Time for yet another new thread in my ongoing saga
Link to previous threads:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=31339Summary:
- BD was not quite 18 months ago
- Separated 14 months ago (W renting house 5 minutes away)
- 50-50 custody of kids
- W said about 5 months ago she wants to proceed with divorce. She said her lawyer filed the petition, but I've never received notification so I don't believe it was ever filed.
- About 4 months ago W was diagnosed with breast cancer, so the D went on hold. She underwent radiation treatments but elected not to have chemo. Her treatments were completed about 2 months ago.
- There is a much younger OM (mid-30's) who was actively involved with W, including going along with activities with our kids. Based on some snooping it seems clear that W has a crush on him, but I don't know if it's a PA or EA or if it goes both ways or not. It seems to have "cooled off" in the last couple of months, they're still in touch but he's not around as much from what the kids tell me.
Update- I contacted W yesterday and asked her what the status of the D was since I haven't heard anything for over a month. She said she submitted the revised paperwork and some questions to her L late last week and is supposed to meet with them, but hasn't heard back from them regarding a date for the meeting. I sent her the following response:
Thanks for the divorce info. I do want to tell you one thing in that regard, at this point I don't feel strongly about working on things but I would consider it for the kids' sake. This is really tearing them up, much more than you know because they don't talk to you about it. And you never went through it yourself, so you don't know how devastating it is. But once this divorce is final, that door closes forever. I will never consider reconciling after that. So make absolutely sure this is what you want before you file.
I wouldn't say it was the "right" thing to say from a DB'ing perspective, but I have been thinking about this for months and it is how I feel, and I wanted to inform W in writing. I am not real fired up about reconciling even before D, but if the D proceeds then I will close that chapter and be done with it. I fully expect not to get a response at all and I am sure I'll see the D paperwork soon. And that's OK. I said what I wanted to say and don't feel anything more needs to be said by me.
D19 is driving in from college probably as I write this. Once she gets here I'm taking the kids to Houston to my mom's for Thanksgiving. My brother (without his kids) and sister (with her family) will be there as well, so it should be a fun time! My mom has 20 acres and a big house, a 4 wheeler that the kids love to ride and a barn that we fly R/C helicopters in. And she always puts out a huge spread of food, she lives for this stuff
Just got a raise and bonus at work too, so that was great news
Unfortunately the bonus will almost all go to paying my property taxes, but it would have really crunched my budget if not for the bonus so it's very welcome.
Specialk posted this in my last thread but I couldn't reply because it was locked:
Seeing that book would have surprised me too! Have you noticed a change in your W's behavior recently?
If anything she's gotten more cold and distant lately. It seemed like she was warming up ever so slightly a month or so ago, but that was short-lived. Who knows what the deal was with the book (for those that didn't read it in the last thread, I saw a copy of "His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage" on her nightstand when I was picking up the dogs at her house), for all I know someone bought it for her and she just stuck it there without ever cracking it. Or maybe she's reading it so she can improve her R with OM, LOL! I'm not reading anything into it, especially in light of the news that she's pushing forward with D.
I wouldn't say it was the "right" thing to say from a DB'ing perspective, but I have been thinking about this for months and it is how I feel, and I wanted to inform W in writing. I am not real fired up about reconciling even before D, but if the D proceeds then I will close that chapter and be done with it. I fully expect not to get a response at all and I am sure I'll see the D paperwork soon. And that's OK. I said what I wanted to say and don't feel anything more needs to be said by me.
I dunno. I'd say it was the right thing to say from a DB perspective. You felt it, you thought about it for a long time, and you said it. DB is not ALL about getting your marriage back. It's about getting your life back regardless of what your spouse does or doesn't do. There is more to life than marriage, right? Your W has to make her decisions the same as you do and although she may be trying to figure things out, it may be too little too late for the marriage to be saved. It takes two.
Sounds like a great time for Thanksgiving. I hope it is for you and your kids and family.
Peace,
AJ
Thank you AJ, that gives me a boost of confidence to read your take on it, I appreciate it
And thanks for the wishes, I hope you have a great Thanksgiving as well, and I wish a great Thanksgiving to all my other DB buddies too
AS, decided to make a quick stop by the boards today to say hello and Happy Thanksgiving.
I believe you did the right thing by being honest, but these are things I sensed by reading the message:
1. There's no enthusiasm to reconcile (doing it "for the kids' sake.)
2. There's a hint of accusation: "you never went through it yourself, so you don't know how devastating it is." This is likely to place your W in a position of defending herself--and she'll stop listening.
3. There's a threat: "I will never consider reconciling after that."
You already sent the message, though, so you'll see what happens next. I know the way she's behaved in the past, so I completely understand the way you feel. Continue being a great father and taking care of yourself. Take care, AS.
AS,
Why do you think you had the need to tell W about your stand?
F
As, I understand your need to write that letter. I have struggled with putting across something similar to my W. The only thing that has stopped me is the realization that it would only be for me. W is making her decisions, and your input really is not on the table anymore in regards to what she takes into consideration. I think we, as the LBS, sometimes forget that our spouses feelings probably don't mimic ours, at least that hasn't been my experience. My guess is, she will use your letter as more fuel to flee.....but maybe that is exactly what you need. Maybe I do too.
I am happy to hear you are feeling strong!
Hey all,
Took the kids to my mom's farm for Thanksgiving, I think everyone had fun. The trip wasn't without some family drama, there is always friction between my dad and BIL but this time it really got ugly. But that's a story for another forum! My girls talked me into taking them Black Friday shopping, so we ventured out at around 11:00 pm. The mall was packed! It worked out well because they picked stuff out, I bought it and set it aside to give to them at Christmas. We ended up getting in bed around 2:30 am, ugh!
1. There's no enthusiasm to reconcile
That's correct, and that's what I was trying to communicate.
2. There's a hint of accusation: "you never went through it yourself, so you don't know how devastating it is."
I understand what you're saying, but there's a lot of history in my statement that's not being conveyed here. W and I have discussed this many times in the past going way back to before we were married, I have really opened up to her about the hurt I went through over my parents' divorce and the pain that I still carry to this day from it. She has always acknowledged that she didn't go through it and doesn't really understand how it could hurt as much as I've described. In fact it's one of the biggest reasons we were together for so many years before getting married and we've discussed that too.
3. There's a threat: "I will never consider reconciling after that."
I don't see it that way and doubt W does. I know a lot of WAS's have a fantasy that years down the road they might reconcile with the LBS, I just want to make sure she understands that it's not a possibility.
so you'll see what happens next
I really didn't expect any kind of response from her and didn't get any. We've communicated several times since about kid stuff (mainly upcoming bday and Christmas plans) but nothing more has been discussed about it. D is "full steam ahead".
Why do you think you had the need to tell W about your stand?
Because the D is imminent, I'm just making clear to her that if there's any fiber in her being that is having second thoughts then she needs to act on that now rather than later.
The only thing that has stopped me is the realization that it would only be for me.
Exactly right, and that's why I did it.
W is making her decisions, and your input really is not on the table anymore in regards to what she takes into consideration.
Quite right, but that's nothing new, we've been S'd over a year and we ceased having input into each others' lives a long time ago.
My guess is, she will use your letter as more fuel to flee
Nah, she was as "gone" as "gone" gets already. I think what I've learned over the last 18 months is that nothing I've said or done has changed that for her in the least. She is totally gone. I was cleaning some stuff off my computer and found all my notes from the MC we went through in June of last year. W said to the C that she felt "ambivalence" towards me. That word describes her attitude perfectly. There's no anger, hatred, spewing or anything of the sort. There's also no love or even "like" expressed. She's been completely ambivalent throughout. In the stories of reconciliation I've read, the WAS typically either continued to show some interest or they went to the opposite extreme of showing hostility. I've never read about an ambivalent, low-energy WAS that reconciled. The thing is, if a spouse is showing anger then they still have some kind of emotions for the spouse. And it's easier for negative emotions to transition to positive emotions then it is for love to emerge out of the absence of all emotion.
Nah, she was as "gone" as "gone" gets already. I think what I've learned over the last 18 months is that nothing I've said or done has changed that for her in the least. She is totally gone. I was cleaning some stuff off my computer and found all my notes from the MC we went through in June of last year. W said to the C that she felt "ambivalence" towards me. That word describes her attitude perfectly. There's no anger, hatred, spewing or anything of the sort. There's also no love or even "like" expressed. She's been completely ambivalent throughout. In the stories of reconciliation I've read, the WAS typically either continued to show some interest or they went to the opposite extreme of showing hostility. I've never read about an ambivalent, low-energy WAS that reconciled. The thing is, if a spouse is showing anger then they still have some kind of emotions for the spouse. And it's easier for negative emotions to transition to positive emotions then it is for love to emerge out of the absence of all emotion.
That describes my situation to a tee... no emotion at all. Funny thing is her father does the same thing, when angry at someone he disown's them and will refuse to speak at all for years. Coincidence??
What you did was state a boundry and take some of your power back. If X happens y and z will follow, period. I think at some point we need to be able to state our limits. What kind of life/relationship should we have? One full of second guesses and constant worry about what was said or a life where our SO accepts that we are all not perfect, forgives and tries to improve...
As long as that is how you feel and not a ploy to force her back and from your post's I don't think it's a tactic...
Good for you. On our way to closure, aren't we?
How strong you've become and sure of your path. Congrats.
Your kids will be okay, imo, I wouldn't get back with WAS for the kids. I am at the point where I want it all (a little greedy). I'm willing to wait, be it my H or someone else, but I couldn't do it "for the kids" simply because I don't think I am strong enough or graceful enough and my love tank would empty real fast.
Good Luck my friend
Hello, AS. Back for a visit to my friends tonight!
I think it was a necessary step for you to send that letter to your STBXW. It WAS for you and I think you will have peace knowing that you've stated everything you needed to say-- left no stones unturned, if you will!
Again, so many, many similarities in our situations!!! So, I can relate to where you are in lots of ways. I have always seen strength and conviction in your posts.
Glad to know you are moving on and that life is good!!
COme visit me!!
-turtle
Wow, I'm sure a lot of you have been hit with this winter storm but it sure has been a doozy! On Thursday they were predicting nasty icy roads for Friday, so our office stayed closed Friday. Good thing too, because the roads were terrible. I slept in Friday and got up to quite a shock- most of my trees had branches hanging down to the ground, weighed down because they still had leaves on them and those leaves were now coated with a 1/4" layer of ice! I had several large broken branches including one huge one blocking my drive. It was 26 and there was more freezing rain in the forecast for that night, so I was really worried my trees would be damaged even more. So instead of spending the day watching movies and playing PS3 games next to a toasty fire as I had planned, I spent it outside with a chainsaw, bowsaw and shovel freezing my tail off trying to save my trees! I beat as much ice off of them as I could with the shovel, then trimmed 2-3' off each branch to lighten the load. That was enough to get the branches from dragging the ground back up to 4' or so. Still drooping, but not in danger of breaking. Saturday it was even colder (20). I broke out the chain saw and cut the broken branches out of the trees to lighten the load on "good" branches. Also cut up the branch on the drive enough to move it. After that I had enough time to put out the Christmas stuff inside the house before W brought the kids over for my week. So much for a relaxing weekend
I think the trees are going to be OK though, it got above freezing yesterday and as the ice melted off the branches started popping back up. There are some holes due to the broken branches, but hopefully they'll fill back in next year.
That describes my situation to a tee... no emotion at all. Funny thing is her father does the same thing, when angry at someone he disown's them and will refuse to speak at all for years. Coincidence??
Interesting. My MIL is about emotionless as they get. She's almost like an automaton or something. Her H died of MS (when W was in high school) and W told me MIL would cry on the back porch every evening for years. I sometimes wonder if she eventually just turned the "feelings" switch off. She remarried, and her H was really a nice guy, very emotional, always telling her he loved her and how happy he was to have her in his life. I never, ever saw or heard her reciprocate. I wouldn't say W was like that before BD, but after? Yeah, at least towards me, and at least a little towards the kids too.
What kind of life/relationship should we have? One full of second guesses and constant worry about what was said or a life where our SO accepts that we are all not perfect, forgives and tries to improve...
Well said!!! I think it's the WAS's inability to forgive that is so perplexing to me, not just in my sitch but in most sitches here. I mean clearly there are some seriously changed people here that have become the spouses only a fool would leave, yet their WAS's just refuse to bend their position even a tiny bit.
As long as that is how you feel and not a ploy to force her back and from your post's I don't think it's a tactic...
I have most certainly done things to try to get her back in the past and (obviously) none of them worked. I ran out of tricks and ploys long ago, LOL! This time I thought about it quite a while before saying anything to make sure I wasn't doing it out of some misguided notion of getting her to change her mind.
Good for you. On our way to closure, aren't we?
Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever have closure! I can be detached and I can move on, but closure is elusive
And that's OK. My grandfather (dad's dad) died when I was a kid. My grandmother didn't die until over 30 years later, but she never had "closure" I wouldn't say. She never did want another R or M, he meant that much to her. Even 30 years later she couldn't talk about him without tearing up. She never stopped missing him. But she lived a happy life, so it wasn't a bad thing.
Your kids will be okay, imo, I wouldn't get back with WAS for the kids. I am at the point where I want it all (a little greedy). I'm willing to wait, be it my H or someone else, but I couldn't do it "for the kids" simply because I don't think I am strong enough or graceful enough and my love tank would empty real fast.
You're right of course, what good is there in staying together if the love tanks are always empty. It's not like the kids wouldn't notice. And would they even trust the M again after BD? Probably not. But just to be clear, I never said I would get back together for the kids, I said I would be willing to "try" for the sake of the kids. In other words, if not for the kids I'm to the point where I would file for D myself. When I think about how cold and unloving my W has been for years, and when I think about the R that I really want, I don't think she's capable of providing it. But, we do have kids and for their sake I would at least be willing to try. Not move back in, but date and go to counseling to see where things go. But W would have to want to try as well and I don't think she ever will.
Hello, AS. Back for a visit to my friends tonight!
Hey T, thanks for stopping by
I think it was a necessary step for you to send that letter to your STBXW. It WAS for you and I think you will have peace knowing that you've stated everything you needed to say-- left no stones unturned, if you will!
Yes, and ever since sending it I do feel greater peace than I did before.
Again, so many, many similarities in our situations!!! So, I can relate to where you are in lots of ways. I have always seen strength and conviction in your posts.
Thanks! Sometimes (as you know) being strong is easy, and other times it takes a tremendous amount of work. I used to think that strong people were just born that way, but I guess it really is true that you have to be brought through the fire to be made strong. Not that I'd wish this on anyone! But if we have to go through it we might as well come through the other side as chiseled iron rather than a puddle of sticky goo, LOL!
I forgot to mention that I asked W how her bouts of forgetfulness were going and she said better. She said they took her off the anti-depressants she's been on for 10+ years and put her on different ones. She said that during the transition (moving from one A/D to the other) that she was practically falling apart, but she feels better now.
S10's bday is in a couple of days. His BIG present is a minibike which is on a freight truck somewhere between here and CA. Because of the weather I have my doubts it's going to get here on time!! We're having a quick party for him Thursday and then a sleepover Friday. He wanted W to be there for the party (I have the kids this week) so I told her she was welcome to come. She said she'll take care of the cake.
Interesting side story- I was talking to one of the guys at the gym last night and we got on the subject of his WAW. He said his ex was getting heavy into drugs and alcohol, so he spent 50,000 bucks trying to get sole custody of his kids and in the end the court game them 50-50 custody. Then his ex went on a bender, abandoned the kids to him and left the state. He hasn't heard from her in 2 years. Just goes to show that no matter how much you spend or how good your evidence is you never know what the courts are going to do.
Time to update my sig again, S10 is S11 now! His bday was last Thursday and it was my week to have the kids. He had bball practice that day as well, so we decided to let him open his presents before practice, then go to dinner after practice. I told W she was welcome to join and she volunteered to make cupcakes for the bball team to hand out at practice.
Then we had a sleepover Friday night, I told W she was welcome to come over if she wanted, but if she didn't then that was fine too. She said she did want to come and offered to buy pizza and cake. Sounded good to me! W got there at around 7 pm and left around 10 pm, I finally crashed at 1:30am and the boys were still up. I woke the next morning to a house that looked like had been the venue for a frat party- empty soda cans, toys, games, clothes, etc. spread from one corner to the other. Kids were crashed on the couch, the floor and in chairs. LOL! They had fun though
D19 is on winter break from college and has been staying with me since she got home last Thursday. I took her and her bestie to Dark Hour, a haunted house in Plano. They're doing a Christmas-themed haunt called "Wreck the Halls". It was very nicely done, we had a great time there! We've also caught up on some shows I had recorded for her and watched a couple of movies. She's going to W's tonight.
I have the kids next week for Christmas. I took the week off, so it'll be nice to get to spend a lot of time with them. Need to come up with some fun activities, hopefully the weather holds out! I'm taking all the kids to a painting class on Saturday, two of us are painting Santas and the other two snow men. One set will be for my house and the other set will be Christmas presents from the kids to W. W invited herself over Christmas day which was fine with me, so we're all going to open presents together.
No news on the D papers since the last time I mentioned it. That was the week of Thanksgiving, W said she was supposed to meet with the lawyer and finalize things. Maybe she decided to wait until after Christmas.
AS,
As always you sound so well and in control of you and your life!
I hope you and the kids will have a tremendous christmas!
F
Thank you F
I really feel for the people here who are suffering through the holidays because of their sitches, I would love to see more people turn that around and have fun IN SPITE of their sitches. Personally I've always loved the holidays and despite my sitch I had a great Thanksgiving with family and am looking forward to a wonderful 10 days off work for Christmas and New Years and spending much of that with the kids
I've got the house decorated inside and out, I had a lady friend over that said it looked like Martha Stewart had been here, LOL! There will be movies watched, video games played, board games and cards on the floor next to the fire, hot chocolate consumed, stories told, etc. etc. What's not to love about the holidays?
So it's MS not AS now.....
Just remembered something else I forgot to mention. W still takes her dog to OM's house every day and goes to OM's after work to pick the dog up, and yes, she does often "linger" there. D17 called me a couple of evenings ago and was really angry because she had been trying to call W to find out what was for dinner and W wasn't responding and D17 knew she was at OM's. I offered to get take-out and bring it to her (she was neck-deep in homework). When I went by it was around 7:15 and W was still not there. D17 was in tears, said she felt like W doesn't care, and she was frustrated with her homework and really hungry. D19 was with me and between the two of us we were able to calm her down and help her through her homework (she was doing physics equations that I swear I didn't see until I was in college). W didn't get there until around 8:00 and we were still helping D17 with her homework. Anyway, still a lot of friction between D17 and W. W did text later and thanked me for helping D17.
So it's MS not AS now.....
Sorry, that sailed right over my head, the only MS I can think of is multiple sclerosis?
Ms. Stander... as in apron strings. lol I assume by the whistling icon after the comment. Maybe I'm wrong but that's the way I took it.
I had a lady friend over that said it looked like Martha Stewart had been here
Very cool
Ms. Stander... as in apron strings.
Hahaha! The lady that made the Martha Stewart comment was giving me crap for baking cookies that evening too, although in my defense they were those "guy cookies" that come in a box that you just slap down on a cookie sheet and bake, LOL!
AS,
Are you an "Old Fairy"?? I called my Dad this when I'm in a joking mood as he always loved to cook and decorate. You've had it pretty good with MS. Coulda been worse, ya know.
I can't remember if I mentioned I bought S11 a minibike for his bday. For those of you who are a bit older you might remember the Taco minibikes from the 60's/ 70's. They're back in production making the same bike they made back then. It's a kit, but there's not much to putting it together. S11 and I have been working on it an hour or two each evening. I'm letting him do as much of the work as possible and he LOVES it. I don't think I've ever seen him so excited about something!
Wonka- Old Fairy, OF? Oh man that gave me a good laugh
I am a great cook, as long as we're talking about taking something out of the freezer and sticking it in the microwave. I'm a master at that! I do enjoy decorating around the house though, I'm a licensed architect and interior designer so it kind of goes with the territory
I've just got to share something while it's on my mind. I was eating dinner with my D's last night. W was taking S11 to bball practice. S11 was tired and whiny and didn't want to go, so what does W do? She dials my number and hands the phone to S11 and makes it MY responsibility to talk him into going (which I did). Then I hang up and mention to my D's that I don't understand why W is calling me for this, and they both said it's because he never listens to W.
I have that "daddy voice" that is stern but not angry, when the kids are acting up I can say a few words and it gets their attention quickly. Do they like it? No, because it takes them away from their video game or texting or sleeping and makes them do their homework or chore or wake up or whatever it is they're SUPPOSED to be doing.
After BD my W criticized me for it, saying "the kids don't like it when you talk to them that way." And yet, before BD if she couldn't get them to do something then it was "AS, can you tell S to go take a shower?" Or "AS, can you tell D to do her homework?" I would even say "why don't you ask them?" And she would say "because they never listen to me!"
So before BD it was a benefit, after BD it was me being bossy, controlling and maybe even "mean". And yet, even in S she's leaning on me for that. Hmmmm. Anyway, my point is that we don't always have to do 180's on every one of the WAS's gripes, because the WAS will even take beneficial qualities of the LBS's and make them sound negative.
S11 had a choir performance before his bball practice. Both D's went with me to watch it and W said she'd meet us there. It was a really, really cute Christmas performance, they had the stage set up as a 50's diner and some of the kids were dressed for it (S11 had his "Fonzie" leather jacket on). S11 had several speaking lines and executed them perfectly!
It was about a 30 minute program and W was 15 minutes late and missed ALL of S11's speaking lines (rolls eyes)
On another note- BRING ON THE VACATION!!!!! I'm at work for a few more hours, then not back until 01-02, woohoo! When D's and I ate last night we talked about things we could do on vacation, so far we're going to see the Hobbit, go to a drive-through Christmas light display (we've done this every couple of years since they were little) and go to the ICE! exhibit at the Gaylord Texan in Grapevine. Let's get the party started
Oh the drama
So I mentioned that we're going to ICE! next week. W really enjoyed it last year, she was the one that set it up. I have the kids all next week and am also on vacation while W only gets Christmas eve and Christmas day off, so she is not going to get to see the kids except when she comes over to my house on Christmas day. So I thought I'd invite her to ICE! so that she'd get to participate in something fun with the kids. The kids also asked me if she was going when we were talking about it, so I told them I would invite her. She replied back "no, but thanks for the offer" which is totally fine by me, it frees us up to go during the day when it's not as busy. I texted the girls and told them W wasn't going and that we could go whenever we wanted, and to figure out when they want to go.
Then last night D17 comes by the house and tells me she's mad at W. She said W had scheduled them to go to some kind of concert, but D19's college roommate wanted to go so W wanted D17 to give up her ticket. D17 said "I thought you had an extra ticket, what happened to that?" W just looked at her, and D17 said "what, OM is going??? Why does OM have to go to EVERYTHING? And what's up with ICE? Why aren't you going?" No response from W. "You're not going because dad is going, is that it?" W- "yes". D17- "It's not like it's a date or something, he invited you so we could do something as a FAMILY! Do you remember your FAMILY?" Ouch. I tried explaining to D17 that we're really not a family anymore and that W doesn't see us as a family either, and I also tried explaining to her that I didn't invite W for that reason, but just so she could spend some time with them.
After D17 left I called W and told her that I had talked to D17 and she told me about the blowup, that I knew she wasn't going to get to spend any time with the kids next week and so I invited her along for that reason and not to be a "family". I told her I explained that to D17 as well. I told her that personally I don't care what she does with OM, but that the kids care a LOT about her activities with him and they resent it a LOT. I said they talk about that to me a lot and she replied "really?" Like she was genuinely surprised. I told her that I'm not telling her what to do, but that she should consider the kids and their feelings.
So there it is, 18 months post-BD and W refuses an invitation to something with the kids just because mean ol' AS will be there, LOL!
Last night W was running late once again, wasn't able to pick up S11 until 8:00. He told me he didn't want to go with her. I told him that was fine, but he needed to call W. He called her and she tried to talk him into going to her house and I overheard him say "but all you do is sleep all weekend, you don't do anything with me at all." I'm not sure I've mentioned that, but ever since W's menopause started she sleeps until anywhere between noon and 2 pm every Saturday and Sunday. Both W and the kids have told me this. The girls tend to sleep in too, but S12 gets up no later than 9:00 usually, so he's the only one awake over there for hours. Anyway, W finally gave up and told him to stay here.
S11 and I finished his minibike last night! He was so excited he made me go out at 10:30 on a super-cold night just to get gas for it
We started it up and he took it for a short circuit around the drive before putting it away because it was sprinkling and he didn't want it to get wet. He then sent a text to W and the girls telling them it was done, then sent a pic of it to them and told them he had named it "silverwind" (it's powder-coated silver). Then he warned them not to scratch the paint, ROTFLOL! Chip off the ol' block
Wow! What a mean mean man you are!!! Your poor wife, she's probably a really nice person....(somewhere wayyyyy deep deep down inside)and probably only when she is sleeping....
LOL 2old! I know, right? I'm like Hellboy, I have to saw my devil-horns off every night so no one knows the truth!
Took the kids to the painting class today, we had so much fun and dang these kids are talented! I've always been pretty artistic but they certainly give me a run for it! I've taken the D's to a class before, but S11 had never been. He had a blast!
Hi AS,
I just got caught up on your new thread. It now seems that your former forgiving and near unconditional love for your W has been replaced by anger at how the WW is dismissive of the kids needs and feelings, along with your own indifference or ambivalence gaining steam.
It gets old to continue to be the punching bag for someone elses choices. I feel you needed to send that portion of the letter for yourself and your own personal boundaries.
You were not vindictive or placing guilt or shame upon your W, so recognize and feel good about defining your stance and last resort boundary.
In regards to that book by Dr. Willard Harley of the Marriage Builders Forum, His Needs, Her Needs.....
Dr. Harley himself states that this particular book is not appropriate for a Wayward Spouse's current foggy mindset. It allows for the WS to justify all of their many Emotional Needs that were not being met.
I also agree that there are a significant amount of WS's that refuse to acknowledge the changes so many LB Spouses have made. (They only realize it when it is too late for the LBS to still desire to R)
Oh well, i hope your Christmas vacation is filled with fun and joy with your chdren.
Take Care,
AITL
Happy New Year everyone
I had a really great vacation, spent a lot of time with the kids over the Christmas break. They are now on a ski trip with W, I'm happy for them that they were able to do that as the kids have never been skiing. I'm not sure whether OM went along, I'm guessing he probably did but I don't really care one way or the other.
I met a woman over the break that has made me rethink my attitude about never getting married again. I'm not sure if I've mentioned it in my threads, but to this point I felt like I may not ever get married again because I just couldn't see blending my kids and someone else's kids into a "new" family, especially with two of my kids being older. Then I met this lady. She's just a bit younger than me, extremely intelligent and kind, never married, no kids, beautiful. We've only been out twice but we've connected like no one else I've gone out with over the last 6+ months. I just never thought I'd meet someone I was compatible with that didn't have kids, but now that I have I can see what a perfect fit it could be. Not that she is "the one", but she has made me realize that even if she isn't, the possibilities are out there
Save the 2x4's, I'm not saying I'm running off and getting married or even getting serious with this lady after only 2 dates, just that she has changed my perception of what my future path may be.
It now seems that your former forgiving and near unconditional love for your W has been replaced by anger at how the WW is dismissive of the kids needs and feelings, along with your own indifference or ambivalence gaining steam.
Maybe I've posted some misleading info, because I certainly don't feel any anger towards W. I've posted a lot about my D's anger towards her, perhaps there's some confusion that I share those feelings? But I don't. However, you are quite right about the indifference/ ambivalence. One of the DB'ers posted a Facebook comment about his current feelings for his W, and I posted that I love my W as the mother of my kids and someone I spent a quarter century with, but I'm not in love with her anymore. I said it's not something I wanted, or tried to do, it just happened. And it doesn't bring me pleasure or relief, in fact it's more disappointing that I've lost all feelings for her.
In regards to that book by Dr. Willard Harley of the Marriage Builders Forum, His Needs, Her Needs.....
Dr. Harley himself states that this particular book is not appropriate for a Wayward Spouse's current foggy mindset. It allows for the WS to justify all of their many Emotional Needs that were not being met.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Perhaps that's why she was drawn to it, it gives her some justification for what she's been doing. That is, if she's even reading it. I just saw it on her nightstand, she's never been much of a reader and tends to buy or be given books and read 10 or so pages before putting it into nightstand purgatory, LOL!
Oh well, i hope your Christmas vacation is filled with fun and joy with your chdren.
Thank you, it was awesome! Being back at work today is not so awesome, haha!
Just wanted to add a comment that I thought about changing my "handle" here because I'm not standing for my M anymore and haven't been for a while. But whenever others here have changed their handle, it always confuses the heck out of me
So I'm going to leave it as-is, and beg forgiveness from those who feel it's an inappropriate handle given my status.
Well, AS - then just stand for you and the children
No 2x4 - I am happy for you! Meeting a person like this and discovering that an interaction like that changes outwievs and beliefs must be great!
Happy new year!
I like that...from now on we will say you are standing for you and your kids
I am glad that you met someone who made you see all the possibilities that could be.
Thank you both, I like that a lot too
Soooooo... my boss is early 60's, married 35 or so years, two daughters, both fully grown with great jobs and married with children. They have zero debt, nice cars, a big, beautiful house. They go on several vacations a year to a timeshare in Cabo. Boss's W just retired and now spends much of her time caring for the grandkids. When I was going through all the misery after BD I just kept thinking "man, if he only knew how lucky he is!!!" His M survived raising kids, menopause, etc. etc. So we go to lunch today and start talking, turns out he got BD'd yesterday. She's been unhappy for years, she's ready to walk out the door, he needs to get his s*** together or she's gone. What a way to start the new year! Needless to say I had plenty of info to share with him. He's been doing a lot of the wrong stuff- trying to convince her the M is great, asking her to remember all the vacations they have each year, the house, etc. He said at this point she says she's willing to work on things, but she gave him an ultimatum. I told him I'd give him my copies of DR and 5LL to read and also sent him a link to the Retrouvaille site (there's a session coming up in our area in a couple of weeks). Theirs is apparently a SSM too, he said they've been ML once or twice a YEAR. My fingers are crossed that it's not too late for him.
Fuckin people....I obviously don't know your boss's wife but it's a pretty damn shitty aspect of the human personality to never be content with what you have. What does it say about us that we always want what we can't have and then when we get it, we don't want it anymore. It seems like it takes a truly enlightened person to get past this- especially in this day and age.
"I'm not happy anymore". Biggest line of bullshit that's anyone can say....
...end rant.
Your bossy is lucky to have you in his corner AS!
That's wonderful that you can share what you've learned, I hope they are able to save their marriage.
Typo: *your boss is lucky to have you in his corner*
Dingo, it really is mind-boggling. I mean they literally have it all. They're wealthy, successful, the kids are totally independent of them, they have a huge home that they built themselves that is paid for, luxury cars that are also paid for. His W has traveled all over the place since retiring and because their kids and their families are both local she gets to spend a lot of time caring for the grandkids. Some women would kill to have her "problems"! But she's not "happy" and hasn't been for some time. It is so similar to my sitch that it's eery.
Mimi, thanks, I hope I can help him. He's a fixit guy, so I'm really trying to talk him down out of that mode because it's just making his W more angry! He asked his W if she would go to MC and she said she wasn't sure. Ouch. I think maybe she's farther down the WAS path than he realizes. I told him to quit pushing MC and check into RetroV.
So I mentioned W took the kids on a skiing trip and I didn't know if OM went along, but assumed he probably did. S11 called me from there last night and wanted to Skype, while we were doing that I saw OM in the background. They are all staying at W's sister's place. After I hung up I was just really struck with what strange and bizarre behavior this is for W. It is so completely unlike the W I used to know. I look at it this way- before BD if W's sister had left her H and told W she was going to come visit us with her sons and a new BF and stay in our house I think W would have freaked out! There would have been NO WAY she'd allow her sister to stay here with a BF while still married to her H, ESPECIALLY with her kids. She would have been shocked that her sister would even ask. I would have heard stories every day after work about how scandalous her sister is behaving. I really don't know W anymore, she is a total stranger. The W I knew has been totally replaced by this new persona, one that I don't care for in the least! So strange.
AS, good to hear about you doing well, spending some great time with your kids, and meeting a nice woman. I’m not convinced though that you are not standing anymore. I can see that the fact that OM was at the ski trip bothered you some. I might be wrong though, it is just my impression.
About your boss… ML just two times year might be a huge problem for his W. I can see how she could not think about all other good things in her life, but sees this as a big issue. I can relate, actually. I had a good life. The things that I was upset with my H about were the luck of affection and his NOT desire to ML. I almost walked out of the M 5 years ago. I realized that I could not and didn’t want to do it, and I tried to work it out hoping that I could get what I needed. Needless to say that H felt a lot of pressure in this department. I also nagged some. He BD’d me. So, what I want to say that ML issue could be main one for your boss. Just my opinion.
BF, you're right, it did bother me. I'm not sure it bothered me because of the relationship between W and me (maybe it did on some level), but I know for sure it bothered me because I just recently had a talk with W about how all the kids have said to me that OM is around too much and it makes them feel uncomfortable. I said to her that of course she's free to do what she wants, but the kids tell me they still hope that we're going to reconcile and while both of us know that will never happen, it hurts them to see OM around all the time. That was maybe a month ago. I offered to let W have the kids on one day of Christmas week (I had them that week) and she accepted taking them on the evening of Christmas eve. So they got to spend a nice evening and dinner on Christmas eve with W... and OM! (found out from the kids later) Then this week they go on a ski trip with W... and OM! Ugh! It just irks me that he's around the kids so much. He seems like a nice guy, that's not the issue. The issue is the kids are still struggling to accept the sitch and W just keeps throwing OM in their faces. I'm not going to say anything else to W about it since I already did and she chose to ignore it, so I'm just venting about it here, thanks for listening
Thank you for the feedback on my boss's sitch. He said that the only times they ever ML were after she had had a lot to drink but wasn't drunk enough to pass out, otherwise she never wanted to. Obviously I'm only hearing one side to the story, but his comment is that she was the one that never wanted to but he did. It could be that she didn't want to because there was a general lack of affection (that's why I suggested 5LL to him). I haven't talked to him beyond that one lunch, I'm sure we'll be talking more about it.
I wonder if your W feels that since OM is part of her life the kids need to get use to him being around, thus she invites him in hopes their feelings for him will change w/ time and experiences together.
I know that has to be a tough situation, especially when hearing your kids hope for R and do not enjoy being around OM. You are handling it well. We cant be stone w/ every situation...some things will affect us at times. Its good you've taken note of how you felt.
W came by last night to pick up S11 from my house. Lately she's been bringing her dog in which is a little unusual, before she would just leave her car running in the drive, come in and grab up S11 and leave. But last night she brought her dog in, closed the garage door, came in the living room and sat down. We chatted a while about a lot of different things, it's the longest convo we've had in some time. I asked her how she's feeling and she said her arm has been really bad (the one she had surgery on for the cancer). She went to the doctor and has lymphedema. She is supposed to start physical therapy on Monday. She said she has to pay for it out-of-pocket and then frowned and said she wanted to get a hearing aid, but can't now because of this. It just absolutely broke my heart. After she left I went to take a shower and just broke down crying for the first time in... I don't even know, probably a year. I cried because I hate to see her in pain, because she shouldn't have to choose between physical therapy and a hearing aid, because she's too young to even have that kind of stuff on her radar, because I want to help her but she doesn't want me to. Oh man this is tough, I can GAL and have PMA and be independent and have my own life but I clearly will never be able to just turn off my feelings for her. I hurt for her.
I wonder if your W feels that since OM is part of her life the kids need to get use to him being around, thus she invites him in hopes their feelings for him will change w/ time and experiences together.
I'm sure she does think that, that exposing them to him all the time will help them to more readily accept him. I think she started pushing him on them too soon though. All the kids feel very strongly that M is forever. I think if she had waited until D then they might have been more receptive, but I don't think she knows how much it hurts them for her to bring OM around when she's still married to their dad.
I forgot to mention that the lymphedema may require that she wear a compression sleeve for the rest of her life. That contributed to the crying session too, that this and the hearing problems are permanent, not things that can be cured.
That really s*cks to hear. I know what you mean about "feeling" for your wife. People like us, people who actually give a damn; it's so painful for us when we see the ones we care about hurting.
I've followed a lot of your posts and I can't believe how spot on you are. It's all stuff I've witnessed during our first break up, but it's refreshing to hear someone else say it again. I know you'll figure something out regarding your sitch.
You remind me a lot of this other "older" guy that helped me out on a another forum during my first break up. I really respect the wisdom of people much older than myself.
It just absolutely broke my heart. After she left I went to take a shower and just broke down crying for the first time in... I don't even know, probably a year. I cried because I hate to see her in pain, because she shouldn't have to choose between physical therapy and a hearing aid, because she's too young to even have that kind of stuff on her radar, because I want to help her but she doesn't want me to. Oh man this is tough, I can GAL and have PMA and be independent and have my own life but I clearly will never be able to just turn off my feelings for her. I hurt for her.
I'm really sorry to hear this. I really don't have any clever thing to say but it just breaks my heart hearing this from somebody so strong and inspiration on this board.
I am really sorry to hear your W is going through this. My W was in the hospital for most of this past September. She had to have a foot of her small / large intestine removed and had complication. I made a point of bring at least one of our children by everyday. She asked me why I bothered. I told her that when I was in the hospital and I never saw the kids or barely her that I felt alone in the world. I also felt that the kids needed to see how family members supported each other in tough times. I also cried and prayed a lot for her.
I don't think you will ever be able to turn off your feelings for her. Showing that you care and are concerned in front of your children will go a long ways. Set the best example you can for them regardless of what the W does. You will be comfortable with yourself for doing the right thing.
W went to the doctor yesterday and it's confirmed that she does have lymphedema and will need to wear a compression sleeve day and night for the rest of her life. D17 told me this late last night, she said W was very upset and crying over the realization that this isn't something that will just go away, and that she felt really unattractive. I called W and told her I was sorry to hear the prognosis, but incredibly she just threw the wall-of-ice right up in my face. Very cold and indifferent when discussing it with me. I just will never get used to how she will totally spill her emotions to others even if she just met them in the bleachers at a ball game, but to me it's all the ice queen treatment. Anyway, I asked her a bunch of questions- the sleeve she wears during the day is kind of like a panty hose thing but the one she wears at night is a large tube that she says is 12" in diameter. She is in stage 1 of this, stage 3 is "lymphostatic elephantiasis" and you can probably infer from that name what it looks like. If she keeps wearing the sleeve it will supposedly stay in stage 1. I just offered her support and validation as much as I could, but it was not warmly received. That's OK, such is life with a WAS.
People like us, people who actually give a damn; it's so painful for us when we see the ones we care about hurting.
It really is painful. It doesn't help that she is so damned cold towards me when I'm trying to reach out to her too. It's not like I'm trying to reconcile, I'm just trying to offer friendly support like I would to anyone I know. But her attitude makes it feel like I'm doing something wrong, not sure that statement would make sense to anyone but a LBS, LOL!
I've followed a lot of your posts and I can't believe how spot on you are. It's all stuff I've witnessed during our first break up, but it's refreshing to hear someone else say it again. I know you'll figure something out regarding your sitch.
Thank you, that's kind of you, I appreciate it
You remind me a lot of this other "older" guy that helped me out on a another forum during my first break up. I really respect the wisdom of people much older than myself.
Thanks again, I'm flattered!
I'm really sorry to hear this. I really don't have any clever thing to say but it just breaks my heart hearing this from somebody so strong and inspiration on this board.
Thank you!
My W was in the hospital for most of this past September. She had to have a foot of her small / large intestine removed and had complication.
Oh my gosh! Does she have Crohn's Disease or Colitis maybe?
I made a point of bring at least one of our children by everyday. She asked me why I bothered. I told her that when I was in the hospital and I never saw the kids or barely her that I felt alone in the world. I also felt that the kids needed to see how family members supported each other in tough times. I also cried and prayed a lot for her.
That is really amazing of you! I have a friend who divorced her abusive H many years ago and he still goes out of his way to make her life as miserable as possible. If she were in the hospital he would not only keep the kids away, but would tell her she was getting just what she deserved in whatever ailment put her there. There are a lot of people like that out there. It amazes me how DB'ing people are just the opposite- they are warm, caring, passionate people and it is astonishing to me that their spouses can't see it.
I don't think you will ever be able to turn off your feelings for her. Showing that you care and are concerned in front of your children will go a long ways. Set the best example you can for them regardless of what the W does. You will be comfortable with yourself for doing the right thing.
Wise words!
I'm very sorry to hear about your wife, AS. And also sorry that your kindness and compassion was received with ice. It is uncanny how even 'normaL' offerings of kindness are taken so coldly by the WAS.
Keep being authentic AS- you are a good man
W came by last night to drop off a tuition check for D19. She had her temporary sleeve on and wow, it's huge. It looked like some kind of lining (cotton maybe) wrapped tightly with that putty-colored bandage material. It extended from high on her shoulder all the way down to her fingers and was even wrapped around each finger. I was so stunned looking at it that I didn't even know what to say. I managed to eke out a couple of questions about if it hurts (a little) and if it inhibits her mobility (yes, can barely bend at the elbow or use her fingers), how long she has to wear it (3 weeks) and if it ever comes off (only during physical therapy). She didn't stay long and after she left I felt bad for not offering any emotional support for what has got to be a major change for her. This morning I sent her this email:
"Thanks for the check, I'll deposit it at lunch and I should be able to pay the tuition by this afternoon.
I'm so sorry that you have to wear that compression sleeve, it really breaks my heart that you've had to go through so much with the cancer. (D17) said that the sleeve makes you feel ugly, but your beauty has always come from within and isn't just about looks so I hope the sleeve doesn't make you feel down for long. I'm sure your mobility will be better once they remove the temporary wrap you have on now, but let me know if there's anything you need help with while you're having to wear the temporary one. I'm sure it makes even simple tasks more complicated, so I'll be happy to help if you need anything." I doubt it'll get a response and I don't expect it, but I felt like I needed to say SOMETHING to her.
I'm very sorry to hear about your wife, AS. And also sorry that your kindness and compassion was received with ice. It is uncanny how even 'normaL' offerings of kindness are taken so coldly by the WAS.
Keep being authentic AS- you are a good man
Thank you for stopping by Busting, and for the great encouragement
Wow AS - i am so sorry to hear the news about your wife. I think its just amazing how you keep up a loving persona in the face of all that coldness. You have been very supportive of me in my situation and I wanted to come by and let you know that I am reading your thread as well. While I don't have much advice to offer, I do truly wish the best for you and your family.
Hang in there man!!
AS, you are most definitely the definition of Grace. You are inspirational, for sure. Sorry you are going through this.
You said exactly the right words to your W, plus you also have the true conviction and empathy behind those words to back them up.
You are wise to not expect a response, yet if you still have feelings as you obviously do, you always will have a glimmer of hope.
She may someday realize how lucky she still is to have you in her life to any extent.
Prayers for you and your Wife.
AITL
AS, I just want to echo what everyone else has already said . . . I am sorry that you and your W are going through this. I am so impressed with how you handle yourself despite your W's unfriendly reaction. I know how much it must hurt you. For what it's worth, many of us on this board have learned so much and continue to learn not only from your advice on our threads but from watching you and how you handle your own sitch.
((AS))
I really admire the man you have become, AS. I hope I get to that point someday. I am so sorry that your wife has to go through this, and I am sorry for you as well. Stay strong, my friend
Quote for the day- “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” (Henry Ford)
I forgot to mention in the last updates that I revived one of my old GAL activities a couple of weeks ago, I'm involved in building houses with Habitat for Humanity again. It's something I did before BD but let lapse when W told me after BD that she thought it was selfish of me to "spend all that time" doing Habitat and leaving her to fend for herself with the kids. How ironic that someone could view doing volunteer work as “selfish”!! The other irony is that she and the kids all sleep until noon or later on Saturdays and I would leave before 7:00 and get back at around 1:00, so it was hardly an imposition on her. Often when I got home they were just getting up for the day. Anyway, I think it was a misguided 180 attempt on my part to quit going. I think we all get so focused on “fixing” every “problem” the WAS lays on us that we don’t stop to consider whether in some cases their complaints are even valid or not. D17 needed to get some volunteer hours in so she went with me the last two weekends. It was fun having here there with me and she said she enjoyed it.
I see W a few times a week and she’s still dealing with that really uncomfortable wrap around her arm. It greatly limits her mobility. She seems to be in good spirits though, jokes about it like saying if she doesn’t have to turn while driving she props it up on top of the steering wheel. I asked her if she puts the seat back and turns the stereo up really loud too, LOL! Usually we just see each other a few minutes here and there, but we sit together at S11’s basketball games and chat back and forth. Strangely it’s those times that we get along the best and she seems most relaxed and like her old self. Seems like the other times I see her at my house or hers when doing kid exchanges she’s got her castle walls up.
No news on the D, I’m still keeping with the “don’t ask” policy on that.
I’m still heavily into weight lifting, I finally had to break down and custom order new dress shirts because my old ones are now too tight in the chest and arms. Even my winter coats are a bit snug now. It’s a nice “problem” to have
Wow AS - i am so sorry to hear the news about your wife. I think its just amazing how you keep up a loving persona in the face of all that coldness. You have been very supportive of me in my situation and I wanted to come by and let you know that I am reading your thread as well. While I don't have much advice to offer, I do truly wish the best for you and your family.
Hang in there man!!
Thanks Dingo! W just has one more week of the “heavy” wrap and then gets to switch to the one that’s more of just a compression sleeve, so I think she’ll be much better after that.
AS, you are most definitely the definition of Grace. You are inspirational, for sure. Sorry you are going through this.
Thank you! I really embraced the “woe is me” attitude for a long time I think, but now I realize that maybe I needed this to shock me out of my complacency. My M was on autopilot, but I kind of was too. This has made me take a keener interest in doing something with myself and my life. I certainly wouldn’t wish any of our sitches on anyone, but if it happens then we might as well accept the challenge and turn it into something positive.
You said exactly the right words to your W, plus you also have the true conviction and empathy behind those words to back them up.
You are wise to not expect a response, yet if you still have feelings as you obviously do, you always will have a glimmer of hope.
She may someday realize how lucky she still is to have you in her life to any extent.
Prayers for you and your Wife.
Thank you, that’s very kind of you
I’m not sure I’m quite the saint that I may sound like here though, LOL! I try, but certainly there are things I could do better, I’m a work in progress!
AS, I just want to echo what everyone else has already said . . . I am sorry that you and your W are going through this. I am so impressed with how you handle yourself despite your W's unfriendly reaction. I know how much it must hurt you. For what it's worth, many of us on this board have learned so much and continue to learn not only from your advice on our threads but from watching you and how you handle your own sitch.
Thank you Melissa! I do have to say though, if you can get to the point of real detachment, and I think I’ve achieved that, then your spouse’s reaction to things really don’t hurt you anymore. To me it’s more perplexing than painful, I look at the way she reacts to me and I just don’t get it. I used to take it personally but I don’t anymore, because she is literally the only person in my entire life that shuts me out and treats me so coldly. That is all on HER, not me. She’s so mired in the fog that she can’t see the real me, just some made-up version she concocted to convince herself that I was responsible for her unhappiness.
I really admire the man you have become, AS. I hope I get to that point someday. I am so sorry that your wife has to go through this, and I am sorry for you as well. Stay strong, my friend
Thanks SP, I appreciate it! I do feel bad that W has to go through it, and that it is FOREVER, not something that she just has to do for a while. Hopefully this is the last complication she'll have to go through!
AnotherStander, as other mentioned I'm sorry to hear about your wife's condition. I think you are taking the high road in all things.
I hear you on weight lifting and getting new clothes, doesn't it feel great?! My boss said something about me starting to really fill out my clothes, that was pretty flattering. I hope others are complimenting you on that as well.
Keep up the good work!
That's a great quote and so true. I actually wrote it on the cover of my 'Situation Journal.' Thanks for sharing that.
I also think the line about our lives being on autopilot probably resonates with almost everyone here. I know I felt that way about myself (as well as my M). I remember a few years back thinking 'is this all there is?' - and being strangely content with that - even though I recognized I wasn't really happy.
Better to live through a few years of really tough times with a happy ending than a lifetime of complacency.
AS,
I also wanted to add my thoughts about you. I look forward to reading your posts and perspective. You have been very inspiring to me.
Groov
Not alot to add - just following along. The comment around complacency did remind me of something I heard yesterday related to contentment......
This particular lady defined being Contentment in a positive light which really stuck with me at the time.
"Contentment is being fully satisfied with where you currently are on the road to where you are going"
Very different than how I think Contentment is often portrayed in today's "instant gratification" society.
In these trying times trying to keep that statement front my mind. Not easy, but has certainly helped me the last 2 days so thought that I would share......
Stay strong!
That is really amazing of you! I have a friend who divorced her abusive H many years ago and he still goes out of his way to make her life as miserable as possible. If she were in the hospital he would not only keep the kids away, but would tell her she was getting just what she deserved in whatever ailment put her there. There are a lot of people like that out there.
>>> It amazes me how DB'ing people are just the opposite- they are warm, caring, passionate people and it is astonishing to me that their spouses can't see it. <<<
Why is that the spouses can't or won't see it? Is it just me or does anyone else wonder if "we" the DB'ers are going about it wrong. Do you ever think we are just giving in and our WAS's are saying this has been the easiest Divorce ever, My H or W didn't even put up a fight, I guess they knew it was for the best too.
Do you think they want us to Man or Women up and be strong and take control of the situation?
Didn't mean to hijack, but sometimes I feel like Im going about this all wrong and feel like Im being walked on.
AS it sounds to me that you don't like it when some don't accept you. I don't believe that W is the only human being in the universe that treats you coldly and has shut you out. I have a hunch that anyone who does not admire you well you know....
I hear you on weight lifting and getting new clothes, doesn't it feel great?! My boss said something about me starting to really fill out my clothes, that was pretty flattering.
It is a great feeling, and congrats on your transformation as well!
Darned expensive to replace all the work clothes though, but I needed to anyway.
I also think the line about our lives being on autopilot probably resonates with almost everyone here. I know I felt that way about myself (as well as my M). I remember a few years back thinking 'is this all there is?' - and being strangely content with that - even though I recognized I wasn't really happy.
Yeah, "content" is a good word because I felt the same way, I wasn't as happy and fulfilled as I could have been but I was content with the status quo. If I had known how unhappy W was I would have done it differently though.
I also wanted to add my thoughts about you. I look forward to reading your posts and perspective. You have been very inspiring to me.
Thank you!
"Contentment is being fully satisfied with where you currently are on the road to where you are going"
Very different than how I think Contentment is often portrayed in today's "instant gratification" society.
That's an interesting definition, and by THAT definition I should not have been content because where I was going was BD. Even though I didn't know it, perhaps I would have if I wasn't on autopilot. I should have been more aware and involved.
Is it just me or does anyone else wonder if "we" the DB'ers are going about it wrong. Do you ever think we are just giving in and our WAS's are saying this has been the easiest Divorce ever, My H or W didn't even put up a fight, I guess they knew it was for the best too.
Interesting thought. If we end up in D, then could we have done something differently after BD that would have saved the M? Unfortunately I guess we'll never know. But the beauty of DB'ing is it takes us away from being angry and bitter towards the WAS and puts our focus on making ourselves better, so even if the M doesn't survive we still emerge well-prepared for the next stage in life. My brother has been stuck for 6 or 7 years now because he is STILL angry and resentful towards his WAW. I've seen how it's ruined his life and that is not a place where anyone wants to be!
AS it sounds to me that you don't like it when some don't accept you.
Well, first the ice queen treatment is not something I view as acceptance or non-acceptance of me, but rather just as the way she behaves towards me. She clearly accepts me as a person and as a father, she has said some really great things about me to myself and to others (not lately but in the months after BD). Second, it's not that I don't like it, I just don't understand it. It's perplexing to me. And that's really just a statement about WAS behavior in general, because I know many of them do it and I know there's no answer as to why they do it. I guess I'm just venting my thoughts when I say I don't understand it.
I don't believe that W is the only human being in the universe that treats you coldly and has shut you out.
Well, believe it or not, I can't think of anyone else. I mean sure I've gotten in arguments with people, and have gotten the silent treatment for a while, but we've always smoothed things over later. I really can't think of anyone that I've ever been close to that wasn't mad or angry, but just cold like that.
I have a hunch that anyone who does not admire you well you know....
Really? That's funny! I think if you told any of my buddies that I have some deep-seated need to be admired they would totally bust out laughing
100% of what we know about each other is what is on these forums, which is probably 1% of who we really are
Wow, what a difference a few days make! I received the D papers (37 pages, ugh) a couple of days ago. I reviewed them last night and it looks like everything is pretty well in order although I need to make a more detailed pass through them. The financial requests all look reasonable. The petition was filed in August, so we're already past the 60 day waiting period (here in TX). All that's left now is to agree to the details, sign it and go to court to finalize it. Looks like I'll be D'd in a matter of weeks.
I thought it would be an emotional experience to receive the D papers and see it all in black and white, but surprisingly it wasn't at all. It's felt like this whole D thing has been hanging over my head like Damocles' sword and I was getting pretty tired of just not knowing what was going on. So it's actually a relief to have the papers and see the end of the tunnel. Time to close this chapter of my life and open a new one!
I'll keep posting here until the D is complete, then will move over to the "Surviving the Big D" forum.
It's been a heck of a journey, thanks to all of you for being there and offering support, comments and direction. It was a big help, especially just after BD when I was really lost, scared and confused!
I would say sorry to hear of this development, but it seems like you're taking it in stride. Glad to hear everything in the settlement seems reasonable, I wish I could say the same about what W sent over to me. Best of luck to you in your next chapter!
You are so strong to be taking this so well. You really have a good grasp of what DB'ing is all about and I guess it prepared you for the worst. Glad to hear you find it a relief.
Maybe this is what she needs to help herself get out of the fog and realize she left a spouse only a fool would. As you say to others, you never know she might come back down the road.
Your a class act and an inspiration to others, especially your children. Keep up the great work!
Hi AS it sounds like you are dealing with this with class and dignity exactly what I would have expected of you. Hopefully you will be around 'newcomers' for a while yet I know from my personal experiences that a reply from you is something I look for first (always seems to give me clarity and focus) and I also take so much from your comments to others, they all matter to us still in dark places, hopefully you know how much that helps and matters, really matters!!!
You should be a poster boy for the DB forums I am imagining Russell Crowe in gladiators!! That feels so wrong writing that haha!!
Cheers H
First an update- W had me served yesterday, she had to do it because I told her I wouldn't sign a waiver (I would have surrendered all rights to being notified of the court hearings and such, didn't feel secure doing that as I really don't know if I can trust W in the state she's in). I was about to go to the gym and was putting on my shoes, so S11 answered the door. When I walked up the server said "here are your divorce papers". And of course S11 heard, ugh. He laid on the floor in the living room and was crying. I asked him how it made him feel, told him I was sorry he felt that way. I didn't try to tell him everything would be fine or anything like that, just let him process the feelings. He seemed a lot better about 10 minutes later. I found out later from D17 that he thought that the D was final, that's why it upset him so much. W and I talked about it and decided not to tell him otherwise because it will be final pretty soon anyway and we didn't want him to go through that again.
W came over last night and we reviewed the "final decree", we made some small revisions that we both agreed on. I sent my "response" back to her L today (required after being served). At this point all that's left is the final court date to record the D.
W still has the "temporary" wrap on her arm, she really hates the thing as it great limits mobility and it's very uncomfortable. It was supposed to have been removed by now, but when she went in for a visit they told her they wanted to leave it on 2 more weeks! She was not at all happy about that!
I would say sorry to hear of this development, but it seems like you're taking it in stride. Glad to hear everything in the settlement seems reasonable, I wish I could say the same about what W sent over to me. Best of luck to you in your next chapter!
Thank you! So sorry to hear it's not going as well with your W, it sure makes things easier when both parties are in agreement. Takes a lot of the stress out of an otherwise touchy situation. When I mentioned before that I felt like the D was hanging over me, a lot of that was because I just didn't know what W was going to go for in the D. In the end she was fair about it, so that was a relief.
You are so strong to be taking this so well. You really have a good grasp of what DB'ing is all about and I guess it prepared you for the worst. Glad to hear you find it a relief.
Maybe this is what she needs to help herself get out of the fog and realize she left a spouse only a fool would. As you say to others, you never know she might come back down the road.
Your a class act and an inspiration to others, especially your children. Keep up the great work!
Thanks M! You know, I have trouble taking my own advice on this. You are quite right that I do often tell people that D isn't always the end of things and there's no telling what the future holds. But for some reason I can't accept that in my own sitch, it just seems so utterly impossible that W will ever change. But if there's one thing these forums demonstrate, it's that WAS's do indeed change. Unfortunately it's on an unpredictable timeline that can stretch out for years. But hey, it's already been almost 2 years, what's another year or two? I'm not necessarily standing anymore, but I'm not in a hurry to run out and get married again either, so who knows.
Hi AS it sounds like you are dealing with this with class and dignity exactly what I would have expected of you. Hopefully you will be around 'newcomers' for a while yet I know from my personal experiences that a reply from you is something I look for first (always seems to give me clarity and focus) and I also take so much from your comments to others, they all matter to us still in dark places, hopefully you know how much that helps and matters, really matters!!!
You should be a poster boy for the DB forums I am imagining Russell Crowe in gladiators!! That feels so wrong writing that haha!!
Cheers H
Hey H, thanks, I love the Crowe reference, LOL! I've seen that movie many times and really like it
I will definitely keep posting to others here in Newcomers, I just meant that I'll move my story to the other forum since my sitch is entering a different phase.
Sorry to hear about the D papers, AS.
How goes AS? Anything new on your sitch? I am finding my sitch is quickly going toward D.
Anyway wanted to let you know I was thinking about what your going through.
Groov
Wonka, thank you!
Groov, thanks for checking in! Well I thought the D would be done by now, I think I mentioned previously that we met, went through the Decree and marked it up together and agreed we would both sign when it was revised. That was about two weeks ago and I was supposed to get the revised paperwork early this week to sign.
Two days ago W sent an email and decided she wanted to add 35k "credit card debt" to it that she thinks I owe her. I called her and asked what she was referring to. It's a long story, but she had accrued over 80k in credit card debt without my knowledge. She received an inheritance and paid the debt off with most of it, then gave me the remainder to hold to pay the income taxes. She did this because she was afraid that if she kept it she would spend it and there would be nothing to pay the taxes with. That amount was around 70k, so now she thinks I owe half of it to her. I sent her an itemized list of what the 70k was spent on- taxes, tuition for D19, a car for D16, etc. The purchases were all things we had agreed to go 50-50 on (except the taxes which were 100% on her due to the inheritance), so after deducting her share of everything I owe her 8k plus she is due another 10k out of an UGMA fund (another long story regarding how we agreed to split college costs). I sent her detailed calc's on all of this, but she refuses to even discuss it. I tried calling her twice yesterday to review it with her, then she sent a text that basically said "we can't agree so we need to let the professionals deal with it". IE, she thinks we need to let the lawyers fight it out. I texted back and told her that all I am asking is that if she doesn't agree with my calc's, then explain to me why. I told her I'm willing to discuss it. She replied back that she wanted to talk to her L first.
So that's where things are, STUCK AGAIN! UGH! You know, I have a friend that kept telling me "don't believe it's done until you have the signed papers in your hand" but I kept telling her "oh no, we're really getting along great and are having no problems with the D!" Well she was right!
Other than that speed bump everything is good
Sorry to hear you're heading towards D too
I think in my case it's the best thing for both W and me, hopefully it'll work out that way for you too.
Hey all, another quick update- I ended up telling W I would agree to giving her more $$, I told her that I don't think it's "fair" but that when she says that she thinks it is I believe she's telling the truth, so I'd agree to it even though I have no idea how she came up with the numbers (her descriptions were a garbled mess of confusion). She sent the revisions to her L to have the paperwork revised. Was supposed to get it last Friday but W texted that she didn't get it from her L, so we're waiting on papers again.
Not much else to report between W and me. We hardly ever see each other except when exchanging kids. We chat a bit when we do and we get along fine, but it's very much a "friendly neighbor" kind of interaction. I get the impression she's trying to avoid me as much as possible, hard to explain but she contacts D17 about S11 when she should be contacting me instead, and there are other things like she showed up late to S11's bball awards and sat by herself even though she knew I was already there. It doesn't affect my PMA at all, I just think it's peculiar behavior.
The kids are on spring break this week. D19 came in Friday and we caught up on recorded shows (Face Off, yay!) and then went to see a movie Saturday, then went out to dinner Saturday night and watched another movie at home. S11 did not want to go to W's last night, said he wanted to stay at my house all week. I understand why, all his friends are in my neighborhood and W isn't taking any time off work this week so he would be stuck over there bored to death. I called W and told her what he had said, and suggested to her that he could come to my house during the day to hang out with his friends and then she could pick him up on her way home from work. She thought about it and decided that that would work. I asked her if it was OK if I had them Thursday night and Friday so I could take them to do something and she said it was fine, so I made reservations to take them indoor skydiving Thursday night. I've never been, but it sounds like fun
I'm going to take Friday off and go see a movie with them and whatever else we decide to do.
I FINALLY repainted my master bedroom!! NO MORE PURPLE! If you don't remember the story, my W started painting it purple while I was at work one day, and I never have liked the THREE different colors of purple she used. So now it's a nice neutral gray with the tray ceiling and accent wall in a darker shade of gray. Also replaced the miniblinds with wide slat blinds and ordered a really cool ceiling fan.
I'll update again when the D is over!
AS,
I am sorry about all this. My W is wanting her D done too... I have not lifted a finger. I could very well be D'd in 3 months. Still hoping for a miracle.
I really respect you and the advice and thought put into your posts to us here. It doesn't seem fair. I feel you have such a good grasp on things. Anyway. Wish I could help here but, I am mostly asking for help.
Groov
AS,
Good for you on painting your room! I am glad your son gets to hang out in the neighborhood with friends over spring break.i think that is so important!
I am on the similar timeline as you.( BD, S) in my case D was filed in oct. no movement. The petition is being sent to dismiss in May. not holding my breath. H is waiting on work changes( a move out of town) to come thru. I know this is mind-reading. However, h has made no indications whatsoever about R. We are still friendly. I told h I choose to be friendly.
AS, you always give such thoughtful advice. I look for your responses. You are a really great dad. I know you enjoy this time with your kids.
I agree with Groov, your posts seem so well thought out. Do you feel like you've always had a good gasp of DB'ing since BD? Did you make any DB'ing mistakes early in like the rest of us do?
Anyhow, really respect you for hanging in there. You certainly have gone the distance and seem to be staying hopeful.
Couldn't agree more with all the above posts!!
My respect for you, AS, is immense beyond words!!
Way to go with the BR, AS!!
Hey folks, thanks for checking in
First a quick update- this may be my last post as a married person, LOL! W finally forwarded the revised decree to me on Friday, I reviewed it and sent back a couple of typos I found, the L revised it again and W printed it out and we both signed it Friday evening. We're due in court tomorrow morning at 8:45. I think the paperwork is all in order, so it should breeze through court. So this time tomorrow I'll probably be D'd. It's not over yet though, once the D is final then we've got to go about splitting up assets, signing over titles and such. And I've got to take out a loan to pay W back for half the house value. My emotions are quite neutral at this point, I'm dealing with it like I would a business transaction. It really feels like more of a relief than anything.
I took the kids for indoor skydiving on Thursday, we had so much fun! My only complaint was it was over too fast for the money spent, but it was definitely a unique experience! Then I took Friday off and we went to see a movie and then out for lunch. My special order ceiling fan came in as well, so I put that in my MBR and it looks amazing! Saturday I took D19 and her BFF to Dark Hour (haunted house in Plano), they had a St. Pattie's Day theme that was AWESOME! I was really in awe of the place, it looked SOOOOO cool, and they had some great theme-specific features like a room with animatronic tooth fairies extracting teeth from victims, LOL! All in all it was an awesome weekend
I am sorry about all this. My W is wanting her D done too... I have not lifted a finger. I could very well be D'd in 3 months. Still hoping for a miracle.
Groov, thank you, sorry to hear you're going through the same. I've got to say though, we talk a lot here about how sometimes D is required for the WAS to feel the pressure has been lifted, but my experience is that D is lifting the pressure from ME. I like to be in control of my life and I feel like ever since BD I've just been along for the ride, at the whim of my W. I mean I did GAL and I did work on myself, but regarding the M I was just a passenger. I feel like after tomorrow I will be back in control of my own destiny whatever that may be, so even though I will be assuming a lot of debt at least it's MY debt that I control. I've mentioned before that it always felt like the D was constantly looming over my head, so was the financial settlement because it was a big question mark. To finally have a hard number gives me a goal I can work towards. Plus the D will prevent my W from ever taking advantage of me again regarding her runaway credit card debt. Yeah, it's a big relief!
I am on the similar timeline as you.( BD, S) in my case D was filed in oct. no movement.
My W filed August of last year and I really think if I hadn't pushed to get it moving it would still be in limbo. You just never know what they're thinking, but I think that while they talk about D on some level they really don't want it. They're afraid to love us again because they think they'll get hurt again if they do, but they're also afraid to completely let us go.
AS, you always give such thoughtful advice. I look for your responses. You are a really great dad. I know you enjoy this time with your kids.
You are so sweet, thank you
I agree with Groov, your posts seem so well thought out. Do you feel like you've always had a good gasp of DB'ing since BD? Did you make any DB'ing mistakes early in like the rest of us do?
Thank you! Oh my yes, I certainly made my share of mistakes. Sometimes I had to stop myself and ask "if someone else were saying/ doing this, what would I tell them?" LOL! It's funny how it can be hard to apply DB principals to our own sitches when they seem so obvious in someone else's, so I had to learn to step outside of my sitch and try to see it from the viewpoint of an impartial bystander.
Couldn't agree more with all the above posts!!
My respect for you, AS, is immense beyond words!!
Thank you Nit, that's really nice of you!
Way to go with the BR, AS!!
Thank you, it's amazing what a color change can do, I just find it so much more pleasing to even just walk through the bedroom to the closet or bathroom now, it just makes me go "aaaaaaah"
I will post an update after court tomorrow!
I hear you on the debt thing, I think it is the boogy man in the closet for a lot of us. The WAS usually does not think that far and all of the implications involved with it. With kids in college and more to come in can be overwhelming. But don't forget the advice you gave me live for the day and not focus too much on the future. I know I tell my girls I love them a lot more and when I am doing something with them they will tell me they love me out of no where and that feels very good....I don't take those things for granted.
Thanks 7720! The only concern I had on the debt was that W may have even more hidden that I don't know about, but now that the D is done I am totally insulated against any hidden debt she may have, and any future debt she accumulates.
And on that note, the D is done. It is honestly a bit surprising that a 21 year marriage can be ended so quickly, seems like it took forever for us to get married, hahaha! We were the first ones on the court docket so we were in and out in less than an hour. I've got to say that W's lawyer made the whole process run much smoother, she knew exactly what to present to the judge and how to present it. I think we would have been a little lost otherwise, so I can see the value in having a L even if both parties agree on everything.
Right now I'm not really feeling anything over the M ending, kind of ambivalent really. Not sure if that's because I'm in shock at it being over so fast or (more likely) because this is really just a formality on a M that was already over.
I'm going to open a new thread on Surviving the Big D and will post there from now on, but I will continue to read and post to other people's threads here too
AS,
Sorry to see that your D is final.
I have appreciated your responses to my posts, they have been extremely welcomed and more importantly have helped me out. I can't thank you enough.
I hope you will continue to check in on me now and again. Things are getting better with me and sitch I believe but it is a long journey and could you use your wisdom and thoughts still I'm sure. That sounds really needy doesn't it? Sorry.
I most certainly will follow your posts in your new thread to keep up with you.
Thank you again and God Bless you!