to go walk around for a half hour. I know I need some days to settle down.
Made an appointment with my lawyer for next Tuesday to discuss options. I thought it would be good to let everything settle down emotionally. I did shoot a business only email to the wife about dividing the auto insurance and about the car registration. We'll see what she says.
Hello fellow DB'ers, I'm looking for advice.
Wife sent over her proposed settlement. I don't want to respond with a counter proposal, but with a last resort letter. I KNOW THIS IS A LONGSHOT. I know chances are it will not have any impact. To feel that I did everything, I do want to send her a last letter through our attorneys to say something about starting a new relationship. I'm not looking for why this won't work, but if you were writing the letter, what sorts of things would you include and not include?
KDogs,
Put down that pen, step away, and no one gets hurt.
Nope, nope. Writing letters to the WAS is ineffective because:
1) You cannot change their perspective
2) It just comes across as pressure with begging, pleading, reasoning, smacking on their head
3) It will set you back big time (remember the Ladder and Chutes game??)
You are acting out from frustration that there's no movement on W's part to reconsider D. Pull out that hot pink duct tape from your toolbox and wrap it around your mouth several times until you cannot blow a raspberry out of your mouth.
I can tell you this: In all of my time on the boards, I've NEVER, NEVER seen the WAS walk back in the LBS' arms after a letter was sent to them. In fact, it had the opposite effect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You and your L do need to respond to W's proposed settlement. This is strictly a business transaction and you need to put on your business hat to negotiate what you want that is fair and equitable.
I understand how you're feeling K....wanting to give her one last shot to rethink at this crucial point. While I agree with what Wonka said, I know you're going to do what you feel is best.
I wrote a letter to my H the week of BD (several months ago), stating how I now had tools for a good marriage that I didn't have before and I know that deep down he knows we could make our M work etc...it unfortunately did not have the affect I wanted and I wrote it before I read other books w/ knowledge on a better way to go about it.
If you end up following through w/ your feelings on writing a letter, the only thing I can thing of is writing a letter similar to the one exampled in James Dobson's 'Love must be Tough'.
I would say, start off the letter saying you still feel differently about ending the R, but let that be the only brief mention of R, after that point (IMO) you have to show you understand her POV ( e.g. "I wish there was an alternative where we could start a new marriage, but I understand leaving is the only way for you to be happy....") and then wish her well in life (in order for it not to be the pressure and all the things Wonka listed...instead attempt to "Lift in cage door" for her to feel free, but at the same time she got that one last gem of hope of R from you for choose to revisit or stick to her guns).
I wouldn't write a long letter detailing the whys and hows... such as the 3 page letter I wrote my H, which after reading he kindly suggested I leave his sister home and make a 3 hr drive back home alone. That was a fun day *sarcasm* lol
I know things must be tough right now, I can only imagine how you are feeling during this stage in the process. I hope you're able to do some activities this weekend to take your mind away from this for at least a short time.
Thanks Mimi, that was helpful!
The letter would be included in the proposed settlement sent from me to her lawyer, it would be more along the lines of what Mimi outlined, not begging or pleading. A last resort letter to exhaust all opportunities prior to the divorce.
Do what you gotta do but have no expectation.
You only have this one life.
KdogGS,
I believe I know from my own journey what you want to do and why you want to do it.
I could be wrong, but you seem to be hoping for a eleventh hour reprieve. Perhaps sub consciously you expect a hail mary to dazzle her and stop the process.
In the 3rd month of my separation I wrote such a letter. An ownership mea culpa that sounded great to me. Other than to insinuate too little too late and actions speak louder than words, she was in no frame of mind to receive it as I had intended. So here I am 15 months later just trying to stay out of her way as she walks her path. In perfect hindsight my letter, while read, was not only too early but not the masterpiece I thought it was. It never got a direct reply and for all I can tell may have set me back.
Even earlier today after seeing MWD's FB post I thought about using her comments to frame an email to my wife. Second and third thoughts said no, it's like pursuit coming from me. From someone else maybe thought provoking, but not from me.
We haven't spoken for 10 months and except for an irregular out of the blue text or email which are cold and impersonal, there has been no contact. The next topic upcoming will be taxes. I do not initiate, only respond.
Who knows what is next. We are not legally divorced or separated and we don't live together. She is in CA and I am in HI. She knows where I am and how to contact me. In the meantime I GAL and respond when contacted kindly and with love and stay out of her way. She knows how I feel.
We have been together 30 years and married for 26. Known her for nearly 33.
We have a son slightly younger than you are. My thoughts to him would be take the high road, show grace. Be kind, yet handle like a business deal. This is the time to take care of you. Down the road you may be given the opportunity to get your closure and speak your heart, if you remain interested at the time. Then you can have your say and know you were heard.
Remain detached. Act as if. Be the man only a fool would leave. The divorce is only a piece of paper and there are many stories of re-engagement.
Most of the worse is over. You are doing fine and will get through this. All the best to you.
Thanks for your thoughts ancient warrior. I am undecided on how to proceed at this time.
KDog,
In my case, I wrote a letter or two to MS. Wonka and never sent them. The letters were good for me to write as it allowed me to process my emotions and thoughts. We encourage new DBers to write them and then set aside them or burn them {whatever works for them) as it allows people to get those antsy feelings out of the way.
Whatever you decide, you need to be prepared for whatever outcome that comes out of this.
I understand. I am not sure how I will end up proceeding. I meet with my attorney on Tuesday to formulate a response.
W responded to my email and said she is available on Tuesday to be on the phone to take care of the car insurance. After that, I plan to block all of her email addresses, I've changed my phone numbers, and hopefully she won't be able to contact me anymore while in litigation.
Knowing that W will be stopping by tomorrow to get the mail and hard drive, I just spent the last couple of hours cleaning everything and organizing. I also took the time to take down the last of W's decorations and things from the walls and counters and place them in the garage as well. I also put her old tv stand out there as well. I should have done all of this weeks ago.
She put a
wink face in her email to me when she said she had not been by the house, but I probably knew that. Why would she wink at me? Why not just say "I'm coming by to get my stuff." I am blocking her email as of right now. The car insurance is the last item we need to have contact to take care of and we have that scheduled for Tuesday. I left her the turbotax login with her things in the garage so she could input her side of the taxes. From now on, we will talk through our attorneys. I can't be on the rollercoaster anymore.
She's trying to be friendly in a difficult situation, maybe.
I wouldn't read too much into it.
Good luck.
I've decided against the last resort letter I was considering sending. As far as blocking her email, I found out the best I can to is filter anything from her to automatically go to trash, so that's what I did. She knows where I live if she truly needs to get in touch with me.
As far as a response to her proposed settlement, I am going to reject it on the following grounds-
1) She is not eligible for spousal support so please stop threatening that
2) We need to file 2013 taxes jointly, not separately because we both made more than $10k and we each contributed to IRAs.
3) Her proposed settlement provides no payout for my part of the home equity.
4) Her breakdown of the property division is nowhere near comprehensive enough and includes no property/item valuations.
5) Her proposed settlement leaves me to pay for joint liabilities that she plans to take over after I have paid some of them off on my own, and continue to pay the mortgage on my own. (She's cake eating here right? She lives with her parents and banks her checks while telling me to pay for the whole mortgage and stuff until she plans to take it over and push me out of the house in March! HA!)
I am planning to just send an informal response through my attorney to her's outlining these items and asking her to resubmit a new proposed settlement including these items.
Thoughts on if I am being reasonable?
and continue to pay the mortgage on my own. (She's cake eating here right? She lives with her parents and banks her checks while telling me to pay for the whole mortgage and stuff until she plans to take it over and push me out of the house in March! HA!)
It's not necessarily cake-eating, I mean it's true that it's not costing HER anything but it is costing her PARENTS. So she's getting a free ride at their expense. If you're still living in the house it doesn't seem unreasonable for you to pay the mortgage for the months you live there (assuming the mortgage is comparable to what you'd have to pay to rent a place). It's like Judge Judy says- "you ate the steak, you have to pay the restaurant". She's constantly getting cases where someone wants to live somewhere but then get their money back for various reasons, that's usually how she responds
Ok, I get it. But how can you claim something as only an asset, but not a liability too. For instance, the appliances in the house that I paid off for $5000. She wants to keep those free and clear and not reimburse me? Of course! Who doesn't want free things that their soon to be ex has already paid for with his own money.
She's not pushing me out of the house. I found out, I did all the work on it. She has no dog, she has a support network in town to help her move and I do not. She can go find a new place.
Breathe.
Anger is your enemy in business negotiations.
That's another reason I am going through the lawyers at this point. There's really no reason for me to contact her anymore. We have everything divided and have no reason to talk about anything except the divorce settlement anymore. If she wishes to reach out about something else she will have to submit it through my lawyer, use the postal service or come see me in person. This is what I need to detach.
I found myself hoping she had changed her mind when it took her a month to send everything over, so when I got it, it reopened the old healing wounds. I am so much better when I don't hear from her at all.
I am so much better when I don't hear from her at all.
You know I am totally w/ you on that one.
Problem is now that I've cut contact through phone, I dread opening the mail box lol
Your mention of taxes makes me wonder what my H was planning on doing for taxes. I have my W2s and planned to just file by myself.
I hope the rest of your week is peaceful K, in spite of everything going on.
Thanks Mimi, I really appreciate you checking in. I met with my lawyer today and wow did that take a load of pressure off of me. W is not eligible for any type of spousal support so she can threaten all she wants. She can't push me out of the house, and it would be a very hard case for her to make even if we went to trial. My lawyer says it's really apparent that W's attorney does not typically do divorce cases because the divorce decree W and her lawyer sent over is atrocious. My lawyer is on board with delaying things, she is getting married and going on her honeymoon, so she says we will try and wait to respond until March.
In the meantime, my L is formally requesting that W immediately return my ammunition, my $3000 painting and another painting that are my property still at her parent's house.
I hope things are going well with you too, I don't dread opening the mailbox. I'm sorry you feel that way now. I hope you have a great week too!
Hey K, hope you are well and ready to enjoy this weekend!
Hey Mimi,
I'm working today until 4:30, going to the 5 o'clock church service I normally go to. My allergies are killing me, my sinuses are all messed up.
I may be going bowling this evening, we'll see. I am scheduled to go on a 12-mile hike tomorrow but the weather looks questionable. A new woman I met who went through a divorce and I have been talking, I think she would really benefit from this site. She and her ex have a baby together, so I think I am viewing her more as a friend, which she also said she was looking for. I don't really have Superbowl watching plans formulated yet, we'll see what I can come up with on that.
The pastor that married us informed me he sent W a hand-written letter and had gotten her address from her grandfather. He asked her to reconsider and told me he hopes that he at least places some doubt in her mind about her decision.
What are you GAL activities this weekend?
This was the first weekend in a month that I've had both friday and saturday off, so I sat around and did nothing....nothing at all!
Sometimes those are the best kind of days. Glad to hear you're safe after your vehicular ice skating spectacular. I hope you caught up on rest!
Hey K!
I tried to find the series on your churches website, I think it's either not up yet or I wasn't clicking the correct links
Hope all is well w/ you!
Hey Mimi, if you click on "Media" on the main homepage, it takes you right to it. I hope all is well with you too!
Update- Negotiations have failed.
Things are going downhill very quickly. My lawyer requested through W's lawyer that W return my items from her parents house and W refuses to do so. She's holding my stuff for ransom until I sign the divorce decree (which is unreasonable and not written correctly). So I have a feeling we'll end up going to court.
Oh well, I have a phenomenal weekend planned!
How bout you Mimi?
Sorry she's being this way, I pray her heart softens and that things go better than expected.
I'm working this weekend. Surprise! lol
Life is pretty plain but I feel good; I am ready for spring to come around so I can go out and about more in nature etc...!
What are the items she's holding?
What are the items she's holding?
My government issued ammunition (1000+ rounds?) from my past life as a law enforcement officer. A $3000 painting I bought before we were even engaged, and a couple other paintings that I had purchased before we met.
Her heart is putting Pharaoh to shame.
I want on a 7.5 mile hike this morning with my Meetup group, met a new girl, and we hit it off. I've been out on about 8 dates so far, I tell each of them the whole story up front and surprisingly the honesty is refreshing to them.
Tonight I am rearranging the living room! Fun times.
Does ammo convert to personal property when you're no longer employed as a LE officer?
Is all that stuff so important (sentimentally or monetarily) that it's worth hanging on to? What's your motive?
Don't miss the forest for the trees.
You're dating, you want to get into another R, you have no children with her. She walks away, you never have to see her again.
Does ammo convert to personal property when you're no longer employed as a LE officer?
Is all that stuff so important (sentimentally or monetarily) that it's worth hanging on to? What's your motive?
Yes, I asked when I left LE if I needed to return the ammo and they said it was mine. It's also my responsibility as the cartridges have my prints on them so I want them back.
Yes, she shouldnt get to keep things that aren't hers.
OK. Thanks for clarifying that.
OK. Thanks for clarifying that.
I'm sorry labug. I didn't mean to be short. She got to unilaterally decide what to take from the house when she walked out and already has all of her sole and separate property. I'm now at her mercy to return my property to me, it's unfair just like the entire situation has been.
I have been very nice up until now considering the alternative of how I could act. I am doing my best to continue to do so by going through my attorney for dividing up property. In my opinion, W is unreasonable and has unrealistic view on how to divide property as well as what is truly "community." She continues to want to play the victim, and so far by validating her I have allowed it to continue.
From here on out, it's through attorneys. I don't want to see or speak to her again.
I do value your feedback and I apologize for being curt before.
I didn't read it as you being short but rather it's not up for discussion.
*waves* Hey K, hope all is well!
Hey Mimi, you are a night owl indeed judging by the timestamp, how's the overnight job treating you these days? Find anything else to transition to?
I'm doing well, thanks for checking in. No news on the divorce front because my L got married and is on her honeymoon until sometime in March.
I closed out the joint account yesterday and sent her her half of the funds. She never switched her disability and life insurance from the joint account to her individual after repeated requests to do so. So I just zeroed it out, and sent her the proceeds. Now she has no choice. I didn't do this out of spite, but she continues to use marital assets for things that she agreed to pay on her own 4 months ago. No more Mr. Nice Guy!
Anyway, I've been dating pretty regularly here, seeing three different women who all know the situation. Keeping it PG with all of them of course as I'm still technically married. I think your concerns about not finding someone as a 30 year old soon to be 31 divorced woman are understandable. I doubt you'll have any issues though, you should ask DJ man out! What have you got to lose?
The three women I'm seeing are very different, one is divorced, no kids, married for a short time to an alcoholic. One is divorced with an 8 month old (who is adorable and loves me) but she is very conflicted as her divorce is really recent, so we've decided to maintain a friendship for now. The other woman is one I met from a meetup and she's very private. The other two are very open. Anyway, they enjoy going out and good conversations at this point, and the adult interaction for me is good versus just talking to my dog!
I wish you the best as you move forward. K-love's word yesterday was Proverbs 4:25- "Look straight ahead, and fix your eyes on what lies before you." and today's I also found pertinent Proverbs 4:26-27 "Mark out a straight path for your feet; stay on the safe path. Don't get sidetracked; keep your feet from following evil."
We can't choose the paths are WAS put us on, but we can just focus on maintaining the changes we have made to ourselves through the process and embrace those as positive outcomes from an otherwise horrific situation.
Good morning DB brethren! Received the following email from W last night, looking for thoughts on 1) do I need to respond? 2) what do I need to say if I do?
"Hi H,
Thank you for taking the time to write up the information needed to complete the taxes. I have all of my W2s now and am gathering the other documents. I will send you an email after I input my information so you can give it a once over before submitting. Right now, I am more focused on the final decree and working that out, but I will get to the taxes after that.
Also, I would like to stop by the house sometime in the next 2 weeks while you are at work. I know you are taking great care of it... I would just like to see it again and make sure I didn't forget anything we haven't already talked about. Are your days off still the same (Saturday/Monday) and work till 7 or 8pm?
I hope Kahlua is doing well! I miss her like crazy and think about her everyday. Thank you for giving me the option a few months ago to share time with her. I had to make the extremely difficult decision to have her all the time or not at all. I think it would be too confusing for her and too painful for me. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that it was not a decision I took lightly and I think about her all the time.
Hope you are well."
My initial reaction response would be the fewest amount of words I could muster-
"Days off Sunday/Tuesday. Work til 8.
Dog's good."
Hey K, thanks for your kind words. Yes I am up late b/c of my job....I will start looking for something else this week...hope to find something become the month is out.
As for the email, yes, I would keep it short...say hello and let her know your days off...she did t ask about the dog, rather made a statement that she hopes the dog is well...so you dont have to address it, unless you want. Im sure she will see all is well whe. She stops by.
3 different dates...all sound interesting...that must be nice to put your self out there and get a postive response. I will attempt to one day....i am use to being approached...But I have learned my lesson..if I want something I have to go after...b/c the good guys always are to nervous to speak...while the "confident" (not usually the good confidence, but the slight arrogance masking past hurt) ones are usually the ones I need to run from. Lol
As for the email, yes, I would keep it short...say hello and let her know your days off...she did t ask about the dog, rather made a statement that she hopes the dog is well...so you dont have to address it, unless you want. Im sure she will see all is well whe. She stops by.
I ended up sending "Days off Sunday/Tuesday, work until 8."
I re-read her email before I saw your response and noticed the same thing, she only talked about the dog, didnt ask how she was. So I didn't address it.
Glad to hear things are looking up for you! New place for you fantastic!
You will get out there and date and find someone stellar. Enjoy that!
KDog,
When your W stops by, be sure to wear some new clothes and do something different with your appearance. Although no cologne!
Wonka, she only stops by while I'm at work. She won't see me. But I make sure to always look good when out and have gotten a new wardrobe since I lost weight! Thanks for trying to help.
Call me a bit vindictive, but knowing that W is going to stop by the house while I'm at work one of these days, it actually inspired me to move all of her items to the garage. So I've put almost everything of hers from the house out there. I also took the time to print out about 40 pictures taken since bombdrop of me having fun around the city with friends and with my dog. I needed to personalize the house to me anyway, and finally took the time to do it.
I had the day off, met a friend for lunch, and have a breakfast date tomorrow morning. Things are going well, I'm fine as long as I don't see or hear from the STBXW. My lawyer should return from her honeymoon soon and that's when the "fun" begins. Not looking forward to property negotiations, since we both think we're keeping the house at this point. Isn't possession 9/10ths of the law? At least my keeping the house, I provide for paying out her portion of the equity, her proposal afforded me no such thing. Other than the house, I have enough furniture that was mine prior to marriage I won't lose out too much.
I dont see what you did as vindictive...
You are living your new life. Out with the old...right?
I agree with Mimi. Vindictive would've been putting her stuff in the garage and locking her out of the rest of the house just for the sport of it.
I dont see what you did as vindictive...
You are living your new life. Out with the old...right?
I agree with Mimi. Vindictive would've been putting her stuff in the garage and locking her out of the rest of the house just for the sport of it.
Thanks for stopping by, this is post 100 so I'll start a new thread. Although I don't have much going on these days on the divorce front. I am just living the way I should have been from bombdrop, DB'ing is really more about rediscovering yourself than winning back your spouse. Winning back your spouse is sometimes just a byproduct of DB'ing.
DB'ing is really more about rediscovering yourself than winning back your spouse. Winning back your spouse is sometimes just a byproduct of DB'ing.
By George I think Youve got it!