Time for a new thread. Here is my old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...417#Post2410417Will update my sitch in my next post.
I am never totally sure how much of a back story to give when I start a new thread. I have been here for a while.
Over the past 10 months since bd w has peeked thru the door several times (metaphorically) and just when it feels like she is in reach she disappears again.
Most recently w wished me happy birthday in mid November and asked me to have drinks with her only to apparently forget the night we were supposed to go.
She said she wanted to give me a rain check, but she is always busy with work and seemingly not around on the weekends.
She didn't respond to my happy thanksgiving text.
I had a bit of a backslide the week after thanksgiving.
I woke up in the middle of the night frustrated and text her: "time for something different"
That text of course made no sense. She responded the next morning "???"
I responded "for example different registration stickers on your car"
I have a bunch of her mail including her car registration. I know that was a bizarre response from me. I guess I am kind of losing it.
She responded by basically telling me I am a weirdo, but said she wanted to stop by to pick up her mail. This was Two Fridays ago. She said she was coming by to get her stuff but didn't follow thru.
This past Wednesday she tried to make contact to pick up stuff several times but I was busy all day and said she could come by on Thursday. She said she would catch me next week. So she is apparently gone for the weekend again.
That brings us up to date.
I haven't read about your whole sitch but based on what you wrote, she sounds like the master of flake.
I usually don't like to point out my w's faults; I can't change her; I can only change me. She doesn't want the pressure of having to be reliable except to her work. Early on in our relationship she struggled quite a bit with the idea of having to call if she would be late at work. She got better with that but never perfect. So her flakiness is part of who she is. Maybe something she could work on with the help of counseling if we were ever to start a new relationship. That is getting way ahead of where I am at. And again I want to focus on me and my actions here.
So because you know she is flaky, do you take it personally when she flakes on you?
This is something that I'm trying to put a positive spin on. I know we all are trying to focus on ourselves and detaching, but sometimes when we know certain behaviors about our spouses, it helps with detaching.
I don't know if I'm sounding vague or even making sense, but when I apply it to my sitch it makes a lot of sense.
I guess sort of like a close friend who is known for being a flake. You don't take it personally(at least I don't). So if you don't get upset or take it personally its a positive.
If I'm guessing correctly, it seems like you don't put much stock into her bailing on you all the time.
Damn I've been wondering about you lately. How ya doing buddy.
I'm pretty much in the EXACT spot you are. Our BD's even started within a week of each others. And we're the same age. Too much. lol. Maybe you need a trip up here to Reno, but not with all this damn snow. We haven't been above freezing in about 10 days now, its a real morale killer sometimes.
What plans have you got for xmas?
I know the holidays seem to add just a bit of added tension in our lives. At least we do it to ourselves. ok, maybe just me.
I know I've about given up all hope, and moved on to just grieving I guess. I'm not quite ready to date, maybe after the new year, but figure that's my next step. Wheres your frame of mind?
Anyways friend, I hope all is well with you. You seemed to be struggling just a tad your last few posts. That's ok, it still doesn't mean anything one way or the other, we put too much stock into all of it sometimes. I think you thought your wife was more or less involved in something long distance, mine too.
Just out of curiosity, have you checked out the dating scene at all............scary!!! I discovered it def. not something to rush. I'm not ready yet, period.
I have to tell you, I haven't dated, but had an old friend come into town, that really was pushing me for more, I told her I just wasn't there yet. But I was excited to see her. Her divorce was two years ago, it was amazing, we talked for 3 weeks before she came down. But the person that showed up was completely different. Talked about how she burned all her ex's clothes up, stalked him for a while. Bitter bitter bitter. Her life was in absolute turmoil and she was still going backwards.
I know im doing pretty well during the days, evenings. Its when I go to bed, my mind takes over I guess, I cant remember the last time I've NOT dreamed of my wife. I have no idea how to stop it either. Do you have that issue?
Hope to hear from you soon, I've high jacked your thread enough. lol
What you're saying may be partially true in my situation. I have not felt anger toward my w since early on. So I am able to detach from getting upset with her directly, but I get frustrated with my situation all the time. I am definitely not an expert at detaching.
I have not found a way to entirely detach and still hold out hope.
I hear ya, I just don't have any anger left in me, for anyone/anything.
That pure detachment is the mother of all, even the patience thing I've got down now. Putting them together?
I guess it all falls back to that "time heals all wounds" thing.
Time is our answer, sure wish it would speed the heck up, lol.
I realized no matter WHAT I did, she took it as pressure. So I stopped everything. I'm not sure its helped the situation, but its certainly helped me.
Hey fly, thanks for stopping by!! (My previous response was directed at 2ndtimehurt's questions) I will stop by and check on your sitch.
I will be spending the holidays in North Tahoe (the family vacation home) so I am actually close to you. Somehow I thought you were much further east. I will be putting my kids on a plane out of Reno on XMas day to be with their mom.
I started dating at the end of March. Way way too early. I wanted to cut out the grieving time. I thought about how things went for my previous D, and thought I could avoid the grieving period. I realize now that is really not possible. It just takes time.
I stopped dating around when w agreed to go on the Vegas trip that never happened in July.
I will respond to your dreaming question in my next post...
I do still have trouble sleeping from time to time. It was a dream about my w that prompted me to send the "time for something different" text at 3 am.
Made spence to me at 3 am... Bad idea.. Anyway
To clarify my sitch a bit more... The last time I actually saw my w was when we had dinner together October 15. In the following week I signed her up for her license renewal course. Things seemed good that week. We had fairly regular communication up until Halloween when w started ignoring my messages. I was feeling pretty low when w responded to one of my messages from a few days before and then she sent me the birthday text and asked me to have drinks with her (Mid November). I had a day of hopefulness followed by more disappointment.
Whatever is going on with her, she doesn't seem to have time for me right now. When she contacted me last week it was more business like. She just wanted to grab stuff and go. I wasn't available. I may see her this week if she gets her stuff; I may just leave it where she can pick it up.
Is the stuff she's grabbing the last of what she has remaining?
Do you feel like she's attempting to make her final break soon?
Are you expecting papers soon, or is that you in your frame of mind thinking "this is it" soon?
What are you thinking my friend?
I cant remember you saying that either of you have even brought up the D word yet? Have you asked, do you need to ask, even for yourself? What answers to you need to have right now?
At this point, your floating, are you ok with where your at? do you need more answers right now? Sometimes we do, but understand its never the answer we're really hoping for, but its also something we need. I think by some of your comments you've lost that hope.
Do you need to have that final answer, one way or the other, to be able to really grieve and move on? Can you, are you willing to give it more time, for the sake of saying you gave it everything you could? Is that something that you need to do for yourself?
Do you feel like a failure? Are you afraid because this is happening a second time, that possibly your the problem in some strange way? Are you afraid to put your cards on the table again?
I really don't think the text was that bad of an idea to be honest, it was something YOU needed to do for yourself at the time. Its how you were feeling, own up to it. Maybe at 3am, the timing of it could have been better, but hey the idea wasn't bad, just the execution a tad.
I'm a bit curios about one thing thou, 25MLC, gave you some advice to maybe chase a little bit. You were very limited in that attempt, do you feel like it wouldn't get you anywhere, did you feel it would be pointless, did you feel it would make things worse? Is it that you've already made up your mind to the outcome, and are just trying to delay the process in some way?
Sorry buddy, I just threw a lot at you. The questions above are more for you to answer for yourself. Maybe getting your emotions out, here, can help. But if you want to hold on to those answers, I totally understand. You don't seem to journal here as much as you used to, and that's ok, I hope your doing it somewhere thou. Maybe holding onto it all, its why we've both failed at the full detachment, heck I dunno. I know I rarely, if at all post on my own thread anymore myself.
W is picking up mail which continues to come here. Her last thing is a bicycle and I wouldn't place too much significance in that.
Early on when w left it was like a D to her. She was totally done when she left.
We talked about how the divorce would go; We talked about how we would split stuff etc. but we never did any legal work. W doesn't need that for her to move on. If filing is left to her it could be years. The fact that she hasn't filed doesn't give me hope, but if she were to file it would be a HUGE statement. Like she met someone new and is sure she wants to be with that person And that person needs her to be divorced.
It took a very long time for her first divorce to get started; I think it was over three years and it was her husband who filed. I think most likely I will have to file to protect my assets.
I have no plans right now; I will rethink my position on that after the holidays.
I think I have gotten pretty good at not doing what doesn't work. And I have found a few things that worked a little.
I think 25mlc's point was that doing nothing gets me nowhere. I possibly needed to be bolder and less scared to act. I did do that over the summer when I invited w to Vegas with me. In the end that didn't work out. Still I could try again, but I think I need a better window of opportunity. And I may not get one. I tried a bit when she asked me for drinks for my bday. When she canceled the meeting (I had to message her to remind her before she canceled), I suggested that we try a weekend and she immediately shut down the next two possible weekends. She wasn't suggesting alternatives at that time so I felt like she may have been rethinking the drinks. It didn't feel like the right timing to suggest going to the ballet as 25mlc suggested.
When w and I were seeing each other every few weeks, I could have pursued a bit more. I wish I would have been more available when w contacted me asking for sex. I think if we would have had a good experience that may have tipped the balance towards me bit. Quite honestly, knowing my w, I think my most likely path back to her is if she opens the door to sex again and I can act like it is just meaningless no pressure sex. If I allow her to pursue and sex is involved she will likely get attached to me again.
I am considering sending some of the same kinds of texts that I was sending in May and June that seemed to work a little. I would think that those kind of get old after a while. It is interesting to note that she does respond better to things that are different ... Like that alien abduction text that I sent.
Over the past 10 months I have had the best success sort of creating openings for my w to pursue me. If I am available exactly when she is seeking me, we have had good times. When something gets canceled and I pursue she has backed off, but when I am not available at times she has pursued harder; other times she would disappear for weeks after something doesn't work out.
I am emotionally tired and I am not sure what else I can do at this point.
I got a question for ya.
Would you trade spots with me if you could? I see my ex almost everyday, we do family stuff together, we've had one on one hangouts, I help her with groceries, our texts are fun sometimes, massages etc.
The reason I'm asking is because it seems like I'm supposed to go dark a bit. And I get that. I've gone that route before(first time she left). I'm just wondering if there is a sweet spot or happy medium or does it change depending on the stage of reconciliation you're at.
I guess I'm asking because it seems like people would kill to have some of the interactions I get. Therefore I feel like I want to get as much as possible or at least not take it for granted.
I don't think I meant to say stage of reconciliation. We're obviously not reconciling right now. Maybe stage towards reconciliation fits better.
There is movement in my situation and it doesn't feel positive.
My interactions with w have gotten a little colder. She is now contacting me more about bills and mail than asking me out for drinks.
She just text me about separating some of our bills.
It is weird... Something is different ... I will take the 2x4 for mind reading, but there is something going on
I remember those interactions I used to get. I'm not a fan of when they sound all business like. So impersonal.
I remember you saying you haven't figured out how to detach without losing hope. I'm no expert on detaching when my ex is single,BUT the second I find out she's dating, a switch flips in my head and pride takes over. During my db'ing, I throw pride out the window. Now about the hope thing... Here's what I say to myself all the time. "No one knows the future". There are a million different ways your life could go. Many of the paths are you being happy. Happy alone, happy with another woman, happy with your wife. I find comfort in not knowing what the future holds. If there is a glimmer of hope in there, take it.
Just "some" of the bills, not "all" of the bills?
Hows that for a little hope?
She is separating out phone account. That is the only bill that we still split. She pays a (canceled) credit card bill that is in my name, I am on the title and loan to her car, and she is on title to my house. And we're still legally married. Those are the only things that tie us together.
It is not so much that she is separating the phone account, it is an accumulation of things that leads me to believe that something more is going on.
There have been ups and downs in my sitch, but things seem to be more steadily moving in a negative direction since mid October.
You sound just like me 2tac,
Hope is gone, just trying to come to terms with it all in some final way. Ready to move on, but wishing things had gone a different route.
Its ok friend, your gonna make it. You know that.
We're just gonna get thru the holidays, throw our cards back on the table again, and see what life deals us, right? We just need to give it all some time.
W just stopped by to pick up her mail. First time I have seen her in two months. I wasn't really prepared for her. When she text me two days ago, she said she was coming by 3 hours earlier than she came, so I figured it wasn't going to happen and I had forgotten about it. I was sitting in the kitchen entering grades with Christmas music blasting. I realized after she left that I was sitting in the late afternoon twilight with only Christmas tree lights on in the adjacent room. Our interaction lasted about two minutes. I had to go outside and get her mail from where I left it for her to pick up if I wasn't home. She commented on a slightly damaged window frame on the front of the house.
She returned some Christmas decorations that she took when she moved out and belong to me.
That's it. She thanked me and said bye.
Last time i saw her a gave her a hug goodbye. Didn't seem like the right thing to do this time. I noticed that her hair looked nice but didn't say anything. I was a bit toungetied. Probably would have been nice for me to say...
It is just so weird to see her for just such a short time after so long.
I may text her and thank her for dropping the decorations off.
@Fly.. I recall that your situation was similar to mine (especially in the behavior of our w's) and that we did get here at about the same time. But, if I recall correctly, there are a couple of notable differences. The biggest being (from my point of view) that you are on your first marriage and you and your w have kids together. Those ties mean a lot.
Even if things seem hopeless now, anything is possible. I wish the best for you. If you ever want to try some of the crazy things that sort of started to work for me (but in the end it seems they didn't), let me know.
I'd have to go back and look, and maybe I typed it all out and hit the "delete" button. Which I do a lot.
Anyways, I thought I said once, I don't think time together really makes a difference. When your spouse checks out, they check out. Heck, 22 years means nothing to my wife right now (she recently said that she's regretted marrying me on our anniv. date cause it prevented her from partying with her friends, but she picked the date), and in your case almost 4. I've read 100's of posts and longer time together certainly didn't correlate to better success.
I gave it 110%, I have no regrets that I tried everything.
I think one gets to the point that they eventually realize changes have to be made by both people for any chance. Some people want to change, some are almost incapable of change, and some don't see a reason to change. And some people just run.
In the end we all realize what we do for ourselves, the changes we make, the decisions we make during our journey are really the only say we have. It also teaches us a whole new level of interaction with others, on many levels. And the regrets or lack there of that we will carry with us the rest of our lives.
So what I guess im trying to say, is don't have regrets, if there is something you wish to do, DO IT. Don't want to sit around another year from now saying "I wish....", take on those demons of regrets, face them head on, but be strong enough to say you tried with no regrets. And your willing to live with the results.
The holidays have been harder than expected for me. I find myself slipping away in thought and sadness and do my best to pull myself out of it for my family's sake.
It has been 10 months and there have been ups and downs, but I now feel as though any real hope is lost and I have to figure out how to move on.
I am working on a longer post which started out as a response to fly above, but it has morphed into my thoughts on DBing in general... I will post that later
Here is my latest communication with w sent on 23rd. This was an email
"2nd,
My phone is officially broken & won't charge. (Phone carrier) will not allow me to open my own account & transfer my number without your cooperation. Is there anyway that you would be willing to sign a release of liabiliity for all phones conference with (phone carrier) verifying the change? I am desperate!!! I do not have a working phone, it won't charge & my work depends on 24/7 phone communication. PLEASE HELP ME!!!"
Does that communication sound like she is angry with me? I always respond to her and take care of things. I am not going to hold her hostage to our phone account. I responded within a few hours.
"Sorry to hear about your phone; I will do what I can to help you. I am in (vacation home), so I am limited. I can't scan or fax anything (and you know my reception is terrible here). Can I send an email or something? Let me know how I can help."
She has not responded. She seems desperate and then she disappears. I don't get it.
Hey 2taC,
Sorry your holidays have been kind of a bummer.
I'm not sure what to say friend, its the holidays. Your married (kinda) your wife is gone, its your first xmas without.
As far as the phone, why does having a broken phone require a new acct?, well it doesn't. You just get another phone? or am I missing something? Doesn't sound like she's being straight with you. If she wants to separate the phones why not just tell you that's what she wants?
I also think I've said this before, I don't think this has much to do with you. She's obviously got some issue that she never truly dealt with herself, unfort. your on the receiving end of it.
Maybe it is time to just let go of it all, as hard as that is. Maybe you not being there to "take care of things" will eventually make her realize you weren't the bad guy.
Just checking in on ya 2taC.
Hopefully your doing ok.
Happy New Years!
Thanks for checking in Fly... Happy New Year
So w went ahead and got a new phone and a new number because I wasn't available and it was an emergency for her. Her son's and son's girlfriend's lines were also on my account. She needs my help to transfer the girlfriend line because it has too much time left on contract ... Long story short .. I am supposed to meet w tomorrow at phone store to transfer line. I am not sure how many more times I will even need to see w. Maybe never again.. Everything else could be done separately.
So things continue downward ... But I am doing ok
Check back in if you need to, let me know how the interaction went.
Hopefully, you'll have a full PMA going on. And remember, GREAT eye contact!! Hope you can pull it off.
So here is where I am at.
Mid October w and I had a nice dinner together. We had been meeting up every couple of weeks for about two months. During that time w was sometimes flirty and at one point asked for sex via text, but that never materialized.
After the mid October meeting w thanked me for a nice relaxing evening. The next week I signed her up for a licensure course that she needed and she thanked me telling me that I am wonderful. The next week we exchanged some vaguely flirty texts, but at one point she didn't respond to a text I sent.
About a week later and just before Halloween, I sent a text to w asking for a picture of me from a previous Halloween. She said that she would send the picture but never did.
About a week laterf I sent a friendly text to w about a memory of us taking a class together. She did not respond.
Another week plus passed when I sent a text teasing her that she had been abducted by aliens and that is why we had been out of communication. A few days later on the Friday before my birthday in mid November she texted me back laughing at my text and asking me what I was doing. I sent a friendly response wishing her a happy weekend; I was busy.
My birthday was on Monday. She sent a very friendly happy birthday text and asked if she could take me for a drink. I responded, yes and we were to see each other Wednesday.
Late afternoon that Wednesday I had not heard from her so I sent a text and she responded that she go caught up in work with her boss and gave me a raincheck. She said was working all the time to keep her boss happy and that was her entire life.
A day or two later I sent a text suggesting that we get together on a weekend and she said that she would work right through the weekends. I suggested that she could pause to eat or get a drink and she said that she was out of town for the next two weekends. I let it go. Felt like maybe I pursued too hard.
A week and a half or two weeks later was thanksgiving. I sent a happy thanksgiving text and she did not respond.
After thanksging weekend I woke up in the middle of the night frustrated and texted her "time for something different".. Made sense to me at 3 am.
She responded "???"
I told her that she had some mail and car registration to pick up at the house. We finally connected a coupl of weeks later and she stopped by briefly to get her stuff and drop off a few Xmas decorations that she had accidentally taken. Saw her for maybe one minute.
On the 23rd our two year phone contract was exactly up and she was apparently desperate to get a new phone. I was out of town and could not help. She got a new phone and number.
This past Friday I had to meet with her to with her to transfer liability for a phone line that belonged to her sons girlfriend.
The store was not busy and I got there a few minutes before her. Once she arrived she she only had to show her id and we were done. We were together literally 15 seconds.
We went our separate ways; she looked hurried and discombobulated.
That's it. That brings my situation up to date.
I am trying to figure out what to do next. In February my situation will be a year old.
The options that I can think of:
1. Stay dark like like I have been since thanksgiving. See if she eventually reaches out to me, or work on moving on.
2. Try and send some friendly communication to her now that the pressure of the holidays has passed.
3. Send her a letter telling her how I feel and basically saying goodbye. Apparently a letter like that would never draw her back in. But at least it would give me some closure to move on.
What do YOU want from this? It might be just me overthinking.... There's. No magic button. You can't. Make stuff happen and you haven't. Done anything wrong. I am struggling with this too. If she wanted to be there to talk or be with you, I guess she would. Mine too. But she's. Not. So again, what will make YOU happy. Assume she's. Not a factor in that decision and go for it.
Perhaps consult a coach as well. Maybe they've. Seen this kind of thing.
I guess its all up to whether your ready to drop the rope or not.
Are you in a hurry to get the divorce over with? Do you think a friendly communication will help one way or the other.
Since its not really going one way or the other, would waiting a little bit more really hurt anything at this point?
Are you ready to say goodbye, or is it just frustration?
The choices are simple. The answers aren't difficult. Time and patience, the mother of all evils at times.
I personally, would wait until she came to me, if I was still holding on, even if it was just a little. Be in NO HURRY to get it over with one way or the other.
Like you said, the holidays are over, there will be a lot less stress. You prob have until July, your anniv. that will be another stress point for you. A LOT could happen between then and now. Why be in a hurry unless you just don't want to do it anymore.
Its alright to not know yet, hell that's part of the process, we get tired, we get frustrated, we even get impatient. Your not supposed to have all the answers, just the time and patience to let yourself off the hook for needing it now.
We'll talk soon buddy, hang on if you still feel like, i'll be here either way for you.
Its alright to not know yet, hell that's part of the process, we get tired, we get frustrated, we even get impatient. Your not supposed to have all the answers, just the time and patience to let yourself off the hook for needing it now.
2nd- I agree with Fly's comments, when I read your post I sensed a lot of frustration. And it appears that frustration is because your W is not reacting the way YOU want her to react. She was reaching out to you, so you started getting your hopes up. Then she pulled back again and you got upset/ frustrated. That's why we call it the roller coaster, there are highs and lows!
It's tough detaching from the roller coaster, but it's the best thing you can do for your own sanity. When you get to the point where you really don't care when your W reaches out or pulls back, when her roller coaster ride has no effect on your own attitude, THEN you'll be in a position to decide whether you want to continue standing or pursue D. I don't think you're there yet, so time, space and detachment is what you should concentrate on. You can do it
Thanks Fly and AS! I wrote a long response to this post about a week ago but somehow it got deleted before I could post. I just didn’t have it in me to write the whole thing again at that time.
AS, I have always admired the way you have handled your own situation from afar; you always seem to do the right thing.
Fly, you always give great advice to others, but I rarely see updates of your own situation. Hope you are doing well!!
For me, I just have trouble seeing the difference between detaching to the point of not caring what w does and being ready to move on. Doing nothing and just letting time pass may emotionally get me to where I need to be to just move on. Remaining open to a possible reconciliation while detaching seems like a reasonable goal, but I just haven’t been able to find that place.
At this time I still have lingering hope, but I feel like I need to do something or any opportunity I have will disappear. In the beginning we get here and time may be on our side. Getting past the initial shock of the bomb and finding a way to be happy on our own takes time. Working on ourselves takes time. For me, I have some goals that will take me years to reach. Our WASs also have time to get over the initial split and live on their own for a while.
Right now I don’t feel like time is on my side anymore.
When my w was reaching out to me, I may have had an opportunity and I just didn’t get it right. I am not beating myself up over that. With all the unknowns I did the best I could with the information I had available to me.
Oddly, the one regret that I have is that I didn’t chase at all in the beginning. I am pretty certain that a needy crying whining kind of chasing would never work, but I could have been more persistent about wanting the marriage to work. I know that from the stories here it seems like that never works. But do you ever think that some who do those things in the beginning save their marriages and so we never hear their stories.
I have gone back and read 25s last post to me and the message I get is that maybe I should be more active rather than passive. Just waiting for something to happen with my w is not going to get me anywhere. I just have to think of something to do.
2, its damn good to hear from u.
I understand how you feel completely. I don't update my sitch, well cause there's nothing to update. I ve voted for presidents more often than speaking to my wife. I got a great new place on the other side of town. Started a new job. And, well I just get up every morning and move along a little further every day.I wish it was different sure, but right now I'm only in control of what I have choices over. I've just realized she's going to do what she wants, and that's without me. I still have to take care of myself. my bills and my son.
A lot of us started "name-DB" FB accounts. A lot of us are friends with michelle weirner-davis. Its a great outlet, we keep it anonymous, and have great fun nightly. Come and join us.
I feel like we're still living the same situation, you and I. I'm not ready to date, but I've learned to drop the rope and just get on with life. Maybe someday it will be different, but for now it is what it is. Every once in a while the hope kicks in, but its short lived, so I do laundry, make dinner, or go shopping for something for the new place. I land on my feet pretty fast. My wife still hasn't pushed for any divorce either, but that's pretty common for her family. They just run, her dad is still married to a woman he hasn't seen in 15 years. I won't let that happen, but it might be soon, as I I'm ready either way.
Sound familiar? Come find me on FB, you'll recognize a lot of names. Great support and have a good time.
"Oddly, the one regret that I have is that I didn’t chase at all in the beginning. I am pretty certain that a needy crying whining kind of chasing would never work, but I could have been more persistent about wanting the marriage to work. I know that from the stories here it seems like that never works. But do you ever think that some who do those things in the beginning save their marriages and so we never hear their stories."
My ex told me that the thing that helped her reconsider reconciliation was the fact that I was being persistent with out pressure. Will that work a second time who knows. I know that by the time she asked to try again I was pretty much detached from her.
I know I have to detach to have another reconciliation but it is so damn hard. I wish we all had a fast forward button. Time needs to go by. Time to heal... Time to grow...
AS, I have always admired the way you have handled your own situation from afar; you always seem to do the right thing.
Thank you! I have had my own ups and downs for sure, but I think that's just part of the process for all of us
For me, I just have trouble seeing the difference between detaching to the point of not caring what w does and being ready to move on.
Yeah, there's not much of a difference. There's that saying around here that "they have to learn to miss you" and they never will as long as we're waiting for them. And that is the ultimate irony, we have to quit being interested in them before they may start being interested in us again.
Right now I don’t feel like time is on my side anymore.
Well, I know that feeling. Sometimes I start thinking about my age and can get anxious about moving on, but other times I ask myself if a few more months of waiting is going to matter one way or the other. So basically I just GAL and even go out on the occasional date and just leave the D in W's hands. Maybe there will come a time that I get tired of it and push the D through myself, but for now I'm OK with life as-is.
I have not been posting too often but here is a summary of my situation. I decided to be a bit proactive today and I will post that next
Timeline summary
BD 2/24/13
Living separately by mid-March (when w was staying in house I was not and visa versa)Tons of circumstantial evidence about existence of OM by end of March. I confront w about OM. W denies OM but says that she needs that connection (sex) and will be dating.W moves out of house 4/15/13
End of April I begin following a text messaging strategy that I found on the internet. I had very little expectations about this strategy but it seemed to work very well. W began contacting me and asking to meet at the gym or for drinks. I did get the ILYBNILWY speech at one point but things kept progressing until the end of June when we had agreed to go to Las Vegas together in late July. She canceled two days before we were to fly out.
End of August thru mid October w and I were meeting for drinks or dinner every few weeks. At one point w sent me a text asking me to have sex with her. Logistics were such that I could not make it happen quickly. The next week we went out to dinner and she came back to the house and when it felt like something might happen she said that ex sex was a bad idea becasue I would get too emotionally involved. That night she told me that when things get tough she runs away. She said she was running away then, but two weeks later we were having dinner again.
This is the last time we did something together
She text me after
Her: thank you for a stress free evening. Sweet dreams
I text her back in the morning
Me: was nice to get some stress relief after a long hard day... Good morning
While w and I were together that night, w expressed some anxiety about needing to fulfill a continuing education requirement for a license that we both possess. I told her that I would take care of getting her signed up. So I took care of this for her and she text me a few days later thanking me and telling me I am wonderful.
We had a bit of communication via text after that meeting, but then W iginored a couple of texts that I sent. Right around my birthday in mid november w appeared again via text and asked me to have drinks only to apparently forget the night we were supposed to go.
She said she wanted to give me a rain check and was super busy with work. I suggested we get together on a weekend and she said that she was working right thruough the weekeends. I pushed it a bit this time and suggested that she could take a break. She said that she was out of town the next two weekends.
A few weeks later I sent a happy thanksgiving text and she didnt respond.
I had a bit of a backslide the week after thanksgiving.
I woke up in the middle of the night frustrated and text her: "time for something different"
That text of course made no sense. She responded the next morning "???"
I responded "for example different registration stickers on your car"
I had a bunch of her mail including her car registration. I know that was a bizarre response from me.
She responded by basically telling me I am a weirdo, but said she wanted to stop by to pick up her mail.
When W stopped by to pick up her mail it was the first time I had seen her in two months. I wasn't really prepared for her. When she text me two days before, she said she was coming by 3 hours earlier than she came, so I figured it wasn't going to happen and I had forgotten about it. I was sitting in the kitchen entering grades with Christmas music blasting. I realized after she left that I was sitting in the late afternoon twilight with only Christmas tree lights on in the adjacent room. Our interaction lasted about two minutes. I had to go outside and get her mail from where I left it for her to pick up if I wasn't home. She commented on a slightly damaged window frame on the front of the house.She returned some Christmas decorations that she took when she moved out and belong to me.That's it. She thanked me and said bye.
Last time i saw her a gave her a hug goodbye. Didn't seem like the right thing to do this time. I noticed that her hair looked nice but didn't say anything. I was a bit toungetied. Probably would have been nice for me to say...
Most recently early this month (January 2014) w and I met for about 15 second when she transfered a phone line from my account to hers. We have not communicated in about three weeks now. We said maybe two words to each other that day.
This is where I am at on January 24 2014
We are seaparated with no papers filed for Divorce
I joined the facebook folks and I wrote the above summary so I decided to post it here as well.
I was thinking about my situation and everything I had been through and in a spontaneous moment I sent my W a simple text message.
Me: Walked past xxx tasting room. Thought of you. Hope you're well.
Her (about 15 minutes later): "Ah thank you. I was fortunate enough to get the flu bug. Only worked 1 day this week. Been in bed trying to get well
on another note.. I am thinking about trading car in for something more affordable. Will need you to approve trade in when the time comes."
I will respond soon that I hope she gets better soon. And I am happy to help with the car.
I am not sure if she was friendly becasue she needs my help with something .. but anyway silence is broken
That's fine 2t,
Still no negative here, don't let your mind take it that way.
I wouldn't use the word happy in the car response either. Maybe more of a "anything I can do to help" response might be better.
Who cares why she was friendly, the silence is broken. Work your plan, the answers will come one way or the other. Don't let limbo or impatience dictate needing answers, unless you just aren't feeling it anymore. Which I can is not it yet, or you wouldn't be worrying WHY she was friendly. Patience my friend, patience, you prob have another year of this before you'll see anything positive. Or sooner, negative, if you push things.
Thanks Fly! Too late to leave out "happy"; I already responded.
Me: Sorry you're not feeling well w
. Hope you get better soon! Happy to help with car. Gotta run; catch you later
Maybe I could have worded it a little better, but it was probably ok.
She did not respond, but I ended the conversation. When I did this before ending the conversation seemed to have a positive effect.
I can't read too much into anything, but being the analytical guy which I am I think her wanting a more economical car is a sign that she is cycling a bit out of MLC. Even if true, I don't necessarily see that as a positive for me. She may be seeking a fresh start or maybe has already found one....
Way too much mind reading there my friend. And I know you know that.
Its not a positive or negative towards you, its just that she wants a more economical car. You know what worked before, you wanted to give it all another try (texting thing), don't overdo it. Start slow, very slow, have some patience. You'll get your answers soon enough, but not on your time line. Maybe once every other week for now, as you need to slowly build up some communications first. Don't jump in with both feet. It would be too much too fast.
I know its all frustrating, but you can do this. If you think she's struggling financially and sick, buy some meds, and drop them off in her mail box. Have no expectations doing this. No get well soon cards either. SLOW
Yeah it's mind reading ... But I am not that emotionally involved in whatever w is doing right now... My thoughts are more along the lines of ..
"will I ever have another opportunity with w?.." .
.. "Will it be another year or more before I get that opportunity?.." ..
"Do I have to move on to he point of not caring at all before my w may want back in (like the swingers clip)?"...
"Is there anything I can do?"
So right now, as far as my w goes, I am trying different things and seeing what happens taking note and adjusting my behavior. I feel like I have tried no contact and it has not gotten me anywhere... If I need to just give it more time ... Well when I decide that I am done then time can do its thing...
In the mean time I am working on getting myself into a stable career ... I have been working a lot lately in two different jobs and increasing my savings so I can afford some time away to find something better. I want to be in a place where I could support my w if she came back...
She was the bigger money earner when she left, but she hates her job. She would like to go back to school but she can't afford to do that. I would like to be able to help her
So against the advice of fly above ... I sent w a text simply saying "hope u r feeling better. Take care of u"
The "take care of u" line is something that I always told her when she was worrying about everything but her. A few months after bd, when I started my crazy work schedule, w said that back to me. She said "As you always tell me "take care of u""
I figured that since she told me she was sick on Friday, I should send something thoughtful a bit sooner than two weeks. Anyway, no response yet. I will give her some time and space now.
No no, I said for you TO do it, just once every other week for a bit. I even recommended buying her some meds since she was sick and dropping them in mailbox, and leave. Send a text and let her know there out there, but have no expectations. Don't overdue it.
I certainly don't have a problem with you keeping the door open a CRACK. Like I said above you know what worked last time. Just wanted you to be patient with any responses.
@fly: I was just thinking that you thought I should wait two weeks before further contact and instead I waited 4 days.... Maybe I misread. Anyway, I don't know where she lives so I couldn't drop off meds.
It is funny how I feel in the hours after I attempt contact. I Definitely feel more attached to the situation in anticipation of what her response will be. It is more of a slight anxiety attached to wanting know rather than being attached to any particular outcome. Whatever the outcome of this small communication is, it doesn't mean that much.
Sitch update:
Wow what a week (9 days now). After a few months of virtual no-contact and getting tired of limbo, I come up with a plan of reconnecting with my w
My current master-plan: I believe that in my case, in addition to becoming the spouse only a fool would leave, I need to get my w to be irresistibly attracted to me again. I believe that I could do this by creating a sexual connection with my w. W has previously suggested to me that we could have a sexual relationship, but then she backed out suggesting that I would get too emotionally attached. Knowing her, I believe that she would get emotionally attached as well (although she says she wouldn’t I am not sure if she believes what she is saying). Anyway, I believe that she would initially be more attracted to me if she believed that I was just in it for the sex. The roadblocks that I need to overcome are my W’s fear of getting involved with me again, outside influences (w is almost certainly getting at least some of what she is seeking from an OM who she may or may not have an emotional attachment to), distance (it seems that w and I are hardly ever in the same city anymore and we are usually a few hours apart).
Events of the past 9 days:
I start with the idea seducing my w by sending funny, and sexually suggestive texts. W responds in a way that seems to be a bit flirty, but at one point it seems that she thinks I want to meet up with her to get her to sign something (perhaps move forward with divorce or some legal protections for me). At this point I respond by telling w that if I were to have her sign anything it would be a contract similar to one written by Christian Gray (basically telling her that I am looking for a sexual relationship and I am sure that she understood). Her response was “OIC…” (I am not sure if the “all caps” was meaningful here or not).
A few hours pass and communication takes a 90 degree turn heading in a completely different direction; her work has just asked her to take a step down and for my W this was huge. She has always been an incredibly hard worker, putting work in front of all other things. I know that she was devastated. I turn into the caring loving partner simply telling her that I am there for her. She says that she would like a shoulder to cry on. Then she says she would like a shoulder and a bottle of wine. But after some time passes, it seems that the logistics can’t work or that w thought better of this.
Wednesday I see w for maybe 10 minutes when she comes by to pick up some mail. I am a supportive ear and she seems to be pulling it together and looking for a new job. She was not flirty and seemed a bit closed off, but she was friendly
During our M, I had not done a good job taking care of my w and since then she has not asked me to do anything for her. She left saying that she needed someone to take care of her. When I saw w on Wednesday, I told w that I would do anything I could to help her. Thursday she seeks out my help in taking some assessments that needed to completed from home before an interview.
I spent two hours working (from a distance) with W on Friday (Valentine’s Day) helping her prepare for her interview. No happy Valentine’s Day exchanges, but apparently she is taking me out to dinner sometime. I have been there and done that. Sometimes get-togethers happen, sometimes not, but when they have happened they have not led anywhere. I finish working with her about a half hour before her meeting is to happen and she says that she will let me know how it goes.
I had not heard anything, so late Saturday I message her asking her how it went and (attempting to use humor) I suggest that they should have made her the new company CEO.
I don’t hear back until today with her telling me that she has not heard anything. In the same message she asked me if she got anymore of her important mail.
My interpretation: there may still be an opening there but there is a lot of chaos to navigate.
The potential positive: After my sexually suggestive messages w actually suggested getting together and sharing a bottle of wine. That I helped w prepare for her interview may have some long-term positive effects. W may be taking me out to dinner.
The potential negative: We did not get-together and share a bottle of wine. My helping w may actually scare her away in the short-run (she had previously told me that I care too much to be involved with her). W was too unavailable over the weekend to send me a simple text (suggesting to me that she is taking space for some reason).
The impact on me: This is exhausting. The ups and downs within a week are emotionally difficult to the extent that it is hard for me to focus on other things. I am not sure if I am happier now than I was while w and I were in virtual no-contact
It IS exhausting - but do you truly think you'll now be able to say "I did everything I could"?
Even if things don't go as you hope ~ you can walk away in that comfort.
When I finally moved on from my first M I knew it was time. I have not gotten there yet. When I moved on from w1 it felt like the door was shut tight and there was nothing else that could be done.
With my current W, I don't know that I will ever get to that similar place. I still believe there is a small chance that things will work out. I believe that if I a keep a connection alive, at some point w may come around. But circumstance have to come together that are mostly out of my control. Keeping with it is mostly exhausting and I am not sure how much longer I can keep going before moving on.
Sometimes I wonder if I will give up before w slams the door shut in my face. At some point I may get bolder and force her hand.
For now I keep plugging away. And I continue to work on me