Hello all. I have been reading here for quite some time, learned that a lot of peoples stories mirror my own. Basic background...wife told me in May of this year the ILYBNILWY stuff, need space, yada, yada, moved out in June. I remained in the home with my stepson who refused to go with her. We also have an 8 yr old S that we share time with, week with her, week with me. She was having an affair, (imagine that) and started doing a partying with her sister she moved in with her. None while she had our son but pass out drunk on weeks she didn't have him. So I filed for custody of my son as I did not trust her enough to think that may not occur while he was there. Today I dropped that custody case as I feel it creates major tension with my immediate family. We have been talking and spending more time together. She says she only wants me, now realizes that I am what she wants, and wants us to go slow. Heard that about half a dozen times since May so don't put much faith in it as she seems to be in that pattern. Refuses to cut off ties with the ON because our kids play together and she says she can be friends and that is all for the kids sake. Also still contacts other men she has dated since she left and says they are only friends. Ok, heard all of these stories about we are just friends before, gut instinct tells me to run, however her big issue during our marriage was I wasn't attentive enough, didn't make her feel like number one priority, and wasn't there when she needed me. So I have been paying attention but have told her I just don't think we can move forward as a couple with these friend relationships still existing. I have took the time to attempt to stand in her shoes and see what she its talking about, but I find myself thinking this is just a way for her to have the best of both worlds. She even said that is why she tried to hide the affair originally. I told her now that the custody case was dropped she had no reason to pretend to be nice or want a relationship.
I suppose a paragraph would be nice huh? Some more background, met in 2000, married in 02, she had a son whom I have raised like my own that is now 17 and basically does not want a relationship with her. We had a son that is now 8 and thinks the works of his mom and dad. We worked odd hours early on so we didn't require a baby sitter and so we could get her thru college. She started work full time in 09, went crazy with our finances after she stated earning more, I didn't discover we owed what felt like everybody until Feb 2012 when I attempted to take out a loan and got quite a surprise. Her grandmother passed summer of last year, very traumatic trip back home for her as she has some deep rooted issues that were buried instead of addressed from there. I did not attend the trip to her hometown as we had a wake locally and did not realize she would have basically a nervous breakdown there. I can never forgive myself for that one, I just never saw it coming as she is a very strong individual. She attempted suicide later that year, had to keep my sons from seeing that as it was in our home. She told me she was trying to get my attention that she wanted more affection from me. I said that was not the best way at attempting that. Started her affair January of this year, got put on Paxil and Xanex March of this year.
Now in November she shows no intention of moving home, says she wants to be married but in two separate households, lost her job but does not ask me for money. Wants to be friends with the AP. I have tried NC, but she still calls or texts everyday with something concerning our boys. We are both doing IC for approx 3 months. We have taken vacations together and dated some. I tell her if she is not committed please do not do this to or sons as it will crush them again.
I have been giving her space, truly listening to her, thinking about what her needs are that I wasn't meeting and correcting them for this or the next relationship, have did several 180's that she has noticed, read divorce remedy, 5LL's to see where I went wrong. I do realize I an to blame for half of marital issues, but her affair was a decision.
My question is where do you draw the line and say enough is enough. You don't want to break ties with AP completly because kids play together and you don't wasn't to disrupt him but I can't feet her to understand the pain and lack of trust it creates for me. Not sure if she doesn't or if she does then maybe she does not care. Wants us to spend holidays together with all if her family. Makes absolutely no rationale to me. At the end of my town here and need some help.
Sorry for the book I wrote but had to give some catchup info.
Any replies would be most appreciative.
Thanks to those who have posted on this forum as I have read lots here.
I am glad you found us. There are several issues you are dealing with, including mental health problems. If you call me I can suggest a DB coach that would be superb in helping you figure out the best path you should be taking, not only for yourself, but your kids and wife as well. Take good care.
Welcome to the board.
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Francis Bacon
Thanks for the replies. Judging by my spelling mistakes in my last paragraph I see it isn't good to try and post when you are tired...lol
One day at a time
wife told me in May of this year the ILYBNILWY stuff, need space, yada, yada, moved out in June.
Hello and welcome to the forums! Your sitch I'm sure feels like FOREVER to you, but it's actually still fairly new. You're 5 months since S. But please understand, it can take a WAS a year or more after S before they start emerging from the fog. I get a sense from your post that you just want to call things done and move on because you're not seeing any progress, but IMO it's too soon for that. You have to show the WAS many, many months of consistent, changed behavior before they'll start to believe that you really have changed and that it's not just a trick to lure them back. The WAS's greatest fear in reconciling is that things will revert back to the way they were. They don't want THAT marriage, and neither should you. Your goal is a NEW marriage, a better marriage.
She says she only wants me, now realizes that I am what she wants, and wants us to go slow. Heard that about half a dozen times since May so don't put much faith in it as she seems to be in that pattern.
If she is really committed to the M, then she will be willing to participate in MC. And GOOD counseling is a critical part of getting things back on track. If she doesn't want MC, then she's a WAS and what she's telling you is just lip service.
My question is where do you draw the line and say enough is enough. You don't want to break ties with AP completly because kids play together
Is AP "affair partner"? If so then she MUST break it off with him before you can work on the M. Again, if she's not willing to break it off then she's not committed to the M and you've got to go into DB'ing mode unless and until she is ready.
Yes you are correct it feels like forever but I know months don't compare to the rest of my life if this turns around.
We started out in MC, but all we did was argue and point blame so I suggested we do IC for a while so we wouldn't be in an environment where we argued and nothing nothing was coming out concerning our individual issues. We have both been going independently approx 3 months. For the time she says she feels ok talking with the counselor about her as well as our problems because there is no history between her and the counselor. My wife will then tell me about some of the things they discuss. My goal for us is to be able to attend MC again once she feels she is ready. She knows that there are some very emotional issues from her past prior to me that she has buried for years, but unfortunately it affected our marriage. I am proud of her for opening up to someone about them because we both understand until that wedge is removed we can't have a better marriage. I have urged her to get help for years but she had not went, so this is a positive for her as a person, and hopefully I will reap the benefits as well. I also go weekly but sometimes I feel I gain more by reading about others who have walked the walk before me. One thing that has caused us a road block is communication, she does not like to discuss problems or concerns due to it being confrontation so she tucks them away and moves on like they do not exist. Prior to this year I would let that drive me nuts and try to get her to talk, makes her uncomfortable and I don't get results. I have learned it us better to let her open up, listen, and then reply. I have only asked that at the point she starts feeling uncomfortable to tell me she is and I will end the conversation then.
Yes AP is her affair partner. To her she says she can remain platonic because his kid and our kid play together and she doesn't want the kids relationship to be affected. I can sort of understand that as I do not want our son to suffer any more damage than necessary, but I feel that is leaving the door open for more problems later. I explain that it is very difficult for me to move forward with our relationship and regain trust when he is still in any sort of contact with her.
Thanks for the forum you have here. It had helped me to understand that I wasn't the only one going thru this.
Thanks
Confused,
Welcome to the boards. People here are great. Sorry you find yourself in this position. I think that with depressed spouses, detaching and GALing are especially important.
Good luck.
s4tk
Confused. Sorry you find yourself here. You made a wise choice in posting. I began posting a couple of weeks ago. For me just having a place to get it all out of my head did wonders for my PMA. You will also get wonderful advice. Implement the DB recommendations and go easy on yourself as it is a long process.
My question is where do you draw the line and say enough is enough. You don't want to break ties with AP completly because kids play together and you don't wasn't to disrupt him but I can't feet her to understand the pain and lack of trust it creates for me. Not sure if she doesn't or if she does then maybe she does not care. Wants us to spend holidays together with all if her family. Makes absolutely no rationale to me. At the end of my town here and need some help.
You need to decide what your personal boundaries are in this MR. If a third party in the M is a deal breaker, then you need to decide what you will do in response if it continues. Boundaries are to
protect you and what you value the most. Boundaries are not used in order to control the other person.
She cannot remain friends with a man she has had an A with, nor can she have any ties/connects with him (such as her kids playing with his). She has already shown how willing she is to put her A above her own child, and this malarkey she's telling you is nothing but WAW garbage. Of course it's not logical or rational, b/c she's not thinking logical. One of the first lessons you need to learn is that you cannot "deal" with her by trying to make her see things rationally. It is impossible. The WAW is all about "feelings". Her emotions will lead her and dictate what she does. That is one reason your talks do no good on her.
I maintain that most women will not have sexual love for two men at the same time. She may be fine remaining best of friends with her H, but doesn't want to end the A. I can't explain it all, (especially in one post), but it may help if you google PEA and see how all this hits her brain to feel the same as when she fell in love. It's very addictive to her and there is even withdrawal if it ends. Read about it to inform yourself with what you are dealing with here.
She has to end the A in order for the MR to succeed. Don't throw ultimatums at her, in hopes she'll do what you want b/c it doesn't work on a WAW. In fact, it will backfire. If you have expressed to her what you cannot live with, or live without, and what you would need to do if she continues contacting OM, you will need to stand behind what you've said. So, be careful what you say when you're angry.
She attempted suicide later that year, had to keep my sons from seeing that as it was in our home. She told me she was trying to get my attention that she wanted more affection from me.
She would do that to her sons.....to get more affection???? If that is true, then she sounds unstable to care for a 8 yr old boy. I would be more concerned over her suicide attempts than the A (regarding child custody), but that is your business and private decision. I cannot imagine the strain it must place on you to worry about this.
Sometimes we may not know what to tell you to do in your stitch, but we usually can spot what doesn't work....b/c it's been tried too many times by thousands of LBH'S. Just don't feel you are getting beat up. There's a lot of support here and I hope you'll post every day possible, even a short one would keep us updated.
Thanks team, when I get off moderation I will post more.
Thanks confused. We want to understand you better before approving you.
Hello again. I will say this has to be the craziest nerve racking thing I have ever dealt with. It amazes me that so many couples find their selves in this same scenario. I just don't understand it, not sure if it is just how society is now or if people just don't want to acknowledge we aren't perfect and that another person cannot make you happy, only you can and for me I want to share that happiness with my spouse and kids. I have read here a lot, paid attention to the things I do around my spouse and the reactions I get, and reflected on our past and what part I played in getting to where we are currently at. I can't find consistency in how she reacts to me, I can do something today and get a positive result, do the exact same thing two days from now and get negative results. For me that is hard to understand. I see patterns in her behavior towards me, but it seems that no matter what I try the responses keep changing.
For example, since May when I first found out about everything I see this pattern every few weeks. She gets close, very kind and loving, wants to spend time together, sends thoughtful texts, calls a lot, we get together and I show her the main thing she said I never did...undivided attention. I turn off my mobile, let her talk, validate what she is saying without offering solutions, just listen. About two weeks of this and she is back to very distant and little conversation. Ok, first couple of times it almost drove me bonkers, I would ask her what happened there, are you talking to someone else again as that did happen first two times in this pattern. I changed it up and when this pattern happened again I didn't ask anything and stopped making contact. Of course now she gets mad, says I am not there for her, I am being the same as always. Then the pattern repeats, last time was just about 3 weeks ago. She took my youngest son to the beach, wanted me to come down. I did, we had a great time. She had put her wedding ring back on, told me she knows I am the best man for her, wants us to just date, knows she loves me but has her own issues she needs to address before we can have a healthy relationship. I told her I was proud of her for addressing her own issues and that I appreciate her feeling safe enough to open up to me some. Well here we are at today, noticed the swing from her again last weekend. Back to distant, very little communication, but still says she has the same desires as before. Wants us to do Thanksgiving dinner with her family, I tried to bow out but my father in law basically said you are my family, either you come or I will drag you here myself...lol. I know this pains him and he thinks the world of me and I feel same towards him. My wife also wants us to go black Friday shopping. This time instead of being distant from her, or questioning her too much I decided to try something different. Well it is still questions but different ones. I tell her I understand that you are feeling confused, me too, I am here, I am not out to hurt you. I respect your wishes and how can I help you deal with this time in your life. I can't say I fully understand what is going on because you tell me you have to deal with it on your own and won't tell me what is bugging you other than she says it is me stuff meaning her. Ok, I say we never had open communication before so I will be open from here on out. I tell her I want you to understand what goes thru my mind at these times, when you don't fill me in on what is happening with your emotions I can't help meet any I am neglecting. You give me way too much credit for being able to recognize then from afar. I know something is wrong, just not exactly what. I am not sure it is me, if you are stressed because you have lost your job and the holidays and shopping season are upon us, if it is your family, or maybe something totally different. Whatever it may be I am here for you when you want to discuss it. But please understand we have been in this same situation several times prior to this and each time you have backed off it has been because there was another man paying you some attention. That is where my mind tends to ever to when you flip flop on me. She assures me there is no one else, just wants me, but she needs to fix her own issues, not with us but from her past. She just tells me to give her time to get her life back on track and not pressure her. Ok, I believe you, I won't pressure you, I will continue being dad to the boys.
One side of my brain says wow you are a fool for thinking she is being honest with you. The other side says no, she is being honest this time, but she is scared and confused and when she starts feeling vulnerable and close to you again she backs off. Watch her and respond accordingly.
Any thoughts from those out there in this chaos?
Thanks team, when I get off moderation I will post more.
Another words to get off of moderation you must post more.
Confused, keep posting! the more you post the quicker you will get off moderation. You have had 3 of the best vets here comment to you. Cadet, Another Stander and Sandi can really help you through this. If you need further comment by them, just ask them they WILL help you. There are other vets here also who I'm sure will come by and provide excellent thoughts.
Welcome confused. I'm sorry you find yourself here, but keep posting.
Heard that about half a dozen times since May so don't put much faith in it as she seems to be in that pattern. Refuses to cut off ties with the ON because our kids play together and she says she can be friends and that is all for the kids sake. Also still contacts other men she has dated since she left and says they are only friends.
The kids playing together is an excuse. She doesn't cut contact because she doesn't want to. If you moved to a different school district, do you think it would be dramatic that he'd have to make new friends? It's a change, but it's not the end all.
If she was serious, she'd sever it.
So I have been paying attention but have told her I just don't think we can move forward as a couple with these friend relationships still existing.
That sounds like a pretty good boundary. Now hold her to it.
I told her now that the custody case was dropped she had no reason to pretend to be nice or want a relationship.
Couple of things bother me here. One, it sounds like you are trying to use the dropping of the case to control her. And two, it really does sound like there's some instability and valid reasons to be concerned about your W as a parent in her current state. Don't sacrifice your child's safety in an effort to be nice.
I can never forgive myself for that one, I just never saw it coming as she is a very strong individual.
Those are pretty strong words. We all make mistakes, and we all need to learn to forgive ourselves.
She attempted suicide later that year, had to keep my sons from seeing that as it was in our home. She told me she was trying to get my attention that she wanted more affection from me.
See above....that's pretty concerning to me.
I have tried NC, but she still calls or texts everyday with something concerning our boys.
You can't go completely no contact when you have kids...but you can limit discussions to the children.
I tell her if she is not committed please do not do this to or sons as it will crush them again.
There's a big difference between them wanting to keep the plates spinning and really wanting to reconcile. So far, everything you've said indicates she wants to keep the plates spinning. If that's not enough for you, you need to hold to your boundary.
I do realize I an to blame for half of marital issues, but her affair was a decision.
Careful. You're behavior during your M was a decision too wasn't it?
My question is where do you draw the line and say enough is enough. You don't want to break ties with AP completly because kids play together and you don't wasn't to disrupt him but I can't feet her to understand the pain and lack of trust it creates for me.
Ultimately, this is your decision....where you draw the line is where you decide. What you're willing to live with is completely up to you.
It really does sound like you have a lot of things to be concerned about, but you can't really "fix her." She's got her own path to walk. What you can do is give her space and time and focus on your stuff. So what are the things you want to work on? What don't you like about your role in the M? Who do you want to be?
Thanks for everyones input. It still amazes me how similar all the stories are. The words, actions, everything..for humans to be do different they sure are the same. For me it makes my brain think a lot more than I ever intended. I listen, I watch, I make decisions based on the prior. Some are right, some are wrong, I just learn from them. I know I will always love this woman and always be there for my children. Time will tell, hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving
I tell ya, maybe it is just me but one day my wife says she wants us to work on our marriage and she is very close and loving, the next day she is distant and says she has to get her life on track. I usually let her callshots, make the phone calls, etc. Not pushing her in any form, when I have recommended we get together she has excuses so I just let her make arrangements. But I tell ya this seesaw effect is crazy. Go forward, go in reverse, then forward again. Attempting to see some pattern to something I may be doing but at this point I can't put my finger on anything
But I tell ya this seesaw effect is crazy. Go forward, go in reverse, then forward again. Attempting to see some pattern to something I may be doing but at this point I can't put my finger on anything
It's not really unusual. There's a couple of things in play here...one is the push/pull effect. You become distant, she chases...you chase, she pulls away.
But you've also got OM in play, so you've got that push/pull affecting your interactions as well.
Why are you suggesting you get together?
What you can do is give her space and time and focus on your stuff. So what are the things you want to work on? What don't you like about your role in the M? Who do you want to be?
I think you skipped this
Reason I recommend us get together is because she said I never took the lead enough and planned things for us. She has put her wedding ring back on, says she is wanting our marriage to work, but realizes it will take us time to rebuild. Ok, I can agree with that, so that is why I suggest things for us to do as a couple.
As for me I am fairly content with who I am in life and in the marriage. Now don't get me wrong, I have always believed we all can look for ways to improve. I would like to be able to have more time with my sons, that is a big juggling act with work being the biggest sucker of my time. I do my 45 hours a week but the commute is a pain. There isn't much opportunity for employment regaining in the town I live in and don't want to move currently as I have a senior in high school that I don't want to disrupt with half of his senior year over. Not to mention since my wife moved out finances are rather strapped. My current focus is having my oldest lined up for college next fall.
I would love to be able to work on the issues between my wife and I, however she doesn't give me much input when I ask how can I be a better spouse? She just says you are great, a great father...ok, but we didn't get to this point if all was great. She just says out is her issues that she has to resolve and please give her time. So I just tell her I am here if you need to talk, I am ready to listen, I would like to be involved as well, I hope you can give me some input. I know from the past her complaints with me were..I seemed to always be 5 minutes late, that was a simple fix, just leave earlier. She also said I didn't spend enough quality time with her, I had already cut back my hours at work prior to her leaving so now I work on making sure I devote all my to her when she does talk. I help in areas I wouldn't have before, not that I wasn't aware, it was for example, I see her folding laundry,I would have prior strolled on by so not to get yelled at for doing it wrong. Now I stop and help, even if it isn't the best folding job. She noticed as she said I can't stand the way you do it but I do know you are trying. She said I won't tell our redo what you did because I know that is me being controlling. I told her why do you think I only folded towels and socks...lol. The one other thing I can think of is she says I wasnt there when she needed me. I asked her for examples but she just says I don't remember, me either. Problem is now that she is living in her apartment and lost her job she is struggling to make ends meet. I am torn with this as I would like to help her but I am not financially able to. I took all of our debt on me when she left with the exception of her car payment, insurance for her car and her and my sons cell phones. I shoulder the mortgage, heath instant for me and the boys, car insurance for me and my oldest, their lunch money, gas, all credit card and loan debt. Oh she did take her student loans on her. So everything I make is currently going right back out. She doesn't want to move back in together and at the current point I am not ready yet as I am still rebuilding my trust, but how can I be there for her as this is what stays on her mind lots. I think to myself well you decided to leave, I assumed most of the financial responsibility, money to me isn't what marriages and love are built on. I don't say anything to her that I am thinking as I don't want to create stress nor judgments. And I also think that if she can't see that I am strappedwell as well then I am with someone who doesn't truly want me for me. I just don't know much to say in these situations. She has always been horrible with money, we never could discuss that prior without it turning into an argument. I like getting things myself but also believe in building a nest egg. That was a big issue prior for us, she had ran up a lot of debt in my name, I had no idea until I went to take out a loan to purchase my son a truck and wow what a surprise I got. Either way, we could have overcame that but she wasn't very willing to sacrifice on some extras. But water under the bridge now.
I do see some glimpses here and there of rationale, but then it is throw caution to the wind. She is so stressed, I am not sure how much to fix things versus just watching them crumble. I want to be a husband and father, the father part I can always handle. I just don't know on the other what is tough love and what isn't. I just know it is very hard to watch and be quiet. I want to step in but I don't want to be controlling about it, don't want to be the safety net even though in my mind a strong husband and father keeps his family intact and corrects all issues so his family doesn't worry.
So to catch you up, I spent Thanksgiving with her and my extended family. All went well, no issues other than the odd feeling of being together but not together. We took the kids to see the Christmas lights as we always have. Part of me feels by still doing things as a family she is getting the best of both worlds. When I pull back some she immediately asks why I am distant. I'm not, just giving you the space and slow pace you requested. One day she is wanting me to stay over, all hugs and kisses, next day she is stressed about finances and cold. I know the stress can take a toll on a person, and I can offer her help, but don't want us together just for that. She had run out of her Paxil over the weekend, had no money for her prescription, I did buy that because I know you just can't cold turkey those meds and quit. I would like for her to eventually be able to cope and not take them but one step at a time.
Thanks for everyones input and lending an ear. Sorry for the book but it did feel nice to type it out for others to read in a non hostile environment.
Take care